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IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: January 15th, 2011

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*oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-socialJan 15 07:39
schestowitzNow the mobbyist is feeding off my argument with Jan. Blech...Jan 15 10:18
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/26215042500268032 https://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/26215277075103744 https://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/26215899333660672 https://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/26217598853054464 https://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/status/26218731763933187Jan 15 10:18
TechrightsBot-sc@FOSSpatents: @schestowitz cc: @jwildeboer If lobbying is done honestly, it *can* be a valuable contribution to any democratic decision-making process.Jan 15 10:18
TechrightsBot-sc@FOSSpatents: @schestowitz cc: @jwildeboer (cont) For example, an MEP usually has 1 adviser plus secy/interns. They need external help in complex debates.Jan 15 10:18
TechrightsBot-sc@FOSSpatents: @jwildeboer cc: @schestowitz All it takes for bad things to happen is for good people to do nothing. That also applies to lobbying.Jan 15 10:18
TechrightsBot-sc@FOSSpatents: @schestowitz cc: @jwildeboer No. I never complained if people called lobbying lobbying *when* I actually did it. At most it was incomplete.Jan 15 10:18
TechrightsBot-sc@FOSSpatents: @schestowitz cc: @jwildeboer I had no problem with this (even if too narrow): http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/mar/22/sport.comment4Jan 15 10:18
TechrightsBot-sc-> Title:  Digger: Soca Warriors want World Cup money | Football | The Guardian  .::. Size~: 95.69 KBJan 15 10:19
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schestowitzTopic that are assured to stir up discussion at table: overpopulation, politics, religionJan 15 12:26
schestowitzNot necessarily mutually exclusive :-)Jan 15 12:26
schestowitzMinceR: http://www.slate.com/?id=2281146Jan 15 12:55
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Two spaces after a period: Why you should never, ever do it. - By Farhad Manjoo - Slate Magazine          .::. Size~: 55.04 KBJan 15 12:55
schestowitz"Why you should never, ever use two spaces after a period."Jan 15 12:55
schestowitzNew articleJan 15 12:55
schestowitzAnd since you brought it up the other day...Jan 15 12:56
MinceRno, i reacted to this article yesterdayJan 15 12:56
MinceR:>Jan 15 12:56
schestowitzAh, OKJan 15 12:56
schestowitzI didn't realise thisJan 15 12:56
MinceRand it doesn't really answer the question it asksJan 15 12:56
schestowitzMy understanding is that it's typewriters legacyJan 15 12:57
schestowitzMinceR: it's SlateJan 15 12:57
schestowitzThe writers is a Microsoft boosters from this publication which Microsoft once ownedJan 15 12:57
schestowitzIIRC they passed it to Melinda's PostJan 15 12:57
schestowitzMelinda's Post (WashPo Co.) dumped Melinda thoughJan 15 12:58
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/glynmoody/status/26254856020819968Jan 15 13:24
TechrightsBot-sc@glynmoody: @schestowitz maybe they'll reconsider that in the light of events...Jan 15 13:24
schestowitzre: "re "Open Source for America ... name & shame: good idea" -> see their logo that looks like Palin's infamous "target" maps."Jan 15 13:24
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MinceRhttp://redd.it/f2ragJan 15 16:09
TechrightsBot-scNot a web page! Aborting  typeJan 15 16:09
schestowitzdentedJan 15 16:19
schestowitzI reckon I alienated all my theistic followers by now anyway :-)Jan 15 16:20
schestowitzThose who can't take it leave sooner or later ;-pJan 15 16:20
schestowitzhttps://identi.ca/notice/62269132Jan 15 16:34
TechrightsBot-sc@Dr. Roy Schestowitz (schestowitz)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jan-11 16:31:50 UTC - Identi.ca: Non-free Art In Open-source Video #Games http://is.gd/tz1Eh0 "This information is lost if source is not provided." #freesoftware !linuxJan 15 16:34
TechrightsBot-sc-> Title: Non-free Art In Open-source (FOSS) Video Games | Do Know Evil - A Blog by Tyler Mulligan .::. Size~: 75.81 KBJan 15 16:34
schestowitzhttps://identi.ca/notice/62269147Jan 15 16:51
TechrightsBot-sc@Wayne Borean (themadhatter)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jan-11 16:32:28 UTC - Identi.ca: RT @schestowitz: "I am a Creationist- I believe God was created by man." http://www.reddit.com/tb/f2rag #LOLJan 15 16:51
TechrightsBot-sc-> Title: Lopsided coin {pic} via reddit.com .::. Size~: 1.62 KBJan 15 16:51
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schestowitzhttps://identi.ca/notice/62270948Jan 15 17:10
TechrightsBot-sc@Stefano Zacchiroli (zack)'s status on Saturday, 15-Jan-11 17:07:33 UTC - Identi.ca: @schestowitz: there is no such thing as "!Debian Squeeze RC1", rather there's an RC1 of Squeeze's *installer* http://ur1.ca/2u0m3Jan 15 17:10
schestowitzHm....Jan 15 17:10
TechrightsBot-sc-> Title: Debian -- News -- Debian Installer 6.0 Release Candidate 1 published  .::. Size~: 6.03 KBJan 15 17:10
schestowitzHe should correct the author thenJan 15 17:11
*m4n1sh (~manish@ubuntu/member/m4n1sh) has joined #boycottnovell-socialJan 15 17:24
schestowitz[17:15] <ThistleWeb> o/Jan 15 17:36
schestowitz[17:15] <ThistleWeb> had a lookie at the site today?Jan 15 17:36
schestowitz[17:16] <ThistleWeb> it's had a slight change, see if you can spot the differenceJan 15 17:36
schestowitz[17:36] <schestowitz> ThistleWeb: wow! very neatJan 15 17:37
schestowitz[17:36] <schestowitz> Sorry, not been watching this channel for a dayJan 15 17:37
schestowitz[17:36] <ThistleWeb> no worriesJan 15 17:37
m4n1shschestowitz: what did you mean by directx pushing to silicon?Jan 15 17:37
m4n1shwhy is it possible?Jan 15 17:37
schestowitzJan 15 17:38
schestowitz[17:37] <ThistleWeb> yeah I found a much cooler and more flexable themeJan 15 17:38
m4n1shi mean howJan 15 17:38
schestowitzGPUs handle a different insturction setJan 15 17:38
schestowitzTo render verticesJan 15 17:38
schestowitzThey get their input in raw instruction form via the driverJan 15 17:38
m4n1shwasnt that talk about HW vendor providing drivers?Jan 15 17:38
m4n1shdirectx is written over graphics drivers AFAIKJan 15 17:38
schestowitzThe driver translates API stuff into streamlined instruction set, like instruction code in a wayJan 15 17:39
m4n1shyes, trueJan 15 17:39
schestowitzDirectX is intermediateJan 15 17:39
m4n1shso?Jan 15 17:39
m4n1shdirectx lies above driver in the stackJan 15 17:39
schestowitzI quoted someone who mailed me that/said it in IRCJan 15 17:39
m4n1shhardware --> driver -> directx and so onJan 15 17:40
m4n1shhow come it be in the silicon?Jan 15 17:40
schestowitzNot literallyJan 15 17:40
schestowitzBUT..Jan 15 17:40
schestowitzthe driver has some neat movement of driver stuff to h/wJan 15 17:40
m4n1shi cant find any difference between the sensationism between MS's announcement and techright's postJan 15 17:41
schestowitzThat's part of the reluctance to give away free driversJan 15 17:41
m4n1shboth carry the same amount of misinformationJan 15 17:41
schestowitzCheaper in hardware than in... well... hardware/CPU (driver)Jan 15 17:41
m4n1shthe truth is the most of the hardware is closed and so are driversJan 15 17:41
schestowitzYesJan 15 17:41
m4n1shand vendors write driversJan 15 17:41
m4n1shwhich we reverse engineerJan 15 17:41
m4n1shand useJan 15 17:41
m4n1shsince we dont know how the drivers talk to hardwareJan 15 17:42
m4n1shso what is something new in this announcement, it is just that hw vendor is providing the driverJan 15 17:42
m4n1shIntel and MS and any other hw vendor relies on buzzwordsJan 15 17:42
m4n1shand carefully crafted replies and posts to sensationlizeJan 15 17:42
m4n1shdont fall for itJan 15 17:42
schestowitzI don't know how Intel's pipeline worksJan 15 17:44
schestowitzBUT>>>Jan 15 17:44
schestowitzIncreasingly software side is put in siliconJan 15 17:44
m4n1shis @azuthian from identica online? I need to talk to him tooJan 15 17:44
schestowitzEven DRM is now playing a roleJan 15 17:44
schestowitzSince ViivJan 15 17:44
schestowitzI don't know if the two are inseparable anymore, since I read about this in Slashdot around 2008Jan 15 17:44
schestowitzm4n1sh: I don't know who that isJan 15 17:44
schestowitzI got complaints about him, I never spoke to him...Jan 15 17:45
m4n1shwell, DRM support is added in hardware to prevent all those misuse (sic)Jan 15 17:45
schestowitzI am not going to,either... judging by how it developed when I was asked to distance myself from others of that typeJan 15 17:46
m4n1shso dont post it as if it was your viewJan 15 17:46
schestowitz"misuse (sic)"Jan 15 17:46
schestowitz:-)Jan 15 17:46
m4n1shor confirm the factsJan 15 17:46
m4n1shthe good part is that I dont have to worry about DRM and patents as of nowJan 15 17:46
schestowitzIn relation to what?Jan 15 17:46
schestowitzYou do...Jan 15 17:47
schestowitzI think..Jan 15 17:47
schestowitzSoftware patents already harm FOSSJan 15 17:47
m4n1shwell, misuse(sic) of intellectual propertyJan 15 17:47
schestowitzLook at their war on AndroidJan 15 17:47
m4n1shete cteJan 15 17:47
m4n1shall those fancy terms like IP etcJan 15 17:47
schestowitzTrauL Allen, Microsoft, Myhrvold..Jan 15 17:47
m4n1shwell, the space which has money is filled with patentJan 15 17:47
schestowitzIt's all bubbleJan 15 17:47
schestowitzLike the economic bubbleJan 15 17:47
m4n1shyou cant write anything more than "Hello World" without stepping on someone else's patentsJan 15 17:47
schestowitzAnd in 2008 people drew the similarityJan 15 17:48
schestowitzCompanies whose 'vlaue' is not just people they employ but pieces of paper that embody monopoliesJan 15 17:48
m4n1shschestowitz: one more thingJan 15 17:48
m4n1shhttp://techrights.org/2011/01/14/no-interest-in-banshee/Jan 15 17:48
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Linux Mint Founder Does Not Follow Ubuntu’s Banshee Travesty | Techrights .::. Size~: 95.98 KBJan 15 17:48
schestowitzAnd that should scare you cause China and India don't honour these losuy papersJan 15 17:48
m4n1shDavid Nielsen was psushed out of Fedora?Jan 15 17:48
schestowitzChina gets its own patents to trash pressure from USPTOJan 15 17:48
m4n1shschestowitz: well, software patents are not valid in IndiaJan 15 17:49
schestowitzm4n1sh: "draw your own conclusion"Jan 15 17:49
schestowitzPushbackJan 15 17:49
schestowitzThey didn't want his stuffJan 15 17:49
m4n1shschestowitz: he was not thrown outJan 15 17:49
schestowitzSo he leftJan 15 17:49
m4n1shhe leftJan 15 17:49
schestowitzYeahJan 15 17:49
schestowitzHe cannot be thrown outJan 15 17:49
m4n1shafter being pissed off at fedora's unclear stand on monoJan 15 17:49
schestowitzHe's not an employeeJan 15 17:49
schestowitzYou can't fire a volunteerJan 15 17:49
schestowitzThere's a good episode about this in SeinfeldJan 15 17:49
m4n1sh"For those who did not pay attention, Neilson was marginalised/pushed out of Fedora after he had promoted Mono"Jan 15 17:49
m4n1shwhat is this? marginalized/pushed?Jan 15 17:50
schestowitzAbout.. how basically when you don't work for someone (Cramer or George), they can't show you the doorJan 15 17:50
schestowitzThey can give cluesJan 15 17:50
schestowitzmarginalisedJan 15 17:50
schestowitzput asideJan 15 17:50
m4n1shpushed?Jan 15 17:50
schestowitzI saw that beforeJan 15 17:50
m4n1shthis word?Jan 15 17:50
schestowitzPeople whom Fedora sees as a burdenJan 15 17:50
schestowitzThey give them hintsJan 15 17:50
schestowitzThen they leaveJan 15 17:51
schestowitzpushes.. proddedJan 15 17:51
m4n1shwhy doesn't fedora stand for or against monoJan 15 17:51
m4n1shand make it clear?Jan 15 17:51
schestowitzAnyway, I can have this convo forverJan 15 17:51
schestowitzIs this going anywhere?Jan 15 17:51
m4n1shwell, yes, it canJan 15 17:51
m4n1shjust stick to factsJan 15 17:51
m4n1shand it will endJan 15 17:51
schestowitzI doJan 15 17:51
m4n1shfedora should make it's stand clearJan 15 17:51
m4n1shlike Ubuntu didJan 15 17:51
schestowitzI've explained to you the silicon thingJan 15 17:52
schestowitzhexx is a trollJan 15 17:52
schestowitzHe's showing up to defend monoJan 15 17:52
schestowitzIn IRC and commentsJan 15 17:52
m4n1shbut he did raise imp pointsJan 15 17:52
m4n1shthat is not trollingJan 15 17:52
schestowitzHe's there acting rather hostileJan 15 17:52
m4n1shstating facts is not trollingJan 15 17:52
m4n1shhostility and name-calling is seperate thingsJan 15 17:52
m4n1shdefending mono is not trollingJan 15 17:52
schestowitzIf he comes to a place where he's an antagonist as principle, then he looks to heckleJan 15 17:52
schestowitzWhich he didJan 15 17:52
schestowitzBy insulting people in that last postJan 15 17:53
schestowitzm4n1sh: I gave you a compliment earlierJan 15 17:53
schestowitzCan't recall in which channelJan 15 17:53
m4n1shfor?Jan 15 17:53
schestowitz[17:09] <schestowitz> Although Manish is exceedingly politeJan 15 17:53
schestowitzI saw you being subjected to that abuse from user ****Jan 15 17:54
m4n1shI ignore abusesJan 15 17:54
schestowitzcause he mentioned my username, it shows up in "replies"Jan 15 17:54
schestowitzFeel free to ignore that personJan 15 17:54
m4n1shschestowitz: that is fineJan 15 17:54
schestowitzhe thinks he helps, but he's just damaging the platform's objective sometimesJan 15 17:54
m4n1shhe is damaging everyone's imageJan 15 17:55
m4n1shpro and for monoJan 15 17:55
schestowitzIf you want to debate techrights, speak to me of someone who's admin herJan 15 17:55
schestowitz*hereJan 15 17:55
m4n1shsureJan 15 17:55
m4n1shhe stopped replying anywayJan 15 17:55
m4n1shnow I see that you are actually agreeing to listen to things, one more thing to clarify is that " former Microsoft employee that Canonical had hired decided to remove the GIMP"Jan 15 17:56
schestowitzReminds me of that person who insulted NeilsenJan 15 17:56
schestowitzMatt somethingJan 15 17:56
m4n1shschestowitz: just because he works in MS doesn't mean he is a a devilJan 15 17:56
schestowitzI knowJan 15 17:56
schestowitzI spoke about this with JONO MANY timesJan 15 17:56
schestowitzoops. Caps a keyboard issueJan 15 17:57
m4n1sheven though Neilsen supports mono, does not mean he has a hidden agendaJan 15 17:57
m4n1shhe pushes forwards what he likesJan 15 17:57
schestowitzI knowJan 15 17:57
schestowitzIt wasn't my pointJan 15 17:57
m4n1shschestowitz: and about that MS employee, people work in MS to earn their break and butterJan 15 17:58
m4n1shs/break/breadJan 15 17:58
m4n1shand many of those MS employees have no interest in spewing venom against FOSSJan 15 17:58
schestowitzThat's another pointJan 15 17:59
schestowitzAnd a huge discussion to haveJan 15 18:00
m4n1shschestowitz: blame Ubuntu if a top MS executive who steers Ms policy is sitting on Ubuntu boardJan 15 18:00
schestowitzCause you don't address it from the correct angle IMHOJan 15 18:00
m4n1shschestowitz: then tell with which point i need to look at itJan 15 18:00
schestowitzMicrosoft is not a personJan 15 18:00
schestowitzAnd people are not MicrosoftJan 15 18:00
schestowitzAnd it leads to a long discussionJan 15 18:00
schestowitzAbout peers and ex-colleaguesJan 15 18:00
m4n1shby the rule of thumb , we cannot generalize that former MS employees are here to taint FOSS worldJan 15 18:01
m4n1shthat's bad to them, they might even feel badJan 15 18:01
MinceRdespite that they keep providing evidence that that is what they're here to do?Jan 15 18:01
MinceRthey deserve to feel bad, they furthered the goals of m$ and probably still doJan 15 18:02
m4n1shMinceR: sadly the world is not filled with software developers who live by FOSS ideologiesJan 15 18:02
MinceRso?Jan 15 18:02
m4n1shthey need to workJan 15 18:02
MinceRso?Jan 15 18:02
m4n1shearn their moneyJan 15 18:02
MinceRdoes work mean acting like m$?Jan 15 18:02
m4n1shraise their familyJan 15 18:02
m4n1shwho acts like MS?Jan 15 18:02
m4n1shi am talking about those normal employeesJan 15 18:03
MinceRare anticompetitive practices the only way to earn money, is that what you're trying to say?Jan 15 18:03
MinceRor forcing people to buy the crap code those employees hacked up?Jan 15 18:03
m4n1shMinceR: those people dont create policiesJan 15 18:03
m4n1shnormal employees dont care about those, only thing they know if that they can bring up their children properlyJan 15 18:03
MinceRthey happily follow those policies thoughJan 15 18:03
m4n1shhave a good lifeJan 15 18:03
MinceRthey make my everyday work by supporting m$Jan 15 18:04
m4n1shMinceR: have you worked in MS to be sure that they follow these principles?Jan 15 18:04
MinceRthey make my everyday work harder by supporting m$Jan 15 18:04
m4n1shthey dont supoprt MSJan 15 18:04
m4n1shit is striclty a contractJan 15 18:04
m4n1shyou work for me, I pay youJan 15 18:04
m4n1shDONEJan 15 18:04
MinceRm4n1sh: i have too much respect for my field of work for m$Jan 15 18:04
m4n1shyes, I have many friends working in MS right nowJan 15 18:04
m4n1shshe cant leaveJan 15 18:04
MinceRso, since ballmer profits from m$'s crimes he's not guilty of them?Jan 15 18:05
MinceRinteresting dieaJan 15 18:05
m4n1shher parents want her to work there, so does people have expectationsJan 15 18:05
m4n1shshe uses Ubuntu at homeJan 15 18:05
MinceRhow can't she leave?Jan 15 18:05
MinceRis her contract impossible to terminate?Jan 15 18:05
m4n1shMinceR: everything is not no easy as it soundsJan 15 18:05
MinceRand just who cares what the parents want?Jan 15 18:05
MinceRdoes she not have free will?Jan 15 18:05
m4n1shMinceR: it doesJan 15 18:05
m4n1shjust because it doesnt matter to me or someone else doesnt mean it doesnt matter to themJan 15 18:05
m4n1shpeople do want their parents happyJan 15 18:05
m4n1shI can say NO, I wont workJan 15 18:06
m4n1shbut not everyoneJan 15 18:06
MinceRyeah, you know, working in IT is not so easy when drones like the people you're defending further an agenda of foisting crap products on everyone who works in ITJan 15 18:06
MinceRit was not my choice to have to use winblows, outlook, visual studio and useless crap like that at workJan 15 18:06
m4n1shMinceR: be polite to people and stick at the pointJan 15 18:06
m4n1shwe are talkign about why we should stop mud-slinging at normal MS employeessJan 15 18:06
MinceRsomehow you think that m$ employees are right to do whatever they please, no matter the damageJan 15 18:06
m4n1shMinceR: it is not your choice, if you want to use it . use it, if not dontJan 15 18:06
MinceRi don't want to use itJan 15 18:07
m4n1shMinceR: they are right to earn their bread and butterJan 15 18:07
schestowitz[18:03] <m4n1sh> normal employees dont care about those, only thing they know if that they can bring up their children properly               <<< yuppie Nuremberg defenceJan 15 18:07
MinceRm4n1sh: are bank robbers right to earn their bread and butter?Jan 15 18:07
m4n1shNuremberg?Jan 15 18:07
MinceRm4n1sh: are muggers right to earn their bread and butter?Jan 15 18:07
m4n1shMinceR: that is illegal by lawJan 15 18:07
MinceRm4n1sh: many things m$ does are also illegal by lawJan 15 18:07
m4n1shwhat MS employees are doing is not illegalJan 15 18:07
m4n1shcatch the board execsJan 15 18:07
MinceRdepends on which onesJan 15 18:08
m4n1shif you want to punishJan 15 18:08
m4n1shschestowitz: Nuremberg means?Jan 15 18:08
MinceRso you're pushing the "just following orders" bullshit, right?Jan 15 18:08
schestowitzlook the phrase upJan 15 18:08
schestowitzIt's from "thank you for smoking" IIRCJan 15 18:08
schestowitzSome people made a living selling deathJan 15 18:08
m4n1shno clueJan 15 18:08
schestowitzThey killed my grandma and uncleJan 15 18:08
m4n1shschestowitz: they are not selling deathJan 15 18:08
schestowitzTobacco industryJan 15 18:08
schestowitzSELLING. Death.Jan 15 18:08
m4n1shnopeJan 15 18:08
schestowitzWith PR nonsense.Jan 15 18:09
m4n1shtobacco doesnt kill peopleJan 15 18:09
schestowitzYesJan 15 18:09
m4n1shpeople kill themselves with tobaccoJan 15 18:09
schestowitzThe snoke does.Jan 15 18:09
schestowitzLOLJan 15 18:09
schestowitzOK, I have other things to doJan 15 18:09
MinceRin m4n1sh's work, everything is allowed EXCEPT not being polite to m$ dronesJan 15 18:09
MinceRthat's the only crime in his world, apparentlyJan 15 18:09
m4n1shgun dont kill peopleJan 15 18:09
m4n1shpeople kill peopleJan 15 18:09
MinceRso?Jan 15 18:09
MinceRcorporations are driven by peopleJan 15 18:09
MinceRthose people are guilty of the crimes of the corporationJan 15 18:09
m4n1shMinceR: whatever be the case, you cant achieve anything by being rudeJan 15 18:09
MinceRm4n1sh: can i achieve anything by being nice?Jan 15 18:10
m4n1shschestowitz: I cant stab someone and put the blame on the knifeJan 15 18:10
m4n1shMinceR: yesJan 15 18:10
MinceRhas being nice ever convinced a m$ apologist of being wrong?Jan 15 18:10
MinceRi don't think it ever didJan 15 18:10
m4n1shGandhi got independence by non-violenceJan 15 18:10
MinceRthat was a very special caseJan 15 18:10
MinceRread up on itJan 15 18:10
m4n1shnot very special caseJan 15 18:10
m4n1shMinceR: read up on what?Jan 15 18:10
MinceRalso, thank you very much but i'm not going to let someone harm me just because you think that the greatest crime in the world is exposing m$ drones for the criminals they areJan 15 18:11
m4n1shMinceR: read on how Gandhi got independence?Jan 15 18:11
MinceRyesJan 15 18:11
m4n1shlolJan 15 18:11
m4n1shtelling that to me?Jan 15 18:11
MinceRyesJan 15 18:11
m4n1shlol againJan 15 18:11
m4n1shI am Indian, and he is the role model of thousands of IndinsJan 15 18:12
m4n1shIndiansJan 15 18:12
MinceRit would be more productive if you read about it instead of typing "lol" over and over againJan 15 18:12
m4n1shwe have been reading about him since I can ever recallJan 15 18:12
m4n1shMinceR: it would be more productive if you read about him instead of typing MS instead of M$Jan 15 18:12
MinceRabout the prerequisites for civil disobedience actually workingJan 15 18:12
MinceRand about its priceJan 15 18:12
m4n1shfor civil disobJan 15 18:12
m4n1shwe are doing itJan 15 18:12
m4n1shnot using WindowsJan 15 18:12
m4n1shright?Jan 15 18:12
MinceRm4n1sh: i'll type MS once they earn respectJan 15 18:12
MinceRthey aren't worthy of any respect currentlyJan 15 18:13
MinceRand neither are any people who further m$'s agenda worthy of any respect eitherJan 15 18:13
m4n1shso you will abuse them?Jan 15 18:13
MinceRi'm not going to be nice or grateful people who make my life worseJan 15 18:13
MinceRif i can, i willJan 15 18:13
m4n1shschestowitz: you needed now?Jan 15 18:13
MinceRi reserve the right to fight backJan 15 18:13
m4n1shfighting back is not abusingJan 15 18:13
m4n1shcivil disobidience is fighting back without abusingJan 15 18:14
MinceRit is also letting yourself be abusedJan 15 18:14
MinceRand that is not rightJan 15 18:14
m4n1shI have been abused many timesJan 15 18:14
MinceRi don't buy the "show the other cheek" bullshitJan 15 18:14
m4n1shfor not opposing mono with full vigourJan 15 18:14
MinceRthose who do, will get slapped on both cheeksJan 15 18:15
MinceRapparently you support mono insteadJan 15 18:15
m4n1shlolJan 15 18:15
MinceRi don't see why you expect people to celebrate you for doing thatJan 15 18:15
m4n1shi write code in Python the most timesJan 15 18:15
MinceRyet here you are apologizing for m$ and the drones who keep m$ goingJan 15 18:15
m4n1shapologizing?Jan 15 18:16
MinceRyesJan 15 18:16
m4n1shi think you are taking it out of contextJan 15 18:16
m4n1shI just meant "be polite to everyone"Jan 15 18:16
m4n1shyou wont see me shouting at anyoneJan 15 18:16
MinceRyou don't see me shouting eitherJan 15 18:17
m4n1shwell, I do feel you can be bit more politeJan 15 18:17
MinceRi do not feel the need nor the reasonJan 15 18:18
MinceRit is not in my interest to feel m$ drones feel nice for the crimes they're doing and aidingJan 15 18:18
MinceRs/feel/make/Jan 15 18:18
m4n1shseeJan 15 18:18
m4n1shas I saidJan 15 18:18
m4n1shbe politeJan 15 18:18
MinceRlet those who agree with their goals comfort them and tell them it's all rightJan 15 18:18
m4n1shdude, I have been working on python, vala etc codebaseJan 15 18:19
m4n1shI am also trying to  fight their monopolyJan 15 18:19
MinceRwell, congratulations, that gives you n defend-m$ creditsJan 15 18:19
MinceRoh waitJan 15 18:19
m4n1shbut not as an armchair revolutionistJan 15 18:20
MinceRit doesn't make any sense, does it?Jan 15 18:20
MinceRplease define this "armchair revolutionist" thingJan 15 18:20
m4n1shwriting how a thing is dangerousJan 15 18:21
m4n1shand how it should be removedJan 15 18:21
m4n1shrather than working on an alternativeJan 15 18:21
m4n1shin a raceJan 15 18:21
m4n1shyou try to climb up the stairsJan 15 18:21
m4n1shnot pull others downJan 15 18:21
MinceRso what do you do if others are trying to kick you down the stairs?Jan 15 18:21
m4n1shso what is the difference left?Jan 15 18:22
m4n1shif I do that I would lose my right to complainJan 15 18:22
MinceRand what do you think the competitors m$ destroyed using unfair and often illegal means did? weren't they working on an alternative? what good did it do them?Jan 15 18:22
m4n1shnow I can complain about me being pulled downJan 15 18:22
MinceRyou apparently don't complain at allJan 15 18:22
m4n1shwe were blessed with FirefoxJan 15 18:22
m4n1shfrom NetscapeJan 15 18:22
MinceRbecause you believe you have no right to complainJan 15 18:22
m4n1shlolJan 15 18:23
m4n1shi have right to complainJan 15 18:23
m4n1shbut not at that place where it doesnt make any senseJan 15 18:23
m4n1shI can tweet or dent randomlyJan 15 18:23
m4n1shand complainJan 15 18:23
MinceRso what doesn't make any sense here?Jan 15 18:23
m4n1shwhat difference it makesJan 15 18:23
m4n1shinstead of tweeting or denting against mono/MS/random-fooJan 15 18:23
m4n1shspend that time in improving the technology of your choiseJan 15 18:24
m4n1sh*choiceJan 15 18:24
MinceRwhy, what difference would it make if i kept saying nice things about the people who are the reason the IT industry has been set back decades?Jan 15 18:24
MinceRwould that magically make them stop their efforts?Jan 15 18:24
MinceRfunny, i'm not even on twitter or identicaJan 15 18:24
m4n1shwhat difference would it make if i continue cribbingJan 15 18:24
MinceRand yet you keep lecturing me about tweeting and dentingJan 15 18:24
m4n1shMinceR: just taking an exampleJan 15 18:24
m4n1shnot telling abt youJan 15 18:24
m4n1shanyone who does thatJan 15 18:24
m4n1shMinceR: secondly about the mono patent issues, I know which part of mono is dangerous and which notJan 15 18:25
MinceRor perhaps nobody should dent, tweet or blog anymore, just write code and be nice to m$ drones and hope that (in contrast with everything that has happened so far) they'll just let you compete nicely?Jan 15 18:25
m4n1shhow does denting/tweeting/blogging make a differenceJan 15 18:26
MinceRit helps open some people's eyesJan 15 18:26
m4n1shI am sure that redmond gets scared at my tweets/dents/blogs right?Jan 15 18:26
MinceRno, but the more people know what's going on the less freely m$ gets to commit its crimesJan 15 18:26
MinceRthere's more resistance to themJan 15 18:26
m4n1shthose who care about FOSS already know and those who dont care, will well never careJan 15 18:26
MinceRneither of those assertions are trueJan 15 18:27
m4n1shwhich assertion?Jan 15 18:27
MinceR"caring about FOSS" is not a binary switchJan 15 18:27
MinceRneither is "already knowing"Jan 15 18:27
MinceRalso, m$ drones keep trying to convince people that m$ is being nice and "open source" now. if nobody's exposing their lies people will believe themJan 15 18:28
MinceRand free software losesJan 15 18:28
MinceRbblJan 15 18:28
m4n1shwell, how will MS improve itself?Jan 15 18:29
MinceRreJan 15 18:50
MinceRi don't think they ever willJan 15 18:50
MinceRi just hope m$ dies as quickly as possible, causing as little damage as possible as it does soJan 15 18:50
MinceRif course they don't want to do thatJan 15 18:50
MinceRthey want to keep thrashing around for as long as they canJan 15 18:50
MinceRand how is being nice to them going to help the IT industry?Jan 15 18:51
MinceRbtw, you did show a good example of why it's important to get the word out: if ignorant m$ drones realize what their employer is doing, they might quitJan 15 18:52
m4n1shbck. lemme readJan 15 18:53
m4n1shthey wont quit\Jan 15 18:54
m4n1shwrong thinkingJan 15 18:54
MinceRwhy?Jan 15 18:54
m4n1shpeople will prefer compromising their ideology than being unemployedJan 15 18:54
m4n1shplease be practicalJan 15 18:55
MinceRso you say those people are evilJan 15 18:55
MinceRwell, there's a practical solution to that, but i don't think you'd like itJan 15 18:55
m4n1shpractical solution?Jan 15 18:55
m4n1shthose people are not evilJan 15 18:56
m4n1shthey dont careJan 15 18:56
m4n1shabout ideologyJan 15 18:56
MinceRso they commit crimes out of negligenceJan 15 18:56
MinceRwhat is that if not evil?Jan 15 18:56
m4n1shthey need to feed their familiesJan 15 18:56
MinceRwhy should we care about that?Jan 15 18:56
m4n1shwhy should they care about us?Jan 15 18:56
MinceRthey'll probably become just as attached to m$ as the drones feeding them areJan 15 18:57
MinceRwhy should anyone care about not doing as much damage to other people as possible? good question :>Jan 15 18:57
m4n1shsame way as you think its useless for us to care about their familiesJan 15 18:58
MinceRso being impolite is bad, but who cares about crime? is that what you're trying to say?Jan 15 19:01
MinceRthat's a thoroughly warped "morality"Jan 15 19:01
m4n1shdidnt get "so being impolite is bad, but who cares about crime?"Jan 15 19:02
MinceRwell, you criticize me for being impolite, but you keep claiming that it's perfectly acceptable that m$ drones support their criminal organizationJan 15 19:03
m4n1shthey dont supportJan 15 19:03
m4n1shmy friend works thereJan 15 19:03
MinceRyes they doJan 15 19:03
m4n1shyou worked there?Jan 15 19:03
MinceRdo you think m$ could continue to function without their slaves?Jan 15 19:03
m4n1shyou seem so confidentJan 15 19:03
m4n1shyesJan 15 19:03
m4n1shit canJan 15 19:04
MinceRhow?Jan 15 19:04
m4n1shMONEY dude MONEYJan 15 19:04
MinceRexplain.Jan 15 19:04
m4n1shits  a contractJan 15 19:04
MinceRso?Jan 15 19:04
m4n1shbetween employees and companyJan 15 19:04
MinceRcontract with whom?Jan 15 19:04
m4n1shthey give moneyJan 15 19:04
m4n1shemployees work for themJan 15 19:04
m4n1shthat's itJan 15 19:04
m4n1shno affectionJan 15 19:04
m4n1shno loyaltyJan 15 19:04
MinceRdo the employees get to decide?Jan 15 19:04
m4n1shget to decide what?Jan 15 19:04
MinceRwhether to work for m$Jan 15 19:05
MinceRdoes getting money out of the deal somehow make them innocent?Jan 15 19:05
m4n1shin some cases, yes and in some cases noJan 15 19:05
MinceRif someone robs you on the street but gets your money, is it suddenly all right?Jan 15 19:05
MinceRdoes m$ have indentured slaves in india or something?Jan 15 19:05
m4n1shMinceR: means?Jan 15 19:06
MinceRin what way do the employees not get to decide whether or not to work for m$?Jan 15 19:06
m4n1shto be preciseJan 15 19:06
m4n1shin any for-profit company you work, the situation is sameJan 15 19:06
m4n1shyou work for themJan 15 19:06
MinceRare they locked into the local m$ sweatshop or something?Jan 15 19:06
m4n1shnopeJan 15 19:06
MinceRare they chained to their desks?Jan 15 19:06
m4n1shnopeJan 15 19:06
m4n1shit is their decisionJan 15 19:06
MinceRso why can't they leave?Jan 15 19:07
MinceRwhy can't they get a job at another company instead?Jan 15 19:07
m4n1shhow can I tell them to leaveJan 15 19:07
m4n1shto satisfy my ego?Jan 15 19:07
MinceRno, to reduce the damage m$ gets to do in the futureJan 15 19:07
MinceRat the very least, reduce the supply of workforce to them, increasing their costsJan 15 19:08
MinceRsadly, the damage they've already done can not be undoneJan 15 19:08
m4n1shso we are left with one thingJan 15 19:08
m4n1shhow can MS improve nowJan 15 19:08
MinceRthough taking ballmer's and gate$' and the other ringleaders' money away could help somewhat in fixing what they've doneJan 15 19:08
MinceRlike i said, the only likely way for m$ to improve is that if they hurried up and stopped operatingJan 15 19:09
MinceRif you've read the Halloween Documents and the Comes vs m$ documents, you'd know that evil is deeply ingrained in their corporate cultureJan 15 19:09
m4n1shyesJan 15 19:09
m4n1shyou cannot killJan 15 19:09
m4n1shbe practicalJan 15 19:09
MinceR?Jan 15 19:10
m4n1shyou can only make them improveJan 15 19:10
MinceRsure, killing them would improve themJan 15 19:10
MinceRsince they have a negative worth now, and they'd have a zero value thenJan 15 19:10
m4n1shwell, be practical. Killing is not feasibleJan 15 19:10
m4n1shthink of a feasible solutionJan 15 19:10
MinceRlocking them all up would also be feasibleJan 15 19:12
m4n1shlolJan 15 19:13
MinceRand spending all their money on compensationJan 15 19:13
*m4n1sh faints at the practical solutions offeredJan 15 19:13
MinceRhaving them work in prison to do as much as they can to compensate the damage they've done so farJan 15 19:13
MinceRbut don't worry, as long as m$ has a lot of control over most governments it won't happenJan 15 19:14
MinceRthey've even managed to steal a lot of hungarian taxpayers' moneyJan 15 19:14
MinceRand that didn't get much press coverage, most of the coverage it got was the dude who threw eggs at ballmer for itJan 15 19:14
m4n1shand most people must have shown sympathies with ballmerJan 15 19:15
m4n1shno one understood that he was doing because MS undertakes bad practiceJan 15 19:15
MinceRmost people are idiotsJan 15 19:15
m4n1shyeahJan 15 19:15
m4n1shso are MS employeesJan 15 19:15
m4n1shignorantsJan 15 19:16
MinceRmilitant ignorance is no excuse thoughJan 15 19:16
m4n1shit isnt militaryJan 15 19:16
MinceRi didn't say "military", i said "militant"Jan 15 19:17
MinceRit isn't just plain no access to informationJan 15 19:17
MinceRthey actively keep themselves in the dark if they're still ignorant about what their employer doesJan 15 19:17
m4n1shjust like most people(general public) dont know what MS doesJan 15 19:17
m4n1shwhole world is in darkJan 15 19:18
MinceRsee, that's why the word must spreadJan 15 19:18
MinceRit's pretty easy to find out for someone who actually seeks the information, but most people don't do thatJan 15 19:18
m4n1shyeahJan 15 19:18
m4n1shwithout shouting at MS employeesJan 15 19:18
m4n1shor abusing themJan 15 19:18
m4n1shI agree about informing peopleJan 15 19:18
m4n1shand making them awareJan 15 19:18
m4n1shbut you dont make them aware by screaming at themJan 15 19:18
m4n1shor by mud-slingingJan 15 19:19
MinceRthey also do not deserve politenessJan 15 19:19
MinceRor political correctness (which is just a load of bullshit anyway)Jan 15 19:19
m4n1shwhy because they are ignorants?Jan 15 19:19
m4n1shignorants needs to be educatedJan 15 19:19
m4n1shnot screamed atJan 15 19:19
MinceRignorants don't need to be told that it's all right what they're doingJan 15 19:20
MinceRand the name of a criminal organization does not need to be uttered with respectJan 15 19:21
MinceRthe ignorants should understand that what they're doing in this case is not respectableJan 15 19:21
m4n1shthey need to understandJan 15 19:21
m4n1shthey need to be educatedJan 15 19:21
MinceRperhaps they'll feel more of a need to find out if they see that IT professionals tend to utter their name with hatred and disgustJan 15 19:22
m4n1shsadly most IT professional dont tend to utter their name with hatered and disgustJan 15 19:22
m4n1shnot everyone believes in name-callingJan 15 19:23
MinceRand so the drones keep on living in their bubble, believing that they aren't doing harmJan 15 19:23
m4n1shyesJan 15 19:23
m4n1shsince no one told them the realityJan 15 19:24
m4n1shwith politnessJan 15 19:24
m4n1shif you insult anyone, you should not expect them to change so fastJan 15 19:24
m4n1shit actually make them more defensiveJan 15 19:24
MinceRi don't expect them to change at allJan 15 19:24
MinceRi have no illusions, i know that most of the human species is garbageJan 15 19:24
m4n1shyou have up hopeJan 15 19:24
m4n1shs/have/gaveJan 15 19:24
MinceRi'm tread on every day and i'm sick of itJan 15 19:25
MinceRi'm not going to help these people feel good about itJan 15 19:25
m4n1shI have managed to changeJan 15 19:25
m4n1shI have not lost hopeJan 15 19:25
m4n1shso when you dont try changing peopleJan 15 19:25
m4n1shwill screaming or name-calling help?Jan 15 19:25
MinceRdo you think i spend time with screaming and name-calling?Jan 15 19:26
m4n1shwell, calling them dronesJan 15 19:27
m4n1shor whateverJan 15 19:27
m4n1shyou said they dont deserver respectJan 15 19:27
m4n1shhave you told them why they dont deserve respectJan 15 19:27
m4n1shdid you tell them what they should do to earn respect?Jan 15 19:27
MinceRthey can ask me if they lack the resourcefulness to find out otherwiseJan 15 19:27
m4n1shlike you everyone thinks they are perfetJan 15 19:28
m4n1shand know wellJan 15 19:28
MinceRbtw, the m$ employees that do show up on irc tend to be rather aggressive supporters of the criminal organization that mostly just exploits themJan 15 19:29
m4n1shMinceR: name those people?Jan 15 19:30
m4n1shwho all?Jan 15 19:30
MinceRi remember a guy called "Adus" or somethingJan 15 19:30
MinceRbut #techrights does get the incursion of m$ apologists from time to timeJan 15 19:31
MinceRthey come here to trollJan 15 19:31
m4n1shlol, they think same about you as a trollJan 15 19:31
m4n1shnatural for humansJan 15 19:31
MinceRmost m$ employees of course isn't quite so forthcoming about their status as a m$ employeeJan 15 19:31
MinceRdo i join their irc channel, spouting lies about them?Jan 15 19:31
MinceRnoJan 15 19:31
MinceRso which of us is the troll again?Jan 15 19:31
m4n1shthey hide their status of MS emlpoyees because they fear of getting abused when they come to this channelJan 15 19:32
m4n1shmake sense for themJan 15 19:32
m4n1shMinceR: so the whole thing is "us" and "them"Jan 15 19:32
m4n1shbravoJan 15 19:32
m4n1shthey can surely come hereJan 15 19:32
MinceRso how do you think they should get special treatment as m$ employees if we don't immediately know that's what they are?Jan 15 19:32
m4n1shand defend their actionsJan 15 19:32
m4n1shif they canJan 15 19:32
m4n1shit is fineJan 15 19:32
m4n1shgo with facts/proof/figuresJan 15 19:32
m4n1shand not defendingJan 15 19:32
MinceRsure. it's "us", who care about the IT industry and create stuff that worksJan 15 19:32
m4n1shif they have a point, they win and you loseJan 15 19:33
m4n1shif they cant defend, then they lose and you winJan 15 19:33
MinceRand "them" who try to exploit the industry to take over the world and crush anyone who tries to oppose themJan 15 19:33
MinceRor just compete with themJan 15 19:33
m4n1shwhen did defending oneself become wrong?Jan 15 19:34
m4n1shor defending the thing you like become wrongJan 15 19:34
MinceRwell, is it wrong if i do it?Jan 15 19:34
m4n1shnotJan 15 19:34
m4n1shbut how can you call they trollsJan 15 19:35
m4n1shjust because they came to your channelJan 15 19:35
MinceRbecause they behave like trollsJan 15 19:35
m4n1shhow?Jan 15 19:35
m4n1shthey defend themselves?Jan 15 19:35
m4n1shthis is trolling?Jan 15 19:35
MinceRno, not just because they came to these channelsJan 15 19:35
MinceRthere's more to trolling than that, of courseJan 15 19:35
m4n1shlike?Jan 15 19:35
m4n1shagain... furnish proofs and factsJan 15 19:35
m4n1shclaims - proof/facts = mythsJan 15 19:36
MinceRif you want proof and facts, search the logs onlineJan 15 19:36
m4n1shMinceR: you know better where it isJan 15 19:36
MinceRfor a long time, the TR channels have been logged and it's onlineJan 15 19:36
m4n1shyou can point me outJan 15 19:36
MinceRwe usually get random people showing up, spouting pro-mono/pro-m$ talking pointsJan 15 19:36
MinceRandd when we point them out, we get abusesJan 15 19:36
m4n1shMinceR: to prove your point you need to furnish proofsJan 15 19:36
m4n1shnot meJan 15 19:36
MinceRwe also get trolls who abuse bugs in the title reporting botJan 15 19:37
MinceR(to flood the channel)Jan 15 19:37
m4n1shhow you know they are MS employees?Jan 15 19:37
m4n1shwhen the dont discloseJan 15 19:38
m4n1shor you label them so?Jan 15 19:38
MinceRusually the most we can do is suspectJan 15 19:38
MinceRlike i said, there is one case when the user himself confirmed itJan 15 19:38
m4n1shhe was bold to do soJan 15 19:38
m4n1shhe knew he would be bad-mouthedJan 15 19:38
MinceRyou propose that we be nice and polite to m$ employees, but how do you propose we do it if they don't reveal it?Jan 15 19:38
m4n1shsuspect is not a proofJan 15 19:38
m4n1shfrom any angleJan 15 19:38
m4n1shMinceR: if someone is acting badly, set a ban on themJan 15 19:39
MinceRi can'tJan 15 19:39
m4n1shban their IPJan 15 19:39
m4n1shtell schestowitzJan 15 19:39
MinceRwe often doJan 15 19:39
MinceR:>Jan 15 19:39
m4n1shgoodJan 15 19:39
m4n1shban and ignoreJan 15 19:39
MinceRignore doesn't helpJan 15 19:39
m4n1shand plus there is no proof that they are from MSJan 15 19:39
m4n1shi can also claim I am from RedHatJan 15 19:39
m4n1shor CanonicalJan 15 19:39
m4n1shor fooJan 15 19:39
MinceRso?Jan 15 19:39
m4n1shyou called them "MS employees"Jan 15 19:39
MinceRso?Jan 15 19:40
m4n1shwho come and trollJan 15 19:40
m4n1shhow can you call them "MS employees" when you dont even knowJan 15 19:40
m4n1sheven if they say , they must be saying just like thatJan 15 19:40
m4n1sheven I can say thatJan 15 19:40
MinceRwell, there's at least one and i suspect there are moreJan 15 19:41
MinceRm$ is well known to employ astroturfing companiesJan 15 19:41
m4n1shsuspect != proofJan 15 19:41
MinceRstill, plural is a better fit in this caseJan 15 19:41
m4n1shMinceR: suspect != proofJan 15 19:42
MinceRso, once again, what do you want us to do?Jan 15 19:42
m4n1shdont claim anything which you cant proveJan 15 19:42
m4n1shlike everyone elseJan 15 19:42
MinceRmost people don't hold themselves to that ruleJan 15 19:42
MinceRespecially not m$ apologistsJan 15 19:43
m4n1shwhich ones?Jan 15 19:43
MinceRin fact, probably nobody ever does, including youJan 15 19:43
MinceRbtw, are you religious? :>Jan 15 19:43
m4n1shno wayJan 15 19:43
m4n1shi dont claim anything which i cant provwJan 15 19:43
MinceRprove that.Jan 15 19:44
MinceR:>Jan 15 19:44
m4n1shif i heard, I do add that it is overheardJan 15 19:44
m4n1shi dont need to proveJan 15 19:44
m4n1shyou asked for meJan 15 19:44
MinceRthat sounds like a contradiction to meJan 15 19:44
m4n1shyou asked for my religionJan 15 19:44
MinceRoh, answers to questions aren't claims now?Jan 15 19:44
m4n1shi did not claimJan 15 19:44
MinceRinterestingJan 15 19:44
m4n1shif I claimed, then it rests on me to provide proofJan 15 19:44
m4n1shif you asked, i told the answerJan 15 19:44
MinceRthough my "prove that" referred to    204206 < m4n1sh> i dont claim anything which i cant provwJan 15 19:44
m4n1shthen it is not on me to provide proofJan 15 19:44
m4n1shi never claimedJan 15 19:45
m4n1shyou askedJan 15 19:45
m4n1shi answeredJan 15 19:45
MinceRthat's not what "claim" meansJan 15 19:45
m4n1shdid I say  "do you know I am agnostic" ?Jan 15 19:45
m4n1shthis is claimJan 15 19:45
MinceRthat's a questionJan 15 19:45
m4n1shthat is a claimJan 15 19:45
m4n1shyou can askJan 15 19:45
m4n1shreally?Jan 15 19:45
m4n1shthen i have to furnish proofJan 15 19:45
m4n1shi am obliged to furnish proofJan 15 19:46
m4n1shsince I am telling something which i want others to beliveJan 15 19:46
MinceRbut you aren't, if you're answering a question?Jan 15 19:46
m4n1shif you ask, then i am not obliged to answer, but still i answered as you askedJan 15 19:46
MinceRwait, if you answer this question, that will only be an answer, which you claim to not be a claim...Jan 15 19:46
m4n1shwell, it is on youJan 15 19:46
m4n1shto believe or notJan 15 19:47
m4n1shas you wanted to knowJan 15 19:47
m4n1shin that case I am not obliged to provide a proofJan 15 19:47
MinceRand i'm not obliged to believe youJan 15 19:47
m4n1shdont believeJan 15 19:47
MinceRthat trick won't work on me :>Jan 15 19:47
m4n1shi was never interested in telign the world about my religious beliefJan 15 19:47
m4n1shyou asked for meJan 15 19:47
m4n1shso I showed goodwill and toldJan 15 19:48
m4n1shif I say - I am agnosticJan 15 19:48
m4n1shyou can say -- how can we believe you?Jan 15 19:48
m4n1shthen i have to provide proofsJan 15 19:48
m4n1shit isnt a trickJan 15 19:48
m4n1shit is more of the responsibility lying on which sideJan 15 19:48
MinceRso if someone asks you something, you aren't interested in telling the truth, only if you say something on your ownJan 15 19:49
m4n1shwell, I would tell the truthJan 15 19:49
m4n1shbut it is not on me to provide proofJan 15 19:49
m4n1shas I am not obligedJan 15 19:49
m4n1shif I am not interested in telling, i would clearly say - Not interested in answeringJan 15 19:50
gnufreex[19:54:44] <m4n1sh> even though Neilsen supports mono, does not mean he has a hidden agendaJan 15 22:14
gnufreexNielsen's agenda is not hiden. See propaganda he is spreading on Ubuntu forums.Jan 15 22:14
gnufreexIt is pretty obvious agenda.Jan 15 22:15
sebsebsebm4n1sh: gnufreex  Have you seen his leaving Fedora blog post from before?Jan 15 22:20
sebsebseband well comments to people replying to that, as well for that matterJan 15 22:20
m4n1shsebsebseb: I know him for longJan 15 22:21
m4n1shand also that blog postJan 15 22:22
sebsebsebm4n1sh: oh your one of the Ubuntu membersJan 15 22:22
m4n1shm4n1sh - ubuntu/member/m4n1shJan 15 22:22
m4n1shyes, I amJan 15 22:22
sebsebsebwhy are you here? :D maybe the back log will say why thoughJan 15 22:22
m4n1shsebsebseb: came here to talk to Roy about some factual errors on techrightsJan 15 22:23
m4n1shwe had a good, sensible and calmed discussionJan 15 22:23
sebsebsebm4n1sh: was that in #techrightsJan 15 22:23
sebsebseb?Jan 15 22:23
m4n1shyesJan 15 22:23
sebsebsebwhen was that earlier?Jan 15 22:24
m4n1shabout directX in siliconJan 15 22:24
gnufreex[00:17:34] <sebsebseb> m4n1sh: gnufreex  Have you seen his leaving Fedora blog post from before?Jan 15 22:24
gnufreexYes I read it. He tried to paint himself as victim, he failed. Read comment of that guy who he defamed.Jan 15 22:24
m4n1shcall it factual error or sensationalization.. it did not reflect the true pictureJan 15 22:24
sebsebsebgnufreex: uhmm I think your time stamps are wrongJan 15 22:24
sebsebsebgnufreex: unless your in Finland or something like that at the moment I guessJan 15 22:24
m4n1shgnufreex: it shows your local onesJan 15 22:24
m4n1shit doesnt show UTCJan 15 22:25
m4n1shgnufreex: he was a victimJan 15 22:25
m4n1shof vague mono position of fedoraJan 15 22:25
gnufreexYeah.Jan 15 22:25
sebsebsebm4n1sh: this is the social channelJan 15 22:26
sebsebsebm4n1sh: #techrights is the other one, but yes there is a chat in here you hadJan 15 22:26
gnufreexTher is no vague mono positionJan 15 22:26
gnufreexNo MonoJan 15 22:26
gnufreexPretty clearJan 15 22:26
sebsebsebvague mono position meaning?Jan 15 22:26
m4n1shmeans their stand on monoJan 15 22:27
gnufreexRed Hat execs said on Red Hat summit year after year that mono is "IP trap"Jan 15 22:27
m4n1shallowed or notJan 15 22:27
m4n1shthen why is it present in fedora reposJan 15 22:27
m4n1sh?Jan 15 22:27
m4n1shit is still vagueJan 15 22:27
gnufreexIt can be striped easily from repo.Jan 15 22:27
m4n1shthey are against itJan 15 22:27
gnufreexIt can't from shipped CDJan 15 22:27
m4n1sh"can be" is not same as" is tripped"Jan 15 22:27
m4n1shthat doesnt matterJan 15 22:27
m4n1shavailablity mattersJan 15 22:27
gnufreexIt matters.Jan 15 22:28
m4n1shif you are against mono, keep yourself distancedJan 15 22:28
MinceRthere's a big difference between building a system that's dependent on mono and shipping mono by default and including mono in a repositoryJan 15 22:28
gnufreexYou want Mono to be removed completely?Jan 15 22:28
MinceRof course, it should be a nonfree repository then if there's such a thingJan 15 22:28
m4n1shgnufreex: from the repos if they are against monoJan 15 22:28
m4n1shthat's what I am saying vague standJan 15 22:28
m4n1shthey are against itJan 15 22:28
m4n1shbut allow it in reposJan 15 22:28
gnufreexIt is not vague, things that are in Fedora usually end up in RHELJan 15 22:29
m4n1shRHEL wont ship with mono at allJan 15 22:29
gnufreexSo they need to support it.Jan 15 22:29
m4n1shso they dont need it in fedoraJan 15 22:29
gnufreexThat is what I am sayingJan 15 22:29
m4n1shsince it wont end up in RHEL, so why support it in fedoraJan 15 22:29
m4n1shwhen they are against monoJan 15 22:29
gnufreexSo for Mono movemen it is either "all mono" or "you are hater" ?Jan 15 22:30
gnufreexAnd then they blame people for being black and white.Jan 15 22:30
gnufreexpot kettle blackJan 15 22:30
m4n1shwell, isnt that what techrights is allow aboutJan 15 22:30
m4n1shblack and white?Jan 15 22:30
gnufreexI don't think so.Jan 15 22:31
m4n1shfrom all the blog posts on techrightJan 15 22:31
m4n1shthat is the obvious conclusionJan 15 22:31
m4n1shand 2ndly who was the person who mailed davidJan 15 22:31
m4n1shMatthew Woehlke:Jan 15 22:32
m4n1shhis reply was so harshJan 15 22:32
gnufreexIt was not harsh.Jan 15 22:32
m4n1shit wasJan 15 22:32
MinceRthat's a fun gameJan 15 22:32
MinceRit was notJan 15 22:33
gnufreexNielsen promoted things that he knew there is going to be a pushbackJan 15 22:33
m4n1shit wasJan 15 22:33
gnufreexThen when he meet pushbackJan 15 22:33
MinceRit was notJan 15 22:33
gnufreexHe blamed people for hateJan 15 22:33
MinceR(what are we talking about?)Jan 15 22:33
m4n1shtechrights people call everyone who disagrees  with them as trollsJan 15 22:33
m4n1shisnt that harsh tooJan 15 22:33
MinceRno, techrights people call trolls trollsJan 15 22:33
gnufreexRead Nielsen's mails.Jan 15 22:33
MinceRthere's nothing harsh about thatJan 15 22:33
gnufreexI find it harsh too.Jan 15 22:33
m4n1shI’m going to guess a lot of that “disrespectful personal mail” revolves around the use of mono? And why shouldn’t it?Jan 15 22:33
m4n1shso why disrespectful personal mails?Jan 15 22:34
gnufreexIt is as if he is Microsfot sales person.Jan 15 22:34
gnufreexThat is how he behaves.Jan 15 22:34
m4n1sh“disrespectful personal mail” revolves around the use of mono? And why shouldn’t it?Jan 15 22:34
m4n1shis it so hard to readJan 15 22:34
gnufreexOf course there will be pushback on that.Jan 15 22:34
m4n1shhe approves “disrespectful personal mail”Jan 15 22:34
m4n1shhe says.. its good that you  were being treated badlyJan 15 22:35
m4n1shisnt that harshJan 15 22:35
m4n1shhow can you support someone who is involved in abusing someoneJan 15 22:35
m4n1sh?Jan 15 22:35
gnufreexHe promoted things that only can get you hars response.Jan 15 22:35
gnufreexThat is exactly what he counted.Jan 15 22:35
gnufreexI tihnkJan 15 22:35
MinceRonce again, m4n1sh explains that verbal abuse is the greatest crime one can commitJan 15 22:36
m4n1shgnufreex: that is not an excuseJan 15 22:36
*qu1j0t3 (~qu1j0t3@98.124.60.149) has joined #boycottnovell-socialJan 15 22:36
m4n1shMinceR: yes it isJan 15 22:36
MinceRpresumably right ahead of copyright infringement. :>Jan 15 22:36
MinceRmurder is way behindJan 15 22:36
m4n1shcopyright infringerment?Jan 15 22:36
MinceRof course.Jan 15 22:36
m4n1shhow it came into picture?Jan 15 22:36
m4n1shwho did copyright infringerment?Jan 15 22:36
MinceRm4n1sh: well, there's this completely warped idea of what crime is greater than whatJan 15 22:36
gnufreexSo I can go to Microsoft forums, promote GNU/Linux, and then cry when they flame me?Jan 15 22:36
MinceRincluding that copyright infringers are punished more than rapists and murderersJan 15 22:36
MinceRi was guessing that it's connected to your ideology somehowJan 15 22:37
m4n1shMinceR: which copyright infringement?Jan 15 22:37
m4n1shyou talking aboutJan 15 22:37
MinceRthings such as using p2p filesharing technology to download and upload musicJan 15 22:37
sebsebsebm4n1sh: hmm more of this as I was catching up on backlogJan 15 22:37
m4n1shas usual, you people have diverted the topicJan 15 22:37
m4n1shwhat was the origin topic?Jan 15 22:37
sebsebsebMinceR: anyway uhmm  not all of us here are 100% anti MonoJan 15 22:37
sebsebsebwrong oneJan 15 22:37
m4n1shnielsen was abused?Jan 15 22:37
sebsebsebm4n1sh:Jan 15 22:37
m4n1shrightJan 15 22:37
MinceRm4n1sh: hard to follow the topic when you keep spouting nonsenseJan 15 22:37
m4n1shMinceR: nonsense?Jan 15 22:37
m4n1shwhich nonsense?Jan 15 22:38
MinceRm4n1sh: i suspect you're pulling our legsJan 15 22:38
m4n1shnielsen was abused and you people are supporting this move?Jan 15 22:38
MinceRnonsense like "answers to questions aren't claims"Jan 15 22:38
MinceRand "i never claim anything, ever, that i can't prove"Jan 15 22:38
sebsebsebm4n1sh: I am in the middle personally when it comes to Mono,  I can see how it can be a possible threat,  because it uses a Microsoft thing, and Microsoft may play dirty as a result in the future,  but I also see how some pretty interesting apps are made with it really such as Banshee and F-SpotJan 15 22:38
MinceRand "verbal abuse is the worst possible crime one can commit"Jan 15 22:38
sebsebsebm4n1sh: ,but I am also not a proper techrights person anyway,  I used to help loads with Ubuntu people online and that, uhmm  I will be doing community stuff for another distro and yep :)Jan 15 22:38
gnufreexYou didn't answer m4n1dh. Could I cry about being flamed if I go to MSFT forums and promte competing technlogies? That is exactly what Nielsen did.Jan 15 22:39
MinceRand that you apparently don't understand the difference between depending on it in base system components (and installing it by default) and offering it as a nondefault package in a repositoryJan 15 22:39
gnufreexHe tried to push trojan horse into Fedora.Jan 15 22:39
MinceRgnufreex: oh, but m$ people are allowed to do anything. didn't you get the memo?Jan 15 22:39
sebsebsebm4n1sh: personalley I do not read many of schestowitz blog posts either, but some of them are quite good,  the latest one about omgubuntu and David Neilson  I wasn't that keen on thoughJan 15 22:39
m4n1shsebsebseb: I know which part of mono is dangerousJan 15 22:40
m4n1shand which notJan 15 22:40
m4n1shnielsen was abused and you people are supporting this move?Jan 15 22:40
m4n1shthat is my major questionJan 15 22:40
MinceRanother piece of nonsense: "it's all right if you commit crimes as long as you get paid for it"Jan 15 22:40
m4n1shso if I do something which you people dont like, you got an excuse to abuse me?Jan 15 22:40
m4n1shs/excuse/rightJan 15 22:40
m4n1shsebsebseb: omgubuntu doesnt care about technology. The editors are non-techiesJan 15 22:40
sebsebsebm4n1sh: (obviosuly he has done a load of blog posts since then, but I meant the latest one about omgubuntu)  also many people in the Linux community or at least if you look closely enough at identica,  don't really like omgubuntu that muchJan 15 22:41
MinceRalso, "m$ employees don't have to care about what harm they cause but i must be careful not to offend them or their families"Jan 15 22:41
m4n1shsebsebseb: people on identica dont liek omgubuntu, I know. Known factJan 15 22:41
MinceRi wonder whyJan 15 22:41
m4n1shI left identica, its impossible to have a rationale discussion with people on identicaJan 15 22:41
MinceRperhaps because omgubuntu is a hive of monomaniacsJan 15 22:41
sebsebsebm4n1sh: oh?Jan 15 22:42
m4n1shMinceR: because it is successfulJan 15 22:42
MinceRm4n1sh: so you think we only take an issue with your beloved m$ because they're "successful"?Jan 15 22:42
m4n1shnot ms dudeJan 15 22:42
schestowitzFox is also "successful"Jan 15 22:42
m4n1sham talking about omgubuntuJan 15 22:42
schestowitzHigh ratingsJan 15 22:42
gnufreexIMHO, Nielsen is Microsoft TE. He fits into Evangelism is War quite nicely. I will write blog post about that.Jan 15 22:42
schestowitzDoesn't make it goodJan 15 22:42
MinceRm4n1sh: so you assert that people have an issue with omgubuntu because it's "successful", not because it's full of shit and because they insult free software proponents?Jan 15 22:43
m4n1shschestowitz: tell one one more source of ubuntu news which is good?Jan 15 22:43
MinceRm4n1sh: read their rant on "neckbeards"Jan 15 22:43
schestowitzMinceR: I keep a Ubuntu sectionJan 15 22:43
m4n1shMinceR: it dont agree on it muchJan 15 22:43
MinceRof course, they don't have to be polite, do they?Jan 15 22:43
sebsebsebm4n1sh: techrights uhmm, well obviously certain people get annoyed at it at times, because schestowitz isn't scared to express his opinion about stuff,  and stuff that yes will annoy other people at times,  but hey its the Internet right, people are alloweed to express their opinions on it?Jan 15 22:43
m4n1shschestowitz: it only contains mono hatredJan 15 22:43
schestowitztwice a day or once I post many Ubuntu/Canonical linksJan 15 22:43
m4n1shsebsebseb: same with omgubutnuJan 15 22:43
schestowitzI remove thr chaffJan 15 22:43
MinceRm4n1sh: what do you don't agree with much?Jan 15 22:44
m4n1shschestowitz: omgubuntu does better reviews. They cater to newbies and not idealistsJan 15 22:44
m4n1shMinceR: all the points on neckbeards postJan 15 22:44
sebsebsebm4n1sh: as schestowitz basically said before omgubuntu is a good site for finding out about Ubuntu, but they mention Mono a bit to much.  ok he didn't quite say like that, but something like that, and he can tell you for himself what he thinks of omgubuntu anywayJan 15 22:44
m4n1shsebsebseb: they are agnositc of technologyJan 15 22:44
MinceRthey indoctrinate newbies to like mono without knowing the issues and to disregard freedom, you mean?Jan 15 22:45
m4n1shjoey told thisJan 15 22:45
m4n1shhe is not a programmerJan 15 22:45
m4n1shjust a normal userJan 15 22:45
m4n1shMinceR: they present applications, choose yourselfJan 15 22:45
sebsebsebm4n1sh: omgubuntu people don't really care that much about lisences,  so they will mention propritary software sometimes for Linux, Mono software sometimes well a lot of the time,  and then other types at timesJan 15 22:45
m4n1shthey dont push it down the throatJan 15 22:45
MinceRm4n1sh: but you do realise that some identica users might have taken offense at the "neckbeards" post, right?Jan 15 22:45
sebsebsebm4n1sh: Joey started using Ubuntu back in 2007 as his first distro I think,  and that Benjamin guy in 2009 I think, so they are both newbies still really, when it comes to Desktop LinuxJan 15 22:46
m4n1shMinceR: why am I concerned with this? ask Ben for neckbeard post. i did not write itJan 15 22:46
gnufreexNo, he don't get that. Because SpaceBoy and Buntus can insult anyone.Jan 15 22:46
MinceR233954 < m4n1sh> sebsebseb: people on identica dont liek omgubuntu, I know. Known factJan 15 22:46
MinceR234011 < m4n1sh> I left identica, its impossible to have a rationale discussion with people on identicaJan 15 22:46
gnufreexAnd when you say something, you are crazy hater.Jan 15 22:46
gnufreexOr necbird.Jan 15 22:46
m4n1shI am notJan 15 22:46
m4n1shi found it impossible ot use identicaJan 15 22:46
qu1j0t3the neckbeard post was juvenile, ignorant, and not worth our attentionJan 15 22:46
m4n1shsebsebseb: which is good. actuallyJan 15 22:47
m4n1shnewbies can write blog posts on linuxJan 15 22:47
m4n1shisnt it goodJan 15 22:47
MinceRthe entirety of omgubuntu is juvenile, ignorant, and not worth our attentionJan 15 22:47
m4n1shqu1j0t3: catch ben for thatJan 15 22:47
MinceRand most monomaniac stuff is like thatJan 15 22:47
qu1j0t3probably, MinceRJan 15 22:47
sebsebsebm4n1sh: thing with Mono is,  mention Mono I mean advertise a program for example that's Mono,  and going to annoy  quite a lot of  people in the Linux community, because of how things areJan 15 22:47
m4n1shMinceR: same for techrightsJan 15 22:47
MinceRm4n1sh: how so?Jan 15 22:47
m4n1shmore people like omgubuntu than techrightsJan 15 22:47
qu1j0t3so what?Jan 15 22:47
MinceRm4n1sh: remember, that even by your definition that was a claimJan 15 22:47
MinceRm4n1sh: so time to show us the proofJan 15 22:47
m4n1shMinceR: for which one?Jan 15 22:47
qu1j0t3it's not a popularity contest.Jan 15 22:47
sebsebsebm4n1sh: a bit like how Canonical doing big moves such as Unity instead of Gnome Shell, and now even as an option instead of the Gnome 2 fall back option, with Unity 2D,  will annoy people in the Linux community, when they are a for profit company who use copyright assignmetnsJan 15 22:47
m4n1shsebsebseb: talk to Canonical about this. Why me?Jan 15 22:48
sebsebsebm4n1sh: take upstream Gnome for example, they can't adopt Unity whilst it has copyright assignmentsJan 15 22:48
MinceRm4n1sh: you claimed that techrights was juvenile, ignorant, and not worth our attention.Jan 15 22:48
m4n1shsebsebseb: I dont speak for canonicalJan 15 22:48
sebsebsebm4n1sh: I knowJan 15 22:48
m4n1shMinceR: exactlyJan 15 22:48
MinceRm4n1sh: so, where's the proof?Jan 15 22:48
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: so what are you doing here?Jan 15 22:48
sebsebsebm4n1sh: neither Jono for the techboard, but I am just using as an exampleJan 15 22:48
m4n1shqu1j0t3: i came to talk to schestowitzJan 15 22:48
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: go away and give your atetention to worthies elsewhereJan 15 22:48
MinceRcorrection: you came to troll schestowitzJan 15 22:48
sebsebsebqu1j0t3: shhJan 15 22:48
m4n1shqu1j0t3: you have no right to ask me to goJan 15 22:48
MinceRnot exactly the same thingJan 15 22:48
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: LOL!Jan 15 22:49
m4n1shMinceR: schestowitz doesnt think  so, we had s good chat, not like thisJan 15 22:49
*sebsebseb thinks its ok for m4n1sh to be here, public channel after allJan 15 22:49
MinceRalso, for a while i was unsure if m4n1sh was trolling or just stupidJan 15 22:49
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: i'm just pointing out the contradiction, you think TR is not worth your attention, but here you are giving it attention. why?Jan 15 22:49
MinceRnow i'm pretty sure he's just pretending to be that stupidJan 15 22:49
m4n1shqu1j0t3: i dont care, I support omgubuntu more than techrightsJan 15 22:49
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: so what?Jan 15 22:49
MinceRqu1j0t3: he's reaching for any insult he can hurl at usJan 15 22:49
m4n1shMinceR: less than youJan 15 22:49
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: what did you want to ask schestowitz?Jan 15 22:49
MinceRor at the free software communityJan 15 22:49
m4n1shqu1j0t3: you called omgubtu as thatJan 15 22:49
sebsebsebm4n1sh: are you here, because of the recent attack on omgubuntu and David Neilson?Jan 15 22:49
m4n1shi pointed my viewsJan 15 22:49
m4n1shsebsebseb: nopeJan 15 22:49
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: no, i said the neckbeard post was.Jan 15 22:49
m4n1shdifferent topicJan 15 22:50
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: please pay attentionJan 15 22:50
m4n1shqu1j0t3: not you. someone else said thatJan 15 22:50
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: rightJan 15 22:50
MinceRhe can't pay attention, both of his neurons are occupied with worshipping m$.Jan 15 22:50
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: then you said the same of TR.Jan 15 22:50
sebsebsebm4n1sh: yeah something elseJan 15 22:50
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: yet, here you are.Jan 15 22:50
sebsebsebhe came here to tell schestowitz about something he wrote wrong on the blogJan 15 22:50
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: maybe you were joking?Jan 15 22:50
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: there's a contradiction somewhere...Jan 15 22:50
m4n1shMinceR: 4 of your are writingJan 15 22:51
m4n1shI am replying to all of you at a timeJan 15 22:51
qu1j0t3m4n1sh: what did you want to tell schestowitz?Jan 15 22:51
m4n1shqu1j0t3: why you have to care why i came to talk to schestowitzJan 15 22:51
sebsebsebqu1j0t3: see aboveJan 15 22:51
sebsebsebqu1j0t3: he's done it alreadyJan 15 22:51
MinceRm4n1sh: you didn't make more sense when there was only 1 person talking to youJan 15 22:51
qu1j0t3he didn't come here to make sense, methinksJan 15 22:51
m4n1shMinceR: see, you cant talk straightJan 15 22:51
m4n1shinstead relying on attacking meJan 15 22:52
m4n1shlikeJan 15 22:52
m4n1sh<MinceR> he can't pay attention, both of his neurons are occupied with worshipping m$.Jan 15 22:52
MinceRm4n1sh: talking straight didn't work, did it?Jan 15 22:52
*sebsebseb m4n1sh didn't come here to cause trouble, as is shown in the chat aboveJan 15 22:52
MinceRm4n1sh: you've failed to answer most of my questionsJan 15 22:52
sebsebsebuh wrong useage of /me there, but it stands out better like that :DJan 15 22:52
MinceRm4n1sh: you claimed that you can prove all your claimsJan 15 22:52
m4n1shMinceR: which ones?Jan 15 22:52
MinceRm4n1sh: yet when you were called upon it, you failed to deliverJan 15 22:52
m4n1shname itJan 15 22:52
MinceRm4n1sh: you said you could prove every one of your claims that weren't answers to questions, did you not?Jan 15 22:53
MinceRi've named it twiceJan 15 22:53
MinceRi won't name it more timesJan 15 22:53
sebsebsebm4n1sh: I think many of these people are rather worried about the direction of Ubuntu and where it is heading, not just Mono, but Unity and so on as well realyJan 15 22:53
m4n1shsebsebseb: "directX is embedded within silicon" isnt it a bit weird soundthing thing?Jan 15 22:53
MinceRsorry, your imbecile m$ troll tactics won't workJan 15 22:53
m4n1shthat was what i came to askJan 15 22:53
MinceRincluding the "make the other person ask you the same question over and over, never replying"Jan 15 22:53
m4n1shsebsebseb: I dont have control over Unity and desktop teamJan 15 22:53
sebsebsebm4n1sh: yep I guess soJan 15 22:53
sebsebsebm4n1sh: I knowJan 15 22:53
m4n1shsebsebseb: it is a meritocracy and I need to work on it to gain powers to influenceJan 15 22:53
MinceRand including the "ask the same stupid question over and over until your opponents get tired of it"Jan 15 22:54
sebsebsebm4n1sh: ,but this is why, well your getting some of the stuff from these guys your getting now, I guessJan 15 22:54
m4n1shsebsebseb: .. and I cant sit on an armchair and dictate the desktop development guysJan 15 22:54
sebsebsebm4n1sh: since they are not keen on the direction of Ubuntu at the moemntJan 15 22:54
m4n1shsebsebseb: keen on the direction? I know the inside out, but cant force my viewsJan 15 22:54
gnufreex<m4n1sh> sebsebseb: "directX is embedded within silicon" isnt it a bit weird soundthing thing?Jan 15 22:55
gnufreexSo you found one mistake in 10 000 posts. Are you happy?Jan 15 22:55
m4n1shgnufreex: moreJan 15 22:55
m4n1shthis is the latestJan 15 22:55
m4n1shand i have no interest in goign backJan 15 22:55
*sebsebseb thinks its fine for m4n1sh to come here to point out a mistake in schestowitz blog postJan 15 22:55
gnufreexWhat DirectX had to do with anything here?Jan 15 22:55
m4n1shgnufreex: I am not a part of armchair revolutionary  armyJan 15 22:55
m4n1shgnufreex: in that blog postJan 15 22:55
m4n1shhw come directx be embedded in silicon?Jan 15 22:56
MinceRi suspect it's just a strange way to phrase "hw support for certain directx 11 features", which would be the same as recent opengl features anywayJan 15 22:56
gnufreexWhat revolutionary army? What that supose to mean?Jan 15 22:56
m4n1shsebsebseb: schestowitz did accept that it is not the case. He was politeJan 15 22:56
sebsebsebgnufreex: MinceR  ok so he found a mistake on the blog, and comes here to point it out, thats a good thing really :)   mistakes don't look good in textJan 15 22:56
MinceRsebsebseb: sure, but that's not all he did, was it?Jan 15 22:56
m4n1shMinceR: there is nothing ask directx support in cardJan 15 22:56
m4n1shdirectx talks to driversJan 15 22:56
m4n1shthey just told they will provide drivers for windowsJan 15 22:57
m4n1shthat's otJan 15 22:57
MinceRm4n1sh: sure, but it specifies certain featuresJan 15 22:57
m4n1shitJan 15 22:57
sebsebsebMinceR: I went through back log,  m4n1sh hasn't trolled hereJan 15 22:57
m4n1shthe driver will have featuresJan 15 22:57
MinceRm4n1sh: at least that's how GPU marketing has worked for yearsJan 15 22:57
MinceRit's sad, of courseJan 15 22:57
m4n1shMinceR: its marketingJan 15 22:57
m4n1shsensationalismJan 15 22:57
MinceRthey shouldn't promote a closed m$ API when they're aiming to promote GPU featuresJan 15 22:57
gnufreex"DirectX in chip" is same as OpenGL in chip.Jan 15 22:57
gnufreexUnless they found a way to lock out OpenGLJan 15 22:57
m4n1shgnufreex: none of them are on a chip FYIJan 15 22:57
m4n1shMinceR: closed MS API?Jan 15 22:58
MinceRm4n1sh: directxJan 15 22:58
m4n1shit is closed GPU API to be preciseJan 15 22:58
gnufreexI know they are not in chip... you mean I am idiot?Jan 15 22:58
MinceRm4n1sh: they did name directx, so that's what they're addvertisingJan 15 22:58
MinceRs/dd/d/Jan 15 22:58
gnufreexFeatures are in chipJan 15 22:58
m4n1shMinceR:  its advertisementJan 15 22:58
gnufreexand they support bothJan 15 22:58
MinceRi know, right?Jan 15 22:58
m4n1shso how come dirextc be in a chip?Jan 15 22:58
m4n1shits just that the driver will be powerufl enoughJan 15 22:58
m4n1shthat's itJan 15 22:58
m4n1shand rest is marketing termsJan 15 22:59
m4n1shwith saurceJan 15 22:59
m4n1shand spicesJan 15 22:59
MinceRthat's pretty much what i saidJan 15 22:59
m4n1shto make ti look professionakJan 15 22:59
m4n1shMinceR: yes, so directx in silicon sounds weirdJan 15 22:59
m4n1shdoesnt make senseJan 15 22:59
MinceRagreedJan 15 22:59
m4n1shthat's what I came to point hereJan 15 22:59
MinceRbut it isn't all that new, afaictJan 15 22:59
MinceRalso, it was probably taken from another articleJan 15 23:00
gnufreexSo, what that has to do with Mono?Jan 15 23:00
m4n1shgnufreex: nothingJan 15 23:00
m4n1shhow did mono come in picture. i have no clueJan 15 23:00
m4n1shi came for this postJan 15 23:00
m4n1shgn peopleJan 15 23:02
m4n1shneed to sleepJan 15 23:02
gnufreexWhere is that DirectX post, I can't find it again.Jan 15 23:02
m4n1shcheck itJan 15 23:02
m4n1shit is pretty newJan 15 23:02
MinceRprobably the one about new intel stuffJan 15 23:02
m4n1shyesJan 15 23:03
gnufreexCan't find it.Jan 15 23:04
m4n1shgnufreex: http://techrights.org/2011/01/12/arm-harm-by-microsoft-windows/Jan 15 23:04
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Microsoft’s ARM Strategy Part of Vapourware Pitching, Maybe Plot to Harm Linux | Techrights .::. Size~: 111.89 KBJan 15 23:04
m4n1shgnJan 15 23:05
*m4n1sh has quit (Quit: Leaving)Jan 15 23:05
MinceRso, canonical is all about the "no matter what you do as long as you're polite" bullshit now?Jan 15 23:08
gnufreexYeah, but they are never politeJan 15 23:08
MinceRwell, there's thatJan 15 23:09
gnufreexThey call people crazy neckbeards when they criticize mono.Jan 15 23:09
gnufreexAnd they use their attack dogs to smear anyone who they don't like.Jan 15 23:10
gnufreexLike for example, Mono Bacon called me crazy when I asked him why Canonical supports Mono. There goes OpenDisrespect. Talking with them is like asking cow to fart in your face.Jan 15 23:15
schestowitzcows don't smell muchJan 15 23:16
schestowitzit's farmy balmy smellJan 15 23:16
MinceRwell, when i saw mono bacon chat on irc it was basically his exercise in never saying anything at allJan 15 23:19
MinceRthen again, i've heard the hatchet job against royJan 15 23:19
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/mjasay/status/26411534909444096Jan 15 23:20
TechrightsBot-sc@mjasay: @jwildeboer @schestowitz I was talking abt the biz side, Jan, so not abt ppl really. Roy, good ptJan 15 23:20
schestowitzmac is nice to meJan 15 23:20
schestowitz"mjasay - 28 mins ago - Twitter for iPhone - in reply to ☛ "Jan 15 23:21
schestowitzTwitter onlyJan 15 23:21
schestowitziPhoneJan 15 23:21
MinceRapparently the hypePhone virtual keyboard fails harder than i thoughtJan 15 23:21
MinceR"abt ppl"Jan 15 23:21
MinceR"pt"Jan 15 23:21
gnufreexiGroanJan 15 23:21
gnufreexiMoanJan 15 23:21
schestowitziGropeJan 15 23:21
gnufreexiBadJan 15 23:22
schestowitzja ja!!Jan 15 23:22
MinceRat least he's back to his true crApple-worshipper colorsJan 15 23:24
gnufreexThat is what "open source" rebranding gives you. Yeah, more people will come. But wrong people.Jan 15 23:25
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/2010/04/07/ipad-misconceptions-in-the-press/Jan 15 23:25
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Apple Apologists | Techrights .::. Size~: 110.99 KBJan 15 23:25
MinceRindeedJan 15 23:25
schestowitzgnufreex: see the IDG 'open source' blogJan 15 23:25
schestowitzThey have Microsoft staff thereJan 15 23:25
schestowitzand stephen from xenJan 15 23:25
schestowitzright now bragging about his macJan 15 23:25
schestowitzin an 'open source' blogJan 15 23:26
schestowitzButt...Jan 15 23:26
schestowitzIt's worseJan 15 23:26
schestowitzHe uses this open source blog to repeatedly mock desktop Linux with the "1%" lieJan 15 23:26
schestowitz"Linux dead" and allJan 15 23:26
schestowitzworse than omgubuntuJan 15 23:26
schestowitzat least the latter want linux to be popularJan 15 23:27
gnufreexNo, OMGBUNTU wants Ubuntu to be popularJan 15 23:27
gnufreexFailing that, then at least encumbered with Mono.Jan 15 23:27
MinceRwell, m$ doesn't mind if mono-based gnu/linux gets popularJan 15 23:27
MinceRbecause they can kill that with swpatent FUD/lawsuitsJan 15 23:28
gnufreexEven better, they can make money from itJan 15 23:28
MinceRyeahJan 15 23:28
gnufreexMake it more expensive than Windows, with 0 R&D spendings for them.Jan 15 23:28
MinceRi was about to say "or just kick all the competitors out of the market and take over it"Jan 15 23:28
MinceRmaybe even rebrand it to "windows"Jan 15 23:29
schestowitzseven is stronger brand nowJan 15 23:30
schestowitzKIN absorbed the skull and bonesJan 15 23:30
schestowitzAnd now Vista Phony 7 ruins "Windows"Jan 15 23:30
schestowitzUbuntu SevenJan 15 23:30
MinceR:>Jan 15 23:30
schestowitzUbuntu Eleven SevenJan 15 23:30
gnufreexFunny thing is, most of Canonical management is fine with that, and that is probably the reason why they are hostile to Free Software.Jan 15 23:30
schestowitzDelay by 3 monthsJan 15 23:31
MinceRand then they don't understand why we hate them...Jan 15 23:31
gnufreexThey would like to have users that don't mind Canonical getting bought.Jan 15 23:31
gnufreexBy MicrosoftJan 15 23:31
schestowitz"why do they hate us?"(R)Jan 15 23:31
MinceR"haters"Jan 15 23:31
schestowitzWasn't it a famous phrase post-9/11?Jan 15 23:31
MinceRdunnoJan 15 23:32
schestowitzA: cause we are the bestestJan 15 23:32
schestowitzgnJan 15 23:32
MinceRi wasn't so immersed in itJan 15 23:32
MinceRgoing?Jan 15 23:32
gnufreexAnd users who dont mind paying for proprietary software.Jan 15 23:32
*MinceR waves to schestowitz Jan 15 23:32
sebsebsebMinceR: what was that about re branding?Jan 15 23:45
sebsebseboh that was gnufreexJan 15 23:45
gnufreexsebsebseb: ?Jan 15 23:45
sebsebseb[23:23] <gnufreex> That is what "open source" rebranding gives you. Yeah, more people will come. But wrong people.Jan 15 23:46
sebsebsebgnufreex: oh something about the IpadJan 15 23:46
sebsebsebI guess you meant it uses quite a bit of  open source really, but then Apple re brand it?Jan 15 23:46
gnufreexNoJan 15 23:46
MinceRsebsebseb: well, if m$ managed to make gnu/linux dependent on mono (just as monomaniacs want it), and thus on their sw patents, they could acquire one gnu/linux distro (say, suse) and rebrand it to windows and sell it as the new version of windowsJan 15 23:46
gnufreexI meant that "Open sore" is rebrand of "Free SOftware"Jan 15 23:47
MinceRi seeJan 15 23:47
sebsebsebopen sore?Jan 15 23:47
sebsebsebopen sourceJan 15 23:47
gnufreexWith purpose of geting more people.Jan 15 23:47
MinceRopen sores.Jan 15 23:47
gnufreexAnd more people comeJan 15 23:47
gnufreexBut not kind of people you would like.Jan 15 23:47
MinceRwell, it was originally aimed at businessmen.Jan 15 23:47
sebsebsebI think we need strong alternative distros that are user friendly and suitable for newbies, but also expereinced usersJan 15 23:48
sebsebsebalternatives to Ubuntu that isJan 15 23:48
MinceRindeedJan 15 23:48
sebsebsebI had a chat with someone about this kind of thing else where a little while agoJan 15 23:48
sebsebsebanyway if we look at current distros they all suck really for thisJan 15 23:48
MinceRalso, free software needs to be driven by developers, not profit-oriented businessesJan 15 23:48
sebsebsebhowever give it some time and Mageia may be the kind of thing I am wanting :DJan 15 23:48
MinceRat least the software that forms the basis of the infrastructureJan 15 23:49
sebsebsebalso  people who want appliances like this guy was basically saying, would find Unity suitableJan 15 23:49
sebsebseb,but us that want a generic desktop won't  really like itJan 15 23:49
sebsebsebanyway Unity is hmm, but so is recent Gnome Shell from what I seen, they both got docks uh!Jan 15 23:50
*sebsebseb still hasn't tried a later Gnome Shell with the dockJan 15 23:50
MinceRafaict unity is the idea that "hey, netbooks have low-resolution screens. what should we do about that? oh, i know, waste even more screen space!"Jan 15 23:50
MinceRand they put a huge vertical panel thereJan 15 23:50
MinceRin addition to the horizontal oneJan 15 23:51
sebsebsebnow instead of only the Gnome 2 fall back, they got Unity 2dJan 15 23:51
*gnufreex_ (~quassel@79-101-134-55.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) has joined #boycottnovell-socialJan 15 23:51
sebsebsebas wellJan 15 23:51
sebsebsebgnufreex: oh lost you?Jan 15 23:51
sebsebsebMinceR: anyway I think Desktop Linux is starting to get a bit worrying reallyJan 15 23:52
MinceRi've set my netbook up to have only a thin vertical panel, but i had to realize that websites tend to expect that the screen is at least 1024 pixels wideJan 15 23:52
gnufreex_Yeah, it timed out.Jan 15 23:52
sebsebsebMinceR: I mean where things are heading or seem to be headingJan 15 23:52
*gnufreex has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)Jan 15 23:52
gnufreex_Give me a back logJan 15 23:52
gnufreex_from my last commentJan 15 23:52
MinceRsebsebseb: agreed, especially if the monomaniacs and novell2.0 get their wayJan 15 23:52
MinceRbut even kde4 is somewhat worrying for meJan 15 23:52
sebsebsebMinceR: well ok if you like Mono to an extent, but  I mean Unity and Gnome Shell and that kind of thing mainlyJan 15 23:52
gnufreex_Gnome Shell don't have monoJan 15 23:53
MinceRalso crackpot ideas such as client-side decorationsJan 15 23:53
sebsebsebgnufreex_: no, but it has a dockJan 15 23:53
sebsebseblike I  was saying just nowJan 15 23:53
gnufreex_Dock is not monoJan 15 23:53
MinceRhttp://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/333Jan 15 23:53
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Mark Shuttleworth  » Blog Archive   » Window indicators .::. Size~: 265.69 KBJan 15 23:53
MinceRthat's pure, concentrated idiocy right thereJan 15 23:54
MinceRcrApple-gradeJan 15 23:54
sebsebsebgnufreex_: back log, here or pm?Jan 15 23:54
sebsebsebgnufreex_: no, but docks suck reallyJan 15 23:54
sebsebsebDock is like AppleJan 15 23:54
gnufreex_actually I think Dock is one of few good features in crApple OSXJan 15 23:54
MinceRand of course this crap >> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicatorsJan 15 23:54
TechrightsBot-scTitle: DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators - Ubuntu Wiki .::. Size~: 69.09 KBJan 15 23:54
gnufreex_I agree with MinceR on "windicators"Jan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:45] <MinceR> well, it was originally aimed at businessmen.Jan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:46] <sebsebseb> I think we need strong alternative distros that are user friendly and suitable for newbies, but also expereinced usersJan 15 23:55
gnufreex_IdiocyJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:46] <sebsebseb> alternatives to Ubuntu that isJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:46] <MinceR> indeedJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:46] <sebsebseb> I had a chat with someone about this kind of thing else where a little while agoJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:46] <sebsebseb> anyway if we look at current distros they all suck really for thisJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:46] <MinceR> also, free software needs to be driven by developers, not profit-oriented businessesJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:46] <sebsebseb> however give it some time and Mageia may be the kind of thing I am wanting :DJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:47] <MinceR> at least the software that forms the basis of the infrastructureJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:47] <sebsebseb> also  people who want appliances like this guy was basically saying, would find Unity suitableJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:47] <sebsebseb> ,but us that want a generic desktop won't  really like itJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:48] <sebsebseb> anyway Unity is hmm, but so is recent Gnome Shell from what I seen, they both got docks uh!Jan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:48] * sebsebseb still hasn't tried a later Gnome Shell with the dockJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:48] <MinceR> afaict unity is the idea that "hey, netbooks have low-resolution screens. what should we do about that? oh, i know, waste even more screen space!"Jan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:48] <MinceR> and they put a huge vertical panel thereJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:49] <MinceR> in addition to the horizontal oneJan 15 23:55
sebsebseb[23:49] <sebsebseb> now instead of only the Gnome 2 fall back, they got Unity 2dJan 15 23:55
sebsebsebheh in many channels I would have been kicked out for flooding or put on quite at least, because of that ^Jan 15 23:56
sebsebseb,but anyway gnufreex_ you asked for it :)Jan 15 23:56
MinceRnotice that most of these "features" are also designed to make sane applications incompatible with these new insane desktops and new insane applications incompatible with sane desktopsJan 15 23:56
MinceRelimination of tray icon support and new crapplications becoming dependent on client-side decorationsJan 15 23:57
gnufreex_Yeah, that is what I noticed too.Jan 15 23:58
gnufreex_Canonical tries to diferentiate.Jan 15 23:58
sebsebsebMinceR: yeah the indicitaorsJan 15 23:58
MinceRor rather, canonical is playing the m$ gameJan 15 23:58
gnufreex_And that might be one of the reasons why they push monoJan 15 23:58
MinceRembrace, extend, extinguishJan 15 23:58
sebsebsebCanonical took advantage of many of us really, including myselfJan 15 23:58
gnufreex_They know Red Hat won't use it.Jan 15 23:58
sebsebsebyou know promoting their productJan 15 23:58
sebsebsebhelping people use itJan 15 23:58
sebsebsebfor yearsJan 15 23:58
sebsebsebbeing a fan boy really even in my caseJan 15 23:58
gnufreex_And they push CA because others wont use their corporate projects.Jan 15 23:58
sebsebsebok I didn't know as much about this stuff as I know now by a long way, but stillJan 15 23:59
sebsebsebthey took advantage of meJan 15 23:59
sebsebsebthen started to let me down with 9.04Jan 15 23:59
sebsebseband well much more of that  as the releases went onJan 15 23:59

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