IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Saturday, October 09, 2021

schestowitz

-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.reddit.com | Statement/request by Richard Stallman about his recent talk : uwaterloo

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At the start of my talk on Dec 4, around 30 people were watching. By

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the end, it was around 100. (I hope this doesn't mean people didn't

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get notice in advance!) People have asked me to post the recording,

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and I will do that. If you would like to watch the talk, you will

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have the opportunity.

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Would you please do something for me, that will be greatly helpful to

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me in my activities? I would like you to show your appreciation for

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my work and my ideas at the time I need it most.

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I ask you to email the Dean of the Faculty of Mathematics, at

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deanmath@uwaterloo.ca, asking the Faculty of Mathematics to host the

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recording of my talk.

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For instance, you could say, "I ask the Faculty of Mathematics to host

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the recording of the talk that Richard Stallman was invited to give to

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students of the University of Waterloo. His invitation was canceled

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based on false accusations, but he gave the talk anyway. Please show

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that his contribution to the university community is appreciated, by

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hosting the recording now." Or say whatever you like.

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However you say it, please post the same text on the university's

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subreddit, so other students can see you ask for this. You can also

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tell your friends and acquaintances who have a relationship to the

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university.

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If this were a matter of rational argument, a single convincing

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argument would be enough. Alas, it isn't like that -- it will

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probably take many statements of support to persuade the dean. So if

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you see that others have sent these messages, don't think that "It's

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already done." Please add one more.

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https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BzI7wqUBZbkJ:https://libredd.it/r/uwaterloo/comments/k35jw5/richard_stallman_is_being_falsely_accused_of/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

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-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-webcache.googleusercontent.com | Richard Stallman is being falsely accused of things he did not do - r/uwaterloo

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Richard Stallman is being falsely accused of things he did not do Serious

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I like to consider myself a progressive person, and I see what everyone is saying here against Richard Stallman.

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But these accusations that he is misogynist or a defender of pedophilia or a defender of sexual assault are wrong.

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Have a look at these please (and read them completely, please. I have read every single word of Selam G's medium blog posts, and out of respect for that, I would ask that you read the entirety of these two web pages before commenting. Not enough people are reading everything, which is leading to misconceptions. Read everything and decide everything for yourself):

https://blog.dachary.org/2020/02/10/how-the-cancel-culture-was-leveraged-against-rms/

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https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/index.html

-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-blog.dachary.org | How the cancel culture was leveraged against RMS – Loïc Dachary

-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-sterling-archermedes.github.io | Low grade "journalists" and internet mob attack RMS with lies. In-depth review.

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Richard Stallman had views on a topic which is considered controversial (sexism, prostitution, racism), and none of his views them defended pedophilia or misogyny or sexual assault, but taken out of context, they seemed that way.

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If you have actually read both of those web pages, you will understand what I mean. I know that even despite me telling people to read them in their entirety, some people will not. So here is a summary with things heavily copied and pasted from the sources above:

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Claim: Richard Stallman defended sexual assault

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No. According to source #2: "There was a Facebook event calling for a protest regarding donations Jeffrey Epstein made to MIT. Stallman objected to the wording of the description of the event. Objecting to choices of words is something he is known for doing, he is a philosopher after all." The wording of the event was basically saying that Marvin Minsky sexually assaulted Giuffre, which Stallman disagreed with.

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The email was regarding this report by the verge:https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20798900/marvin-minsky-jeffrey

-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.theverge.com | AI pioneer Marvin Minsky accused of sex with Epstein trafficking victim - The Verge

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You will see in this article that Giuffre was directed by Jeffrey Epstein to have sex with Minsky. Is this equivalent to Minsky assaulting Giuffre? Think about this yourselves. If A tells B to have sex with C, C assaulted B? The Facebook post sensationalized "Giuffre being directed to have sex with Marvin" as "Marvin assaulted Giuffre". Why? It makes very little sense to me, and it made very little sense to Dr. Stallman as well. Dr.

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Stallman used to be a colleague of Marvin Minsky from what I understand, and I would also defend any colleague of mine who was wrongly accused of sexual assault by a sensationalized Facebook post. Is defending someone who is wrongly accused of being "guilty" where the principle is that "innocent until proven guilty" the wrong thing to do?

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To this date, it has not been confirmed that Marvin Minsky even had sex with Giuffre. Read the section on Marvin's Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Minsky#Association_with_Jeffrey_Epstein, and you might think it is way more likely that Marvin did not have sex with Giuffre, as quoting the sources Wikipedia used (you may verify these yourselves): " There has been no allegation that sex between them took place nor a

-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-en.wikipedia.org | Marvin Minsky - Wikipedia

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lawsuit against Minsky's estate.[49] Minsky's widow, Gloria Rudisch, says that he could not have had sex with any of the women at Epstein's residences, as they were always together during all of the visits to Epstein's residences.[50][51] "

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Claim: Richard Stallman defends pedophiles and pedophilia.

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No. Here is what he says (summary: he is saying Epstein is a serial rapist and should have a longer sentence)

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(Now) Labor Secretary Acosta's plea deal for Jeffrey Epstein was not only extremely lenient, it was so lenient that it was illegal.

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I wonder whether this makes it possible to resentence him to a longer prison term.

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I disagree with some of what the article says about Epstein. Epstein is not, apparently, a pedophile, since the people he raped seem to have all been postpuberal.

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By contrast, calling him a sex offender tends to minimize his crimes, since it groups him with people who committed a spectrum of acts of varying levels of gravity. Some of them were not crimes. Some of these people didn't actually do anything to anyone.

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I think the right term for a person such as Epstein is serial rapist.

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What he is disagreeing with is the fact that the word pedophilia has been used differently than the definition in most dictionaries.

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https://www.britannica.com/topic/pedophilia

-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.britannica.com | pedophilia | Definition & Facts | Britannica

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https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/explaining-pedophilia#1

-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.webmd.com | What is Pedophilia: FAQ on Pedophiles and Pedophilia

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Both the above (which I think are some of the most reputable sources I could find online; Encyclopedia Britannica and WebMD have been around for ages and everyone consults these sources for basically everything), basically say that pedophilia is defined as sex or interest in sex by adults with prepubescent children, which they define as "generally aged 13 or younger". All the minors that Epstein seemed to have raped were above 13 years

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of age.

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Stallman thus says Epstein is not a pedophile, since that is not how the term is defined. He also says Epstein is a serial rapist and should be sentenced to much longer prison term, something that I personally agree with as well.

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Read the sources 1 and 2 for more information on his comments on pedophilia. They are all covered in these sources, so please just read them. I am too tired to copy-paste them over, but he is not endorsing the practice.

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Claim: Richard Stallman is a misogynist.

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Likely, this accusation is being made because of some of the quotes and pictures that Selam G. posted. These quotes all seem to be made decades ago, with probably the most controversial one from 1985. There is no source mentioned for these quotes at all, so I don't know how Selam G. managed to get the testimonies of people who are probably 60-70 years old by now.

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The picture of the sign in front of his office did not say "also: hot ladies". This was later added by an unknown person, as mentioned in source #1.

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For the rest of the quotes, it is explained in Source #2. Again, please read both these sources in their entirety.

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The only real questionable quote seems to be this one at the end which was about 1985 apparently:

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When I was a teen freshman, I went to a buffet lunch at an Indian restaurant in Central Square with a graduate student friend and others from the AI lab. I don't know if he and I were the last two left, but at a table with only the two of us, Richard Stallman told me of his misery and that he'd kill himself if I didn't go out with him.

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I felt bad for him and also uncomfortable and manipulated. I did not like being put in that position — suddenly responsible for an important man. What had I done to get into this situation? I decided I could not be responsible for his living or dying, and would have to accept him killing himself. I declined further contact.

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He was not a man of his word or he'd be long dead.

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- Betsy S., Bachelor's in Management Science, '85

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I agree that this is bad. Source #2 mentions this about this quote above:

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"The next story does sound inappropriate by today stardards but something that is unacceptable today could have been perfectly fine in 1985 (when it happened). Even if it had happened today, I don't think this alone could justify everything that is being done to Stallman. I say this alone because, as we've seen, the rest are lies and mis-characterizations."

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With which I do agree. What is more is that this kind of thing only seems to have happened in 1985 and not in the 35 years since? Stallman made a mistake once, he is not a perfect human being at all. I know a couple of high school friends who have threatened to kill themselves in order to get their way during a relationship or romance as well. Does this make them misogynists? It is terrible behaviour from Stallman, and it happened once

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in 35 years, if it did happen (again, Selam G. mentions no source for these quotes).

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This personally makes me scared as well. I was once a very depressed student and during the time that I was depressed I was thinking about suicide every single day, and am sure made some comments about death or romance that made someone uncomfortable. Should I be cancelled due to that one mistake when I was not mentally well? I don't know what Stallman's life was like when he made this comment or if he was suffering from mental illness.

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We need to be a bit more kind. He did not sexually assault this woman, if that's what you are concerned about either. Stallman has never been accused of sexual assault or misconduct, unlike billionaires with lawyers to defend them, such as someone like Donald Trump.

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All in all, the way the world is headed is scaring me. Stallman even lost his home because of all this misinterpretation by tabloid "journalists" who twist the facts (see here)). What a travesty of free speech we have created with this culture that we endorse.

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I am not a lawyer, but I think Richard Stallman should explore suing for defamation here. This entire defamation episode has cost him his job and respect in the community by people who have twisted his words.

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Next time you see some controversy, please read both sides of the arguments and see what both sides have to say. As I said, I have read both sides, including both of Selam G.'s blog posts, in their entirety. I know that many of you will not even read the sources or even this far into this Reddit post, but if you do, you can now consider both sides when forming your opinion. Sensationalist titles of news articles or blogs do us no good in the

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quest of procuring facts. I hate that this is what we have come to as a society.

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https://httpd.apache.org/security/vulnerabilities_24.html

Techrights-sec

Oct 09 02:57

-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-httpd.apache.org | Apache HTTP Server 2.4 vulnerabilities - The Apache HTTP Server Project

Oct 09 02:57

schestowitz-TR

wait

Oct 09 02:58

Techrights-sec

Oct 09 02:58

schestowitz-TR

are all these packages going to be be changed? Also, are the servers delivering up to date packages? it's old EPEL.

Oct 09 02:59

Techrights-sec

it appears so. I am not experiences in CentOS, so there may be quirks

Oct 09 03:00

Techrights-sec

however, see URL above

Oct 09 03:00

schestowitz-TR

I saw that 2 days ago in CISA

Oct 09 03:00

schestowitz

http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/156505#comment-31285

Oct 09 03:01

-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.tuxmachines.org | Security: Patches, Reproducible Builds, and More | Tux Machines

Oct 09 03:01

Techrights-sec

Yes, it has been a while

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TM comments are not visible

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schestowitz-TR

you always had this issue, which is odd as it's part of plain HTML

schestowitz-TR

It says "Submitted", not "comments"

Oct 09 03:04

Techrights-sec

I can see the post, just not anh comments.

Oct 09 03:05

Techrights-sec

Anyway the patch seems to still be outstanding on TR at least.

Oct 09 03:05

schestowitz-TR

yes, true, but in case the other updates make something break it's good to have a fallback ready

Oct 09 03:05

schestowitz-TR

BTWm,, funny story:

Oct 09 03:06

schestowitz-TR

I wrongly assumed tmux was available, pressed ctrl+z to restart an irc bot, only then I noticed I had interfered with someone else's processes, that took some seconds to realise

Oct 09 03:07

schestowitz

rather than surprising that centos would want to update gtk2 on a` headless server, but gtk/gdk used to be more than gui, maybe that's still the case

Techrights-sec

ack

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yes, ctrl-z and ctrl-c and ctrl-s ...

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one becomes dependent and used to tmux

Techrights-sec

it looks like a full reboot would be required.

schestowitz

some months ago after a reboot systemd barfed and intervention by kaniini was needed to get it going again. Actually, it was a brownout rather than reboot

Oct 09 03:11

Techrights-sec

can we book time for kaniini to be available? I'd rather not put this off.

Oct 09 03:12

schestowitz

I will ask now...

Oct 09 03:12

Techrights-sec

Thanks.

Oct 09 03:12

schestowitz

I did not look into the technical details of it, but to what extent would fronting the apache back end with up to date varnish/nginx improve safety?

Oct 09 03:13

Techrights-sec

I have not looked into the details. The varnish front-end would

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probably help with performance.

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those can also be used to block dodgy requests

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Proof-of-concept code is seldom included

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any more.

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twitter used to delete all tweets of mine that linked to some code, even if merely sec research sites

Oct 09 03:16

Techrights-sec

Yes varnish can filter a bit.

Oct 09 03:17

Techrights-sec

nothign good to say about twitter here

Oct 09 03:17

Techrights-sec

"""

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The danger of the vulnerability mitigates the fact that the problem manifests itself only in the recently

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released version 2.4.49 and does not affect all earlier releases.

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"""

https://www.itsfoss.net/vulnerability-in-apache-http-server/

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-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.itsfoss.net | Vulnerability in Apache http server 2.4.49 allowing files outside of the site root to be retrieved - itsfoss.net

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it is outside my scrollback range now, but I wrote in social control media that this bugs proves, don't rush to use the latest and greatest. I wrote that 2 days ago.

Oct 09 03:28

schestowitz

same applies to wordpress BTW, we use a patched old version. also TM

Oct 09 03:28

schestowitz

the databases are in a new alpine container, php might be a risk

Oct 09 03:29

Techrights-sec

yet incremental chainges are often easier to work through than

Oct 09 03:34

Techrights-sec

monumental sea changes

Oct 09 03:34

schestowitz

don't misunderstand my tone (I cannot be heard in text), but I think we need to aim at replacing the whole OS piecewise and not risk breaking it while we do the 28-part EPO series, which took tons of work

Oct 09 03:35

Techrights-sec

Techrights-sec

how and when?

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kaniini said something about php versions and all, which is one challenge

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applicable to both TR and TM

Techrights-sec

yes, I looked into that a few years ago. i've forotten the details

Oct 09 03:37

Techrights-sec

but it was possible to update either WP or hold back to a patched PHP

Oct 09 03:37

schestowitz

good to know, another think kaniini wants to do is change the stack a bit, e.g. get rid of apache

Oct 09 03:38

Techrights-sec

I consider WP a liability in and of itself at this point regardless of version

Oct 09 03:39

Techrights-sec

Sure. Apache2 is not the best any more. What would be the replacement?

Oct 09 03:39

schestowitz

one of the niche players, but I need to check is all the redirects and stuff are doable in it, plus it integrates better with web-facing monitoring panel (which I did not ask for)

Oct 09 03:40

Techrights-sec

It has a powerful rewrite engine but no sites ever take advantage of it

Techrights-sec

and always break their old links when "migrating"

Techrights-sec

web-facing monitoring panel usually is a euphamism for javascript

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it starts small and simple, then gets fat, yes, with load passed to the client end

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today I accessed IA (for reasons I will make known later) and it was all a JS mess

Oct 09 03:45

Techrights-sec

yes, IA is in a precarious junction, if the web goes all-in on javascript

Techrights-sec

then they will have nothing they can actually archive but placeholders

http://techrights.org/2010/04/23/microsoft-walking-among-patents/

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-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | Microsoft Software Patents in Codecs, Web Font DRM, and Likewise-HP | Techrights

http://techrights.org/2013/01/31/drm-in-html5/

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-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | Warning: DRM in HTML5, It’s Microsoft Again | Techrights

http://techrights.org/2014/05/24/drm-on-text/

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-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | DRM on Text in Mozilla Firefox Not Ruled Out | Techrights

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ot: based on what I hear from family, usland rapidly develops into fullblown shithole of rude people and other nonsense

Oct 09 04:01

schestowitz

manning is trying to move to canada now, barrett brown to uk. i think rms has long wanted to move to europe

Oct 09 04:03

schestowitz

us used to be where asylum seekers applied to, now they flee the place

Oct 09 04:03

activelow

maybe not ot: it is a legal question. "greencard" and similar, and requirements to relocate.

Oct 09 04:07

schestowitz

Trump: my friends go to Africa to get rich (pillage the place). Seems like what happened to America itself. And the cannon fodder write off the debt for grifters while going to work and doing two jobs around the clock.

Oct 09 04:07

schestowitz

*going to war, not work, or both

Oct 09 04:07

activelow

in germany asylum, geneva refugee, legal working immigrant, and illegal immigrant is distinguished

Oct 09 04:08

activelow

inside EU inhabitants more or less may freely roam

Oct 09 04:09

activelow

anyway, once a request for asylum was made, altering the legal basis isn't trivial or impossible, to re-designate as working immigrant

Oct 09 04:10

activelow

asylum seekers often have no permit to work

Oct 09 04:10

activelow

however this is enforced, because labor is regulated, taxation and social security fees mandatory - nitty gritty details

Oct 09 04:10

activelow

if asylum is rejected a geneva "subsidiary protection" status can be granted, without the right to re-unite family

Oct 09 04:12

activelow

"greens" and "social democrats" altered some legislation, which i am not sure how this affects the legal status, since children born in germany are registered as german

Oct 09 04:14

activelow

on top of this, vaccination passports now, fees for mandatory testing

Techrights-sec

yes, uneducated nonsense; since the reagan administration began an

Techrights-sec

all out asault on teaching and knowledge, it has morphed into an asault

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on competency; however, the baseline of education is too low among the

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general population for a republic to be maintained; but that's moot

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since it has been acknowledged as a oligarchy for more than a few years now;

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Aaland might be a decend destination since he had concerns about being

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inside the EU proper.

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^decent

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^åland

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moscow mitch and trump and the others like them are softening the country

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up on behalf of their owners; Europe is not home free, some of the key

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vehicles for shifting control over a scale of generations are present already;

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commercial television and now social control media.

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no idea any more; besides most rural areas are impoverished and most

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urban areas are becoming war zones, economic if not also physical

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primates learn by metaphor and observation; all people see on television

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(incl. netflix and streaming in that category) and social control media

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is people tearing each other down for the approval of an oligarch or two;

Techrights-sec

the public has taken those practices to heart over the last decades;

Techrights-sec

back in a few hours

Oct 09 04:19

activelow

besides, immigrating into Europe poses another challenge: Languages, french, german, italian, czech, polish, russian, hungarian, dutch .... choose any

Oct 09 04:21

activelow

a permit for prolonged stay may or may not require to learn the language and pass some test

Oct 09 04:22

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Oct 09 14:11

schestowitz-TR

funny/nice to see our gemini toolset now has its own user-agent, too

Oct 09 14:11

schestowitz-TR

let's hope others will gradually adopt some of these tools and keep them out there (agpl)

Oct 09 14:11

Techrights-sec

Yes, I finally fixed the string. It had extra quotes and something

Oct 09 14:12

Techrights-sec

weird in the process, outside the agent itself, was making the quotes worse.

Oct 09 14:12

schestowitz-TR

I run a refresh after every "major" post and then it takes 5-10 mins to complete; I made slight enhancement to the deskop-side call

Oct 09 14:13

Techrights-sec

I hope the tools are useful, but I think they are so site specific that

Oct 09 14:13

Techrights-sec

they can't do much more than serve as a model.

Oct 09 14:13

schestowitz-TR

if they are like prototypes, like examples in some textbook, maybe someone can build a framework with these as starting point

Oct 09 14:14

Techrights-sec

A framwork is a lot of complexity. Gemini is simple, one-offs are

Oct 09 14:16

Techrights-sec

probably much less work than figuring out a framework and then customizing

Oct 09 14:16

Techrights-sec

it extensively.

Oct 09 14:16

Techrights-sec

SLOC Directory SLOC-by-Language (Sorted)

Techrights-sec

4191 Links perl=4122,sh=69

Techrights-sec

2103 Gemini perl=1447,sh=656

Techrights-sec

643 IPFS sh=447,python=196

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334 Desktop-Utils sh=334

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186 IRC sh=95,perl=91

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65 sbin-tm sh=65

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15 sbin sh=15

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Totals grouped by language (dominant language first):

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perl: 5660 (75.10%)

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sh: 1681 (22.30%)

Techrights-sec

python: 196 (2.60%)

Techrights-sec

Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 7,537

schestowitz-TR

it this is easily reproducible on the pi side, maybe we should have that being output to the gemini space? maybe once a week?

schestowitz-TR

*if

Oct 09 14:18

Techrights-sec

It should be just a matteer of adding David A Wheeler's sloccount package

Techrights-sec

and then wrapping the call in a script and then pointing to the script

Techrights-sec

in a cron job.

schestowitz-TR

do you want me to have a go at it?

Techrights-sec

Sure or I can, if you add the package. It should be a quick task.

schestowitz-TR

adding

Oct 09 14:20

schestowitz-TR

added

Oct 09 14:20

schestowitz-TR

I saw some other git-centric capsules, but we have more features than them

schestowitz

Most common capsules by number of working URLs

schestowitz

* gemini.techrights.org: 10000 URLs

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* gemini.rob-bolton.co.uk: 9999 URLs

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* git.sysrq.in: 9995 URLs

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* gemini.conman.org: 9973 URLs

schestowitz

10,000 means we get perfect fetch record; lately, no other capsule had a fidelity this high (maybe 2-3 weeks now)

Oct 09 14:23

Techrights-sec

gemini://gemini.techrights.org/git/sloc.gmi

Oct 09 14:33

schestowitz-TR

nice! does anything link to it yet?

Oct 09 14:33

Techrights-sec

Not yet, I'll add a link from the Git index

Oct 09 14:35

schestowitz-TR

Thanks, I'll link to the page now

Oct 09 14:35

Techrights-sec

gemini://gemini.techrights.org/git/

schestowitz-TR

you put it exactly where I too thought it fit best

Techrights-sec

Techrights-sec

I'll add it to Git now :)