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IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: December 25th, 2010

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*gnufreex_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)Dec 25 00:04
Quadrescenceschestowitz: you awake?Dec 25 07:02
schestowitzYeah, what's up?Dec 25 07:03
QuadrescenceI read your recent post "Winter of Code"Dec 25 07:03
QuadrescenceYou're thinking about starting a company??Dec 25 07:04
schestowitzMaybe, but not sure yetDec 25 07:16
schestowitzMy programs are stuck in GUI with MATLAB dependenciesDec 25 07:17
schestowitzI am trying to port everything to octaveDec 25 07:17
schestowitzAnd it's not like building another IRC clients, which is already a crowded space with many free options. This is specialised.Dec 25 07:18
Quadrescenceschestowitz: yesDec 25 07:19
schestowitzThe person I did a Ph.D. with had other students start companiesDec 25 07:20
schestowitzOne did exceptionally well at itDec 25 07:20
QuadrescenceI kind of have wanted to start a startup too, but I couldn't do it aloneDec 25 07:20
schestowitzGareth EdwardsDec 25 07:20
Quadrescencespecializing in mathematical softwareDec 25 07:20
schestowitzQuadrescence: I'll keep you in the knowDec 25 07:20
QuadrescenceI'd love that. :)Dec 25 07:20
QuadrescenceWhat you're doing research on sounds interesting.Dec 25 07:20
schestowitzStartups in software need hours and not estateDec 25 07:20
QuadrescenceYes, indeed.Dec 25 07:21
schestowitzQuadrescence: I'm uploading some paper ATMDec 25 07:21
schestowitzA draftDec 25 07:21
schestowitzJust a moment, I'll give you URLsDec 25 07:21
schestowitzI'm HTMLing the PDFDec 25 07:21
schestowitzWith scripts I haveDec 25 07:21
QuadrescenceThose kind of research problems are the kinds of things I want to make software for.Dec 25 07:21
schestowitzThe added value if s/w freedomDec 25 07:22
schestowitzGNU+Linux+Qt(KDE)+OctaveDec 25 07:23
schestowitzI once helped a professor whose good program was in MATLABDec 25 07:23
schestowitzSo he couldn't deploy cheaply in hospitalsDec 25 07:23
schestowitzMATLAB/MathWorks supports sofwtare patent and BSADec 25 07:23
schestowitzBad bunchDec 25 07:23
schestowitzCause they know they can be commoditisedDec 25 07:23
schestowitzThat Prof. called me cause I had a reputation in the medical school for being MATLAB GUIs 'expert'Dec 25 07:24
schestowitzI had had like 30k people at the time download my paper about itDec 25 07:24
schestowitzAnd MathWorks asked me to write a book about it (I was 22)Dec 25 07:24
schestowitzI think now might be a good time to outdo MATLAB, but maybe focusing on one area would be betterDec 25 07:25
Quadrescenceschestowitz: The software I'm designing right now has a goal (but not the focus) of outdoing mathematica/maple, which are more for symbolic math. But I want to be very attentive to integrating matlab-esque numerics.Dec 25 07:27
schestowitzOK, I've just uploaded two documentsDec 25 07:31
schestowitzHere's the second one as PDF http://schestowitz.com/Research/Cardiac/Documents/2010/Tagging-Project-2010/2010-tagging.pdf or HTML vDec 25 07:31
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Research/Cardiac/Documents/2010/Tagging-Project-2010/HTML/Dec 25 07:31
TechrightsBot-scNot a web page! Aborting application/pdf typeDec 25 07:31
TechrightsBot-scTitle: 2010 RESEARCH PROPOSAL - DRAFT .::. Size~: 3.67 KBDec 25 07:31
schestowitzQuadrescence: what does the software do?Dec 25 07:32
schestowitzI just think there's potential in offering either something specialised or general to people who use overpriced software like thatDec 25 07:32
schestowitzThe other option if consulting for those who want to get rid of MATLAB and MathematicDec 25 07:33
schestowitzI've learned QtOctave and Octave quite wellDec 25 07:33
schestowitzI know all the options in QtOctaveDec 25 07:33
schestowitzI also installed it for some people hereDec 25 07:33
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2010/11/30/gnu-octave-installation/Dec 25 07:33
TechrightsBot-scTitle: schestowitz.com  » Blog Archive   » Migrations From MATLAB to GNU Octave .::. Size~: 40.35 KBDec 25 07:34
oiaohmschestowitz:  Sad part here the closed source guys are the new guys on the block.Dec 25 07:34
oiaohmschestowitz;  It will be nice day to see them gone.Dec 25 07:35
oiaohmKey part of all research is repeatablity and closed source gets in the way of doing that.Dec 25 07:35
schestowitzoiaohm: yeahDec 25 07:36
schestowitzI know both MATLAB and Octave nowDec 25 07:36
schestowitzI know MATLAB extremely wellDec 25 07:36
schestowitzWith all the advanced stuff tooDec 25 07:36
schestowitzIt's ahead of OctaveDec 25 07:36
schestowitzBut I know Octave's limitations tooDec 25 07:37
Quadrescenceschestowitz: The software is being designed right now. But its goal is to systematize doing mathematics on the computer.Dec 25 07:37
schestowitzSo moving people to Octave is something I can do and estimate in advance whether possible or notDec 25 07:37
Quadrescencenumerical and symbolic mathematicsDec 25 07:37
schestowitzIf someone pays $10,000 for MATLAB licences per year, than paying a consultant to move it all to actave is worth an investmentDec 25 07:37
schestowitzHowever, MathWorks has patentsDec 25 07:38
schestowitzQuadrescence: Initial thought was: let's create image analysis for medical settings in affordable waysDec 25 07:39
schestowitzBut...Dec 25 07:39
schestowitzA broader thing is:Dec 25 07:39
schestowitz1. Replace Windows with GNU/LinuxDec 25 07:39
oiaohmhttp://www.scilab.org/  I guess you heard of this one as well.  schestowitzDec 25 07:39
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Home - Scilab WebSite .::. Size~: 49.37 KBDec 25 07:39
schestowitz2. Replace MATLAB with QtOctave+OctaveDec 25 07:39
schestowitzNo more BSA visitsDec 25 07:39
QuadrescenceI agree with those broader goals so far :)Dec 25 07:40
schestowitzBut the thing is, how many industrial settings use MATLAB?Dec 25 07:40
schestowitzThat's what I'm not too sure ofDec 25 07:40
schestowitzoiaohm: yesDec 25 07:40
schestowitzI installed itDec 25 07:40
schestowitzI wrote some posts about it in my blog, tooDec 25 07:40
schestowitzQuadrescence: wider marketDec 25 07:40
schestowitzThe business model is "killing proprietary software"Dec 25 07:40
schestowitzWhich I think makes it ethicalDec 25 07:40
Quadrescenceschestowitz: I have no numbers, but I am pretty damn sure a lot of industrial settings do use MATLAB. Most universities here in the USA teach courses such as "numerical analysis", "scientific computing", and many other more specific courses with MATLAB entirely.Dec 25 07:41
QuadrescenceWhich I find absolutely despicable.Dec 25 07:41
oiaohmReally proprietary software is rarely affordable bey everywhere.Dec 25 07:41
oiaohmQuadrescence: So knowing Matlab is most likely not the thing that will get you the job.Dec 25 07:41
schestowitzI was ranked #1 in the world for MATLAB contributions at one stage, so I'm hoping some reputation can help explain that I'm not some n00b trying to cull out MATLABDec 25 07:42
schestowitzQuadrescence: yes, in universities they don't need MATLABDec 25 07:42
schestowitzThe students use very basic functionsDec 25 07:42
schestowitzAnd they can't use MATLAB ayt homeDec 25 07:42
oiaohmQuadrescence: because the market is flooded with Matlab users and money is getting tighter on R&DDec 25 07:42
schestowitzThis means they have to come esp. to the labs just to do their homeworkDec 25 07:42
schestowitzI see it with the students hereDec 25 07:43
Quadrescenceoiaohm: I am emphasizing that MATLAB is basically becoming the norm.Dec 25 07:43
oiaohmCost of Matlab might be the difference between 1 of you having a job or not.Dec 25 07:43
oiaohmI am a Linux users my collage course was completely taught on windows.  QuadrescenceDec 25 07:43
oiaohmMy Linux Skills got me work.Dec 25 07:43
schestowitzMATLAB did price hiksDec 25 07:43
schestowitzMATLAB did price hikesDec 25 07:43
schestowitzIt pissed off the profs hereDec 25 07:43
schestowitzThey would start cheaplyDec 25 07:43
schestowitzOIr give it 'free' to studentsDec 25 07:44
schestowitzAnd then double the pricingDec 25 07:44
schestowitzThey would rebelDec 25 07:44
Quadrescenceoiaohm: Yes, I am not disputing that. I am saying many people are being expected to know MATLAB as a basic tool.Dec 25 07:44
schestowitzoiaohm: Linux skills too are handyDec 25 07:44
schestowitzoiaohm: you want octave on LinuxDec 25 07:44
schestowitzNot WindowsDec 25 07:44
schestowitzSo companies can get rid of Windows tooDec 25 07:44
schestowitzBetter stability, no viruses, etcDec 25 07:44
oiaohmoctave runs faster on LinuxDec 25 07:45
schestowitzImageMagick works better tooDec 25 07:45
oiaohmIt truly does.Dec 25 07:45
oiaohmLot of other things run faster on Linux.Dec 25 07:45
schestowitzMATLAB for Linux was improved, but the GUI is still ugly thereDec 25 07:45
schestowitzQuadrescence: where are you located?Dec 25 07:45
QuadrescenceMinnesota, USADec 25 07:45
oiaohmReally schestowitz with your background you can expand the open source tools.Dec 25 07:45
schestowitzOKDec 25 07:45
schestowitzoiaohm: Ihave alreadyDec 25 07:46
schestowitzPeople think I just do TechrightsDec 25 07:46
schestowitzI ought to publish that interview I did for a magazineDec 25 07:46
schestowitzI explained there about my programming sideDec 25 07:46
oiaohmQuadrescence: the sad part is the Unis are not aware of the damage they have done to themselves by locking into closed source tools.Dec 25 07:47
QuadrescenceYes, that saddens me.Dec 25 07:47
oiaohmCosts will catch up with them.Dec 25 07:48
QuadrescenceNow many universities are making it almost standard to have a copy of Mathematica or Maple, both of which are proprietary symbolic math softwares.Dec 25 07:48
oiaohmNot like MS can afford for ever to give windows away discounted.Dec 25 07:48
schestowitzQuadrescence: are you in contact with the local universities?Dec 25 07:49
oiaohmNeither can Mathematica or Maple afford to be giving away discounted forever.Dec 25 07:49
schestowitzToby said he'd be interested in collab'ingDec 25 07:49
schestowitzANd he's in CanadaDec 25 07:49
schestowitzCovering UK, UK, Canada in general can be good point to start, but I don't know if Toby does numerical analysisDec 25 07:49
schestowitzI think he's a programmer stuck in marketingDec 25 07:49
Quadrescenceschestowitz: I somewhat regularly go to the university of minnesota (a rather large uni). However, I don't have close ties with professors.Dec 25 07:49
QuadrescenceHis job right now is doing PHP and stuff.Dec 25 07:50
schestowitzGetting hold of list of MATLAB user/MathWorks clients could be handyDec 25 07:50
schestowitzBut it's secret, obviouslyDec 25 07:50
schestowitzCompanies look to cut down costsDec 25 07:50
oiaohmmaple is one of those intresting one that someone should consider cloning the complierDec 25 07:51
QuadrescenceToby doesn't do numerical analysis, but he's had experience in the numerical arena definitely.Dec 25 07:51
schestowitzYou could offer them free/libre replacementsDec 25 07:51
schestowitzBut...Dec 25 07:51
schestowitzI worry cause in Fedora 14 things didn't work smoothlyDec 25 07:51
schestowitzThey did in KuhbuntuDec 25 07:51
schestowitz*KubuntuDec 25 07:51
schestowitzQuadrescence: what langs does he do?Dec 25 07:51
schestowitzI can do PHP based on his work on the TechrightsBotDec 25 07:51
Quadrescenceschestowitz: He knows C very well, C++ I think, Java I think, some ASMsDec 25 07:52
schestowitzHe's also good at setting up Linux VMsDec 25 07:52
QuadrescenceI've been teaching him Lisp/SchemeDec 25 07:52
Quadrescenceand a little HaskellDec 25 07:52
schestowitzOctave is written in C/C++ I thinkDec 25 07:52
schestowitzI assume soDec 25 07:52
schestowitzCause the error messages imply iDec 25 07:52
QuadrescenceC++Dec 25 07:52
schestowitz*itDec 25 07:52
QuadrescenceI know someone who regularly (?) contributes to Octave.Dec 25 07:53
schestowitzSometimes fix are needed upstreamDec 25 07:53
schestowitzsavannahDec 25 07:53
oiaohmQuadrescence: Octave sections of it are still pure CDec 25 07:53
QuadrescenceYeahDec 25 07:53
oiaohmI know of guys who got into trouble for tainting the C sections with C++ with OctaveDec 25 07:54
schestowitzQuadrescence: how many times did you install Octave?Dec 25 07:54
oiaohmWithout need.Dec 25 07:54
schestowitzSomeone to whom I gave Windows instructions couldn't work it outDec 25 07:54
schestowitzAlthough on another machine with Windows I installed it quite easily, qtoctave tooDec 25 07:54
Quadrescenceschestowitz: I've done it many times. On linux, on a Windows VM, on a Windows machine with cygwinDec 25 07:55
schestowitzDoes it always work?Dec 25 07:55
QuadrescenceI've never had issues.Dec 25 07:55
schestowitzI had some bad expriences in some casesDec 25 07:55
schestowitzFedora 14Dec 25 07:55
schestowitzAnd Windows XP for one personDec 25 07:55
oiaohmcygwin you have to be careful with.Dec 25 07:56
QuadrescenceI haven't installed Octave in quite a while, however.Dec 25 07:56
schestowitzBut one could work out with what's known to be workingDec 25 07:56
oiaohmIf you can get away with mingw you stablitity is better on windows.  QuadrescenceDec 25 07:56
schestowitzI even tried older versions of octaveDec 25 07:56
schestowitzI tried compiling two older versions from source last weekDec 25 07:56
schestowitzAt the labDec 25 07:56
schestowitzBoth failedDec 25 07:56
QuadrescenceStrange...Dec 25 07:56
oiaohmGcc complaining head off?Dec 25 07:56
schestowitzI fetched the missing packages, it still failedDec 25 07:56
schestowitzAnd I couldn't be bothered cause the repos would make more sense to useDec 25 07:57
oiaohmNot that strange to me with wine.Dec 25 07:57
oiaohmHow old  schestowitzDec 25 07:57
oiaohmOver 1 year old.Dec 25 07:57
schestowitzAnyway, if a company even has issues withj Octave it can also run back to MATLABDec 25 07:57
schestowitzSo no risk involved, it's compatibleDec 25 07:57
oiaohmGcc introduced a few extra defect detetions in 2010.  schestowitzDec 25 07:57
oiaohmResult lot of prior to 2010 code gcc refuses to straight up build.Dec 25 07:58
schestowitzoiaohm: not gccDec 25 07:58
schestowitzcmakeDec 25 07:58
schestowitzwith gccDec 25 07:58
oiaohmSo still into a gcc complier.Dec 25 07:58
schestowitzI didn't save the i/o to fileDec 25 07:58
schestowitzBut I can reproduce when I'm back at workDec 25 07:58
oiaohmIf it what I am think of.Dec 25 07:59
oiaohmcmake will come back that a file did not build.Dec 25 07:59
oiaohmAnd it will turn out to be correct because gcc spat the dumby over defects in code detected.Dec 25 07:59
oiaohmBasically gcc is become more of a static anlaiser of code all the time.Dec 25 08:00
schestowitzI don't think it's the major issue thoughDec 25 08:00
schestowitzLet me put it like this:Dec 25 08:00
schestowitzI could just use a distro that has it packaged without conflictsDec 25 08:00
schestowitzKubuntu 10.04 is one such distroDec 25 08:00
schestowitzUses same packages as Ubuntu, obviouslyDec 25 08:00
schestowitzLTSDec 25 08:00
schestowitzRight..?Dec 25 08:00
oiaohmI would guess debian has it as well.Dec 25 08:01
QuadrescenceYesDec 25 08:01
oiaohmKubuntu and Ubuntu repos are basically one and the same.Dec 25 08:01
QuadrescenceAll Ubuntu distros use the same packagesDec 25 08:01
schestowitzoiaohm: I burned Mint 10Dec 25 08:01
schestowitz2 weeks agoDec 25 08:01
QuadrescenceThey are 100% the same.Dec 25 08:01
schestowitzTo test and see how it worksDec 25 08:01
schestowitzI tried running it as VM under Fedora 15Dec 25 08:01
schestowitzI tried running it as VM under Fedora 14Dec 25 08:01
QuadrescenceA ubuntu box can be turned into a kubuntu box by just installing packagesDec 25 08:01
schestowitzIt didn't succeed easily though and the Oracle RPMs of VB for F14 did not workDec 25 08:01
schestowitzIt won't install themDec 25 08:01
schestowitzIn Qemu/kvm it didn't workDec 25 08:02
schestowitzBut I can experiment with it next weekDec 25 08:02
QuadrescenceI've had great success with VB for UbuntuDec 25 08:02
schestowitzQuadrescence: yes, I knowDec 25 08:02
Quadrescenceschestowitz: ah okayDec 25 08:02
oiaohmqemu without kvm always works but slow.Dec 25 08:02
schestowitzQuadrescence: but kubuntu has better qt supportDec 25 08:02
Quadrescenceschestowitz: By default, yesDec 25 08:02
schestowitzYou don't want to put qtocave on Ubuntu if you can install kde-desktop or kubuntu-desktopDec 25 08:02
schestowitzQuadrescence: I would leave it for an hour to runDec 25 08:03
schestowitzBut it wouldn't goDec 25 08:03
QuadrescenceYes, yes. I'm just saying both distros are essentially the same, it's just a matter of what's installed by default.Dec 25 08:03
oiaohmkvm depends on a processor feature.  schestowitzDec 25 08:03
schestowitzI made a large VM imageDec 25 08:03
schestowitzAnd no GUIDec 25 08:03
schestowitzWhich I htedDec 25 08:03
schestowitzUsed the Feodra wikiDec 25 08:03
oiaohmVirtualbox on debian I have had trouble with from time to time as well.Dec 25 08:03
schestowitzAnd while installing it would sort of get stuck and later complainDec 25 08:04
schestowitzI have some boxes around here that I can test this stuff onDec 25 08:04
schestowitzMy friene was gonna throw two old PCs out and I told him to keep themDec 25 08:04
schestowitz*friendDec 25 08:04
oiaohmThey could be too old for kvmDec 25 08:05
oiaohmOne of the most dependable but annoying is xen.Dec 25 08:05
oiaohmhttp://libvirt.org/  Know about this and its front ends.  schestowitzDec 25 08:08
TechrightsBot-scTitle: libvirt: The virtualization API .::. Size~: 5.31 KBDec 25 08:08
schestowitzYesDec 25 08:14
schestowitzBut I haven't played around with it yetDec 25 08:14
schestowitzQuadrescence: stick around, I want to speak to Toby when he's backDec 25 08:18
QuadrescenceI'm always lurking here :)Dec 25 08:18
schestowitzMATLAB is almost a billion-dollar marketDec 25 08:18
schestowitzAnd it can be replaced with Free software in most casesDec 25 08:19
*schestowitz off to the gym, bblDec 25 08:20
schestowitzQuadrescence: do you have Toby's contacts?Dec 25 10:43
Quadrescenceschestowitz: I have his email.Dec 25 10:46
schestowitzI'm asking to be sure you know each otherDec 25 10:47
Quadrescenceyes, we certainly doDec 25 10:47
schestowitzCause it's good to have company (as in group) that's not a bunch of strangers with totally different skillsDec 25 10:47
Quadrescencewe talk regularlyDec 25 10:47
Quadrescencejust about every day :)Dec 25 10:47
schestowitzI'm currently checking about VCDec 25 10:47
schestowitzThat's why I said nothing about it since last monthDec 25 10:48
schestowitzWhen he's around the channel we'll discuss this.Dec 25 10:48
QuadrescenceYou know he's away for a while, yes?Dec 25 10:49
schestowitzCause my existing contract is till Feb. and then I can get outDec 25 10:49
schestowitzQuadrescence: Australia?Dec 25 10:49
QuadrescenceHe's off to Brazil right now :)Dec 25 10:49
Quadrescenceas a sort of vacation of courseDec 25 10:49
schestowitzAh, land of Free softwareDec 25 10:49
QuadrescenceheheDec 25 10:49
schestowitzHe didn't say it would be BrazilDec 25 10:50
schestowitzI thought he went home to .auDec 25 10:50
schestowitzWhere oiaohm is inDec 25 10:50
schestowitzLegal threats over leak:Dec 25 11:02
schestowitzhttp://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/OOXML-Documentation-ISO-Concerned?category=13447Dec 25 11:02
schestowitz"Brown goes on to say that "the boobies have even been so good as to boast about the bandwidth requirements their crimes have occasioned" and ends with the words, "Even now, I can hear those Geneva lawyers licking their lips over this one..." Boycott Novell webmaster Roy Schestovitz is not fazed by the possible legalities. He adds, "Feel free to pass around (or even ridicule) those ~60 megabytes of lock-in, which MicrosoftDec 25 11:02
schestowitzwon't let you see." He is not alone in this opinion: the numerous ongoing updates are tagged with the authors’ names. "Dec 25 11:02
TechrightsBot-scTitle:  OOXML Documentation: ISO Concerned - Linux Magazine Online   .::. Size~: 48.08 KBDec 25 11:02
schestowitzThey couldn't even spell my name rightDec 25 11:02
schestowitz"Alex Brown increasingly looks like a Microsoft puppet posing as an impartial ISO official"Dec 25 11:04
*schestowitz experiments with GUI debugging options in qtoctaveDec 25 11:12
schestowitzplotmatrix (randn (100, 3), 'g+')Dec 25 11:24
schestowitzNiceDec 25 11:24
oiaohmNow what was I wanted for.  schestowitzDec 25 11:35
oiaohmLegally by Australian law the leaking source is the one possibley breakin the law.  schestowitzDec 25 11:36
oiaohmIe hosting leaked information here is not a crime.Dec 25 11:36
oiaohmschestowitz: have you received a formal take down request?Dec 25 11:38
oiaohmRules of safe harbour acting in good faith cannot be punished.Dec 25 11:39
oiaohmAlso you have made no secret that you have the docs.  schestowitzDec 25 11:40
oiaohmQuestion I also have from a legal point of view is how long you had the documents and they knew and how long have they failed to act.Dec 25 11:42
schestowitzThey didn't actDec 25 11:48
schestowitzIt was a veiled threat from Microsoft BrownDec 25 11:48
schestowitz[11:45] <oiaohm> Still around.Dec 25 11:48
schestowitz[11:46] <oiaohm> Boycott Novell webmaster Roy Schestovitz is not fazed by the possible legalities. He adds, "Feel free to pass around (or even ridicule) those ~60 megabytes of lock-in, which Microsoft won't let you see."Dec 25 11:48
schestowitz[11:46] <oiaohm> That quote there is risky to say the least.Dec 25 11:48
schestowitz[11:47] <schestowitz> At the timeDec 25 11:48
schestowitzYou have to remember the circumstance at the timeDec 25 11:48
schestowitzISO was occupied by croniesDec 25 11:48
schestowitzStill isDec 25 11:48
schestowitzAnd it hid an 'open' standardDec 25 11:49
schestowitzLater made it public IIRCDec 25 11:49
schestowitzOr something like thatDec 25 11:49
schestowitzoiaohm: http://techrights.org/2010/12/25/memories-of-alex-brown/Dec 25 11:50
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Alex Brown: The ‘Joe Lieberman’ of Microsoft | Techrights .::. Size~: 92.59 KBDec 25 11:50
oiaohmSo if they never sent you a forumal take down notice listing what was in breach but only sent you a threat they have screwed up.  schestowitzDec 25 11:50
schestowitzThey didn'tDec 25 11:51
schestowitzNobody didDec 25 11:51
oiaohmExactly.Dec 25 11:51
schestowitzAlex Brown who's Microsoft puppet made threatsDec 25 11:51
schestowitzVery disgusting onesDec 25 11:51
schestowitzHe was told off for itDec 25 11:51
oiaohmSafe harbour rules. You hare entiled to believe that your sources aquired the information legally.Dec 25 11:51
schestowitzBTWDec 25 11:51
schestowitzIt was leakedDec 25 11:51
schestowitzSomeone from the inside who knew of corruptionDec 25 11:52
schestowitzAnd there's sometimes protection for that type of thingDec 25 11:52
schestowitzLike when Software Strategy doc from the EU was leakedDec 25 11:52
oiaohmEven leaked if the person was the author of the documents is in side there right as the copyright holder to give you a copy.Dec 25 11:52
schestowitzTo Wikileaks in factDec 25 11:52
schestowitzcopyright is a censorship toolDec 25 11:52
schestowitzHere you have a 'public' 'standard'Dec 25 11:52
oiaohmTo use copyright you have to prove.Dec 25 11:52
schestowitzAnd they use copyright badlyDec 25 11:53
oiaohmThat the author was not the leak.Dec 25 11:53
oiaohmSo it come threw a third party?Dec 25 11:53
schestowitzCan't tellDec 25 11:54
schestowitzIt's a wikileaks leakDec 25 11:54
oiaohmIe going to wikileaks first adds a complexity.Dec 25 11:54
schestowitzNo need for PM, oiaohmDec 25 11:56
schestowitz[11:55] <oiaohm> This is off main channel for a reason.  Third party complexity is if only wikileaks was giving the right to host by the releasing person and they can present the releasing person saying that you have trouble.Dec 25 11:56
schestowitzWe don't do private stuffDec 25 11:56
oiaohmThis case it effects a third party.Dec 25 11:56
schestowitz[11:56] <oiaohm> But wikileaks also will have trouble.Dec 25 11:56
schestowitzNopeDec 25 11:56
schestowitzCause it's 2+ eyars agoDec 25 11:56
schestowitzAnd ISO never said a thing]Dec 25 11:56
schestowitzAlex is not ISODec 25 11:56
schestowitzAlex is a puppet for MicrosoftDec 25 11:57
oiaohmHmmDec 25 11:57
schestowitzISO is SwissDec 25 11:57
oiaohmWhat we need is a documented proff they knew of the documents in that time.Dec 25 11:57
schestowitzAlex is in the UKDec 25 11:57
oiaohmAnd did nothing.Dec 25 11:57
oiaohmThat basically voids all attacks.  You cannot have your cake and eat it to.Dec 25 11:57
oiaohmIe the leaked documents.Dec 25 11:58
oiaohmI don't see how they could not have known about them.Dec 25 11:58
schestowitzThey had bigger troubleDec 25 11:58
schestowitzISO reputationDec 25 11:58
schestowitzAnd no money was made with leaksDec 25 11:58
schestowitzThey can't claim financial damage, either, you see...Dec 25 11:59
oiaohmMostly you are safe.Dec 25 11:59
schestowitzBut the point is, leaking bad faith and behaviour is mostly unprotectedDec 25 11:59
schestowitzAnd that's why we need to help wikileaksDec 25 11:59
schestowitzLaw reforms..Dec 25 12:00
schestowitzAussie did not convict AssangeDec 25 12:00
oiaohmYou need to make 3 major statements on this.Dec 25 12:00
schestowitzBut he moved to SwedenDec 25 12:00
oiaohmNumber 1 you are hosting the files in good faith.Dec 25 12:00
schestowitzWhy did Julian go to the UK after Sweden and not UAustraliaDec 25 12:00
schestowitzI mean, the UK legal system is atrocious, why did he land there?Dec 25 12:00
oiaohmNumber 2 you never recieved any contact from the ISO saying to destroy them.Dec 25 12:00
schestowitzoiaohm: I wasn't hosting the filesDec 25 12:01
schestowitzIt was in mirrorsDec 25 12:01
schestowitzSet up on hosting servicesDec 25 12:01
schestowitzThat's where the files were mostly fetched fromDec 25 12:01
oiaohmHmmDec 25 12:01
oiaohmThe other thing most of those documents I saw lack confidental branding.Dec 25 12:01
schestowitzAnyway, the reason I made a post about it is wikileaksDec 25 12:02
schestowitzThey are gonna get whacked by Bank of AMericaDec 25 12:02
schestowitzAnd the latter can try to use copyrightsDec 25 12:02
schestowitzRemember:Dec 25 12:02
schestowitzUS govt. doesn't have copyright on cableDec 25 12:02
schestowitzBoA has the whole /commercial/ confidentiality thingDec 25 12:03
schestowitzAnd they have deep pockersDec 25 12:03
oiaohmReally they do have copyright on the cable.Dec 25 12:03
schestowitzAnd they have deep pocketsDec 25 12:03
oiaohmWe cannot claim the cables as our own.Dec 25 12:03
schestowitzWho paid for them?Dec 25 12:03
schestowitzThe publicDec 25 12:03
oiaohmThen we breach the copyright on the usa cablesDec 25 12:03
oiaohmcopyright has limited powers.   Fair uses is only a defence.Dec 25 12:04
oiaohmcopyright is about damages.   Pirating software you are reducing sales so causing damages.Dec 25 12:04
oiaohmcopyright is not intended to stop documents from being published.Dec 25 12:05
oiaohmOther major point is why is the ISO acting now.   Is there something else they don't want released.  schestowitzDec 25 12:06
oiaohmschestowitz: or have we missed something important in those documents.Dec 25 12:07
oiaohmschestowitz: I am sorry to say I feared this coming.   Hmm do you have any donation systems.  You can bet they will try to target those next.Dec 25 12:12
*schestowitz back from kitchenDec 25 12:13
oiaohmthey will most likely avoid legal action at any cost.  Since legal action opens up counter suit possiblities.Dec 25 12:14
schestowitzoiaohm: target who?Dec 25 12:14
schestowitzoiaohm: you realise this is history, right?Dec 25 12:14
schestowitz2008Dec 25 12:14
schestowitzMaybe you wrongly think it's newsDec 25 12:15
schestowitzWe're in 2011 almostDec 25 12:15
oiaohmI am thinking you have been a thorn in there side.Dec 25 12:15
schestowitzAges agoDec 25 12:15
oiaohmSo now they are going to try to shut you down and they will not care that what they are using in from 2008Dec 25 12:15
schestowitzI don't have new leaks on themDec 25 12:15
schestowitzoiaohm: no, you missed my pointDec 25 12:16
schestowitzNothing happened since thenDec 25 12:16
oiaohmI am not missing your point.Dec 25 12:16
schestowitzTHis is like a history lessonDec 25 12:16
oiaohmThe successful use of Mastercard and others against like file download sites.Dec 25 12:17
schestowitzNot relatedDec 25 12:17
schestowitzThat's a wikileaks issue (new)Dec 25 12:17
oiaohmI will not be supprised if in the near future they will try attacking you.Dec 25 12:17
schestowitzNobody is suingDec 25 12:17
schestowitzBut...Dec 25 12:17
schestowitzBoA might try to use Wikileaks like Baer once triedDec 25 12:18
oiaohmfar backwards they can make the mastercard and other items work.Dec 25 12:18
schestowitzmastercard and visa are close to BoADec 25 12:18
schestowitzAlmost joined by the hipDec 25 12:18
oiaohmUp until the wikileaks mess lot of people did not think you could use mastercard and visa as a cut off supply system.Dec 25 12:19
schestowitzAnd DNSDec 25 12:19
oiaohmI have not sean a donation link on your site.  But if you have one watch that it stays working.Dec 25 12:19
schestowitzAlthough EveryDNS blamed  "ddos"Dec 25 12:20
schestowitzAmazon and Apple censoredDec 25 12:20
oiaohmThe iso leaks they are highly unlikely to ever want to go to court.Dec 25 12:20
oiaohmSimple reason the leaks document a lot of things that might be criminal actions.Dec 25 12:20
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/donate/Dec 25 12:20
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Donate | Techrights .::. Size~: 73.39 KBDec 25 12:20
oiaohmBut cutting off money on the other hand not requiring to go to court.Dec 25 12:21
oiaohmI would not put past them.Dec 25 12:21
oiaohmYes the foundation under our feet has moved.  And we have to be aware of that fact.Dec 25 12:21
schestowitzFor wikileaks it's an issueDec 25 12:22
schestowitzBut they carry onDec 25 12:22
schestowitzand flattr helps pay them, tooDec 25 12:22
oiaohmI would suggest broading you payment systems.Dec 25 12:22
oiaohmThis is just prep work basically being a few steps ahead.Dec 25 12:23
oiaohmI would also not put it past MS to let a leak go then try to use it to shut you and others down.  schestowitzDec 25 12:23
schestowitz"Visual Automation Ltd. was formed in 1995 and is wholly owned by the University of Manchester through its intellectual property management company UMIP Ltd."Dec 25 12:25
schestowitzBTWDec 25 12:25
schestowitzThat's the company created by a former person following a similar route to mineDec 25 12:25
schestowitzoiaohm: noDec 25 12:26
schestowitzIt's old newsDec 25 12:26
schestowitzAbout OOXMLDec 25 12:26
schestowitzYou're making something out of nothing or at least something that's historicalDec 25 12:26
oiaohmI believing in being ready.Dec 25 12:26
oiaohmI don't trust MS to play fair.Dec 25 12:27
oiaohmThere is a lot to learn from how wikileaks was attacked.Dec 25 12:28
oiaohmLike don't depend just on payment systems from the USA.Dec 25 12:28
schestowitzhttp://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/business/spinout/kestra/ "In April 1999 Kestra was sold to US company CyberOptics Corporation for approx. £7 million."Dec 25 12:29
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Kestra (School of Computer Science - The University of Manchester) .::. Size~: 14.53 KBDec 25 12:29
schestowitzoiaohm: I know, but it's a side issueDec 25 12:29
schestowitzI brought that up only cause of that xmas postDec 25 12:29
schestowitzTo remind people we too get attackedDec 25 12:30
oiaohmAnd from reading it I was reminded as well.Dec 25 12:30
schestowitzhttp://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/business/spinout/transitive/Dec 25 12:30
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Transitive (School of Computer Science - The University of Manchester) .::. Size~: 15.86 KBDec 25 12:30
schestowitzI knew some people from this one..Dec 25 12:30
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, but it's old newsDec 25 12:31
schestowitzNo need debating it muchDec 25 12:31
oiaohmReally we should document how wikileaks was attackedDec 25 12:31
schestowitzI'm currently checking VC stuffDec 25 12:31
schestowitzTomorrow I'll get back to doing postsDec 25 12:31
schestowitzoiaohm: not really, simply because others have done itDec 25 12:31
oiaohmAnd the counter methods to reduce risk of damage.Dec 25 12:31
schestowitzoiaohm: many people look and write about wikileaks this monthDec 25 12:32
schestowitzI didn't do any posts about itDec 25 12:32
schestowitzI referred to cablesDec 25 12:32
schestowitzAnd sometimes I mentioned it in my personal blog or some sentenceDec 25 12:32
oiaohmMost did reports on there attacks not how to counter them.Dec 25 12:32
schestowitzIt's already well covered by other sites that I can simply link toDec 25 12:32
schestowitzoiaohm: some reported on which services to avoidDec 25 12:32
schestowitzI also talked about it in techbytesDec 25 12:33
schestowitzLike ep. 20 or soDec 25 12:33
schestowitzHow they should distribute, use encryption, free software (no copyright as weapon to call them "pirates")Dec 25 12:33
oiaohmclubcompy hmmDec 25 12:34
oiaohmThat is worrying.Dec 25 12:34
oiaohmLooks like its a pure online thing.Dec 25 12:34
schestowitzWHat is?Dec 25 12:38
schestowitzclubcompy?Dec 25 12:38
oiaohmHmm now were did I pick this link up from.Dec 25 12:39
oiaohmhttp://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/12/25/0257259/A-Real-World-HTML-5-Benchmark  Ok slashdotDec 25 12:39
TechrightsBot-scTitle: A Real World HTML 5 Benchmark - Slashdot .::. Size~: 135.98 KBDec 25 12:39
oiaohmI thought it was out of the irc channel here for some reason sorry schestowitzDec 25 12:40
oiaohmBasically clubcompy is teaching kids old school basic.Dec 25 12:40
oiaohmIn a online form.Dec 25 12:40
oiaohmReally I see this as worring.Dec 25 12:40
oiaohmWe need basic gone.Dec 25 12:40
schestowitzlike w3schools?Dec 25 12:40
*schestowitz looksDec 25 12:40
oiaohmNo the programs run threw there site aloneDec 25 12:41
oiaohmYes cloud evil.  schestowitzDec 25 12:41
schestowitzhttps://clubcompy.com/rwBench.jspDec 25 12:41
TechrightsBot-scTitle: ClubCompy » Real-World Browser Benchmark .::. Size~: 27.17 KBDec 25 12:41
oiaohmhttps://clubcompy.com/tos.jsp?ft=1293263570000  Yep there Terms of Service sux.Dec 25 12:43
TechrightsBot-scTitle: ClubCompy.com Terms of Service .::. Size~: 9.78 KBDec 25 12:43
oiaohmBasically the realworld benchmark thing is a good self advertisement.   schestowitzDec 25 12:44
MinceRhttp://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs032.snc6/166199_10100635497494741_2033402_74650482_550603_n.jpgDec 25 12:49
TechrightsBot-scNot a web page! Aborting image/jpeg typeDec 25 12:49
oiaohmCatch here MinceR Doc and Prostitue you get to choose if you are aware enough what one gets to touch you junk.Dec 25 12:52
schestowitzJust created http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/PortugalDec 25 12:53
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Portugal - Techrights .::. Size~: 15.4 KBDec 25 12:53
schestowitzAlso new: http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/SpainDec 25 13:00
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Spain - Techrights .::. Size~: 13.53 KBDec 25 13:00
schestowitzI'm trying to organise the site rather than just adding new storiesDec 25 13:00
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/HungaryDec 25 13:04
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Hungary - Techrights .::. Size~: 13.55 KBDec 25 13:04
oiaohmhttp://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/3918311/Yes-Virginia-There-Is-a-Santa-Claus-Google.htm  Do you know this author.  schestowitzDec 25 13:04
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Yes, Virginia, There Is a Santa Claus: Google! — Datamation.com .::. Size~: 80.77 KBDec 25 13:04
schestowitzYesDec 25 13:05
schestowitzElganDec 25 13:05
schestowitzHe calls himself a WIndows fanboy IIRCDec 25 13:05
*schestowitz gets sleepy, goes get coffeeeDec 25 13:07
oiaohmSuspected so.Dec 25 13:07
schestowitzslept 7 hours last night!!Dec 25 13:07
schestowitzFar more than usual :-)Dec 25 13:07
oiaohmThat looked nice by the way its written has nasty under tones.Dec 25 13:07
schestowitzWhat was?Dec 25 13:12
schestowitzOh, TSADec 25 13:12
schestowitzOh, TFADec 25 13:12
schestowitzI didn't read itDec 25 13:12
schestowitzI used to write for that site BTWDec 25 13:12
schestowitzDatamationDec 25 13:12
schestowitzQuadrescence: I've looked into funding from Manhester University and it looks unlikely because they fund business which deals with direct output of researchDec 25 13:13
schestowitzIf we were to start a services-based company (I need to check further, I'll also have Toby read the log), then funding must come from elsewhere to start it offDec 25 13:13
schestowitzI'll write more about it when Toby is here, even if that means when he's back to Canada next monthDec 25 13:14
schestowitzQuadrescence: next week I can speak about those references from Manchester, a presentation to be given soon (on the subject that embodies my research), and maybe demonstrate some of my latest workDec 25 13:21
schestowitz(which now involves running and recording (in video) experiments that are run to help improve the tracking while also measuring some items/properties of interest.)Dec 25 13:21
schestowitzI'm hoping to get some 'back' (support) in case I leave academia aside and start a company, it's not safe to walk alone and it'll be good to have each other as contingenciesDec 25 13:22
schestowitzE.g. if one of us gets many clients, then we can fly over to help where there's deployment opportunity... then again, I need to research this moreDec 25 13:22
schestowitzLike I said, some other Ph.D graduates of my supervisor started their own companies and did well for themselves this wayDec 25 13:23
schestowitzHaving you and Toby with the right skills and already knowing each other sounds like a good thing, esp. now that companies look for s/w to get rid of (like MATLAB) to cut costsDec 25 13:23
schestowitzI see people here asking me to help them move to Free software (Octave) and some moving to LinuxDec 25 13:24
schestowitzSo surely some of them would pay for itDec 25 13:24
schestowitzI met a friend this morning and spoke to him for about an hourDec 25 13:26
oiaohmParticularly when you concider the long term savings.  schestowitzDec 25 13:26
schestowitzHis doubt is only to do with whether I have better ways to use my timeDec 25 13:27
oiaohmLot of maths stuff is reused over and over again.Dec 25 13:27
schestowitzBut I reckon if there's not many clients I can carry on with techrightsDec 25 13:27
schestowitzConsulting is not a 9-5 jobDec 25 13:27
schestowitzoiaohm: yesDec 25 13:27
schestowitzANd MATLAB licences got more expensivesDec 25 13:27
schestowitzIt's like Oracle DBsDec 25 13:28
schestowitzThey lock your dataDec 25 13:28
schestowitzI'm very good at MATLAB, so I can code around the incompats for themDec 25 13:28
schestowitzBasically tweaking and deployingDec 25 13:28
oiaohmEven if there is too much for you.  There is always a chance you can meet other people along the way who need the work.Dec 25 13:28
schestowitzBut Octave lacks JITDec 25 13:28
schestowitzWe can always add more machines (FOSS stack) at the cost of one MATLAB licenceDec 25 13:28
oiaohmJIT in what language.Dec 25 13:29
schestowitzI just don't think Toby has MATLAB experienceDec 25 13:29
schestowitzI think Quadrescence has itDec 25 13:29
schestowitzBut he can code in C++ and patch OtaveDec 25 13:29
schestowitzAnd a friend of mine in the UK started Sirius ITDec 25 13:29
schestowitzThey do consulting around FOSS, very succcessfulDec 25 13:29
schestowitzSome of their revenue they give to projects like KDEDec 25 13:30
schestowitzoiaohm: MATLAB syntaxDec 25 13:30
schestowitzYou can optimise in ad hoc waysDec 25 13:30
schestowitzLike loop optimisationsDec 25 13:30
schestowitzIf people don't know how to vectorise things, then too there's room for improvement behind the scenesDec 25 13:30
schestowitzoiaohm: Toby has the advantage is being close to Australia tooDec 25 13:31
schestowitzSo it just happens that we have people in UK, US, AU, and CADec 25 13:31
schestowitz*IF*Dec 25 13:31
schestowitzI reckon he'll say yes cause he asked me to keep him in the loopDec 25 13:32
schestowitzI think he's in marketing now but wanting to go back to pure ITDec 25 13:32
schestowitzQuadrescence seems to be awayDec 25 13:32
schestowitzOtherwise he would talk.Dec 25 13:32
schestowitzoiaohm: did you code any project?Dec 25 13:33
oiaohmschestowitz: Normally not.Dec 25 13:33
oiaohmI do solutions for clients.Dec 25 13:33
schestowitzI know you said you're an admin type, but did you write and publish a program?Dec 25 13:33
oiaohmBut I personally hate coding.Dec 25 13:33
schestowitzoiaohm: so does tessierDec 25 13:33
schestowitzAs I understand it, he services clients like you doDec 25 13:33
schestowitzBut under a bossDec 25 13:33
schestowitzHe wants to do it independenlyDec 25 13:34
schestowitzSo he has this new siteDec 25 13:34
schestowitzHe's a VM and Asterisk person I thinkDec 25 13:34
schestowitzLinux orientedDec 25 13:34
oiaohmI set myself up independantly due to lack of work from 1 bossDec 25 13:34
oiaohmBut that grew.Dec 25 13:34
schestowitzThe trouble is building up reputation and getting clients to recommend you to the next clientDec 25 13:34
oiaohmI have adviceDec 25 13:34
oiaohmGet friendly with an accountant.Dec 25 13:35
oiaohmAnd there staff.Dec 25 13:35
schestowitzCause the type of startup I have in mind is not so much to do with coding our ownDec 25 13:35
oiaohmThey are some of the best refers I get.Dec 25 13:35
schestowitzRather, deploying and then testing and tweaking codeDec 25 13:35
oiaohmIe they know the ones who will pay there bills and will not.Dec 25 13:35
schestowitzSo one needs to know the code and be aware of the programsDec 25 13:35
schestowitzI spent a decade with this stuffDec 25 13:35
schestowitzoiaohm: do you have a registered company?Dec 25 13:36
schestowitzFor consulting with registry for tax purposes?Dec 25 13:36
oiaohmIn my own name yes.Dec 25 13:36
schestowitzGot a site?Dec 25 13:36
oiaohmNot at this stage.Dec 25 13:36
schestowitzOKDec 25 13:36
oiaohmMy work is all locally sourced.Dec 25 13:36
schestowitzWhat's the service you offer?Dec 25 13:37
schestowitzSurely you sell skill, i.e. serviceDec 25 13:37
oiaohmOk 400 km radus locally sourced.Dec 25 13:37
oiaohmIts a mixture of stuff.  Network adminstration.  System design.Dec 25 13:37
oiaohmTraining of staff that I find fun.Dec 25 13:37
schestowitzOh, that...Dec 25 13:38
schestowitzDo you present well?Dec 25 13:38
schestowitzIIRC you worried about your comms skillsDec 25 13:38
oiaohmMy clients understand my limits.Dec 25 13:38
oiaohmThey have had bad IT officers before me.Dec 25 13:39
schestowitzStartup is a risky thing in some case. But for software services the initial investment is zero almost.Dec 25 13:39
schestowitzIn your case, you don't even need to pay for site hostingDec 25 13:39
schestowitzNot buying shop investoryDec 25 13:39
schestowitzOr office on leaseDec 25 13:39
oiaohmYep a buy on demard.Dec 25 13:39
oiaohmBiggest cost is mobile phones.Dec 25 13:39
oiaohmYes I have a habit of destroying them.Dec 25 13:40
schestowitzThat's what I'm sniffing about at the momentDec 25 13:40
schestowitzWorst case if you get little business and spend time on other mattersDec 25 13:40
oiaohmService Level Agreements.Dec 25 13:40
oiaohmMake up my base level of pay.Dec 25 13:40
oiaohmSo much per month even if I do nothing.Dec 25 13:40
schestowitzUniversity of Manchester incubator is not needed here, there is a science park near the UniversityDec 25 13:41
schestowitzIt gives low-cost space for some companiesDec 25 13:41
schestowitzI visited it in 2003Dec 25 13:41
oiaohmYes I am paid if I successly pull of having todo nothing.Dec 25 13:41
schestowitzSome Web companies were based there for interaction among staffDec 25 13:41
oiaohmWhat I am quite good at doing.Dec 25 13:41
schestowitzHmmm...Dec 25 13:41
schestowitzMaybe we don't need to look for investors firstDec 25 13:42
oiaohmMy style is the cheepest to setup and run.  schestowitzDec 25 13:42
schestowitzI can't think of high expenses except marketing the service by contacting MATLAB clientsDec 25 13:42
schestowitzThe goal is finding out who wants to cut cost of MATLAB licences, then offer them GNU Octave with GNU/LinuxDec 25 13:43
schestowitzThe specialised skill needed here is MATLAB/OctaveDec 25 13:43
schestowitzoiaohm: yesDec 25 13:43
oiaohmIts simpler for me.Dec 25 13:43
schestowitzBut...Dec 25 13:43
oiaohmSince I am such a all rounder.Dec 25 13:43
schestowitzYou have no guarantee, income-wiseDec 25 13:43
oiaohmI do with the SLA's.Dec 25 13:43
schestowitzVC is not a priority for nowDec 25 13:44
oiaohmThey have taken me a long term to build.Dec 25 13:44
schestowitzBut I know people who can hand out money to help kickstart as a personal favourDec 25 13:44
schestowitzoiaohm: how many clients do you pull as private business?Dec 25 13:44
schestowitzIf you have no site, then you rely on word of mouth/phoneDec 25 13:44
oiaohmIn SLA over 40.Dec 25 13:44
oiaohmLast count.Dec 25 13:45
schestowitzOr maybe you pull aside people who work with your bossDec 25 13:45
schestowitzIn which case you risk your job, tooDec 25 13:45
schestowitzRemember where "FUD" came fromDec 25 13:45
schestowitzThe term coined by former IBMerDec 25 13:45
schestowitzWho used his IBM skills to make a consultancy on the side IIRCDec 25 13:45
oiaohmEach of those pays me 5 hours a month 100 percent for sure.  schestowitzDec 25 13:45
oiaohmYes where the art setting up systems correctly come in.Dec 25 13:46
schestowitzUK AU CA and US are basically something that can be reached if we share resourcesDec 25 13:46
schestowitzBut I don't know others in the UK who are good at MATLAB and are close to meDec 25 13:46
oiaohmBasically SLA is where the core money is.Dec 25 13:46
schestowitzActually, one colleague is...Dec 25 13:46
schestowitzBut he's in academia stillDec 25 13:46
schestowitzPostdoc and satisfiedDec 25 13:46
schestowitzPArt-time in BelgradeDec 25 13:47
oiaohmCustom services what you Matlab/octave falls under would be a fun side project.Dec 25 13:47
schestowitzYeahDec 25 13:47
schestowitzBut you might need to know the syntaxDec 25 13:47
schestowitzSome things not implemented in octaveDec 25 13:47
schestowitzThat's where you need to write custom codeDec 25 13:47
schestowitzI'm good at thatDec 25 13:47
schestowitzKDE and QtoctaveDec 25 13:47
oiaohmOk I have 3 levels of SLA's.Dec 25 13:47
oiaohmthe 40 are my core type.Dec 25 13:48
schestowitzKDE cause of QtDec 25 13:48
schestowitzKDE4 is very stableDec 25 13:48
schestowitzNever crashed on me (whole session)Dec 25 13:48
schestowitzoiaohm: so you could handle more?Dec 25 13:48
schestowitzI mean...Dec 25 13:48
schestowitzToby comes from .auDec 25 13:48
oiaohmYes without issues.Dec 25 13:48
schestowitz=FurnaceBoy BTWDec 25 13:48
oiaohmYou think how much time I can spend online.Dec 25 13:48
schestowitzAnd if one could advertise as covering Australia too then it's more potential contacts and coverage for servicesDec 25 13:49
oiaohmI don't take short cuts building servers.Dec 25 13:49
schestowitzAnd we could always use other people over the Net if you need custom codeDec 25 13:49
oiaohmResults is servers that run basically 100 percent dependable.Dec 25 13:49
schestowitzPhysical presence needed for deploymentDec 25 13:49
schestowitzRest can be done with E-mail etc.Dec 25 13:49
oiaohmssh with port knocking?Dec 25 13:50
schestowitzI know MATLAB is a huge marketDec 25 13:50
schestowitzLike a billion dollarsDec 25 13:50
schestowitzYou can find their clients and propose to cut down their MATLAB expensesDec 25 13:50
schestowitzScilab and octave mostlyDec 25 13:50
oiaohmActive work ie where I have todo stuff.  Is about 20 hours a month.  schestowitzDec 25 13:50
schestowitzBut also ImageMagick and other tools I learned about the past 2 monthsDec 25 13:50
oiaohmyes that is with the client base I have.Dec 25 13:50
schestowitzOK, goodDec 25 13:51
oiaohmSo there is tons of room for me.Dec 25 13:51
schestowitzIf we decide it's a safe route, then need site, logo, registration, laptops, etc.Dec 25 13:51
schestowitzIt involved travelling a lotDec 25 13:51
schestowitzI stopped using laptops in 2005Dec 25 13:51
schestowitzMight buy a new one next month anywayDec 25 13:52
oiaohmDoing repairs for businesses I can be lucky and get laptops for free.Dec 25 13:52
schestowitzI worry about one thing: how to approach or be approached by those whom I see here looking to get rid of MATLAB costs.Dec 25 13:52
schestowitzEveryone I speak to in universiries hates itDec 25 13:52
schestowitzThe uni pays for campus-wqise licencesDec 25 13:52
oiaohmI also have a friend who does bankrupt business hardware clean ups.  schestowitzDec 25 13:53
schestowitzBut staff and students can't put that on private laptops and homeDec 25 13:53
schestowitzI spoke to some professors about itDec 25 13:53
oiaohmIf he need a hand what he has not in a while.  If there is a laptop there I get it free.Dec 25 13:53
oiaohmAnd legal.Dec 25 13:53
schestowitzAnd I reckon this took so much time, why not turn it into something that addresses the need?Dec 25 13:53
schestowitzRather than me doing it while I'm supposed to do researchDec 25 13:54
oiaohmReally cannot you do both.Dec 25 13:54
schestowitzmarketing material not needed if there's word of mouthDec 25 13:54
schestowitzoiaohm: that's what I do nowDec 25 13:54
oiaohmresearch what real world requires out of students.  schestowitzDec 25 13:54
schestowitzHalf the time at the university I deal with non-research stuffDec 25 13:55
oiaohmIn the process of helping companies improve there system.Dec 25 13:55
schestowitzStudents need to have s/w controlled to run their programDec 25 13:55
oiaohmYes I am kinda dispecable this way.Dec 25 13:55
schestowitzIt' unjust for graduate students to leave with their code which can't be run without paying $700 for MATLABDec 25 13:55
oiaohmGetting paid twice three times for the same hour is nice.Dec 25 13:55
schestowitzThey give it 'for free' to studentsDec 25 13:55
schestowitzThen the code is hostage/random scenarioDec 25 13:56
schestowitzMATLAB is expensive, so people would pay a lot for help avoiding the tax associated with itDec 25 13:56
oiaohmI know the argument you are going to run into.Dec 25 13:56
oiaohmBut business uses Matlab arguement.Dec 25 13:56
oiaohmSo students has to know it.Dec 25 13:56
schestowitzI know people who made business from MATLAB consulting, but I was a Ph.D. student when I saw other people doing itDec 25 13:56
schestowitzIt's wrong routeDec 25 13:57
schestowitzThey helped MATLABDec 25 13:57
schestowitzRather than helping people replace itDec 25 13:57
schestowitzoiaohm: depends where.Dec 25 13:57
schestowitzLike in hospitals... they might not mindDec 25 13:57
schestowitzI'm close to making campus offer optionDec 25 13:58
schestowitzOctave OR MATLABDec 25 13:58
schestowitzLike OOo or OfficeDec 25 13:58
schestowitzMy doctorate and experience can help attract support from staff ('customers') and fundingDec 25 13:58
schestowitzBut that's not the pointDec 25 13:58
schestowitzThe point is, you can make a Windows->Linux migration a businessDec 25 13:58
schestowitzSo doing good for FOSS and also making money in the processDec 25 13:59
schestowitzIf the group of us is well spread in all the English-speaking countries (site/material in one language is needed) with cpp skills, MATLAB, Toby has links in marketing, Linux, academic and numerical skills...Dec 25 14:00
schestowitz'Marketing' as in getting the word out is not too hard either because we're not islands on the Web. Some of us have influential blogs and Twitter accounts, all promoting Free software, connection with companies, professors, etc. So maybe we can pull this off, assuming there's a place to start, e.g. universities.Dec 25 14:01
oiaohmOpenOffice still has a lot of issues particularly in CalcDec 25 14:06
oiaohmYou are not dealing with these with Octave.Dec 25 14:06
oiaohmIe Octave basically works as it should.Dec 25 14:06
oiaohmI know my bug bears to migration to open source.Dec 25 14:07
oiaohmLegacy code is a pain in ass.Dec 25 14:07
oiaohmCalc being slow.Dec 25 14:07
oiaohmThe outlook stuck people.Dec 25 14:07
oiaohmAnd the resistant staff.Dec 25 14:08
oiaohmReally I don't know how dug in Matlab persoanal will be.Dec 25 14:08
oiaohmBig key thing I wish would just work then I could do a lot of migrations is.  Samba 4.Dec 25 14:10
schestowitzQuadrescence: when you're back, mind if we swap CVs so that we know each other's technical background?Dec 25 14:10
oiaohmLot of windows programs fail due to lacking NTFS filesystem structs Samba 4 can do.Dec 25 14:10
schestowitzOutlook and Exchange are an issueDec 25 14:11
oiaohmBut Samba 3 cannot.Dec 25 14:11
schestowitzBut Outlook is a messDec 25 14:11
oiaohmopenchange has exchange hammered once we get Samba 4Dec 25 14:11
oiaohmThat it needs for back end.Dec 25 14:11
schestowitzI know cause someone who uses it around here keeps thinking it's OK for mail client to take half an hour to startDec 25 14:11
schestowitzIf power goes down, she then needs to wait for Outlook to do somethingDec 25 14:11
schestowitzLike recoveryDec 25 14:11
schestowitzDoesn't happen with ThunderbirdDec 25 14:12
oiaohmO yes it does.Dec 25 14:12
schestowitzDefinitely not half an hourDec 25 14:12
oiaohmThunderbird damaged mail takes ages.Dec 25 14:12
oiaohmBut its rarer event.Dec 25 14:12
schestowitzIt can use deadlocks to ensure data is not deleted from servers until after it's written _to disk_Dec 25 14:12
schestowitzThunderbird crashes are rare, and I never lost data due to themDec 25 14:12
oiaohmI have never lost data from them.Dec 25 14:13
oiaohmBut some of the worst have require rebuilding of the mail stores manually.Dec 25 14:13
schestowitzYou're more likely to lose mail due to spam filtersDec 25 14:13
oiaohmYet it was atleast doable.Dec 25 14:13
schestowitzNot yoursDec 25 14:13
schestowitzISP'sDec 25 14:13
schestowitzI lost lots of mail cause the ISPs wrongly intercepts things I expectDec 25 14:13
oiaohmWorst one was kinda evil with Thunderbird.Dec 25 14:13
schestowitzThat's what catalysed me starting to dump EmaulDec 25 14:13
oiaohmuser though they had lost everything.Dec 25 14:14
schestowitzEven IRC is more reliableDec 25 14:14
oiaohmLogged in Thunderbird was displaying no mail at all.Dec 25 14:14
oiaohmWould not retreave mail because of a really strange error.Dec 25 14:14
schestowitzStill in ~/.thunderbirdDec 25 14:14
schestowitzand with backups it's not a problemDec 25 14:14
schestowitzCompare to .PST fileDec 25 14:14
schestowitzWith everythingDec 25 14:14
schestowitzOneCare popped itDec 25 14:15
schestowitzKilled people's entire boxesDec 25 14:15
schestowitzAt least .mbox is typically spreadDec 25 14:15
oiaohmI can recover .PST from Onecare opps.Dec 25 14:15
schestowitzand maildir more soDec 25 14:15
schestowitzBut messes up FS with lots of small filesDec 25 14:15
oiaohm.PST screws up worst from over MAX filesize.Dec 25 14:15
schestowitz1gb?Dec 25 14:15
schestowitz4?Dec 25 14:15
oiaohmDepends on vesion of outlookDec 25 14:16
oiaohm2 to 4Dec 25 14:16
schestowitzIIRC Windows chokes at low sizeDec 25 14:16
oiaohmgbDec 25 14:16
schestowitzThat's why I backup with splitDec 25 14:16
schestowitzHistorically, some ext. HDDs I had were preformatted with FATDec 25 14:16
schestowitzOf course it annoyed me enough to later wipe themDec 25 14:16
oiaohmYes outlook max file size has nothing todo with filesystem most of the time.Dec 25 14:16
schestowitzAnd put ext3 on allDec 25 14:16
oiaohmInternal outlook limit.Dec 25 14:17
schestowitzIt also didn't deal with some filenames Linux handles OKDec 25 14:17
oiaohmI am off to bed I have to be up for boxing day sales.Dec 25 14:17
oiaohmI need a new air compressor.Dec 25 14:17
oiaohmborked the old one.Dec 25 14:17
schestowitzNow I just run mkdir /media/disk-1/Home/`date +%Y-%m-%d`  tar -cf - /home/roy|split -b 1000m - /media/disk-1/Home/`date +%Y-%m-%d`/Home-`date +%Y-%m-%d`.tar.Dec 25 14:18
oiaohmFor some reason they don't like being hit by a truck.Dec 25 14:18
schestowitzHmmmm.. truck eh?Dec 25 14:18
oiaohmReversed over it.Dec 25 14:18
oiaohmOne of those moments of carelessness we all have.Dec 25 14:19
oiaohmand I would have to pick a 20 l air compressor todo it to.Dec 25 14:19
schestowitzYikesDec 25 14:20
oiaohmNo truck damage.Dec 25 14:20
oiaohm20 percent off for boxing day.Dec 25 14:21
oiaohmFrom one hardware store every year.Dec 25 14:21
oiaohmYes its truly 20 percent off.Dec 25 14:21
oiaohmAt least I did it the right time of year.Dec 25 14:22
*oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Dec 25 14:22
schestowitz> Dear Doctor Roy,Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz>Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz> #forgive me for not giving you rest but look at this:Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz>Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/12/what-traitorwareDec 25 14:25
TechrightsBot-scTitle: What is Traitorware? | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 19.98 KBDec 25 14:25
schestowitz>Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz> The EFF says "likely to see more traitorware on the horizon. When thatDec 25 14:25
schestowitz> happens, EFF will be there to fight it. "Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz>Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz> But at Techrights we've been fighting it since it showed up & surelyDec 25 14:25
schestowitz> will make a lot of noise to make people aware of it!Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz>Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz> Feliz Navidad!Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz>Dec 25 14:25
schestowitz> Sincerely,Dec 25 14:25
schestowitztoday I madeDec 25 14:26
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/SpainDec 25 14:26
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Spain - Techrights .::. Size~: 13.53 KBDec 25 14:26
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/PortugalDec 25 14:26
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Portugal - Techrights .::. Size~: 15.4 KBDec 25 14:26
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/EspanolDec 25 14:26
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Español - Techrights .::. Size~: 19.7 KBDec 25 14:26
schestowitzThis page ought to have some introduction in Spanish about what Free/libre software is. Many visitors won't know.Dec 25 14:27
schestowitzHelp me expand it.... if you know SpanishDec 25 14:27
Quadrescence[08:10.24] <schestowitz> Quadrescence: when you're back, mind if we swap CVs so that we know each other's technical background?Dec 25 14:30
QuadrescenceSure.Dec 25 14:30
QuadrescenceBut you won't be impressed by my formal academic work.Dec 25 14:30
Quadrescenceschestowitz: I might be able to expand it (I can write Spanish)Dec 25 14:31
schestowitzQuadrescence: cool, you're a LaTeX person tooDec 25 14:48
schestowitzIs Toby?Dec 25 14:48
QuadrescenceToby used to be, I know. In fact, I think he ported TeX onto the Transputer in like 1980. :DDec 25 14:48
QuadrescenceI don't think he does TeX very often now.Dec 25 14:48
schestowitzI don't use office suitesDec 25 14:55
schestowitzWHich bothers some peopleDec 25 14:55
schestowitzI find them not so confining, just tending to produce ugly output and bothring the user with layout where they need notDec 25 14:56
schestowitzBut typesetting can have higher learning curve, unless one uses kile or lyxDec 25 14:56
schestowitzlyx has added some functionality recentlyDec 25 14:56
schestowitzSome things I needed to work in raw tex for are not in tex GUIDec 25 14:57
schestowitz*I mean __lyx_ GUIDec 25 14:57
schestowitzbookmarks, floats spamming two columns, etc.Dec 25 14:57
QuadrescenceYeahDec 25 14:57
schestowitzNo need to add /tex blocks or edit the preamble manually eitherDec 25 14:57
QuadrescenceI don't quite like LyX for the same reason I don't like office suites. But LyX is certainly better then those.Dec 25 14:58
schestowitzI used to have to look at my old documents, cause without GUI it's hard to memorise what you may as well have done years beforehandDec 25 14:58
schestowitzQuadrescence: which version?Dec 25 14:58
schestowitzI use 1.6.5Dec 25 14:58
schestowitzBack when I did my thesis it was like 1.3.xDec 25 14:59
QuadrescenceThe last version I tried was 1.6.7Dec 25 14:59
schestowitzIt now has version control, tooDec 25 14:59
schestowitzAlthough it's buggyDec 25 14:59
schestowitzIt crashes it for me if I undo a lotDec 25 14:59
QuadrescenceWith emacs, you some of the nice things from LyX. :)Dec 25 14:59
schestowitzI haven't tried kile for agesDec 25 15:00
Quadrescencehttp://lh5.ggpht.com/gongyi.liao/RxWgkE6PbWI/AAAAAAAAAGU/0LSziDuf9YU/s800/Screenshot-Emacs-AUCTEX.pngDec 25 15:00
TechrightsBot-scNot a web page! Aborting image/png typeDec 25 15:00
Quadrescencehttp://lh6.ggpht.com/_egN-3IJO0Xg/SpImc2gIlrI/AAAAAAAABkI/pY2MNrFeAVY/preview-latex-small.pngDec 25 15:00
TechrightsBot-scNot a web page! Aborting image/png typeDec 25 15:00
Quadrescencehttp://blogfiles.sidstamm.com/pics/preview-latex.jpgDec 25 15:00
TechrightsBot-scNot a web page! Aborting image/jpeg typeDec 25 15:00
Quadrescence:)Dec 25 15:00
schestowitzQuadrescence: I'll have Toby read the logs when he comes backDec 25 15:01
schestowitzoiaohm says he's willing to help tooDec 25 15:01
schestowitzHe's in .auDec 25 15:01
schestowitzHe already registered for consulting on his ownDec 25 15:01
schestowitzThe advantage of collaborating is that you need only produce one site/docs to market in all English-speaking countriesDec 25 15:02
QuadrescenceRightDec 25 15:02
schestowitzI could in principle travel in EuropeDec 25 15:02
schestowitzAnd I can get appointment with s/w people in universitiesDec 25 15:02
schestowitzThe head of software procurement in Manchester U. is a former colleague of mineDec 25 15:03
schestowitzIn Manchester ComoutingDec 25 15:03
schestowitz*COmputingDec 25 15:03
schestowitzAnd I have some connections near MathWorks, maybe I can fetch list of their clients (legally)Dec 25 15:03
schestowitzQuadrescence: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2010/12/25/free-matlab-replacements/Dec 25 15:40
TechrightsBot-scTitle: schestowitz.com  » Blog Archive   » GNU Octave a Compatible Drop-in Replacement for MATLAB .::. Size~: 35.35 KBDec 25 15:40
schestowitzI'm doing another postDec 25 15:41
*gnufreex (~quassel@109-92-207-205.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) has joined #boycottnovell-socialDec 25 15:41
schestowitzI'm preparing a qtoctave demoDec 25 15:46
Quadrescenceschestowitz: Remember JordiGH?Dec 25 16:15
Quadrescenceschestowitz: whether you do or not, he does speak Spanish natively/fluently and is pro-free/libre softwareDec 25 16:15
QuadrescenceMaybe I could get him to expand the wiki in Spanish a littleDec 25 16:16
schestowitzYes, please!Dec 25 16:23
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2010/12/25/qtoctave-screenshots/Dec 25 16:48
TechrightsBot-scTitle: schestowitz.com  » Blog Archive   » Visual Tour of QtOctave .::. Size~: 40.45 KBDec 25 16:48
*sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell-socialDec 25 17:06
sebsebsebMerry ChristmasDec 25 17:06
schestowitzJust got some more support from a mate......Dec 25 17:35
schestowitzIn case we do start something......Dec 25 17:35
schestowitz[17:24] <schestowitz> HeeyDec 25 17:35
schestowitz[17:25] <mikeyc> heeyDec 25 17:35
schestowitz[17:25] <mikeyc> meeeeery christmas royston!Dec 25 17:35
schestowitz[17:25] <schestowitz> It's more like a vacation hereDec 25 17:35
schestowitz[17:26] <mikeyc> i still have your sardinesDec 25 17:35
schestowitz[17:26] <mikeyc> and socksDec 25 17:35
schestowitz[17:26] <schestowitz> eat up the fishDec 25 17:35
schestowitz[17:26] <mikeyc> i can have a chat with my friend leeDec 25 17:35
schestowitz[17:26] <schestowitz> It was not meant for storageDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:26] <schestowitz> thanks!Dec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:27] <schestowitz> lee can be helpful hereDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:27] <schestowitz> I can get funding for our startup tooDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:27] <mikeyc> lee is very politically awareDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:27] <schestowitz> So money is not a problemDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:27] <schestowitz> I am tooDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:27] <mikeyc> he is from northern irelandDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:27] <mikeyc> none at allDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:28] <mikeyc> no worriesDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:28] <schestowitz> I think I'll buy a laptopDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:28] <schestowitz> I'll know for sure tomorrow, I thinkDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:28] <schestowitz> Cause I still check some other routesDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:28] <mikeyc> why laptop?Dec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:28] <schestowitz> job would need travelingDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:29] <mikeyc> okDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:29] <schestowitz> I grouped friends with same background as meDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:29] <mikeyc> are you familiar with assangeDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:29] <schestowitz> Different countries... all the English-speaking onesDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:29] <mikeyc> julianDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:29] <schestowitz> YesDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:29] <schestowitz> I'm a longtime supporterDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:29] <mikeyc> goodDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:29] <schestowitz> And I did something similar to themDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:30] <schestowitz> Today I posted http://techrights.org/2010/12/25/memories-of-alex-brown/Dec 25 17:36
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Alex Brown: The ‘Joe Lieberman’ of Microsoft | Techrights .::. Size~: 92.59 KBDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:30] <schestowitz> Within hours someone from South American mailed me a translation http://techrights.org/2010/12/25/lieberman-de-microsoft/Dec 25 17:36
TechrightsBot-scTitle: ES: Alex Brown: El ‘Joe Lieberman’ de Microsoft | Techrights .::. Size~: 94.33 KBDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:30] <schestowitz> I didn't even need to ask, these  get sent to meDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:32] <mikeyc> i gotta shoot roy, they are waiting for me downstairsDec 25 17:36
schestowitz[17:32] <schestowitz> Cool!Dec 25 17:36
Quadrescenceschestowitz: neatDec 25 19:02
schestowitzI think it's up to 4 of us nowDec 25 19:07
schestowitzBut oiaohm is not a programmerDec 25 19:07
schestowitzHe's more of an admin typeDec 25 19:07
QuadrescenceI don't think that's bad.,Dec 25 19:10
schestowitzIt's not badDec 25 19:16
schestowitzMinceR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qnS0DXnoxoDec 25 21:00
TechrightsBot-scTitle:      YouTube         - Happy Holidays Anyways    .::. Size~: 139.21 KBDec 25 21:00
schestowitzI didn't know Toby comments in Groklaw.. http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20101215000542768&title=Allegations+regarding+OpenBSD&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=891060#c891092Dec 25 22:39
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Groklaw - Digging for Truth .::. Size~: 14.44 KBDec 25 22:39
*oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-socialDec 25 22:54

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