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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: Monday, December 09, 2019

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schestowitz>>> Looking at the IRC logs for the main channel I see that the one troll isDec 09 00:18
schestowitz>>> still stationed there and drowning out any real discussion by fillingDec 09 00:18
schestowitz>>> the channel with copious amounts of off-topic blather for a particularDec 09 00:18
schestowitz>>> purpose not related to tech or rights.  I suppose everyone has him onDec 09 00:18
schestowitz>>> mute and he's just there in the logs.Dec 09 00:19
schestowitz>> Yes, talking about his car and family. Most people never respond to him,Dec 09 00:19
schestowitz>> so it's a bit of a monologue until he gets bored and moves on.Dec 09 00:19
schestowitz> I've seen that phenomenon in other contexts, so I now begin to wonderDec 09 00:19
schestowitz> about it being coordinated even if informally.Dec 09 00:19
schestowitz> Dec 09 00:19
schestowitz>> I have IRC color-coded here, so it's easy for me to ignore him withoutDec 09 00:19
schestowitz>> muting.Dec 09 00:19
schestowitz> That usually works except on the days the colors are similar.Dec 09 00:19
schestowitzThe IRC client is supposed to pick colours far apart. I think this one is bright green, so I pay little attention to it.Dec 09 00:19
schestowitz"Thank you for your work with Tux Machines! Merry Christmas from Sweden. "Dec 09 00:21
schestowitz"Dec 09 02:39
schestowitz@schestowitz @blacklight447 Dec 09 02:39
schestowitz"What was told to Arel" is in the Github discussion you're avoiding. Dec 09 02:39
schestowitzhttps://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/1562Dec 09 02:39
schestowitzWhat's funny is that we are all being super transparent and this decision is being done with the community, and people are making hilarious accusations they we have been lobbied/paid/you name it to relist them, when they have no been relisted and as of now, won't be because thats not how PT works.Dec 09 02:39
schestowitz"Dec 09 02:39
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pkLCEC2tfZlCOeIueDec 09 02:39
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-github.com | 🆕 Software Suggestion | Startpage.com · Issue #1562 · privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io · GitHubDec 09 02:39
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 02:39
schestowitzStartpage is owned by a surveillance company. If you are OK with it, go for it...Dec 09 02:39
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pkLKbueamdf52VkzwDec 09 02:40
schestowitz"Dec 09 02:40
schestowitzIt's worth noting your taking your privacy advice from "TechRights" an HTTP site... So that's how much they are about privacy and security.Dec 09 02:40
schestowitzAccusations such as yours may get you some new followers on social media, but they don't get you any respect or taken seriously by anyone who actually bothers to open up the Github discussion and see what's actually happening.Dec 09 02:40
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 02:40
schestowitzThat link again, since you don't seem to have it is:Dec 09 02:40
schestowitzhttps://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/1562Dec 09 02:40
schestowitz"Dec 09 02:40
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pkeZasyaj0PMraJncDec 09 02:41
schestowitz"Tragic and shameful."Dec 09 02:41
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 02:41
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pkpJPxwWSQUMYOgHQDec 09 02:41
schestowitz"was searching about eBPF. Microsoft documentation services is one of the hosts for this programming language that is only supported by the Linux kernel. MGS3 Paradox screen would be fitting here."Dec 09 02:41
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 02:41
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pkrrbt6u2Ip5nZJRIDec 09 02:41
schestowitz"<misdirection>Direct Rendering Memory is awesome though. Modesetting makes Intel work good with Linux kernel.</>"Dec 09 02:41
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 02:41
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pkxDncwR99TduPDg8Dec 09 02:42
schestowitz"out of interest, why is zenity not appropriate? Or will you cover that in the post?"Dec 09 02:42
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 02:42
schestowitzI want ncurses GUIDec 09 02:42
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pl3beovQml70JlqHQDec 09 02:42
schestowitz'may I contaminate your solution with this? https://github.com/Earnestly/taverner It worked well for the couple humans I saw using it."Dec 09 02:43
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 02:43
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-github.com | GitHub - Earnestly/taverner: Menu for games (or anything) using dmenu and a bunch of shell scripts, totally the UNIX® WayDec 09 02:43
schestowitzI ended up using 'dialog'Dec 09 02:43
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9plVgOcVt6ZSvO0romDec 09 02:43
schestowitz"that's some serious damage there! Hope he got proper treatment for that scar!"Dec 09 02:43
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 02:43
schestowitz> December is rushing along.Dec 09 04:45
schestowitzSlow news this past weekend. Family comes over later today.Dec 09 04:45
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Korben/status/1203922111988928512Dec 09 08:12
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@Korben: Un point de vue intéressant à lire sur WSL et Linux. #kbn https://t.co/j8VQMhEIsiDec 09 08:12
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell--> techrights.org | You Know WSL is Bad for GNU/Linux Because Anti-Linux People, Microsoft and Its Propagandists, Want People to Use That | TechrightsDec 09 08:13
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:13
schestowitzUn point de vue intéressant à lire sur WSL et Linux. #kbn http://techrights.org/2019/12/08/popaganda/Dec 09 08:13
schestowitzTranslated from French by MicrosoftDec 09 08:13
schestowitzAn interesting point of view to read on WSL and Linux. #kbn Dec 09 08:13
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:13
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/kriom/status/1203926819642187777Dec 09 08:13
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@kriom: @Korben Microsoft a été est et restera le premier des #gafaM Si Microsoft était passé du côté lumineux : - ses prod… https://t.co/JP9RmG1xziDec 09 08:13
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@kriom: @Korben Microsoft a été est et restera le premier des #gafaM Si Microsoft était passé du côté lumineux : - ses prod… https://t.co/JP9RmG1xziDec 09 08:13
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:13
schestowitzReplying to @KorbenDec 09 08:13
schestowitzMicrosoft a été est et restera le premier des #gafaMDec 09 08:13
schestowitzSi Microsoft était passé du côté lumineux :Dec 09 08:13
schestowitz- ses produits deviendraient gratuitsDec 09 08:13
schestowitz- ses produits deviendraient open sourcesDec 09 08:13
schestowitz- ses programmeurs feraient en sorte de pouvoir faire tourner Windows sous linux et pas l'inverseDec 09 08:14
schestowitz- ...Dec 09 08:14
schestowitzTranslated from French by MicrosoftDec 09 08:14
schestowitzMicrosoft has been and will remain the first #gafaMDec 09 08:14
schestowitzIf Microsoft had gone on the bright side:Dec 09 08:14
schestowitz- its products would become freeDec 09 08:14
schestowitz- its products would become open sourcesDec 09 08:14
schestowitz- its programmers would make sure to be able to run Windows on linux and not the other way aroundDec 09 08:14
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:14
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/_scelerat_/status/1203945057784651776Dec 09 08:14
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@_scelerat_: @kriom @Korben le logiciel libre n'est pas gratuit par essence. Vous confondez avec le WarezDec 09 08:14
schestowitz"Free software is not free in essence. You're confused with the Warez"Dec 09 08:14
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jhamby/status/1203909088679100416Dec 09 08:17
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: @schestowitz Once we realize that Facebook, Twitter, etc. were not designed to help users make more efficient use o… https://t.co/H79KP1hQNNDec 09 08:17
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: @schestowitz Once we realize that Facebook, Twitter, etc. were not designed to help users make more efficient use o… https://t.co/H79KP1hQNNDec 09 08:17
schestowitz"Once we realize that Facebook, Twitter, etc. were not designed to help users make more efficient use of our time, but rather to trick us into spending as much of it as possible there, we’ll be at least a little better at not becoming addicted. Same for YouTube (but not Google)."Dec 09 08:17
schestowitzThat's why I reply to you once a day. I limit access to one time window.Dec 09 08:17
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jhamby/status/1203910493598994432Dec 09 08:18
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: @schestowitz Whatever my next job is in tech is likely going to involve some amount of advertising and therefore so… https://t.co/Vr89y4jP1hDec 09 08:18
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: @schestowitz Whatever my next job is in tech is likely going to involve some amount of advertising and therefore so… https://t.co/Vr89y4jP1hDec 09 08:18
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:18
schestowitzWhatever my next job is in tech is likely going to involve some amount of advertising and therefore some amount of surveillance capitalism. I’ve made my peace with that, as long as it’s not “too creepy”. It’s when tech encourages us to misuse our attention that I get unhappy.Dec 09 08:18
schestowitz1Dec 09 08:18
schestowitzDec 09 08:18
schestowitzJake HambyDec 09 08:18
schestowitz@jhambyDec 09 08:18
schestowitz·Dec 09 08:18
schestowitz2hDec 09 08:18
schestowitzReplying to Dec 09 08:18
schestowitz@jhambyDec 09 08:18
schestowitz and Dec 09 08:18
schestowitz@schestowitzDec 09 08:18
schestowitzWhen I started at Google in 2010, they were still proudly telling employees that the company, unlike others, was about getting users to their destinations quickly and unobtrusively, without wasting their time. The addition of YouTube ad revenue warped the vision we’d been sold.Dec 09 08:19
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:19
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jhamby/status/1203908631520923648Dec 09 08:19
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: @schestowitz A lot of good details in this article. “Facebook … is a monopsonist of human attention. The social net… https://t.co/BfoAuccMnTDec 09 08:19
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: @schestowitz A lot of good details in this article. “Facebook … is a monopsonist of human attention. The social net… https://t.co/BfoAuccMnTDec 09 08:19
schestowitz"A lot of good details in this article. “Facebook … is a monopsonist of human attention. The social network leverages suppliers of media, typically it’s users themselves, who voluntarily supply Facebook via their own hyper-mediated personal lives.” I feel that way about Twitter."Dec 09 08:19
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/StarchyArchie/status/1203907163942465536Dec 09 08:20
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@StarchyArchie: @schestowitz #EndGunViolenceDec 09 08:20
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/leftylabourtech/status/1203881594043457548Dec 09 08:22
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@leftylabourtech: @schestowitz If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Tech bro culture needs to go.Dec 09 08:22
schestowitzIt is sometimes being weaponised to actually promote some agenda like surveillanceDec 09 08:22
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/j082298/status/1203877443909693442Dec 09 08:23
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@j082298: Absolutely, it's show time. 🤣🤣 https://t.co/x5gMtVXs4zDec 09 08:23
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@schestowitz: Charlie pretends to have moral high ground. Need we relist his own scandals too? https://t.co/lWOMdDfFzHDec 09 08:23
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/j082298/status/1203878459296145409Dec 09 08:23
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@j082298: @schestowitz https://t.co/FxGLq3Grb7Dec 09 08:23
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@j082298: @schestowitz https://t.co/FxGLq3Grb7Dec 09 08:23
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Friend650/status/1203845076855771137Dec 09 08:27
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@Friend650: @schestowitz @Reikilass Nuclear Death Machines MUST NEVER be used No matter how many are built They would DESTROY L… https://t.co/Ea85xZzfMlDec 09 08:27
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@Friend650: @schestowitz @Reikilass Nuclear Death Machines MUST NEVER be used No matter how many are built They would DESTROY L… https://t.co/Ea85xZzfMlDec 09 08:27
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:27
schestowitzNuclear Death Machines MUST NEVER be used No matter how many are built They would DESTROY LIFE ON EARTH FOR ALL TIMEDec 09 08:28
schestowitzEven the Nuclear "Industry" KNOWS THIS.Dec 09 08:28
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:28
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/ilovelinux5/status/1203839182126366721Dec 09 08:30
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@ilovelinux5: @schestowitz @JerameC @amruthasuri @Build5Nines @crpietschmann @peoplestreme @MedicaliPhone @Dizer_YM… https://t.co/6IkyNzOD61Dec 09 08:30
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@ilovelinux5: @schestowitz @JerameC @amruthasuri @Build5Nines @crpietschmann @peoplestreme @MedicaliPhone @Dizer_YM… https://t.co/6IkyNzOD61Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@schestowitzDec 09 08:30
schestowitz Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@JerameCDec 09 08:30
schestowitz Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@amruthasuriDec 09 08:30
schestowitz Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@Build5NinesDec 09 08:30
schestowitz Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@crpietschmannDec 09 08:30
schestowitz Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@peoplestremeDec 09 08:30
schestowitz Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@MedicaliPhoneDec 09 08:30
schestowitz Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@Dizer_YMDec 09 08:30
schestowitz Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@otitolojuidrisDec 09 08:30
schestowitz Dec 09 08:30
schestowitz@HostingJournalDec 09 08:31
schestowitz Dec 09 08:31
schestowitz@SchmuckerMartinDec 09 08:31
schestowitz Dec 09 08:31
schestowitz@thekindnessgirlDec 09 08:31
schestowitz Dec 09 08:31
schestowitz@_agboemmanuelDec 09 08:31
schestowitz Dec 09 08:31
schestowitz@digitalcloudgalDec 09 08:31
schestowitz Dec 09 08:31
schestowitz@artem__tkachukDec 09 08:31
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:31
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/eee_eff/status/1203809738099757061Dec 09 08:33
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@eee_eff: So..[drum roll]...... https://t.co/33582LyMJtDec 09 08:33
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@schestowitz: #Debian Begins Vote On Supporting Non- #Systemd Init Options https://t.co/MnTcerNQzB https://t.co/VgnEsjlyAzDec 09 08:33
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jbicha/status/1203709826976616448Dec 09 08:35
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jbicha: @tocsa2 @schestowitz According to the Debian Constitution, only Debian Developers can vote in General Resolutions. https://t.co/cBHLTadvfgDec 09 08:35
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell--> www.debian.org | Debian ConstitutionDec 09 08:35
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/cainntear/status/1203706021186809856Dec 09 08:35
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@cainntear: @jamesabernard @schestowitz Good point, although Google and Ubuntu have got very diff financial base. Without billi… https://t.co/L42qMXjpOTDec 09 08:35
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@cainntear: @jamesabernard @schestowitz Good point, although Google and Ubuntu have got very diff financial base. Without billi… https://t.co/L42qMXjpOTDec 09 08:35
schestowitz"Good point, although Google and Ubuntu have got very diff financial base. Without billions Google earned on ads, they'd have long be bankrupt because of the quality of many of their products."Dec 09 08:35
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/TheAnonNetwork/status/1203699076728049664Dec 09 08:36
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@TheAnonNetwork: @schestowitz Good luck.Dec 09 08:36
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/j082298/status/1203660112482586630Dec 09 08:38
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@j082298: @schestowitz The nonsense is mind blowing. It takes longer to pay a bill today than it did 40 years ago, banking, h… https://t.co/ocepSNGNopDec 09 08:38
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@j082298: @schestowitz The nonsense is mind blowing. It takes longer to pay a bill today than it did 40 years ago, banking, h… https://t.co/ocepSNGNopDec 09 08:38
schestowitz"The nonsense is mind blowing. It takes longer to pay a bill today than it did 40 years ago, banking, health care, it's all molasses bs."Dec 09 08:38
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/MarkKen20510303/status/1203649649061629952Dec 09 08:40
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@MarkKen20510303: @schestowitz None of these transmitters come close to the power of our nearby EM radiation source, the sun. Worry… https://t.co/XWheESvqOnDec 09 08:40
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@MarkKen20510303: @schestowitz None of these transmitters come close to the power of our nearby EM radiation source, the sun. Worry… https://t.co/XWheESvqOnDec 09 08:40
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:40
schestowitzNone of these transmitters come close to the power of our nearby EM radiation source, the sun.  Dec 09 08:40
schestowitzWorry about global warming, ozone layer. They are existentially damaging.Dec 09 08:40
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:40
schestowitzOne can worry about both, but anyway, I  am more concerned about social effects (privacy, addition etc.) of celltower cultureDec 09 08:41
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/marianico123/status/1203622141691908096Dec 09 08:43
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@marianico123: @schestowitz hace tiempo que lo he visto en documentales serios , que todavia alguno ponen en tvDec 09 08:43
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jhamby/status/1203956665764024320Dec 09 08:46
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: True, but private citizens are in danger of this kind of prosecution if we upset the US government where “technolog… https://t.co/lWrSRXlUbeDec 09 08:46
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: True, but private citizens are in danger of this kind of prosecution if we upset the US government where “technolog… https://t.co/lWrSRXlUbeDec 09 08:46
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:46
schestowitzTrue, but private citizens are in danger of this kind of prosecution if we upset the US government where “technology transfer” (of ways to evade sanctions) to an aspiring nuclear power is concerned. It was foolish of this guy to go to #DPRK in person. Was his aim to be arrested?Dec 09 08:46
schestowitzQuote TweetDec 09 08:46
schestowitz"Dec 09 08:46
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jhamby/status/1203955334450049026Dec 09 08:48
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: This is just now rolling out, so I wouldn’t say #Linux is “inside a lot of cars” just yet, but this is definitely w… https://t.co/hg7czQxTnqDec 09 08:48
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jhamby: This is just now rolling out, so I wouldn’t say #Linux is “inside a lot of cars” just yet, but this is definitely w… https://t.co/hg7czQxTnqDec 09 08:48
schestowitz"This is just now rolling out, so I wouldn’t say #Linux is “inside a lot of cars” just yet, but this is definitely worth watching. I’m guessing the instrument cluster and entertainment functions are easier to certify than engine management or any other safety-critical functions."Dec 09 08:48
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Omnifarious0/status/1203955996806090752Dec 09 09:00
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@Omnifarious0: The person who runs this site can be a little shrill and paranoid at times, but this article is spot on. WSL is not… https://t.co/kwXCVO19f6Dec 09 09:00
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@Omnifarious0: The person who runs this site can be a little shrill and paranoid at times, but this article is spot on. WSL is not… https://t.co/kwXCVO19f6Dec 09 09:00
schestowitz"The person who runs this site can be a little shrill and paranoid at times, but this article is spot on. WSL is not Linux in any way shape or form. Using it hurts Libre Software."Dec 09 09:00
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pmHNcY2fxASQ22CvoDec 09 10:30
schestowitzWe know, we are the one of the firdt who broke that story and push startpage to answer the questions."Dec 09 10:30
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 10:30
schestowitz"We know, we are the one of the firdt who broke that story and push startpage to answer the questions."Dec 09 10:30
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jsalsman/status/1203983607808720896Dec 09 10:52
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@jsalsman: @schestowitz When do we get the dual-screen chromebooks and pixelpads? https://t.co/PtMA3V3o6iDec 09 10:52
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell--> www.youtube.com | Created with ZenBook Pro Duo - Testimonial | ASUS - YouTubeDec 09 10:52
schestowitzuse external? Cheaper.Dec 09 10:52
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schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/DrStrom66/status/1204078610677731336Dec 09 17:06
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TechrightsBNHello World! I'm TechrightsBN running phIRCe v0.75Dec 09 17:06
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/DrStrom66/status/1204078610677731336Dec 09 17:06
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@DrStrom66: Fake news that @Microsoft loves @ubuntu. Here is why : https://t.co/Y6q3cWnLP3Dec 09 17:06
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell--> techrights.org | You Know WSL is Bad for GNU/Linux Because Anti-Linux People, Microsoft and Its Propagandists, Want People to Use That | TechrightsDec 09 17:06
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/zoobab/status/1204093807756742658Dec 09 17:59
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@zoobab: @schestowitz It conflicts with their goal number 1.Dec 09 17:59
schestowitzWell, @Canonical is losing money and would do anything for Microsoft if that means quick cash (e.g. Azure). Also, back in around 2009 they hired from Microsoft to MANAGE Ubuntu desktop, so it's not a new problem...Dec 09 18:00
schestowitz"Microsoft is asking people to pay them for patents, but they won’t say which ones. If a guy walks into a shop and says: “It’s an unsafe neighbourhood, why don’t you pay me 20 bucks and I’ll make sure you’re okay,” that’s illegal. It’s racketeering." -Mark Shuttleworth, CanonicalDec 09 18:01
schestowitz"That’s extortion and we should call it what it is. To say, as Ballmer did, that there is undisclosed balance sheet liability, that’s just extortion and we should refuse to get drawn into that game.” --Mark Shuttleworth, Canonical founder and CEODec 09 18:02
schestowitzhttps://pleroma.site/notice/9pnW8BPYypduNm7pmiDec 09 19:48
schestowitz"Why is that different than #chess or #go, for instance?"Dec 09 19:48
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-pleroma.site | PleromaDec 09 19:48
schestowitzThose too should be excludedDec 09 19:48
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