| ziggyfish | cubezzz, http://cubezzz.homelinux.org/drupal/?q=node/view/172 | Jan 26 00:07 |
|---|---|---|
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: 1,000,000 cubes optimally solved | Domain of the Cube Forum .::. Size~: 13.32 KB | Jan 26 00:07 |
| ziggyfish | that's a nice article | Jan 26 00:07 |
| cubezzz | yes, it's hardcore :) | Jan 26 00:08 |
| cubezzz | hmmm, what is Tom talking about then | Jan 26 00:08 |
| cubezzz | obviously you guys can see it ok | Jan 26 00:08 |
| cubezzz | still 1 million cubes is a drop in the bucket | Jan 26 00:09 |
| ziggyfish | I thought you would of been able to do more than 20 cubes per minute with a core i7. | Jan 26 00:11 |
| cubezzz | that's fast actually | Jan 26 00:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | loli7 | Jan 26 00:12 |
| ziggyfish | I might give it a go, and see I can beat that. | Jan 26 00:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100125/us_nm/us_usa_economy_gates | Jan 26 00:15 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bill Gates says U.S. recovery to take years, taxes rise - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 107.73 KB | Jan 26 00:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | see | Jan 26 00:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | this is one of the few times bill gates and I agree | Jan 26 00:15 |
| cubezzz | that's stupid if the trend micro software is blocking my site | Jan 26 00:17 |
| cubezzz | I told him to use a linux box then :) | Jan 26 00:17 |
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| TheMadHatter | Roy, you around? | Jan 26 00:21 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jan 26 00:23 |
| TheMadHatter | OK. Suggestion. Split up the Bill Gates information into several pages. One for taxes, one for investments, etc., so that it's easier to find things. | Jan 26 00:23 |
| TheMadHatter | Good morning! | Jan 26 00:23 |
| schestowitz | I told ender2070_ to read/subs to your blog some hours ago | Jan 26 00:23 |
| TheMadHatter | Heh. Did you see the newest? | Jan 26 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: BillG is an economist now? | Jan 26 00:24 |
| schestowitz | What is he /NOT/? | Jan 26 00:24 |
| TheMadHatter | Heh. Bill is a crook. Nothing more. | Jan 26 00:25 |
| schestowitz | But hey, he robbed a lot of people, he has a stash, so he must be very, very shrewd... like a fox | Jan 26 00:25 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter: for context | Jan 26 00:25 |
| schestowitz | [00:12] <Diablo-D3> loli7 | Jan 26 00:25 |
| schestowitz | [00:13] <ziggyfish> I might give it a go, and see I can beat that. | Jan 26 00:25 |
| schestowitz | [00:15] <Diablo-D3> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100125/us_nm/us_usa_economy_gates | Jan 26 00:25 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bill Gates says U.S. recovery to take years, taxes rise - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 107.94 KB | Jan 26 00:25 |
| schestowitz | [00:15] <phIRCe-BNc> Title: Bill Gates says U.S. recovery to take years, taxes rise - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 107.73 KB | Jan 26 00:25 |
| schestowitz | [00:15] <Diablo-D3> see | Jan 26 00:25 |
| schestowitz | [00:15] <Diablo-D3> this is one of the few times bill gates and I agree | Jan 26 00:25 |
| schestowitz | TheMadHatter: I saw the newest post as of 10pm my time | Jan 26 00:26 |
| schestowitz | I'm well behind news wide | Jan 26 00:26 |
| schestowitz | And away some of next week | Jan 26 00:26 |
| TheMadHatter | Corporate Copyright Scofflaws? | Jan 26 00:26 |
| schestowitz | Maybe. I read too fast to remember titles | Jan 26 00:26 |
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| schestowitz | I organised and refactored the feeds around xmas..... | Jan 26 00:27 |
| TheMadHatter | Hard to keep up with everything that's happening. Make that impossible. | Jan 26 00:27 |
| schestowitz | Yes, and I expanded scope | Jan 26 00:27 |
| schestowitz | I considered taking my eyes off Microsoft | Jan 26 00:28 |
| schestowitz | They are committing suicide anyway | Jan 26 00:28 |
| TheMadHatter | I've had to cut back. Otherwise I'll never get anything done. | Jan 26 00:28 |
| TheMadHatter | They are the same as the big 4 recording companies, trying to hold onto a business that they cannot compete in anymore. | Jan 26 00:29 |
| TheMadHatter | But they can do some damage before they crash. I see the same things, lobbying, political payoffs, etc. happening both with Microsoft and the Record labels. | Jan 26 00:31 |
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| TheMadHatter | gotta run - food. | Jan 26 00:35 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.androidspin.com/2009/09/25/the-android-open-source-mystery/ | Jan 26 01:02 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: AndroidSPIN | You heard it here, first, on AndroidSPIN. Your No.1 source for Android news. » Blog Archive » The Android Open Source Mystery! .::. Size~: 64.14 KB | Jan 26 01:02 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @mparent77772 "Straw's biggest lie goes..to the heart of the Q of whether the war was legal" http:// bit.ly/7VoGgD (eyewitness) #uk #iraq | Jan 26 01:09 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @mparent77772 "Straw's biggest lie goes..to the heart of the Q of whether the #war was legal" http://bit.ly/7VoGgD (eyewitness) #uk #iraq | Jan 26 01:12 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Craig Murray - Jack Straw's Biggest Lie .::. Size~: 86.77 KB | Jan 26 01:12 |
| ziggyfish | anyway guys, happy Australia day, I'm off for the next couple of hours | Jan 26 01:14 |
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| DaemonFC | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/01/one-day-after-latest-fix-microsoft-investigates-new-ie-flaw.ars | Jan 26 01:33 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: One day after latest fix, Microsoft investigates new IE flaw .::. Size~: 27.86 KB | Jan 26 01:33 |
| schestowitz | Old news | Jan 26 01:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Red-Hat-launches-opensource-com-community-site-912766.html | Jan 26 01:36 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Red Hat launches opensource.com community site - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 29.9 KB | Jan 26 01:36 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. deceiving headline: http://news.rediff.com/column/2010/jan/25/raman-an-open-letter-to-the-new-nsa.htm | Jan 26 01:39 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: An open letter to the new NSA: Rediff.com India News .::. Size~: 31.24 KB | Jan 26 01:39 |
| schestowitz | No uch agency] | Jan 26 01:39 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.dissociatedpress.net/2010/01/25/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-geekos/ | Jan 26 02:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: So long and thanks for all the Geekos! » Dissociated Press .::. Size~: 46.78 KB | Jan 26 02:06 |
| schestowitz | "Your shoes will be nearly impossible to fill at Novell, but I hope OpenSUSE replaces you with someone who is as dedicated and committed to FOSS as you are. I'm looking forward to seeing who has the smarts to hire you, and see you soon." | Jan 26 02:06 |
| *FurnaceBoy (n=FurnaceB@bas1-toronto10-1279398804.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 02:08 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Best Buy is now printing deceptive coupon ads | Jan 26 02:10 |
| DaemonFC | they have an ad that says $10 off Sandisk MP3 players, so you click on it and what they really meant was the player is full price but they'll sell you a slotradio (DRM'd microSD full of music) for $10 off | Jan 26 02:11 |
| schestowitz | This is why I love Firefox....... http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10440430-264.html | Jan 26 02:17 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Mozilla takes on YouTube video choice | Deep Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 61.57 KB | Jan 26 02:17 |
| schestowitz | They refuse to work for the "MPEG cartel"; instead they do what the FSF could not do alone. | Jan 26 02:18 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: wb | Jan 26 02:18 |
| schestowitz | We've had all your tweets here | Jan 26 02:19 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: This is also why I keep telling people to support Mozilla and not go astray to Google and other faux source browsers. | Jan 26 02:19 |
| ender2070_ | I don't think they'll rule out extensions for those who want to ignore the patents, lol | Jan 26 02:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzkxNw | Jan 26 02:20 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] GIMP 2.8 Scheduled For Release Post-Christmas .::. Size~: 15.29 KB | Jan 26 02:20 |
| schestowitz | Did you sign the petition? | Jan 26 02:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: hi | Jan 26 02:22 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Skype, please stop using 100% of one cpu. You're not *doing* anything. | Jan 26 02:25 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @qu1j0t3 Maybe you're assigned "supernode" | Jan 26 02:26 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @torontoist What's going on? RT @TorontoStar: Pedestrian death tolls rises to 14 in #GTA http://bit.ly/5DbKUo // tragic. good question | Jan 26 02:28 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Pedestrian death tolls rises to 14 in the GTA - thestar.com .::. Size~: 58.68 KB | Jan 26 02:28 |
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| sebsebseb | Hi | Jan 26 02:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | that rate of pedestrian deaths is twice the usual *total* homicide rate. | Jan 26 02:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | for GTA. | Jan 26 02:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | (5.5 million ppl) | Jan 26 02:31 |
| *FurnaceBoy scratches head | Jan 26 02:32 | |
| schestowitz | Sarah Palin In GOP Cabal With Rove, Cheney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLWya2RQSlg | Jan 26 02:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | duh :) | Jan 26 02:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | she's a Rovian device. 100% pure uncut cynicism. | Jan 26 02:34 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: Palin can't be criticised by men. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4wSjclwThA&NR=1 | Jan 26 02:37 |
| schestowitz | It makes them jealous, misogynist, or sexist, blah blah.. | Jan 26 02:37 |
| DaemonFC | $5 million to license MPEG for Firefox and it would only cover people on Windows and Mac | Jan 26 02:37 |
| DaemonFC | that's bullshit | Jan 26 02:37 |
| ender2070_ | theora is much better | Jan 26 02:38 |
| DaemonFC | there's no good explanation Google can give for this, so they're refusing to comment at all | Jan 26 02:38 |
| ender2070_ | its very odd | Jan 26 02:38 |
| ender2070_ | google has stakes in the tech behind theora | Jan 26 02:39 |
| DaemonFC | they should be promoting Theora and encouraging people to abandon IE and Safari or to install Chrome Tab | Jan 26 02:40 |
| DaemonFC | take a moment to point out why those browsers are defective and need the Chrome Tab plugin | Jan 26 02:40 |
| DaemonFC | Apple and Microsoft treat anything the public can use without asking for permission like the plague | Jan 26 02:41 |
| DaemonFC | they'll be damned if they'll have any part in supporting it | Jan 26 02:41 |
| DaemonFC | that's where ALAC came from (Apple Lossless Audio Codec) and WMAL (WMA Lossless) | Jan 26 02:41 |
| DaemonFC | they insist on having their own proprietary tool that's less efficient and entraps the user | Jan 26 02:42 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Avatar actor called the story "original" in behind-the-scenes video *cough* http://blogs.sun.com/kevinr/entry/avatar1 Nice tech tho #movies | Jan 26 02:42 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Avatar - kevin roebuck's blog .::. Size~: 18.26 KB | Jan 26 02:42 |
| DaemonFC | obviously the entrapment doesn't work as well when the codec is lossless, but it does maybe prevent the user from encountering better options on their own | Jan 26 02:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: nice. http://bit.ly/5AQ5Rw | Jan 26 02:43 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: This Modern World - Salon.com .::. Size~: 47.44 KB | Jan 26 02:43 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @tomtomorrow New (actually rerun) cartoon: language is a virus! http://bit.ly/5AQ5Rw // retweet with a bullet | Jan 26 02:43 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: This Modern World - Salon.com .::. Size~: 47.44 KB | Jan 26 02:43 |
| DaemonFC | I've tried ALAC and WMAL out of morbid curiosity and found that you're liable to get 10-15% worse compression out of either of them than FLAC | Jan 26 02:44 |
| DaemonFC | and 20% less than WavPack | Jan 26 02:44 |
| ender2070_ | google should make chrome tab for firefox | Jan 26 02:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | "Bill Gates dropped by The New York Times on Monday to discuss his full-time job as head of the Gates Foundation, the world?s largest philanthropy, especially its work in global health and development." | Jan 26 02:44 |
| ender2070_ | then you could stay with firefox and use a chrome tab for youtube | Jan 26 02:44 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] ViBGYOR 2010 Short And #Documentary Festival Film selection list is out http://bit.ly/5uDcq4 | Jan 26 02:44 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Vibgyor2010 Selection List with T Schedule .::. Size~: 47.19 KB | Jan 26 02:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/microsofts-bill-gates-defends-google-then-pans-it/#more-29547 // this should be fun. | Jan 26 02:44 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 26 02:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | "Mr. Gates was on his way to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, where he is expected to announce an expansion of the foundation?s vaccine programs in poor nations." | Jan 26 02:45 |
| DaemonFC | it's pretty sick how corporations with so much money to design something that works keep ending up coming back with something shittier than a thing put out by hobbyists | Jan 26 02:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: 40,000 engineers at Microsoft. | Jan 26 02:45 |
| ender2070_ | 40,000 different wheels | Jan 26 02:45 |
| DaemonFC | so I have to dedicate 1/5th more storage if I decide to use Microsoft or Apple lossless codecs | Jan 26 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | that's kind of unreasonabl | Jan 26 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | *unreasonable | Jan 26 02:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/cio/article.php/1563701 | Jan 26 02:46 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Software Project Failure: The Reasons, The Costs — Datamation.com .::. Size~: 78.72 KB | Jan 26 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | lossless files are already pretty massive anyway, and if their codecs can't even give me significant compression vs leaving them as WAV, why use it? | Jan 26 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070_: Theora is disappointing as implemented by things like VLC, but that's an older version of the codec | Jan 26 02:48 |
| DaemonFC | Theora 1.1 is on par with anything h.264 is likely to produce | Jan 26 02:48 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: http://www.robertcowham.com/blog/99/microsoft-scm-and-large-projects/ | Jan 26 02:48 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft, SCM and Large Projects | Robert Cowham's Blog .::. Size~: 21.87 KB | Jan 26 02:48 |
| DaemonFC | it comes down to way pay to get equally good results you could have enjoyed for free | Jan 26 02:49 |
| DaemonFC | *why | Jan 26 02:49 |
| DaemonFC | Google should be pushing Theora, they are the 800 pound gorilla here, Apple doesn't have a Youtube, neither does Microsoft | Jan 26 02:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: more pointedly, http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/windows-shutdown-crapfest.html | Jan 26 02:50 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: moblog: The Windows Shutdown crapfest .::. Size~: 299.45 KB | Jan 26 02:50 |
| DaemonFC | this would be a perfect chance to cripple IE and Safari | Jan 26 02:50 |
| DaemonFC | they'd have millions more Chrome and Firefox users overnight if Youtube did not support h.264 | Jan 26 02:51 |
| DaemonFC | it does baffle me why they are doing things that are good for Microsoft and Apple | Jan 26 02:51 |
| DaemonFC | you know IE 9 is going to try to support MPEG-4 and Windows Media exclusively | Jan 26 02:51 |
| DaemonFC | try to get people to embed WMV in <video> | Jan 26 02:52 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Why #Microsoft flails & fails "I spent a full year working on a [#Vista] feature which should've been [done] in a week" http://bit.ly/KrnbG | Jan 26 02:53 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: moblog: The Windows Shutdown crapfest .::. Size~: 299.45 KB | Jan 26 02:53 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: "If you step back too far, [Vista] doesn’t look very impressive at all: It’s like XP with a spit-shine." - Thurrott | Jan 26 02:53 |
| DaemonFC | more like "looks like someone took a giant shit on top of XP" | Jan 26 02:54 |
| DaemonFC | 8-) | Jan 26 02:54 |
| DaemonFC | I remember seeing the RTM of Vista, or as I like to call it, the WTF build of Vista | Jan 26 02:55 |
| DaemonFC | as in WTF happened since Beta 2? | Jan 26 02:55 |
| DaemonFC | the beta was fast, like as in, faster than XP, then within the span of a couple months, you get RC2 which performed as poorly as the RTM | Jan 26 02:56 |
| DaemonFC | I'll be damned if I can tell you what they did, I was running it just fine on a Sempron 3100+ with 1 GB of RAM and a Geforce 6200 with 256 MB | Jan 26 02:57 |
| DaemonFC | and then it just dropped like a brick | Jan 26 02:57 |
| DaemonFC | WinFS is another sack of worms entirely | Jan 26 02:58 |
| DaemonFC | finally in Windows 7 it boils down to "Libraries" which are just glorified symlinks | Jan 26 02:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | why did you waste time with it | Jan 26 02:58 |
| DaemonFC | they drive you crazy though because you always forget and try to save files there just to have Windows tell you that you can't | Jan 26 02:58 |
| DaemonFC | I tried WinFS (the real WinFS) atop Windows XP and Server 2003 Enterprise | Jan 26 02:59 |
| DaemonFC | it was slow | Jan 26 02:59 |
| DaemonFC | felt like it cut your file access times in half | Jan 26 02:59 |
| DaemonFC | I'm certain that's why they gave up on it | Jan 26 02:59 |
| DaemonFC | a database on top of their file system is out of the question | Jan 26 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | they should scrap NTFS and make a new filesystem with a database built-in | Jan 26 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | they won't, but they should | Jan 26 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | it is impressive what they've done within the confines of NTFS though, such as the self healing part | Jan 26 03:01 |
| FurnaceBoy | does anyone care what they do? | Jan 26 03:01 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @cvvalencia Today in #crime: Über-thief Gates visits NYT. When money talks,they write it down http://bit.ly/6Ul51Z via @zimbalist @nytjim | Jan 26 03:01 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bits Blog - NYTimes.com .::. Size~: 59.95 KB | Jan 26 03:01 |
| DaemonFC | the system locks out only what it's repairing and doesn't make you wait through a really long chkdsk while the whole volume can't be mounted | Jan 26 03:01 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: ZFS has no fsck. | Jan 26 03:01 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: this stuff is not new, why wait 30 years for Microsoft to catch up to the state of the art? | Jan 26 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | ext2 was a nightmare | Jan 26 03:02 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: get out of the ghetto | Jan 26 03:02 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: of course, all write-in-place filesystems are obsolete | Jan 26 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | could make you wait for HOURS before the system was allowed to boot | Jan 26 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | XFS has fast fsck because it's willing to give a clean bill of health to a corrupted file system | Jan 26 03:03 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: if your hardware functions correctly ZFS is always consistent. | Jan 26 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | half your data could be gone, but as long as the volume is consistent, fsck will pass it with flying colors | Jan 26 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | that's why Google went with Ext4 over XFS, I know it is | Jan 26 03:04 |
| FurnaceBoy | maybe. | Jan 26 03:04 |
| FurnaceBoy | their situation is different from nearly everyone else's. | Jan 26 03:04 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's silly to extrapolate much from their choice | Jan 26 03:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | they only tested a small subset of available filesystems | Jan 26 03:05 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't trust XFS in Google's situation, they could sneeze and lose terabytes of data | Jan 26 03:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | copy-on-write probably makes no sense for them. | Jan 26 03:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | so they didn't test any COW systems. | Jan 26 03:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | but COW is the only way to have any integrity guarantees | Jan 26 03:06 |
| ender2070_ | <FurnaceBoy> DaemonFC: ZFS has no fsck. | Jan 26 03:06 |
| ender2070_ | doesnt need it | Jan 26 03:06 |
| FurnaceBoy | correct, if drive functions properly. | Jan 26 03:06 |
| ender2070_ | error correction is done on the fly | Jan 26 03:06 |
| FurnaceBoy | if drive doesn't function properly then you are screwed anyway. | Jan 26 03:06 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes, i'm very familiar with ZFS. :) | Jan 26 03:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC may not be. | Jan 26 03:07 |
| ender2070_ | if the drive doesn't function, it lets you know | Jan 26 03:07 |
| DaemonFC | the only file systems I've ever had data corruption problems with are FAT32 and XFS | Jan 26 03:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | ender2070_: i'm referring to flush | Jan 26 03:07 |
| ender2070_ | it automatically tries to recover from any mirrors available | Jan 26 03:07 |
| DaemonFC | that's me though | Jan 26 03:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: all write-in-place filesystems rely on dumb luck | Jan 26 03:07 |
| ender2070_ | I have a ZFS system I use as a fileserver | Jan 26 03:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | ender2070_: my colo uses it. I wouldn't spec a server without it. | Jan 26 03:07 |
| ender2070_ | i've had a 640gb drive die, and I replaced it while the machine was on | Jan 26 03:07 |
| ender2070_ | :) | Jan 26 03:08 |
| DaemonFC | what I don't get is why ReactOS is insisting on using NTFS via NTFS-3G | Jan 26 03:08 |
| DaemonFC | I'd just use Ext4 and have done with it | Jan 26 03:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | that may save them a lot of work | Jan 26 03:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | ReactOS are taking a newly pragmatic approach | Jan 26 03:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | which is probably wise | Jan 26 03:08 |
| DaemonFC | nothing but disk utilities are going to care what the file system is, right? | Jan 26 03:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | nah | Jan 26 03:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | it affects everything | Jan 26 03:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | to impl the API , you want a fs that has the same attributes and functionality | Jan 26 03:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | otherwise you're in impedance mismatch hell | Jan 26 03:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | see: POSIX talking to FAT,etc | Jan 26 03:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | or a million other examples | Jan 26 03:09 |
| DaemonFC | they should be farming out as much work as possible | Jan 26 03:09 |
| DaemonFC | anything suitably generic | Jan 26 03:09 |
| ender2070_ | im looking forward to btrfs | Jan 26 03:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: they're trying to use as much of WINE as possible now, instead of writing from scratch | Jan 26 03:09 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: As they should have been doing already | Jan 26 03:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | ender2070_: right, let's see if Oracle wants to run ZFS and btrfs ... would be wise. competition would be good. | Jan 26 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | Wine has dozens of programmers, ReactOS has a handful | Jan 26 03:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: right | Jan 26 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | let Wine do the work | Jan 26 03:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I think the new approach makes sense, but i have no real interest in reactos. i use wine a little. | Jan 26 03:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | ender2070_: theoretically now Oracle owns ZFS, the patent issue relaxes a lot, for btrfs, don't you think? | Jan 26 03:11 |
| DaemonFC | ReactOS is not a bad thing, a GPL'd clone of Windows is not any more or less ethical than a GPL'd clone of UNIX | Jan 26 03:11 |
| ender2070_ | FurnaceBoy - correct, as well as being able to actually use ZFS code, and vice versa | Jan 26 03:11 |
| DaemonFC | it would destroy Microsoft if it ever became reality | Jan 26 03:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I don't believe in dual boot. I only do it because I'm forced to (thx monopoly) | Jan 26 03:11 |
| sebsebseb | oh your talking about ReactOS | Jan 26 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | Who is to say that ReactOS would have all the design flaws and technical limitations of Windows? | Jan 26 03:12 |
| sebsebseb | yes that's a good thing that ReactOS will be using Wine a lot more | Jan 26 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | I think that they can avoid repeating a lot of the mistakes that made Windows prone to so much malware | Jan 26 03:13 |
| sebsebseb | indeed | Jan 26 03:13 |
| DaemonFC | and the bloat that keeps it from functioning on all but the newest hardware | Jan 26 03:13 |
| sebsebseb | ReactOS will be like a properly done Windows | Jan 26 03:13 |
| sebsebseb | maybe one day Micrrosoft will sponser/give them money even :D | Jan 26 03:13 |
| DaemonFC | don't count on it | Jan 26 03:13 |
| sebsebseb | I mean if Microsoft loses tons of market share with Windows | Jan 26 03:13 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] @schestowitz is that some kind of power-up? ;-) just kidding. aargh i suppose i should see what the LAN is up to | Jan 26 03:13 | |
| DaemonFC | more like, sue to get an injunction | Jan 26 03:13 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is more of a law office than a software design firm | Jan 26 03:14 |
| sebsebseb | Wine is important | Jan 26 03:14 |
| sebsebseb | Wine needs to improve a lot | Jan 26 03:14 |
| sebsebseb | that's the key really | Jan 26 03:14 |
| sebsebseb | for a lot of market share for Desktop Linux | Jan 26 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | Wine has improved a lot | Jan 26 03:14 |
| sebsebseb | it needs to be able to run pretty much every Windows app just like that, and well | Jan 26 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes a program error in Wine is due to conflicts with the X server, or the compositing engine | Jan 26 03:15 |
| sebsebseb | at the moment stuff about how Linux is a moving platform | Jan 26 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | things that won't be there in ReactOS | Jan 26 03:15 |
| sebsebseb | and how distros aren't all fully compatble with each other | Jan 26 03:15 |
| sebsebseb | and so a lot of commercial software hasn't been made for it | Jan 26 03:15 |
| sebsebseb | not just lack of market share | Jan 26 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | Linux makes a terrible platform to run Windows apps, because it's not Windows | Jan 26 03:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | ... | Jan 26 03:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the problem with that sentence is the "windows apps" part. | Jan 26 03:16 |
| sebsebseb | The Linux platform is apparnatly a terrible platform to program commercial software for, becasue of the reasons I just gaev | Jan 26 03:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: one day ISVs will produce software for the o/s you WANT to run. | Jan 26 03:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's inevitable, the unseen hand told me. | Jan 26 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | If you actually get something sufficiently complex to run well in Wine, so much the better, and there's a few examples of that | Jan 26 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | it does run a mean copy of MS Office though | Jan 26 03:17 |
| sebsebseb | people don't care that much what OS they run an app on in general | Jan 26 03:17 |
| sebsebseb | they just want to run that app on an OS where the app works | Jan 26 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | according to Wine, Microsoft improperly documents a lot of the Windows API | Jan 26 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | no doubt to throw them off | Jan 26 03:18 |
| sebsebseb | if that means they have to use Wine to get that app to work, that's fine with a lot of them | Jan 26 03:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: what on earth do you need Office specifically for? | Jan 26 03:19 |
| DaemonFC | I don't | Jan 26 03:19 |
| DaemonFC | I have a copy of pretty much all of them | Jan 26 03:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: of course they don't document it properly. that was a big part of the EU's complaint. | Jan 26 03:19 |
| DaemonFC | but I don't have it installed | Jan 26 03:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: *everything* they do is strategically or tactically aimed at lock-in. | Jan 26 03:19 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft carpet bombs students with everything they make | Jan 26 03:19 |
| DaemonFC | so I have a lot of their stuff | Jan 26 03:19 |
| *FurnaceBoy just runs OpenOffice | Jan 26 03:20 | |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: I use OOo | Jan 26 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | the government won't take ODF though | Jan 26 03:21 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] anyone else get the feeling Bristol Palin is going to wake up early one morning, take a long Greyhound trip, and change her name? | Jan 26 03:21 | |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: that's a crime | Jan 26 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | even though state law requires it | Jan 26 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I threatened to sue one agency over non-compliance with the law | Jan 26 03:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | why should you sue? it's a criminal matter. | Jan 26 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | and they took my ODF document after that | Jan 26 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | I had to guide them through opening it in MS Office | Jan 26 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: When the state does that, you have to sue them to get the court to order them to comply with the law | Jan 26 03:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | hm | Jan 26 03:23 |
| sebsebseb | Microsoft have done certain things right with Windows, and the ReactOS people know that | Jan 26 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | so that means taking them to small claims court | Jan 26 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: In this case, it's pretty clear cut that they are in the wrong | Jan 26 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | the law says that they have to take the file I sent, they refused | Jan 26 03:24 |
| sebsebseb | also really what quite a lot of people want, is an alternative to Windows, that is quite similar to it | Jan 26 03:24 |
| sebsebseb | is Ubuntu that? of course not | Jan 26 03:24 |
| sebsebseb | will ReactOS be that, when it is developed enough? of course | Jan 26 03:25 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I'd use ReactOS if it was reasonably compatible with Windows | Jan 26 03:25 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@fallow At the caffe: bible study group next to me is interpreting #Avatar // oh to be a fly on the wall | Jan 26 03:25 | |
| DaemonFC | I don't think anyone pays MS just for the thrill of being hundreds of dollars lighter | Jan 26 03:25 |
| sebsebseb | yeah I tried some older ones in virtual machine and I think from CD before even anyway whatever | Jan 26 03:25 |
| sebsebseb | ,but yeah | Jan 26 03:25 |
| sebsebseb | I coudn't run Windows apps | Jan 26 03:26 |
| sebsebseb | I didn't get far when I tried | Jan 26 03:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | awful! | Jan 26 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | paying Microsoft is as bad as having to pay for anything | Jan 26 03:26 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: what is? | Jan 26 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | it's not like you want your electric bill to arrive | Jan 26 03:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | what windows app is irreplaceable to you? | Jan 26 03:26 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: personally I don't need Windows apps, but the "average computer consumer" thinks they do, as well as lots of companies | Jan 26 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | it's not really a matter so much as what's irreplaceable as it is what doesn't have a suitable replacement | Jan 26 03:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: well, start replacing | Jan 26 03:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | there's no point in trying to co-exist with an enemy who doesn't want you to exist. | Jan 26 03:27 |
| sebsebseb | there are replacements for a lot of stuff | Jan 26 03:27 |
| sebsebseb | ,but then | Jan 26 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | very few applications are just so wonderful I'd never leave them :) | Jan 26 03:27 |
| sebsebseb | they aren't similar enough to the Windows versions of programs of that type | Jan 26 03:27 |
| sebsebseb | or they lack some feature etc | Jan 26 03:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | if you're thinking of Photoshop, | Jan 26 03:28 |
| sebsebseb | well some replacements are better then the propritary, Apache vs ISS for example | Jan 26 03:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | there is no reason why Adobe couldn't release that for Linux. | Jan 26 03:28 |
| sebsebseb | or the Linux kernel vs the Windows kernel? | Jan 26 03:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: nearly all | Jan 26 03:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | the point here is not that we need to run a windows-alike to get the software we want. | Jan 26 03:28 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: If they didn't have a Mac version, I might argue that it could be heavily dependant upon Windows | Jan 26 03:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | if the market was healthy (i.e. not monopolised), the software we want would already be available for the o/s we want to run. | Jan 26 03:28 |
| DaemonFC | but good software companies don't ever let it get to that point anyway | Jan 26 03:29 |
| sebsebseb | and then some programs it depends on the user, if they are better or worse than the propritary, for example Open Office vs Microsoft Office | Jan 26 03:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: all the major Adobe products began on the Mac. | Jan 26 03:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Illustrator didn't hit Windows till version 4.0 | Jan 26 03:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Photoshop till v3.0, I think. | Jan 26 03:29 |
| sebsebseb | some propritary software is pretty good really, or well lots of users think it is anyway, and yep no Linux versions, however that will be a good thing if Wine could run those programs properly | Jan 26 03:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: even InDesign was Mac first. | Jan 26 03:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: No. | Jan 26 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Adobe used to be very Mac-biased | Jan 26 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | they really aren't anymore | Jan 26 03:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it would be a good thing if ISVs recognised there are platforms other than Windows. | Jan 26 03:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: that's the endpoint | Jan 26 03:30 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: yes we need propritary software on Desktop Linux as well, for proper market share | Jan 26 03:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: for Adobe's first 10 years, more or less, they had nothing on WIndows | Jan 26 03:30 |
| sebsebseb | some think freedom is way more important | Jan 26 03:30 |
| sebsebseb | others think | Jan 26 03:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Windows was not in that market | Jan 26 03:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes | Jan 26 03:30 |
| sebsebseb | it's better to have Desktop Linux being more main streame | Jan 26 03:30 |
| sebsebseb | even if that meant most users would be running Wine for quite a lot of apps | Jan 26 03:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes. | Jan 26 03:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | sure, as a transition step, wine is valuable | Jan 26 03:31 |
| DaemonFC | for the first 10 years, Windows probably wasn't technically capable of running those programs anyway | Jan 26 03:31 |
| sebsebseb | software freedom, yes we all know here, that it's a good thing, I expect | Jan 26 03:31 |
| DaemonFC | until Windows 95 at least | Jan 26 03:31 |
| FurnaceBoy | but ultimately ppl will want native ... same as they did in every analogous transition. | Jan 26 03:31 |
| sebsebseb | and most of the geeks on freenode for that matter | Jan 26 03:31 |
| sebsebseb | ,but the average computer has never been educated about that | Jan 26 03:31 |
| sebsebseb | so they don't know about it | Jan 26 03:31 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @qu1j0t3 no, it's when skype chooses your PC to be a major hub | Jan 26 03:31 | |
| sebsebseb | and if you start trying to explain to a lot of them, most won't really get it, they just want apps that they think are good, running on their computer | Jan 26 03:32 |
| sebsebseb | and they don't tend to care what OS they are running either, just as long as those apps will work, oh and as long as the hardware they want to use will work | Jan 26 03:32 |
| FurnaceBoy | YES. | Jan 26 03:32 |
| FurnaceBoy | so there's no rationale for any particular proprietary platform. | Jan 26 03:32 |
| sebsebseb | native popular apps yes that' a good thing, but loads of apps will never be written for Desktop Linux, so it's good if they will run properly in Wine | Jan 26 03:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | windows was designed to do one thing. enrich Gates beyond dreams of avarice. mission accomplished, now we can move on and get work done. | Jan 26 03:33 |
| sebsebseb | Gates that reminds me, he is on Twitter now | Jan 26 03:33 |
| sebsebseb | and he has quite a following all ready | Jan 26 03:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | put that whole crime spree behind us. | Jan 26 03:33 |
| sebsebseb | and there's a book about computer history, with the photo of bill gates in prision as the front cover, or something like that | Jan 26 03:34 |
| sebsebseb | Bill Gates got in trouble with the police when he was young | Jan 26 03:34 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] @schestowitz I know, I was only kidding. | Jan 26 03:34 | |
| FurnaceBoy | he just learned how not to get caught | Jan 26 03:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | his smirk in that mugshot really tells the whole story | Jan 26 03:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | he knew one day he'd be bigger than the law | Jan 26 03:35 |
| sebsebseb | well hopefuly ReactOS is nice and ready | Jan 26 03:36 |
| sebsebseb | for main streame computer users | Jan 26 03:36 |
| sebsebseb | by | Jan 26 03:36 |
| sebsebseb | April 2014 | Jan 26 03:36 |
| sebsebseb | ideally around 2012 | Jan 26 03:36 |
| sebsebseb | since that's when Microsoft want business's to leave XP by the latest | Jan 26 03:36 |
| sebsebseb | no I don't think businesse's will just go and do ReactOS | Jan 26 03:36 |
| sebsebseb | ,but Ubuntu isn't properly for everyone who ends up trying it, in fact the Live CD won't even work properly on certain computers. ReactOS could be more for the "main streame Windows user" | Jan 26 03:37 |
| *shreddar (i=4c16e5e1@gateway/web/freenode/x-lvrdbmazrvivtbhp) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 03:37 | |
| sebsebseb | ReactOS developers working with Wine more, well both will improve that way :) | Jan 26 03:38 |
| ender2070_ | if they can work together | Jan 26 03:48 |
| FurnaceBoy | kumbaya my lord, kum-baya | Jan 26 03:49 |
| *ender2070_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jan 26 03:50 | |
| shreddar | I think Wine and ReactOS have been working together for years now. | Jan 26 03:51 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes but there were some recent shifts in ReactOS strategy | Jan 26 03:51 |
| shreddar | I'd like to read about (or watch) it. Link? | Jan 26 03:52 |
| sebsebseb | shreddar: ok i'll get you one | Jan 26 03:55 |
| sebsebseb | what you guys think of this by the way? | Jan 26 03:55 |
| sebsebseb | http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2010012500535OPUB | Jan 26 03:55 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Linux Today - Ubuntu, you blew your chance to go mainstream .::. Size~: 79.68 KB | Jan 26 03:55 |
| sebsebseb | linking there since comments, that I haven't read yet | Jan 26 03:55 |
| sebsebseb | shreddar: linking here since yep comments http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/2010012201635NWSWDV | Jan 26 03:56 |
| sebsebseb | no bot that time | Jan 26 03:56 |
| sebsebseb | http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer/2010012201635NWSWDV | Jan 26 03:56 |
| sebsebseb | hrm oh well | Jan 26 03:56 |
| schestowitz | This is an interesting documentary I've just finished watching. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1u2PrPqdUc | Jan 26 03:57 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: sensationalism] | Jan 26 03:57 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: what's that? | Jan 26 03:57 |
| schestowitz | It's an anti-Linux magazine | Jan 26 03:57 |
| schestowitz | Paid by Microsoft to paint the whole page with Vista hype | Jan 26 03:57 |
| schestowitz | He didn't choose the headline | Jan 26 03:58 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: what Tuxrader ? | Jan 26 03:58 |
| schestowitz | Editors do | Jan 26 03:58 |
| schestowitz | No | Jan 26 03:58 |
| schestowitz | The one above | Jan 26 03:58 |
| schestowitz | Never mind | Jan 26 03:58 |
| sebsebseb | oh the ReactOS link? | Jan 26 03:58 |
| schestowitz | I've just found this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot03CNJgnE8 Was it REALLY on BBC2?!?!?! | Jan 26 03:58 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 303 See Other .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 26 03:58 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: both links were on Linux today that I just gave | Jan 26 03:58 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: they do have adverts yes, but I don't think they are anti Linux or paid off by Microsoft | Jan 26 03:59 |
| schestowitz | I've just caught up | Jan 26 03:59 |
| schestowitz | Been working on daily links | Jan 26 03:59 |
| sebsebseb | they do have some Windows adverts, but a lot of these Linux sites do | Jan 26 03:59 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy has so many interesting things to say... | Jan 26 03:59 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: no | Jan 26 03:59 |
| schestowitz | What they used to | Jan 26 03:59 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: you flatterer | Jan 26 03:59 |
| schestowitz | Never mind | Jan 26 03:59 |
| schestowitz | I can explain in more details, but it's 4am here, I'm tired | Jan 26 03:59 |
| schestowitz | I also need to do 6 cycles of laundry tomorrow | Jan 26 04:00 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: plus they got Carla Shrodder (or however her name is spelt) the woman who did the Linux cook book or whatever it was | Jan 26 04:00 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yeah nearly 4am for both of us | Jan 26 04:00 |
| sebsebseb | the difference though is I am not tired since when I woke up etc | Jan 26 04:00 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: anyway tell me next time about the sites I guess | Jan 26 04:02 |
| sebsebseb | Carla as the Linux Today editor above yeah | Jan 26 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | 5 hours ahead of me | Jan 26 04:04 |
| DaemonFC | sounds about right | Jan 26 04:05 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: as for that Ubuntu article I linked to, well to Linux Today and then from there people can go to the article | Jan 26 04:05 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: I thought what a load of nonsense | Jan 26 04:05 |
| DaemonFC | well, sebsebseb, contextual advertisements | Jan 26 04:05 |
| sebsebseb | maybe since I didn't understand it properly, anyway Ubuntu hasn't really done anythning yet to compete properly against Windows, it seems Ubuntu 10.04 will be the start of that though | Jan 26 04:05 |
| DaemonFC | you mention Windows on the page and they pick up on that | Jan 26 04:05 |
| DaemonFC | suddenly you're serving Windows Server ads to all your readers | Jan 26 04:06 |
| sebsebseb | Linux Today has the Windows Server and such adds yes | Jan 26 04:06 |
| sebsebseb | banners for that | Jan 26 04:06 |
| sebsebseb | I am pretty sure I have seen Microsoft adverts on other websites where there was something Linux though, and not from the same company as Linux Today | Jan 26 04:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | SLashdot. | Jan 26 04:07 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: well there is Slashdot sure | Jan 26 04:07 |
| sebsebseb | ,but that's a bit to geek for my likeing or whatever | Jan 26 04:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | they run MS ads | Jan 26 04:07 |
| sebsebseb | oh and so many comments for like everything, and it's hard to go through most of it | Jan 26 04:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: increase your threshold. most are junk | Jan 26 04:08 |
| sebsebseb | well yes there is that | Jan 26 04:08 |
| sebsebseb | you can filter comments that aren't that good out | Jan 26 04:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | imagine how bad it was *before* moderation :) | Jan 26 04:08 |
| sebsebseb | ,but even so, I would prefer to read some of the ones that are junk really | Jan 26 04:08 |
| sebsebseb | as well | Jan 26 04:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | well, cost/benefit :D | Jan 26 04:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | i only read cmnts there when I'm really interested in a topic | Jan 26 04:08 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: oh the Microsoft adverts are so bad they say, but then you say slashdot do it as well | Jan 26 04:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: actually it doesn't bother me | Jan 26 04:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: MS advertising to that audience doesn't achieve much :) | Jan 26 04:09 |
| sebsebseb | indeed | Jan 26 04:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: technical ppl generally have picked a side. | Jan 26 04:10 |
| sebsebseb | side as in OS or? | Jan 26 04:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: so either way, the ads don't work much | Jan 26 04:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: i bet they get lots of complaints though :) | Jan 26 04:10 |
| sebsebseb | would be nice to have Linux adverts instead on that site really though, but I guess they just use some ad severt | Jan 26 04:10 |
| sebsebseb | server | Jan 26 04:10 |
| sebsebseb | that does Microsoft adds | Jan 26 04:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | well, microsoft's media buy is deliberate | Jan 26 04:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | they want to be advertising in front of linux ppl | Jan 26 04:11 |
| sebsebseb | I can understand Windows as a desktop OS | Jan 26 04:11 |
| sebsebseb | why a lot of people want to run it | Jan 26 04:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | being a Mac user, I can't. | Jan 26 04:12 |
| sebsebseb | ,but as a web server uhmm no | Jan 26 04:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | of course not. | Jan 26 04:12 |
| sebsebseb | as any type of server for that matter, uhmm no | Jan 26 04:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | right. it's just irrelevant | Jan 26 04:12 |
| sebsebseb | Fools run Windows as a server os, for a server! | Jan 26 04:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | i've met such fools. | Jan 26 04:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | they work 9 to 5, watch NASCAR, and that's it. | Jan 26 04:12 |
| sebsebseb | The server versions of Windows are really better as a Desktop OS as well. | Jan 26 04:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | they know nothing about technology. they just do what they think the boss wants. | Jan 26 04:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | the brightest might have MCSE. | Jan 26 04:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | no motive to explore anything else | Jan 26 04:13 |
| sebsebseb | well yeah | Jan 26 04:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's a ghetto, a closed world. | Jan 26 04:13 |
| sebsebseb | vender lock in | Jan 26 04:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | +1 | Jan 26 04:13 |
| sebsebseb | and an idea that, Microsoft is every where and so | Jan 26 04:13 |
| sebsebseb | working with Windows | Jan 26 04:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | and that's the most lucrative way. | Jan 26 04:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | that's why MS is totalitarian | Jan 26 04:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | by mature | Jan 26 04:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | nature* | Jan 26 04:14 |
| shreddar | Well, Arwinss sounds like a pretty nice design step for them. | Jan 26 04:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | if they could have 100%, they would, and it would be a horrible world | Jan 26 04:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | at 90% it's already pretty awful | Jan 26 04:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | but it's like compressing a gas. | Jan 26 04:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | no matter how hard you squeeze, you can't squeeze opposition to nothing. | Jan 26 04:15 |
| shreddar | I know there will be those that are thankful of the ReactOS project in the future. | Jan 26 04:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes, those whose data is locked behind Microsoft toll gate | Jan 26 04:15 |
| sebsebseb | oh for anyone that might read logs or whatever, when I put the The server versions of Windows are really better as a Desktop OS as well. I meant better than a Desktop version of Windows. | Jan 26 04:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | it may be their only chance to avoid some exorbitant penalty to have their own data again | Jan 26 04:16 |
| shreddar | More Like those that are use FreeDos or free Amiga clones. | Jan 26 04:16 |
| shreddar | There are still people who never left Win98 and even those still using 95. | Jan 26 04:17 |
| sebsebseb | yeah some people using unsupported versions of Windows online still | Jan 26 04:17 |
| shreddar | In the future wen Windows has stop being defacto there will still be those wanting to run some version for some program they have. | Jan 26 04:18 |
| shreddar | And they'll have free software to think for it. | Jan 26 04:19 |
| sebsebseb | shreddar: well Windows virtual machines, Wine, and ReactOS when it's ready enough | Jan 26 04:19 |
| sebsebseb | yeah free software goes back to the 70's? | Jan 26 04:20 |
| sebsebseb | so before Microsoft came along | Jan 26 04:20 |
| shreddar | Yeah well it's also a comfort to them to not just a API thing. (Like DOS users.) | Jan 26 04:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: much older | Jan 26 04:20 |
| DaemonFC | Avast is now piggybacking Google Chrome | Jan 26 04:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: google "IBM SHARE history" | Jan 26 04:21 |
| sebsebseb | Microsoft came along and messed computing, up or did it | Jan 26 04:21 |
| sebsebseb | hrm | Jan 26 04:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes | Jan 26 04:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: precisely | Jan 26 04:21 |
| sebsebseb | I mean if it wasn't Microsoft gaining most of the market | Jan 26 04:21 |
| sebsebseb | then Apple might of | Jan 26 04:21 |
| sebsebseb | and become like Microsoft | Jan 26 04:21 |
| sebsebseb | or IBM would have become like Microsoft | Jan 26 04:21 |
| sebsebseb | a lot of people are loyal to Windows or something, because that's the only OS they know, what they don't seem to reolize is if it wasn't Windows, it would have been something else, they would have been using isntead | Jan 26 04:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | clear and present danger. | Jan 26 04:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's not really an argument for tolerating microsoft. | Jan 26 04:22 |
| sebsebseb | Microsoft were ok untill like 2001/2003 ? now it's time to move on | Jan 26 04:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | they were never ok, actually | Jan 26 04:23 |
| sebsebseb | well they made some sort of interesting products, that then died | Jan 26 04:24 |
| FurnaceBoy | Gates is a megalomaniac, and the company is just a manifestation of his sociopathic drives | Jan 26 04:24 |
| sebsebseb | Encarta for example | Jan 26 04:24 |
| FurnaceBoy | they bought it. | Jan 26 04:25 |
| sebsebseb | oh? | Jan 26 04:25 |
| sebsebseb | hotmail is used by many and not that good, but that was bought from someone else as well | Jan 26 04:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | any decent technology they have, was bought, and then wrecked. Sybase -> SQL Server | Jan 26 04:25 |
| sebsebseb | DOS was bought from someone else if I remember correctly | Jan 26 04:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | Hotmail was founded by Sabeer Bhatia, yes. | Jan 26 04:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes, DOS was bought. It's also crappier than a 1975 shell. | Jan 26 04:25 |
| sebsebseb | well I don't know who that is | Jan 26 04:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: he's the guy who invented Hotmail. he sold for ~ $400 mil before the first bubble | Jan 26 04:26 |
| sebsebseb | the first bubble? | Jan 26 04:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | hm, oh wait, maybe i have an extra zero :D | Jan 26 04:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes, don't you remember the first big internet bubble? | Jan 26 04:26 |
| sebsebseb | I thought that's what you meant | Jan 26 04:26 |
| sebsebseb | I was going to put something | Jan 26 04:26 |
| sebsebseb | and no I don't exactly remember it, since I was a child | Jan 26 04:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes, reportedly $400 mil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabeer_Bhatia | Jan 26 04:27 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Sabeer Bhatia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 30.18 KB | Jan 26 04:27 |
| shreddar | Windows wasn't really bought though. It was copied. | Jan 26 04:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | well, his story is covered in Po Bronson's book "Nudist on the Night Shift". | Jan 26 04:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | at the time, Hotmail ran on FreeBSD. | Jan 26 04:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | they tried to move to NT and failed. | Jan 26 04:27 |
| sebsebseb | free software also goes back before Apple? | Jan 26 04:28 |
| sebsebseb | avarage computer users, don't really know the history of computing, and they don't really care, they just want to use a computer for their tasks and that's that | Jan 26 04:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: Free software goes back to the 1950s. | Jan 26 04:29 |
| sebsebseb | and things are going more mobile now days, so the desktop might not be that relivant in say 10 years time | Jan 26 04:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: 20+ years before Apple | Jan 26 04:29 |
| sebsebseb | and mobile phone companies and such are turning to Linux more | Jan 26 04:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: right, these trends hurt MS | Jan 26 04:29 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: indeed they do | Jan 26 04:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: since they are not credible as a server, and weak in mobile | Jan 26 04:30 |
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| *shreddar (i=4c16e5e1@gateway/web/freenode/x-ecfrdtgqtkseokwc) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 04:30 | |
| sebsebseb | and only really around today, since loads of people still rely on Windows and Microsoft Office, and are still buying it | Jan 26 04:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: only ignorance can explain it | Jan 26 04:31 |
| sebsebseb | the two big cash cows | Jan 26 04:31 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: what I just put, well yes | Jan 26 04:31 |
| sebsebseb | only ignorance can explain why loads of people still rely on Windows and Microsoft Office today | Jan 26 04:31 |
| sebsebseb | well and vender lock in, which is the result of the ignorance | Jan 26 04:31 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes, vicious circle | Jan 26 04:32 |
| FurnaceBoy | but it shall be broken :) | Jan 26 04:32 |
| sebsebseb | that and how companies just like loads of home users, want to use what they know | Jan 26 04:32 |
| sebsebseb | it's a bit risky for a company to suddenly deply Linux distro and Open Office for example, well unless they have some proper techs | Jan 26 04:32 |
| sebsebseb | and some people that can provide proper training for staff | Jan 26 04:32 |
| shreddar | Of of that is the problem of Intellectual Monopolys. | Jan 26 04:32 |
| sebsebseb | or other types of users for example, say in a educational establisment, so for students | Jan 26 04:33 |
| sebsebseb | ,but with education, there's this idea, that they should use what the companies are using | Jan 26 04:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/01/25/notes_of_interest_from_apples_q1_2010_conference_call.html | Jan 26 04:33 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: AppleInsider | Notes of interest from Apple's Q1 2010 conference call .::. Size~: 57.97 KB | Jan 26 04:33 |
| sebsebseb | and then companies will get students who only really know Microsoft, and so the circle goes round and round | Jan 26 04:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | "Mac sales in Italy, France, Switzerland and Spain all grew more than 40 percent. Australia up over 70 percent, China up almost 100 percent." | Jan 26 04:33 |
| sebsebseb | untill Ubuntu starts to gain a lot of proper market share for example, if that's ever going to happen, or ReactOS becomes ready for the mainstreame, and starts to really get known about or something | Jan 26 04:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: or business and home users get sick of wasting money | Jan 26 04:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: there's not so much cash to throw away any more | Jan 26 04:34 |
| sebsebseb | people like to follow what companies do, but I think if enough consumers start using Desktop Linux at home, some companies will as well | Jan 26 04:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: a lot of companies already quietly run Linux | Jan 26 04:34 |
| sebsebseb | well they do for servers sure | Jan 26 04:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: skunkworks .,, hidden statistics | Jan 26 04:34 |
| sebsebseb | ,but not the desktop | Jan 26 04:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes that too, but maybe less | Jan 26 04:34 |
| schestowitz | [04:00] <sebsebseb> schestowitz: plus they got Carla Shrodder (or however her name is spelt) the woman who did the Linux cook book or whatever it was | Jan 26 04:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | the benefits are clear, only inertia needs to be beaten | Jan 26 04:35 |
| schestowitz | Network cookbook | Jan 26 04:35 |
| sebsebseb | time are changing slowly anyway, but right now, I don't really want to work in IT, since I know I would have to work with Windows loads really | Jan 26 04:35 |
| schestowitz | [04:24] <FurnaceBoy> Gates is a megalomaniac, and the company is just a manifestation of his sociopathic drives | Jan 26 04:36 |
| schestowitz | Watch that film I posted about earlier | Jan 26 04:36 |
| schestowitz | Russian mafia | Jan 26 04:36 |
| schestowitz | They can't help it... it's all just about money | Jan 26 04:36 |
| sebsebseb | I used to want to be a professiaonl website coder, but then I found out about IE 6's horrible web standards support etc | Jan 26 04:36 |
| schestowitz | They don't care what crime | Jan 26 04:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: +1 | Jan 26 04:36 |
| schestowitz | See the part about "Tarzan" | Jan 26 04:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: it never stops | Jan 26 04:36 |
| schestowitz | These criminals walk away free | Jan 26 04:36 |
| schestowitz | Deported | Jan 26 04:36 |
| schestowitz | Amazing | Jan 26 04:36 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Brer Gates knows a lot about briar patches. | Jan 26 04:36 | |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: what's the name of the film? | Jan 26 04:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: I might rent the dvd | Jan 26 04:36 |
| schestowitz | Reminded me of Goldman Sachs and chums | Jan 26 04:37 |
| schestowitz | They are a different type of mafia | Jan 26 04:37 |
| schestowitz | They wear other consumes | Jan 26 04:37 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: computing is a fun hobby to have though | Jan 26 04:37 |
| schestowitz | Like bankster | Jan 26 04:37 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: babble on about it to geeks on Freenode every now and again | Jan 26 04:37 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: wait... | Jan 26 04:37 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: uhmmm Ubuntu support here and there, reading about Linux and such here and there | Jan 26 04:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1u2PrPqdUc | Jan 26 04:38 |
| schestowitz | Part 1 of 5/6 | Jan 26 04:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I've always been a coder | Jan 26 04:38 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: well I can do HTML, XHTML, and CSS, when there's something to make, I have tired to learn PHP and Python in the past, but gave up | Jan 26 04:38 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: I am more of a technical support person really | Jan 26 04:38 |
| sebsebseb | software side | Jan 26 04:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: well, takes all kinds :) | Jan 26 04:38 |
| sebsebseb | what was that? | Jan 26 04:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: technology is an area with a million possible specialties | Jan 26 04:39 |
| sebsebseb | sure, but the courses around here aren't good for it really | Jan 26 04:39 |
| sebsebseb | Microsoft this that and the other, well the low level ones | Jan 26 04:39 |
| *FurnaceBoy has considered teaching programming | Jan 26 04:39 | |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: where are you located | Jan 26 04:39 |
| sebsebseb | England | Jan 26 04:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | hm, not quite on my list of countries to emigrate to. | Jan 26 04:40 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: what's that meant to mean? | Jan 26 04:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | how's the cctv? (not to strike a cliche, but of real interest in this channel) | Jan 26 04:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: take it literally | Jan 26 04:40 |
| schestowitz |  | Jan 26 04:40 |
| schestowitz | [04:38] <FurnaceBoy> sebsebseb: I've always been a coder | Jan 26 04:40 |
| schestowitz | Somethign that Bill&Steve can't tell | Jan 26 04:40 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: CCTV yeah | Jan 26 04:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I have a list of countries I wouldn't mind emigrating too. England almost makes the cut. | Jan 26 04:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: cctv is really the deal breaker | Jan 26 04:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | to* | Jan 26 04:40 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: well it's their for security really, some think it's, because the NWO want to control us or whatever | Jan 26 04:40 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: see the video I showed you that claims to be from BBC2..... it touches on CCTV too | Jan 26 04:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: the rationalisations don't interest me. just the fact of it is unacceptable. | Jan 26 04:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: ditto Microsoft :D | Jan 26 04:41 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: uh your saying you want to move to England, because we have CCTV? | Jan 26 04:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | that's what so many ppl around here *cough* don't get. that principles matter. hehe | Jan 26 04:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's a deal breaker | Jan 26 04:41 |
| sebsebseb | oh deal braker | Jan 26 04:42 |
| sebsebseb | as in | Jan 26 04:42 |
| sebsebseb | yeah | Jan 26 04:42 |
| sebsebseb | you won't, because of it | Jan 26 04:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: otherwise it'd be pretty close. | Jan 26 04:42 |
| sebsebseb | well CCTV is better | Jan 26 04:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: nothing much against england, myself. like the place. | Jan 26 04:42 |
| sebsebseb | than having loads of guns all over the place | Jan 26 04:42 |
| sebsebseb | like USA | Jan 26 04:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes probably, but NEITHER is an acceptable situation. | Jan 26 04:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | (to me) | Jan 26 04:42 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC rubs them like a lamp | Jan 26 04:42 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: also they need to keep an eye on schestowitz he might get up to something naughtey :D | Jan 26 04:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: masturbation analogies are pretty accurate in this respect | Jan 26 04:43 |
| schestowitz | Not necessarily | Jan 26 04:43 |
| shreddar | I'd rather have mandatory GPS implants than CCTV. I look terrible on grainy black and white tv's. | Jan 26 04:43 |
| schestowitz | Lamp as in the story | Jan 26 04:43 |
| schestowitz | The Persian stories | Jan 26 04:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: oh, his fantasies are masturbatory. he loves to take his adrenalin trips | Jan 26 04:43 |
| schestowitz | Magic lamp | Jan 26 04:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: shooting baddies | Jan 26 04:43 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: I think CCTV in a lot of public places, is better than GPS on people so they know where we are all the time | Jan 26 04:44 |
| schestowitz | This was warped by all sort of cartoon pornographers, I guess | Jan 26 04:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: he's Dirty Harry. they're the scum. | Jan 26 04:44 |
| sebsebseb | people want privacy as well | Jan 26 04:44 |
| schestowitz | Rubbing a lamp is just... rubbing a lamp | Jan 26 04:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: why do you keep producing these false dichotomies? | Jan 26 04:44 |
| sebsebseb | and we have it, when not being filmed by CCTV | Jan 26 04:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's not a choice of Evil A or Evil B. | Jan 26 04:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's that you should not accept EITHER. | Jan 26 04:44 |
| schestowitz | [04:43] <sebsebseb> FurnaceBoy: also they need to keep an eye on schestowitz he might get up to something naughtey :D | Jan 26 04:45 |
| shreddar | But if you had to chose... | Jan 26 04:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | shreddar: we don't. | Jan 26 04:45 |
| schestowitz | If someone mugs me, the camera will save me | Jan 26 04:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: HAHAHAHAH | Jan 26 04:45 |
| shreddar | But if you had to chose... | Jan 26 04:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: if DaemonFC doesn't SAVE you first. | Jan 26 04:45 |
| shreddar | choose | Jan 26 04:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: "oops, I missed, sorry Roy." | Jan 26 04:45 |
| sebsebseb | a public place is a public place, I don't choice if there are going to be cameras there or not, I can just expect it in shops for example | Jan 26 04:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | shreddar: pointless | Jan 26 04:45 |
| sebsebseb | as for the streets, there will probably be a warning sign | Jan 26 04:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I would not accept it. | Jan 26 04:45 |
| schestowitz | Those cameras only take AWAY actual armed cops from some scenes of potential crimes | Jan 26 04:45 |
| sebsebseb | where they have cameras | Jan 26 04:45 |
| sebsebseb | there are also cameras in the USA in shops | Jan 26 04:45 |
| sebsebseb | stores as you would say | Jan 26 04:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: maybe there are. I could care less. | Jan 26 04:46 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: to secure the snacks | Jan 26 04:46 |
| schestowitz | Not to secure people | Jan 26 04:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: DONUT WATCH | Jan 26 04:46 |
| *FurnaceBoy has to go make dinner | Jan 26 04:46 | |
| *FurnaceBoy (n=FurnaceB@bas1-toronto10-1279398804.dsl.bell.ca) has left #boycottnovell ("WeeChat 0.2.6.1") | Jan 26 04:46 | |
| schestowitz | "Hey you!! Stop! Bring back the bread! | Jan 26 04:46 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: surely mainly to secure the products, stop stealing, but if there was a serious crime in the shop, it would have that as well | Jan 26 04:46 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: uh why I did I type in surely, I didn't want to do that | Jan 26 04:46 |
| schestowitz | I'm in favour of plastic cams | Jan 26 04:47 |
| schestowitz | Obviously they are there to deter | Jan 26 04:47 |
| schestowitz | Let's just make plastic fake ones, it's cheaper | Jan 26 04:47 |
| schestowitz | ANd hide real ones in just 5% of cases | Jan 26 04:47 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: camera's are there since the police can't be nearly everywhere, and can't really pay to have security guards nearly everywhere as well | Jan 26 04:47 |
| schestowitz | "You'd never know...... this camera COULD be a real one !!!" | Jan 26 04:47 |
| schestowitz | It's like with nukes | Jan 26 04:48 |
| schestowitz | And unclear 'defence' system | Jan 26 04:48 |
| schestowitz | Total bunk | Jan 26 04:48 |
| sebsebseb | anyway FurnaceBoy left | Jan 26 04:48 |
| schestowitz | One could shoot 10,000 rockets, 9,990 of which are hollow... like fireworks | Jan 26 04:48 |
| schestowitz | Good luck shooting down the 10 that are nuclear | Jan 26 04:48 |
| sebsebseb | I guess people tend to accept what they are used to, in ther country, but not always | Jan 26 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | Sure I'd save schestowitz, but only if he agreed to tell the court that the mugger was "coming right for us!!!! ahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!" | Jan 26 04:49 |
| sebsebseb | and if they think whatever it is, is there to protect them, then they tend to accept it yes | Jan 26 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | Jan 26 04:49 |
| shreddar | http://davies.lohudblogs.com/files/2010/01/0122davies.jpg | Jan 26 04:50 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 26 04:50 |
| *shreddar has quit () | Jan 26 04:58 | |
| DaemonFC | "If you just scrub that toilet a little bit harder, you'll be an entrepreneur in the opportunity-based society and one day smoke cigars on the country club golf course with Rush Limbaugh," I can hear the hired PR guns say. | Jan 26 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | -from Wayne Besan's weekly newsletter :) | Jan 26 05:14 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LinuxTag Organised for 2010 http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/11850.html | Jan 26 05:16 | |
| DaemonFC | "Appealing to a higher power gives the powerless a false sense of security. They feel like God is looking out for them and opportunity is just around the corner - even if those potential jobs are permanently shipped overseas and the earnings placed in offshore tax shelters." | Jan 26 05:17 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #School in New Zealand Dumps Windows, Moves to #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/kok8 http://ur1.ca/koka | Jan 26 05:18 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: NZ school ditches Microsoft and goes totally open source - education, Linux, linux.conf.au, Microsoft - CIO .::. Size~: 118.61 KB | Jan 26 05:18 |
| *Ender2070 (n=Ender207@bas1-toronto12-1128685401.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 05:18 | |
| Ender2070 | hey | Jan 26 05:19 |
| Ender2070 | anyone in the us know when public domain starts for old stuff? | Jan 26 05:19 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] London Stock Exchange Praises #GNU #Linux in a New Press Release http://ur1.ca/kokc #lse | Jan 26 05:19 | |
| Ender2070 | in canada its anything before 1937 | Jan 26 05:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain#United_States_law | Jan 26 05:20 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Public domain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 127.71 KB | Jan 26 05:20 |
| DaemonFC | 120 years after publication apparently | Jan 26 05:20 |
| Ender2070 | unless published before 1923 | Jan 26 05:21 |
| DaemonFC | "A work that is created (i.e. fixed in tangible form for the first time) after January 1, 1978, is automatically protected from the moment of its creation and is given a term lasting for the author’s life, plus an additional 70 years after the author’s death" | Jan 26 05:21 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at #GRUB 2 and #QEMU 0.13 for #Linux http://ur1.ca/kokg http://ur1.ca/kokh | Jan 26 05:21 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] New GRUB2 Build Brings Official Release Closer .::. Size~: 15.36 KB | Jan 26 05:21 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] QEMU 0.13 To Focus On New Features .::. Size~: 15.53 KB | Jan 26 05:21 |
| Ender2070 | The claim that "pre-1923 works are in the public domain" is correct only for published works; unpublished works are under federal copyright for at least the life of the author plus 70 years. | Jan 26 05:22 |
| Ender2070 | I would have to host Brave New World on a canadian server | Jan 26 05:22 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Performance Comparison of #Linux , #BSD , and #OpenSolaris (Linux Wins) http://ur1.ca/kokp | Jan 26 05:23 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] Fedora, Debian, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, OpenSolaris Benchmarks .::. Size~: 19.82 KB | Jan 26 05:23 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the industry has bought las that give them exclusive control on everything effectively forever | Jan 26 05:23 |
| DaemonFC | most music made in my lifetime won't be public domain until decades after I die of old age | Jan 26 05:24 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux #Graphics Stack Has Important New Addition http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzkxOQ | Jan 26 05:24 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] ATI R600/R700 Gallium3D Winsys Published .::. Size~: 16.61 KB | Jan 26 05:24 |
| Ender2070 | Canada has 50 years after authors death too | Jan 26 05:25 |
| Ender2070 | but anything published before 1937 is public domain, we got the law a little later than you guys | Jan 26 05:26 |
| Ender2070 | Aldous Huxley (Brave New World - 1932) | Jan 26 05:26 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many More #Games on Their Way to #GNU #Linux Thanks to Engine Port http://ur1.ca/koku | Jan 26 05:26 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Linux Gaming News » Blog Archive » Fishing Cactus Are porting Their Mojito Engine To GNU/Linux ! .::. Size~: 31.07 KB | Jan 26 05:26 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Featureful #GNU #Linux is Coming to #PlayStation 3 http://ur1.ca/kol1 http://ur1.ca/kol2 http://ur1.ca/kkq4 | Jan 26 05:28 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Why not just scrap prorogation? Good bloody question. http://bit.ly/5dXA1C #canada | Jan 26 05:28 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Once impenetrable PS3 cracked wide open • The Register .::. Size~: 23.12 KB | Jan 26 05:28 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC News - PlayStation 3 'hacked' by iPhone cracker .::. Size~: 57.15 KB | Jan 26 05:28 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: On the PlayStation 3: Hello hypervisor, I'm geohot .::. Size~: 298.95 KB | Jan 26 05:28 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Prorogation should be deleted | Greg Weston | Columnists | News | Toronto Sun .::. Size~: 70.48 KB | Jan 26 05:28 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Next Version of #KDE Another Step Closer http://ur1.ca/kol3 http://ur1.ca/kol4 | Jan 26 05:30 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: KDE - Software Compilation 4.4 RC2 Release Announcement .::. Size~: 17.9 KB | Jan 26 05:30 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: KDE vs. GNOME: Configuration and Admin Tools — Datamation.com .::. Size~: 67.52 KB | Jan 26 05:30 |
| sebsebseb | seems to be a lot of people out there who think Ubuntu 9.10 was meant to properly compete against Windows 7, that was never the case | Jan 26 05:31 |
| sebsebseb | it was never meant to properly compete against Windows 7 | Jan 26 05:31 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Review of #Hymera #GN #Linux http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20100125#feature | Jan 26 05:31 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mandriva 's Great Feature Revealed http://brunocornec.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/auto_inst-the-best-kept-mandrivas-secret/ | Jan 26 05:31 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD. .::. Size~: 119.22 KB | Jan 26 05:31 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: auto_inst: the best kept Mandrivas secret ? « Bruno Cornecs Blog .::. Size~: 21.08 KB | Jan 26 05:31 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu Software Management Gets More Features http://ur1.ca/kolk http://ur1.ca/koll | Jan 26 05:41 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu Software Centre Gets Star Ratings & Reviews | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 108.43 KB | Jan 26 05:41 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Launches New Site Based on #FreeSoftware ( #Drupal ) http://ur1.ca/kolr http://ur1.ca/kols | Jan 26 05:43 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Red Hat launches opensource.com community site - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 29.9 KB | Jan 26 05:43 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: OpenSource.com launches on Drupal | Dries Buytaert .::. Size~: 13.18 KB | Jan 26 05:43 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look #Lubuntu #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/kolv http://ur1.ca/kolw | Jan 26 05:44 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lubuntu Lucid Lynx Alpha 2 Has Been Released! ~ Web Upd8 .::. Size~: 141.22 KB | Jan 26 05:44 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lubuntu Alpha 2 Released; Gets New Bootsplash, Artwork, File Manager | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 105.48 KB | Jan 26 05:44 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Canonical / #Ubuntu Ports Software to #Windows http://ur1.ca/kom1 http://ur1.ca/kom2 | Jan 26 05:46 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: UbuntuOne Being Ported To Windows | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 106.45 KB | Jan 26 05:46 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Windows set for Ubuntu cloud storage? | IT PRO .::. Size~: 38.11 KB | Jan 26 05:46 |
| jono | schestowitz your tweets are awesome :) | Jan 26 05:47 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Is Ebert a good film critic, or is he just a brand - like so many actors and directors? #rhetoricalquestion | Jan 26 05:47 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux (Android) Phones Are Going to Rule the #Mobile Market http://ur1.ca/komf http://ur1.ca/komg | Jan 26 05:55 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Android Tops iPhone In Mobile Trends Report | WebProNews .::. Size~: 32.85 KB | Jan 26 05:55 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Android will soon trail only Symbian, says IDC - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 66.22 KB | Jan 26 05:55 |
| DaemonFC | jono: How long before Monobuntu 10.04 LTS is done? :) | Jan 26 05:59 |
| jono | DaemonFC, nearly there :) | Jan 26 06:00 |
| jono | it also comes with Adobe Air installed by default too :) | Jan 26 06:00 |
| jono | its going to be great :) | Jan 26 06:00 |
| jono | DaemonFC, I didnt realize you had heard of Monobuntu? | Jan 26 06:01 |
| DaemonFC | oh god, is there such a thing? | Jan 26 06:02 |
| jono | DaemonFC, you haven't heard of it? | Jan 26 06:02 |
| DaemonFC | I was referring to the Mono creep | Jan 26 06:02 |
| jono | its pretty sweet | Jan 26 06:02 |
| jono | its an official derivative that focuses on building a rocking Mono and Adobe AIR based distro | Jan 26 06:02 |
| DaemonFC | "Our users are too stupid to figure out Gimp, lets give them something that is limited to red eye reduction" | Jan 26 06:03 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Jan 26 06:03 |
| jono | DaemonFC, do you even understand why we made the decision around the gimp? | Jan 26 06:03 |
| jono | and no, there is no Monobuntu | Jan 26 06:04 |
| jono | :) | Jan 26 06:04 |
| DaemonFC | then there was another silly argument I saw in the chatter that makes the case for Banshee by default because it supports your iPod (enough to corrupt the internal database, and Rhythmbox can do that too) | Jan 26 06:04 |
| jono | DaemonFC, there are lots of things people want by default | Jan 26 06:05 |
| DaemonFC | the ipod starts sorting every song under Unknown Artists | Jan 26 06:05 |
| jono | and there is a reason why we have a comprehensive process | Jan 26 06:05 |
| DaemonFC | if that's what you call compatible, then look out | Jan 26 06:05 |
| jono | Banshee is a great music player, but it has problems | Jan 26 06:05 |
| jono | brb | Jan 26 06:05 |
| DaemonFC | jono: There's feature creep and then the "lets take this away because some people are confused" | Jan 26 06:06 |
| DaemonFC | it's like saying an Aborigine tribe may not understand silverware, so lets take them away from people that do | Jan 26 06:06 |
| DaemonFC | it makes no sense to remove features that are useful to most people and are benign to the rest | Jan 26 06:07 |
| DaemonFC | if you need room on the CD, toss Mono overboard | Jan 26 06:07 |
| DaemonFC | that's a rather large runtime to run a few trivial unimportant things that have suitable replacements anyway | Jan 26 06:08 |
| Ender2070 | amarok is better | Jan 26 06:08 |
| DaemonFC | And *is* Banshee more functional? I would argue that it's not | Jan 26 06:08 |
| DaemonFC | Banshee won't let you listen to last.fm if you're a free user | Jan 26 06:08 |
| DaemonFC | Rhythmbox is exempt from this requirement, per last.fm | Jan 26 06:09 |
| DaemonFC | so I would have to subscribe to last.fm for $3 a month to get substantially the same thing I was using before they made that rule | Jan 26 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | if I was to use Banshee | Jan 26 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | it's only $3 a month I agree, but it's $3 a month that Rhythmbox doesn't make me pay | Jan 26 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | Ender2070: I was wondering why Amarok didn't apply for a similar exemption | Jan 26 06:11 |
| DaemonFC | or Banshee for that matter | Jan 26 06:11 |
| DaemonFC | they'll grant an exemption for any FOSS not for profit music player | Jan 26 06:11 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Melamine-laced milk products still sold after deaths, 300K kids ill in 2008: back to business as usual in #China http://bit.ly/7s9V6P #greed | Jan 26 06:28 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@jdub How do people become such gigantic, thick-headed asshats? An anti Halal Vegemite petition // it's a racist nation | Jan 26 06:29 | |
| *FurnaceBoy (n=FurnaceB@bas1-toronto10-1279398804.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 06:31 | |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft uses what I like to call the cat-with-laser approach to security | Jan 26 06:32 |
| DaemonFC | when you ask Microsoft why their products are not secure, they shine a laser pointer on the wall | Jan 26 06:32 |
| DaemonFC | and you, the cat, go chase it and feel like you're accomplishing something, and then you take a nap | Jan 26 06:32 |
| DaemonFC | or rather, the "tech journalists" do | Jan 26 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | the "journalists" seem to be infinitely forgiving with Microsoft no matter how many times and how often Windows springs leaks | Jan 26 06:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | http://www.flickr.com/photos/natesmobile/4037069839/ <-- waiting for mah free copee of Win 7 | Jan 26 06:33 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: tilted carl on Flickr - Photo Sharing! .::. Size~: 48.13 KB | Jan 26 06:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: of course. you seem surprised. | Jan 26 06:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Microsoft is the ringmaster in a great circus... | Jan 26 06:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: and the hilarious part is, it's not really about technology at all | Jan 26 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | BetaNews will mod you down if you criticize anything Microsoft | Jan 26 06:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | technical discussion is the oil they put on the road to throw off pursuit | Jan 26 06:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | the geeks start chasing it, like your cat | Jan 26 06:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | crime is all about managing distraction | Jan 26 06:35 |
| DaemonFC | Technical discussion is like 10 articles of omgwtfbbq .NET is great!!!!! | Jan 26 06:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | you can do whatever you want as long as people are looking in some other direction | Jan 26 06:36 |
| DaemonFC | followed by "Ho-hum, Patch Tuesday, 57 security holes plugged. Same time next month." | Jan 26 06:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | let me say that again/ crime is all about achieving MISDIRECTION | Jan 26 06:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's analogous to shock doctrine. Invade on pretext of giving earthquake aid. etc. | Jan 26 06:36 |
| DaemonFC | I don't get how anything FOSS or not springs this damned many leaks | Jan 26 06:36 |
| DaemonFC | are they really that sloppy? | Jan 26 06:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes, and you're missing a couple of points | Jan 26 06:37 |
| FurnaceBoy | 1) the market does not punish MS incompetence (see: monopoly) | Jan 26 06:37 |
| DaemonFC | you'd think there would be a limit as to how many thousands of times they'd have to patch IE alone | Jan 26 06:37 |
| DaemonFC | much less all else | Jan 26 06:37 |
| FurnaceBoy | 2) it's never really been about the technology (see: monopoly) | Jan 26 06:37 |
| FurnaceBoy | they don't HAVE to be good. | Jan 26 06:37 |
| FurnaceBoy | they get paid anyway, with every PC you buy. | Jan 26 06:37 |
| FurnaceBoy | they're completely disconnected from the market | Jan 26 06:37 |
| DaemonFC | no, I want to know how the hell IE 6 for example, can still have so many security holes when the damned thing has been patched every month for the last 9 years | Jan 26 06:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | this is why i laugh so hard when free market wonks point to them as the epitome of success. | Jan 26 06:38 |
| DaemonFC | it hasn't been actively developed, just patched | Jan 26 06:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: "40,000 developers" | Jan 26 06:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: every open source browser is 100% or close to 100% compliant. | Jan 26 06:39 |
| DaemonFC | the thing shipped when I was 17, I will be 26 in a few months | Jan 26 06:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | Why? Because they wouldn't be accepted if they fell short. | Jan 26 06:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | IE lands on your desk whether you want it or not. | Jan 26 06:39 |
| DaemonFC | and they're still patching it like crazy every month | Jan 26 06:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | whether it's 13% or 22% compliant. | Jan 26 06:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | whether it has 1,000 exploits or 4,000 | Jan 26 06:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | doesn't matter. | Jan 26 06:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | you get it anyway. | Jan 26 06:39 |
| DaemonFC | well, to make things worse, they hid some of the patches in Windows service packs | Jan 26 06:40 |
| DaemonFC | so there's no telling | Jan 26 06:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | well, would you show your anal warts on a first date? | Jan 26 06:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | just accept that Microsoft does not compete. it's not in their DNA. | Jan 26 06:41 |
| DaemonFC | http://secunia.com/advisories/product/11/ | Jan 26 06:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | they only know how to operate as a monopoly with lock-in. they only have strategies that involve lock-in. that's it. accept it | Jan 26 06:41 |
| DaemonFC | 23 unpatched out of 184 total | Jan 26 06:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | engineering is just a sideshow. They do *just enough* of that to get by | Jan 26 06:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | of course it's not of direct interest, it's only a distraction. if they can ignore a problem, they will (like the vulnerability that felled Google) | Jan 26 06:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | this is the opposite of open source, where you live or die quite strictly on the tech. | Jan 26 06:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | Adobe is the same. they ignore all kinds of problems, because THEY CAN.. because Photoshop, etc, monopolise the market. | Jan 26 06:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | used to drive me crazy when I used their stuff every day. | Jan 26 06:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: quality *costs*. it cuts into profit. | Jan 26 06:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: so why would you even go there? | Jan 26 06:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: see: CHINA | Jan 26 06:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | the "free market" theory is a race to the bottom. as we see proven daily. | Jan 26 06:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | and once you get a monopoly, market effects are turned off. That was Gates' crowning achievement. | Jan 26 06:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | now we have to help them climb down and restore our dignity as a civilisation. | Jan 26 06:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | (though, visions of toppling statues with tanks are forgivable at this point) | Jan 26 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | IE is an example of why build with steel when you can use plastic | Jan 26 06:48 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes. | Jan 26 06:48 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 26 06:48 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's not build to last. | Jan 26 06:48 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's a bullet point. | Jan 26 06:48 |
| FurnaceBoy | its purpose is not to be good tech. Its purpose is to FURTHER THE LOCK-IN. | Jan 26 06:48 |
| FurnaceBoy | And the same is true for EVERY product Microsoft makes or will make. | Jan 26 06:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | now do you see why they are bad quality??? | Jan 26 06:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | there's no surprise here once you figure out what they really do. | Jan 26 06:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | sorry to repeat myself. They don't get paid for being any good. They like it that they get paid no matter what, and that's the system they set up, and want to perpetuate. We don't have to play along. | Jan 26 06:50 |
| DaemonFC | no uninstaller = It's part of Windows, live with it | Jan 26 06:50 |
| DaemonFC | even if you never use it, it can still let malware in | Jan 26 06:50 |
| FurnaceBoy | right, because uninstalling IE goes against the narrative. | Jan 26 06:50 |
| FurnaceBoy | goes against its purpose. | Jan 26 06:51 |
| FurnaceBoy | (real purpose. not its apparent purpose) | Jan 26 06:51 |
| DaemonFC | I noticed on Windows Server, you can't "uninstall IE" like you can in Windows 7 | Jan 26 06:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | anyway, their strategy is self-defeating. it's a leaky boat. it's just so darn slow to sink... | Jan 26 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | browsing around on a server using IE seems like a very bad idea | Jan 26 06:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: because consumers are more sensitive to it | Jan 26 06:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: runnign Windows on a server is suicidal. IE or not. | Jan 26 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | yet the administrator can't turn it off | Jan 26 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | it has the "high security pack" enabled by default | Jan 26 06:53 |
| DaemonFC | with that on, IE won't even allow you to view most sites | Jan 26 06:53 |
| FurnaceBoy | false peace of mind | Jan 26 06:53 |
| FurnaceBoy | "What about security?" "We have the High Security Pack!" "Oh, OK. Here's your check." | Jan 26 06:54 |
| DaemonFC | it was hell trying to figure out how to turn that off so I could download Firefox | Jan 26 06:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's supposed to be hard to install Firefox or any 3rd party browser. | Jan 26 06:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | I've had the same experience. | Jan 26 06:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | they deliberately make it a tangled maze of things you have to enable and disable. | Jan 26 06:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's very deliberate | Jan 26 06:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's not difficult on Windows, just Windows Server | Jan 26 06:55 |
| DaemonFC | cause of that damned "security pack" | Jan 26 06:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's a maze on Windows as well. | Jan 26 06:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | a fresh XP install. | Jan 26 06:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | you have to do about 8 things before it will install. | Jan 26 06:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | and this is intentional | Jan 26 06:55 |
| DaemonFC | download it and double click? | Jan 26 06:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | no. | Jan 26 06:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | far from it. | Jan 26 06:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | you have all kinds of security warnings to click through | Jan 26 06:55 |
| DaemonFC | oh that "This file isn't signed" crap | Jan 26 06:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's not just one | Jan 26 06:56 |
| DaemonFC | that's been there since XP SP2 | Jan 26 06:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | seriously, there are a surprising number of steps, and it's all carefully planned to be difficult and to make the user think they are doing something unsafe. | Jan 26 06:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | every time they can discourage, a % give up | Jan 26 06:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | see? | Jan 26 06:56 |
| DaemonFC | it's a nuisance to run anything you download | Jan 26 06:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | nite | Jan 26 07:03 |
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| Ender2070 | <DaemonFC> Ender2070: I was wondering why Amarok didn't apply for a similar exemption | Jan 26 09:30 |
| Ender2070 | not sure but amarok's dependancies are smaller than mono's | Jan 26 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | Rhythmbox is the only non-last.fm client I've seen that can still log in without you paying them money | Jan 26 09:31 |
| Ender2070 | ? | Jan 26 09:32 |
| Ender2070 | i dont understand the hype of last.fm | Jan 26 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | last.fm changed their terms of use and enforce it with an "API key" | Jan 26 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | but they make exceptions for FOSS music players that are not for profit | Jan 26 09:32 |
| Ender2070 | they probably share your personality profile with people too | Jan 26 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | so Rhythmbox has this API key and the rest don't | Jan 26 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | it's not like they have your name and address | Jan 26 09:33 |
| Ender2070 | your ip is just as good | Jan 26 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | the information would only be useful in aggregate | Jan 26 09:33 |
| DaemonFC | it's like putting down that your name is Seymour Butts and you live at 123 Fake St, on your grocery store's discount card application | Jan 26 09:34 |
| DaemonFC | I don't ever put my real name and address on that shit | Jan 26 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | they'd spam me or sell my information and buying habits to people who would | Jan 26 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | and you just gave the FBI one more thing they can get a warrant for (not that I care if they know I eat potato chips) | Jan 26 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | but say someone's house burns down | Jan 26 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | it's well known you have a grudge against them, and your shopper's card says you bought fire logs the day before | Jan 26 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | I've learned that the less shit the government can subpoena about you, the less wrong accusations they can make | Jan 26 09:38 |
| Ender2070 | if you do nothing wrong you're right | Jan 26 09:38 |
| Ender2070 | however, if you do something else with your IP that does link you to your address | Jan 26 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | it happens all the time that the feds go out and accuse someone who did nothing wrong | Jan 26 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | put them in a world of shit | Jan 26 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | they even investigated Eminem for singing about dead presidents (money, obviously) | Jan 26 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | why would you trust them to do anything sane? | Jan 26 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | freeze your bank accounts, get you in trouble and fired from work | Jan 26 09:40 |
| Ender2070 | lol | Jan 26 09:40 |
| DaemonFC | put you in prison for 50 years with no evidence and one witness who was drunk at the time | Jan 26 09:40 |
| Ender2070 | employers search facebook these days for their employees or applicants | Jan 26 09:41 |
| DaemonFC | oh yeah, you know they do | Jan 26 09:41 |
| Ender2070 | governments have used facebook photos to take people off of social assistance programs too | Jan 26 09:41 |
| DaemonFC | there's all kinds of reasons that they have for not calling you back and you'd never have thought about it | Jan 26 09:41 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, wasn't that in Canada? | Jan 26 09:42 |
| DaemonFC | insurance said she was smiling so she wasn't depressed | Jan 26 09:42 |
| DaemonFC | you're depressed and therefore totally incapable of smiling for 3 seconds | Jan 26 09:42 |
| DaemonFC | long enough to be in a photo | Jan 26 09:43 |
| DaemonFC | almost anyone can force themselves to smile in a picture | Jan 26 09:43 |
| DaemonFC | oesn't mean they're happy | Jan 26 09:43 |
| DaemonFC | *doesn't | Jan 26 09:43 |
| Ender2070 | lol | Jan 26 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | I really would hope that their excuse to stop paying her doesn't hold up in court | Jan 26 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | Ender2070: Obviously you deserve to lose your public assistance if you are stupid enough to get on Facebook and talk about all the money you have | Jan 26 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | "Why thank you for telling us, now we don't have to work to find that out!" | Jan 26 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | or better yet, get on there with a joint hanging out of your mouth with marijuana leaf gifs flashing on the border of the page, with sparkly "420 4 LIFE!!!!!" all over | Jan 26 09:47 |
| DaemonFC | and see how long you're on Section 8 housing and food stamps | Jan 26 09:47 |
| DaemonFC | Ender2070: I don't have sympathy for people that get on there and tell on themselves | Jan 26 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | people volunteer all kinds of personal info on those sites that they'd never tell a random person | Jan 26 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | Ender2070: A CNA that works at the nursing home my mom does took a picture of their new medicine cart | Jan 26 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | posted it on Facebook | Jan 26 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | captioned it "Where we keep the bodies" | Jan 26 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | and was fired the next day | Jan 26 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | 8-) | Jan 26 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | if I was the boss, or law enforcement, or whatever, I would definitely kick back and let the people I was watching do my job for me | Jan 26 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | it makes perfect sense | Jan 26 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | looking through my comments | Jan 26 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | spam, spam, spam, Russian viagra spam | Jan 26 09:59 |
| DaemonFC | buy cheap DVDs | Jan 26 09:59 |
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| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Blogs | Quassel IRC .::. Size~: 26.83 KB | Jan 26 11:20 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] The crime that brought @BillGates to where he is now. http://tinyurl.com/yd3z8uo | Jan 26 11:30 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Gary Kildal - The man who could have become Bill Gates. | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 97.68 KB | Jan 26 11:30 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.berkeleylug.com/?p=441 Yep they got gimp out of ubuntu here is the next wave. | Jan 26 12:16 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Berkeley Linux Users Group » Blog Archive » Banshee and Android Rock Together . . . Or Why Ubuntu Should Drop Rhythmbox .::. Size~: 30.62 KB | Jan 26 12:16 |
| Eruaran | I wonder where Ubuntu is heading | Jan 26 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully 2011 all this .net stuff will expode and we will see end of problem. | Jan 26 12:21 |
| Eruaran | I hope so | Jan 26 12:21 |
| Eruaran | What are the thinking | Jan 26 12:22 |
| Eruaran | *they | Jan 26 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu does a lot of strong arming the open source world. | Jan 26 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Like shipping with unstable parts like grub2 in the idea that some how more people using it will get it ready sooner. | Jan 26 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Same with kicking gimp out some how that will make developers address issues faster. | Jan 26 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Ie basically things don't work taht way. | Jan 26 12:23 |
| Eruaran | A friend was telling me only today how much he likes the GIMP | Jan 26 12:24 |
| Eruaran | Neither of us have ever been fans of Photoshop | Jan 26 12:24 |
| Eruaran | GIMP is getting its big refactoring this year, it sounds very positive | Jan 26 12:26 |
| oiaohm | It will take until end of year before the refactor is complete Eruaran | Jan 26 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Or the start of next year. | Jan 26 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Huge little project doing refactors. | Jan 26 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Blender interface refactor is going to take until the middle of this year. | Jan 26 12:31 |
| Eruaran | Yes, I'm just registering my optimism. | Jan 26 12:32 |
| oiaohm | I have used the development tree gimp. | Jan 26 12:33 |
| oiaohm | It is good. | Jan 26 12:33 |
| *schestowitz <3 GIMP | Jan 26 12:33 | |
| oiaohm | Same with the development tree blender. | Jan 26 12:33 |
| Eruaran | I wasn't aware that Blender was as well | Jan 26 12:33 |
| Eruaran | Sounds good | Jan 26 12:33 |
| oiaohm | I do find development tree blender far nicer. | Jan 26 12:33 |
| oiaohm | Blender has there first alpha of the new interface out. | Jan 26 12:34 |
| *schestowitz former user of Photoshop and Paintshop (going back to teenage years) | Jan 26 12:34 | |
| Eruaran | Hi schestowitz | Jan 26 12:34 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Jan 26 12:34 |
| oiaohm | Blender new version you can change interface on fly Eruaran | Jan 26 12:34 |
| Eruaran | I used to use Paintshop Pro all those years ago | Jan 26 12:34 |
| oiaohm | And I really do mean change interface on fly. | Jan 26 12:34 |
| oiaohm | You edit the source code to the python driven gui parts of wine. As you are editing the code the changes in interface are apearing. | Jan 26 12:35 |
| oiaohm | opps wine/blender | Jan 26 12:35 |
| Eruaran | what the | Jan 26 12:35 |
| Eruaran | that sounds crazy good | Jan 26 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Change key maps on fly as well. | Jan 26 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Recordable macros something blenders never had. | Jan 26 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Threaded back end for processing so gui of blender never is useable. | Jan 26 12:37 |
| oiaohm | editing models in blender while amination is going on with the model. | Jan 26 12:37 |
| oiaohm | You are talking a tool that has jumped from the 1980~s of interface to something so modern its insane. With blender Eruaran | Jan 26 12:38 |
| Eruaran | :D | Jan 26 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Yet when they get all this complete there is already a new list of features to start on. | Jan 26 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Generated 3d sound from 3d worlds is currently in development. And augmented releatity as well. That is for the blenders after what they are working on. | Jan 26 12:40 |
| oiaohm | Blender could end up a nice video editor even if you don't want to use the 3d part. | Jan 26 12:40 |
| Eruaran | wow | Jan 26 12:42 |
| Eruaran | like a complete suite | Jan 26 12:42 |
| Eruaran | do it all with blender | Jan 26 12:42 |
| oiaohm | blender is basically a complete suite for 3d amination all bar sound at moment. | Jan 26 12:43 |
| oiaohm | Including cutting the final movie.. | Jan 26 12:43 |
| oiaohm | You can even paint you models in blender. | Jan 26 12:43 |
| Eruaran | I didn't know that | Jan 26 12:44 |
| Eruaran | I have a friend who uses Blender | Jan 26 12:44 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Publisher Discovers That Removing #DRM Leads to Double the Sales http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/22/oreilly-drops-ebook.html | Jan 26 12:44 | |
| Eruaran | I've never done more than the most basic poking about with it | Jan 26 12:44 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: O'Reilly drops ebook DRM, sees 104% increase in sales Boing Boing .::. Size~: 115.43 KB | Jan 26 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Remember blenders non development interfaces was mostly designed back in the 1980~s | Jan 26 12:45 |
| oiaohm | So short cuts used are completelly alien to current day short cuts Eruaran | Jan 26 12:45 |
| oiaohm | So cntl-v does not equal paste it equals something completely different. | Jan 26 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Ie the biggest problem with blender has not been what it can do. But it pure alien interface to current day. | Jan 26 12:47 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Fights Against Patent Tax on Web Video http://ur1.ca/kpah http://ur1.ca/kpai http://ur1.ca/kpaj | Jan 26 12:47 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Mozilla defends Firefox's HTML5 support for only Ogg Theora video - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 33.93 KB | Jan 26 12:47 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Mozilla buries heels on un-YouTube open video • The Register .::. Size~: 24.29 KB | Jan 26 12:47 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Mozilla takes on YouTube video choice | Deep Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 61.37 KB | Jan 26 12:47 |
| Eruaran | I'm a total noob with Blender, so all this impresses the hell out of me | Jan 26 12:49 |
| oiaohm | I am looking forward to when linking in multi of the same model can be done and have each model doing a different animation in the same seen in blender. | Jan 26 12:50 |
| oiaohm | Basically blender is going to become more usable in so many ways. | Jan 26 12:51 |
| kecskebak | So is The GIMP - just as Bait'n'Switch GNU/Linux has dropped it. | Jan 26 12:51 |
| oiaohm | GIMP is not magically going to disappear because some distribution don't ship it. | Jan 26 12:53 |
| kecskebak | No, I have a feeling it'll be back. | Jan 26 12:53 |
| kecskebak | If it goes away at all. | Jan 26 12:53 |
| oiaohm | If gimp disappears completely I would not be supprised if blender was not the cause. | Jan 26 12:54 |
| kecskebak | Paint programs are so personal to an artist's workflow that they hand around a long time. Paint Shop Pro has hung around much longer than I thought. | Jan 26 12:54 |
| oiaohm | Thing that is shocking with blender is how much functionality they have got into something under 15 megs. | Jan 26 12:54 |
| kecskebak | Not written in Mono then ;) | Jan 26 12:56 |
| Eruaran | Under 15mb ? | Jan 26 12:56 |
| Eruaran | :O | Jan 26 12:56 |
| oiaohm | C C++ python kecskebak | Jan 26 12:56 |
| kecskebak | I've been playing with Vala the past couple of weeks. It's very clever. | Jan 26 12:57 |
| oiaohm | Grapical envorment of blender. Is its own done in opengl. | Jan 26 12:57 |
| oiaohm | Blender does not even care about attempting to blend into the native OS. | Jan 26 12:58 |
| kecskebak | I used to work with 3D artists, and then spend all day in the 3D program - a bit like someone like RMS would spend all day in Emacs, so that doesn't matter at all. | Jan 26 12:58 |
| kecskebak | They tended to use the computer with the scanner on it for e-mail and things like that | Jan 26 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Now that blender has a fully reprogramable interface they have even less reason to leave it. | Jan 26 13:00 |
| kecskebak | I remember one of the guys I used to work with wanted to be able to check his mail from the 3D program. I suppose he can now. | Jan 26 13:00 |
| oiaohm | As long as he can convince python todo it yep kecskebak | Jan 26 13:01 |
| oiaohm | http://blogs.computerworld.com/15465/record_setting_linux Some people | Jan 26 13:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Record-setting Linux - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 137.48 KB | Jan 26 13:06 |
| oiaohm | http://news.discovery.com/space/diamond-oceans-jupiter-uranus.html Ok wierd. | Jan 26 13:15 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Diamond Oceans Possible on Uranus, Neptune : Discovery News .::. Size~: 43.21 KB | Jan 26 13:15 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Wéér nieuw lek in MSIE. Lek is reeds twee jaar bekend en volgens Microsoft is het "a feature": http://tinyurl.com/y9q2zub | Jan 26 13:47 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Nieuw IE-lek geeft hacker leesrechten | Webwereld .::. Size~: 48.11 KB | Jan 26 13:47 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] New (two years old) IE flaw gives hackers read rights. According to Microsoft it's another "feature". http://tinyurl.com/yex7nkw | Jan 26 13:56 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Google Bericht .::. Size~: 1.17 KB | Jan 26 13:56 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Plz Endorse!! Statement demanding justice to chitralekha, a #dalit Woman auto driver harassed by CPIM & Police http://bit.ly/8adydZ | Jan 26 13:59 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: URGENTLY ENDORSE JUSTICE FOR CHITRALEKHA | The Fish Pond .::. Size~: 67.54 KB | Jan 26 13:59 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft talking strategy: | Jan 26 14:03 |
| schestowitz | "They are just as evil" | Jan 26 14:03 |
| schestowitz | "All software sucks" | Jan 26 14:03 |
| schestowitz | "No operating system is secure" | Jan 26 14:03 |
| cubezzz | who is just as evil? | Jan 26 14:06 |
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| MinceR | everybody and everything | Jan 26 14:19 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Australia May Ban Infected #Windows PCs; Nearly Half of #Europe No Longer Uses Internet Explorer http://ur1.ca/kpis | Jan 26 14:50 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Australia May Ban Infected Windows PCs; Nearly Half of Europe No Longer Uses Internet Explorer | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 106.94 KB | Jan 26 14:50 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: Apple, Google, etc. | Jan 26 15:00 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @ivanka Looking for London-based #ubuntu users to participate in some user research. Please get in touch! http://bit.ly/8MvfmM #fb | Jan 26 15:10 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / ivanka majic: Looking for London-based # ... .::. Size~: 10.37 KB | Jan 26 15:10 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] An old article but worth a read anyway on MS / UK Gov / Open Source http://bit.ly/8C4hJe | Jan 26 15:12 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Contrary to popular opinion, some people don't use twitter/identica. Here's Ivankas contact details:- http://bit.ly/8HL3NK | Jan 26 15:19 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] In addition here's a forum thread.. http://bit.ly/5xP5C3 #fb | Jan 26 15:20 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: London Ubuntu Users, participate in Canonical user testing! - Ubuntu Forums .::. Size~: 53.75 KB | Jan 26 15:20 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Inaccurate Reports About #FreeSoftware and how they may affect perception of Free(dom) software http://ur1.ca/kpla. | Jan 26 15:25 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.26 KB | Jan 26 15:25 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] More details about #ubuntu user testing in London http://bit.ly/85Q4I9 #fb | Jan 26 15:50 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: You sound like youre from London! « jorges stompbox .::. Size~: 27.25 KB | Jan 26 15:50 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] RT: @minix3: AST is speaking at FOSDEM ( http://www.fosdem.org/2010/ ), where he will release MINIX 3.1.6! Preview to be announced soon! | Jan 26 15:51 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: fosdem.org .::. Size~: 22.89 KB | Jan 26 15:51 |
| cubezzz | would IRC be considered a "chat room"? | Jan 26 15:55 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #UbuntuDeveloperWeek the session "Java libraries packaging" will begin in 10 minutes. | Jan 26 15:55 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@whisper1111 teabaggers incensed to find out conventions are for RICH white folks // doubtful. have accepted role as elite's brownshirts | Jan 26 15:56 | |
| FurnaceBoy | ha | Jan 26 15:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | that will normally earn you derision. | Jan 26 15:58 |
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| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: I have a post for you... | Jan 26 16:11 |
| schestowitz | One moment.... | Jan 26 16:11 |
| schestowitz | Then I have to run to the barber... :-D | Jan 26 16:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | ok | Jan 26 16:12 |
| *FurnaceBoy has to go buy some stuff for breakfast too, bbs | Jan 26 16:12 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rich Uncle Bill Comes to Visit the New York Times http://boycottnovell.com/2010/01/26/gates-nyt-wunderkind/ | Jan 26 16:15 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Rich Uncle Bill Comes to Visit the New York Times | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.9 KB | Jan 26 16:15 |
| schestowitz | There^^. OK, gotta go now | Jan 26 16:17 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Rsync - not to be confused with Arse Inc, which is in interesting company name which brings a mental image all it's own ;) | Jan 26 16:30 | |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: I already tweeted about it yesterday :) | Jan 26 16:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: ah, your article. will read | Jan 26 16:34 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Almost as much fun as watching /proc/mdstat is watching launchpad build my packages https://launchpad.net/builders | Jan 26 16:46 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Launchpad build farm .::. Size~: 67.63 KB | Jan 26 16:46 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] the cynic in me wonders if Rio wouldn't prefer a 3 match ban to give him more time to be properly match fit, and an excuse SAF can't ignore | Jan 26 17:28 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] FSFE not mentioning software patents in their statement, swpats are absent of the WIPO report on exceptions to patent law: http://i5.be/aoj | Jan 26 17:48 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Karsten on Free Software » FSFEs opening statement at WIPO SCP/14 .::. Size~: 36.33 KB | Jan 26 17:48 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Gates Foundation is,at best,a sales front for Gates' own investments http://bit.ly/cOseCR #fraud #greed | Jan 26 18:00 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Rich Uncle Bill Comes to Visit the New York Times | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.9 KB | Jan 26 18:00 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Reports of computer security disasters "forget" to mention #Windows' role: http://boycottnovell.com/2010/01/26/security-trouble-and-isps/ | Jan 26 18:01 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Australia May Ban Infected Windows PCs; Nearly Half of Europe No Longer Uses Internet Explorer | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.13 KB | Jan 26 18:01 |
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| _Goblin | hi all | Jan 26 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Jan 26 18:54 |
| _Goblin | anything exciting happening? | Jan 26 18:59 |
| schestowitz | got back, brb | Jan 26 19:00 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Francisco Mingorance still lobbies for Software-Patents in the European Union: http://i5.be/aol | Jan 26 19:16 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Francisco Mingorance still lobbies for Software-Patents in the European Union | Eurolinux Alliance .::. Size~: 15.63 KB | Jan 26 19:16 |
| schestowitz | > Hi, Roy, | Jan 26 19:20 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 26 19:20 |
| schestowitz | > I guess this explains why CNet is fawning over Bill's minions in Haiti: | Jan 26 19:20 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 26 19:20 |
| schestowitz | > http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5685 | Jan 26 19:20 |
| schestowitz | > “I wouldn’t call anyone a monopolist,” .. | Jan 26 19:21 |
| schestowitz | > 'He went on to say that historically companies that become “hyper-successful” invite government antitrust scrutiny ..' | Jan 26 19:21 |
| schestowitz | > “If governments don’t care, that’s a bad sign,” Mr. Gates said. | Jan 26 19:21 |
| schestowitz | > “There are several positive feedback loops in this business, and they are particularly powerful” [regarding Google] | Jan 26 19:21 |
| schestowitz | > 'Microsoft is investing heavily in search — “the last big investor” other than Google' | Jan 26 19:21 |
| schestowitz | > [ haaaa ? what the f**k is he on about ? Remember Microsoft was in 'search' way before Google, yea ?? ] | Jan 26 19:21 |
| schestowitz | > “They’ve done nothing and gotten a lot of credit for it,” | Jan 26 19:21 |
| schestowitz | > “Now, if Google ever chooses to pull out of the United States, then I’d give them credit.” | Jan 26 19:21 |
| schestowitz | > [What a c*** !!!] | Jan 26 19:22 |
| schestowitz | > http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/microsofts-bill-gates-defends-google-then-pans-it/ | Jan 26 19:22 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 26 19:22 |
| _Goblin | I wouldn't even give his "work" a mention...with the amount of money he has what I have seen so far is merely a simple guesture.....its merely in my opinion a PR exercise. | Jan 26 19:22 |
| _Goblin | (in respect of Haiti) | Jan 26 19:22 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: another decent show: http://linuxcrazy.com/?q=node/84 | Jan 26 19:22 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Podcast 70 Colin Guthrie Interview | LinuxCrazy .::. Size~: 13.17 KB | Jan 26 19:22 |
| _Goblin | cheers! I was looking for something to listen to.... | Jan 26 19:22 |
| _Goblin | no wrestling to watch! | Jan 26 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Pulseaudio | Jan 26 19:23 |
| schestowitz | The guest is technically brilliant, the host just read questions | Jan 26 19:23 |
| balzac | what's up roy | Jan 26 19:24 |
| balzac | I'm thinking of horning in on the search business, eventually | Jan 26 19:24 |
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| _Goblin | horning? Sounds rather rude... ;) each to their own. | Jan 26 19:26 |
| schestowitz | balzac: dusruptech? | Jan 26 19:28 |
| schestowitz | *isr | Jan 26 19:28 |
| schestowitz | I fell asleep at the sauna | Jan 26 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | oh my god, not another update | Jan 26 19:29 |
| schestowitz | Woke up steamin' | Jan 26 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | Keyboard function keys or keyboard shortcuts, such as mute or calculator, may not work correctly. The notification icon for an application may be moved or lost when the executable application is updated. On a computer that is running Windows 7, you configure the Screen Saver Settings to display the logon screen on resume. Additionally, you configure the computer to go to sleep. However, the computer may not go to sleep afte | Jan 26 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | I've had the second one happen a lot | Jan 26 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | the third one sounds like it could be fun to experience on a laptop | Jan 26 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | "May not go to sleep, may display black screen instead" - Does this mean "May overheat and burn itself up by the time you get back"? | Jan 26 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | to quote Bernie Mac from Bad Santa "Sweet Jews for Jesus!" | Jan 26 19:32 |
| _Goblin | Youre right Roy....Interviewer sounds like he is merely reading from a script and knows nothing about the subject. | Jan 26 19:32 |
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| DaemonFC | I've been having the icon bug happen since before the beta | Jan 26 19:33 |
| _Goblin | what bug are you talking about? | Jan 26 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | you know lots of other people have been cursing and spitting over that | Jan 26 19:33 |
| schestowitz | Hey, trmanCA | Jan 26 19:33 |
| trmanco | yHello | Jan 26 19:33 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: Windows | Jan 26 19:34 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFOX is a Windows [l]user | Jan 26 19:34 |
| schestowitz | :-p | Jan 26 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | _Goblin: Like, when I install Firefox for example, right? And then the updater installs a new version, I "might" lose my desktop and start menu icons for Firefox and Windows 7 displays the "dead shortcut" icon for it instead | Jan 26 19:34 |
| _Goblin | Ah... Windows 7 | Jan 26 19:34 |
| _Goblin | Ive given that a long test...... | Jan 26 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | it's one of the more aggravating bugs I've seen | Jan 26 19:35 |
| _Goblin | so that I can't be accused of giving it a fair shot. | Jan 26 19:35 |
| _Goblin | *not giving | Jan 26 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | eventually you update enough programs and every icon on your desktop and taskbar and start menu is dead | Jan 26 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Good luck with that | Jan 26 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | They didn't mention that on the "It's better than Vista" crusade | Jan 26 19:35 |
| trmanco | I got sick already | Jan 26 19:36 |
| schestowitz | "It's better than Linux" was the crusade | Jan 26 19:36 |
| _Goblin | You know my biggest problem with Win7? It how I have to my left a state of the art brand new PC running Windows 7 and performing the same tasks as my Linux rig (which is on 4year old hardware) much much slower.... | Jan 26 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | it's yet another "slap it until it goes away" nuisance bug | Jan 26 19:36 |
| schestowitz | "It's better with Windows" was their shill's slogan | Jan 26 19:36 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Britain's first iPhone baby is born http://newstechnica.com/?p=1370 | Jan 26 19:36 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Britains first iPhone baby is born | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 38.17 KB | Jan 26 19:36 |
| _Goblin | A linux rig with 4 year old hardware runs quicker than Windows 7 on latest specs....go figure... | Jan 26 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know how something so obvious and stupid nd simple to fix could have made it through a year of testing and into the final version | Jan 26 19:37 |
| _Goblin | comparing like for like: | Jan 26 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | it speaks for their "testing" process | Jan 26 19:37 |
| _Goblin | Chromium is a clear 3 seconds quicker on the load than Windows 7 | Jan 26 19:37 |
| _Goblin | Firefox...too.. | Jan 26 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | as in the Chromium OS? | Jan 26 19:37 |
| _Goblin | no sorry, browser | Jan 26 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | I was going to say no shit it starts up quicker, all you have when you get booted up is a browser | Jan 26 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 26 19:38 |
| _Goblin | Emulation of other systems is faster in Linux, infact one step further Linux can run Emulators that are written for Windows quicker than Windows can. | Jan 26 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | it'll start up quicker than Ubuntu or Fedora or Mandriva too | Jan 26 19:38 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: http://www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/home/2010/01/im-not-a-conspiracy-theorist-but.html | Jan 26 19:38 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but... - Big Brother Watch .::. Size~: 41.32 KB | Jan 26 19:38 |
| schestowitz | " | Jan 26 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Not only did Dr David Kelly die in suspicious circumstances - but now, thanks to Lord Hutton, the medical evidence about those circumstances will not be revealed for 70 years. | Jan 26 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Lord Hutton's inquiry ruled that Kelly had killed himself. And Hutton heard all the evidence. If the medical evidence supports that conclusion, why seal it for 70 years? | Jan 26 19:38 |
| schestowitz | " | Jan 26 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | they're getting really fucking sloppy though, issuing patches sporadically, out of band is becoming their norm | Jan 26 19:40 |
| _Goblin | schestowitz: Now you have a point, that is a strange one. | Jan 26 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | every day there's a patch that makes you reboot | Jan 26 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | it's not reasonable | Jan 26 19:40 |
| _Goblin | schestowitz: I certaom;y find the Kelly case interesting... | Jan 26 19:40 |
| _Goblin | *certainly | Jan 26 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | _Goblin: The sick thing is that companies don't _want_ to reboot every day, so they put off security updates while there are worms running around doing anything and everything | Jan 26 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | If there's one most compelling reason for them to get off Windows, I'd say that's probably it | Jan 26 19:42 |
| cubezzz | of course they don't want to reboot every day | Jan 26 19:44 |
| cubezzz | that's normal | Jan 26 19:44 |
| cubezzz | 14:41:31 up 99 days, 11:19, 9 users, load average: 0.20, 0.38, 0.40 | Jan 26 19:44 |
| cubezzz | if I had a longer lasting ups I'd probably have uptimes in years | Jan 26 19:45 |
| cubezzz | but yes, it's a compelling reason | Jan 26 19:47 |
| _Goblin | Ive never left one of my own machines on for longer than about 32 hours.....ever. | Jan 26 19:47 |
| cubezzz | I coax my customers to at least use dual boot | Jan 26 19:47 |
| cubezzz | well, I'm running a server | Jan 26 19:47 |
| _Goblin | the best way for newbies to Linux IMO. | Jan 26 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | There was a patch for Windows 98 that amused me once..."Your computer may crash after 49.7 days of uptime" | Jan 26 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | isn't that like, bending the laws of the universe? | Jan 26 19:48 |
| cubezzz | no, I've seen windows go more than 50 days without rebooting | Jan 26 19:48 |
| cubezzz | but that was windows 2k not windows 98 | Jan 26 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | if they issued a patch that said "Your computer may crash after 0.1 days of uptime" I'd believe them | Jan 26 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | if you leave Windows 98 sitting there, it will crash itself eventually | Jan 26 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | I did notice there's an active project to extend Windows 98 called "KernelEx" which lets it run Windows XP programs | Jan 26 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | I'm surprised that many people still use it or care | Jan 26 19:50 |
| cubezzz | no, I see Vista/XP/Windows 7 | Jan 26 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | I've had way more trouble out of Windows 7 than XP x64 | Jan 26 19:51 |
| cubezzz | there's still some win95 boxes out there | Jan 26 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | I haven't ever managed to crash XP x64, I can crash Windows 7 easily, and there's all these stupid little bugs like the icons thing | Jan 26 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | hell, one day I was listening to an MP3, that's all I was doing, and Windows 7 blue screened and rebooted | Jan 26 19:53 |
| _Goblin | as the weeks have gone on using Win7, the powerdown and bootup times have suffered. | Jan 26 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | _Goblin: Well, it's continuing the fine tradition of the Pre-SP1 Rule if you ask me | Jan 26 19:53 |
| _Goblin | but even when it was "fresh" it still didn't perform as fast as Linux.... | Jan 26 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | _Goblin: Most people don't turn off Windows Defender, that's a mistake | Jan 26 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | any antivirus you're likely to install detects way more spyware | Jan 26 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | no reason to have Defender running at all | Jan 26 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | hell, I even think ClamWin detects moer spyware | Jan 26 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | the last time I saw statistics, Windows Defender was catching like 47% of malware thrown at it, and even ClamWin was managing 56% | Jan 26 19:56 |
| cubezzz | man, why even bother using doze? | Jan 26 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | meh | Jan 26 19:56 |
| cubezzz | is it fun complaining about it? | Jan 26 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | because I didn't realize what a no-lube, no-reach around experience Wine was when coupled with FGLRX | Jan 26 19:56 |
| cubezzz | a job is a job, but for personal use there's no point | Jan 26 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | mostly | Jan 26 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | so until FGLRX is unfucked or or the x.org ati driver is better, I'm on Windows if I want 100% of my GPU to work | Jan 26 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | I might have held my nose and bought Nvidia again if I knew that shaders were broken in Wine on ATI cards (all of them) | Jan 26 19:58 |
| cubezzz | even for games (which isn't often) I still use GNU/Linux | Jan 26 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know, it's a catch-22, support Nvidia or support Microsoft | Jan 26 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like either of them | Jan 26 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft isn't donating to TEA Party causes though, Nvidia is | Jan 26 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | like Proposition 8 | Jan 26 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | it really burns me that I've ever given Nvidia's Teabagging CEO and Board of Directors so much as one of my dollars to pursue that shit with | Jan 26 20:00 |
| cubezzz | I'm not sure what to suggest for video cards | Jan 26 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia's hardware is even behind | Jan 26 20:01 |
| DaemonFC | ATI is pretty much, dollar for dollar, the best performing hardware you will get | Jan 26 20:01 |
| cubezzz | I used to really like ati | Jan 26 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | their Linux driver leaves something to be desired, but I doubt with Nvidia, you will EVER see an Nvidia card working properly without a blob | Jan 26 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | and there's a good chance that ATI will work fine with no blob by the end of this year | Jan 26 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | it already does for <4000 series | Jan 26 20:03 |
| cubezzz | there's the nouveau driver, and the guys in #nouveau will talk to you | Jan 26 20:03 |
| cubezzz | which ATI card would you recommend? | Jan 26 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | Nouveau is not proceeding rapidly because they have to reverse engineer and guess, and trial and error everything | Jan 26 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | they are getting zilch as far as Nvidia's backing | Jan 26 20:03 |
| cubezzz | my panasonic toughbook has ATI chipset | Jan 26 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | they may even get sued | Jan 26 20:03 |
| cubezzz | ha, for what? | Jan 26 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | I use a HIS RadeonHD 4670 with 1 GB of GDDR3 | Jan 26 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | cost me about $70 | Jan 26 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | I like it | Jan 26 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | I'd estimate it's about 75% supported by the current svn FOSS ati driver | Jan 26 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | what is working so far blows FGLRX performance entirely out of the water | Jan 26 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | like, Compiz works, most native Linux games work, Prey works B-) | Jan 26 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | DOOM III works | Jan 26 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | some games have texture corruption, Sauerbraten is mostly jsut a black screen with bad guys running around | Jan 26 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | games in Wine , forget it for now | Jan 26 20:06 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: 70 years is enough to ensure we're all dead and our grandkids can't be arsed about it..... | Jan 26 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | Compiz is smooth, FGLRX can't even run Compiz without frame dropouts | Jan 26 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | FGLRX sucks | Jan 26 20:07 |
| cubezzz | if you're 20 now you could still be around at 90 | Jan 26 20:07 |
| schestowitz | It wasn't until 2007 that I even started looking more closely at it. Did you know about the unsealed documents from 2008 which showed the Russian going to start nuclear war? | Jan 26 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | oh, and FGLRX bugs not only drop frames in Compiz, somtimes the window animations are black | Jan 26 20:07 |
| cubezzz | if you're 30 you could still be around at 100 :) | Jan 26 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz: 5% chance | Jan 26 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | give or take | Jan 26 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | 0% chance in most non-Western countries | Jan 26 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | there's a lot of places where if you live to 35, you've beaten the odds and you're a great-grandfather | Jan 26 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | sad, isn't it? | Jan 26 20:09 |
| cubezzz | that sounds impossible | Jan 26 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | I was making a point | Jan 26 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | I think like, in Rwanda, you can be expected to live to like 38 on average | Jan 26 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | a nice long life is highly unlikely | Jan 26 20:10 |
| cubezzz | only with infant mortality reducing the average to 35 | Jan 26 20:10 |
| cubezzz | I'm sure some of them live to 70 or 80 | Jan 26 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | infant mortality, food shortage, HIV, Malaria, War | Jan 26 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | War with child soldiers | Jan 26 20:10 |
| cubezzz | yes, that would definitely reduce the average lifespan | Jan 26 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, this will impact your life expectancy | Jan 26 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | governments changing in a coup every year or three | Jan 26 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | massive external debt, civil war, rioting | Jan 26 20:11 |
| DaemonFC | crime rate high because there are no police or they're all corrupt or don't care | Jan 26 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | then with no police comes drug trafficking, contract hits, drug cartel wars in people's villages | Jan 26 20:13 |
| DaemonFC | you have a lot of problems just feeding each other in these places | Jan 26 20:14 |
| *jono has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jan 26 20:14 | |
| DaemonFC | government instability is pretty much the root cause of it, and a big contributing factor to that is international banks giving the government high interest abusive loans that corrupt officials spend on themselves instead of providing basic social services | Jan 26 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | the IMF is pretty much an insurance policy that "first world" countries take out to keep the "third world" impoverished and susceptible to outside interests | Jan 26 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | so this pretty much leads back to the same people that keep jacking up the number of years it takes for something to be public domain | Jan 26 20:17 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 20:17 | |
| DaemonFC | the same imaginary property laws that keep people that can't pay for books and music illiterate, keep the third world starving with no access to medicine | Jan 26 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | I actually hope that ACTA falls apart over some kind of international bickering (treaties sometimes do) because its passage would take away many life-saving medications from people that need them who can get them for pennies on the dollar | Jan 26 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | you watch, after ACTA, drug companies will do some fake charity like they do for people with no insurance here | Jan 26 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | "give away" a few of "their pills", not enough to meet the needs, but enough to make it look like they give a shit | Jan 26 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | they thrive by making 10 cents worth of pills and selling them for $100 a bottle or more here | Jan 26 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | using research that was mostly taxpayer-funded | Jan 26 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | I really hope there's no Republican running against Senator Bayh this year, throw him out and replace him with a Libertarian | Jan 26 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | we came close last time | Jan 26 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | bag one ACTA-supporter right there | Jan 26 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I might ask to speak at the next Teabagger meeting | Jan 26 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | see if I can rally some of them against ACTA, they already hate Democrats obviously | Jan 26 20:27 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20100124/1714107882.shtml | Jan 26 20:27 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: New Music Format File Can Be Updated Remotely | Techdirt .::. Size~: 69.55 KB | Jan 26 20:27 |
| schestowitz | [20:20] <DaemonFC> you watch, after ACTA, drug companies will do some fake charity like they do for people with no insurance here | Jan 26 20:27 |
| schestowitz | They have henchman for it | Jan 26 20:27 |
| schestowitz | Like Bill Pearly Gates | Jan 26 20:28 |
| schestowitz | he does the fake charity | Jan 26 20:28 |
| schestowitz | While spreading the patent of those cartels, which he invests in | Jan 26 20:28 |
| trmanco | any news? | Jan 26 20:29 |
| schestowitz | "The big pharma company GSK will publish a list of some 13000 chemicals that might do some good against malaria, but is trying to make that sound like more than it is. The article becomes incoherent when it starts discussing what GSK will or won't do with its patents that restrict some of these drugs. Perhaps it is only offering to make deals with the other big pharma companies." | Jan 26 20:29 |
| schestowitz | http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-nov-feb.html#25%20January%202010%20%28Baby%20steps%20from%20GlaxoSmithKline%20%29 | Jan 26 20:29 |
| schestowitz | "We cannot really tell. What is clear is that GSK wants to avoid the real solution: poor countries should not allow patents on medicine. " | Jan 26 20:29 |
| schestowitz | What a sick world | Jan 26 20:29 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: none that's big | Jan 26 20:29 |
| trmanco | nothing related to canada? | Jan 26 20:30 |
| schestowitz | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/7075698/China-to-lead-world-scientific-research-by-2020.html | Jan 26 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Canada has bullies by Hollywood, as always | Jan 26 20:30 |
| trmanco | hmmm | Jan 26 20:32 |
| schestowitz | https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=Nat_Petition_CloseGitmo_Jan2010&s_src=UNW100001ACT&s_subsrc=gitmoemail&JServSessionIdr004=8d62yqpwo1.app224a | Jan 26 20:37 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: ACLU : Close Guantánamo .::. Size~: 12.27 KB | Jan 26 20:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/24/taliban-afghanistan-nato-opium-insurgency | Jan 26 20:38 |
| cubezzz | Stallman's been posting a lot of late | Jan 26 20:38 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 20:38 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] It's a plane... no, it's a bird..... no, it's just CCTV. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/23/cctv-sky-police-plan-drones | Jan 26 20:40 | |
| oiaohm | Really Australian infection numbers should not be shocking. Australia has the highest us of MS products per head of population. | Jan 26 20:44 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/24/warren-hern-america-late-abortion | Jan 26 20:45 |
| oiaohm | Really that drone thing is a double sided thing schestowitz | Jan 26 20:46 |
| oiaohm | One it reduces the numbers of high speed driving police have todo. | Jan 26 20:46 |
| schestowitz | It's expensive | Jan 26 20:46 |
| schestowitz | And it might not improve security | Jan 26 20:46 |
| oiaohm | Compared to a helli copter chasing someone they are not that expensive | Jan 26 20:47 |
| schestowitz | I know | Jan 26 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they can float these off the van upon chases | Jan 26 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Then have someone navigate it with a remote | Jan 26 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Give instructions to people on the ground | Jan 26 20:48 |
| schestowitz | "They arrived on Sunday, 31 May last year. As they drove to their hotel, a Holiday Inn just two blocks from the Reformation Lutheran Church, they saw television cameras. They wondered what was going on, a passing curiosity quickly forgotten. But when they got to their room, the phone was ringing. Her father was on the line. "There was some doctor who was shot who does abortions," he said. They turned on CNN. Dr Tiller had just been | Jan 26 20:48 |
| schestowitz | killed, shot in the head as he passed out church leaflets." | Jan 26 20:48 |
| schestowitz | I guess that in the US, one of the most dangerous jobs is in an abortion clinic | Jan 26 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Dangerous to the doctor, not the embroys | Jan 26 20:49 |
| schestowitz | *embryos | Jan 26 20:49 |
| cubezzz | Foolish | Jan 26 20:49 |
| oiaohm | high speed police pursuit reduction usage they will pay for them selves. schestowitz | Jan 26 20:49 |
| trmanco | I barely know how to write portuguese now :/ | Jan 26 20:49 |
| cubezzz | what is the world's pop now? | Jan 26 20:49 |
| oiaohm | Really the Australian bat wings drones for high speed pursuit reduction would be more suitable. | Jan 26 20:50 |
| oiaohm | http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/12/australian-drone-perches-stares/ Most drones used by the australian mil are not that expensive since on the battle field australia mil presumes some of them will be lost. The control system is expensive | Jan 26 20:58 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Aussie Hovering Drone is Straight Outta Avatar | Danger Room | Wired.com .::. Size~: 82.88 KB | Jan 26 20:58 |
| trmanco | well, time to go | Jan 26 20:59 |
| trmanco | cya guys and gals* | Jan 26 20:59 |
| *trmanco has quit ("Page closed") | Jan 26 21:02 | |
| schestowitz | trmanco, it'll come backl | Jan 26 21:20 |
| schestowitz | never mind, too lat | Jan 26 21:20 |
| schestowitz | *late *back | Jan 26 21:21 |
| schestowitz | http://opensource.com/ | Jan 26 21:30 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Featured content | opensource.com .::. Size~: 49.52 KB | Jan 26 21:30 |
| schestowitz | I have another posts 15 coming but no time to finish them.... | Jan 26 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Lag | Jan 26 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | Article I Section 32: The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State. | Jan 26 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Backlog even | Jan 26 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | nyaaaah | Jan 26 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Are you a cowboy? | Jan 26 21:33 |
| schestowitz | http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/ < - DaemonFOX | Jan 26 21:34 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Brokeback Mountain (2005) .::. Size~: 76.07 KB | Jan 26 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | well, under that, even if the second amendment of the federal constitution was repealed, I still have the right to bear arms as granted in Article I Section 32 of the Indiana Constitution | Jan 26 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Jan 26 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | then there's the movie about erectile dysfunction, schestowitz | Jan 26 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | Brokedick Fountain | Jan 26 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://www.angryalien.com/aa/brokebackbuns.asp | Jan 26 21:37 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Brokeback Mountain in 30 seconds with bunnies. .::. Size~: 4.55 KB | Jan 26 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.angryalien.com/aa/bondbuns.asp | Jan 26 21:38 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bunny Bond Medley in 30 seconds with bunnies. .::. Size~: 4.09 KB | Jan 26 21:38 |
| *jono_ (n=jono@c-67-164-44-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 21:39 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.angryalien.com/1205/starwarsbuns.asp | Jan 26 21:40 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Star Wars in 30 seconds with bunnies. .::. Size~: 4.64 KB | Jan 26 21:40 |
| oiaohm | Now the question is who decides what is too big of arms for a person to have for defence DaemonFC | Jan 26 21:40 |
| schestowitz | IFad. http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/01/26/tweet_ipad/ | Jan 26 21:40 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: German retailer Tweets iPad details • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 20.38 KB | Jan 26 21:40 |
| oiaohm | I don't see people being happy if someone tried to have a nuke as a personal defence weapon DaemonFC | Jan 26 21:41 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: Well, I prefer the rocket launcher and the minigun myself, but.... | Jan 26 21:41 |
| DaemonFC | we can't have everything | Jan 26 21:41 |
| oiaohm | Mortor and Mortor luancher can be built from general hardware supplies. | Jan 26 21:42 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFOX must be scheming to attack his cat | Jan 26 21:43 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: *tar? | Jan 26 21:43 |
| DaemonFC | yes, he's got weapons of mass destruction and yellow cake uranium, the British told me | Jan 26 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Who? Dr. Kelly? | Jan 26 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Enough with weapon talk | Jan 26 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | the British told me! | Jan 26 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | that's all you need to know | Jan 26 21:44 |
| schestowitz | It's barrels with chemicals, not pricks | Jan 26 21:44 |
| schestowitz | Guns are for cowards | Jan 26 21:44 |
| MinceR | 223812 < oiaohm> I don't see people being happy if someone tried to have a nuke as a personal defence weapon DaemonFC | Jan 26 21:44 |
| MinceR | brings Snow Crash to mind | Jan 26 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | well, it's nice to have friends as corrupt as you are, schestowitz Your great nation has taught us that. | Jan 26 21:45 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/26/hallelujah_mountain/ | Jan 26 21:45 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Chinese Avatards scale Hallelujah Mountain • The Register .::. Size~: 22.36 KB | Jan 26 21:45 |
| schestowitz | MinceR, oiaohm: the Russian sold some | Jan 26 21:45 |
| schestowitz | They put nuclear weapons ended up in the ends of some army vet/mafia | Jan 26 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Submarines too | Jan 26 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | corrupt allies make the world go 'round | Jan 26 21:46 |
| schestowitz | See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1u2PrPqdUc | Jan 26 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | they also doodle the invasion plan for you on a napkin and slip it under the table, then give you a hand job | Jan 26 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | for part of the take of course | Jan 26 21:47 |
| DaemonFC | serviette=napkin for my English to English translation | Jan 26 21:48 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/26/ibm_35tb_tape/ | Jan 26 21:48 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: IBM's monster tape will take three days to fill • The Register .::. Size~: 25.44 KB | Jan 26 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | before there's any jokes | Jan 26 21:48 |
| *jono has quit (Connection timed out) | Jan 26 21:48 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/26/socal-school-distric.html | Jan 26 21:49 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: SoCal school district bans the dictionary Boing Boing .::. Size~: 158.88 KB | Jan 26 21:49 |
| schestowitz | 'Southern California's Menifee Union school district has banned the Merriam Webster's 10th edition from use in fourth and fifth grade classes, over this salacious definition of "oral sex": "oral stimulation of the genitals".' | Jan 26 21:49 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Yup, #ubuntu is switching to Yahoo! for the search provider. http://popey.com/blog/2010/01/26/yahoobuntu/ #fb | Jan 26 21:49 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Yahoobuntu!!! | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 22.06 KB | Jan 26 21:49 |
| schestowitz | OMG they said "Stimulation" | Jan 26 21:49 |
| oiaohm | Write speed is the killer with tape. | Jan 26 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Yahoo!??? | Jan 26 21:50 |
| schestowitz | But they are moving to the criminal company | Jan 26 21:50 |
| oiaohm | Then retreve speed. | Jan 26 21:50 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu is getting more criminal | Jan 26 21:50 |
| oiaohm | What Ubuntu has done is cut off funding to mozilla to go into there own pockets. | Jan 26 21:51 |
| oiaohm | So damaging the upstream. | Jan 26 21:51 |
| oiaohm | Really it shows how much respect Ubuntu has for the open source world. None. | Jan 26 21:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | what;s so special about "fourth and fifth grade" | Jan 26 21:52 |
| *FurnaceBoy sighs | Jan 26 21:52 | |
| FurnaceBoy | they should loook up "salacious" before trying to use it in a sentence | Jan 26 21:52 |
| *jono_ is now known as jono | Jan 26 21:52 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @popey But Yahoo! is going to redirect to the convicted monopoly that called Ubuntu "cancer" | Jan 26 21:52 | |
| schestowitz | omg! aliens: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/26/street_view_stig/ | Jan 26 21:52 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Top Gear's Stig prowls Loch Ness • The Register .::. Size~: 21.16 KB | Jan 26 21:52 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: really it would not matter who they changed the search company to. | Jan 26 21:53 |
| oiaohm | I hope mozilla hits ubuntu for trademark infringement. | Jan 26 21:53 |
| oiaohm | Altering the search provider cutting of money normally pisses Mozilla off. | Jan 26 21:53 |
| schestowitz | I thought about it | Jan 26 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | jono: has "no comment" I'm guessing | Jan 26 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | What is a PR frontperson to do? | Jan 26 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | in such tumultuous times of peril | Jan 26 21:55 |
| jono | DaemonFC, ? | Jan 26 21:55 |
| jono | what do you want to discuss? | Jan 26 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | YahellMonobuntu | Jan 26 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | of course | Jan 26 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Barzmer is happy | Jan 26 21:55 |
| jono | DaemonFC, riiiight | Jan 26 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Maybe she and Ballmer will rock tonight :-) | Jan 26 21:56 |
| DaemonFC | next thing you'll do is ship Ubuntu full of other crapware | Jan 26 21:56 |
| jono | schestowitzlol | Jan 26 21:56 |
| DaemonFC | to profit of course | Jan 26 21:56 |
| jono | DaemonFC, thats our plan actually | Jan 26 21:56 |
| jono | we don't really like free software | Jan 26 21:56 |
| jono | never have | Jan 26 21:56 |
| jono | all those millions of dollars we plough into producing a free operating system is just a swindle | Jan 26 21:56 |
| DaemonFC | jono: Hey, I have an idea, ship it with a channel bar full of advertising for Mickey Mouse and crap | Jan 26 21:56 |
| DaemonFC | just like Windows 98 | Jan 26 21:56 |
| jono | DaemonFC, well, the wonderful thing about Open Source is the freedom of choice | Jan 26 21:57 |
| jono | feel free to use another OS | Jan 26 21:57 |
| jono | we fully admit that Ubuntu does not meet everyone's needs | Jan 26 21:57 |
| DaemonFC | might as well stick with Windows, especially in light of how fast Ubuntu is deteriorating | Jan 26 21:57 |
| jono | DaemonFC, lol | Jan 26 21:57 |
| jono | DaemonFC, do you not think that might be a bit harsh? | Jan 26 21:57 |
| DaemonFC | not really | Jan 26 21:58 |
| jono | you do realize all search engines monetize search | Jan 26 21:58 |
| jono | and you do realize that it costs money to build Ubuntu | Jan 26 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I'm aware of that | Jan 26 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | but you guys are switching to Bing | Jan 26 21:58 |
| jono | and that we fund over 100 developers to produce a free Operating system | Jan 26 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | whore yourselves out | Jan 26 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | that's right | Jan 26 21:58 |
| jono | DaemonFC, no we are not, Yahoo! is not Bing | Jan 26 21:58 |
| jono | read the announcement | Jan 26 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | Yahoo is using Bing | Jan 26 21:58 |
| jono | DaemonFC, whore ourselve s out? | Jan 26 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | you are promoting Bing via proxy | Jan 26 21:58 |
| jono | ok, I am not participating in ignorance | Jan 26 21:58 |
| schestowitz | jono: DaemonFOX is trolling people for attention | Jan 26 21:58 |
| jono | think you what you want | Jan 26 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | I can get Bing as default in Internet Explorer | Jan 26 21:59 |
| schestowitz | Don't pay too much atteniob | Jan 26 21:59 |
| schestowitz |  | Jan 26 21:59 |
| schestowitz | [21:57] <DaemonFC> might as well stick with Windows, especially in light of how fast Ubuntu is deteriorating | Jan 26 21:59 |
| schestowitz | You're a Windows uers | Jan 26 21:59 |
| schestowitz | *user | Jan 26 21:59 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, so? | Jan 26 21:59 |
| jono | DaemonFC, here's a suggestion, make a valid contribution | Jan 26 21:59 |
| jono | schestowitz thankyou | Jan 26 21:59 |
| FurnaceBoy | stick with windows? what's the point? | Jan 26 21:59 |
| *MinceR wonders how low can canonical stoop | Jan 26 21:59 | |
| jono | schestowitz sorry for the snarky tweet, bit of a shit day today | Jan 26 21:59 |
| jono | a friend of mine is ill | Jan 26 21:59 |
| DaemonFC | dinner is done, bbiab | Jan 26 22:00 |
| *FurnaceBoy goes to follow jono | Jan 26 22:00 | |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jan 26 22:00 | |
| schestowitz | jono: something serious? | Jan 26 22:00 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/26/id_cards_rate/ | Jan 26 22:00 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Entire UK will be on ID database sometime in next 3 millennia • The Register .::. Size~: 23.5 KB | Jan 26 22:00 |
| schestowitz | Meh. They start with Manc | Jan 26 22:01 |
| jono | schestowitz we hope not | Jan 26 22:01 |
| jono | schestowitz ooh, so hows tricks? | Jan 26 22:01 |
| jono | long time since we had a chat | Jan 26 22:01 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, we should speak sometime | Jan 26 22:01 |
| jono | schestowitz maybe a chat later this week? | Jan 26 22:02 |
| schestowitz | Heh:- > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/26/techcrunch_hack/ | Jan 26 22:03 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Smut-peddling hackers pwn TechCrunch • The Register .::. Size~: 20.52 KB | Jan 26 22:03 |
| schestowitz | jono: sure :-) | Jan 26 22:03 |
| jono | :) | Jan 26 22:03 |
| schestowitz | TechCrunch sold out to Microsoft too | Jan 26 22:03 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9733995-7.html | Jan 26 22:03 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Malik, Arrington and Battelle: X-22, come in | News Blog - CNET News .::. Size~: 73.97 KB | Jan 26 22:04 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8480467.stm | Jan 26 22:09 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 96.5 KB | Jan 26 22:09 |
| schestowitz | "The site, which profiles Silicon Valley start-ups and US firms, was offline for nearly four hours from 0630 GMT. " | Jan 26 22:09 |
| schestowitz | They say "hacker" [sic] | Jan 26 22:09 |
| _Goblin | what an evening....picked up another "new" handle on my site...this one has a problem with Photoshop being even suggested for Ubuntu, but can't really say why... | Jan 26 22:09 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: we can have this discussion again :-) | Jan 26 22:09 |
| _Goblin | cool....prepare... | Jan 26 22:10 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: what do you think of most GNU/Linux users being directed for Microsoft to spy on their search habits? :-) | Jan 26 22:10 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8479000.stm "More than 100 MPs are using the social networking site Twitter to communicate with voters, a survey suggests." | Jan 26 22:10 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 96.5 KB | Jan 26 22:10 |
| _Goblin | Sorry, could you rephrase...Im not sure I get that... | Jan 26 22:10 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: I decided not to take the plane, we'll arrange over the weekend where in London to meet up | Jan 26 22:11 |
| MinceR | _Goblin: http://popey.com/blog/2010/01/26/yahoobuntu/ | Jan 26 22:11 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Yahoobuntu!!! | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 34.1 KB | Jan 26 22:11 |
| MinceR | yahoo is bingo in disguise | Jan 26 22:11 |
| _Goblin | yep, so I gather... | Jan 26 22:11 |
| _Goblin | I thought the "deal" was already complete. | Jan 26 22:11 |
| _Goblin | or am I jumping the gun? | Jan 26 22:11 |
| schestowitz | WHo knows...... | Jan 26 22:12 |
| _Goblin | never yahoo anyway. | Jan 26 22:12 |
| schestowitz | BTW, MArkS announced his departure on my bday | Jan 26 22:12 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure giving Ubuntu flak is productive | Jan 26 22:12 |
| schestowitz | Maybe polite suggestions | Jan 26 22:12 |
| _Goblin | agreed fully. | Jan 26 22:13 |
| schestowitz | It reminds me of Linspire | Jan 26 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Thwn they sold out to Microsoft | Jan 26 22:13 |
| MinceR | i'm not sure giving m$ support is productive for a gnu/linux distro | Jan 26 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Patent wise | Jan 26 22:13 |
| _Goblin | I am all for proprietary moving to Ubuntu. | Jan 26 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Linspire also had MSN toolbar then | Jan 26 22:13 |
| cubezzz | blah | Jan 26 22:13 |
| MinceR | also, i'm not sure giving the .net/mono patent traop support is productive for a gnu/linux distro | Jan 26 22:13 |
| schestowitz | And other Microsoft 'wares' and [cr]apps | Jan 26 22:13 |
| _Goblin | since Windows and Mac have Photoshop (for eg) why can't Linux/Ubuntu? | Jan 26 22:13 |
| MinceR | looks like they're pretty surely headed in a direction that isn't worth going in | Jan 26 22:13 |
| _Goblin | Ive come across many people whose soul reason for dual booting windows is because of Photoshop | Jan 26 22:13 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: it's not makos or win32 | Jan 26 22:13 |
| schestowitz | It's GNU system, | Jan 26 22:14 |
| MinceR | s/aop/ap/ | Jan 26 22:14 |
| _Goblin | yes but by its nature modification/diversity is encouraged. | Jan 26 22:14 |
| _Goblin | I can't see any of the other distro's following suit so if theres a problem users can look elsewhere... | Jan 26 22:14 |
| MinceR | there are some non-monopolist search engines around | Jan 26 22:14 |
| *sebsebseb (n=3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 22:14 | |
| sebsebseb | Jan 26 22:14 | |
| oiaohm | There are many closed source 3d animation programs for Linux distribution netrual. | Jan 26 22:14 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: | Jan 26 22:14 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: | Jan 26 22:14 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: | Jan 26 22:15 |
| oiaohm | Yet adobe says it too complex to make photoshop for Linux | Jan 26 22:15 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: | Jan 26 22:15 |
| schestowitz | We're talking about Bong in Ubuntu and non-Free s/w | Jan 26 22:15 |
| MinceR | for adobe it's too complex to make a program that works properly | Jan 26 22:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: exactly (re photoshop) | Jan 26 22:15 |
| sebsebseb | just joined, but Adobe are a for profit company | Jan 26 22:15 |
| schestowitz | In case you're in need of catchup | Jan 26 22:15 |
| _Goblin | of course and I think it would be hypocritical to call for freedom of choice for the end user without giving them the option of closed source too... | Jan 26 22:15 |
| sebsebseb | they will use the Desktop Linux does not have enough market share excuse | Jan 26 22:15 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: they make it hard to use too | Jan 26 22:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | for now | Jan 26 22:15 |
| MinceR | but i say let the fanboys have their photoslop on gnu/linux if that's what's holding them back | Jan 26 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Just many menus with effects | Jan 26 22:15 |
| sebsebseb | plus I read something before about how they are probably going to have some sort of web based Photoshop soonish | Jan 26 22:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: they have had for a while | Jan 26 22:16 |
| oiaohm | So are 3d animination programs produces sebsebseb. | Jan 26 22:16 |
| schestowitz | People do courses for PS but not for GIMP, then they say GIMP is "hard" | Jan 26 22:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: http://photoshop.com | Jan 26 22:16 |
| _Goblin | Mincer: Agreed....it makes no difference to the rest of us if Photoshop has a native version. | Jan 26 22:16 |
| sebsebseb | also people can Wine Photoshop yeah | Jan 26 22:16 |
| sebsebseb | as for 3D animation well their's Blender open source yeah, and the movie industury will have their own internal programs that run on a Linux distro | Jan 26 22:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | more or less, but that doesn't really fly for production use. | Jan 26 22:16 |
| _Goblin | exactly....the users who want it are already wine'ng it on Linux. | Jan 26 22:16 |
| oiaohm | FurnaceBoy: blender is used by many production houses. Along side other 3d tools that work on Linux workstations | Jan 26 22:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | eventually we need ISVs supporting the platforms people run. When Linux has 30%, they will. | Jan 26 22:17 |
| schestowitz | Blender uses to be proprietary | Jan 26 22:17 |
| _Goblin | to offer a native version merely gives another "pro" for switching (if you are a Photoshop user) | Jan 26 22:17 |
| MinceR | afaik wine can only run it up to cs2 | Jan 26 22:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | By the time Adobe produced Photoshop for Windows, I doubt it had 20% of the graphics arts market. | Jan 26 22:17 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: remind me what ISVs mean | Jan 26 22:17 |
| schestowitz | So here's a GPL-licensed piece that can't be called "just FOSS quality" | Jan 26 22:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | Microsoft must have basically talked Adobe into supporting Windows. | Jan 26 22:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | chicken and egg. | Jan 26 22:17 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Random poll of 5 friends. We all use address bar, search page, search box, shortcuts completely differently! \o/ Choice! | Jan 26 22:17 | |
| schestowitz | Xara is another | Jan 26 22:17 |
| oiaohm | Reason FurnaceBoy Linux workstations can join to the Linux cluster they use for processing simpler. | Jan 26 22:17 |
| sebsebseb | Gimp and such needs to improve, a lot, then screw Photoshop | Jan 26 22:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: sure, but I am discussing Photoshop. | Jan 26 22:18 |
| sebsebseb | plus Gimp will have it's single window option ready at the end of December, well that's the plan | Jan 26 22:18 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Photoship needs CS 101 | Jan 26 22:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | ISV = Independent Software Vendor. | Jan 26 22:18 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: I was thinking that | Jan 26 22:18 |
| _Goblin | Gimp Im sure will benefit in the same way OpenOffice did v MS Office.... | Jan 26 22:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: right | Jan 26 22:18 |
| oiaohm | Problem here 3d guys are starting to build there own replacements to Photoshop embeded in there own tools. FurnaceBoy | Jan 26 22:18 |
| MinceR | photoshit needs to be killed with fire. | Jan 26 22:18 |
| MinceR | :> | Jan 26 22:18 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: like a small software house? | Jan 26 22:18 |
| schestowitz | Photosheeple | Jan 26 22:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I am talking about Photoshop in 2d workflows. | Jan 26 22:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: such as the huge graphics arts market | Jan 26 22:18 |
| schestowitz | Meeeeeeeeeeeh! RGB. Meeeeeeeeh | Jan 26 22:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: much bigger than 3d market | Jan 26 22:18 |
| oiaohm | 3d guys need 2d workflows FurnaceBoy | Jan 26 22:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: sure they do, but i'm not discussing that. | Jan 26 22:19 |
| _Goblin | maybe photoshop will "up its game" and offer better value for money for the end user, that could be a side effect of them approaching another platform. | Jan 26 22:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: i am talking about graphic arts, Photoshop's largest and traditional market. | Jan 26 22:19 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: Photoshop is very much part of propritary software vender lock in, and it seems that loads of poeple that have it, dont' even have a legal copy | Jan 26 22:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's now subject to Activation, which probably cut into piracy | Jan 26 22:19 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: so if they tackle Internet piracy properly well, less pirated photoshop's and more of these people will turn to open source tools? | Jan 26 22:19 |
| oiaohm | Who do you think does the textures in 3d production FurnaceBoy | Jan 26 22:19 |
| schestowitz | adobe forbids use of words like "photoshopped" bTW | Jan 26 22:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I KNOW | Jan 26 22:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: but I AM NOT TALKING about 3D production! | Jan 26 22:19 |
| schestowitz | Draconiac drug dealers is what they are with schools | Jan 26 22:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I'm talking about GRAPHIC ARTS, Photoshop's largest, and traditional BASE | Jan 26 22:19 |
| _Goblin | Makes me wonder though if the rumblings about GIMP being removed were not infact for a Mono package but instead to make way for users to have the choice of Photoshop first.... | Jan 26 22:19 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: they didn't have activation with a code? | Jan 26 22:19 |
| oiaohm | Problem for adobe if they don't port soon they will not have a market. FurnaceBoy | Jan 26 22:20 |
| schestowitz | GIMP would be happy not to restrict people's language | Jan 26 22:20 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: like Windows | Jan 26 22:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I know! | Jan 26 22:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: eventually they will port to Linux. everyone will. | Jan 26 22:20 |
| oiaohm | What will be the point FurnaceBoy | Jan 26 22:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | ??!! | Jan 26 22:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | forget it. really. | Jan 26 22:20 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: only if it has enough market share, or they sort of port by web based versions, but you said there already is one | Jan 26 22:20 |
| oiaohm | They will not be intergrate into like KOffice | Jan 26 22:20 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: via Web | Jan 26 22:20 |
| oiaohm | They will not be intergrate into the 3d workflows. | Jan 26 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Photoshop is going Web based | Jan 26 22:20 |
| schestowitz | First for few functions | Jan 26 22:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes, it's market share related , obviously. | Jan 26 22:21 |
| oiaohm | So where will they fit. | Jan 26 22:21 |
| schestowitz | Mabe Flash based | Jan 26 22:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: check http://photoshop.com | Jan 26 22:21 |
| sebsebseb | anyway these propritary software companies could start making for Windows and Wine, it woudn't take much extra | Jan 26 22:21 |
| schestowitz | for obvious reasons | Jan 26 22:21 |
| sebsebseb | wrok | Jan 26 22:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: that's a shitty angle :) | Jan 26 22:21 |
| _Goblin | I think there will always be people who refuse to use anything but the traditional proprietary packages, for those users Photoshop would be welcome and for the rest of us, well im sure we will make our own mind up if and when the time comes. | Jan 26 22:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: all the games that went that way .. it's a bad experience | Jan 26 22:21 |
| sebsebseb | native is good sure, but having loads of programs that many people want to work, working properly in Wine is also a good thing | Jan 26 22:21 |
| schestowitz | "<_Goblin> I think there will always be people ....." | Jan 26 22:21 |
| schestowitz | Not a good statement, _Goblin | Jan 26 22:21 |
| _Goblin | but it can't be disputed... | Jan 26 22:21 |
| oiaohm | Basically photoshop will fit no where in the furture work flows because they were not where the workflows were being developed. | Jan 26 22:21 |
| schestowitz | People said the same about women not voting and slavery in the extreme sense | Jan 26 22:21 |
| sebsebseb | and just working in Wine, no needing to configure Wine first | Jan 26 22:22 |
| cubezzz | bahahaha | Jan 26 22:22 |
| *schestowitz goes to the kitchen to configure wine | Jan 26 22:22 | |
| cubezzz | no doze, no wine | Jan 26 22:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: that's not going to be good enough for most commercial users. but Adobe will eventually produce native versions for Linux. | Jan 26 22:22 |
| _Goblin | we can't say for definate, but based on computing to date, the popularity of Wine and the obvious business viability of Photoshop, it would suggest there will always be people (or at least for the forseeable future) | Jan 26 22:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: the only disagreement is about WHEN | Jan 26 22:22 |
| schestowitz | I can't make wine | Jan 26 22:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: right, WINE isn't a viable answer | Jan 26 22:22 |
| _Goblin | no | Jan 26 22:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: I sent my wife out to buy some | Jan 26 22:22 |
| _Goblin | agreed | Jan 26 22:23 |
| schestowitz | roy@roy:~$ make wine | Jan 26 22:23 |
| schestowitz | make: *** No rule to make target `wine'. Stop. | Jan 26 22:23 |
| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: only if desktop Linux gains enough market share, and loads of people are still wanting Photoshop on it | Jan 26 22:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes I agreed above, of course it's market share related. but it is inevitable. | Jan 26 22:23 |
| cubezzz | you don't need photoshop, come on | Jan 26 22:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: Windows era is ending | Jan 26 22:23 |
| cubezzz | something better will be created | Jan 26 22:23 |
| schestowitz | I can't ./configure, either :-) | Jan 26 22:23 |
| oiaohm | Problem here FurnaceBoy at way things are going by the time Adobe thinks about porting photoshop no one will want it. | Jan 26 22:23 |
| sebsebseb | well there are some advantages of Windows | Jan 26 22:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: eventually yes. Photoshop is rather crappy, but it does make money. | Jan 26 22:23 |
| _Goblin | thats why I think native is better, there are people trying to get Photoshop working now. If they are dual booting only for Photoshop, then a native version can only be good for Linux, surely? | Jan 26 22:23 |
| sebsebseb | the ReactOS people know that | Jan 26 22:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: that's possible yes | Jan 26 22:23 |
| sebsebseb | ReactOS will be using Wine properly soon | Jan 26 22:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | gotta work | Jan 26 22:24 |
| *FurnaceBoy (n=FurnaceB@bas1-toronto10-1279398804.dsl.bell.ca) has left #boycottnovell ("later") | Jan 26 22:24 | |
| cubezzz | Inkscape is pretty nice | Jan 26 22:24 |
| schestowitz | I never used it | Jan 26 22:24 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber uses it | Jan 26 22:24 |
| schestowitz | She made some graphics with it for BN | Jan 26 22:24 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: sure, or a Photoshop that just works in Wine, and properly | Jan 26 22:24 |
| cubezzz | I made a CD cover with it (and the GIMP) | Jan 26 22:24 |
| _Goblin | and also let us not forget the benefit financially to Canonical who have produced arguably one of the most popular distro's. | Jan 26 22:24 |
| schestowitz | yes | Jan 26 22:25 |
| _Goblin | making money with Linux...shouldn't it be encouraged? | Jan 26 22:25 |
| oiaohm | Basically stack of things will kill photoshop. | Jan 26 22:25 |
| schestowitz | ubiquitous | Jan 26 22:25 |
| schestowitz | I'm careful with the word "popular" | Jan 26 22:25 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: or the sheeple will just pay up | Jan 26 22:25 |
| cubezzz | non programmers :) | Jan 26 22:25 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: what? | Jan 26 22:25 |
| oiaohm | digikam Kde photo manager. Removes a lot of people need for photoshop. | Jan 26 22:25 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: but i doubt anyone can really "tackle" piracy at all | Jan 26 22:25 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: not following | Jan 26 22:25 |
| sebsebseb | oh piracy | Jan 26 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Gates: "taken on a statistical bases ..." (deposition video, on "most respected s/w company) | Jan 26 22:25 |
| MinceR | 231642 < sebsebseb> MinceR: so if they tackle Internet piracy properly well, less pirated photoshop's and more of these people will turn to open source tools? | Jan 26 22:25 |
| cubezzz | doesn't matter one bit | Jan 26 22:26 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: yes turn to alternatives or just pay up | Jan 26 22:26 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Jan 26 22:26 |
| sebsebseb | ,but Photoshop is so expensive, that most home users wound't want to buy it | Jan 26 22:26 |
| cubezzz | piracy is just an excuse | Jan 26 22:26 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: no, it's like drugs | Jan 26 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Adobe let's people share it | Jan 26 22:26 |
| _Goblin | well I don't think we can argue about popular....if you were to "collect" 10 linux users, how many would be using Ubuntu? Look at the Ubuntu newsgroups, user sites et al compared to other distro's. Rightly or wrongly I'd put money on more people using Ubuntu than any other distro (in the home) | Jan 26 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Then it extorts | Jan 26 22:26 |
| schestowitz | When people get addicted | Jan 26 22:26 |
| _Goblin | hell, even I have it on 3 machines. | Jan 26 22:26 |
| oiaohm | Does Photoshop intergrate somthly into workflows or is it just a unrequired bump. | Jan 26 22:26 |
| schestowitz | It also uses these tricks in schools... we have leaked E-mails in BN | Jan 26 22:27 |
| cubezzz | don't think Ubuntu vs. Whatever | Jan 26 22:27 |
| oiaohm | unrequired bumps always go way. | Jan 26 22:27 |
| schestowitz | People buy Photosheep so that they can open their files | Jan 26 22:27 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: there are some issues with Ubuntu, and there are some people that really don't seem to get Ubuntu, they think 9.10 was meant to compete properly against Windows 7, that was the never the case | Jan 26 22:27 |
| cubezzz | think FOSS vs Proprietary | Jan 26 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Adobe is like Microsoft in that sense, sans the crimes | Jan 26 22:27 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: ,but yes it's the one that has most chance at gaining a more proper market share at the moment | Jan 26 22:27 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: why not? | Jan 26 22:27 |
| cubezzz | it's all just code | Jan 26 22:27 |
| oiaohm | Gimp and Digikam(rest of kde aps) Can open photoshop files no problems. | Jan 26 22:27 |
| schestowitz | The issue is, some thing it's "Cheap Windows" | Jan 26 22:27 |
| schestowitz | But it's better than it | Jan 26 22:28 |
| cubezzz | anything someone invents can be re-invented | Jan 26 22:28 |
| schestowitz | It's different though | Jan 26 22:28 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: True and I think the "loud" voice of complaints was a testiment to how many people are using it....just like the Windows 7 issues... | Jan 26 22:28 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Ubuntu 9.10 is not good enough to compete properly against Windows 7, and gain loads and loads of the average computer consumers | Jan 26 22:28 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: full fidelity? PSD is trick | Jan 26 22:28 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: it was never designed to compete properly against Windows 7 either, because of certain issues it has that aren't really it's fault, for example wireless and ATI graphic card issues and so on | Jan 26 22:28 |
| schestowitz | *tricky | Jan 26 22:28 |
| schestowitz | I tried other file types too | Jan 26 22:28 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: Ive found the reverse I have a Windows 7 machine sitting next to 9.10 on 4 year old hardware....you wouldnt think it. | Jan 26 22:28 |
| oiaohm | Only lockin adobe has the the pantone support. | Jan 26 22:29 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: computer consumers? | Jan 26 22:29 |
| oiaohm | But that can exist as a closed source plugin. | Jan 26 22:29 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: what are you trying to say? | Jan 26 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Computers are edible? | Jan 26 22:29 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yeah those that want everything on their computer to just work, and that's that, and don't really want to learn computer | Jan 26 22:29 |
| schestowitz | That's the point | Jan 26 22:29 |
| schestowitz | People should use software that gives them their computer | Jan 26 22:29 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: and those same people a lot of them will use social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter, so that's good that Ubuntu 10.04 will have something to target them | Jan 26 22:30 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: PSD are normal adobe standards. Fully nicely documented. | Jan 26 22:30 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: the windows 7 rig I am borrowing is current spec's...the 9.10 machine is 4 years old. To look at performance/eyecandy et al the Ubuntu machine looks the better system.... | Jan 26 22:30 |
| schestowitz | With Windows, they become tenants inside their own property | Jan 26 22:30 |
| cubezzz | I was asked to remove XP from a system the other day, they wanted Fedora 12 | Jan 26 22:30 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft....... please, Microsoft, let me boot into my own computer.... PLEASE!" | Jan 26 22:30 |
| cubezzz | frankly it ran better on F12 | Jan 26 22:30 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: well yes it depends on the hardware how good Ubuntu will be on it or not | Jan 26 22:30 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: I was talking here earlier about it and in every single function I require, Ubuntu is outperforming 7. | Jan 26 22:31 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: and then it depends on the user, and so on, which OS is better for them, problem is a lot think it's Windows, but really with some help from someone with know how, most would get on fine with Ubuntu, most people that use computers | Jan 26 22:31 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: ie photoshops lock is not fileformat. Its features and interface. | Jan 26 22:31 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Adobe is not a standaards body | Jan 26 22:31 |
| schestowitz | I have my standards too | Jan 26 22:31 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't make them open | Jan 26 22:31 |
| schestowitz | And ISO too is a farce | Jan 26 22:31 |
| schestowitz | So its OK to PDF I don't care for.. | Jan 26 22:31 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] #Ubuntu do seem to be stepping further and further away from the #Linux ideals with every commercial move, which is sad. | Jan 26 22:31 | |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: Adobe for anything that could be stored and need to be accessed long term. Adobe does open document on all there intrenals. | Jan 26 22:32 |
| schestowitz | [22:31] <_Goblin> sebsebseb: I was talking here earlier about it and in every single function I require, Ubuntu is outperforming 7. | Jan 26 22:32 |
| schestowitz | But Microsoft has better ads | Jan 26 22:32 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft wins | Jan 26 22:32 |
| schestowitz | And Apple | Jan 26 22:32 |
| schestowitz | If perception counts | Jan 26 22:32 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: Not like MS format docs that are half complete either. Adobes are fully complete. | Jan 26 22:32 |
| schestowitz | "Look..... we have cool people and photography of hardware from Foxconn!" | Jan 26 22:32 |
| _Goblin | see I would disagree.....are you forced down a proprietary route with Ubuntu? No...Do like Mono? Remove it...Don't want Gnome? Go Xfce...I don't see where these "moving away from Linux" comments are coming from. | Jan 26 22:32 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: and if you do find anything missed they will revised the information on the file format. schestowitz | Jan 26 22:33 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: in okular I can't get all the same functionality | Jan 26 22:33 |
| schestowitz | It's rat race | Jan 26 22:33 |
| schestowitz | COmments, highlights, other features of Reader(C) | Jan 26 22:33 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: well they are starting to do things that are good for the average computer consumer, but things that a lot of more experienced users aren't going to be that keen on. | Jan 26 22:33 |
| _Goblin | schestowitz: MS may have expensive ads, but not better, the best "advert" is honest held personal belief and Ubuntu gets that in droves. | Jan 26 22:34 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: changing Linux for users (non convrted) rather than changing people for Linux | Jan 26 22:34 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: releasing the standards does not mean everyone will master feature match. schestowitz | Jan 26 22:34 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: well you get propritary software with Ubuntu a bit of it, useually | Jan 26 22:34 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: uh? | Jan 26 22:34 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin:they have loads | Jan 26 22:35 |
| schestowitz | They play the "mind share" games as they call it | Jan 26 22:35 |
| schestowitz | PR of repetition | Jan 26 22:35 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: you can remove after woulds, but most are going to keep it, and a lot will start using the propritary software, such as Ubuntu One. I read that's propritary software | Jan 26 22:35 |
| schestowitz | "it was my idea" and other memes | Jan 26 22:35 |
| schestowitz | If "my idea" was to be a criminal company, then no thanks | Jan 26 22:35 |
| schestowitz | brb | Jan 26 22:35 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: But I think (as I said in an article) that we have to be realistic, Canonical requires money to pay its staff and if services like Ubuntu One are going to keep it "alive" then more power to them. If Ubuntu could pay its staff on praise and good will by users I am sure it would (and theres plenty of that) but it can't and I see nothing wrong with what I regard as a service being offered cross platform for the "good" o | Jan 26 22:37 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: well yeah I am not exactly against Ubuntu One, I just don't want to use it personalley, and think I could have something better in the default install instead | Jan 26 22:38 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: I mean they can only fit so much into a default install in to the ISO, and most of the screensavers that were rather nice and there before, have been removed starting with 9.10 :( | Jan 26 22:38 |
| sebsebseb | rather have that, then Ubuntu One | Jan 26 22:38 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: I was one of the early testers whilst I have no real use of the service, I do hope they make a go of it... | Jan 26 22:38 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: this memenu thing that is coming | Jan 26 22:39 |
| sebsebseb | Twitter and Facebook features | Jan 26 22:39 |
| sebsebseb | and such | Jan 26 22:39 |
| sebsebseb | I won't really have any proper reason to use that. also something about a music store, that's not for me | Jan 26 22:39 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: anyway I want to do Lucid properly on this computer for a week or two or something, and then I'll do Debian Testing for a bit I think | Jan 26 22:40 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: and I am doing a bit of virtual machine testing, but I might put the actasul RC on the hard disk, since download day is packed | Jan 26 22:40 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: but then you have to remember that music store could just as easily be offered by any company on the net, the fact that Canonical may do it is just another way users can, if they wish purchase music and support Canonical too. | Jan 26 22:40 |
| sebsebseb | when the final comes out | Jan 26 22:40 |
| sebsebseb | then again, I could just wait 7 hours or whatever for the ISO to download | Jan 26 22:41 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: The only concern I would have with the proprietary issue would be what DRM technology they would employ and if it had a detrimental effect on performance/operation. | Jan 26 22:41 |
| sebsebseb | I want to test, Ext3 and Ext4 with a proper install | Jan 26 22:41 |
| sebsebseb | like I did for Karmic | Jan 26 22:41 |
| sebsebseb | do Ext3 for boot up and shut down and that's about it, then run with Ext4 for a while, and well yeah Debian Testing I think after that, whilst waiting for the final of the next Mandriva or something | Jan 26 22:41 |
| sebsebseb | anyway 10.04 might be the last time I psyically install Ubuntu on to this computer | Jan 26 22:42 |
| _Goblin | I have gone back to Fedora on one of my rigs...very pleased I am to. | Jan 26 22:42 |
| sebsebseb | or maybe in the future i'll want to test btfs on here with Ubuntu or something, I mean when that's out | Jan 26 22:42 |
| sebsebseb | well virtual machines and live cd's are good sure, but for a more proper experience need to install onto a hard disk | Jan 26 22:43 |
| _Goblin | I will be going with 10.04 on some of my rigs, mainly because a/Ive never had issue with any Ubuntu upgrade and b/ its an LTS | Jan 26 22:43 |
| _Goblin | 8.04LTS was rock solid. | Jan 26 22:43 |
| _Goblin | for me. | Jan 26 22:44 |
| sebsebseb | it seems 10.04 won't offer any proper advantage, I mean stuff that isn't in other distros, that is really worth it | Jan 26 22:44 |
| _Goblin | mind you if they snip even more off the bootup and shutdown times..... | Jan 26 22:44 |
| _Goblin | 9.10 really does fly. | Jan 26 22:44 |
| sebsebseb | well not for my useage, but I got a woman who is still on 8.10 since I helped her quite a lot with Ubuntu etc | Jan 26 22:44 |
| sebsebseb | 9.04 and 9.10 would have offered her no proper advantage, but 10.04 it seems will, since she likes Facebook | Jan 26 22:45 |
| _Goblin | Im looking to replace Wolvix on my main rig since it hasn't been updated for long while....shame it was red hot... | Jan 26 22:45 |
| sebsebseb | plus 8.10 will run out of support when 10.04 comes out, or around then | Jan 26 22:45 |
| sebsebseb | she was on 8.04 on old lap top, then bought a pre installed Ubuntu Dell that came with 8.10 | Jan 26 22:46 |
| sebsebseb | lap top | Jan 26 22:46 |
| _Goblin | I may well be considering AROS on my main rig....its come along way... | Jan 26 22:46 |
| sebsebseb | AROS???? | Jan 26 22:47 |
| sebsebseb | something based on Amiga? | Jan 26 22:47 |
| _Goblin | http://aros.sourceforge.net/ | Jan 26 22:47 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: AROS Research Operating System .::. Size~: 48.77 KB | Jan 26 22:47 |
| sebsebseb | oh | Jan 26 22:47 |
| _Goblin | only because I would like to be "forced" to get involved..... | Jan 26 22:48 |
| sebsebseb | then I got a guy who, isn't fully happy with Ubuntu for some silly reasons. and he might end up on some other distro in the end, he is on 9.04 for now | Jan 26 22:48 |
| _Goblin | if its on my main rig, I have to look more to my own solutions. | Jan 26 22:48 |
| _Goblin | Im not sure what is happening at the moment but my readerbase is increasing massively since Dec 09...incomming links from Tuxmachines, Lxer, BN and others are really knocking up my readerbase...Im on a 1000 UIP a day average now. | Jan 26 22:51 |
| _Goblin | and the most popular searches that find my blog are: "Goblin Microsoft" , "Openbytes" , "Ballmer", "Linux" & "Free software" | Jan 26 22:52 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I do wonder about Ubuntu's reputation on this, Google = Search to most peeps, Anyone Else = 2nd Class Search | Jan 26 22:52 | |
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| MinceR | "2nd class search" is the least of the issues with it | Jan 26 22:57 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I also wonder if this is a desperation move by Canonical, that their play on server paid support is not going as well as hoped cash is reqd | Jan 26 22:57 | |
| ThistleWeb | yahoo may be no2, but they're well behind google | Jan 26 22:58 |
| ThistleWeb | for good or ill, google = search to a LOT of peeps | Jan 26 22:59 |
| ThistleWeb | a browser that loads up anything but google as the default search engine is making a statement | Jan 26 22:59 |
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| ThistleWeb | even linux mint have their custom google, which I hear is not as good as the regular google, but it's still google | Jan 26 23:00 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a little sign of ubuntu chanting "we're number 2" | Jan 26 23:00 |
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| MinceR | ThistleWeb: yahoo's search is just bingo in disguise | Jan 26 23:01 |
| ThistleWeb | someone on identica did have a point, it's like ubuntu is more being led by canonical with less and less consulting of the ubuntu community | Jan 26 23:01 |
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| ThistleWeb | exactly | Jan 26 23:01 |
| ThistleWeb | it's MS money | Jan 26 23:02 |
| MinceR | after adding mono apps as default and the rumors/news of dropping gimp in favor of more mono crap, this is a worrying development | Jan 26 23:02 |
| ThistleWeb | jono - peeps who care can switch easy, peeps who dont can help pay for devs | Jan 26 23:02 |
| MinceR | canonical is effectively handing over data about unsuspecting users to m$ | Jan 26 23:02 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] popey | Jan 26 23:02 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @popey that's one way of looking at it | Jan 26 23:02 | |
| jono | ThistleWeb, indeed :) | Jan 26 23:03 |
| jono | MinceR, read the announcement, there is no personal data shared | Jan 26 23:03 |
| jono | and nothing to MS | Jan 26 23:03 |
| jono | the only figure generated for the partner (Canonical) is the total amount | Jan 26 23:03 |
| ThistleWeb | yahoo search is being powered by bing | Jan 26 23:03 |
| jono | (rev) | Jan 26 23:03 |
| MinceR | jono: if someone performs a search via yahoo, the search string is necessarily sent to m$ | Jan 26 23:03 |
| ThistleWeb | when you search on yahoo, you use bing | Jan 26 23:03 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Puppy Arcade 6 Released! http://scottjarvis.com/page105.htm - Shortly to get the Openbytes review! #linux #foss #emulation | Jan 26 23:03 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: ScottJarvis.com: Puppy Arcade 6 .::. Size~: 19.34 KB | Jan 26 23:03 |
| MinceR | jono: otherwise it can't function | Jan 26 23:04 |
| ThistleWeb | a decision engine, designed to give better results to MS partners | Jan 26 23:04 |
| MinceR | search strings accumulated about a user can tell a lot about him | Jan 26 23:04 |
| jono | MinceR, unlikely | Jan 26 23:04 |
| schestowitz | The lins******* trolls are trolling identica | Jan 26 23:05 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/20127080 | Jan 26 23:05 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/20127325 | Jan 26 23:05 |
| schestowitz | ... | Jan 26 23:05 |
| ThistleWeb | jono: with all due respect, we understand it's your job to sell this decision, whether or not you agree with it | Jan 26 23:05 |
| jono | ThistleWeb, wrong | Jan 26 23:05 |
| jono | I am not here to sell it | Jan 26 23:05 |
| jono | I am here to build a community | Jan 26 23:05 |
| jono | I have spoken out about Canonical decision in the past | Jan 26 23:05 |
| ThistleWeb | perhaps "sell" was the wrong word | Jan 26 23:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ted Smith (teddks) 's status on Tuesday, 26-Jan-10 22:47:49 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.26 KB | Jan 26 23:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ted Smith (teddks) 's status on Tuesday, 26-Jan-10 22:50:43 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.23 KB | Jan 26 23:06 |
| jono | my point is: you don't like Yahoo! one click and it is changed | Jan 26 23:06 |
| jono | job done | Jan 26 23:06 |
| ThistleWeb | indeed, but those who dont use bing, with a yahoo front end to help fund linux | Jan 26 23:06 |
| MinceR | except that it will be changed for the user if he had google set | Jan 26 23:07 |
| schestowitz | It'll be kind of funny when Ubuntu users search in Firefox to find just few and negative results | Jan 26 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is doctoring its results | Jan 26 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Which IMHO should have them slapped by the law | Jan 26 23:07 |
| schestowitz | They pretend it's unbiased | Jan 26 23:07 |
| ThistleWeb | we understand canonical needs money like any other corp | Jan 26 23:07 |
| schestowitz | They should print at the bottom of pages that recommendations are also made based on their agenda | Jan 26 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Like adverts must be flagged as such | Jan 26 23:08 |
| *MinceR wonders how red hat could possibly survive without pushing mono or bingo | Jan 26 23:08 | |
| ThistleWeb | but this does mean MS money, even if it's passed through yahoo's hands to give the appearance of distance | Jan 26 23:08 |
| MinceR | must be magic | Jan 26 23:08 |
| schestowitz | I remember how angry Helios (Ken) was when his friends had him use Linspire, which redirected to Microsoft | Jan 26 23:09 |
| schestowitz | That was after their deal | Jan 26 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, can't Ubuntu make a deal with Google? | Jan 26 23:10 |
| schestowitz | And I can't see how this works with Mozilla | Jan 26 23:10 |
| schestowitz | I thought Mozilla could require packaging as-is (for Mozilla's own revenue) | Jan 26 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Unless it's forked | Jan 26 23:10 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm said something about, but IANAL | Jan 26 23:10 |
| MinceR | if the quality of the search engine doesn't matter (as it obviously doesn't matter, if they were willing to choose bingo), they might as well consider one of the search services owned by companies that happen to not be assholes | Jan 26 23:11 |
| schestowitz | http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4730/125/ | Jan 26 23:11 |
| schestowitz | http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4730/125/ ACTA Guide, Part Two: The Documents (Official and Leaked) | Jan 26 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Not parsable? | Jan 26 23:12 |
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| schestowitz | OK, I'd better prepare to post some daily links | Jan 26 23:12 |
| _Goblin | :) | Jan 26 23:13 |
| schestowitz | Nice: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/26/make-your-own-mossarium.html | Jan 26 23:13 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Make your own mossarium! Boing Boing .::. Size~: 68.03 KB | Jan 26 23:13 |
| ThistleWeb | I wonder how many Canonical decisions (bypassing the community) it'll take to consign Ubuntu to the distro that paved the way for mainstream linux adoption and lost the prize to other distros | Jan 26 23:13 |
| MinceR | i wonder how much will canonical end up screwing the community | Jan 26 23:14 |
| ThistleWeb | it may end up as a stepping stone distro, making the path for others | Jan 26 23:14 |
| ThistleWeb | losing it's community along the way | Jan 26 23:15 |
| schestowitz | zoobab: http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/25/begian-senator-propo.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29 | Jan 26 23:16 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Begian Senator proposes Hadopi-like law Boing Boing .::. Size~: 43.35 KB | Jan 26 23:16 |
| _Goblin | I always considered it that for many users anyway....as confidence in Linux increases so does the desire for more exotic distro's. | Jan 26 23:16 |
| ThistleWeb | I know Shuttleworth hadn't planned on funding it as long, but he extended it, assuming it was just on the cusp of being self sufficient and needed a lil more help over the hump | Jan 26 23:16 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: Linux was always in part about individualism | Jan 26 23:16 |
| schestowitz | That's why we keep having new distros | Jan 26 23:16 |
| ThistleWeb | I wonder if this is just a sign that theyre further from that than they'd like to be, and the deadline is looming for Mark pulling back financially | Jan 26 23:17 |
| ThistleWeb | paid support contracts on servers tend to be RH and Novell terretory | Jan 26 23:17 |
| schestowitz | zoobab: the Sarko threat spreads like communism :-) 3-strike for be | Jan 26 23:17 |
| ThistleWeb | maybe the mp3 only music service ain't helping | Jan 26 23:18 |
| _Goblin | could be, but I think it has to be considered that Ubuntu has a brandname now and chances are if someone new to Linux asks about it, Ubuntu is usually brought up. I think thats a good sign as well as a responsibility to Canonical, that whatever decisions they make they are open and willing to listen to their community. | Jan 26 23:18 |
| cubezzz | even distros have other distros :) | Jan 26 23:18 |
| ThistleWeb | I dunno, but this seems to be just the latest in a line of questionable moves by Ubuntu, that I'm starting to have second thoughts | Jan 26 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Ouch. | Jan 26 23:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2010/01/05/google-has-no-suggestions-on-what-islam-is | Jan 26 23:19 |
| MinceR | so am i | Jan 26 23:19 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Google Now Showing Suggestions for "Islam Is" | WebProNews .::. Size~: 34.46 KB | Jan 26 23:19 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: except SUSE | Jan 26 23:19 |
| ThistleWeb | it may be that they're financially fragile that they can't really afford to say no to MS money | Jan 26 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Caixa Magica even dumped OpenSUSE for Mandriva 2 years ago | Jan 26 23:20 |
| ThistleWeb | well, most Muslims disagree about that too, so you can't blame Google lol | Jan 26 23:20 |
| schestowitz | SLE* has no clones, either | Jan 26 23:20 |
| _Goblin | and if that was the case wouldn't MS Money and Canonical continuing be better than no Canonical? | Jan 26 23:20 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: the story is that GOogle uses to censor it | Jan 26 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Then came public pressure | Jan 26 23:20 |
| _Goblin | I certainly think the Linux world would be poorer without Canonical. | Jan 26 23:20 |
| ThistleWeb | they all have different ideas about what Islam is, some say it's peaceful, others say it's about killing infidels etc | Jan 26 23:21 |
| cubezzz | sure | Jan 26 23:21 |
| cubezzz | but it's not for me | Jan 26 23:21 |
| ThistleWeb | ubuntu has been a great juggernaught for linux | Jan 26 23:21 |
| MinceR | money is one thing, the influence bought with it is another. | Jan 26 23:21 |
| ThistleWeb | I just wonder how many peeps are falling over the sides as they plough on regardless | Jan 26 23:22 |
| cubezzz | juggernaut | Jan 26 23:22 |
| _Goblin | and can we honestly say that Linux over the last year would have picked up as much pace if it wasn't for them? | Jan 26 23:22 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2010/01/25/price-dates-of-first-twitter-conference-announced | Jan 26 23:22 |
| cubezzz | well, hopefully it is unstoppable :) | Jan 26 23:22 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Price, Dates Of First Twitter Conference Announced | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.38 KB | Jan 26 23:22 |
| MinceR | do you really think m$ would give money if they didn't honestly think that it will help _them_ more than the FLOSS community? | Jan 26 23:22 |
| _Goblin | I better stop since Im sounding like a Canonical shill.... | Jan 26 23:22 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: yes, it would | Jan 26 23:22 |
| _Goblin | MinceR: Agreed completely, although we don't know how desperate for cash Canonical is. | Jan 26 23:23 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: maybe foreseeing backlash | Jan 26 23:23 |
| ThistleWeb | I suspect they're closer than they'd let on to serious issues | Jan 26 23:23 |
| ThistleWeb | cash wise | Jan 26 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Which is why it's better not to make infighting | Jan 26 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu does not play with patents | Jan 26 23:23 |
| schestowitz | This one is different | Jan 26 23:23 |
| MinceR | patents are not the sole possible method of attack | Jan 26 23:24 |
| ThistleWeb | they had to cut back on free shipit cds | Jan 26 23:24 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, Tridge says so too..... | Jan 26 23:24 |
| schestowitz | He said this in LCA 2010 last week | Jan 26 23:25 |
| schestowitz | Friday or Thurs | Jan 26 23:25 |
| cubezzz | you know what's weird? There really was an MCP | Jan 26 23:25 |
| cubezzz | not just fictional :) | Jan 26 23:25 |
| schestowitz | Pearly is attacking Google | Jan 26 23:25 |
| schestowitz | This guy is disgusting | Jan 26 23:25 |
| schestowitz | PEarly gates is doing anti-GOogle tour | Jan 26 23:25 |
| schestowitz | In all sorts of publications | Jan 26 23:25 |
| cubezzz | Pearly Gates makes him sound too good | Jan 26 23:26 |
| MinceR | even though he's no better than google | Jan 26 23:26 |
| cubezzz | "Gates of Hell" would be more appropriate :) | Jan 26 23:26 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu One cloud storage service coming to Windows. http://www.ghabuntu.com/2010/01/ubuntu-one-cloud-storage-service-coming.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+luqman+%28GHABUNTU%29 | Jan 26 23:26 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu One cloud storage service coming to Windows. | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 90.98 KB | Jan 26 23:26 |
| MinceR | or "gate$" | Jan 26 23:27 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] any business decision comes down to numbers, do you gain more than you lose? Canonical know they're gonna lose peeps over this | Jan 26 23:27 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] everything else is just damage limitation, letting people vent, keeping the decisions on a switch until tomorrow, when it's hopefully forgot | Jan 26 23:28 | |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/20038211 " @kristianpaul thats not #sourceforge sucking thats the US govt sucking !gnu  !fsf  !fsfla " | Jan 26 23:32 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Justin O'Brien (threethirty) 's status on Tuesday, 26-Jan-10 00:43:23 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.64 KB | Jan 26 23:32 |
| schestowitz | That's just what I told glynmoody last week when he first found out | Jan 26 23:32 |
| schestowitz | If !withUs(nation), then block(nation) | Jan 26 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Some more regime changes are a foot | Jan 26 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Next one is Iran | Jan 26 23:33 |
| schestowitz | iRan | Jan 26 23:33 |
| schestowitz | They already did iRack | Jan 26 23:33 |
| schestowitz | /a foot/afoot/ | Jan 26 23:33 |
| MinceR | there's no such thing as a "nation" | Jan 26 23:33 |
| schestowitz | http://rawstory.com/2010/01/brown-admits-mistake-planning-iraq-invasions-fallout/ | Jan 26 23:34 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Brown admits mistake in not planning for Iraq invasions fallout | Raw Story .::. Size~: 26.74 KB | Jan 26 23:34 |
| schestowitz | http://gulfnews.com/news/region/iraq/iraq-s-crippled-infrastructure-fails-to-help-struggling-war-amputees-1.572141 | Jan 26 23:34 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: gulfnews : Iraq's crippled infrastructure fails to help struggling war amputees .::. Size~: 98.25 KB | Jan 26 23:34 |
| MinceR | it's just a fiction some people make up to turn an arbitrary group of people against other arbitrary groups of people | Jan 26 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Keeps them distracted | Jan 26 23:34 |
| MinceR | there's no actual genetic or cultural background behind it | Jan 26 23:34 |
| schestowitz | They start paying attention not to the people who screw them the most | Jan 26 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Not many people speak about the "bailout" (bankster bonusfest) anymore | Jan 26 23:35 |
| MinceR | nationalism is a mental disorder | Jan 26 23:35 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlwPQ-2d1uM | Jan 26 23:35 |
| schestowitz | You'll like the radio host there | Jan 26 23:35 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/20036652 "#sourceforge sucks, and restric software freedom http://ur1.ca/knf4 !gnu !fsf !fsfla" | Jan 26 23:36 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: cristian paul peñaranda rojas (kristianpaul) 's status on Tuesday, 26-Jan-10 00:22:34 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 9.57 KB | Jan 26 23:36 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jan 26 23:36 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: SourceForge.net: Blog .::. Size~: 73.4 KB | Jan 26 23:36 |
| schestowitz | Censors sympathisers | Jan 26 23:36 |
| schestowitz | http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/25/word-map-of-net-cens.html | Jan 26 23:36 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Word-map of net-censorship in China Boing Boing .::. Size~: 45.98 KB | Jan 26 23:36 |
| schestowitz | http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/25/intro-to-tor-how-you.html | Jan 26 23:36 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Intro to TOR: how you can be an anti-censorship activist in your sleep Boing Boing .::. Size~: 89.33 KB | Jan 26 23:36 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: indeed | Jan 26 23:37 |
| oiaohm | You keep on hearing the idea that TOR is anti-censorship | Jan 26 23:38 |
| oiaohm | Yet a lot of internet attacks and so on also route threw TOR | Jan 26 23:38 |
| oiaohm | And in a area that is heavy censored they can just make the usage of TOR illegal so not matter what you were looking up with it you are toast. | Jan 26 23:39 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: it's a tradeoff | Jan 26 23:39 |
| schestowitz | People searching for "democracy" is also an attack | Jan 26 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Not a viable tradeoff. | Jan 26 23:40 |
| schestowitz | It's an attack against the government (in China) | Jan 26 23:40 |
| MinceR | sure, the people holding power are scared shitless of freedom of speech and therefore of anonymity | Jan 26 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Flow of thought and sharing of information w/o hindrance is needed | Jan 26 23:40 |
| MinceR | Tor, when operated correctly, can provide anonymity | Jan 26 23:40 |
| MinceR | so they try hard to come up with something to demonize Tor | Jan 26 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Risk of terror~1 is far lower than cancer and car accidents | Jan 26 23:40 |
| schestowitz | To live like idiots IMHO leads to a society in ILLUSION of security | Jan 26 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Kids can stil board the plane with a bomb | Jan 26 23:41 |
| oiaohm | If you have enough monitoring points Tor does not provide anonymity. | Jan 26 23:41 |
| schestowitz | ANd people can communiate offline in a restaurant | Jan 26 23:41 |
| schestowitz | So why the F****** do people need to read MY mail? | Jan 26 23:41 |
| oiaohm | Tor cannot defeat one thing. The one thing no human can defeat. Time MinceR | Jan 26 23:41 |
| schestowitz | While th terror~1 don't even use E-mail | Jan 26 23:41 |
| zoobab | Monfils was the rapporteur in Belgian parl on EUCD | Jan 26 23:41 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: what do you mean? | Jan 26 23:41 |
| zoobab | I invited him to a conference on the EUCD | Jan 26 23:41 |
| zoobab | he never came | Jan 26 23:42 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: if you have enough routers, a given number of monitoring points will be insufficient | Jan 26 23:42 |
| zoobab | copyright lobby is behind | Jan 26 23:42 |
| schestowitz | zoobab: hmmm :-( | Jan 26 23:42 |
| oiaohm | No matter the number of routers. | Jan 26 23:42 |
| oiaohm | You cannot trick time MinceR | Jan 26 23:42 |
| zoobab | http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/25/begian-senator-propo.html | Jan 26 23:42 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Begian Senator proposes Hadopi-like law Boing Boing .::. Size~: 43.35 KB | Jan 26 23:42 |
| oiaohm | You do requests with particular time spacings MinceR | Jan 26 23:42 |
| zoobab | http://web4.ecolo.be/spip.php?article2240 | Jan 26 23:42 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Téléchargement et vie privée : Les Verts proposent la licence globale pour le téléchargement < ECOLO .::. Size~: 16.79 KB | Jan 26 23:42 |
| MinceR | but it's true that whenever your application is not really dependent on quick answers, a slower anonymizing network would be better | Jan 26 23:42 |
| zoobab | I know the Green guy | Jan 26 23:43 |
| MinceR | such as some network for email i've heard of | Jan 26 23:43 |
| oiaohm | That time singature remains even after going threw many rounters. MinceR | Jan 26 23:43 |
| MinceR | can't remember the name | Jan 26 23:43 |
| schestowitz | zoobab: .be has Green Party too? | Jan 26 23:43 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: it depends on the protocol and given enough waypoints it will be distorted | Jan 26 23:43 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: given enough traffic it won't be possible to extract | Jan 26 23:43 |
| oiaohm | More packets sent more the distort will disappear MinceR | Jan 26 23:44 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5040 | Jan 26 23:44 |
| oiaohm | Time brings it undone MinceR | Jan 26 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft gadgets go in the amnesty bin soon | Jan 26 23:44 |
| MinceR | it could be improved, but imo it's a pretty good base to start with | Jan 26 23:44 |
| oiaohm | Like if you send just one packet to the server chance of locating you is low. | Jan 26 23:44 |
| oiaohm | Problem is most requests are not just 1 packet or just 1 request MinceR | Jan 26 23:45 |
| oiaohm | And you cannot change the out going end or a lot of web servers and the like will end your session. | Jan 26 23:45 |
| MinceR | i can put a series of requests in a single packet, though | Jan 26 23:46 |
| oiaohm | Basically if someone owns the web server you are talking to and the isp you are going out of the tor protection can be rendered completely useless. | Jan 26 23:46 |
| MinceR | that's a very big 'if' | Jan 26 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Tor is annoymous with limitations. | Jan 26 23:47 |
| MinceR | also, i can combine it with other services, if i'm really paranoid | Jan 26 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Problem is even posting messages on forums that give monitor time stamp. | Jan 26 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Ie they don't have the server. | Jan 26 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Those time stamps over time can locate the person posting. | Jan 26 23:48 |
| oiaohm | Having server means less posts are required due to more correct time data. | Jan 26 23:48 |
| oiaohm | Basically time how do you defeat it MinceR | Jan 26 23:49 |
| oiaohm | Its the series of requests that is brings tor undone. | Jan 26 23:50 |
| oiaohm | Really Tor is not good enough to protect people from being hunted down. But good enough to make attackers hard to stop. | Jan 26 23:51 |
| MinceR | sure, if you assume that both the ISP and the web server was already owned | Jan 26 23:52 |
| MinceR | as if that was true in all cases | Jan 26 23:52 |
| oiaohm | No | Jan 26 23:52 |
| oiaohm | secound case web server is not owned. | Jan 26 23:52 |
| oiaohm | Post to the second correctness. | Jan 26 23:52 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Get yourself over to Slay Radio chip music, demo scene and a whole lot more! Ive been a listener for a long time! http://www.slayradio.org | Jan 26 23:52 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: :: SLAY Radio - News :: .::. Size~: 75.4 KB | Jan 26 23:52 |
| MinceR | what if i'm not using a forum or there's no second in the timestamp? | Jan 26 23:53 |
| oiaohm | How many message boards do you see that display time of post to the second MinceR | Jan 26 23:53 |
| MinceR | many | Jan 26 23:53 |
| MinceR | but i rarely post | Jan 26 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Even this irc provides to a second. | Jan 26 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Lots of things do. | Jan 26 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Basically tor to anything that does and the invistablity can be cracked. | Jan 26 23:54 |
| oiaohm | If you have the ISP. | Jan 26 23:54 |
| MinceR | if. | Jan 26 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Ie china. | Jan 26 23:54 |
| MinceR | what if i use a VPN service? | Jan 26 23:54 |
| MinceR | for example, IPREDator? | Jan 26 23:54 |
| oiaohm | time is also used to see threw VPN's. | Jan 26 23:54 |
| oiaohm | This form of time attack dates from world war 2 against radio networks MinceR | Jan 26 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Using encryption that could not be cracked. | Jan 26 23:55 |
| oiaohm | At the time. | Jan 26 23:55 |
| MinceR | i could defeat time-based attacks if i used Mixminion | Jan 26 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Not completely. | Jan 26 23:56 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem with time. | Jan 26 23:56 |
| zoobab | oiaohm: the traffic can stay within the TOR network, no need to go out to the internet | Jan 26 23:56 |
| MinceR | right, maybe hidden services can also help | Jan 26 23:57 |
| zoobab | sure | Jan 26 23:57 |
| zoobab | I am working on a piece of code to stack multiple onion VPNs | Jan 26 23:57 |
| zoobab | in order to improve speed | Jan 26 23:57 |
| zoobab | http://hackdopi.wikidot.com/ | Jan 26 23:57 |
| oiaohm | If attacker can get inforamtion out the hidden service providing time data they don't need to know where the hidden service is. | Jan 26 23:57 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: HACKDOPI .::. Size~: 14.78 KB | Jan 26 23:57 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem with time. | Jan 26 23:58 |
| MinceR | nice. | Jan 26 23:58 |
| zoobab | time data is hard to get because you need to control one node | Jan 26 23:58 |
| *Balrog (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-67-37.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 26 23:58 | |
| zoobab | the last one at least | Jan 26 23:58 |
| oiaohm | Not a node. | Jan 26 23:58 |
| oiaohm | controlling the ISP is enough. | Jan 26 23:58 |
| MinceR | trying to control a node is pretty much futile | Jan 26 23:59 |
| zoobab | no, there is encryption | Jan 26 23:59 |
| MinceR | there are too many nodes and they're chosen randomly | Jan 26 23:59 |
| oiaohm | As long as you can get data to comare. | Jan 26 23:59 |
| oiaohm | I am not breaking the encryption. | Jan 26 23:59 |
| zoobab | so what do you do with the data? | Jan 26 23:59 |
| oiaohm | With time data you don't give a rates. | Jan 26 23:59 |
| MinceR | he finds out what server i'm talking to | Jan 26 23:59 |
| oiaohm | Time data is to trace path. | Jan 26 23:59 |
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