Techrights logo

IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Monday, February 03, 2020

Join us now at the IRC channel.

DaemonFC[m]I've really had it with these stupid Fedora kernels.Feb 03 00:12
DaemonFC[m]I might just back everything up and switch to Debian.Feb 03 00:12
danielp3344DaemonFC: I like parabolaFeb 03 00:12
danielp3344debian is always out of dateFeb 03 00:12
danielp3344I was even on sid for a whileFeb 03 00:13
DaemonFC[m]Intel breaks something and these stupid idiots just package it like that.Feb 03 00:13
DaemonFC[m]At least Debian Stable stays on one LTS kernel series and just follows it.Feb 03 00:13
psydroidit is that important to always have all of the latest software, though?Feb 03 00:14
MinceRwhat difference does it make if it includes systemd anyway?Feb 03 00:15
MinceRthey all do what ibm wants, eventuallyFeb 03 00:15
MinceRand poettering is at least as clueless about software engineering as he was when he startedFeb 03 00:15
DaemonFC[m]Apparently, Debian is actually updating WebkitGTK.Feb 03 00:16
psydroidhe was at FOSDEM today to spread the faithFeb 03 00:16
DaemonFC[m]Firefox ESR.Feb 03 00:16
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, I can live with ESR.Feb 03 00:16
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, Debian isn't about the latest bling bling.Feb 03 00:17
psydroidon Sid I have Firefox and Firefox ESRFeb 03 00:17
DaemonFC[m]It's about stability and security patches, long term.Feb 03 00:17
DaemonFC[m]Ubuntu says they'll pimp your ride and they manage breaking everything.Feb 03 00:17
MinceRdeadian is about copying fedora, slowlyFeb 03 00:17
psydroidif I need the latest version of something I build it myselfFeb 03 00:17
danielp3344I should run guixFeb 03 00:18
MinceRit's surprising how much n00buntu manages to break considering how little they're willing to doFeb 03 00:18
psydroidUbuntu looks shiny and installs easily, but after that you find out that it doesn't actually workFeb 03 00:18
danielp3344but I've been too lazy to install itFeb 03 00:18
danielp3344and parabola is fairly up to dateFeb 03 00:18
psydroidin subtle and not so subtle waysFeb 03 00:18
danielp3344<psydroid "if I need the latest version of "> lol I remember when I was on sid I couldn't even do thatFeb 03 00:18
danielp3344I wanted gnome-builder, but meson was too old to build itFeb 03 00:19
psydroidthat's what the shill who came here recently didn't want to seeFeb 03 00:19
danielp3344and flatpak was too old to get the flatpakFeb 03 00:19
psydroidlolFeb 03 00:19
danielp3344I think I just gave up after thatFeb 03 00:19
psydroidflatpak is broken here on Debian 10Feb 03 00:19
danielp3344^no kiddingFeb 03 00:19
DaemonFC[m]Is there actually a way to tell what kernel Debian is actually using?Feb 03 00:20
danielp3344My pinephone made it to NY!Feb 03 00:20
danielp3344<DaemonFC[m] "Is there actually a way to tell "> uname -aFeb 03 00:20
DaemonFC[m]They broke Flatpak?Feb 03 00:20
MinceRflatpak is broken by designFeb 03 00:20
DaemonFC[m]Oh my fucking god.Feb 03 00:20
danielp3344MinceR: I don't think it's broken just badFeb 03 00:20
psydroidno, I mean I get some weird error message when running 'flatpak update'Feb 03 00:20
MinceRits "sandbox" is worthlessFeb 03 00:20
psydroidand I can't figure out what's the problemFeb 03 00:20
danielp3344MinceR: yeoFeb 03 00:20
danielp3344yep*Feb 03 00:20
MinceRand it depends on cancerdFeb 03 00:20
danielp3344MinceR: shaddupFeb 03 00:21
MinceRyeah, i know, you want the shiniest, most "modern" piece of shit available :>Feb 03 00:21
psydroid(flatpak update:14236): GLib-GIO-ERROR **: 01:20:41.928: No GSettings schemas are installed on the systemFeb 03 00:21
danielp3344MinceR: no I just happen to like systemd OK?Feb 03 00:21
MinceR(but then why not just skip ahead of systemd and fedora and run Backdoors10?)Feb 03 00:21
danielp3344It's free softwareFeb 03 00:21
MinceRit's notFeb 03 00:21
MinceRbut hopefully your condition is treatableFeb 03 00:21
danielp3344MinceR: because it won't run on my pinephone :PFeb 03 00:21
danielp3344also I'm on parabola, not fedoraFeb 03 00:22
MinceRanother thing i don't getFeb 03 00:22
MinceRif you believe the gospel, why would you prefer another systemd distro to fedora?Feb 03 00:22
danielp3344MinceR: it's like arch, but better at not installing nonfree stuff without telling youFeb 03 00:22
MinceRthey'll just do what their emperor tells them to, just more slowlyFeb 03 00:22
MinceRyeah, arch is garbage tooFeb 03 00:22
danielp3344I love pacman, I just hate their packagingFeb 03 00:23
danielp3344So much nonfree stuff pulled in for no reasonFeb 03 00:23
MinceRyeah, that's weirdFeb 03 00:23
MinceRconsidering that in theory you could replace all that nonfree stuff with just one massive nonfree hairballFeb 03 00:23
MinceR:>Feb 03 00:24
danielp3344MinceR: I have no nonfree code on this system other than the intel cpuFeb 03 00:24
danielp3344(which defeats the whole purpose but I don't have money to get another cpu)Feb 03 00:25
MinceRyeah, i know, you believe that poettering forcing his policies and daemons on you doesn't infringe on your freedomsFeb 03 00:25
MinceRand that they taking over projects to make them dependent on systemd or to make them part of systemd doesn't infringe on users' freedoms eitherFeb 03 00:25
MinceRapparently free software is not about choice :>Feb 03 00:25
danielp3344MinceR: am I missing any freedomsFeb 03 00:25
danielp3344?*Feb 03 00:25
MinceRit's not about control for the usersFeb 03 00:25
MinceRit's about ibm having control!Feb 03 00:25
MinceRwe could have skipped so much extra work if we had known this in the beginningFeb 03 00:26
MinceRyou even get to pay beloved microsoft to sign your uefi bootloaders, and see for how long will they graciously allow you to boot your "modern" system instead of the one it imitatesFeb 03 00:26
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 00:27
danielp3344MinceR: Do you hope to gain something?Feb 03 00:27
DaemonFC[m] 03 00:27
MinceRwhat could possibly be better than having alleged champions of freedom (red hat and canonical) to pay the biggest enemy the community has, only to be stabbed in the back later?Feb 03 00:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Debian -- Security Information -- DSA-4531-1 linuxFeb 03 00:27
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 00:27
MinceRyes, i hope to gain a great dealFeb 03 00:27
danielp3344I do enjoy discussing init systems and conspiracy but you're kind of hard to talk to about it lolFeb 03 00:27
DaemonFC[m]"Brad Spengler reported that a backporting error reintroduced a spectre-v1 vulnerability in the ptrace subsystem in the ptrace_get_debugreg() function."Feb 03 00:28
MinceRIT could do a lot for me, if it was powerful enough and if i could truly control the equipment i'm supposed to ownFeb 03 00:28
DaemonFC[m]:)Feb 03 00:28
MinceRah yes, the old bullshit about systemd being "just an init system"Feb 03 00:28
danielp3344MinceR: If you dislike the leadership of systemd fork itFeb 03 00:28
danielp3344Nobody will stop youFeb 03 00:28
MinceRno thank youFeb 03 00:28
<--swaggboi has quit (Quit: C-x C-c)Feb 03 00:28
psydroid"just fork it"Feb 03 00:28
danielp3344^Feb 03 00:28
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 00:28
MinceRi see no value in trying to edit a huge mess of design flaws implemented badly to try and turn it into something reasonableFeb 03 00:28
MinceRwhile following the churn they do in their own repo so that other malware like gnome can still run on itFeb 03 00:29
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 00:29
MinceRbut it's interesting how the systemd cult just assumes that everyone wants to use systemdFeb 03 00:29
psydroidyou can't "just do that"Feb 03 00:29
danielp3344MinceR: Then good day to you sirFeb 03 00:29
*danielp3344 leavesFeb 03 00:29
MinceR"hey, if you want to use something that isn't systemd, just fork systemd and call it something else!"Feb 03 00:29
MinceRit takes an exceptional amount of religious zealotry to be unable to realize that some people might not want to use systemdFeb 03 00:30
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, Debian looks like it's become as bad as Fedora, just with outdated software.Feb 03 00:30
MinceRwhich is pretty weirdFeb 03 00:30
psydroidunless you go back 10-20 years to the times before all of this happened and then fork everything and develop a sane system from thatFeb 03 00:30
MinceRoutdates is not "modern"Feb 03 00:30
MinceRi guess deadian people believe that just because their systemd is old it's somehow "stable"Feb 03 00:31
MinceReven though it was never stableFeb 03 00:31
MinceRs/dates/dated/Feb 03 00:31
psydroidI had a conversation about that with a friend last weekFeb 03 00:32
psydroidDebian 10 on a singlecore qemu mipsel machine took ages to boot the first time after upgrading from 9Feb 03 00:33
MinceRstrangeFeb 03 00:33
psydroidbut even he said he "likes" systemdFeb 03 00:33
MinceRafter all the gospel i've heard about how cancerd boots so fast, i'd expect differentFeb 03 00:33
psydroidindeedFeb 03 00:34
MinceRi remember when that was _the_ selling pointFeb 03 00:34
psydroidwasn't it built specificially for embedded hardware vendors?Feb 03 00:34
MinceRnow they don't have any selling points, they just play the ibm/microsoft gameFeb 03 00:34
psydroidspecifically*Feb 03 00:34
MinceRlolFeb 03 00:34
MinceRit would be amusingFeb 03 00:34
MinceR"we've put in an extra GB of RAM into our embedded system so that the "init system" would fit!"Feb 03 00:35
psydroidlolFeb 03 00:35
psydroidinstalling slackware 8.1 showed me what the system was like at the time and how usable it already wasFeb 03 00:36
psydroidall these years later what exactly have we gained apart from more "shiny" stuffFeb 03 00:36
-->swaggboi (~swaggboi@2601:151:c301:20f1:225:90ff:fe57:2da4) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 00:37
MinceRwe haven't gained but at least we've lostFeb 03 00:37
MinceRwe've lost a lot of control over software we used to useFeb 03 00:37
MinceRwe've lost a lot of control over what our own property doesFeb 03 00:37
MinceRand we're supposed to like microsloth deciding what OS we're allowed to boot and we're supposed to like ibm deciding how we're allowed to do our logging and whether tmux is allowed to keep running after we've detached and logged outFeb 03 00:38
psydroidironically my experience installing openbsd on my powermac g4 was more like installing and using slackware than a modern slackware/linux install isFeb 03 00:38
psydroidalso thatFeb 03 00:38
MinceRsuddenly we're supposed to not want to run a free unix anymore because some idiot who fancies himself a software engineer decided that it's not "modern" anymoreFeb 03 00:39
psydroidI don't accept microsloth being involved, let alone being decisive, in any part of my computing experienceFeb 03 00:39
danielp3344unix is deadFeb 03 00:40
danielp3344:PFeb 03 00:40
MinceRand i'm supposed to be happy that they took down the distribution i was using from the inside in attempt to force their malware on meFeb 03 00:40
psydroidthat's what they want you to believeFeb 03 00:40
danielp3344ok, both of youFeb 03 00:40
DaemonFC[m]"Deader than Judas Iscariot!" Feb 03 00:40
MinceReven though if it was as good as they claimed it to be, everyone would want to use it on their ownFeb 03 00:40
danielp3344never mind...Feb 03 00:40
*danielp3344 quietly switches to openrcFeb 03 00:41
MinceRwell, at least some of the clergy _know_ that systemd is crap otherwise they wouldn't have gone to all that trouble to force it on usFeb 03 00:41
DaemonFC[m] 03 00:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Distribution Release: OpenMandriva Lx 4.1 ( News)Feb 03 00:41
DaemonFC[m]I went to read their release notes and got an expired certificate from 12/16/2019.Feb 03 00:45
DaemonFC[m]*12/26 rather.Feb 03 00:45
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Going to a Super Bowl LIV party? You should replace Windows... []Feb 03 00:48
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Wine development release 5.1 is now available []Feb 03 00:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDevelop 5.5 released []Feb 03 00:52
DaemonFC[m]Might try Ubuntu 20.04 daily builds.Feb 03 00:54
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Feb 03 00:54
DaemonFC[m]I wonder if anything has improved in the past 3 years.Feb 03 00:54
DaemonFC[m]Other than getting rid of the last bits of Amazon.Feb 03 00:55
psydroidI got disappointed with Ubuntu on all of my hardware, so I am not running it anywhereFeb 03 00:57
psydroidplain Debian works better for despite despite the systemd stuffFeb 03 00:57
psydroidfor me*Feb 03 00:57
MinceRubunturd has systemd all the sameFeb 03 01:00
psydroidand it's still buggier, which is quite an achievementFeb 03 01:05
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 01:06
psydroidand when you tell the shill to fix his buggy software he tries to bribe you into joining the other weasels at weaselconfFeb 03 01:06
MinceR:>Feb 03 01:09
MinceRmaybe you get lucky and they ban you from weaselconf for not being politically correctFeb 03 01:10
MinceRor for being of a sex or race they don't happen to likeFeb 03 01:12
psydroidI'm pretty sure they've built up quite a profile about meFeb 03 01:13
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: I identify as a dolphin and I need a bathroom that has a tank full of saltwater.Feb 03 01:19
DaemonFC[m]If you don't give me one I will be in touch with my lawyer.Feb 03 01:19
DaemonFC[m]Also, Richard Stallman abused his position at the FSF to not give dolphin people more money to write Codes of Conduct with.Feb 03 01:20
DaemonFC[m]Therefore, we must cease being an official GNU project that nobody has ever heard of which apparently makes software that doesn't run on an actual computer.Feb 03 01:21
DaemonFC[m]Also, we will be suing the FSF under the Americans with No Abilities Act for not giving dolphin people special parking spots with aquarium equipped entrances. Feb 03 01:23
MinceRlolFeb 03 01:23
<--mmu_man_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)Feb 03 01:24
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: The Americans with No Abilities Act is the reason there's like 50 handicapped parking spots at Walmart.Feb 03 01:27
DaemonFC[m]Incidentally, half of the people parking there have no actual disability and just got a doctor slip so they could park closer to the door.Feb 03 01:28
MinceRdoesn't that offend americans with disabilities who do have some abilities, just not all of them?Feb 03 01:28
---ASKVAST[m] is now known as VASTfreedom[m]Feb 03 01:28
DaemonFC[m]I call it the Americans With No Abilities Act.Feb 03 01:28
DaemonFC[m]Because it's so frequently abused and used as subject matter for frivolous lawsuits by assholes.Feb 03 01:28
MinceRahFeb 03 01:29
MinceR:)Feb 03 01:29
DaemonFC[m]The compliance costs are a boon to lawyers and other people who add nothing to the real economy.Feb 03 01:29
DaemonFC[m]Those are the Americans With No Abilities. They sleaze by and profiteer off taking people to court for not having enough ramps, grab bars, and parking spots.Feb 03 01:30
DaemonFC[m]Or not making "reasonable accommodation" for people who need to bring their Emotional Support Turkey on a Southwest Airlines flight.Feb 03 01:30
MinceRi'd rather bring my Emotional Support RussiaFeb 03 01:31
DaemonFC[m]I see what you did there.Feb 03 01:31
MinceR:>Feb 03 01:31
DaemonFC[m]That's Trump's Emotional Support Pootie Poot.Feb 03 01:31
MinceRno, i meant the whole countryFeb 03 01:31
DaemonFC[m]"The Democrats are being mean to me with their IMPEACHMENT HOAX!"Feb 03 01:31
DaemonFC[m]"I did nothing wrong. Now here's the transcript of me asking a foreign government to investigate a political opponent or not get military aid they need to keep out further incursions into their territory!"Feb 03 01:32
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: It's kind of funny that Trump hasn't bothered to pardon his former lawyers and campaign people who are in federal prison.Feb 03 01:34
DaemonFC[m]Maybe it'll happen after the election.Feb 03 01:34
DaemonFC[m]Outgoing presidents tend to whip out the pardon pen for their campaign donors and administration officials who went to prison.Feb 03 01:35
DaemonFC[m]He wouldn't have to wait for 2024 if he won this election because his party will obviously never remove him.Feb 03 01:36
DaemonFC[m]He's waiting until the voters can't do anything about it.Feb 03 01:36
DaemonFC[m]They'll have served most of their prison time by the time the election results are in.Feb 03 01:37
DaemonFC[m]So at least there's that.Feb 03 01:37
DaemonFC[m]Bill Clinton even pardoned his brother for cocaine possession.Feb 03 01:38
DaemonFC[m]Then after the pardon, with his record clean, he immediately got a DUI and did other stuff.Feb 03 01:38
<--swaggboi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)Feb 03 01:39
DaemonFC[m] 03 01:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Marc Rich - WikipediaFeb 03 01:40
DaemonFC[m]Although Rich believed that he had relinquished his United States citizenship when he became a citizen of Spain, an appeals court ruled in 1991 that, for purposes of U.S. law, Rich remained a citizen and therefore was still subject to U.S. income taxes.[52] He also held Belgian, Bolivian,[53] Israeli, and Spanish passports.[52] Feb 03 01:40
DaemonFC[m]It's amazing how many citizenships money can buy.Feb 03 01:40
DaemonFC[m]Rich Russians buy their way into the EU through Cyprus.Feb 03 01:41
DaemonFC[m]The international community considers the northern part of the island to be territory of the Republic of Cyprus occupied by Turkish forces.[f] The occupation is viewed as illegal under international law and amounting to illegal occupation of EU territory since Cyprus became a member of the European Union.[35]Feb 03 01:42
DaemonFC[m]Oh goodies, so the EU won't even intervene when one of its members has been invaded.Feb 03 01:43
DaemonFC[m]"The EU strongly condemns the invasion of the EU in the strongest possible verbal condemnation!"Feb 03 01:44
MinceRthe EU doesn't do much of anythingFeb 03 01:44
MinceRthey're careful with the 1 or 2 dictatorships they have as member statesFeb 03 01:44
MinceRdespite their alleged "values"Feb 03 01:44
DaemonFC[m]Looks like Wikipedia is in flux.Feb 03 01:45
DaemonFC[m]The UK has been removed from the EU on the map, but their population hasn't been deducted. Feb 03 01:45
psydroid 03 01:45
psydroid 03 01:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Can't disable secure boot on HP ENVY Desktop - 750-287c. : Hewlett_PackardFeb 03 01:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | 2019 HP ENVY x360 cannot run linux : Hewlett_PackardFeb 03 01:45
psydroidHP employees don't even bother responding anymoreFeb 03 01:45
danielp3344OK I'm backFeb 03 01:49
danielp3344Sorry that took so longFeb 03 01:49
danielp3344MinceR: I'm running openrc nowFeb 03 01:50
danielp3344happy?Feb 03 01:50
MinceRdoesn't affect me, but it should be better for youFeb 03 01:51
danielp3344MinceR: welll....Feb 03 01:52
danielp3344It doesn't seem that different atmFeb 03 01:52
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, total accident, like it was when Lenovo didn't just hide the AHCI setting in my BIOS, they write protected it so toggling it with an EFI shell program didn't work.Feb 03 01:52
danielp3344GNOME is having issues and networking brokeFeb 03 01:52
danielp3344But I'm sure I'll get those fixedFeb 03 01:52
DaemonFC[m]You know, because the "we hid it so idiots wouldn't change it" holds up when idiots wouldn't know what EFI shell even is.Feb 03 01:52
MinceR:>Feb 03 01:53
danielp3344MinceR: It doesn't have any weird memory leaksFeb 03 01:53
danielp3344Which I was having problems with :PFeb 03 01:53
MinceRgoodFeb 03 01:53
danielp3344mehFeb 03 01:54
*danielp3344 goes back to systemdFeb 03 01:54
*psydroid doesn't suffer from systemd syndromeFeb 03 01:55
*MinceR did, at workFeb 03 01:55
MinceRbut i quit already :>Feb 03 01:55
danielp3344I will say I'm a bit surprised how easy it is to switchFeb 03 01:56
MinceRin theory it just takes a reboot on Bedrock Linux :>Feb 03 01:56
MinceRif you have different strata providing eachFeb 03 01:56
danielp3344For me it took a few rebootsFeb 03 01:56
danielp3344I forgot to add /etc/inittab the first timeFeb 03 01:57
MinceRwell, also in practiceFeb 03 01:57
MinceRi installed raspbian on a rpi4, then hijacked it with bedrock, fetched a devuan stratum and rebooted with it providing initFeb 03 01:57
danielp3344I don't mind openrc, it works fineFeb 03 01:57
danielp3344but I do really like some of systemd's featuresFeb 03 01:57
danielp3344MinceR: but hopefully I've shown I don't have any dependency problems (other than GNOME) :PFeb 03 01:58
MinceRi'm not sure if you can be sure of thatFeb 03 01:58
MinceRi don't know what you did on what distro :>Feb 03 01:58
danielp3344MinceR: I just installed openrc and sysvinit on parabolaFeb 03 01:59
MinceRah, i don't know their issuesFeb 03 01:59
danielp3344And hacked them into placeFeb 03 01:59
MinceRi know how it is on deadianFeb 03 01:59
MinceR(it used to be that they forced you to run systemd-shim, now they just remove/block a ton of packages if you don't use systemd)Feb 03 02:00
danielp3344anw, I'm going to go back to watching doctor who :PFeb 03 02:00
danielp3344I finally finished the 2nd doctorFeb 03 02:00
danielp3344on to the best oneFeb 03 02:00
MinceRinsert pun about having killed the 2nd doctorFeb 03 02:00
DaemonFC[m]Whoever killed the 12th doctor, thank you.Feb 03 02:05
*psydroid summons doctor zhivagoFeb 03 02:06
*MinceR summons doctor evilFeb 03 02:06
-->swaggboi (~swaggboi@2601:151:c301:20f1:225:90ff:fe57:2da4) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 02:07
DaemonFC[m]Trump apparently spent a bunch of money on Super Bowl ads. Feb 03 02:08
MinceRwhat's he advertising?Feb 03 02:08
DaemonFC[m]It's kind of telling that he has to spend that kind of ad time money to preach to the choir.Feb 03 02:08
DaemonFC[m]> what's he advertising?Feb 03 02:09
DaemonFC[m]I don't know and don't care.Feb 03 02:09
MinceR:>Feb 03 02:09
DaemonFC[m]Probably about how much fake shit he's accomplished as all his supporters lose their jobs and still believe in him.Feb 03 02:09
MinceRwhat's the difference between ignorance and apathy?Feb 03 02:09
DaemonFC[m]I actively don't care what he has to say.Feb 03 02:10
MinceR:>Feb 03 02:10
DaemonFC[m]It's going to be lies anyway.Feb 03 02:10
DaemonFC[m]MinceR I've come to a realization that engineers actually tend to put together their own computing flows as a set of fragile popsicle sticks and chewing gum solutions. Feb 03 02:17
DaemonFC[m]So why would they bother designing anything better for someone else unless they absolutely have to?Feb 03 02:18
DaemonFC[m]What becomes an entrenched standard is usually whatever is the first thing that's only barely good enough to work.Feb 03 02:19
DaemonFC[m]Then it spends the next however many decades being hacked to death in all kinds of horrible ways to stay relevant. Feb 03 02:19
MinceRseems to me things that don't work at all get entrenched just fineFeb 03 02:19
DaemonFC[m]X11 is an example.Feb 03 02:19
MinceRno, not reallyFeb 03 02:20
MinceRX11 is the most powerful windowing system we haveFeb 03 02:20
MinceRpity apparently the people who maintain it don't even understand the conceptFeb 03 02:20
DaemonFC[m]They refused to touch the stuff that's only relevant if you are doing something involving a computer in 1990.Feb 03 02:20
DaemonFC[m]So they made Wayland instead.Feb 03 02:20
MinceRand they skipped every feature poettering doesn't use on his laptop from itFeb 03 02:20
MinceRand they tied their implementations of it to systemdFeb 03 02:21
MinceRand, just to make extra sure that it sucks, they also forced CSD in themFeb 03 02:21
DaemonFC[m]Apparently he's a pretty odd guy. Needs multiseat on his laptop but doesn't care whether video games and Wine can function. Feb 03 02:21
MinceRyeahFeb 03 02:21
MinceRhe's insane, so they have him run the asylum :>Feb 03 02:22
DaemonFC[m]> and, just to make extra sure that it sucks, they also forced CSD in themFeb 03 02:22
DaemonFC[m]No, KDE uses server side decorations on Wayland.Feb 03 02:22
DaemonFC[m]MinceR I recall the first time systemd broke KDE carelessly. Feb 03 02:23
DaemonFC[m]They broke it in such a way that clicking log off or shut down did nothing.Feb 03 02:23
MinceRKDE is not mainstream anymoreFeb 03 02:23
DaemonFC[m]And some Fedora KDE sig people wrote new shutdown code and put it in KDE on Fedora. It got upstreamed.Feb 03 02:24
MinceRi was referring to weston (their reference implementation) and gnome-shell (or whatever it's called)Feb 03 02:24
MinceRthey aren't going to let their hostages choose an implementation for long anyway, it's not their wayFeb 03 02:24
MinceRthey're going to do to KDE what microsloth will in turn do to themFeb 03 02:25
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, so many distributions are sticking to GNOME and there's really not a lot you can do to differentiate.Feb 03 02:25
MinceRand everyone except microsloth upper management will be very surprised.Feb 03 02:25
DaemonFC[m]I think Unity was more about branding than anything else. They saw they couldn't make Ubuntu look much different with GNOME. Feb 03 02:25
MinceRi thought it was about their dreams of mobile market shareFeb 03 02:26
MinceRuntil they realized that maintaining a DE is actually workFeb 03 02:26
DaemonFC[m]Then they burned it down and walked out.Feb 03 02:26
MinceRindeedFeb 03 02:27
psydroidwill KDE still have a home on the BSDs?Feb 03 02:32
MinceRi doubt itFeb 03 02:33
psydroidthere was a talk about KDE on FreeBSD, which I haven't wached yetFeb 03 02:33
psydroidwatched*Feb 03 02:33
MinceRi remember when they announced KDE5 will depend on systemdFeb 03 02:33
MinceRthat doesn't sound like a project that cares whether their output will run on any BSDFeb 03 02:34
DaemonFC[m]How does one patch KDE 2 on FreeBSD?Feb 03 02:34
psydroidyes, that's trueFeb 03 02:34
MinceRi don't know and i don't careFeb 03 02:34
MinceRi already have a kernel that's being strangled to death with a CoC, i don't need anotherFeb 03 02:34
DaemonFC[m]How is it being strangled? Linus saying nice things about the incompetent pieces of shit at Intel and the Microsoft takeover?Feb 03 02:37
MinceRthey've put microsoft's people in control of the projectFeb 03 02:38
MinceRand they've put Linus on a leash so he can't protect the code from kdbusesque shit anymoreFeb 03 02:38
DaemonFC[m]He's been a lot less of his normal Fuck Nvidia self lately.Feb 03 02:38
MinceRand there's nobody else who will do the jobFeb 03 02:38
MinceRyes, and that's a big problem for LinuxFeb 03 02:38
DaemonFC[m]Dbus-broker showed that most of the real problem was dbus being a complete piece of crap in the first place.Feb 03 02:39
MinceRit needs to be protected from the shitty ideas of people like gkh by someoneFeb 03 02:39
MinceRindeed, but Linus showed that tooFeb 03 02:39
MinceRbecause he could be bothered to profile dbugsFeb 03 02:39
DaemonFC[m]But of course shove it into the kernel was the first option.Feb 03 02:39
MinceRthe people developing dbugs couldn't be arsed to do thatFeb 03 02:39
MinceRLinus was the only person who could stop them from shoving it into the kernel, and he can't do it anymoreFeb 03 02:40
MinceRand nobody can do it anymoreFeb 03 02:40
DaemonFC[m]We'll just hide the performance problems by putting it in the kernel.Feb 03 02:40
DaemonFC[m]Into the kernel witb everything. Get in here, GNOME. Feb 03 02:40
MinceRsun and microsoft did it before them :>Feb 03 02:40
psydroidas far as I am concerned they should do all of those thingsFeb 03 02:41
MinceRand it never workedFeb 03 02:41
DaemonFC[m]There really wasn't much concept of kernel and user in DOS and Windows 3 and 9x.Feb 03 02:41
DaemonFC[m]Which is why they ran on such garbage.Feb 03 02:41
MinceRNT ran on "just throw it in the kernel", thoughFeb 03 02:42
DaemonFC[m]Someone recently suggested on a Firefox support forum putting Linux on a Windows 98 era computer. Feb 03 02:42
DaemonFC[m]So innocent. Feb 03 02:42
psydroida modern Linux distribution on that kind of machine?Feb 03 02:43
DaemonFC[m]YeahFeb 03 02:43
MinceRis that poettering's "modern"? :>Feb 03 02:43
DaemonFC[m]I don't think the person was old enough to remember what those PCs were like.Feb 03 02:44
psydroidyes, "future and user proof"Feb 03 02:44
MinceRah, then it won't runFeb 03 02:45
MinceRi suspect leaving out the "modern" bullshit and running up-to-date GNU/Linux with reasonable WM/etc. could work, but not with a "modern" web browser as that would by itself eat all the resources anywayFeb 03 02:45
DaemonFC[m]A Windows 98 era computer couldn't run Firefox even if the OS somehow didn't use any resources. Feb 03 02:46
DaemonFC[m]That's how bad the web has gotten thanks to Apple amd Google.Feb 03 02:47
DaemonFC[m]The most modern browser I've seen that can run on Windows 98 is an old Gecko 1.8 branch of Kmeleon with updated TLS support. Feb 03 02:49
psydroidI did install OpenBSD on my Powermac G4 400 MHz machine with 1 GB of RAM and it booted up and generally worked faster than with Debian, but then the power supply broke so it's been sitting there for almost a yearFeb 03 02:49
psydroidthat's the most important takeaway, it's the Googleweb nowFeb 03 02:49
DaemonFC[m]The few desktop people that were trying to make FreeBSD usable for that role gave up and rebased on void linux.Feb 03 02:50
DaemonFC[m]Someone on Phoronix mentioned it's easier to install OS X on a Hackintosh than FreeBSD.Feb 03 02:55
DaemonFC[m]Apple's license says you may use it on an Apple labeled computer.Feb 03 02:55
psydroidI also saw one of the NetBSD presentations with one of the developers saying they don't want to be bug for bug compatible with LinuxFeb 03 02:55
MinceRso if i put a Post-It on a PC and scribble "Apple" on it, i'm licensed to run OSuX on it?Feb 03 02:56
DaemonFC[m]Just get yourself a nice label maker and print Apple and stick it to the computer. Feb 03 02:56
MinceR:>Feb 03 02:56
MinceRif only it was actually worth doingFeb 03 02:56
MinceROSuX is hilarious, thoughFeb 03 02:56
MinceRthe UI is supposed to be the selling point, yet they couldn't hack up or steal a workable window managerFeb 03 02:56
psydroidthe spinning beach ball of death is cuteFeb 03 02:57
MinceRthe settings dialog is also worth a laughFeb 03 02:57
MinceRthe extent of support for controlling widgets from the keyboard is more sad than amusing, thoughFeb 03 02:57
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos #howto #gnu #unix #howto []Feb 03 03:06
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Top 7 Best Paid Linux Games to Play in 2020 []Feb 03 03:13
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu Studio 20.04 LTS Wallpaper Contest []Feb 03 03:14
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Qt-Powered Lumina Desktop 1.6 Released For BSD/Linux Systems []Feb 03 03:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Second (final) release candidate for NetBSD 9.0 available! []Feb 03 03:41
-->sb0 (~lekernel@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 03:42
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: DeaDBeeF – the last music player []Feb 03 03:46
<--superkuh has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 03 03:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Review: KaOS 2020.01 []Feb 03 03:52
-->superkuh (~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 03:54
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: IBM/Red Hat/Fedora: Laura Abbott Leaving, Bug Fixes, and Buzzwords []Feb 03 03:57
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: Linux Action News, GNU World Order and Open Source Security Podcast []Feb 03 04:21
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Terminal Phase – space shooting game in your terminal []Feb 03 04:24
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: What’s New in Linux Mint 19.3 Cinnamon Edition []Feb 03 04:26
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Feb 03 04:30
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kubernetes Leftovers []Feb 03 04:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Python, R, Java and Perl []Feb 03 04:43
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Updates From FOSDEM: Daniel 'Curl' Stenberg on HTTP/3 and GNU Poke Adding Hyperlink Support []Feb 03 04:55
-->icarusfactor ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 05:36
<--factor has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)Feb 03 05:38
-->Firee (~Firee@unaffiliated/firee) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 05:46
<--icarusfactor has quit (Quit: Leaving)Feb 03 06:02
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #FreeSoftware (as in Copyleft/GPL) Will Eventually Win for the Same Reasons GNU/Linux Did #gpl #copyleft #microsoft #deletegithub []Feb 03 06:09
<--pav5088 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Feb 03 07:04
-->pav5088_ (~pav5088@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 07:04
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Installing Debian on the Pinebook Pro []Feb 03 07:17
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OSS Leftovers []Feb 03 07:20
<--acer-box has quit (Quit: Konversation term)Feb 03 07:32
<--libertybox_ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)Feb 03 07:32
-->libertybox ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 07:32
-->acer-box (~acer-box@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 07:32
-->mmu_man (~revol@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 07:57
<--sb0 has quit (Quit: Leaving)Feb 03 08:12
-->a1batross (f99f96a489@gateway/shell/jabberfr/x-tzfngejijwjkgica) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 08:14
-->norayr (~noch@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 08:51
liberty_box 03 09:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Dear Microsoft: It's time to disclose some real sales figures for Azure | ZDNetFeb 03 09:08
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 10 Best Web Browsers You Can Install on Your Raspberry Pi 3 []Feb 03 09:34
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Give an old MacBook new life with Linux []Feb 03 09:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Feb 03 09:37
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Systemd Has Become (Almost) an Operating System []Feb 03 09:59
<--norayr has quit (Quit: Leaving.)Feb 03 10:02
<--a1batross (f99f96a489@gateway/shell/jabberfr/x-tzfngejijwjkgica) has left #techrights ("Replaced by new connection")Feb 03 10:10
-->a1batross (f99f96a489@gateway/shell/jabberfr/x-tzfngejijwjkgica) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 10:10
<--pav5088_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Feb 03 10:59
-->norayr (~noch@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 11:00
-->sb0 ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 11:16
<--sb0 has quit (Quit: Leaving)Feb 03 11:25
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: How to Check Logged User Information With Who Command in Linux []Feb 03 11:31
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in Techrights []Feb 03 11:36
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Steam Figures, UniverCity and Test Tube Titans []Feb 03 11:51
<--a1batross (f99f96a489@gateway/shell/jabberfr/x-tzfngejijwjkgica) has left #techrightsFeb 03 12:35
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Feb 03 12:36
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 12:39
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Feb 03 12:41
-->a1batross (f99f96a489@gateway/shell/jabberfr/x-tzfngejijwjkgica) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 12:41
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 12:44
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 12:44
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #SimpleLogin : Open Source Solution to Protect Your Email Inbox From Spammers []Feb 03 12:45
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 12:48
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 12:48
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Standards: EHR, NHS, and CSS []Feb 03 12:51
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security and FUD []Feb 03 12:52
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 12:55
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 12:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's leftovers []Feb 03 12:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 3/2/2020: Wine 5.1 Released, GNU/Linux Benchmarks Against Vista 10 (Windows Loses), KDevelop 5.5 []Feb 03 13:01
<--norayr has quit (Quit: Leaving.)Feb 03 13:09
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 13:11
-->_inky (~inky@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 13:15
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 13:20
<--a1batross (f99f96a489@gateway/shell/jabberfr/x-tzfngejijwjkgica) has left #techrightsFeb 03 13:27
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 13:31
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 13:34
-->a1batross (f99f96a489@gateway/shell/jabberfr/x-tzfngejijwjkgica) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 13:34
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 13:41
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 13:41
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 13:50
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 13:50
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 14:41
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 14:42
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 14:54
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: So Mandy opened Chrome on that old Macbook.Feb 03 15:26
DaemonFC[m]And there's this message that says "Chrome won't get any more updates because Mac OS X 10.8 is no longer supported." that he's been ignoring forever.Feb 03 15:26
DaemonFC[m]Then it pings their sync and it causes his Chromebook to crash every 10 seconds or so and recover, crash, recover, crash, recover, so on.Feb 03 15:27
DaemonFC[m]So I ended up having to log him out of Chrome on the Mac and powerwash the Chromebook and sign him back in and recover everything for it to work again.Feb 03 15:27
DaemonFC[m]If people wanted to attack some old unsupported computers, Macs would make an excellent choice because Apple just leaves people there holding the bag and on newer Macs, you can't even install a supported OS that's getting security updates (Linux). Typically, the done thing when Apple abandons a Mac is to just keep using it while it turns into even bigger piece of swiss cheese. (stinky and full of holes)Feb 03 15:29
DaemonFC[m]It's not even like they push security updates for 10 or 15 years like Microsoft does. With a Mac, you're lucky if you get 5-6.Feb 03 15:30
MinceRi thought the done thing was to make a pilgrimage to a crApple Store and buy an expensive, crappy replacementFeb 03 15:32
DaemonFC[m]Holes in the underlying OS are bad, but there's still one thing you can do on unsupported Mac OS. Since Apple abandons to many users and is proficient mainly at creating e-waste, some developers keep unofficial versions of web browsers working on these older systems, which is better than nothing I guess.Feb 03 15:32
DaemonFC[m]But that's not what you expect out of something that costs 2-3 times what a PC does.Feb 03 15:32
MinceRalso, they like to pretend that you can always just upgrade the OSFeb 03 15:32
MinceR(which is, of course, not true)Feb 03 15:32
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: After most of the enhancements Intel has made to the CPUs it put out over the last decade or so got turned off because of the security problems they caused....Feb 03 15:37
DaemonFC[m]We're basically back in 2012 or so again anyway. Feb 03 15:38
DaemonFC[m]So the only way they sell new computers these days is with sabotage and having MS and Apple cut people off with software.Feb 03 15:38
DaemonFC[m]Amazon rushed to implement KPTI and other mitigations to their cloud because even at a 30% performance drop, all someone theoretically needed to do was write some malware and rent a virtual server to run it on and they could have taken over everything and spied on anyone else running a virtual server in AWS.Feb 03 15:40
DaemonFC[m]> also, they like to pretend that you can always just upgrade the OSFeb 03 15:41
DaemonFC[m]You can until you can't!Feb 03 15:41
MinceR 03 15:42
DaemonFC[m]Apple used to charge $39 for OS upgrades, but they waived it and raised the price of the Macs. Then all you heard these fucking idiots shouting was how Apple was giving them free OS upgrades.Feb 03 15:42
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, how does that work?Feb 03 15:42
DaemonFC[m]It's not like you get that many of them along the way, either What 2-3 major ones?Feb 03 15:42
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: Well, the funny thing is that Apple locked some people out from one upgrade that ended up working fine except that they were building their media player with a new version of SSE that made it 1% faster.Feb 03 15:43
DaemonFC[m]And that was the whole reason you "needed a new Mac".Feb 03 15:43
DaemonFC[m]People shared a hack that removed the code that checked for Macs without a CPU that supported that feature and found that everything worked except the media player. So they installed VLC.Feb 03 15:44
MinceRwell, you know diamond-studded swimming pools don't grow on trees, right?Feb 03 15:45
DaemonFC[m]Apple could have just as easily have built that media player to run 1% slower on newer Macs and tripled the number of Macs that could upgrade.Feb 03 15:45
MinceRfleecing the sort of idiot that would buy a crApple product in the first place is much more profitableFeb 03 15:45
MinceRprobably even on the long runFeb 03 15:45
DaemonFC[m]This is the kind of crap they do to manipulate people and put millions of working computers in a junkyard.Feb 03 15:47
MinceRto be fair, those were crApple products tooFeb 03 15:47
DaemonFC[m]In the long run, "consumers" will kill everything on the planet, because they're so easy to manipulate that nonsense like this makes them unload $3,000 on another Mac.Feb 03 15:48
DaemonFC[m]Even if something legitimately came along that meant no new Mac OS update after that one for those systems, that would have given the people that had them another 2 years with a working computer.Feb 03 15:49
DaemonFC[m]Apple resorts to some egregious bullshit to sell more stuff.Feb 03 15:50
DaemonFC[m]Fuck charging cables. The EU should look into this.Feb 03 15:50
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 15:50
MinceRthe EU is worthlessFeb 03 15:51
MinceRif you want sane charging cables, avoid crApple productsFeb 03 15:51
danielp3344<DaemonFC[m] "Apple resorts to some egregious "> This applies to almost every tech companyFeb 03 15:51
danielp3344MinceR: I really like the designFeb 03 15:51
danielp3344I just don't like that it's apple :PFeb 03 15:51
MinceRyou love bad design, don't you? :>Feb 03 15:52
danielp3344MinceR: I like it better than USB as it requires fewer thin pieces of metal to bend or breakFeb 03 15:58
MinceRah, finally crApple has found a way to make metal a bad thingFeb 03 15:59
MinceRand plastic a good thingFeb 03 15:59
danielp3344I've never touched one so I don't know if it actually works though :PFeb 03 15:59
MinceRthere's no rhyme or reason to it anymore, it's just that apparently we're supposed to believe that everything's the best the exact way crApple happens to do itFeb 03 15:59
danielp3344well, never used oneFeb 03 16:00
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: I looked at the bottom of Mandy's sister's Mac.Feb 03 16:00
MinceRand if they do it the other way around the next second, suddenly it was the other way around the whole timeFeb 03 16:00
<--_inky has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 03 16:00
-->_inky (~inky@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 16:00
MinceRlike when they decided that integrated GPUs weren't garbage after all the moment they released an alleged computer that had oneFeb 03 16:00
MinceRinteresting, isn't it?Feb 03 16:00
DaemonFC[m]Apparently, someone dropped it at some point and instead of having it properly repaired, they took the bottom off of another kind of laptop and used self tapping screws to fasten it into placeFeb 03 16:00
DaemonFC[m]I'm sure Apple could have fixed it for the standard price. Arm, leg, eye, kidney, testicle. Feb 03 16:00
MinceRlolFeb 03 16:01
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: No wonder they're so fucking hostile.Feb 03 16:02
DaemonFC[m]If you popped open the hook of their Beemer, you'd probably find a Pringle's can for an air intake.Feb 03 16:02
DaemonFC[m]My catalytic converter is banging around underneath the car. Car runs fine. So I'm trying not to care.Feb 03 16:03
DaemonFC[m]That's going well. No warning lights.Feb 03 16:03
danielp3344My truck has no mufflerFeb 03 16:04
danielp3344Someday I'll reattach itFeb 03 16:04
MinceRwho knows, maybe a pringles can works better as an air intake than the product of german hubris and incompetence :>Feb 03 16:05
MinceRoops, forgot "hostility to one's own customers"Feb 03 16:06
MinceRbmw and porsche are exemplars of thatFeb 03 16:06
danielp3344^lolFeb 03 16:06
danielp3344 also lolFeb 03 16:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Record Labels Will Ask Potential Piracy Trial Jurors if They Read TorrentFreak - TorrentFreakFeb 03 16:07
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: Just to prove how stupid copyright is...Feb 03 16:10
DaemonFC[m]So you can download classical music and I'm sure someone might send you a DMCA letter.Feb 03 16:10
MinceR:>Feb 03 16:11
DaemonFC[m]So you're going, "I'm pretty sure Vivaldi is real, real dead.".Feb 03 16:11
MinceRdoesn't matter, they have to protect his motivation to create new works!Feb 03 16:11
DaemonFC[m]And they go "Nah, our client recorded this in 1973, so it's copyrighted.".Feb 03 16:11
MinceRat the cost of your human rights, of course.Feb 03 16:11
DaemonFC[m]> doesn't matter, they have to protect his motivation to create new works!Feb 03 16:12
DaemonFC[m]That reminds me of a joke.Feb 03 16:12
DaemonFC[m] 03 16:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Beethoven JokesFeb 03 16:13
MinceR 03 16:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Calling Cards My Grandpa Kept In His Wallet As A Young ManFeb 03 16:16
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: "Rich people."Feb 03 16:17
DaemonFC[m]"Hey, I got an idea. How about instead of going to the Apple store, we go to Goodwill and buy a 14" HP from 2002 and take the bottom cover off!"Feb 03 16:17
DaemonFC[m]I'm impressed, really. Most people struggle to get those things apart. Of course, they might have just been trying to pry it with a putty knife to break the rubber cement that's there to keep them from upgrading RAM without adding $500 to the Mac.Feb 03 16:17
MinceRwell, an HP might just be crappy enough to fit the crApple deviceFeb 03 16:18
MinceRstill, they might be better off just using the HP insteadFeb 03 16:18
MinceRit's incredibly shit, but at least not a crApple.Feb 03 16:18
MinceRit's probably a better idea to just buy a used ThinkPadFeb 03 16:19
MinceRwith the good keyboard and TrackPointFeb 03 16:19
MinceRand a removable batteryFeb 03 16:20
MinceRand easy-to-service memory and bulk storage baysFeb 03 16:20
<--a1batross (f99f96a489@gateway/shell/jabberfr/x-tzfngejijwjkgica) has left #techrightsFeb 03 16:20
DaemonFC[m]They're just proof that you can pass college and make a lot of money and still be dumber than a second coat of paint. Feb 03 16:30
DaemonFC[m]In fact, most people that go to college these days are teenagers that have no idea what they're doing and aren't very smart and borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars that they will never have and can't file bankruptcy on so they can get a Feminist Studies degree with a 2.0 GPA in their pajamas.Feb 03 16:31
danielp3344DaemonFC: you're not making me want to finish my degree lolFeb 03 16:32
DaemonFC[m]The colleges love these people because it allows the government to do what it does best. Hire a bunch of lazy pieces of shit (the professors and administrators) who sit around and profit from accumulating human misery in the future.Feb 03 16:33
DaemonFC[m]But just in case you thought you'd avoid it, I saw an ad for a hotel desk clerk that makes $11 an hour and requires college.Feb 03 16:35
MinceR:>Feb 03 16:35
MinceR 03 16:37
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Imgur: The magic of the InternetFeb 03 16:37
XRevan86 03 16:49
MinceRlolFeb 03 16:52
XRevan86Got it looking more like a sketchy person rather than a star %)Feb 03 16:53
XRevan86good enoughFeb 03 16:53
MinceR"it's shaped like a star with a little flame inside it!"Feb 03 16:56
XRevan86hehFeb 03 16:58
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 17:04
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 17:05
XRevan86While the Russian State Duma is discussing whether a mention of God should be added to the constitution, I think it's time to rename the state to the Orthodox Federation of Russia.Feb 03 17:11
DaemonFC[m]I'll do you one better.Feb 03 17:13
DaemonFC[m]Indiana's constitution has "ALMIGHTY GOD" in shout caps.Feb 03 17:13
DaemonFC[m]It was written in the 1850s.Feb 03 17:13
DaemonFC[m]Apparently people over there have always protested a bit too much, methinks. Feb 03 17:14
DaemonFC[m]For a trailer park state full of drunkards and people strung out on drugs and banging lot lizards and blasting Slayer at 3 AM, you'd think they'd tone it down with the religious stuff a notch.Feb 03 17:15
DaemonFC[m]They're nasty. They think Papa Roach is the best music ever made.Feb 03 17:16
*XRevan86 imagines Indiana's clergy getting a high when shouting thatFeb 03 17:17
DaemonFC[m]IdiocracyanaFeb 03 17:17
XRevan86Is it appropriate to reference Idiocracy after the US got a president crazier than the one in the film? %)Feb 03 17:19
DaemonFC[m]Actually, the people depicted in the movie Idiocracy were still better than the ones in Indiana. While both had no idea how anything works and laid around all day smoking marijuana, eating cheetos, and masturbating, the people in the movie knew that when they found the smartest guy alive to make him the president.Feb 03 17:19
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 17:20
<--_inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Feb 03 17:20
MinceR03 171142 < XRevan86> While the Russian State Duma is discussing whether a mention of God should be added to the constitution, I think it's time to rename the state to the Orthodox Federation of Russia.Feb 03 17:21
MinceRwow, they're behind hungary when it comes to fundamentalismFeb 03 17:21
DaemonFC[m]The Nixon Administration launched the war on drug with misinformation about marijuana so they could vilify anti-war leftists on the evening news every night and stick black people in prison.Feb 03 17:21
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 17:22
MinceRand it went downhill from thereFeb 03 17:22
DaemonFC[m]They can't technically just shoot people for having a sit in, but really they can. The Kent State Massacre was not an accident.Feb 03 17:23
DaemonFC[m]Pretty much.Feb 03 17:23
DaemonFC[m]The police can shoot you for anything and say you lunged at them, even when that's not what their own camera shows.Feb 03 17:24
DaemonFC[m]So that's pretty brazen.Feb 03 17:24
danielp3344<DaemonFC[m] "The police can shoot you for any"> shoot them firstFeb 03 17:24
danielp3344We have a second amendment for a reasonFeb 03 17:24
DaemonFC[m]Oh yeah, that's a straight shot to death row in Indiana.Feb 03 17:25
danielp3344¯\_(ツ)_/¯Feb 03 17:25
DaemonFC[m]It's hard to get a death sentence in Indiana. It has to be aggravated first degree murder.Feb 03 17:25
danielp3344die now or later :PFeb 03 17:25
DaemonFC[m]One of the aggravating factors can be that the person you murdered was a police officer.Feb 03 17:25
danielp3344<DaemonFC[m] "It's hard to get a death sentenc"> at least here, it's not murder if they shoot firstFeb 03 17:25
danielp3344not sure about police thoughFeb 03 17:26
DaemonFC[m]In Indiana, there's a law that "discourages" no knock warrants. It came about because a man was raided in such a warrant by plain clothes police officers who didn't identify themselves. Feb 03 17:26
danielp3344ooof lolFeb 03 17:27
DaemonFC[m]He shot them and the state convicted him for aggravated murder.Feb 03 17:27
DaemonFC[m]The state Supreme Court reversed it and said that he acted in self defense because it appeared to a reasonable person that it was a home invasion.Feb 03 17:27
DaemonFC[m]And then the legislature enacted a law to that effect.Feb 03 17:27
DaemonFC[m]The police unions were fucking pissed.Feb 03 17:28
danielp3344That's fortunateFeb 03 17:28
DaemonFC[m]They claimed that the law "encourages people to shoot at police officers", even though it hasn't. Feb 03 17:28
DaemonFC[m]What it has done is stop them from doing no knock warrants without their uniforms and badges on.Feb 03 17:29
DaemonFC[m]And now they also shout "POLICE! SEARCH WARRANT!".Feb 03 17:29
DaemonFC[m]Like, how hard is that?Feb 03 17:29
danielp3344That's also fortunateFeb 03 17:29
MinceR03 172506 < DaemonFC[m]> Oh yeah, that's a straight shot to death row in Indiana.Feb 03 17:30
MinceRnot if your army is powerful enoughFeb 03 17:30
DaemonFC[m]The reason the cops oppose anything that regulates their behavior is because they're an armed roving gang of state-sanctioned criminals.Feb 03 17:30
DaemonFC[m]And they're used to doing whatever they want.Feb 03 17:30
MinceRthe only way you can defend yourself against states is with an army of your ownFeb 03 17:30
DaemonFC[m]Indiana actually does have a State Defense Force.Feb 03 17:30
DaemonFC[m]It takes over the duties of the National Guard if the National Guard is activated for the federal government.Feb 03 17:31
MinceRit's interesting how the biggest proponents of regulating _other_ people's behavior are always so opposed to having their _own_ behavior regulated, isn't it?Feb 03 17:31
MinceRthe "social contract" is a fraudFeb 03 17:31
DaemonFC[m]I don't recall signing that particular contract.Feb 03 17:34
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: It's just like how Republicans keep cutting  Social Security and Medicare, a piece at a time.Feb 03 17:35
MinceR 03 17:35
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 17:35
DaemonFC[m]"We are altering the social contract! Pray we alter it n further!:Feb 03 17:35
MinceRyou don't sign that contract, it's implied and enforced by violenceFeb 03 17:35
MinceRserves to show how bullshit it isFeb 03 17:35
MinceRit's a form of organized crime they've managed to get the populace to accept as justFeb 03 17:36
oiaohmDaemonFC[m]: Australia we still do have no knock warrants but the person doing them will be in uniform if it at night uniform with embedded lighting.   No requirement to shout Police Search Warrent but it must be clear that the person entering without permission holding weapon is quite possible police by straight up appearance.Feb 03 17:37
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 17:40
oiaohmThe funnest one on Australian police history for a raid gone wrong is where the police did yell out for entry,  did have a warrant, was in full uniform and the first police office though door end up dead by flying knife from a deaf person with poor vision and it was classed as self defense because the police offices had not waiting on the door bell. Feb 03 17:43
oiaohmThis has lead to first in with a police raid person wanting the most gear possible.Feb 03 17:45
oiaohmAs in most protective gear possible.Feb 03 17:45
MinceRdo they have tanks yet?Feb 03 17:46
schestowitz[15:26] <DaemonFC[m]> schestowitz: So Mandy opened Chrome on that old Macbook.Feb 03 17:48
schestowitzDies he need that machine?Feb 03 17:48
DaemonFC[m]No, he was trying to sign out so he can give it back to his sister.Feb 03 17:49
DaemonFC[m]It's useless, slow, and unsupported, but she wanted it back.Feb 03 17:49
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Godot Engine, Dicey Dungeons and Many Game Suggestions for GNU/Linux []Feb 03 17:51
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: How SUSE builds its Enterprise Linux distribution – PART 2 []Feb 03 17:55
oiaohmMinceR:    That is the closest Australia Police will get to a tank without a requisition order .  To have a tank you either have to be a licensed armorer or in the military in Australia using tanks yes special mil license here.Feb 03 18:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Queensland Police SERT Lenco Bearcat G3 review | CarAdviceFeb 03 18:06
oiaohmThat is to have tank/drive tank.Feb 03 18:06
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 20 most significant programming languages in history []Feb 03 18:08
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 18:10
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 18:11
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 18:11
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 18:11
MinceR:>Feb 03 18:11
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: status symbol maybe...Feb 03 18:12
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 18:16
MinceR 03 18:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectFeb 03 18:17
schestowitzvery clever and simpleFeb 03 18:19
schestowitznow do one about Apple :-)Feb 03 18:19
schestowitzDaemonFC[m] would get a laughFeb 03 18:19
MinceRi can't draw stuff like thatFeb 03 18:20
schestowitz 03 18:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/ Apple: think different port. #adapter #ripoff #swindle #scam #antistandardFeb 03 18:20
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos []Feb 03 18:40
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: What is a Debian Developer? []Feb 03 18:47
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Pine64 Will Sell Hard Shell Cases for the PinePhone []Feb 03 18:56
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Useful Tools To Monitor CPU And GPU Temperature In Ubuntu []Feb 03 19:00
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 19:03
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: - A Package Search Engine for All GNU/Linux Users []Feb 03 19:06
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Verdict On systemd Is In []Feb 03 19:10
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 19:11
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Canonical Outs New Kernel Live Patch for Ubuntu 18.04 and 16.04 LTS []Feb 03 19:14
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Nvidia 440.59 Graphics Driver Adds PRIME Synchronization Support, More []Feb 03 19:16
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Indian teen launches Raspberry Pi 4 based STEM kit []Feb 03 19:20
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 19:23
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Serpent Is an Open-Source Game Framework Focused on 2D Games []Feb 03 19:30
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software: Termshark, TLP, Nextcloud Hub and CopyQ []Feb 03 19:33
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 19:34
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers []Feb 03 19:35
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The $199 Motile M141 With AMD Ryzen 3 3200U Offers Surprisingly Decent Performance []Feb 03 19:37
MinceR 03 19:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectFeb 03 19:46
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian Leftovers []Feb 03 19:56
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 19:57
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Why you should buy a pre-installed Ubuntu workstation []Feb 03 19:58
-->_inky (~inky@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 20:05
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Git, C, Perl, Python and Java []Feb 03 20:06
-->inky (~inky@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 20:10
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Amazon Linux Users Win a Major Migration Reprieve []Feb 03 20:11
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: They probably see a 12 year old Macbook with a broken battery and a bottom cover that was replaced with one from a random PC and self tapping screws because the holes didn't line up as an "investment".Feb 03 20:12
DaemonFC[m]They do own a BMW.Feb 03 20:13
DaemonFC[m]People on Craigslist post junk like this all the time and still want $300 for it. You can get a modern laptop that's brand new and run Linux on it for that.Feb 03 20:13
<--_inky has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)Feb 03 20:14
MinceR 03 20:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectFeb 03 20:15
MinceR 03 20:20
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 20:23
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 20:23
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 20:24
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 20:24
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: CERN dumps Facebook Workplace for open source []Feb 03 20:29
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 20:31
-->_inky (~inky@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 20:32
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 20:32
-viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: IBM/Red Hat/Fedora: Satellite, Ansible, OpenShift and More []Feb 03 20:33
<--inky has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)Feb 03 20:35
MinceR 03 20:38
DaemonFC[m]The only reasons anyone use Macs are some combo of, 1. Snob 2. Developing iPhone apps for money and there's no other way to use the SDK. 3. Windows 10 is infinite diarrhea backing up out of the pipes and they can't figure out how to use Linux. The Mac spent most of its existence in such obscurity that Apple stock was both worthless, and the company almost failed. Since there was no "device" that needed a Mac in orderFeb 03 20:45
DaemonFC[m]to develop software and it was just as unstable as Windows 98, if not worse, and it cost a fortune, and you couldn't even share a file on a floppy disk with a PC user, there was simply no reason to own one unless you were a complete and total idiot. Feb 03 20:45
DaemonFC[m]Would have failed except Microsoft ended up giving them $700 million in exchange for looking like there was desktop competition for Windows (no matter how bad it really was), and to kill off a platform where Netscape had 2% of the web browser market and was not previously threatened. Feb 03 20:47
*psydroid uses Powermacs to run and write software for Linux/BSD on PPCFeb 03 20:47
XRevan86psydroid: To test on BE?Feb 03 20:48
DaemonFC[m]I'm pretty sure that the real reason Apple did Safari was some sort of an agreement with Microsoft to not help Mozilla. Since we know Safari is terribly bloated and the code is horrible.Feb 03 20:48
MinceR 03 20:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Sacha Baron Cohen Relives Times He Went Too Far | The Jonathan Ross Show - YouTubeFeb 03 20:48
MinceRthat doesn't really make Safari specialFeb 03 20:48
MinceReverything crApple does is like that :>Feb 03 20:48
psydroidXRevan86, for example, but I have QEMU set up as well for that purpose. But nothing beats occasionaly testing things on hardwareFeb 03 20:49
XRevan86MinceR: He joked about the eternal national leader Nazarbayev!?Feb 03 21:00
MinceRapparentlyFeb 03 21:00
XRevan86almost blasphemyFeb 03 21:01
MinceR 03 21:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Microsoft Teams goes down after Microsoft forgot to renew a certificate - The VergeFeb 03 21:06
XRevan86oh no?Feb 03 21:06
XRevan86Did it really take them 1.4 hours to renew the certificate?Feb 03 21:07
MinceRlolFeb 03 21:07
XRevan86* 2.4Feb 03 21:07
XRevan86a typoFeb 03 21:07
MinceRmaybe they've found a consultant who could do it that quickly :>Feb 03 21:08
XRevan86oh wait, they *started* rolling out, they finished renewing in 3 hoursFeb 03 21:08
MinceR 03 21:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post objectFeb 03 21:09
-->reader (b9d9757b@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 21:37
readerHiFeb 03 21:38
---reader is now known as Guest57050Feb 03 21:38
MinceR 03 21:38
Guest57050saw the article about systemD, and am trying to find a distro that doesn't run it, and also doesn't run zstd (facebook-linked is never good) ... hard to find! Feb 03 21:39
Guest57050evil sonic, lol?Feb 03 21:39
MinceRno, just addicted to ringsFeb 03 21:39
Guest57050lolFeb 03 21:39
MinceRwe used to have a wiki about distros without systemd, but last time i checked it was downFeb 03 21:39
MinceRi'll find it or its archiveFeb 03 21:39
Guest57050okayFeb 03 21:39
MinceR 03 21:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Linux distributions without systemd - Without SystemdFeb 03 21:40
MinceRthe actual site has a database errorFeb 03 21:40
MinceRi don't know who owns itFeb 03 21:40
XRevan86There's also 03 21:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | No systemdFeb 03 21:40
Guest57050I found something that listed zstd distros but, on looking up e.g. Mint, it says it is using zstd. Feb 03 21:40
MinceRi don't know what zstd isFeb 03 21:40
Guest57050thanks for those links ... will take a lookFeb 03 21:40
Guest57050zstd is the new facebook-backed compression method. I'm shocked how many distros are using it. Feb 03 21:41
Guest57050just looked up pclinuxos, with them not being systemd, but they use it; I think since at least feb last yearFeb 03 21:41
Guest57050replaced xzFeb 03 21:41
MinceRfor their packages?Feb 03 21:41
Guest57050those links have great info ... will read properly laterFeb 03 21:42
Guest57050yes, for packagesFeb 03 21:42
Guest57050faster, but takes up more space, BUT is developed on github and it's facebookFeb 03 21:42
Guest57050 03 21:43
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - facebook/zstd: Zstandard - Fast real-time compression algorithmFeb 03 21:43
MinceRi seeFeb 03 21:43
Guest57050horrifyingFeb 03 21:43
XRevan86Why is that horrifying though?Feb 03 21:43
XRevan86it's just compressionFeb 03 21:43
Guest57050the facebook linkFeb 03 21:43
Guest57050yes, it's open source, but the way it's been brought in hasn't been with lots of articles etc everywhere, and facebook aren't trustworthy, just as github/ms isn'tFeb 03 21:44
XRevan86Compression isn't encryption thoughFeb 03 21:44
XRevan86It's just there to compress with as fast decompression as possibleFeb 03 21:45
Guest57050yes, but it's facebook/github being very involved with overall system a lot moreFeb 03 21:45
Guest57050I'm noticing the system is slower on average, as it scans a lot before doing that marginally faster install/updateFeb 03 21:47
Guest57050 03 21:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | zstd package versions - RepologyFeb 03 21:47
Guest57050the list I found of distros using it, but I don't think it's up to date, as it looks like Mint use it, yet they're on the 'not using it' part of this listFeb 03 21:48
MinceRthis seems to be merely a list of distros providing itFeb 03 21:48
XRevan86That's just a list of distributions that have that package in Feb 03 21:49
XRevan86their reposFeb 03 21:49
MinceRit doesn't mean they've switched to compressing their packages (or anything else) with itFeb 03 21:49
XRevan86thanks, cat, for splitting my messageFeb 03 21:49
Guest57050... and maintainersFeb 03 21:49
MinceRsuch changes generally aren't made lightlyFeb 03 21:49
Guest57050cat?Feb 03 21:49
XRevan86Yes, a cat walked through my laptop and pressed EnterFeb 03 21:49
MinceRin fact, it isn't even meaningful in some casesFeb 03 21:49
Guest57050you have a cat? lolFeb 03 21:49
XRevan86while I was typing with an external keyboardFeb 03 21:49
MinceRfor example Gentoo and its derivatives (like Funtoo) generally use ebuilds as their packages, which are uncompressed text files that describe how to get the sources and how to build them along with metadataFeb 03 21:50
MinceRand the sources are generally left in their original formFeb 03 21:50
Guest57050yes, but e.g. arch brought it in very fast, and didn't really tell users ... the same with adding in qt5 bloat recently too ... am seeing people not at all pleased with that, who are running gtk systemsFeb 03 21:50
MinceRarch jumps on anything new without much thoughFeb 03 21:50
MinceRtFeb 03 21:50
MinceRi don't recommend arch to anyoneFeb 03 21:50
XRevan86I've only heard of Arch switching to zstd just recentlyFeb 03 21:50
Guest57050yes, I'm seeing arch outright lie as well eg that the qt5 stuff was 'an oversight', lolFeb 03 21:51
XRevan86I'm not a user and I heard about that %) 03 21:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Arch Linux - News: Now using Zstandard instead of xz for package compressionFeb 03 21:51
MinceRand avoiding systemd can be something of a heuristic for this, as that too is something new and shiny that hipsters are all over even though it isn't anywhere near maturityFeb 03 21:51
Guest57050yes, it was just a paragraph, and already in useFeb 03 21:51
XRevan86What Qt5 bloat are you talking about?Feb 03 21:51
MinceRbe wary of arch derivatives thoughFeb 03 21:51
MinceR(like artix)Feb 03 21:51
Guest57050yes, ppl think systemd and zstd and the latest whatever is best, but it's so notFeb 03 21:51
Guest57050qt5 added into gst-plugins-goodFeb 03 21:52
Guest57050arch derivatives? you mean manjaro?Feb 03 21:52
Guest57050I was going to look into artix, eek ... won't bother. Feb 03 21:52
MinceRmanjaro, artix, parabolaFeb 03 21:53
XRevan86So you're a toolkitophobe %)Feb 03 21:53
Guest57050Right .. .even parabola?Feb 03 21:53
MinceRdunno which of those don't force systemd on users, except i know artix doesn'tFeb 03 21:53
XRevan86I wonder what plugins need gtk and qt forFeb 03 21:53
DaemonFC[m]> I'm noticing the system is slower on average, as it scans a lot before doing that marginally faster install/updateFeb 03 21:53
DaemonFC[m]I noticed RPM got a lot faster with zstd in Fedora.Feb 03 21:53
Guest57050yes, I can see artix is sysd-free, on the link, and this new obarun I'm seeing ... I saw that yesterday and looks a bit complexFeb 03 21:53
MinceRmaybe they have settings dialogsFeb 03 21:53
XRevan86And you should keep in mind that GTK is much more controversial in their decisions than Qt.Feb 03 21:54
Guest57050yes, it's odd mixing qt/gtk, especially in gst-plugins-good ... many prefer to separate those things. I certainly avoid qt5. Feb 03 21:54
DaemonFC[m]It depends on what setting you use.Feb 03 21:54
DaemonFC[m]If you're just going for similar compression to DEFLATE, zstd is very fast.Feb 03 21:54
Guest57050I've not tried fedora, but am reading the pclinuxos forum and they're saying it's faster too. maybe it's something else on arch!Feb 03 21:54
Guest57050gtk more controversial? Feb 03 21:55
Guest57050Defo worried that the main Mate guy is now working at canonical. Feb 03 21:55
MinceRgtk and qt both integrated half a window manager due to waylandFeb 03 21:55
MinceRgtk also tossed widgets used by the application it owes its existence to: gimpFeb 03 21:55
Guest57050okayFeb 03 21:56
MinceROTOH qt5 has 2 web browsers built inFeb 03 21:56
*XRevan86 went to check some stuff about zlib, and it hosts its git repo on GitHub…Feb 03 21:56
DaemonFC[m]XZ was painful in RPMs.Feb 03 21:56
MinceRwhich is probably the reason why its such a PITA to buildFeb 03 21:56
Guest57050didn't know qt had web browsers in it!Feb 03 21:56
MinceRit has QtWebKit and QtWebEngineFeb 03 21:56
DaemonFC[m]I noticed that DeltaRPMs got a lot faster too.Feb 03 21:56
XRevan86MinceR: No, it has one, the other is deeply deprecated and has been splitted out.Feb 03 21:56
MinceRthe former is WebKit and the latter is BlinkFeb 03 21:56
DaemonFC[m]So maybe it's not all zstd. Maybe other stuff improved around the time it went in.Feb 03 21:57
MinceR(or perhaps more accurately it's chromium)Feb 03 21:57
MinceRwell, technically there's no requirement for a package manager to use the same compressor for all packagesFeb 03 21:57
Guest57050I see (re qt web browsers)Feb 03 21:57
Guest57050which distros do you guys use?Feb 03 21:58
XRevan86Guest57050: I can say about Martin Wimpress that he's a nice guy.Feb 03 21:58
XRevan86MinceR: dpkg sure hasn't.Feb 03 21:58
Guest57050I've read stuff I think on the Ubuntu Mate forum and he seemed great, yes. Just hope canonical take his orders, not the other way round, lolFeb 03 21:59
Guest57050Mate, I think, is awesome ... system is nice and light, but it does the basics really wellFeb 03 22:00
MinceRi use slackware, bedrock (with void and/or devuan strata) and openbsdFeb 03 22:00
Guest57050omg, wow, that's quite a resumeFeb 03 22:00
MinceRoh, there's also a raspbian stratum on my rpi4Feb 03 22:00
MinceRoh, and funtoo on my tablet, but i rarely use itFeb 03 22:00
Guest57050you've clearly got great linux abilities!Feb 03 22:01
XRevan86Guest57050: All he's doing is to make GNU/Linux more user friendly, starting with his Ubuntu MATE project. If Canonical starts pressing him, you'd know, because that'd be the last day of Ubuntu MATE.Feb 03 22:01
Guest57050great to hear. I had a feeling that he's one of the good guys. Feb 03 22:01
Guest57050so it's good that he'll give canonical a good telling!Feb 03 22:01
Guest57050I'm noticing a lot more people using MateFeb 03 22:02
MinceRand devuan on my vps with no bedrockFeb 03 22:02
XRevan86Guest57050: I personally use two and a half distros: openSUSE, Debian and Devuan. As you can tell I don't have a strong opinion on systemd.Feb 03 22:02
Guest57050well doneFeb 03 22:03
XRevan86MinceR: bedrock?Feb 03 22:03
Guest57050no probs, it's up to everyone themselvesFeb 03 22:03
MinceRXRevan86: 03 22:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Bedrock LinuxFeb 03 22:03
XRevan86MinceR: Ah, right.Feb 03 22:04
XRevan86I forgot that exists.Feb 03 22:04
Guest57050cool ... covers everything, and such a simple piggyback install!Feb 03 22:04
Guest57050can use any init as wellFeb 03 22:05
Guest57050if you know what you're doing, that must be really cool to useFeb 03 22:05
XRevan86Anyway, I really don't see the harm behind zstd, it doesn't really give Facebook any leverage. And GitHub… already has us by our necks. Even with zlib.Feb 03 22:08
*XRevan86 went to check LZ4: 03 22:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | LZ4 - Extremely fast compressionFeb 03 22:09
Guest57050it's a worry ... I saw someone saying it's facebook using linux users as guinea pigs, so they can improve things for themselves (zstd helps them run fb stuff better)Feb 03 22:09
Guest57050I worry about the corporate creepFeb 03 22:09
XRevan86Guest57050: That's just the nature of free software.Feb 03 22:10
XRevan86appropriated by a corporationFeb 03 22:10
XRevan86If they've picked LZ4 and started contributing to it, there wouldn't be that much of a difference, except with who's making the release bumps and accepts merge requests.Feb 03 22:11
XRevan86It's not like it's HackLang.Feb 03 22:11
Guest57050personally I avoid corporate to the max ... and hopefully linux devs choose privacy and not corporate. linux is all over the world on servers; desktop users need privacy, or I see no point in using linux ... they may as well be on windows, lol, and leave linux to those who like privacyFeb 03 22:12
XRevan86Guest57050: That's more in the realm "should we make our multi-user chat in WhatsApp or in XMPP/IRC/Matrix?" than just some compressorFeb 03 22:13
Guest57050okayFeb 03 22:13
XRevan86If Facebook comes and says "now we're adding telemetry into zstd", it will be immediately forked or abandoned. It's not that complicated to be lock-in'able.Feb 03 22:14
Guest57050that's the worry, about where it would lead, and it was the way e.g. arch brought it in ... no real announcement, and just people discovering it running, and then an announcement paragraph a couple of weeks laterFeb 03 22:15
Guest57050doesn't seem to be lots of articles ... just suddenly it's everywhereFeb 03 22:15
Guest57050as long as linux devs dump it the second fb try anything, that's awesomeFeb 03 22:15
XRevan86Guest57050: They probably just didn't bother at first, and then decided that it is indeed worth an announcement.Feb 03 22:17
Guest57050odd crossing hell and high water to get away from ms, yet here ms/fb etc isFeb 03 22:17
Guest57050maybe, yesFeb 03 22:17
XRevan86As that's under the hood and doesn't break anything, like most changes in Arch are.Feb 03 22:17
Guest57050but they seem really dishonest, when I see the liesFeb 03 22:17
Guest57050that was a bit strong maybe, lol, but it's just cool to be more open and direct with users I thinkFeb 03 22:19
XRevan86Guest57050: Looks like Robin Broda thought the same, after 35-27=8 days :)Feb 03 22:20
Guest57050Robin Broda?Feb 03 22:20
XRevan86Guest57050: The name attributed to the announcement %)Feb 03 22:20
Guest57050Yes, I just sawFeb 03 22:21
Guest57050that was a couple of weeks after it was being usedFeb 03 22:21
XRevan86Wait, there was 03 22:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Arch Linux - News: Required update to recent libarchiveFeb 03 22:21
XRevan86so there was an announcement beforehandFeb 03 22:21
Guest57050no, I was running arch (an installer) before xmas, and it was on my system at least mid decemberFeb 03 22:22
XRevan86> 2019-10-16 OctoberFeb 03 22:22
Guest57050it was supposed to be 27th dec when zstd formally began being usedFeb 03 22:23
Guest57050I don't know about october, but could well beFeb 03 22:23
Guest57050I remember reading that on the 27th it would start, but I could see it installed alreadyFeb 03 22:24
DaemonFC[m]Fedora is usually pretty solid despite being a testbed aimed at developers and power users.Feb 03 22:25
XRevan86Guest57050: That announcement was two months beforeFeb 03 22:25
XRevan86To make sure everyone's able to unhardcode xzip evidently.Feb 03 22:25
DaemonFC[m]But Linux 5.3.11+ and Linux 5.4.x really shit the bed on Intel systems.Feb 03 22:25
DaemonFC[m]Linux 5.5 is looking better from what I can tell.Feb 03 22:25
Guest57050yes, seeing kernel issues quite badly ... about to try out pclinuxos and that is running the latest (normally I use LTS)Feb 03 22:25
Guest57050hopefully they fix the kernel, as am seeing ppl say it's an easy fix, one line of code, but not being doneFeb 03 22:26
DaemonFC[m]Occasionally you get an entire kernel series that's just a complete lemon.Feb 03 22:26
DaemonFC[m]And that happened in 5.4.Feb 03 22:26
Guest57050weird. maybe the 2 ms kernel ppl, and heavens know what other corporate code! Feb 03 22:26
DaemonFC[m]I never used PCLinuxOS.Feb 03 22:27
Guest57050yes?Feb 03 22:27
DaemonFC[m]Mandrake/Mandriva, Red Hat Linux, Fedora, Ubuntu are what I mostly have used over the years.Feb 03 22:27
Guest57050it's sysV, and has a remaster function ... I'd tried it a year or so ago, but install issues, so fingers crossedFeb 03 22:27
DaemonFC[m]Debian 6 was awful and way too complicated for a desktop role.Feb 03 22:27
Guest57050I haven't used those distros, but pclinuxos is based on mandrakeFeb 03 22:27
DaemonFC[m]If you told Sabayon to install a package in 2007 it would be finishing up right about now.Feb 03 22:28
Guest57050have run mint, then neptune for a while ... had some debian/kernel issues thereFeb 03 22:28
DaemonFC[m]Mint is not good. I don't like Mint.Feb 03 22:28
Guest57050so to manjaro, then arch installer for a while ... actually runs best of all, and no breakageFeb 03 22:28
DaemonFC[m]Fedora has a Cinnamon spin.Feb 03 22:28
Guest57050mint seemed to change about 2 years ago, to become a bit more complex, less beginner-friendlyFeb 03 22:29
DaemonFC[m]The quality of the spins is hit or miss but Cinnamon probably works fine.Feb 03 22:29
Guest57050I tried fedora once, but it really messed up my hard drive, lolFeb 03 22:29
Guest57050cinnamon's nice though, definitelyFeb 03 22:29
-->chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc34:6300:3801:76c2:bfe0:1077) has joined #techrightsFeb 03 22:29
Guest57050really polishedFeb 03 22:29
DaemonFC[m]It's closer to GNOME and the apps are GTK. So Cinnamon is normally in better shape than KDE.Feb 03 22:29
DaemonFC[m]Ubuntu could have apparently killer poked the bios on the laptop I use now.Feb 03 22:30
Guest57050yes, definitely. prefer gtk. kde's a lot better than it was, much lighter, but so many moving partsFeb 03 22:30
Guest57050oh no ... that's badFeb 03 22:30
DaemonFC[m]I was just lucky that I always used Fedora on it since Ubuntu didn't have a wifi driver when I was testing it.Feb 03 22:31
DaemonFC[m]Ubuntu packaged the Intel SPI driver which would cause the firmware to become read only.Feb 03 22:31
Guest57050yes, the infamous wifi driver ... surprising all distros don't just bundle that oneFeb 03 22:31
DaemonFC[m]Some people said that it also made it impossible to boot their laptop again.Feb 03 22:31
Guest57050ubuntu need to give their heads a shakeFeb 03 22:31
XRevan86Guest57050: Back to toolkits, I've dealt with GTK a lot and with Qt slightly, and I can tell that Qt is a lot more reliable as it doesn't fall apart so much with new releases. And from an UX perspective, Qt5 themes don't fall apart as well. QGtk2Style is still available even, I use it.Feb 03 22:32
Guest57050yes, saw that a while back, ppl's machines borked ... shockingFeb 03 22:32
DaemonFC[m]That's what happens when you blindly build staging drivers without the slightest idea of what you're trying to do. Feb 03 22:32
DaemonFC[m]But that's Canonical for you.Feb 03 22:32
Guest57050good it runs well on your system. Feb 03 22:32
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 22:32
Guest57050yes, very canonicalFeb 03 22:33
-->smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsFeb 03 22:33
Guest57050so what are you going to do about the bios?Feb 03 22:33
DaemonFC[m]Fedora includes some when they enable a ton of hardware or something, but jt does not build all of staging, and this is why.Feb 03 22:33
DaemonFC[m]Leave it alone. Considering Lenovo never fixed it anyway.Feb 03 22:33
Guest57050machine's running okay though?Feb 03 22:34
DaemonFC[m]I bought my husband a Chromebook with the Linux subsystem. He loves it.Feb 03 22:34
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, other than Linux 5.4 and 5.3.11+ being shit.Feb 03 22:34
Guest57050oh no, we keep hitting topics where I have such a different opinion ... sorry. Feb 03 22:34
DaemonFC[m]I version locked her at 5.3.10. It works fine. I'll remove the lock when my GPU power management works again.Feb 03 22:35
Guest57050You're a girl, DaemonFC? I am tooFeb 03 22:35
DaemonFC[m]5.5 probably. Feb 03 22:35
XRevan86Guest57050: No, he's not.Feb 03 22:35
DaemonFC[m]Oh no, guy.Feb 03 22:35
Guest57050oh!Feb 03 22:35
Guest57050sorryFeb 03 22:35
Guest57050yes, these new kernels are certainly doing something not rightFeb 03 22:36
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, if I was in Russia I'd be arrested for so many things.Feb 03 22:36
Guest57050hopefully it fixesFeb 03 22:36
Guest57050don't worry about itFeb 03 22:36
XRevan86Assumed a gender! Get her up against the wall!Feb 03 22:36
Guest57050lol!Feb 03 22:36
DaemonFC[m]Including spreading vile homosexual propaganda by existing apparently. Feb 03 22:36
Guest57050I'll get ready for the knock on the door, lolFeb 03 22:36
Guest57050omgFeb 03 22:37
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: Well, it's not THAT badFeb 03 22:37
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: just existing doesn't cut itFeb 03 22:37
Guest57050an innocent errorFeb 03 22:37
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: But if you make a banner, that probably wouldFeb 03 22:37
DaemonFC[m]Except for the concentration camp in Chechnya it's not that bad.Feb 03 22:37
DaemonFC[m]Fucking Muslims. Feb 03 22:37
Guest57050lolFeb 03 22:37
Guest57050omgFeb 03 22:38
DaemonFC[m]See, now I'd be arrested by the Politeness Nazis in the UK.Feb 03 22:38
XRevan86Chechña, right.Feb 03 22:38
Guest57050fuck 'emFeb 03 22:38
XRevan86The home of the propaganda law is St. Petersburg, which is where I am, so that's what I thought of.Feb 03 22:38
Guest57050life's too short for all the pc/non-pc stuffFeb 03 22:38
DaemonFC[m]That's like saying Christians are less unpleasant than Muslims because they don't send you a bomb in the mail when you draw Jesus.Feb 03 22:39
XRevan86The Chechña situation is completely outside the framework of… law.Feb 03 22:39
DaemonFC[m]Even by Russian standards. Feb 03 22:39
XRevan86And there are Muslim states in Russia that are nothing like Chechña.Feb 03 22:39
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: Even by Russian standards, yes. And that's saying something.Feb 03 22:40
DaemonFC[m]Everyone in Chechnya looks like they fuck goats anyway. Feb 03 22:40
DaemonFC[m]What's with the beards?Feb 03 22:40
XRevan86But I don't know enough about Chechña to competently discuss their situation, which is pretty complicated, also because of the Russo-Chechen war(s)Feb 03 22:42
Guest57050good to chat, guys, and thanks for the links ... will go read them/investigate pclinuxos. Feb 03 22:42
Guest57050byeFeb 03 22:42
XRevan86Guest57050: byeFeb 03 22:42
Guest57050:-)Feb 03 22:43
<--Guest57050 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 03 22:43
<--Firee has quit (Quit: lolmoi)Feb 03 22:43
XRevan86It's probably the most militarist region of the RF.Feb 03 22:43
XRevan86and the path of pacification that's been chosen is… money and a cart-blancheFeb 03 22:44
XRevan86also the most autonomous region with a person in charge who's building a cult of personality heavy even by Putin's standards.Feb 03 22:45
XRevan86The cult of Putin's personality in Chechña is also backed up, of course.Feb 03 22:45
<--smnthermes ( has left #techrightsFeb 03 22:48
XRevan86DaemonFC[m]: For instance, a neighbouring region to Chechña, Ingushetia, is also dominantly Muslim, but I haven't heard stories like that from there.Feb 03 22:51
XRevan86What I do hear about is rallies, because Ingushetia is giving a strip of land to Chechña for no benefits to IngushetiaFeb 03 22:51
XRevan86and that the people involved in the rallies are being officially recognised as extremistsFeb 03 22:52
XRevan86by the authoritiesFeb 03 22:52
psydroidwhat about Dagestan and Abkhazia?Feb 03 22:59
XRevan86Abkhazia is not part of Russia technicallyFeb 03 23:00
XRevan86and it's predominantly Christian, I just checkedFeb 03 23:01
XRevan86But I can't think of anything these regions can be infamous for.Feb 03 23:03
DaemonFC[m]Dagestan is where the Boston Marathon bombers were from. Feb 03 23:05
XRevan86';Feb 03 23:05
DaemonFC[m]Including the one that got the death sentence and then apologized to the victims after the sentencing. Feb 03 23:06
*XRevan86 looked it up: KyrgyzstanFeb 03 23:07
<--razielle_tzu has quit (Quit: what does this....)Feb 03 23:09
*XRevan86 also sees mentions of Dagestan and KazakhstanFeb 03 23:09
XRevan86> As children, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar lived in Tokmok, Kyrgyzstan. In 2001, the family moved to Makhachkala, Dagestan, in the Russian Federation. In April 2002, the Tsarnaev parents and Dzhokhar went to the United States on a 90-day tourist visa. Anzor Tsarnaev applied for asylum, citing fears of deadly persecution due to his ties to ChechnyaFeb 03 23:09
XRevan86As far as I know none of those countries are fundamentalist states, with Chechña as the closest to that.Feb 03 23:11
<--chomwitt has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)Feb 03 23:13
XRevan86I wonder where I can learn more about women and gay rights in Dagestan… I am not aware of any controversies at least.Feb 03 23:14
XRevan86Dagestan is the closest after Chechña to have the kind of traditional Caucasian culture, as far as I knowFeb 03 23:16
<--_inky has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)Feb 03 23:24
-->_inky (~inky@ has joined #techrightsFeb 03 23:25
MinceR 03 23:41

Generated by 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!