IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 19th, 2009

_GoblinRoy, do you know what happened to AstralKnight?  What was he banned from Digg and why has he not posted in the last 24 hours?Jul 19 00:00
schestowitz_Goblin already has something like thatJul 19 00:00
schestowitzOK, done. I already have an account. Can someone please try to leave a comment in BN (anywhere) by opening an account there? It is now required that one registers.Jul 19 00:02
schestowitz_Goblin: I don't even know who that person isJul 19 00:02
schestowitzI know the name... some fan of oursJul 19 00:02
schestowitzAn open alternative for Palm Pre iTunes users 19 00:05
_Goblindoesnt matter then....I came across him when he dugg a few of my articles....He was quite a regular poster on Twitter too.Jul 19 00:05
Diablo-D3schestowitz: so whats up?Jul 19 00:06
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schestowitzSecurity issues with sudo 19 00:06
schestowitzwallclimber: BN now requires logging in to comment. I gave up and adopted a Groklaw-like commenting policy. When there is a level of person thread with libel against me, I am left with no other choice.Jul 19 00:07
twittersanity checkJul 19 00:07
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seller_liarroy ,are you here?Jul 19 00:08
wallclimberI think that having to log in is a good choice.Jul 19 00:08
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schestowitzseller_liar: hey, what's up?Jul 19 00:09
schestowitzseller_liar: did you hear about ODF? :-DJul 19 00:09
seller_liarWe need create a section called "common troll tactics"Jul 19 00:09
seller_liarnoJul 19 00:09
seller_liarin wikiJul 19 00:09
schestowitzwallclimber: most discussion is in IRC anywayJul 19 00:09
schestowitzseller_liar: I can find a starting pointJul 19 00:09
schestowitzseller_liar: hold onJul 19 00:09
wallclimberA Guide to common Troll Identification (needs some illustrations, don't you think? : )Jul 19 00:10
seller_liarfor example ,explain what is "mod bombing" , "frontpage attack", various names and tohersJul 19 00:10
seller_liarYes ,but we have to find oneJul 19 00:10
schestowitzseller_liar: I'll start a page. HOld on.Jul 19 00:11
seller_liarok thanks !Jul 19 00:11
seller_liargreen geek for example give us a good explananation about a front attack to disrupt site ads and page rankingJul 19 00:12
tessierschestowitz: Does groklaw have similar problems? Do they require registration?Jul 19 00:13
tessierI think requiring registration and a working email address is a fine thing.Jul 19 00:13
tessierIt doesn't mean the trolls have one. It means you aren't making it so easy for them anymore.Jul 19 00:13
schestowitztessier: yes, PJ told me about rise in trollingJul 19 00:14
schestowitzseller_liar: hold onJul 19 00:14
schestowitzYou can help me a lot, I'll post a placeholderJul 19 00:14
tessierI also support deleting comments you don't agree with. It is your blog. MS already has plenty of forums in which to express their opinion and answer criticisms. No need for you to help them with it.Jul 19 00:14
schestowitztessier: better to avoid deletionJul 19 00:15
schestowitzBut if people's E-mail addy gets banned, they'll be careful when postingJul 19 00:15
schestowitzCreating new addies takes time, then registering tooJul 19 00:15
wallclimberJust curious, but how accurate do you (meaning anyone that wants to answer) think the "Security issues with sudo" blog post is?Jul 19 00:15
twitterHow do you register to BN?Jul 19 00:16
tessierschestowitz: Currently the machine only has a gig of RAM. I just upped it to two which should improve performance quite a bit. But it will require a reboot to take effect.Jul 19 00:16
tessierwallclimber: What blog post? url? I use sudo extensively.Jul 19 00:16
wallclimberRoy posted this a little earlier: 19 00:16
tessierI enabled the msyql query cache and it is working according to mysql but does not seem to be having much effect on performance.Jul 19 00:16
twitterThe trolls will probably have all their accounts registered by now.... it's their job to stay on top of these things.Jul 19 00:18
twitterand here I sit with other things to do.Jul 19 00:18
tessierwallclimber: That looks like an ubuntu specific thing. Not sudo in general.Jul 19 00:18
tessiertwitter: Even if they do they will get banned soon enough and have to start over.Jul 19 00:19
wallclimberYes, it does seem to be about Ubuntu, but towards the end the blogger seems to suggest that WindowsXP handles things more securely, and the very last line says this: "Linux security fundamentalists please read the above twice before posting"Jul 19 00:19
seller_liarcreating a section avout commn troll attack,helps people to detect common trollsJul 19 00:20
ThistleWebyou could employ moderation to comments, and move all troll comments by known MS trolls to a separate page linked to the article in questionJul 19 00:20
ThistleWebinstead of including them in the normal flow of comments, allowing them to derail itJul 19 00:20
ThistleWebwhich also allows you to retain them as evidenceJul 19 00:20
schestowitz 19 00:21
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ThistleWeba sorta dual column of comments, one for normal users, another for the known trollsJul 19 00:21
ThistleWebwhere the normal one is shown by defaultJul 19 00:21
ThistleWebthat'd take time and effort to moderate thoughJul 19 00:21
schestowitzThistleWeb: exactlyJul 19 00:22
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schestowitzI also don't have the softwareJul 19 00:23
schestowitzwallclimber: not sue about that post, so I posted here, not in daily news picksJul 19 00:23
wallclimberokay, that's what I was wondering about, it seemed a little trollish to me, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to really sayJul 19 00:24
schestowitz 19 00:24
ThistleWebI have a project that I'm still trying to conceptualise which will draw a lot of trolls and attacks like BN, my ideas for addressing it were things like having an IRC server, instead of freenode and only allow registered members to contribute to either the site or the IRC, where memberships need to be manually approved, and an IRC nick manually asigned if they want it.....matching their site nickJul 19 00:25
schestowitzCan anyone volunteer to turn this into something that suits the context (site as opposed to the Linux NG where I'm a regular)?Jul 19 00:25
ThistleWebthat way they can only use the site under one unified usernameJul 19 00:25
schestowitzI see..Jul 19 00:25
schestowitzWe could run IRC from the BN serverJul 19 00:25
schestowitzGPL softwareJul 19 00:25
schestowitzBut we use Freenode's serverJul 19 00:25
ThistleWebif they troll on either comments / forum / irc it;s all tied together as one personJul 19 00:26
ThistleWeband can be banned / warned etc from the entirety of the siteJul 19 00:26
ThistleWebwith freenode, anyone can get an account on freenode and jump inJul 19 00:26
ThistleWebwith your own irc server you can set it to members only can take part, non members can read onlyJul 19 00:27
ThistleWeband you manually approve or create accountsJul 19 00:27
schestowitzIRC is easier to policeJul 19 00:28
schestowitzBecause unlike comments you don't eliminate what people writeJul 19 00:28
schestowitzYou can eliminate trolls without deleting anythingJul 19 00:28
ThistleWebwith your own irc channel, you can ensure that EVERYONE who comes in, has been approved and an account created for them to use, they can't change nicks and return after being bannedJul 19 00:29
schestowitz 19 00:29
schestowitzThistleWeb: own IRC channel is noit simpleJul 19 00:29
ThistleWebirc server*Jul 19 00:29
schestowitzI was going to do it, but it's requiring Twisted  (for Python)Jul 19 00:30
schestowitztessier: I can't reach BNJul 19 00:30
ThistleWebno worries, like I said, I'm still trying to conceptualise the project I have in mind so there;s a lot of ideas which may not be all that practicalJul 19 00:31
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tessier__schestowitz: Something weird going on with the server. I'm looking into it. Back up ASAP. Might be related to the bump in memory I gave the site.Jul 19 00:34
tessier__brbJul 19 00:34
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schestowitztessier: thanksJul 19 00:34
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splosionBN is down?Jul 19 00:39
splosion 19 00:40
splosionbummerJul 19 00:40
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schestowitz97 former residences of the famous demolished in Beijing < >Jul 19 00:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I think Sunday 19th of July should be Gary Beeton day...Who's Gary Beeton?....a profile of the legend coming soon on Openbytes...Jul 19 00:44
schestowitzIrish Politician: Data Retention Is Good If You Have Nothing To Hide... But Don't Ask For My Data < ?Jul 19 00:46
schestowitzOvertis identifies security weaknesses in national children’s database 19 00:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "When Jack Schofield responds in the comments section, it's often *his* comments that get deleted by the Guardian moderator ..." http:// ...Jul 19 00:51
schestowitzThe Great Google Doodle Triforce Conspiracy 19 00:52
schestowitztacone: ilalian MEP calls for EU Parliament mafias probe 19 00:55
taconewhat's a MEP ?Jul 19 00:55
schestowitzPMJul 19 00:56
schestowitzparliment member sihJul 19 00:57
taconethat's interesting though. an european committee would be nice. less influentiable by the mafiaJul 19 00:57
taconeif someone stresses an EU intervent it means he doesn't trust the Italian governmentJul 19 00:58
taconeyou'll know that mafia is in real danger only they start shooting. until they don't start shooting again it means that they're doing just fine.Jul 19 00:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ACTA is still under siege for the civil violation that it is. 19 00:59
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schestowitztessier: how's it going?Jul 19 01:05
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tessierEverything is back up.Jul 19 01:05
tessierschestowitz: Sorry for all the downtime lately. It's been weird.Jul 19 01:05
tessierI just kernel panic'd the xen domain0 somehow.Jul 19 01:05
schestowitztessier: that's OKJul 19 01:05
tessierBeen using xen for years and never seen that happen before.Jul 19 01:05
schestowitzI'm grateful for your supportJul 19 01:05
*tessier is retracing steps to figure out what could have happenedJul 19 01:05
tessierYou are back up with double the RAM and 2 cpu's now (had just one before). I noticed with all the new traffic the site was starting to swap and slow down. Hopefully this will help.Jul 19 01:06
schestowitz:-)Jul 19 01:06
schestowitzShould we upgrade WordPress now?Jul 19 01:06
oiaohmtessier Do you have a spare server.   I have had a xen domain kernel panic due to defective ram.Jul 19 01:06
schestowitzIt would be better to do it while you are around just in caseJul 19 01:07
tessieroiaohm: Oddly enough, I ordered another server a couple of days ago. Should be here any day now.Jul 19 01:07
tessierThey will both be on a SAN so I can do domain migration.Jul 19 01:07
tessierAnd if the server goes down I could instantly restart the domains on the other server.Jul 19 01:08
tessierI am slowly building out my managed hosting business. So more hardware (lots more) is definitely needed to reach the level of service required..Jul 19 01:08
tessierWe have been mostly in beta stages the last couple months.Jul 19 01:08
schestowitzI'm gonna see if auto-upgrade works in WordPress. It's supposed to just workJul 19 01:09
tessierI am pretty sure I accidentally over-committed the RAM when I did the upgrade. But xen should not have allowed me to do that and given me an error instead of letting it crash.Jul 19 01:09
oiaohmover committed ram should also make oomkiller got to work as well.Jul 19 01:10
tessieroomkiller is not involved in xenJul 19 01:10
tessierThe hypervisor runs above the linux kernel and oomkillerJul 19 01:10
oiaohmOpps I am thinking KVMJul 19 01:11
tessierYeah, kvm works completely differently. I may migrate to it somehow but right now I am on xen and don't see enough advantage to kvmJul 19 01:12
tessierThe fact that redhat is moving to kvm has my attention thoughJul 19 01:12
oiaohmkvm + ksm there is an advantage.Jul 19 01:13
tessierThe whole goal of this xen-aoe architecture I have deployed is that I *don't* have to actually drive down here to the datacenter.Jul 19 01:13
tessieroiaohm: What is ksm and what is the advantage?Jul 19 01:13
oiaohmksm is a alteration to the Linux kernel memory managment so it can merge identical ram pages.Jul 19 01:14
tessierIdentical RAM pages? How often does that really happen?Jul 19 01:14
splosionschestowitz: wordpress upgrade? Just a software upgrade or is the site getting a make-over or something?Jul 19 01:14
oiaohmQuite a lot really.Jul 19 01:14
tessierInterestingJul 19 01:15
oiaohmThink running 2 kernels the same.Jul 19 01:15
oiaohmThat is duplication.Jul 19 01:15
oiaohmlibc again duplication.Jul 19 01:15
tessierThe load on the server seems to be much less now. I think that extra gig of RAM really helped. Not surprising. 2G is normally my standard starting point anyway.Jul 19 01:15
tessieroiaohm: But even just a 1 byte offset will mess everything up.Jul 19 01:15
tessierHow does it keep track of identical pages? Some sort of hash?Jul 19 01:16
tessierI guess it does the hash once and is then copy on write from there on?Jul 19 01:16
oiaohmYep.Jul 19 01:16
schestowitzOK, I start manual upgradeJul 19 01:16
tessierschestowitz: go for itJul 19 01:16
schestowitzsoftware upgradeJul 19 01:16
oiaohmCatch is Linux kernel does by page offsetting of programs.Jul 19 01:16
oiaohmSo static parts of binary will be in pages that can be merged.Jul 19 01:17
splosionsoftware upgrade? Aww poop that's not exciting for meJul 19 01:18
oiaohmThe other is what orcale is working on tmemJul 19 01:18
schestowitzI worry about one plugin (threaded comments)Jul 19 01:18
schestowitzoiaohm: does 2.7->2.8 really require disabling plugins like predecessors?Jul 19 01:18
oiaohmI have not had to do upgrades on wordpress yet schestowitz.Jul 19 01:19
oiaohmMy uses of it are internal.Jul 19 01:19
splosionwhat's up with the threading limit on the comments, anyway? I've seen wordpress blogs with threads 10 levels deepJul 19 01:19
tessiertmem?Jul 19 01:20
tessieroiaohm: Is the by page offsetting a security feature/Jul 19 01:20
tessier?Jul 19 01:20
tessierASLR etc?Jul 19 01:20
oiaohm  << There is tmem.Jul 19 01:21
oiaohmYes ASLR   Address randomisation happens by page.Jul 19 01:21
schestowitzI'll try with plguins in. Fingers crossed, I have backups anywayJul 19 01:22
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tessierIt's our good friend Amicus Brief! Hello Mr Brief!Jul 19 01:24
amicusNot AmicusJul 19 01:24
amicusBriefJul 19 01:24
oiaohmBasically virtualisation tech on Linux is improving tessier.Jul 19 01:24
tessieroiaohm: No doubt. I'm enjoying it. I've been deploying xen for people for the last 4 years.Jul 19 01:25
tessierWorks great. I look forward to more improvements. That is one reason why I have started my own business doing it. Not enough people can commit the resources to really doing it right.Jul 19 01:25
tessierI see people buying one box and putting a ton of RAM in it and then putting everything on it with vmware and then the box goes down and they lose 64G of vm's with it. Ouch. And no SAN behind it.Jul 19 01:26
schestowitztessier: stick around just in case. It's almost done.Jul 19 01:26
tessierBecause they can't afford it and the way I do it is too hard for them.Jul 19 01:26
tessierschestowitz: No problem.Jul 19 01:26
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splosionjesus. This Lefty guy is showing up all over the place. he's trolling every single blog on the internet, by the looks of itJul 19 01:30
oiaohmLinux is getting 3 major techs for spliting servers.  KVM XEN and CGROUPS.  Each have there advantages and disadvantages.Jul 19 01:30
Diablo-D3kvm, however, sucks dickJul 19 01:30
Diablo-D3xen is okay but badly needs a fork to keep the microfucks outJul 19 01:30
Diablo-D3and Ive never heard of cgroups, which not boding well for itJul 19 01:30
oiaohmClone of solarias zones is cgroups Diablo-D3Jul 19 01:31
tessierDiablo-D3: "sucks dick" is your professional opinion eh?Jul 19 01:31
Diablo-D3tessier: Ive been able to oops my kernel with itJul 19 01:31
schestowitzWHat kind of blogs are being trolled?Jul 19 01:31
tessierDiablo-D3: I just oopsed my kernel with xen 30 minutes ago which is why I am here in the datacenter. What's your point?Jul 19 01:32
Diablo-D3only reason I looked at it because fglrx doesnt like being on the xen dom0 kernelJul 19 01:32
twitter*** twitter ignores diablo, does not want to spread splosion of propaganda eitherJul 19 01:32
Diablo-D3twitter: dude, fuck offJul 19 01:32
Diablo-D3and get a real nickJul 19 01:32
tessierWhy on earth would you need fglrx with xen?Jul 19 01:32
Diablo-D3tessier: because its my workstationJul 19 01:32
schestowitztwitter: there is some linsxxxxxxx crowd hereJul 19 01:32
Diablo-D3tessier: I was developing cluster apps and needed a clusterJul 19 01:32
twitterwhy do you listen to oiaohm?Jul 19 01:32
oiaohmkvm and xen both are different design hyprvisors.Jul 19 01:32
Diablo-D3lets double the dickery hereJul 19 01:33
*tessier ignores Diablo-D3 tooJul 19 01:33
Diablo-D3*** diablo ignores twitter, because he hates peopleJul 19 01:33
twitterschestowitz, I know.  I've ignored most of themJul 19 01:33
oiaohmtwitter: I do keep up with tech.Jul 19 01:33
splosionschestowitz: well, yours, jason's site, canonical's cto, a bunch of personal blogs. I don't think it's anything new to you lot :P I'm just really coming across his antics for the first timeJul 19 01:33
Diablo-D3oiaohm: theres been a few projects to try to do bsd jails/solairs zonesJul 19 01:33
tessierWhy not just kick them?Jul 19 01:33
Diablo-D3schestowitz: btw, my blog was trolledJul 19 01:33
Diablo-D3schestowitz: does that count?Jul 19 01:33
twitterthat's for Roy to do.Jul 19 01:33
oiaohmDiablo-D3: jails are way different to zones.Jul 19 01:34
twitterthere seems to be an overload of them here right now.Jul 19 01:34
Diablo-D3oiaohm: serves much the same purpose howeverJul 19 01:34
schestowitzI knowJul 19 01:34
oiaohmNopJul 19 01:34
schestowitzLet me finish with the upgrade firstJul 19 01:34
oiaohmNot even close Diablo-D3Jul 19 01:34
Diablo-D3oiaohm: if you're vpsing with solaris zones, obviously noJul 19 01:34
oiaohmZones control cpu and resource access times.Jul 19 01:34
twittertake your time, I'm not in a hurry.Jul 19 01:34
oiaohmSomething is not a concern of a pure jail Diablo-D3Jul 19 01:35
schestowitzIt failed somewhatJul 19 01:36
schestowitzLet's try againJul 19 01:36
oiaohmBasically zones can be used for job control or creating a jail.Jul 19 01:36
schestowitztessier: I will need to resore the DB in a momentJul 19 01:37
oiaohmCurrent Linux cgroups are complete enough for job control.  Not complete enough to create a full blown jail Diablo-D3.Jul 19 01:37
Diablo-D3wait, does cgroups == openvz, linux-vserver, freevps, and friends?Jul 19 01:38
schestowitzI'm restoring files from backup, then we need to do the DBJul 19 01:38
oiaohmIts a merge of those 3 Diablo-D3.  Because only 1 framework for doing that task can enter main line Linux kernel.Jul 19 01:39
Diablo-D3got a url?Jul 19 01:39
Diablo-D3schestowitz: what happened, btw?Jul 19 01:39
oiaohm   That is a overview there is a cgroup for creating a virtual PID  and UID space.  Problem is device access and proc access.Jul 19 01:41
oiaohmAlso due to kvm being like a normal process.  cgroup controls can be used on it Diablo-D3.Jul 19 01:47
schestowitztessier: pingJul 19 01:50
twitterreading the pjprimer thing about CanopusJul 19 01:50
twitterI'm amazed that M$'s insanity goes back as far as the early 90s.  Biermann trying to get his fellow M$ employee fired for not being a big enough ass, unbelievable.Jul 19 01:51
twitterTake that as a lesson in M$ ethics.Jul 19 01:51
schestowitztessier: are you around?Jul 19 01:51
oiaohmMS bad ethics started with DOS and the deal with IBM twitterJul 19 01:53
oiaohmIt just progressively got worse.Jul 19 01:53
tessierschestowitz: YepJul 19 01:59
tessierHow's it going?Jul 19 01:59
schestowitzIn /~ I have a file "latest-wp.dump". This is the WordPress DB file  that we need restored. Jul 19 01:59
schestowitzNot yetJul 19 01:59
schestowitzI mean ~Jul 19 01:59
schestowitzhome dirJul 19 01:59
schestowitzIn a momentJul 19 01:59
tessierOk, just let me know when....Jul 19 01:59
schestowitzI'll need to do the upgrade only after deactivating plguinsJul 19 02:00
schestowitzNo shortcutsJul 19 02:00
tessierWill you be ready to do it in the next few minutes? If not I'll head back home which will take ~20 minutes.Jul 19 02:00
schestowitzJust a minute... :-)Jul 19 02:03
Diablo-D3oiaohm: just shove twitter on ignoreJul 19 02:03
schestowitzOK, let's do it nowJul 19 02:04
schestowitzIt's done putting the old files in place, just need to old DB restored from latest-wp.dumpJul 19 02:04
schestowitzto the wordpress DB (about 290MB)Jul 19 02:04
tessierokJul 19 02:05
tessierSo I am going to drop the db, recreate it, and load ~boycottn/latest-wp.dumpJul 19 02:05
tessierright?Jul 19 02:05
schestowitzOK, it's back to normalJul 19 02:06
schestowitzThis time I won't upgrade the lazy wayJul 19 02:06
schestowitzThanks a lotJul 19 02:06
schestowitzOh, wait.Jul 19 02:06
*tessier waitsJul 19 02:06
schestowitzDid you not resotre yet?Jul 19 02:06
tessierI have not done anything yetJul 19 02:06
schestowitzOhJul 19 02:06
tessierYou are ready for me to drop the old db and restore/Jul 19 02:06
tessier?Jul 19 02:06
schestowitzIt even works with the upgraded DBJul 19 02:06
oiaohmtwitter does have some valid ideas from time to time Diablo-D3.   Just we don't see eye to eye on particular things.  twitter is a little too much zellot.Jul 19 02:07
Diablo-D3oiaohm: hes a troll thoughJul 19 02:07
schestowitzBut it's safer to load the old one. Jul 19 02:07
Diablo-D3he puts people on ignore then publically announces itJul 19 02:07
schestowitz"<tessier> So I am going to drop the db, recreate it, and load ~boycottn/latest-wp.dump"Jul 19 02:07
schestowitzLet's do it nowJul 19 02:07
oiaohmI get called a troll too from time to time.   Diablo-D3Jul 19 02:08
Diablo-D3oiaohm: see aboveJul 19 02:08
Diablo-D3and he needs to find a new nickJul 19 02:08
oiaohmSee ZellotJul 19 02:08
oiaohmHe cannot tollerate anyone with a different idea to him.Jul 19 02:08
Diablo-D3thus he stays on ignore until he learns to behaveJul 19 02:08
tessierokJul 19 02:08
tessierLoading the old one now...Jul 19 02:09
oiaohmSooner or latter he will be setting ignore to everyone in channel.Jul 19 02:09
ThistleWebyeah twitter does seem like a one-trick-pony with an attitude problemJul 19 02:09
oiaohmDiablo-D3: basically don't ignore him does not deserve that.Jul 19 02:09
schestowitzSee what happens in some forumsJul 19 02:10
Diablo-D3my time is not infinite, neither is myJul 19 02:10
Diablo-D3[08:58:34] <Diablo-D3> got a url?Jul 19 02:10
Diablo-D3[08:58:42] <Diablo-D3> schestowitz: what happened, btw?Jul 19 02:10
Diablo-D3[09:00:48] <oiaohm> 19 02:10
ThistleWebnot very welcoming for new peeps to the channelJul 19 02:10
Diablo-D3ackJul 19 02:10
schestowitzSuspicions of people is always highJul 19 02:10
Diablo-D3goddmanit xchat!Jul 19 02:10
tessierloading....Jul 19 02:10
schestowitzDiablo-D3: please stay out for nowJul 19 02:10
Diablo-D3schestowitz: stay out of what?Jul 19 02:10
ThistleWebhe epotomises the stereotypes of zealots first hand and plays into the FUDJul 19 02:10
schestowitzDiablo-D3: nmJul 19 02:10
Diablo-D3its just xchat pasting random crapJul 19 02:10
oiaohmHaving people about his topics and not understanding what is going on will teach him lesson of tollerence.   Diablo-D3Jul 19 02:10
tessierdoneJul 19 02:11
tessierschestowitz: How does it look/Jul 19 02:11
Diablo-D3[09:29:23] <Diablo-D3> my time is not infinite, neither is my patienceJul 19 02:11
tessier?Jul 19 02:11
Diablo-D3oiaohm: mehJul 19 02:11
schestowitztessier: excellent!Jul 19 02:11
oiaohmMe have lot of patience.Jul 19 02:11
schestowitzWorks OK. Still in version 2.7. I am going to do the long upgrade routeJul 19 02:11
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schestowitzI hopefully won't bother you again. This ought to work right this timeJul 19 02:12
tessierok, I'm heading home then. Will be back online in 20-30 min.Jul 19 02:12
schestowitzTHanks, tessier Jul 19 02:12
schestowitztessier: I live next to a DC tooJul 19 02:12
oiaohmI am getting really sick of this marking compains recently everything has to leak.Jul 19 02:12
schestowitz200 meters from itJul 19 02:12
oiaohmNo nice normal announce ments.Jul 19 02:12
schestowitzoiaohm: MS killed another productJul 19 02:12
schestowitzAnd they will report massive drop in profitJul 19 02:12
oiaohmOk what one.Jul 19 02:12
oiaohmLink.Jul 19 02:13
schestowitz 19 02:13
schestowitzMicrosoft is VERY nervous right nowJul 19 02:13
schestowitzThat's no paranoid talkJul 19 02:13
schestowitzWatch Ballmer's talk the other dauJul 19 02:13
schestowitzHe went mental over the economy. There was a video he was ridiculed forJul 19 02:13
schestowitzBN is one of the good sites for showing the decline of division,s staff, and profitsJul 19 02:14
splosionjust finished reading lefty's lawsuit challenge. sheesh.Jul 19 02:14
oiaohmThey are not getting it.Jul 19 02:14
oiaohmThe economy is not the problem.Jul 19 02:14
oiaohmIf economy was a problem companies like redhat would be hurting.Jul 19 02:14
schestowitzsplosion: If he sues then I am suing... for Libel . Companies are simply people and the behaviour of their employees -- more so with senior employees -- is the behaviour of the company and its responsibility if the issues discussed relate to its field of operations.Jul 19 02:15
splosionred hat. top 500. nice workJul 19 02:15
schestowitzHe can't sue as it would ruin him, on top of already libeling meJul 19 02:15
schestowitzHe uses lawsuit threat as manipulation/intimidation tool.Jul 19 02:15
splosionschestowitz: good luck. although hope it doesn't come to that. I called the guy a cunt on my blog. tell him to sue me insteadJul 19 02:16
schestowitzsplosion: he curses everyoneJul 19 02:16
schestowitzI think it's an attudinal issueJul 19 02:16
splosionyes I sawJul 19 02:16
schestowitzI wish his luck with his health.. mental healthJul 19 02:16
ThistleWebmaybe he has comments-tourettesJul 19 02:16
schestowitzI never saw that dispue betwen him and FInkJul 19 02:17
schestowitzI wonder if he abused him too like he abuses everyoneJul 19 02:17
schestowitzThat would explain the person snitching to his employerJul 19 02:17
schestowitzDavid tried to blame it on me LOLJul 19 02:17
schestowitzI'm gonna try to disable plugins nowJul 19 02:18
schestowitzThen slide in the new files, then handle the plugins againJul 19 02:18
schestowitzThe issue I fear is that comments will flattedJul 19 02:18
schestowitzflattenJul 19 02:18
schestowitzOne of the plguins tends to do it when I test itJul 19 02:18
schestowitzI might try to leave it enabledJul 19 02:18
splosionThistleWeb: I swear all the time. I have an attitude problem, fo sho. If I think someone is a tosser, then I'll just bloody well say so. what I don't do, however, is threaten people with lawsuits over it. wtf man? something crawled up that guy's arse and died a long, long time agoJul 19 02:19
ThistleWebI swear a lot too, I have no probs with peeps swearing; the key is context.Jul 19 02:20
splosionI guess soJul 19 02:20
ThistleWeba word is just a wordJul 19 02:20
twitterfoul words are not simply words - the taboo does things to your head and it has been proven experimentally to act as a pain killer.Jul 19 02:22
twittera torrent of foulness will create stress in the recipientJul 19 02:22
ThistleWeblol twitterJul 19 02:22
ThistleWebyou are an endless source of amusementJul 19 02:23
splosionno, that's actually trueJul 19 02:23
splosionanother fact is that swear-words weren't invented till immediately after the shin-level table (commonly known as a coffee table nowadays) was inventedJul 19 02:24
ThistleWebif that's a result of a study, again I point to contextJul 19 02:24
twitter,0,3151637.columnJul 19 02:25
ThistleWeba string of swear words in a comedy routine is different to a string of swear words being shouted by some looney in the streetJul 19 02:25
ThistleWebsome peeps are more indoctrinated to react to swearing tooJul 19 02:26
splosionTrue. the thing is, swearing is unnecessary by definition. that's what makes it so deliciousJul 19 02:26
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twitterthe reaction, at some level, is the sameJul 19 02:27
twitterthe article I found is not the best write up.Jul 19 02:27
ThistleWebit is usefull for emphasising stuff but is often overused, or used by peeps who have no comprehension of the meaning.....most common being "that's gay"Jul 19 02:27
ThistleWebtechnically not swearing now I think about it lolJul 19 02:28
seller_liarfor example , voting posts is used by trolls to destroy credibilityJul 19 02:28
seller_liarcola guide about trolls is very good, but we need some updatesJul 19 02:28
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splosionhey schestowitz, have you ever written a BN article about Ed Curry?Jul 19 02:29
schestowitzNoJul 19 02:29
twitterbetter article!.aspxJul 19 02:29
schestowitzGood newsJul 19 02:30
schestowitzUpdrage was successful this time, at first sightJul 19 02:30
seller_liargreengeek cites another attack trolls too : 19 02:30
seller_liarwe need to put these strategies in "common troll tactics"Jul 19 02:30
splosionit's one of those things that's been swept under the rug. it's a shame. If it wasn't for, a lot of the information about it all wouldn't exist any more. I should write about it some timeJul 19 02:30
twittertaboo words should be avoided because they manipulate people in a powerful wayJul 19 02:31
ThistleWebyep, the old self censorship and sticking-your-fingers-in-your-ears style....classicJul 19 02:32
ThistleWebmeanwhile, back in the real worldJul 19 02:32
twitter->  64 volunteers who were asked to submerge their hand in a tub of freezing water for as long as possible while repeating a swear word of their choice.  The experiment was then repeated, this time using a more commonplace, neutral word which they might use to describe a table and the researchers found, despite their initial expectations, that the volunteers were able to keep their hands plunged in the ice water for a longer periodJul 19 02:32
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twitter->  On average, the students were able to tolerate the pain for nearly two minutes when swearing, compared with only one minute and 15 seconds when they refrained from using expletivesJul 19 02:33
seller_liarhey twitter , can you update "common troll tactics" ?Jul 19 02:35
ThistleWebschestowitz: could wordpress be tweaked to block certain users from voting comments and articles while allowing others to voteJul 19 02:35
twitterwhere is the article common troll tactics ?Jul 19 02:35
ThistleWebthat'd anny the MS shillsJul 19 02:35
ThistleWebannoy*Jul 19 02:36
seller_liarwaitJul 19 02:36
seller_liar 19 02:37
seller_liarcola troll tactics is a bit outdatedJul 19 02:37
schestowitzYes! :-) (to selfJul 19 02:37
schestowitzseller_liar: bring it up to date as you see suitable :-)Jul 19 02:37
schestowitzI'm managing to maintain comment structure as I upgrade WPJul 19 02:37
seller_liarthe " new"   trolls have find new ways to disrupt informationJul 19 02:38
schestowitzSO we'll evolveJul 19 02:38
seller_liarLike "low voting" and other thingsJul 19 02:38
schestowitzseller_liar: I can disable comment votingJul 19 02:38
schestowitzOr limit itJul 19 02:38
seller_liarI 'm not specialist in  troll tacticsJul 19 02:38
schestowitzbrbJul 19 02:38
schestowitzlet me finish upgradingJul 19 02:38
seller_liaryes but in slashdot  alot  of trroll use low votingJul 19 02:38
ThistleWebanother way would be to disable voting for everyone apart from a few trusted admins, then let them read the comments and vote as they see fitJul 19 02:39
splosionI don't really pay any attention to the voting system, though. Do many people? It isn't as if low-rated comments are hiddenJul 19 02:40
seller_liaryes, I know , but we need to put in "common troll tactics"Jul 19 02:40
ThistleWebsplosion: I don't eitherJul 19 02:41
splosionbe careful with censorship, though. Don't let the place become an echo chamber. I detest censorship, but I agree the trolling on the recent articles is rather absurdJul 19 02:41
ThistleWebanother way to look at it, is that because of the astroturfers tactics, usually a comment which is voted down has more truth to itJul 19 02:41
splosionI see that tooJul 19 02:41
ThistleWebto try and discredit itJul 19 02:42
ThistleWebyeah, having admins doing the voting does mean censorship, I thought about that after I suggested it myself. It's not an ideal suggestionJul 19 02:43
ThistleWebeven if it is censorship for a good cause. "good" is subjectiveJul 19 02:43
ThistleWebit's also what EVERYONE who practces it claimsJul 19 02:44
splosionI saw a comment on reddit about Mono and patents which was pretty good. He listed a few of the threats, and said, "You can mod me down if any of this is true." Knowing full well that the downvoters know it's true, and they don't like people drawing attention to itJul 19 02:44
ThistleWeblolJul 19 02:44
seller_liargrey geek explain another troll tacticJul 19 02:47
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seller_liarI have a suggestion. Allowing these MS shills to share the same threads as civil folks gives them too much front page space. That is precisely how they hijacked Canopus. Just like DELL and the other PC OEMs were/are forced to keep hardware featuring Linux to back pages or face get their “air supply cut off” by Microsoft not funding ad revenues, you should move obvious TE posts to another page,Jul 19 02:47
splosion hereJul 19 02:47
seller_liartroll posts a lot do disrupt  adsJul 19 02:48
splosionIf it were my decision, I'd have a script that replaces the contents of the shill comments with "I AM COLOSSAL FAGGOT btw my IP address is" Or at least append it on to the end of each comment.Jul 19 02:51
schestowitzsplosion: watch your language, pleaseJul 19 02:51
splosionsorryJul 19 02:51
schestowitzYou're hurting our causeJul 19 02:52
splosionluckily for you it's not up to meJul 19 02:52
schestowitzThanks for the understandingJul 19 02:52
cubezzzI've been watching microsoft for a long timeJul 19 02:52
cubezzzI know what they're likeJul 19 02:53
seller_liaranother troll tactic is the use of sterotypesJul 19 02:53
seller_liarfor example  linux = communismJul 19 02:53
schestowitzOK, all my plugins are enabled nowJul 19 02:54
schestowitzThis is brilliant. It ssems as though with 12 or so plugins we made a non-lossy upgrade and everything is compatible after I fetched some plugin updatesJul 19 02:54
cubezzzI'm a bit worried that all the linux pda's seemed to have disappeared :-/Jul 19 02:54
schestowitzJust Linux? :-)Jul 19 02:54
schestowitzLook at WIndowsJul 19 02:54
schestowitzPDAs dieJul 19 02:54
schestowitzThere are surveys that show thisJul 19 02:54
tessiercubezzz: PDA's in general have disappeared. Replaced by smart phones, iphones, etc.Jul 19 02:54
schestowitzSince 2006Jul 19 02:54
schestowitzphones vs  pdaJul 19 02:55
schestowitzSmartphones ratherJul 19 02:55
tessierThere never really were many Linux PDA's anyway.Jul 19 02:55
cubezzzthat's trueJul 19 02:55
tessierPalm never made one. The Pre is too little too late.Jul 19 02:55
tessieriPhone kicked their ass.Jul 19 02:55
schestowitzDell killed its windows PDAs in 2007 IIRCJul 19 02:55
tessierI don't even run the Palm mailing list anymore.Jul 19 02:55
schestowitzAnd it was among the last out thereJul 19 02:55
tessierIt got hosed up and I never fixed it.Jul 19 02:55
cubezzzI guess everyone wants a cell phone? NOT :)Jul 19 02:55
cubezzzat least I don'tJul 19 02:56
schestowitztessier: I used to doa  lot in Palm USNET NGsJul 19 02:56
schestowitzIncluding statsJul 19 02:56
schestowitzBut I quit around 2007Jul 19 02:56
schestowitzLack of interest.. not just meJul 19 02:56
schestowitzMy Palm still works well with jpilot on Linux Jul 19 02:56
cubezzzyeah there's lots of iphones around, seeminglyJul 19 02:57
schestowitztwitter: thanks for the editsJul 19 02:58
cubezzzI just want a small pda to program onJul 19 02:58
twitterno problem, it is soothing.Jul 19 02:58
splosionhrmm, the formatting is a bit strange on the common troll tactics wikiJul 19 03:01
cubezzzNokia N800 looks interestingJul 19 03:05
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EdgarI just did further research, it appears that software patents slow down innovation :|Jul 19 03:17
Diablo-D3slow down?Jul 19 03:17
Diablo-D3dude, it kills itJul 19 03:17
EdgaryesJul 19 03:18
seller_liaranother ideea is create a chronological line of bad history of microsoftJul 19 03:18
cubezzzI thought microsoft was bad in the windows 2.0 days :)Jul 19 03:19
seller_liaryes , but using a chronlogical line is very good to document factsJul 19 03:19
cubezzzin fact I was surprised it took over the way it didJul 19 03:19
seller_liarand then , people will adding more and more information in chronological lineJul 19 03:20
seller_liarfacts like obama presentation using silverblight, steve "egg" ballmer and othersJul 19 03:20
cubezzzI got something you might be interested in:Jul 19 03:21
cubezzz 19 03:21
seller_liarput in the wikiJul 19 03:21
schestowitzHi, Edgar Jul 19 03:21
schestowitzAny new links?Jul 19 03:21
seller_liarmediawiki have a plugin for drawing chronological lines?Jul 19 03:22
schestowitzMaybeJul 19 03:22
cubezzzAmiga should have wonJul 19 03:22
schestowitzI have mediawiki access issues today... their site isn't functioningJul 19 03:22
seller_liarno problem roy , This is only ideas.There's no need to put ideas in action nowJul 19 03:23
cubezzzI was looking for some vid of Bill Gates at the doj trial but I couldn't find anythingJul 19 03:23
cubezzzanyway, most people know MS = bad :)Jul 19 03:25
seller_liaranother idea is put status of mono infection in distrosJul 19 03:25
seller_liarfor  example list the number of mono packages each distro haveJul 19 03:25
seller_liarand put some history about mono infectionsJul 19 03:26
Edgarhmmm... i wonder thoughJul 19 03:27
EdgarIs mac really a threat? I was just reading that cubezzz but, didn't Microsoft help apple once? :/Jul 19 03:28
cubezzzEdgar: yes, microsoft gave apple a lot of moneyJul 19 03:28
cubezzzfor stock I thinkJul 19 03:28
EdgaryesJul 19 03:28
schestowitzApple and Microsoft work together in areasJul 19 03:29
schestowitzOOXML for exampleJul 19 03:29
Diablo-D3dont go trying to say apple is in microsoft's pocketJul 19 03:29
cubezzzmac isn't that good !=FOSSJul 19 03:29
Edgar>_>Jul 19 03:29
schestowitzApple likes software patents and DRM... media format and stuff...Jul 19 03:29
EdgarHmmJul 19 03:29
Diablo-D3apple and microsoft just have a long and complex history togetherJul 19 03:29
schestowitzYEsJul 19 03:29
EdgarI wasn't suggesting that (yet) >_> I was just getting suspicious and haven't really found anything on the web about why MS would support apple :/Jul 19 03:30
Diablo-D3Edgar: historical reasonsJul 19 03:30
cubezzzcover all the basesJul 19 03:30
cubezzzget money from every platformJul 19 03:30
Diablo-D3microsoft was started as a company to produce software for apple platformsJul 19 03:30
EdgarhmJul 19 03:30
Diablo-D3bill gates for a very short time was an apple employeeJul 19 03:31
Diablo-D3but bill and steve's egos cant both fit in the same room at the same timeJul 19 03:31
EdgarLOLJul 19 03:31
cubezzzwell, altair was the start :)Jul 19 03:31
schestowitzI'd have to check what's new in WordPress 2.8Jul 19 03:32
cubezzzBASIC for AltairJul 19 03:32
Diablo-D3bill promised apple software, howeverJul 19 03:32
schestowitzI hardly see any differencesJul 19 03:32
Diablo-D3eventually they did get thatJul 19 03:32
Diablo-D3such as msie and officeJul 19 03:32
Diablo-D3but apple is very much independantJul 19 03:32
schestowitzI'm also installing new software on itJul 19 03:32
Diablo-D3I also believe apple is an important allie to haveJul 19 03:32
Diablo-D3they are pro fossJul 19 03:32
cubezzzwell, at least it avoids total mono-cultureJul 19 03:32
Diablo-D3being pro foss doesnt mean you're anti closed sourceJul 19 03:32
Diablo-D3cubezzz: heeeeeee mono cultureJul 19 03:32
cubezzzso we have windows, mac and LinuxJul 19 03:33
cubezzzI paid for my Amiga 500 rom willingly :)Jul 19 03:33
Diablo-D3but yeahJul 19 03:34
Diablo-D3apple contributes a lot to fossJul 19 03:34
seller_liarapple is not friend of opensourceJul 19 03:35
Diablo-D3seller_liar: thats not true at allJul 19 03:35
seller_liarif someday apple need to destroy foss, it willJul 19 03:36
Diablo-D3of courseJul 19 03:36
Diablo-D3but thats the day after microsoft closes it's doors foreverJul 19 03:36
seller_liarapple uses exclusive tactives to use only apple 's  equipmentJul 19 03:36
cubezzzwas BSD before Linux?Jul 19 03:36
Diablo-D3cubezzz: yesJul 19 03:36
seller_liardrm , block iphoneJul 19 03:36
Diablo-D3apple does contribute back to many foss projectsJul 19 03:37
Diablo-D3they also run many of their ownJul 19 03:37
seller_liarthis is a trues anti-competitive and anti-cooperative tacticJul 19 03:37
Diablo-D3seller_liar: not at allJul 19 03:37
Diablo-D3apple just retains control over their own platformJul 19 03:37
cubezzzinteresting that Linux caught on more that BSDJul 19 03:37
Diablo-D3they dont try to destroy other platformsJul 19 03:37
seller_liarapple blocks itunes for every mobile deviceJul 19 03:37
cubezzzthat=thanJul 19 03:37
Diablo-D3cubezzz: erm, most commercial unixes are derived from either bsd or the original at&t unixJul 19 03:38
Diablo-D3seller_liar: because itunes is their platformJul 19 03:38
seller_liarapple is not different than microsoftJul 19 03:38
cubezzzsurely apple is a _bit_ less evil :)Jul 19 03:38
Diablo-D3apple is very different than microsoft: apple actually has a hardware platform people want to buyJul 19 03:38
seller_liarclosed platform ,closed software and everythinf]gJul 19 03:39
Diablo-D3not closed at allJul 19 03:39
Diablo-D3please, a tad less fudJul 19 03:39
seller_liarthis is not a progress , this is helping apple to gain more power and give more powers to proprietary hardware and softwareJul 19 03:39
cubezzzwhen did bsd go open, or was it always open?Jul 19 03:39
Diablo-D3cubezzz: it was always openJul 19 03:40
cubezzzahaJul 19 03:40
Diablo-D3cubezzz: the first bsd had the bsd licenseJul 19 03:40
Diablo-D3the four clause version, but one nonethelessJul 19 03:40
Diablo-D3seller_liar: btw, thats not trueJul 19 03:40
seller_liarif apple gain more power, then apple can destroy every company of worldJul 19 03:40
Diablo-D3seller_liar: nothing apple has unique hardware anymoreJul 19 03:40
EdgarnoJul 19 03:40
Diablo-D3they no longer use PPC for their desktops and laptops and serverJul 19 03:40
Diablo-D3its generic x86 nowJul 19 03:40
cubezzzall the way back to 1977?Jul 19 03:40
Diablo-D3cubezzz: yupJul 19 03:40
cubezzzwowJul 19 03:40
seller_liarbecause only apple knows about the hardware ,software can run only in apple hardwareJul 19 03:41
Diablo-D3seller_liar: so?Jul 19 03:41
Diablo-D3also, the iphone is not unique, android phones are built basically the same wayJul 19 03:41
seller_liaryes ,they use x86 , but blocks all software using drmJul 19 03:41
Diablo-D3its a generic embedded arm setup with some nifty chips plugged in and a multitouch screenJul 19 03:41
seller_liarand if people tries to block , apple call DMCA to destroy competitionJul 19 03:41
Diablo-D3seller_liar: where are you getting this DRM shit?Jul 19 03:41
seller_liarblock = unblockJul 19 03:42
Diablo-D3the OSX on non-apple hardware check is a) very easy to remove, b) not DRMJul 19 03:42
seller_liarapple forbids unsigned iphone appsJul 19 03:42
Diablo-D3apple can forbid unsigned iphone apps and effect no oneJul 19 03:42
seller_liarapple tries to block unsigned hardware used in imacJul 19 03:42
Diablo-D3its _their_ platformJul 19 03:42
Diablo-D3they have a right to make sure everything on their platform meets a minimum of awesomenessJul 19 03:43
Diablo-D3thats their entire selling point, they _should_ protect itJul 19 03:43
Diablo-D3Im surprised they dont also do it for osxJul 19 03:43
seller_liaryesJul 19 03:44
seller_liarPeople should not use iphone osJul 19 03:44
Diablo-D3if you dont like how apple does it, then DONT USE ITJul 19 03:44
seller_liarit's better to use another osJul 19 03:44
Diablo-D3apple _doesnt_ try to destroy other platformsJul 19 03:44
Diablo-D3in fact, they do much to enhance themJul 19 03:44
Diablo-D3apple's fundamental strategy works different than microsoftJul 19 03:44
Diablo-D3steve jobs is the world's greatest salesman, bill gates is the world's greatest businessmanJul 19 03:45
Diablo-D3bill goes around and makes sure microsoft is your only choice by buying out or destroying the competition....Jul 19 03:45
cubezzzhmmmJul 19 03:45
Diablo-D3steve just convinces you apple is the only choice and leaves everyone else aloneJul 19 03:45
ThistleWebapple enhances other platforms? like the palm pre with it's itunes support?Jul 19 03:45
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: webkit, for oneJul 19 03:46
ThistleWebI guess removing itunes is "enhancing" to someJul 19 03:46
Edgar>_>Jul 19 03:46
Diablo-D3and no, the palm pre hacked itunes supportJul 19 03:46
ThistleWebahh yes khtmlJul 19 03:46
Diablo-D3apple never supported the plam preJul 19 03:46
ThistleWebyou said they enhancedJul 19 03:46
ThistleWebnot supportedJul 19 03:46
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: they didnt enhance the palm preJul 19 03:46
Diablo-D3palm didJul 19 03:46
Diablo-D3apple didnt like itJul 19 03:46
ThistleWebthey intentionally broke the palm pre itunes supportJul 19 03:46
Edgari don't like the iphone or the ipod, i'd prefer a cowon, or iaudio, or something else >_> iphone, i just don't care for itJul 19 03:46
Diablo-D3they intentionally fixed a bug.Jul 19 03:47
ThistleWebis that aople enhancing?Jul 19 03:47
Aondoi think what apple is doing with the osx stuff isnt too bad for foss community, even tho it's not ideal, what i mean is that i think it's good with more competition with each other, and with the windows systems.Jul 19 03:47
seller_liarapple uses the power of foss to gain more power in proprietary platformJul 19 03:47
Diablo-D3if palm wanted itunes support, they very much could have gotten itJul 19 03:47
ThistleWebyes, the bug was that a non-apple hardware could use itunesJul 19 03:47
seller_liarwebkit, cups and others are only to help apple in proprietary applicationJul 19 03:47
Aondothe more people use different system, the better it is for open standards, and free software with itJul 19 03:47
Diablo-D3they never will now, howeverJul 19 03:47
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: what I dont get thoughJul 19 03:47
Diablo-D3is why palm cared about itunesJul 19 03:47
ThistleWebwhen palm find a patch for it, apple will break it again as they always doJul 19 03:47
Diablo-D3itunes isnt exactly that great of a music player interfaceJul 19 03:48
Diablo-D3and itunes is no longer drm, so the palm can play back AAC files anyhowJul 19 03:48
seller_liarit's not just  forbids the user to do anything with iphoneJul 19 03:48
ThistleWebit's only a bug if you buy the fantasy PR line Apple spinJul 19 03:48
ThistleWebthe rest of us see it for what it isJul 19 03:48
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: its a bug... itunes detected a non-ipod device as an ipodJul 19 03:48
AondoDiablo-D3  itunes doesnt have water marks either?Jul 19 03:48
Diablo-D3Aondo: it does, but it doesnt effect playbackJul 19 03:48
AondookJul 19 03:48
Diablo-D3theres no longer any DRM on new itunes filesJul 19 03:49
seller_liarapple products are anti-ethicalJul 19 03:49
ThistleWebso requiring itunes to sync is not DRN?Jul 19 03:49
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: huh?Jul 19 03:49
ThistleWebDRM*Jul 19 03:49
Diablo-D3you drag and drop filesJul 19 03:49
seller_liartries to gain money stealing "rights from people"Jul 19 03:49
Diablo-D3you plug any music player in, and it appears as a USB Mass Storage deviceJul 19 03:50
ThistleWebyour controlling what apps a user can use to sync with the deviceJul 19 03:50
cubezzzI think puretracks still has drm, so there's still some drm musicJul 19 03:50
seller_liarand uses opensource like "free work"Jul 19 03:50
ThistleWebrather than letting them chose their ownJul 19 03:50
Diablo-D3you drag the files from your itunes library to your deviceJul 19 03:50
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: but why is palm allowing people to use itunes?Jul 19 03:50
Diablo-D3its not a good app, there are betterJul 19 03:50
ThistleWebso why wont apple let people use the better apps?Jul 19 03:51
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: huh?Jul 19 03:51
ThistleWebit's DRM.....about controlJul 19 03:51
seller_liarbuying iphone you help a company to control our societyJul 19 03:51
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: wtf are you talking about?Jul 19 03:51
ThistleWebthere are better apps than itunesJul 19 03:51
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: I can take a song I bought off itunes and play it ANYWHEREJul 19 03:51
Diablo-D3apple doesnt stop meJul 19 03:51
Diablo-D3they removed drm for their entire libraryJul 19 03:52
ThistleWebyet apple will keep modifying their stuff when any other app works with their hardware to force people into using THEIR softwareJul 19 03:52
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: ....Jul 19 03:52
ThistleWebthis is DRMJul 19 03:52
Diablo-D3no its notJul 19 03:52
Diablo-D3DRM is a software mechanism to manage rights of a data file.Jul 19 03:52
cubezzzok, can a linux user use itunes?Jul 19 03:52
ThistleWebApple (the rights holder) is restricting the user's choice of appsJul 19 03:52
Diablo-D3cubezzz: the songs? yes.Jul 19 03:52
Diablo-D3cubezzz: the software? doesnt work right in wine yetJul 19 03:52
*cubezzz nodsJul 19 03:53
seller_liarnoJul 19 03:53
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: yes, they're restricting itunes sync with apple playersJul 19 03:53
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: they're _not_ restricting itunes usage by itselfJul 19 03:53
Edgar>_> seller_liarJul 19 03:53
Edgaryou meanJul 19 03:53
EdgarUNETHICALJul 19 03:53
ThistleWebwhen it gets close to working in wine, do you think Apple will change the habit of  a lifetime and let it pass?Jul 19 03:53
Aondocan a gnu/linux user, use itunes with free software, only?  - i like this question better :DJul 19 03:53
*Edgar slaps seller_liar! D:Jul 19 03:53
EdgarLEARN TO SPELL D:Jul 19 03:53
ThistleWebor will there be another "bug fix" which changes itJul 19 03:53
Edgarwait you spelled it rightJul 19 03:53
Diablo-D3Aondo: not yet, but theres other music stores tooJul 19 03:53
*Edgar facepalmsJul 19 03:53
Diablo-D3amazon works entirely through firefoxJul 19 03:54
Diablo-D3and the files arent drmed, they're normal mp3sJul 19 03:54
cubezzzI'm using puretracks in Canada currentlyJul 19 03:54
Diablo-D3they're not bad quality eitherJul 19 03:54
oiaohmTwo major methods.Jul 19 03:54
oiaohmDRM or Watermark.Jul 19 03:54
Diablo-D3watermarking is totally okayJul 19 03:55
Diablo-D3it identifies who the file was sold toJul 19 03:55
oiaohmPersonally I prefer Watermarking.Jul 19 03:55
Diablo-D3watermarking can be done in ways that have nothing to do with the audio streamJul 19 03:55
oiaohmIt only really targets thoses who do wrong.Jul 19 03:55
*ugufjhfj has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jul 19 03:55
oiaohmStrongest for tracking are embeded in the stream.Jul 19 03:55
seller_liarsorry edgarJul 19 03:55
Aondooiaohm, so if you "hack" my system and get my files, water marking will help punish you?Jul 19 03:56
Diablo-D3no, its just an idv3 tag most of the timeJul 19 03:56
Diablo-D3Aondo: no, it'd prove you're intp piracyJul 19 03:56
Diablo-D3why would you let anyone steal your shit?Jul 19 03:56
oiaohmI have used watermarking in business printers to track person who printered files.Jul 19 03:56
cubezzzok, you bought the cd, it got stratched up, then you download a replacment ... :-0Jul 19 03:57
oiaohmTo find who was leaking information.Jul 19 03:57
Diablo-D3cubezzz: why are you using the original?Jul 19 03:57
AondoDiablo-D3, well.. nothing on internet is 100% safe, so if someone copies my files, without my permission.. i would get the blame most likelyJul 19 03:57
Diablo-D3Aondo: and you should get the blameJul 19 03:57
cubezzzDiablo-D3, I'm not, just a hypothetical thereJul 19 03:57
oiaohmIt tells were the leak is.Jul 19 03:57
Diablo-D3cubezzz: yes, you can buy another copy.Jul 19 03:57
ThistleWebAondo: relax, Apple ain't very letigious ROFLJul 19 03:57
Aondo:)Jul 19 03:58
Diablo-D3you _can_ 'pirate' another copy legally, btwJul 19 03:58
oiaohmWould you not want to know that you had a information leaking Aondo?Jul 19 03:58
Diablo-D3its not piracy since you own a licenseJul 19 03:58
Diablo-D3but heres the fun partJul 19 03:58
Diablo-D3just dont use the originalJul 19 03:58
cubezzzah :)Jul 19 03:58
ThistleWebor dont buy from itunesJul 19 03:58
Diablo-D3all the CDs I own I rip then put on the shelf never to be touched againJul 19 03:58
EdgarI hate DRMJul 19 03:58
Aondooiaohm, i guess i would, but to be honest i'm not sure how the process would be, if i got contacted becaus my watermarked files got spread around :PJul 19 03:59
ThistleWebyeah, so do Apple (if you buy the PR)Jul 19 03:59
Diablo-D3you know whats wrong with the whole FOSS movement?Jul 19 03:59
Diablo-D3you have people who are very most honestly out of their fucking mindsJul 19 03:59
ThistleWebexcept they dont count all the vendor lockin as DRMJul 19 03:59
Edgar>_>Jul 19 03:59
Diablo-D3Well guess what guys, the world isn't a giant commune.Jul 19 04:00
EdgarYeah, that is silly...Jul 19 04:00
cubezzzwhat, we got Stallman, he's pretty normal, what are you talking about :)Jul 19 04:00
EdgarFree as in freedom, not free beer :/Jul 19 04:00
Diablo-D3Quit being fucking hippies, get out of your mom's basement, and get a fucking job.Jul 19 04:00
seller_liarshare knowledge  must be permittedJul 19 04:00
Diablo-D3Apple has a right to do whatever they fucking wantJul 19 04:00
Diablo-D3No one is putting a gun to your head to do business with themJul 19 04:00
Diablo-D3they're not the only mass retailer of musicJul 19 04:00
cubezzzthat's trueJul 19 04:01
seller_liarif you won t share ,simple don t tell to anyoneJul 19 04:01
EdgarHmm, the thing that bothers me about the freedom idea is how do you make money from that :/Jul 19 04:01
ThistleWebDiablo-D3: yep, thats the capitalist spirit, go Madoff....he had the right to do whatever he wanted right?Jul 19 04:01
cubezzzthere are ways to make moneyJul 19 04:01
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: less trolling, kthxJul 19 04:01
ThistleWeblaws only count if you're the one making themJul 19 04:01
oiaohmThing is Aondo if you are not gulity of being the pirate you would have a thief stealing stuff from you.   So would be interested to find out who because they most likely nicked other things from you as well.Jul 19 04:01
cubezzzeven Stallman needs _some_ moneyJul 19 04:02
seller_liaryou don t need make money from softwareJul 19 04:02
oiaohmHopefully not credit cards AondoJul 19 04:02
cubezzzI've made money from Linux installs and Linux laptopsJul 19 04:02
Diablo-D3and btw, Aondo, if someone is leeching shit from you and did so without permission, file a police reportJul 19 04:02
Aondooiaohm, i dont see it as stealing thoJul 19 04:02
EdgarI always wondered how stallman lives his life :/Jul 19 04:02
Diablo-D3they dont have to do anything, just let you file itJul 19 04:02
AondoDiablo-D3, i'm just asking, since i dont know what the copyright owner would really do, if they found traces of anybodies watermarked filesJul 19 04:03
seller_liarproprietary software cannot live because it steals knowledgeJul 19 04:03
Diablo-D3Aondo: bitch loudlyJul 19 04:04
Diablo-D3which is why you need the police reportJul 19 04:04
Edgar>_> 1.) Most people don't look at the source code, they don't steal knowledge, the issues I see (Atm) are patents and innovation being slowed down or killed by that :/Jul 19 04:04
seller_liarfor example , you cannot do a clone of windows even if you prove you do everything aloneJul 19 04:04
Aondoso should i file a report, for them copying some files, getting into my system... or both? :)Jul 19 04:04
Diablo-D3seller_liar: not trueJul 19 04:04
Diablo-D3you can do a clean room impl of windowsdJul 19 04:04
cubezzzin Canada the police wouldn't do anything about file sharing I don't thinkJul 19 04:04
Diablo-D3Aondo: bothJul 19 04:04
Diablo-D3Aondo: the cops dont have to actually do any work, just let you file the reportJul 19 04:05
oiaohmWrong cubezzzJul 19 04:05
seller_liarinnovation is not importantJul 19 04:05
oiaohmIt depends on what is being shared.Jul 19 04:05
seller_liarDiablo-D3:  you can use windows logo?Jul 19 04:05
Edgar:/Jul 19 04:05
cubezzzcite a court case thenJul 19 04:05
AondoDiablo-D3, so if i dont file any report at all, becaus i didnt know or whatever reason.. i am to blame, without anyother proof? in the eyes of the copyright holder i mean.Jul 19 04:05
*Edgar brain implodes unto itself from what seller_liar just said.Jul 19 04:05
seller_liarinnovation is not importantJul 19 04:06
*Edgar brain implodes unto itself from what seller_liar just said.Jul 19 04:06
oiaohmAondo: files you don't create you are basically the care taker for.Jul 19 04:06
seller_liarethics is the most important thing of worldJul 19 04:06
cubezzzwell, maybe if someone was file sharing the windows source code that would get them in troubleJul 19 04:06
schestowitzClimate Follies: Bankrolling Dirty Power in Developing Countries 19 04:06
cubezzzbut music sharing?Jul 19 04:06
Diablo-D3Aondo: if you leave your door unlocked and someone steals your shit, yes, its your faultJul 19 04:06
oiaohmSo Aondo if they get stolen from you and you don't report it.  It is still you problem.Jul 19 04:06
seller_liarinnovation can destroy the societyJul 19 04:07
Diablo-D3Aondo: having a file server that is directly accessible from the net is the same thing as having an unlocked doorJul 19 04:07
*Edgar brain implodes unto itself from what seller_liar just said.Jul 19 04:07
seller_liarinnovation is only a toolJul 19 04:07
Aondooiaohm  i'm sorry, stolen? you dont steal files, you copy them.Jul 19 04:07
seller_liarthe society does not need new toolsJul 19 04:07
seller_liarthe society need ethicsJul 19 04:07
ThistleWebthe "locking your door" analogy only applies when the regular Joe has the IT skillz of a proJul 19 04:07
Diablo-D3the only thing DRM did for music is force the player to also have a valid copy of the licenseJul 19 04:07
Diablo-D3it actually protected you legallyJul 19 04:07
Diablo-D3no one could steal your musicJul 19 04:07
AondoDiablo-D3, you can allways break a locked doorJul 19 04:07
Diablo-D3they could take the file, but the license is still yoursJul 19 04:08
oiaohmSteal is someone breaking you password and downloading them without you permission.  Not exactly just coping AondoJul 19 04:08
Diablo-D3now that DRM is basically dead, its up to _you_ to enforce that only you use your licenseJul 19 04:08
Aondoheck... i've seen people go thrue the roof.. to get stuff :PJul 19 04:08
Diablo-D3with power comes responsibilityJul 19 04:08
oiaohmExactly someone nicks your computer with other peoples copyrighted works on it you should report it.Jul 19 04:09
oiaohmBy reporting what has happened its not your legal problem any more.Jul 19 04:09
AondoDiablo-D3, DRM isnt dead in my country thought, i have a hard time playing some dvds.. havent even tried the bluerays :PJul 19 04:09
Diablo-D3Aondo: region locking is basically deadJul 19 04:10
cubezzzyeah, I wouldn't say DRM is totally deadJul 19 04:10
Diablo-D3and theres no region locked blurays yetJul 19 04:10
EdgarBlurays do have DRM thoughJul 19 04:10
oiaohmRegion locking is illegal in australia.Jul 19 04:10
AondoDiablo-D3, i'm talking crypting.. and decrypting.Jul 19 04:10
Diablo-D3blurays have drm, this is trueJul 19 04:10
oiaohmBluray copy protection has not been tested in a court of law.Jul 19 04:10
Edgarwhich is why linux can't play them too well yet ftrom what I ReadJul 19 04:10
oiaohmLinux can play them EdgarJul 19 04:11
EdgarALthough it has been crackedJul 19 04:11
Diablo-D3dvd drm is dead thoughJul 19 04:11
Diablo-D3has been for yearsJul 19 04:11
oiaohmBut is evil.Jul 19 04:11
EdgarI Said not too wellJul 19 04:11
oiaohmWindows Bluray play program in wine.Jul 19 04:11
Diablo-D3oiaohm: thats shitty since I only use mplayerJul 19 04:11
Diablo-D3mplayer can decrypt some bluraysJul 19 04:11
Diablo-D3but nothing with newer keysJul 19 04:11
oiaohmSome blurays are not DRMed.Jul 19 04:12
Aondonot an ideal thing, to fight with drm, just to have some fun with a movieJul 19 04:12
Diablo-D3I actually wish they'd just have a java program that does the cryptJul 19 04:12
oiaohmI wish it was required to label what ones are and are not.Jul 19 04:12
Edgari find i funny the more the industry uses DRM the more people fight backJul 19 04:12
Edgarand the more they lose D:Jul 19 04:12
Diablo-D3bd+ encryption would be easily faked with a virtual machineJul 19 04:12
AondoEdgar  you mean the industry lose?Jul 19 04:13
oiaohmThey don't really lose that is the problem EdgarJul 19 04:13
oiaohmPeople still buy releated products.Jul 19 04:13
Diablo-D3actually they did loseJul 19 04:13
Diablo-D3I buy and play dvds on linux :DJul 19 04:13
AondoDiablo-D3 you are not needed to use any special libs to do so? :PJul 19 04:14
Diablo-D3nopeJul 19 04:14
Diablo-D3I dont need decss anymore, its built into mplayer nowJul 19 04:14
Aondoso if i gave you any movie from lets say disney... you would have no problem playing it. without any special libs to do some decrypting?Jul 19 04:14
EdgarAnother thing, I Know some people who really don't give a damn about DRM and are completely ALOOF to it c_C; its the only thing that bothers me though ONLY THINGJul 19 04:14
cubezzzhmm, I think Sony did some weird stuff with DVDsJul 19 04:14
Diablo-D3Aondo: I have potc on dvd, Ive watched it on my computerJul 19 04:14
cubezzzVHS had macrovisionJul 19 04:15
AondoDiablo-D3, i've seen many dvds on my box too, but never without libs... well except big buck bunny and a few otherJul 19 04:15
schestowitzOK, two more blogs (WP) upgraded succuessfullyJul 19 04:15
oiaohmmacrovision tech is still used to block recording out of some dvd players.Jul 19 04:15
seller_liarThe only thing I know isJul 19 04:16
seller_liarApple and microsoft try to gain monopolyJul 19 04:16
seller_liarapple uses restrictions and microsoft uses destructionJul 19 04:16
oiaohmApple is interesting.Jul 19 04:17
seller_liarapple and microsoft are not differentJul 19 04:17
oiaohmApple was one of the first to offer water marked files with DRM ones.Jul 19 04:17
oiaohmWith a price difference.Jul 19 04:17
seller_liarboth companies have evil InsideJul 19 04:17
Aondoseller_liar, not gonna protest on you there :D but i think and hope, that the bigger apple and the foss community gets the more people demand open standards worldwideJul 19 04:17
ThistleWebMS at least dont control the hardware (aside from bullying vendors)Jul 19 04:17
schestowitzThe personal blog has just been updated too. All that's required now is that I go around the panels, pages, categories, etc etc and check that everything is in tact. It's not possible to check every page individually, but by checking a large number of pages one gets a sample of whether there is any bug as the result of the upgrade or not. Is there anything to automate it?Jul 19 04:18
seller_liarbut use power to destroy competitionJul 19 04:18
seller_liaropen standards is different of free softwareJul 19 04:18
schestowitzIt's always hard to knock what to you systematicallyJul 19 04:18
ThistleWebApple control both the hardware and software on their platforms, which makes it easy for them to restrict, with no excuses when stuff don't "just work"Jul 19 04:18
seller_liarwe need free software and open standards ,Jul 19 04:18
schestowitzI',m going to bed now. If anyone spot something funny in BN, please holler :-DJul 19 04:18
seller_liaropen standards only is not enoughJul 19 04:19
Aondoseller_liar, yes, but with open standards, free software lives easierJul 19 04:19
ThistleWebcya schestowitzJul 19 04:19
schestowitzLet's see if mediawiki can be patched tooJul 19 04:19
seller_liarbye royJul 19 04:19
schestowitzMedia wiki svn has been down since the morningJul 19 04:20
oiaohmOpenstandards allow open source and free software to interface.Jul 19 04:20
wallclimbergood night's been interestingJul 19 04:20
Aondo:)Jul 19 04:20
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oiaohmI am not foolish enough to say there is no place for closed source..Jul 19 04:21
oiaohmThere is a place for all types of software.Jul 19 04:21
oiaohmWe just need a fair competition system.Jul 19 04:21
ThistleWebyou mean stuff that works and stuff that dont?Jul 19 04:21
ThistleWeb:PJul 19 04:21
oiaohmEvery thing should have a fair chance of working.Jul 19 04:21
oiaohmSo that groups with poor programmers or software quality get a chance to die.Jul 19 04:22
seller_liarbut we need more free software than proprietary software in a proportion of 80-20Jul 19 04:22
oiaohmI set no percentages.Jul 19 04:22
oiaohmIf 100 percent proprietary using company can interface with a 100 percent open source using company without issues I would be happy.Jul 19 04:23
oiaohmThen people can freely choose the tools they want to use.Jul 19 04:24
Aondonon freesoftware will probably lag behind unless the adept to a faster moving communityJul 19 04:24
oiaohmI am about freedom in  real meaning of the word.Jul 19 04:25
oiaohmAnything that is restricting a persons freedom to make selections is not good.Jul 19 04:25
Aondooiaohm, i find it quite ironic that in the "land of the free" people needs to be reminded that free software means freedomJul 19 04:26
oiaohmNot exactly.Jul 19 04:26
oiaohmOpen standards without restrictions of like patents.   Gives freedom.Jul 19 04:27
tessierschestowitz: /home is 99% fullJul 19 04:27
oiaohmFree software without open standards can be basically useless.Jul 19 04:27
oiaohmDefacto standards is one of the biggest undermines to freedom.Jul 19 04:28
Aondoatleast i hope my bed is free at this hour. and not takenJul 19 04:28
Aondooiaohm, agreed, but isnt that kind of standard maybe not becaus it was there firstJul 19 04:29
oiaohm.doc defecto standard for word processing was not the first document format.Jul 19 04:30
tessierWord Perfect was quite popular in business before MS Word. It was the first de-facto word processor document format.Jul 19 04:31
cubezzzno one remembers wordstar? :)Jul 19 04:31
oiaohmMost defacto standards are not documented .Jul 19 04:31
tessierI doJul 19 04:31
oiaohmSo other people cannot created competing programs that work perfectly.Jul 19 04:31
Aondomaybe "first" is the wrong way to put it heheJul 19 04:31
oiaohmPDF is an example of a true standard.Jul 19 04:32
oiaohmAdobe released all the information to make clone programs.Jul 19 04:32
tessierCan we now use the PDF's with form fields and everything in them?Jul 19 04:32
oiaohmReason why Linux has like 6 different pdf readers.Jul 19 04:32
oiaohmPDF format is fully openly documented tessierJul 19 04:32
tessierSo the answer is yes?Jul 19 04:33
oiaohmYep.Jul 19 04:33
oiaohmCatch is very few programs implement all the features PDF offers.Jul 19 04:33
tessierCool. It is a common enough ploy to release specs from one version ago but make the current software use the new format.Jul 19 04:33
tessierSo they can say they opened up the standard but not lose their sales.Jul 19 04:34
oiaohmAdobe when they do it they do it right.Jul 19 04:34
oiaohmEvery new version causes new docs to be released if they are doing a open standard.Jul 19 04:34
tessierCoolJul 19 04:34
oiaohmReason Adobe wanted archives on side.Jul 19 04:34
oiaohmSun and Adobe both have released standard correctly.Jul 19 04:35
Aondodidnt okolar get some opposition becaus they follows the pdf format to allow drm?Jul 19 04:35
Aondoi think it is a interesting situation, beeing against drm, but for open standards :DJul 19 04:37
oiaohmUsing pdf spec sheets you have to agree not to break copy protection method included.Jul 19 04:37
oiaohmReally cheep price for patent protection from adobe on your implementation.Jul 19 04:38
Aondoi guess the situation would not be so interesting, if everyone was for sharing information. wouldnt really need copy protection then.Jul 19 04:39
schestowitztessier: oopsJul 19 04:39
schestowitzI'll delete many backupsJul 19 04:40
oiaohmBusiness need secrets AondoJul 19 04:41
schestowitztessier: OK now?Jul 19 04:41
tessierGPG is for secretsJul 19 04:41
schestowitzI'd delete more if neededJul 19 04:42
tessierschestowitz: Yep! Looks good.Jul 19 04:42
tessierNot that I need the disk space, I just don't want it to cause the site an error if it reaches 100%Jul 19 04:42
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LeftyWell, hi.Jul 19 05:51
LeftyI see Roy's doesn't like playing catcher.Jul 19 05:52
Edgar...Jul 19 05:53
Edgar:/ Microsoft has a patent on double clicking, and sudo...Jul 19 05:53
LeftyYou folks enjoy this place while yo can.Jul 19 05:53
EdgarWTF?Jul 19 05:53
LeftyRoy's made charges of criminal activity against my employer, I doubt they're going to like that much.Jul 19 05:54
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LeftyIt's too bad he doesn't have a lawyer, he could really use one.Jul 19 05:54
ThistleWebLefty: thanksJul 19 05:55
LeftyHappy to help. =DJul 19 05:55
ThistleWebI'm just in the mood to have a laugh at some tosserJul 19 05:55
ThistleWebit's almost like you heard my pleaJul 19 05:55
LeftyLaugh it up. Roy knows I'm not kidding around.Jul 19 05:55
ThistleWeband arrived to answer the callJul 19 05:55
LeftyHe's already admitted to libeling me.Jul 19 05:55
ThistleWebwe're giving you the respect you deserveJul 19 05:55
LeftyPosted a full retraction and an apology, did he tell you _that_?Jul 19 05:55
LeftyI only care about respect from people _I_ respect.Jul 19 05:56
ThistleWeblolJul 19 05:56
ThistleWebfunny thatJul 19 05:56
Muttleyso how do you register to leave comments on the site?Jul 19 05:57
LeftyAny of you folks go to GCDS...?Jul 19 05:57
LeftyYou can't apparently, it seems to be half-broken. I've got no problem at all with registering.Jul 19 05:57
ThistleWebI wonder how many hours astroturfing overtime Lefty will put in talking in this channel is nobody responds to himJul 19 05:57
LeftyAww. :'(Jul 19 05:58
LeftyAre you sticking your fingers in your ears, going "Lalalalalalala"?Jul 19 05:58
oiaohmBasically yes.Jul 19 05:58
LeftyBelieve me, I don't get paid for this. Roy volunteered to be my hobby.Jul 19 05:59
Muttleyjust wanted to point out that Banshee and F-Spot wont depend on moonlightJul 19 05:59
LeftyKnock yourselves out.Jul 19 05:59
LeftyHow's that gonna work, Muttley?Jul 19 05:59
ThistleWeb"believe me" and you work for MS yes?Jul 19 05:59
MuttleyLefty: how do you mean?Jul 19 06:00
ThistleWebthe mafia have more honour than MSJul 19 06:00
LeftyAaron's clearly not taking Mono out of Banshee. Since you folks don't go to conferences, and don't know folks like Aaron, you're pretty much in the dark, aren't you?Jul 19 06:00
ThistleWebI'd believe them before I'd believe MSJul 19 06:00
LeftyDo you guys check under the bed for Microsoft before you can go to sleep?Jul 19 06:00
MuttleyLefty: eh?Jul 19 06:00
LeftyOh, Moonlight. Sorry, Muttley, thought I saw "Mono".Jul 19 06:01
oiaohmI have been around too long.  I have seen the java media players and torrent download programs come and go.Jul 19 06:01
Muttleyis this knee jerk reaction channel or something?Jul 19 06:01
oiaohmBanshee and F-Spot will go the same path.Jul 19 06:01
LeftyI don't think ThistleWeb has ever actually met anyone from the Mafia.Jul 19 06:01 has not cured the defects in java design.Jul 19 06:02
Muttleyoiaohm: I was just commenting on a quote from the website that was taken from someone who was quite wrongJul 19 06:02
LeftyDid you just have a knee-jerk reaction, Muttley...?Jul 19 06:02
oiaohmSands of time are moving on.Jul 19 06:03
MuttleyLefty: seems that no matter what I say I get pounced on by either side of the fence ;)Jul 19 06:03
oiaohmThat is what is wrong with MS bottom line at the moment.Jul 19 06:03
LeftyIt's the Internet. That's how it works.Jul 19 06:03
MuttleyyeahJul 19 06:03
oiaohmI remember when Visual basic was ment to be the savour to programming.Jul 19 06:05
LeftyBASIC is an ugly language.Jul 19 06:06
oiaohmAfter a while it becomes simple to spot what languages truly do have staying power and what ones are just a temporarly distubance.Jul 19 06:06
oiaohmSo is .netJul 19 06:06
Muttleyare you applying for the job of old wise man?Jul 19 06:07
oiaohmThe job I have is because I am basically that.Jul 19 06:07
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oiaohmI have seen enough of computer history to pick the paths that will last.Jul 19 06:08
Muttleyyou a cobol programmer? ;)Jul 19 06:08
oiaohmNever was.Jul 19 06:08
oiaohmSame error as cobol as well does .net have.Jul 19 06:09
oiaohmThe more you create a language split away from the OS it running on the worse its performance becomes.Jul 19 06:10
oiaohmIts a simple case that people are repeating the mistakes of history.Jul 19 06:13
oiaohmFunny thing is going to be that the next version of MS office is going to have a online version ad funded.Jul 19 06:24
oiaohmThat could cause a nasty problem why buy MS office when you can test if document renders right on line.Jul 19 06:24
MuttleyI'd imagine they'd still make a lot of money from businessesJul 19 06:25
oiaohmThinking if the forcasts are right 2010 are going to be another shocker as a nother 10 trillion dollars disappears out the system.Jul 19 06:27
oiaohmBusinesses most likely will be looking to take the cheepest path.Jul 19 06:28
oiaohmStick with what they have and use the online tool for conversion.Jul 19 06:28
oiaohmThat is what is so fun at the moment.  The worse of the storm cause by all the bad debts out there has not even hit yet.Jul 19 06:32
Muttleyunfortuantely I've known a number of people in control of the IT budget who seem to think that you always must have the "latest and greatest" no matter how much advice he ignores from his employeesJul 19 06:33
Muttleyat my last job getting anything for my php team was always a struggle. but the .NET team had insane amounts of money thrown at itJul 19 06:33
oiaohmAnd I know many of them who have ended up out of business recently to there shock horrior.Jul 19 06:34
Muttleyyeah, that company had to close down the IT department in the UK and off shore it to SAJul 19 06:34
Muttleythough they did keep the managerJul 19 06:34
oiaohmMy job is basically building solutions to cost and maintainable.Jul 19 06:34
Muttleyhe got moved over the SA to manage the new IT departmentJul 19 06:35
Muttleywhich is why they now have they php website running off an ISS serverJul 19 06:35
oiaohmO well.Jul 19 06:35
oiaohmTime will catch up with him.Jul 19 06:36
Muttleyunfortuantely the company makes quite a bit of cash so he'll get to continue throwing it away for a while longerJul 19 06:36
Muttleybut I don't mindJul 19 06:37
Muttleymy replacement quit and so they offered me a freelance job to do php stuff and a ridiculous rateJul 19 06:37
Muttleyso I get to sit on a beach in malaysia earning more money an hour than I did when I sat in an office in LondonJul 19 06:38
oiaohmSee time looked after you.Jul 19 06:39
oiaohmPeople who do the right things normally get looked after in the end.Jul 19 06:40
Muttleybut if he'd taken my advice I'd be worse off today ;)Jul 19 06:43
Muttleyis that Karma?Jul 19 06:43
Muttley:)Jul 19 06:43
oiaohmNot really.Jul 19 06:44
oiaohmYou might have ended up premoted.Jul 19 06:44
oiaohmTelling what would have happened of someone did something different is hard.Jul 19 06:44
Muttleyonly place I could go from the position I had was to become a project manager and I like coding too muchJul 19 06:45
oiaohmThey company could have grown as well more due to less overheads.Jul 19 06:46
oiaohmThis is why its very had to tell MuttleyJul 19 06:47
Muttleywell we were growing, the trouble is the government made one of our cash cows illegalJul 19 06:50
Muttleymanagement collectively shat themselves and in a huge knee jerk reaction closed down 4 departments and sent them back to South AfricaJul 19 06:51
Muttleystupid thing is the next year the government eased the restrictionsJul 19 06:51
oiaohmThat is the problem with cash cows.  Most of them end up with goverments messing with them.Jul 19 06:51
oiaohmMost of my job is creating stuff that does not cause huge profit but is repeatable profit.   Custom hardware Custom software combinations....Jul 19 06:53
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MuttleycoolJul 19 06:59
twitter***twitter notices and ignores Lefty trollJul 19 06:59
Muttley***Muttley notices twitter and laughs ;)Jul 19 06:59
Muttleyoiaohm: I gotta get back to a proper job once I finish bumming around asiaJul 19 07:00
twitterGuy is a M$ user.  Lefty is supposed to be a Mac user.  Sheesh, trolls pretending to be other trolls.Jul 19 07:00
oiaohmIts the internet twitterJul 19 07:02
oiaohmAnyone can be anyone.Jul 19 07:02
MuttleyI'm Spartacus!Jul 19 07:02
HivenGlavenwhats a troll ?Jul 19 07:03
ThistleWebtonight Mathew I'd like to be the Sugar Plum FairyJul 19 07:04
oiaohmHeck you see trolls pretending to be royJul 19 07:04
MuttleyHivenGlaven: anyone who you don't agree withJul 19 07:04
HivenGlavenI thought by twitters comment it was a mac or M$ userJul 19 07:04
twitter 19 07:05
oiaohmI am a little tigher on term that that.Jul 19 07:06
oiaohmtroll is someone who always turns up to cause trouble and changes the ID to make there argument look better.Jul 19 07:06
ThistleWebthere are peeps who seem to have trolls on the mind, and are always just a sentence away from accusing someoneJul 19 07:06
oiaohmOr to hide the fact they are only turning up to cause trouble.Jul 19 07:06
twitter 19 07:07
HivenGlavenby that definition no one here is a troll. but whatever.Jul 19 07:08
Muttleydo people really say "OH PULEEEZE!" ?Jul 19 07:08
twitter 19 07:10
twitter 19 07:10
oiaohmYes we have had some that do say that line MuttleyJul 19 07:13
twitter 19 07:13
HivenGlavenin 1970 they used to say that !!Jul 19 07:13
oiaohmOnly 3 months ago by the way MuttleyJul 19 07:14
Diablo-D3eh, more like the 80sJul 19 07:14
Muttleyoiaohm: fair enoughJul 19 07:14
Muttleynext they'll be saying "Talk to the hand!" and "Whateva!" :)Jul 19 07:14
oiaohmWhateva was once in the last month.Jul 19 07:15
oiaohmI have not see Talk to the hand yet.Jul 19 07:15
Diablo-D3ooh, I wonder if fake tatoos are en vogue againJul 19 07:15
Diablo-D3actually, I wonder if saying en vogue is en vogue againJul 19 07:15
twitter  OMG, OMG, it's rape!Jul 19 07:16
MuttleyDiablo-D3: I had a henna tattoo last week, does that count?Jul 19 07:16
oiaohmThat is the other thing about trolls lot of them try to take termlogy to try to blend in.  Problem is its normally completely out of date and just looks strange.Jul 19 07:17
Diablo-D3I guess if I wait long enough everything comes back inJul 19 07:17
HivenGlavendid you get it in a gum pack, did you have to lick it and press it onto your arm ?Jul 19 07:17
Diablo-D3like, TMNT are back inJul 19 07:17
Diablo-D3they're using the old 80s molds for the toysJul 19 07:17
Diablo-D3(the same ones I owned as a kid)Jul 19 07:17
MuttleyDiablo-D3: I'm waiting for the day i can dust off those flares ;)Jul 19 07:17
Diablo-D3and they're making that gi joe movieJul 19 07:17
HivenGlavendont forget the safari suitJul 19 07:18
MuttleyDiablo-D3: yeah, since transformers every 80s toy is getting a movieJul 19 07:18
Diablo-D3transformers kinda sucks nowJul 19 07:18
Diablo-D3they've _been_ printing the old molds foreverJul 19 07:18
MuttleyI'm waiting my My Little Pony 2: Revenge of the Sugar CubeJul 19 07:18
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Diablo-D3some they cant print anymore because they destroyed the mold through overuse and dont have a replicaJul 19 07:18
twitter 19 07:19
Diablo-D3(some later issues of said toys you can really tell they should have stopped, especially with heads)Jul 19 07:19
twitter 19 07:19
twitternot a press on.Jul 19 07:19
Muttleytwitter: that guy with the zune one looks quite ashamedJul 19 07:19
Diablo-D3the only thing that sucks is the new transformers for the movieJul 19 07:20
Diablo-D3they're... not transformersJul 19 07:20
Diablo-D3they'd actually be better off as expensive statues stuck in an action poseJul 19 07:20
Diablo-D3(which they have too)Jul 19 07:20
oiaohmThe more you look for history repeating the more you see it.Jul 19 07:21
Diablo-D3see, what we need is a saturday day cartoonJul 19 07:21
Diablo-D3about FOSS peopleJul 19 07:21
Diablo-D3with some sort of power rangers tie inJul 19 07:21
Diablo-D3RMS can be the green rangerJul 19 07:21
Diablo-D3where he promotes legal pot usageJul 19 07:21
Diablo-D3s/saturday day/saturday morning/Jul 19 07:22
Diablo-D3linus can be the red ranger, etc etcJul 19 07:22
Diablo-D3and they take on microsoft every weekJul 19 07:22
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Diablo-D3and their giant robot recieves upgrades via them coding out new shitJul 19 07:23
Diablo-D3eventually, by the end of the series, it turns into some insane monster that eventually destroys the world x_xJul 19 07:23
Diablo-D3moral of the story: dont let them near giant robotsJul 19 07:24
oiaohmThat is kinda too late.Jul 19 07:24
Diablo-D3kids dont watch saturday morning cartoons anymoreJul 19 07:27
Diablo-D3I wonder when that endedJul 19 07:27
Diablo-D3not only is my childhood dead, they killed it brutallyJul 19 07:28
Diablo-D3and then they piss on it's grave every few yearsJul 19 07:28
HivenGlavenabout the same time as flairs went outJul 19 07:29
HivenGlavenand discoJul 19 07:29
Diablo-D3thats the 70s!Jul 19 07:30
HivenGlavenand when they stopped running the phantom agentsJul 19 07:30
Diablo-D3Im thinking like the late 90sJul 19 07:30
Diablo-D3afternoon cartoons were still strongJul 19 07:30
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Muttleyhmm, wonder if next Zend Studio will support bzrJul 19 07:37
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_Goblinmorning all.....Jul 19 08:31
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ziggyfishgood afternoon allJul 19 08:42
ziggyfishquick question, has MS released their Q4 financial reports yet?Jul 19 08:43
ziggyfishwill be interesting to see the numbersJul 19 08:44
oiaohmNot yet ziggyfishJul 19 08:46
ziggyfishfound the answer to my next question <>Jul 19 08:47
ziggyfishwhen will theyJul 19 08:48
ziggyfishQ4 – Thursday, July 23Jul 19 08:48
oiaohmYep should be this week if its not shocking bad.Jul 19 08:49
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ziggyfishI think it will be (seen the numbers from the Q1-3)Jul 19 08:50
ziggyfish 19 08:53
schestowitzMorning...Jul 19 08:55
schestowitzI see that David's hereJul 19 08:56
schestowitzYo, DavidJul 19 08:56
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Listening to FLOSS weekly ep 77 19 09:13
notzedmorning.  i presume the new registration stuff isn't completley functional yet?Jul 19 09:14
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Muttleyheh, chinese whispers are greatJul 19 09:20
Muttley"Banshee and F-Spot to depend on Moonlight"Jul 19 09:20
Muttleynot quite :)Jul 19 09:21
schestowitzNot reallyJul 19 09:21
schestowitzThey reuse code AFAIKJul 19 09:21
schestowitzMedia controlsJul 19 09:22
schestowitzIt's indicative of convergenceJul 19 09:22
Muttleyf-spot will depend on bansheeJul 19 09:22
schestowitzFor example, Banshee can be made to have a feature of playing Silverlight content offlineJul 19 09:22
schestowitzWhich in turn means Microsoft codecs and other non-ECMA stuff...not to mention API concessionsJul 19 09:22
Muttleythat's not depending thoughJul 19 09:22
schestowitzMuttley: really?Jul 19 09:23
schestowitzAny link about that?Jul 19 09:23
Muttley 19 09:23
schestowitzThat would force Ubuntu, for example, to adopt more Mono applications with non-ECMA stuffJul 19 09:23
Muttleythat's the pdf that was read by mono-nono and reported, then was rereported by 19 09:24
schestowitz 19 09:24
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Muttleyin reality banshe is becoming a platform with client UIs.Jul 19 09:24
Muttleythey are planning a moonlight based UIJul 19 09:24
Muttleythen they're going to put photo management into the banshee platform so that f-spot becomes a client ui and can focus more on the image manipulation aspects over image managementJul 19 09:26
Muttleywhich as an f-spot and banshee user I kinda likeJul 19 09:26
Muttleywonder if that means they'll do a totem client for itJul 19 09:27
Muttleythough I'm all for "managing" my photos and music but I've never really got into doing it for videosJul 19 09:28
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MuttleyI think because I tend to delete videos when I've watched them rather than keeping a big libraryJul 19 09:29
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EdgarHmmJul 19 09:31
schestowitzHey, Edgar Jul 19 09:36
schestowitzWhat's up?Jul 19 09:36
schestowitzI'm doing COmes at the momentJul 19 09:37
EdgarHmm, just reading the gnome Mono deal on the site...Jul 19 09:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Product Manager: “Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let’s move on and steal the Java language.” 19 09:50
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Microsoft Product Dies as the Company Prepares for Horrible Financial Results 19 10:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Launchpad opensourcing delayed It has taken them years already. But they support AGPLv3 IIRCJul 19 10:47
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schestowitzOops.  I hadn't realised registration was disabled in BN. Try now (For creating an account) 19 11:11
oiaohmNice upgrade opps..Jul 19 11:12
schestowitzNopeJul 19 11:13
schestowitzWe used to have spam registrations, so I disabled it like a year agoJul 19 11:13
schestowitzNow that I set it to require login to comment I didn't think registration was disabledJul 19 11:13
oiaohmIts still a opps.Jul 19 11:14
oiaohmNo where as bad as forgetting to start squid with all web traffic routed to it.Jul 19 11:14
schestowitzMedia Wiki svn still not working right (downtimes for downloads).. Jul 19 11:16
schestowitzI ought to post some Linux news. Not much news in general this week...Jul 19 11:16
*amarsh04_ finally managed to get ipv6 workingJul 19 11:17
schestowitzamarsh04: it must be hard. 80,000 MS employees can't do it (like the lightbulb thing)Jul 19 11:17
amarsh04_linux for aircraft: 19 11:19
amarsh04_my isp is fairly ipv6-savvy: 19 11:21
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why a GNU/Linux Revolution is 'Dangerous' 19 11:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's Entry into Desktop GNU/Linux Market Can Affect Businesses 19 11:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Illustration of the Ease of GNU/Linux Printing 19 11:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mesa 7.5 is Released 19 11:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wne 1.1.26 is Released 19 11:44
fewa1 thing, Google's OS might actually not be GNU/LinuxJul 19 11:50
fewaits might be Android/LinuxJul 19 11:50
fewawith their own wierd libc and suchJul 19 11:50
schestowitzYesJul 19 11:52
schestowitzLinux kernelJul 19 11:52
schestowitzGPLv2Jul 19 11:52
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_Hicham_Hi oiaohmJul 19 11:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE Offers iTunes Replacement to Palm Pre Users ttp:// 19 11:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of Wolvix 2.0 (Secon Beta) 19 12:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu Christian Edition 5.0 and Ubuntu 8.04.3 Are Released 19 12:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Palm Gets the Needed Lift from Linux, SDK Coming 19 12:06
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schestowitzHi, jose Jul 19 12:08
joseschestowitz, hi.. why are comments disabled?Jul 19 12:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Quick Review of the GNU/Linux-based Jolicloud OS 19 12:09
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schestowitzjose: not disabledJul 19 12:10
schestowitzYou just need to create a user account on the siteJul 19 12:10
schestowitzThen you can also comment quickltJul 19 12:10
joseYou must be logged in to post a commentJul 19 12:10
schestowitzThere was a flood of trollsJul 19 12:10
joseok, .. i thought i created an account by my email is not registered.. i'll repeatJul 19 12:11
schestowitzIncluding the anti-BN sites gaming and flooding it with rubbish on purposeJul 19 12:11
schestowitzThe trolling not only ruined the comments sections but the trolling also slowed down the siteJul 19 12:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More On-board Linux Partnerships 19 12:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Quits the ARM Race Before It's Even Released 19 12:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] NPR Chooses Free Software 19 12:17
fewathats whole article is full of MS confusing WIndows and "PC"Jul 19 12:19
fewaon purposeJul 19 12:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vanity Stickers for GNU/Linux and Free Software 19 12:19
schestowitzPC=windows, no? :-)Jul 19 12:19
schestowitzYou go the shop and WIndows is part of all the computersJul 19 12:19
Muttleyarg, stupid watchguard piece of crapJul 19 12:20
schestowitzAnd if Linux is sold in Wal-mart, then like a mafia-gangster operating, Microsott pressurebullies them (document)Jul 19 12:20
fewaits trying to change history to make it seem like tying is OKJul 19 12:20
Muttley2 hours of bashing my head against the wall as to why I couldn't access the wordpress svn serverJul 19 12:20
schestowitzfewa: if users are left choiceJul 19 12:20
schestowitzfewa: the svn at mediawiki is still downJul 19 12:21
schestowitzMuttley: maybe related?Jul 19 12:21
schestowitzsvn server at mediawiki down since yesterday morningJul 19 12:21
Muttleyschestowitz: nah, because I just logged off of the company vpn and it worked fineJul 19 12:22
MuttleyI stuck one of the more obscure error messages into google and got 3 pages, one with a guy saying the watchguard box he has blocked svn over http for some reasonJul 19 12:22
Muttleythat's a pitaJul 19 12:23
Muttleywonder if I can come up with a work related reason why I need that unblockedJul 19 12:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Research organisation National ICT Australia Releases Free Software 19 12:25
Muttleyahh, seems to be the PROPFIND http request type it doens't likeJul 19 12:27
Muttleybecause it's not in HTTP 1.1 RFC 2616 spec. damn these people and their standards ;)Jul 19 12:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox About to Exceed 1,000,000,000 Downloads 19 12:30
fewaughh ping has to use http meta redirections instead of doing it the right way with 301 moved temporarilyJul 19 12:31
fewait it cause they want to extract information off of your browser?Jul 19 12:31
fewanahJul 19 12:32
fewathey must just be not thinkingJul 19 12:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Interview with MariaDB Founder (the New Better MySQL) 19 12:32
fewaor maybe this way it shows up in http referel logsJul 19 12:32
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Tallkendoes anyone know who is the Twitter account "wd7", alias windows7 ?Jul 19 12:35
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schestowitzI don't knowJul 19 13:03
schestowitzCould be many thingJul 19 13:03
schestowitzW-E, TE, usefulidiotsJul 19 13:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Swindle Shows the Harms of DRM 19 13:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Associated Press Shows Its Sheer Hypocrisy 19 13:10
Tallkenhe subscribed after I mentioned I might put Windows in a VM and use Linux as sole OS xDJul 19 13:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono -- Like Microsoft -- Resorts to Gagging Critics 19 13:19
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oiaohmNicta has a good video but I have no way to get it as ogg.Jul 19 13:39
schestowitzYeah... well, they tryJul 19 13:43
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joseinteresting the cricket AP misuseJul 19 13:54
schestowitzThis is funny. Using the big bang to market religion... craft deception.. 19 13:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] personally I think of librarians as quiet unassuming rabid perverts, but maybe that's just me 19 13:59
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fewa"Reason three: Opt-out is not acceptableJul 19 14:18
fewa“Opt-out” is not the equal opposite of “opt-in”. Anyone who suggests that is trying to sell you something. “Just opt-out if you don’t like it” is the argument of telemarketers and spammers the world over. Team Mono is trying to put users of other distributions in the “opt-out” position, and that is not right.Jul 19 14:18
fewaThose same people who would figuratively spit on a spammer for using the “opt-out” argument will gladly turn around and tell you “It’s easy to remove mono if you don’t like it, so just shut up”, and never see the contradiction.Jul 19 14:18
fewaConsider this: I am not opposed to the very idea of inclusion of mono and mono apps in the repositories."Jul 19 14:18
oiaohmConsider this lot of people would prefer not to have mono by default.Jul 19 14:19
fewathats the most important thing in the whole debateJul 19 14:20
oiaohmOnce you have installed it you might be caught up in libablity from it.Jul 19 14:20
oiaohmAnything that is questionable state should have a option of user not having it.Jul 19 14:21
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oiaohmMS does it with a lot of codecs.Jul 19 14:21
_Hicham_we need codecs too in LinuxJul 19 14:22
_Hicham_and thanks to GStreamer, we can have legal codecsJul 19 14:22
_Hicham_and illegal ones alsoJul 19 14:23
oiaohmUser deserves the right to choose anything risky.Jul 19 14:23
oiaohmAlso deserves the right not to have it pushed on them.Jul 19 14:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the awful truth about mothers and coffee it's all true! it's all true!Jul 19 14:24
_Hicham_what i want to see is some apps for linux developed by microsoftJul 19 14:30
_Hicham_for example, Internet Explorer for LinuxJul 19 14:31
_Hicham_it is not that hard since there is Internet Explorer for MacJul 19 14:31
_Hicham_also Microsoft Office for LinuxJul 19 14:31
_Hicham_without EmulationJul 19 14:31
_Hicham_and from Microsoft websiteJul 19 14:31
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_Hicham_set up in online repositoriesJul 19 14:32
_Hicham_and following GNU guidelinesJul 19 14:32
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_Hicham_that would be a big victory for linuxJul 19 14:32
desui'd still not touch those things even with a 9001 meter long pole.Jul 19 14:32
Diablo-D3its over nine thousand!Jul 19 14:33
desumicrosoft doing stuff for linux would be too suspicious...Jul 19 14:33
*desu slaps Diablo-D3 8999 timesJul 19 14:33
desuunder nine tousand :PJul 19 14:33
desu*thousandJul 19 14:33
Diablo-D3 19 14:41
HivenGlavendavidgerard are you saying to give up coffee or to give up sex :(Jul 19 14:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] software is not "engineered", it's "craftsmanship"; control is ultimately illusory on software development projects. 19 14:46
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splosiongosh. Pete's going to get flames for this one 19 15:06
trmanco 19 15:10
trmanco,1000000567,10013233o-2000440676b,00.htmJul 19 15:13
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Ukraine’s GNU/Linux Ambitions and Microsoft’s MOU Response 19 15:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ubuntu 9.04 Snaps Desktop Visaster: 19 15:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Amazon says it won't repeat Kindle book recall: 19 15:15
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] now your car can take the piss: 19 15:22
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Microsoft Popfly - RIP.....Another #Microsoft product bites the dust. I wonder if Redmond is looking forward to Thursday and its Q4 figures?Jul 19 15:30
fewayoutube has started redirecting to login prompts when they decide you are not giving them enough informationJul 19 15:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Still testing #!CBL 9.04.01 - giving it the family test, lets see what damage they can do to the distro. #linuxJul 19 15:36
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schestowitz_goblin is being harsh. Oh hum...Jul 19 15:42
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schestowitzwallclimber: I might do the next exhibit in the evening. We got to the point where I've almost finished one important set of docs.Jul 19 15:58
wallclimbergood morning!Jul 19 15:59
wallclimberHow many more sets are there?Jul 19 15:59
wallclimberthat need working on, that isJul 19 16:00
schestowitzYes..Jul 19 16:00
schestowitzHold on...Jul 19 16:00
schestowitzHeh. I think I showed you this one: :-DJul 19 16:01
schestowitzIt's the XP launchJul 19 16:01
schestowitzBut nothing good in there. Just worth filing sensibly for indexing purposesJul 19 16:01
schestowitzActually, I'll do so nowJul 19 16:01
LeftyHi, Roy!Jul 19 16:05
schestowitzHey David.Jul 19 16:05
schestowitzwallclimber: stil cleaning up a bitJul 19 16:05
LeftySo, you do understand that as a director of ACCESS and a member of the LiMo ASC I have to bring your charges to the attention of their respective legal departments tomorrow.Jul 19 16:06
wallclimberI wonder why it was part of the exhibits...wouldn't all of the exhibits be there due to discovery requests during the law suit?Jul 19 16:06
LeftyI don't know whether you know that, having pre-emptively made the claim--you did, you know--you've abandoned your right to prior discovery....Jul 19 16:07
schestowitzwallclimber: see 19 16:07
schestowitzIt's part of a short seriesJul 19 16:07
LeftyAt least until you produce the cogent and persuasive evidence already in your possession.Jul 19 16:07
schestowitzAlso this and this 19 16:07
schestowitzThese basically show that bundling was done to harm DR-DOSJul 19 16:08
LeftySoooo....ya _got_ some evidence, Roy?Jul 19 16:08
schestowitzI have some notes laid out, but not the fuill text yetJul 19 16:08
LeftyFrivolous charges on criminality, tsk, tsk.Jul 19 16:08
Lefty_Did_ you ever happen to take a course in Journalistic Ethics?Jul 19 16:09
wallclimberis there anything that needs transcribing?Jul 19 16:09
LeftyI think it's a big story, submit it to Datamation, see what they say?Jul 19 16:09
Lefty("Are you nuts?")Jul 19 16:09
schestowitzwallclimber: yes, 3 of themJul 19 16:09
Lefty=DJul 19 16:09
schestowitzAs barebone evidence they speak a lotJul 19 16:09
schestowitzThen we can explain about themJul 19 16:09
LeftyOh, and you're aware--I posted a comment--that your claim that I libeled you is based on a posting made by someone else.Jul 19 16:10
wallclimberso i should work on these: 0980, 0928, and 0982Jul 19 16:10
wallclimber: )Jul 19 16:10
LeftyI don't think that's going to be of much help to you. I've got my own ID on Digg and I don't use Reddit at all.Jul 19 16:11
LeftyGiven Roy's recent lapses in judgement, and his tendency to edit IRC logs--"scummy man", right, Roy?--I feel the need to keep an eye on you hyenas.Jul 19 16:12
LeftyGet nused to it.Jul 19 16:12
*ydkj (i=5496de5f@gateway/web/freenode/x-bb40cc79bcd7c42b) has joined #boycottnovellJul 19 16:12
schestowitzwallclimber: ayeJul 19 16:12
wallclimberokay!Jul 19 16:13
LeftyAnd you're going to tell us all when the FTC stamps "Ridiculous" on that complaint, right?Jul 19 16:13
LeftyHave you ever actually _read_ the "atroturfing law"? Do you understand it?Jul 19 16:14
LeftyFor example, what "competitive products" has Jonathan Wong "vilified"?Jul 19 16:14
Lefty(Don't you think just ignoring me might make people wonder whether you have an answer at all?)Jul 19 16:15
LeftyI'm gonna head out to Jono Bacon's Community Leadership summit in a while, but I can hang with you guys for a bit.Jul 19 16:15
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LeftyYou know who Jono is, Roy?Jul 19 16:16
LeftyHow come _you_ didn't get invited to CLS? You're a "community leader", arencha?Jul 19 16:16
Lefty=DJul 19 16:16
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here is a show of how GNU/Linux harmed Microsoft profits 19 16:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another report on another Linux-incompatible product from Microsoft getting the axe. 19 16:19
Muttleysurely it's not GNU/Linux that harmed their profits but cheap netbooksJul 19 16:20
LeftyHere's a link showing Roy's a bald-faced liar: 19 16:20
Muttleyit forced them to sell cheap XP, and cut massively into their sales of their more profitable OS versionsJul 19 16:20
twitterThere's a lot of strange stuff about the XP launch.Jul 19 16:21
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LeftyHere's a thread showing cola doesn't think much of Roy: 19 16:22
LeftyI agree, by the way.Jul 19 16:22
twitterMy perspective on "disaster capitalism" was fundamentally altered by Hurricane Katrina.  M$ made efforts to suppress the use of free software, which could have actually helped people, and the Red Cross and Federal use of Windoze was a mess that slowed things down.Jul 19 16:23
LeftyYou're blaming the issues around the Katrina recovery on Microsoft?Jul 19 16:24
LeftyNot on the NOLA authorities who knew 25 years before that the levies were inadequate, and who spent money allocated to improve them on studies of casinos...?Jul 19 16:24
LeftyWow.Jul 19 16:24
trmancothat's a trollJul 19 16:24
LeftyYou guys _do_ see Microsoft under the bed.Jul 19 16:25
LeftyWhat's it like to live in this sort of incessant terror? I'm curious.Jul 19 16:25
twitterIn the immediate aftermath, the city was locked up and help was turned away.  Supplies were stolen by the feds and reallocated as they pleased.  Fuel which had been ordered by hospitals, for example, was taken to power up other things and people died.Jul 19 16:25
LeftyI'm not a troll, trmanco.Jul 19 16:25
trmanconot youJul 19 16:25
LeftyYep, very poor CCC.Jul 19 16:25
trmancothe post you linked toJul 19 16:26
trmancomoshe golfarb is the flatfish trollJul 19 16:26
LeftyThey coul've improved that _if they'd spent the money they already had the way it was supposed to be spent rather than wasting it on a bunch of irrelevant studies_.Jul 19 16:26
twitter***twitter is unaware of the link because he's ignoring the person who made it.Jul 19 16:26
LeftyWell, Roy's the "Boycott Novell" troll, fair's fair.Jul 19 16:27
trmanco 19 16:27
LeftyAw, Willy's _chicken_.Jul 19 16:27
twitterickJul 19 16:27
twitterthanks for sharing, I think.Jul 19 16:27
LeftyAfraid of getting into an actual _argument_, Willy?Jul 19 16:27
LeftyI know you're ill-equipped, but I can explain to you how I'm vivisecting you as we go, if you like.Jul 19 16:27
LeftyYou want to tell me I'm a "crypto Mono supporter"?Jul 19 16:28
LeftyRoy says you're wrong.Jul 19 16:28
LeftyWant to call me a troll?Jul 19 16:28
LeftyShane (whom I respect infinitely more than Roy, literally) disagrees.Jul 19 16:28
LeftyHe smacked down Roy.Jul 19 16:29
Lefty=DJul 19 16:29
LeftyI bet that stung, huh, Roy?Jul 19 16:29
LeftyShane agrees with me "more often than not".Jul 19 16:29
LeftyOw.Jul 19 16:29
LeftyMaybe Shane's a troll, too.Jul 19 16:29
LeftyCome on, Willy, want to go a round?Jul 19 16:30
LeftyI won't hurt you much.Jul 19 16:30
Lefty=DJul 19 16:30
LeftyMaybe there's fifty of me doing this, too, huh, Roy?Jul 19 16:30
LeftyBy the way, the site is dog-slow since you "upgraded" it.Jul 19 16:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft is in good hands 19 16:31
LeftyI think you misconfigured something.Jul 19 16:31
LeftyHey, Roy, is this true?Jul 19 16:37
twitterThe amazing lies told at the launch of XP are simply amazing.Jul 19 16:37
Lefty"He was recently found guilty of stealing artwork from other websites and posting them on his site despite the clear and obvious copyright warnings. He has no hesitation in shamelessly stealing the work of others and posting it up on his website as his own in order to try and make a few pennies profit."Jul 19 16:37
twitteramazing, amazing, amazing.Jul 19 16:37
LeftyDid you use artwork that you weren't entitled to?Jul 19 16:37
LeftyI wouldn't want to tell anyone that if it were untrue, Roy.Jul 19 16:37
wallclimbertwitter, I agree.Jul 19 16:37
twitterThe code changes were relatively minor, as cracking exploits showed.  The same code flaws in XP were also in 98 and 95.Jul 19 16:38
LeftyThe amazing lies told by Roy Schestowitz are simply amazing.Jul 19 16:38
LeftyAmazing, amazing, amazing.Jul 19 16:38
twitterStability, boot time and all those other performance metrics did not change.Jul 19 16:38
LeftyThe egregious lies told by Roy Schestowitz are simply egregious.Jul 19 16:39
twitterIn fact, many were worse.Jul 19 16:39
LeftyEgregious, egregious, egregious.Jul 19 16:39
LeftyRoy, what's the story with that improperly used artwork? Fact? Fiction?Jul 19 16:39
LeftyI can write whoever does that blog for more details, I guess.Jul 19 16:40
twitterThey brag about their useless firewall.Jul 19 16:40
twitterThey brag about dead simple tasks, burning CDs and getting images off cameras.Jul 19 16:41
Muttleyso on oneside we have some speed freak going crazy, and the other it's people talking about the release of a 7 year old OSJul 19 16:42
Muttleyyou guys really go to extremesJul 19 16:42
*ydkj hands Muttley the popcorn ;DJul 19 16:42
Muttleyydkj: thanks :)Jul 19 16:43
LeftySpeed freak, huh, Muttley? Another deep thinker, obviously.Jul 19 16:43
LeftyCome on, Roy, either you did it or you didn't.Jul 19 16:43
Muttleywell you are posting like a kid with ADD after too much cokeJul 19 16:43
LeftyI guess I could report the claim. It's interesting, shows a wanton disregard for other people's copyright....Jul 19 16:44
LeftyThat probably would look nice next to your flagrant disregard for the truth, hm?Jul 19 16:44
wallclimbertwitter: What I found interesting in the XP release interview was how similar the "talk" was to the hype around Windows Vista and Win7 these daysJul 19 16:44
LeftyAm I, Muttley? How so?Jul 19 16:44
twitterIt was the same for every launch.Jul 19 16:44
wallclimbertwitter: the more things change, the more they stay the sameJul 19 16:45
LeftyI think it's more that I'm posting stuff that's inconvenient for you guys, not stuff that's incoherent.Jul 19 16:45
wallclimber: )Jul 19 16:45
LeftySo what exactly do you mean?Jul 19 16:45
MuttleyLefty: I mean that you're posting like a 14 year oldJul 19 16:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How F-spot would force Ubuntu, for example, to adopt more Mono applications with non-ECMA .NET components 19 16:45
Muttley"oh stop ignoring me, LALLALLA"Jul 19 16:45
twitterI don't have the patience to read all 26 pagesJul 19 16:45
LeftyI'm posting like a 14 year old because I'm posting like a 14 year old?Jul 19 16:46
schestowitztwitter: see Vista .launch tooJul 19 16:46
LeftyI was right, you are a deep thinker...Jul 19 16:46
schestowitzAnd prrelude to itJul 19 16:46
schestowitzIdentical, merelyJul 19 16:46
LeftyHey, is that the Chimp?Jul 19 16:46
schestowitzAlso the laptop giftsJul 19 16:46
wallclimbertwitter: i just skimmed it, i laughed when Sting showed up rowards the endJul 19 16:46
twitter 19 16:46
schestowitzAbout 6 months before release the first time aroundJul 19 16:46
LeftyI don't care if you ignore me, Muttley.Jul 19 16:46
schestowitzEdelamn vs W-EJul 19 16:47
schestowitz*EdelmanJul 19 16:47
LeftyI'm just here to keep an eye on alla y'all, like I said...Jul 19 16:47
twitter 19 16:47
MuttleyLefty: dude you posted like 20 lines in a row with no one else talking.Jul 19 16:47
twitterResistance has grown at each launch.Jul 19 16:47
Muttleyyou could have condensed that into 4 lines of reasonable argumentJul 19 16:48
schestowitztwitter: not reallyJul 19 16:48
twitterIt took three or four years for XP to reach 50% of the M$ users.Jul 19 16:48
schestowitzVista is on par with V7Jul 19 16:48
wallclimbertwitter:  Yes, a lot of people have now joined the resistance : )Jul 19 16:48
schestowitzBoth aredescribe as the big win thatwill take overJul 19 16:48
twitterVista will never get there.Jul 19 16:48
schestowitzVista more soJul 19 16:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz wrong link! that's the Ukraine storyJul 19 16:48
schestowitzVista was lauded endlesslytJul 19 16:48
twitterWindows 7 will also fail.Jul 19 16:48
schestowitzTrust me, I spent dozens of hours per week on the subjectJul 19 16:48
schestowitzIn 2006 that isJul 19 16:48
schestowitzSOmetimes it's hard to convey and express level of hypeJul 19 16:49
schestowitzMaybe surveys are one wayJul 19 16:49
twitterThe Windows inevitability myth is over.Jul 19 16:49
schestowitzBut the 'mindshare' was set up such that there WAS NOT QUESTION about VIsta's coming successJul 19 16:49
schestowitzMicrosoft's internal memos claimed otherwiseJul 19 16:49
schestowitzThe marketing budget was a real spree in Jan 2007Jul 19 16:50
schestowitzIt lasted months before REAL PEOPLE became too loud for Microsoft PR to controlJul 19 16:50
schestowitzAnd it showedJul 19 16:50
twitterThey don't have the money for another marketing spree.Jul 19 16:50
schestowitzI did about 500 posts in USENET about VIsta Jul 19 16:50
schestowitzEach containing signs of problems, which I can't remember anymore cause it was over 2 years agoJul 19 16:51
twitterVista is still a mess.Jul 19 16:51
twitterMy little failure log should jog your memory.  :)Jul 19 16:51
LeftyIt's an IRC channel, Muttley, that sort of thing happens all the time.Jul 19 16:52
twitterStarted July 28, 2007Jul 19 16:52
Lefty_you_ weren't talking, what's your gripe?Jul 19 16:52
schestowitzThe difference bwteen VIsta and V7 is also then economyJul 19 16:52
schestowitzVIsta had more flattering surveysJul 19 16:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] David corrected me. Here is the correct link: "New F-Spot/Banshee Ties Pose a Microsoft Patent Threat"Jul 19 16:52
schestowitzIncluding the usual fluff from IDCJul 19 16:52
MuttleyLefty: I just felt you kinda came across as a bit immature and it hurts your credibilityJul 19 16:52
wallclimberI've only met a couple of Vista machines when helping friends, it was pretty, but not very impressive otherwise...I guess if all you want to do is sit and stare at your computer, Vista might be usefulJul 19 16:52
schestowitzThey got nailed for it in the pressJul 19 16:52
twitterVista failed before the economy didJul 19 16:52
LeftyOh, Mr. Editor, this headline is ungrammatical: "So Many Trolls, So Little GNU/Linux Users…"Jul 19 16:52
schestowitzBut for VIsta there was a healthy economyJul 19 16:52
Lefty"Little" is incorrect, you mean "few".Jul 19 16:53
schestowitzUpgrades, new harrdware... caviar.. sushi... bring it on! :-)Jul 19 16:53
schestowitzNow everyone is happy with XP and some dual boot with UbuntuJul 19 16:53
MuttleyLefty: in fact, my original comment was just supposed to be a joke. I expected the anti-mono bunch to get more offended to be honestJul 19 16:53
LeftyWell, Muttley, you come off as having an IQ about the same as the temperature at which a good Cabernet should be served.Jul 19 16:53
LeftyI think that hurts _your_ credibility.Jul 19 16:53
schestowitzHence the need to generate myths about Ubuntu and poison it with SCO-like identical 'IP' like MonoJul 19 16:53
twitterfor some reason, the M$ people also talk about kristal or whatever that silly stuff is.Jul 19 16:54
Muttleywow, that's really stunningJul 19 16:54
schestowitzMicrosoft needsn't sue for monoJul 19 16:54
schestowitzIt just point at it and says, "pay up, it's a copy of .NET"Jul 19 16:54
LeftyYou strike me as easy to stun, honestly.Jul 19 16:54
schestowitzSamba had the EU commission, Piana and SFLC intervene to change itJul 19 16:54
Leftywho, exactly, are they telling to "pay up", Roy?Jul 19 16:54
twitterI cringe when I see mention of dual booting with Vista, because Vista sabotages dual boots.Jul 19 16:54
Leftystopping people on the streets and shaking them down?Jul 19 16:55
schestowitzwallclimber: I never met a person's VIsta machineJul 19 16:55
schestowitzNot even my sister's new PCJul 19 16:55
Leftydid you think Microsoft has a paramilitary wing or something?Jul 19 16:55
schestowitzBought in 2009Jul 19 16:55
schestowitzI laughed so hard seeing it running XPJul 19 16:55
schestowitzI run PCLOS on oitJul 19 16:55
MuttleyLefty: of course, you didn't specify the actual units you were using so I'm assuming Kelvin. in which case I'm flatteredJul 19 16:55
ydkjtwitter: no, you just fail to set it up correctly ;PJul 19 16:55
LeftyThat's nice. You _would_ be.Jul 19 16:56
twitterA relative of mine got a Vista machine.  It lasted a few months before it became unbootable.  The last few weeks was them talking to Dell tech.Jul 19 16:56
ydkjand that shows what exactly? pebkac or ... ?Jul 19 16:56
schestowitzydkj: they complicate itJul 19 16:56
twitterI set up all of my machines correctly, ydkj, and wipe whatever it came with.Jul 19 16:57
LeftyWell, Roy, since you don't dispute it, I'm going to assume that the "playing fast and loose with other people's copyrights" is true.Jul 19 16:57
ydkjyeah, so it takes like 2 minutes more - come on it's not that hard.Jul 19 16:57
LeftyWe can talk about it in the cross-examination.Jul 19 16:57
schestowitzg2g. Gym closed at 7Jul 19 16:57
LeftyI'll add it to the stack of evidence.Jul 19 16:57
schestowitz*closesJul 19 16:57
twitterVista SPs rewrite the MBR and bit locker is impossible to use with anything but Winblows.Jul 19 16:57
LeftyBye, Roy, don't fall down at hurt yourself! See ya later!Jul 19 16:58
ydkjgasp, stop the press. And who is forcing you to use it? E.g. TrueCrypt is impossible to use without TrueCrypt as well ...Jul 19 16:58
twitterGo visit my failure log ydkj.  Everything is documented there.Jul 19 16:58
twitter*** twitter ignores obvious troll ydkjJul 19 16:59
ydkjwell, ignore what you want but better stop ignoring reality ...Jul 19 16:59
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LeftyWilly can't hold his own here, either. Not surprising.Jul 19 17:00
ydkjbesides that I still consider it pretty funny that you genius' still go on and call everyone who doesn't agree with you 100% a troll :DJul 19 17:00
twitterTwitter happily uses GNU/Linux with full drive encryption.  The kernel asks for a pass word and unlocks the partition in question.  No modifications to grub were required.Jul 19 17:00
LeftyAnyone else finding the updated site to be slow as molasses?Jul 19 17:00
LeftyYeah, that's the way they are, ydkj. They can't argue their "points" so they stand around going "Troll! Troll! Troll!"Jul 19 17:01
LeftyIt's pretty pathetic.Jul 19 17:01
HivenGlavenYes, calling anyone who disagrees a troll is sad i have to admit.Jul 19 17:01
ydkjtwitter: congrats dude, and that's so frigging hard, right? I mean it proofs absolutely nothing and the only context with whatever been said is that it's related to encryption. So, what do you want to say with that?Jul 19 17:01
LeftyThat goes double for the twit over there.Jul 19 17:01
LeftyLook at him, slack-jawed and goggle-eyed...Jul 19 17:02
Lefty=DJul 19 17:02
LeftyThese guys check under the bed to make sure that Microsoft isn't under there before they can turn out the light, ydkj...Jul 19 17:03
*ydkj slaps Lefty Jul 19 17:03
ydkjLefty: dude, they aren't called Microsoft but "M$" ;DJul 19 17:03
HivenGlavenlefty, you've not been here when they ask how they can blame MS for (put world problem here) comments :DJul 19 17:04
LeftyNo, that's childish.Jul 19 17:04
wallclimbertwitter: I had a great time yesterday showing a friend the differences between Ubuntu and XP.  Installed a video card on a dual boot machine, then fired it up.  Ubu didn't even blink, it just worked.  Rebooted into XP and it took another 30 minutes to get the driver installed, with many adventures along the way.  The "Readme" file for the driver had 18 steps of instructions for installing the driver.  Made me laugh.Jul 19 17:04
ydkjLefty: sure it is but that's how they areJul 19 17:04
LeftyI'm sorry, Microsoft is not the Antichrist.Jul 19 17:04
LeftyOh, yes, I was!Jul 19 17:04
LeftyIt's the twit's thesis that the Katrina problems were all Micorosoft's fault!Jul 19 17:04
wallclimberI think Windows isn't quite ready for the desktop, much tooo hard for "grandma"  lolJul 19 17:04
LeftyI mean, it _couldn't possibly_ have anything to do with the NOLA local gov't ignoring wanrings about the levees for a quarter-century....Jul 19 17:05
ydkjwallclimber: out of curiosity, what card was that (did the same 2 days ago and didn't run into such troubles with another nvidia card)Jul 19 17:05
Leftyand fritter away the money that had to fix them on _studies_ about casinos!Jul 19 17:05
LeftyThey didn't even get a casino out of it.Jul 19 17:05
twitter***twitter finally ignores HivenGlavenJul 19 17:06
HivenGlavenor that the levies were build on a silt foundationJul 19 17:06
LeftyThese folks are like a little circle of lunatics, each reinforcing the other's delusions.Jul 19 17:06
LeftyYou guys might not have heard....Jul 19 17:06
LeftyOne of Roy's little trollettes decided to try to scare me by posting my employer's addresses and phone numbers into a comment.Jul 19 17:07
wallclimberydkj: it was a PNY Geforce 9500 gt.  It ended up being the driver, i did get an update to the driver and it all finally worked, but sheesh.Jul 19 17:07
LeftyHere's the best part: he did it _hoping that *someone else* would make the call_!Jul 19 17:07
HivenGlaven 19 17:07
LeftyThese guys show _such_ charracter, it's really inspiring to me.Jul 19 17:07
taconetwitter: did you invite some of your friends in the chan ? :)Jul 19 17:08
splosionhrmm, dramaJul 19 17:08
wallclimberLefty: not everyone here is a guy.Jul 19 17:08
LeftyYeah, that's about the size of it HivenGlaven...Jul 19 17:08
twitterI don't know what you mean, tacone.Jul 19 17:08
HivenGlavenguys is a generic term for "people"Jul 19 17:08
LeftyAnd have you looked at the comments?Jul 19 17:08
LeftyHave you _seen_ these guys trying to _argue_?Jul 19 17:09
LeftyWilly's most cogent statement to date has been, "You suck!"Jul 19 17:09
LeftyI'm using it generically, wallclimber.Jul 19 17:09
LeftyI can't see any of you.Jul 19 17:09
LeftyIt's easier in Japanese, there's no gender sense to words.Jul 19 17:10
LeftyI'd say, "Minna-san", which doesn't go either way...Jul 19 17:10
wallclimberlol, well this little "generic" person has work to do...bye for nowJul 19 17:10
*wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jul 19 17:10
LeftyHey, twit? Parlez-vous le francais? Nihongo o hanasemasu?Jul 19 17:11
LeftyOr are you one of them Americans who thinks everyone _really_ speaks English?Jul 19 17:11
splosionlefty, who the hell cares?Jul 19 17:12
splosionwhy are you here?Jul 19 17:12
LeftyI do, splosion.Jul 19 17:12
LeftyAre you trying to oppress me?Jul 19 17:12
Muttleywhy are we all here? that's pretty deep for a SundayJul 19 17:12
LeftyInhibit my _freedom_?Jul 19 17:12
splosionoh, trollingJul 19 17:12
taconesplosion: he's just talking alone.Jul 19 17:12
splosionok coolJul 19 17:12
LeftyI _like_ you folks, you're very funny.Jul 19 17:12
HivenGlavenif you say too much that roy does not like he'll call you a troll and kick you from IRC.Jul 19 17:12
HivenGlavenI know, gee how I know LOLJul 19 17:13
taconeLefty: before you go on, do you know this channel is publicly logged ?Jul 19 17:13
LeftyI enjoy catching Roy in _every single lie he tells_ and he tells a _lot_ of 'em.Jul 19 17:13
LeftyWhy are _you_ here?Jul 19 17:13
LeftyTo whimper about _me_ being here?Jul 19 17:13
splosionkeep going. You're a funny guyJul 19 17:13
twitterschestowitz, your Ubuntu article got me thinking.Jul 19 17:13
LeftySee, Roy decided to make it more difficult to post comments, even though he knows for sure that a) it's just me...Jul 19 17:13
Leftyand b) I _never_ use a name other than my own.Jul 19 17:14
HivenGlavengiving you the moral victory LeftyJul 19 17:14
LeftySo, since "most of the work" is done in IRC, I hear, I thought I'd see this work being done.Jul 19 17:14
LeftyLend a hand, maybe.Jul 19 17:14
Lefty=DJul 19 17:14
twitterKubuntu looks like a good way out of the mono trap and may be their compromise, even though they seem to put more effort into Gnome.Jul 19 17:14
taconetwitter: kde has been marked as an alternative by some peopleJul 19 17:15
splosionI never liked Kubuntu. Debian's KDE feels so much more refinedJul 19 17:15
twitterbut that lead me to wonder why Novell, which has a KDE based distro, is so into Gnome.Jul 19 17:15
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LeftyHivenGlaven, with this crowd, getting the moral victory's easy. Collectively, Roy's little troll minions don't have the ethics of a pack of rabid hyenas.Jul 19 17:15
LeftyYou can quote me on that.Jul 19 17:15
twitterHow do they justify such a strange investment to their share holders?Jul 19 17:15
taconekde people seems not that actracted by mono, for some reasons (some say because qt framework is good)Jul 19 17:16
twitterRightJul 19 17:16
taconetwitter: i think it is historically bound to kdeJul 19 17:16
LeftyWhy don't you _buy a share of stock and ask them_, Willy, you _dullard_?Jul 19 17:16
twitterKDE is not going to get suckered into that mess.Jul 19 17:16
taconeas kde and suse are much liked in germanyJul 19 17:16
splosionI've heard people sing the praises of QT to high heaven. Qyoto and [what's that other kde-mono one called?] don't seem to be taking off very well. could do in time thoughJul 19 17:16
twitterKDE is much liked everywhere.Jul 19 17:17
taconebut miguel, who's co-founder of gnome(?) was hired in novell afterwardsJul 19 17:17
LeftyAnd if you want "Mono out of the Ubuntu default install" so badly, how come none of you is running for the Ubuntu Technical Board?Jul 19 17:17
LeftySee, that's what makes it obvious that you're nothing but a bunch of griefers.Jul 19 17:17
taconeLefty: not easy to run for UTB. try yourself.Jul 19 17:17
LeftyKDE is not "much liked everywhere", Willy.Jul 19 17:18
twitterIf Novell loves Gnome so much, why do they stick with KDE?Jul 19 17:18
Leftyyou don't know what you're talking about.Jul 19 17:18
LeftyPeople like KDE less and less as time goes on.Jul 19 17:18
taconetwitter: why shouldn't them ?Jul 19 17:18
LeftyMore than half the folks at the Desktop Summit were GNOME folks.Jul 19 17:18
taconethere's community's work. and existing user base and so on.Jul 19 17:18
LeftyYou wouldn't know that, you don't know jack about the _real_ FLOSS development community, do you?Jul 19 17:19
twitterBecause they should be putting their money into developing the platform they sell customers, not Ubuntu.Jul 19 17:19
LeftyCome on, WIlly! Startle me! Prove me wrong.Jul 19 17:19
LeftyUm, Willy, what?Jul 19 17:19
taconetwitter: guess they still put the majority of money in gnome (also via mono). aren't them ?Jul 19 17:19
LeftyYou're not even making sense now.Jul 19 17:19
taconeLefty: you're being annoying.Jul 19 17:20
LeftyHey, Willy, who's the head of the KDE board, since you're such a fan?Jul 19 17:20
twitterI don't know what they do, but Roy has shown that Novell would not be here without M$ bribe money.Jul 19 17:20
LeftyTough, tacone.Jul 19 17:20
LeftyGrow a thicker skin.Jul 19 17:20
twitterSo basically, they serve M$ not their customers.Jul 19 17:20
LeftyOh, and you're being childish. So there.Jul 19 17:20
MuttleyhahaJul 19 17:21
splosionLefty: NO UJul 19 17:21
ydkjtwitter: you aren't really trying to say that Novell doesn't do a thing for Gnome but only lives from the great contributions the mighty buntu does to Gnome and foss in general, are you?Jul 19 17:21
Muttleythis is awesomeJul 19 17:21
LeftyUm, how do you figure, Willy. Novell already _got_ the money. Sow your work.Jul 19 17:21
taconeLefty: it's not me screaming about sexism for a virgin-mary parody. i have thick skin.  I'm telling for you. Your msg here are lesive for your reputationJul 19 17:21
LeftyThat's like saying because Apple used to pay me a decade ago, they're still paying me now.Jul 19 17:22
Muttleyydkj: they help toxically poison gnome with toxins and poison ;)Jul 19 17:22
LeftyWell, tacone, see, that's because I _actually spoke to folks at GCDS_ who were as unhappy as I was.Jul 19 17:22
LeftyYou think I'm the only one who's complained about it?Jul 19 17:22
LeftyI'm just the only one who wrote _Stallman_ about it, and he acted....unfortunately.Jul 19 17:23
taconeNo, but I think you're allowing yourself beyond what politeness suggests, here.Jul 19 17:23
Lefty"lesive"? What's that mean, tacone? To quote Stallman ridiculing a questioner for whom English was not a first language, "I......Caaaaaaaaaan't understaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand yooooooooooooou. Caaaaaaaaaaan yooooooooooou enuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunciaaaaaaaaaaaate beeeeeeeeetter?"Jul 19 17:24
ydkjMuttley: well, if Gnome doesn't want them noone is forcing them to use them.Jul 19 17:24
LeftyWell, that's a matter of opinion, tacone.Jul 19 17:24
Leftymaybe you should write the president of the internet and complain, hm?Jul 19 17:25
Leftybesides, tacone, what exactly are you talking about?Jul 19 17:25
Muttleyydkj: the joys of open source where if people don't like something they can do it another wayJul 19 17:26
*magentar has quit (Connection timed out)Jul 19 17:26
LeftyDid I mention that when Roy called me a troll, Shane disagreed? "I agree with Lefty more often than not."Jul 19 17:26
splosionLefty: lesive is an Italian wordJul 19 17:26
LeftyThat's what he said.Jul 19 17:26
twitterLefty has never been polite, informative, entertaining or anything useful.  You are better off ignoring or kicking him.Jul 19 17:26
Muttleyydkj: what I don't understand is how some many KDE fans can find the time to hate something that's gnome onlyJul 19 17:26
ydkjOne thing I'm curious about is why you guys go so nuts if someone dares to critizice stallman? Is he like the pope who is always right based on some godly law or ... ?Jul 19 17:26
LeftyOh, well, "baka" is a Japanese word. Want to know what it means?Jul 19 17:27
splosionI already knowJul 19 17:27
LeftyYeah, I'm starting to think they worship Stallman or something.Jul 19 17:27
LeftyDo you folks keep his picture under your pillows?Jul 19 17:27
LeftyOh, good, splosion! Try and work out how it applies to you!Jul 19 17:27
HivenGlavenit is very cult like leftyJul 19 17:28
LeftySomething like that...?Jul 19 17:28
LeftyHm. I usually associate cults with, oh, sex orgies and stuff.Jul 19 17:28
ydkjMuttley: I wouldn't say hate but more "mocking" Gnome for its "The user needs no options but defaults choosen by devs" pov. Regarding the Gnome only stuff, since I can use Gnome apps on KDE and the other way round I can just use what I want. Which is one of the reasons I don't get it why they go so nuts.Jul 19 17:29
LeftyI don't think Roy's pals know what sex is, honestly.Jul 19 17:29
HivenGlavencults need at least 2 things a figure head and a cause.Jul 19 17:29
LeftyI mean it's clear that tacone, at least, doesn't know any actual women.Jul 19 17:29
LeftyAnd I wouldn't think Willy's Tourette's Syndrome would be a big draw...Jul 19 17:29
Muttleyydkj: yeah, "f-spot is the devils work, it uses mono. Digikam is better" fine, use digikam then, your choice ;)Jul 19 17:30
LeftyAnd no woman would put up with Roy's pathological lying.Jul 19 17:30
splosionThis is great stuff, Lefty. you should write a blog post about how you fearlessly entered the domain of fanboynazizealots and totally pwned them. Another glorious victory for... whatever the hell it is you stand forJul 19 17:30
ydkjHivenGlaven: well, they have the beard, now they just need a brain to find the cause ;DJul 19 17:30
LeftyThere are more interesting things to blog about, splosion. Where's _your_ blog, since you're such an afficionado of such things?Jul 19 17:31
splosionI don't blog about BN, Mono, or any of the things BN goes on aboutJul 19 17:31
LeftyAnd you haven't seen "pwned" yet. Like I said, ask Roy about how I'm going to be seeing him in court for libeling me...Jul 19 17:31
LeftyHe _admitted_ it, you know.Jul 19 17:31
ydkjMuttley: yeah, and if you absolutely can't stand it write your own like that dude did for some mono notes app iirc. However, that would mean that zealots like twitter would have to do something productive which surely wont happenJul 19 17:31
LeftyPosted a full retraction, and an apology. That's what they call _prima facie_ evidence.Jul 19 17:32
LeftyThat means it's an "open and shut case"...Jul 19 17:32
taconeLefty: did you ask him to rectify before threatening to sue ?Jul 19 17:32
LeftyI did.Jul 19 17:32
taconeif you did, I have missed that.Jul 19 17:33
Muttleyydkj: it's far easier to sit on your arse and moan than lift a finger and do something productiveJul 19 17:33
LeftyAs part of his apology, he undertook never to be so irresponsible again in the future.Jul 19 17:33
ydkjMuttley: for sure :DJul 19 17:33
LeftyHe broke _that_ promise within a day.Jul 19 17:33
LeftyWell, then you missed it, tacone. I've pointed out to Roy every single one of his libels when I've become aware of them.Jul 19 17:34
ydkjtacone: does it matter? boy is spreading lies for ages and refuses to correct even the most blatant ones so, personally, I'm happy and have a great laugh now that someone finally gets bored enough to sue that fucker.Jul 19 17:34
HivenGlavenIt was damn fine of Roy to hang around and debate the issues with you Lefty, and not run away from being called about his "facts".Jul 19 17:34
LeftyHe's got an article that claims--get this--based on a _parody_ article about Google's "ChromeOS", that the "Microsoft CEO Admits That Vista is Vapourware".Jul 19 17:34
LeftyThat's what the headline says.Jul 19 17:34
LeftyIt's been pointed out to him multiple times, and he hasn't corrected it.Jul 19 17:35
LeftyAre you suggesting, in the face of all the evidence, that Roy is _not_ a pathological liar....?Jul 19 17:35
ydkjcause its a blog and we have freedom of speechJul 19 17:35
ydkjor no, was it a journalJul 19 17:35
LeftyYeah, HivenGlaven, Roy's a real man of conviction!Jul 19 17:36
ydkjor even a wiki made by others?Jul 19 17:36
LeftyWilly found that out.Jul 19 17:36
*ydkj lost it ;'(Jul 19 17:36
taconeLefty: could you link your first rectification request ?Jul 19 17:36
LeftyHe and ROy were the ones spreading the libel that I objected to.Jul 19 17:36
LeftyRoy cut and ran, retracted it, apologized in full, swore never to do it again, and left poor twit there, twisting in the wind with a stupid expression on his face.Jul 19 17:37
LeftyRight, twit?Jul 19 17:37
LeftyAll I can say is that if it looks like a news site, and it has an editor like a news site, and it publishes news like a news site, and the fellow responsible is a "freelance journalist"....Jul 19 17:38
LeftyWell, you get the idea...Jul 19 17:38
taconeI'm suggesting you said you asked for rectification before threatening and I still can't read it anywhere. That's fine, bn has a lot of posts. But still i miss it.Jul 19 17:38
LeftyCould you blow it out your ear, tacone?Jul 19 17:39
LeftyThis is between Roy and me.Jul 19 17:39
LeftyDo your own research, numbskull.Jul 19 17:39
taconeit's between you two until you come here and take pride of a legal threat.Jul 19 17:39
LeftyYou don't get it, see? Roy had _already admitted to libeling me.Jul 19 17:40
ydkjnah, that's fine since it gives me a great laugh :DJul 19 17:40
LeftyI had to make it clear to him that I was in complete earnest about hauling his sorry ass into court to get him to retract his defamation and apologize for it.Jul 19 17:40
LeftyWith me so far?Jul 19 17:40
LeftyAs I said, he broke his promise to be more responsible before 24 hours was out.Jul 19 17:41
ydkjLefty: but that's not really surprising ;DJul 19 17:41
LeftyI told him I viewed that as acting in bad faith. What's your big interest in a request for rectification from someone who's a) already an admitted libeler, and b) has shown bad faith in breaking a covenant he agreed to?Jul 19 17:42
LeftyYou another one of them "internet lawyers"?Jul 19 17:42
taconehe admitted a mistake afaik.Jul 19 17:42
LeftyOf course it's not surprising, it's Roy all over. But tacone there is shuffling his feet, going "Well dude, did you ask him to, like, y' know, _rectify_ it? 'Cause, um, I didn't actually, like, you know, _see_ it, right?"Jul 19 17:43
ydkjtacone: sry, but calling boys stuff "mistakes" is pretty ridiculousJul 19 17:43
LeftyHe admitted _defamation_, tacone. That's a _big_ mistake.Jul 19 17:43
twitterVista 7 hype log is updated 19 17:43
LeftyAnd then he jumped right back into it.Jul 19 17:44
HivenGlavenlibel is a serious charge, and not hard to convict on it can be very expensive if your convicted especially if it affects someone's professional career. It's even worse if its repeated, and they are aware of what they are doing.Jul 19 17:44
splosionjesus, Lefty, stop being as ass. If you're gonna do it, just bloody well DO IT already. stop being a cock about itJul 19 17:44
LeftyAnd "as far as you know" is about the distance from my left nostril to my right.Jul 19 17:44
HivenGlavenLefty, they call Win 7 Vista 7 here, it's their little in joke.Jul 19 17:44
ydkjno way, go on, I love it :DJul 19 17:44
LeftyI've got clearcut evidence, HivenGlaven, and as I said, Roy colluded with some of his trollettes to try and cause trouble for me at my job.Jul 19 17:45
Leftydidn't work of course, but this place needs to be shut down, I believe.Jul 19 17:45
twitteras more ARM and MIPS netbooks hit the market, M$ inability to port is going to tell on them.Jul 19 17:45
Leftysplosion, I'm doing it. Enjoy this place while it's still around. and say your byebyes to Roy.Jul 19 17:46
MuttleyLefty: are you going to take him to court then>Jul 19 17:46
Muttley?Jul 19 17:46
LeftyWell, obviously, Muttley.Jul 19 17:46
LeftyYes.Jul 19 17:46
Muttleywhere?Jul 19 17:46
HivenGlavenIve had that happen to me, I built a strong case hired a top law speaking guy, and they other person crumbled. BTW: my boss thought he was a crazy it did nothing to hurt me.Jul 19 17:46
twitterPeople want portability that Intel has yet to deliver.Jul 19 17:46
LeftyRoy's pals made up my mind for me when they posted the contact information for my employer in a comment.Jul 19 17:46
twitterwell, Wintel has yet to deliver.Jul 19 17:46
MuttleyLefty: which country?Jul 19 17:47
LeftyWilly, shut up, we're talking here.Jul 19 17:47
Leftystay on topic.Jul 19 17:47
HivenGlavenYes I read that, its quite disgusting to see people stoop to that level. or even feel they need too.Jul 19 17:47
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LeftyI'm going to sue him in the UK. he's based there, and the defamation laws are _extremely_ friendly to the defamed.Jul 19 17:47
LeftyAlso, it'll make it a lot easier to strip him of his various assets.Jul 19 17:48
twitterEEE PC, despite it's flaws, was a big hit.Jul 19 17:48
LeftyWho are you talking to, Willy?Jul 19 17:48
LeftyThe wall?Jul 19 17:48
Muttleydoes publishing personal information count as defamation?Jul 19 17:48
twitterAndroid devices and stuff like crunchpad are going to run away with the PC market.Jul 19 17:48
LeftyI travel to the UK a lot, as it happens.Jul 19 17:48
splosiongood old UK defamation laws. Pretty much the only place in the world where you can be sued for libel even if what you say is true. is this part of your decision to come to the UK, Lefty?Jul 19 17:49
twitterPeople don't want to spend $1000 on a computer any more.  You will be lucky to get $200 out of them.Jul 19 17:49
HivenGlavenit could certainly be construde as intimidation or even terrism in this age.Jul 19 17:49
MuttleyHivenGlaven: that's not the sameJul 19 17:49
twitterThe last mile problem can still be a barrier.Jul 19 17:49
LeftyNo, Muttley, that would be invasion of privacy. Telling outright lies which would damage my reputation--in this case that "the only reason Lefty is complaning about Stallman is that Lefty is a SECRET MONO SUPPORTER!"Jul 19 17:50
LeftyThat's damaging to me, and that what he retracted and apologized for.Jul 19 17:50
twitterMost long range wireless services are run by abusive monopolies who push really poor and non free software.Jul 19 17:50
Muttleyhow is it damaging?Jul 19 17:50
LeftyI know it's a challenge, Muttley, do try and keep up.Jul 19 17:50
ydkjsplosion: of course he should sue boy in spain and not in the uk since he lives in the uk, right?Jul 19 17:50
LeftyAnyone know who Willy thinks he's talking to...?Jul 19 17:51
twitterThe answer, of course, is more freedom not less.Jul 19 17:51
twitterOpen Spectrum should put an end to wireless pain. 19 17:51
LeftyEr, how is it damaging? Claiming that I'm colluding with Novell to "assassinate Stalman's character"?Jul 19 17:51
LeftyYou don't see that as damaging to me?Jul 19 17:51
David_LeeTwitter: Have you heard any updates on the susu snapdragon?Jul 19 17:51
Muttleyalso if he's retracted and apologised for his statement doesn't that weaken your case?Jul 19 17:51
David_Lee*susu=ASUSJul 19 17:52
twitternoJul 19 17:52
LeftyMuttley?Jul 19 17:52
twitterASUS has been clobbered by M$ as far as I can tell.Jul 19 17:52
LeftyNope, it strengthens it. By retracting it and apologizing, he _admits_ it's libel.Jul 19 17:52
HivenGlaventhen doing it again soon after makes it even worseJul 19 17:53
twitterthey took an operating loss on hardware, for the first time in their history, shortly after putting XP on their EEE PCs.Jul 19 17:53
Muttleydid he say he meant malice by it?Jul 19 17:53
LeftyHe also made a prmise to be more responsible in the future, which he broke in less than a day, repeating (at second-hand) _exactly_ the same lies.Jul 19 17:53
twitterNow they dump GNU/Linux completely.Jul 19 17:53
Muttleyor did he just apologise for name callingJul 19 17:53
Muttleyand admit his mistakeJul 19 17:53
LeftyLook at this site, Muttley.Jul 19 17:53
LeftyJeebub, why don't you go and _read_ the damned thing, Muttley.Jul 19 17:54
MuttleyLefty: dude, his site is full of crap. I could spend hours looking.Jul 19 17:54
Muttleythen post the linkJul 19 17:54
twitterI'd be happy to learn asus has gotten out of that bed.Jul 19 17:54
Muttleyif you're going to be presenting it as evidence surely you have a url close to handJul 19 17:54
David_LeeLast time Asus dropped the ball Acer to the lead. Now they're screwing it with the a0531h.Jul 19 17:54
ydkjMuttley: no, boy doesn't mean mallice with anything he does, he's a good hearted fella who just wants the best for everyone. That's why he runs his "site" like he does ... (keep the irony ;D)Jul 19 17:54
LeftyYou'll find a full and detailed retraction, and unreserved aplogy, and a promise to refrain from making such "irresponsible statements" in the future.Jul 19 17:54
LeftyThat's you're problem, Muttley, you can take my word for it or not.Jul 19 17:55
LeftyI'm not your research assistant.Jul 19 17:55
Muttleyydkj: oh yeah, I believe that. but I'm just saying that unless he admits that he meant to defame lefty by his statement then an apology doesn't help lefty muchJul 19 17:55
twitterRoy has a few good write ups, like this 19 17:55
LeftyI've got plenty of URLs, but I find you too stupid to indulge.Jul 19 17:55
MuttleyLefty: dude, wtf? don't you even have it bookmarkedJul 19 17:55
twitter 19 17:56
LeftyI don't need to prove anything to you, Nimrod, just to the judge.Jul 19 17:56
MuttleyLefty: you droned on about it enough I'd just expect you have it close to handJul 19 17:56
twitter 19 17:56
David_LeeYeah, I read that one.Jul 19 17:56
HivenGlavenYou would think someone like Roy would know about libel and defamation laws quite well considering how he plays fast and lose with the truth, after all what would he do if he got a legel letter from a Bill Gates or balmer lawyer with very very deep pockets and good legal council.Jul 19 17:56
twitterSad story.Jul 19 17:56
LeftyMuttley, do you know what the phrase "in flagrant disregard for the truth" means?Jul 19 17:56
David_LeeNot the second.Jul 19 17:56
twitterThey were choked in the retail channel.Jul 19 17:56
LeftyDo you know anything at all about journaistic ethics and responsibilities?Jul 19 17:56
MuttleyLefty: dude, the guy writes a blog. I know he likes to claim he's a journalist but that doesn't mean he isJul 19 17:57
LeftyHivenGlaven, I would have thought so, too, but I've come around to the view that Roy is actually just too stupid.Jul 19 17:57
LeftyHe doesn't even seem to have a lawyer to call.Jul 19 17:57
twitterPJ covered the smoking gun complaint. 19 17:57
LeftyIf he did, he'd know he's in deep doo-doo here.Jul 19 17:57
David_LeeAlso Sony is a followup to the ao531h with their small version.Jul 19 17:57
twittershe's got updates.  I think I'll read that again.Jul 19 17:57
splosionLefty, everything you accuse Roy of doing (which ultimately amounts to "he dissed me!"), you are doing likewise every time you open your god-damned mouth by insulting pretty much everyone you meet. You're being hypocritical, unethical, and a troll. If you had any integrity at all you'd practise what you preach; but as it stands, no amount of bullshit reasoning can hide the fact that you lack it.Jul 19 17:58
LeftyIt's not a blog, Muttley. ROy's an editor and a freelance journalist. Says so in his (digitally signed) email sig.Jul 19 17:58
LeftyThinks that's just a fun thing to call yourself?Jul 19 17:58
HivenGlaventhe "smoking gun" was a Asus rep saying he wuold love to ship with linux but he has to sell the products and no one wants to buy the linux ones. read it.Jul 19 17:58
LeftyBite me, splosion. you're another dullard, and I don't think I need to be nice here.Jul 19 17:59
Muttleyif I call myself the King of England does mean i get to wear a crown? ;)Jul 19 17:59
LeftyAnd you misspelled "inconvenient".Jul 19 17:59
Muttleyall I'm saying is I think you're overestimating your chances of successJul 19 17:59
David_LeeThe Charlie Demerjian's link was the one i was going to send to Andrew. Had lost it. Thanks.Jul 19 17:59
ydkjsplosion: well, being impolite is pretty different to spreading blatant liesJul 19 18:00
Muttleya well written apology can destroy a defamation case.Jul 19 18:00
HivenGlavennot very oftenJul 19 18:00
LeftyIf you call yourself a freelance journalist and an editor, and you have a site full of what look an awful lot like news stories, and you link to other news sites...Jul 19 18:00
Leftythen the reasonable assumption is that you're a news site.Jul 19 18:00
Muttleyright, because that doesn't describe 50% of blogs ;)Jul 19 18:01
LeftyRoy has a responsibility to tell the truth, one in which he's dismally failed.Jul 19 18:01
LeftyReally? You a lawyer, Muttley?Jul 19 18:01
MuttleyI think you're going to be disappointedJul 19 18:01
LeftyGot much legal experience?Jul 19 18:01
LeftyLet's hear about it.Jul 19 18:01
MuttleyLefty: not really, but then neither are you so it's a void pointJul 19 18:02
LeftyI'm a member of the FSF Europe's Legal and Licensing Network, and, I think, the only non-lawyer.Jul 19 18:02
LeftyIt's invitation-only, you know.Jul 19 18:02
HivenGlavenhe is obviously touting himself as a commentator and investigator of MS and Novell and anything else he wants too here.  he's admitted that here many times.Jul 19 18:02
twitter:)Jul 19 18:02
Muttleyok, so as a non-lawyer that means you know about UK libel lawsJul 19 18:02
LeftyI am a recognized expert in open source licensing and intellectual property law, sonny.Jul 19 18:03
Lefty=DJul 19 18:03
MuttleyrightJul 19 18:03
MuttleyagainJul 19 18:03
splosionAppeal to authority. smoothJul 19 18:03
David_LeeTwitter: Andrew thinks the next battlefield will be the netbook and smartbooks. ARMs.Jul 19 18:03
MuttleyIP and OS licencing, not quite the same realm as libelJul 19 18:03
splosions/to/fromJul 19 18:03
LeftyI know a lot about UK libel laws. I know journalists aren't allowed to lie.Jul 19 18:03
LeftyI know that they must correct errors that are brought to their attention.Jul 19 18:03
splosionLefty: you've never read any of our newspapers, I take itJul 19 18:03
Muttleyreally? have you read a UK tabloid recently? ;)Jul 19 18:03
LeftyI know they can't print libel in flagrant disregard of the truth.Jul 19 18:04
David_LeeHe's really convinced on it.Jul 19 18:04
HivenGlavenor read about the huge payouts the papers have to pay when they are cought out in a lie !!Jul 19 18:04
twitterIf Vista 7 continues along the lines of Vista, look for a new wave of retail failures or greatly lowered M$ revenue and profit.  Channel stuffing is where the real fight is now.Jul 19 18:04
Leftysplosion, I take it you've managed to miss coverage of some of the massive libel awards made in the UK to folks--celebrities, mostly--who were libeled.Jul 19 18:04
MuttleyHivenGlaven: yeah, the huge payouts to extrememly wealthy celebs who have the money to pay for very good lawyersJul 19 18:05
LeftyIt's even harsher when you libel someone who's not a "public figure".Jul 19 18:05
HivenGlavenahh yes, vista well over 200 million vista out there, and goign out the door at 20 million a month, not bad for a "failure".Jul 19 18:05
LeftyI know plenty of good lawyers, and ROy will end up paying for them.Jul 19 18:05
David_LeeAnd it's becoming more obvious-very sloppyJul 19 18:05
twitterM$ is cramming their crap down hard, this is how Netbooks and GNU/Linux have been excluded, but it's a losing strategy as the failure of CompUSA, Circuit City and others show.Jul 19 18:05
LeftyThe winner in the UK gets his court costs. Didja know _that_?Jul 19 18:05
MuttleyLefty: you get your costs paid forJul 19 18:06
splosionLefty: a few high-profile cases does not negate the fact that the UK press is full of lies. every single day. Do some research 19 18:06
MuttleygreatJul 19 18:06
LeftyI don't have to correct the UK press, splosion, only Roy.Jul 19 18:06
LeftyWhat's your point?Jul 19 18:06
twitterHardware makers like ASUS tried to prepare a line of computers for leaner times, but they got locked out.Jul 19 18:06
Lefty(Assuming you ctually have one, I mean...(Jul 19 18:06
LeftyStill talking to yourself, Willy?Jul 19 18:07
splosionLefty: journalists aren't allowed to print lies, and yet they do *all the time*. That's the pointJul 19 18:07
LeftyDon't wanna join in? Nothing to say?Jul 19 18:07
twitterAll the members of Taipei Computer Association have been stomped on.Jul 19 18:07
David_LeeBest Buy in Rochester said notebooks weren't selling too good.Jul 19 18:07
LeftyThat doesn't mean that you can't sue them and win. People do it all the time. Again, what's your point?Jul 19 18:07
LeftyAnd as I said, it's proven that Roy's defamed me. He admitted it.Jul 19 18:08
David_LeeBut netbooks under 300 were.Jul 19 18:08
twitterrightJul 19 18:08
splosionI already explained my point twice. Learn to read betterJul 19 18:08
twitterRetail has a typical mark up of 100%.Jul 19 18:08
ydkjsplosion: so what? they get sued and the same now happens to boy.Jul 19 18:09
twitterThere's not a lot of room for Windoze licenses in that kind of price.Jul 19 18:09
LeftyYou didn't have a point, that's what I was telling you.Jul 19 18:09
LeftyThe fact that papers tell lies sometimes doesn't mean there are no defamation laws in the UK, and it's frankly moronic to suggest that it does.Jul 19 18:09
David_LeeNot what Balmer wants, anywayJul 19 18:09
LeftyMost people won't be bothered to bring suit, unless the libe is _really_ damaging.Jul 19 18:10
LeftyRoy's persuaded me he needs to be shut down.Jul 19 18:10
twitterBallmer can make a lot of wishes, but he won't get them.Jul 19 18:10
splosionLefty: yes that's exactly what I said. I said there are no defamation laws in the UK. WELL DONEJul 19 18:10
LeftyHAHAHAHAHAHAJul 19 18:10
LeftyYou _are_ an idiot, splosion. You do not know what you are talking about.Jul 19 18:11
David_LeeMaybe that's why he's throwing the KFC win7 family packJul 19 18:11
twitterThe super sucker deal?  Right.Jul 19 18:11
David_LeeHey, PT Barnum said it right. "There's a sucker born every minute".Jul 19 18:12
twitterI doubt people are going to be dumb enough to try to install Vista 7 themselves after the Vista fiascoJul 19 18:12
Leftysplosion, evidently the UK-based guy who wrote this article last month didn't get the memo:Jul 19 18:12
Lefty 19 18:12
LeftyAre you _sure_ you know what you're talking about...?Jul 19 18:12
twitterThey are going to get Vista and Vista 7 with a new computer and no other way.Jul 19 18:12
splosionJesus christ. Lefty, you're something else. Troll me on this one: the sky is not blue.Jul 19 18:13
HivenGlavengees i installed Vista, I cant remember having any issues at all,Jul 19 18:13
splosionGo and fetch a link to prove that I'm wrongJul 19 18:13
LeftyWhat is it about you guys? You seem to think that "truth" is any damned fool thing that pops into your head and dribbles out of your mouth.Jul 19 18:13
LeftyWhat's up with that?Jul 19 18:13
Leftysplosion, try to stay on topic.Jul 19 18:14
Leftyyou said that there were no libel laws in the UK, right?Jul 19 18:14
HivenGlavenI installed Win 7  put the CD in an went to bed, next morning it was all done.Jul 19 18:14
twitterEven people with money don't want to spend more than $300 on a new computer.  Does anyone really think people will buy a $300 computer and a $250 software pack?  Ha.Jul 19 18:14
LeftyI mean you weren't, like, suddenly demonically possessed or something, right?Jul 19 18:14
twitterThe market is already saturated with Vista failure laptops.Jul 19 18:15
LeftyTry saying this: "I guess I was mistaken about that. Next time I should check first."Jul 19 18:15
LeftySee, that's what an adult says.Jul 19 18:15
splosionChrist in a sackJul 19 18:15
splosionyou're brilliant. Keep goingJul 19 18:15
HivenGlavenThey think if they say it enough times, it will become true.Jul 19 18:15
twitterRetailers have been dumping them out at less than $500 for the last two and a half years.Jul 19 18:15
Lefty"you're something else. Troll me on this one: the sky is not blue.", that's what a 3-year-old says.Jul 19 18:16
splosionLefty: The UK has no WHOOSH laws eitherJul 19 18:16
twitterIt's an indication of how much people loath Vista and how saturated the hardware market it.Jul 19 18:16
twitterisJul 19 18:16
ydkjtwitter: and where is the 250$ software pack for the 300$ pc?Jul 19 18:16
David_LeeNext purchase for the group will be from system76Jul 19 18:16
LeftyLet me know if you ever manage to find two neurons together and generate an actual thought, splosion.Jul 19 18:16
LeftyI'm not placing high odds on it.Jul 19 18:17
*tacone (n=Adium@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 19 18:17
David_LeeAnd for desktop, Zareason.Jul 19 18:17
splosionLefty: go back to troll schoolJul 19 18:17
splosion[18:08] <splosion> good old UK defamation laws. Pretty much the only place in the world where you can be sued for libel even if what you say is true. is this part of your decision to come to the UK, Lefty?Jul 19 18:17
LeftyYou really oughta try it, splosion. Builds character. Something you ccould sorely use.Jul 19 18:17
LeftyMake me, Bluto.Jul 19 18:18
LeftyNo, it's because Roy's in the UK.Jul 19 18:18
splosionYeah, I knowJul 19 18:18
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LeftyI could sue him in California, trivially--and I might anyway--but it's harder to collect the damages.Jul 19 18:18
LeftyHuh. I thought you were saying they didn't _have_ libel laws in the UK, splosion.Jul 19 18:19
LeftyMaybe you _are_ demonically possessed.Jul 19 18:19
splosionHow tall are you, Lefty. Because it seems there are some things that go right over your head. Jokes, sarcasm. What else?Jul 19 18:20
HivenGlavenahh the last refuge of a lier and truth bender, "its a joke, its sarcasm".Jul 19 18:21
LeftyRight.Jul 19 18:23
LeftyWhere exactly were you being sarcastic, as opposed to just displaying your complete ignorance..?Jul 19 18:23
twitterPJ's video collection is very nice but Snapdragon was just the start.Jul 19 18:23
LeftyI _did_ miss that.Jul 19 18:23
splosionAh, so, I state that UK libel laws are particularly strong. And then I say that in spite of that journalists hardly get sued. And Lefty takes that to mean "libels laws don't exist". I saw, "yes, that's right, WELL DONE." He finds a link to prove me wrong. Does this really need explaining?Jul 19 18:23
splosiona/saw/sayJul 19 18:23
LeftyI'm 1.83m, by the way, maybe 80 kg. or so.Jul 19 18:23
LeftyHow tall are _you_?Jul 19 18:24
splosionWow. I'm 183 cm. But I weigh only 70kg. You can beat me upsJul 19 18:24
LeftyAs I said, it's unclear what your point is.Jul 19 18:24
Muttleythat seems to be going roundJul 19 18:24
LeftyWhat does your (unsupported) assertion of what happens to other journalists have to do with anything?Jul 19 18:25
LeftyRoy's _certainly_ going to wind up in court. And he's going to lose. Disastrously and completely.Jul 19 18:25
LeftySee, being a pathological liar is going to count against him.Jul 19 18:25
MuttleyI think you're all talk tbhJul 19 18:25
taconeso you're going to sue him ?Jul 19 18:25
Muttleytacone: apparentlyJul 19 18:26
LeftyFine, Muttley, I don'r remember expressing a lot of concern for your opinion, such as it is.Jul 19 18:26
Muttleyas soon as he's finished going on about it non stopJul 19 18:26
MuttleyLefty: I didn't realise I needed permission to give itJul 19 18:26
HivenGlavenits not that hard or expensive to doJul 19 18:26
splosionBecause I'm being pedantic. You say journalists aren't allowed to lie. I say yes, but they do. And that's it. That's all it ever was. It's a completely uninteresting footnote on the issue at hand, and you turn into a remarkable display of your lack of appreciation for sarcasm. KudosJul 19 18:26
LeftyGee, you really _are_ a bit slow, aren't you, tacone...?Jul 19 18:26
taconeyes or not ?Jul 19 18:26
taconedefine "slow"Jul 19 18:26
HivenGlaventhey do, and if they are caught out and its proven they have they get sued, and they pay damages and costs.Jul 19 18:27
David_LeeTwitter: Will catch up on GL later. Andrew said there was a link to Android Live CD on Stefano's blog. Get to get that.Jul 19 18:27
Lefty"Thick as two planks and sharp as a sack of hammers"Jul 19 18:27
LeftyDoes that help?Jul 19 18:27
HivenGlavensharp as a tennis ballJul 19 18:28
splosionCan Android be run outside of a VM yet?Jul 19 18:28
MuttleyHivenGlaven: they only pay damages if it's proven they did it with malice. rather than they were just stupidJul 19 18:28
taconeyou didn't answered my previous question. are you going to sue him even after rectifying ?Jul 19 18:28
LeftyRoy's damages will be commensurate with his multiple libels of me, his acting in bad faith, and his masquerading as a journalist.Jul 19 18:28
LeftyNot to mention the "millions of hits a day" he claims this site gets.Jul 19 18:28
HivenGlavenand his "public" presenceJul 19 18:28
David_LeeDon't know that yet, but will try it.Jul 19 18:29
HivenGlavenyes thatJul 19 18:29
Leftysplosion, "Can Android be run outside of a VM"...?Jul 19 18:29
LeftyWhat are you talking about?Jul 19 18:29
MuttleyI'm yet to discover what's so damaging about being called pro-monoJul 19 18:29
LeftyAndroid is a (mutant) Java framework. It runs inside of the Dalvik VM. How's it going to "run outside a VM"...?Jul 19 18:29
David_LeeTwitter: bblJul 19 18:30
splosionI heard that the android live cd is almost impossible to get going on a regular desktop. I meant must it be installed on a virtual desktopJul 19 18:30
*tacone is rewriting android in mono. monodroidJul 19 18:30
taconesplosion: that's because of hardware supportJul 19 18:30
LeftyIt casts aspersions on my motivations with regard to my criticism of Stallman, it suggests that I'm insincere in those criticisms, and it portrays me as acting in collusion with some hazily-defined "pro-Mono" forces.Jul 19 18:30
twittermondroid?Jul 19 18:30
taconethat's why people run it on a vmJul 19 18:31
twittermongloid?Jul 19 18:31
LeftyIt's also in complete defiance of the easily-determinable facts.Jul 19 18:31
taconelolJul 19 18:31
LeftyThat's called "a flagrant disregard for the truth", see?Jul 19 18:31
splosiontacone: so not yet, then? That's cool. I can wait around for itJul 19 18:31
LeftylolJul 19 18:31
taconesplosion: may or may not work. the livecd is an eee pc versionJul 19 18:31
Muttleysounds more like school yard name callingJul 19 18:32
Muttleynot sure how it's affected your trade or professionJul 19 18:32
taconeso it should run natively on a eee pcJul 19 18:32
LeftyBesides, you forgot, Muttley: Roy already _admitted_ that it was libel when he retracted it and apologized.Jul 19 18:32
Lefty=DJul 19 18:32
taconeLefty: i thought he did something much worse to tyouJul 19 18:32
Muttleyno he didn'tJul 19 18:32
HivenGlavenespecially when the intent of posting lefty's boss's numbers on BN are taken into consideration, it might mean the end of BNJul 19 18:33
taconehe didn't. and even if that was under threat.Jul 19 18:33
LeftyWell, you also forgot his colluding with Mark Fink to cause trouble for me at work, and then lying to me about that.Jul 19 18:33
taconei don't think it was roy himself to post those. was it ?Jul 19 18:33
LeftyThat's what started the whole thing.Jul 19 18:33
LeftySo, if you don't like having me here, blame Roy.Jul 19 18:34
taconeif that's just that, i think you'll have a though time in courtJul 19 18:34
HivenGlavenhe's done it before to other people, its a standard roy tackic to "out" people who dont agree with his mentality.Jul 19 18:34
LeftyNo it wasn't, tacone. I didn't hold a gun to his head. I told him I was going to institute legal action against him.Jul 19 18:34
LeftyThat's not a threat.Jul 19 18:34
Muttleyoh I enjoy having you here. the anti-mono trolls were getting really boring, it's nice seeing the other side of the coin ;)Jul 19 18:34
taconeyou posed conditions and he complied.Jul 19 18:34
Lefty"I'll beat you up and shoot you if you don't do it", _that's_ a threat.Jul 19 18:34
twitterLefty is a liar, tacone, just ignore him.  Any judge will look at the pile of crap he left at BN and laugh him out.Jul 19 18:35
LeftyYou seem to have trouble with common English words. Are you not a native speaker?Jul 19 18:35
taconei think so twitter. i was just interested if there was more serious stuff.Jul 19 18:35
LeftyWell, you don't know much, tacone.Jul 19 18:35
taconeLefty: not native. and slow, as you noted.Jul 19 18:35
LeftyNo, they won't twit, not at all. I used the site as it was intended to be used.Jul 19 18:35
HivenGlavenand your such an expert in these matter too twitterJul 19 18:35
twitterYou won't find out anything real talking to Lefty.  He's just pumping for more dirt.Jul 19 18:35
LeftyOh, I've got all the dirt I need.Jul 19 18:36
taconei see.Jul 19 18:36
Leftyyeah, twitter's a real legal eagle.Jul 19 18:36
taconemy opinion is you dig for more.Jul 19 18:36
LeftyHey, Willy, want to define "preponderance of the evidence" for us?Jul 19 18:36
HivenGlaventhere is enough "dirt" from roy to instigate a class action :DJul 19 18:36
taconegood luck with your court matters, i'm disconnecting.Jul 19 18:36
LeftyI don't recall asking for your ignorant opinion, tacone, but thanks for putting your meaningless two cents in anyway!Jul 19 18:37
LeftyBye!Jul 19 18:37
HivenGlavenits what OJ was convicted with in his civil wrongfull death caseJul 19 18:37
LeftyDon't let the serial port hit you in the ass on your way out!Jul 19 18:37
*tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 19 18:38
Muttleyso what was the details they posted about you?Jul 19 18:38
LeftyI thought he'd _never_ leave.Jul 19 18:38
Muttley David "Lefty" SchlesingerJul 19 18:38
MuttleyACCESS Co., Ltd.Jul 19 18:38
Muttley1188 East Arques AvenueJul 19 18:38
MuttleySunnyvale, CA 94085Jul 19 18:38
MuttleyUSAJul 19 18:38
Muttley408-400-3000Jul 19 18:38
Muttley?Jul 19 18:38
LeftyOne of Roy's trollettes attempted to intimidate me--around my criticism of your little deity, Stallman--by posting the contact details for my company, phone numbers, etc.Jul 19 18:39
HivenGlavenwhat was the intent of the post ? the stated intent that isJul 19 18:39
LeftyAfter I'd made it excruciatingly clear that I represented no one here but myself.Jul 19 18:39
HivenGlavenRoy's done the same thing before to others as well, and been wrong.Jul 19 18:39
LeftyYes, thanks for reposting it here, too!Jul 19 18:39
LeftyIs it not clear that you can't intimidate me that way?Jul 19 18:40
Muttleyintimidate you?Jul 19 18:40
LeftyThat you simply annoy me, and that I'm going to take it out on Roy?Jul 19 18:40
MuttleyI got that from your websiteJul 19 18:40
Muttleyif you don't want the information in the public domain why put it online?Jul 19 18:40
LeftyWell, posting it into a comment is what convinced me that there was no hope of reaching some sort of agreement with Roy.Jul 19 18:40
HivenGlavenfrom his web site did it say for you to call his boss and complain about him ?Jul 19 18:41
LeftyHe interfered, or attempted to, with my empolyment one.Jul 19 18:41
HivenGlavenaffecting his career and financial future and reputation in the industryJul 19 18:41
MuttleyI've yet to find that commentJul 19 18:41
LeftyNow his little hyena pack (and that's _you_ I'm talking about, Muttley) are trying it again.Jul 19 18:41
LeftyIt won't work, knock yourself out.Jul 19 18:41
LeftyCall em. Tell 'em "Lefty's being mean to us!"Jul 19 18:41
MuttleyI did find his apology and don't really see much acknowledgement of maliceJul 19 18:42
LeftyThey'll say, "Well, he's a private citizen, and he can do what he likes on his own time. Why are you calling us?"Jul 19 18:42
LeftyThere's a difference between putting it online for legitimate use, and posting it here or on BN as part of an ongoing effort to intimidate and harass.Jul 19 18:43
Leftyo you have difficulty grasping that?Jul 19 18:43
HivenGlavenclear as day to meJul 19 18:43
Muttleywell as I said, I've not seen the comment and you don't want to post the url so I don't know what was really saidJul 19 18:43
LeftyMuttley, you really don't know anything about libel.Jul 19 18:43
LeftyI'm not a public figure.Jul 19 18:43
LeftyI don't have to show malice on Roy's part.Jul 19 18:43
LeftyOr didn't you _know_ that?Jul 19 18:44
LeftyNot that I can't easily show it. I mean, look at his comments.Jul 19 18:44
Muttleyreally? you make yourself sound pretty important on your websiteJul 19 18:44
Muttleyyou could pass as a public figureJul 19 18:44
HivenGlavenso what Muttley ?Jul 19 18:44
LeftyIt didn't seem that difficult to me, either, HivenGlaven. Muttley seems pretty slow, too.Jul 19 18:44
LeftyWant me to define it again for you, Muttley?Jul 19 18:44
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MuttleyLefty: no it's ok.Jul 19 18:45
LeftyI'm not a public figure.Jul 19 18:45
*desudesudesu is now known as desu_Jul 19 18:45
HivenGlavenMuttley by your logic anyone with a facebook account is a public figure, I say "go firuge"?Jul 19 18:45
LeftyBut, since I can demonstrate plenty of malice, what's your point here?Jul 19 18:46
MuttleyHivenGlaven: eh?Jul 19 18:46
LeftyAssuming there was one...Jul 19 18:46
MuttleyHivenGlaven: that's not my logic at allJul 19 18:46
MuttleyI'm not going to mass paste from his site but he mentions being on lots of boards and having given plenty of presentationsJul 19 18:46
Muttleyin the open source community surely you're a public figureJul 19 18:47
HivenGlavengreat thats good, I dont see that as making him a public figureJul 19 18:47
HivenGlavenmabey a busy figureJul 19 18:47
Leftyhahahahahahaha!Jul 19 18:48
Lefty"In the open source community you're a public figure"?Jul 19 18:48
LeftyAre you perhaps aware that, in defamation law, "public figure" has a specific sort of a definition....?Jul 19 18:48
MuttleyLefty: it's easier if you use copy and paste, then you don't miss important wordsJul 19 18:49
Muttley"a personage of great public interest or familiarity"Jul 19 18:49
LeftyWell, when I'm dealing with someone with your level of intelligence, you're going to miss stuff anyway, so why should I work hard for you?Jul 19 18:49
LeftyI can keep track, you can too if you work on that attention span and reading comprehension.Jul 19 18:50
Muttleyyour line of business/trade which you feel may have been damaged in involves the open source community, in which you're a personage of public interest of familiarityJul 19 18:50
LeftyYeah, the public is neither greatly familiar with me, nor do they have a great interest. Satisfied?Jul 19 18:50
MuttleyI have to wonder if the picture of your on your blog is actually your dadJul 19 18:50
LeftySigh. You're an idiot, Muttley.Jul 19 18:50
Muttleybecause your level of insults really are child likeJul 19 18:50
LeftyNo, that's me.Jul 19 18:51
Muttleydo you have that strange diesese where you age backwards?Jul 19 18:51
LeftyThat's because I'm keeping that at a level you can manage.Jul 19 18:51
LeftyWhy don't you call me a "stupidhead"?Jul 19 18:51
LeftyThat'll _really_ upset me.Jul 19 18:51
Muttleybecause that would be your levelJul 19 18:51
Muttleyso far I've not tried to insult your intellectJul 19 18:51
Muttleyonly your maturityJul 19 18:51
LeftyWell, it'd represent a big improvement for you.Jul 19 18:52
LeftyBy the way, he's removed it, I think--which won't help him, I have an accurate, time-stamped copy....Jul 19 18:52
Muttleyseriosuly, when you have your day in court please let me know I'll be there to watchJul 19 18:52
HivenGlavenI find it annoying that people like Roy who does not work, but spends all his time trying to destroy people and businesses that employ tens of thousands of people feed and house those people, pay taxes and contribute to the economy. Roy will destroy them because he does not agree with them.Jul 19 18:52
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desu_HivenGlaven: and you're doing exactly that right now...Jul 19 18:53
splosionoshi. I just check my discharge book. I'm 1.84m tall, apparently. Lefty, you just got one-uppedJul 19 18:53
splosions/check/checkedJul 19 18:53
HivenGlavenFor someone to suggest that they call someone elses boss and make trouble for them makes me quike ill really.Jul 19 18:53
LeftyBut Roy, in a fit of pique yesterday claimed that ACCESS and the LiMo Foundation were engaging in criminal activities with regard to my posting here.Jul 19 18:53
LeftyI don't think he's got the evidence, do you?Jul 19 18:53
LeftyYeah, I think it'Jul 19 18:54
LeftyYeah, I think it's disgusting, HivenGlaven.Jul 19 18:54
trmancohello _GoblinJul 19 18:54
_GoblinHi!Jul 19 18:54
LeftySeems like Muttley's just fine with it, since he reposted the same information here.Jul 19 18:54
desu_helloJul 19 18:54
LeftyYou think that's right, Muttley? Trying to get someone fired over a disagreement on a Sunday afternoon in IRC?Jul 19 18:54
_Goblinwhats happening? anything exciting?Jul 19 18:55
LeftyHello, desu!Jul 19 18:55
splosionGoblin: DRAMAJul 19 18:55
desu__Goblin: nothing much... just a few trolls...Jul 19 18:55
_Goblinoh dear....Jul 19 18:55
HivenGlavenNo all SNAFU here Goblin :)Jul 19 18:55
LeftyNihongo wo hanasemasu ka?Jul 19 18:55
desu_inaiJul 19 18:55
trmancow00tJul 19 18:55
_GoblinTalking of drama, BB was quite good this weekend...Jul 19 18:55
splosionLefty is asserting that the internet is serious business. Others disagree. Arguments ensueJul 19 18:55
LeftyTrolls!? Where?Jul 19 18:55
desu_see those tall, ugly, green guys with the clubs?Jul 19 18:56
HivenGlavenYes, the internet is not serious, there is no money or effort tied up in it at all.Jul 19 18:56
_GoblinBallmer?Jul 19 18:56
desu_they're trollsJul 19 18:56
LeftyNo, I'm asserting that perpetrating libel in the guise of journalism, and trying to screw with people's live over technical differences of opinion is serious business.Jul 19 18:56
_Goblinoh no, thats chairs not clubsJul 19 18:56
trmancopointy ears?Jul 19 18:56
LeftyEvidently splosion has a different view. Want to elucidate?Jul 19 18:57
fewaHivenGlaven, says _Mutex_ who has been trolling for monthsJul 19 18:57
HivenGlavenby your definition sure im a troll, as I say things you dont agree with.Jul 19 18:57
Leftysplosion, would you enjoy it if I called your boss to "get some answers" about what you're doing here?Jul 19 18:57
fewaHivenGlaven, and ban evadingJul 19 18:58
HivenGlavenSo i guess like normal you'll kick me now right ?Jul 19 18:58
splosionLefty: go right ahead. I think he'd be rather amusedJul 19 18:58
LeftyOr posted the contact information for _your_ place of work?Jul 19 18:58
LeftyThat just fine with you?Jul 19 18:58
LeftyYou think that's appropriate?Jul 19 18:58
_GoblinThis is like an episode of HollyoaksJul 19 18:58
HivenGlavenif they actually worked for a living it wouldJul 19 18:58
_GoblinMoving on.....messing around with Compiz and Mepis for a nieghbour......Jul 19 18:59
_Goblinnot a nice combination at the moment....Jul 19 18:59
HivenGlaven_Goblin it is after all what this irc is for, or would you prefer only "yes" people here all stroking each other ?Jul 19 18:59
desu_lulzJul 19 18:59
desu_just use kwin instead :PJul 19 18:59
LeftyHow about if I called Roy's thesis advisor at the University of Manchester and asked whether it was true that they gave post-grad degrees in Defamation?Jul 19 18:59
splosionLefty: the contact information that's public knowledge? SheeshJul 19 18:59
LeftyStill good fun?Jul 19 19:00
_GoblinHivenGlaven: Thats disgusting, please if you want to talk about stroking others go elsewhere.Jul 19 19:00
desu__Goblin: why isn't HivenGlaven on your ignore list yet?Jul 19 19:00
HivenGlavenI mean your ego !!! what were you thinking ??Jul 19 19:00
_Goblinand you can tell my boss that....Jul 19 19:00
_Goblinoh....I am my own can tell me.Jul 19 19:01
LeftyIt's being public isn't the point. Should I post the name, email address and phone number of Roy's thesis advisor on every site I can find that dislikes Roy, if that makes the ethical conundrum here easier for you to grasp...Jul 19 19:01
LeftyThat's all public.Jul 19 19:01
_Goblindesu_: I like to mess with them once in a while......Jul 19 19:01
desu__Goblin: no uJul 19 19:01
desu_:<Jul 19 19:02
HivenGlavenand then add a comment that everyone should message his prof and complain about RoyJul 19 19:02
*desu_ pat-pats Lefty Jul 19 19:02
_Goblindesu_ I like qouting their comments when proving how desperate MS faithful are.Jul 19 19:02
LeftySo, what do you think, Goblin? That sounds reasonable, or a bit excessive to you?Jul 19 19:02
LeftyRight.Jul 19 19:02
LeftyAnyone want to step up to the plate on that?Jul 19 19:02
_GoblinLefty: cave quid dicis, quando, et cui.Jul 19 19:03
desu__Goblin: feeding the trolls means they win :<Jul 19 19:03
LeftySo, no position pro or con, huh?Jul 19 19:03
desu_Lefty: you're the one who called RMS sexist, aren't you? ¬_¬Jul 19 19:03
LeftyI think you folks musta been raised by wolves or something.Jul 19 19:03
splosionTotally fine. It's serious businessJul 19 19:03
HivenGlavenwhatever you do, the people who are right will winJul 19 19:03
_Goblindesu_ Not if you dont engage them in proper conversation...I can be just as silly back at them....I have a few pastes for generic remarks....just a quick hotkey away....Jul 19 19:03
desu_ohJul 19 19:04
LeftyNo, I called RMS' stupid little joke "sexist". Because it was.Jul 19 19:04
desu_it was just humour, i guess :/Jul 19 19:04
LeftyAnd it was wrong and out of place.Jul 19 19:04
splosionBecause *some people thought* it was, you meanJul 19 19:04
_Goblinwait for it.......Jul 19 19:04
desu_though i agree, women are retarded when it comes to computing, considering what i've seen in my colleagues ¬_¬Jul 19 19:04
LeftyHe should never be asked to do a keynote again, as far as I'm concerned, unless he acknowledges the issues, apologizes and corrects them.Jul 19 19:05
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_Goblinhow long before a toe jam crack.......Jul 19 19:05
Omar87Hello there, fellows?Jul 19 19:05
_GoblinHiJul 19 19:05
LeftyVirtually everyone in the audience thought it was. The women absolutely did.Jul 19 19:05
desu_heyJul 19 19:05
Muttley_Goblin: you're going to jam your toe where?Jul 19 19:05
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LeftyOh, desu, you _are_ a fuckwit.Jul 19 19:05
LeftyI can only assume that you'Jul 19 19:05
_GoblinMuttley: Probably.......Jul 19 19:05
desu_that i...?Jul 19 19:05
LeftyI can only assume that you've never actually _met_ a woman.Jul 19 19:05
desu_i have... i've met too many to know that for a fact women are retarded when it comes to computersJul 19 19:06
splosionSo, rms shouldn't be allowed to speak in public again till he apologises for something that *some people* thought was sexist?Jul 19 19:06
splosionSo, what do you think, Lefty? That sounds reasonable, or a bit excessive to you?Jul 19 19:06
LeftyI've never commented on Mr. Stallman's physical idiosyncracies, not ever.Jul 19 19:06
LeftyNo, not excessive at all, splosion. Someone should have done it years ago.Jul 19 19:06
LeftyAre you aware that representation of woman in FLOSS is 2%?Jul 19 19:07
desu_Lefty: can you name ONE well know women hacker?Jul 19 19:07
_GoblinIm a woman and so is my wife.Jul 19 19:07
desu_<Lefty> Are you aware that representation of woman in FLOSS is 2%? <--- yes, and the reason for that is pretty visibleJul 19 19:07
desu_D:Jul 19 19:07
LeftySure, Danese Cooper, for starts.Jul 19 19:07
*desu_ apologises to _Goblin Jul 19 19:07
_GoblinlolJul 19 19:07
LeftyChani's another.Jul 19 19:07
LeftyCeleste Lyn Paul.Jul 19 19:07
_GoblinMonty Python humour...Jul 19 19:07
desu_-.-Jul 19 19:07
LeftyCan you name the maintainer of the Linux kernel?Jul 19 19:08
_Goblinwhat is this, who wants to be a millionare?Jul 19 19:08
_Hicham_there is a lot of women hackerJul 19 19:08
desu_alan cox, iircJul 19 19:08
Muttleyhis wifeJul 19 19:08
desu_or was it monty python?Jul 19 19:08
_Goblinlefty: can I go 50/50Jul 19 19:08
_Hicham_this is really a pointless discussionJul 19 19:08
desu_or rms, i forgetJul 19 19:08
LeftyThe reason for is, desu, you moron, is that jokes like Stallman's make them _not want to be involved_Jul 19 19:08
Omar87_Hicham_: Isn't it?Jul 19 19:08
_Hicham_who is still talking like that nowadays ?Jul 19 19:08
Muttleybut the important question remains.Jul 19 19:08
LeftyWrong. Andrew Morton. Whom I know.Jul 19 19:08
_Goblin_hicham_ if it wastes the trolls time it isnt worthless.Jul 19 19:09
Muttleyare any of them hot?Jul 19 19:09
LeftyDo you know him?Jul 19 19:09
desu_the reason for that is, Lefty, you moron, that they are in fact complete morons.Jul 19 19:09
LeftyDo you know Greg K-H?Jul 19 19:09
desu_nopeJul 19 19:09
LeftyDo you know Ted T'so?Jul 19 19:09
desu_i have met danese cooper, thoughJul 19 19:09
Muttleyhot or not?Jul 19 19:09
LeftyMuttley, you're a moron.Jul 19 19:09
_GoblinLefty: I met Stephen Fry once.Jul 19 19:09
desu_but just because you know over nine thousand people into hacking does not mean you're always rightJul 19 19:09
LeftyYou guys have nothing to do with FLOSS.Jul 19 19:09
_Hicham_go to debian womens page, you will see a lot of hot women MuttleyJul 19 19:09
splosionI told my girlfriend about rms' joke. She saw the religious meaning in it immediately. I showed her your endless bitchign about it, and she said you seem a bit of a prick, Lefty. She uses Linux, too. Bummer.Jul 19 19:09
Leftyyou're a bunch of backseat drivers.Jul 19 19:10
_Goblinlol.Jul 19 19:10
_GoblinthanksJul 19 19:10
LeftyI just named three of the most important kernel developers, you haven't heard of a single one.Jul 19 19:10
splosionAnother call from authority.Jul 19 19:10
_Goblinoh dearJul 19 19:10
desu__Hicham_: lies... hot women are never into computing :(Jul 19 19:10
_Goblinyoure great lefty....Jul 19 19:10
_GoblinYou are my heroJul 19 19:10
desu_Lefty: i have heard of andrew mortonJul 19 19:10
LeftyThey're hot as hell, Muttley, but they wouldn't look twice at an asshole like you.Jul 19 19:10
HivenGlavenI went to school and hacked z80's with craig southerenJul 19 19:10
desu_but againJul 19 19:10
desu_<desu_> but just because you know over nine thousand people into hacking does not mean you're always rightJul 19 19:10
splosionAppeal from authority, desuJul 19 19:11
LeftyI'm not interested in your grilf's opinion, splosion. I mean, she's stupid enough to go out with _you_, what's _that_ say?Jul 19 19:11
_GoblinLefty: You are the best, can I keep you as a pet?Jul 19 19:11
desu_<Lefty> They're hot as hell, Muttley, but they wouldn't look twice at an asshole like you. <--- is that the reason you're raising such an issue over this? just so that you can get into their pants by showing how feminist you are?Jul 19 19:11
LeftyOh, you little parasites can't stand for anyone to criticize Stallman, even when they're clearly correct.Jul 19 19:11
desu_because they wouldn't look twice at an asshole like you, Lefty?Jul 19 19:12
Muttley_Hicham_: damn, you're right. why don't any of them ever work at the places I've worked at ;)Jul 19 19:12
_GoblinlolJul 19 19:12
LeftyYou wouldn't like me as a pet, Goblin, I bite. Hard. Just ask Roy.Jul 19 19:12
_Goblinlefty: Dont get will do your blood pressure no good...Jul 19 19:12
splosionYour whole stance on the rms thing is pathetic, Lefty. You're trying to be some sort of courageous white knight, but really you're just being a pitiful, relentless, whining little bitch about it.Jul 19 19:12
*Chips_B_Malroy (i=4731c09d@gateway/web/freenode/x-c48a42572fa11b0d) has joined #boycottnovellJul 19 19:12
_Goblinhi chips..youre just in time...we have a cracker here.....Jul 19 19:12
_Goblinmeet Lefty....he's great.Jul 19 19:13
LeftyWho's "annoyed" Goblin? I'm laughing our ass off at you.Jul 19 19:13
_Hicham_see this : 19 19:13
Chips_B_MalroyHi Goblin, allJul 19 19:13
_Goblinthanks leftyJul 19 19:13
LeftyHey, it's the Chump!Jul 19 19:13
LeftyHi,Chimp, want a nice banana?Jul 19 19:13
Chips_B_MalroyIts Lefty, the ACCESS shillJul 19 19:13
_Goblinwhere have we heard that?  Microsoft watch maybe?Jul 19 19:13
Chips_B_MalroyHi LeftyJul 19 19:13
_GoblinChips: Lefty's my pet....I claimed him...:)Jul 19 19:14
LeftyOoh, watch that! Roy got scared into taking it down overnight, not that it'll help him.Jul 19 19:14
desu_lol, like, FOUR gals at debian?Jul 19 19:14
Leftysigh.Jul 19 19:14
Leftysee?Jul 19 19:14
desu_compared to what? over nine thousand other guys?Jul 19 19:14
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, yes.  Its sad when a LInux applicance company resorts to shilling of the lowest orderJul 19 19:14
LeftyThis is _exactly_ why I called Stallman on his stupid joke.Jul 19 19:14
_Goblingood for you.Jul 19 19:14
desu_Lefty: you're just trying to be a bitch, trying to show that you support feminists.Jul 19 19:15
LeftyIt encourages dolts like you to act like assholes, and that means fewer women in FLOSS.Jul 19 19:15
Chips_B_Malroyyou insulted RMS over someghing if minor valueJul 19 19:15
desu_Lefty: so, you want more women in FOSS? they'll still not go out with you, though...Jul 19 19:15
Leftydesu, you're just trying to get into Stallman's pants.Jul 19 19:15
Omar87Lefty: Don't you have anything to do than loading the channel with your pointless B-S?Jul 19 19:15
desu_Lefty: nice try, asshole... but i'm not gay.Jul 19 19:15
LeftyKiss my ass, Shemp, I can _criticise_ anyone I like.Jul 19 19:15
_Goblinlol...Lefty I think youre jealous.Jul 19 19:15
LeftyNot me.Jul 19 19:16
_Hicham_ 19 19:16
LeftyHe's all yours.Jul 19 19:16
_Goblinlefty: I am surprised that someone of your awesome intelligence has not realized that everyone here is simply making fun of you...Jul 19 19:16
splosionHey Lefty, women don't belong in FOSS. They belong in the kitchen.Jul 19 19:16
_Hicham_great news : solang is now available for fedora 11 usersJul 19 19:16
desu_<_Goblin> lol...Lefty I think youre jealous. <--- seems like Lefty's playing hard to want...Jul 19 19:16
Muttley_Hicham_: with a url like that I was expecting photos chicks in tight little tux tshirtsJul 19 19:16
MuttleyI'm disappointed :(Jul 19 19:17
LeftyI'm surprised that you haven't realized that I'm collecting all of this to demoonstrate what a bunch of worthless toads all you folks are.Jul 19 19:17
Chips_B_MalroyPersonally, Lefty, I think Roy, has been very nice to you,  Its obvious you are here shilling on behave of ACCESS.  Roy has already complained to the FTC about MS Shills.  Only reason I bet he hasn't complained about ACCESS shilling, is they are Linux applicanceJul 19 19:17
_GoblinIf Lefty wants to get close to Stallman, maybe we could email him on Lefty's behalf...?Jul 19 19:17
LeftyChimp, you think you read a lot of pro-Mono stuff on my web site. Who cares what you "think"?Jul 19 19:17
splosionLefty: make sure to snip that bit of the conversation where you failed to grok sarcasmJul 19 19:17
LeftyGo for it, Goblin.Jul 19 19:17
_GoblinLefty, go for it....All you've done is be insulting...Stallmans comments have nothing to do with us.  You are simply trolling and we are wasting your time.Jul 19 19:17
Chips_B_MalroyMyself, I would file a complaint Against ACCESS for sending you over here to ShillJul 19 19:18
desu_Lefty: your just being here shows how much you fail.Jul 19 19:18
LeftyRoy's "FTC complaint" is ludicrous. It definitely won't go anywhere.Jul 19 19:18
_GoblinI too am logging this.....You'll be on Openbytes shortly.Jul 19 19:18
Omar87Lefty: Don't you have anything better to do than loading the channel with your pointless B-S?Jul 19 19:18
LeftyHe claimed that ACCESS and the LiMo Foundation were engaged in criminal activity, a claim you'd seem to be repeating here, Chump.Jul 19 19:18
Chips_B_Malroydon't get this guy any bandwidth GoblinJul 19 19:18
LeftyGot some evidence to go with that?Jul 19 19:18
desu_Muttley: it's okay... most chicks into linux aren't hot either, anyways...Jul 19 19:18
_GoblinOmar87: No he doesnt....Jul 19 19:18
Muttleydesu_: some of those debian ones would give a dog a boneJul 19 19:19
_GoblinMy wife is....she uses Mandriva!Jul 19 19:19
desu_Lefty: excuse my ignorance, but can you give me a link to the page where he claims that?Jul 19 19:19
LeftyNo, I've got a lot of free time to engage in philiosophical discussion with al you deep thinkers.Jul 19 19:19
LeftyGreat, huh?Jul 19 19:19
desu_Muttley: i said "most", not all...Jul 19 19:19
MuttleyheheJul 19 19:19
Omar87Lefty: For example, one really great favor you can do to humanity is go have a quick little sip of cyanide.Jul 19 19:19
Chips_B_MalroyI bet you doJul 19 19:20
_Goblin:)Jul 19 19:20
desu_2 out of the 7 gals we have in our class of 60 are pretty hot in fact...Jul 19 19:20
LeftyHe removed it overnight, desu. Doesn't matter, I still have a time-stamped copy.Jul 19 19:20
LeftyPeople may want to talk to him about that.Jul 19 19:20
Omar87Lefty: Or jump off Brooklyn Bridge...Jul 19 19:20
_Goblingreat.Jul 19 19:20
desu_Lefty: can i have a copy of that please? i haven't seen it yet...Jul 19 19:20
LeftyMake me, Omar.Jul 19 19:20
LeftyNo, desu, you can't.Jul 19 19:20
_GoblinLefty....if I make a room will you come and chat there too?Jul 19 19:20
_Hicham_what a great conversation _GoblinJul 19 19:20
Chips_B_MalroyWhy doesn't Roy dropkick this turd off the channel?Jul 19 19:20
desu_well, no evidence coming from you, either.Jul 19 19:21
LeftyIt's got nothing to do with you, you're just a bystander.Jul 19 19:21
Leftysomething wrong with here, Goblin?Jul 19 19:21
LeftyI'm quite comfy.Jul 19 19:21
_Goblinnothing at all...Jul 19 19:21
HivenGlavenChip like he does to everyone who does not agree with him ?Jul 19 19:21
MuttleyChips_B_Malroy: if he did that then I'd just get to listen to you guys bitch about MS and Mono ;)Jul 19 19:21
_GoblinI thought you were my pet now.Jul 19 19:21
Chips_B_Malroyso you have no friends LeftyJul 19 19:21
desu_Lefty: okay, in your own words, what exactly happened?Jul 19 19:21
Omar87Lefty: I'm not interested in wasting my time convincing/forcing you to do anything. I'm just giving you a brotherly advice man.Jul 19 19:21
LeftyI don't have to show you my evidence, desu. I do have to show it to a couple of legal departments tomorrow.Jul 19 19:21
_Hicham_they are lucky that schestowitz is not hereJul 19 19:22
*desu_ agreesJul 19 19:22
_Goblintrue.Jul 19 19:22
Chips_B_Malroyyou drinking a lot these days lefty?Jul 19 19:22
_Goblinwhere is he?Jul 19 19:22
HivenGlavenI bet he is here.Jul 19 19:22
desu_rl, probably...Jul 19 19:22
LeftyChimp, you're an idiot. I've got _hundreds_ of friends. I just spent the last week in Gran Canaria with them.Jul 19 19:22
LeftyWhat are you talking about?Jul 19 19:22
_GoblinlolJul 19 19:22
desu_ouch... seems like Chips_B_Malroy touched a nerve...Jul 19 19:22
splosionLet's have a more intellectual discussion, shall, we gents? Call a truce? Anyone have some good ideas for a new subject? Lefty's face is an entire goat. How about that?Jul 19 19:23
_GoblinIve got thousands of old are you lefty?Jul 19 19:23
Omar87Chips_B_Malroy: No man, Wine and Vodka are not that powerful.. He's probably doing Cocaine of Heroin.Jul 19 19:23
Chips_B_MalroyyesJul 19 19:23
HivenGlavenhe said, he's going to the gym as it closes are 7:00Jul 19 19:23
Omar87Chips_B_Malroy: *or* Heroin.Jul 19 19:23
HivenGlavendamn my really really good memoryJul 19 19:23
Chips_B_MalroyOmar87  I think he is a speederJul 19 19:23
Omar87lolJul 19 19:23
LeftyI told you: Roy, in a fit of pique yesterday, printed a story claiming that ACCESS and the LiMo Foundation were engqaged in "Criminal activity" based on my posting comments on a site designed to let people post comments.Jul 19 19:23
_GoblinlolJul 19 19:24
_Goblinoh dearJul 19 19:24
LeftyNo, I don't drink, Chimp.Jul 19 19:24
_Goblinreally?  You a silicon based lifeform?Jul 19 19:24
Chips_B_Malroyyou are a shill for ACCESS and have printed the prove on this siteJul 19 19:24
LeftyI'm 53, and I know _lots_ of people in the FLOSS community. It's what I _do_.Jul 19 19:24
Omar87Lefty: Oh wait! You have LOTS of friends? Then what the hell are you doing with us??Jul 19 19:24
Chips_B_Malroyyou have permission from your bossJul 19 19:24
LeftyPermission from my boss for _what_, Chimp?Jul 19 19:25
_Goblinomar87: Maybe he means us.Jul 19 19:25
LeftyIt's Sunday, I'm on my own time.Jul 19 19:25
Chips_B_MalroyActually, Lefty, unlike you I do have real friendsJul 19 19:25
HivenGlavenarnt goblin's another name for a troll ? or is that hobgoblin ?? LOLJul 19 19:25
LeftyI don't need to ask my boss for permission.Jul 19 19:25
_GoblinyepJul 19 19:25
_GoblinAlthough, I'm very friendly....Jul 19 19:25
splosion"[19:45] <Lefty> I don't need to ask my boss for permission."  -- Lefty talking about hookersJul 19 19:25
Chips_B_Malroyeveryone remember reading that about his bosses permission?Jul 19 19:25
_Goblinask Andre Da Costa.Jul 19 19:25
LeftyLook, Chimp, if you think that telling me I have no friends, when I spent the last week hangin out with (a random selection)...Jul 19 19:25
LeftyMatthew GarretJul 19 19:26
LeftyDave NearyJul 19 19:26
_GoblinlolJul 19 19:26
LeftyMatt ZimmermanJul 19 19:26
LeftyPaul CutlerJul 19 19:26
_Goblinwhat is this?Jul 19 19:26
desu_orgy~!Jul 19 19:26
Omar87_Goblin: Also, maybe his friends got sick of how much of a pain in the butt he is.Jul 19 19:26
LeftyCeleste Lyn PaulJul 19 19:26
_Goblina how many friends competition?Jul 19 19:26
LeftyAndre KlapperJul 19 19:26
LeftyChristian SchallerJul 19 19:26
LeftyAdrian de GrootJul 19 19:26
_GoblinHulk HoganJul 19 19:26
_GoblinParis HiltonJul 19 19:26
LeftyTim JanikJul 19 19:26
_GoblinBritney SpearsJul 19 19:26
LeftyKarl LattimerJul 19 19:26
_GoblinPaul GaddJul 19 19:26
LeftyRob BradfordJul 19 19:26
Chips_B_MalroyI say this nutter has gone too far, and Roy would be well within his rights to file a complaint after all the threatsJul 19 19:26
desu_lol, ignore my previous comment, plox... some of you might take it way too seriously than intended :/Jul 19 19:26
LeftyRob TaylorJul 19 19:26
_GoblinMichael JacksonJul 19 19:26
LeftyRob McQueenJul 19 19:26
LeftyPhilippe KalafJul 19 19:27
_GoblinOJ SimpsonJul 19 19:27
Omar87Hellen HuntJul 19 19:27
LeftyAaron BockoverJul 19 19:27
LeftyChaniJul 19 19:27
Omar87Ben StillerJul 19 19:27
LeftyStormy PetersJul 19 19:27
_GoblinJackie ChanJul 19 19:27
desu_Pamela AndersonJul 19 19:27
_GoblinBoy GeorgeJul 19 19:27
Omar87Serena WilliamsJul 19 19:27
_GoblinlolJul 19 19:27
Omar87David Letterman.Jul 19 19:27
Omar87Larry KingJul 19 19:27
LeftyWEll, Chimp wanted to know about my friends, right?Jul 19 19:27
_Goblin....Kylie MinogueJul 19 19:27
splosion[19:48] <Lefty> All of the people I just named. I hate them.Jul 19 19:27
LeftyAnd let Roy file a complaint.Jul 19 19:27
splosionThat's shockingJul 19 19:27
Omar87Alex KavaJul 19 19:27
LeftyTo whom?Jul 19 19:27
LeftyAbout what?Jul 19 19:27
Omar87Dan BrownJul 19 19:27
mikankunlol this is the most entertainment I've ever seen in this roomJul 19 19:27
Muttleybecareful, some of those people you named by sue for defamation ;)Jul 19 19:28
MuttleywoahJul 19 19:28
MuttleymightJul 19 19:28
LeftyWell, see, I'm bringing you more than Roy ever has. You'll like it when I own the site.Jul 19 19:28
_GoblinMuttley: How?Jul 19 19:28
HivenGlavenso much better than people posting how much they hate MS 24/7Jul 19 19:28
Muttleywow, total keyboard spazJul 19 19:28
LeftyLots of pictures of kittens,I think.Jul 19 19:28
Chips_B_Malroyhe needs help, so he comes here for the help, I guessJul 19 19:28
Muttley_Goblin: because he said they were his friends ;)Jul 19 19:28
Omar87lolJul 19 19:28
splosionCan we go back to name-dropping? I know how to spell Arnold SchwarzeneggerJul 19 19:28
LeftySo, tell me: do any of you know who _any_ of those folks I named were?Jul 19 19:29
_GoblinMuttley: Do you understand the defamation laws?Jul 19 19:29
desu_can't we have a civil discussion here?Jul 19 19:29
Lefty(There's a point here.)Jul 19 19:29
HivenGlavenhow ???Jul 19 19:29
_Hicham_ 19 19:29
desu_BRING IN THE STRIPPERS!Jul 19 19:29
Chips_B_Malroyeverything Lefty does is to show how important he isJul 19 19:29
LeftyOh, and I saw Danese Cooper at the Community Leadership Summit yesterday.Jul 19 19:29
mikankunStormy Peters is the only one I recognizedJul 19 19:29
_GoblinI saw Elvis....Jul 19 19:29
splosionWOW, Lefty, yet another appeal to authority. You really know how to win a debateJul 19 19:29
Muttley_Goblin: oh god, please tell me you're joking because I was  and it's almost 3am here and I'm too tired to go through this again ;)Jul 19 19:29
_Goblinlol.Jul 19 19:29
splosions/to/fromJul 19 19:29
Chips_B_Malroysee how many friends Lefty makes hereJul 19 19:29
LeftyOkay, Stormy is the executive director of the GNOME Foundation.Jul 19 19:30
_GoblinYes, I think its safe to say in a UK village of 200 population, I didnt see Elvis.Jul 19 19:30
LeftyThe rest are _extremely well-known hackers and developers, from both the GNOME and KDE communities_Jul 19 19:30
Chips_B_Malroyso why all the free time now Lefty, are you being fired at ACCESS or somethingJul 19 19:30
Lefty_Anyone_ involved in FLOSS has heard of most of those folks.Jul 19 19:30
MuttleyI'm sure there's an x-men joke in thereJul 19 19:30
LeftyYou people, of course, have not.Jul 19 19:30
_Goblinof courseJul 19 19:30
Chips_B_Malroynamedropping again to prove how big he isJul 19 19:31
splosionLefty knows more FOSS people than you do, _Goblin. That means he's right about everything. ALl the time.Jul 19 19:31
Omar87Okay, I also know Jim CarryJul 19 19:31
Chips_B_Malroycondisending to the maxJul 19 19:31
_Goblinoh yeah,.....sorry I forgot...Jul 19 19:31
_Goblin:)Jul 19 19:31
LeftyBecause you're not involved. You just like to pretend you're involved with your "advocacy", which is perceived universally as a worthless waste of time.Jul 19 19:31
*Muttley goes back to trying to remember the password to the webserverJul 19 19:31
_GoblinokJul 19 19:31
Omar87Jeniffer LopezJul 19 19:31
splosion"[19:50] <Lefty> You people, of course, have not." -- Lefty on taking drugsJul 19 19:31
_GoblinlolJul 19 19:31
LeftyChimpo, don't you get it? I DON'T WANT TO MAKE FRIENDS HERE.Jul 19 19:31
Omar87Andy RoddicJul 19 19:31
Omar87Petter SamprasJul 19 19:32
mikankunnot knowing a list of names you posted has nothing to do with being involved in the communityJul 19 19:32
_Goblinthats probably just as well leftyJul 19 19:32
_Goblinlol#Jul 19 19:32
trmancothat's niceJul 19 19:32
desu_Lefty: then why are you here? :/Jul 19 19:32
Chips_B_Malroyyes, I get that, but I don't see anywhere online where you want to make friends, except with the other trolls like Gary FlatfishJul 19 19:32
_GoblinDesu_ Dont make sensible comments please.Jul 19 19:32
LeftyWhy not?Jul 19 19:32
LeftyIt's a good laugh watching you folks scurry around.Jul 19 19:32
desu__Goblin: why not? :<Jul 19 19:32
splosion"[19:52] <Lefty> Why not?" -- Lefty on being racistJul 19 19:32
Omar87Lefty: It's not like anyone in the world, let alone this channel, would be dying to have such pain the butt like you as friend. Am I right guys?Jul 19 19:33
Leftyyour idiot statements on women were something, desu.Jul 19 19:33
_Goblindesu_ lol. Because I am enjoying the madness of Lefty!Jul 19 19:33
David_LeeWasn't Lefty supposed to leave for the Jono Bacon's Community Leadership summit?Jul 19 19:33
desu_Lefty: it's true.Jul 19 19:33
desu_you know it as well as i do...Jul 19 19:33
Omar87to have such *a* *in* theJul 19 19:33
LeftyWell, Chimp, that's cause you're a dope, and you wouldn't know where to look.Jul 19 19:33
splosion"[19:52] <Lefty> your idiot statements on women were something, desu." -- Lefty on desu's positive attitudes towards feminismJul 19 19:33
desu_only one in a hundred of them can actually program.Jul 19 19:33
Chips_B_MalroyLefty becomes a Buddist and trys to learn Japanese so he can sux up to those who run ACCESSJul 19 19:33
desu_and i can bet any female will agree with me on thisJul 19 19:33
LeftyFabulous.Jul 19 19:33
_Goblinlefty: Please can you insult me a little, I feel left out.Jul 19 19:33
LeftyI've got a cold, I texted Jono to tell him I need to give it a miss.Jul 19 19:34
splosion"[19:53] <Lefty> Fabulous." -- Lefty on the NazisJul 19 19:34
Chips_B_Malroyhe will get around to you Goblin, just be patentJul 19 19:34
splosion"[19:54] <Lefty> I've got a cold, I texted Jono to tell him I need to give it a miss." -- Lefty on orgiesJul 19 19:34
LeftyYou can verify that I'm on the attendee list, if you're skeptical.Jul 19 19:34
_Goblinoh ok...Ill have a smoke then.Jul 19 19:34
Lefty"only one in a hundred of them can actually program."Jul 19 19:34
LeftyReally?Jul 19 19:34
trmanco_Goblin, smoking killsJul 19 19:34
desu_yesJul 19 19:34
_Hicham__Goblin : have another cigarette there ?Jul 19 19:35
desu_and, just for the record, i'm not talking about just writing codeJul 19 19:35
LeftySo, why is there such a higher percentage of women in security and proprietary programming than in FLOSS, hm?Jul 19 19:35
desu_Lefty: sources.Jul 19 19:35
desu_Lefty: sources please.Jul 19 19:35
desu_citation neededJul 19 19:35
fewaie your full of shitJul 19 19:35
David_LeeToo much noise, byeJul 19 19:35
_Hicham_Lefty is an experienced trollJul 19 19:35
Chips_B_MalroyHey Goblin,  did you read that Andre is Mr DEE, I found the link againJul 19 19:35
LeftyGet onto Google and do a search on FLOSSPOLS, desu. Read section 16.Jul 19 19:35
Omar87Lefty: What exactly are you trying to get to here?Jul 19 19:36
desu_Lefty: i'm not gonna do homework for you.Jul 19 19:36
desu_Lefty: link meJul 19 19:36
splosiona dateJul 19 19:36
Lefty_you_, Omar.Jul 19 19:36
Omar87Lefty: What does that have to do with Mono or Microsoft?Jul 19 19:36
LeftyI'm trying to get to _you_Jul 19 19:36
LeftyGet onto Google, you lazy dope.Jul 19 19:36
Chips_B_MalroyLefty, btw I live in Nevada if thats any help to youJul 19 19:36
desu_Lefty: fuck off this channel, you lazy assJul 19 19:36
Omar87Lefty: Or is it just a matter of pointlessly criticizing RMS?Jul 19 19:36
Chips_B_Malroyso if you want to threatren me or anythingJul 19 19:36
LeftyWhy would that be any help to me, Chump?Jul 19 19:37
LeftyJust another reason to stay the hell out of Nevada.Jul 19 19:37
splosion"[19:56] <Lefty> Why would that be any help to me, Chump?" --  Lefty on AfricaJul 19 19:37
Chips_B_Malroyyou know you like to threatren to sue and allJul 19 19:37
LeftyOh, make me, Bluto.Jul 19 19:37
splosion"[19:57] <Lefty> Just another reason to stay the hell out of Nevada." -- Lefty on the poorJul 19 19:37
mikankunlolJul 19 19:37
LeftyNo, I don't need to sue you, Chump. I've got little Roy for that.Jul 19 19:38
_Goblinand how will you do that lefty?Jul 19 19:39
Chips_B_MalroySorry its not closer to ACCESS, or we, and your boss could just sit down in person and have a nice discussion, would you like that?Jul 19 19:39
Leftyask Roy whether _he_ thinks I'm serious, hm?Jul 19 19:39
LeftyGo check the log.Jul 19 19:39
Omar87Lefty: <(09:56:15 PM) Lefty: Get onto Google, you lazy dope.> <- Who are talking about here?Jul 19 19:39
Omar87Who are *you* talking about...Jul 19 19:39
_GoblinI don't think Lefty knows who or what he is talking about.Jul 19 19:39
LeftyI'd _love_ that, Chimp. You've got the address, you _posted_ it (in the hopes that somebody else would "get me in trouble" on your behalf, you miserable coward).Jul 19 19:40
_GoblinI'm waiting...How do you intend to sue Roy?Jul 19 19:40
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, yes the drugsJul 19 19:40
Omar87_Goblin: He's gotta be really high man.Jul 19 19:40
LeftyI'm talking about desuJul 19 19:40
_Goblinomar87: Yeah I can tell....I am really frightened of him.Jul 19 19:40
Leftywell, you guys keep tellin' yourselves that. Ask Roy what he thinks.Jul 19 19:41
_GoblinCome on Lefty, tell us.Jul 19 19:41
Chips_B_MalroyAnd Lefty, I don't regret posting ACCESS address at all,Jul 19 19:41
_GoblinI will represent Roy then.Jul 19 19:41
LeftyI've explained in a good amount of detail already, Goblin, read the log.Jul 19 19:41
LeftyYou _can_ manage to read the log, right?Jul 19 19:41
_GoblinI don't need to.Jul 19 19:41
LeftyOr ask Roy.Jul 19 19:41
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, has more important things to do than waste his time with a drunkJul 19 19:41
LeftyWell, then why do you need to ask me?Jul 19 19:42
_GoblinBecause lefty, I wanted to hear the sillyness in realtime.Jul 19 19:42
LeftyNo, he doesn't, Chimp.Jul 19 19:42
LeftyNot at all.Jul 19 19:42
splosionLefty's been here all afternoonJul 19 19:42
_GoblinI can't challenge a log can I Lefty?Jul 19 19:42
splosion"[16:42] <Lefty> I agree, by the way." -- Lefty on the Final SolutionJul 19 19:42
Omar87Left: Same here Lefty.Jul 19 19:42
LeftyWell, you'll need to live in disappointment, then, won't you?Jul 19 19:42
_Goblinnot really Lefty.Jul 19 19:42
desu_bahJul 19 19:42
desu_this discussion is going nowhereJul 19 19:43
_Goblinonly in that I will be deprived of a cheap laugh at you.Jul 19 19:43
desu_why can't we jsut all /ignore each other pelase?Jul 19 19:43
LeftyI don't care wht you challenge, Goblin, just as I don't have to prove anything to Muttley.Jul 19 19:43
Chips_B_Malroythis guy needs to check into dehabJul 19 19:43
trmanconever tried that irc commandJul 19 19:43
_Goblinbut you are still going to sue Roy...? LOL.Jul 19 19:43
trmancomaybe it's a good time to try itJul 19 19:43
LeftyROy's attorney can (try to) challenge the evidence, but I don't think he's going to have much luck.Jul 19 19:43
Muttley_Goblin: so he saysJul 19 19:43
Muttleybut no one believes itJul 19 19:43
Chips_B_Malroyget out the rubber waitcoat for LeftyJul 19 19:43
LeftyAny competent lawyer--to bad he doesn't have one--would have told him to try to settle already.Jul 19 19:44
Omar87Lefty: Then what, on Earth, are you still doing in this channel until now?Jul 19 19:44
LeftyLike I said, you don't need to believe it.Jul 19 19:44
Chips_B_Malroykick ban and file the shill conplaintJul 19 19:44
Lefty_Roy_ believes it.Jul 19 19:44
_Goblinhe's trying to convince us of a case against Roy.Jul 19 19:44
Chips_B_Malroycause he been warnedJul 19 19:44
Muttleybut I want to see itJul 19 19:44
LeftyOtherwise, why'd he post the retraction and apology, hm?Jul 19 19:44
MuttleyI'll come to court and sit there and watchJul 19 19:44
Muttleybecause it's the easy way to avoid courtJul 19 19:44
Chips_B_Malroythis guy is all about BSJul 19 19:45
Chips_B_Malroyand attenttionJul 19 19:45
Muttleyand probably saved his baconJul 19 19:45
_GoblinLefty: If you had a case against Roy, then you would have had advice to avoid this channel, not engage in it....thats basics.Jul 19 19:45
mikankunwhy are you here lefty? if you hate this place so much why spend all this time here?Jul 19 19:45
LeftyFine, Muttley. I'll bring a friend who liked your comments about women. She's interested in taking a cattle prod to you.Jul 19 19:45
Omar87Chips_B_Malroy: Bull Crap, just to be more accurate. :)Jul 19 19:45
Muttleywhat were my comments?Jul 19 19:45
_GoblinLefty: If you had a case against Roy, then you would have had advice to avoid this channel, not engage in it....thats basics.Jul 19 19:45
LeftyAre you an attorney, Goblin?Jul 19 19:45
LeftyGot any legal training?Jul 19 19:45
MuttleyI asked if they were hot, I was pointed to a webpage and then agreed they wereJul 19 19:45
Chips_B_MalroyMikankun,  its because Lefty hates everyone.Jul 19 19:45
_Goblinsue Roy.  Find out.Jul 19 19:45
splosionAnother appeal from authority. Stellar stuffJul 19 19:46
Muttleybut seriously. let me know the court date. I'll be there to watchJul 19 19:46
Chips_B_MalroyOmar87 you should it better than IJul 19 19:46
LeftyI don't hate anyone. I don't even hate Toy. I just think he (and you, and this site) destroy community.Jul 19 19:46
LeftyI'm gonna stop it.Jul 19 19:46
_GoblinlolJul 19 19:46
Omar87Chips_B_Malroy: I didn't get it.Jul 19 19:46
Chips_B_MalroyI have never seen you say anything nice about anyoneJul 19 19:47
Chips_B_MalroyLeftyJul 19 19:47
mikankunyou say that as if you're some sort of floss super heroJul 19 19:47
Chips_B_Malroyget itJul 19 19:47
schestowitzI've just gotten back from the gym and glimpsed at the log. Lefty is obviously here to provoke, hoping to receive something to make slime with and to make matters worse he libeled me here repeatedly (accused me of things that I did not do over and over again). We can't have ubertrolls here, sorry.Jul 19 19:47
*schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-5859bec2e3e8d88cJul 19 19:47
*schestowitz has kicked Lefty from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jul 19 19:47
_Goblinaww...Jul 19 19:47
Chips_B_MalroyYES< THANK YOUJul 19 19:47
_GoblinI was enjoying that.Jul 19 19:47
schestowitzHe's not soberJul 19 19:47
trmancoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhJul 19 19:47
desu_lolJul 19 19:47
trmancoI was just about to ignore himJul 19 19:47
Omar87schestowitz: You're finally here!Jul 19 19:47
desu_it took too long :/Jul 19 19:47
Chips_B_Malroyspeed freak I thinkJul 19 19:47
Omar87schestowitz: Welcome back! :DJul 19 19:47
mikankunlol you ruined his dayJul 19 19:47
Muttleyoh well, off to bed for me thenJul 19 19:48
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schestowitzTook me 10 minutes to just gets a quick look at some of his outragous liesJul 19 19:48
Chips_B_Malroyspeeders get all wound upJul 19 19:48
schestowitzLike saying that I accused of him employers of criminal activities???????? UTTER LIE.Jul 19 19:48
schestowitzAnd he repeats it many timesJul 19 19:48
schestowitzThen the lie which he has been singing for weeksJul 19 19:48
schestowitzHe lies about me having something to do with his employer, Fink, whateverJul 19 19:49
schestowitzAgain, utter nonsenseJul 19 19:49
_Hicham_wb schestowitzJul 19 19:49
schestowitzYou should see the E-mails he sendsJul 19 19:49
Chips_B_Malroyyes, ban him, best not to give him your forum to go after you on.  he will find another site to troll and threaten.  He will move onJul 19 19:49
taconeI'm so tempted to publish this logJul 19 19:49
schestowitzWHy did you guys feed him anyway?Jul 19 19:49
trmancofor fun I guessJul 19 19:50
fewatrmanco, not funJul 19 19:50
_Hicham_schestowitz : u should set me as an op, so that I can kick nonsense peopleJul 19 19:50
taconeI think it's my fault. I posed him a question, then the matter kept onJul 19 19:50
fewastupidityJul 19 19:50
Omar87It must be really really really lonely... being him.Jul 19 19:50
schestowitzHe's got this sort of megalomanical complex... maybe the type of thing Hans Reiser had. He lies about me and makes it obvious that he's jealous of thingsJul 19 19:50
trmancohe "was keeping on" before you posted a questionJul 19 19:50
splosionI'm guilty of posting nonsense in this channel (to Lefty), Roy. I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist. You can go ahead and kick me. You'll be justified if you do.Jul 19 19:50
taconeOmar87: refrain on personal judgements. he did that, we should held to higher stantardsJul 19 19:50
schestowitzI'd rather we didn't curse him as that what he wants... to bullyJul 19 19:51
Chips_B_MalroyHe is unstable, that much is very clear.Jul 19 19:51
taconetrmanco: before he was just talking aloneJul 19 19:51
_Hicham_yes very unstable, still in sidJul 19 19:51
trmancoit that a bad thing?Jul 19 19:51
schestowitzANyway, we'll need another op later. Babysitting.Jul 19 19:51
_Hicham_schestowitz : me, u won't find an op like meJul 19 19:51
trmancololJul 19 19:52
taconetrmanco: that was to say it's probably my fault.Jul 19 19:52
_Hicham_I will keep the channel cleanJul 19 19:52
trmancoyou don't need to be always an op, you can just jump to it when you need toJul 19 19:52
_Hicham_only rational discussionsJul 19 19:52
schestowitzIf I give anyone op there's problem causse the others feel left outJul 19 19:52
schestowitzSo I hardly canJul 19 19:52
trmancotacone, I didn't say thatJul 19 19:52
taconebut I did :)Jul 19 19:52
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_Hicham_schestowitz : there should be a circle of trustJul 19 19:53
trmanco:>Jul 19 19:53
_Hicham_people that u trust in this channelJul 19 19:53
schestowitzSlated used to be op here, but he's not in IRC anymoreJul 19 19:53
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving.")Jul 19 19:53
David_LeeAt 11:29 He stated he had to leave for Jono Bacon's Community Leadership summit. He lied.Jul 19 19:53
*pk ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 19 19:53
schestowitzDavid_Lee: there's the delusions of garndeur complex, but I'm not going to curse behind his back. Let's change the subjectJul 19 19:54
Omar87schestowitz: We can make a chain of turns. (E.g.: "You're the op now, latter Hicham, later tacone..etc.")Jul 19 19:54
David_LeeCool, got it.Jul 19 19:54
splosionI hate channel ops. I never know how to work them properlyJul 19 19:54
taconei'd love to be op, but I'm here so seldom that that wouldn't help. so please not me, at least for now.Jul 19 19:55
splosionI can see this happening:Jul 19 19:55
splosion== mode/#boycottnovell [+b *!* c13fc5f6@gateway/web/freenode/x-a64af41d3e2f3e3e] by splosionJul 19 19:55
splosion [20:07] == splosion was kicked from #boycottnovell by splosion [splosion]Jul 19 19:55
schestowitzOmar87: good ideaJul 19 19:55
schestowitzI learned from Groklaw about how it came under more pressure as it gre largerJul 19 19:56
schestowitzALso DDOS attack, frivilous legal threats, pretexting by E-mailJul 19 19:56
schestowitzEven people trying to carry a messeage on 'behalf' of GroklawJul 19 19:56
schestowitzAnd then they run to Groklaw with accusations rather than some anonymous trollJul 19 19:57
*Chips_B_Malroy (i=4731c09d@gateway/web/freenode/x-f89aa2820a90f197) has joined #boycottnovellJul 19 19:57
splosionYou've been impersonated many times, too, royJul 19 19:57
schestowitz"Fink" could be an intentional plant to incite against us and cause trouble. It was some kind of bait against usJul 19 19:57
schestowitzsplosion: that tooJul 19 19:57
schestowitzI don't coment anymoreJul 19 19:57
schestowitzWhich is relieving actuallyJul 19 19:57
schestowitzI don't need to keep track of where I commentedJul 19 19:57
schestowitzPJ was also impersonated. I usually report thisJul 19 19:58
schestowitzIf it doesn't lead to immediate action it builds upJul 19 19:58
schestowitzBased on fakes and libelJul 19 19:58
schestowitzThe ubertroll linked to some Microsoft troll spreading libel against meJul 19 19:58
schestowitzPlant libel, reuse, rinse and repeatJul 19 19:59
Chips_B_Malroyget rid of eet in the comments, he is only here for the same purpose.Jul 19 20:00
schestowitzYeah..Jul 19 20:01
schestowitzBut they'll nymshift and use prociesJul 19 20:01
schestowitzproxies*Jul 19 20:01
schestowitzThey try to just police what people write or kill charactersJul 19 20:01
schestowitzEven RMSJul 19 20:01
schestowitzThey all hate RMS (GPL)Jul 19 20:01
Chips_B_Malroyyes, but if you ban both their ip and their email address, in time its a lot of work to get both a new emailJul 19 20:02
Chips_B_Malroyslows them way down in timeJul 19 20:02
schestowitzThey'll create othersJul 19 20:02
schestowitzSlows me down tooJul 19 20:02
Chips_B_MalroyyesJul 19 20:02
_Goblinsorry offtopic: Anyone here have any experience of Mepis 8?  What do you think....I hate to say it buts its impressive.Jul 19 20:03
splosionThere's a comedy nickname on reddit called "logicalfallacybot" or something, and sure enough, he responds to every bit of dodgy reasoning he finds with a list of all the logical fallacies employed by the OP. Perhaps that would be a good idea. It'd be telling to see so many [Ad hominem] tags all over the comments.Jul 19 20:03
schestowitzI'm not sure if all the recent trolling cost more time than the DDOS attacks combinedJul 19 20:04
schestowitzBut it's achieving the goals of slowing downJul 19 20:04
David_LeeGoblin: Been running it and Sidux for a while without any problems.Jul 19 20:04
schestowitzI didn't manage to make some posts I planned to makeJul 19 20:04
splosionOh and my personal favourite, [Ignoratio Elenchi]Jul 19 20:05
_GoblinDavid_Lee: I was messing with it for a nieghbour...Its pretty impressive and a great alternative to Ubuntu for a new user aswell (IMO)Jul 19 20:05
Chips_B_MalroySidux is a good distroJul 19 20:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] -Jul 19 20:05
desu__Goblin: "The photo you were looking for doesn't exist anymore" D:Jul 19 20:06
_Goblinyeah, I deleted it...Jul 19 20:07
_Goblinforgot to put a commentJul 19 20:07
_Goblinhere it comes...Jul 19 20:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] - Mephis 8 that Im setting up for a friend..very impressed so far..Compiz is in the process of being setup.Jul 19 20:07
Chips_B_MalroyI cannot comment anymore, which after this Lefty thing, maybe is a good thing.  My new account logs me in automatically, but I cannot comment on the articlesJul 19 20:08
splosion_Goblin: needs more 3d windowsJul 19 20:08
_GoblinI'm customizing it to my neighbours wishes!Jul 19 20:08
Chips_B_MalroyI use Mepis 8Jul 19 20:08
David_LeeGoblin: Mepis8 on three different desktops, 2 netbooks and 2 standard laptops. Recognized all hardware.Jul 19 20:08
splosionI never liked the gears thing, either.Jul 19 20:08
_GoblinIm not sure why he wants Mepis 8 in particularJul 19 20:08
_GoblinNever been a KDE fan though.Jul 19 20:08
desu_kde > gnome :/Jul 19 20:08
Chips_B_Malroybut put in WICD right awayJul 19 20:09
Chips_B_MalroyMepis does not have MONO either 19 20:09
_Goblinand Mepis is not a distro I would try for myself normally....Jul 19 20:09
Chips_B_Malroybut sadly its in the debian repos it usesJul 19 20:09
_GoblinYou know what they say "Once you try Slack, you never go back"Jul 19 20:10
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, yes there is no one distro for everyoneJul 19 20:10
Chips_B_MalroyI liked SlaxJul 19 20:10
David_LeePCLinuxOS equally as good as Mepis.Jul 19 20:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Holy crap RT @waldyrious Carter leaves Southern Baptists citing treatment of women 19 20:10
_GoblinI'm currently running Wolvix 2.0.0beta2...very impressive...Jul 19 20:10
Chips_B_Malroydoes slackware based now have some kind of new installed similar to apt-get?Jul 19 20:10
_GoblinWolvix: 19 20:11
Chips_B_MalroyDavid Lee  yes, PCLINUSOS is a great OSJul 19 20:11
David_LeeGoblin: Slap-GetJul 19 20:11
_GoblinIt includes gslapJul 19 20:11
_Goblinor slap-getJul 19 20:11
Chips_B_MalroythanksJul 19 20:11
_GoblinPeople have raved about PCLOS, however it failed to boot on my AMD64 distro hopper.Jul 19 20:12
Chips_B_Malroythat was always my problem with slackware based, newbie unfriendly to give to othersJul 19 20:12
Chips_B_Malroyso slap-get may fix thatJul 19 20:12
_GoblinWolvix is very good.....just no pre packaged NG binaries grabber.Jul 19 20:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] listening to With Rainy Eyes by Emancipator - 19 20:13
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin:  some distros may fail to boot on some hardware,  i usually have several cd's for that reason of various distros in case to install for othersJul 19 20:13
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, slack based is usually fastJul 19 20:14
_GoblinyepJul 19 20:14
David_LeeHad PCLOS hang in the beginning of Live CD boot, on AMD64 Phenom II, APIC=OFF worked.Jul 19 20:14
_GoblinWine is around 15% quicker....Jul 19 20:14
_GoblinUAE gets around 15-20 frames more...Jul 19 20:14
Chips_B_Malroyusually most live cd boot problems are video relatedJul 19 20:16
_Goblintrue....Jul 19 20:16
_GoblinI keep meaning to start my own distro project....Jul 19 20:16
_Goblinthe closest I got was a heavily customized and chopped Ubuntu 8.04SEJul 19 20:17
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, the other Mepis 8 problem you may run into setting up for your friend is wireless.  You have to go into the Mepis Assistant to set that up.Jul 19 20:17
Chips_B_Malroynetworking assistantJul 19 20:17
_Goblinhang fire...Ill just check....Jul 19 20:18
David_LeeLFS for the masocistJul 19 20:18
schestowitzOr learnerJul 19 20:18
mikankunI used LFS for about 3 monthsJul 19 20:18
_Hicham_why UbuntuSE is not renamed yet ?Jul 19 20:18
David_LeeBest tool for learning.Jul 19 20:18
mikankunquite when decided I wanted to update glibcJul 19 20:18
_Hicham_UbuntuME was forced to renameJul 19 20:18
schestowitzOld news but still: 19 20:19
_Hicham_updating glibc means updating anythingJul 19 20:19
Chips_B_MalroyYou can find a lot on the user forums about MONO (except UBUNTU).  Mepislovers forum, you will find that users are basically set against MONOJul 19 20:20
schestowitz_Hicham_: i wondered the sameJul 19 20:20
schestowitzTrademark issuesJul 19 20:20
schestowitzMaybe Canonical does 'em one by one. Satanic Edition was the latestJul 19 20:20
*Goblin_Mephis ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 19 20:21
Goblin_Mephishey it all worksJul 19 20:21
_Goblinthat was easyJul 19 20:21
Chips_B_MalroyAnother funky thing about the users forum for distros.  Was UBUNTU at least a couple of years ago, outlawed any Microsoft bashing, as if it was just "another" distro.  They tried to do that at Mepislovers too, but people spoke out about thatJul 19 20:21
*Goblin_Mephis is now known as Goblin_MepisJul 19 20:21
Goblin_MepisdohJul 19 20:21
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_GoblinCurrently seeding #!CBL9.0.4.1 on Linuxtracker.....Jul 19 20:22
Chips_B_MalroyWarren actually tried to make the wireless too easy, and now new users cannot figure out how to make it workJul 19 20:22
Chips_B_MalroyMepis that isJul 19 20:23
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_Hicham_wireless in damn easy nowJul 19 20:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Turns out there is a "Linux Cafe" 19 20:23
schestowitzUnless you use VIstaJul 19 20:23
tacone1_Hicham_: thx for you commentJul 19 20:23
schestowitzI hear the driver issues are broadJul 19 20:23
_Hicham_tacone1 : u r welcomeJul 19 20:24
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, Ubuntu, Mint, they all good, better than Windose.  But I was wrong to like to them on MS Watch, as they come with MONOJul 19 20:24
David_LeeMepis took 11 min. to install with default settings. Desktop ready. How long for any win install?Jul 19 20:24
Chips_B_Malroy*linkJul 19 20:24
splosionover the next few weeks, I want to write up a srs article about Ed Curry and the whole NSA security stuff with windows, and the after-effects. It displeases me that the whole thing has been forgotten about. anyone want to help?Jul 19 20:24
Chips_B_MalroyDavid Lee, we think alike on the DistosJul 19 20:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] So before #!CBL9.04.01 there will be coverage of my experience with Mepis 8.....frighteningly easy to install..... #linux #mepisJul 19 20:25
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Chips_B_MalroyWarren has made many gui types ways for beginners in the Mepis assistantJul 19 20:26
David_LeeChips: Currently running Sidux 2009-2, really outstanding even with KDE 4.2Jul 19 20:26
schestowitzThe ubertroll is now trolling in site commentsJul 19 20:26
Chips_B_Malroymost are easy to do, but for beginngers it nice to be able to do a chkdsk of the hard drive from the live cd, or restore the xorg.conf from the Mepis assistantsJul 19 20:27
desu__Goblin: phear mah kde 4.3 19 20:28
splosionschestowitz: where?Jul 19 20:28
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, can u ban his ip and email address?Jul 19 20:28
David_LeeRoy: I think they want to take up your time to keep you from your normal posting schedule. Oct is Vista7 RTMJul 19 20:28
Chips_B_Malroyhe will have more than one email address, so you will have to ban him more than onceJul 19 20:29
*Balrog__ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 19 20:30
Chips_B_Malroyhaving the email address and the ip is more legal proof for youJul 19 20:30
schestowitzWe still have that Microsoft TE commenting a lot without disclosureJul 19 20:33
schestowitzWhat the heck is this?Jul 19 20:33
schestowitzWe don't have a commenting policy yetJul 19 20:34
schestowitzSomething about disclosures, against libeling, etc.Jul 19 20:34
tacone1 19 20:34
tacone1talking with a sflc about monoJul 19 20:34
_Goblindesu_ sorry, I was afk...Nice skydome and desktop! I was debating to add the water effects (although my friend said he didnt want anything other than "the cube"...Jul 19 20:36
desu_i would've put my snow effect, too...Jul 19 20:36
desu_:PJul 19 20:36
desu_btw, all that without any extra setup...Jul 19 20:36
desu_default install of kde... kwinJul 19 20:36
_Goblinnot really a COMPIZ fan.....wobbly windows is about my limit...Jul 19 20:36
desu_oooo i has wobbly windows too :PJul 19 20:37
_Hicham_I am submitting an op request to schestowitzJul 19 20:37
*desu_ doesn't use compiz eitherJul 19 20:37
desu_it's just plain old kwinJul 19 20:37
_Hicham_is plasma better than compiz ?Jul 19 20:37
desu_o.o?Jul 19 20:38
desu_kwin+plasma > anything gnome+compiz can offer :PJul 19 20:38
desu_if you leave the plugins that already exist for compiz aside, that is...Jul 19 20:38
David_Leebbl, on-call phone.Jul 19 20:38
desu_they can prolly be ported to kwin, i thinkJul 19 20:38
tacone1+1 for _Hicham_ opJul 19 20:39
_Hicham_thanks tacone1Jul 19 20:39
_Goblin+1 for _Hicham_ opJul 19 20:40
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, on your commenting policy, if I could make a suggustionJul 19 20:40
_Hicham_thanks _GoblinJul 19 20:40
Chips_B_Malroyuse something similar to those on the distro's users forumsJul 19 20:40
Chips_B_Malroynamecalling, anyone, even yourself, bad language, links to porn, advertising etc gets you bannedJul 19 20:41
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to _Hicham_Jul 19 20:41
schestowitzWe'll take turns, I guessJul 19 20:41
schestowitzBut be reasonable, don't misuse opJul 19 20:41
_Hicham_thanks schestowitzJul 19 20:41
schestowitznpJul 19 20:41
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: draft here 19 20:42
schestowitzCorrect as you see fiyJul 19 20:42
schestowitz*fitJul 19 20:42
_Hicham_schestowitz : I think that we must put some pressure on upstream GNOMEJul 19 20:43
_Hicham_because tomboy and f-spot have been adopted as gnome projectsJul 19 20:43
_Hicham_this is really getting seriousJul 19 20:43
_Hicham_this crazy mexican is gonna ruin everythingJul 19 20:44
Chips_B_MalroyMepislovers, as an example does not even allow distro bashing (MS is not a distro!) but you can say distro X does not have or does have MONO or something to the effect, if you state a fact.Jul 19 20:44
_Hicham_I think that MS promised him to take him as an employee if he destroys GNOMEJul 19 20:45
*Balrog_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 19 20:45
_Hicham_what I don't understand is why a lot of devs are interested in Mono ?Jul 19 20:45
_Hicham_even if there is good alternatives ?Jul 19 20:45
_Hicham_are those devs real Linux devs ?Jul 19 20:45
_Hicham_or Microsoft devs employed to fill Linux with crap ?Jul 19 20:46
Chips_B_MalroyRoy I like your commenting policyJul 19 20:46
Chips_B_Malroyyou don't litely ban people or kick them, but that gives you enough ammo to get rid of the bad onesJul 19 20:47
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin:  remember the shillbombers at MS Watch in the comments.   When they had nothing left, they used filth in the commentsJul 19 20:47
splosionDamn, manJul 19 20:48
splosionThe comment policy and the registering and stuff is going to make my fallacy_bot mostly redundant, now. Still, I'll be pointing out dodgy reasoning even from sympathetic commentators, if I see anyJul 19 20:50
_Goblinchips: sorry afk there...yes I do...I also remember the glee Andre Da Costa seemed to take in Joe's leaving....Jul 19 20:50
Chips_B_MalroyI must be already banned in the comments as I was logged in, and when I go to post it says I must log in, and then it fails to log inJul 19 20:51
Chips_B_MalroyAndre must have 50K comments online, he is like LeftyJul 19 20:52
schestowitzNo pressure , _Hicham_ Jul 19 20:55
schestowitzWe can write our minds on technical termsJul 19 20:55
schestowitzPressure is a strong wordJul 19 20:55
schestowitzAnd it's Free software. We can make essays that will hopefully be convincing and enlightenJul 19 20:55
_Hicham_schestowitz : this is getting seriousJul 19 20:55
tacone1which kind of pressure do you have in mind ?Jul 19 20:56
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: in BN??Jul 19 20:56
schestowitzPlease stop feedine the trolls thoughJul 19 20:57
schestowitzIt's what they wantJul 19 20:57
Chips_B_Malroyyes, I cannot post, unless maybe I try to reg again as someone elseJul 19 20:57
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: try password recovert thingJul 19 20:57
schestowitz*recoverJul 19 20:57
Chips_B_Malroyok, Roy, I will stop feeding the trollsJul 19 20:57
schestowitztacone1: I worry that some people who read BN take it too farJul 19 20:58
schestowitzLike that zealot "Fink"Jul 19 20:58
schestowitzNothing to do with me, but they take it rudely on mailing listsJul 19 20:58
schestowitzAnd they make it seem like it's from BN, which it's notJul 19 20:58
Chips_B_MalroyIt could be the username as I put a couple of _ into itJul 19 20:58
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: ah, OKJul 19 20:59
schestowitzIt's WordPress internals, not much I can doJul 19 20:59
Chips_B_Malroyyes, maybe I need to try again and reg anotherJul 19 20:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Dead and Buried pics from last night: 19 21:01
schestowitzPlease, people, don't feed trolls. You are getting *me* in trouble for doing thisJul 19 21:04
schestowitzPC maker Everex closes shop in North America < >Jul 19 21:07
schestowitzWow. Major lies from global globe: 19 21:15
schestowitzThey call Linux "nonstandard" LOLJul 19 21:15
schestowitzLinux adheres to standardJul 19 21:15
schestowitzEven standardsJul 19 21:15
mikankunI had high hopes for the netbook market but once it became infected it just went downhillJul 19 21:20
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schestowitzMicrosoftNBC brings Linux FUD: Experts question security of Google OS <>Jul 19 21:28
schestowitzHow come they don't cover many pro-Linux articles? I never see any.Jul 19 21:28
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Chips_B_MalroyMS-Yahoo search deal nears, so Ballmer contines to use pressure and insiders to get Yahoo, and to try to kill GoogleJul 19 21:33
StillMeHey, did you guys know that under UK libel laws, the burden of proof is 100% on the defendant?Jul 19 21:33
StillMeIt's true.Jul 19 21:33
*schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-06779b65db0e2c85Jul 19 21:34
*schestowitz has kicked StillMe from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jul 19 21:34
schestowitzSo he has the budren of proof as the one who libeled me int he first placeJul 19 21:34
Chips_B_Malroymutex again?Jul 19 21:34
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: no, LeftyJul 19 21:34
Chips_B_MalroyhahaJul 19 21:35
Chips_B_Malroynice bootJul 19 21:35
schestowitzHe also libeled me earlier in IRCJul 19 21:35
*jose (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-4ddbdc0674b44bf3) has joined #boycottnovellJul 19 21:35
schestowitzHe just wants to intimidate to silence.Jul 19 21:35
joseget my mail, Roy?Jul 19 21:35
schestowitzYou mailed?Jul 19 21:36
schestowitzLet me checkJul 19 21:36
joseMaybe you want to send my your phone number.Jul 19 21:36
joseYou really need to talk with me.Jul 19 21:36
jose=DJul 19 21:36
schestowitzSureJul 19 21:36
josemm-kay.Jul 19 21:36
schestowitzLet me just finish an RSS feed...Jul 19 21:37
josetake your time, it's your ass in the sling.Jul 19 21:37
Chips_B_MalroyHi Jose-XJul 19 21:37
joseHi, Chump!Jul 19 21:37
jose=DJul 19 21:37
amarsh04hi jose, just read through your talkbacks on about monoJul 19 21:37
joselolJul 19 21:38
schestowitzjose: my mail server it temporarily down I've just realisedJul 19 21:38
schestowitzTHe mail will arrive laterJul 19 21:38
Chips_B_Malroyso, that was you as a symJul 19 21:38
joseWell, this is Lefty, you'd better get it up and read your email.Jul 19 21:38
joseAs I said, you need to have a chat with me.Jul 19 21:38
joseOr just send my your phone number and I'll call you.Jul 19 21:38
Chips_B_MalroyI emailed this one, as I thought was okJul 19 21:38
joseI won't share it or misuse it. I want to lay out some facts for you to consider.Jul 19 21:39
joseStuff you need to know.Jul 19 21:39
jose=DJul 19 21:39
joseyou've got my email address already, I believe.Jul 19 21:39
Chips_B_Malroybut nothing I said was wrong, only that I should not have posted the numbersJul 19 21:39
joseshut up, Chump. the adults are talking.Jul 19 21:39
schestowitzWait...Jul 19 21:40
Chips_B_MalroyI have nothing to do with this site.  And lefty, you are about as low as they getJul 19 21:40
joseI told you to button yer lip, Chimp.Jul 19 21:40
schestowitzPretexting is against the lawJul 19 21:41, Roy.Jul 19 21:41
Chips_B_Malroyyou will not get any help from me Lefty in your battleJul 19 21:41
joseI'm not preteting.Jul 19 21:41
joseJose's my middle name.Jul 19 21:41
*schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-4ddbdc0674b44bf3Jul 19 21:41
*schestowitz has kicked jose from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jul 19 21:41
schestowitzIt's Lefty pretending to be someone eleseJul 19 21:41
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*Willy_ (i=447ed9e6@gateway/web/freenode/x-ac00c27e415c12ed) has joined #boycottnovellJul 19 21:41, Roy.Jul 19 21:41
Willy_a phone number where you can be reached now.Jul 19 21:42
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LeftyWell, ya really oughta read that email, pal.Jul 19 21:42
Leftyyour call.Jul 19 21:42
Chips_B_MalroySorry, folks, I had seen a JoseX in this site before, and thought she was the same, a sane person.  So that was why I emailed her.  But there is notihing there that will hurt anyone hereJul 19 21:42
Leftythat's your story, Chump.Jul 19 21:42
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*schestowitz has kicked Lefty from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jul 19 21:43
schestowitzMy mail is down todayJul 19 21:43
schestowitzSince early in the day. I'll contact the hostJul 19 21:43
Chips_B_MalroyHe is just tying to be an irritantJul 19 21:43
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BunsenHoneydewIn the UK, if someone thinks that what you wrote about them is either defamatory or damaging, the onus will be entirely on you to prove that your comments are true in court. In other words, if you make the claim, you've got to prove it!Jul 19 21:44
BunsenHoneydew=DJul 19 21:44
BunsenHoneydewGot that, Roy?Jul 19 21:44
BunsenHoneydew"Entirely on you".Jul 19 21:45
Chips_B_Malroyit was a yahoo mailing addressJul 19 21:45
Chips_B_Malroythe joseX oneJul 19 21:45
BunsenHoneydewSend me the phone number, dude. I've got a proposal. We'll talk like big people, hm?Jul 19 21:45
BunsenHoneydewWell, _I_ will.Jul 19 21:45
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taconei guess i just lost something interestingJul 19 21:46
tessier 19 21:46
schestowitzYEah, seen thatJul 19 21:47
tessierClever. No trolls in the comments. Heh.Jul 19 21:47
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schestowitzWe're now getting heckled in BN by addressesJul 19 21:47
schestowitzSeems like a coordinated gagging effort to me, or maybe cooinidentalJul 19 21:47
schestowitzJust funny to see how Microsoft TE play along in this...Jul 19 21:48
twitterOn Sunday too.Jul 19 21:48
twitterI hope they are getting paid overtime.Jul 19 21:48
schestowitzTo them, I suppose it's warJul 19 21:48
*tacone is paying his hosting on the very last dayJul 19 21:49
twitterShame M$ can't just hire coders and fix their shit instead.Jul 19 21:49
schestowitzMicrosoft's results next week are abysmalJul 19 21:49
Chips_B_Malroyseen them do a lot of bad stuff, but maybe this is the worstJul 19 21:49
schestowitzThe Microsoft TEs resort to doing anything to save their jobsJul 19 21:49
twitterMaybe they will fire all these TE asses.Jul 19 21:49
schestowitzI reckon Microsoft profits might fall 30-40% this qtrJul 19 21:49
schestowitzThey feel about 30% last qtrJul 19 21:49
schestowitzIt's like with SCO...Jul 19 21:49
schestowitzPJ receiving death threatdJul 19 21:50
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twitterThe YesMen had some funny things to say about PR people in their fake NYT print.Jul 19 21:50
twitterpictures of empty officesJul 19 21:50
trmancoo geezeJul 19 21:51
schestowitztwitter: yeahJul 19 21:51
schestowitzRMS writes about yemen sometimesJul 19 21:51
schestowitz*yesmanJul 19 21:52
schestowitz*LOL* weird typo there.Jul 19 21:52
schestowitz*yesmenJul 19 21:52
schestowitzThey looked for help to carry on their activismJul 19 21:52
schestowitzI can see your IP, DavidJul 19 21:53
Chips_B_MalroyIs there no decent shred of honestly with these people?  Hoping to live long enough to see M$ go under.Jul 19 21:53
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schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: greed over ethicsJul 19 21:53
schestowitzCIT talks to top banks; bankruptcy still feared < >Jul 19 21:55
Chips_B_Malroyattention deficiency disorder=LeftyJul 19 21:56
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tessierschestowitz: How much will MS lose next week?Jul 19 21:57
Chips_B_Malroyhe loves no one, so hate is all he has, so he talks to those he hatesJul 19 21:57
schestowitzIf consistent wrt last quarter, 30%Jul 19 21:57
Chips_B_Malroyits going be bad for the 23rd is my guessJul 19 21:57
_GoblinI reckon 36.3%Jul 19 21:58
schestowitzThat's what they report anyway. Reality maybe worseJul 19 21:58
schestowitzMicrosoft took debtJul 19 21:58
Chips_B_Malroyconsider the Seven vaporware is hurting MSJul 19 21:58
twitterI saw this kind of thing too at local computer clubs.  Like all things M$, it was coordinated. -> (12:40:59 PM) Chips_B_Malroy: Another funky thing about the users forum for distros.  Was UBUNTU at least a couple of years ago, outlawed any Microsoft bashing, as if it was just "another" distro.  They tried to do that at Mepislovers too, but people spoke out about thatJul 19 21:58
schestowitzwallclimber: while you were away I got back from the gym to find the place filled with libel against meJul 19 21:58
Chips_B_MalroyWindows users will hold off a few months before buying in order to get the latest, which some will think is no VistaJul 19 21:58
schestowitzYou also missed the troll nymshifting like half a dozen times, pretending to be other people who participate in the siteJul 19 21:59
wallclimberyes, it was getting pretty awful by the time i leftJul 19 21:59
twitterthe last two hours do look nasty.Jul 19 21:59
schestowitzNext MSFT fianncial report overlaps V7 and Ubuntu 9.10Jul 19 21:59
schestowitzJust days apartJul 19 21:59
schestowitzI am perhaps going to post a commenting policyJul 19 21:59
schestowitzIntimidation is not acceptableJul 19 21:59
twitterDon't bother Roy.  Just run the place as you see fit.Jul 19 22:00
twitterWe can all see what's going on.Jul 19 22:00
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schestowitzI will not have nymshifting libeling lunatics (remember it all started with his libeling me) posting threats in my siteJul 19 22:00
schestowitzTime drainageJul 19 22:00
schestowitzBeen effectiveJul 19 22:01
twitterYou don't owe Lefty or any of those other asses anything and they are not about to read your policy.  Just boot them the way PJ does.Jul 19 22:01
wallclimberi think they get worse because they are frustrated when they can't get you to respondJul 19 22:01
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twitterThey are frustrated by their inability to shut this place up.Jul 19 22:02
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twitterThey could not even drive me off Slashdot and the place still picks up my submissions. Total fail on their part.Jul 19 22:02
wallclimberthat's true, twitter, but also their kind of nonsense requires attention to work well, they hate it when they can't stir things upJul 19 22:02
twitterThey want BN shut up because they can't control it.Jul 19 22:02
twitterWhen Roy does just a little bit of thinking and records keeping, it blows up billions of dollars worth of lies.Jul 19 22:03
Chips_B_MalroyWallclimber, he has over 300 posts to repondJul 19 22:03
schestowitzIt seems like imy mail server has been down since the afternoon...?Jul 19 22:03
twitterhmmmJul 19 22:03
trmancouh'Jul 19 22:03
twitterI wonder if they mail bombed you.Jul 19 22:04
Chips_B_Malroyis Lefty attacking this site?Jul 19 22:04
schestowitzHeh. NO.Jul 19 22:04
twitterI was unaware that Lefty had stopped attacking BN.Jul 19 22:04
wallclimberwas the Lefty that was here a while ago the "real" Lefty?Jul 19 22:05
Chips_B_Malroywas talking about the mailJul 19 22:05
twitterI'm not sure Lefty was ever who he claimed he was.Jul 19 22:05
taconewallclimber: difficult to say. my guess is that he is. but we can't be sure.Jul 19 22:05
twitterIt could have been ID theft all along.Jul 19 22:05
wallclimberthat one was a little creepyJul 19 22:05
wallclimberi'm assuming this will all continue to get worse before it gets better...Jul 19 22:07
Chips_B_Malroytwitter, only way to find out is to call, and that would not be nice.  so I don'tJul 19 22:07
taconeanother way is to publish the log and ask it publicly :PJul 19 22:07
Chips_B_Malroyeven a website can be a fake.Jul 19 22:08
twitterCall who?Jul 19 22:08
twitterRight.  Websites are easy enough to make.Jul 19 22:08
Chips_B_Malroyand I for one would not post on his site, if he is the real thingJul 19 22:08
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twitterI don't have anything to say to the troll and don't know the real person.Jul 19 22:09
Chips_B_MalroyTwitter says call who,  ACCESS.  But its catch 22 you are a bad guy if you do, and if not how can you be sure thats himJul 19 22:09
twitterThere's nothing wrong with calling someone.Jul 19 22:09
twitterI recommended to Roy that he call before and it seems he has.Jul 19 22:10
twitterThe question is if he called the right number or just got dragged around by some dick.Jul 19 22:10
tacone"hey, are you the same lefty that came on BN irc and claimed people there to be thick ? "Jul 19 22:10
Chips_B_Malroytwitter, thats what I think too, he went way too far, and should anwser for his actions.  But neither do I want to do anything to hurt this site.  BN and PJ are about the only two that look out for us GNU/Linux users, they fight for freedomJul 19 22:12
Chips_B_Malroycareful what you say about calling hereJul 19 22:12
wallclimberyou were talking about Microsoft losses this last year, can't they just blame the economy and ask for some Fed money because they are "too important to the economy" to fail?Jul 19 22:12
twitterWell, there's also FSF, EFF, ACLU and so on and so forth.Jul 19 22:12
twitterAll of whom will happily agree that I'm free to express my opinion that the Lefty troll is an ass.Jul 19 22:13
ThistleWebwallclimber: they will no doubt try, it's not as if they are practised at pulling govt stringsJul 19 22:13
Chips_B_Malroymaybe ACCESS doesn't care what Lefty says here about BN.  But would they care about how he has run down RMS and GNU software?Jul 19 22:13
twitterI don't care what ACCESS thinks.Jul 19 22:14
ThistleWebas well as controlling mainstream media stories to add pressure in getting the result they wantJul 19 22:14
twitterSteve Ballmer has already asked for bailouts.Jul 19 22:14
Chips_B_Malroytwitter, he is not an ass, maybe an a$$Jul 19 22:14
twitterI've expressed myself about Lefty in the comments and don't have much else to add.Jul 19 22:15
twitterOther than his behavior here in IRC is in line with previous abuse and he should be banned.Jul 19 22:15
schestowitzInterim Commenting Policy < >Jul 19 22:16
Chips_B_MalroyI guess that policy could be someone using the comments to attack people like RMS?  If so that would be good.  another troll tacticJul 19 22:17
schestowitzwallclimber: yes, Microsoft will want stimulus or somethingJul 19 22:18
ThistleWebwouldn't it be funny if there was an IRC bot that did the equivalent of a user agent string on each new nick entering and posted that along with the usual IP, nick etcJul 19 22:18
schestowitzThey try to make depatments reliant on their products on serviesJul 19 22:18
schestowitzI am most fearful about Health'Vault'Jul 19 22:18
schestowitzHealthclockinJul 19 22:18
schestowitz"Save Microsoft from bankruptcy or patients will die.."Jul 19 22:19
wallclimberwell, i know that every time billg goes to washington they fall all over themselves to make him welcomeJul 19 22:19
schestowitzStop mentioning people's employersJul 19 22:19
schestowitzYou are fueling themJul 19 22:19
schestowitzwallclimber: yes, they like to be around moneyJul 19 22:19
schestowitzLater when they finish their terms they can be repayed somehow, sometimesJul 19 22:19
Chips_B_Malroyyou know when they annouce the quarter details after the stock market closes, its probably bad news.   and if its on Friday its worse.  I think  this being on a monday, its should be good for them.  Maybe they fridged the books againJul 19 22:20
twitterIt is bad enough that Windows is used as a terminal in Hospitals.  They need to be kept out of the server room.Jul 19 22:20
ThistleWebpoliticians dont earn their rewards in office, there's often too much scrutiny that would force them to resign in disgrace over something, they earn it AFTER they leave office with a number of well paid directorships and their contacts booksJul 19 22:21
Chips_B_MalroyOr speeches that are paid for, the standard practice of both former prez here on both parties in USAJul 19 22:22
ThistleWebyep, speaking toursJul 19 22:22
ThistleWeb"how to hoodwink the UN and get the decision you want, even when they know they are being hoodwinked" by T Blair & G W BushJul 19 22:23
Chips_B_Malroythey all do it here, Clinton, W etcJul 19 22:24
ThistleWebthey do, it's a long standing tradition of former leadersJul 19 22:24
ThistleWebsome are more interesting than othersJul 19 22:24
ThistleWebapparently Churchill was VERY popular and prolific after WWII in the USJul 19 22:24
wallclimberi've often wondered why, with all the layoffs at MS, more ex employees don't speak out about thingsJul 19 22:25
ThistleWebhe toured like a rock starJul 19 22:25
ThistleWebwell, without the sex, drugs and rock & rollJul 19 22:25
twitterHow do you know more employees are not speaking out?Jul 19 22:25
Chips_B_MalroyChurchill is still very popular hereJul 19 22:25
wallclimberChurchill was witty and had personalityJul 19 22:25
ThistleWebhe will always be a hero in the UK for his role in WWIIJul 19 22:26
wallclimberGWB has the personality of a box of rocksJul 19 22:26
twitterIt is hard for them though.  M$ employees are like most corporate drones, I'd think.  Kept desperately busy so they can't learn things for themselves.Jul 19 22:26
twitterHelpless and divided.Jul 19 22:26
twitterBut there's another barrier.  M$ is a powerful company and can make sure their critics never work in the field again.Jul 19 22:27
wallclimbertwitter: but wouldn't some of them be disgruntled after losing their job (or very relieved?)Jul 19 22:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A Pictorial Guide to Computer Hardware: 19 22:27
twitterThey want to work somewhere.Jul 19 22:27
Chips_B_MalroyTony Blair is quite popular here (USA)as well, far more so than in his countryJul 19 22:27
ThistleWebwallclimber: I used to think that until I saw a documentary about Dubya on the campaign trail to be leader of the Republicans. TV crews followed his campaign (as they did with the others) and for a while you could see why people warmed to him. Take the politics out and he's a warm, charming guy......that's AFTER knowing what his first term in office would bringJul 19 22:28
*tacone has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))Jul 19 22:29
twitterA man can smile and smile and still be a villainJul 19 22:29
ThistleWebonly near the end of the campaign when it became apparent he was one of the favorites, did his team clamp down and make sure it was all on message etcJul 19 22:29
wallclimberThistleweb: i heard that madoff was a charming guy too...Jul 19 22:29
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ThistleWebno doubt he was, you need to convince peeps to go along with your agendaJul 19 22:30
twitterThen you read the emails from the most charming people at M$ and see how vile they really are.Jul 19 22:30
wallclimbertwitter: i've heard that steveb can be very charming tooJul 19 22:30
ThistleWebI'm saying I can understand why they are popular as speakersJul 19 22:31
twittergood target for rotten eggsJul 19 22:31
wallclimberThistleweb: I understand.Jul 19 22:31
schestowitzYesJul 19 22:32
ThistleWebof course the real reason the controversial ones command high fees, is that the peeps booking them hope to gain a little new insight into something that's been carefully stage managed while in officeJul 19 22:32
schestowitzSteveB was charming with NeelieJul 19 22:32
schestowitzHe "schmoozed" here as they say in MicrosoftJul 19 22:32
schestowitzBetter than his meeting with Lucowski (spelling?)Jul 19 22:32
ThistleWebBlair is a lawyer, he didn't slip in office where he could be kicked out, so he won't slip under a relaxed Q&AJul 19 22:33
wallclimberi have company coming for dinner...Jul 19 22:34
Chips_B_MalroyI read somewhere that 92% of all polications in Federal Gov USA started as lawyers, the other 7% doctors, and 1% as business ownersJul 19 22:34
ThistleWebBlair also still has political ambitions as Pres of the EUJul 19 22:34
wallclimbermust get things all take care :)Jul 19 22:35
ThistleWebhave fun wallclimberJul 19 22:35
ThistleWebChips_B_Malroy: that would not surprise me at allJul 19 22:35
wallclimberbye for nowJul 19 22:35
*wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jul 19 22:35
ThistleWebactually, I'd expect more religious typesJul 19 22:35
ThistleWebspecially in the Republican ranksJul 19 22:36
Chips_B_Malroywhich helps to explain why my country is going the way it isJul 19 22:36
ThistleWebalthough manipulating the sheep is much easier if you're not one of themJul 19 22:36
ThistleWebthe UK is much the same on the lawyer / politician frontJul 19 22:36
Chips_B_MalroyThistleWeb, believe it or not, the Democrats have more millionaires in their ranksJul 19 22:37
Chips_B_Malroyboth parties here have long ago lost site of the middle classesJul 19 22:37
Chips_B_Malroyits why they love money, M$ and do not fight for FOSSJul 19 22:38
ThistleWebthe Democrats have long been the party of the entertainment industry, so that dont really surprise me muchJul 19 22:38
Chips_B_Malroyand they love BillGJul 19 22:38
schestowitzThey think he's a "maverick"Jul 19 22:39
Chips_B_MalroyBoth Parties here are the party of the entertainment industry.  But Dems slightly moreJul 19 22:39
schestowitzj/k (Palin reference)Jul 19 22:39
Chips_B_Malroythey both love the RIAAJul 19 22:39
ThistleWebit's not so much the fact that most politicians are lawyers, it's that they're a who's who of the rich families, coming from the most elite schoolsJul 19 22:39
ThistleWebI think in general the Democrats are better for the US, but not for anyone fighting the entertainment industry on common senseJul 19 22:40
ThistleWebthere's always areas of concernJul 19 22:40
sebsebsebhi I am new here, and found out about the channel a little while agoJul 19 22:41
ThistleWeba lot of the elite are indoctrinated that it's their birth right and they are "born to rule"Jul 19 22:41
ThistleWebwelcome sebsebsebJul 19 22:41
schestowitzWelcomeJul 19 22:41
Chips_B_Malroylately yes, the Republicans went over the edge and completely lost track of what they were supposed to beJul 19 22:41
sebsebsebI thought it would be a Mono hate channel or something :D  ,but  dosn't seem like itJul 19 22:41
ThistleWebhere the Labour Party are the party of the working classes.....if you can believe thatJul 19 22:42
ThistleWebor they were before the Blair revolution turned them into Torries with red tiesJul 19 22:42
ThistleWebsebsebseb: the topics here are all over the place, mono will come back up at some pointJul 19 22:43
schestowitzsebsebseb: no, mono is one among many subjects int he worldJul 19 22:43
sebsebsebdoes the guy that runs the  boycottnovell  site come to this channel?Jul 19 22:43
ThistleWebthat's schestowitzJul 19 22:44
Chips_B_MalroyIf MS buys yahoo, or part of it, I going get rid of my yahoo account, I hardly every use it anymore anywayJul 19 22:44
sebsebsebI  used to be loyal to Yahoo untillJul 19 22:44
sebsebsebI locked myself out of my own account, when doing  a password change,  this is a few years agoJul 19 22:45
schestowitzWow, I just realised Zimbra vabnishedJul 19 22:45
schestowitzNothing at all about it in the newsJul 19 22:45
sebsebseband I try to contact them about that,  and get loads of  automatic  emails :(   and then the only time I get one from a real person is to complain that I hadn't done my DOB exactly as my profile, so I email back  how they wanted it, but only to get more automatic email :(Jul 19 22:45
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trmancoZimbra?Jul 19 22:46
trmancoit's site is onlineJul 19 22:46
taconehello againJul 19 22:46
ThistleWebhey taconeJul 19 22:46
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: well they got bing now,   and luckily the Yahoo CEO at the time, said no to themJul 19 22:46
sebsebseb!logsJul 19 22:47
ThistleWebbing is a failureJul 19 22:47
sebsebsebso where are the logs located?Jul 19 22:47
taconems has big influence on local newspaperJul 19 22:47
taconeall italian newspapers reclamize msJul 19 22:47
ThistleWebmostly everything MS touches to compete in an existing market fails, leaving them no choice but to buy an existing rivalJul 19 22:47
tacone*publicizeJul 19 22:47
taconenot IT newspapers. generic onesJul 19 22:47
sebsebsebThistleWeb: well they can't just buy  Google Docs  I think,  hence  Office 2010  onlineJul 19 22:48
ThistleWebif Yahoo sell parts of itself to MS, which is the most likely scenario, the Zimbra will be one of their main targets, to close down a rival to ExchangeJul 19 22:49
Chips_B_Malroythere is supposed to be a deal in the works for a search part of yahoo/ms next weekJul 19 22:49
taconeoffice online was advertised by italian newspapersJul 19 22:49
ThistleWebif I were Yahoo, I'd hold out a REAL high price for stuff I know MS want to buy, to close downJul 19 22:49
Chips_B_Malroyanother ms project axed: 19 22:50
schestowitzThis month’s talk will be given by the prolific podcaster and musician, Dan Lynch. Dan will be giving a talk entitled “Professional Audio Production With Free Software”."" 19 22:51
Chips_B_MalroyMicrosoft Goons Break Up SQL Server Meeting 19 22:51
sebsebsebtacone: and the BBC has an article about it   it also mentions how much money  Microsoft  may not get as a profit,  by doing  itJul 19 22:52
ThistleWebsebsebseb: did you read that office 2010 wont be as free as first seemed? Corporate users need a licence per user, and (I think) a Sharepoint licence to use online office 2010Jul 19 22:52
taconeitalian newspapers say it will make money online to recover the losses and that will inaugurate the big fight to googleJul 19 22:53
sebsebsebThistleWeb: nope, but that's far enough really,   companies are the ones that tend to have loads of money to waste on Microsoft stuff anywayJul 19 22:53
taconems is the hero fighting googleJul 19 22:53
sebsebsebThistleWeb: fair enougn not far enough aboveJul 19 22:53
taconenot that google is that evil thing. they don't bother users to get a genuine google copyJul 19 22:53
sebsebsebas  long as Office 2010  works  on  non Microsoft OS's as well,  Linux distros, Mac, etc,  well  it's not that bad I guessJul 19 22:54
sebsebsebI meant  the web based oneJul 19 22:54
sebsebsebobviously Microsoft won't port  the  proper product to Desktop Linux,  maybe make a version for MacJul 19 22:54
ThistleWebyeah, lets see.....a free online office suite by a popular web company who know what they're doing on the web and have built their reputation on good products......or paying a fee to use a web version fron a company who habitually gets it wrongJul 19 22:54
ThistleWebactually, to be fair Google do offer corporate dealsJul 19 22:55
ThistleWebwith more guarantees of uptime etcJul 19 22:55
sebsebsebThistleWeb: well  the web based one is meant to be for anyone with a Windows Live account,  as in the homeusers/consumersJul 19 22:55
ThistleWebat a priceJul 19 22:55
trmanco 19 22:55
ThistleWebyep, the same live accounts that non-Windows peeps can't log intoJul 19 22:55
sebsebsebThistleWeb: hotmail can be used on LinuxJul 19 22:56
ThistleWebat least they're not forcing IEJul 19 22:56
ThistleWebwhich makes a changeJul 19 22:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] milw0rm 9158 stack overflow crash not exploitable (CVE-2009-2479): 19 22:56
sebsebsebno IE8   with Windows 7 by default in Europe :)Jul 19 22:56
ThistleWebmaybe the see the writing on the wall, and don't want to limit their potential userbaseJul 19 22:56
sebsebsebhopefuly the OEM's will put Firefox or  Opera or some such on insteadJul 19 22:56
ThistleWebsebsebseb: that's not good news, it's a scamJul 19 22:57
ThistleWebthey know they can force OEMs to put IE onJul 19 22:57
sebsebsebThistleWeb: what?  and they are doing it to comply with the  European Commision,  the anti trust and anti competition laws they broke and suchJul 19 22:57
Chips_B_MalroyMicrosoft Customer Satisfaction Plummets in VendorRate Q2 Report 19 22:57
ThistleWebthe end result is that they avoid the EU penalty, blame the EU for the situation and still have PC's going to consumers with IEJul 19 22:57
ThistleWebthe EU never asked them to go without any browserJul 19 22:58
sebsebsebnot if  the EC   does it properly, they won'tJul 19 22:58
ThistleWebthey dont waht thatJul 19 22:58
ThistleWebthey never wanted thatJul 19 22:58
ThistleWebMS jumped the gun, and announced that as THEIR solutionJul 19 22:58
ThistleWebthen blamed the EU for the falloutJul 19 22:58
ThistleWebthe EU's prefered solution would be to have a number of browsers that user could select from by defaultJul 19 22:59
schestowitzBanshee meeting... 19 22:59
schestowitzThistleWeb: yes, it's a stuntJul 19 22:59
sebsebsebpeople in Europe have to clean install for  Windows 7,   well that's a good thing,   since clean installing will  mean  all/most  malicious programs are goneJul 19 23:00
ThistleWebsebsebseb: eh? this only affects IE from the base install, not all the trialware companies like Norton pay to have on new pcsJul 19 23:01
ThistleWebit dont affect any MS lack of securityJul 19 23:01
ThistleWebit's ONLY about whether IE is installed by defaultJul 19 23:01
ThistleWebeven after it's removed, some parts of it are left behind as they are too core to WindowsJul 19 23:02
sebsebsebThistleWeb: you know what a botnet is right?Jul 19 23:02
ThistleWebit's just the browser part that's goneJul 19 23:02
ThistleWebof courseJul 19 23:02
twitterYeah, it's not like people are going to get a choice of OS.Jul 19 23:02
sebsebsebThistleWeb: if a computer  that is  part of a botnet get's clean installed,  it  probably will no longer be part of that botnetJul 19 23:02
ThistleWebwhich applies to a clean install of any OSJul 19 23:02
Chips_B_MalroyMS wants to settled now with the EU so it can release Seven.  MS will release Seven with or without the EU appovial, but knows it will be fined laterJul 19 23:03
sebsebsebThistleWeb: yep  and Windows 7 will be a reason for many people to do clean installsJul 19 23:03
ThistleWebOSX, Linux or WindowsJul 19 23:03
twitterIt takes less time for a "clean" Winblows box to get owned than it does to download patches.Jul 19 23:03
sebsebsebThistleWeb: well in Europe anyway, since they can't just upgrade to itJul 19 23:03
twitterIt's not a matter of if your Windows box is part of a bot net, it's a matter of how many and what are they doing.Jul 19 23:03
ThistleWebyou're dreaming. It'll be an excuse for peeps to assume their PC cant take Windows 7, and have to throw it out to go buy a new one with Windows 7 already onJul 19 23:03
sebsebsebtwitter: indeed, also  you can do as much scanning and so on  as you want, but can't guarantee the malware is truely goneJul 19 23:03
ThistleWebspecially if the spec is rightJul 19 23:04
ThistleWebmost normal peeps dont install an OSJul 19 23:04
ThistleWebwhen it gets slow, they assume it needs replacedJul 19 23:04
ThistleWebso they go buy a new PCJul 19 23:04
ThistleWebthey dont know theres any separation between the OS and the PCJul 19 23:04
twitterscanning has to be done on network traffic to know what's going on.  Of course, Windows is not what you use for that.Jul 19 23:04
ThistleWebto them, it's all one thingJul 19 23:04
sebsebsebwell throwing out  the old PC which was part of the botnet same thing,  no longer part of a botnetJul 19 23:05
ThistleWebthe people who do know about OS's and do wipe and install, are not liekly the ones who leave gaping holes to get infected anywayJul 19 23:05
twitterWell, you don't have to throw the computer out, you could just put some nice free software on it.Jul 19 23:05
ThistleWebyep, that assumes they know about or care about OS securityJul 19 23:05
ThistleWebor have the money to go buy a new PC, if the old one still works for themJul 19 23:06
sebsebsebtwitter: or disconnect it from the net,   but  also most of them won't know  there computer is being used  for that, of course anywayJul 19 23:06
HivenGlavenmost dont even know or care about OS'sJul 19 23:06
twitterNo one can get rid of M$'s gaping holes but M$ and they don't have the resources to do it.Jul 19 23:06
ThistleWebpeeps who understand about OS's / security etc are more likely to CHOOSE their OS, not use the default that comes with itJul 19 23:07
sebsebsebtwitter: if  that's really true,  maybe  they could  be like   Virtualbox,   have a closed source version with some extra features,   and an opensource version.    yep I am talking having to versions of Windows,   but right the problem is,   it's not so easy for them tod do that kind of thing,  since they want to continue to sell Windows, even though they already have a lot of moneyJul 19 23:07
ThistleWebtwitter: minimize the holes as much as the regular user can without being paranoid and spending all day doing itJul 19 23:07
twitterYes, but free software users have to go through all sorts of trouble with uncooperative device makers.Jul 19 23:07
sebsebsebwell  one day ReactOS will be readyJul 19 23:08
sebsebsebthat will be our opensource version of Windows :)Jul 19 23:08
twitterThe only fix for Windows is to liberate it.Jul 19 23:08
ThistleWebyep, finally, I can't wait for an open source version of a version of Windows that's 10 years oldJul 19 23:08
ThistleWebit'll be much better than that modern rubbish I have to useJul 19 23:08
sebsebsebindeedJul 19 23:08
twitterIf M$ were to liberate Windows, it might be worth using in five years or so.Jul 19 23:09
sebsebseband  realistically  most of the apps people  want to run that are Windows apps, are XP appsJul 19 23:09
*ThistleWeb thinks sebsebseb missed the sarcasm in my last commentJul 19 23:09
sebsebsebThistleWeb: I thought you were being sarcastic at first,  but  then the second bitJul 19 23:09
ThistleWebI have XP on a dual boot, I only use it when I REALLY have to, I try to plan it out so I spend as little time there as possibleJul 19 23:10
sebsebsebI have   Ubuntu and Vista  on dual boot,  in fact I been looking for another distro, but hmmJul 19 23:10
ThistleWebthe only reason I dual boot is that my PC ain't big enough for a virtual XPJul 19 23:10
sebsebsebanyway I haven't  booted up  Vista  since some time last yearJul 19 23:10
twitterI have not had to use Windows in the last ten years or so.Jul 19 23:10
twitterMy work uses it, so I'm still in touch with what shit it is.Jul 19 23:11
sebsebsebtwitter: hehJul 19 23:11
ThistleWebif it wasn't for Creative tying into Windows Media Player I wouldn't have to dual boot at allJul 19 23:11
sebsebsebThistleWeb: you can Wine WMPJul 19 23:11
schestowitz 19 23:11
twitterWhat piece of hardware do you have?Jul 19 23:11
sebsebsebwho?Jul 19 23:12
twitterIt would be better to replace the hardware than to fool around with Windows.Jul 19 23:12
ThistleWebso when I encode videos for my Zen, the only encoding that seems to work consistently is Creative's own software which won't work in Linux at allJul 19 23:12
twitterAh.Jul 19 23:12
twitterI'll have to stay away from Zen.Jul 19 23:12
twittershameJul 19 23:12
ThistleWebso I have no choice but to bump stuff across to my XP partition, reboot into it and encodeJul 19 23:13
twitterWine won't do?Jul 19 23:13
Chips_B_Malroywhat kind of vid's do you encode ThishleWeb?  flash?Jul 19 23:13
ThistleWebit's a great player, gnomad2 works fine for interacting with it, it's just encoding videos for it that's a painJul 19 23:13
ThistleWebit variesJul 19 23:13
ThistleWebsome codecs encode fine with avidemuxJul 19 23:14
ThistleWebothers just dontJul 19 23:14
schestowitzMozilla quashes first critical bug in Firefox 3.5, beats Microsoft to patch punch < >  "Microsoft's IE ActiveX vulnerability, disclosed same day as Firefox's bug, not yet fixed"Jul 19 23:14
Chips_B_Malroyavidemux is great program, agreedJul 19 23:14
ThistleWebif I could find the magic mencoder command with the flags I'd be happyJul 19 23:14
twitterThe shill press seems to be talking up Yahoo/M$ talks again.Jul 19 23:14
ThistleWebthat way I could pass that to the vid, and know the output file will workJul 19 23:14
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Chips_B_Malroylet me get u a link ThistlewebJul 19 23:14
ThistleWebgetting stuff onto and off of the Zen is fine with gnomad2Jul 19 23:15
ThistleWebplaylist stuff is fine tooJul 19 23:15
ThistleWebit's just damn video encodingJul 19 23:15
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jessica_lillywhyJul 19 23:15
schestowitzBecause.Jul 19 23:15
twitterwhatJul 19 23:15
ThistleWebdespite all that, the Zen is a nice mp4 playerJul 19 23:16
Chips_B_MalroyThistleWeb: 19 23:16
Chips_B_Malroyread though that and see if it is anything like what you doJul 19 23:17
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ThistleWeboh yeah, and the Zen don't recognise ogg, just FYIJul 19 23:17
ThistleWebsome players do, but dont mention it in the spec listJul 19 23:17
ThistleWebor at least mine dontJul 19 23:17
Chips_B_MalroyI use smplayer , kaffene and Xine as my main playersJul 19 23:18
ThistleWebsmplayer is awesomeJul 19 23:18
Chips_B_Malroyand there is a port of smplayer for windows as well, which is a good replacement for WMPJul 19 23:18
ThistleWebcheers for that link, the second last post may do the trick with ffmpegJul 19 23:19
ThistleWebyeah I noticed that a few weeks backJul 19 23:19
Chips_B_Malroyglad you like it, hope it helps u 2Jul 19 23:19
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Chips_B_Malroyffmpeg is great program,  and Vive is a gui front end for itJul 19 23:20
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ThistleWebI'll try it tomorrow maybe when I'm less tired, but yeah I found that a few vids worked but wouldn't allow easy forwarding / rewinding. the Zen also remembers where the video was last played to if encoded rightJul 19 23:21
twitterIf you want mpeg4, upload it to youtube then get it back with cliveJul 19 23:21
ThistleWebit was VERY hit and miss with every method I triedJul 19 23:21
twitterotherwise, you might be running into patent problems.Jul 19 23:21
twitterthere's a free software site that provides the "essential codecs" but they can't be distributed in the US and other non free countries.Jul 19 23:22
twitterHere's M$ acting poorly to their own people 19 23:22
twitterniceJul 19 23:23
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Chips_B_Malroytwitter, the patent problems.  Most likely they never sue home users.  But Distro's yes,  its why MONO is a problemJul 19 23:23
twitterright, but it's also why some video formats don't work out of the boxJul 19 23:23
ThistleWebI just got annoyed with the spec sheet on the Zen saying it supports wmv with wma sound (the default the Creative app uses) and mp4 yet when I do that it sometimes partly worksJul 19 23:24
twitterI have not seen any like that in a long time, but it has happened before.Jul 19 23:24
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ThistleWebanyhoo, I'll drop the subject and try those options later tyJul 19 23:24
sebsebsebwebpigeon: hi welcome to the channalJul 19 23:24
twitterwhen things don't work with free software, I take them back for a refund.Jul 19 23:25
ThistleWebbrbJul 19 23:25
twitterYou don't have to mention anything other than, "It did not work with my computer"Jul 19 23:25
Chips_B_Malroyonly place u can, cause ms will not give u any backJul 19 23:25
twitterWindows people have these problems frequently, so the store will give you your money back without a problem.Jul 19 23:26
twitterUsually.Jul 19 23:26
Chips_B_MalroyyesJul 19 23:26
Chips_B_Malroythe store yes, not msJul 19 23:27
twitterhere comes the bad news for M$ and the blow softening and excuses has already started.Jul 19 23:27
twitter 19 23:27
twitter 19 23:27
twitterterrible scripts in that last oneJul 19 23:29
twitter->    Wall Street analysts on average estimate that Microsoft will post earnings of 36 cents a share for the period ending in June, on $14.38 billion in revenue, according to data from Thomson Reuters.     That compares with earnings of 46 cents a share and $15.84 billion in revenue in the same period a year earlierJul 19 23:29
twitter22% decline.Jul 19 23:30
sebsebsebWhat's so bad about Novell?   Ok Mono  which  some will say is rather bad,  thing is Banshee and F-Spot are ok apps.   Then of course the  Novell  and Microsoft patents deal,  but other then this?Jul 19 23:30
twitterother than selling everyone out, nothing.Jul 19 23:30
sebsebsebtwitter: selling everyone out???Jul 19 23:30
twittertaking money from M$ and validating bogus patent claims.  that's a sell out.Jul 19 23:31
sebsebsebtwitter: are they really bogus though?  ,but what I read before is basically if they say which patents,   the proggrammers will just program round them anywayJul 19 23:32
twitterNovell is partly responsible for M$'s patent extortionJul 19 23:32
twitteryes, software patents are really bogusJul 19 23:32
Chips_B_MalroyNice link Twitter, even I did not think it would be that badJul 19 23:32
twitterand M$ won't even specify which ones they areJul 19 23:32
sebsebsebyepJul 19 23:32
twitterI've got a little write up on M$'s patent claims.Jul 19 23:33
twitter 19 23:33
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twitterIt's been a lie all along.Jul 19 23:33
twitterM$ has tried to claim ownership of code they fought tooth an nail for a decade.  Novell has helped them make that claim.Jul 19 23:34
twitterNow that Novell has validated those bogus claims they seek to shove mono into everyone's face and try to use their payoff as some sort of market differentiator.Jul 19 23:35
twitterChips_B_Malroy, we don't really know what M$ will actually post.Jul 19 23:36
Chips_B_MalroyNovell is just trying to survive by taking the Borg's money.  But it will not work.  Novell needs to sell out the company like Sun didJul 19 23:36
twitterIt could be better or worse.Jul 19 23:36
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: sell it out to who?  Microsoft?Jul 19 23:36
twitterNovell could have trimmed down and become a free software company like Red Hat did.Jul 19 23:36
twitterRed Hat has been growing while Novell has been failing.Jul 19 23:37
sebsebsebyepJul 19 23:37
twitterDoing as M$  says is only good for M$.  Those that survive are those that get out from under the M$ thumb.Jul 19 23:37
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sebsebsebwhy did  Sun   sell themselves to Oracale?Jul 19 23:38
tacone1money ?Jul 19 23:39
tacone1or ponies, maybeJul 19 23:39
schestowitzI've just banned leftyJul 19 23:39
schestowitzHe saw the new policyJul 19 23:39
schestowitzAnd violated it twiceJul 19 23:39
tacone1wow, link ?Jul 19 23:39
oiaohmMostly size sebsebsebJul 19 23:39
oiaohmSun was slowly getting run under.Jul 19 23:39
sebsebsebschestowitz: may I make a friendly freenode guidelines suggestion?Jul 19 23:39
Chips_B_MalroyNovell is not all evil, its doing the bidding of the Borg, because it gets the money, and M$ wants Silverlight in Linux, with other poisons perhaps.  M$ doesn't want to be seen porting anything to Linux also.  Because Linux is only 1%, if you believe Net APPS, which MS pays forJul 19 23:39
oiaohmSun did not only try to sell themselves to Oracle.Jul 19 23:40
sebsebsebschestowitz: well I wil anyway,   don't show op all the timeJul 19 23:40
schestowitzWhat do you mean "show"?Jul 19 23:40
sebsebsebthere's a page about itJul 19 23:40
schestowitzOhJul 19 23:40
oiaohmSun tried to sell themselves to everyone bar novell who are platium members in the Linux foundation.Jul 19 23:41
schestowitzGetting ops only when required?Jul 19 23:41
sebsebsebschestowitz: yesJul 19 23:41
schestowitzOKJul 19 23:41
tacone1schestowitz: that's a best practiceJul 19 23:41
schestowitzI used to do that. We still need another op for when one's awayJul 19 23:41
Chips_B_Malroybut the truth is M$ cannot beat Google, or Adobe Flash, so it needs to port Silverlight to Linux somehow, enter Novell.  MS knows that Linux has more share than Mac.  Why else port Silverlight?Jul 19 23:41
twitterNovell is failing.  Cooperating with M$ will do that to you.Jul 19 23:41
tacone1whatever that meansJul 19 23:41
schestowitzA troll has been using this channel today (and the BN blog) to libel me a lotJul 19 23:41
schestowitzWe had to ban himJul 19 23:41
twitterGoogle doing well 19 23:41
tacone1boycottnovell down ?Jul 19 23:41
sebsebsebschestowitz: oh  I am sure loads of people here would love to become opJul 19 23:41
oiaohmNovell is not exactly failing.Jul 19 23:42
tacone1someone got angry :)Jul 19 23:42
twitterprofits up 19%Jul 19 23:42
oiaohmNovell only growing department is Linux.Jul 19 23:42
schestowitzTHey sell lose money, oiaohm Jul 19 23:42
schestowitzNovell loses money in SUSEJul 19 23:42
*tacone1 guessing we just discovered who the dosser isJul 19 23:42
schestowitzAFAIKJul 19 23:42
schestowitzI hear contradoictory reports sometimesJul 19 23:42
tacone1DOSS ?Jul 19 23:42
twitter->  Net income rose 19 percent to $1.48 billion, or $4.66 a share, from $1.25 billion, or $3.92, a year earlier, the company said today in a statement. Excluding revenue passed on to partner sites, sales were $4.07 billion, compared with an estimate of $4.06 billion in a Bloomberg survey of analysts.Jul 19 23:42
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schestowitzThe impression I have left is that SUSE was described as something Novell see GROWTH in, but not monetary success if it still loses moneyJul 19 23:43
oiaohmschestowitz: Novell is lossing more money in there closed source departments that most people know nothing about.Jul 19 23:43
schestowitzGRWOTH means all sorts of things, depending on how it's measured. But I'd have to recheck to be sureJul 19 23:43
twitterNovell will see neither growth nor success unless they renounce software patents.Jul 19 23:43
oiaohmFunny enouth only part of Novell that could be profitable is SUSE.Jul 19 23:44
Chips_B_MalroyNetware cannot be a moneymaker anymoreJul 19 23:44
oiaohmMostly because MS is pushing it.Jul 19 23:44
schestowitzping tessier Jul 19 23:44
tacone1ohohoh someone just fired up his wgetJul 19 23:44
schestowitzMaybeJul 19 23:45
twittersame someone as just got banned fired up their wget?Jul 19 23:47
tacone1twitter: eheh we'll never know. maybe :)Jul 19 23:47
sebsebsebanyone in here use Novell?  :DJul 19 23:48
oiaohmNot at moment sebsebseb but I do have to use it if that is what businesses want.Jul 19 23:49
tacone1i use compiz. does that count ? :)Jul 19 23:49
Chips_B_Malroylong time ago before Novell got It I use it for awhileJul 19 23:49
sebsebsebtacone1: compiz   is made by Novell???Jul 19 23:49
notzedthey're stuck a bit in their glory days when they made so much money.  and their customers don't like any change ... until they just drop novell stuff entirelyJul 19 23:49
sebsebseboiaohm: what do you do?Jul 19 23:50
tacone1it was a novell initiativeJul 19 23:50
Chips_B_Malroybut mostly back then I was still a Windows userJul 19 23:50
Diablo-D3[07:03:31] <oiaohm> Funny enouth only part of Novell that could be profitable is SUSE.Jul 19 23:50
tacone1then it was forked and counter forkedJul 19 23:50
Diablo-D3oiaohm: not trueJul 19 23:50
Diablo-D3oiaohm: mono is very profitable... have you seen how much microsoft pays them?Jul 19 23:50
oiaohmMono is less profitable than the SUSE section.Jul 19 23:51
sebsebsebtacone1: oh yeah the first  Compiz  was NovellJul 19 23:51
sebsebsebtacone1: then Beryl  as a fork, and then that got forked  back into Compiz FushionJul 19 23:51
oiaohmNot exactly correct sebsebsebJul 19 23:51
Chips_B_MalroySo what happens in 2 years time when the hidden agreement between Novell and the Borg comes to an end?  Doesn't GPL3 stop future agreements like this againJul 19 23:51
tacone1I'm a big fan of novell devs :)Jul 19 23:51
sebsebseboiaohm: what's the exact correct then?Jul 19 23:51
oiaohmCompiz started out as a joint NovellJul 19 23:51
oiaohmRedhatJul 19 23:51
oiaohmProject.Jul 19 23:51
oiaohmNovell double crossed Redhat so they could release it working first.Jul 19 23:52
tacone1oiaohm: elaborateJul 19 23:52
tacone1it was a redhat project ?Jul 19 23:52
sebsebsebschestowitz: why  boycottnovell instead of  boycottmicrosoft ?Jul 19 23:52
schestowitzI didn't choose the domain nameJul 19 23:52
Chips_B_Malroycareful royJul 19 23:52
oiaohmBoth redhat and novell were working on the GLX framework that compiz depends on.    compiz started life as the test application for what they were doing.Jul 19 23:53
sebsebsebChips_B_Malroy: heh,  true I might be Steve Ballmer in desguise or something :DJul 19 23:53
schestowitzNovell is attack vector on LinuxJul 19 23:53
ThistleWebMS have always been hostile, Novell pre-MS-sell-out were supposedly one of the Linux / FOSS communityJul 19 23:53
tacone1uh, interesting oiaohmJul 19 23:53
oiaohmPart way threw development novell decide to change to internal developers only.Jul 19 23:53
schestowitzMicrosoft's 'Linux department'Jul 19 23:53
oiaohmSo execulding redhat.Jul 19 23:53
oiaohmAnd every other interested open source developer.Jul 19 23:53
sebsebsebschestowitz: what do you mean by that?Jul 19 23:53
Chips_B_Malroyor Lefty, but you probably okJul 19 23:54
oiaohmNovell took up Linux because netware failed.Jul 19 23:54
oiaohmThey are not really a friend of Linux.Jul 19 23:54
notzedtheir mindset is pretty much proprietary through and throughJul 19 23:54
sebsebseboiaohm: Netware was  pretty popular,   and yeah with my limited  Novell knowledge,   I thought the same thing before,   Novell aren't really a freesoftware/opensource company they  bought OpenSuse  to make moneyJul 19 23:55
ThistleWebthere are plenty of companies who use FOSS / Linux for their own aims primarily on cost without caring at all about what powers itJul 19 23:55
oiaohmNovell actions have been harmful to the Linux world before MS got mixed up with Novell.Jul 19 23:55
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sebsebsebRedhat  make money as well, but  they respect the opensource/freesoftware community and such as wellJul 19 23:55
oiaohmLot of companies use OSS to there open ends.Jul 19 23:55
tacone1they also love rmsJul 19 23:55
oiaohmVery few double cross developers.Jul 19 23:56
sebsebsebtacone1: Redhat do?Jul 19 23:56
tacone1no. sorry. that is wrongJul 19 23:56
tacone1i confused tihngs :)Jul 19 23:56
tacone1i don't know if they love him or not.Jul 19 23:56
oiaohmIe open source a project  once showing promise switch to internal development so they can release first.  As novell has done many times.Jul 19 23:56
sebsebsebGoogle aren't 100% Linux friendly though I guess,   hence for example  why there is no Google Talk app for Linux, well I think there may be on Android, but  otherwise noJul 19 23:57
oiaohmAny project Redhat has released the source code to and invited OSS developers in they will never kick them out.Jul 19 23:57
oiaohmGoogle Talk is jabber protocal sebsebsebJul 19 23:57
oiaohmGoogle saw no need to release another jabber client on Linux.Jul 19 23:57
sebsebseboiaohm: I know, but this is  a nice app  sadly   what I just saidJul 19 23:58
ThistleWebGoogle are mixed on FOSS, they do favour Windows for their apps, but on the other hand they run all Linux servers for their web front end, and have Summer Of Code which helps FOSS prohectsJul 19 23:58
ThistleWebevery time you interact with Google, you use LinuxJul 19 23:58
oiaohmGoogle is not hostile.Jul 19 23:58
oiaohmThey are like redhat.Jul 19 23:58
notzedwhat's the voice/video protocol in google talk?Jul 19 23:58
tacone1jabberJul 19 23:59
sebsebsebyeah the voice/video  dosn't work in Gmail on Linux,  I think it will in WindowsJul 19 23:59
sebsebsebthere was something that woudn't work on Linux in gmailJul 19 23:59
tacone1uhm. maybe it was released for linuxJul 19 23:59
tacone1?Jul 19 23:59
oiaohmvoice and video can be made work with the right jabber client on Linux sebsebsebJul 19 23:59
tacone1i guess there were news on that frontJul 19 23:59
oiaohmgtalk uses nothing special.Jul 19 23:59
sebsebseboiaohm: what's a good jabber client,  Pidgin isn't that great reallyJul 19 23:59
tacone1please checkJul 19 23:59

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