Join us now at the IRC channel.
| cubexyz | win7 worked, but M$ doesn't make enough money from it so it had to go | Jan 14 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| MinceR | good to know it worked for someone | Jan 14 00:04 |
| MinceR | certainly didn't for me | Jan 14 00:04 |
| MinceR | they even broke cygwin sshd for teh lulz | Jan 14 00:04 |
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| cubexyz | well win7 is still closed source crap, so I'm not going to defend it | Jan 14 01:22 |
| cubexyz | I'm just noticing the forced upgrade cycle | Jan 14 01:23 |
| cubexyz | ditto for cars, tvs, etc | Jan 14 01:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Windows 7 worked better than 10. | Jan 14 02:02 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Pico-ITX SBC jump-starts the mighty i.MX8 QuadMax http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132840 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5198b1d9-c933-43f2-8c35-68b10b6b0604] | Jan 14 02:02 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | Windows 10 looked like someone tossed all of the GUIs and control panels everyone used in a blender, drank it, and then threw up. | Jan 14 02:02 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Why Should You Use Linux? http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132841 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e78857b4-4745-44c5-b9ce-06f36e2c6a03] | Jan 14 02:03 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Looking At The Linux Performance Two Years After Spectre / Meltdown Mitigations http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132842 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f1484ce7-c205-4fb2-8d44-11376eadbbf9] | Jan 14 02:05 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu’s Unity Desktop Lives On http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132843 [https://pleroma.site/objects/82ba56bf-c271-419c-b353-c3b7b3369a0c] | Jan 14 02:06 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132844 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fb692858-f82d-4518-bf31-96822e5cdbea] | Jan 14 02:07 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Git 2.25 Released http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132845 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d26818e1-960f-46be-86d2-552e8a9c6120] | Jan 14 02:16 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows/Screencasts: Python Podcast, Linux Headlines, OpenMandriva 4.1 Beta and ArcoLinux 20.1 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132846 [https://pleroma.site/objects/330166bc-20ae-4148-b4fe-bff3992b10b2] | Jan 14 02:39 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Intel and AMD in Linux: Intel Uncore Frequency, Per-Client Engine Busyness, Navi GPUs http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132847 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a33ae28d-4a7b-46f8-b268-f22851e192af] | Jan 14 02:49 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132848 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f5466e79-01f4-4f69-a210-a74394f8165e] | Jan 14 02:59 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla on Synthesizing Loop-Free Programs with Rust and Z3 and on Privacy http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132849 [https://pleroma.site/objects/bd483742-a1cb-400d-b5ce-b3b981cf0ca5] | Jan 14 03:02 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Python Programming Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132851 [https://pleroma.site/objects/682ff840-a592-4858-adb0-71ca89cc3610] | Jan 14 03:06 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: Patches, Flaws and ZDNet FUD http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132850 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6ed063f1-4b3e-4e1b-9376-23d6de1a7dbc] | Jan 14 03:06 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: this is how tech now goes | Jan 14 03:08 |
| schestowitz | getting worse over time | Jan 14 03:09 |
| schestowitz | bigger button | Jan 14 03:09 |
| schestowitz | smaller screens | Jan 14 03:09 |
| schestowitz | fewer features | Jan 14 03:09 |
| schestowitz | more bloat | Jan 14 03:09 |
| schestowitz | more spying | Jan 14 03:09 |
| schestowitz | users not served, just used | Jan 14 03:09 |
| schestowitz | it's the new "bizniz model" | Jan 14 03:09 |
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| schestowitz | > FYI: | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | > On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 12:38 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | >> | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | >> After reading your message, I am not sure what concrete changes you | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | >> suggest. Could you please be more concrete? | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | I think this is a fair thing for him to say. | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | I think you can follow up with a list of suggestions, a potential course for action. | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | I am also working to get RMS 'reintegrated'... even if he does not value the methods. | Jan 14 03:42 |
| schestowitz | >> (to figosdev) hows this: | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | >> | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | >> Richard, | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | >> | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | >> Technology companies in general are in the business of imposing artificial controls on the creative marketplace, much like DeBeers is with their diamonds. Thus we have copyrights, and patents, and even more sophisticated forms of control and coercion. GPL licensing is a legal and partial solution to the issues we face, yet entities which strive to profit in the realm of “intellectual property” do not restrict themselves to the domain | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | of Law. So, I suggest that the Free Software movement focus additionally, more strongly, upon its roots - the users/developers, and their actual practice on the ground. The on-the-ground nexus of community, programming, and system development is where the enemies of software freedom are now staking their claims: GitHub. | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | >> | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | >> GitHub is the prime location of one type of corporate control which must be addressed. You probably understand that “GitHub” properly, ideally, should be something provided by the Free Software Foundation. Savannah was a brilliant platform, at the time, but now GitHub provides much more real-time interactivity along with strong elements from social media. Seeing GitHub as a type of social media, with a centralized platform, it is easy | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | to see how Microsoft benefits from its users very much like Facebook does from its users: the loss of users’ privacy, with the concomitant collection of usage information gives Microsoft a powerful and insightful position over the development and marketing of Free Software. Another concern about GitHub is that it provides a direct avenue for censorship of software development. If you think that this might be far-fetched, you need only see | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | that GitHub has already been forced to reject software from people working from countries that are being sanctioned by the US government. It is not a leap to imagine that this might be only a beginning. | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | >> | Jan 14 03:48 |
| schestowitz | >> So what to do, specifically? It seems clear to me that the Free Software Foundation, or maybe Gnu Org. should embark on developing and implementing a direct and successful competitor to GitHub, geared specifically toward providing software freedom. | Jan 14 03:48 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNU/Linux Devices and Open Hardware http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132852 [https://pleroma.site/objects/43f2cf3f-3cfb-49fe-aab4-336576ede841] | Jan 14 03:50 | |
| schestowitz | Got this feedback on the Gates series | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | it has spread fast: | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > I was pretty careful to not make any claims. | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > Main goal was to alert people that the investigation is happening and to watch your multi-part series for reporting on it. | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > Hopefully you’re seeing some new eyes. I got a good start this morning with traffic. Some of it carried over to Facebook, where I have zero presence. Waiting for just one account with a large following to pick up on it. | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > I know a few people who told me they shared it with some key influential people who have worked on the Epstein stuff. | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > I’ve seen nothing but good responses so far. | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | > How in the world is that nobody has done any of this yet? Those court files just sitting there?? | Jan 14 04:23 |
| schestowitz | Just because everyone around you lies does not mean you should refrain from expounding truth. | Jan 14 04:30 |
| schestowitz | And you know what? If you're the only one sticking to facts (not PR), you might be rewarded with a "monopoly" on the true story. It's not too hard to refute lies; it's hard to refute truths, so the typical tactic is, demonise the messenger or block/silence/deplatform. | Jan 14 04:30 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | I think that in the current legal climate, piracy is perfectly ethical. | Jan 14 05:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Just don't get caught. | Jan 14 05:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Patents and copyrights go on for too long to ever expect to enjoy most works in our lifetime without restrictions. | Jan 14 05:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So it's more ethical for pirates to remove DRM than it is for companies like Disney and Sony to impose it. | Jan 14 05:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | 20 years is too long on tech patents because the technology will certainly be so old as to be irrelevant by the time people get to use it unrestricted. | Jan 14 05:03 |
| DaemonFC[m] | If they went on for 10 years, H264 would be open now and H265 wouldn't be, so you wouldn't have the best technology, but you'd have one that was usable. | Jan 14 05:04 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: OSS Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132853 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ce3fdea8-31ce-49f1-8545-949ae6309a67] | Jan 14 05:15 | |
| schestowitz | the gates series is not mentioned in some rather awkward sites | Jan 14 06:06 |
| schestowitz | outside our control who links to it | Jan 14 06:06 |
| schestowitz | even though we stick to facts | Jan 14 06:06 |
| schestowitz | some jump ahead to wrong conclusions | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | > That’s great. | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | > I’ll work on a new short blog post that is a call to action for people to join you in the open source investigation. And I'll point people to start following you on your 10 part series. | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | > Then I’ll do something on Twitter to get people alerted. | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | > | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | > I would order all the "Case Setting Info" documents that was dated prior to Seattle PI’s article 12/31/14. That way you have everything they had and can see what they left out. | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | That sounds like an excellent plan. I did lots of communicating/communication with victims today. I might publish another part in the morning. The hard thing is deciding what to say when and whether every sentence can be defended with facts/evidence. | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | some people now wrong assert it therefore mean gates himself is a pedophile | Jan 14 06:07 |
| schestowitz | rather than what was actually said | Jan 14 06:07 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Openwashing Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132854 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ffd87504-3d09-4a42-afa1-8fce2a996bfc] | Jan 14 06:09 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora, Red Hat and IBM: FSTRIM, Java APIs and DAX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132855 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4990d5d7-8a22-47e9-8cb5-a34cf164d1bb] | Jan 14 06:12 | |
| schestowitz | > Iran might be closing off all or parts of the country from the Internet. | Jan 14 06:33 |
| schestowitz | Can't blame them... | Jan 14 06:33 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Thomas Grzybowski’s explanation of why GitHub poses a risk to software freedom and what can be done about it http://techrights.org/2020/01/14/need-better-savannah/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/78a84939-b174-46fa-b483-bb713fc416ab] | Jan 14 09:35 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GtkSourceView on GTK 4 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132858 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2546d814-5a5d-4cd0-adf7-6b9de424245f] | Jan 14 10:05 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Programming: Java, R, and Raku/Perl http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132859 [https://pleroma.site/objects/58a2a3e8-43b6-4ba0-ae7c-673b3f756cd4] | Jan 14 10:15 | |
| scientes | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Ted_Face_the_Music | Jan 14 10:46 |
| scientes | wut | Jan 14 10:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Bill & Ted Face the Music - Wikipedia | Jan 14 10:46 | |
| scientes | they make sequals of everything | Jan 14 10:46 |
| scientes | they even got Keanu Reeves again | Jan 14 10:47 |
| scientes | an older Keanu | Jan 14 10:47 |
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| scientes | why don't they ever have NEW ideas? | Jan 14 10:52 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Isn't writing a song to save the world a new idea? | Jan 14 10:53 |
| scientes | no, i'm talking about making a sequal to a movie 20 years later | Jan 14 10:54 |
| XRevan86 | Totally didn't see that in Mars Attacks, Rick&Morty… | Jan 14 10:54 |
| scientes | 30 years later | Jan 14 10:54 |
| pankkake | movies will entirely be generated by computers soon | Jan 14 10:55 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Root User in Ubuntu: Important Things You Should Know http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132860 [https://pleroma.site/objects/92de0a09-a40d-4d64-89fa-23deee7cc805] | Jan 14 10:55 | |
| scientes | pankkake, without any human input | Jan 14 10:55 |
| pankkake | yep | Jan 14 10:55 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: If it works, I don't have a problem with that. | Jan 14 10:56 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Must Read: 5 Best Linux Distros for Windows 7 Users http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132861 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5b201ac2-12dd-4587-bebd-a7ec3bbae2ba] | Jan 14 10:57 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Soyuzmulfilm made a cartoon series sequel to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_from_Prostokvashino | Jan 14 10:59 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Three from Prostokvashino - Wikipedia | Jan 14 10:59 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: As long as the sequel in question isn't an abomination like that, I can manage. | Jan 14 10:59 |
| scientes | at my hostel some russians were watching an old soviet cartoon | Jan 14 11:00 |
| scientes | with a fuzzy bear | Jan 14 11:00 |
| scientes | looked alot like winnie the pooh to me | Jan 14 11:00 |
| scientes | especially as he had a side-kick similar to eor | Jan 14 11:01 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It must be Winnie the Pooh %) | Jan 14 11:01 |
| XRevan86 | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnie-the-Pooh_(1969_film) | Jan 14 11:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.m.wikipedia.org | Winnie-the-Pooh (1969 film) - Wikipedia | Jan 14 11:01 | |
| scientes | lol | Jan 14 11:01 |
| scientes | when i said it was winnie the pooh they laughed at me | Jan 14 11:02 |
| scientes | as in "of course not" | Jan 14 11:02 |
| scientes | because i recognized the personalities | Jan 14 11:05 |
| scientes | of winnie | Jan 14 11:05 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I don't know how to explain that :) | Jan 14 11:06 |
| scientes | they both knew all the words | Jan 14 11:07 |
| scientes | yeah now that i'm watching it it obviously is winnie pooh | Jan 14 11:07 |
| scientes | I only saw a small part, where he didn't have that name... | Jan 14 11:08 |
| scientes | its so much more philosophical | Jan 14 11:09 |
| scientes | "why do bees exist?" "to make honey." "why does honey exist?" | Jan 14 11:09 |
| scientes | "for me to eat." | Jan 14 11:10 |
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| psydroid | Russian Winnie the Pooh is awesome | Jan 14 11:32 |
| scientes | yes it is | Jan 14 11:36 |
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| *XRevan86 re-watches it as well. | Jan 14 11:52 | |
| MinceR | "Our music is sampled, totally fake / It's done by machines 'cause they don't make mistakes" | Jan 14 11:53 |
| XRevan86 | Sie ist ein Modell und sie sieht gut aus | Jan 14 11:54 |
| XRevan86 | sorry | Jan 14 11:54 |
| MinceR | :) | Jan 14 11:55 |
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| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2020/01/04/6e769c1916556412.jpg | Jan 14 12:05 |
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| schestowitz | https://namelyliberty.com/join-the-open-source-investigation-now-into-the-media-blackout-on-bill-melinda-gatess-house-employee-arrested-at-the-gates-mansion-for-possessing-over-6000-images-of-child-porn-and-was-con/ | Jan 14 12:20 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-namelyliberty.com | Join the Open Source Investigation NOW! Into the Media Blackout on Bill & Melinda Gates’s House Employee Arrested at the Gates Mansion For Possessing Over 6000 Images of Child Porn and Was Convicted - NAMELY LIBERTY | Jan 14 12:21 | |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: nice cat | Jan 14 12:31 |
| schestowitz | wonder if there's a family relation between those two | Jan 14 12:32 |
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| rianne | https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/new-mum-left-tears-orangutans-21271572 | Jan 14 12:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.mirror.co.uk | New mum left in tears by orangutan's display of compassion while she breastfeeds baby - World News - Mirror Online | Jan 14 12:57 | |
| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2020/01/04/a851e4392ab9d189.jpg | Jan 14 13:02 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Tails 4.2.2 is out http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132870 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a43c19c3-f760-438b-bff5-51374b81f3f1] | Jan 14 13:49 | |
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| oiaohm | lca 2020 videos are starting on youtube. | Jan 14 14:16 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | > why don't they ever have NEW ideas? | Jan 14 14:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | There's no new ideas because there's basically nothing new. | Jan 14 14:38 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It was called the golden age of animation in the early 20th century because it was the first time they had it. | Jan 14 14:38 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], I'm sorry but they had animation when Plato wrote down the Republic | Jan 14 14:39 |
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| scientes | or rather shadow puppets | Jan 14 14:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | People were a bit different back then that you had to build a story or make it funny in some way that was well thought out, and they had to do it within a moral code. | Jan 14 14:39 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | Rick & Morty doesn't really work for things. | Jan 14 14:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It's a nihilistic fart and poop joke. | Jan 14 14:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | If you make people wait as you build a story, you lose ratings because people don't have a good attention span. | Jan 14 14:40 |
| scientes | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdoTdG_VNV4 | Jan 14 14:40 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Sugar Plum Fairy by Tchaikovsky - GlassDuo LIVE (glass harp) - YouTube | Jan 14 14:41 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | There's a continuity between episodes, but it's not really what makes the show work. | Jan 14 14:41 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Like, you know they've dimension hopped a couple times, but it hardly matters. | Jan 14 14:42 |
| scientes | ^if only they had that video in 1990 no one would have realized the USSR collapsed | Jan 14 14:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Everyone just used Russia as a shorthand anyway. | Jan 14 14:43 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Communists are the worst for country names that need more than one breath to finish saying. | Jan 14 14:43 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Like 90% of it was Russia anyway, especially if you consider that the Baltic states were literally captured and illegally assimilated. | Jan 14 14:45 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Russia is infamous for illegally invading and annexing. | Jan 14 14:46 |
| smnthermes | > schestowitz has written: | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | > DaemonFC[m]: this is how tech now goes | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | > getting worse over time | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | > bigger button | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | > smaller screens | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | > fewer features | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | > more bloat | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | > more spying | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | > users not served, just used | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | > it's the new "bizniz model" | Jan 14 14:48 |
| smnthermes | At least for browsers there's Pale Moon against the dumbing down effect | Jan 14 14:48 |
| scientes | or you can just run Firefox | Jan 14 14:49 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | Pale Moon is a mess. | Jan 14 14:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It supports a bunch of old style extensions that nobody is maintaining or is even sure still work. | Jan 14 14:59 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And not even all of those work. And mlst have bugs. | Jan 14 14:59 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Most | Jan 14 14:59 |
| DaemonFC[m] | There's no legacy operating system support, so with XP you're much better off with the latest Seamonkey. | Jan 14 15:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Their server was breached and malware was added to the installers last year, apparently. | Jan 14 15:01 |
| oiaohm | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5hl0fqA0Bc&list=PLD8dAKx4J2I7pzm1pjAcreW4p7SWaXcGO&index=46 << this is a good watch | Jan 14 15:13 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-"Samba 2020: Why are we still in the 1980s for authentication?" - Andrew Bartlett (LCA 2020) - YouTube | Jan 14 15:13 | |
| MinceR | because you're reimplementing a microsloth protocol? | Jan 14 15:13 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: its a good watch because it documents how old and out of date it is. | Jan 14 15:20 |
| oiaohm | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv4tI6939q0 this is a good keynote. | Jan 14 15:21 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-"Keynote: Drop Your Tools – Does Expertise have a Dark Side?" - Dr Sean Brady (LCA 2020) - YouTube | Jan 14 15:21 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | Nobody has explained how Palpatine came back, really. | Jan 14 15:26 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The light side of the force, you come back as a force ghost because part of you lives on like that. | Jan 14 15:27 |
| MinceR | he had clones on Byss | Jan 14 15:27 |
| MinceR | and his spirit went to inhabit one of them :> | Jan 14 15:27 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR So, about Pope Benedict....😁 | Jan 14 15:28 |
| MinceR | :> | Jan 14 15:28 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Is that from the Extended Universe? | Jan 14 15:28 |
| MinceR | yes | Jan 14 15:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Seriously, looks like he's about to cast force lightning. | Jan 14 15:28 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC[m]: aka Sidious II | Jan 14 15:28 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Not Disney canon | Jan 14 15:28 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: who cares about disney? | Jan 14 15:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | How does Pope Emeritus work anyway? | Jan 14 15:29 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: You're discussing their film | Jan 14 15:29 |
| XRevan86 | that film where he's back cares | Jan 14 15:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | If Benedict contradicts Francis, who wins? | Jan 14 15:29 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: then ask them :> | Jan 14 15:29 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC[m]: they should decide in Thunderdome | Jan 14 15:29 |
| MinceR | two men enter, one man leaves! | Jan 14 15:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | This just highlights that the Catholic church is in schism. It was obvious when they pushed Palpatine into early retirement. | Jan 14 15:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But now he's back and trying to upstage the current Pope. | Jan 14 15:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Little rude, yeah? | Jan 14 15:30 |
| scientes | DaemonFC[m], overwhelming people don't care | Jan 14 15:31 |
| scientes | even in South America | Jan 14 15:31 |
| MinceR | i don't mind that they're infighting, i just want them to go the fuck away already | Jan 14 15:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://www.flickr.com/photos/22320444@N08/4104386367 | Jan 14 15:31 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Flickr | Jan 14 15:31 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | Palpatine explained his disfigurement as a result of an attack by Jedi traitors. | Jan 14 15:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | An idea that was hardly believable, but by that time it didn't matter since he had tricked the Senate into giving him an army that would kill them if he told it to. | Jan 14 15:34 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But why would the clones be disfigured? | Jan 14 15:34 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He got the force lightning injury from it reflecting off a lightsaber. | Jan 14 15:35 |
| MinceR | depends on when and how he was "cloned", i guess | Jan 14 15:35 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: A stylistic choice? | Jan 14 15:36 |
| XRevan86 | Come, my clone, you're ready for your make-over. | Jan 14 15:36 |
| XRevan86 | *zaps* | Jan 14 15:36 |
| MinceR | could just be a side-effect of being strong in the dark side | Jan 14 15:38 |
| XRevan86 | The dark side propagates skin injuries to all forks? | Jan 14 15:39 |
| MinceR | in that case it wouldn't really be an injury | Jan 14 15:39 |
| MinceR | more like stuff like red or yellow eyes and pale skin seen on other sith lords | Jan 14 15:39 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Is that a description of a roleplaying nerd? | Jan 14 15:41 |
| MinceR | probably not | Jan 14 15:41 |
| MinceR | did roleplaying nerds exist when george lucas came up with this? | Jan 14 15:41 |
| XRevan86 | https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/m/#!msg/blink-dev/-2JIRNMWJ7s/yHe4tQNLCgAJ | Jan 14 15:53 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-groups.google.com | Google Groups | Jan 14 15:53 | |
| XRevan86 | > Chromium: Intent to Deprecate and Freeze: The User-Agent string | Jan 14 15:53 |
| XRevan86 | Ambitious | Jan 14 15:54 |
| scientes | Such sites will need to migrate to use UA-CH. | Jan 14 15:55 |
| scientes | XRevan86, they are just replacing it with something incompatible | Jan 14 15:55 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: yes | Jan 14 15:57 |
| scientes | also doesn't say if YouTube is planned to work with Firefox | Jan 14 15:57 |
| scientes | cause it currently only works because of UA sniffiing | Jan 14 15:57 |
| *XRevan86 opened https://youtube.com/supported_browsers | Jan 14 15:58 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-YouTube | Jan 14 15:58 | |
| scientes | XRevan86, change your UA agent to empty of chrome in firefox | Jan 14 15:58 |
| XRevan86 | The older Firefox logo is better -_- | Jan 14 15:58 |
| scientes | and then try to use youtube | Jan 14 15:58 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I don't have any | Jan 14 15:59 |
| XRevan86 | I thought you mean the compatibility list that Firefox now has | Jan 14 15:59 |
| XRevan86 | I forgot how that's called or how to check it | Jan 14 16:00 |
| scientes | I mean, set useragent.override to a chrome UA in Firefox | Jan 14 16:00 |
| scientes | and then try to use youtube.com | Jan 14 16:00 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I'm not insane, I know it has some crazy extended crap for Blink. | Jan 14 16:00 |
| scientes | lol https://github.com/mozilla/webcompat-addon/blob/master/src/injections/js/bug1472075-bankofamerica.com-ua-change.js | Jan 14 16:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-webcompat-addon/bug1472075-bankofamerica.com-ua-change.js at master · mozilla/webcompat-addon · GitHub | Jan 14 16:01 | |
| XRevan86 | that's the one… | Jan 14 16:02 |
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| scientes | that's the disfunction of the USA for you | Jan 14 16:03 |
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| XRevan86 | scientes: That's a very special kind of not caring. | Jan 14 16:12 |
| scientes | someone should make a javascript based return of the <blink> element | Jan 14 16:12 |
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| scientes | oh woah, it can be done entirely with css | Jan 14 16:13 |
| MinceR | can marquee be done in css too? | Jan 14 16:13 |
| scientes | that one was so much woorse | Jan 14 16:13 |
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| scientes | god damn it | Jan 14 16:27 |
| scientes | my mouse is broken | Jan 14 16:27 |
| scientes | I guess this is a touch screen..... | Jan 14 16:27 |
| scientes | ewww, no two finger scrolling | Jan 14 16:28 |
| scientes | aparently multi-touch is still sucky on linux | Jan 14 16:28 |
| MinceR | strange, seems to work fine on my android devices :> | Jan 14 16:30 |
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| danielp3344 | scientes: need wayland for that | Jan 14 16:30 |
| danielp3344 | It's amazing on GNOME | Jan 14 16:30 |
| scientes | oretty sure i'm using wayland | Jan 14 16:30 |
| MinceR | pretty sure it works fine on SurfaceFlinger | Jan 14 16:31 |
| danielp3344 | scientes: what DE? | Jan 14 16:31 |
| scientes | Type=wayland | Jan 14 16:31 |
| scientes | ubuntu 19.10 | Jan 14 16:31 |
| scientes | gnome | Jan 14 16:31 |
| scientes | MinceR, android pisses me off so much | Jan 14 16:31 |
| MinceR | proves it isn't the kernel's fault though | Jan 14 16:32 |
| MinceR | also, i don't know what you expected from waylandows and gnome | Jan 14 16:32 |
| XRevan86 | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Flenta.ru%2Fnews%2F2020%2F01%2F14%2Fanomalia%2F lol | Jan 14 16:32 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-translate.google.com | Google Translate | Jan 14 16:32 | |
| scientes | MinceR, android also has a HAL for non-kernel non-free drivers.... | Jan 14 16:32 |
| scientes | XRevan86, I wondered if this was one of those Russian anti-news sites for a second | Jan 14 16:33 |
| MinceR | is that necessary for multitouch? | Jan 14 16:33 |
| scientes | MinceR, no it isn't | Jan 14 16:33 |
| XRevan86 | "A senator of the State Duma said that one of the reasons for the anomalously warm winter could be climate weaponry of the US" | Jan 14 16:34 |
| scientes | yeah i read that | Jan 14 16:34 |
| scientes | I have the feeling they are trying to make everyone think they are crazy | Jan 14 16:34 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 14 16:35 |
| scientes | which is actually not that bad of a strategy | Jan 14 16:35 |
| scientes | chinese have been doing it for decades | Jan 14 16:35 |
| scientes | they still pretend that they don't have technology | Jan 14 16:35 |
| XRevan86 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksey_Zhuravlyov_(politician) | Jan 14 16:35 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Aleksey Zhuravlyov (politician) - Wikipedia | Jan 14 16:35 | |
| XRevan86 | that's the guy | Jan 14 16:35 |
| scientes | and are just a bunch of rice farmers | Jan 14 16:35 |
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| XRevan86 | scientes: I don't know about him, so dunno | Jan 14 16:37 |
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| scientes | also, that he is nastolgic for the cold war | Jan 14 16:37 |
| MinceR | did he not notice the second cold war? | Jan 14 16:38 |
| XRevan86 | He is a leader of a minor party that I don't really know much about either | Jan 14 16:38 |
| scientes | pretty funny | Jan 14 16:38 |
| XRevan86 | but everything points to it being a minor nationalistic/"patriotic" bullshit party | Jan 14 16:38 |
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| scientes | its not very patriotic to just blame others | Jan 14 16:39 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: It's that kind of patriotism | Jan 14 16:39 |
| XRevan86 | the "I'm with the president" kind | Jan 14 16:39 |
| scientes | But this theory is franky rediculous | Jan 14 16:39 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: You think? | Jan 14 16:40 |
| scientes | it's as if he is claiming the americans make his shit smell bad | Jan 14 16:40 |
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| XRevan86 | scientes: You know, https://youtu.be/BbXlEWAFYgo | Jan 14 16:41 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Обама ломает новочеркасский трамвай - YouTube | Jan 14 16:41 | |
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| scientes | XRevan86, i saw that before, but i didn't realize it was the opposite of the "thanks obama" meme | Jan 14 16:42 |
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| XRevan86 | scientes: I posted it a few times here before | Jan 14 16:43 |
| psydroid | I am just catching up with articles on Techrights and the letter to RMS caught my attention. I think having a distributed and decentralised alternative to Github (in the vein of Matrix or XMPP for instant messaging) would render Github's whole value proposition (whatever may be left of it) and power grab completely void | Jan 14 16:43 |
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| XRevan86 | scientes: Hm, I guess it kind of is %) | Jan 14 16:43 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Could've developed in parallel :D | Jan 14 16:44 |
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| XRevan86 | scientes: But yes, jokes about Obama being to blame for random misfortunes in Russia have existed for years, and pop up even after he left the office. | Jan 14 16:46 |
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| XRevan86 | scientes: Which I see as a response for accusations made by actual lunatics like NOD | Jan 14 16:46 |
| scientes | but it also is quite similar to the US meme | Jan 14 16:47 |
| scientes | which was just about making fun of people that get too excited about elections | Jan 14 16:47 |
| *XRevan86 saw a small NOD rally on Nevsky prospect on Saturday. Boy I want to punch these guys | Jan 14 16:47 | |
| XRevan86 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Movement_(Russia) | Jan 14 16:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | National Liberation Movement (Russia) - Wikipedia | Jan 14 16:48 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: And they're the absolute "patriots" | Jan 14 16:48 |
| MinceR | Brotherhood of NOD? | Jan 14 16:48 |
| scientes | but making fun of politicians is generally counter-productive | Jan 14 16:49 |
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| scientes | the vinnie poo also covered that sort of | Jan 14 17:03 |
| MinceR | killing them is more productive, but also more difficult | Jan 14 17:03 |
| scientes | when he eats all the honey is bringing as a present to egor, while he is bringing it to him | Jan 14 17:03 |
| MinceR | oh, i thought you were talking about xi jinping | Jan 14 17:03 |
| scientes | and then starts talking about how great a jar it is that he is giving as a present | Jan 14 17:04 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: How'd you translate to English "переобуться" in an idiomatic sense? | Jan 14 17:06 |
| XRevan86 | To change one's positions when it's more advantageous | Jan 14 17:07 |
| MinceR | flip-flopping? | Jan 14 17:07 |
| XRevan86 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-flop_(politics) bingo | Jan 14 17:08 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Flip-flop (politics) - Wikipedia | Jan 14 17:08 | |
| MinceR | being a weathercock, even :> | Jan 14 17:08 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | > can marquee be done in css too? | Jan 14 17:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Yes, it can. | Jan 14 17:17 |
| DaemonFC[m] | There's a few people sticking to Opera 12 because they hate Chrome. | Jan 14 17:18 |
| MinceR | :> | Jan 14 17:18 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | They made one last release that makes the encryption support new enough to work. But only for Windows. | Jan 14 17:18 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR The library in Huntington had Netscape 4 around forever. It was awful. | Jan 14 17:20 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Then one of the librarians accused me of having watched porn the last time I was there. | Jan 14 17:20 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC[m]: mozilla and google will make you miss netscape 4 :> | Jan 14 17:20 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I said, "Right in front of you? Also, how is that even possible with Netscape?" | Jan 14 17:21 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Nah. When I resize the window, Firefox doesn't redraw the entire page, fetching each element from the web server, hang itself, and then crash as a zombie process. | Jan 14 17:25 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Netscape did that. | Jan 14 17:25 |
| DaemonFC[m] | On dial up. | Jan 14 17:25 |
| MinceR | they may yet do it again | Jan 14 17:25 |
| MinceR | or something even worse | Jan 14 17:25 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR I cracked Opera. | Jan 14 17:25 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I started using it at version 3.62 when it fit on a floppy disk. | Jan 14 17:26 |
| DaemonFC[m] | At the time, it was remarkably efficient. | Jan 14 17:26 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Wind River Extends Embedded Security and Linux Leadership with Acquisition of Star Lab https://www.windriver.com/news/press/pr.html?ID=22617 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9f33a4c1-febe-4bda-ae8f-29bab36cee51] | Jan 14 17:27 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | The total installed size of Opera was like 1.2 MB, which for reference was about 30 times snaller than Netscape Communicator 4. | Jan 14 17:27 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Opera didn't have tabs, but it had its own window manager, which was odd. | Jan 14 17:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But you would load web pages and then sort of manage them like Program Manager. It was sort of neat. | Jan 14 17:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | With Netscapr and IE you needed a new window for eaxh page | Jan 14 17:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Then with Opera, the address bar was at the bottom of each page window for some reason. | Jan 14 17:30 |
| MinceR | it might have been the first tabbed browser | Jan 14 17:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | At the time, it mattered. RAM was scarce and loading a whole new instance of the browser for each page sucked. | Jan 14 17:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It also made getting at the page you wanted cumbersome. | Jan 14 17:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Some people said that window grouping on the Windows taskbar was all they needed though. | Jan 14 17:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But by default, Windows didn't group windows until a particular program opened three of them, so it was inconsistent and if you closed some eventually you couldn't read anything on your taskbar. | Jan 14 17:34 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: ‘Disco Dingo’ of Ubuntu to reach end of life: Make sure to upgrade http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132881 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b27bcd7d-2496-4d63-82b9-b37081ff10f5] | Jan 14 17:35 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | Is Unity actually still working? | Jan 14 17:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Unity 8 was apparently taken up by UBports, whatever that it. | Jan 14 17:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Is | Jan 14 17:37 |
| MinceR | it's more of a usability thing | Jan 14 17:38 |
| MinceR | and taskbar grouping sucks | Jan 14 17:38 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Unity 7 was an unholy mess. Compiz 0.9.x was rewritten in C++ and maintained by Canonical. Hundreds of bad patches to GNOME components that were never going to go upstream to hold it together. | Jan 14 17:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Which actually broke GNOME if you tried to use that. | Jan 14 17:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I heard Unity 7 mostly works though even without those patches. | Jan 14 17:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | ZFS? | Jan 14 17:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I'm wondering if Ubuntu 20.04 is any good. | Jan 14 17:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | If I should bother trying it out. If ZFS is worth it. | Jan 14 17:40 |
| MinceR | was unity ever working? | Jan 14 17:40 |
| MinceR | zfs is for those who want to be sued by Law Suit Larry's lawyers | Jan 14 17:40 |
| MinceR | i wonder if it's better designed than slowlaris | Jan 14 17:41 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Phoronix says it loses badly to Ext4 in benchmarks on Ubuntu 19.10. | Jan 14 17:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But I know that upstream Linux sabotaged it with the gpl export on the fpu symbols. | Jan 14 17:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But ZFS on Linux has new code to work around that. | Jan 14 17:43 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I was reading the Linux FPU code for OpenZFS. | Jan 14 17:43 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They put it under the CDDL. | Jan 14 17:43 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They could be putting new code under BSD style licenses.... | Jan 14 17:44 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Now if Oracle did relicense their code GPL, the OpenZFS code would have to be relicensed too. | Jan 14 17:45 |
| DaemonFC[m] | What a mess. | Jan 14 17:45 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It's not as simple as Oracle sending Torvalds a letter allowing it because there's thousands of lines of new CDDL code that Oracle doesn't own. | Jan 14 17:46 |
| MinceR | it's a mess sun created when they came up with the CDDL | Jan 14 17:48 |
| MinceR | also, doesn't slowlaris implement zfs in userspace? and if so, why is that not good enough for linux? | Jan 14 17:48 |
| MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/647596.jpg | Jan 14 17:50 |
| XRevan86 | Explains why (Disney's) Alladin tried to steal a baguette | Jan 14 17:54 |
| DaemonFC[m] | No, ZFS is in the kernel in Solaris. | Jan 14 17:55 |
| XRevan86 | Doesn't ZFSonLinux also have a FUSE implementation? | Jan 14 17:56 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It does. | Jan 14 17:57 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The user kernel context switching is a disaster, especially on Intel with those chip bug mitigations. | Jan 14 17:57 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC[m]: when it comes to patents you would need a letter from Oracle | Jan 14 17:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | When those mitigations slowed the FUSE modules down another 30 percent, the incentive to move ZFS to the kernel went way up. | Jan 14 17:58 |
| oiaohm | With the GPLv2 implied patent license you would need that answered. | Jan 14 17:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | FUSE has ups and downs. | Jan 14 17:59 |
| MinceR | more ups with a driver as bloated as zfs :> | Jan 14 17:59 |
| oiaohm | https://events19.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/When-eBPF-Meets-FUSE-Improving-Performance-of-User-File-Systems-Ashish-Bijlani-Georgia-Tech.pdf | Jan 14 18:00 |
| oiaohm | fuse does not have to be as slow as it use to be either. | Jan 14 18:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | With secure boot, it's hard for the user to load an out of tree module even if there is one, and it has to be changed all the time to keep working. | Jan 14 18:00 |
| MinceR | then don't use "secure boot" | Jan 14 18:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The Reiser4 file system is still out there. | Jan 14 18:00 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | But it has to be bumped to respond to kernel changes. | Jan 14 18:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | If people stop maintaining the module, it won't work with new kernels anymore. | Jan 14 18:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The kernel doesn't guarantee any stability to out of tree drivers, so if it's out of tree you're kind of screwed eventually. | Jan 14 18:02 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The danger is out there that people will use ZFS on Ubuntu 20.04 and then Oracle will sue and Canonical will have to drop the module and it won't even be there throughout 20.04 LTS. | Jan 14 18:03 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Fedora and Red Hat won't go near ZFS and it's because legally it's too dangerous and there's just not much of an upside. | Jan 14 18:04 |
| XRevan86 | And Oracle is that one company that really can | Jan 14 18:05 |
| MinceR | n00buntu users have bigger issues than whether the most "hip" filesystem will be included or not | Jan 14 18:05 |
| MinceR | like freshly installed systems booting into an emergency mode prompt on a virtual console they can't even see | Jan 14 18:05 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | What? | Jan 14 18:05 |
| *MinceR repeats it in all caps | Jan 14 18:06 | |
| oiaohm | Question why is current ZFS from orcale closed source. That is a good question. | Jan 14 18:07 |
| oiaohm | Did Oracle not get the netapp patents to use with open zfs? | Jan 14 18:07 |
| MinceR | because Obstacle is all about abusing its own users/customers | Jan 14 18:07 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: maybe. | Jan 14 18:07 |
| XRevan86 | oiaohm: They closed the whole Solaris | Jan 14 18:07 |
| oiaohm | XRevan86: that could be the same reason netapp does sit on some nicely broad patents. | Jan 14 18:08 |
| oiaohm | Getting exact answer of why out Oracle legal deptment I would think would be pulling teeth. | Jan 14 18:09 |
| MinceR | pretty much any interaction with Obstacle is like pulling teeth | Jan 14 18:10 |
| MinceR | https://ircz.de/p/20010922 | Jan 14 18:11 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object | Jan 14 18:11 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: In the face of an Orangutan http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132882 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d9aabfe4-aed4-426b-b5a8-38862564e0a3] | Jan 14 18:15 | |
| scientes | OpenSolaris | Jan 14 18:36 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: * Illumos | Jan 14 18:37 |
| scientes | when i booted the iso they actually did a pretty good job at it | Jan 14 18:37 |
| scientes | but they knew they were dead | Jan 14 18:37 |
| scientes | kinda like how kFreeBsd was a joke from the start | Jan 14 18:39 |
| scientes | the reality is that only a GPL kernel can survive | Jan 14 18:39 |
| scientes | even seL4 is GPL-2 | Jan 14 18:39 |
| MinceR | we'll see | Jan 14 18:40 |
| MinceR | microsloth seems to be doing pretty well killing Linux off | Jan 14 18:40 |
| Hail_Spacecake | why do you think microsoft is killing linux? | Jan 14 18:41 |
| Hail_Spacecake | as opposed to google and apple? | Jan 14 18:41 |
| scientes | ^^^^^ | Jan 14 18:41 |
| Hail_Spacecake | why do you think linux is even dying? | Jan 14 18:41 |
| MinceR | they own the Linux-Destroying Foundation | Jan 14 18:41 |
| scientes | Google is the one with the most direct interest | Jan 14 18:41 |
| scientes | and experience | Jan 14 18:41 |
| MinceR | they admitted to forcing the CoC onto Linux | Jan 14 18:41 |
| Hail_Spacecake | lots of software project have had CoCs forced onto them that have nothing to do with linux | Jan 14 18:42 |
| Hail_Spacecake | microsoft isthe wrong party to blame | Jan 14 18:42 |
| scientes | google and apple have heavily developed llvm/clang too | Jan 14 18:42 |
| Hail_Spacecake | coraline ehmke works for salesforce, not microsfot | Jan 14 18:43 |
| MinceR | https://mobile.twitter.com/geo_walters/status/1041493985171316737 | Jan 14 18:43 |
| scientes | and completely moved off of gcc | Jan 14 18:43 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-mobile.twitter.com | Twitter | Jan 14 18:43 | |
| MinceR | https://www.linuxfoundation.org/membership/members/ | Jan 14 18:43 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxfoundation.org | Our Corporate Members – The Linux Foundation | Jan 14 18:43 | |
| MinceR | as for how Linux is dying (aside from the Microsoft Linux Foundation and their CoC), there's the fact that there was only Linus to block kdbus from being merged and now he's practically out of the picture | Jan 14 18:49 |
| MinceR | and one of the idiots who pushed for kdbus to be merged, gkh, is now practically in charge | Jan 14 18:49 |
| Hail_Spacecake | MinceR: you think google doesn't care about enforcing CoCs? | Jan 14 18:49 |
| Hail_Spacecake | there's plenty of activist trans women who work for them too | Jan 14 18:49 |
| MinceR | what does that have to do with anything? | Jan 14 18:49 |
| MinceR | have google admitted to forcing the CoC onto Linux? | Jan 14 18:49 |
| MinceR | is there any sign of them having blackmailed Linus? | Jan 14 18:50 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Danger Gazers, Super Mega Space Blaster Special Turbo and MediaTek Processors for Gamers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132883 [https://pleroma.site/objects/acae5e5e-99df-41b9-a313-5f8d09cececb] | Jan 14 18:50 | |
| Hail_Spacecake | why do you think linus was blackmailed by microsoft as opposed to his own college age daughter? | Jan 14 18:50 |
| MinceR | doesn't seem so realistic that someone would change behavior so drastically and give up on his biggest work for the sake of a stupid daughter | Jan 14 18:51 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Unity 8 Desktop On Ubuntu 20.04 LTS Could Take A Year Before Being Usable http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132884 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4cc68839-27cf-48ca-a120-e0320168df9a] | Jan 14 18:53 | |
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| Hail_Spacecake | MinceR: yeah that actually does seem kinda realistic | Jan 14 18:53 |
| MinceR | of course, some of the clueful kernel developers may yet fork Linux and fix it, but so far nothing happened | Jan 14 18:59 |
| MinceR | afaik nobody even dared to speak up | Jan 14 18:59 |
| MinceR | so i started branching out | Jan 14 18:59 |
| MinceR | i'm not going to let the robber barons of redmond (or ibm, or anyone else) take out my entire IT infrastructure | Jan 14 19:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR Then it turned out most of the performance and reliability problems with dbus that they wanted to solve boiled down to horrendous userspace software that got cleaned up after the kdbus rejection. | Jan 14 19:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | :) | Jan 14 19:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | dbus-broker is a drop in replacement. | Jan 14 19:01 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC[m]: and if it weren't for Linus, they wouldn't have done any of it | Jan 14 19:03 |
| MinceR | they would have instead soiled the kernel with all that horrendous code | Jan 14 19:03 |
| MinceR | and now the person who would have done it has nothing stopping him the next time he decides to do so | Jan 14 19:03 |
| MinceR | when these people see a performance issue, they don't investigate it, they don't profile their own damn code | Jan 14 19:04 |
| MinceR | they just try to throw it in the kernel | Jan 14 19:04 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: CoreAVI, X.Org Server 1.20.7, Wayland Adds Meson Build System Support http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132885 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c5c83452-aed7-4cca-a0b3-9bdb53dfcdf4] | Jan 14 19:05 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: New Folder Icons, Aubergine As Second Accent Color Currently In Testing For Ubuntu 20.04 Yaru Theme http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132886 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b4fc0575-ad68-4f9b-a4e5-be6626214edb] | Jan 14 19:08 | |
| scientes | my god | Jan 14 19:10 |
| MinceR | yes? | Jan 14 19:10 |
| scientes | gogs uses like 5 bazillion go modules | Jan 14 19:10 |
| XRevan86 | Isn't that what every Go project looks like? | Jan 14 19:10 |
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| scientes | http://paste.debian.net/1126004/ | Jan 14 19:10 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-paste.debian.net | debian Pastezone | Jan 14 19:10 | |
| scientes | holy fuck | Jan 14 19:11 |
| XRevan86 | The only reason why I don't hate on Go is because my standards got lowered so much by all those programming languages with an even shittier infrastructure ("ecosystem") | Jan 14 19:11 |
| MinceR | as long as i don't have to write code in go, i don't mind it | Jan 14 19:11 |
| MinceR | but lol no generics | Jan 14 19:12 |
| scientes | and the vast majority are not versioned | Jan 14 19:12 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Jonathan Riddell Announces Zanshin 0.5.71 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132887 [https://pleroma.site/objects/70b16faa-894c-4b4c-bd1a-63b4d8d4dcc1] | Jan 14 19:12 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It's a fine simple language | Jan 14 19:12 |
| scientes | its all v0.0.0-gitsomething | Jan 14 19:12 |
| MinceR | yeah, and you get to do fine simple copying of container structs | Jan 14 19:12 |
| MinceR | because copy-pasting code makes your codebase better! | Jan 14 19:13 |
| scientes | now i see why lots of sites just stick to cgit | Jan 14 19:13 |
| MinceR | just like reinventing OOP in C totally made that project i was on better than writing it in C++ | Jan 14 19:13 |
| MinceR | didn't make debugging hell at all | Jan 14 19:13 |
| scientes | like, I knew gitlab was like that | Jan 14 19:13 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: You mean like GObject or like cairo? | Jan 14 19:13 |
| MinceR | similar to gobject, except much worse | Jan 14 19:14 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Or like something seriously OOP? %) | Jan 14 19:14 |
| MinceR | not seriously oop | Jan 14 19:14 |
| MinceR | just the sort of shit you would expect someone who's afraid of C++ to cook up in C | Jan 14 19:14 |
| XRevan86 | You say it like there aren't valid reasons to be afraid of C++ :) | Jan 14 19:15 |
| MinceR | sure there are | Jan 14 19:15 |
| MinceR | but such people shouldn't reinvent the language then | Jan 14 19:15 |
| MinceR | if they couldn't deal with it from the language user side, what made them think they could deal with it from the language implementer side? | Jan 14 19:16 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: I can't really tell what exactly you're describing, so dunno | Jan 14 19:18 |
| scientes | ugggh, and gog's install interface sucks | Jan 14 19:18 |
| MinceR | i'm not allowed to describe it in more detail and i also don't remember the specifics anymore | Jan 14 19:18 |
| scientes | it doesn't allow you to choose sqlite3, and it doesn't allow you to choose pam auth | Jan 14 19:18 |
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| XRevan86 | It's just that a rudimentary object model like in cairo is perfectly fine. | Jan 14 19:19 |
| XRevan86 | Some people hate that approach | Jan 14 19:19 |
| scientes | yeah a problem with go is that you need bindings for everything | Jan 14 19:20 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: That's commonplace. Well, Zig did a good job integrating C :) | Jan 14 19:21 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Python Programming Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132888 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d4bf83e4-b7bc-4c04-b4d9-52c5d8b1e575] | Jan 14 19:21 | |
| scientes | because the C ABI is great | Jan 14 19:21 |
| scientes | there really isn't anything wrong with it | Jan 14 19:22 |
| scientes | it even has multiple return values even though C doesn't really have those :) | Jan 14 19:22 |
| MinceR | except for what it's missing :> | Jan 14 19:22 |
| scientes | ^^^^^^^^ read | Jan 14 19:22 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: C FFI is normal, what I like is that it has C header integration. | Jan 14 19:22 |
| scientes | XRevan86, built on clang | Jan 14 19:22 |
| scientes | and that means it always gets it right | Jan 14 19:22 |
| XRevan86 | The experimental PHP FFI also has that somehow, but dunno how it works in practice. | Jan 14 19:25 |
| schestowitz | scientes: context of debian paste? | Jan 14 19:29 |
| schestowitz | is this go download ed for debian buster? | Jan 14 19:29 |
| schestowitz | *downloaded | Jan 14 19:29 |
| scientes | schestowitz, requirements of gogs | Jan 14 19:30 |
| scientes | also pam doesn't seem to work | Jan 14 19:31 |
| scientes | oh i see, i would have to add to shadow | Jan 14 19:32 |
| scientes | because it doesn't implement sasl like dovecot | Jan 14 19:32 |
| scientes | like postfix* | Jan 14 19:32 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: As far as Go projects go, this doesn't go very far | Jan 14 19:35 |
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| scientes | i'm suprised the chinese didn't just use gogs | Jan 14 19:37 |
| scientes | gitee.com | Jan 14 19:37 |
| scientes | looks just like github.com | Jan 14 19:37 |
| MinceR | gitea is a gogs fork | Jan 14 19:37 |
| MinceR | afaik | Jan 14 19:37 |
| scientes | which is kinda gogs' goal | Jan 14 19:37 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Time Namespace Appears To Finally Be On-Deck For The Mainline Linux Kernel http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132889 [https://pleroma.site/objects/82ea1840-e5e5-46af-a7a5-20526ed9a4f0] | Jan 14 19:41 | |
| scientes | MinceR, looks fresher, but too much forking is bad | Jan 14 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | scientes: cheers for the clarification | Jan 14 19:44 |
| schestowitz | less innocuous than I though | Jan 14 19:44 |
| schestowitz | also afaik golang was in shithub before the criminals took over it | Jan 14 19:45 |
| scientes | yes | Jan 14 19:45 |
| scientes | also github was arrogant then too | Jan 14 19:45 |
| scientes | remember that huge security nightmare | Jan 14 19:45 |
| scientes | where they blamed the messenger? | Jan 14 19:45 |
| schestowitz | try speaking the key/core debs into phasing out of shithub | Jan 14 19:46 |
| scientes | or more like tried to shoot the messenger | Jan 14 19:46 |
| XRevan86 | gogs/gitea are nowhere near the complexity of gitlab. | Jan 14 19:46 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: today's howtos http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132890 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2a9c32d6-e204-4c8f-a1c1-9b3e55b3089c] | Jan 14 19:46 | |
| XRevan86 | Alas not as polished either. But the night is young :) | Jan 14 19:47 |
| scientes | polishing turds | Jan 14 19:47 |
| scientes | like x86_64 | Jan 14 19:47 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Let’s write a new vision statement for Fedora http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132891 [https://pleroma.site/objects/efe53dcf-1468-45ed-a4a5-507f0f0fb73a] | Jan 14 19:50 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Krita in 2019 and 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132892 [https://pleroma.site/objects/241ab967-cdd7-4e81-97e8-a64eee4a26a2] | Jan 14 19:52 | |
| scientes | XRevan86, I kinda like go's capital vs non-capital export thing | Jan 14 19:53 |
| scientes | basically, anything to reduce the amount of bike shedding | Jan 14 19:54 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Welcome to Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/132893 [https://pleroma.site/objects/822fb8fc-a918-4262-94d0-2ebc4d151069] | Jan 14 19:55 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Not sure how that reduces bike-shedding… | Jan 14 19:56 |
| scientes | you force people to do something one way | Jan 14 19:56 |
| scientes | so they cant suggest to do it another way | Jan 14 19:56 |
| MinceR | that's when i start looking for a different language | Jan 14 19:57 |
| perflyst[x] | test (dont mind me, need to test sth) | Jan 14 19:57 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Oh, I thought you mean this exact approach… which I also don't like %) | Jan 14 19:58 |
| scientes | except you have to | Jan 14 19:58 |
| scientes | cause its the language | Jan 14 19:58 |
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| XRevan86 | scientes: It's almost always the language | Jan 14 19:59 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Except in Python where unexported functions are prefixed with _ | Jan 14 19:59 |
| XRevan86 | and that has no value to the language itself | Jan 14 19:59 |
| scientes | so you mean all unexported functions are actually exported? | Jan 14 20:00 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I think I said too much :D | Jan 14 20:00 |
| scientes | but just with a warning of "here bes dragons" :) | Jan 14 20:00 |
| XRevan86 | And that warning is universally accepted as it's PEP 8 | Jan 14 20:01 |
| scientes | XRevan86, only in an interpreted language haha | Jan 14 20:02 |
| scientes | anyways, I've been sleeping in too much | Jan 14 20:02 |
| scientes | however I don't know how to get to sleep | Jan 14 20:02 |
| scientes | its a horrible problem | Jan 14 20:02 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Well, duh | Jan 14 20:02 |
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| XRevan86 | scientes: The first think I look up when I try a new language is a coding style. | Jan 14 20:03 |
| XRevan86 | The most impressive one is this one: https://wiki.freepascal.org/Coding_style | Jan 14 20:04 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.freepascal.org | Coding style - Free Pascal wiki | Jan 14 20:04 | |
| XRevan86 | For a willy-nilly language a willy-nilly coding style. | Jan 14 20:04 |
| MinceR | i thought it was a bondage-and-discipline language | Jan 14 20:05 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Not when iT comeS to Style | Jan 14 20:05 |
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| XRevan86 | fpc doesn't even follow this coding style. | Jan 14 20:07 |
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| XRevan86 | It's a case-insensitive language that actually considers that a feature. | Jan 14 20:10 |
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| MinceR | it can be done right | Jan 14 20:13 |
| MinceR | (to see how, check out lisp) | Jan 14 20:13 |
| XRevan86 | I wonder why Wirth decided to go with "procedure" for non-returning subroutines and with "function" for returning… | Jan 14 20:14 |
| MinceR | when he could have gone with "function" for both? :> | Jan 14 20:14 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Or "procedure" for both. | Jan 14 20:15 |
| XRevan86 | As neither have to have anything in common with mathematical functions. | Jan 14 20:15 |
| *XRevan86 likes how Nim approaches that. | Jan 14 20:15 | |
| XRevan86 | "prod" is any subroutine, "func" is a strictly pure function. | Jan 14 20:16 |
| MinceR | what does "prod" stand for? | Jan 14 20:16 |
| XRevan86 | * proc | Jan 14 20:16 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: for "typo" %) | Jan 14 20:17 |
| XRevan86 | Or for "bad muscle memory" | Jan 14 20:17 |
| MinceR | :> | Jan 14 20:18 |
| XRevan86 | That distinction of having side effects or not has practical value, while just return value… can't I just tell from a return value type? | Jan 14 20:19 |
| MinceR | not if you're Wirth :> | Jan 14 20:20 |
| XRevan86 | Really not surprising that this approach hasn't caught on | Jan 14 20:31 |
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| XRevan86 | Pascal is affected by the "forgotten curvy braces" problem C has, by the way. | Jan 14 20:51 |
| XRevan86 | Maybe even more as begin/end are more verbose, so the programmer is more inclined to omit them. | Jan 14 20:52 |
| danielp3344 | lol | Jan 14 20:53 |
| XRevan86 | for i := 0 to 9 | Jan 14 20:55 |
| XRevan86 | begin | Jan 14 20:55 |
| XRevan86 | end; | Jan 14 20:55 |
| XRevan86 | for (i = 0; i < 10; ++i) { | Jan 14 20:55 |
| XRevan86 | } | Jan 14 20:55 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR This everything into the kernel crap reminds me of the older Microsoft stuff where even a lot of IIS ran inside the kernel. | Jan 14 20:57 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It didn't matter if it crashed the system or created awful security problems as long as it gave them an edge. | Jan 14 20:57 |
| XRevan86 | DaemonFC[m]: It'd take a lot more than an IPC bus to get to their level %) | Jan 14 20:59 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC[m]: indeed, it's the same mentality | Jan 14 21:00 |
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| MinceR | and the funny thing is, it didn't even give them an edge at least some of the time | Jan 14 21:03 |
| MinceR | (because of course mode switching overhead isn't everything) | Jan 14 21:03 |
| XRevan86 | Lua, Ruby/Crystal and Julia have "end" but don't have "begin", a viable alternative to curvy braces. | Jan 14 21:04 |
| MinceR | viable if you like to type and read a lot for nothing | Jan 14 21:05 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It cancels out by proper indentation. | Jan 14 21:05 |
| MinceR | not really | Jan 14 21:05 |
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| XRevan86 | MinceR: If a block ends with something that looks like "end" (a three-letter long something with a | at the end), that probably is. | Jan 14 21:08 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: And then there's Python which has neither %). | Jan 14 21:09 |
| MinceR | python has its own issues because of it | Jan 14 21:16 |
| MinceR | but you can overcome them with hy :> | Jan 14 21:16 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: heh | Jan 14 21:17 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: What would you consider to be the advantage of Lisp and of the Lisp-like approach like in Hy? | Jan 14 21:18 |
| *XRevan86 still doesn't get it. | Jan 14 21:18 | |
| MinceR | compared to indentation-based block syntax (as in python): the ability to automatically reformat code correctly, indentation included; multiline/multi-statement lambdas without warts | Jan 14 21:19 |
| XRevan86 | And as far as I know Hy is not a functional language, so that's not it. | Jan 14 21:20 |
| MinceR | compared to braces: not sure, maybe nothing, they seem to be pretty similar -- maybe fewer characters needed (no ; ) | Jan 14 21:20 |
| MinceR | it's functional, but not pure functional | Jan 14 21:20 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Isn't pure functional the only real kind of functional? | Jan 14 21:20 |
| MinceR | compared to pascaloid abomination: a lot less to type and read | Jan 14 21:20 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: no | Jan 14 21:21 |
| MinceR | scheme is typically called functional yet it's a practical language | Jan 14 21:21 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: By that you mean there are no restrictions imposed on procedures? | Jan 14 21:22 |
| XRevan86 | like having no in-out arguments, no state changes, etc. | Jan 14 21:23 |
| MinceR | yes | Jan 14 21:23 |
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| XRevan86 | > maybe fewer characters needed | Jan 14 21:24 |
| XRevan86 | With this many braces? :) | Jan 14 21:24 |
| MinceR | how many braces? | Jan 14 21:24 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: (many) | Jan 14 21:25 |
| MinceR | those are parens, not braces | Jan 14 21:25 |
| MinceR | and every function call would have them in c-style syntax as well | Jan 14 21:25 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: right | Jan 14 21:26 |
| MinceR | however, statements without function calls wouldn't, so it's complicated | Jan 14 21:26 |
| MinceR | if you just need a block (it isn't implied in anything), you need some sort of operator (like progn), which does mean extra typing | Jan 14 21:27 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: There are languages that favour or allow the "func arg1 arg2" style. | Jan 14 21:27 |
| XRevan86 | And there are languages that don't require a semicolon (including Go). | Jan 14 21:28 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jan 14 21:28 |
| MinceR | but that probably has its own cost as well | Jan 14 21:28 |
| MinceR | something like needing extra \-s on some multiline statements | Jan 14 21:29 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Indeed. | Jan 14 21:31 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: JS has the best approach here | Jan 14 21:31 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It will fail no matter what | Jan 14 21:31 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 14 21:31 |
| MinceR | it will succeed at casting/conversion, even if you don't want it to :> | Jan 14 21:32 |
| XRevan86 | Because it requires ";' but it also adds it automatically for almost any new line. | Jan 14 21:32 |
| MinceR | oh | Jan 14 21:32 |
| MinceR | i didn't know that, that's pretty stupid if true | Jan 14 21:32 |
| XRevan86 | So you have the "best" of both worlds. | Jan 14 21:32 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: They call it ASI (Automatic Semicolon Insertion) | Jan 14 21:33 |
| XRevan86 | Easy to look up | Jan 14 21:33 |
| XRevan86 | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Lexical_grammar#Automatic_semicolon_insertion | Jan 14 21:33 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-developer.mozilla.org | Lexical grammar - JavaScript | MDN | Jan 14 21:34 | |
| MinceR | i didn't know JS was this fucked up | Jan 14 21:34 |
| MinceR | and of course they come up with the "defensive semicolon" instead of terminating their statements properly | Jan 14 21:35 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: There is an endless battle of pro-semicolon and anti-semicolon JS developers | Jan 14 21:36 |
| XRevan86 | who can't reach a conclusion, because no matter what you do, you will get shot in the foot, but in different places | Jan 14 21:36 |
| XRevan86 | So it's a matter of preference, what part of the foot one values more. | Jan 14 21:36 |
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| MinceR | which part of the foot do you get shot if you wrote your javascript code as if it was c (except i suppose adding \-s for multiline statements)? | Jan 14 21:38 |
| MinceR | s/hot/hot in/ | Jan 14 21:38 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: I wonder if JS actually has \ for multiline statements… | Jan 14 21:42 |
| MinceR | yeah, i wonder too | Jan 14 21:43 |
| XRevan86 | Nope, "escape sequence" | Jan 14 21:43 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 14 21:43 |
| MinceR | so if you need long statements in JS you just have extra long lines? | Jan 14 21:44 |
| MinceR | or maybe you can leave a paren open or something like that if you can | Jan 14 21:44 |
| XRevan86 | So, say, this is impossible to express: | Jan 14 21:44 |
| XRevan86 | return | Jan 14 21:44 |
| XRevan86 | 0; | Jan 14 21:44 |
| XRevan86 | no matter what one does | Jan 14 21:44 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Parenthesis works | Jan 14 21:44 |
| XRevan86 | return 0 + | Jan 14 21:45 |
| XRevan86 | 0; | Jan 14 21:45 |
| XRevan86 | ^ also works. | Jan 14 21:45 |
| MinceR | :) | Jan 14 21:45 |
| XRevan86 | https://www-archive.mozilla.org/js/language/js20-2000-07/rationale/syntax.html | Jan 14 21:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www-archive.mozilla.org | JavaScript 2.0 Syntax Rationale | Jan 14 21:46 | |
| XRevan86 | JS gets funky when a line without a semicolon is followed by a line with a parenthesis. | Jan 14 21:49 |
| XRevan86 | https://stackoverflow.com/a/1169596 also here | Jan 14 21:49 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-stackoverflow.com | Do you recommend using semicolons after every statement in JavaScript? - Stack Overflow | Jan 14 21:49 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: So the problem when not using semicolons is that there are cases when ASI doesn't kick-in and things get counter-intuitive. | Jan 14 21:53 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: And the problem with using semicolons is that there are cases when ASI does kick in and things get counter-intuitive as well. | Jan 14 21:54 |
| MinceR | it can only kick in on multiline statements | Jan 14 21:54 |
| MinceR | and you can't get out of that anyway | Jan 14 21:54 |
| MinceR | ASI is part of the language | Jan 14 21:54 |
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| MinceR | in all other cases, you've put a semicolon at the end of the line, so there's nothing for ASI to do | Jan 14 21:55 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Well, yes. | Jan 14 21:55 |
| MinceR | or it's in some sort of construct like if or while, but ASI hopefully doesn't break those | Jan 14 21:55 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Those have parenthesis | Jan 14 21:56 |
| XRevan86 | parentheses? | Jan 14 21:56 |
| MinceR | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | Jan 14 21:56 |
| XRevan86 | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parentheses#English yes, parentheses | Jan 14 21:56 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wiktionary.org | parentheses - Wiktionary | Jan 14 21:56 | |
| MinceR | i mean stuff like: if (condition) {\nfunc(); | Jan 14 21:56 |
| MinceR | rather, in the else clauses, i don't know if an extra ; can screw something up there | Jan 14 21:57 |
| MinceR | or just in if (condition)\n{\nfunc(); | Jan 14 21:57 |
| MinceR | it's hopefully not stupid enough to add a ; after the (condition) and then choke on it | Jan 14 21:57 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It's not. | Jan 14 21:58 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Yea, it's not THAT bad %) | Jan 14 21:59 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: But it's safest to write with semicolons, and then you still don't get the benefits of a semicolon-based language | Jan 14 22:05 |
| MinceR | yea | Jan 14 22:05 |
| XRevan86 | ⇒ the "best" of both worlds | Jan 14 22:05 |
| MinceR | if you've got to target JS, it's better to transpile :> | Jan 14 22:06 |
| MinceR | that's the worst of both worlds, though | Jan 14 22:06 |
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| XRevan86 | MinceR: I wonder how the most popular of those, TypeScript, does that… | Jan 14 22:07 |
| XRevan86 | Could be the only Microsoft FOSS project that is actually worth anything. | Jan 14 22:07 |
| XRevan86 | > a JavaScript program is also a valid TypeScript program | Jan 14 22:08 |
| XRevan86 | Okay, that means ASI | Jan 14 22:08 |
| MinceR | i was thinking more along the lines of python | Jan 14 22:09 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: If Python is going to be transformed into something, it's going to be WASM | Jan 14 22:09 |
| MinceR | rather than adding one more misfeature on top of JS and depending on the corporation that did the most harm to the IT industry for it | Jan 14 22:09 |
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| MinceR | WASM is probably fine | Jan 14 22:09 |
| MinceR | but i think i've seen some JS transpiler too | Jan 14 22:09 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: WASM is a bit scary, as it's one step further in obscuring the code that the browser runs. | Jan 14 22:10 |
| XRevan86 | "a bit" as obfuscators do wonders | Jan 14 22:10 |
| MinceR | i'm in it for the non-Obstacle-dependent heavily tested sandboxed VM though :> | Jan 14 22:11 |
| XRevan86 | "but i think i've seen some JS transpiler too" – if there is one, it's probably slow and bad (not gonna even look it up) | Jan 14 22:11 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: I see the benefits of Wasm, yes. | Jan 14 22:13 |
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| XRevan86 | MinceR: But it also got this much harder to inspect what the heck is being executed in one's browser. | Jan 14 22:18 |
| MinceR | yes, but that was already hopeless | Jan 14 22:18 |
| XRevan86 | opcodes, that's what | Jan 14 22:19 |
| MinceR | even the number of domains is way too high on a typical "modern" site, let alone number of script resources or functions or lines of code | Jan 14 22:19 |
| MinceR | and it's obfuscated | Jan 14 22:19 |
| MinceR | they don't want you to know what they're doing on your computer | Jan 14 22:19 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: I'm not sure if that even makes sense, but I feel like it got *more* hopeless. | Jan 14 22:20 |
| MinceR | considering that asm.js existed already, i'd say it didn't really change that way | Jan 14 22:20 |
| XRevan86 | Eh, that's true | Jan 14 22:21 |
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| XRevan86 | > This everything into the kernel crap reminds me of the older Microsoft stuff where even a lot of IIS ran inside the kernel. | Jan 14 23:18 |
| XRevan86 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TUX_web_server | Jan 14 23:18 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | TUX web server - Wikipedia | Jan 14 23:18 | |
| XRevan86 | This existed. | Jan 14 23:19 |
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| MinceR | did anyone take it seriously? | Jan 14 23:22 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: yes | Jan 14 23:22 |
| MinceR | who? | Jan 14 23:24 |
| XRevan86 | > TUX has never been an integrated part of the official Linux kernel, although it has been shipped in some distributions, notably Red Hat, SuSE and Fedora. It served as a test bed (and motivator) for many features which were integrated separately. | Jan 14 23:26 |
| MinceR | ah, the usual idiots | Jan 14 23:26 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: The only commercial GNU/Linux distribution makers of the time. | Jan 14 23:27 |
| MinceR | yeah, just like today, the only commercial "GNU"/Linux distros were garbage | Jan 14 23:27 |
| XRevan86 | This probably means that cubexyz has a TUX kernel module built somewhere %) | Jan 14 23:27 |
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