Join us now at the IRC channel.
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: RISC-V gains new performance leader with Alibaba’s 16-core XT 910 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126487 [https://pleroma.site/objects/22ba591d-13c1-4e4d-9c95-c5199527721f] | Aug 01 03:50 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126490 [https://pleroma.site/objects/472f5855-9c43-44a5-b01f-aed91b6b9c4d] | Aug 01 10:31 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Towertale, Steam, Gunslugs:Rogue Tactics, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126491 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b7744523-b5cf-47f5-b253-78bb3ca5745b] | Aug 01 11:16 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Secret to a Secure #Multicloud Enterprise Is Open Source http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126492 [https://pleroma.site/objects/04f750a7-7ba0-48ef-93bf-d20560259098] | Aug 01 11:33 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open Cloud Summit Shows Microsoft and the Linux Foundation Organising Events Together (as Full Partners, in Tandem) http://techrights.org/2019/08/01/winux-foundation-born/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/d82d3efc-03a8-46ef-97d4-a19e3b0791eb] | Aug 01 11:51 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126493 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6d30464a-b05d-4aab-af9d-119b7e548e22] | Aug 01 12:04 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora Flock Coverage (From Fedora Project) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126494 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e0891ee5-a659-4250-9af8-3e3e78230ea6] | Aug 01 12:11 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Daniel Pocock: Mollamby, Conflicts of Interest vs Privacy http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126495 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8756a4c0-5859-4d47-ab6c-f0b3569999f4] | Aug 01 12:20 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: On self-hosting the project http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126497 [https://pleroma.site/objects/795876c2-aea3-4c96-9795-51301d9fba3f] | Aug 01 13:18 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian: Developers' Updates and Sparky News http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126498 [https://pleroma.site/objects/46229f8d-74dc-42e7-afde-10d3f4109a0d] | Aug 01 13:23 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126499 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8ae2977f-ef12-41de-80ea-30123f4a59ea] | Aug 01 13:40 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Xfce 4.14pre3 released! http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126501 [https://pleroma.site/objects/36f8addc-b908-438b-ad42-12c0cb0a37ea] | Aug 01 13:59 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mesa, ImageMagick, Plasma, Frameworks Update in Tumbleweed http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126502 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7f290594-fc0b-4103-8106-284a9e48a042] | Aug 01 14:01 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Events: Linux Application Summit, Ubucon Europe, foss-north, DebCamp/DebConf and Agile On The Beach http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126503 [https://pleroma.site/objects/bd6b3fa9-1074-4bc7-94f6-90ced7c88d6a] | Aug 01 14:11 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNOME: Performance and Sysprof http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126504 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4c682eb7-a5f2-49a3-aa53-687982a0bbfb] | Aug 01 14:15 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kernel: Intel Drivers, LWN Articles and Steam Proposes Linux Kernel Changes to Improve Multi-Threaded Games http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126505 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b6536411-1e15-4fa4-aa3e-578ff1c0029f] | Aug 01 14:28 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software: crashstats-tools, curl, hydrapaper and more http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126506 [https://pleroma.site/objects/be8456db-3ce8-46b6-8e78-463086952ec1] | Aug 01 14:33 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126507 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a1043dd6-a253-49fd-9e69-fc9640f7fc60] | Aug 01 14:47 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla and Programming Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126508 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b5059623-fbc5-4257-a705-3e50481ecc72] | Aug 01 15:11 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: SUSE and IBM/Red Hat Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126509 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8d6ed8cb-f6d4-4f49-af41-65df4edad991] | Aug 01 15:15 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 1/8/2019: Xfce 4.14 Coming Soon, Flock Reports http://techrights.org/2019/08/01/flock-reports/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/1108d8c2-7293-465d-bfe2-3fd6c2d6ea06] | Aug 01 15:29 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: What Happens When The US Government Tries To Take On The Open Source Community? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126512 [https://pleroma.site/objects/487c4b2b-29c3-47d0-88cc-8f71fbd82583] | Aug 01 15:38 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Arm expands Pelion IoT platform http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126513 [https://pleroma.site/objects/31793ade-2293-4003-849d-667d00eba086] | Aug 01 15:52 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: VICCP, Brigador, Wind Runners, Total War: THREE KINGDOMS, Blessed Surface, Pegasus Frontend, Boxtron, Don't Starve Together http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126514 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3e54e4ed-3b03-48eb-b144-cfbc62f74dae] | Aug 01 17:06 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Dynamic Wallpaper Editor – Desktop Slideshow Creator for Gnome http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126516 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f154aa33-173c-4266-b578-695bf83a878b] | Aug 01 17:31 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 3.5-inch SBC runs Linux or Android on i.MX8M http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126515 [https://pleroma.site/objects/53163098-b9e2-47ec-9311-ae1c1570d19c] | Aug 01 17:34 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126517 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e18ebb41-d428-425d-9faa-74e2ecf00e9e] | Aug 01 17:36 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE: Igor Ljubuncic Reviews Kubuntu, KDE's Trusted IT Consulting Firms and Krita Videos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126518 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a474a9b7-2b7f-45e1-985f-d56eae077bb1] | Aug 01 17:50 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Top 50 Most Asked Linux Interview Questions & Answers in 2019 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126519 [https://pleroma.site/objects/83442d14-b3f9-44e7-83eb-ea4674b389c9] | Aug 01 17:53 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: The 'DevOps' Buzzword, Glibc 2.30 Released, Django Security Releases and Interview With GitLab's CEO http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126521 [https://pleroma.site/objects/643af268-0e95-44a9-9244-fe02f3fbfb7c] | Aug 01 17:57 | |
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| ---MinceR gives voice to rianne izzyy mmu_man oiaohm | Aug 01 19:40 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Events: KDE Connect, LibreOffice Asia Conference, USENIX ATC 2019 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126524 [https://pleroma.site/objects/59e2a2ca-b705-48ce-abe2-a7317ed53db1] | Aug 01 19:42 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: First Arch Linux ISO Powered by Linux Kernel 5.2 Is Now Available to Download http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126525 [https://pleroma.site/objects/47e9705b-b365-49ca-ace8-629f231ca73f] | Aug 01 20:00 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Canonical Releases Linux 5.0 Kernel (HWE) Security Update for Ubuntu 18.04.2 LTS http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126526 [https://pleroma.site/objects/17f68a7a-dca7-4ec9-a93d-90479b7e4da3] | Aug 01 20:03 | |
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| MinceR | https://i.imgur.com/sKO1A0N.jpg | Aug 01 20:20 |
|---|---|---|
| ---MinceR gives voice to aindilis | Aug 01 20:20 | |
| XRevan86 | Is this a good time for https://youtu.be/X8Nc8RCLy1s?t=85 ? | Aug 01 20:24 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-He Man sings 4 Non Blondes (Original) - YouTube | Aug 01 20:24 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat/IBM: EPEL, Ceph, OpenShift and Call for Code Challenge, http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/126527 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5415f794-7113-4f14-afd2-8e8a75605676] | Aug 01 20:25 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: unsanitary, germs there | Aug 01 20:26 |
| MinceR | in bed? | Aug 01 20:27 |
| schestowitz | crumbs and everything | Aug 01 20:28 |
| schestowitz | in the linen | Aug 01 20:28 |
| MinceR | he doesn't have to eat it there, he just had to ask for it there | Aug 01 20:37 |
| MinceR | (cat) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2019/06/03/a771d1fcc2bb1b6a.mp4 | Aug 01 20:58 |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/19070864 | Aug 01 21:10 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Aug 01 21:10 | |
| XRevan86 | gargron, kaniini: I'll be back. | Aug 01 21:15 |
| schestowitz | that's what he said | Aug 01 21:15 |
| MinceR | that's what the T-800 said | Aug 01 21:16 |
| schestowitz | He had a thing for Sarah Connor | Aug 01 21:16 |
| MinceR | yeah, execution | Aug 01 21:17 |
| MinceR | or rather, assassination | Aug 01 21:17 |
| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2019/07/22/db94863a6036ba56.jpg | Aug 01 21:39 |
| XRevan86 | Well, at least I informed lain about the ActivityPub plug-in being in the works. I hope that will postpone the removal of OStatus from Pleroma until autumn. | Aug 01 21:40 |
| oiaohm | https://lwn.net/Articles/795116/ This could be good or bad news. | Aug 01 21:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GNOME and KDE to co-host the Linux App Summit in November [LWN.net] | Aug 01 21:40 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: I don't get it. | Aug 01 21:40 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Is it a joke if what happens is exactly what's expected? | Aug 01 21:41 |
| XRevan86 | "how would that even work?" "oh wait, it doesn't, okay" | Aug 01 21:41 |
| MinceR | reference to the Bane arc | Aug 01 21:42 |
| MinceR | i guess KDE will help GNOME until the gnome people decide kde has outlived its usefulness and kill it off | Aug 01 21:59 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: KDE and Gnome projects have attempted to kill each other many times over. The sound server war was about the worst. esound vs artsd. | Aug 01 22:00 |
| MinceR | they still behaved better than poetteringaudio, so, naturally, they had to go | Aug 01 22:01 |
| oiaohm | That not true. | Aug 01 22:01 |
| oiaohm | artsd and esound had major failures | Aug 01 22:01 |
| oiaohm | people were force gnome and kde back to pure alsa if they could in the middle of it. | Aug 01 22:02 |
| MinceR | yeah, they failed to break dmix :> | Aug 01 22:02 |
| oiaohm | artsd and esound use to crash horriblely. | Aug 01 22:02 |
| oiaohm | Mostly due to broken kernel drivers in Alsa doing stuff different to documentation for alsa driver development. | Aug 01 22:03 |
| MinceR | >KDE and Gnome projects have attempted to kill each other many times over. | Aug 01 22:03 |
| MinceR | with version 5, KDE capitulated to Gnome OS | Aug 01 22:03 |
| MinceR | they push cancerd | Aug 01 22:03 |
| oiaohm | The crap that pulseaudio development in fact got fixed up kernel alsa drivers was massive. | Aug 01 22:04 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: where did KDE capitulate to gnome OS. If you are saying systemd I think you need to look again. | Aug 01 22:05 |
| MinceR | yay, the API you're no longer allowed to use has been fixed! | Aug 01 22:05 |
| MinceR | here >> https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=15/02/20/101235 | Aug 01 22:05 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-soylentnews.org | KDE Will Depend on 'logind' and 'timedated' in 6 Months - SoylentNews | Aug 01 22:05 | |
| oiaohm | wine project still runs it alsa driver on top of pulseaudio from time to make sure they have not broken backwards compadiblity. | Aug 01 22:05 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: that was after BSD developers provide BSD versions of logind and timedated | Aug 01 22:06 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: so no that is not systemd dependant. | Aug 01 22:06 |
| MinceR | it is merely dependent on cancerd brain damage | Aug 01 22:07 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: have you not heard of systembsd | Aug 01 22:09 |
| MinceR | i have, unfortunately | Aug 01 22:10 |
| oiaohm | If you are running consolekit2 you also get logind and timedated replacements. | Aug 01 22:11 |
| MinceR | i'll get rid of that shit | Aug 01 22:11 |
| oiaohm | Basically anything maintained should have those 2 services. | Aug 01 22:11 |
| MinceR | no, it should not | Aug 01 22:11 |
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| MinceR | none of this bullshit can turn a bad idea into a good idea | Aug 01 22:12 |
| oiaohm | Don't give me no it should not. The reality is anything maintained in the Linux world will. | Aug 01 22:12 |
| MinceR | then "Linux" will turn into winblows, i will abandon it and eventually almost everyone will abandon it | Aug 01 22:13 |
| oiaohm | So so using those is not a dependancy on systemd. | Aug 01 22:13 |
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| MinceR | and then people like you will try to turn whatever we moved on to into yet another windows | Aug 01 22:13 |
| MinceR | because you don't learn, ever | Aug 01 22:13 |
| oiaohm | logind was in fact designd for consolekit before systemd was even an idea. | Aug 01 22:13 |
| MinceR | "designed" is a strong word for that shit | Aug 01 22:13 |
| oiaohm | It was in fact designed. | Aug 01 22:13 |
| oiaohm | and planned for most of it functionality. | Aug 01 22:13 |
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| oiaohm | One of the few parts of systemd that does have a formal design. | Aug 01 22:14 |
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| oiaohm | Yet here is MinceR being a idiot complaining about it. | Aug 01 22:14 |
| ---MinceR gives voice to n003l | Aug 01 22:14 | |
| MinceR | ah, you have no arguments so you start slinging shit | Aug 01 22:14 |
| MinceR | you can't even explain why it's built on top of that train wreck known as dbugs | Aug 01 22:15 |
| oiaohm | That is what you have been doing. | Aug 01 22:15 |
| MinceR | which you have to reboot to restart, and yet they expect you to run it on servers and workstations | Aug 01 22:15 |
| oiaohm | I can expain why it on top of dbus. | Aug 01 22:15 |
| oiaohm | And I have in the past. | Aug 01 22:15 |
| MinceR | "NO U" | Aug 01 22:15 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: simple question find me an application to application IPC in Linux that works. | Aug 01 22:15 |
| MinceR | i guess the cult of Gnome OS has a hardon for rebooting | Aug 01 22:15 |
| MinceR | like winblows fanboys | Aug 01 22:16 |
| oiaohm | NO | Aug 01 22:16 |
| oiaohm | Answer quedstion | Aug 01 22:16 |
| MinceR | unix domain sockets | Aug 01 22:16 |
| MinceR | TCP | Aug 01 22:16 |
| MinceR | TIPC | Aug 01 22:16 |
| oiaohm | domain sockets does not work in all cases. | Aug 01 22:16 |
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| oiaohm | TCP network exposed. | Aug 01 22:16 |
| MinceR | TCP over lo is not exposed to the network | Aug 01 22:16 |
| oiaohm | network exposed means you cannot always id source of request. | Aug 01 22:18 |
| oiaohm | TCP is not a full option. | Aug 01 22:18 |
| MinceR | communication with loopback addresses is not routed | Aug 01 22:18 |
| oiaohm | TIPC has it weakness as well. | Aug 01 22:18 |
| oiaohm | communication with loopback can be routed in fact by firewall rules. Also you don't have clean track of what process request what for security stuff. | Aug 01 22:19 |
| MinceR | at least they're reliable enough for use on servers and workstations | Aug 01 22:19 |
| MinceR | who controls firewall rules? | Aug 01 22:20 |
| MinceR | "it rather involved being on the other side of this airtight hatchway" | Aug 01 22:21 |
| oiaohm | dcop and dbus come about because for workstations there are many cases where the options don't work. | Aug 01 22:22 |
| oiaohm | and it not like we could use the signal system safely either. | Aug 01 22:22 |
| MinceR | dcop was designed for a desktop environment | Aug 01 22:22 |
| MinceR | it quit with the end of the session | Aug 01 22:22 |
| oiaohm | workstations are desktops. | Aug 01 22:22 |
| MinceR | the "designers" of dbugs should have thought about porting that concept to a broader context | Aug 01 22:22 |
| oiaohm | dcop did not always stop at end of session either there was a system wide option kde when it appeared. | Aug 01 22:22 |
| MinceR | dcop was literally a part of kde | Aug 01 22:23 |
| MinceR | (it was also a lot more reliable and usable than dbugs, btw) | Aug 01 22:23 |
| oiaohm | systemctl will in fact control systemd with dbus disabled. | Aug 01 22:23 |
| MinceR | the systemd-datetimed and systemd-hostnamed bullshit APIs won't work without dbugs | Aug 01 22:24 |
| MinceR | so upgrading dbugs will break clients using them | Aug 01 22:24 |
| oiaohm | Really what IPC would you implement those features on. | Aug 01 22:25 |
| MinceR | i wouldn't use IPC for them at all | Aug 01 22:25 |
| MinceR | standard Unix commands worked fine | Aug 01 22:25 |
| oiaohm | So you want use to lift privialage and not be able to do it as part of graphical. | Aug 01 22:25 |
| MinceR | that would be fine for what those do | Aug 01 22:26 |
| MinceR | also if it is desired, frontends could be implemented for DEs without forcing them on everyone | Aug 01 22:26 |
| oiaohm | datetimed and hostnamed does not block you from using command line where it suite | Aug 01 22:26 |
| MinceR | possibly even based on a non-shit IPC | Aug 01 22:26 |
| MinceR | yeah, as long as your bosses graciously allow us to use command line | Aug 01 22:26 |
| MinceR | praise them for their lenience | Aug 01 22:27 |
| oiaohm | First time hostname and datetime was done over a desktop IPC was in dcop with kde. | Aug 01 22:27 |
| MinceR | at least nothing expect dcop to keep running forever | Aug 01 22:27 |
| MinceR | s/ct/cts/ | Aug 01 22:27 |
| oiaohm | All those two are is unification so gnome and kde and other don't keep on reimplementing them with different levels of breakages. | Aug 01 22:27 |
| MinceR | also, dcop doesn't force you to type in the same domain path 3 times, in 2 formats, just to send a message | Aug 01 22:28 |
| MinceR | and kdcop doesn't shit itself all the time, unlike d-feet | Aug 01 22:28 |
| MinceR | so it can be actually used to discover what calls are possible | Aug 01 22:28 |
| oiaohm | dcop did explode a lot of times. | Aug 01 22:28 |
| MinceR | it never exploded for me | Aug 01 22:28 |
| MinceR | even though it probably wouldn't have harmed anything if it did | Aug 01 22:28 |
| MinceR | unlike dbugs | Aug 01 22:28 |
| oiaohm | both dbus and dcop are working on top of kernel API that had issues. | Aug 01 22:28 |
| MinceR | i'm sure your idols will fix those APIs | Aug 01 22:29 |
| MinceR | just like they fixed cgroups | Aug 01 22:29 |
| MinceR | oh wait | Aug 01 22:29 |
| oiaohm | Implement on dbus I can understand. Not working to fix the lower level stuff that was horrible. | Aug 01 22:29 |
| MinceR | of course you can | Aug 01 22:29 |
| oiaohm | cgroups fixed some problems. | Aug 01 22:29 |
| MinceR | anything poettering and his fans do is perfect by definition | Aug 01 22:29 |
| MinceR | and caused some others | Aug 01 22:30 |
| MinceR | but who's counting | Aug 01 22:30 |
| oiaohm | Not perfect. | Aug 01 22:30 |
| MinceR | nevertheless, they will behave as if it was | Aug 01 22:30 |
| MinceR | fixed in place forever, engraved in more and more cancerd APIs | Aug 01 22:30 |
| MinceR | with a mountain of gratuitous dependencies on top | Aug 01 22:30 |
| oiaohm | I don't beleve pulseaudio or systemd was perfect but both have worked out kernel API properly and resulted in a lot of kernel level fixes that need to be done. | Aug 01 22:31 |
| MinceR | too bad they only killed most of the distributions using that kernel | Aug 01 22:31 |
| MinceR | in a few decades almost nobody will use it, but hey, at least some bugs will be fixed | Aug 01 22:31 |
| MinceR | and judging by gkh's attitude regarding kdbus, i doubt that anything will ever get fixed in the kernel, actually | Aug 01 22:32 |
| oiaohm | I do hope in a few decades systemd is history. | Aug 01 22:32 |
| MinceR | along with Linux | Aug 01 22:32 |
| MinceR | and then microsoft will try to take over whichever BSD wins | Aug 01 22:32 |
| oiaohm | https://github.com/bus1/dbus-broker/wiki/Deviations kdbus lead to this work. | Aug 01 22:32 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Deviations · bus1/dbus-broker Wiki · GitHub | Aug 01 22:32 | |
| MinceR | unless we kill the bastards | Aug 01 22:32 |
| MinceR | yeah, it also lead to the compromise of the Linux development method | Aug 01 22:33 |
| oiaohm | This has resulted in some of the kernel level IPC being fixed. | Aug 01 22:33 |
| MinceR | and if it were up to gkh, there would be no bus1 | Aug 01 22:33 |
| MinceR | only kdbus. | Aug 01 22:33 |
| oiaohm | kdbus failed then dbus-broker takes a different route. | Aug 01 22:33 |
| MinceR | and since Linus is out of the way, it is only up to gkh now. | Aug 01 22:33 |
| oiaohm | and find other IPC functions in the Linux kernel broken and get those fixed. | Aug 01 22:33 |
| MinceR | the next horrible piece of shit like kdbus _will_ get merged. | Aug 01 22:33 |
| MinceR | without critique or question or QA. | Aug 01 22:34 |
| oiaohm | gkh is style would mean kdbus would not have got merged long term here. | Aug 01 22:34 |
| MinceR | and if anyone raises their way, the SJW army will turn them into unemployed outcasts | Aug 01 22:34 |
| MinceR | so enjoy your dead kernel while you still can. | Aug 01 22:34 |
| MinceR | s/way/voice/ | Aug 01 22:34 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel development has been broken for over 20 years. | Aug 01 22:34 |
| MinceR | and now it will be dead | Aug 01 22:35 |
| MinceR | i just hope the surviving free software projects will finally learn their lessons | Aug 01 22:35 |
| MinceR | about SJWs and corporate influence | Aug 01 22:35 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: really SJW bullshit | Aug 01 22:35 |
| MinceR | yes they are | Aug 01 22:35 |
| oiaohm | I see you don't have a valid point | Aug 01 22:35 |
| MinceR | but people still listen to them | Aug 01 22:35 |
| MinceR | Linux still has a CoC | Aug 01 22:35 |
| oiaohm | You do this ever time I point you to the IPC problem | Aug 01 22:35 |
| MinceR | you don't see the connections, do you? | Aug 01 22:36 |
| oiaohm | Stop the SJW shit and give me a iPC that works for the Linux desktop. | Aug 01 22:36 |
| MinceR | you only see the bullet points on the dbugs brochure | Aug 01 22:36 |
| oiaohm | NO | Aug 01 22:36 |
| oiaohm | Stop | Aug 01 22:36 |
| oiaohm | answer | Aug 01 22:36 |
| MinceR | "we've got to have these features AT ALL COSTS" | Aug 01 22:36 |
| oiaohm | Stop | Aug 01 22:36 |
| oiaohm | anwer | Aug 01 22:36 |
| MinceR | i gave you 3 | Aug 01 22:36 |
| MinceR | i'm pretty sure there are more | Aug 01 22:36 |
| oiaohm | No where is the iPC | Aug 01 22:36 |
| oiaohm | You asked why dbus | Aug 01 22:36 |
| MinceR | and as an added bonus, your beloved dbugs still depends on unix domain sockets, afaik | Aug 01 22:36 |
| oiaohm | the answer is there is no better choice at the moment. | Aug 01 22:37 |
| MinceR | yes there is | Aug 01 22:37 |
| oiaohm | No | Aug 01 22:37 |
| MinceR | even the dbugs concept could have been designed and implemented better | Aug 01 22:37 |
| oiaohm | You have not provided one. | Aug 01 22:37 |
| oiaohm | So you don't have one | Aug 01 22:37 |
| MinceR | they just couldn't be arsed to back when they could | Aug 01 22:37 |
| MinceR | there are tons of IPC mechanisms in Unix, and further ones can be built on top of them | Aug 01 22:38 |
| oiaohm | dbus broker shows clearly dbus-deamon is mega broken. | Aug 01 22:38 |
| oiaohm | Reality is the Linux kernel most of the iPC has been broken implemented. | Aug 01 22:38 |
| MinceR | i'd say dbugs is overengineered, if i believed it was engineered at all | Aug 01 22:38 |
| oiaohm | overengineered attempt to work around kernel level defects they were not fixing is dbus-deamon. | Aug 01 22:39 |
| MinceR | but using their CLI once should make it clear that it wasn't | Aug 01 22:39 |
| oiaohm | CLI and deamon two different development teams. | Aug 01 22:39 |
| MinceR | who cares? | Aug 01 22:39 |
| MinceR | the latter came up with kdbus | Aug 01 22:40 |
| MinceR | so they're about as incompetent as they come | Aug 01 22:40 |
| oiaohm | kdbus does not come from the team that made dbus-deamon. | Aug 01 22:40 |
| oiaohm | We have 3 different dbus | Aug 01 22:40 |
| MinceR | you don't like the performance of your software, what do you do, profile it? fuck no, just throw it in the kernel! | Aug 01 22:40 |
| oiaohm | dbus-deamon. kdbus and dbus-broker. | Aug 01 22:40 |
| oiaohm | kdbus and dbus-broker come out the same development team. | Aug 01 22:41 |
| MinceR | and the issue popped up when they were using messages over 512kB | Aug 01 22:41 |
| MinceR | wtf were they even doing? | Aug 01 22:41 |
| oiaohm | What happens one someone miss read code notes. | Aug 01 22:41 |
| MinceR | i've never met Miss Read Code Notes | Aug 01 22:42 |
| MinceR | is she nice? | Aug 01 22:42 |
| oiaohm | dbus-deamon comments had note after note about kernel faults causing horrible works arounds. | Aug 01 22:42 |
| oiaohm | So kdbus developer took that as if we move the code into kernel we will be able to fix things. | Aug 01 22:42 |
| MinceR | http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1504.3/02040.html | Aug 01 22:43 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lkml.iu.edu | Linux-Kernel Archive: Re: [GIT PULL] kdbus for 4.1-rc1 | Aug 01 22:43 | |
| oiaohm | dbus-broker they did end up fixing ipc stuff in kernel space. | Aug 01 22:43 |
| MinceR | see, i don't want that sort of developer writing code in the kernel i'm running | Aug 01 22:43 |
| oiaohm | as well as keeping most stuff still in userspace. | Aug 01 22:43 |
| MinceR | and i don't want the sort of person who happily supports this to be in charge of the kernel i'm running either | Aug 01 22:43 |
| MinceR | and this naturally leads to the question of why is Linus not in charge anymore | Aug 01 22:44 |
| MinceR | the only sane person in the management of the project, apparently | Aug 01 22:44 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: notice how there is a lot of locks in what Linus profiled. | Aug 01 22:44 |
| MinceR | whose job is it to notice locks? | Aug 01 22:44 |
| MinceR | in userland code, i mean | Aug 01 22:45 |
| oiaohm | Lot of those locks were preventing running into Linux kernel bugs. | Aug 01 22:45 |
| MinceR | specifically, in dbugs | Aug 01 22:45 |
| MinceR | and the solution to kernel locks is "just throw it in the kernel, like on NT"? | Aug 01 22:45 |
| oiaohm | So after kdbus there was a lot of Linux kernel patchs in different areas fixing up bugs that have been locked protected over. | Aug 01 22:45 |
| MinceR | just shovel the whole thing into kernel | Aug 01 22:45 |
| MinceR | preferably so that it also can't be swapped out | Aug 01 22:46 |
| oiaohm | I agree that was kind of the wrong move. | Aug 01 22:46 |
| MinceR | and then make everything depend on it | Aug 01 22:46 |
| MinceR | including pid1 | Aug 01 22:46 |
| oiaohm | But there were problems kernel side that had been ignored. | Aug 01 22:46 |
| MinceR | this is a development model problem that is being ignored | Aug 01 22:46 |
| oiaohm | pid1 of system is option to use dbus. | Aug 01 22:46 |
| MinceR | and a personnel problem that is also being ignored | Aug 01 22:46 |
| MinceR | yeah, i want such optional parts in my pid1 | Aug 01 22:46 |
| oiaohm | Remember it has to start dbus so it has to work before dbus is up. | Aug 01 22:46 |
| MinceR | the more code there is, the easier it is to make the kernel panic with a crash | Aug 01 22:46 |
| MinceR | well, they had a "solution" for that too | Aug 01 22:47 |
| MinceR | they announced that systemd will depend on kdbus | Aug 01 22:47 |
| oiaohm | Embedded commonly use systemd without dbus at all. | Aug 01 22:47 |
| MinceR | properly designed embedded doesn't use systemd nor dbugs | Aug 01 22:47 |
| MinceR | and if things keep going this way, it soon also won't use Linux | Aug 01 22:47 |
| oiaohm | systemd containers and watchdogs work great in embedded. | Aug 01 22:48 |
| MinceR | yeah, we "embedded" a supercomputer | Aug 01 22:48 |
| oiaohm | Of course you don't want to admit systemd has some good features. | Aug 01 22:48 |
| MinceR | so we could afford the CPU time and RAM of running all that poetteringware | Aug 01 22:48 |
| MinceR | i want to admit it, but it just isn't true | Aug 01 22:48 |
| MinceR | so i can't | Aug 01 22:48 |
| MinceR | they work like microsoft | Aug 01 22:48 |
| MinceR | they fuck up everything they ever do | Aug 01 22:49 |
| MinceR | maybe you could get them to stop? | Aug 01 22:49 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft does not provide working watchdogs or containser around services. | Aug 01 22:49 |
| MinceR | indeed | Aug 01 22:49 |
| MinceR | neither does Gnome OS | Aug 01 22:49 |
| oiaohm | So I never get why you compare systemd to windows. | Aug 01 22:49 |
| MinceR | but apparently there are plenty of people for whom "working" is not a requirement | Aug 01 22:49 |
| oiaohm | Feature wise they don't line up at all. | Aug 01 22:49 |
| MinceR | they're both the same sort of inflexible, fascist, bloated shit that's designed to take away all freedoms of the user | Aug 01 22:50 |
| MinceR | they're pushed with similar political tricks | Aug 01 22:50 |
| oiaohm | NO | Aug 01 22:50 |
| MinceR | they both act as if processes were stupid expensive | Aug 01 22:50 |
| MinceR | only they really are on NT | Aug 01 22:50 |
| MinceR | and they aren't (yet) on Linux | Aug 01 22:50 |
| oiaohm | NO | Aug 01 22:50 |
| MinceR | louder! | Aug 01 22:50 |
| oiaohm | Everything in PID1 is iPC issues. | Aug 01 22:51 |
| MinceR | sure it is | Aug 01 22:51 |
| MinceR | like mounting filesystems | Aug 01 22:51 |
| MinceR | or setting hostname | Aug 01 22:51 |
| oiaohm | mounting file systems is not done by PID1 in system | Aug 01 22:51 |
| MinceR | or running timed jobs | Aug 01 22:51 |
| oiaohm | neither is setting hostname | Aug 01 22:51 |
| oiaohm | again no | Aug 01 22:51 |
| oiaohm | come on when are you going to get one right. | Aug 01 22:51 |
| MinceR | IPC doesn't even belong in PID1 | Aug 01 22:51 |
| MinceR | look up what the two things pid1 is supposed to do on Unix, i'll wait | Aug 01 22:52 |
| oiaohm | Hang on sysvinit uses signals for IPC. | Aug 01 22:52 |
| oiaohm | to PID1. | Aug 01 22:52 |
| MinceR | yeah, sysvinit already does too much | Aug 01 22:52 |
| MinceR | so, obviously, the microsoftoid "solution" is to do even more | Aug 01 22:52 |
| oiaohm | So sorry PID1 in a lot of cases does have IPC. | Aug 01 22:52 |
| MinceR | i didn't say it didn't have IPC | Aug 01 22:52 |
| oiaohm | Again | Aug 01 22:52 |
| MinceR | i said it didn't belong there | Aug 01 22:52 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft | Aug 01 22:53 |
| MinceR | see the difference? | Aug 01 22:53 |
| oiaohm | systemd was not model after Microsoft | Aug 01 22:53 |
| MinceR | sure it was | Aug 01 22:53 |
| oiaohm | No | Aug 01 22:53 |
| MinceR | not many OSes do binary logging, for example | Aug 01 22:53 |
| oiaohm | lanchd and smf is what system was model after. | Aug 01 22:53 |
| oiaohm | solaris has binary logging. | Aug 01 22:53 |
| MinceR | not many OSes have tricks intended to attack competitors built into them either | Aug 01 22:53 |
| oiaohm | Solaris, OS X | Aug 01 22:54 |
| oiaohm | as well | Aug 01 22:54 |
| oiaohm | Try again | Aug 01 22:54 |
| MinceR | yeah, but SMF and even launchd isn't trying to do as many things in one process as cancerd is | Aug 01 22:54 |
| MinceR | windows is. | Aug 01 22:54 |
| oiaohm | SMF did | Aug 01 22:54 |
| oiaohm | First version | Aug 01 22:54 |
| MinceR | some versions of SMF don't even run as pid1 | Aug 01 22:54 |
| oiaohm | Yes first version SMF run everything including network time in PID1. | Aug 01 22:54 |
| MinceR | they rely on sysvinit to respawn them if they crash | Aug 01 22:54 |
| MinceR | like it respawns getty | Aug 01 22:55 |
| oiaohm | Later versions of SMF after IPC stuff worked moved out of pid1. | Aug 01 22:55 |
| oiaohm | Solaris had the same borken IPC stuff in kernel as Linux has. | Aug 01 22:55 |
| MinceR | yeah, slowlaris was broken in similar ways to winblows | Aug 01 22:55 |
| MinceR | even had the windowing system built into the kernel at some point | Aug 01 22:55 |
| MinceR | they're probably the worst OSes to ever exist | Aug 01 22:56 |
| oiaohm | slowlaris comparing systemd makes sense. | Aug 01 22:56 |
| MinceR | naturally, cancerd has to copy them | Aug 01 22:56 |
| MinceR | VMS is also one of the worst OSes to ever exist, but NT is its successor | Aug 01 22:56 |
| oiaohm | zones that solaris has is a line up to cgroups/namespaces. | Aug 01 22:56 |
| MinceR | do zones also fail to do what they're supposed to? | Aug 01 22:57 |
| oiaohm | Yes they did | Aug 01 22:57 |
| MinceR | do they still fail? | Aug 01 22:57 |
| oiaohm | zones had 4 rewrites before they worked. | Aug 01 22:57 |
| MinceR | see, windows still doesn't work | Aug 01 22:57 |
| oiaohm | In production releases. | Aug 01 22:57 |
| MinceR | and never will | Aug 01 22:57 |
| MinceR | there's a closer parallel to windows | Aug 01 22:57 |
| oiaohm | cgroup v2 in fact works | Aug 01 22:57 |
| MinceR | in fact, windows just keeps getting worse | Aug 01 22:57 |
| MinceR | oh, it does? | Aug 01 22:57 |
| oiaohm | pidfd fix was a fix solaris had todo. | Aug 01 22:57 |
| MinceR | so, can cancerd properly terminate the shell on shutdown now? | Aug 01 22:58 |
| oiaohm | as well to get SMF out PID1. | Aug 01 22:58 |
| oiaohm | solaris session kill did the same things as logind. | Aug 01 22:58 |
| oiaohm | smf session kill | Aug 01 22:58 |
| MinceR | that's fine, i'm not planning to use slowlaris anyway | Aug 01 22:58 |
| MinceR | it can make the hardware explode for all i care | Aug 01 22:59 |
| MinceR | it's not fit for use in production | Aug 01 22:59 |
| MinceR | just like macos, windows and systemd | Aug 01 22:59 |
| oiaohm | systemd is not a Microsoft copy. Its really a early SMF copy + lanchd stuff. | Aug 01 22:59 |
| MinceR | oh, and vms | Aug 01 22:59 |
| oiaohm | but with a kernel with faults that solaris kernel had fixed. | Aug 01 22:59 |
| oiaohm | So lot of horrible work arounds in systemd still until those are gone. | Aug 01 23:00 |
| oiaohm | At least systemd did not go the xml route for unit files as SMF did. | Aug 01 23:00 |
| MinceR | i think if poettering really had balls, he'd move everything into the kernel | Aug 01 23:00 |
| MinceR | like TempleOS | Aug 01 23:00 |
| oiaohm | poettering was not the one who was pushing to merge everything into the kernel. | Aug 01 23:01 |
| MinceR | right, it was some other part of the cult, at least nominally | Aug 01 23:01 |
| oiaohm | In fact his history has normally been wanting to keep stuff out of the kernel. | Aug 01 23:01 |
| MinceR | pay no attention to the relationship between kdbus and cancerd | Aug 01 23:01 |
| oiaohm | The one assigned to explore and fix up dbus went kernel mad. | Aug 01 23:02 |
| oiaohm | You can see poettering work with pulseaudio with test cases and the like to get alsa drivers fixed up. | Aug 01 23:02 |
| MinceR | funny approach to testing | Aug 01 23:02 |
| MinceR | test a few things, ignore most known issues, attack those who report issues | Aug 01 23:03 |
| oiaohm | poettering is more likely to make test cases for kernel to demo faults and get faults fixed in kernel without adding more code. his kernel work normally make kernel smaller. | Aug 01 23:03 |
| MinceR | maybe he has a vendetta against the kernel :> | Aug 01 23:03 |
| oiaohm | As a project maintainer he suxs. | Aug 01 23:03 |
| oiaohm | But as a developer of test suites he is good. | Aug 01 23:03 |
| MinceR | so why was he appointed the supreme architect of the OS? | Aug 01 23:04 |
| oiaohm | Basically he was in the line of people who were asked to do the job and he failed to send email saying no I would not. | Aug 01 23:05 |
| MinceR | that's a fantastic process for selecting managers | Aug 01 23:05 |
| MinceR | did red hat come up with it? | Aug 01 23:05 |
| oiaohm | Think the classic example of line of people some ask for some step forwards todo job and everyone steps backwards bar one. | Aug 01 23:05 |
| oiaohm | Serousally that is basically how he got the job. | Aug 01 23:06 |
| oiaohm | Not that he exactly wanted it. | Aug 01 23:06 |
| MinceR | sounds like GNU and Linux were doomed well before i saw any of it | Aug 01 23:06 |
| oiaohm | For how bad the selection process was for systemd lead I am quite supprised disruption has been as small. | Aug 01 23:07 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: as I have said systemd is a nightmare that had to happen to get a lot of kernel level faults fixed. | Aug 01 23:09 |
| MinceR | what use is fixing flaws in the kernel if the kernel gets killed and the userland gets killed? | Aug 01 23:09 |
| oiaohm | With out fixing the foundation ie the kernel the system was going to fail long term anyhow. | Aug 01 23:10 |
| MinceR | why do you people always have to not only throw out the baby with the bathwater but also ritually slaughter the whole extended family and nuke the neighborhood? | Aug 01 23:11 |
| oiaohm | Its been like the LSM stuff. we are now seeing cgroups/namespaces allow BPF filters for network at this stage invidiaully this will come for syscalls and the like. | Aug 01 23:11 |
| MinceR | i doubt i even use LSM | Aug 01 23:12 |
| MinceR | i don't use SELinux | Aug 01 23:12 |
| oiaohm | So applications will be able to ship with strong security settings without having to ship like 50 differenet LSM configurations. | Aug 01 23:12 |
| MinceR | where "strong security settings" means "tons of extra bloat with extra vulnerabilities lurking within" | Aug 01 23:12 |
| MinceR | that is if you're lucky | Aug 01 23:13 |
| MinceR | if you aren't, there are also some NSA backdoors in ther | Aug 01 23:13 |
| MinceR | e | Aug 01 23:13 |
| MinceR | the anti-hardened OS | Aug 01 23:13 |
| oiaohm | BPF filtering is quite well designed so far. | Aug 01 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Really its a funny historic throw back as well. | Aug 01 23:15 |
| <--n003l has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Aug 01 23:15 | |
| oiaohm | MinceR: apparmor vs smack vs SEinux vs..... LSM model really horrible make the kdbus idea almost look like sanity. | Aug 01 23:17 |
| MinceR | at least those are optional | Aug 01 23:17 |
| MinceR | the cult is working hard at making cancerd non-optional | Aug 01 23:18 |
| MinceR | "systemd® -- It's so good, nobody would use it if we didn't force it on them!™" | Aug 01 23:18 |
| oiaohm | Different groups did choose use systemd because it did address the problems they were dealing with. | Aug 01 23:19 |
| oiaohm | So nobody would use without force is not true. | Aug 01 23:19 |
| MinceR | what a glowing endorsement | Aug 01 23:20 |
| oiaohm | Those maintaining distributions have habit of supporting the largest percentage of their userbase and everyone else can sux it. | Aug 01 23:20 |
| MinceR | hot implications | Aug 01 23:21 |
| oiaohm | Not a process I 100 percent agree with. | Aug 01 23:21 |
| oiaohm | Its how we have end up with distributions with different default LSM and never properly sorting out the LSM issues. | Aug 01 23:21 |
| MinceR | most of those are way too difficult to use | Aug 01 23:22 |
| MinceR | this and the dangers of extra bloat makes them pointless | Aug 01 23:22 |
| oiaohm | Exactly mega levels of broken. | Aug 01 23:23 |
| MinceR | but hey, some government droids decided that MAC was mandatory in some government applications | Aug 01 23:25 |
| MinceR | without understanding what it was | Aug 01 23:25 |
| MinceR | probably because some corporate marketroid (who also doesn't understand what it is) sold the "feature" to them | Aug 01 23:25 |
| MinceR | it is apparently in the use case of some important people, so let's fuck up the entire OS for everyone | Aug 01 23:26 |
| MinceR | also how mountspaces are managed under systemd/Linux | Aug 01 23:26 |
| -->Glyphie44_ (sid163528@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cpqjldkgcqzhzrbg) has joined #techrights | Aug 01 23:29 | |
| oiaohm | mount space management under systemd does help with nfs client screw ups | Aug 01 23:30 |
| oiaohm | And userspace cluster file systems as well. | Aug 01 23:30 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: yes some things like mount spaces and systemd there are users it helping as well as those its annoying the hell out of. | Aug 01 23:31 |
| oiaohm | and I guess you are the later | Aug 01 23:31 |
| MinceR | yes, there was some (apparently important) client to redhat for whom it was important that it be set up in one particular way | Aug 01 23:32 |
| MinceR | so, naturally, it had to be forced on everyone who uses cancerd | Aug 01 23:32 |
| MinceR | because screw everyone else | Aug 01 23:32 |
| oiaohm | It help the users with the file systems I listed. | Aug 01 23:32 |
| oiaohm | That is quite a large number of end users. | Aug 01 23:32 |
| MinceR | whatever, i can easily learn another unix | Aug 01 23:32 |
| MinceR | these corporate types will be screwed hard, though | Aug 01 23:32 |
| MinceR | but i doubt they'll ever learn | Aug 01 23:33 |
| oiaohm | There is a problem where no matter what you do a percentage of people are going to hate you. | Aug 01 23:34 |
| MinceR | i'm used to that | Aug 01 23:34 |
| MinceR | millions of people i don't know and who don't know me hate me | Aug 01 23:35 |
| MinceR | some of them because i have light skin | Aug 01 23:35 |
| MinceR | some of them because i'm not religious | Aug 01 23:35 |
| MinceR | some of them because i'm not a fascist | Aug 01 23:35 |
| MinceR | humanity is a train wreck, but we can see the end | Aug 01 23:35 |
| MinceR | it will be painful | Aug 01 23:35 |
| MinceR | and there will be a lot of collateral damage | Aug 01 23:36 |
| MinceR | but at least this cancer on the face of the planet we know as "human" will be wiped out | Aug 01 23:36 |
| oiaohm | distribution development is really just extend of the human world. | Aug 01 23:36 |
| MinceR | indeed | Aug 01 23:36 |
| MinceR | it could have been otherwise | Aug 01 23:37 |
| MinceR | all that was necessary was to only allow engineers have a say in it | Aug 01 23:37 |
| <--gde33 has quit (*.net *.split) | Aug 01 23:37 | |
| <--Glyphie44 has quit (*.net *.split) | Aug 01 23:37 | |
| MinceR | naturally, that didn't happen | Aug 01 23:37 |
| MinceR | control freaks fuck this up for us just like they fuck everything else up | Aug 01 23:37 |
| oiaohm | Even if you just have engineers they are still only humans. | Aug 01 23:38 |
| oiaohm | Does not prevent these messes off different ideas or broken designs. | Aug 01 23:39 |
| MinceR | but at least they're humans who have their skin in the game | Aug 01 23:39 |
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| ---MinceR gives voice to Glyphie44_ x003n | Aug 01 23:42 | |
| oiaohm | A lot of the Linux problems have bene engineers having their own ideas and basically be like hurding cats. | Aug 01 23:42 |
| MinceR | a lot of it is optional | Aug 01 23:42 |
| MinceR | cancerd could have been optional too | Aug 01 23:42 |
| MinceR | but of course then the NSA wouldn't have had their way | Aug 01 23:42 |
| oiaohm | Really a lot of systemd is optional but then distribution packaging does not display those options. | Aug 01 23:44 |
| MinceR | we don't need a thousand systemd/Linux distributions anyway | Aug 01 23:44 |
| oiaohm | Even before systemd we had a distribution plague. | Aug 01 23:45 |
| MinceR | especially since one of the core tenets of systemd is that choice is bad and everything should be "standardized" by poettering | Aug 01 23:45 |
| MinceR | before systemd we had distributions that had a point | Aug 01 23:45 |
| oiaohm | ?? | Aug 01 23:45 |
| oiaohm | So items like whitebox had a point? | Aug 01 23:45 |
| MinceR | we had diversity, we had different ideas in them | Aug 01 23:45 |
| oiaohm | I guess you don't get what I mean by whitebox. | Aug 01 23:45 |
| MinceR | if things go on like this, soon even the package manager will be "standardized" | Aug 01 23:45 |
| MinceR | on systemd/Linux | Aug 01 23:46 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Box_Enterprise_Linux | Aug 01 23:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | White Box Enterprise Linux - Wikipedia | Aug 01 23:46 | |
| MinceR | the proliferation of systemd/Linux distributions goes against one of the things these people allegedly believe in | Aug 01 23:46 |
| oiaohm | We have had a lot of pointless level forking. | Aug 01 23:46 |
| MinceR | i didn't have this shit in mind | Aug 01 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Also we had a huge stack of init parts that distributions were usign that were no longer maintained in their init process some that had not been maintained for over 15 years when systemd started. | Aug 01 23:47 |
| MinceR | and will probably always work better than the constantly churning systemd code ever did | Aug 01 23:48 |
| oiaohm | Some had CVE numbers for over 6 years. | Aug 01 23:48 |
| oiaohm | So they were not working. | Aug 01 23:48 |
| oiaohm | at least correctly. | Aug 01 23:48 |
| MinceR | didn't your emperor say CVE numbers don't matter? | Aug 01 23:48 |
| MinceR | or they only don't matter when they apply to sacred projects such as systemd? | Aug 01 23:49 |
| oiaohm | don't give me that. | Aug 01 23:49 |
| MinceR | truth hurts, doesn't it? | Aug 01 23:49 |
| oiaohm | I have never backed the idea that CVE number don't matter or that the development lead of systemd should really be in that role. | Aug 01 23:50 |
| oiaohm | Its not that the truth hurts it that you are attempting generic arguement like that one me that don't apply to me. | Aug 01 23:50 |
| oiaohm | The reality there has been a security mess for a while well before systemd started. | Aug 01 23:51 |
| MinceR | https://i.imgur.com/YcaXSiW.mp4 ( https://imgur.com/gallery/YtVbZlM ) | Aug 01 23:51 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Beautiful kitties - Album on Imgur | Aug 01 23:51 | |
| MinceR | the good old "others did it too" argument. never ceases to... accomplish what, exactly? | Aug 01 23:52 |
| oiaohm | Also there has been a long term problem of not fixing stuff up in kernel space. | Aug 01 23:52 |
| oiaohm | systemd and pulseaudio both have lead to kernel level fixing. | Aug 01 23:52 |
| MinceR | which is fixed by breaking stuff in kernel space | Aug 01 23:52 |
| MinceR | and if the ashtray catches fire, i fix that by dousing the house with gasoline and setting it on fire | Aug 01 23:52 |
| oiaohm | Demo strating the breakage is required to get kernelspace fixed. | Aug 01 23:53 |
| MinceR | and if the firemen come out and put it out, i can show that it has lead to fire extinguishing. | Aug 01 23:53 |
| MinceR | yes, i do all my demos in production too | Aug 01 23:53 |
| MinceR | preferably in other people's production | Aug 01 23:53 |
| MinceR | after they've explicitly told me they don't want it | Aug 01 23:53 |
| oiaohm | The firemen example is how humans got around to having fire alarms and other things. | Aug 01 23:54 |
| MinceR | will we also have a corporate meddling alarm and an SJW meddling alarm in the future? | Aug 01 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Corporate meddling that started in the Linux world in by 1996. So that is not a new problem. | Aug 01 23:56 |
| MinceR | did i say it was? | Aug 01 23:57 |
| MinceR | its toxicity wasn't so apparent until more recently | Aug 01 23:57 |
| oiaohm | SJW stuff in the Linux world is really not that much once you look closer. Its not SJW its something lot more scary. What happen here with Linus is that the normal legal system started catching up with the internet. | Aug 01 23:59 |
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