Join us now at the IRC channel.
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| Quadrescence | schestowitz: you awake? | Dec 25 07:02 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Yeah, what's up? | Dec 25 07:03 |
| Quadrescence | I read your recent post "Winter of Code" | Dec 25 07:03 |
| Quadrescence | You're thinking about starting a company?? | Dec 25 07:04 |
| schestowitz | Maybe, but not sure yet | Dec 25 07:16 |
| schestowitz | My programs are stuck in GUI with MATLAB dependencies | Dec 25 07:17 |
| schestowitz | I am trying to port everything to octave | Dec 25 07:17 |
| schestowitz | And it's not like building another IRC clients, which is already a crowded space with many free options. This is specialised. | Dec 25 07:18 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: yes | Dec 25 07:19 |
| schestowitz | The person I did a Ph.D. with had other students start companies | Dec 25 07:20 |
| schestowitz | One did exceptionally well at it | Dec 25 07:20 |
| Quadrescence | I kind of have wanted to start a startup too, but I couldn't do it alone | Dec 25 07:20 |
| schestowitz | Gareth Edwards | Dec 25 07:20 |
| Quadrescence | specializing in mathematical software | Dec 25 07:20 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: I'll keep you in the know | Dec 25 07:20 |
| Quadrescence | I'd love that. :) | Dec 25 07:20 |
| Quadrescence | What you're doing research on sounds interesting. | Dec 25 07:20 |
| schestowitz | Startups in software need hours and not estate | Dec 25 07:20 |
| Quadrescence | Yes, indeed. | Dec 25 07:21 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: I'm uploading some paper ATM | Dec 25 07:21 |
| schestowitz | A draft | Dec 25 07:21 |
| schestowitz | Just a moment, I'll give you URLs | Dec 25 07:21 |
| schestowitz | I'm HTMLing the PDF | Dec 25 07:21 |
| schestowitz | With scripts I have | Dec 25 07:21 |
| Quadrescence | Those kind of research problems are the kinds of things I want to make software for. | Dec 25 07:21 |
| schestowitz | The added value if s/w freedom | Dec 25 07:22 |
| schestowitz | GNU+Linux+Qt(KDE)+Octave | Dec 25 07:23 |
| schestowitz | I once helped a professor whose good program was in MATLAB | Dec 25 07:23 |
| schestowitz | So he couldn't deploy cheaply in hospitals | Dec 25 07:23 |
| schestowitz | MATLAB/MathWorks supports sofwtare patent and BSA | Dec 25 07:23 |
| schestowitz | Bad bunch | Dec 25 07:23 |
| schestowitz | Cause they know they can be commoditised | Dec 25 07:23 |
| schestowitz | That Prof. called me cause I had a reputation in the medical school for being MATLAB GUIs 'expert' | Dec 25 07:24 |
| schestowitz | I had had like 30k people at the time download my paper about it | Dec 25 07:24 |
| schestowitz | And MathWorks asked me to write a book about it (I was 22) | Dec 25 07:24 |
| schestowitz | I think now might be a good time to outdo MATLAB, but maybe focusing on one area would be better | Dec 25 07:25 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: The software I'm designing right now has a goal (but not the focus) of outdoing mathematica/maple, which are more for symbolic math. But I want to be very attentive to integrating matlab-esque numerics. | Dec 25 07:27 |
| schestowitz | OK, I've just uploaded two documents | Dec 25 07:31 |
| schestowitz | Here's the second one as PDF http://schestowitz.com/Research/Cardiac/Documents/2010/Tagging-Project-2010/2010-tagging.pdf or HTML v | Dec 25 07:31 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Research/Cardiac/Documents/2010/Tagging-Project-2010/HTML/ | Dec 25 07:31 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type | Dec 25 07:31 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: 2010 RESEARCH PROPOSAL - DRAFT .::. Size~: 3.67 KB | Dec 25 07:31 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: what does the software do? | Dec 25 07:32 |
| schestowitz | I just think there's potential in offering either something specialised or general to people who use overpriced software like that | Dec 25 07:32 |
| schestowitz | The other option if consulting for those who want to get rid of MATLAB and Mathematic | Dec 25 07:33 |
| schestowitz | I've learned QtOctave and Octave quite well | Dec 25 07:33 |
| schestowitz | I know all the options in QtOctave | Dec 25 07:33 |
| schestowitz | I also installed it for some people here | Dec 25 07:33 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2010/11/30/gnu-octave-installation/ | Dec 25 07:33 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » Migrations From MATLAB to GNU Octave .::. Size~: 40.35 KB | Dec 25 07:34 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: Sad part here the closed source guys are the new guys on the block. | Dec 25 07:34 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz; It will be nice day to see them gone. | Dec 25 07:35 |
| oiaohm | Key part of all research is repeatablity and closed source gets in the way of doing that. | Dec 25 07:35 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yeah | Dec 25 07:36 |
| schestowitz | I know both MATLAB and Octave now | Dec 25 07:36 |
| schestowitz | I know MATLAB extremely well | Dec 25 07:36 |
| schestowitz | With all the advanced stuff too | Dec 25 07:36 |
| schestowitz | It's ahead of Octave | Dec 25 07:36 |
| schestowitz | But I know Octave's limitations too | Dec 25 07:37 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: The software is being designed right now. But its goal is to systematize doing mathematics on the computer. | Dec 25 07:37 |
| schestowitz | So moving people to Octave is something I can do and estimate in advance whether possible or not | Dec 25 07:37 |
| Quadrescence | numerical and symbolic mathematics | Dec 25 07:37 |
| schestowitz | If someone pays $10,000 for MATLAB licences per year, than paying a consultant to move it all to actave is worth an investment | Dec 25 07:37 |
| schestowitz | However, MathWorks has patents | Dec 25 07:38 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: Initial thought was: let's create image analysis for medical settings in affordable ways | Dec 25 07:39 |
| schestowitz | But... | Dec 25 07:39 |
| schestowitz | A broader thing is: | Dec 25 07:39 |
| schestowitz | 1. Replace Windows with GNU/Linux | Dec 25 07:39 |
| oiaohm | http://www.scilab.org/ I guess you heard of this one as well. schestowitz | Dec 25 07:39 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Home - Scilab WebSite .::. Size~: 49.37 KB | Dec 25 07:39 |
| schestowitz | 2. Replace MATLAB with QtOctave+Octave | Dec 25 07:39 |
| schestowitz | No more BSA visits | Dec 25 07:39 |
| Quadrescence | I agree with those broader goals so far :) | Dec 25 07:40 |
| schestowitz | But the thing is, how many industrial settings use MATLAB? | Dec 25 07:40 |
| schestowitz | That's what I'm not too sure of | Dec 25 07:40 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes | Dec 25 07:40 |
| schestowitz | I installed it | Dec 25 07:40 |
| schestowitz | I wrote some posts about it in my blog, too | Dec 25 07:40 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: wider market | Dec 25 07:40 |
| schestowitz | The business model is "killing proprietary software" | Dec 25 07:40 |
| schestowitz | Which I think makes it ethical | Dec 25 07:40 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: I have no numbers, but I am pretty damn sure a lot of industrial settings do use MATLAB. Most universities here in the USA teach courses such as "numerical analysis", "scientific computing", and many other more specific courses with MATLAB entirely. | Dec 25 07:41 |
| Quadrescence | Which I find absolutely despicable. | Dec 25 07:41 |
| oiaohm | Really proprietary software is rarely affordable bey everywhere. | Dec 25 07:41 |
| oiaohm | Quadrescence: So knowing Matlab is most likely not the thing that will get you the job. | Dec 25 07:41 |
| schestowitz | I was ranked #1 in the world for MATLAB contributions at one stage, so I'm hoping some reputation can help explain that I'm not some n00b trying to cull out MATLAB | Dec 25 07:42 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: yes, in universities they don't need MATLAB | Dec 25 07:42 |
| schestowitz | The students use very basic functions | Dec 25 07:42 |
| schestowitz | And they can't use MATLAB ayt home | Dec 25 07:42 |
| oiaohm | Quadrescence: because the market is flooded with Matlab users and money is getting tighter on R&D | Dec 25 07:42 |
| schestowitz | This means they have to come esp. to the labs just to do their homework | Dec 25 07:42 |
| schestowitz | I see it with the students here | Dec 25 07:43 |
| Quadrescence | oiaohm: I am emphasizing that MATLAB is basically becoming the norm. | Dec 25 07:43 |
| oiaohm | Cost of Matlab might be the difference between 1 of you having a job or not. | Dec 25 07:43 |
| oiaohm | I am a Linux users my collage course was completely taught on windows. Quadrescence | Dec 25 07:43 |
| oiaohm | My Linux Skills got me work. | Dec 25 07:43 |
| schestowitz | MATLAB did price hiks | Dec 25 07:43 |
| schestowitz | MATLAB did price hikes | Dec 25 07:43 |
| schestowitz | It pissed off the profs here | Dec 25 07:43 |
| schestowitz | They would start cheaply | Dec 25 07:43 |
| schestowitz | OIr give it 'free' to students | Dec 25 07:44 |
| schestowitz | And then double the pricing | Dec 25 07:44 |
| schestowitz | They would rebel | Dec 25 07:44 |
| Quadrescence | oiaohm: Yes, I am not disputing that. I am saying many people are being expected to know MATLAB as a basic tool. | Dec 25 07:44 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Linux skills too are handy | Dec 25 07:44 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: you want octave on Linux | Dec 25 07:44 |
| schestowitz | Not Windows | Dec 25 07:44 |
| schestowitz | So companies can get rid of Windows too | Dec 25 07:44 |
| schestowitz | Better stability, no viruses, etc | Dec 25 07:44 |
| oiaohm | octave runs faster on Linux | Dec 25 07:45 |
| schestowitz | ImageMagick works better too | Dec 25 07:45 |
| oiaohm | It truly does. | Dec 25 07:45 |
| oiaohm | Lot of other things run faster on Linux. | Dec 25 07:45 |
| schestowitz | MATLAB for Linux was improved, but the GUI is still ugly there | Dec 25 07:45 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: where are you located? | Dec 25 07:45 |
| Quadrescence | Minnesota, USA | Dec 25 07:45 |
| oiaohm | Really schestowitz with your background you can expand the open source tools. | Dec 25 07:45 |
| schestowitz | OK | Dec 25 07:45 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Ihave already | Dec 25 07:46 |
| schestowitz | People think I just do Techrights | Dec 25 07:46 |
| schestowitz | I ought to publish that interview I did for a magazine | Dec 25 07:46 |
| schestowitz | I explained there about my programming side | Dec 25 07:46 |
| oiaohm | Quadrescence: the sad part is the Unis are not aware of the damage they have done to themselves by locking into closed source tools. | Dec 25 07:47 |
| Quadrescence | Yes, that saddens me. | Dec 25 07:47 |
| oiaohm | Costs will catch up with them. | Dec 25 07:48 |
| Quadrescence | Now many universities are making it almost standard to have a copy of Mathematica or Maple, both of which are proprietary symbolic math softwares. | Dec 25 07:48 |
| oiaohm | Not like MS can afford for ever to give windows away discounted. | Dec 25 07:48 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: are you in contact with the local universities? | Dec 25 07:49 |
| oiaohm | Neither can Mathematica or Maple afford to be giving away discounted forever. | Dec 25 07:49 |
| schestowitz | Toby said he'd be interested in collab'ing | Dec 25 07:49 |
| schestowitz | ANd he's in Canada | Dec 25 07:49 |
| schestowitz | Covering UK, UK, Canada in general can be good point to start, but I don't know if Toby does numerical analysis | Dec 25 07:49 |
| schestowitz | I think he's a programmer stuck in marketing | Dec 25 07:49 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: I somewhat regularly go to the university of minnesota (a rather large uni). However, I don't have close ties with professors. | Dec 25 07:49 |
| Quadrescence | His job right now is doing PHP and stuff. | Dec 25 07:50 |
| schestowitz | Getting hold of list of MATLAB user/MathWorks clients could be handy | Dec 25 07:50 |
| schestowitz | But it's secret, obviously | Dec 25 07:50 |
| schestowitz | Companies look to cut down costs | Dec 25 07:50 |
| oiaohm | maple is one of those intresting one that someone should consider cloning the complier | Dec 25 07:51 |
| Quadrescence | Toby doesn't do numerical analysis, but he's had experience in the numerical arena definitely. | Dec 25 07:51 |
| schestowitz | You could offer them free/libre replacements | Dec 25 07:51 |
| schestowitz | But... | Dec 25 07:51 |
| schestowitz | I worry cause in Fedora 14 things didn't work smoothly | Dec 25 07:51 |
| schestowitz | They did in Kuhbuntu | Dec 25 07:51 |
| schestowitz | *Kubuntu | Dec 25 07:51 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: what langs does he do? | Dec 25 07:51 |
| schestowitz | I can do PHP based on his work on the TechrightsBot | Dec 25 07:51 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: He knows C very well, C++ I think, Java I think, some ASMs | Dec 25 07:52 |
| schestowitz | He's also good at setting up Linux VMs | Dec 25 07:52 |
| Quadrescence | I've been teaching him Lisp/Scheme | Dec 25 07:52 |
| Quadrescence | and a little Haskell | Dec 25 07:52 |
| schestowitz | Octave is written in C/C++ I think | Dec 25 07:52 |
| schestowitz | I assume so | Dec 25 07:52 |
| schestowitz | Cause the error messages imply i | Dec 25 07:52 |
| Quadrescence | C++ | Dec 25 07:52 |
| schestowitz | *it | Dec 25 07:52 |
| Quadrescence | I know someone who regularly (?) contributes to Octave. | Dec 25 07:53 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes fix are needed upstream | Dec 25 07:53 |
| schestowitz | savannah | Dec 25 07:53 |
| oiaohm | Quadrescence: Octave sections of it are still pure C | Dec 25 07:53 |
| Quadrescence | Yeah | Dec 25 07:53 |
| oiaohm | I know of guys who got into trouble for tainting the C sections with C++ with Octave | Dec 25 07:54 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: how many times did you install Octave? | Dec 25 07:54 |
| oiaohm | Without need. | Dec 25 07:54 |
| schestowitz | Someone to whom I gave Windows instructions couldn't work it out | Dec 25 07:54 |
| schestowitz | Although on another machine with Windows I installed it quite easily, qtoctave too | Dec 25 07:54 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: I've done it many times. On linux, on a Windows VM, on a Windows machine with cygwin | Dec 25 07:55 |
| schestowitz | Does it always work? | Dec 25 07:55 |
| Quadrescence | I've never had issues. | Dec 25 07:55 |
| schestowitz | I had some bad expriences in some cases | Dec 25 07:55 |
| schestowitz | Fedora 14 | Dec 25 07:55 |
| schestowitz | And Windows XP for one person | Dec 25 07:55 |
| oiaohm | cygwin you have to be careful with. | Dec 25 07:56 |
| Quadrescence | I haven't installed Octave in quite a while, however. | Dec 25 07:56 |
| schestowitz | But one could work out with what's known to be working | Dec 25 07:56 |
| oiaohm | If you can get away with mingw you stablitity is better on windows. Quadrescence | Dec 25 07:56 |
| schestowitz | I even tried older versions of octave | Dec 25 07:56 |
| schestowitz | I tried compiling two older versions from source last week | Dec 25 07:56 |
| schestowitz | At the lab | Dec 25 07:56 |
| schestowitz | Both failed | Dec 25 07:56 |
| Quadrescence | Strange... | Dec 25 07:56 |
| oiaohm | Gcc complaining head off? | Dec 25 07:56 |
| schestowitz | I fetched the missing packages, it still failed | Dec 25 07:56 |
| schestowitz | And I couldn't be bothered cause the repos would make more sense to use | Dec 25 07:57 |
| oiaohm | Not that strange to me with wine. | Dec 25 07:57 |
| oiaohm | How old schestowitz | Dec 25 07:57 |
| oiaohm | Over 1 year old. | Dec 25 07:57 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, if a company even has issues withj Octave it can also run back to MATLAB | Dec 25 07:57 |
| schestowitz | So no risk involved, it's compatible | Dec 25 07:57 |
| oiaohm | Gcc introduced a few extra defect detetions in 2010. schestowitz | Dec 25 07:57 |
| oiaohm | Result lot of prior to 2010 code gcc refuses to straight up build. | Dec 25 07:58 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: not gcc | Dec 25 07:58 |
| schestowitz | cmake | Dec 25 07:58 |
| schestowitz | with gcc | Dec 25 07:58 |
| oiaohm | So still into a gcc complier. | Dec 25 07:58 |
| schestowitz | I didn't save the i/o to file | Dec 25 07:58 |
| schestowitz | But I can reproduce when I'm back at work | Dec 25 07:58 |
| oiaohm | If it what I am think of. | Dec 25 07:59 |
| oiaohm | cmake will come back that a file did not build. | Dec 25 07:59 |
| oiaohm | And it will turn out to be correct because gcc spat the dumby over defects in code detected. | Dec 25 07:59 |
| oiaohm | Basically gcc is become more of a static anlaiser of code all the time. | Dec 25 08:00 |
| schestowitz | I don't think it's the major issue though | Dec 25 08:00 |
| schestowitz | Let me put it like this: | Dec 25 08:00 |
| schestowitz | I could just use a distro that has it packaged without conflicts | Dec 25 08:00 |
| schestowitz | Kubuntu 10.04 is one such distro | Dec 25 08:00 |
| schestowitz | Uses same packages as Ubuntu, obviously | Dec 25 08:00 |
| schestowitz | LTS | Dec 25 08:00 |
| schestowitz | Right..? | Dec 25 08:00 |
| oiaohm | I would guess debian has it as well. | Dec 25 08:01 |
| Quadrescence | Yes | Dec 25 08:01 |
| oiaohm | Kubuntu and Ubuntu repos are basically one and the same. | Dec 25 08:01 |
| Quadrescence | All Ubuntu distros use the same packages | Dec 25 08:01 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I burned Mint 10 | Dec 25 08:01 |
| schestowitz | 2 weeks ago | Dec 25 08:01 |
| Quadrescence | They are 100% the same. | Dec 25 08:01 |
| schestowitz | To test and see how it works | Dec 25 08:01 |
| schestowitz | I tried running it as VM under Fedora 15 | Dec 25 08:01 |
| schestowitz | I tried running it as VM under Fedora 14 | Dec 25 08:01 |
| Quadrescence | A ubuntu box can be turned into a kubuntu box by just installing packages | Dec 25 08:01 |
| schestowitz | It didn't succeed easily though and the Oracle RPMs of VB for F14 did not work | Dec 25 08:01 |
| schestowitz | It won't install them | Dec 25 08:01 |
| schestowitz | In Qemu/kvm it didn't work | Dec 25 08:02 |
| schestowitz | But I can experiment with it next week | Dec 25 08:02 |
| Quadrescence | I've had great success with VB for Ubuntu | Dec 25 08:02 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: yes, I know | Dec 25 08:02 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: ah okay | Dec 25 08:02 |
| oiaohm | qemu without kvm always works but slow. | Dec 25 08:02 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: but kubuntu has better qt support | Dec 25 08:02 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: By default, yes | Dec 25 08:02 |
| schestowitz | You don't want to put qtocave on Ubuntu if you can install kde-desktop or kubuntu-desktop | Dec 25 08:02 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: I would leave it for an hour to run | Dec 25 08:03 |
| schestowitz | But it wouldn't go | Dec 25 08:03 |
| Quadrescence | Yes, yes. I'm just saying both distros are essentially the same, it's just a matter of what's installed by default. | Dec 25 08:03 |
| oiaohm | kvm depends on a processor feature. schestowitz | Dec 25 08:03 |
| schestowitz | I made a large VM image | Dec 25 08:03 |
| schestowitz | And no GUI | Dec 25 08:03 |
| schestowitz | Which I hted | Dec 25 08:03 |
| schestowitz | Used the Feodra wiki | Dec 25 08:03 |
| oiaohm | Virtualbox on debian I have had trouble with from time to time as well. | Dec 25 08:03 |
| schestowitz | And while installing it would sort of get stuck and later complain | Dec 25 08:04 |
| schestowitz | I have some boxes around here that I can test this stuff on | Dec 25 08:04 |
| schestowitz | My friene was gonna throw two old PCs out and I told him to keep them | Dec 25 08:04 |
| schestowitz | *friend | Dec 25 08:04 |
| oiaohm | They could be too old for kvm | Dec 25 08:05 |
| oiaohm | One of the most dependable but annoying is xen. | Dec 25 08:05 |
| oiaohm | http://libvirt.org/ Know about this and its front ends. schestowitz | Dec 25 08:08 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: libvirt: The virtualization API .::. Size~: 5.31 KB | Dec 25 08:08 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Dec 25 08:14 |
| schestowitz | But I haven't played around with it yet | Dec 25 08:14 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: stick around, I want to speak to Toby when he's back | Dec 25 08:18 |
| Quadrescence | I'm always lurking here :) | Dec 25 08:18 |
| schestowitz | MATLAB is almost a billion-dollar market | Dec 25 08:18 |
| schestowitz | And it can be replaced with Free software in most cases | Dec 25 08:19 |
| *schestowitz off to the gym, bbl | Dec 25 08:20 | |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: do you have Toby's contacts? | Dec 25 10:43 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: I have his email. | Dec 25 10:46 |
| schestowitz | I'm asking to be sure you know each other | Dec 25 10:47 |
| Quadrescence | yes, we certainly do | Dec 25 10:47 |
| schestowitz | Cause it's good to have company (as in group) that's not a bunch of strangers with totally different skills | Dec 25 10:47 |
| Quadrescence | we talk regularly | Dec 25 10:47 |
| Quadrescence | just about every day :) | Dec 25 10:47 |
| schestowitz | I'm currently checking about VC | Dec 25 10:47 |
| schestowitz | That's why I said nothing about it since last month | Dec 25 10:48 |
| schestowitz | When he's around the channel we'll discuss this. | Dec 25 10:48 |
| Quadrescence | You know he's away for a while, yes? | Dec 25 10:49 |
| schestowitz | Cause my existing contract is till Feb. and then I can get out | Dec 25 10:49 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: Australia? | Dec 25 10:49 |
| Quadrescence | He's off to Brazil right now :) | Dec 25 10:49 |
| Quadrescence | as a sort of vacation of course | Dec 25 10:49 |
| schestowitz | Ah, land of Free software | Dec 25 10:49 |
| Quadrescence | hehe | Dec 25 10:49 |
| schestowitz | He didn't say it would be Brazil | Dec 25 10:50 |
| schestowitz | I thought he went home to .au | Dec 25 10:50 |
| schestowitz | Where oiaohm is in | Dec 25 10:50 |
| schestowitz | Legal threats over leak: | Dec 25 11:02 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/OOXML-Documentation-ISO-Concerned?category=13447 | Dec 25 11:02 |
| schestowitz | "Brown goes on to say that "the boobies have even been so good as to boast about the bandwidth requirements their crimes have occasioned" and ends with the words, "Even now, I can hear those Geneva lawyers licking their lips over this one..." Boycott Novell webmaster Roy Schestovitz is not fazed by the possible legalities. He adds, "Feel free to pass around (or even ridicule) those ~60 megabytes of lock-in, which Microsoft | Dec 25 11:02 |
| schestowitz | won't let you see." He is not alone in this opinion: the numerous ongoing updates are tagged with the authors’ names. " | Dec 25 11:02 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: OOXML Documentation: ISO Concerned - Linux Magazine Online .::. Size~: 48.08 KB | Dec 25 11:02 |
| schestowitz | They couldn't even spell my name right | Dec 25 11:02 |
| schestowitz | "Alex Brown increasingly looks like a Microsoft puppet posing as an impartial ISO official" | Dec 25 11:04 |
| *schestowitz experiments with GUI debugging options in qtoctave | Dec 25 11:12 | |
| schestowitz | plotmatrix (randn (100, 3), 'g+') | Dec 25 11:24 |
| schestowitz | Nice | Dec 25 11:24 |
| oiaohm | Now what was I wanted for. schestowitz | Dec 25 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Legally by Australian law the leaking source is the one possibley breakin the law. schestowitz | Dec 25 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Ie hosting leaked information here is not a crime. | Dec 25 11:36 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: have you received a formal take down request? | Dec 25 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Rules of safe harbour acting in good faith cannot be punished. | Dec 25 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Also you have made no secret that you have the docs. schestowitz | Dec 25 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Question I also have from a legal point of view is how long you had the documents and they knew and how long have they failed to act. | Dec 25 11:42 |
| schestowitz | They didn't act | Dec 25 11:48 |
| schestowitz | It was a veiled threat from Microsoft Brown | Dec 25 11:48 |
| schestowitz | [11:45] <oiaohm> Still around. | Dec 25 11:48 |
| schestowitz | [11:46] <oiaohm> Boycott Novell webmaster Roy Schestovitz is not fazed by the possible legalities. He adds, "Feel free to pass around (or even ridicule) those ~60 megabytes of lock-in, which Microsoft won't let you see." | Dec 25 11:48 |
| schestowitz | [11:46] <oiaohm> That quote there is risky to say the least. | Dec 25 11:48 |
| schestowitz | [11:47] <schestowitz> At the time | Dec 25 11:48 |
| schestowitz | You have to remember the circumstance at the time | Dec 25 11:48 |
| schestowitz | ISO was occupied by cronies | Dec 25 11:48 |
| schestowitz | Still is | Dec 25 11:48 |
| schestowitz | And it hid an 'open' standard | Dec 25 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Later made it public IIRC | Dec 25 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Or something like that | Dec 25 11:49 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://techrights.org/2010/12/25/memories-of-alex-brown/ | Dec 25 11:50 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Alex Brown: The ‘Joe Lieberman’ of Microsoft | Techrights .::. Size~: 92.59 KB | Dec 25 11:50 |
| oiaohm | So if they never sent you a forumal take down notice listing what was in breach but only sent you a threat they have screwed up. schestowitz | Dec 25 11:50 |
| schestowitz | They didn't | Dec 25 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Nobody did | Dec 25 11:51 |
| oiaohm | Exactly. | Dec 25 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Alex Brown who's Microsoft puppet made threats | Dec 25 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Very disgusting ones | Dec 25 11:51 |
| schestowitz | He was told off for it | Dec 25 11:51 |
| oiaohm | Safe harbour rules. You hare entiled to believe that your sources aquired the information legally. | Dec 25 11:51 |
| schestowitz | BTW | Dec 25 11:51 |
| schestowitz | It was leaked | Dec 25 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Someone from the inside who knew of corruption | Dec 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | And there's sometimes protection for that type of thing | Dec 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Like when Software Strategy doc from the EU was leaked | Dec 25 11:52 |
| oiaohm | Even leaked if the person was the author of the documents is in side there right as the copyright holder to give you a copy. | Dec 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | To Wikileaks in fact | Dec 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | copyright is a censorship tool | Dec 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Here you have a 'public' 'standard' | Dec 25 11:52 |
| oiaohm | To use copyright you have to prove. | Dec 25 11:52 |
| schestowitz | And they use copyright badly | Dec 25 11:53 |
| oiaohm | That the author was not the leak. | Dec 25 11:53 |
| oiaohm | So it come threw a third party? | Dec 25 11:53 |
| schestowitz | Can't tell | Dec 25 11:54 |
| schestowitz | It's a wikileaks leak | Dec 25 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Ie going to wikileaks first adds a complexity. | Dec 25 11:54 |
| schestowitz | No need for PM, oiaohm | Dec 25 11:56 |
| schestowitz | [11:55] <oiaohm> This is off main channel for a reason. Third party complexity is if only wikileaks was giving the right to host by the releasing person and they can present the releasing person saying that you have trouble. | Dec 25 11:56 |
| schestowitz | We don't do private stuff | Dec 25 11:56 |
| oiaohm | This case it effects a third party. | Dec 25 11:56 |
| schestowitz | [11:56] <oiaohm> But wikileaks also will have trouble. | Dec 25 11:56 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Dec 25 11:56 |
| schestowitz | Cause it's 2+ eyars ago | Dec 25 11:56 |
| schestowitz | And ISO never said a thing] | Dec 25 11:56 |
| schestowitz | Alex is not ISO | Dec 25 11:56 |
| schestowitz | Alex is a puppet for Microsoft | Dec 25 11:57 |
| oiaohm | Hmm | Dec 25 11:57 |
| schestowitz | ISO is Swiss | Dec 25 11:57 |
| oiaohm | What we need is a documented proff they knew of the documents in that time. | Dec 25 11:57 |
| schestowitz | Alex is in the UK | Dec 25 11:57 |
| oiaohm | And did nothing. | Dec 25 11:57 |
| oiaohm | That basically voids all attacks. You cannot have your cake and eat it to. | Dec 25 11:57 |
| oiaohm | Ie the leaked documents. | Dec 25 11:58 |
| oiaohm | I don't see how they could not have known about them. | Dec 25 11:58 |
| schestowitz | They had bigger trouble | Dec 25 11:58 |
| schestowitz | ISO reputation | Dec 25 11:58 |
| schestowitz | And no money was made with leaks | Dec 25 11:58 |
| schestowitz | They can't claim financial damage, either, you see... | Dec 25 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Mostly you are safe. | Dec 25 11:59 |
| schestowitz | But the point is, leaking bad faith and behaviour is mostly unprotected | Dec 25 11:59 |
| schestowitz | And that's why we need to help wikileaks | Dec 25 11:59 |
| schestowitz | Law reforms.. | Dec 25 12:00 |
| schestowitz | Aussie did not convict Assange | Dec 25 12:00 |
| oiaohm | You need to make 3 major statements on this. | Dec 25 12:00 |
| schestowitz | But he moved to Sweden | Dec 25 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Number 1 you are hosting the files in good faith. | Dec 25 12:00 |
| schestowitz | Why did Julian go to the UK after Sweden and not UAustralia | Dec 25 12:00 |
| schestowitz | I mean, the UK legal system is atrocious, why did he land there? | Dec 25 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Number 2 you never recieved any contact from the ISO saying to destroy them. | Dec 25 12:00 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I wasn't hosting the files | Dec 25 12:01 |
| schestowitz | It was in mirrors | Dec 25 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Set up on hosting services | Dec 25 12:01 |
| schestowitz | That's where the files were mostly fetched from | Dec 25 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Hmm | Dec 25 12:01 |
| oiaohm | The other thing most of those documents I saw lack confidental branding. | Dec 25 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, the reason I made a post about it is wikileaks | Dec 25 12:02 |
| schestowitz | They are gonna get whacked by Bank of AMerica | Dec 25 12:02 |
| schestowitz | And the latter can try to use copyrights | Dec 25 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Remember: | Dec 25 12:02 |
| schestowitz | US govt. doesn't have copyright on cable | Dec 25 12:02 |
| schestowitz | BoA has the whole /commercial/ confidentiality thing | Dec 25 12:03 |
| schestowitz | And they have deep pockers | Dec 25 12:03 |
| oiaohm | Really they do have copyright on the cable. | Dec 25 12:03 |
| schestowitz | And they have deep pockets | Dec 25 12:03 |
| oiaohm | We cannot claim the cables as our own. | Dec 25 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Who paid for them? | Dec 25 12:03 |
| schestowitz | The public | Dec 25 12:03 |
| oiaohm | Then we breach the copyright on the usa cables | Dec 25 12:03 |
| oiaohm | copyright has limited powers. Fair uses is only a defence. | Dec 25 12:04 |
| oiaohm | copyright is about damages. Pirating software you are reducing sales so causing damages. | Dec 25 12:04 |
| oiaohm | copyright is not intended to stop documents from being published. | Dec 25 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Other major point is why is the ISO acting now. Is there something else they don't want released. schestowitz | Dec 25 12:06 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: or have we missed something important in those documents. | Dec 25 12:07 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: I am sorry to say I feared this coming. Hmm do you have any donation systems. You can bet they will try to target those next. | Dec 25 12:12 |
| *schestowitz back from kitchen | Dec 25 12:13 | |
| oiaohm | they will most likely avoid legal action at any cost. Since legal action opens up counter suit possiblities. | Dec 25 12:14 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: target who? | Dec 25 12:14 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: you realise this is history, right? | Dec 25 12:14 |
| schestowitz | 2008 | Dec 25 12:14 |
| schestowitz | Maybe you wrongly think it's news | Dec 25 12:15 |
| schestowitz | We're in 2011 almost | Dec 25 12:15 |
| oiaohm | I am thinking you have been a thorn in there side. | Dec 25 12:15 |
| schestowitz | Ages ago | Dec 25 12:15 |
| oiaohm | So now they are going to try to shut you down and they will not care that what they are using in from 2008 | Dec 25 12:15 |
| schestowitz | I don't have new leaks on them | Dec 25 12:15 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: no, you missed my point | Dec 25 12:16 |
| schestowitz | Nothing happened since then | Dec 25 12:16 |
| oiaohm | I am not missing your point. | Dec 25 12:16 |
| schestowitz | THis is like a history lesson | Dec 25 12:16 |
| oiaohm | The successful use of Mastercard and others against like file download sites. | Dec 25 12:17 |
| schestowitz | Not related | Dec 25 12:17 |
| schestowitz | That's a wikileaks issue (new) | Dec 25 12:17 |
| oiaohm | I will not be supprised if in the near future they will try attacking you. | Dec 25 12:17 |
| schestowitz | Nobody is suing | Dec 25 12:17 |
| schestowitz | But... | Dec 25 12:17 |
| schestowitz | BoA might try to use Wikileaks like Baer once tried | Dec 25 12:18 |
| oiaohm | far backwards they can make the mastercard and other items work. | Dec 25 12:18 |
| schestowitz | mastercard and visa are close to BoA | Dec 25 12:18 |
| schestowitz | Almost joined by the hip | Dec 25 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Up until the wikileaks mess lot of people did not think you could use mastercard and visa as a cut off supply system. | Dec 25 12:19 |
| schestowitz | And DNS | Dec 25 12:19 |
| oiaohm | I have not sean a donation link on your site. But if you have one watch that it stays working. | Dec 25 12:19 |
| schestowitz | Although EveryDNS blamed "ddos" | Dec 25 12:20 |
| schestowitz | Amazon and Apple censored | Dec 25 12:20 |
| oiaohm | The iso leaks they are highly unlikely to ever want to go to court. | Dec 25 12:20 |
| oiaohm | Simple reason the leaks document a lot of things that might be criminal actions. | Dec 25 12:20 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/donate/ | Dec 25 12:20 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Donate | Techrights .::. Size~: 73.39 KB | Dec 25 12:20 |
| oiaohm | But cutting off money on the other hand not requiring to go to court. | Dec 25 12:21 |
| oiaohm | I would not put past them. | Dec 25 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Yes the foundation under our feet has moved. And we have to be aware of that fact. | Dec 25 12:21 |
| schestowitz | For wikileaks it's an issue | Dec 25 12:22 |
| schestowitz | But they carry on | Dec 25 12:22 |
| schestowitz | and flattr helps pay them, too | Dec 25 12:22 |
| oiaohm | I would suggest broading you payment systems. | Dec 25 12:22 |
| oiaohm | This is just prep work basically being a few steps ahead. | Dec 25 12:23 |
| oiaohm | I would also not put it past MS to let a leak go then try to use it to shut you and others down. schestowitz | Dec 25 12:23 |
| schestowitz | "Visual Automation Ltd. was formed in 1995 and is wholly owned by the University of Manchester through its intellectual property management company UMIP Ltd." | Dec 25 12:25 |
| schestowitz | BTW | Dec 25 12:25 |
| schestowitz | That's the company created by a former person following a similar route to mine | Dec 25 12:25 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: no | Dec 25 12:26 |
| schestowitz | It's old news | Dec 25 12:26 |
| schestowitz | About OOXML | Dec 25 12:26 |
| schestowitz | You're making something out of nothing or at least something that's historical | Dec 25 12:26 |
| oiaohm | I believing in being ready. | Dec 25 12:26 |
| oiaohm | I don't trust MS to play fair. | Dec 25 12:27 |
| oiaohm | There is a lot to learn from how wikileaks was attacked. | Dec 25 12:28 |
| oiaohm | Like don't depend just on payment systems from the USA. | Dec 25 12:28 |
| schestowitz | http://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/business/spinout/kestra/ "In April 1999 Kestra was sold to US company CyberOptics Corporation for approx. £7 million." | Dec 25 12:29 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Kestra (School of Computer Science - The University of Manchester) .::. Size~: 14.53 KB | Dec 25 12:29 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I know, but it's a side issue | Dec 25 12:29 |
| schestowitz | I brought that up only cause of that xmas post | Dec 25 12:29 |
| schestowitz | To remind people we too get attacked | Dec 25 12:30 |
| oiaohm | And from reading it I was reminded as well. | Dec 25 12:30 |
| schestowitz | http://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/business/spinout/transitive/ | Dec 25 12:30 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Transitive (School of Computer Science - The University of Manchester) .::. Size~: 15.86 KB | Dec 25 12:30 |
| schestowitz | I knew some people from this one.. | Dec 25 12:30 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, but it's old news | Dec 25 12:31 |
| schestowitz | No need debating it much | Dec 25 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Really we should document how wikileaks was attacked | Dec 25 12:31 |
| schestowitz | I'm currently checking VC stuff | Dec 25 12:31 |
| schestowitz | Tomorrow I'll get back to doing posts | Dec 25 12:31 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: not really, simply because others have done it | Dec 25 12:31 |
| oiaohm | And the counter methods to reduce risk of damage. | Dec 25 12:31 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: many people look and write about wikileaks this month | Dec 25 12:32 |
| schestowitz | I didn't do any posts about it | Dec 25 12:32 |
| schestowitz | I referred to cables | Dec 25 12:32 |
| schestowitz | And sometimes I mentioned it in my personal blog or some sentence | Dec 25 12:32 |
| oiaohm | Most did reports on there attacks not how to counter them. | Dec 25 12:32 |
| schestowitz | It's already well covered by other sites that I can simply link to | Dec 25 12:32 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: some reported on which services to avoid | Dec 25 12:32 |
| schestowitz | I also talked about it in techbytes | Dec 25 12:33 |
| schestowitz | Like ep. 20 or so | Dec 25 12:33 |
| schestowitz | How they should distribute, use encryption, free software (no copyright as weapon to call them "pirates") | Dec 25 12:33 |
| oiaohm | clubcompy hmm | Dec 25 12:34 |
| oiaohm | That is worrying. | Dec 25 12:34 |
| oiaohm | Looks like its a pure online thing. | Dec 25 12:34 |
| schestowitz | WHat is? | Dec 25 12:38 |
| schestowitz | clubcompy? | Dec 25 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Hmm now were did I pick this link up from. | Dec 25 12:39 |
| oiaohm | http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/12/25/0257259/A-Real-World-HTML-5-Benchmark Ok slashdot | Dec 25 12:39 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: A Real World HTML 5 Benchmark - Slashdot .::. Size~: 135.98 KB | Dec 25 12:39 |
| oiaohm | I thought it was out of the irc channel here for some reason sorry schestowitz | Dec 25 12:40 |
| oiaohm | Basically clubcompy is teaching kids old school basic. | Dec 25 12:40 |
| oiaohm | In a online form. | Dec 25 12:40 |
| oiaohm | Really I see this as worring. | Dec 25 12:40 |
| oiaohm | We need basic gone. | Dec 25 12:40 |
| schestowitz | like w3schools? | Dec 25 12:40 |
| *schestowitz looks | Dec 25 12:40 | |
| oiaohm | No the programs run threw there site alone | Dec 25 12:41 |
| oiaohm | Yes cloud evil. schestowitz | Dec 25 12:41 |
| schestowitz | https://clubcompy.com/rwBench.jsp | Dec 25 12:41 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: ClubCompy » Real-World Browser Benchmark .::. Size~: 27.17 KB | Dec 25 12:41 |
| oiaohm | https://clubcompy.com/tos.jsp?ft=1293263570000 Yep there Terms of Service sux. | Dec 25 12:43 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: ClubCompy.com Terms of Service .::. Size~: 9.78 KB | Dec 25 12:43 |
| oiaohm | Basically the realworld benchmark thing is a good self advertisement. schestowitz | Dec 25 12:44 |
| MinceR | http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs032.snc6/166199_10100635497494741_2033402_74650482_550603_n.jpg | Dec 25 12:49 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Dec 25 12:49 |
| oiaohm | Catch here MinceR Doc and Prostitue you get to choose if you are aware enough what one gets to touch you junk. | Dec 25 12:52 |
| schestowitz | Just created http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Portugal | Dec 25 12:53 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Portugal - Techrights .::. Size~: 15.4 KB | Dec 25 12:53 |
| schestowitz | Also new: http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Spain | Dec 25 13:00 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Spain - Techrights .::. Size~: 13.53 KB | Dec 25 13:00 |
| schestowitz | I'm trying to organise the site rather than just adding new stories | Dec 25 13:00 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Hungary | Dec 25 13:04 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Hungary - Techrights .::. Size~: 13.55 KB | Dec 25 13:04 |
| oiaohm | http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/3918311/Yes-Virginia-There-Is-a-Santa-Claus-Google.htm Do you know this author. schestowitz | Dec 25 13:04 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Yes, Virginia, There Is a Santa Claus: Google! — Datamation.com .::. Size~: 80.77 KB | Dec 25 13:04 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Dec 25 13:05 |
| schestowitz | Elgan | Dec 25 13:05 |
| schestowitz | He calls himself a WIndows fanboy IIRC | Dec 25 13:05 |
| *schestowitz gets sleepy, goes get coffeee | Dec 25 13:07 | |
| oiaohm | Suspected so. | Dec 25 13:07 |
| schestowitz | slept 7 hours last night!! | Dec 25 13:07 |
| schestowitz | Far more than usual :-) | Dec 25 13:07 |
| oiaohm | That looked nice by the way its written has nasty under tones. | Dec 25 13:07 |
| schestowitz | What was? | Dec 25 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Oh, TSA | Dec 25 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Oh, TFA | Dec 25 13:12 |
| schestowitz | I didn't read it | Dec 25 13:12 |
| schestowitz | I used to write for that site BTW | Dec 25 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Datamation | Dec 25 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: I've looked into funding from Manhester University and it looks unlikely because they fund business which deals with direct output of research | Dec 25 13:13 |
| schestowitz | If we were to start a services-based company (I need to check further, I'll also have Toby read the log), then funding must come from elsewhere to start it off | Dec 25 13:13 |
| schestowitz | I'll write more about it when Toby is here, even if that means when he's back to Canada next month | Dec 25 13:14 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: next week I can speak about those references from Manchester, a presentation to be given soon (on the subject that embodies my research), and maybe demonstrate some of my latest work | Dec 25 13:21 |
| schestowitz | (which now involves running and recording (in video) experiments that are run to help improve the tracking while also measuring some items/properties of interest.) | Dec 25 13:21 |
| schestowitz | I'm hoping to get some 'back' (support) in case I leave academia aside and start a company, it's not safe to walk alone and it'll be good to have each other as contingencies | Dec 25 13:22 |
| schestowitz | E.g. if one of us gets many clients, then we can fly over to help where there's deployment opportunity... then again, I need to research this more | Dec 25 13:22 |
| schestowitz | Like I said, some other Ph.D graduates of my supervisor started their own companies and did well for themselves this way | Dec 25 13:23 |
| schestowitz | Having you and Toby with the right skills and already knowing each other sounds like a good thing, esp. now that companies look for s/w to get rid of (like MATLAB) to cut costs | Dec 25 13:23 |
| schestowitz | I see people here asking me to help them move to Free software (Octave) and some moving to Linux | Dec 25 13:24 |
| schestowitz | So surely some of them would pay for it | Dec 25 13:24 |
| schestowitz | I met a friend this morning and spoke to him for about an hour | Dec 25 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Particularly when you concider the long term savings. schestowitz | Dec 25 13:26 |
| schestowitz | His doubt is only to do with whether I have better ways to use my time | Dec 25 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Lot of maths stuff is reused over and over again. | Dec 25 13:27 |
| schestowitz | But I reckon if there's not many clients I can carry on with techrights | Dec 25 13:27 |
| schestowitz | Consulting is not a 9-5 job | Dec 25 13:27 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes | Dec 25 13:27 |
| schestowitz | ANd MATLAB licences got more expensives | Dec 25 13:27 |
| schestowitz | It's like Oracle DBs | Dec 25 13:28 |
| schestowitz | They lock your data | Dec 25 13:28 |
| schestowitz | I'm very good at MATLAB, so I can code around the incompats for them | Dec 25 13:28 |
| schestowitz | Basically tweaking and deploying | Dec 25 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Even if there is too much for you. There is always a chance you can meet other people along the way who need the work. | Dec 25 13:28 |
| schestowitz | But Octave lacks JIT | Dec 25 13:28 |
| schestowitz | We can always add more machines (FOSS stack) at the cost of one MATLAB licence | Dec 25 13:28 |
| oiaohm | JIT in what language. | Dec 25 13:29 |
| schestowitz | I just don't think Toby has MATLAB experience | Dec 25 13:29 |
| schestowitz | I think Quadrescence has it | Dec 25 13:29 |
| schestowitz | But he can code in C++ and patch Otave | Dec 25 13:29 |
| schestowitz | And a friend of mine in the UK started Sirius IT | Dec 25 13:29 |
| schestowitz | They do consulting around FOSS, very succcessful | Dec 25 13:29 |
| schestowitz | Some of their revenue they give to projects like KDE | Dec 25 13:30 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: MATLAB syntax | Dec 25 13:30 |
| schestowitz | You can optimise in ad hoc ways | Dec 25 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Like loop optimisations | Dec 25 13:30 |
| schestowitz | If people don't know how to vectorise things, then too there's room for improvement behind the scenes | Dec 25 13:30 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Toby has the advantage is being close to Australia too | Dec 25 13:31 |
| schestowitz | So it just happens that we have people in UK, US, AU, and CA | Dec 25 13:31 |
| schestowitz | *IF* | Dec 25 13:31 |
| schestowitz | I reckon he'll say yes cause he asked me to keep him in the loop | Dec 25 13:32 |
| schestowitz | I think he's in marketing now but wanting to go back to pure IT | Dec 25 13:32 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence seems to be away | Dec 25 13:32 |
| schestowitz | Otherwise he would talk. | Dec 25 13:32 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: did you code any project? | Dec 25 13:33 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: Normally not. | Dec 25 13:33 |
| oiaohm | I do solutions for clients. | Dec 25 13:33 |
| schestowitz | I know you said you're an admin type, but did you write and publish a program? | Dec 25 13:33 |
| oiaohm | But I personally hate coding. | Dec 25 13:33 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: so does tessier | Dec 25 13:33 |
| schestowitz | As I understand it, he services clients like you do | Dec 25 13:33 |
| schestowitz | But under a boss | Dec 25 13:33 |
| schestowitz | He wants to do it independenly | Dec 25 13:34 |
| schestowitz | So he has this new site | Dec 25 13:34 |
| schestowitz | He's a VM and Asterisk person I think | Dec 25 13:34 |
| schestowitz | Linux oriented | Dec 25 13:34 |
| oiaohm | I set myself up independantly due to lack of work from 1 boss | Dec 25 13:34 |
| oiaohm | But that grew. | Dec 25 13:34 |
| schestowitz | The trouble is building up reputation and getting clients to recommend you to the next client | Dec 25 13:34 |
| oiaohm | I have advice | Dec 25 13:34 |
| oiaohm | Get friendly with an accountant. | Dec 25 13:35 |
| oiaohm | And there staff. | Dec 25 13:35 |
| schestowitz | Cause the type of startup I have in mind is not so much to do with coding our own | Dec 25 13:35 |
| oiaohm | They are some of the best refers I get. | Dec 25 13:35 |
| schestowitz | Rather, deploying and then testing and tweaking code | Dec 25 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Ie they know the ones who will pay there bills and will not. | Dec 25 13:35 |
| schestowitz | So one needs to know the code and be aware of the programs | Dec 25 13:35 |
| schestowitz | I spent a decade with this stuff | Dec 25 13:35 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: do you have a registered company? | Dec 25 13:36 |
| schestowitz | For consulting with registry for tax purposes? | Dec 25 13:36 |
| oiaohm | In my own name yes. | Dec 25 13:36 |
| schestowitz | Got a site? | Dec 25 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Not at this stage. | Dec 25 13:36 |
| schestowitz | OK | Dec 25 13:36 |
| oiaohm | My work is all locally sourced. | Dec 25 13:36 |
| schestowitz | What's the service you offer? | Dec 25 13:37 |
| schestowitz | Surely you sell skill, i.e. service | Dec 25 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Ok 400 km radus locally sourced. | Dec 25 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Its a mixture of stuff. Network adminstration. System design. | Dec 25 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Training of staff that I find fun. | Dec 25 13:37 |
| schestowitz | Oh, that... | Dec 25 13:38 |
| schestowitz | Do you present well? | Dec 25 13:38 |
| schestowitz | IIRC you worried about your comms skills | Dec 25 13:38 |
| oiaohm | My clients understand my limits. | Dec 25 13:38 |
| oiaohm | They have had bad IT officers before me. | Dec 25 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Startup is a risky thing in some case. But for software services the initial investment is zero almost. | Dec 25 13:39 |
| schestowitz | In your case, you don't even need to pay for site hosting | Dec 25 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Not buying shop investory | Dec 25 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Or office on lease | Dec 25 13:39 |
| oiaohm | Yep a buy on demard. | Dec 25 13:39 |
| oiaohm | Biggest cost is mobile phones. | Dec 25 13:39 |
| oiaohm | Yes I have a habit of destroying them. | Dec 25 13:40 |
| schestowitz | That's what I'm sniffing about at the moment | Dec 25 13:40 |
| schestowitz | Worst case if you get little business and spend time on other matters | Dec 25 13:40 |
| oiaohm | Service Level Agreements. | Dec 25 13:40 |
| oiaohm | Make up my base level of pay. | Dec 25 13:40 |
| oiaohm | So much per month even if I do nothing. | Dec 25 13:40 |
| schestowitz | University of Manchester incubator is not needed here, there is a science park near the University | Dec 25 13:41 |
| schestowitz | It gives low-cost space for some companies | Dec 25 13:41 |
| schestowitz | I visited it in 2003 | Dec 25 13:41 |
| oiaohm | Yes I am paid if I successly pull of having todo nothing. | Dec 25 13:41 |
| schestowitz | Some Web companies were based there for interaction among staff | Dec 25 13:41 |
| oiaohm | What I am quite good at doing. | Dec 25 13:41 |
| schestowitz | Hmmm... | Dec 25 13:41 |
| schestowitz | Maybe we don't need to look for investors first | Dec 25 13:42 |
| oiaohm | My style is the cheepest to setup and run. schestowitz | Dec 25 13:42 |
| schestowitz | I can't think of high expenses except marketing the service by contacting MATLAB clients | Dec 25 13:42 |
| schestowitz | The goal is finding out who wants to cut cost of MATLAB licences, then offer them GNU Octave with GNU/Linux | Dec 25 13:43 |
| schestowitz | The specialised skill needed here is MATLAB/Octave | Dec 25 13:43 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes | Dec 25 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Its simpler for me. | Dec 25 13:43 |
| schestowitz | But... | Dec 25 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Since I am such a all rounder. | Dec 25 13:43 |
| schestowitz | You have no guarantee, income-wise | Dec 25 13:43 |
| oiaohm | I do with the SLA's. | Dec 25 13:43 |
| schestowitz | VC is not a priority for now | Dec 25 13:44 |
| oiaohm | They have taken me a long term to build. | Dec 25 13:44 |
| schestowitz | But I know people who can hand out money to help kickstart as a personal favour | Dec 25 13:44 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: how many clients do you pull as private business? | Dec 25 13:44 |
| schestowitz | If you have no site, then you rely on word of mouth/phone | Dec 25 13:44 |
| oiaohm | In SLA over 40. | Dec 25 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Last count. | Dec 25 13:45 |
| schestowitz | Or maybe you pull aside people who work with your boss | Dec 25 13:45 |
| schestowitz | In which case you risk your job, too | Dec 25 13:45 |
| schestowitz | Remember where "FUD" came from | Dec 25 13:45 |
| schestowitz | The term coined by former IBMer | Dec 25 13:45 |
| schestowitz | Who used his IBM skills to make a consultancy on the side IIRC | Dec 25 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Each of those pays me 5 hours a month 100 percent for sure. schestowitz | Dec 25 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Yes where the art setting up systems correctly come in. | Dec 25 13:46 |
| schestowitz | UK AU CA and US are basically something that can be reached if we share resources | Dec 25 13:46 |
| schestowitz | But I don't know others in the UK who are good at MATLAB and are close to me | Dec 25 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Basically SLA is where the core money is. | Dec 25 13:46 |
| schestowitz | Actually, one colleague is... | Dec 25 13:46 |
| schestowitz | But he's in academia still | Dec 25 13:46 |
| schestowitz | Postdoc and satisfied | Dec 25 13:46 |
| schestowitz | PArt-time in Belgrade | Dec 25 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Custom services what you Matlab/octave falls under would be a fun side project. | Dec 25 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Dec 25 13:47 |
| schestowitz | But you might need to know the syntax | Dec 25 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Some things not implemented in octave | Dec 25 13:47 |
| schestowitz | That's where you need to write custom code | Dec 25 13:47 |
| schestowitz | I'm good at that | Dec 25 13:47 |
| schestowitz | KDE and Qtoctave | Dec 25 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Ok I have 3 levels of SLA's. | Dec 25 13:47 |
| oiaohm | the 40 are my core type. | Dec 25 13:48 |
| schestowitz | KDE cause of Qt | Dec 25 13:48 |
| schestowitz | KDE4 is very stable | Dec 25 13:48 |
| schestowitz | Never crashed on me (whole session) | Dec 25 13:48 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: so you could handle more? | Dec 25 13:48 |
| schestowitz | I mean... | Dec 25 13:48 |
| schestowitz | Toby comes from .au | Dec 25 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Yes without issues. | Dec 25 13:48 |
| schestowitz | =FurnaceBoy BTW | Dec 25 13:48 |
| oiaohm | You think how much time I can spend online. | Dec 25 13:48 |
| schestowitz | And if one could advertise as covering Australia too then it's more potential contacts and coverage for services | Dec 25 13:49 |
| oiaohm | I don't take short cuts building servers. | Dec 25 13:49 |
| schestowitz | And we could always use other people over the Net if you need custom code | Dec 25 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Results is servers that run basically 100 percent dependable. | Dec 25 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Physical presence needed for deployment | Dec 25 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Rest can be done with E-mail etc. | Dec 25 13:49 |
| oiaohm | ssh with port knocking? | Dec 25 13:50 |
| schestowitz | I know MATLAB is a huge market | Dec 25 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Like a billion dollars | Dec 25 13:50 |
| schestowitz | You can find their clients and propose to cut down their MATLAB expenses | Dec 25 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Scilab and octave mostly | Dec 25 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Active work ie where I have todo stuff. Is about 20 hours a month. schestowitz | Dec 25 13:50 |
| schestowitz | But also ImageMagick and other tools I learned about the past 2 months | Dec 25 13:50 |
| oiaohm | yes that is with the client base I have. | Dec 25 13:50 |
| schestowitz | OK, good | Dec 25 13:51 |
| oiaohm | So there is tons of room for me. | Dec 25 13:51 |
| schestowitz | If we decide it's a safe route, then need site, logo, registration, laptops, etc. | Dec 25 13:51 |
| schestowitz | It involved travelling a lot | Dec 25 13:51 |
| schestowitz | I stopped using laptops in 2005 | Dec 25 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Might buy a new one next month anyway | Dec 25 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Doing repairs for businesses I can be lucky and get laptops for free. | Dec 25 13:52 |
| schestowitz | I worry about one thing: how to approach or be approached by those whom I see here looking to get rid of MATLAB costs. | Dec 25 13:52 |
| schestowitz | Everyone I speak to in universiries hates it | Dec 25 13:52 |
| schestowitz | The uni pays for campus-wqise licences | Dec 25 13:52 |
| oiaohm | I also have a friend who does bankrupt business hardware clean ups. schestowitz | Dec 25 13:53 |
| schestowitz | But staff and students can't put that on private laptops and home | Dec 25 13:53 |
| schestowitz | I spoke to some professors about it | Dec 25 13:53 |
| oiaohm | If he need a hand what he has not in a while. If there is a laptop there I get it free. | Dec 25 13:53 |
| oiaohm | And legal. | Dec 25 13:53 |
| schestowitz | And I reckon this took so much time, why not turn it into something that addresses the need? | Dec 25 13:53 |
| schestowitz | Rather than me doing it while I'm supposed to do research | Dec 25 13:54 |
| oiaohm | Really cannot you do both. | Dec 25 13:54 |
| schestowitz | marketing material not needed if there's word of mouth | Dec 25 13:54 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: that's what I do now | Dec 25 13:54 |
| oiaohm | research what real world requires out of students. schestowitz | Dec 25 13:54 |
| schestowitz | Half the time at the university I deal with non-research stuff | Dec 25 13:55 |
| oiaohm | In the process of helping companies improve there system. | Dec 25 13:55 |
| schestowitz | Students need to have s/w controlled to run their program | Dec 25 13:55 |
| oiaohm | Yes I am kinda dispecable this way. | Dec 25 13:55 |
| schestowitz | It' unjust for graduate students to leave with their code which can't be run without paying $700 for MATLAB | Dec 25 13:55 |
| oiaohm | Getting paid twice three times for the same hour is nice. | Dec 25 13:55 |
| schestowitz | They give it 'for free' to students | Dec 25 13:55 |
| schestowitz | Then the code is hostage/random scenario | Dec 25 13:56 |
| schestowitz | MATLAB is expensive, so people would pay a lot for help avoiding the tax associated with it | Dec 25 13:56 |
| oiaohm | I know the argument you are going to run into. | Dec 25 13:56 |
| oiaohm | But business uses Matlab arguement. | Dec 25 13:56 |
| oiaohm | So students has to know it. | Dec 25 13:56 |
| schestowitz | I know people who made business from MATLAB consulting, but I was a Ph.D. student when I saw other people doing it | Dec 25 13:56 |
| schestowitz | It's wrong route | Dec 25 13:57 |
| schestowitz | They helped MATLAB | Dec 25 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Rather than helping people replace it | Dec 25 13:57 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: depends where. | Dec 25 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Like in hospitals... they might not mind | Dec 25 13:57 |
| schestowitz | I'm close to making campus offer option | Dec 25 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Octave OR MATLAB | Dec 25 13:58 |
| schestowitz | Like OOo or Office | Dec 25 13:58 |
| schestowitz | My doctorate and experience can help attract support from staff ('customers') and funding | Dec 25 13:58 |
| schestowitz | But that's not the point | Dec 25 13:58 |
| schestowitz | The point is, you can make a Windows->Linux migration a business | Dec 25 13:58 |
| schestowitz | So doing good for FOSS and also making money in the process | Dec 25 13:59 |
| schestowitz | If the group of us is well spread in all the English-speaking countries (site/material in one language is needed) with cpp skills, MATLAB, Toby has links in marketing, Linux, academic and numerical skills... | Dec 25 14:00 |
| schestowitz | 'Marketing' as in getting the word out is not too hard either because we're not islands on the Web. Some of us have influential blogs and Twitter accounts, all promoting Free software, connection with companies, professors, etc. So maybe we can pull this off, assuming there's a place to start, e.g. universities. | Dec 25 14:01 |
| oiaohm | OpenOffice still has a lot of issues particularly in Calc | Dec 25 14:06 |
| oiaohm | You are not dealing with these with Octave. | Dec 25 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Ie Octave basically works as it should. | Dec 25 14:06 |
| oiaohm | I know my bug bears to migration to open source. | Dec 25 14:07 |
| oiaohm | Legacy code is a pain in ass. | Dec 25 14:07 |
| oiaohm | Calc being slow. | Dec 25 14:07 |
| oiaohm | The outlook stuck people. | Dec 25 14:07 |
| oiaohm | And the resistant staff. | Dec 25 14:08 |
| oiaohm | Really I don't know how dug in Matlab persoanal will be. | Dec 25 14:08 |
| oiaohm | Big key thing I wish would just work then I could do a lot of migrations is. Samba 4. | Dec 25 14:10 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: when you're back, mind if we swap CVs so that we know each other's technical background? | Dec 25 14:10 |
| oiaohm | Lot of windows programs fail due to lacking NTFS filesystem structs Samba 4 can do. | Dec 25 14:10 |
| schestowitz | Outlook and Exchange are an issue | Dec 25 14:11 |
| oiaohm | But Samba 3 cannot. | Dec 25 14:11 |
| schestowitz | But Outlook is a mess | Dec 25 14:11 |
| oiaohm | openchange has exchange hammered once we get Samba 4 | Dec 25 14:11 |
| oiaohm | That it needs for back end. | Dec 25 14:11 |
| schestowitz | I know cause someone who uses it around here keeps thinking it's OK for mail client to take half an hour to start | Dec 25 14:11 |
| schestowitz | If power goes down, she then needs to wait for Outlook to do something | Dec 25 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Like recovery | Dec 25 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't happen with Thunderbird | Dec 25 14:12 |
| oiaohm | O yes it does. | Dec 25 14:12 |
| schestowitz | Definitely not half an hour | Dec 25 14:12 |
| oiaohm | Thunderbird damaged mail takes ages. | Dec 25 14:12 |
| oiaohm | But its rarer event. | Dec 25 14:12 |
| schestowitz | It can use deadlocks to ensure data is not deleted from servers until after it's written _to disk_ | Dec 25 14:12 |
| schestowitz | Thunderbird crashes are rare, and I never lost data due to them | Dec 25 14:12 |
| oiaohm | I have never lost data from them. | Dec 25 14:13 |
| oiaohm | But some of the worst have require rebuilding of the mail stores manually. | Dec 25 14:13 |
| schestowitz | You're more likely to lose mail due to spam filters | Dec 25 14:13 |
| oiaohm | Yet it was atleast doable. | Dec 25 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Not yours | Dec 25 14:13 |
| schestowitz | ISP's | Dec 25 14:13 |
| schestowitz | I lost lots of mail cause the ISPs wrongly intercepts things I expect | Dec 25 14:13 |
| oiaohm | Worst one was kinda evil with Thunderbird. | Dec 25 14:13 |
| schestowitz | That's what catalysed me starting to dump Emaul | Dec 25 14:13 |
| oiaohm | user though they had lost everything. | Dec 25 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Even IRC is more reliable | Dec 25 14:14 |
| oiaohm | Logged in Thunderbird was displaying no mail at all. | Dec 25 14:14 |
| oiaohm | Would not retreave mail because of a really strange error. | Dec 25 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Still in ~/.thunderbird | Dec 25 14:14 |
| schestowitz | and with backups it's not a problem | Dec 25 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Compare to .PST file | Dec 25 14:14 |
| schestowitz | With everything | Dec 25 14:14 |
| schestowitz | OneCare popped it | Dec 25 14:15 |
| schestowitz | Killed people's entire boxes | Dec 25 14:15 |
| schestowitz | At least .mbox is typically spread | Dec 25 14:15 |
| oiaohm | I can recover .PST from Onecare opps. | Dec 25 14:15 |
| schestowitz | and maildir more so | Dec 25 14:15 |
| schestowitz | But messes up FS with lots of small files | Dec 25 14:15 |
| oiaohm | .PST screws up worst from over MAX filesize. | Dec 25 14:15 |
| schestowitz | 1gb? | Dec 25 14:15 |
| schestowitz | 4? | Dec 25 14:15 |
| oiaohm | Depends on vesion of outlook | Dec 25 14:16 |
| oiaohm | 2 to 4 | Dec 25 14:16 |
| schestowitz | IIRC Windows chokes at low size | Dec 25 14:16 |
| oiaohm | gb | Dec 25 14:16 |
| schestowitz | That's why I backup with split | Dec 25 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Historically, some ext. HDDs I had were preformatted with FAT | Dec 25 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Of course it annoyed me enough to later wipe them | Dec 25 14:16 |
| oiaohm | Yes outlook max file size has nothing todo with filesystem most of the time. | Dec 25 14:16 |
| schestowitz | And put ext3 on all | Dec 25 14:16 |
| oiaohm | Internal outlook limit. | Dec 25 14:17 |
| schestowitz | It also didn't deal with some filenames Linux handles OK | Dec 25 14:17 |
| oiaohm | I am off to bed I have to be up for boxing day sales. | Dec 25 14:17 |
| oiaohm | I need a new air compressor. | Dec 25 14:17 |
| oiaohm | borked the old one. | Dec 25 14:17 |
| schestowitz | Now I just run mkdir /media/disk-1/Home/`date +%Y-%m-%d` tar -cf - /home/roy|split -b 1000m - /media/disk-1/Home/`date +%Y-%m-%d`/Home-`date +%Y-%m-%d`.tar. | Dec 25 14:18 |
| oiaohm | For some reason they don't like being hit by a truck. | Dec 25 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmm.. truck eh? | Dec 25 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Reversed over it. | Dec 25 14:18 |
| oiaohm | One of those moments of carelessness we all have. | Dec 25 14:19 |
| oiaohm | and I would have to pick a 20 l air compressor todo it to. | Dec 25 14:19 |
| schestowitz | Yikes | Dec 25 14:20 |
| oiaohm | No truck damage. | Dec 25 14:20 |
| oiaohm | 20 percent off for boxing day. | Dec 25 14:21 |
| oiaohm | From one hardware store every year. | Dec 25 14:21 |
| oiaohm | Yes its truly 20 percent off. | Dec 25 14:21 |
| oiaohm | At least I did it the right time of year. | Dec 25 14:22 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Dec 25 14:22 | |
| schestowitz | > Dear Doctor Roy, | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > #forgive me for not giving you rest but look at this: | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/12/what-traitorware | Dec 25 14:25 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: What is Traitorware? | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 19.98 KB | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > The EFF says "likely to see more traitorware on the horizon. When that | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > happens, EFF will be there to fight it. " | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > But at Techrights we've been fighting it since it showed up & surely | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > will make a lot of noise to make people aware of it! | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > Feliz Navidad! | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | > Sincerely, | Dec 25 14:25 |
| schestowitz | today I made | Dec 25 14:26 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Spain | Dec 25 14:26 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Spain - Techrights .::. Size~: 13.53 KB | Dec 25 14:26 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Portugal | Dec 25 14:26 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Portugal - Techrights .::. Size~: 15.4 KB | Dec 25 14:26 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Espanol | Dec 25 14:26 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Español - Techrights .::. Size~: 19.7 KB | Dec 25 14:26 |
| schestowitz | This page ought to have some introduction in Spanish about what Free/libre software is. Many visitors won't know. | Dec 25 14:27 |
| schestowitz | Help me expand it.... if you know Spanish | Dec 25 14:27 |
| Quadrescence | [08:10.24] <schestowitz> Quadrescence: when you're back, mind if we swap CVs so that we know each other's technical background? | Dec 25 14:30 |
| Quadrescence | Sure. | Dec 25 14:30 |
| Quadrescence | But you won't be impressed by my formal academic work. | Dec 25 14:30 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: I might be able to expand it (I can write Spanish) | Dec 25 14:31 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: cool, you're a LaTeX person too | Dec 25 14:48 |
| schestowitz | Is Toby? | Dec 25 14:48 |
| Quadrescence | Toby used to be, I know. In fact, I think he ported TeX onto the Transputer in like 1980. :D | Dec 25 14:48 |
| Quadrescence | I don't think he does TeX very often now. | Dec 25 14:48 |
| schestowitz | I don't use office suites | Dec 25 14:55 |
| schestowitz | WHich bothers some people | Dec 25 14:55 |
| schestowitz | I find them not so confining, just tending to produce ugly output and bothring the user with layout where they need not | Dec 25 14:56 |
| schestowitz | But typesetting can have higher learning curve, unless one uses kile or lyx | Dec 25 14:56 |
| schestowitz | lyx has added some functionality recently | Dec 25 14:56 |
| schestowitz | Some things I needed to work in raw tex for are not in tex GUI | Dec 25 14:57 |
| schestowitz | *I mean __lyx_ GUI | Dec 25 14:57 |
| schestowitz | bookmarks, floats spamming two columns, etc. | Dec 25 14:57 |
| Quadrescence | Yeah | Dec 25 14:57 |
| schestowitz | No need to add /tex blocks or edit the preamble manually either | Dec 25 14:57 |
| Quadrescence | I don't quite like LyX for the same reason I don't like office suites. But LyX is certainly better then those. | Dec 25 14:58 |
| schestowitz | I used to have to look at my old documents, cause without GUI it's hard to memorise what you may as well have done years beforehand | Dec 25 14:58 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: which version? | Dec 25 14:58 |
| schestowitz | I use 1.6.5 | Dec 25 14:58 |
| schestowitz | Back when I did my thesis it was like 1.3.x | Dec 25 14:59 |
| Quadrescence | The last version I tried was 1.6.7 | Dec 25 14:59 |
| schestowitz | It now has version control, too | Dec 25 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Although it's buggy | Dec 25 14:59 |
| schestowitz | It crashes it for me if I undo a lot | Dec 25 14:59 |
| Quadrescence | With emacs, you some of the nice things from LyX. :) | Dec 25 14:59 |
| schestowitz | I haven't tried kile for ages | Dec 25 15:00 |
| Quadrescence | http://lh5.ggpht.com/gongyi.liao/RxWgkE6PbWI/AAAAAAAAAGU/0LSziDuf9YU/s800/Screenshot-Emacs-AUCTEX.png | Dec 25 15:00 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Not a web page! Aborting image/png type | Dec 25 15:00 |
| Quadrescence | http://lh6.ggpht.com/_egN-3IJO0Xg/SpImc2gIlrI/AAAAAAAABkI/pY2MNrFeAVY/preview-latex-small.png | Dec 25 15:00 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Not a web page! Aborting image/png type | Dec 25 15:00 |
| Quadrescence | http://blogfiles.sidstamm.com/pics/preview-latex.jpg | Dec 25 15:00 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Dec 25 15:00 |
| Quadrescence | :) | Dec 25 15:00 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: I'll have Toby read the logs when he comes back | Dec 25 15:01 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm says he's willing to help too | Dec 25 15:01 |
| schestowitz | He's in .au | Dec 25 15:01 |
| schestowitz | He already registered for consulting on his own | Dec 25 15:01 |
| schestowitz | The advantage of collaborating is that you need only produce one site/docs to market in all English-speaking countries | Dec 25 15:02 |
| Quadrescence | Right | Dec 25 15:02 |
| schestowitz | I could in principle travel in Europe | Dec 25 15:02 |
| schestowitz | And I can get appointment with s/w people in universities | Dec 25 15:02 |
| schestowitz | The head of software procurement in Manchester U. is a former colleague of mine | Dec 25 15:03 |
| schestowitz | In Manchester Comouting | Dec 25 15:03 |
| schestowitz | *COmputing | Dec 25 15:03 |
| schestowitz | And I have some connections near MathWorks, maybe I can fetch list of their clients (legally) | Dec 25 15:03 |
| schestowitz | Quadrescence: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2010/12/25/free-matlab-replacements/ | Dec 25 15:40 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » GNU Octave a Compatible Drop-in Replacement for MATLAB .::. Size~: 35.35 KB | Dec 25 15:40 |
| schestowitz | I'm doing another post | Dec 25 15:41 |
| *gnufreex (~quassel@109-92-207-205.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Dec 25 15:41 | |
| schestowitz | I'm preparing a qtoctave demo | Dec 25 15:46 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: Remember JordiGH? | Dec 25 16:15 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: whether you do or not, he does speak Spanish natively/fluently and is pro-free/libre software | Dec 25 16:15 |
| Quadrescence | Maybe I could get him to expand the wiki in Spanish a little | Dec 25 16:16 |
| schestowitz | Yes, please! | Dec 25 16:23 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2010/12/25/qtoctave-screenshots/ | Dec 25 16:48 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » Visual Tour of QtOctave .::. Size~: 40.45 KB | Dec 25 16:48 |
| *sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Dec 25 17:06 | |
| sebsebseb | Merry Christmas | Dec 25 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Just got some more support from a mate...... | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | In case we do start something...... | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | [17:24] <schestowitz> Heey | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | [17:25] <mikeyc> heey | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | [17:25] <mikeyc> meeeeery christmas royston! | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | [17:25] <schestowitz> It's more like a vacation here | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | [17:26] <mikeyc> i still have your sardines | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | [17:26] <mikeyc> and socks | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | [17:26] <schestowitz> eat up the fish | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | [17:26] <mikeyc> i can have a chat with my friend lee | Dec 25 17:35 |
| schestowitz | [17:26] <schestowitz> It was not meant for storage | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:26] <schestowitz> thanks! | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:27] <schestowitz> lee can be helpful here | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:27] <schestowitz> I can get funding for our startup too | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:27] <mikeyc> lee is very politically aware | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:27] <schestowitz> So money is not a problem | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:27] <schestowitz> I am too | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:27] <mikeyc> he is from northern ireland | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:27] <mikeyc> none at all | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:28] <mikeyc> no worries | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:28] <schestowitz> I think I'll buy a laptop | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:28] <schestowitz> I'll know for sure tomorrow, I think | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:28] <schestowitz> Cause I still check some other routes | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:28] <mikeyc> why laptop? | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:28] <schestowitz> job would need traveling | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:29] <mikeyc> ok | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:29] <schestowitz> I grouped friends with same background as me | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:29] <mikeyc> are you familiar with assange | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:29] <schestowitz> Different countries... all the English-speaking ones | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:29] <mikeyc> julian | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:29] <schestowitz> Yes | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:29] <schestowitz> I'm a longtime supporter | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:29] <mikeyc> good | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:29] <schestowitz> And I did something similar to them | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:30] <schestowitz> Today I posted http://techrights.org/2010/12/25/memories-of-alex-brown/ | Dec 25 17:36 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Alex Brown: The ‘Joe Lieberman’ of Microsoft | Techrights .::. Size~: 92.59 KB | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:30] <schestowitz> Within hours someone from South American mailed me a translation http://techrights.org/2010/12/25/lieberman-de-microsoft/ | Dec 25 17:36 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: ES: Alex Brown: El ‘Joe Lieberman’ de Microsoft | Techrights .::. Size~: 94.33 KB | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:30] <schestowitz> I didn't even need to ask, these get sent to me | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:32] <mikeyc> i gotta shoot roy, they are waiting for me downstairs | Dec 25 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:32] <schestowitz> Cool! | Dec 25 17:36 |
| Quadrescence | schestowitz: neat | Dec 25 19:02 |
| schestowitz | I think it's up to 4 of us now | Dec 25 19:07 |
| schestowitz | But oiaohm is not a programmer | Dec 25 19:07 |
| schestowitz | He's more of an admin type | Dec 25 19:07 |
| Quadrescence | I don't think that's bad., | Dec 25 19:10 |
| schestowitz | It's not bad | Dec 25 19:16 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qnS0DXnoxo | Dec 25 21:00 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: YouTube - Happy Holidays Anyways .::. Size~: 139.21 KB | Dec 25 21:00 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know Toby comments in Groklaw.. http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20101215000542768&title=Allegations+regarding+OpenBSD&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=891060#c891092 | Dec 25 22:39 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Groklaw - Digging for Truth .::. Size~: 14.44 KB | Dec 25 22:39 |
| *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Dec 25 22:54 | |
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