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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: April 15th, 2019 – April 21st, 2019

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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Binance Labs Grants $45,000 to 3 Open-Source Blockchain Startup []Apr 15 04:05
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: # Rasa Gets Investment []Apr 15 08:50
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #FlexiWAN Adopts an 'Open' Slant not sure if #openwashing but is has the symptoms []Apr 15 08:58
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers []Apr 15 09:03
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 15/4/2019: Linux 5.1 RC5 and SolydXK Reviewed []Apr 15 09:08
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Happy 15th Birthday CentOS! []Apr 15 17:29
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XRevan86MinceR: Not the worst that ever happened to 15 20:07
MinceRyeah, the worst was that it was bought by m$Apr 15 20:07
XRevan86MinceR: I had something else in mind, but that works too.Apr 15 20:11
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XRevan86 too soon?Apr 15 21:18
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MinceRnothing is ever too soon, at least when it comes to comedyApr 15 21:25
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XRevan86MinceR: Benefits of the Reptiloid rule.Apr 15 22:28
MinceR:)Apr 15 22:29
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux 5.0.7, 4.19.34, 4.14.111, and 4.9.168 []Apr 16 02:55
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian 10 Buster's Installer Reaches RC Phase - Finally Offers Secure Boot Support []Apr 16 03:15
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schestowitzRichard Stallman wrote on 15/04/2019 04:36:>   > Last week I read the CoC for LF conferences. I have not yet read theApr 16 06:52
schestowitz>   > ones which applies to online communications. I will ask around as maybeApr 16 06:52
schestowitz>   > some techrights members know it.Apr 16 06:52
schestowitz> Apr 16 06:52
schestowitz> If we can demonstrate that it really prohibits condemning MicrosoftApr 16 06:52
schestowitz> that would be a convincing criticism.Apr 16 06:52
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schestowitz>   > I added some links to this text. I am very reluctant to say much on theApr 16 06:56
schestowitz>   > subject as there's a tendency to accuse the messenger of sexism andApr 16 06:56
schestowitz>   > question the messenger's motivations.Apr 16 06:56
schestowitz> Apr 16 06:56
schestowitz> Would you please send me the URLs linked to, and show me the parts orApr 16 06:56
schestowitz> passages of the articles linked to?Apr 16 06:56
schestowitzThe URL in question composed by Microsoft staff Apr 16 06:56
schestowitz 16 06:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | ClearlyDefined Update | Open Source InitiativeApr 16 06:56
schestowitzAlso see:Apr 16 06:56
schestowitz 16 06:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Join OSI and Microsoft in the new ClearlyDefined projectApr 16 06:56
schestowitz"BTW, that RT interview with you (pre-recorded and published yesterday) was badly done.  The host was looking for a confrontation where none was needed. She was not as bad as a man on the same channel, someone I recall being a lot older and heckling you on the show. The media has such a low level of tolerate for dissenting voices."Apr 16 07:01
schestowitzThe RMS interview in question: " 16 07:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Richard Stallman: Facebook is surveillance monster feeding on our personal data RT — SophieCoApr 16 07:03
schestowitzRichard Stallman wrote on 15/04/2019 04:36:>   > The screenshot is a small portion from a sponsorship brochure. It showsApr 16 07:07
schestowitz>   > that for the price (sponsorship) of $10,000 you get tweets in yourApr 16 07:07
schestowitz>   > support from the LF and also from Jono Bacon, who admits in his blogApr 16 07:07
schestowitz>   > that LF is his "client".Apr 16 07:07
schestowitz> Apr 16 07:07
schestowitz> That sounds really bad.  But I can't make use of a screenshot.Apr 16 07:07
schestowitz> Can you show me, as ASCII text, the pertinent textApr 16 07:07
schestowitz> and tell me what URL it is in?  With that info, I could refer to it.Apr 16 07:07
schestowitz“3 Social Media Sponsor Mentions from Linux Foundation and 1 from Jono Bacon’s (OCC Chair) Twitter account”Apr 16 07:07
schestowitzScreenshot from Page 14 [full page as JPG]: 16 07:07
schestowitz>   > To see the tweets in question would require me browsing a massiveApr 16 07:10
schestowitz>   > archive, going back to days (fates) round the event in question. ThatApr 16 07:10
schestowitz>   > would be a big task.Apr 16 07:10
schestowitz> Apr 16 07:10
schestowitz> I understand.Apr 16 07:10
schestowitz> Apr 16 07:10
schestowitz> When you see such a tweet in the future, could you send me the detailsApr 16 07:10
schestowitz> right then, when you have them?Apr 16 07:10
schestowitzI've asked a Finnish friends to scan his tweets and he found some other interesting things, such as Bacon no longer using GNU/Linux. He uses a "Mac"-branded PC now, just like Zemlin.Apr 16 07:10
schestowitzSo much for "Linux" Foundation...Apr 16 07:10
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 'New' Microsoft and Right to Repair Bills []Apr 16 08:41
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Inter-process communication in Linux: Using pipes and message queues []Apr 16 09:15
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Apr 16 09:16
MinceR 16 11:09
XRevan86> The RMS interview in question: " 16 11:18
XRevan86Oh boy, he made a new one?Apr 16 11:18
schestowitzyeahApr 16 11:29
schestowitzdid you see the old one with an ol' man?Apr 16 11:29
schestowitzEven worse than SophieApr 16 11:29
schestowitzRT idiotsApr 16 11:29
schestowitzMinceR:  DnD stuff.Apr 16 11:30
MinceRindeedApr 16 11:30
XRevan86schestowitz: this one?Apr 16 11:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Stallman: Facebook IS Mass Surveillance — RT World NewsApr 16 11:33
XRevan86The video starts with showing code scrolled in GNU nanoApr 16 11:39
XRevan86Not GNU Emacs? Blasphemy!Apr 16 11:39
MinceRthey wanted a text editorApr 16 11:40
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XRevan86schestowitz: Sofico Shevardnadze is a familiar name, but I cannot remember from where. Scanning news sites didn't reveal any controversies, so at least it seems from that that she didn't… get herself widely known.Apr 16 11:59
XRevan86unlike, say, the editor-in-chief of RT Margarita SimonyanApr 16 12:00
XRevan86… or her husband Tigran KeosayanApr 16 12:01
schestowitzhusband?Apr 16 12:04
schestowitzis there nepotism at RT?Apr 16 12:04
XRevan86As far as I know, he's not involved in RT, but he's in Russian television.Apr 16 12:05
XRevan86And they've made a film together (on the Russian Cinema Foundation money, heh):!Apr 16 12:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ )Apr 16 12:06
XRevan862.6/10 on KinoPoiskApr 16 12:07
XRevan86a major disasterApr 16 12:07
schestowitz[11:32] <XRevan86> schestowitz: this one?Apr 16 12:08
schestowitzvideo doesn't load, but based on the date, this might be the jokerApr 16 12:08
XRevan86 Russian, German, Hebrew, no EnglishApr 16 12:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Krim (2017) – WikipediaApr 16 12:09
XRevan86not related to Simonyan, I was just reminded of this flickApr 16 12:10
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*XRevan86 watched half of the new interviewApr 16 12:31
XRevan86schestowitz: I've seen worse RMS interviews.Apr 16 12:32
schestowitzdoing a story on FSF atmApr 16 12:34
schestowitzThis angle of the story has generally required me to do a lot of editing after asking around without divulging some identities/names. Let me think how to handle this...Apr 16 12:34
schestowitz> Right. Truth needs to be told. I wonder if it's in the history.Apr 16 12:43
schestowitz> Anyway it was rejected in minutes and original reverted. Apr 16 12:43
schestowitz> I have that happen to me on censorpedia, pretty much anytime I try to post stuff.Apr 16 12:43
schestowitz> Apr 16 12:43
schestowitz> That was another scandal - the editors were taking payment to watch certain corp pages years ago.Apr 16 12:43
schestowitz> It's all sickening.Apr 16 12:43
schestowitzRMS has just sent me about 10 emails. He's reading everything.Apr 16 12:43
schestowitz>> He's a good source.Apr 16 12:43
schestowitz"I, myself," explained the reader, "am curious about what I had heard about the Code of Conduct enforcement at LibrePlanet and how it seemed RMS was pressured into abiding by a CoC. That, in itself, is very disturbing to me.  I don't know what exactly is going on over there, but it looks like somehow, they are pressuring him to abide by a CoC. I'll be looking forward to see your results - or get to the bottom of it."Apr 16 12:44
schestowitz"Apr 16 12:45
schestowitzInteresting about Censorpedia. Apr 16 12:45
schestowitzWhen I was at FSF, one of my tasks - my main tasks, was to let people know about GFDL. Then, Jimmy and Wikipedia came along and people were aware, working on free information and it seemed good. Apr 16 12:45
schestowitzInternet Archive also started removing content too. Just a couple of days ago, Jason Scott posted how the French Govt was requesting internet archive to remove content - it's in his twitter. Apr 16 12:45
schestowitzOne was Gutenberg. When I was in Mexico, Adam Holt of Internet in a Box was telling me some countries don't want Gutenberg. You know me, I was upset at that.Apr 16 12:45
schestowitzGreg Newby told me there are a few ways to export Gutenberg - and I'm meeting people tomorrow to revive the library box project for my local group, because I hate this censorship... Apr 16 12:45
schestowitzAll great stuff you are doing. I really think people need to know the facts. Apr 16 12:45
schestowitz"Apr 16 12:45
MinceRshouldn't be surprising after he shilled cancerdApr 16 12:45
XRevan86schestowitz: Can you ask him if he ever looks at (or ?Apr 16 12:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Replies to rms - GNUsocial.noApr 16 12:45
schestowitzMinceR: RMS?Apr 16 12:46
schestowitzhe just didn't oppose itApr 16 12:46
MinceRso what is he for?Apr 16 12:46
schestowitzdiplomacyApr 16 12:46
MinceRsystemd's primary purpose is to destroy its users' freedomsApr 16 12:46
schestowitzmore so nowApr 16 12:46
schestowitzso claim someApr 16 12:46
MinceRand then rms goes to claim "it's free software because of its license"Apr 16 12:46
schestowitzhe is not convinced yetApr 16 12:46
schestowitzI might bring it up to himApr 16 12:47
MinceRwhich is well known to not be the way it worksApr 16 12:47
schestowitzbut not at this timeApr 16 12:47
schestowitzXRevan86: he just reads mailApr 16 12:47
MinceRalso, gnome3 was designed to depend on systemd, while gnome is still part of the gnu projectApr 16 12:47
schestowitzI get lots of messages from him this weekApr 16 12:47
schestowitzonly few of which (impersonal) I pasted hereApr 16 12:47
schestowitzMinceR: not just gnomeApr 16 12:48
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XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: is getting back on its feet? :)Apr 16 12:50
XRevan8619:50 – my favourite part in the interviewApr 16 13:16
XRevan86RMS: … fundamentally the law is wrong because it's…Apr 16 13:16
XRevan86Sofiko: Because what?Apr 16 13:16
XRevan8621:41 – now an actual interruptionApr 16 13:21
XRevan86She didn't like the implication that RF, amongst others, is trying to block dissent through Internet control laws?Apr 16 13:23
XRevan86I'd expect them to give up to trying to hide it already.Apr 16 13:24
XRevan86* on tryingApr 16 13:24
XRevan86Autonomous Internet law my arseApr 16 13:26
XRevan86How would installing DPIs everywhere even remotely help by any degree to keep network integrity?Apr 16 13:26
XRevan86And "France is the most democratic country on Earth right now" is laughable.Apr 16 13:28
schestowitzby the way, you might enjoy phill from gchq:Apr 16 13:36
schestowitz [license: cc by 4.0] -- (NSFW) PHILL from GCHQ | Katharsisdrill | Link is to the 5th strip in the comic, as it is the first one that is arguably SFW -- 16 13:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Phill from GCHQ - episode 5: Boris!Apr 16 13:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | free media allianceApr 16 13:36
schestowitzmany thanks for mentioning us in ircApr 16 13:38
schestowitzfree media allianceApr 16 13:38
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XRevan86schestowitz: "PHILL from GCHQ" – so confusing.Apr 16 14:17
XRevan86But now I have a sudden urge to have a doughnutApr 16 14:19
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights []Apr 16 15:09
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Introducing Unity 2019.1 #microsoft #mono trap []Apr 16 15:11
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla: Hubs Discord Bot, Pyodide, Brussels Mozilla Morning, CCADB and Tor []Apr 16 15:38
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Rapid Progress Of The AV1 Video Format Over The Past Year []Apr 16 15:43
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Caves of Qud, Shipped, Origami Flight and Train Valley 2 []Apr 16 15:55
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Programming Leftovers []Apr 16 16:06
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora 30 Is Approaching The Finish Line But First It Has Some Bugs To Address []Apr 16 16:30
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu 19.04 Delivers A Welcome Surprise For Nvidia GPU Owners []Apr 16 16:31
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Apr 16 16:33
MinceR   ( )Apr 16 16:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | ImgurApr 16 16:39
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DaemonFC[m]MinceR These Disney live remakes are getting completely out of hand.Apr 16 17:37
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: I know what you need: live-action Gravity FallsApr 16 17:38
XRevan86And live-action FuturamaApr 16 17:38
DaemonFC[m]I was talking about The Hunchback of Notre Dame.Apr 16 17:47
DaemonFC[m]The end scene where it's burning down.Apr 16 17:47
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: ln]]Apr 16 17:50
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: ooohApr 16 17:50
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open Source Is Eternal by @glynmoody []Apr 16 18:18
schestowitzMinceR: what is this meme with bug and boy?Apr 16 18:21
schestowitzNew (ish) thing?Apr 16 18:21
MinceRnot bug and boy, garfield and jonApr 16 18:21
MinceRand sort of newish -- 2013 and 2018, iircApr 16 18:22
MinceR 16 18:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Creepy Garfield | Know Your MemeApr 16 18:22
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cubexyzschestowitz, I did say that plan9's last major update was in 2002 but...Apr 17 01:27
cubexyzplan9 was forked... the new version is called 9frontApr 17 01:28
cubexyzthis appeared in 2018Apr 17 01:28
cubexyzsome folks got tired of the lack of updatesApr 17 01:29
cubexyzhttp://9front.orgApr 17 01:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-9FRONT.ORG THE PLAN FELL OFFApr 17 01:29
cubexyzworks on 386, amd64, arm and mipsApr 17 01:30
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schestowitzRichard Stallman wrote on 16/04/2019 22:41:>   > The URL in question composed by Microsoft staffApr 17 06:32
schestowitz> Apr 17 06:32
schestowitz> Thanks, I will look.Apr 17 06:32
schestowitz> Apr 17 06:32
schestowitz>   > BTW, that RT interview with you (pre-recorded and published yesterday)Apr 17 06:32
schestowitz>   > was badly done.Apr 17 06:32
schestowitz> Apr 17 06:32
schestowitz> Yes, that tends to be the case.  The question is, did I manageApr 17 06:32
schestowitz> to use it effectively?Apr 17 06:32
schestowitz> Apr 17 06:32
schestowitz> What do you think?Apr 17 06:32
schestowitzIf it did not take up much of your time.Apr 17 06:32
schestowitzRT contacted me a few times in the past. Sputnik also. I never ever replied, seeing how these things got spun against Wikileaks.Apr 17 06:32
schestowitzI should mention, they only ever invite me on their show to say something negative about the British government, from their studios in the UK.Apr 17 06:32
MinceR 17 06:32
schestowitzI am not desperate for an audience if it'll come at a cost. Quality over quantity I guess.Apr 17 06:32
schestowitzI suppose you know Alex Jones' videos were all taken down, inc. your interview.Apr 17 06:32
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MinceR 17 06:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | ImgurApr 17 06:34
schestowitz> This shows that they don't really care about Linux (let alone theApr 17 06:34
schestowitz> GNU/Linux system).  They are only using it.Apr 17 06:34
schestowitz> Apr 17 06:34
schestowitz> If you publish an article with references for this -- and whichApr 17 06:34
schestowitz> focuses on just this point; it must not wander! -- then I would beApr 17 06:35
schestowitz> glad to post a link to it.Apr 17 06:35
schestowitzI wrote a very short article about it yesterday:Apr 17 06:35
schestowitzA Linux Foundation Run by People Who Reject Linux is Like a Children's Charity Whose Management Dislikes ChildrenApr 17 06:35
schestowitz 17 06:35
schestowitzI am planning to write another much longer article about this next week. Much longer.Apr 17 06:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | A Linux Foundation Run by People Who Reject Linux is Like a Children’s Charity Whose Management Dislikes Children | TechrightsApr 17 06:35
schestowitzcubexyz: thanks for the infoApr 17 06:35
schestowitzI thought it was work in progress as you tried it years ago, cubexyzApr 17 06:36
schestowitzMinceR: faked subs?Apr 17 06:37
schestowitzon some authentic show?Apr 17 06:37
MinceRdunnoApr 17 06:37
MinceRbut it seems likelyApr 17 06:37
schestowitzwhere do you find itApr 17 06:38
schestowitzassorted sources? reddit?Apr 17 06:38
MinceRircApr 17 06:39
schestowitzah, so even betterApr 17 06:47
schestowitzwe need to keep irc goingApr 17 06:47
schestowitzyesterday I read an article about irc's diminishing baseApr 17 06:47
schestowitzto be replaced by proprietary centralised crap like SLAAAACKApr 17 06:47
MinceRindeedApr 17 07:10
MinceR 17 07:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ )Apr 17 07:36
schestowitzda faq, that's some ineligible sign, but it's not EnglishApr 17 07:59
schestowitzlooks like magistrate Apr 17 08:00
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XRevan86> I suppose you know Alex Jones' videos were all taken down, inc. your interview.Apr 17 09:59
XRevan86schestowitz: I suppose I shouldn't be that surprised RMS did another RT interview :).Apr 17 10:00
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schestowitzhe did infowars, XRevan86Apr 17 10:17
schestowitznot good taste imgoApr 17 10:17
schestowitzimhoApr 17 10:17
schestowitzbut it was a good interview, not hostileApr 17 10:18
schestowitzJones was relatively respectfulApr 17 10:18
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MinceRi think that sign wants to say "Magister", as reflected by the tiny text at the bottomApr 17 11:35
MinceR 17 11:39
MinceR 17 12:18
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XRevan86kaniini: 17 13:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | NO TITLEApr 17 13:34
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MinceR:>Apr 17 13:36
XRevan86schestowitz: I guess RMS' philosophy is that the only thing that matters is to make his message heard.Apr 17 13:38
oiaohmXRevan86:  what series of Alex Jones stuff was taken down.Apr 17 13:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Alex Jones Show, September 2008 : Alex Jones, Infowars : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet ArchiveApr 17 13:41
oiaohmXRevan86: the fun of a lot people think is gone is not.Apr 17 13:42
MinceR 17 13:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Alex Jones DMT Electro House Remix - YouTubeApr 17 13:44
XRevan86oiaohm: I've found things that would've been lost forever there on numerous occasionsApr 17 13:47
XRevan86Meanwhile… 17 13:49
MinceRTIL and are "right-wing"Apr 17 13:50
MinceRalso, i wonder whose fault it is that VICE's old article versions can be used to discredit VICEApr 17 13:50
XRevan86MinceR: Hands are right-wing too (even left ones), as they are used for discrimination all the time.Apr 17 13:51
MinceRlolApr 17 13:51
oiaohmReally improve you editors boys.   Wonder how long until vice blocks google. 17 13:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Google Cached Pages of Any Website - CachedViewApr 17 13:54
oiaohmOf course that something they have not considered there is a hell load of caching out there.Apr 17 13:54
oiaohm   Hmm governments are now attempt to catch up with the internet.Apr 17 14:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Russia Orders Major VPN Providers to Block 'Banned' Sites - TorrentFreakApr 17 14:36
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MinceR>  This just in, the Police do not know what caused the fire in Notre Dame, but Quasimodo has a hunch.Apr 17 15:46
MinceR 17 15:51
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schestowitz[11:39] <MinceR> 17 17:05
schestowitzDouble yuckApr 17 17:06
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schestowitz 17 20:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@zoobab: @schestowitz I should do my own. Was using CoreOS, but with the Redhat merge, gentoo build system is no more.Apr 17 20:29
schestowitzthe "too many options" trollApr 17 20:29
schestowitz 17 20:29
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---Topic for #techrights is | Channel #techrights for :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovellApr 18 01:02
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schestowitzkaniini: viera is offline after netsplitApr 18 03:50
schestowitz> I looked atApr 18 04:30
schestowitz> 18 04:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Join OSI and Microsoft in the new ClearlyDefined projectApr 18 04:30
schestowitz> Apr 18 04:30
schestowitz> Of course, it has the moral shallowness of open source.Apr 18 04:30
schestowitz> But what, specifically, is bad about it?Apr 18 04:30
schestowitzNothing particularly bad about it. This is what the Microsoft person promotes at OSI.Apr 18 04:30
schestowitz> If my RT interview had a good effect this week, I'm content with it.Apr 18 04:31
schestowitz> Apr 18 04:31
schestowitz> Do you have a judgement about the interview itself?Apr 18 04:31
schestowitz> Do you think it had a good effect?Apr 18 04:31
schestowitzYes, I have shared it around thrice.Apr 18 04:31
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schestowitzkaniini: cheers, thank you sir :-)Apr 18 05:03
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schestowitzlolApr 18 08:11
schestowitzTechtights member:Apr 18 08:14
schestowitz"Apr 18 08:14
schestowitzCoC effects on LF and kernel work?Apr 18 08:14
schestowitzThere is also this, but I think few will be willing to do so much work and analysis for free.Apr 18 08:14
schestowitz 18 08:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Observed effects on Kernel code from Code of Conduct (CoC)Apr 18 08:14
schestowitzThough maybe it is easy to track with Gource or some similar tool and can be done in an hour or two.Apr 18 08:14
schestowitz"Apr 18 08:14
schestowitzCan anyone help with this? Any takers?Apr 18 08:14
schestowitz>> i'll mention it online later in case there are taker.Apr 18 08:15
schestowitz> Maybe best only in IRC.Apr 18 08:15
schestowitzwe might explore some of the intricate details behind Intel and others who use the CoC to wrest controlApr 18 08:15
schestowitz> In fact, maybe it is best not to publicize the actual link but simply toApr 18 08:16
schestowitz> quote or paraphrase the question in IRC.  LQ has been without SJW dramaApr 18 08:16
schestowitz> and it would be nice to keep it that way.Apr 18 08:16
schestowitzIRC is not seen by many. I post logs over Easter, 4 month's logs.Apr 18 08:16
schestowitz> Ok, maybe post the question or a paraphrase of it without mentioning LQApr 18 08:50
schestowitz> would be best.Apr 18 08:50
schestowitzToo late :-)Apr 18 08:50
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schestowitz“to impose faux politeness and political correctness is just a means of #censorship / increasing of influence - utilising “useful idiots” to get the job done.”Apr 18 11:09
schestowitz’re-still-lobbying-against-user-rights-open-source-4175652201/page2.html#post5985874Apr 18 11:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Microsoft may <3 Linux but they're still lobbying against user rights / open source - Page 2Apr 18 11:09
schestowitz"Apr 18 11:29
schestowitzThere is explicit expectation by LF sponsors.Apr 18 11:29
schestowitzIt's a mess. I have to run.  Apr 18 11:29
schestowitzBusy this week... catch up with more organized details this weekend.Apr 18 11:29
schestowitz"Apr 18 11:29
schestowitz"Apr 18 11:36
schestowitzYou reported on that Community Bridge about a week before Jono "advertised" it on his jonobacon site.Apr 18 11:36
schestowitzNotice he responded to Bradley M. Kuhn but never to me. haha.Apr 18 11:36
schestowitz"Apr 18 11:36
schestowitz"I'm not worth the great "leader's" time. He was on my twitter but then, when I started questioning his motivations, he immediately disconnected from my twitter. "Apr 18 11:37
schestowitz"Apr 18 11:40
schestowitz> My findings are all listed here, in a Web page that's only minutes old.Apr 18 11:40
schestowitz>Apr 18 11:40
schestowitz"Apr 18 11:40
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Concluding the Linux Foundation (LF) “Putting the CON in Conference!” (Part 3) []Apr 18 12:14
schestowitzRMS:Apr 18 12:16
schestowitz> I see reasons to consider the LF corrupt, but is it like a PAC?Apr 18 12:16
schestowitz> A PAC funnels funds to the support of political campaigns.Apr 18 12:16
schestowitz> Is the LF doing that?Apr 18 12:16
schestowitzWhen I came up with the name I was thinking of substitution for SuperPAC with the person who they portray as superman, and who uses this position -- and trademark -- to promote his political agenda too (as he does at LF events).Apr 18 12:16
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-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 18 22:13
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-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 18 22:31
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XRevan86 18 23:30
XRevan86cubexyz: Another amazing trope of Star Trek is exploding consoles.Apr 18 23:31
XRevan86The first time I see someone spelling it out in the series though :)Apr 18 23:31
kaniininow alpine switches to discord from IRCApr 18 23:50
XRevan86kaniini: One would think a distribution of free software would be more committed to… free software.Apr 18 23:54
XRevan86kaniini: As I understand, they'll use it only for text, right?Apr 18 23:56
XRevan86Meanwhile… 18 23:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | A Matrix chat server has been launched for Calculate Linux users - Planet CalculateApr 18 23:58
XRevan86A Gentoo-based distribution moved away from IRC… to Matrix with IRC and XMPP bridges.Apr 18 23:59
XRevan86kaniini: If Alpine has to move away from IRC, this is one route they could've taken.Apr 19 00:00
MinceR 19 00:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 19 00:15
oiaohmXRevan86:  Its not like exploding consoles is impossible.    But you have to ask the question what in heck is leaking into the console before the big bang.Apr 19 00:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Teen boy rushed to hospital after games console explodes in bedroom - Daily StarApr 19 00:51
XRevan86oiaohm: It's the frequency that gets meApr 19 00:52
XRevan86Even iPhone's don't explode that oftenApr 19 00:52
XRevan86Operation rooms are supposed to be the safest to be on in a starship, but because of all the deadly consoles, they are the most dangerous.Apr 19 00:54
oiaohmXRevan86: Really I wish I could remember the name of the video card.   There was a historic gpu that had a cemeric heat sink that surface got hot enough to give any tech careless enough to touch it third degree burns.Apr 19 01:01
oiaohmSo I have seen some quite dangerous things.Apr 19 01:02
MinceR"i have seen things you people wouldn't believe"Apr 19 01:02
XRevan86oiaohm: Starfleet must've found a way to replicate those.Apr 19 01:03
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oiaohmStar trek universe has horrible things like bio computers that in theory could process the worse form of magic smoke possible.   Ie methane and hydrogen .Apr 19 01:03
oiaohmMinceR:  I cam remember the material.  I just cannot remember the video card it was the first major production device to use it.  And fairly much the last time we have see a big version of it inside a computer case.Apr 19 01:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Micro Porous Ceramic Heat Sinks Enhance Heat Dissipation | Electronics CoolingApr 19 01:08
oiaohmThere is such thing as too heat conductive who would think it.Apr 19 01:08
XRevan86oiaohm: The question is not whether they could pull it offApr 19 01:12
XRevan86but whether they should'veApr 19 01:12
oiaohmFact we have seen a video card with a heat sink surface temp of the silicon and due to its high conductivity of heat cause third degree burns before being forbiden from sale in standard cases.  If the Star Fleet regulation is crap it could happen that way.Apr 19 01:15
oiaohmThe other is with all the automated assisting the star trek ships seam to have with their bio computers and other things to perform the task they could be treating it the same way we treat lithium ion batteries in phones and the like.Apr 19 01:16
XRevan86oiaohm: Considering how routine these accidents are for Starfleet, the regulation must be that it's forbidden not to have explosive qualities.Apr 19 01:17
oiaohmWhen you get the star trek time like console explosions you are talking years apart in real time.Apr 19 01:17
XRevan86oiaohm: The closest thing to a Li-ion battery in there is the Warp coreApr 19 01:17
oiaohmThe bio pack computers are the closest thing to li-ion battery in startrek.Apr 19 01:18
oiaohm   Apr 19 01:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Biocomputer | Memory Alpha | FANDOM powered by WikiaApr 19 01:19
XRevan86oiaohm: TNG doesn't have thoseApr 19 01:19
oiaohmYes data storage and computer processing of possible not the most stable kind.Apr 19 01:19
oiaohmRemember those were meant to be upgrades over the prior.Apr 19 01:19
oiaohmSo how scary bad was the prior.Apr 19 01:20
oiaohmBy the exploding consoles I would say quite bad.Apr 19 01:20
XRevan86ST:V has "bio-neural gel packs", but explosive consoles were all over original ST:TNG and ST:DS9 tooApr 19 01:20
oiaohmThe star trek cannon does not mention exactly what the prior computers were.Apr 19 01:21
oiaohmJust the bio-neural gel was improvement.Apr 19 01:21
XRevan86oiaohm: That bio-neutral stuff doesn't seem all that great from the sciency side.Apr 19 01:22
XRevan86so likely not quantum computersApr 19 01:23
oiaohmAlso you have to consider that in star trek you have insanely advanced medical so up to second degree burns is minor quick treatable thing.Apr 19 01:23
XRevan86oiaohm: But consoles are still deadlyApr 19 01:24
XRevan86even if medical wonders reduce the death toll considerablyApr 19 01:25
oiaohmSo fire suppressing systems that would be forbid could be allowed in star trek.     Like using explosives.Apr 19 01:25
XRevan86Meanwhile, consoles are supposed to just be consoles, a Raspberry Pie could do the job they do.Apr 19 01:25
XRevan86with a TNT taped onApr 19 01:26
oiaohmYou have to remember we have shipped ammonium nitrate in car airbags and only recalled that after enough people were killed.Apr 19 01:26
XRevan86s/a //Apr 19 01:27
oiaohmSo humans have a history of miss using explosives.Apr 19 01:27
oiaohmOr using the wrong types.Apr 19 01:27
oiaohmBasically the console exploding in star trek is just normal human stupidity take to is expected form.   Improved medical resulting in lower health and safety.   Add in some miss use of explosive materials you have star trek. Apr 19 01:28
XRevan86Star Trek: the Federation is terrible, but somehow the best.Apr 19 01:29
oiaohmDo note the bridge in star trek in a lot of cases does not have enough seats or seat belts.   You see them thrown around a bridge far more often than consoles exploding.Apr 19 01:29
oiaohmSo Star Trek work place health and safety is about as good as a bad third world country.Apr 19 01:30
oiaohmand massively depending on the medical to keep the fatalities down.Apr 19 01:31
XRevan86Star Trek: the Federation forbids genetic engineering of human brains, yet where are super-Romulans, super-Cardassians?Apr 19 01:31
XRevan86Or are humans the only species that can be vastly genetically improved? Or have they all forbidded it despite the obvious military advantages?Apr 19 01:32
oiaohmThat is covered in particular episode in early Star Trek.   There were genetic engineered humans they were as insane as the Romulans, Carassians and the Vulkans.Apr 19 01:32
XRevan86* forbiddenApr 19 01:33
oiaohmAfter all the mental illness issue caused by being more intelligent resulting in superiority complexes star trek forbid it.  Apr 19 01:33
oiaohmin the federation.Apr 19 01:34
oiaohmAnd most races in the star trek universe have run into the same problem.Apr 19 01:34
XRevan86oiaohm: Turns out, mad scientists are a real issue.Apr 19 01:34
oiaohmXRevan86: yep.Apr 19 01:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Klingon augment virus | Memory Alpha | FANDOM powered by WikiaApr 19 01:36
oiaohmXRevan86: there are multi cases where different groups attempt to improve there race.   Either they almost kill them selfs out or end up with insane people to deal with.Apr 19 01:37
XRevan86oiaohm: So that's why…Apr 19 01:37
XRevan86oiaohm: I've been wondering about the looks of KlingonsApr 19 01:37
oiaohmThat did alter the IQ profile of the Klingons as well .Apr 19 01:39
oiaohmThere are many examples in star trek of genetic engineered other races.   Most cases it like the Klingon or worse.   Some of the human ones are horrible like improving human immune system to be proactive and it results in modify all normal humans near them to age rapidly and die.Apr 19 01:40
oiaohmstar trek is very anti DNA modification unless you want to risk exterminating your race by the fall out from either the bio side effects or that the enhanced are insane and attempt to kill you. Apr 19 01:42
oiaohmIf you go throw the cannon carefully you will find notes from different Romulans/vulkans that they tried it as well it created the divide between those two races.    Carassians I have no notes on.Apr 19 01:43
oiaohmSo genetic engineering failing is very common in the star trek universe.Apr 19 01:44
XRevan86> Gene Roddenberry himself reportedly believed any "explanation" was unnecessary; the makeup seen in the films and the later series would have been too expensive during the 1960s. Roddenberry felt it was best to simply imagine that Klingons always had ridges (although this preference was officially contradicted by canon when the change was noted by the DS9 crew in "Trials and Tribble-ations").Apr 19 01:45
*XRevan86 did exactly that, thought that the new make-up is retroactive, but then I saw "Trials and Tribble-ations".Apr 19 01:45
oiaohmcanon does kind of answer why you don't see super that often.   Really a Vulkan is a super Romulan.Apr 19 01:47
oiaohmOne of the rare cases it kind of worked.Apr 19 01:48
oiaohmI would not call a Vulkan 100 percent success.Apr 19 01:48
XRevan86> Really a Vulkan is a super Romulan.Apr 19 01:48
XRevan86o_OApr 19 01:48
XRevan86I understood it has them having cultural differences.Apr 19 01:49
oiaohmThey are the same race.  One enhanced and one rejected enchancing.Apr 19 01:49
oiaohmLosing emotions for enhancement is something the romulans would not tolerate.Apr 19 01:50
XRevan86oiaohm: By the way the series paints them both it's the Romulans who are the foolish ones.Apr 19 01:50
XRevan86oiaohm: And also that Vulcans don't not have emotions, but rather control them.Apr 19 01:51
oiaohmVulcans cannot freely express emotions or risk being a danger to everyone.   Due to being so OP.Apr 19 01:52
XRevan86Sarek in TNG had a condition that made him lose control.Apr 19 01:52
oiaohmYes the Romulans are painted as foolish because they are lower IQ and also physically weaker.Apr 19 01:52
oiaohmAgain that is because Vulkan enhancement is not perfect.Apr 19 01:53
oiaohmAnd comes with horrible side effects.Apr 19 01:53
oiaohmExamples of enhancement in startrek don't paint perfectly outcomes.Apr 19 01:54
*XRevan86 wonders if he's unaware, because TNG and spin-offs tried to brush it under the rug.Apr 19 01:54
oiaohmThere are very few eposides that cover how Vulkan and romulans are related.Apr 19 01:55
oiaohmThat they other thing about startrek there seams to be a culture thing not to talk about enhancement as well due to it being forbid.Apr 19 01:55
oiaohmUnless it absolutely required.Apr 19 01:56
oiaohmIf it was covered more people would be aware that enhancement is a common thing to be attempt by all races in startrek that lead to different levels of fail.Apr 19 01:57
oiaohmSometimes completely nuking their race out of existence and leaving behind illness that keeps on showing up.Apr 19 01:57
XRevan86> The Vulcans eventually became Earth's "big brothers" in a way, advising Earth officials on how to proceed into the galaxy.Apr 19 02:02
XRevan86Oh, like Minbari…Apr 19 02:02
oiaohmYes and of course that also explains why romulans fear the federationApr 19 02:04
oiaohmbeing seen as lapdogs to the Vulcans so have to be the romulans enemy.Apr 19 02:05
XRevan86oiaohm: In TNG and DS9 it amused me that Vulcans are barely even a thingApr 19 02:05
XRevan86but Romulans are important, as allies or adversariesApr 19 02:06
oiaohmExactly if you are the puppet master as the vulcans are why would you put your own people in harms way.Apr 19 02:06
oiaohmRemember spock was half human half vulkan that why you saw him.   Most of the time vulkans really stay as in the  bureaucracy even in the first series as it the logical  place to be don't risk your hide when you can risk someone elses .Apr 19 02:08
XRevan86oiaohm: There were… a few Vulcans here and thereApr 19 02:09
oiaohmIf you look closely most of them are some form of government bureaucracy Apr 19 02:10
oiaohmSo puppet masters keeping in the backgroundApr 19 02:10
XRevan86oiaohm: And ST:V got a Vulcan in a spot lightApr 19 02:10
XRevan86On a starshipApr 19 02:10
XRevan86It also showed that Vulcans come in all shapes and sizes American society can provide %).Apr 19 02:11
oiaohmHis back story is he heed starship time to get a particular government position.Apr 19 02:11
oiaohmSo vulcans not like the front lines.Apr 19 02:12
oiaohmRomulans, Humans, Klingon races will be on the front lines. Apr 19 02:12
XRevan86oiaohm: Carsassians, Been, Jem'HadarApr 19 02:14
XRevan86Breen*Apr 19 02:14
XRevan86Cardassians*Apr 19 02:14
XRevan86(a typo combo)Apr 19 02:15
oiaohmCardassian not so much they have slave class so they attempt to keep their forces out the front lines.Apr 19 02:16
oiaohmJem'Hadar is another super race .Apr 19 02:16
XRevan86oiaohm: Do they? In DS9 all they do is stick their necks out.Apr 19 02:17
oiaohmIf you listen carefully those sticking their neck out in DS9 will loss their citizenship if they don't.Apr 19 02:18
oiaohmThey are slave class not the pure Carassian.Apr 19 02:18
oiaohmWe are not seen the pure Carassian in Startrek.Apr 19 02:18
oiaohmare/haveApr 19 02:19
XRevan86oiaohm: Um, I am pretty sure that's not how it is.Apr 19 02:20
XRevan86The political system of Cardassia has been explored in depth in TNG and DS9Apr 19 02:20
oiaohmIts a mess.Apr 19 02:20
XRevan86It has the same people on the front lines and in their offices.Apr 19 02:21
XRevan86As Guls and LegatesApr 19 02:21
oiaohmYou are right.  I was forgoting who was the true master.Apr 19 02:22
oiaohmChangeling made the Dominion and all the races that make up the dominion were made to serve them.Apr 19 02:22
oiaohmCarassians are techically another of the slave races of the Dominion.Apr 19 02:23
XRevan86oiaohm: Cardassians were a temporary member of the DominionApr 19 02:23
XRevan86Dukat signed a treaty with the Dominion somewhere in season 5Apr 19 02:24
XRevan86oiaohm: Cardassians weren't made by the changelings (the Founders)Apr 19 02:25
XRevan86oiaohm: In fact, in the original TNG Cardassians are strictly pre-DominionApr 19 02:25
oiaohmHmm need to go though that sections some time.Apr 19 02:26
oiaohmSeems my memory has got mixed up on some of it.Apr 19 02:26
XRevan86oiaohm: You seem to take it seriously though (:Apr 19 02:28
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XRevan86Before going to sleep I'll only say: do holograms dream of holosheep?Apr 19 02:33
oiaohmXRevan86: normally with me if one section of memory is mess up another section will be as well.Apr 19 02:35
oiaohmXRevan86: hopefully not something important.Apr 19 02:35
XRevan86oiaohm: cascade system failure, all decks abandon shipApr 19 02:35
cubexyzschestowitz, plan9 ran very stable on p3 era hardwareApr 19 03:35
cubexyzunfortunately the web browser abaco was quite primitiveApr 19 03:36
cubexyzthe way text scrolled in the terminal was also a bit oddApr 19 03:36
cubexyzthe window manager was non intuitive, but it was useableApr 19 03:38
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schestowitzRichard Stallman wrote on 18/04/2019 16:51:> I looked at 19 05:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | LKML: Linus Torvalds: Re: [GIT PULL] Load keys from signed PE binariesApr 19 05:47
schestowitz> and I don't understand it.  What is a "PE binary"?Apr 19 05:47
schestowitz> What is the signing issue?Apr 19 05:47
schestowitzIt's about UEFI 'secure boot'. Apr 19 05:47
schestowitz> Meanwhile, you sent it as an example about the code of conduct.Apr 19 05:47
schestowitz> What part of this text do you think might be prohibited byApr 19 05:47
schestowitz> the code of conduct?Apr 19 05:47
schestowitzTwo "sexualised language" parts: "deep-throat Microsoft" and "dick-sucking contest."Apr 19 05:47
schestowitz>   > Nothing particularly bad about it. This is what the Microsoft personApr 19 05:54
schestowitz>   > promotes at OSI.Apr 19 05:54
schestowitz> Apr 19 05:54
schestowitz> It seems like just the sort of thing I'd expect the OSI to do.Apr 19 05:54
schestowitz> My only criticism of it is that it promotes open source ;-{.Apr 19 05:54
schestowitzYes, albeit Simon Phipps has been talking a lot more about freedom lately. He's the OSI's chief.Apr 19 05:54
schestowitz> I'm glad you think I did an effective job on RT.Apr 19 05:55
oiaohmThat level of language is not what Linus got into trouble for.Apr 19 06:03
oiaohmschestowitz: the hated bit here is some quite nasty language.Apr 19 06:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trying to get STACKLEAK into the kernel []Apr 19 06:05
schestowitz"He went on to explain what he meant by "burned by Linus" in his talk and on his slides. There is strong language in some of Torvalds's replies, "even swearing, which I don't quote" mixed with the technical objections. So people need to put their emotions aside and try to extract the actual complaints from these kinds of messages. Torvalds will also NAK patches without even looking at them, which is difficult to handle, Popov said. It makes Apr 19 07:03
schestowitzhim wonder if Torvalds is by default irritated by the kernel hardening initiatives."Apr 19 07:03
schestowitzMaybe rude only in the professional senseApr 19 07:04
schestowitzbut nothing sexist or whatever about itApr 19 07:04
schestowitzmaybe he doesn'y trust big piles of code from people he hardly knowsApr 19 07:04
schestowitzand as he refuses to quote the "swearing" we don't quite know what it isApr 19 07:05
schestowitzcould be "stay the fuck out of my mailbox"Apr 19 07:05
schestowitzwhich he did beforeApr 19 07:05
schestowitz"There is also new functionality that has been added to the original feature. Trampoline stack support has been added for x86_64, for example. He and Andersen put together some "nice tests" to go with the feature. Laura Abbott added support for arm64 and worked with him on GCC 8 support for the plugin. Two features that were requested by Ingo Molnar have been added: the metrics feature that tracks stack usage in system calls to help Apr 19 07:06
schestowitzperformance evaluations and a way to disable STACKLEAK at runtime, which Popov said he was opposed to, but Molnar insisted on. The runtime disable is only available if it is configured into the kernel, which it is not by default; that was the compromise that he and Molnar found, Popov said."Apr 19 07:06
schestowitzSome of these are with red hat, i.e. ibmApr 19 07:06
schestowitzwho is he with? I don't know this firm? where are they from? their business model?Apr 19 07:07
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schestowitzsome just stick in some code into linux so they can tell support for their snakeoilApr 19 07:07
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schestowitz"There is also new functionality that has been added to the original feature. Trampoline stack support has been added for x86_64, for example. He and Andersen put together some "nice tests" to go with the feature. Laura Abbott added support for arm64 and worked with him on GCC 8 support for the plugin. Two features that were requested by Ingo Molnar have been added: the metrics feature that tracks stack usage in system calls to help Apr 19 07:07
schestowitzperformance evaluations and a way to disable STACKLEAK at runtime, which Popov said he was opposed to, but Molnar insisted on. The runtime disable is only available if it is configured into the kernel, which it is not by default; that was the compromise that he and Molnar found, Popov said."Apr 19 07:07
schestowitzoiaohm: very bad sign when they write it in assemblyApr 19 07:08
schestowitzI recall some back doors being done that wayApr 19 07:08
schestowitzand rejected for thatApr 19 07:08
schestowitzI am trying to recall the assembler story from about 15 years agoApr 19 07:08
schestowitzI used to quote that a lot around 2005Apr 19 07:08
schestowitzsome dodgy stuff in assemblyApr 19 07:08
schestowitzmaybe it was sellinux (NSA)Apr 19 07:09
schestowitzafter grsecurity went around slapping pernes for criticism who would ever trust Brad and chums?Apr 19 07:09
schestowitzI wrote to Torvalds some months ago about Google putting NSA stuff in the kernelApr 19 07:09
schestowitzA short while later it was removedApr 19 07:10
schestowitzGoogle and other GAFAM/PRISM actors cannot be trustedApr 19 07:10
schestowitz 19 07:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Linus Torvalds Was Approached By the NSA For Backdoor in LinuxApr 19 07:11
oiaohmschestowitz: part way though the stackleak debate linus lets fly at Popov for doing something that had been decided at a confence not to be done any more that was not put into the documentation.Apr 19 07:17
oiaohmschestowitz: basically there was no way Popov could have known he should not have coded it that way.Apr 19 07:17
oiaohmSo Linus bad language was not helping the technical arguement in the stackleak case.  Apr 19 07:18
oiaohmThe other thing is once a backdoor is added gets known to the public it normally made disappear.Apr 19 07:19
schestowitzmaybe when it's too lateApr 19 07:28
schestowitzi.e. when some linux releases may already have itApr 19 07:28
schestowitzor suspicion of itApr 19 07:28
schestowitzBTW, what kind of stupid name of stackleakApr 19 07:28
schestowitzsounds like a bug, not a featureApr 19 07:28
schestowitz[correction], what kind of stupid name is stackleakApr 19 07:29
oiaohmgrsecurity named it as it in detects stack leaks.Apr 19 07:32
oiaohmYes it is a fairly stupid name.Apr 19 07:32
schestowitzwait...Apr 19 07:32
schestowitzit's the same thing?Apr 19 07:32
schestowitzso it's actually grsecruity?Apr 19 07:33
oiaohmBased off pax stackleak was the stackleak  Popov was working on.Apr 19 07:33
schestowitzif I look at google, stackleak first result is this LWN articlesApr 19 07:33
schestowitza lot of the rest in RussianApr 19 07:33
schestowitzptsecurityApr 19 07:34
schestowitz 19 07:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Positive Technologies - learn and secure : How STACKLEAK improves Linux kernel securityApr 19 07:34
schestowitzsounds almost like grsecurityApr 19 07:34
schestowitz 19 07:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Positive Technologies - learn and secure : MicrosoftApr 19 07:34
schestowitzthey work on Microsoft crap alsoApr 19 07:34
schestowitzMicrosoft works with NSA on back door accessApr 19 07:35
schestowitz 19 07:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Positive Technologies - learn and secure : A Backdoor in the Next Generation Active DirectoryApr 19 07:35
schestowitz 19 07:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Positive Technologies - learn and secure : Backdoor in Active DirectoryApr 19 07:35
schestowitz 19 07:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Positive Technologies - learn and secure : Password analysis for Windows Live Hotmail usersApr 19 07:35
oiaohmFairly active group and when grsecuity pulled up sticks and they were not going to have the stuff to secure they own server they started on working on mainlining the best features of grsecurity even where it required some fairly deep rewrites.Apr 19 07:36
oiaohmschestowitz: stackleak sounds like grsecurity because it based off grsecurity work just reworked to its mainlineable.Apr 19 07:37
schestowitzso this is basically grsecurity crap with gpl traps reincarnatedApr 19 07:37
schestowitzor reusedApr 19 07:37
schestowitzno wonder Torvalds hates itApr 19 07:37
oiaohmTorvalds did not hate it that much over all.Apr 19 07:37
schestowitzit won't help that the attitude of gr led to SLAPP, which they lostApr 19 07:38
schestowitzat great expense to PerensApr 19 07:38
oiaohmThere were less than 10 places they faild to fix up before it got to Torvalds.Apr 19 07:38
oiaohmBiggest thing that make Linus loss it was leaving In I think bugon its the feature that causes the kernel to completely stop in case of detected fault.Apr 19 07:39
oiaohmSomething that had been put up at the last plumbers conference as not to be done any more but had not made it back into documentation.Apr 19 07:39
schestowitzyes, I remember that. oiaohmApr 19 07:48
oiaohm  Really Popov and others are working around this.Apr 19 07:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Kernel Self Protection Project - Linux Kernel Security SubsystemApr 19 07:48
oiaohmReally it been way over due for most of these features to end up mainline.Apr 19 07:49
oiaohmLinus has pushed for a lot of them to be turned on by default.Apr 19 07:51
oiaohmI would not say Linus hates the ideas of grsecurity he has issues with how some was implemented.   Bad language really did not help those fixing up those patches.Apr 19 07:52
schestowitzwell, sometimes it doesn't harmApr 19 08:01
schestowitzdepending what's meant by strongApr 19 08:01
schestowitzI rarely curse, but sometimes I doApr 19 08:01
schestowitzand if they keep wasting his time, he's right to get angryApr 19 08:01
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Apr 19 09:16
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: This is how System76 does open hardware []Apr 19 09:20
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #LabPlot 2.6 released []Apr 19 09:21
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Apr 19 09:28
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Introducing Mozilla WebThings []Apr 19 09:39
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Android Browser Choice Screen in Europe []Apr 19 09:45
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open infrastructure, developer desktop and IoT are the focus for Ubuntu 19.04 []Apr 19 09:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Danger Gazers, Sid Meier's Civilization VI and Steam []Apr 19 10:01
oiaohmschestowitz: there is the difference between the right to get angry and failing to clear on the point why you are angry.Apr 19 10:02
oiaohmschestowitz: curse words can in fact get in the way.Apr 19 10:03
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Python Programming Leftovers []Apr 19 10:11
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 9 Essential Linux Classroom Tools #gnu #linux []Apr 19 10:27
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora: Fedora Program Management, New PHP RCs and Thoughts on DBUS #fedora #redhat #ibm #gnu #linux []Apr 19 10:34
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MinceR:>Apr 19 14:05
MinceR 19 15:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 19 15:16
schestowitzoiaohm: I agreeApr 19 17:54
schestowitzI don't condone what he says, never didApr 19 17:54
schestowitzIn fact, I often pointed out how rude he was and what would happen if RMS was the sameApr 19 17:55
MinceRi don't trust the gr"security" people, they promote snake oil like TPM and Restricted BootApr 19 17:59
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Apr 19 18:02
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 4 of the Best Web Browsers for Linux []Apr 19 18:05
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: New GNU/Linux Screencasts: Manjaro KDE, Feren OS 19.04 and Manjaro GNOME []Apr 19 18:08
schestowitzMinceR: yes, exactlyApr 19 18:20
schestowitzcomply or dueApr 19 18:20
schestowitz*dieApr 19 18:20
schestowitzlike uefi without a jumper/switchApr 19 18:20
schestowitzyou can also say drmApr 19 18:21
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Admin/Programming: GStreamer, Django, OpenJDK and Ansible #programming []Apr 19 18:34
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian: Dirk Eddelbuettel's Code, Molly de Blanc Becomes Debian Developer, Iustin Pop on Debian DPL Election and Debian Bug Squashing Party []Apr 19 18:39
MinceR 19 18:59
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-It's better with Javascript | CommitStripApr 19 18:59
XRevan86MinceR: That's the one, yes.Apr 19 19:00
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kipi Plugins 5.9.1 Released []Apr 19 19:05
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Apr 19 19:07
MinceR   ( )Apr 19 19:23
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Meanwhile at the Discocat... - Album on ImgurApr 19 19:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: BSD: FreeBSD Development News and BSD Now 294 []Apr 19 19:39
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: WWW: Indie Web Server, Administrating Nextcloud and Project Spotlight on Drupal []Apr 19 19:43
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Qt 6 Might Drop Their Short-Lived Universal Windows Platform Support []Apr 19 19:58
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MinceR 19 20:23
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: COBOL, C, C++ all due for updates in early 2020s []Apr 19 20:59
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software: LibreOffice, X-Gimp, COPR and Tauon Music Box []Apr 19 21:16
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers []Apr 19 21:25
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 19/4/2019: PyPy 7.1.1, LabPlot 2.6, Kipi Plugins 5.9.1 Released []Apr 19 21:29
MinceR 19 21:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 19 21:39
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XRevan86MinceR: mother birdApr 19 21:39
MinceR:>Apr 19 21:41
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: From a Facebook post:Apr 19 23:04
DaemonFC[m]"Even with MP3, you aren't guaranteed compatibility with anything no matter how you encode them because name a standards violation and there's a stereo, software player, or car audio system out there that violates it.Apr 19 23:04
DaemonFC[m]With car systems, some Fords up to at least 2008 cannot decode a VBR MP3 if any of the frames are under 128 kbps. I had to help someone get around this bug in their Ford car by specifying that LAME could not create any frames lower than 128 kbps. The encoder will attempt to make the best of this situation by shifting bit reservoir usage to compensate, but it isn't ideal."Apr 19 23:04
DaemonFC[m]"With software players, Microsoft released a broken MP3 decoder with Windows XP that interpreted the standard wrong, rendering some valid files unplayable, and LAME had to implement a workaround that is in there to this day.Apr 19 23:05
DaemonFC[m]With stereo systems, some can't even handle VBR at all even though it's mandatory in Layer 3, but these are mostly older models."Apr 19 23:05
DaemonFC[m]"The reason LAME has so many command line arguments is an outgrowth of the fact that the MP3 spec is murky enough even before people make decoders that are just flat out wrong.... :)"Apr 19 23:07
DaemonFC[m]"Going way back into the 90s for a moment, when Winamp was a popular music player, they implemented a decoder called Nitrane that introduced unstable pure tones that didn't even exist in the file, and ended up fixing the problem when they just licensed the decoder from FhG."Apr 19 23:09
MinceR 19 23:26
DaemonFC[m]There was a commercial advertising a song lyrics app that said "If you think Elton John is saying 'Hold me closer, Tony Danza." you needed their app.Apr 19 23:29
DaemonFC[m]That's fair enough. But if you think Eric Clapton is asking to be your four legged man, you need FLAC, and perhaps an earwax removal kit.Apr 19 23:29
MinceR 19 23:52
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 10+ Open Source Software Writing Tools That Every Writer Should Know []Apr 20 03:59
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Lutris and More []Apr 20 04:03
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Apr 20 04:11
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: AMDGPU and X.Org Elections []Apr 20 04:14
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: imapautofiler, Red Hat Decision Manager, AiC, Python-moa, WebAssembly/Python []Apr 20 04:19
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oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: That mp3 VBR stuff and some items not handling it was a patent.   Yes having to pay for a patent to include that feature.Apr 20 05:21
DaemonFC[m]Wasn't there a patent pool where you got all the MP3 patents?Apr 20 05:21
oiaohmNo there were 3 mp3 patent pools depending on the pool you owned to what features you could implement at not charge.Apr 20 05:23
oiaohmMp3 was a true ugly patent mess until most of the the patents expired.   There are some features of mp3 that are not implemented because they are still patented.Apr 20 05:24
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]:  It can be fun trying to play these files properly today.   As the patent on this dies in 2025.Apr 20 05:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | MP3 Surround - WikipediaApr 20 05:31
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights []Apr 20 12:27
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MinceR   ( )Apr 20 14:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-AK-47 muzzle blast deflecting rain looks cool af - Album on ImgurApr 20 14:02
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XRevan86MinceR: So?Apr 20 14:17
MinceRlooks niceApr 20 14:18
XRevan86 20 14:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal - SoulApr 20 14:38
schestowitzMinceR: weird effectApr 20 14:39
schestowitzbut gun fetishApr 20 14:39
MinceRdoes appreciating the effect imply having a gun fetish?Apr 20 15:09
schestowitzcan be misinterpreted as thatApr 20 15:38
MinceR 20 16:31
MinceR 20 16:50
MinceR   ( )Apr 20 17:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Always stay flexible. Stretch a bit. - Album on ImgurApr 20 17:54
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Stable kernels 5.0.9, 4.19.36, 4.14.113 and 4.9.170 []Apr 20 18:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kernel: Linux 5.1 and Linux 5.2 []Apr 20 18:20
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Apr 20 18:24
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers []Apr 20 18:30
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Apr 20 18:37
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: New Features Coming to Debian 10 Buster Release []Apr 20 18:45
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #PopOS 19.04 is here! []Apr 20 18:50
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: NVIDIA on LInux []Apr 20 19:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Jonathan Carter: Debian project leader elections 2019 []Apr 20 19:24
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The PinePhone Linux Smartphone Dev Kit Can Run Wayland's Weston []Apr 20 19:28
DaemonFC[m]MP3 Surround doesn't seem so important.Apr 20 19:33
DaemonFC[m]In MPEG 1, MPEG Audio Layers can't even do surround. In MPEG 2, only Layer 3 can.Apr 20 19:33
MinceR   ( )Apr 20 19:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-I love Japan - Album on ImgurApr 20 19:35
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software: Librarians, Weblate, DocBook and Firefox []Apr 20 19:52
MinceR   ( )Apr 20 19:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-To stay awake - Album on ImgurApr 20 19:55
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Video/Audio: Battlefield Bad Company 2, Friday Stream and Greybeard's Worst Nightmare []Apr 20 19:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OSS Leftovers []Apr 20 19:59
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers []Apr 20 19:59
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 20/4/2019: Weblate 3.6 and Pop!_OS 19.04 []Apr 20 20:10
MinceR 20 21:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 20 21:01
MinceR 20 21:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Why Videogame Heroes Should NEVER Save The Princess (Pixel Pete) - YouTubeApr 20 21:22
MinceR 20 21:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 20 21:46
MinceR   ( )Apr 20 22:35
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MinceR 20 22:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 20 22:53
XRevan86MinceR: -18. *They* want to hide the truth from usApr 20 22:54
XRevan86wake up, sheepleApr 20 22:55
MinceR:>Apr 20 22:55
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-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 21 00:39
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sebsebseb Apr 21 04:01
sebsebsebMinceR: AppleApr 21 04:01
schestowitzsebsebseb: seb!Apr 21 04:21
sebsebsebschestowitz: your awake hmmApr 21 05:24
sebsebsebschestowitz: Manchester in October !Apr 21 05:27
schestowitzwhat happens then?Apr 21 05:31
sebsebsebschestowitz: OGG CampApr 21 05:32
sebsebsebManchester this yearApr 21 05:32
sebsebsebschestowitz: you still live in Manchester ?Apr 21 05:32
sebsebsebhow come your on this earlyApr 21 05:32
sebsebsebup early or on late ?Apr 21 05:33
schestowitzwent to sleep earlyApr 21 05:47
sebsebsebschestowitz: ah rightApr 21 05:57
sebsebsebschestowitz: I have notApr 21 05:57
sebsebsebschestowitz: uh now hitting me a bit, that I been awake since some time yesterday afternoonApr 21 05:57
sebsebsebbut it's nearly 6am, so the nera by shop should be openign up again soon Apr 21 05:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: anwyay you should if I ever go to Manchester, to come visit you, well this year could be it then !Apr 21 05:58
sebsebsebyou saidApr 21 05:58
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The NULL TTY Driver Is Coming To The Linux 5.2 Kernel []Apr 21 05:59
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #SuperTuxKart 1.0 Release #games #gnu #linux []Apr 21 06:03
DaemonFC[m]Someone ripped the original Stop Making Sense soundtrack off the Blu Ray disc over toslink.Apr 21 06:20
DaemonFC[m]They got the whole album and it's the original mixes. This never got released to any CD like this.Apr 21 06:20
DaemonFC[m]Okay, I need to put this on my phone.Apr 21 06:21
DaemonFC[m]They even put Big Business and I Zimbra back in at the end.Apr 21 06:21
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: FOSS in #Blockchain []Apr 21 09:14
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: Iran, Google, GrammaTech, FireEye and Latest FUD From WhiteSource []Apr 21 09:20
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Python, Pyodide, GitLab, Google’s MorphNet, OpenJDK, JITLink and Microsoft Spyware []Apr 21 09:24
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schestowitzGource LFApr 21 10:01
schestowitz> Hi, Roy,Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> Linux is a huge kernel, really enormous, and the amount of work beingApr 21 10:02
schestowitz> done is mind boggling.  Gource provides way too much information andApr 21 10:02
schestowitz> visual analysis won't provide much.  Nor will any other kind of manualApr 21 10:02
schestowitz> analysis.  But here's how it's done:Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> git cloneApr 21 10:02
schestowitz> git://;Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> cd linux-stable;Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> $(gource --log-command git) > ../linux-project.logApr 21 10:02
schestowitz> Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> gource --start-date 2017-09-01 --time-scale 4 \Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> --fullscreen ../linux-project.logApr 21 10:02
schestowitz> Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> It takes a long time to build up to autumn 2018 even at high speed.Apr 21 10:02
schestowitz> Maybe that will give someone some ideas on what kind of analysis can beApr 21 10:02
schestowitz> done easily to identify what kind of damage, if any, is visible from theApr 21 10:02
schestowitz> CoC.Apr 21 10:02
schestowitzI saw some analyses to that effect, but they mostly focus on language rather than what lack of speech (resistance) enables to sneak in. In the form of code.Apr 21 10:02
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software: Chats, LogRunners, Containers and Chrome 74 []Apr 21 10:34
oiaohmschestowitz: part of the problem is a lot of the changes about language in submitted code with lower tollerence to swear words and the like goes back before the code of conflit(yes the one before the code of conduct).Apr 21 11:16
oiaohmThe code of conduct changes have been more about the mailing list.   Thinking that 90%+ of Linux kernel developers are paid to work on the Linux kernel they are not going to change what they are doing no matter how extreme the rules are.Apr 21 11:17
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Goodbye Joe #erlang #programming []Apr 21 11:39
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MinceR 21 12:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The NULL TTY Driver Is Coming To The Linux 5.2 Kernel | Tux MachinesApr 21 12:09
MinceRi see depending on cancerd for console is coming :>Apr 21 12:09
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #UK grant for open source healthcare []Apr 21 12:12
schestowitz"Apr 21 12:21
schestowitzhere you go:Apr 21 12:21
schestowitznew directions for techrights (6 pages, pdf and odt)Apr 21 12:21
schestowitzthe links are highly recommended if/when you have time. they are all related to the present state of things. i mean, not the video of the parrot singing or the kid dancing, but the others should be relevant. those two were for fun.Apr 21 12:21
schestowitzExcellent. If you can change to upper/lowercase and add hyperlinks as HTML, then we can publish this as a guest post. Would that be possible?Apr 21 12:21
schestowitz"Apr 21 12:21
schestowitzoutcome:Apr 21 12:21
schestowitzDr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊) - 2 minutes ago Apr 21 12:21
schestowitzA Reader’s Suggestion: Directions for #Techrights 21 12:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | A Reader’s Suggestion: Directions for Techrights | TechrightsApr 21 12:21
schestowitzMinceR: can you elaborate on the connection?Apr 21 12:21
schestowitznull tty I meanApr 21 12:21
schestowitzmaybe something we can and should write aboutApr 21 12:22
MinceRlooks like its purpose is so that they can remove the usable console driver(s) from the kernelApr 21 12:22
MinceRthen again, i could be wrong and this could be a different consoleApr 21 12:22
MinceR 21 12:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 21 12:24
schestowitzMinceR: if you can research this further, that would be awesome and something to report onApr 21 12:34
MinceR 21 13:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | the future is nowApr 21 13:26
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Google's Openwashing and Use of FOSS []Apr 21 13:31
MinceR   ( )Apr 21 13:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Learning how to catch a toy. - Album on ImgurApr 21 13:38
oiaohmMinceR: what talking about the add of ttynull?Apr 21 13:49
oiaohmMinceR: that in fact fixes a history sysvinit script screw up on systems without a console.Apr 21 13:49
oiaohmMind you it took some time the first debate I saw for a null tty was 1995.Apr 21 13:51
schestowitzMinceR: hahaApr 21 13:52
schestowitzoiaohm: what do you make of itApr 21 13:52
schestowitzwill it make systemd a dependency for some shells?Apr 21 13:52
oiaohmIts in fact a fix for sysvinit.Apr 21 13:53
oiaohmand other init systems like it.Apr 21 13:53
oiaohmsystemd due to how it works really does not care if the console is there or not.Apr 21 13:53
oiaohmIf there is no really tty systemd just has uses a pty instead so everything running inside perfectly happy.Apr 21 13:54
oiaohmreally/realApr 21 13:54
oiaohmIssue was /dev/console symlinked to /dev/null and scripts expecting a tty on /dev/console so query console and get garbage.Apr 21 13:55
MinceRseemed more like they couldn't do the ioctls they wantedApr 21 13:56
MinceR/dev/null isn't famous for giving you garbage :>Apr 21 13:56
oiaohmExactly using tty ioctls on /dev/null does not work well.Apr 21 13:56
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oiaohm  the patch is clear it for script based init systems going badly wrong.Apr 21 13:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | kernel/git/gregkh/tty.git - TTY/Serial driver development treeApr 21 13:57
oiaohmdue to scripts attempting tty actions on /dev/null.Apr 21 13:57
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oiaohmMinceR:  the company behind the patch.  Yep linux based security cameras of course they don't always have console at all.Apr 21 13:59
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Axis Communications - Leader in network cameras and other IP networking solutions | Axis CommunicationsApr 21 13:59
MinceRicApr 21 13:59
oiaohmIts basically a fix for script based init systems.   This might cover openrc as well.Apr 21 13:59
oiaohmwhen they are used in horrible embedded.Apr 21 14:00
oiaohmReally I cannot think of a valid desktop case to have /dev/console as null device.Apr 21 14:01
oiaohmEven server is questionable.Apr 21 14:01
oiaohmThe other thing is even that they add console=ttynull  console=null will still to its old evil of linking /dev/console to null and letting the hell fall where it may.Apr 21 14:05
MinceRor they could just do something like console=ttyS0Apr 21 14:20
MinceRschestowitz: seems this /dev/console is not the same as the virtual consoleApr 21 14:21
MinceRit's a tty which could theoretically be pointed anywhereApr 21 14:21
schestowitzok, thanksApr 21 14:27
schestowitzI too interprety tty as vtApr 21 14:27
schestowitz*interpretApr 21 14:28
MinceR 21 14:51
MinceR 21 14:52
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Physics Is Pointing Inexorably to Mind - Scientific American Blog NetworkApr 21 14:52
XRevan86MinceR: What are they trying to say?Apr 21 14:54
MinceRin which one?Apr 21 14:54
XRevan86MinceR: In the article.Apr 21 14:54
MinceRthat it seems like the physical world of matter we appear to experience is more of an abstraction of a reality that is made of informationApr 21 14:55
XRevan86We scan reality and then act on the information gathered.Apr 21 14:56
XRevan86even though we receive only information and not the direct realness of reality…Apr 21 14:57
XRevan86realness is more important, because information is merely a reflection of it, which we have an obligation to maintain as accurateApr 21 14:57
XRevan86Because information of a tiger won't eat ya, a real tiger wouldApr 21 14:58
MinceRit's not information _of_ a tiger, it's information that happens to _be_ a tigerApr 21 15:00
XRevan86MinceR: Ah, I see, it's about the concept of what is the objective reality itselfApr 21 15:01
MinceRindeedApr 21 15:01
XRevan86Still, only physical matter constructed in a tiger-like way is what's going to eat ya %)Apr 21 15:01
MinceRthat physical matter may well be an illusionApr 21 15:01
XRevan86> Indeed, according to information realists, matter arises from information processing, not the other way around. Even mind—psyche, soul—is supposedly a derivative phenomenon of purely abstract information manipulation.Apr 21 15:03
XRevan86oh boyApr 21 15:03
XRevan86MinceR: This looks like a discussion on definitions and categoriesApr 21 15:04
XRevan86whateverApr 21 15:04
MinceRdoesn't seem like that to meApr 21 15:04
MinceRmore like what follows from all those weird quantum-mechanical effects that were foundApr 21 15:05
MinceRthat make reality look like a simulationApr 21 15:05
XRevan86MinceR: This debates the concept of realness.Apr 21 15:06
oiaohmReally the weird of quantum mechanical could be that we somehow have missed a complete force of the universe. Apr 21 15:10
oiaohmThe horrible would be if the universe is a complete paradox.       As in the Universe exists because something exists to observe it.   And we exist because something observed.   So material can be broken down insane number of times because we are looking?Apr 21 15:13
XRevan86oiaohm: That's a way too… egocentric way of looking at the universe.Apr 21 15:23
XRevan86As if in the Universe's perspective humans are more special than a pile of dust.Apr 21 15:24
XRevan86So that we have a very special status of being observers who make it be.Apr 21 15:24
XRevan86and not just some elaborate organisation of matterApr 21 15:25
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Free/Libre LMS and CMS: Why FOSS, Sakai 'Outage' and CMS Wire on Tools Worth Checking Out []Apr 21 15:33
XRevan86My view completely strips humanity of its rank as a navel of the Universe.Apr 21 15:34
XRevan86I see it as this: we can do things in the Universe, affect it in any way we want, but just us being here makes no difference whatsoever.Apr 21 15:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: Windows, Marcus Hutchins, Phishing, OpenVPN, DARPA, DINSIC []Apr 21 15:36
XRevan86except for our metabolism moving matter and energy around, of courseApr 21 15:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Capcom's FOSS Anomaly and 'Interrogation' Coming to GNU/Linux []Apr 21 15:39
oiaohmXRevan86: I did not say we were the only observers.Apr 21 15:44
XRevan86oiaohm: But you did imply that we are observers.Apr 21 15:45
XRevan86and that this status means somethingApr 21 15:45
XRevan86my assertions can be extrapolated on any other species living in this universeApr 21 15:45
oiaohmXRevan86: what would make us special is unlike the all the other natural obervers we are looking closer and closer.Apr 21 15:46
oiaohmXRevan86: the worse nightmare is by being obervers we are rewriting the rules of the universe.Apr 21 15:46
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XRevan86oiaohm: Except that we haven't always done that, and this had no impact whatsoeverApr 21 15:46
*XRevan86 looks out the windowApr 21 15:47
XRevan86oiaohm: have we?Apr 21 15:47
oiaohmProving if we have or have not would be insanely hard.Apr 21 15:47
oiaohmIf the universe is a form of paradox.  We would be hoping its not.Apr 21 15:48
MinceRXRevan86: navels are overratedApr 21 15:48
oiaohmLets say we absolutely work out that everything is energy and due to power to alter the rules exist we magically nuke solid matter and that was because we were stupid enough to look that close. Apr 21 15:49
oiaohmIf god exists would would put it past him having a horrible practical joke sense  as a lot of humans do and basically chinese finger trap the complete universe.Apr 21 15:50
MinceRat least there would be a purpose to itApr 21 15:50
MinceRand the universe would cease to exist once that purpose is reachedApr 21 15:50
oiaohmYep and create another one and the the next lot none the wiser.Apr 21 15:51
oiaohmAnd get to play the joke all over again.Apr 21 15:51
MinceRwe can't know thatApr 21 15:51
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu Studio 18.04 Extended Support []Apr 21 15:51
oiaohmOf course leave us with the means to wild guess it for gods fun of courseApr 21 15:51
MinceR 21 15:59
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Enter The Dojo, Episode 1: Welcome To The Dojo - YouTubeApr 21 15:59
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian Project Leader Election 2019 Results (Sam Hartman Won) []Apr 21 16:01
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE Usability & Productivity: Week 67 []Apr 21 16:04
MinceR 21 16:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectApr 21 16:08
XRevan86MinceR: I think you've shared this photograph before.Apr 21 16:09
MinceRi think i shared a similar but different oneApr 21 16:09
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 11 Great Free Linux Foreign Language Tools []Apr 21 16:11
XRevan86MinceR: I just wonder if this was a design choice or a salvage operation.Apr 21 16:12
MinceRnot sure how this salvages anythingApr 21 16:12
XRevan86MinceR: Maybe it was so poorly planned that they had to do it this way just to get the stairs to every door.Apr 21 16:13
XRevan86possibly with the staircases at the angle they already had at their disposalApr 21 16:14
MinceRi seeApr 21 16:14
MinceRare staircases pre-cast from concrete or something?Apr 21 16:14
XRevan86they seem solidApr 21 16:16
*XRevan86 dunnosApr 21 16:16
XRevan86or maybe it was their innovative way of avoiding stairs that are too steep %)Apr 21 16:17
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Sam Hartman seems like a good, uncontroversial #dpl #debian #gnu linux []Apr 21 16:20
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: A Set Of Obscure Drivers Out-Of-Tree Since Linux 2.x Will See Mainline For Linux 5.2 []Apr 21 16:34
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Using Ksplice To Detect Exploit Attempts []Apr 21 16:42
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-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OSS Leftovers []Apr 21 17:27
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers (mostly howtos and programming) []Apr 21 17:31
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 21/4/2019: SuperTuxKart's 1.0 Release, Sam Hartman Is Debian’s Newest Project Leader (DPL) []Apr 21 17:43
schestowitzTottenham L. ManUtd L. Arsenal L. And 3rd-6th place remain a case of BINGO.Apr 21 17:47
schestowitz 21 18:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | GNU/Linux is Being Eaten Alive by Large Corporations With Their Agenda : StallmanWasRightApr 21 18:12
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:12
schestowitzEmbrace, Extend, ExtinguishApr 21 18:12
schestowitzWas a popular description of Microsoft practices in the '90's, and it seems like their classic approach is still alive and well.Apr 21 18:12
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:12
schestowitz"I wonder how many upvotes stem from people agreeing with the headline but not reading this poorly written article..."Apr 21 18:12
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:12
schestowitzThe thing is fucking hard to read it is so bad.Apr 21 18:12
schestowitzA sort of corporate takeover, or moneyed interests at the expense of our freedom, can be seen as a ‘soft coup’ whose eventual outcome would involve all or most servers in ‘the cloud’ (surveillance with patent tax as part of the rental fees) and almost no laptops/desktops which aren’t remotely controlled (and limit what’s run on them, using something like UEFI ‘secure boot’)Apr 21 18:12
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:12
schestowitz"UEFI secure boot is absolutely fine unless the OEM fucks it up, blame the OEM not the tech."Apr 21 18:12
schestowitz"sure it reads like a dystopian novel but those things aren't that preposterous.Apr 21 18:12
schestowitz"*raises hand*"Apr 21 18:13
schestowitz"-tips tinfoil fedora- @ u/speckz"Apr 21 18:13
schestowitz"Holy clickbait batman"Apr 21 18:13
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:13
schestowitzWhy is this crap posted here?Apr 21 18:13
schestowitzThis page is full of the most insane rambling and unfounded garbage.Apr 21 18:13
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:13
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:14
schestowitzIt's rambling garbage (in terms of writing quality), but if you hold your nose and read through it, some of it isn't actually insane or unfounded.Apr 21 18:14
schestowitzThe TL;DR is that the author is concerned about the sorts of things that the GPLv3 and/or Affero GPL were created to address, such as lack of patent licensing or software-as-a-service rendering the freedoms the GPL grants moot. (Unfortunately, he fails to identify the fact that the kernel isn't GPLv3 as the root cause of the problem.)Apr 21 18:14
schestowitzHe also asserts that the Linux Foundation has basically become corrupted, especially since Microsoft was allowed to join. Accusations include:Apr 21 18:14
schestowitzIt's misusing its money by paying its administration more than it pays Linus Torvalds.Apr 21 18:14
schestowitzIt's failing to properly protect Linux from patent-related Microsoft FUD.Apr 21 18:14
schestowitzIt's too political and pro-corporate.Apr 21 18:14
schestowitzHe doesn't like the code of conduct.Apr 21 18:14
schestowitzHe also almost achieves some actual insight when he talks about how patent pools are actually pro-software-patent (a bad thing), but fails to explore the topic sufficiently.Apr 21 18:14
schestowitzBy the time it gets to the last paragraph (the one with a bunch of "[...]" for some reason), it's too incoherent to make any sense of at all.Apr 21 18:14
schestowitz(Edit: formatting)Apr 21 18:14
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:14
schestowitz"I agree about the Linux Foundation. It's a hot mess right now"Apr 21 18:14
schestowitz"OSI's weekly meetings take place at the FSF. Management lies to RMS about it."Apr 21 18:14
schestowitz"That is impressive given that the meetings are monthly and that there are only two in-person meetings per year."Apr 21 18:14
schestowitz"Maybe this isn’t the right place to ask, but I often see people drawing significant distinctions between free and open source. Can anyone point me to some resources that discuss the history and distinction in more detail? I used to think this wasn’t a distinction worth making, but I’m growing more concerned and would like to build a real understanding.'Apr 21 18:15
schestowitz 21 18:15
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | GNU/Linux is Being Eaten Alive by Large Corporations With Their Agenda : StallmanWasRightApr 21 18:15
schestowitzMisconceptions:Apr 21 18:15
schestowitzFree software is copyleft, open source is permissive (non-copyleft) (This is somewhat true indirectly, as a matter of philosophy, as I'll get to later)Apr 21 18:15
schestowitzFree software means it doesn't cost moneyApr 21 18:15
schestowitzOpen source just means you can look at the source codeApr 21 18:15
schestowitzLike some other replies have said, free software and open source mean almost the same thing in practice, but the difference is in philosophy. Essentially, the free software movement started in 1983, with the GNU project, whose goal was to create an operating system composed only of free software, that the user could inspect, modify, and share at will. The open source movement came later, in 1998, and started at a "strategy session" Apr 21 18:15
schestowitzdiscussing how to adapt the free software development approach in a "business-friendly" way. In essence, "open source" is the result of software companies coopting free software to serve their own business ends.Apr 21 18:15
schestowitzAs to the practical effects of this philosophical difference: Proponents of "open source" champion it as a more effective means of developing "almost everything," as Tom Preston-Werner (founder of GitHub) puts it. "Almost everything" means anything that does not "represent core business value." In practice, this means frameworks, libraries, middleware, and server infrastructure. This is why JavaScript frameworks and build tools are a dime a Apr 21 18:16
schestowitzdozen yet the "Linux" desktop continues to struggle. Ever wonder how Android is supposedly more "open sourcey" than Windows and yet feels much more locked down? Or how "Linux" can thrive on "the cloud" while our privacy and digital freedoms become ever more curtailed? This is why.Apr 21 18:16
schestowitzAnd, when these people suddenly decide that these things can "represent core business value," they invent ridiculous things like "Commons Clause" to try to re-proprietarize it while claiming to be vaguely "open-" something or other.Apr 21 18:16
schestowitzEdit: From that same blog, how NewPipe represents the best of free software and how it compares to the proprietary app. NewPipe is pro-user and the proprietary app is anti-user. The proprietary app no doubt contains many lines of "open source" library and framework code, but that means nothing to the user.Apr 21 18:16
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:16
schestowitz"Open source frees the developers to use all the code they want, however they want, in creating a product for themselves and end-users. Freedom on the creation end for that small fraction of the world engaged in software development. Free Software is end-user control over their own private-property: their computer hardware. You needn't be a software developer to experience the benefits of liberation, since you are entitled to full Apr 21 18:16
schestowitztransparency by access to all the source. Free software gives the vast majority security in being able to, at least, pay whoever they want to audit or reprogram anything whatever in their computer, unbeholden to any single corporation."Apr 21 18:16
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:16
schestowitz 21 18:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Richard Stallman's TEDx video: "Introduction to Free Software" - YouTubeApr 21 18:16
schestowitzExplication from the man itself about the difference between free software and open sourceApr 21 18:16
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:16
schestowitz"A lot of stuff was open source before Microsoft, it just wasn't free, you still had to pay to use it legally/own a copy. There wasn't internet around to "pirate" that stuff massively either. Unix was totally open source. You paid for it and it came with the source code inside the "package".'Apr 21 18:16
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:16
schestowitzUnix was totally open source.Apr 21 18:16
schestowitzThe open-source movement was, in fact, a response to many vendors' implementations of Unix not being open-source. BSD was open, but there were/are a whole host of non-free, proprietary Unixes, including AIX, Xenix, Irix, HP-UX, etc. And the BSD license was problematic for free software advocates, which is why the GNU project was born in the first place.Apr 21 18:16
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:17
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:17
schestowitzThe guy is also a huge paranoid anti-microsoft person.Apr 21 18:17
schestowitzLike don't get me wrong MS do some awful stuff but often it's more paranoia and less bounded by reality.Apr 21 18:17
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:17
schestowitz"Many of us remember the 1990s. Microsoft is no choir boy."Apr 21 18:17
schestowitz"Where did I say it was?"Apr 21 18:17
schestowitz"Microsoft has not changed. "Open Source" has."Apr 21 18:17
schestowitz""Some of us remember WW2, Germany is no choir boy.""Apr 21 18:19
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:19
schestowitz"Some of us remember WW2, Germany is no choir boy."Apr 21 18:19
schestowitzGodwin's Law? Anyway, Germany is no longer run by Nazis. Hasn't been since 1945. Yet Microsoft still acts badly, just look at how Win10 tracks user behavior and thereby violates privacy.Apr 21 18:19
schestowitzGermany's worst atrocity these days is Alsatian food. Which, I might add, should perhaps get them a culinary rights violation from the UN. But then they'd have to hit the UK for their fish and chips first. And by that time we'd have a general UNExit.Apr 21 18:19
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:19
schestowitz"Microsoft also doesn't have the same CEO, or certain shareholders since the 90s either lmao"Apr 21 18:19
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:20
schestowitzFree as in speech, not free as in beer.Apr 21 18:20
schestowitz 21 18:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Why Open Source Misses the Point of Free Software - GNU Project - Free Software FoundationApr 21 18:20
schestowitzThe term “free software” is prone to misinterpretation: an unintended meaning, “software you can get for zero price,” fits the term just as well as the intended meaning, “software which gives the user certain freedoms.” We address this problem by publishing the definition of free software, and by saying “Think of ‘free speech,’ not ‘free beer.’” Apr 21 18:20
schestowitzStallman is unambiguous on that, but it's still an easy mistake to make.Apr 21 18:20
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:20
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:20
schestowitzIt is a distinction worth making if you care about technicalities (and many people in this field do). Most free (libre) software is open source, and a large part of open source software is free or almost free.Apr 21 18:20
schestowitzAs Stallman himself puts it (IIRC) it's more a matter of intentions. Those who advocate for open source see it mainly as a tool to make better software: if more people can see the code, it's more likely to find bugs or security issues, and people will trust it more. Free software advocates see the advanage of open source, but for them it's more a philosophical matter, freedom for freedom's sake: if you run code on your machine, you must be Apr 21 18:20
schestowitzable to know what that code does, and you must be able to learn from it and do whatever you want with it.Apr 21 18:20
schestowitzIn most of the cases there is no practical difference between open source and free software, so that kind of software is often referred as FOSS (Free and Open Source Software). But nothing prevents you from publishing the code of your software without letting other people legally use or modify it.Apr 21 18:20
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:20
schestowitz"I think your answer provides much needed context, but I think it’s also important to mention the difference between the four freedoms and applying a license to your code.'Apr 21 18:20
schestowitz"you definitely hit on it by mentioning intentions, just thought it might help to expand a little.Apr 21 18:20
schestowitz"You're definitely right, but I lack the knowledge and will to explain that in detail."Apr 21 18:20
schestowitz"totally fair, i hope i didn't come off sounding unkind. i just wanted to expand for the op.'Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz"=)Apr 21 18:21
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schestowitz"Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzOne does not imply another.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzFree : do whatever you want with itApr 21 18:21
schestowitzOpen source : you can see how it's made.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzA lot of Linux stuff is free AND open source, but for instance Solaris is open source without being free, if I remember wellApr 21 18:21
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzFree also doesn't imply do whatever you want with it. It just means that you don't need to pay to use it, but there might be other license restrictions.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzEdit: Seems like I was wrong on how the terminology is used here.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz'Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzNo, you're describing proprietary "freeware," which is a totally different thing (and can in fact be -- and often is -- closed source).Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz"Free Software" necessarily requires that the user have the freedom to run it, modify it and run the modified version, distribute it to others with or without modification, and grant those others the same freedom.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzthis is the “free as in beer” interpretation and misses the gnu point about software freedom as defined by the four freedoms.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzwith truly free software you most definitely can do whatever you want with it.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz"Yes it does. When we say "Free" we mean "Free as in Freedom." "Gratis" is the word we use for items given away at no direct financial cost.'Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz"I had the "free of rights" things in my head."Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzAmazingly no one has linked you the four freedoms. When we refer to Free Software, what we mean is software that conforms to the four freedoms. The guy you replied to was wrong, and you were (more) right.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzA program is free software if the program's users have the four essential freedoms:Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzThe freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzThe freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzThe freedom to redistribute copies so you can help others (freedom 2).Apr 21 18:21
schestowitzThe freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz""Free of rights" is a remarkably awkward and confusing way to put it. That phrase sounds more like it means "rights-free" or "without rights." Free[-as-in-freedom] Software is quite the opposite of "free of rights!"''Apr 21 18:21
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzThis is a poor translation of the term used in my country, sorry for the confusion. "Libre de droits" (literally "Free of rights") means something without copyright or anything.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzSorry for the mistake, I thought the same expression was valid in EnglishApr 21 18:22
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:22
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzSorry for the mistake, I thought the same expression was valid in EnglishApr 21 18:22
schestowitzIt's confusing in English too. If you just say "Free Software" to people who aren't familiar with the term, they think you mean they don't have to pay for it. So many folks have taken to saying "gratis" to mean free of charge, and "libre" to mean respecting user freedom. I suspect that we're probably not fully using the word "libre" correctly, but it's the term that seems to have caught on.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:22
schestowitz"Libre de droits" (literally "Free of rights") means something without copyright or anything.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzThe English term for that is "Public Domain."Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzIncidentally, while all public domain software is Free Software, the terms aren't interchangeable because not all Free Software is public domain.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzIn fact, very little Free Software is public domain. This is because (a) there's no such thing as software that's so old the copyright has expired, and (b) it's surprisingly difficult to actually disclaim copyright. Instead, using the MIT license or some similar permissive license is the next best thing.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzHowever, some Free Software licenses, such as the GPL, are materially different from public domain -- or, I would say, go beyond public domain -- by being "copyleft". Public domain software affords maximum freedom to whoever obtains it initially, but that includes the dubious freedom to make it proprietary and thus deprive downstream users of their freedoms. Copyleft Free Software enforces fairness by requiring that all downstream users get Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzthe same freedoms that the initial user has, which some (selfish) people construe as reducing the freedom of that initial user. Copyleft definitely can't be public domain, though, because it leverages copyright against itself to make those fairness requirements legally enforceable.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitz"Thanks for your lights"Apr 21 18:22
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzYou're welcome.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzBy the way, now that I think about it, I'm deeply troubled by that "libre de droits" terminology. It's almost Orwellian: it's highly misleading to shorten "free of copyright" to "free of rights" because copyright isn't an actual right at all, but instead is a restriction on the rights of others.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzAt least in the USA, copyright is nothing more than a temporary monopoly privilege granted by the government for the purpose of encouraging the creation of works. Essentially, all works inherently belong to the Public Domain, but society lets the creators borrow control of them for a while as an incentive for those creators motivated by profit.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzAdmittedly, the French basis of copyright is "droit d'auteur," but fuck that. That whole concept is dangerously wrong because (a) it gives authors too much power to censor public discourse, and (b) if copyright really were an actual property right, it would clearly be unjust for it ever to expire because that would be tantamount to confiscation. But perpetual copyright would cause horrific consequences -- namely, destroying the free exchange Apr 21 18:22
schestowitzof ideas -- and is therefore untenable, which means "droit d'auteur" is untenable too.Apr 21 18:22
schestowitz"Apr 21 18:22
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Dilbert Comic Strip on 2001-12-07 | Dilbert by Scott AdamsApr 21 21:39
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