Join us now at the IRC channel.
| schestowitz | Ariadne: lots of articles about EPO coming this weekend | Nov 14 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: moving to NL is like losing a whole foot of height, relatively :P | Nov 14 00:00 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: because everyone's taller there :P | Nov 14 00:00 |
| Ariadne | CrystalMath: how so? | Nov 14 00:00 |
| schestowitz | at least I hope I clarified to mjg59 why it's unfair, VERY unfair, to paint US, collectively, as some sort of "Rape" something | Nov 14 00:00 |
| Ariadne | oh i see | Nov 14 00:00 |
| schestowitz | we exposed rapists | Nov 14 00:01 |
| schestowitz | we exposed child abusers | Nov 14 00:01 |
| Ariadne | well, good, i rather be smol | Nov 14 00:01 |
| schestowitz | afaik, nobody among us ever did wrong | Nov 14 00:01 |
| schestowitz | and I reported a person to the TSA | Nov 14 00:01 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: the average height in the netherlands is the highest in the world | Nov 14 00:01 |
| schestowitz | TSA never even got back to me | Nov 14 00:01 |
| Ariadne | why would you report a person to TSA | Nov 14 00:01 |
| schestowitz | they seem happy enough to keep their perverts salaried | Nov 14 00:01 |
| Ariadne | o | Nov 14 00:01 |
| Ariadne | ok | Nov 14 00:01 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: You claimed that Jake was fired from Tor because of rumours and gossip | Nov 14 00:01 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Do you accept that that was inaccurate? | Nov 14 00:02 |
| schestowitz | is that a quote? | Nov 14 00:02 |
| schestowitz | quote me | Nov 14 00:02 |
| schestowitz | direct quote | Nov 14 00:02 |
| schestowitz | not paraphrasing some imaginary thing | Nov 14 00:02 |
| Ariadne | you said daniel pocock was run out of debian due to rumours and gossip | Nov 14 00:02 |
| mjg59 | Only years ago something similar happened to Jacob Appelbaum, who would soon be expelled also from Tor, | Nov 14 00:02 |
| Ariadne | and that similar happened to applebaum | Nov 14 00:02 |
| Ariadne | ^ | Nov 14 00:02 |
| Ariadne | :) | Nov 14 00:02 |
| schestowitz | I will say yes or no and with context | Nov 14 00:02 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: that's not a quote | Nov 14 00:03 |
| CrystalMath | perhaps "unproven accusations" would be better | Nov 14 00:03 |
| schestowitz | quote the whole sentence | Nov 14 00:03 |
| CrystalMath | that is, direct claims without physical evidence or third party witnesses | Nov 14 00:03 |
| schestowitz | I read my posts carefully once | Nov 14 00:03 |
| schestowitz | first when I type | Nov 14 00:03 |
| schestowitz | then when I check again for accuracy | Nov 14 00:03 |
| CrystalMath | which is of course softer than saying "rumors and hearsay", but it's more accurate | Nov 14 00:03 |
| schestowitz | so my guess it, I would defend what I wrote _as I wrote it_ | Nov 14 00:03 |
| schestowitz | in context, also | Nov 14 00:04 |
| mjg59 | I can't quote an entire paragraph, it'll exceed the line length | Nov 14 00:04 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: you cannot write my statements for me | Nov 14 00:04 |
| Ariadne | just screenshot it :D | Nov 14 00:04 |
| schestowitz | and then ask me to say yes | Nov 14 00:04 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: or pastebin | Nov 14 00:04 |
| Ariadne | 6 of 1, half dozen of the other | Nov 14 00:05 |
| Ariadne | i also think schestowitz has been unfair in criticizing mjg59 for writing shim | Nov 14 00:05 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: https://pastebin.com/hk6XYaz5 | Nov 14 00:05 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-On another occasion we saw an eager developer, at one point a technical student, - Pastebin.com | Nov 14 00:05 | |
| schestowitz | mjg59: on a personal, sincere note, I hope you realise why it is important | Nov 14 00:05 |
| CrystalMath | i criticize mjg59 for writing against freedom 0 | Nov 14 00:05 |
| Ariadne | shim allows linux to be booted on machines where secure boot is not disableable | Nov 14 00:05 |
| schestowitz | (we don't need this circus doing about "rape apologist"-shaming) | Nov 14 00:05 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: Eh not really | Nov 14 00:06 |
| schestowitz | and you have a phd, you should know better I'm not your enemy on human rights issues | Nov 14 00:06 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz: theres plenty of people who have phds who are quite awful really | Nov 14 00:06 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: It's not usable on ARM and I haven't found any x86 where it's actually impossible to disable | Nov 14 00:06 |
| schestowitz | "nfosec twitter" | Nov 14 00:07 |
| schestowitz | "rumours and gossip were'" | Nov 14 00:07 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: The goal was to ensure it was as easy as possible to continue using Linux, and also to provide a consistent way for users to choose to use their own keys | Nov 14 00:07 |
| Ariadne | mjg59: i have a chuwi minipc from china, where it s impossible because the bios is in chinese ;) | Nov 14 00:07 |
| schestowitz | That refers to Pocock I think | Nov 14 00:07 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: you did biology, right? | Nov 14 00:07 |
| *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Nov 14 00:07 | |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: So what does the word "similar" refer to? | Nov 14 00:07 |
| schestowitz | I did medical biopyhsics | Nov 14 00:07 |
| CrystalMath | "Only years ago something similar happened to Jacob Appelbaum, who would soon be expelled also from Tor," hmm, it it stating here that the case is similar, not the same | Nov 14 00:07 |
| Ariadne | if i knew chinese, i may be able to disable it | Nov 14 00:07 |
| schestowitz | I had applied in cambridge uni also | Nov 14 00:07 |
| Ariadne | but i do not know chinese :P | Nov 14 00:07 |
| schestowitz | similar does not mean identical | Nov 14 00:08 |
| schestowitz | and to conflate the two is false equivalence | Nov 14 00:08 |
| CrystalMath | schestowitz: yes that's my point | Nov 14 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Trump was removed from Office | Nov 14 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Matt was remove from X | Nov 14 00:08 |
| schestowitz | Trump has something similar done to him | Nov 14 00:08 |
| schestowitz | does not mean mjg59 is Trump | Nov 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | I can compare Obama to Trump | Nov 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | without implying they're equally bad | Nov 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | So maybe this boils down to a misunderstanding | Nov 14 00:09 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz: no. neuroscience | Nov 14 00:09 |
| CrystalMath | you didn't really say that Appelbaum was removed on rumors and hearsay, just that the situation is somewhat similar (there was no physical evidence of 3rd party witnesses for Appelbaum for example) | Nov 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | I meant, mjg59 | Nov 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | biology iirc | Nov 14 00:09 |
| mjg59 | Yes, genetics | Nov 14 00:09 |
| schestowitz | I highlighted wrong person | Nov 14 00:10 |
| schestowitz | my bad | Nov 14 00:10 |
| CrystalMath | *or 3rd party | Nov 14 00:10 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: be careful not to be painted eugenicist :-) | Nov 14 00:10 |
| schestowitz | the base45 is growing | Nov 14 00:10 |
| schestowitz | 70 million-adult-strong | Nov 14 00:10 |
| Ariadne | CrystalMath: i'm mostly looking forward to being able to take eurostar to london and visit the jellycat stuffed animal company store :) | Nov 14 00:10 |
| mjg59 | I seem to have managed to avoid that so far, thanks | Nov 14 00:10 |
| schestowitz | https://truthout.org/articles/obama-memoir-calls-trumps-birtherism-lies-elixir-for-american-racial-anxiety/ | Nov 14 00:10 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-truthout.org | Obama Memoir Calls Trumpโs Birtherism Lies "Elixir" for American Racial Anxiety | Nov 14 00:10 | |
| schestowitz | obama bingo'ed it | Nov 14 00:10 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: btw, "of" is dutch for "or" | Nov 14 00:11 |
| schestowitz | BTW | Nov 14 00:11 |
| schestowitz | pocock wrote to me about equivalences | Nov 14 00:11 |
| schestowitz | like being compared to manning | Nov 14 00:12 |
| schestowitz | or assange | Nov 14 00:12 |
| schestowitz | not my article | Nov 14 00:12 |
| schestowitz | figosdev's | Nov 14 00:12 |
| schestowitz | he thought the comparison (not mine) was unhelpful | Nov 14 00:12 |
| Ariadne | i mean, i do think pocock is being slandered by debian and fsfe personnel | Nov 14 00:12 |
| schestowitz | he sees himself as holding vastly higher standards | Nov 14 00:12 |
| Ariadne | fedora concluded the same incidentally | Nov 14 00:12 |
| schestowitz | as he broke no contractual obligation, like to the US military | Nov 14 00:12 |
| Ariadne | unfortunately due to debian and fsfe doing that, he assumes bad faith with other groups when there are technical problems now | Nov 14 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: they still treat him badly | Nov 14 00:13 |
| Ariadne | so, be careful :) | Nov 14 00:13 |
| schestowitz | "First of all, my email nominating myself on the Fedora Council list was delayed for approximately 14 hours." #fedora #ibm #redhat #censorship https://danielpocock.com/withdrawing-fedora-council-nomination-2020/ | Nov 14 00:13 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-danielpocock.com | Withdrawing my nomination for Fedora Council | Nov 14 00:13 | |
| Ariadne | that was due to a technical fault | Nov 14 00:13 |
| schestowitz | he also did something to show they didn't apply the CoC fairly | Nov 14 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: it always is :-) | Nov 14 00:14 |
| schestowitz | in libreplanet mailing lists his message never came through | Nov 14 00:14 |
| schestowitz | he was defending RMS | Nov 14 00:14 |
| schestowitz | and in GSOC he proved mailing list censorship | Nov 14 00:14 |
| schestowitz | having been volunteering for the program for like half a decade | Nov 14 00:14 |
| schestowitz | more recently: http://techrights.org/2020/11/03/the-harassment-claims-in-full/ | Nov 14 00:14 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Outreachy as โHush Moneyโ (Bribe) From Monopolies | Techrights | Nov 14 00:15 | |
| *Ariadne shrugs | Nov 14 00:15 | |
| schestowitz | seems like he was a good steward for his interns http://techrights.org/2020/11/03/the-harassment-claims-in-full/ | Nov 14 00:15 |
| Ariadne | i don't really care about debian and fsfe politics | Nov 14 00:15 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: So you mention two cases and say that they're similar. You say that the first case is something you disliked. Is your feeling about the second case similar? | Nov 14 00:15 |
| schestowitz | and he faces flak for not getting with the (GSOC) programme | Nov 14 00:15 |
| schestowitz | *on with | Nov 14 00:15 |
| XRevan86 | Such a plentiful discussion. Is it even possible to lie about wearing a condom to the partner? | Nov 14 00:16 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: we're done explaining that | Nov 14 00:16 |
| schestowitz | you now look for a twist to retroactive justify your shitposting ;-) | Nov 14 00:16 |
| Ariadne | actually i am curious about that question | Nov 14 00:16 |
| Ariadne | :) | Nov 14 00:16 |
| schestowitz | XRevan86: not if you exposed war crimes | Nov 14 00:16 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: No, I'm trying to understand what you meant by the word "similar" | Nov 14 00:16 |
| schestowitz | there are some parables | Nov 14 00:17 |
| schestowitz | in the senses other than the nature of allegations | Nov 14 00:17 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: My reading of that was that you were criticising Debian's reaction to the accusations. Was my reading wrong? | Nov 14 00:17 |
| schestowitz | Debian no | Nov 14 00:17 |
| schestowitz | Zini | Nov 14 00:17 |
| schestowitz | just Zini | Nov 14 00:17 |
| schestowitz | acting for Debian as DAM | Nov 14 00:17 |
| schestowitz | See Enrico's email | Nov 14 00:18 |
| schestowitz | and the followup | Nov 14 00:18 |
| schestowitz | which itself was not happy with what had been said | Nov 14 00:18 |
| schestowitz | Enrico fcked up big time | Nov 14 00:18 |
| schestowitz | and unwittingly put the Debian stamp on a paragraph read by millions in mainstream press (still being read each day) | Nov 14 00:18 |
| schestowitz | if I did that, I'd resign | Nov 14 00:19 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Where did he fuck up? | Nov 14 00:19 |
| schestowitz | see the pocock article | Nov 14 00:19 |
| schestowitz | it's very clear and easy to understand | Nov 14 00:20 |
| schestowitz | it also received much supportive feedback online | Nov 14 00:20 |
| schestowitz | in lots of sites | Nov 14 00:20 |
| mjg59 | Zini does not claim that the people he named had been assaulted by Jake | Nov 14 00:21 |
| schestowitz | see what Zini wrote | Nov 14 00:21 |
| mjg59 | Yes | Nov 14 00:21 |
| mjg59 | I have | Nov 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz | and what was actually said to Zini | Nov 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz | not the same | Nov 14 00:22 |
| mjg59 | ? | Nov 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz | maybe Italian-speaking people aren't strong on english | Nov 14 00:22 |
| mjg59 | Zini names three people and describes them as having provided "first-person stories" | Nov 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz | and that can thus be blamed of, 'oops really sorry...lol" | Nov 14 00:22 |
| mjg59 | He does not claim that they were victims of Jake | Nov 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz | no, read again | Nov 14 00:22 |
| schestowitz | read the pocock piece | Nov 14 00:23 |
| mjg59 | I have | Nov 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | "first-person stories" | Nov 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | doesn't mean what you want it to mean | Nov 14 00:23 |
| mjg59 | What does it mean? | Nov 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | it's an indirection | Nov 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | ZIni never received "first-person stories" | Nov 14 00:23 |
| schestowitz | not even one | Nov 14 00:23 |
| mjg59 | Three people describe communications they have had | Nov 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | anyway, I want to post daily links | Nov 14 00:24 |
| mjg59 | That's a first person account of those communications | Nov 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | I start work in 40 mins | Nov 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | read again | Nov 14 00:24 |
| schestowitz | you're smart enough, mjg59 | Nov 14 00:25 |
| schestowitz | I know you have the first language advantage as well | Nov 14 00:25 |
| schestowitz | mother's tongue (Ireland) | Nov 14 00:25 |
| schestowitz | bbl | Nov 14 00:25 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Servers and Linux Foundation Leftovers โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144354 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2080a2da-ba8f-4fb7-bbe1-2081770201f8] | Nov 14 00:35 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todayโs ๐๐ฎ๐ฑ ๐๐๐๐ก๐ข๐ง๐๐ฌ Leftovers โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144355 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8f2c3bb3-16c2-48f9-b2a7-72d1949ef8d0] | Nov 14 00:37 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 13/11/2020: Mageia 8 Coming Soon, Endian 3.3.2 Released โข ๐๐ ด๐ ฒ๐ ท๐๐ ธ๐ ถ๐ ท๐๐ โ http://techrights.org/2020/11/13/mageia-8-coming-soon/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/51d6eac6-abc8-479d-bee5-9eb885d8cafd] | Nov 14 00:40 | |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: lot of these case first party stories and third party observers are not ideal either. Humans have bad habit of remembering stuff in ways that suits them. Logs and emails.... as in solid evidence of exactly what was said and done is what you are after. | Nov 14 00:54 |
| schestowitz | like Assange accusers' SMS | Nov 14 00:55 |
| schestowitz | I can seek the references and the evidence | Nov 14 00:55 |
| schestowitz | it's in the Assange statement (to the Swede who visited him in the Embassy interview) as well | Nov 14 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Wikileaks published the thing | Nov 14 00:56 |
| oiaohm | Exactly solid eveidence. | Nov 14 00:56 |
| oiaohm | If that exist that beats all the stories stuff. | Nov 14 00:56 |
| schestowitz | maybe it was this one https://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/Affidavit_of_Julian_Assange.html | Nov 14 00:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wikileaks.org | | Nov 14 00:57 | |
| schestowitz | not sure if that's the one | Nov 14 00:57 |
| oiaohm | Even with stories you need to fine at least enough evidence that the time line in the story is possible. | Nov 14 00:57 |
| schestowitz | no, wait, that's a different one | Nov 14 00:57 |
| schestowitz | media spammed and googlebombed it to death | Nov 14 00:58 |
| schestowitz | BBC hit pieces and stuff | Nov 14 00:58 |
| schestowitz | drowning out the signal | Nov 14 00:58 |
| schestowitz | it's about this | Nov 14 00:59 |
| schestowitz | https://www.voanews.com/europe/sweden-gets-written-report-assange-interview-london | Nov 14 00:59 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.voanews.com | Sweden Gets Written Report From Assange Interview in London | Voice of America - English | Nov 14 00:59 | |
| schestowitz | but wikileaks published the interview | Nov 14 00:59 |
| schestowitz | I cannot find it, using google (schmidt and all, not sure they'd rank wikileaks.org highly) | Nov 14 01:00 |
| oiaohm | https://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/18/world/julian-assange-fast-facts/index.html This has the timeline here. Yes it shows that the USA delayed making action against Assange in courts until the statue of limitations was about to run out. | Nov 14 01:02 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-edition.cnn.com | Julian Assange Fast Facts - CNN | Nov 14 01:02 | |
| oiaohm | Also that the USA had been planning to prosecute Assange from 2010. | Nov 14 01:03 |
| oiaohm | New president its possible case against him will go away again. | Nov 14 01:03 |
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| tessier | Once again I got highlighted and it's scrolled off. I need to increase my buffer size in irssi. | Nov 14 01:08 |
| Ariadne | blah blah blah | Nov 14 01:08 |
| schestowitz | it was something about varnish I think | Nov 14 01:08 |
| schestowitz | like how we used to handle ddos | Nov 14 01:09 |
| tessier | ok | Nov 14 01:09 |
| schestowitz | tessier: as the server is being moved again | Nov 14 01:09 |
| tessier | I am working on containerizing all of my infrastructure. | Nov 14 01:09 |
| tessier | Something I should have done years ago. | Nov 14 01:09 |
| schestowitz | you helped us so much and we never had security incidents | Nov 14 01:10 |
| schestowitz | only "SLAPP incidents" | Nov 14 01:10 |
| schestowitz | (all failed) | Nov 14 01:10 |
| tessier | heh | Nov 14 01:10 |
| schestowitz | tuxmachines now averaging at 11 hits/sec | Nov 14 01:10 |
| tessier | Is that good? An increase? | Nov 14 01:12 |
| tessier | I just bought my son a Raspberry Pi 400. It's great. | Nov 14 01:12 |
| schestowitz | yesterday's irc log was like 700k https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmTVK9B2YvX97kQJqZEpTKfC2nhjXd4cwa59eQ2Xbazok2 | Nov 14 01:13 |
| Ariadne | yeah the server is being moved due to the previous DC owner being ejected out of a moving car | Nov 14 01:13 |
| schestowitz | tessier: someone bought me raspi 4 | Nov 14 01:13 |
| schestowitz | same thing, sans keyboard, slightly different internal structure | Nov 14 01:14 |
| schestowitz | it's where the IPFS stuff is now served from, one node od many | Nov 14 01:14 |
| schestowitz | *of | Nov 14 01:14 |
| schestowitz | ipfs stats bw | Nov 14 01:15 |
| schestowitz | Bandwidth | Nov 14 01:15 |
| schestowitz | TotalIn: 9.5 GB | Nov 14 01:15 |
| schestowitz | TotalOut: 3.7 GB | Nov 14 01:15 |
| schestowitz | almost 10gb now | Nov 14 01:15 |
| schestowitz | since going public last Saturday | Nov 14 01:15 |
| tessier | I want to build an rpi 4 ceph cluster. I miss playing with ceph. | Nov 14 01:16 |
| schestowitz | yesterday's IRC log: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmQ6YBEztdbiojpMUCmbvnC5LyEa8vBHDS1QeUh83yhXoC | Nov 14 01:16 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ipfs.io | IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Friday, November 13, 2020 | Nov 14 01:16 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Re: Lying is beneath you, Oiaohm | Nov 14 01:47 |
| schestowitz | > As if PyPy doesn't exist. | Nov 14 01:47 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 14 01:47 |
| schestowitz | > oiaohm | Nov 14 01:47 |
| schestowitz | > vZS1: do remember python 2 is open source and *no one was willing to | Nov 14 01:47 |
| schestowitz | > put up the resources to keep it maintained* once they saw the internal | Nov 14 01:47 |
| schestowitz | > problems. <- *NOT TRUE!* | Nov 14 01:47 |
| schestowitz | (from python dev) | Nov 14 01:47 |
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| Ariadne | somebody forked python2, so clearly that is not true | Nov 14 02:13 |
| Ariadne | i think very few people care about py2 though | Nov 14 02:14 |
| Ariadne | i wonder why libffi is trying to include mips64n32 crap :/ | Nov 14 02:15 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | I'm tempted to get a new laptop but I probably won't. | Nov 14 03:27 |
| DaemonFC[m] | 4 years and single thread performance is still only up about 25%. | Nov 14 03:28 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: what I said on python 2 is true. one is fully compatible with Python 2.7; << is a statement from PyPy turns out they don't support all legacy python 2 features. https://doc.pypy.org/en/latest/cpython_differences.html | Nov 14 03:37 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-doc.pypy.org | Differences between PyPy and CPython โ PyPy documentation | Nov 14 03:37 | |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: basically PyPy cuts of a lot of features before Python 2.4. None of the forks are wanting to maintain that. Those areas are problematic. | Nov 14 03:38 |
| oiaohm | python 2 by their stated objective had to maintain that legacy support. | Nov 14 03:38 |
| oiaohm | The reality here python 2 got to a point where breaking total backwards compadiblity had to happen. | Nov 14 03:39 |
| oiaohm | Either you go the python 3 route and take this as chance to fix up lots or you go the pypy route and drop out old features hopefully not effecting any current applications. | Nov 14 03:40 |
| oiaohm | Old badly design features that is. | Nov 14 03:41 |
| oiaohm | either way you don't in fact get python 2. | Nov 14 03:41 |
| oiaohm | Even the fork Tauthon of python 2 has stripped away particular legacy features. | Nov 14 03:44 |
| oiaohm | The truth is no one at all is willing to maintain python 2 the way it was. | Nov 14 03:45 |
| oiaohm | That is a good thing. | Nov 14 03:45 |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Top 5 Linux Snaps of 2020: Arch, CentOS, Debian, Fedora, Manjaro, and Ubuntu http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144346#comment-27139 [https://pleroma.site/objects/044199c3-0af6-49f2-b13b-53da1e3ab29e] | Nov 14 06:11 | |
| vZS1 | This cretin mjg59 is polluting my IRC with the same bloody messages. Like some sort of drone. Another one to ignore | Nov 14 06:26 |
| schestowitz | https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmQ6YBEztdbiojpMUCmbvnC5LyEa8vBHDS1QeUh83yhXoC | Nov 14 06:27 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ipfs.io | IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Friday, November 13, 2020 | Nov 14 06:27 | |
| vZS1 | I'll check if the cron job worked when I log on to my desktop | Nov 14 06:30 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todayโs #HowTos | #UNIX โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144359 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c222ad4d-91cc-499f-bfd4-80b7c204aae4] | Nov 14 06:30 | |
| schestowitz | "Almost nine years ago, I wrote an article titled โRichard Stallman was right all alongโ, still one of the most popular, if not the most popular, articles ever posted on OSNews." https://www.osnews.com/story/132577/macs-are-a-privacy-nightmare/ | Nov 14 06:31 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Macs are a privacy nightmare โ OSnews | Nov 14 06:31 | |
| schestowitz | vZS1: I think I'm ready to tun those jobs unsupervised | Nov 14 06:32 |
| schestowitz | without sanity check by human (hi) | Nov 14 06:32 |
| vZS1 | Morning | Nov 14 06:32 |
| vZS1 | I've updated the scripts, don't forget | Nov 14 06:33 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Macs are a privacy nightmare http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144338#comment-27140 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b71a56bd-7040-4352-b889-cb1e3bc97a66] | Nov 14 06:34 | |
| vZS1 | The next big issue is going to be tweaking for scale. Pis can't handle loading everything into RAM. It works for now because the index is small | Nov 14 06:35 |
| vZS1 | But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it | Nov 14 06:36 |
| vZS1 | I'm going to convert all the printf lines to logger lines. So there's an audit trail in the syslog | Nov 14 06:38 |
| vZS1 | Will make debugging cron cock-ups a lot easier | Nov 14 06:38 |
| vZS1 | By tomorrow, I should have the whole node automated with decent logging. | Nov 14 06:40 |
| vZS1 | I also promised chovy that I'd check out his project. So I need to do that this weekend. | Nov 14 06:40 |
| vZS1 | I'm going to also write a script to automatically configure the an IPFS node with a repo for handling the TR index. That way everything is reproducible when I have to install this again on another system. | Nov 14 06:43 |
| vZS1 | Should be done with this in a week or two. | Nov 14 06:43 |
| schestowitz | today I will post lots of EPO things | Nov 14 06:59 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne too says they're of interest, it's just that they take much effort to prepare | Nov 14 06:59 |
| schestowitz | I see Guido Van/van Icaza gets or had received loads of flak | Nov 14 07:00 |
| schestowitz | some from people who read techrights | Nov 14 07:00 |
| schestowitz | I think it has woken up more people to the thread posed by entryism | Nov 14 07:01 |
| schestowitz | paying loads of money for this retired man while firing 5000 workers or more | Nov 14 07:01 |
| schestowitz | and even firing Azure staff | Nov 14 07:01 |
| schestowitz | IIS is collapsing | Nov 14 07:01 |
| schestowitz | but I'm not sure what else to say about it which we haven't said before, so will focus on EPO today | Nov 14 07:01 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: should we bother generating objects for older days/months/years | Nov 14 07:02 |
| schestowitz | that would needlessly grow the index, I think | Nov 14 07:02 |
| vZS1 | Up to you | Nov 14 07:03 |
| vZS1 | Things seem fine how they are now | Nov 14 07:03 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Jonathan Riddell: Linux App Summit 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144333#comment-27141 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3eb41d87-713f-4117-bb15-bb2a71910b8f] | Nov 14 07:06 | |
| schestowitz | yeah | Nov 14 07:08 |
| schestowitz | I think IPFS doesn't need to be accommodated retroactively for 14 years' worth of things... UNLESS.. | Nov 14 07:08 |
| schestowitz | [correct me if I am wrong] | Nov 14 07:08 |
| schestowitz | IPFS has discoverability... OR | Nov 14 07:08 |
| schestowitz | will have that | Nov 14 07:08 |
| schestowitz | like a search engine for obkects | Nov 14 07:08 |
| schestowitz | *objects | Nov 14 07:09 |
| schestowitz | https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2020/11/13/there-is-always-a-curlopt-for-it/ | Nov 14 07:12 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-there is always a CURLOPT for it | daniel.haxx.se | Nov 14 07:12 | |
| vZS1 | Search engines operate on metadata | Nov 14 07:15 |
| vZS1 | So the more metadata you have for each CID in your index, the easier it will be to find things | Nov 14 07:16 |
| schestowitz | but here's the the thing | Nov 14 07:16 |
| schestowitz | let me say this | Nov 14 07:16 |
| schestowitz | assuming ipfs can interoperate | Nov 14 07:16 |
| schestowitz | I see guix is listed as partner or whatever | Nov 14 07:17 |
| schestowitz | not gnunet | Nov 14 07:17 |
| schestowitz | if people want "not Web" results | Nov 14 07:17 |
| schestowitz | or text onlt | Nov 14 07:17 |
| schestowitz | or only decentralised | Nov 14 07:17 |
| schestowitz | isn't there some search engine, however crude, to help them mine and dig up stuff from ipfs? | Nov 14 07:17 |
| schestowitz | we'd have an advantage if we build up indices for those | Nov 14 07:17 |
| schestowitz | otherwise not really.. | Nov 14 07:18 |
| schestowitz | BTW | Nov 14 07:18 |
| schestowitz | Twitter is 'shutting down' | Nov 14 07:18 |
| schestowitz | for those who don't access it "the Twitter way" | Nov 14 07:18 |
| schestowitz | "This is the legacy version of twitter.com. We will be shutting it down on 15 December 2020. Please switch to a supported browser or device. You can see a list of supported browsers in our Help Center." | Nov 14 07:19 |
| schestowitz | That's a shame, I would stop accessing it altogether if it means what I think it means | Nov 14 07:19 |
| schestowitz | Reddit became bloated and is becoming app-only | Nov 14 07:19 |
| schestowitz | they will kill of the "old reddit" mode | Nov 14 07:19 |
| schestowitz | and kill themselves in the process | Nov 14 07:19 |
| vZS1 | IPFS is hash based. Metadata isn't attached to objects. It's separation of concerns. That's why it's important to develop indices which are easy to use in a search engine like Lucene | Nov 14 07:21 |
| schestowitz | what is such an index? | Nov 14 07:22 |
| schestowitz | Does Lucene access these? | Nov 14 07:22 |
| schestowitz | or just in theory? | Nov 14 07:22 |
| vZS1 | In theory | Nov 14 07:22 |
| schestowitz | and, if so, where is a front end? | Nov 14 07:22 |
| vZS1 | People have to make their own | Nov 14 07:23 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: tell ipfs devs there might be an interest in searching | Nov 14 07:23 |
| schestowitz | for those who want to get off the web | Nov 14 07:23 |
| vZS1 | IPFS is just a filesystem | Nov 14 07:23 |
| vZS1 | Index sharing is not really a concern for them | Nov 14 07:23 |
| schestowitz | people send me email about it | Nov 14 07:23 |
| schestowitz | they want more of ipfs | Nov 14 07:23 |
| schestowitz | but don't know how/where to find it | Nov 14 07:23 |
| schestowitz | ipfs is like www in that regard | Nov 14 07:24 |
| vZS1 | "it"? | Nov 14 07:24 |
| schestowitz | sites are like indixes | Nov 14 07:24 |
| schestowitz | with fancy hypermark to navigate | Nov 14 07:24 |
| schestowitz | and it all boils down to servers with filesystems | Nov 14 07:24 |
| schestowitz | they're presented and accessed by sgml and search engines that spider those | Nov 14 07:24 |
| schestowitz | heck, remember mozdev? | Nov 14 07:25 |
| vZS1 | I like IPFS how it is now it's | Nov 14 07:25 |
| vZS1 | Simple | Nov 14 07:25 |
| schestowitz | or even web directories? | Nov 14 07:25 |
| schestowitz | at least make ipfs web directories | Nov 14 07:25 |
| vZS1 | And abstract | Nov 14 07:25 |
| schestowitz | and if not directories, then large high-level indices | Nov 14 07:26 |
| schestowitz | arrange by topic, domain etc. | Nov 14 07:26 |
| schestowitz | or make "news" sites for ipfs | Nov 14 07:26 |
| schestowitz | split into sections | Nov 14 07:26 |
| schestowitz | that would massively help adoption | Nov 14 07:26 |
| vZS1 | That's up to the community | Nov 14 07:26 |
| schestowitz | people want to be included in those | Nov 14 07:26 |
| vZS1 | Just like how index sites like PirateBay | Nov 14 07:26 |
| vZS1 | Exist | Nov 14 07:26 |
| schestowitz | right | Nov 14 07:27 |
| schestowitz | what's the equiv for ipfs? | Nov 14 07:27 |
| schestowitz | or tpb? | Nov 14 07:27 |
| schestowitz | *of tpb | Nov 14 07:27 |
| vZS1 | Doesn't exist | Nov 14 07:27 |
| schestowitz | let's make one | Nov 14 07:27 |
| schestowitz | I have the time | Nov 14 07:27 |
| schestowitz | we can host one in techrights, too | Nov 14 07:28 |
| schestowitz | and make it available as html, text file, etc. | Nov 14 07:28 |
| schestowitz | fetchable over several protocol | Nov 14 07:28 |
| schestowitz | do you have a set of indices for different sites | Nov 14 07:28 |
| schestowitz | can you extract page title for each fast...? | Nov 14 07:29 |
| schestowitz | https://www.searchenginejournal.com/web-directories-list/287799/ | Nov 14 07:29 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.searchenginejournal.com | 21 Web Directories That Still Have Value | Nov 14 07:29 | |
| vZS1 | Don't have the time for another project right now | Nov 14 07:30 |
| vZS1 | After I finish this IPFS automation I'm going to go off and resume another project of mine. | Nov 14 07:30 |
| vZS1 | I think what's more important is to share indices | Nov 14 07:31 |
| vZS1 | Instead of making a centralised site | Nov 14 07:31 |
| schestowitz | no need for centralised | Nov 14 07:31 |
| schestowitz | that would miss the point | Nov 14 07:31 |
| vZS1 | Yeah | Nov 14 07:32 |
| schestowitz | but the indices themselves are distributed across | Nov 14 07:32 |
| schestowitz | and synced among nodess | Nov 14 07:32 |
| schestowitz | but classifying and sorting objects would help | Nov 14 07:32 |
| schestowitz | like, "give me all objects from domain X that cover topic Y" | Nov 14 07:32 |
| schestowitz | or, "give all multimedia files of music of genre Z" | Nov 14 07:33 |
| vZS1 | That's role really should be played by the metadata in indices | Nov 14 07:33 |
| *davisr__ (davisr@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/davisr) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 07:33 | |
| schestowitz | vZS1: but they're hard to find and search fast | Nov 14 07:34 |
| schestowitz | web directories perished | Nov 14 07:34 |
| schestowitz | because most people reckoned it's "faster to google it" | Nov 14 07:34 |
| vZS1 | It's important people learn to work with different indices from different publishers | Nov 14 07:35 |
| vZS1 | Trying to do a Google is a great way for a monopoly to form | Nov 14 07:35 |
| vZS1 | That's why it's important publishers make their own index easily accessible | Nov 14 07:35 |
| *davisr_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Nov 14 07:36 | |
| vZS1 | Have an RSS feed dedicated to your IPFS index | Nov 14 07:36 |
| schestowitz | I know what you mean | Nov 14 07:36 |
| schestowitz | not concern-trolling here btw | Nov 14 07:36 |
| schestowitz | I want ipfs to grow | Nov 14 07:37 |
| vZS1 | Maybe use JSON to make it easier to include various metadata | Nov 14 07:37 |
| schestowitz | and people ask me about it | Nov 14 07:37 |
| schestowitz | they want MOAR of it | Nov 14 07:37 |
| schestowitz | so wait... | Nov 14 07:37 |
| schestowitz | you say, | Nov 14 07:37 |
| schestowitz | people subscribe to indices | Nov 14 07:37 |
| schestowitz | that they like | Nov 14 07:37 |
| vZS1 | Yeah | Nov 14 07:37 |
| schestowitz | like they do rss/xml? | Nov 14 07:37 |
| schestowitz | I see | Nov 14 07:37 |
| vZS1 | Yep | Nov 14 07:38 |
| schestowitz | what if I want to search broadly on topics? | Nov 14 07:38 |
| vZS1 | I already said this a while ago | Nov 14 07:38 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Apple Users Got Owned http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144338#comment-27142 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2f7ac1be-a3b2-4645-af4c-f1ce8b14eb10] | Nov 14 07:38 | |
| vZS1 | That's why they ask people | Nov 14 07:38 |
| schestowitz | kind of like google news | Nov 14 07:38 |
| schestowitz | is it manually curated then? | Nov 14 07:38 |
| vZS1 | People can aggregate RSS | Nov 14 07:38 |
| vZS1 | Of various indices | Nov 14 07:38 |
| schestowitz | can someone, say, automate creating index for many ipfs nodes with linux news? | Nov 14 07:38 |
| vZS1 | This prevents a centralised monopoly like Google emerging | Nov 14 07:39 |
| vZS1 | I'm not going to contribute to any work that makes IPFS more centralised | Nov 14 07:39 |
| schestowitz | not suggesting that | Nov 14 07:39 |
| vZS1 | I know but I'm just saying | Nov 14 07:40 |
| schestowitz | searching indices to make new collections with some descriptions is not a monopoly | Nov 14 07:40 |
| schestowitz | it's another index, or custom-made one/s | Nov 14 07:40 |
| vZS1 | PirateBay is a monopoly, if you think about it | Nov 14 07:40 |
| vZS1 | It's a centralised index | Nov 14 07:40 |
| schestowitz | the index itself is | Nov 14 07:41 |
| schestowitz | the inevitable | Nov 14 07:41 |
| vZS1 | But building aggregation of RSS feeds is much better | Nov 14 07:41 |
| schestowitz | let me think... | Nov 14 07:41 |
| schestowitz | say we had one ipfs object for every individual article | Nov 14 07:41 |
| schestowitz | with summary and title noted for each cid | Nov 14 07:42 |
| schestowitz | and then we aggregated many indices like these | Nov 14 07:42 |
| schestowitz | with meta for dates | Nov 14 07:42 |
| schestowitz | you have a massive index of objects, which can be sorted on the fly | Nov 14 07:42 |
| schestowitz | then slices based on keywords | Nov 14 07:42 |
| schestowitz | would that be a monopoly risk? | Nov 14 07:43 |
| schestowitz | you could even make cron jobs | Nov 14 07:43 |
| schestowitz | to make some custom-made indices periodically | Nov 14 07:43 |
| schestowitz | e.g. "Linux" on IPFS | Nov 14 07:43 |
| vZS1 | Do it like this instead: | Nov 14 07:43 |
| schestowitz | and then output that to some static daily ipfs object | Nov 14 07:44 |
| schestowitz | BTW (side question) what gnu/linux sites other than us have ipfs indices at this moment? | Nov 14 07:44 |
| schestowitz | I'd love to have their indices to play on/hack on | Nov 14 07:44 |
| schestowitz | could even make a daily post like "around the IPFS, with titled and CIDs of interest to the readers" | Nov 14 07:45 |
| schestowitz | *titles | Nov 14 07:45 |
| schestowitz | LOL. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/735211/signin-screen-has-only-other-user-and-i-cannot-sign-in/ a source of endless amusement. | Nov 14 07:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 503 @ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/735211/signin-screen-has-only-other-user-and-i-cannot-sign-in/ ) | Nov 14 07:48 | |
| vZS1 | Make sure each publisher religiously maintains an RSS feed for their own index. They can make various indices of CID with metadata in those indices of CIDs. Next, people just subscribe to the feeds they like. Now you can ask friends for their RSS links and aggregate feeds. What I'm trying to say, in conclusion, is to not aggregate indices but aggregate RSS feeds of indices instead. That way people know where to look for objects on certain top | Nov 14 07:48 |
| vZS1 | A search engine like Google for raw indices is a one-way route to monopoly | Nov 14 07:49 |
| vZS1 | We need to prevent that from happening | Nov 14 07:49 |
| vZS1 | Because then that engine would control what's popular | Nov 14 07:49 |
| vZS1 | RSS would mean people have full control over what they follow | Nov 14 07:50 |
| vZS1 | And | Nov 14 07:51 |
| vZS1 | Here's the important thing. People use something like Lucene or Elasticsearch on indices they are subscribed to. | Nov 14 07:51 |
| vZS1 | Because of the metadata in the indices of CID for each publisher | Nov 14 07:52 |
| schestowitz | the scope would be limited | Nov 14 07:52 |
| schestowitz | to what they can physically store and manually select | Nov 14 07:52 |
| schestowitz | for that matter | Nov 14 07:52 |
| schestowitz | since centralisation is mentioned | Nov 14 07:52 |
| vZS1 | That's the job of subscribing to the right RSS feeds | Nov 14 07:52 |
| schestowitz | how do I access ipfs objects without accessing ipfs.io? | Nov 14 07:53 |
| schestowitz | is there a desktop client? | Nov 14 07:53 |
| vZS1 | Yes | Nov 14 07:53 |
| vZS1 | Several | Nov 14 07:53 |
| schestowitz | in debian repos? | Nov 14 07:53 |
| vZS1 | I don't know about that | Nov 14 07:53 |
| schestowitz | the firefox extension seems to lack that | Nov 14 07:53 |
| schestowitz | I see no option to open up a given CID | Nov 14 07:53 |
| schestowitz | ipfs.io seems like a potential privacy hazard if accessed through there | Nov 14 07:54 |
| vZS1 | Give me a minute I'll link | Nov 14 07:54 |
| schestowitz | or over https | Nov 14 07:54 |
| schestowitz | sometimes I check my objects just uploaded work | Nov 14 07:55 |
| schestowitz | and I know (for now) no other way then entering them over httpd | Nov 14 07:55 |
| schestowitz | *http/s | Nov 14 07:55 |
| schestowitz | *than | Nov 14 07:56 |
| vZS1 | https://docs.ipfs.io/install/ipfs-desktop/ | Nov 14 07:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-docs.ipfs.io | IPFS Desktop | IPFS Docs | Nov 14 07:57 | |
| schestowitz | hmmm...shithub | Nov 14 07:57 |
| schestowitz | even the page itself | Nov 14 07:58 |
| schestowitz | wait, checking more | Nov 14 07:58 |
| schestowitz | it runs a whole node | Nov 14 07:58 |
| schestowitz | seems like an overkill | Nov 14 07:58 |
| schestowitz | let's say someone just wants to easily open up objects | Nov 14 07:59 |
| schestowitz | without becoming part of the sharing network | Nov 14 07:59 |
| schestowitz | and without local store of objects | Nov 14 07:59 |
| schestowitz | "And either way, IPFS Desktop will automatically check for updates." | Nov 14 08:00 |
| schestowitz | Snaps | Nov 14 08:00 |
| schestowitz | automatic updates | Nov 14 08:01 |
| vZS1 | You should be able to turn off the daemon | Nov 14 08:01 |
| schestowitz | doesn't sound like something I'd recommend people install tbh | Nov 14 08:01 |
| schestowitz | need something simpler | Nov 14 08:01 |
| schestowitz | like a downloader | Nov 14 08:01 |
| schestowitz | from peers | Nov 14 08:01 |
| schestowitz | without becoming a peer | Nov 14 08:01 |
| schestowitz | like ipfs-wget [options] [CID] | Nov 14 08:02 |
| schestowitz | or browser that takes CIDs as addresses | Nov 14 08:02 |
| schestowitz | none of the backend stuff and panels | Nov 14 08:02 |
| schestowitz | file association with programs can be done at OS level | Nov 14 08:02 |
| schestowitz | can I put ip:/CID to fetch files from? | Nov 14 08:03 |
| vZS1 | Front ends are not something I've got the time to work on. | Nov 14 08:03 |
| schestowitz | assuming they store only shards of data but enough to serve whole files if the files were originally constructed there.. | Nov 14 08:03 |
| schestowitz | to a lot of people installing such a thing would feel like "becoming part of the botnet" | Nov 14 08:04 |
| schestowitz | rather than passive readers | Nov 14 08:04 |
| vZS1 | You can't pull without contributing | Nov 14 08:06 |
| vZS1 | That opens up the system to abuse | Nov 14 08:06 |
| vZS1 | Just how you can't torrent without uploading | Nov 14 08:06 |
| schestowitz | I'm backing up our whole node by the way | Nov 14 08:07 |
| schestowitz | to a machine that I back up externally, too | Nov 14 08:07 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/ darn. | Nov 14 08:07 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-sneak.berlin | Jeffrey Paul: Your Computer Isn't Yours | Nov 14 08:07 | |
| oiaohm | Stuff apple is getting away with. | Nov 14 08:07 |
| schestowitz | yeah, by dumbing people down | Nov 14 08:07 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft will follow | Nov 14 08:07 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: well, I can write code to scrape ipfs.io in theory | Nov 14 08:08 |
| vZS1 | Making it possible to download without uploading will kill any P2P network | Nov 14 08:08 |
| schestowitz | so you give a CID and then it gets that off the public copy | Nov 14 08:08 |
| vZS1 | You need an HTTP gateway for that | Nov 14 08:09 |
| schestowitz | so we know it >is< possible to get files without becoming part of the network | Nov 14 08:09 |
| schestowitz | it's just actively discouraged | Nov 14 08:09 |
| vZS1 | Yes but that requires an HTTP gateway | Nov 14 08:09 |
| vZS1 | Which defeats the whole purpose of IPFS | Nov 14 08:09 |
| schestowitz | depends | Nov 14 08:09 |
| schestowitz | even if just 10% becoming part of the network | Nov 14 08:09 |
| schestowitz | or it runs on externa devices like raspis | Nov 14 08:09 |
| schestowitz | you can still get the thing going | Nov 14 08:10 |
| vZS1 | Either way. I only work on the CLI level. So I don't really have any plans to do anything more than that | Nov 14 08:10 |
| schestowitz | I can write a bash tool | Nov 14 08:10 |
| schestowitz | to help me scrape off ipfs.io | Nov 14 08:10 |
| schestowitz | or make a GUI tool | Nov 14 08:10 |
| schestowitz | it's only a few lines of code | Nov 14 08:10 |
| schestowitz | for me to check if the objects work correctly | Nov 14 08:11 |
| schestowitz | just saying | Nov 14 08:11 |
| vZS1 | You can just use the http gateway | Nov 14 08:11 |
| schestowitz | need a browser for that | Nov 14 08:11 |
| vZS1 | with the idea you've just mentioned | Nov 14 08:11 |
| schestowitz | overkill | Nov 14 08:11 |
| vZS1 | you can use wget | Nov 14 08:11 |
| schestowitz | command line | Nov 14 08:11 |
| vZS1 | or curl | Nov 14 08:11 |
| vZS1 | So no need for a browser | Nov 14 08:13 |
| schestowitz | a GUI is useful in some cases | Nov 14 08:13 |
| schestowitz | the browser still needs more than CID entering | Nov 14 08:13 |
| schestowitz | the context in the domain | Nov 14 08:13 |
| vZS1 | You can make a front end for your tool. Nothing stopping you from making a GUI for you | Nov 14 08:14 |
| schestowitz | think like read-ipfs [CID] | Nov 14 08:14 |
| vZS1 | In fact, I encourage it | Nov 14 08:14 |
| schestowitz | to then open it up | Nov 14 08:14 |
| schestowitz | no domain needed | Nov 14 08:14 |
| vZS1 | IPFS tools should be made by users | Nov 14 08:14 |
| vZS1 | To use it how they wish | Nov 14 08:14 |
| vZS1 | That's why I am against adding anything else to IPFS itself | Nov 14 08:14 |
| schestowitz | wget CID | nano | Nov 14 08:14 |
| vZS1 | It's abstract and should remain that way | Nov 14 08:14 |
| vZS1 | This is how it remains flexible | Nov 14 08:14 |
| schestowitz | wget CID-of-index| head -n1 | wget ... | nano | Nov 14 08:15 |
| vZS1 | If they add any extra garbage, I will just fork it and get rid of the garbage | Nov 14 08:15 |
| schestowitz | we need tools to simplify this | Nov 14 08:15 |
| schestowitz | like youtube-dl URL | Nov 14 08:15 |
| schestowitz | which generally works | Nov 14 08:15 |
| schestowitz | make ipfs-dl | Nov 14 08:15 |
| vZS1 | yeah. A nice wrapper to use | Nov 14 08:15 |
| schestowitz | for CID as sole argument | Nov 14 08:15 |
| schestowitz | that would help | Nov 14 08:16 |
| schestowitz | for those who don't want to learn too much | Nov 14 08:16 |
| schestowitz | and it could randomly locate and choose which node to fetch from at the gateways | Nov 14 08:16 |
| schestowitz | Then I can say things like | Nov 14 08:16 |
| vZS1 | You could just have a file with a list of gatewayss | Nov 14 08:16 |
| schestowitz | OK, read techrights without connecting to the site | Nov 14 08:16 |
| schestowitz | take CID we advertise, plug into this simple tool | Nov 14 08:17 |
| schestowitz | or run this in the command line | Nov 14 08:17 |
| schestowitz | ./techrights-news date | Nov 14 08:17 |
| vZS1 | This would help people who don't have the bandwidth to use a node. | Nov 14 08:17 |
| schestowitz | ./techrights-news CID | Nov 14 08:17 |
| vZS1 | So there are some benefits | Nov 14 08:17 |
| schestowitz | and it does its thing, connecting and getting the files | Nov 14 08:17 |
| schestowitz | let's do this | Nov 14 08:17 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: https://github.com/ipfs/ipget there is the ipget command. | Nov 14 08:18 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub - ipfs/ipget: Retrieve files over IPFS and save them locally. | Nov 14 08:18 | |
| schestowitz | we can help more people access the network, first as read-only | Nov 14 08:18 |
| schestowitz | later they might participaote | Nov 14 08:18 |
| schestowitz | ipfs is daunting to new users | Nov 14 08:18 |
| schestowitz | I got al confused by the FF plugin | Nov 14 08:18 |
| vZS1 | Go ahead. It's good that you're using IPFS in your own way. That's how this ecosystem should work. | Nov 14 08:19 |
| schestowitz | right now people can curl http/techrights.org/txt | nano | Nov 14 08:19 |
| schestowitz | but let's do ipfs command | nano | Nov 14 08:19 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: maybe I will code something today | Nov 14 08:19 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: is there an api to access a gateway at random | Nov 14 08:20 |
| schestowitz | or search across known ones? | Nov 14 08:20 |
| vZS1 | I don't know | Nov 14 08:20 |
| schestowitz | can also attempt one | Nov 14 08:20 |
| schestowitz | and if that fails, try the next | Nov 14 08:20 |
| schestowitz | what exists other than ipfs.io? | Nov 14 08:20 |
| vZS1 | No idea. I haven't checked | Nov 14 08:20 |
| schestowitz | because it would be nice to have a list of domains as fallbacks | Nov 14 08:21 |
| vZS1 | All my work on IPFS has been via my own tools and code. | Nov 14 08:21 |
| vZS1 | So I'm the wrong person to ask for that kind of stuff | Nov 14 08:21 |
| schestowitz | ok, makes sense | Nov 14 08:21 |
| schestowitz | I don't want to write a tool that's wired to one single domain | Nov 14 08:22 |
| schestowitz | rather than search across a few | Nov 14 08:22 |
| schestowitz | or pick one at random to make centralisation harder | Nov 14 08:22 |
| schestowitz | and surveillance harder, too | Nov 14 08:23 |
| vZS1 | Remember, HTTP, by default, is centralised | Nov 14 08:23 |
| schestowitz | as that would be another www | Nov 14 08:23 |
| vZS1 | Nothing is going to replace running your own node | Nov 14 08:23 |
| vZS1 | That's the whole point of IPFS | Nov 14 08:23 |
| vZS1 | And I don't work outside that scope | Nov 14 08:23 |
| schestowitz | there is risk associated with running a node | Nov 14 08:24 |
| schestowitz | it can send outward illegal material | Nov 14 08:24 |
| schestowitz | as happeend apparently to matt dehart | Nov 14 08:24 |
| schestowitz | they arrested him | Nov 14 08:24 |
| vZS1 | I don't pin random material | Nov 14 08:24 |
| schestowitz | calling him pedo | Nov 14 08:24 |
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| vZS1 | It's not like ipfs can pin things you don't want it to | Nov 14 08:25 |
| oiaohm | There is also the problem that running a server of any form can be a breach of different ISP policies. | Nov 14 08:25 |
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| oiaohm | Its get complex attempting to be p2p and get to as many users as possible, | Nov 14 08:25 |
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| vZS1 | So as much as I appreciate your sentiment of making it more accessible via HTTP. I think that harms IPFS | Nov 14 08:25 |
| vZS1 | Just how GitHub harms people who don't bother to learn Git | Nov 14 08:26 |
| schestowitz | GitHub is different | Nov 14 08:26 |
| schestowitz | it's one domain | Nov 14 08:26 |
| schestowitz | secret code | Nov 14 08:26 |
| schestowitz | DMCA | Nov 14 08:26 |
| vZS1 | The abstract principle is the same | Nov 14 08:26 |
| schestowitz | ipfs could have a node set up here too, for http | Nov 14 08:26 |
| schestowitz | ipfs.io itself is doing that | Nov 14 08:27 |
| schestowitz | there's no 'master node' | Nov 14 08:27 |
| vZS1 | All my work is narrowly focused on making it easy to run your own node on low-powered devices. | Nov 14 08:27 |
| schestowitz | unless... the sole gateway is just that one | Nov 14 08:27 |
| vZS1 | I don't intend to do anything else with IPFS after I'm done with that. | Nov 14 08:28 |
| schestowitz | windows update is also p2 | Nov 14 08:29 |
| schestowitz | p2p | Nov 14 08:29 |
| schestowitz | for us ipfs is good for: | Nov 14 08:29 |
| schestowitz | 1) bypassing browsers | Nov 14 08:29 |
| schestowitz | 2) bypassing single point of failure | Nov 14 08:29 |
| schestowitz | making that more easily accessible would help | Nov 14 08:29 |
| vZS1 | Making people not run their own node hurts IPFS | Nov 14 08:30 |
| vZS1 | Because you take away potential peers | Nov 14 08:30 |
| vZS1 | The more peers, the less load on everyone | Nov 14 08:30 |
| vZS1 | So I am not going to contribute to any HTTP-based work | Nov 14 08:30 |
| schestowitz | disributing around is a form of deterrence against SLAPP | Nov 14 08:30 |
| schestowitz | as they know upfront they play whack a mole | Nov 14 08:30 |
| schestowitz | zoobab mirrors EPO pages in GitHub before Microsoft took over | Nov 14 08:31 |
| schestowitz | that happened with wikileaks in 2010 | Nov 14 08:31 |
| schestowitz | hundreds of known mirrors, so the US govt. could not just target AWS/Amazon to make cablegate go away | Nov 14 08:31 |
| schestowitz | [08:30] <vZS1> Because you take away potential peers | Nov 14 08:32 |
| schestowitz | not everyone can run a node | Nov 14 08:32 |
| schestowitz | for several different reasons | Nov 14 08:32 |
| schestowitz | in different places | Nov 14 08:32 |
| schestowitz | I might take a risk by running my own | Nov 14 08:33 |
| vZS1 | I disagree | Nov 14 08:33 |
| schestowitz | as my ISP can say I take up upstream b/w without having permit to | Nov 14 08:33 |
| vZS1 | People torrent on their laptop | Nov 14 08:33 |
| vZS1 | They can IPFS on their laptop too | Nov 14 08:33 |
| vZS1 | In any country | Nov 14 08:33 |
| schestowitz | some ISPs discourage torrents/p2p | Nov 14 08:33 |
| vZS1 | on any ISP | Nov 14 08:33 |
| vZS1 | That's why traffic is encrypted | Nov 14 08:33 |
| schestowitz | some pay per usage | Nov 14 08:34 |
| vZS1 | You can always rate-limit ports on your machine | Nov 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | and some want quicker access or one-time access | Nov 14 08:34 |
| vZS1 | There are several applications that allow you to do that | Nov 14 08:34 |
| vZS1 | Anyway | Nov 14 08:34 |
| vZS1 | I am not contributing to any HTTP-based work on IPFS. Apart from indices | Nov 14 08:34 |
| schestowitz | would be good to have "open-when-site-is-offline" tool | Nov 14 08:35 |
| schestowitz | which might even hard-code the CIDs into it | Nov 14 08:35 |
| schestowitz | baked in, for people to read the site, without having to set up their own node | Nov 14 08:35 |
| schestowitz | even if just temporarily | Nov 14 08:35 |
| schestowitz | basically access techrights by peers | Nov 14 08:35 |
| schestowitz | in case there's some incident | Nov 14 08:35 |
| vZS1 | You know, people can only pull an object that they want | Nov 14 08:35 |
| vZS1 | They don't need to pull the entire index | Nov 14 08:36 |
| vZS1 | Then they just turn off the daemon | Nov 14 08:36 |
| schestowitz | they need to install new software for that | Nov 14 08:36 |
| schestowitz | people are generally reluctant | Nov 14 08:36 |
| schestowitz | esp. if it's something they don't know | Nov 14 08:36 |
| schestowitz | and is developed on Microsoft servers | Nov 14 08:36 |
| schestowitz | NSA PRISM and all | Nov 14 08:36 |
| schestowitz | less risk for one-time access if they connect via some existing protocol with a trusted tool like gnu wget | Nov 14 08:37 |
| schestowitz | which many distros have preinstalled | Nov 14 08:37 |
| vZS1 | You are overcomplicating things | Nov 14 08:37 |
| vZS1 | Right now there's one CLI tool | Nov 14 08:37 |
| schestowitz | it's both pragmatic | Nov 14 08:37 |
| vZS1 | That doesn't take long to learn | Nov 14 08:37 |
| schestowitz | and freedom-centric | Nov 14 08:37 |
| schestowitz | accessing a page without installing extra software | Nov 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | from outside one's PPA | Nov 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | can one apt-get $$TOOL$$ | Nov 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | then $$TOOL$$ CID? | Nov 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | for example to access some page? | Nov 14 08:38 |
| schestowitz | without adding new PPA | Nov 14 08:39 |
| schestowitz | or adding snapd | Nov 14 08:39 |
| vZS1 | Who said you need any of that? | Nov 14 08:39 |
| vZS1 | My setup works with plain binaries and no package manager | Nov 14 08:39 |
| schestowitz | it needs to be done via repos | Nov 14 08:39 |
| schestowitz | for most people | Nov 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | otherwise they don't know what they install | Nov 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | wget some binary | bash some binary is risky | Nov 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | to most people | Nov 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | it can do anything | Nov 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | even not by intention | Nov 14 08:40 |
| vZS1 | There are signatures for all these binaries | Nov 14 08:40 |
| vZS1 | GPG signatures | Nov 14 08:40 |
| schestowitz | if the binary gets compromised somehow | Nov 14 08:40 |
| vZS1 | And people can build from source, if they wish. | Nov 14 08:41 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: not playing devil's advocate here | Nov 14 08:41 |
| vZS1 | All the source is availablee | Nov 14 08:41 |
| schestowitz | just stressing things that can help adoption, imho | Nov 14 08:41 |
| schestowitz | and bring peers, in due course | Nov 14 08:41 |
| schestowitz | because people ask me those things ;-) | Nov 14 08:41 |
| schestowitz | I am going to post lots of EPO 'leaks' today | Nov 14 08:42 |
| vZS1 | And go ask Debian upstream why they don't have an IPFS binar | Nov 14 08:42 |
| schestowitz | and it would be good to signal to EPO, "don't even try!" | Nov 14 08:42 |
| vZS1 | OpenBSD does | Nov 14 08:42 |
| schestowitz | (to SLAPP us) | Nov 14 08:42 |
| vZS1 | IPFS binary package* | Nov 14 08:42 |
| schestowitz | very good | Nov 14 08:42 |
| schestowitz | it means they trust it | Nov 14 08:42 |
| schestowitz | it also means it's easy to set up | Nov 14 08:43 |
| vZS1 | So what about our "universal distribution" Debian? Hmm | Nov 14 08:43 |
| vZS1 | Why no IPFS package? | Nov 14 08:43 |
| schestowitz | I assume with one command, though I don't know how openbsd package management works | Nov 14 08:43 |
| vZS1 | Yeah. It's just one command | Nov 14 08:43 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: you can speak to a DD and ask them/him/her to make one | Nov 14 08:43 |
| schestowitz | so for openbsd peoople who read techrights things are easier | Nov 14 08:44 |
| schestowitz | for others it's a few extra steps | Nov 14 08:44 |
| schestowitz | also bypassing the distro as trust mechanism | Nov 14 08:44 |
| vZS1 | I don't have time to think about these things. Because engineering takes up all my time. | Nov 14 08:46 |
| vZS1 | FreeBSD also has a go-ipfs package | Nov 14 08:46 |
| schestowitz | that's very good | Nov 14 08:47 |
| schestowitz | if more distros package it, it would help a lot | Nov 14 08:47 |
| schestowitz | just saying | Nov 14 08:47 |
| schestowitz | then we'd ask readers to install it | Nov 14 08:47 |
| schestowitz | (which is simple and seemingly credible (to them)) | Nov 14 08:48 |
| schestowitz | you'd have more nodes | Nov 14 08:48 |
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| Ariadne | btw one of the main alpine-related companies just fired back at canonical's microk8s: https://www.mirantis.com/blog/congratulations-to-the-k0s-team-on-their-new-kubernetes-distribution/ | Nov 14 08:50 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.mirantis.com | Congratulations to the K0s team on their new Kubernetes distribution! | Nov 14 08:50 | |
| vZS1 | Relying on packages is more of a security threat than downloading binaries and verifying their signatures. | Nov 14 08:50 |
| vZS1 | The trust chain is much smaller. | Nov 14 08:50 |
| vZS1 | So this is not about security | Nov 14 08:51 |
| vZS1 | It's about convenience | Nov 14 08:51 |
| Ariadne | yes, it is fairly easy to slip things into a distro that shouldn't be there | Nov 14 08:51 |
| vZS1 | That's why I am not using a package manager in my work. To keep things more secure. | Nov 14 08:51 |
| vZS1 | If people don't want to use it, that's up to them. | Nov 14 08:51 |
| Ariadne | sponsors and release managers don't have time to check every detail of every package | Nov 14 08:51 |
| Ariadne | that there has not been a major alpine or debian or fedora package with backdoor is largely because nobody has tried it | Nov 14 08:52 |
| Ariadne | they would likely succeed | Nov 14 08:52 |
| vZS1 | Alpine and Arch already have go-ipfs packages anyway | Nov 14 08:54 |
| vZS1 | So I don't see what's preventing Debian and its derivatives | Nov 14 08:54 |
| vZS1 | (this is not about security but convenience) | Nov 14 08:54 |
| schestowitz | good point | Nov 14 08:55 |
| Ariadne | i don't even know what alpine has anymore, it has gotten that big | Nov 14 08:55 |
| Ariadne | i miss the days when alpine was only for servers, before docker et al came along | Nov 14 08:55 |
| Ariadne | we had a whopping 300 packages in the beginning | Nov 14 08:56 |
| Ariadne | :) | Nov 14 08:56 |
| Ariadne | mirantis's enterprise alpine products are pretty neat | Nov 14 08:58 |
| Ariadne | lens is amazing | Nov 14 08:58 |
| vZS1 | So if OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Alpine, Arch, etc. all have go-ipfs packages. There must be a reason Debian and its derivatives don't package it. I would like to know that reason. | Nov 14 08:58 |
| Ariadne | debian packaging is a colossal pain in the fucking ass | Nov 14 08:59 |
| Ariadne | pretty much a HOW-NOT-TO example in packaging | Nov 14 08:59 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: yes, me also | Nov 14 09:00 |
| Ariadne | every other distro: you just write a single file that specifies how a package is built, etc | Nov 14 09:00 |
| schestowitz | no Debian -> no derivs | Nov 14 09:00 |
| schestowitz | inc. Ubuntu in most cases | Nov 14 09:00 |
| Ariadne | debian: you have to do a shitload of work | Nov 14 09:00 |
| schestowitz | whcih makes up most real distros, not joke ones | Nov 14 09:00 |
| vZS1 | Ubuntu does its own thing. You have snap package for go-ipfs | Nov 14 09:00 |
| Ariadne | not anymore, ubuntu is mostly based on snap now | Nov 14 09:00 |
| schestowitz | snappy proprietary ramp | Nov 14 09:01 |
| Ariadne | snap is FOSS | Nov 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | their stats show it's mostly used to lump in binary spyware | Nov 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | skype, spotify, slack etc. | Nov 14 09:01 |
| Ariadne | well, snap itself anyway | Nov 14 09:01 |
| Ariadne | the commercial apps distributed through it, are of course, not FOSS | Nov 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | which tells you where canonical and ubuntu users are aiming | Nov 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | they released package stats yesterday | Nov 14 09:01 |
| Ariadne | yes, they are aiming at people who would like their computers to be useful | Nov 14 09:01 |
| schestowitz | to bad companies | Nov 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | i.e. little gets achieved | Nov 14 09:02 |
| Ariadne | that proprietary software more effectively services user requirements is a flaw in free software, not a flaw in proprietary software | Nov 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | another chromebook-like mindset | Nov 14 09:02 |
| Ariadne | welcome to capitalism (: | Nov 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | "It's LINUX" | Nov 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | as if having that kernel there is "WIN" | Nov 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | might as well use Android | Nov 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | and say, Android won, we won!! | Nov 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | Google wins, we win | Nov 14 09:02 |
| Ariadne | some do that | Nov 14 09:02 |
| schestowitz | RMS job "done' | Nov 14 09:03 |
| Ariadne | RMS job *not* done, but end users don't care about software freedom | Nov 14 09:03 |
| Ariadne | which is a shame, they need it now more than ever | Nov 14 09:03 |
| Ariadne | most deployment of free software is done in service of exploitation of the end user at this point | Nov 14 09:04 |
| schestowitz | that's what techrights does | Nov 14 09:04 |
| schestowitz | it does advocacy | Nov 14 09:04 |
| vZS1 | There is a reason Ubuntu is the most popular distro out there. It's because they aggressively focus on UX | Nov 14 09:04 |
| schestowitz | to remind people of the uselessness of goalless pursuits | Nov 14 09:04 |
| schestowitz | like more drm inside linux | Nov 14 09:04 |
| schestowitz | not much would be accomplished | Nov 14 09:04 |
| schestowitz | and general-purposed computing would be squashed | Nov 14 09:04 |
| Ariadne | hdcp support inside linux is admittedly pretty pointless | Nov 14 09:04 |
| schestowitz | but hey, squashed "WITH LINUX" | Nov 14 09:04 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: it'll go further | Nov 14 09:05 |
| Ariadne | however | Nov 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | hdcp is one aspect of it | Nov 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | and a barrier in terms of compromise | Nov 14 09:05 |
| Ariadne | end user wants to watch netflix | Nov 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | like eme in w3c | Nov 14 09:05 |
| Ariadne | netflix require EME | Nov 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | netflix is part of the problem | Nov 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | we need to educate people | Nov 14 09:05 |
| Ariadne | if you tell end user who wants to watch netflix that netflix is stupid | Nov 14 09:05 |
| Ariadne | they will just continue to use windows | Nov 14 09:05 |
| Ariadne | (: | Nov 14 09:05 |
| schestowitz | not all of them | Nov 14 09:06 |
| Ariadne | most will | Nov 14 09:06 |
| Ariadne | 99% will see that as a non-answer | Nov 14 09:06 |
| schestowitz | it's the assimilation dilemma | Nov 14 09:06 |
| Ariadne | just like how tons of people think RMS is a nutter | Nov 14 09:06 |
| schestowitz | how much do you need to be alike to the thing you replace | Nov 14 09:06 |
| schestowitz | to the point where you become what you fighty | Nov 14 09:06 |
| schestowitz | and then what? | Nov 14 09:06 |
| schestowitz | US 'liberated' iraq | Nov 14 09:06 |
| schestowitz | from a brutal man | Nov 14 09:06 |
| schestowitz | where's iraq today? | Nov 14 09:06 |
| Ariadne | most people don't care that netflix is DRM'd | Nov 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | even worse off | Nov 14 09:07 |
| Ariadne | they just want to watch a movie | Nov 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: most don't know what drm is | Nov 14 09:07 |
| Ariadne | exactly | Nov 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | so you explain to them | Nov 14 09:07 |
| Ariadne | yes, and then most still go | Nov 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | most people didn't know why "those stupid women" should vote | Nov 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | or "their slaves" | Nov 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | but now they vote | Nov 14 09:07 |
| Ariadne | "ok, but i just want to watch terminator 9999" | Nov 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | because people got past this brain damage | Nov 14 09:07 |
| schestowitz | and realised women can - gasp - think too | Nov 14 09:08 |
| Ariadne | and so they put windows back on their machine | Nov 14 09:08 |
| Ariadne | and watch terminator 9999 | Nov 14 09:08 |
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| Ariadne | so, supporting these things is important to actually gain conversions | Nov 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | drm will burn them | Nov 14 09:08 |
| Ariadne | sure | Nov 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | as will other aspects | Nov 14 09:08 |
| Ariadne | but they won't care | Nov 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | not everything you shove down people's throats will be accepted | Nov 14 09:08 |
| Ariadne | they will just say "wah, netflix removed the title i was wanting to watch" | Nov 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | many example of rejected malicious tech | Nov 14 09:08 |
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| Ariadne | and go onto something else | Nov 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | lots of defunct DRM efforts | Nov 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | inc. Micrsooft's | Nov 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | like their burned ebooks | Nov 14 09:08 |
| schestowitz | brb | Nov 14 09:09 |
| Ariadne | this conversation highlights why gnu/linux desktop will never go anywhere | Nov 14 09:09 |
| vZS1 | This has slipped a long way from what I was saying. I'll provide a simple zipped tarball that people can use on any *nix OS. There will instructions on how to verify the signatures for everything. That's where the work ends. I don't want objective-creep. This is for people who want a portable setup on low-powered machines that is secure. | Nov 14 09:09 |
| Ariadne | your average person does not care about technical explanations, they just want netflix & spotify to work | Nov 14 09:10 |
| Ariadne | because its what they know | Nov 14 09:10 |
| Ariadne | and the only solution to that is not to complain about DRM, but to launch a competing DRM-less service which has a similar enough pricing model | Nov 14 09:10 |
| Ariadne | you have some economics experience, you should recognize that | Nov 14 09:10 |
| Ariadne | canonical does gnu/linux desktop a great favor by working on tackling things users actively complain about (like "netflix does not work on my computer") | Nov 14 09:12 |
| Ariadne | yes, netflix is evil. spotify is evil. END USERS DO NOT CARE | Nov 14 09:12 |
| Ariadne | the #1 most requested feature for audacious is "make it work with my spotify account" | Nov 14 09:12 |
| vZS1 | I think you miss the point that a lot of people just torrent DRM content | Nov 14 09:13 |
| vZS1 | Probably most people | Nov 14 09:13 |
| Ariadne | they really don't | Nov 14 09:13 |
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| Ariadne | the only people i know who torrent are people who have technical skills | Nov 14 09:13 |
| vZS1 | You don't need technical skills to go on Piratebay and grab a magnet link to work with your Bittorrent client | Nov 14 09:14 |
| vZS1 | That's just a lie | Nov 14 09:14 |
| Ariadne | most people don't care | Nov 14 09:14 |
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| schestowitz | [09:09] <Ariadne> this conversation highlights why gnu/linux desktop will never go anywhere | Nov 14 09:14 |
| schestowitz | market share-wise you mean | Nov 14 09:14 |
| Ariadne | netflix "just works" with their "smart TV" | Nov 14 09:15 |
| schestowitz | if the goal is freedom, it's doing OK and better than before | Nov 14 09:15 |
| Ariadne | and costs $8.99 | Nov 14 09:15 |
| schestowitz | some would systemd is a regression | Nov 14 09:15 |
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| Ariadne | schestowitz: yes, see, here's the thing: i think people need software freedom more than ever. but that requires making linux tolerable to "normal people" | Nov 14 09:15 |
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| schestowitz | [09:13] <Ariadne> the only people i know who torrent are people who have technical skills | Nov 14 09:16 |
| Ariadne | netflix and spotify also have sync features | Nov 14 09:16 |
| vZS1 | There are plenty of non-canonical projects that focus on UX | Nov 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | no, they have friends and relatives | Nov 14 09:16 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz: some do | Nov 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | some can hand it over to them on usb sticks or similar | Nov 14 09:16 |
| Ariadne | but really, netflix and spotify are used a lot more than you think | Nov 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | it's now hard to pass around files | Nov 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | it's getting easier all the time... and bigger files | Nov 14 09:16 |
| Ariadne | sure | Nov 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | you can fit 10 full length movies on a thumb drive | Nov 14 09:16 |
| Ariadne | that requires caring though | Nov 14 09:16 |
| schestowitz | and they never get counted | Nov 14 09:16 |
| Ariadne | most people who use netflix | Nov 14 09:16 |
| vZS1 | You can do that over torrents as well | Nov 14 09:16 |
| Ariadne | don't even know | Nov 14 09:17 |
| Ariadne | what they want to watch | Nov 14 09:17 |
| vZS1 | People download terabytes of film via torrents | Nov 14 09:17 |
| Ariadne | they just turn netflix on | Nov 14 09:17 |
| vZS1 | Go look on Piratebay | Nov 14 09:17 |
| Ariadne | and look through the list | Nov 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | people don't need to know how to install gnu/linux either | Nov 14 09:17 |
| Ariadne | until something looks good | Nov 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | more and more people can now do it for them | Nov 14 09:17 |
| Ariadne | anyway, this conversation is pointless | Nov 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | more users | Nov 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | lower learning curve | Nov 14 09:17 |
| vZS1 | Also | Nov 14 09:17 |
| vZS1 | Why is this about Linux | Nov 14 09:17 |
| vZS1 | Most people torrenting probably use Windows | Nov 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | most maybe | Nov 14 09:17 |
| Ariadne | because the goal is "make people use free software desktop" | Nov 14 09:17 |
| schestowitz | but that's not the point, unless you see how it started... about DRM and GNU/Linux | Nov 14 09:18 |
| schestowitz | not about the distribution of "Content" | Nov 14 09:18 |
| vZS1 | Most people on the planet can't afford Netflix and Spotify | Nov 14 09:18 |
| vZS1 | That's why they pirate | Nov 14 09:18 |
| Ariadne | i give up on this conversation | Nov 14 09:18 |
| vZS1 | Even people that can afford pirate | Nov 14 09:18 |
| schestowitz | another good point | Nov 14 09:18 |
| vZS1 | You need to expand your world view | Nov 14 09:18 |
| Ariadne | this is fundamentally a waste of time | Nov 14 09:18 |
| schestowitz | they like things that are open access | Nov 14 09:18 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: true, many had this discussion before | Nov 14 09:18 |
| schestowitz | we are not bringing up very novel thinking here | Nov 14 09:19 |
| vZS1 | Yes. This has been said many times before | Nov 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | I'll get to doing articles now | Nov 14 09:19 |
| Ariadne | you guys live in the "free software bubble" | Nov 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | finished work just no w(9am) | Nov 14 09:19 |
| vZS1 | This isn't about free software | Nov 14 09:19 |
| vZS1 | It's about DRM | Nov 14 09:19 |
| Ariadne | my 86 year old grandmother is not torrenting her movies | Nov 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | it's not for her | Nov 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | let her use Windows | Nov 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | i'm fine with it | Nov 14 09:19 |
| vZS1 | Your 86 year old grandmother is not every person on the planet | Nov 14 09:19 |
| schestowitz | she'll lose money and more | Nov 14 09:19 |
| Ariadne | ah, so the free software desktop isn't for the masses | Nov 14 09:19 |
| Ariadne | it's for the classes | Nov 14 09:19 |
| vZS1 | That's anecdotal evidence and a bad argument | Nov 14 09:19 |
| Ariadne | such freedom | Nov 14 09:20 |
| Ariadne | :) | Nov 14 09:20 |
| Ariadne | grandmother gets to be exploited by microsoft and data mined | Nov 14 09:20 |
| Ariadne | but i get to have freedom | Nov 14 09:20 |
| vZS1 | Most people on the planet can't afford Netlfix and Spotify | Nov 14 09:20 |
| Ariadne | do you not see the problem? | Nov 14 09:20 |
| vZS1 | But they want what's on there | Nov 14 09:20 |
| vZS1 | So they torrent it | Nov 14 09:20 |
| Ariadne | yes, i'm aware that some amount of the population torrents | Nov 14 09:21 |
| Ariadne | i'm talking about people in the western world, not the world at large | Nov 14 09:21 |
| vZS1 | Even people in the western world torrent | Nov 14 09:21 |
| Ariadne | yes, some do | Nov 14 09:21 |
| Ariadne | i assure you, most do not | Nov 14 09:21 |
| Ariadne | i literally run an ISP by the way | Nov 14 09:21 |
| vZS1 | And you know everything your users do? | Nov 14 09:22 |
| vZS1 | You've broken packet encryption to find out? | Nov 14 09:22 |
| Ariadne | we monitor aggregated traffic flows for security reasons | Nov 14 09:22 |
| schestowitz | [09:21] <vZS1> Even people in the western world torrent | Nov 14 09:22 |
| schestowitz | since the 90s p2p has been widely used | Nov 14 09:22 |
| Ariadne | the metadata provides sufficient insight to tell me that plenty of people are using netflix and spotify | Nov 14 09:22 |
| schestowitz | among teens and adults | Nov 14 09:22 |
| schestowitz | we cannot just measure 'corporate traffic' | Nov 14 09:22 |
| Ariadne | it is called: look for traffic to/from netflix and spotify ASNs | Nov 14 09:22 |
| schestowitz | such as "Netflix" | Nov 14 09:23 |
| schestowitz | that would miss the point | Nov 14 09:23 |
| schestowitz | like 'analyst' who count Linux share by revenue | Nov 14 09:23 |
| Ariadne | how would it miss the point | Nov 14 09:23 |
| schestowitz | like how much money gets made | Nov 14 09:23 |
| schestowitz | it overlooks the real >value< | Nov 14 09:23 |
| Ariadne | "almost everyone torrents" | Nov 14 09:23 |
| vZS1 | Your arguments aren't making a lot of sense. | Nov 14 09:23 |
| vZS1 | When most of the world can't afford something but a lot of them have access to it | Nov 14 09:24 |
| schestowitz | afaik, it's possible netflix still loses loads of money | Nov 14 09:24 |
| Ariadne | yet netflix and spotify originate half the traffic going across my network | Nov 14 09:24 |
| vZS1 | It's pretty obvious how they got it | Nov 14 09:24 |
| schestowitz | it did in the past, like Twitter | Nov 14 09:24 |
| *Ariadne headdesks | Nov 14 09:24 | |
| schestowitz | Twitter is cutting off more users now | Nov 14 09:24 |
| schestowitz | after the shares collapse | Nov 14 09:24 |
| Ariadne | i give up on this | Nov 14 09:24 |
| Ariadne | it is like arguing with a brick wall | Nov 14 09:24 |
| schestowitz | because you did not convince him | Nov 14 09:24 |
| schestowitz | and re software freedom, you did not convince me neither | Nov 14 09:25 |
| schestowitz | we need to grow | Nov 14 09:25 |
| schestowitz | but not by becoming what we replace | Nov 14 09:25 |
| schestowitz | as that would be own goal | Nov 14 09:25 |
| Ariadne | in the long run, sure | Nov 14 09:25 |
| Ariadne | but you have to convert users in the SHORT run | Nov 14 09:25 |
| schestowitz | we try to accomplish something | Nov 14 09:25 |
| vZS1 | @sche | Nov 14 09:25 |
| schestowitz | and upill battles we face because the monpolisers fight back | Nov 14 09:25 |
| schestowitz | like Micrsooft grabbing shithub | Nov 14 09:25 |
| schestowitz | to attack us | Nov 14 09:25 |
| schestowitz | collectively | Nov 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | at the chokepoint and high level | Nov 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | so we need tr deletegithub now | Nov 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | make it another writeoff | Nov 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft only loses tons of money on it | Nov 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | while firing and losing staff | Nov 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | now bribing Guido van Icaza | Nov 14 09:26 |
| vZS1 | Microsoft is subsidised by taxpayers | Nov 14 09:26 |
| Ariadne | anyway, this is why the free software desktop will never grow | Nov 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | to become a marketing person for MSVS and Azure etc. | Nov 14 09:26 |
| vZS1 | It stopped being a sustainable business a long time ago | Nov 14 09:26 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: that too, during lockdown they fired about 5000 | Nov 14 09:27 |
| Ariadne | because instead of talking about actual pain points and user concerns | Nov 14 09:27 |
| Ariadne | we get | Nov 14 09:27 |
| vZS1 | It's only living because of monopoly | Nov 14 09:27 |
| schestowitz | and got 3 billion in bailout money from US taxpayers | Nov 14 09:27 |
| Ariadne | blah blah blah microsoft | Nov 14 09:27 |
| schestowitz | so the bailout prevented no layoffs there | Nov 14 09:27 |
| schestowitz | even azure layoffs | Nov 14 09:27 |
| Ariadne | so, i'll just continue doing my thing | Nov 14 09:27 |
| schestowitz | IIS is dying | Nov 14 09:27 |
| vZS1 | But that's besides the point | Nov 14 09:27 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: ok | Nov 14 09:27 |
| schestowitz | I will focus on patents today | Nov 14 09:27 |
| schestowitz | got loads of leaks to put out there | Nov 14 09:27 |
| Ariadne | but gnu/linux is an operating system for the classes, not the masses | Nov 14 09:28 |
| Ariadne | and you cannot advance software freedom with this attitude | Nov 14 09:28 |
| mjg59 | And, meanwhile, companies and people that were previously writing free software are moving to non-free licenses | Nov 14 09:28 |
| *chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc0f:7c00:393b:7d1b:915d:b337) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 09:28 | |
| schestowitz | not all | Nov 14 09:28 |
| schestowitz | we can reject their stuff | Nov 14 09:28 |
| mjg59 | And there's no free software community response to that other than "Don't do that" | Nov 14 09:28 |
| Ariadne | like for example | Nov 14 09:28 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz is spot on when he criticizes zemlin for running macOS and not dogfooding | Nov 14 09:29 |
| Ariadne | but the thing is | Nov 14 09:29 |
| Ariadne | for your average person | Nov 14 09:29 |
| Ariadne | linux is not so easy to dogfood | Nov 14 09:29 |
| vZS1 | schestowitz: the cron job worked. | Nov 14 09:29 |
| schestowitz | zemlin should not be in cahrge of LF | Nov 14 09:29 |
| Ariadne | and that is because they have become accustomed to these evil services working | Nov 14 09:29 |
| Ariadne | you're avoiding my point | Nov 14 09:29 |
| schestowitz | mjg59 talked about him "rocking an ipad" too | Nov 14 09:29 |
| schestowitz | who uses that crap? | Nov 14 09:29 |
| schestowitz | and does really technical stuff? | Nov 14 09:29 |
| schestowitz | nobody | Nov 14 09:29 |
| Ariadne | my grandmother uses an ipad | Nov 14 09:29 |
| schestowitz | but zemlin is not technical | Nov 14 09:29 |
| Ariadne | to watch netflix | Nov 14 09:29 |
| schestowitz | (and should be) | Nov 14 09:30 |
| Ariadne | zemlin is CEO | Nov 14 09:30 |
| Ariadne | CEOs are rarely if ever technical | Nov 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | some CEOs are technical | Nov 14 09:30 |
| vZS1 | The node is functioning 100% automated now. Big success. | Nov 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | like Larry page | Nov 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | even nadella is technical | Nov 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | unlike Ballmer | Nov 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Krishna is | Nov 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | zemlin is a tool | Nov 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | monopolists like unqualified people in charge | Nov 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | they're easier to mislead and control | Nov 14 09:30 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: yay! | Nov 14 09:31 |
| Ariadne | anyway | Nov 14 09:31 |
| vZS1 | :D | Nov 14 09:31 |
| Ariadne | again, point is, it is legitimate to criticize zemlin for not dogfooding | Nov 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | [09:29] <Ariadne> linux is not so easy to dogfood | Nov 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | see use cases | Nov 14 09:31 |
| Ariadne | but one must also examine WHY that is | Nov 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | many just browse and read email | Nov 14 09:31 |
| Ariadne | if the use cases are not enabled | Nov 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | so they can use a chromebook | Nov 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | gnu/linux can do anything a chromebook can | Nov 14 09:31 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz: yes, and chromebooks are patched | Nov 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | just needs better advocacy | Nov 14 09:31 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz: to support widevine | Nov 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | we don't buy ads and bribe OEMs/shops | Nov 14 09:31 |
| Ariadne | you do understand this right? | Nov 14 09:31 |
| schestowitz | most people don't need that | Nov 14 09:32 |
| mjg59 | gnu/linux /could/ do anything a chromebook can | Nov 14 09:32 |
| mjg59 | But it doesn't | Nov 14 09:32 |
| schestowitz | your grandma does not need that | Nov 14 09:32 |
| Ariadne | my grandma does need that | Nov 14 09:32 |
| schestowitz | examples? | Nov 14 09:32 |
| Ariadne | because she wants to watch netflix | Nov 14 09:32 |
| mjg59 | It doesn't have a/b firmware updates | Nov 14 09:32 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: so you have super-grandma | Nov 14 09:32 |
| Ariadne | no, i have normal grandma | Nov 14 09:32 |
| mjg59 | It doesn't have transparent per-user home directory encryption | Nov 14 09:32 |
| schestowitz | who needs DRM in the browser? | Nov 14 09:32 |
| Ariadne | she has dimentia and watches netflix on an ipad | Nov 14 09:33 |
| mjg59 | It doesn't have anti-rollback protections | Nov 14 09:33 |
| schestowitz | let her stream movies in youtube | Nov 14 09:33 |
| schestowitz | no drm needed | Nov 14 09:33 |
| Ariadne | youtube movies | Nov 14 09:33 |
| Ariadne | are DRM | Nov 14 09:33 |
| schestowitz | lots of stuff there, no lack of "content" | Nov 14 09:33 |
| schestowitz | not the Google-sold ones | Nov 14 09:33 |
| schestowitz | the clips and stuff | Nov 14 09:33 |
| schestowitz | the way most people 'use' Youtube | Nov 14 09:33 |
| Ariadne | this brings us back to | Nov 14 09:33 |
| Ariadne | gnu/linux is for the classes, not the masses | Nov 14 09:33 |
| vZS1 | Ariadne: I am glad your grandma has something that works for her. And I wish her well. But there need to be alternatives for all the grandmas that can't afford that. | Nov 14 09:34 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: You're advocating without having any understanding of what you're advocating against, which makes your advocacy ineffectual | Nov 14 09:34 |
| Ariadne | you are basically saying to an end user: "you want to watch a movie you just paid $3.99 for? LOL" | Nov 14 09:34 |
| *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | Nov 14 09:34 | |
| Ariadne | never in a million years would i deploy a gnu/linux solution for my grandparents | Nov 14 09:34 |
| *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | Nov 14 09:34 | |
| Ariadne | windows 7 to windows 10 migration was already a complete shitshow, i can only begin to imagine what throwing gnu/linux in front of them would be like | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | [09:34] <Ariadne> you are basically saying to an end user: "you want to watch a movie you just paid $3.99 for? LOL" | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Those are rented, not owned | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | and for limited time | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | some learn over time to avoid that | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | and they download instead | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | not stream | Nov 14 09:35 |
| Ariadne | and most do not care | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | esp. in some places like poor countries | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | China and S Korea move to GNU/Linux | Nov 14 09:35 |
| Ariadne | my grandmother does not care if she owns the movie or not | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Russia claims to as well, albeit slowly | Nov 14 09:35 |
| Ariadne | she just wants to watch a damn movie | Nov 14 09:35 |
| schestowitz | we'll see if they add lots of antifeatures to these | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | so we're doing OK | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | [09:34] <Ariadne> never in a million years would i deploy a gnu/linux solution for my grandparents | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | good luck giving them windows support | Nov 14 09:36 |
| Ariadne | i don't have to | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | e.g. when automatic updates purge their stuff | Nov 14 09:36 |
| Ariadne | i literally | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | or the machine won't boot anymore | Nov 14 09:36 |
| Ariadne | bought an ipad | Nov 14 09:36 |
| Ariadne | and said here you go | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | those fai too | Nov 14 09:36 |
| Ariadne | and if it fucks up | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | our neighbour had one | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | asked me to help them | Nov 14 09:36 |
| Ariadne | we just factory reset it | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | they could not log in anymore | Nov 14 09:36 |
| Ariadne | no big deal | Nov 14 09:36 |
| schestowitz | had to bring that to the shop | Nov 14 09:37 |
| schestowitz | paid loads of money for "support" | Nov 14 09:37 |
| mjg59 | This is the fundamental problem of a huge amount of free software advocacy | Nov 14 09:37 |
| schestowitz | Apple stuff is NOT infallible | Nov 14 09:37 |
| mjg59 | It's from a position of not understanding what people actually want | Nov 14 09:37 |
| Ariadne | ^^^^^^^^^^^ | Nov 14 09:37 |
| schestowitz | and lots of planned obsolescence there | Nov 14 09:37 |
| schestowitz | what many people want is not a yardstick | Nov 14 09:37 |
| schestowitz | many people want Trump | Nov 14 09:37 |
| mjg59 | We don't win by telling people that they're wrong to want what they have | Nov 14 09:38 |
| schestowitz | 71+ million people | Nov 14 09:38 |
| schestowitz | they did not get it | Nov 14 09:38 |
| mjg59 | We win by providing something that's more appealing | Nov 14 09:38 |
| schestowitz | many people also want to kill queers | Nov 14 09:38 |
| schestowitz | and they don't get that | Nov 14 09:38 |
| Ariadne | what i want is: grandma can watch TED talks, youtube movies and netflix, with universal search | Nov 14 09:38 |
| schestowitz | "getting what people want" is a fallacy | Nov 14 09:38 |
| Ariadne | iPadOS provides exactly this | Nov 14 09:38 |
| schestowitz | and a straw man | Nov 14 09:38 |
| Ariadne | no it's not | Nov 14 09:38 |
| Ariadne | while the rolling stones say "you don't always get what you want" | Nov 14 09:38 |
| Ariadne | we can certainly do *better* at trying to match what users want | Nov 14 09:38 |
| Ariadne | alpine got big because we did *better* at matching what *sysadmins* wanted | Nov 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | you don't replace something by becoming that something | Nov 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | :"simple as" | Nov 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | (british talk) | Nov 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | greenpeace isn't giving what people "want" | Nov 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | they want cars | Nov 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | and gasoline | Nov 14 09:39 |
| Ariadne | great, but greenpeace isn't producing computer operating systems | Nov 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | should greenpeace start working with automobile giants and fossil fuel? | Nov 14 09:39 |
| schestowitz | After all, that's "what the masses want" | Nov 14 09:40 |
| Ariadne | greenpeace go and protest things | Nov 14 09:40 |
| schestowitz | maybe PETA should work on "Ethical meat" | Nov 14 09:40 |
| Ariadne | greenpeace go and save whales | Nov 14 09:40 |
| schestowitz | because that's what people want(TM) | Nov 14 09:40 |
| mjg59 | Greenpeace attempts to move people away from cars by explaining why they're harmful | Nov 14 09:40 |
| schestowitz | greenpeace being itself | Nov 14 09:40 |
| mjg59 | It doesn't just say "Use a bus instead" | Nov 14 09:40 |
| schestowitz | and gnu/linux being about liberating users | Nov 14 09:40 |
| schestowitz | not Torvalds and "world domination" fixation | Nov 14 09:40 |
| schestowitz | llook, they EAT THEIR oWN | Nov 14 09:41 |
| schestowitz | they oust even the founder of Linux | Nov 14 09:41 |
| Ariadne | greenpeace also do not shame people for having cars in situations where no alternative exists | Nov 14 09:41 |
| schestowitz | Torvalds is treated like a bad baby | Nov 14 09:41 |
| Ariadne | because they understand that will make people dislike greenpeace | Nov 14 09:41 |
| schestowitz | they do exactly that | Nov 14 09:41 |
| schestowitz | you must have missed some debacles | Nov 14 09:41 |
| schestowitz | like times they stop large boats | Nov 14 09:41 |
| schestowitz | and get flak for it | Nov 14 09:41 |
| Ariadne | no, they don't. they shame governments for not providing alternatives | Nov 14 09:41 |
| schestowitz | or chain themselves to things | Nov 14 09:42 |
| Ariadne | that is different | Nov 14 09:42 |
| schestowitz | PETA also | Nov 14 09:42 |
| Ariadne | those are commercial operations they disrupt | Nov 14 09:42 |
| schestowitz | it's similar in some sense | Nov 14 09:42 |
| Ariadne | it's not | Nov 14 09:42 |
| Ariadne | it is the exact opposite | Nov 14 09:42 |
| schestowitz | mjg59 will read "Similar" as IDENTICAL | Nov 14 09:42 |
| mjg59 | Liar | Nov 14 09:42 |
| schestowitz | gnu/linux uis activism | Nov 14 09:42 |
| schestowitz | it's campaigning | Nov 14 09:42 |
| Ariadne | greenpeace targets commercial activity | Nov 14 09:42 |
| schestowitz | it's about achieving social change | Nov 14 09:42 |
| Ariadne | gnu/linux targets end user | Nov 14 09:42 |
| schestowitz | linux kernel is not | Nov 14 09:42 |
| Ariadne | end user must conform to have software freedom | Nov 14 09:42 |
| schestowitz | gnu/linux liberates users | Nov 14 09:42 |
| Ariadne | does it really? | Nov 14 09:42 |
| schestowitz | yes | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | it does me | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | I have much better freedom | Nov 14 09:43 |
| Ariadne | yes, it liberates the classes | Nov 14 09:43 |
| Ariadne | not the masses | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | and control over my computing | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | my wife does too | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | the masses also | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | my dad used pclinuxos | Nov 14 09:43 |
| Ariadne | i'm glad that you and your wife are part of the classes | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | he did lots of browsing | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | firefox suited him | Nov 14 09:43 |
| Ariadne | yes | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | my dad is not technical | Nov 14 09:43 |
| Ariadne | i am not saying that for all cases gnu/linux is unacceptable | Nov 14 09:43 |
| mjg59 | The single biggest thing ever to enable gnu/linux for the masses was Ubuntu | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | didn't even graduate from college | Nov 14 09:43 |
| Ariadne | mjg59: yes, which is patched to support widevine DRM | Nov 14 09:43 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: yeah, there were no gnu/linux users before 2004 | Nov 14 09:44 |
| mjg59 | By like several orders of magnitude | Nov 14 09:44 |
| schestowitz | like mandriva and all | Nov 14 09:44 |
| schestowitz | nobody | Nov 14 09:44 |
| schestowitz | mandrake back then | Nov 14 09:44 |
| schestowitz | ubuntu is just debian | Nov 14 09:44 |
| schestowitz | with gloss | Nov 14 09:44 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz: i used to use mandrake back in the 90s | Nov 14 09:44 |
| Ariadne | mandrake included proprietary software | Nov 14 09:44 |
| mjg59 | Look you can take the first Ubuntu beta and compare it to Mandrake and there's just no fucking competition | Nov 14 09:44 |
| Ariadne | (netscape) | Nov 14 09:44 |
| schestowitz | different times | Nov 14 09:44 |
| schestowitz | but SuSE was good back then | Nov 14 09:45 |
| mjg59 | It's easy to forget how much of a difference there was | Nov 14 09:45 |
| schestowitz | with yast2 | Nov 14 09:45 |
| Ariadne | how is it different? it is a distribution with non-free software | Nov 14 09:45 |
| schestowitz | don't compare ubuntu 2007ish to 1997 | Nov 14 09:45 |
| schestowitz | not a fair comparison | Nov 14 09:45 |
| mjg59 | But 4.10 was 100% free software | Nov 14 09:45 |
| schestowitz | ubuntu in 2004 was still nothing | Nov 14 09:45 |
| schestowitz | I used it in 2004 | Nov 14 09:45 |
| mjg59 | And gained massive adoption in a short space of time | Nov 14 09:45 |
| schestowitz | not because of Ubuntu | Nov 14 09:45 |
| schestowitz | many major distros, like china's, are debiab-based | Nov 14 09:46 |
| Ariadne | these distributions provide non-free software and patch in HDCP etc because end users have use cases which require them | Nov 14 09:46 |
| schestowitz | even mint might make lmde the defauly soon | Nov 14 09:46 |
| schestowitz | seeing how they treat snapd | Nov 14 09:46 |
| Ariadne | you're dancing around the point | Nov 14 09:46 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: we don't need to encoruage drm | Nov 14 09:46 |
| schestowitz | no, I know where I stand with advocacy | Nov 14 09:46 |
| mjg59 | I'm as disappointed as anyone that Ubuntu ended up adopting non-free software in the default install | Nov 14 09:47 |
| schestowitz | and you want to make gnu/linux like your mac | Nov 14 09:47 |
| schestowitz | and that would help us accomplish little | Nov 14 09:47 |
| Ariadne | actually, it would accomplish a lot | Nov 14 09:47 |
| Ariadne | because it means | Nov 14 09:47 |
| schestowitz | like teaching black americans to abandon black dialects | Nov 14 09:47 |
| Ariadne | we have a seat at the fucking table | Nov 14 09:47 |
| schestowitz | to become "more like white people" | Nov 14 09:47 |
| mjg59 | Jesus christ | Nov 14 09:47 |
| Ariadne | when you have 50 million users, you can say "haha, know what? fuck your DRM" | Nov 14 09:47 |
| schestowitz | or telling natives to abandon their reserves | Nov 14 09:47 |
| Ariadne | and suddenly netflix and spotify care moe | Nov 14 09:47 |
| mjg59 | Fucksake | Nov 14 09:47 |
| schestowitz | put up a suit, enter the rat mazes we call urban cities | Nov 14 09:47 |
| schestowitz | some companies dropped drm | Nov 14 09:48 |
| schestowitz | for or because of bsd/gnu users | Nov 14 09:48 |
| Ariadne | gnu/linux desktop has fuck all negotiating power | Nov 14 09:48 |
| schestowitz | or made fallback options | Nov 14 09:48 |
| schestowitz | some sites have "old" modes | Nov 14 09:48 |
| schestowitz | for people who reject browser bloat | Nov 14 09:48 |
| Ariadne | so your activism is pointless | Nov 14 09:48 |
| mjg59 | Look when you start comparing FUCKING SOFTWARE to PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO ENGAGE IN THEIR BASIC CIVIL LIBERTIES you are not making a strong argument | Nov 14 09:48 |
| schestowitz | so we do make gains | Nov 14 09:48 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: those things are related | Nov 14 09:48 |
| Ariadne | we all agree DRM is bad | Nov 14 09:49 |
| schestowitz | in case you did not notice s/w impact on people's civil rights | Nov 14 09:49 |
| schestowitz | drones, surveillance on protesters etc. | Nov 14 09:49 |
| schestowitz | back door access, union-busting.. | Nov 14 09:49 |
| Ariadne | but you can't convert people by telling them that netflix is dumb, that spotify is dumb | Nov 14 09:49 |
| Ariadne | they will just go back to windows | Nov 14 09:49 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: you call yourself "SJW" and discredit that label | Nov 14 09:49 |
| Ariadne | to which you say "good, let them use windows" | Nov 14 09:49 |
| schestowitz | so foolishly imho | Nov 14 09:49 |
| schestowitz | you mock the idea that fs ideals impact other facets | Nov 14 09:50 |
| vZS1 | DRM doesn't work. You can go on PirateBay and find the latest films and music | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | true | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | and many do | Nov 14 09:50 |
| Ariadne | vZS1: good for pirate bay | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | in a protestant fashion | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | there's drm fatigue | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | read up on doctorow | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | drm always fails eventually | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | and it's becomign tragic | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | each and every time | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | people learn to download and keep things | Nov 14 09:50 |
| schestowitz | drm-free | Nov 14 09:51 |
| vZS1 | So your argument about negotiation power falls apart. DRM issue is not about FOSS | Nov 14 09:51 |
| Ariadne | yes, widevine is already owned | Nov 14 09:51 |
| schestowitz | and "Drm-free" as advertising label is a growing phenomenon | Nov 14 09:51 |
| mjg59 | I publicly described Widevine as being doomed to failure | Nov 14 09:51 |
| schestowitz | netflix was riding vc money | Nov 14 09:51 |
| mjg59 | What position do you think I'm advocating here | Nov 14 09:51 |
| schestowitz | and maybe stilll is | Nov 14 09:51 |
| schestowitz | they think they can 'pull it off' with drm | Nov 14 09:51 |
| Ariadne | the only position i am advocating is "make sure users can actually do what THEY want to do" without preaching to them about being "wrong" | Nov 14 09:51 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: I think yuo advocare defeatism tbh | Nov 14 09:51 |
| schestowitz | and we should know better than this | Nov 14 09:52 |
| schestowitz | many thought azure would be a thing | Nov 14 09:52 |
| schestowitz | it's still losing money | Nov 14 09:52 |
| schestowitz | microsoft lays off aazure taff | Nov 14 09:52 |
| Ariadne | that is not defeatism, that's "making sure users can grow into software freedom and make the tradeoffs they find appropriate" | Nov 14 09:52 |
| schestowitz | staff | Nov 14 09:52 |
| schestowitz | to save money | Nov 14 09:52 |
| Ariadne | by the way, the ability to make tradeoffs is PART of software freedom | Nov 14 09:52 |
| schestowitz | while bribing Guido van Icaza for shilling/spamming | Nov 14 09:52 |
| mjg59 | I've explicitly called the DMCA technical protection mechanisms bullshit that provide no social benefit | Nov 14 09:52 |
| schestowitz | so it turns out "we were right" | Nov 14 09:52 |
| schestowitz | We need ti fight on | Nov 14 09:52 |
| mjg59 | I've encouraged people to circumvent them | Nov 14 09:53 |
| schestowitz | re DMCA, delete github | Nov 14 09:53 |
| schestowitz | decentralise | Nov 14 09:53 |
| mjg59 | I've circumvented them myself | Nov 14 09:53 |
| schestowitz | it works | Nov 14 09:53 |
| schestowitz | lots of software was never banned | Nov 14 09:53 |
| schestowitz | like wikileaks is still offline 10 years after Jo and others thought they could pull the plus at amazon alone | Nov 14 09:53 |
| schestowitz | *online | Nov 14 09:53 |
| schestowitz | not offline | Nov 14 09:53 |
| schestowitz | freudian slip | Nov 14 09:53 |
| mjg59 | I'm not defeatest | Nov 14 09:53 |
| schestowitz | you are in some contexts | Nov 14 09:54 |
| mjg59 | I'm asserting that there are real benefits that proprietary platforms provide to users and simply telling them that they don't need those is not helpful | Nov 14 09:54 |
| schestowitz | and you urge others to give up key fights | Nov 14 09:54 |
| mjg59 | We need to provide an alternative | Nov 14 09:54 |
| schestowitz | you can convince some | Nov 14 09:54 |
| schestowitz | but you are not convincing me | Nov 14 09:54 |
| schestowitz | some said software patents could not be crushed | Nov 14 09:54 |
| mjg59 | tbf you're a fanatic | Nov 14 09:54 |
| schestowitz | that upc was inevitable | Nov 14 09:54 |
| schestowitz | but guess what, we're crushing both | Nov 14 09:54 |
| mjg59 | I'm clearly not going to convince you | Nov 14 09:54 |
| schestowitz | it's just taking persistence | Nov 14 09:55 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: I'm a fanatic ok... | Nov 14 09:55 |
| schestowitz | you know nothing about me | Nov 14 09:55 |
| schestowitz | so drm pushers are good people | Nov 14 09:55 |
| schestowitz | drm rejection is fanatic | Nov 14 09:55 |
| schestowitz | maybe use the term "pirate" while at it | Nov 14 09:55 |
| Ariadne | you are somewhat of a fanatic | Nov 14 09:55 |
| schestowitz | to describe people who simply reject things with drm | Nov 14 09:55 |
| Ariadne | which, is fine, we need fanatics in this world to advocate for the moral good | Nov 14 09:56 |
| Ariadne | we also need people that are realistic | Nov 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | that's a loaded label | Nov 14 09:56 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: How much DRM have you reverse engineered and published | Nov 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | realism in free s/w is a thing | Nov 14 09:56 |
| mjg59 | Because I suspect it's less than me | Nov 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | we published a video of rms w days ago | Nov 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | where he speaks of 'free s/w realism" | Nov 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | and his OSI people "treated me like shit" | Nov 14 09:56 |
| schestowitz | they don't want pragmatism | Nov 14 09:57 |
| mjg59 | I have been threatened with lawsuits because I wrote free software that replaced proprietary code | Nov 14 09:57 |
| schestowitz | they crush his movement | Nov 14 09:57 |
| mjg59 | And which gave users control of their hardware | Nov 14 09:57 |
| schestowitz | and justify that retroactively | Nov 14 09:57 |
| schestowitz | lines like "that's what people want;" | Nov 14 09:57 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: that's the cost of doing the RightThing | Nov 14 09:57 |
| mjg59 | Yeah. That's why I do it. | Nov 14 09:57 |
| schestowitz | you didn't do anything more immoral than what they disd | Nov 14 09:57 |
| mjg59 | And continue to do it. | Nov 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | *did | Nov 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | and likely they lost the battle | Nov 14 09:58 |
| mjg59 | And you continue to criticise me | Nov 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | so carry ob | Nov 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | *on | Nov 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | don't throw labels like "rape" at people whom you just don't agree with | Nov 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | I never in my life even tried any illegal drug | Nov 14 09:58 |
| mjg59 | I, uh, didn't? | Nov 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | and here you are associating me with a serious crime | Nov 14 09:58 |
| schestowitz | in shittweets | Nov 14 09:58 |
| mjg59 | Provide the quote | Nov 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | see your tweet | Nov 14 09:59 |
| mjg59 | Provide the quote | Nov 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | it's not fair to me | Nov 14 09:59 |
| mjg59 | Provide the quote | Nov 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | you could apologise, but won't | Nov 14 09:59 |
| mjg59 | Provide the quote | Nov 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | not that apologies matter much | Nov 14 09:59 |
| mjg59 | Provide the quote | Nov 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | damage was done | Nov 14 09:59 |
| mjg59 | Provide the quote | Nov 14 09:59 |
| mjg59 | You're paraphrasing me | Nov 14 09:59 |
| schestowitz | you insinuated that techrights does not stand for good because "rape" something... | Nov 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | that's cheap and debated innuendo | Nov 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | *debased | Nov 14 10:00 |
| mjg59 | Provide the quote | Nov 14 10:00 |
| schestowitz | i don't access twitter, sorry | Nov 14 10:00 |
| mjg59 | "Insinuated" is how you interpret it | Nov 14 10:00 |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 10:00 | |
| schestowitz | but I saw a tweet like that | Nov 14 10:00 |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 10:00 | |
| vZS1 | The entire backbone of the internet TCP and all that was built on BSD software | Nov 14 10:00 |
| mjg59 | You literally spend hours arguing about how I was talking about my interpretation of your writing rather than what you meant | Nov 14 10:01 |
| mjg59 | If you're going to accuse me of something, show the actual text | Nov 14 10:01 |
| vZS1 | You need to study history of you think decentralisation is fanaticism | Nov 14 10:02 |
| vZS1 | if* | Nov 14 10:02 |
| Ariadne | i dont think decentralisation is fanaticism | Nov 14 10:02 |
| Ariadne | i think telling people they are dumb because they want to use netflix | Nov 14 10:02 |
| schestowitz | ok , good... | Nov 14 10:02 |
| Ariadne | is fanaticism | Nov 14 10:02 |
| schestowitz | to the fornmer | Nov 14 10:02 |
| schestowitz | good to "i dont think decentralisation is fanaticism" | Nov 14 10:02 |
| Ariadne | i literally worked for 3 years to build a federated social network | Nov 14 10:02 |
| schestowitz | do you think telling people not to hand over their code to Microsoft is "fanaticism"? | Nov 14 10:02 |
| schestowitz | Or, put another way | Nov 14 10:02 |
| schestowitz | what do you consider makes me "fanatic" | Nov 14 10:03 |
| schestowitz | give examples | Nov 14 10:03 |
| schestowitz | my language? | Nov 14 10:03 |
| schestowitz | my stance on not using software that bad things? | Nov 14 10:03 |
| Ariadne | i just gave one: you consider end user wanting to use DRM-controlled services an invalid usecase | Nov 14 10:03 |
| vZS1 | Calling Roy a fanatic is just an ad-hominem attack | Nov 14 10:03 |
| schestowitz | no, | Nov 14 10:03 |
| mjg59 | "a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause." | Nov 14 10:03 |
| schestowitz | I said, gnu/linux doesn't need drm | Nov 14 10:03 |
| schestowitz | because it would be counter-productive both to its goal and many people's interests | Nov 14 10:04 |
| schestowitz | not fanatic to say software patent monopolies are harmful either | Nov 14 10:04 |
| Ariadne | if it is hidden behind a config option, why do you care? | Nov 14 10:04 |
| schestowitz | it's an objective statement, as any coder would tell you | Nov 14 10:04 |
| schestowitz | re drm, guess what | Nov 14 10:04 |
| mjg59 | Look to be clear there are many causes in which I can legitimately be described as a fanatic | Nov 14 10:04 |
| Ariadne | just build your kernel with CONFIG_HDCP=n | Nov 14 10:04 |
| schestowitz | most people agree with me | Nov 14 10:04 |
| Ariadne | done and done | Nov 14 10:04 |
| schestowitz | and that makes me anything but fanatic | Nov 14 10:04 |
| schestowitz | people dislike drm | Nov 14 10:04 |
| schestowitz | those who don't, simply don't know what it means | Nov 14 10:04 |
| schestowitz | and that ignorance if being deliberately perpetuated | Nov 14 10:05 |
| Ariadne | ok, do you think a ubuntu linux user wanting to access their netflix content is an invalid usecase | Nov 14 10:05 |
| Ariadne | yes or no | Nov 14 10:05 |
| schestowitz | like apple with its latest "iphone is privacy" billboards all across the UK | Nov 14 10:05 |
| mjg59 | They're not wrong, sadly | Nov 14 10:05 |
| vZS1 | > ok, do you think a ubuntu linux user wanting to access their netflix content is an invalid usecase | Nov 14 10:05 |
| mjg59 | Because we failed to provide a compelling alternative | Nov 14 10:05 |
| vZS1 | I think what's being offered by TR is education about why DRM is baf | Nov 14 10:06 |
| vZS1 | bad | Nov 14 10:06 |
| Ariadne | yes, that's fine | Nov 14 10:06 |
| vZS1 | TR isn't forcing things upon people | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | nope | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | how so? | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | forcing? | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | we're a site | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | with database | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | text | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | webserver software | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | we impose/force nothibng | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | we just talk LOKL | Nov 14 10:06 |
| vZS1 | Exactly | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | if we convince peoplem good | Nov 14 10:06 |
| schestowitz | , good | Nov 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | is not, we'll try harder | Nov 14 10:07 |
| Ariadne | ok, great anyway | Nov 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | with words | Nov 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | not fanaticism at the least | Nov 14 10:07 |
| Ariadne | do you think a ubuntu linux user wanting to access their netflix content is an invalid usecase | Nov 14 10:07 |
| mjg59 | I'm someone who thinks DRM is bad and I read TR and I don't read things that give me arguments I can use with other people | Nov 14 10:07 |
| vZS1 | So calling people here fanatics only makes you look bad | Nov 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | BTW, we barely write about drm | Nov 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | check our DRM category | Nov 14 10:07 |
| mjg59 | vZS1: I thought you'd ignored me already | Nov 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | the DRM fight is a hard one | Nov 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | we focus on things like decentealisation and patents | Nov 14 10:07 |
| schestowitz | legal instruments of knowledge sharing | Nov 14 10:08 |
| Ariadne | again: do you think a ubuntu linux user wanting to access their netflix content is an invalid usecase | Nov 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | and impediment thereof | Nov 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | invalid is an odd term | Nov 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | I just say, Linux sucks if it allowed lots of DRM in | Nov 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | but then again, we know what Linux is | Nov 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | and who Linus is | Nov 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | he never cares about freedom | Nov 14 10:08 |
| schestowitz | LF is controlling him | Nov 14 10:09 |
| schestowitz | and LF is a front group for IBM, Intel, Microsoft... | Nov 14 10:09 |
| Ariadne | anyway, the point is | Nov 14 10:09 |
| schestowitz | which is all we need to know really | Nov 14 10:09 |
| mjg59 | The fact that Linux is GPLed means it embodies no DRM | Nov 14 10:09 |
| Ariadne | enabling gnu/linux users to use widevine (which for anything other than pure-software implementation needs kernel support) is similar to giving a heroin user methodone | Nov 14 10:09 |
| Ariadne | the goal should be to allow the user to use what they already know | Nov 14 10:10 |
| Ariadne | while presenting compelling alternatives | Nov 14 10:10 |
| Ariadne | to thus, get them off the "heroin" | Nov 14 10:10 |
| schestowitz | that's bayr and switch | Nov 14 10:10 |
| schestowitz | *(bait | Nov 14 10:10 |
| schestowitz | on two levels | Nov 14 10:10 |
| Ariadne | no, it is not | Nov 14 10:10 |
| schestowitz | the straw man level | Nov 14 10:11 |
| schestowitz | and the idea of "lesser evil" | Nov 14 10:11 |
| mjg59 | Everything that's necessary to implement Widevine L3 is now public knowledge | Nov 14 10:11 |
| schestowitz | like methBiden and CrackDonaland | Nov 14 10:11 |
| Ariadne | it is "enable user to use the service they like" and "educate user about freedom-respecting alternatives" | Nov 14 10:11 |
| Ariadne | you do the former to bring them into the flock to do the latter | Nov 14 10:12 |
| schestowitz | does not always work like that | Nov 14 10:12 |
| Ariadne | because even if they continue to use non-free software and services on gnu/linux | Nov 14 10:12 |
| schestowitz | you get a flock me meth eddicts | Nov 14 10:12 |
| Ariadne | they have some level of enhanced freedom | Nov 14 10:12 |
| schestowitz | and then try to tame a bunch of human zombies | Nov 14 10:12 |
| schestowitz | rather than deal with a sane community of eager reformists | Nov 14 10:12 |
| schestowitz | I use a blob for my wifi | Nov 14 10:13 |
| Ariadne | i do not use a blob for my wifi | Nov 14 10:13 |
| schestowitz | I'm not all against compromise | Nov 14 10:13 |
| schestowitz | I need this blog to do my activism | Nov 14 10:13 |
| schestowitz | not to watch some shitty "flick" | Nov 14 10:13 |
| mjg59 | Why don't you just write a Widevine L3 implementation for Chromium | Nov 14 10:13 |
| Ariadne | and alpine is incapable of using widevine anyway | Nov 14 10:13 |
| Ariadne | mjg59: i should ^_^ | Nov 14 10:13 |
| vZS1 | You should realise that DRM is snake oil | Nov 14 10:13 |
| Ariadne | i do realise that | Nov 14 10:13 |
| mjg59 | vZS1: I spend about 50% of my working life reversing shit I am extremely aware | Nov 14 10:14 |
| vZS1 | Plenty of people already do and torrent instead | Nov 14 10:14 |
| Ariadne | my goal is not to advance DRM, but to enable normal people to leverage software freedom, at their own pace, on their own terms | Nov 14 10:14 |
| Ariadne | great | Nov 14 10:15 |
| vZS1 | Torrent streaming is also a thing | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | for | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | them | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | so, that is my point | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | you let them have their netflix | Nov 14 10:15 |
| mjg59 | Torrent streaming is also a thing that people get arrested for | Nov 14 10:15 |
| vZS1 | What you fail to realise is P2P technology is advancing rapidly | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | while educating them about popcorn time | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | or whatever | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | this is not hard | Nov 14 10:15 |
| vZS1 | So there will be P2P DRM free content soon enough | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | great | Nov 14 10:15 |
| mjg59 | I am not going to advocate for the anarchists that I hang out with to increase their legal risk | Nov 14 10:15 |
| vZS1 | Streamed | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | hope its better than apple TV+ | Nov 14 10:15 |
| Ariadne | (that is an exceptionally low bar, really) | Nov 14 10:16 |
| mjg59 | I spend enough time with lawyers | Nov 14 10:16 |
| vZS1 | Your world view is extremely limited if your think most people on the planet use these services with DRM | Nov 14 10:16 |
| schestowitz | you can afford them, mjg59 | Nov 14 10:16 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: US | Nov 14 10:16 |
| mjg59 | It's true, I can! | Nov 14 10:16 |
| mjg59 | I'd rather spend that money on other people | Nov 14 10:16 |
| schestowitz | is netflix even running in more than like 70 countries? | Nov 14 10:17 |
| mjg59 | I get free legal representation | Nov 14 10:17 |
| mjg59 | It's just not a good use of anyone's time | Nov 14 10:17 |
| schestowitz | true | Nov 14 10:17 |
| schestowitz | I got pro bono also at times | Nov 14 10:17 |
| Ariadne | vZS1: i don't | Nov 14 10:17 |
| mjg59 | If I tell people to torrent stuff, they aren't going to get free lawyers | Nov 14 10:18 |
| mjg59 | So it's not an alternative to proprietary solutions | Nov 14 10:18 |
| vZS1 | And a lot of people who use GNU/Linux probably already torrent | Nov 14 10:18 |
| Ariadne | great, good for them | Nov 14 10:18 |
| Ariadne | most normal people in the US and Europe do not | Nov 14 10:19 |
| mjg59 | $10 a month over 20 years is cheaper than a lawsuit | Nov 14 10:19 |
| Ariadne | some, perhaps have a "hook up" | Nov 14 10:19 |
| schestowitz | when you live in a country like gabon you don't care for drm and still have a PC | Nov 14 10:19 |
| Ariadne | but americans, especially, are lazy | Nov 14 10:19 |
| Ariadne | they rather throw $10 at the problem | Nov 14 10:19 |
| mjg59 | Last lawsuit I was involved with ended up costing ~$100,000 | Nov 14 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: and in heavy debnt | Nov 14 10:19 |
| schestowitz | debt | Nov 14 10:19 |
| vZS1 | You can think that if you want. You don't need me to prove you wrong. The traffic and data will speak for itself. So I'll leave it there | Nov 14 10:20 |
| Ariadne | the traffic does speak for itself | Nov 14 10:20 |
| schestowitz | localised | Nov 14 10:20 |
| mjg59 | vZS1: When you just say things without indicating who you're responding to it doesn't end up being super useful | Nov 14 10:20 |
| schestowitz | drm in US | Nov 14 10:20 |
| schestowitz | in other countries, not so much... | Nov 14 10:20 |
| Ariadne | netflix is in the top 10 content ASNs for US and Europe | Nov 14 10:20 |
| Ariadne | by traffic | Nov 14 10:20 |
| schestowitz | because it's bloated | Nov 14 10:20 |
| schestowitz | high frame rate/res | Nov 14 10:21 |
| vZS1 | You lack education in basic statistics. | Nov 14 10:21 |
| mjg59 | DMCA 1203 is part of WIPO treaties, and is also embodied in EU law | Nov 14 10:21 |
| schestowitz | one person can do 10x what others do, and get far less | Nov 14 10:21 |
| Ariadne | actually the average netflix stream is maybe 1.5mbps | Nov 14 10:21 |
| mjg59 | vZS1: I have a PhD that includes stats, thanks | Nov 14 10:21 |
| schestowitz | WIPO is corrupt | Nov 14 10:21 |
| vZS1 | I suggest a good book to teach you how to pick a representative sample population | Nov 14 10:21 |
| mjg59 | No shit WIPO is fucked | Nov 14 10:21 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/WIPO | Nov 14 10:21 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | WIPO - Techrights | Nov 14 10:21 | |
| schestowitz | WIPO needs accountability | Nov 14 10:21 |
| mjg59 | But it's not a US-specific issue | Nov 14 10:21 |
| schestowitz | for sexual abuse and worse crimes | Nov 14 10:21 |
| schestowitz | WIPO is like a front group | Nov 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | and a shame for the UN | Nov 14 10:22 |
| mjg59 | Yeah thanks look I know | Nov 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | like WTO | Nov 14 10:22 |
| mjg59 | Stop | Nov 14 10:22 |
| mjg59 | I agree | Nov 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | UN should disband this liability | Nov 14 10:22 |
| mjg59 | You're right | Nov 14 10:22 |
| mjg59 | Stop talking | Nov 14 10:22 |
| mjg59 | My point is that it's not a US issue | Nov 14 10:22 |
| Ariadne | vZS1: i don't need to pick a 'sample population', i can literally ask people who run the actual eyeball networks where their traffic is going | Nov 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | but we need to explain this to the general public | Nov 14 10:22 |
| schestowitz | wipo changed its chief a few months back | Nov 14 10:23 |
| mjg59 | DMCA violations in the US are generally illegal in the EU as well | Nov 14 10:23 |
| vZS1 | I suggest "Statistics Without Tears" by Derek Rowntree. | Nov 14 10:23 |
| schestowitz | trying to do damage control by shuffling seats at the deck | Nov 14 10:23 |
| vZS1 | It seems you also lack education on the scientific method | Nov 14 10:23 |
| Ariadne | comcast, for example does over 300gbps 95th% monthly with netflix | Nov 14 10:23 |
| vZS1 | I don't know any books that can help with that | Nov 14 10:23 |
| mjg59 | vZS1: Again, PhD in genetics | Nov 14 10:23 |
| Ariadne | that's a whole lot of non-usage of netflix | Nov 14 10:24 |
| vZS1 | Wikipedia has a good article on it | Nov 14 10:24 |
| Ariadne | the scientific method has no relevance here, i am asserting that most US broadband traffic is to netflix | Nov 14 10:24 |
| mjg59 | vZS1: What stats qualifications do you have | Nov 14 10:24 |
| vZS1 | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method | Nov 14 10:24 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.m.wikipedia.org | Scientific method - Wikipedia | Nov 14 10:24 | |
| mjg59 | vZS1: How much training in the scientific method do you have | Nov 14 10:24 |
| vZS1 | That is a good starting point | Nov 14 10:25 |
| vZS1 | You can then study the statistics book I mentioned | Nov 14 10:25 |
| Ariadne | that is something that literally anyone who talks to a network engineer at an eyeball network can verify for you in 5 minutes or less | Nov 14 10:25 |
| vZS1 | > that is something that literally anyone who talks to a network engineer at an eyeball network can verify for you in 5 minutes or less | Nov 14 10:25 |
| Ariadne | i also have direct experience with this, doing network ops inside eyeball networks | Nov 14 10:25 |
| vZS1 | With this statement you have just demonstrated that you do not understand the scientific method | Nov 14 10:26 |
| schestowitz | you cannot compare netflix as b/w to other things | Nov 14 10:26 |
| schestowitz | apple/orange | Nov 14 10:26 |
| schestowitz | netflix is bloat | Nov 14 10:26 |
| schestowitz | it chokes up networks | Nov 14 10:26 |
| Ariadne | does not matter | Nov 14 10:26 |
| Ariadne | because | Nov 14 10:26 |
| schestowitz | I doubt they even profit anything/much/might even still lose money | Nov 14 10:26 |
| Ariadne | we have this wonderful tool called IPFIX | Nov 14 10:26 |
| schestowitz | very few people use netflix | Nov 14 10:26 |
| Ariadne | which can tell us at a per-connection level | Nov 14 10:26 |
| schestowitz | maybe 3% of the world | Nov 14 10:26 |
| schestowitz | yet over 60% I reckon use the Internet | Nov 14 10:27 |
| schestowitz | that means that only about 5% of Internet users care for Netflix | Nov 14 10:27 |
| schestowitz | gnu/linux isn't for yuppies | Nov 14 10:27 |
| schestowitz | it can be, but that's not the target audience | Nov 14 10:27 |
| mjg59 | Says who | Nov 14 10:27 |
| schestowitz | nor should it be, unless it is a net positive | Nov 14 10:27 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: say those who care for gnu | Nov 14 10:27 |
| schestowitz | your views may vary | Nov 14 10:27 |
| mjg59 | gnu/linux is for everyone | Nov 14 10:28 |
| schestowitz | when did you first use gnu/linux on your personal computer | Nov 14 10:28 |
| schestowitz | no tricky question | Nov 14 10:28 |
| mjg59 | 1996 | Nov 14 10:28 |
| schestowitz | cool | Nov 14 10:28 |
| Ariadne | 1998 | Nov 14 10:28 |
| schestowitz | so you know it since after linux came | Nov 14 10:28 |
| Ariadne | before that i did not have a 'personal computer' | Nov 14 10:28 |
| schestowitz | I was born a year before gnu | Nov 14 10:28 |
| Ariadne | ok boomer | Nov 14 10:28 |
| mjg59 | And I'm now running it on a system where I ported free-software firmware to the board | Nov 14 10:28 |
| mjg59 | If you're going to criticise my commitment then honestly please feel free to step | Nov 14 10:29 |
| schestowitz | [10:28] <mjg59> gnu/linux is for everyone | Nov 14 10:29 |
| vZS1 | schestowitz: I suggest you get back to work on your articles. | Nov 14 10:29 |
| schestowitz | unlike drm | Nov 14 10:29 |
| schestowitz | drm is for monopolists | Nov 14 10:29 |
| schestowitz | who conrol users remotely | Nov 14 10:29 |
| vZS1 | I am going back to work | Nov 14 10:29 |
| schestowitz | it's a subjugation | Nov 14 10:29 |
| Ariadne | yes, we agree | Nov 14 10:29 |
| mjg59 | 10:07 < mjg59> I'm someone who thinks DRM is bad and I read TR and I don't read things that give me arguments I can use with | Nov 14 10:30 |
| mjg59 | other people | Nov 14 10:30 |
| schestowitz | yes, let's wrap this up | Nov 14 10:30 |
| Ariadne | but some people would rather be subjugated | Nov 14 10:30 |
| Ariadne | you have to start somewhere | Nov 14 10:30 |
| mjg59 | You do not need to tell me that DRM is bad | Nov 14 10:30 |
| vZS1 | We can't argue with people without a basic education in the scientific method and statistics | Nov 14 10:30 |
| mjg59 | The first patch I ever submitted to a free software project was to libdvdcss | Nov 14 10:30 |
| schestowitz | ok, later folks... | Nov 14 10:30 |
| schestowitz | we have a massive guest post coming | Nov 14 10:30 |
| schestowitz | 26k of text | Nov 14 10:30 |
| vZS1 | schestowitz: I look forward to it! | Nov 14 10:30 |
| schestowitz | after that epo leaks | Nov 14 10:31 |
| mjg59 | vZS1: I'm sorry was the bit about me having a PhD in a scientific field not clear | Nov 14 10:31 |
| vZS1 | Signing off ---- | Nov 14 10:31 |
| Ariadne | lol | Nov 14 10:31 |
| Ariadne | same tbh | Nov 14 10:32 |
| Ariadne | i guess i need to learn more about the scientific method ! | Nov 14 10:32 |
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| schestowitz | article's title will be "The Surest Path to Freedom is Removing Your Software" | Nov 14 10:35 |
| Ariadne | yeah its good advice | Nov 14 10:35 |
| schestowitz | not mine | Nov 14 10:35 |
| schestowitz | but it's a provocative title | Nov 14 10:35 |
| Ariadne | if you remove your software, and then remove your computer by tossing it out the window, and then raise goats in wyoming for a living, you will have true freedom | Nov 14 10:35 |
| Ariadne | it was nice while it lasted anyway | Nov 14 10:36 |
| mjg59 | Yeet computers, buy goats | Nov 14 10:36 |
| Ariadne | goats are very free | Nov 14 10:36 |
| Ariadne | they do what they want, when they want, and take shit from nobody | Nov 14 10:36 |
| Ariadne | or, put differently | Nov 14 10:37 |
| Ariadne | don't need to worry about software freedom if you possess nothing that can run software | Nov 14 10:37 |
| mjg59 | Can't be tracked if I have no tech | Nov 14 10:37 |
| oiaohm | That a myth that you cannot be tracked if you have no tech. | Nov 14 10:38 |
| Ariadne | yeah thats true | Nov 14 10:38 |
| mjg59 | No cameras in Wyoming | Nov 14 10:38 |
| Ariadne | the governments have pretty powerful spy satellites now days | Nov 14 10:38 |
| oiaohm | Face tracking in china cities good example you don't need tech on you. | Nov 14 10:39 |
| schestowitz | wait, the article is not out yet | Nov 14 10:39 |
| schestowitz | you don't even know the argumentation yet | Nov 14 10:39 |
| schestowitz | nor do I, I'm reading it through now | Nov 14 10:39 |
| oiaohm | High res sat photos these days 1 pixel is less than 30cm square on the ground. | Nov 14 10:39 |
| schestowitz | Later today "Inside the EPO During Corona" series resumes | Nov 14 10:40 |
| oiaohm | In lighting populated areas that enough detail to fairly well track people./ | Nov 14 10:40 |
| Ariadne | honestly my work in tech has convinced me that i really should at some point go join an amish commune | Nov 14 10:40 |
| schestowitz | you can mix | Nov 14 10:40 |
| schestowitz | like, leave the phone at home | Nov 14 10:40 |
| schestowitz | go to nature | Nov 14 10:40 |
| schestowitz | like Arjan did... then he vanished | Nov 14 10:40 |
| Ariadne | that is a horrible idea in wyoming :D | Nov 14 10:40 |
| schestowitz | and his laptop found nearby with a phone | Nov 14 10:40 |
| Ariadne | it is so easy to get lost in the forests where i live | Nov 14 10:41 |
| oiaohm | Really idea of going amish or the like is getting less and less of a valid option. | Nov 14 10:41 |
| oiaohm | as the technology to track gets better. | Nov 14 10:41 |
| Ariadne | several times a year people have to call for a rescue | Nov 14 10:41 |
| schestowitz | they could find mushrooms and water in the meantime, no? | Nov 14 10:41 |
| Ariadne | yeah, but we have grizzly bears and moose and shit | Nov 14 10:42 |
| schestowitz | phoning the state won't save you from being mauled by a bear | Nov 14 10:42 |
| oiaohm | Lot of cases people eating mushrooms in forests eat the ones that kill them. | Nov 14 10:42 |
| Ariadne | that too | Nov 14 10:42 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: you beat me to it | Nov 14 10:42 |
| schestowitz | response time too high for really fatal incidents | Nov 14 10:42 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: you never know till ya try ;) | Nov 14 10:43 |
| schestowitz | not eat em shrooms | Nov 14 10:43 |
| schestowitz | *now | Nov 14 10:43 |
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| Ariadne | trust me you don't want to dose yourself with random stuff you found in the forest | Nov 14 10:43 |
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| Ariadne | that's a path to a bad time | Nov 14 10:43 |
| schestowitz | better chance than starving oneself | Nov 14 10:44 |
| schestowitz | or dehydration | Nov 14 10:44 |
| schestowitz | the body can eat its fats and muscles anyway | Nov 14 10:44 |
| schestowitz | water is the key part | Nov 14 10:44 |
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| oiaohm | There are a lot of different greens and bark in forest that you can eat to extend life. Most with a low risk of killing self. | Nov 14 10:45 |
| Ariadne | oiaohm: anyway, the reason for joining an amish commune isn't to avoid tracking by State actors | Nov 14 10:45 |
| Ariadne | it is because, literally, technology made since 1850s has been a net negative for mankind really | Nov 14 10:46 |
| Ariadne | industrial revolution? bad | Nov 14 10:46 |
| Ariadne | cars? bad | Nov 14 10:46 |
| Ariadne | computers? bad | Nov 14 10:46 |
| Ariadne | amazon ring collaboration with cops? really bad | Nov 14 10:46 |
| schestowitz | except for those who make them | Nov 14 10:46 |
| schestowitz | those who help the oppressing are compensated | Nov 14 10:47 |
| schestowitz | we know who by | Nov 14 10:47 |
| Ariadne | free software is most widely deployed in service to the oppressor, incidentally | Nov 14 10:47 |
| schestowitz | not by intention | Nov 14 10:47 |
| schestowitz | this is why we need to set things right | Nov 14 10:47 |
| oiaohm | Ariadne: problem is parties like the amish are also on the list to be tracked by state actors as well. | Nov 14 10:47 |
| Ariadne | no, it is just the way the grand experiment has played out | Nov 14 10:47 |
| schestowitz | because of capital | Nov 14 10:47 |
| schestowitz | there's more money in oppression | Nov 14 10:47 |
| schestowitz | in war, in social control | Nov 14 10:48 |
| schestowitz | DRM | Nov 14 10:48 |
| schestowitz | M1 | Nov 14 10:48 |
| schestowitz | GitHub imprisonment | Nov 14 10:48 |
| Ariadne | oiaohm: i literally have been at the head of the alpine project. the feds are likely tracking me already. i don't care | Nov 14 10:48 |
| oiaohm | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agaricus_bisporus << mushrooms every eatable one there are look like ones that if you are not careful you are screwed. | Nov 14 10:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Agaricus bisporus - Wikipedia | Nov 14 10:48 | |
| schestowitz | farming people's labour time | Nov 14 10:48 |
| schestowitz | for monopoly | Nov 14 10:48 |
| schestowitz | centralisation for intelligence and censorship | Nov 14 10:48 |
| Ariadne | yes | Nov 14 10:48 |
| schestowitz | that's where the money is | Nov 14 10:48 |
| Ariadne | and my original point is, sometimes you need flexibility to start to detangle things | Nov 14 10:48 |
| schestowitz | that's what also subsidised "big tech" in the US | Nov 14 10:49 |
| schestowitz | 1.1 trillion dollars a year for "defense" budget | Nov 14 10:49 |
| schestowitz | protecting the empire and its corporate actors | Nov 14 10:49 |
| schestowitz | 27 dollars national debt | Nov 14 10:49 |
| schestowitz | trillion | Nov 14 10:49 |
| schestowitz | 27x1000000000000 | Nov 14 10:49 |
| schestowitz | so no wonder US has many billionaires | Nov 14 10:50 |
| schestowitz | we can even see where their money comes from LOL | Nov 14 10:50 |
| schestowitz | graft | Nov 14 10:50 |
| Ariadne | for example | Nov 14 10:51 |
| Ariadne | you think it is bad that ubuntu integrates widevine | Nov 14 10:51 |
| Ariadne | because DRM bad | Nov 14 10:51 |
| schestowitz | I didn't even talk about that | Nov 14 10:51 |
| Ariadne | but the fact that they do has enabled more users to switch to gnu/linux and gain freedom at large | Nov 14 10:51 |
| Ariadne | which was the entirety of my point really | Nov 14 10:52 |
| schestowitz | "there's more of us than them" | Nov 14 10:52 |
| schestowitz | we can defeat drm in the long run | Nov 14 10:52 |
| schestowitz | many times we already did | Nov 14 10:53 |
| Ariadne | yes | Nov 14 10:53 |
| schestowitz | that's why many drm schemes crumble | Nov 14 10:53 |
| schestowitz | not because many adopt them | Nov 14 10:53 |
| Ariadne | but in short term, there is value in allowing users to make the choice to opt into using DRM services | Nov 14 10:53 |
| schestowitz | but because many get 'burned' | Nov 14 10:53 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: some said the same about 'secure boot' | Nov 14 10:53 |
| schestowitz | some dude called mjg59 | Nov 14 10:53 |
| schestowitz | and some said the same about ooxml | Nov 14 10:54 |
| schestowitz | and now we have people sending around those awful files | Nov 14 10:54 |
| schestowitz | or lots of google 'services' | Nov 14 10:54 |
| Ariadne | when properly configured with user-controlled trust anchors, secure boot is a net positive for a linux user | Nov 14 10:54 |
| Ariadne | note i say user-controlled trust anchors there | Nov 14 10:55 |
| Ariadne | microsoft as trust anchor is worthless | Nov 14 10:55 |
| schestowitz | that's what we have now | Nov 14 10:56 |
| Ariadne | that's not what i have | Nov 14 10:56 |
| schestowitz | But Microsoft is GoodCompany(TM) now and NotAMonopoly(R) | Nov 14 10:57 |
| schestowitz | so it's OK | Nov 14 10:57 |
| schestowitz | Thank you, Microsoft | Nov 14 10:57 |
| Ariadne | my system has coreboot, built by me, signed by me, which boots into grub payload, built by alpine, signed by me | Nov 14 10:57 |
| oiaohm | Ariadne: it is what we have now mostly. The default CA that Linux bootloaders to work on modern PC secureboot is a Microsoft CA. | Nov 14 10:57 |
| Ariadne | which boots into linux kernel, built by alpine, signed by me | Nov 14 10:57 |
| Ariadne | oiaohm: yes, i know | Nov 14 10:57 |
| schestowitz | you sign your own boot | Nov 14 10:57 |
| Ariadne | my point here is that educating users to install their own trust anchors is important | Nov 14 10:57 |
| schestowitz | how useful | Nov 14 10:57 |
| schestowitz | "I trust myself" | Nov 14 10:57 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Nov 14 10:57 |
| Ariadne | it is extremely useful, actually | Nov 14 10:58 |
| Ariadne | because if TSA fucks with my computer | Nov 14 10:58 |
| Ariadne | i will know | Nov 14 10:58 |
| schestowitz | don't bring a laptop through airports | Nov 14 10:58 |
| schestowitz | you're a geek | Nov 14 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Maybe you will know. | Nov 14 10:58 |
| Ariadne | since the signing key is sorted on my yubikey | Nov 14 10:58 |
| Ariadne | stored, even | Nov 14 10:58 |
| schestowitz | TSA is a bunch of sick perverts | Nov 14 10:58 |
| schestowitz | the typos who always vote Trump | Nov 14 10:58 |
| schestowitz | *types | Nov 14 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Setting up your own signing in your system does not mean you system cannot be messed with. | Nov 14 10:58 |
| Ariadne | oiaohm: theres multiple layers | Nov 14 10:59 |
| schestowitz | yubikey= proprietary | Nov 14 10:59 |
| oiaohm | Fun has been the example of infect harddrive firmware. | Nov 14 10:59 |
| Ariadne | i do not have a harddrive | Nov 14 10:59 |
| oiaohm | SSD firmware? | Nov 14 10:59 |
| Ariadne | i do not have SSD | Nov 14 10:59 |
| oiaohm | USB keyboard firmware. | Nov 14 11:00 |
| Ariadne | or at least, SSD in traditional sense | Nov 14 11:00 |
| oiaohm | These are all different infection vectors found in usage. | Nov 14 11:00 |
| Ariadne | NVMe is quite a different creature | Nov 14 11:00 |
| oiaohm | Yes and spy agency already have firmware infects for them. | Nov 14 11:00 |
| Ariadne | oiaohm: yes, they can mess with some firmware that i do not control | Nov 14 11:01 |
| oiaohm | in a normal computer there is quite a bit of that. | Nov 14 11:01 |
| Ariadne | however, secure boot helps to catch a lot of fuckery from less sophisticated threats | Nov 14 11:01 |
| Ariadne | if an APT is after you | Nov 14 11:01 |
| Ariadne | you're boned | Nov 14 11:01 |
| Ariadne | just giv eup now | Nov 14 11:01 |
| oiaohm | We don't have systems we can properly validate in most cases. | Nov 14 11:01 |
| Ariadne | btw in last business i was running, we suspect we were targeted by an APT | Nov 14 11:02 |
| Ariadne | because the cofounder ordered a machine from lenovo | Nov 14 11:02 |
| Ariadne | and it got redirected to virginia for several weeks | Nov 14 11:02 |
| Ariadne | and then showed up | Nov 14 11:02 |
| Ariadne | we uhh, donated that machine to charity :P | Nov 14 11:02 |
| Ariadne | thanks, but no thanks, on that one | Nov 14 11:03 |
| oiaohm | So normal usa spying incompetence. | Nov 14 11:03 |
| Ariadne | we had a lot of VIP clients who we managed infrastructure for | Nov 14 11:04 |
| schestowitz | [11:00] <oiaohm> Yes and spy agency already have firmware infects for them. | Nov 14 11:04 |
| Ariadne | so it would make sense to target us for an implant like that | Nov 14 11:04 |
| schestowitz | yup, we have proof | Nov 14 11:04 |
| Ariadne | it was funny | Nov 14 11:04 |
| schestowitz | best approach is, don't pass any devices with useful data on it via checkpoints | Nov 14 11:04 |
| Ariadne | the redirection literally showed up on UPS tracking | Nov 14 11:04 |
| schestowitz | you can fetch what you need from the other side over ssh channels | Nov 14 11:04 |
| Ariadne | yes, that is what i do | Nov 14 11:05 |
| schestowitz | assuming openssh itself hasn't been silently rendered "Fake" | Nov 14 11:05 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: :-) | Nov 14 11:05 |
| schestowitz | we think alike then | Nov 14 11:05 |
| Ariadne | oiaohm: anyway, i hope in future we will be able to validate even stuff like the USB keyboard and storage firmwares | Nov 14 11:05 |
| schestowitz | may main laptop never left the room, let alone the house | Nov 14 11:05 |
| Ariadne | but it will take a long time | Nov 14 11:06 |
| Ariadne | before we get to that point ;/ | Nov 14 11:06 |
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| Ariadne | hmm, 'wideopenvine' | Nov 14 11:11 |
| Ariadne | :D | Nov 14 11:11 |
| schestowitz | cheekvine | Nov 14 11:14 |
| schestowitz | tbh, I don't know much about that form of DRM | Nov 14 11:15 |
| schestowitz | and almost never ever commented on it | Nov 14 11:15 |
| schestowitz | to avoid saying something inaccurate | Nov 14 11:15 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m] brings that up a lot | Nov 14 11:15 |
| schestowitz | and links to bugzilla pages about it | Nov 14 11:15 |
| Ariadne | its bog standard "retrieve encrypted AES key inside RSA message" DRM basically | Nov 14 11:15 |
| schestowitz | " | Nov 14 11:16 |
| schestowitz | <p class="dropcap-first"><a name="top">T</a>he Free Software movement has failed. Its goal was not just to create software, which is a necessary step -- but to give the user control of their own computing.</p> | Nov 14 11:16 |
| schestowitz | But users don't control their computing, organisations do -- if those organisations were DOING THEIR JOB, that would help. But then those organisations get bribed by the same companies who controlled your computing before. And then those organisations stop fighting for your freedom, paying it lip service only. | Nov 14 11:16 |
| schestowitz | " | Nov 14 11:16 |
| schestowitz | "The FSF becomes FSFtv, and it just makes commercials for the freedom you used to have. They don't fight at all, in fact they bend over for monopolies on your behalf. Couldn't you do that well enough without paying for the privilege? Okay, if you need the tax write-off I understand -- but wouldn't the SPCA do just as well?" | Nov 14 11:17 |
| schestowitz | I like it so far | Nov 14 11:17 |
| schestowitz | "Most of these organisations are stabbing users and developers in the back though. Debian tortures developers and treats them like Amazon warehouse workers. KDE silences developers not unlike the Linux Foundation. The Linux Foundation stole the kernel, and is now putting all kinds of horrors into it. " | Nov 14 11:18 |
| Ariadne | ok this is a pocock article isn't it | Nov 14 11:18 |
| schestowitz | "The FSF allows coups and censorship against itself, its founder and even its supporters. SFC has betrayed everyone. The GNU Project is partnering piece-by-piece with Microsoft, and already relies on it heavily for more than it admits or cares about." | Nov 14 11:19 |
| schestowitz | nope | Nov 14 11:19 |
| schestowitz | not pocock | Nov 14 11:19 |
| schestowitz | pocock is busy on edX | Nov 14 11:19 |
| schestowitz | getting certified and stuff | Nov 14 11:19 |
| schestowitz | he's improving his skillset | Nov 14 11:19 |
| schestowitz | "Super-arrogant (or possibly even narcissistic or sociopathic) developers like Lennart Poettering (just one major example) don't care about your freedom, or you having control over your computer. They do everything based on the idea of making people use their software." | Nov 14 11:20 |
| schestowitz | "They aren't alone. GNOME, which has spent years attacking Free Software on several levels (and both historically and recently) has taken over various components that used to be independent and added others, not unlike systemd did. Some projects give you choices, other projects really try to corral users. " | Nov 14 11:21 |
| schestowitz | I really like it so far | Nov 14 11:22 |
| schestowitz | because it's all true | Nov 14 11:22 |
| schestowitz | if not a tad crude | Nov 14 11:22 |
| schestowitz | "These corporate people take over communities, then control them -- they add policies that give large donors control over the project (rather than even the project founders or original authors) and then they kick out the people who made it what it was. | Nov 14 11:22 |
| schestowitz | "And they aren't even new lies -- the strategy had to be retrofit to communities (this is the what "Open Source" really is) but the lies are just recycled from everything Microsoft used to throw at "Linux" (including calling it Linux, which over time has itself become a backdoor for the takeover of GNU, which GNU actually realised and once protested)." | Nov 14 11:23 |
| schestowitz | "The reason this stuff is so easy to predict, is the tactics only change on the surface. These are old games, takeovers don't really ever change the rules of how takeovers work -- they just tailor them to the latest target. We know what the beginning of a takeover looks like. We know what it looks like in the next stages. We know what the "death" looks like." | Nov 14 11:24 |
| schestowitz | "We smile and clap our hands while someone makes a nifty new graphic that says "there is no Cloud, it's just someone else's computer" -- but Richard Stallman is telling you to get code from Microsoft's computers. Jami and BigBlueButton are both developed on GitHub." | Nov 14 11:25 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: "Remove whatever software you can manage without -- minimalism was a path to emancipation as far back as Thoreau, if not Moses. Thoreau practiced voluntary poverty to avoid paying more money that would go to wars he didn't support." | Nov 14 11:52 |
| schestowitz | boils down to this | Nov 14 11:53 |
| Ariadne | an interesting take | Nov 14 11:53 |
| schestowitz | "You can do similar for your computing. There's a lot less e-waste (and less intrusive, technofascist panopticon corporate fuckery) if you install less of this technofascist, corporate crap software with a "free as in freedom" license for many of the components. Forget the spoonful of sugar, stop eating their shit." | Nov 14 11:53 |
| Ariadne | meanwhile, i'm halfway done with an EME plugin for firefox that, when supplied with the widevine L3 master key, should theoretically implement widevine DRM | Nov 14 11:54 |
| Ariadne | ignoring those pesky restrictions of course | Nov 14 11:57 |
| Ariadne | ;) | Nov 14 11:57 |
| schestowitz | :> | Nov 14 11:58 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Surest Path to Freedom is Removing Your Software โข ๐๐ ด๐ ฒ๐ ท๐๐ ธ๐ ถ๐ ท๐๐ โ http://techrights.org/2020/11/14/removing-monopoly/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/b12bd6a3-901d-4890-9d50-3ab4f54b717c] | Nov 14 12:01 | |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: | Nov 14 12:09 |
| schestowitz | 16:09] <schestowitz> zoobab: how's that "early November" coming along? | Nov 14 12:09 |
| schestowitz | [16:09] <schestowitz> For Team UPC? | Nov 14 12:09 |
| schestowitz | [16:09] <schestowitz> Nov. 15th soon | Nov 14 12:09 |
| schestowitz | [16:09] <schestowitz> we'll have fun writing about that, won't we? | Nov 14 12:09 |
| schestowitz | one more day | Nov 14 12:09 |
| schestowitz | then we can laugh at them | Nov 14 12:09 |
| *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 12:09 | |
| schestowitz | (Team UPC) | Nov 14 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Endless Lies Team | Nov 14 12:09 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Raspberry Pi 4 Review: Is Raspberry Pi 4 Worth Buying? โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144360 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ac9e44a4-3a41-45bb-be1e-2c54882dddb8] | Nov 14 12:18 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 10 Best Raspberry Pi Starter Kits for Beginners โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144361 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4ab32d7c-5c0e-43f6-b2ce-6af557d559c1] | Nov 14 12:20 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144362 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fe0286db-f9be-4ad5-b690-b77cf66ba107] | Nov 14 12:21 | |
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| schestowitz | Chaekyung: hi | Nov 14 12:23 |
| schestowitz | not many updates from your site lately | Nov 14 12:23 |
| schestowitz | all on track still? | Nov 14 12:23 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: KDE Frameworks 5.76 Released with More Improvements for Plasma Desktop and Apps โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144363 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6b0c0753-627b-402c-b8e8-29892b23b16d] | Nov 14 12:24 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #GNUnet 0.14.0 released โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144364 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ecc18a2c-0857-40cd-9c47-4818c7b463b1] | Nov 14 12:30 | |
| schestowitz | xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote on 14/11/2020 09:22: | Nov 14 12:33 |
| schestowitz | > Someone who twists people's words around and misquotes people and | Nov 14 12:33 |
| schestowitz | > invents "facts" doesn't actually have a God-given right to go into IRC | Nov 14 12:33 |
| schestowitz | > channels and interrogate someone over an article. | Nov 14 12:33 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 14 12:33 |
| schestowitz | > They may have a right to go to IRC-- though the IRC ops explicitly | Nov 14 12:33 |
| schestowitz | > dispute this-- they may have a right to ask questions, but half the | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > reason they do so is to say "Ah-ha! Now you don't want to talk to about | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > it-- do you deny it?" | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > Literal cults send people to deal with critics using such tactics. The | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > problem is, if the person doing it has ill intent, no integrity and no | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > authority, there is seriously no reason not to ignore them. Talking to | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > such people is probably more of a liability than talking about them. Of | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > course that's just my opinion, and doesn't constitute legal advice. It's | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > more of a critique of such people. | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | I think that refers to mjg59 | Nov 14 12:34 |
| schestowitz | > Dear Roy, | Nov 14 12:37 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 14 12:37 |
| schestowitz | > first of all, let me express my empathy for the sudden death of your | Nov 14 12:37 |
| schestowitz | > friend. My sincere condolences. | Nov 14 12:37 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 14 12:37 |
| schestowitz | > I just came across an article in Mediapart and it is about the death of | Nov 14 12:37 |
| schestowitz | > an employee at ESA, the European Space Agency located in the | Nov 14 12:37 |
| schestowitz | > Netherlands, just a few kilometers away from the EPO. | Nov 14 12:37 |
| schestowitz | > https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/131120/l-agence-spatiale-europeenne-ne-sera-pas-jugee-pour-le-suicide-d-un-salarie | Nov 14 12:37 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.mediapart.fr | LโAgence spatiale europรฉenne ne sera pas jugรฉe pour le suicide dโun salariรฉ - Page 1 | Mediapart | Nov 14 12:38 | |
| schestowitz | > <https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/131120/l-agence-spatiale-europeenne-ne-sera-pas-jugee-pour-le-suicide-d-un-salarie> | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > The article is beyond a paywall, however the important thing is that the | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > French tribunal acknowledges the total immunity of an international | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > organisation even if it is held responsible for the suicide of an | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > employee. Bad time, bad news, but it might open new perspectives for the | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > defence of the employees: the Far West law. | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > It is a good thing that Mediapart shows a journalistic interest for | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > international organisations. AFAIK, they are preparing a series of | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > articles about the EPO. | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | > All the best | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | This is good news is true (I have no reasons to doubt it). | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | We will be focusing on the corona aspect at the height of this deadly pandemic -- which patents will NOT save us from. Contrary to what the unfit-to-serve EPO management is trying to imply... | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | I guess mediapart will based much of its reporting on techrights articles | Nov 14 12:38 |
| schestowitz | mediapart has millions of readers in france/french | Nov 14 12:38 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: โ #Microsoft HATES users. They love (exploiting) #Linux . They love getting money for #patents on things WE created without them, specifically to get away from them.โ http://techrights.org/2020/11/14/removing-monopoly/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/291fc967-3060-40d5-836b-694b2341b197] | Nov 14 13:05 | |
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| vZS1 | schestowitz: I implemented a rudimentary tracing system with logger for all the automation. I'll let you know how it goes tomorrow. | Nov 14 13:05 |
| vZS1 | To make it easier to debug things | Nov 14 13:05 |
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| schestowitz | vZS1: fantastic. Thanks so much! | Nov 14 13:09 |
| schestowitz | Earlier on I encouraged people to get ipfs software | Nov 14 13:09 |
| schestowitz | [12:41] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (็ฝไผ): A lark whispers in our ears that French media is about to bombard the #epo over #scandalsI guess #mediapart will base much of its reporting on #techrights articles...mediapart has millions of readers in france/french [https://pleroma.site/objects/0fd4f9da-80bc-4860-a2fe-279f6acb9e0a] | Nov 14 13:09 |
| schestowitz | [12:43] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (็ฝไผ): Eager and emboldened as we are by upcoming media upsurge about #epo #corruption we'll carry on objectively assessing internal documents. This weekend we'll drop the mother lode... also in #IPFS (more #censorship -resistant) [https://pleroma.site/objects/a37915cf-4880-44d2-af47-6fb282b0acdb] | Nov 14 13:09 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site | Nov 14 13:09 | |
| schestowitz | [12:44] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (็ฝไผ): #IPFS Desktop https://docs.ipfs.io/install/ipfs-desktop/ help read and distribute #techrights articles further. No single point of failure, #censorship infeasible. http://techrights.org/ipfs/txt/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/6657aeaa-38fb-491d-9c95-f68287dcd71f] | Nov 14 13:09 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site | Nov 14 13:09 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-docs.ipfs.io | IPFS Desktop | IPFS Docs | Nov 14 13:09 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site | Nov 14 13:09 | |
| vZS1 | Good stuff | Nov 14 13:15 |
| vZS1 | And yw (: | Nov 14 13:15 |
| schestowitz | some people installed it for us | Nov 14 13:15 |
| vZS1 | I can't rush cron because it needs to work like it does in production | Nov 14 13:16 |
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| MinceR | (cat) https://ircz.de/p/20082257 | Nov 14 13:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4841708) | Nov 14 13:48 | |
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| schestowitz | Ariadne: https://torrentfreak.com/google-takes-down-repositories-that-circumvent-its-widevine-drm-201113/ | Nov 14 14:15 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Google Takes Down Repositories That Circumvent its Widevine DRM * TorrentFreak | Nov 14 14:15 | |
| schestowitz | did you see this? | Nov 14 14:15 |
| schestowitz | landed in my feeds today | Nov 14 14:15 |
| schestowitz | time to deleteGithub yet? | Nov 14 14:17 |
| MinceR | long past it | Nov 14 14:17 |
| schestowitz | but the CI | Nov 14 14:18 |
| schestowitz | butter pipelines! | Nov 14 14:18 |
| MinceR | lol | Nov 14 14:18 |
| schestowitz | but the shinies!! | Nov 14 14:18 |
| schestowitz | [14:18] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (็ฝไผ): #deletegithub... an ENEMY of #freesw http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143596#comment-27143#microsoft #drm"DRM is the future." Steve Ballmer, Microsoft CEO [https://pleroma.site/objects/983c5fcf-9744-4b10-ac9a-5a0570c4a6e7] | Nov 14 14:19 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Single Points of Failure and Proprietary Entrapment (Microsoft GitHub) | Tux Machines | Nov 14 14:19 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site | Nov 14 14:19 | |
| schestowitz | don't worry, sooner or later people will 'get' that | Nov 14 14:19 |
| schestowitz | GitHub is an attack on us all | Nov 14 14:19 |
| MinceR | gitlab has CI too, not sure about gogs or gitea | Nov 14 14:19 |
| schestowitz | not just devs | Nov 14 14:19 |
| schestowitz | this is a very positive development | Nov 14 14:19 |
| MinceR | and of course CI independent of the repo also exists | Nov 14 14:19 |
| schestowitz | will help wake the F up some devs | Nov 14 14:19 |
| MinceR | i don't think people get anything anymore | Nov 14 14:19 |
| schestowitz | who insist that github is "free" and "just works" | Nov 14 14:19 |
| schestowitz | anyway, me back to my links | Nov 14 14:20 |
| schestowitz | you can see in the -social channel what I say aboyt it | Nov 14 14:20 |
| schestowitz | FSF has said NOTHING | Nov 14 14:20 |
| schestowitz | about youtube-dl | Nov 14 14:20 |
| schestowitz | I mean, two dozen members of stuff and 3 weeks is not enough | Nov 14 14:20 |
| schestowitz | blog posts take a year for the team to prepare | Nov 14 14:20 |
| schestowitz | EFF just blames "RIAA" | Nov 14 14:20 |
| schestowitz | while showing Microsoft with AWARDS | Nov 14 14:21 |
| schestowitz | bloody traitors | Nov 14 14:21 |
| schestowitz | money-gathering parasites some of that lot | Nov 14 14:21 |
| schestowitz | EFF has a pile of 40 million dollars | Nov 14 14:21 |
| schestowitz | and growing | Nov 14 14:21 |
| schestowitz | in savings accounts | Nov 14 14:21 |
| schestowitz | and can't name Microsoft as a threat | Nov 14 14:21 |
| schestowitz | deflection at best | Nov 14 14:21 |
| schestowitz | scum | Nov 14 14:22 |
| MinceR | the FSF is dead | Nov 14 14:22 |
| MinceR | the FSF was filled up with crybullies, RMS gave up, they cancelled him | Nov 14 14:22 |
| schestowitz | RMS did not get the memo | Nov 14 14:22 |
| schestowitz | and he still lets them control/censor him | Nov 14 14:23 |
| schestowitz | he had let the "shit" into his own org | Nov 14 14:23 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2020/11/12/2001-rms-opens-up/ | Nov 14 14:23 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Just-Released Footage of Dr. Richard Stallman (RMS): Open Source People โTreated Me Like Shitโ | Techrights | Nov 14 14:23 | |
| MinceR | https://img.pr0gramm.com/2020/09/19/227ff2cac25f22f4.jpg | Nov 14 14:23 |
| CrystalMath | MinceR: RMS talked at libreplanet | Nov 14 14:26 |
| MinceR | and? | Nov 14 14:26 |
| schestowitz | it was scripted | Nov 14 14:27 |
| schestowitz | and prerecorded it seems | Nov 14 14:27 |
| schestowitz | like he was reading something approved for him | Nov 14 14:27 |
| schestowitz | video here: | Nov 14 14:27 |
| *chris_uk[m] (chrisukmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-vqikycflkdycbzvh) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 14:27 | |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2020/11/05/rms-anniversary-of-the-fsf/ | Nov 14 14:27 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Richard Stallmanโs Talk at the 35th Anniversary of the FSF | Techrights | Nov 14 14:27 | |
| schestowitz | watch him | Nov 14 14:27 |
| schestowitz | never saw a robotic RMS? | Nov 14 14:28 |
| schestowitz | then watch this | Nov 14 14:28 |
| schestowitz | worse than sleepy biden | Nov 14 14:28 |
| MinceR | well, that explains the love for cancerd | Nov 14 14:28 |
| schestowitz | (I am happy Biden won) | Nov 14 14:28 |
| schestowitz | (but my dad and I agree Biden is a sleepy buffoon and an embarrassment to the yardstick of American politicians) | Nov 14 14:29 |
| *DaemonFC[m] (daemonfcma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-flzgpycwfoqddnwu) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 14:29 | |
| MinceR | politicians are shit in general | Nov 14 14:29 |
| schestowitz | like Zemlin | Nov 14 14:29 |
| schestowitz | the plutocrats want shit "in power" | Nov 14 14:30 |
| schestowitz | shit is ease to control.. it's soft | Nov 14 14:30 |
| schestowitz | and they get their hands dirty with them | Nov 14 14:30 |
| MinceR | almost everyone wants them | Nov 14 14:30 |
| MinceR | they'll always say what the masses want to hear | Nov 14 14:30 |
| MinceR | without remorse | Nov 14 14:30 |
| schestowitz | https://www.democracynow.org/2020/11/13/jane_mayer_trump_2020_election | Nov 14 14:30 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.democracynow.org | Can Trump Pardon Himself? Jane Mayer on Trumpโs Desperate Bid to Stay in Power & Avoid Prosecution | Democracy Now! | Nov 14 14:30 | |
| schestowitz | shit pardons shit, news at 11 | Nov 14 14:31 |
| schestowitz | at this point even north koreas can have a laugh | Nov 14 14:31 |
| schestowitz | you'd expect headlines like this about Kim Kong OWN | Nov 14 14:32 |
| schestowitz | pardoning oneself | Nov 14 14:32 |
| schestowitz | like talking to a mirrror | Nov 14 14:32 |
| schestowitz | Onion could use that | Nov 14 14:32 |
| schestowitz | but it's already taken | Nov 14 14:32 |
| schestowitz | by real news sites | Nov 14 14:32 |
| schestowitz | https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-consequences/ | Nov 14 14:32 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.thenation.com | The Trump-Shaped Stain on American Life | The Nation | Nov 14 14:32 | |
| CrystalMath | he should pardon Assange | Nov 14 14:39 |
| MinceR | well, he should be thankful to Assange, for helping him get elected | Nov 14 14:39 |
| CrystalMath | idk if it's really help | Nov 14 14:40 |
| CrystalMath | i mean he just revealed the truth | Nov 14 14:40 |
| MinceR | that's what twitler would say | Nov 14 14:40 |
| CrystalMath | the truth should be out there, anyway | Nov 14 14:40 |
| MinceR | yes, only the parts of the alleged truth that were convenient for cheeto hitler | Nov 14 14:40 |
| MinceR | not just random parts of the truth should be out there, but all of it | Nov 14 14:40 |
| CrystalMath | it's not Trump's fault that Hillary is a warmongering piece of crap | Nov 14 14:41 |
| CrystalMath | Trump is an infinitely better person than she is, no matter how many times i look at this | Nov 14 14:41 |
| MinceR | of course | Nov 14 14:41 |
| MinceR | anti-science would help kill a lot more people than war | Nov 14 14:41 |
| CrystalMath | i don't even need to look atTrump | Nov 14 14:41 |
| CrystalMath | i just need to look at Hillary Clinton | Nov 14 14:41 |
| MinceR | you shouldn't | Nov 14 14:41 |
| MinceR | if you did, you'd realize what a horrible excuse for a person he is | Nov 14 14:41 |
| CrystalMath | and i know that Ted Bundy would be a better president | Nov 14 14:42 |
| *rianne_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Nov 14 14:42 | |
| MinceR | you'd make the unabomber president if you could | Nov 14 14:42 |
| *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 14:42 | |
| CrystalMath | oh, well, the unabomber is way way higher than the people we're talking about now :P | Nov 14 14:42 |
| CrystalMath | other great fantasy choices would be Rev. Chris Korda or Vermin Supreme | Nov 14 14:43 |
| MinceR | i prefer nobody | Nov 14 14:43 |
| CrystalMath | Rev. Chris Korda is the leader of the Church of Euthanasia | Nov 14 14:43 |
| CrystalMath | so you see, a nice religious president :> | Nov 14 14:44 |
| CrystalMath | and the first transgender and female president of the US | Nov 14 14:44 |
| CrystalMath | it would be amazing | Nov 14 14:44 |
| CrystalMath | (also the first independent to win in a long time) | Nov 14 14:44 |
| CrystalMath | and the other option, Vermin Supreme, well he's an actual candidate | Nov 14 14:46 |
| CrystalMath | and his chosen running mate was actually adopted by Jo Jorgensen! | Nov 14 14:46 |
| CrystalMath | so it's almost like he was on the ballot this year | Nov 14 14:46 |
| CrystalMath | this was probably the best year for Vermin Supreme politically | Nov 14 14:47 |
| CrystalMath | let's hope it keeps up | Nov 14 14:49 |
| schestowitz | [14:40] <MinceR> yes, only the parts of the alleged truth that were convenient for cheeto hitler | Nov 14 14:53 |
| schestowitz | lol @ "cheeto hitler" | Nov 14 14:54 |
| CrystalMath | as if Hitlery Killton would be any better | Nov 14 14:55 |
| CrystalMath | regardless of what happened after that, i'm glad that Trump won in 2016, and i think he did a lot of good too, leaving the TTIP for example | Nov 14 14:56 |
| MinceR | you forget quickly | Nov 14 14:57 |
| CrystalMath | right, i was angry at some ofTrump's decisions | Nov 14 14:58 |
| CrystalMath | but at least he didn't start any wars | Nov 14 14:58 |
| CrystalMath | i mean that is the most important thing | Nov 14 14:58 |
| MinceR | it's not | Nov 14 14:58 |
| CrystalMath | yes it is! | Nov 14 14:58 |
| MinceR | we will survive a few wars | Nov 14 14:59 |
| MinceR | we won't survive global warming | Nov 14 14:59 |
| CrystalMath | what a heartless crappy thing to say | Nov 14 14:59 |
| MinceR | we won't survive a major meteorite impact | Nov 14 14:59 |
| CrystalMath | global warning is a slow process | Nov 14 14:59 |
| MinceR | we won't survive the Sun going red giant | Nov 14 14:59 |
| CrystalMath | we will probably ALL survive it | Nov 14 14:59 |
| CrystalMath | just don't have children :) | Nov 14 14:59 |
| MinceR | the sort of christian fundamentalist idiocy twitler and his VP promotes will only turn this planet into even more of a hell for our remaining existence | Nov 14 15:00 |
| CrystalMath | i don't even believe Trump is really a christian | Nov 14 15:00 |
| CrystalMath | Mike Pence, certainly is, but why does he matter? | Nov 14 15:00 |
| MinceR | i encounter way too many of these "not really a christian"s who try to enforce religious policies against me | Nov 14 15:01 |
| CrystalMath | Trump legalized marijuana to some extent | Nov 14 15:01 |
| MinceR | cheeto hitler chose mike pants as his VP, that's why he matters | Nov 14 15:01 |
| CrystalMath | congress is about to finish that job | Nov 14 15:01 |
| CrystalMath | and i'm sure the senate will confirm it | Nov 14 15:02 |
| CrystalMath | and Trump will sign it into law before Biden's inaugurated | Nov 14 15:02 |
| MinceR | cheeto hitler also chose the more rabidly christian fundamentalist party as his own | Nov 14 15:02 |
| CrystalMath | marijuana will be legal in the USA | Nov 14 15:02 |
| CrystalMath | it will forever stand that it was legalized during the Trump administration :) | Nov 14 15:02 |
| CrystalMath | (even if the motion was started by democrats) | Nov 14 15:03 |
| MinceR | no, it was legalized in at least one state before it | Nov 14 15:03 |
| MinceR | uh huh | Nov 14 15:03 |
| MinceR | so you're trying to rob the "democrats" of their motion to glorify Agent Orange | Nov 14 15:03 |
| MinceR | and afaik all recreational drugs were legalized in oregon by the people | Nov 14 15:03 |
| CrystalMath | there could have been so much worse republican presidents, i don't understand why you're so angry at Trump | Nov 14 15:04 |
| MinceR | i haven't seen worse ones yet | Nov 14 15:04 |
| CrystalMath | this one didn't harm abortion | Nov 14 15:04 |
| MinceR | but i'm sure the stupid party will come up with worse candidates yet | Nov 14 15:04 |
| CrystalMath | are you blind? even Reagan was super anti-drug | Nov 14 15:04 |
| MinceR | yes he did | Nov 14 15:04 |
| CrystalMath | and Reagan was loved by the entire country | Nov 14 15:05 |
| MinceR | he put a supreme court judge in place who will do everything she can to ban abortion | Nov 14 15:05 |
| CrystalMath | that's speculation | Nov 14 15:05 |
| MinceR | yes, ronnie raygun was crazy too | Nov 14 15:05 |
| CrystalMath | Amy Coney Barrett in particular believes that the supreme court should not have so much power | Nov 14 15:05 |
| CrystalMath | that it should be democratic, up to the legislators | Nov 14 15:05 |
| CrystalMath | to decide | Nov 14 15:05 |
| MinceR | she probably actually believes that it should be up to "God" | Nov 14 15:06 |
| MinceR | she's a christian fundamentalist like scalia | Nov 14 15:06 |
| CrystalMath | no, the best kind of person for the supreme court is not one who has "the right belief" (according to your church) but the one who says "my personal belief is not important" | Nov 14 15:07 |
| CrystalMath | the best supreme court judge is the one who is willing to ignore their personal belief | Nov 14 15:07 |
| CrystalMath | and Amy Coney Barrett might just be the one to do it | Nov 14 15:07 |
| MinceR | https://imgur.com/gallery/OqwlS8F | Nov 14 15:07 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Mystery Sword! What will it be? - Album on Imgur | Nov 14 15:07 | |
| MinceR | i don't have a church | Nov 14 15:07 |
| CrystalMath | yes you do | Nov 14 15:07 |
| MinceR | > might | Nov 14 15:07 |
| MinceR | and so you admit you're speculating | Nov 14 15:07 |
| CrystalMath | well what she said she will do is really hard | Nov 14 15:08 |
| MinceR | ah yes, the good old religious zealot's assumption that everyone is religious | Nov 14 15:08 |
| MinceR | "it's just not possible that someone doesn't believe in some random unsubstantiated bullshit!" | Nov 14 15:08 |
| CrystalMath | anyway, i think you're a member of the church of global warming and the latter day scientists | Nov 14 15:08 |
| MinceR | ah yes | Nov 14 15:09 |
| MinceR | science is now a "religion" to you because you don't agree with it | Nov 14 15:09 |
| CrystalMath | i wasn't referring to actual science :P | Nov 14 15:09 |
| MinceR | after all, the "good book" told you that you get to do whatever to this planet and screw anyone who says otherwise | Nov 14 15:09 |
| CrystalMath | umm, would a supporter of the church of euthanasia believe in human supremacy? | Nov 14 15:10 |
| CrystalMath | absolutely not | Nov 14 15:10 |
| CrystalMath | i believe in human extinction, actually | Nov 14 15:10 |
| MinceR | and you'll try to do it in the most devastating way | Nov 14 15:10 |
| MinceR | making sure all life dies on this planet | Nov 14 15:11 |
| CrystalMath | no, you see i don't think global warming is truly unrepairable | Nov 14 15:11 |
| CrystalMath | it's going to disrupt us more, as we've built a whole framework of things that we depend on | Nov 14 15:11 |
| CrystalMath | once human society tears down individual humans are done for | Nov 14 15:11 |
| CrystalMath | but non-human animals will be fine | Nov 14 15:11 |
| CrystalMath | another great event that would help planet earth would be a massive solar flare | Nov 14 15:12 |
| CrystalMath | it would be much kinder | Nov 14 15:12 |
| MinceR | yeah, maybe we could stop right now | Nov 14 15:12 |
| MinceR | but we won't | Nov 14 15:12 |
| CrystalMath | but it's also connected - global warming disrupts the earth's magnetic field | Nov 14 15:12 |
| MinceR | in part thanks to cheeto hitler | Nov 14 15:12 |
| superkuh | CrystalMath sure is good at saying wrong things. | Nov 14 15:12 |
| MinceR | "conservatives" won't stop denying global warming's existence until it's well past the point of no return | Nov 14 15:13 |
| CrystalMath | as for the melting of the polar ice caps, i think you could predict it a million years ago | Nov 14 15:13 |
| superkuh | Just tearing across freenode recently. | Nov 14 15:13 |
| MinceR | CrystalMath: so, how many non-human animals live on Venus? | Nov 14 15:13 |
| MinceR | how many of them _could_ survive there? | Nov 14 15:13 |
| CrystalMath | superkuh: what did i say that's wrong? | Nov 14 15:13 |
| MinceR | just about everything | Nov 14 15:13 |
| CrystalMath | MinceR: none, of course; but i don't think the earth will be like venus | Nov 14 15:13 |
| MinceR | of course you don't | Nov 14 15:14 |
| MinceR | "God" will save you! | Nov 14 15:14 |
| CrystalMath | no, of course not | Nov 14 15:14 |
| CrystalMath | there's no god | Nov 14 15:14 |
| CrystalMath | what will happen | Nov 14 15:14 |
| CrystalMath | is that humans will die out | Nov 14 15:14 |
| CrystalMath | and then the planet will get back to normal | Nov 14 15:14 |
| CrystalMath | i'm for saving the planet but AFTER killing off humans | Nov 14 15:14 |
| MinceR | it will never go back to normal | Nov 14 15:14 |
| CrystalMath | you do realize the earth has been hotter and colder than now, right? | Nov 14 15:14 |
| MinceR | especially if religious nutcases and racists manage to stir up some more wars to try and make sure other cults/races die out before they do | Nov 14 15:14 |
| MinceR | using weapons that were developed using knowledge they claim to be lies | Nov 14 15:15 |
| CrystalMath | or maybe some Bidens stir up wars | Nov 14 15:15 |
| MinceR | could be | Nov 14 15:15 |
| CrystalMath | Bush is firmly anti-Trump | Nov 14 15:15 |
| MinceR | while they're not as rabidly christian fundamentalist as the "republicans", the "democrats" are still christian fundamentalists | Nov 14 15:15 |
| CrystalMath | he's on your side :) | Nov 14 15:15 |
| MinceR | bush is a christian fundamentalist too | Nov 14 15:16 |
| CrystalMath | the problem is that you're all human supremacists | Nov 14 15:16 |
| CrystalMath | would you even want to save the planet, if you knew that a saved planet is one that doesn't have you nor your kind? | Nov 14 15:16 |
| CrystalMath | i would | Nov 14 15:16 |
| MinceR | i would | Nov 14 15:16 |
| MinceR | but i'd prefer to change humans so they'd be worthy of survival | Nov 14 15:17 |
| CrystalMath | well i think the problem is human technology | Nov 14 15:17 |
| MinceR | or at least get rid of the ones that are holding us back | Nov 14 15:17 |
| CrystalMath | and i don't think you can really stop that | Nov 14 15:17 |
| MinceR | without human technology, nothing on earth is likely to survive for long | Nov 14 15:17 |
| CrystalMath | nonsense | Nov 14 15:17 |
| CrystalMath | it survived for billions of years | Nov 14 15:17 |
| MinceR | oh wait, i forgot, your bible doesn't mention the Sun going red giant | Nov 14 15:18 |
| CrystalMath | nature is way better than anything humans ever invented | Nov 14 15:18 |
| MinceR | or asteroids | Nov 14 15:18 |
| CrystalMath | i'm a nature supremacist / anti-humanist | Nov 14 15:18 |
| MinceR | so where are the non-human natural spaceships? | Nov 14 15:18 |
| MinceR | where are the non-human natural anti-asteroid missiles? | Nov 14 15:18 |
| CrystalMath | nature kills species off all the time, i do not question it | Nov 14 15:18 |
| MinceR | none of it will matter in about 5 billion years | Nov 14 15:19 |
| CrystalMath | there are other planets | Nov 14 15:19 |
| MinceR | unless we get our act together and save this biosphere with our technology | Nov 14 15:19 |
| CrystalMath | nature will evolve something there | Nov 14 15:19 |
| MinceR | and that something will be wiped out | Nov 14 15:19 |
| CrystalMath | life isn't serious business | Nov 14 15:19 |
| MinceR | probably before it even evolves sapience | Nov 14 15:19 |
| CrystalMath | good | Nov 14 15:19 |
| CrystalMath | i'm against intelligence | Nov 14 15:19 |
| CrystalMath | i hope that nothing like humanity ever forms ever again | Nov 14 15:20 |
| MinceR | that explains so much | Nov 14 15:20 |
| MinceR | including your love for cheeto hitler | Nov 14 15:20 |
| MinceR | finally a human without intelligence! | Nov 14 15:20 |
| CrystalMath | no i'm just against it, i hope for my own death and the death of all those like me | Nov 14 15:21 |
| CrystalMath | ultimately all life in the universe will end eventually | Nov 14 15:21 |
| CrystalMath | but at least there won't be anyone to whine about it | Nov 14 15:21 |
| CrystalMath | without us, it will be populated only by proud creatures that will accept their death with dignity | Nov 14 15:22 |
| CrystalMath | this whole "god" thing you speak of is precisely the undignified avoidance of the NECESSITY of death | Nov 14 15:22 |
| CrystalMath | and the greatness of death | Nov 14 15:22 |
| CrystalMath | just like your vision of science as conquering all obstacles | Nov 14 15:23 |
| CrystalMath | my vision of science is just gathering knowledge for the purpose of learning about and revering nature, and debunking stupid myths | Nov 14 15:23 |
| CrystalMath | i don't believe in conquering death, i believe in accepting it | Nov 14 15:24 |
| *chomwitt has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) | Nov 14 15:25 | |
| MinceR | death is certainly better than what "conservatives" would turn life into if they had all the power | Nov 14 15:25 |
| CrystalMath | death is certain better than what the technocrats would turn life into if they had all the power | Nov 14 15:28 |
| CrystalMath | *certainly | Nov 14 15:28 |
| MinceR | you don't even know what technocrats are | Nov 14 15:29 |
| MinceR | https://xkcd.com/2151/ | Nov 14 15:33 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: A/B | Nov 14 15:33 | |
| CrystalMath | MinceR: technocracy as in the rule of so-called experts | Nov 14 15:35 |
| CrystalMath | i will admit i was really off the mark when i said "anti-science would be good", rather, we should be anti-experts | Nov 14 15:37 |
| *XRevan86 sacrifices green house emissions to the global warming god | Nov 14 15:37 | |
| CrystalMath | according to Richard Feynman, science is the belief in the ignorance of experts | Nov 14 15:37 |
| CrystalMath | so "anti-science" would certainly mean something like a dogmatic religion | Nov 14 15:38 |
| MinceR | very nice twisting of words | Nov 14 15:38 |
| MinceR | do words mean anything to you anymore? | Nov 14 15:38 |
| CrystalMath | well i'm actually trying to correct what i said a few days ago | Nov 14 15:38 |
| XRevan86 | dogma, definition: A doctrine (or set of doctrines) relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth authoritatively by a religious organization or leader. | Nov 14 15:38 |
| CrystalMath | we should not discard science | Nov 14 15:39 |
| MinceR | by making all the words in it make the opposite? | Nov 14 15:39 |
| MinceR | s/make/mean/ | Nov 14 15:39 |
| XRevan86 | A dogmatic religion is any religion. | Nov 14 15:39 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: fine :P | Nov 14 15:39 |
| CrystalMath | MinceR: so what is your definition of a technocracy? | Nov 14 15:40 |
| XRevan86 | "A system of governance where people who are skilled or proficient govern in their respective areas of expertise." | Nov 14 15:40 |
| CrystalMath | yes, this is bad | Nov 14 15:40 |
| MinceR | CrystalMath: irrelevant, as i didn't bring it up | Nov 14 15:41 |
| CrystalMath | because it is precisely the rule of so-called experts that i mentioned above | Nov 14 15:41 |
| MinceR | but yeah, it's so much better to have unskilled and nonproficient people govern :> | Nov 14 15:41 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: I think what this is trying to oppose is the efficient-manager-cracy | Nov 14 15:41 |
| CrystalMath | kind of like when they say that science tells us to do covid lockdowns | Nov 14 15:41 |
| CrystalMath | which is bullcrap | Nov 14 15:41 |
| MinceR | i can see where the love for Steaming Dump comes from | Nov 14 15:41 |
| CrystalMath | science can tell us that not doing covid lockdowns will lead to many deaths | Nov 14 15:41 |
| CrystalMath | science CANNOT tell us that those deaths are *bad* | Nov 14 15:41 |
| MinceR | no, science tells us that one way to slow down the spread of the disease is to do lockdowns | Nov 14 15:41 |
| XRevan86 | Humans, when will you learn that dying is good? | Nov 14 15:42 |
| MinceR | science does not tell us goals, only likely ways of approaching them | Nov 14 15:42 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: exactly | Nov 14 15:42 |
| MinceR | today's society teaches people that dying is good | Nov 14 15:42 |
| MinceR | but it's conditional | Nov 14 15:42 |
| XRevan86 | I for one welcome our new genocidal overlords. | Nov 14 15:42 |
| MinceR | dying is good because it lets one out of this hell (hopefully) | Nov 14 15:42 |
| MinceR | it doesn't have to be this way | Nov 14 15:42 |
| CrystalMath | the universe will always be cruel to all complexity in it | Nov 14 15:42 |
| CrystalMath | but i love and accept that cruelty | Nov 14 15:43 |
| CrystalMath | that's why i'm not killing myself | Nov 14 15:43 |
| CrystalMath | solely because i'm a masochist | Nov 14 15:43 |
| MinceR | if you didn't have that complexity, you would be unable to love or accept that cruelty | Nov 14 15:43 |
| CrystalMath | i know | Nov 14 15:43 |
| CrystalMath | it's like a perfect system | Nov 14 15:43 |
| CrystalMath | the first level of cruelty is being forced to acknowledge it | Nov 14 15:44 |
| MinceR | if the point of a perfect system is suffering, then today's society is ideal for you | Nov 14 15:44 |
| MinceR | it's pretty good at causing suffering, after all | Nov 14 15:44 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: needless suffering even | Nov 14 15:44 |
| CrystalMath | well i don't know | Nov 14 15:44 |
| MinceR | and in that case, you should also be pro-war | Nov 14 15:44 |
| CrystalMath | i don't like what humans do | Nov 14 15:44 |
| CrystalMath | i like nature's imposed cruelty | Nov 14 15:44 |
| MinceR | war is pretty good at causing suffering and death | Nov 14 15:44 |
| CrystalMath | and why do i like conservatives? well | Nov 14 15:45 |
| CrystalMath | i think that conservatives won't be the one chipping people | Nov 14 15:45 |
| CrystalMath | if anyone does that, it will be people like you | Nov 14 15:45 |
| CrystalMath | so i support conservatives | Nov 14 15:45 |
| MinceR | that's ridiculous | Nov 14 15:45 |
| CrystalMath | *the ones | Nov 14 15:45 |
| MinceR | "conservatives" don't even understand why chipping people is bad | Nov 14 15:45 |
| CrystalMath | sure they do, they have that book of revelations | Nov 14 15:45 |
| MinceR | and they trust the people pushing the chips because those people are rich | Nov 14 15:45 |
| MinceR | do they? | Nov 14 15:46 |
| XRevan86 | They'll be the first to chip themselves if that gives them a Netflix discount. | Nov 14 15:46 |
| MinceR | they didn't even recognize the antichrist | Nov 14 15:46 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: This stuff can be applied to anything, they might, they might not. | Nov 14 15:46 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: yeah, i can't explain it, there's some kind of aura of awesomeness around Trump | Nov 14 15:47 |
| CrystalMath | like he's gonna fix everything, he just projects this aura | Nov 14 15:47 |
| MinceR | the aura of anti-intelligence | Nov 14 15:47 |
| CrystalMath | MinceR: :P | Nov 14 15:47 |
| CrystalMath | that made me laugh out loud actually | Nov 14 15:47 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: It's called "impression" | Nov 14 15:47 |
| XRevan86 | and it's more of your impression of him formed by your biases, beliefs, and whichever propaganda you consumed. | Nov 14 15:48 |
| CrystalMath | well, okay i think i know what the bias is | Nov 14 15:48 |
| CrystalMath | i would like a leader that will lead humanity back to a simpler life | Nov 14 15:48 |
| CrystalMath | and Trump seems like a very simple person | Nov 14 15:49 |
| CrystalMath | and a powerful simple person | Nov 14 15:49 |
| XRevan86 | A holy saboteur | Nov 14 15:49 |
| MinceR | he wouldn't be able to survive a simpler life | Nov 14 15:49 |
| MinceR | he depends on other people to keep him alive | Nov 14 15:49 |
| CrystalMath | but he already did | Nov 14 15:49 |
| CrystalMath | he lived in the past | Nov 14 15:49 |
| CrystalMath | he's 70 now | Nov 14 15:49 |
| MinceR | everyone has | Nov 14 15:49 |
| XRevan86 | He will gorbachevise the United States and lead it to star^W salvation | Nov 14 15:49 |
| MinceR | but i'm referring to a much more distant past | Nov 14 15:49 |
| CrystalMath | yeah i don't have my hopes up that high | Nov 14 15:50 |
| MinceR | he won't do anything, even the "republicans" are tired of him now | Nov 14 15:50 |
| CrystalMath | i think Trump could maybe set us back to the 60s, that's about the best possible result | Nov 14 15:50 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It's more of a dream picture of CrystalMath than something reflected in reality | Nov 14 15:50 |
| MinceR | ah yes, alternative reality | Nov 14 15:50 |
| XRevan86 | I don't mean it like he actually "will" | Nov 14 15:50 |
| MinceR | "alternative facts" | Nov 14 15:50 |
| CrystalMath | yeah it's possible | Nov 14 15:51 |
| CrystalMath | i kinda accept that already | Nov 14 15:51 |
| XRevan86 | I do think that gorbachevisation is a fun way to look at the hopes and dreams of CrystalMath. | Nov 14 15:51 |
| CrystalMath | i always vote for simpler people | Nov 14 15:52 |
| CrystalMath | like, given the choice between voting for a scientist or a farmer, i voted for a farmer | Nov 14 15:52 |
| CrystalMath | i was, in real life, given such a choice | Nov 14 15:52 |
| CrystalMath | i think simpler people are better people | Nov 14 15:52 |
| MinceR | we could produce people who could attract votes of people like CrystalMath, but removing much of the brain right after birth is unethical | Nov 14 15:52 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Do you think that Russia is a good role-model for the US? | Nov 14 15:53 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: i think that i don't really know enough about russia | Nov 14 15:53 |
| XRevan86 | Good answer %). | Nov 14 15:54 |
| CrystalMath | what i like about it, are the huge areas that are just trees and nature | Nov 14 15:54 |
| CrystalMath | but you can't really move those | Nov 14 15:54 |
| MinceR | yet you support the Moscovian Candidate :> | Nov 14 15:54 |
| CrystalMath | and Trump surely isn't creating that | Nov 14 15:54 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: And illegal woodcutting and uncontrolled pollution | Nov 14 15:55 |
| CrystalMath | if i moved to russia i wouldn't live in Moscow | Nov 14 15:55 |
| XRevan86 | Russia doesn't treasure nature one bit. It has an abundance of it and it takes it as free stuff. | Nov 14 15:55 |
| CrystalMath | i would choose some smaller town | Nov 14 15:55 |
| MinceR | and does everything it can to destroy it | Nov 14 15:56 |
| CrystalMath | much smaller | Nov 14 15:56 |
| CrystalMath | well i am aware that russia is big on fossil fuels and natural gas | Nov 14 15:56 |
| MinceR | like melting the permafrost, releasing ancient methane from it | Nov 14 15:56 |
| MinceR | and devastating wildlife | Nov 14 15:56 |
| XRevan86 | There's even a quasi-illegal import of radioactive waste. | Nov 14 15:56 |
| CrystalMath | the permafrost has not always been there MinceR :P | Nov 14 15:56 |
| XRevan86 | Because this abundance of territory is also an abundance in dumping ground. | Nov 14 15:57 |
| MinceR | neither has the Earth | Nov 14 15:57 |
| CrystalMath | i don't think humans can melt enough of it to make a difference, as it has to go away anyway | Nov 14 15:57 |
| CrystalMath | even without us, it would go away eventually | Nov 14 15:57 |
| MinceR | by then we'd be able to handle it | Nov 14 15:57 |
| CrystalMath | we SHOULDN'T handle it | Nov 14 15:57 |
| CrystalMath | we should let nature do its t hing | Nov 14 15:57 |
| CrystalMath | *thing | Nov 14 15:57 |
| MinceR | and we could save earth life | Nov 14 15:57 |
| CrystalMath | you can't save earth life, you can only change it | Nov 14 15:58 |
| MinceR | earth life is beautiful, why do you want it to die out? | Nov 14 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | in your direction | Nov 14 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | it wouldn't die out without permafrost | Nov 14 15:58 |
| MinceR | some of it would | Nov 14 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | yes | Nov 14 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | it would change | Nov 14 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | as it always has | Nov 14 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | that's what life is all about | Nov 14 15:58 |
| MinceR | and without technology, all of it will in ~5 billion years | Nov 14 15:58 |
| MinceR | or earlier | Nov 14 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | species go extinct | Nov 14 15:58 |
| MinceR | maybe to someone who worships death, life is all about death | Nov 14 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | no | Nov 14 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | death is just an important part of life | Nov 14 15:59 |
| CrystalMath | to love life is to love death | Nov 14 15:59 |
| CrystalMath | to hate death is to hate life | Nov 14 15:59 |
| vZS1 | This planet is the best we've got | Nov 14 15:59 |
| MinceR | yes, going extinct is so important to earth life | Nov 14 15:59 |
| vZS1 | We know we can survive here | Nov 14 15:59 |
| CrystalMath | vZS1: it's not for us | Nov 14 15:59 |
| CrystalMath | we just happened to evolve here | Nov 14 15:59 |
| CrystalMath | it was not made for us, nor are things ever made for us | Nov 14 15:59 |
| vZS1 | Everything else is conjecture | Nov 14 15:59 |
| MinceR | it's not for us, it's for the Sun! | Nov 14 16:00 |
| CrystalMath | MinceR: i would be strongly against controlling nature | Nov 14 16:00 |
| MinceR | CrystalMath's sacrificial pyre | Nov 14 16:00 |
| CrystalMath | at every turn | Nov 14 16:00 |
| CrystalMath | the desire to control nature in my opinion is evil | Nov 14 16:00 |
| CrystalMath | it's anthropocentrism | Nov 14 16:00 |
| MinceR | from my point of view, the Jedi are evil! | Nov 14 16:00 |
| CrystalMath | the sith are evil too :P | Nov 14 16:01 |
| CrystalMath | anyone who wants to control something rather than let it go with the flow is evil | Nov 14 16:02 |
| MinceR | so why do you control your fingers to type into this chat? just go with the flow -- starve and decompose. | Nov 14 16:03 |
| CrystalMath | because i'm evil | Nov 14 16:03 |
| CrystalMath | however, at least i will die | Nov 14 16:03 |
| CrystalMath | eventually | Nov 14 16:03 |
| CrystalMath | and i'm happy about that | Nov 14 16:03 |
| XRevan86 | What is the main property of life? It's evil. | Nov 14 16:03 |
| MinceR | yeah, it locally goes against entropy | Nov 14 16:04 |
| CrystalMath | MinceR: in all seriousness, i believe all ambition to be evil | Nov 14 16:04 |
| XRevan86 | That pretty much sums up life. | Nov 14 16:04 |
| CrystalMath | intrinsically i'm disgusted by ambition | Nov 14 16:05 |
| vZS1 | schestowitz: so what I've done is that for each script I've generated a trace ID that makes it easy to associate log output with the script. | Nov 14 16:05 |
| XRevan86 | All life has the ambition to live. | Nov 14 16:05 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: idk if i look at it that far | Nov 14 16:06 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: i mean, i just hate ambitions to be above something else | Nov 14 16:06 |
| CrystalMath | although you could say life has the ambition to be above minerals | Nov 14 16:06 |
| CrystalMath | then again, i think minerals are alive too in some way, after all, processes occur on them | Nov 14 16:06 |
| MinceR | so does the atmosphere | Nov 14 16:06 |
| XRevan86 | My computer is alive, even when it's powered off. | Nov 14 16:07 |
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| CrystalMath | XRevan86: but anyway, russia is so big that you can find areas that are basically untouched | Nov 14 16:11 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Right, and then someone will dump shit into it. | Nov 14 16:11 |
| CrystalMath | but russia has a good space program, they could launch waste into space | Nov 14 16:11 |
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| XRevan86 | 30 years ago it was in areas 30 years ahead | Nov 14 16:12 |
| XRevan86 | now it's just *a* space programme | Nov 14 16:13 |
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| MinceR | launching waste into space is incredibly expensive | Nov 14 16:16 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in #Techrights โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144365 [https://pleroma.site/objects/891510ab-cdb1-480b-9d0a-ea708f83aded] | Nov 14 16:16 | |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: You're assuming non-smart people and no progress do good to a country | Nov 14 16:16 |
| MinceR | even richer countries couldn't afford to do that, let alone russia | Nov 14 16:16 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: Russia is rich. It just allocated more than a billion dollars for Syria. | Nov 14 16:18 |
| vZS1 | Oligarchs are rich | Nov 14 16:19 |
| MinceR | XRevan86: these tables say otherwise >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita | Nov 14 16:19 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita - Wikipedia | Nov 14 16:19 | |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: It doesn't invest in its own economy, why would the GDP be high | Nov 14 16:20 |
| vZS1 | Russia invests plenty of money | Nov 14 16:20 |
| vZS1 | In its plutocracy | Nov 14 16:20 |
| MinceR | it also doesn't allow for a diverse economy | Nov 14 16:20 |
| XRevan86 | It does invest in monopolies, that it does. | Nov 14 16:20 |
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| vZS1 | MinceR, XRevan86, consider taking a bit of a rest from IRC. It is the weekend. Don't get IRC fatigue. Expanding your ignore list may even help your blood pressure. (: | Nov 14 16:22 |
| XRevan86 | vZS1: I'm not the one who produced a million messages this night :) | Nov 14 16:23 |
| MinceR | :) | Nov 14 16:23 |
| vZS1 | We could use more cats around here | Nov 14 16:24 |
| XRevan86 | vZS1: Nay, they're ambitious and evil | Nov 14 16:25 |
| vZS1 | Dogs work too | Nov 14 16:26 |
| MinceR | no they don't | Nov 14 16:26 |
| XRevan86 | same | Nov 14 16:26 |
| MinceR | dogs are stinky, filthy, stupid and evil | Nov 14 16:26 |
| XRevan86 | Now rocks, now that's good stuff. | Nov 14 16:26 |
| MinceR | lol | Nov 14 16:26 |
| vZS1 | Minerals | Nov 14 16:26 |
| MinceR | rocks have the ambition to be above the molten core | Nov 14 16:27 |
| MinceR | such arrogance. | Nov 14 16:27 |
| XRevan86 | https://www.metalinfo.ru/ru/news/106856_big.jpg what a cutie | Nov 14 16:27 |
| XRevan86 | MinceR: No, don't talk shit about rocks, they just happened to be above. | Nov 14 16:27 |
| XRevan86 | It's not ambition, it's circumstance! | Nov 14 16:28 |
| MinceR | lol | Nov 14 16:28 |
| XRevan86 | (rock) https://centralasia.news/uploads/posts/2019-12/1575529929_zheleznaja-ruda.jpg | Nov 14 16:29 |
| vZS1 | That's looks like it could be an item in a card game | Nov 14 16:29 |
| vZS1 | s/That's/That | Nov 14 16:30 |
| MinceR | (cat) https://ircz.de/p/20081962 | Nov 14 16:30 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4834966) | Nov 14 16:30 | |
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| MinceR | https://xkcd.com/2169/ | Nov 14 17:08 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: Predictive Models | Nov 14 17:08 | |
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| DaemonFC[m] | We only barely got rid of this son of a bitch after 4 years of watching him try to knock our country over to appease the far right because he thought it would clear the way for 8 years of looting. | Nov 14 17:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | With Assange, I say hang him. | Nov 14 17:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Hang him high. | Nov 14 17:58 |
| CrystalMath | DaemonFC[m]: screw you you sack of human garbage | Nov 14 17:58 |
| *birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Nov 14 17:59 | |
| CrystalMath | DaemonFC[m]: Assange is a hero | Nov 14 17:59 |
| CrystalMath | DaemonFC[m]: i hope you and your bastard Biden get shot | Nov 14 17:59 |
| CrystalMath | DaemonFC[m]: but ESPECIALLY you | Nov 14 17:59 |
| scientes | CrystalMath, just ignore him like I do | Nov 14 18:00 |
| scientes | XRevan86, the obsidion in it looks like the eyes of an insect | Nov 14 18:00 |
| scientes | where there is no iron | Nov 14 18:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://news.yahoo.com/trump-win-fantasy-electors-bid-053422014.html?guccounter=1 | Nov 14 18:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.yahoo.com | GOP leaders in 4 states quash dubious Trump bid on electors | Nov 14 18:01 | |
| CrystalMath | scientes: you're right that there's no sense in talking to someone who believes that it's not bad to commit heinous crimes but rather it's bad to SHOW that someone committed heinous crimes | Nov 14 18:02 |
| CrystalMath | i can't die until Hillary Clinton dies, so that i can throw a party on that day | Nov 14 18:03 |
| CrystalMath | it will be the best day ever | Nov 14 18:03 |
| scientes | CrystalMath, breathe | Nov 14 18:03 |
| scientes | I think you are forgetting to breathe | Nov 14 18:03 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Breathing is evil anyway. | Nov 14 18:06 |
| CrystalMath | everyone in the american administration between 1992 and 2016 deserves to be tortured to death | Nov 14 18:06 |
| CrystalMath | and even that wouldn't be enough | Nov 14 18:06 |
| CrystalMath | actually 1988 to 2016 | Nov 14 18:07 |
| CrystalMath | i think the entire time period 1988-2016 would be best erased from history, as it was so disasterous | Nov 14 18:08 |
| *birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-vbpmjmhdxcmpnrie) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 18:15 | |
| schestowitz | XRevan86: for weeks now Meduza RSS feed (English) had not updated | Nov 14 18:20 |
| schestowitz | same issue as a year ago | Nov 14 18:20 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: Oh, I've forgotten I should look into it | Nov 14 18:20 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: let me know if I need to run something from my end | Nov 14 18:21 |
| schestowitz | XRevan86: last time I contacted them they did not even respond | Nov 14 18:22 |
| vZS1 | schestowitz: don't think anything is required. Once I see how it goes on my Pi, I'll just log into your Pi and setup the automation | Nov 14 18:22 |
| schestowitz | [16:20] <vZS1> Russia invests plenty of money | Nov 14 18:23 |
| schestowitz | [16:20] <vZS1> In its plutocracy | Nov 14 18:23 |
| schestowitz | sane in USSA | Nov 14 18:23 |
| schestowitz | 15 billion for US billionaires | Nov 14 18:23 |
| schestowitz | and who knows how much in offshore havens | Nov 14 18:23 |
| schestowitz | 15 TRILLIONS I mean | Nov 14 18:23 |
| schestowitz | and 27 TRILLION in national debt | Nov 14 18:23 |
| schestowitz | with space programmes that help funnel money into the coffers of Trump boosters like "pedo guy" Musk-Have $ | Nov 14 18:24 |
| CrystalMath | is Musk really a pedo? | Nov 14 18:24 |
| schestowitz | no | Nov 14 18:24 |
| schestowitz | he calls people "pedo guy" | Nov 14 18:24 |
| schestowitz | for actually saving lives | Nov 14 18:24 |
| schestowitz | instead of tweeting crap | Nov 14 18:24 |
| schestowitz | he got sued for it | Nov 14 18:25 |
| CrystalMath | who did he call that? | Nov 14 18:25 |
| schestowitz | look that up | Nov 14 18:25 |
| schestowitz | a diver | Nov 14 18:25 |
| schestowitz | who saved kids trapped in a cave | Nov 14 18:25 |
| CrystalMath | i see, reading about it | Nov 14 18:26 |
| CrystalMath | Musk won that case | Nov 14 18:26 |
| schestowitz | rich people get away with libel | Nov 14 18:27 |
| schestowitz | as usuaal | Nov 14 18:27 |
| CrystalMath | idk, it was unfair of him to say that | Nov 14 18:27 |
| CrystalMath | but is it a crime? idk | Nov 14 18:27 |
| CrystalMath | it just sounds like he lashed out, but why? | Nov 14 18:27 |
| schestowitz | if musky had lost the judge would be called "pedo guy" | Nov 14 18:27 |
| schestowitz | in a tweet | Nov 14 18:27 |
| schestowitz | those are pretty nasty lashouts | Nov 14 18:28 |
| schestowitz | against someone who risked his life | Nov 14 18:28 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian 11 bullseye - Default Theme Revealed โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144366 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2c7f3d13-01aa-44a8-93ee-56191dd411ce] | Nov 14 18:32 | |
| CrystalMath | schestowitz: yeah i don't get it | Nov 14 18:40 |
| CrystalMath | i mean i suppose there is the trick to become famous by bad publicity | Nov 14 18:41 |
| CrystalMath | but Elon Musk was already famous | Nov 14 18:41 |
| CrystalMath | what could he possibly hope to get? | Nov 14 18:41 |
| vZS1 | Helping kids is a thankless job | Nov 14 18:42 |
| vZS1 | When the pedos get all the credit for their "charity" | Nov 14 18:42 |
| schestowitz | https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/10/jim-watkins-child-pornography-domains | Nov 14 18:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.motherjones.com | QAnon Is Supposed to Be All About Protecting Kids. Its Primary Enabler Appears to Have Hosted Child Porn Domains. โ Mother Jones | Nov 14 18:46 | |
| CrystalMath | primary enabler? | Nov 14 18:47 |
| CrystalMath | 4chan? | Nov 14 18:47 |
| CrystalMath | or what? | Nov 14 18:47 |
| schestowitz | oh, don't tell me you too are into that cult | Nov 14 18:48 |
| schestowitz | qanon/3chan | Nov 14 18:48 |
| CrystalMath | no | Nov 14 18:48 |
| CrystalMath | what's 3chan? | Nov 14 18:48 |
| schestowitz | *5chan etc. | Nov 14 18:48 |
| schestowitz | I'm mistyping | Nov 14 18:48 |
| schestowitz | means 4chan | Nov 14 18:48 |
| CrystalMath | i've heard of 4chan as an internet site | Nov 14 18:48 |
| CrystalMath | i don't really go there | Nov 14 18:48 |
| schestowitz | there's also 6 | Nov 14 18:48 |
| CrystalMath | and 2ch | Nov 14 18:48 |
| CrystalMath | which is the best | Nov 14 18:48 |
| CrystalMath | 2ch.jp | Nov 14 18:48 |
| CrystalMath | the original | Nov 14 18:48 |
| CrystalMath | i'm not into qanon, in the sense that i don't believe that qanon knows any secrets | Nov 14 18:49 |
| CrystalMath | i think it's just some ARG | Nov 14 18:49 |
| CrystalMath | 4chan is very fond of those, as is 2ch | Nov 14 18:49 |
| CrystalMath | oh it's not 2ch.jp, it's .net | Nov 14 18:50 |
| CrystalMath | and now it's 2ch.sc | Nov 14 18:52 |
| CrystalMath | heh, things changed a lot | Nov 14 18:52 |
| CrystalMath | i don't really remember my experience with the chans much | Nov 14 18:52 |
| CrystalMath | it was a long time ago and very little | Nov 14 18:52 |
| scientes | and 7chan | Nov 14 19:23 |
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| smnthermes | > โ[04:19:34] โschestowitzโ: That's a shame, I would stop accessing it altogether if it means what I think it means | Nov 14 19:31 |
| smnthermes | Use nitter.net | Nov 14 19:31 |
| smnthermes | For Twitter | Nov 14 19:31 |
| XRevan86 | Russia has a good space programme: https://fontanka.ru/2020/11/13/69542566/ | Nov 14 19:32 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.fontanka.ru | ะ ะพัะบะพัะผะพั ะฑัะดะตั ะฒัะฟััะบะฐัั ะฟะฐัััะผะตัะธั, ะพะดะตะถะดั ะธ ะฐะปะบะพะณะพะปั ะฟะพะด ะฑัะตะฝะดะพะผ ยซะะพะตั ะฐะปะธ!ยป - ะะปะฐััั - ะะพะฒะพััะธ ะกะฐะฝะบั-ะะตัะตัะฑััะณะฐ - ะคะพะฝัะฐะฝะบะฐ.ะ ั | Nov 14 19:32 | |
| cybrNaut | there's a plugin that redirects all twtr accesses to nitter | Nov 14 19:32 |
| XRevan86 | Roscosmos will sell start selling perfume, clothes and alcoholic beverages under the brand name "Let's Go!" (Gagarin's phrase) | Nov 14 19:33 |
| XRevan86 | It's now a trademark. | Nov 14 19:33 |
| scientes | XRevan86, did you see that the United Arab Emirates successfully launched a probe headed to mars? | Nov 14 19:34 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Without the merch I'm not interested. | Nov 14 19:35 |
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| scientes | Russia space program has merch? | Nov 14 19:35 |
| scientes | cybrNaut, does it also direct twat to twitter? | Nov 14 19:35 |
| XRevan86 | scientes: Well, I don't know if this counts as merch, but pretty muchโฆ | Nov 14 19:35 |
| XRevan86 | this wasn't a joke | Nov 14 19:35 |
| XRevan86 | they really will | Nov 14 19:36 |
| cybrNaut | scientes: you lost me, but the plugin is called Privacy Redirector if you want to have a look | Nov 14 19:38 |
| scientes | XRevan86, I wonder if you can ship uranium ore in the mail in Russia https://www.uraniumstore.com/product-page/uranium-ore-sample-456-33g | Nov 14 19:41 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.uraniumstore.com | Uranium Ore Sample 456.33g 147,000 CPM | Uranium Store | Nov 14 19:41 | |
| smnthermes | Also, it's time for FSF to delete its Twitter account, since the main version requires non-free JS | Nov 14 19:41 |
| scientes | https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52apxc_025.htm | Nov 14 19:41 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pe.usps.com | USPS Packaging Instruction 7A | Postal Explorer | Nov 14 19:42 | |
| XRevan86 | scientes: I don't have experience for that. | Nov 14 19:43 |
| XRevan86 | to answer that | Nov 14 19:43 |
| scientes | the point is that you don't need experience to do this | Nov 14 19:54 |
| scientes | it has clear regulations | Nov 14 19:54 |
| scientes | while something like asbestos the US regulations are nutsy | Nov 14 19:55 |
| *scientes is reticulating splines | Nov 14 19:58 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Slackware-Based SlackEX Linux Now Ships with Latest Enlightenment Desktop โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144367 [https://pleroma.site/objects/496813d0-be3f-4e9c-b871-ff1313e6d254] | Nov 14 20:05 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Maui 1.2.0 Release โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144368 [https://pleroma.site/objects/99acd296-f937-4d96-8473-fd11a1754ead] | Nov 14 20:07 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: This week in KDE: Tons of improvements to our core apps โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144370 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a233aa49-267a-4fc9-8185-28781dbe8156] | Nov 14 20:12 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144369 [https://pleroma.site/objects/029fc8ad-04ed-4588-90cb-f6fcc2f0f4eb] | Nov 14 20:13 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: โYour Computer Isnโt Yours.โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144338#comment-27144 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5650ad8b-99e0-45fd-a0c1-c00d7e701801] | Nov 14 20:28 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todayโs #HowTos | #UNIX โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144371 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f41f1c01-bcd9-479f-8bc0-4ee7744350aa] | Nov 14 20:37 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #SuperProductivity is an extremely powerful To Do app for Linux โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144372 [https://pleroma.site/objects/bcc9f7f2-0e95-4bd0-b459-5838a2feb68b] | Nov 14 20:42 | |
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| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla: Tor Browser, CAs and Rust Shuffling on Microsoftโs Servers โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144374 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ff7b258e-014c-4ec0-af0c-380dd929dec9] | Nov 14 21:27 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: MicroOS Is Immutable Linux โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144375 [https://pleroma.site/objects/1068543e-e332-41da-879c-37500dfbfe23] | Nov 14 21:32 | |
| schestowitz | [19:31] <smnthermes> Use nitter.net | Nov 14 21:36 |
| schestowitz | afaik it's read-only | Nov 14 21:36 |
| schestowitz | and so I cannot check notifications there, like replies | Nov 14 21:36 |
| tdemin | schestowitz, oh, you crosspost to Twitter as well? | Nov 14 21:36 |
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| schestowitz | it's expored from diaspora | Nov 14 21:37 |
| schestowitz | since... like forever | Nov 14 21:37 |
| schestowitz | before that it was expored from identi.ca (statusnet) | Nov 14 21:37 |
| schestowitz | *exported | Nov 14 21:37 |
| schestowitz | I never posted directly to twitler | Nov 14 21:37 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers โข ๐๐ฆ๐ฉ ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ค โ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144376 [https://pleroma.site/objects/797ea41f-719a-406e-9dc0-23b1eeda87d7] | Nov 14 22:08 | |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Intel Worked to Eradicate Supposedly โOffensiveโ Words From Linux While Inserting More and More Technically Offensive DRM Into Linux (Back Doors as Well) โข ๐๐ ด๐ ฒ๐ ท๐๐ ธ๐ ถ๐ ท๐๐ โ http://techrights.org/2020/11/14/intel-linux-drm/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/e8c34326-02ba-44c1-adc8-1807143b9769] | Nov 14 22:25 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz: We'll be over 200,000 new cases per day at some point next week most likely. | Nov 14 22:45 |
| schestowitz | congrats | Nov 14 22:45 |
| schestowitz | https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/11/13/fighting-pandemic-cant-wait-inauguration-day | Nov 14 22:46 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.commondreams.org | Fighting the Pandemic Canโt Wait for Inauguration Day | Common Dreams Views | Nov 14 22:46 | |
| schestowitz | https://github.com/github/dmca/blob/master/2020/11/2020-11-09-Google.md | Nov 14 22:49 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-dmca/2020-11-09-Google.md at master ยท github/dmca ยท GitHub | Nov 14 22:49 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | Fuck Github. | Nov 14 22:55 |
| XRevan86 | Yea, but also: the DMCA law applies not only to Microsoft. | Nov 14 22:55 |
| schestowitz | decenrralise | Nov 14 22:56 |
| schestowitz | decentralise | Nov 14 22:56 |
| schestowitz | also to platforms that exercise law differently | Nov 14 22:56 |
| XRevan86 | I don't understand when was the point crossed where even the source text is considered an evil DRM-circumventing programme. | Nov 14 22:56 |
| XRevan86 | Is it by law or is it Microsoft playing it safe? | Nov 14 22:57 |
| schestowitz | "Free software is under attack and Microsoft is a prime facilitator of it (with its GitHub dominance)" | Nov 14 22:58 |
| schestowitz | doing a post about this... | Nov 14 22:58 |
| schestowitz | is Ariadne aware? | Nov 14 22:59 |
| schestowitz | we need DISTRIBUTED development | Nov 14 23:00 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: In this particular case, I'd word it like "Free software is under attack, and the centralised platform owned by Microsoft is a primary factor to it" | Nov 14 23:00 |
| schestowitz | surely that much is obvious by now | Nov 14 23:00 |
| schestowitz | I reject that working | Nov 14 23:01 |
| schestowitz | *wording | Nov 14 23:01 |
| schestowitz | GitHub is Microsoft | Nov 14 23:01 |
| schestowitz | YouTube is Google | Nov 14 23:01 |
| schestowitz | don't play along with their antitust-circumventing tricks | Nov 14 23:01 |
| schestowitz | GitHub now IS Microsoft | Nov 14 23:01 |
| schestowitz | 100% | Nov 14 23:01 |
| schestowitz | and it has a purpose.. to Microsoft | Nov 14 23:01 |
| XRevan86 | If I get it right, it's not as much about Microsoft and GitHub and more about this centralised platform they've cultivated making software on it an easy target. | Nov 14 23:02 |
| schestowitz | XRevan86: how that? http://techrights.org/2020/11/14/drm-loves-centralisation/ | Nov 14 23:02 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | [Meme] DRM Loves Wintel/Microsoft/Centralisation/Monopoly | Techrights | Nov 14 23:02 | |
| schestowitz | XRevan86: no, that too i reject | Nov 14 23:02 |
| schestowitz | it's how they may try to wage an excuse/defense | Nov 14 23:02 |
| schestowitz | like they're passive victims | Nov 14 23:02 |
| schestowitz | they know too well it was all about control all the time | Nov 14 23:02 |
| schestowitz | and recently we see them exercising that control | Nov 14 23:03 |
| schestowitz | while threatening actual users | Nov 14 23:03 |
| schestowitz | not just censorsing them | Nov 14 23:03 |
| schestowitz | also banning | Nov 14 23:03 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: GitLab.com also accepts DMCA takedown notices. It's the United States law after all. | Nov 14 23:03 |
| schestowitz | GitLab sucks also | Nov 14 23:04 |
| XRevan86 | Maybe it's more about the binary code, I need to check. | Nov 14 23:04 |
| schestowitz | f gitlab | Nov 14 23:04 |
| schestowitz | esp. if not self-hosted | Nov 14 23:04 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: It's about it being a US-hosted service. | Nov 14 23:04 |
| schestowitz | sony tried it on digg | Nov 14 23:04 |
| schestowitz | when people posted decryption hashes | Nov 14 23:04 |
| schestowitz | and then people reposted these endlessly | Nov 14 23:04 |
| schestowitz | drm is a lost cause | Nov 14 23:05 |
| schestowitz | deal with it | Nov 14 23:05 |
| schestowitz | https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/10/google-mending-another-crack-in-widevine/ | Nov 14 23:05 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-krebsonsecurity.com | Google Mending Another Crack in Widevine โ Krebs on Security | Nov 14 23:05 | |
| schestowitz | https://torrentfreak.com/google-takes-down-repositories-that-circumvent-its-widevine-drm-201113/ | Nov 14 23:05 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Google Takes Down Repositories That Circumvent its Widevine DRM * TorrentFreak | Nov 14 23:05 | |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: DRM that's broken is reduced to a "do not touch me, please" sign. | Nov 14 23:06 |
| XRevan86 | why waste processor time, just use plain text | Nov 14 23:07 |
| schestowitz | for the image? | Nov 14 23:08 |
| schestowitz | No | Nov 14 23:08 |
| schestowitz | no link | Nov 14 23:09 |
| schestowitz | no text | Nov 14 23:09 |
| XRevan86 | No, I mean on DRM | Nov 14 23:09 |
| schestowitz | it's important to show the Github logo imho | Nov 14 23:09 |
| CrystalMath | schestowitz: Biden's presidency is going to have to wait until at least inauguration day | Nov 14 23:09 |
| schestowitz | which text would not convey | Nov 14 23:09 |
| schestowitz | to show peopel the "familiar" github looks | Nov 14 23:09 |
| XRevan86 | I mean that DRM is a waste of processor time. | Nov 14 23:09 |
| schestowitz | with the real face of GitHub | Nov 14 23:09 |
| schestowitz | as oppression platform | Nov 14 23:09 |
| schestowitz | not sharing platform | Nov 14 23:09 |
| *chomwitt has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) | Nov 14 23:09 | |
| schestowitz | with many users "marked" for death | Nov 14 23:09 |
| schestowitz | CrystalMath: so Trump can do to him what Bush did to Obama | Nov 14 23:10 |
| XRevan86 | > As such, it allegedly violates section 1201 of the DMCA, an allegation that was also made against the youtube-dl code last month. | Nov 14 23:10 |
| XRevan86 | One could argue that Microsoft is willing to accept bogus takedown notices which wouldn't hold in court. | Nov 14 23:10 |
| schestowitz | crashes economy | Nov 14 23:10 |
| schestowitz | and then blame the successor | Nov 14 23:10 |
| schestowitz | XRevan86: that was noted before | Nov 14 23:10 |
| schestowitz | see ็จ็ดโผบ็ฏ็ท็ฎ็กตๆ ญๆกฃๆนฉ็ฅๆผฎๆฒๆธฏๆฏโฝฅใฑใณในๆฃๆตฏๆญ็ฎใญใทใด | Nov 14 23:11 |
| schestowitz | or even http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143596#comment-27143 | Nov 14 23:11 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Single Points of Failure and Proprietary Entrapment (Microsoft GitHub) | Tux Machines | Nov 14 23:11 | |
| schestowitz | many comments there | Nov 14 23:11 |
| schestowitz | almost nobody defended microsoft | Nov 14 23:11 |
| schestowitz | some blamed the riaa more | Nov 14 23:11 |
| schestowitz | in this case it's gafam | Nov 14 23:11 |
| schestowitz | with the takedown req | Nov 14 23:11 |
| CrystalMath | schestowitz: until january, Trump is president, and the herd immunity approach (which i back 100%) lives on | Nov 14 23:11 |
| schestowitz | lol | Nov 14 23:12 |
| CrystalMath | i just hope enough people get infected so that the fascist alternatives become impossible | Nov 14 23:12 |
| schestowitz | you also support culling many people | Nov 14 23:12 |
| schestowitz | so we know what you goal is | Nov 14 23:12 |
| CrystalMath | i'd even support culling all of them | Nov 14 23:12 |
| schestowitz | to leverage covid for depopulation | Nov 14 23:12 |
| CrystalMath | but covid can't do that :P | Nov 14 23:12 |
| CrystalMath | but also, i believe in individual freedom | Nov 14 23:12 |
| schestowitz | you are sick-minded | Nov 14 23:12 |
| schestowitz | freedom to be killed by a president | Nov 14 23:13 |
| CrystalMath | and i believe that the alternatives set a bad precedent | Nov 14 23:13 |
| schestowitz | and put in body bags by the millions | Nov 14 23:13 |
| CrystalMath | no, freedom to be killed by a virus | Nov 14 23:13 |
| schestowitz | for "freedom" | Nov 14 23:13 |
| CrystalMath | if i want to die from a virus, i should have that right | Nov 14 23:13 |
| schestowitz | people who survive it will suffer also | Nov 14 23:13 |
| schestowitz | health problems | Nov 14 23:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Amazon has some warehouse deals on a Surface Laptop 3 with a Ryzen 7. | Nov 14 23:13 |
| CrystalMath | and i don't believe in a right to not be infected, because in nature you don't get this right | Nov 14 23:13 |
| CrystalMath | but you do have the right to be infected | Nov 14 23:13 |
| schestowitz | you live in europe | Nov 14 23:13 |
| schestowitz | read up on plagues that cut like a third of the population | Nov 14 23:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I really don't give a shit if it's a "Microsoft" laptop, but I was wondering what Linux would do on itt. | Nov 14 23:13 |
| schestowitz | and what it left behind it | Nov 14 23:13 |
| CrystalMath | schestowitz: it lead to a lot of good things, such as the end of trust in religion alone | Nov 14 23:14 |
| schestowitz | might as well go with slogans like, "Hitler did nothing wrong" | Nov 14 23:14 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: You don't have the right to spread the thing. | Nov 14 23:14 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: i don't spread it | Nov 14 23:14 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: it copies itself | Nov 14 23:14 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: and uses me as a vector | Nov 14 23:14 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: it has that natural right | Nov 14 23:14 |
| CrystalMath | as a virus | Nov 14 23:14 |
| XRevan86 | people don't kill people, bullets kill people | Nov 14 23:14 |
| CrystalMath | there's an intent behind shooting | Nov 14 23:14 |
| CrystalMath | but when you're infected you can not even know | Nov 14 23:15 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: From you it sound like you're obligated to help it out | Nov 14 23:15 |
| schestowitz | ok, I'll ignore the trolling | Nov 14 23:15 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: walmart again? | Nov 14 23:15 |
| schestowitz | the black friday discount thing? | Nov 14 23:15 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: well i choose not to do that | Nov 14 23:15 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: You want to have the right to catch it unknowingly? | Nov 14 23:15 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Amazon this time. Warehouse. | Nov 14 23:15 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: right, as it's natural | Nov 14 23:15 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: those suck | Nov 14 23:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | $1499 on a Surface Laptop 3 Ryzen 7 edition with 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD. | Nov 14 23:16 |
| schestowitz | we had some whistleblowers from them | Nov 14 23:16 |
| schestowitz | almost a decade back | Nov 14 23:16 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Small scratch on the top. | Nov 14 23:16 |
| schestowitz | but that had little effect on anything | Nov 14 23:16 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: i'm not talking about human action, but rather, human surrender to nature | Nov 14 23:16 |
| schestowitz | people know how oppressed they aere | Nov 14 23:16 |
| schestowitz | but people keep buying/ordering | Nov 14 23:16 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: I want to have the right not to have to deal with this. | Nov 14 23:16 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: file a complaint to nature | Nov 14 23:16 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: put it inside your nearest tree | Nov 14 23:16 |
| CrystalMath | see if it cares | Nov 14 23:16 |
| CrystalMath | (hint: it doesn't) | Nov 14 23:17 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Nature doesn't care, but humans can act to protect each other from danger. | Nov 14 23:17 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: humans should not do that to the extent that it hurts individual rights, and forces some people to trust other people | Nov 14 23:17 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: That is perfectly natural behaviour for creatures like humans. | Nov 14 23:17 |
| CrystalMath | we're not all one organism, we're separate organisms | Nov 14 23:17 |
| CrystalMath | we compete against each other as much as we cooperate | Nov 14 23:17 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: So you're against the nature of humanity? | Nov 14 23:17 |
| CrystalMath | the victory of one is not the victory of all | Nov 14 23:18 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: A lone human is a dead human. | Nov 14 23:18 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: individual humans are separate organisms and it is natural for them to fight against others | Nov 14 23:18 |
| CrystalMath | and compete | Nov 14 23:18 |
| CrystalMath | i believe in fostering this individuality | Nov 14 23:19 |
| CrystalMath | and competition | Nov 14 23:19 |
| CrystalMath | against cooperation | Nov 14 23:19 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: If humans were to "surrender to nature" as you so desire, humans would not have existed. | Nov 14 23:19 |
| schestowitz | you also believe in unabomber's writings | Nov 14 23:19 |
| CrystalMath | of course we would, we would still evolve | Nov 14 23:19 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: that's vastly too expensive | Nov 14 23:19 |
| XRevan86 | being self-defeatist but at the same time selfish is a combination that only CrystalMath can come up with | Nov 14 23:19 |
| schestowitz | it costs more than all our PCs combined | Nov 14 23:19 |
| schestowitz | and doesn't even have much storage | Nov 14 23:20 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: well it's kinda interesting, but yeah, i believe in ruthless competition even if that means i am defeated and killed | Nov 14 23:20 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I have 512 GB on this one. | Nov 14 23:20 |
| DaemonFC[m] | More on external though. | Nov 14 23:20 |
| schestowitz | for $1499 you can get an old CAR | Nov 14 23:20 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: because i don't want to compete and win, but rather, i believe in competition as good by itself | Nov 14 23:20 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Which is an unnatural to a human sentiment %) | Nov 14 23:20 |
| kingoffrance | yeah thats about how much my old mustang cost lol | Nov 14 23:21 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: just because it would hurt me, doesn't mean that it's wrong | Nov 14 23:21 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Don't speak for us humans, Mr. Reptiloid :D | Nov 14 23:21 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: maybe it's alright for the world to go wild and start killing each other, and then killing me in the process | Nov 14 23:21 |
| CrystalMath | i'm probably very easy to kill | Nov 14 23:21 |
| XRevan86 | we know what we want better than you do | Nov 14 23:21 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: i disagree, competition is in human nature as much as cooperation | Nov 14 23:21 |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://system76.com/laptops/lemur | Nov 14 23:21 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Lemur Pro - System76 | Nov 14 23:21 | |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: i know that both must exist | Nov 14 23:21 |
| DaemonFC[m] | These run Coreboot firmware. | Nov 14 23:22 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: but i'm focusing on the competition part | Nov 14 23:22 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That's a plus. | Nov 14 23:22 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: So much so that you reject the cooperation part. | Nov 14 23:22 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: but i know it will exist | Nov 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: you filed for bankruptcy months ago | Nov 14 23:22 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: i just want to stop fascism and control | Nov 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | and yet learned nothing from it | Nov 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Mandy can lose the job any time... | Nov 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Walmart fires in the UK | Nov 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | thousands this month | Nov 14 23:22 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: it's kind of like the idea to be an extremist in order to achieve the middle ground, because others are also extremists | Nov 14 23:22 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I've recovered, and the disaster had nothing to do with a laptop. | Nov 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | 6500 IIRC | Nov 14 23:22 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Why? Don't you want it to compete with other forms of governance? | Nov 14 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Sannsburys their franchise | Nov 14 23:23 |
| schestowitz | and in US there's another lockdown coming | Nov 14 23:23 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: there won't be any other forms of governance the way we're going :( | Nov 14 23:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | <schestowitz "Mandy can lose the job any time."> Highly unlikely. | Nov 14 23:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The Governor is seeing to that. | Nov 14 23:23 |
| schestowitz | and you blasted lots of money on nonessential Microsoft crap | Nov 14 23:23 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Then it outcompeted everything else, what's there not to like | Nov 14 23:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Shutting down anything not "essential" enough again. | Nov 14 23:23 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: you trust politicians now? | Nov 14 23:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Means huge business surge for Walmart again. | Nov 14 23:23 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: well okay, but i will kill myself in that case | Nov 14 23:23 |
| schestowitz | people buy less, and less expensive items | Nov 14 23:23 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Do you want to help an underdog? That's so not in the spirit of competition. | Nov 14 23:23 |
| schestowitz | they don't buy high margin goods | Nov 14 23:23 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: so i better fight all i can for freedom | Nov 14 23:24 |
| schestowitz | Walmart will fire loads | Nov 14 23:24 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: i refuse to live in a fascist world | Nov 14 23:24 |
| schestowitz | people don't build a home from rice | Nov 14 23:24 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: so i can die fighting to stop it | Nov 14 23:24 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: There's one extremely simple rule of thumb: one's freedom ends when another's freedom begins. | Nov 14 23:24 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That's actually not what I'm seeing here. | Nov 14 23:24 |
| DaemonFC[m] | People are in Walmart spending a ton of money. | Nov 14 23:24 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Sales at this store have never been better. | Nov 14 23:24 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: it's actually anything but simple | Nov 14 23:24 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: that rule can be understood in extremely fascist and also extremely libertarian ways | Nov 14 23:25 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: That is true. | Nov 14 23:25 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: even pertaining to things like personal property, i can understand it in two ways | Nov 14 23:25 |
| XRevan86 | However, it's also why you can't just want to kill people. They don't want to die, you know. | Nov 14 23:25 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: perhaps it works at least to the exclusion of murder | Nov 14 23:26 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: but it doesn't really prevent stealing | Nov 14 23:26 |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz: The economy is not doing terrifically well, but people are still people. | Nov 14 23:26 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: which is also wrong | Nov 14 23:26 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Many of them don't even want to work, so they either won't or they'll get a job at Walmart and fuck around until they get fired. | Nov 14 23:26 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They axed people in the grocery area recently for playing on their iPhones and one of them showed up drunk. | Nov 14 23:27 |
| schestowitz | anyway, let's wait and see | Nov 14 23:27 |
| schestowitz | sounds like you spent irrationally | Nov 14 23:27 |
| schestowitz | instead of food | Nov 14 23:27 |
| schestowitz | you already rent and live on moderate means | Nov 14 23:27 |
| schestowitz | with eviction crisis coming | Nov 14 23:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Not really. | Nov 14 23:28 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: which is why i prefer an alternative rule - "coercion may not be initiated against a person or the property of a person who does not initiate coercion themself" | Nov 14 23:28 |
| schestowitz | whatever | Nov 14 23:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That's for people who are behind on their rent. | Nov 14 23:28 |
| schestowitz | as you might be | Nov 14 23:28 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: this rule is more carefully crafted | Nov 14 23:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Not with months paid in advance. | Nov 14 23:28 |
| schestowitz | if your husband loses the job | Nov 14 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Walmart UK fired 6,500 a week or so ago | Nov 14 23:28 |
| schestowitz | as we entered another lockdown | Nov 14 23:28 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: however, it disallows a lot of what we do today, like taxation without explicitly stating what the taxes will be used for | Nov 14 23:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz: I'll be around when it's Cher and the cockroaches, you know. | Nov 14 23:28 |
| schestowitz | they are firing but not disclosing it proudly | Nov 14 23:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I figure things out. | Nov 14 23:29 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Very Communist, I like it. | Nov 14 23:29 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: you did... | Nov 14 23:29 |
| schestowitz | and you got suicidal | Nov 14 23:29 |
| schestowitz | and files bankruptcy | Nov 14 23:29 |
| schestowitz | so the last time around you barely made it | Nov 14 23:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Yeah, but that's the past. | Nov 14 23:29 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: how is it communist? | Nov 14 23:29 |
| schestowitz | and managed to get a pardon on massive loans you could not feasibly keep up with | Nov 14 23:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | John lost. The state lost. | Nov 14 23:29 |
| schestowitz | whatever | Nov 14 23:30 |
| schestowitz | short-sighted | Nov 14 23:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The prosecutor is not going to be the prosecutor anymore in two weeks. | Nov 14 23:30 |
| schestowitz | we'll talk about it after the US economy collapses again | Nov 14 23:30 |
| schestowitz | the real economy | Nov 14 23:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The jury came back with an unfortunate verdict for him. | Nov 14 23:30 |
| schestowitz | not Wall Street | Nov 14 23:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I participated. | Nov 14 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Wall Street is not "the economy" | Nov 14 23:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I think Biden will triangulate better than Trump. | Nov 14 23:30 |
| schestowitz | my main laptop cost 200 pounds | Nov 14 23:31 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Because instead of sanctity of property you recognise that there is a kind of property that restricts other people. | Nov 14 23:31 |
| schestowitz | it has 8gb of ram and a good 4-core processor | Nov 14 23:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The math only requires 2/52 Republicans to pass some kind of a bill. | Nov 14 23:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And I'm seeing 3 or 4 at least. | Nov 14 23:31 |
| schestowitz | that extra grand you wasted could buy you food and 2 months' rent | Nov 14 23:31 |
| schestowitz | which you might need later | Nov 14 23:31 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: yes but the minimum of such things | Nov 14 23:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | There will be a stimulus bill of some kind next year. | Nov 14 23:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The Democrats have leverage and the upper hand now in the negotiations. | Nov 14 23:32 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: so while the principle wouldn't allow someone to keep slaves, or buy property all around someone to lock them inside, it's still libertarian | Nov 14 23:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Remember, the Republicans are down at least one Senate seat, and Trump won't be there to waffle on what he'd even agree to in the first place. | Nov 14 23:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So there will be something. | Nov 14 23:32 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: it's basically what John Locke said | Nov 14 23:32 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: i wouldn't call it communist i would just call it liberal | Nov 14 23:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Maybe schestowitz is right though. Maybe I should just keep the powder dry and run this thing into the ground first. | Nov 14 23:34 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The longer I wait, the more models go by and the bigger the upgrade will be eventually. | Nov 14 23:34 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It took a long time for even the cheap Walmart laptops to have a FHD screen, oddly. | Nov 14 23:35 |
| DaemonFC[m] | This CPU is struggling a lot with HEVC decode I noticed. | Nov 14 23:36 |
| CrystalMath | XRevan86: and fascism doesn't respect any part of it | Nov 14 23:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I wonder if there's anything to be done about that. | Nov 14 23:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz: OpenVPN was a significant drag too. | Nov 14 23:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | 3-4% for the binary while network activity was running. | Nov 14 23:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I was looking at overall CPU use with Wireguard and it's much better. Probably a lot of that is being a kernel module. | Nov 14 23:37 |
| *davisr_ (~davisr@cpe-70-92-166-130.wi.res.rr.com) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 23:38 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz: Mom did manage to help me save some stuff from before. | Nov 14 23:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | At least I got my nice new stereo, my TV, my vacuum, some lamps. I mean so it's several hundred I didn't have to spend all over again. | Nov 14 23:40 |
| *davisr__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Nov 14 23:41 | |
| schestowitz | [23:34] <DaemonFC[m]> Maybe schestowitz is right though. Maybe I should just keep the powder dry and run this thing into the ground first. | Nov 14 23:43 |
| schestowitz | said "MARISOL" | Nov 14 23:43 |
| smnthermes | > โ[20:03:56] โXRevan86โ: schestowitz: GitLab.com also accepts DMCA takedown notices. It's the United States law after all. | Nov 14 23:44 |
| smnthermes | But other countries might accept takedown requests | Nov 14 23:44 |
| XRevan86 | smnthermes: Maybe. But the core of the problem is still the US law. | Nov 14 23:45 |
| CrystalMath | https://gitlab.com/dstftw/youtube-dl | Nov 14 23:45 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Sergey M. / youtube-dl ยท GitLab | Nov 14 23:45 | |
| XRevan86 | And, as we all know, this is equivalent to the Earth law. | Nov 14 23:45 |
| CrystalMath | this is youtube-dl now | Nov 14 23:45 |
| schestowitz | DMCA is US law | Nov 14 23:46 |
| MinceR | finally | Nov 14 23:46 |
| MinceR | DMCA is an implementation of the WIPO Copyright Treaty | Nov 14 23:46 |
| schestowitz | but they are basing it on a centralised us company | Nov 14 23:46 |
| schestowitz | still doingItWrong(TM) | Nov 14 23:46 |
| schestowitz | not self-hosting | Nov 14 23:46 |
| schestowitz | not outside BidenRIAALand | Nov 14 23:47 |
| schestowitz | so they put another target on themselves, in the neighbour next door | Nov 14 23:47 |
| *zjmc_ (~jmc@139.28.218.235) has joined #techrights | Nov 14 23:49 | |
| schestowitz | zemlin, jim, master of ceremony | Nov 14 23:50 |
| -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: [Meme] DRM Loves Wintel/Microsoft/Centralisation/Monopoly โข ๐๐ ด๐ ฒ๐ ท๐๐ ธ๐ ถ๐ ท๐๐ โ http://techrights.org/2020/11/14/drm-loves-centralisation/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/26c6ad73-6556-426f-9ad9-c0a95d3a42d2] | Nov 14 23:52 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/11/13/really-really-big-deal-michigan-gov-moves-shut-down-line-5-pipeline-protect-great | Nov 14 23:57 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.commondreams.org | 'This Is a Really, Really Big Deal': Michigan Gov. Moves to Shut Down Line 5 Pipeline to Protect Great Lakes | Common Dreams News | Nov 14 23:57 | |
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