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| twitter | Here's a real hater. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=985... | Oct 07 01:30 |
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| twitter | bitter little thing, isn't he? | Oct 07 01:30 |
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| twitter | Bruce Perens on Slashdot Astroturfing http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=985543&... | Oct 07 02:15 |
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| twitter | and his personal experience from inside HP, http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9855... | Oct 07 02:17 |
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| twitter | Last quote used to update "The Troll Zoo" http://slashdot.org/~twitt... | Oct 07 02:57 |
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| twitter | Told Slashdot User to shove off. | Oct 07 03:42 |
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| twitter | Night night. | Oct 07 03:42 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: hi roy | Oct 07 06:28 |
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| schestowitz | Hey. | Oct 07 06:47 |
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| kentma | just done the digest, but I didn't see many posts - was it a quiet day, or is there a server problem? | Oct 07 06:47 |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 7 07:31:18 2008 |
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Oct 07 07:31 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged] | Oct 07 07:31 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 | Oct 07 07:31 |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Oct 07 07:31 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Oct 07 07:31 |
| schestowitz | Eric Brown and Henry Kingman are among those advertising Mono now :-( http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/... | Oct 07 07:37 |
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| kentma1 | hi? | Oct 07 07:38 |
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| schestowitz | Interesting development (Novell vs Microsoft): http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=... | Oct 07 07:43 |
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| schestowitz | I was also leaked some details yesterday about a Novell trial | Oct 07 07:43 |
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| kentma1 | schestowitz: did you reply to my question about the digest? I seemed to lose the connection... | Oct 07 07:48 |
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| schestowitz | I lost the connection about half an hour ago. I didn't' see the question, no... | Oct 07 07:53 |
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| kentma1 | ok: when doing the digest this morning, I noted that there were few posts from your good self. Was this by choice, or was there a technical problem? | Oct 07 07:55 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, on Sunday? | Oct 07 07:58 |
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| schestowitz | "Controversial"? < http://www1.umn.edu/urelate/newsservic... > That's the /only/ word that they use repeatedly to describe it? Says a lot about the author. | Oct 07 08:05 |
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| schestowitz | "Nicolas Sarkozy announced yesterday that he faxed on Friday evening to the President of the Commission (news piece in French), Jose-Manuel Barroso, and asked him to reject the Bono/Cohn-Bendit/Roithova amendment recently adopted by 88% of the voting Members of the European Parliament. Such an initiative from Mr. Sarkozy is testimony to his deep concern: the College (the Commission as a whole) does not seem to be ready to reject th | Oct 07 08:32 |
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| schestowitz | e amendment." | Oct 07 08:32 |
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| schestowitz | "As I already analyzed, this amendment did not modify the orientation of the Commission proposal, it only provided a needed reminder of some fundamental rights and needs of due process in face of tentatives from a few interest groups and the French presidency to weaken them." < http://paigrain.debatpublic.net/?p=169 > People might be right when they say he's a nei-fascist. | Oct 07 08:32 |
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| schestowitz | BBC's latest PR charade? http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/1... | Oct 07 08:35 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202... "For those of us who've spent most of our careers as clients, it seemed pretty obvious that the legal business was in an unsustainable boom." | Oct 07 08:44 |
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| schestowitz | How predictable that was: http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/6/50999 "Bailout not Working-Panic [...] The bailout package passed and signed into law as a fast track measure doesn't seem to be working, as investors are selling and indices are dropping today." | Oct 07 08:48 |
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| schestowitz | Alex Brown threatens that I would be sued < http://www.adjb.net/post/Poetry-copyright-vi... >. I've left a comment there. Maybe you can too. | Oct 07 12:02 |
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| schestowitz | Voices of innova~1: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/07/... | Oct 07 12:27 |
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| zoobab | http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-95225/a... | Oct 07 12:37 |
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| zoobab | .aspx -> Alex likes Grosoft solutions | Oct 07 12:38 |
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| zoobab | http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-94365/fin... | Oct 07 12:42 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Oct 07 12:43 |
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| schestowitz | I'm doing a post now | Oct 07 12:43 |
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| zoobab | http://paigrain.debatpublic.net/?p=170 | Oct 07 12:45 |
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| schestowitz | Did you see the one I posted earlier? | Oct 07 12:52 |
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| schestowitz | http://paigrain.debatpublic.net/?p=169 | Oct 07 12:52 |
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| schestowitz | Democracy? Naaa... forget about it. Sarko knows something better. "As I already analyzed, this amendment did not modify the orientation of the Commission proposal, it only provided a needed reminder of some fundamental rights and needs of due process in face of tentatives from a few interest groups and the French presidency to weaken them." | Oct 07 12:52 |
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| zoobab | Thanks for the dinner: | Oct 07 13:03 |
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| zoobab | http://homembit.com/2008/10/meeting-of-jtc1sc34-in-... | Oct 07 13:03 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/0... | Oct 07 13:09 |
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| zoobab | We should use it more often | Oct 07 13:17 |
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| zoobab | :-) | Oct 07 13:17 |
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| zoobab | Ala MS, via proxies | Oct 07 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | I think I might adopt a GL-like policy and start kicking out trolls. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/07/novellvideo-y... | Oct 07 13:20 |
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| schestowitz | We never deleted comments (other than spam). | Oct 07 13:21 |
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| schestowitz | Top result: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient... | Oct 07 13:30 |
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| twitter | Who is this Alex Brown clown? If what you have done is not in line with "You are about to download a document made available to you exclusively for standardization purposes and which is protected by copyright law in your country." I'm not sure what is. | Oct 07 14:15 |
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| schestowitz | Alex Brown is the convenor of MOOX.. | Oct 07 14:16 |
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| schestowitz | Be sure to learn about his role 'selling' OOXML to the British Library. I included 21 links here < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/07... >, but only a few of those show you what he did in the UK. He may have subverted the BSI, but we don't know for sure. | Oct 07 14:17 |
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| twitter | Just the type to SLAPP. Wonder if you being fed with a set up. | Oct 07 14:19 |
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| twitter | Looking at the rest of your links. Ugh, the copyright warriors are all over it with their usual "someone's gotta pay for dis" Bull Shit. | Oct 07 14:21 |
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| twitter | "Respect for IP" it shows just how warped they want "standards" to be. | Oct 07 14:21 |
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| twitter | Free software has show exactly how wrong they are. Things are more standard and easier to use when they are free. | Oct 07 14:22 |
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| twitter | How perverse it would be if you needed to pay big $$ to M$ for spec just to read government documents, but that is exactly what OOXML is all about. | Oct 07 14:23 |
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| twitter | "Cry for M$ and ISO, they are the VICTIMS OF VICIOUS STUDENTS AND BLOGGERS" | Oct 07 14:24 |
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| *MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | Oct 07 14:24 |
| schestowitz | zoobab: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0... | Oct 07 14:37 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: see http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-95225/alex-bro... (funny image) | Oct 07 14:37 |
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| cj | anything new here? | Oct 07 14:39 |
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| zoobab | "Now the dust has settled, it turns out the rubber-stamp accusation is more justly levelled at ODF." | Oct 07 14:40 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: soucrce? | Oct 07 14:41 |
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| schestowitz | "At a meeting in Korea last week, the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) committee for document standards, SC 34, issued a liaison statement to Oasis, the body that created ODF. It requested an "alignment" of maintenance of ODF between the work done at Oasis and that within ISO. | Oct 07 14:41 |
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| schestowitz | " | Oct 07 14:41 |
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| schestowitz | It's like watching crime... live on television. And the world is asleep... | Oct 07 14:42 |
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| zoobab | ISO is not relevant anymore for IT standards | Oct 07 14:46 |
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| zoobab | and there should be an official day to bury them :-) | Oct 07 14:47 |
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| schestowitz | There's the Boycott ISO site. | Oct 07 14:49 |
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| schestowitz | Let them vent out anger, that's no reason to worry. | Oct 07 14:49 |
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| schestowitz | They just 'protect' their jobs. Frost, Bryden and the other standards 'chefs' | Oct 07 14:50 |
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| schestowitz | ISO and Microsoft can routinely find sympathy and comfort in one another's shoulder because they are both corrup[t|tible]. | Oct 07 14:51 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.zdnet.co.uk/talkback/0,1000001... "It would be interesting to know how many of the 15 national standards bodies were represented by Microsoft employees, but ISO do not publish this information..." | Oct 07 14:54 |
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| schestowitz | Watson is too polite: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/talkback/0,1000... | Oct 07 14:56 |
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| schestowitz | And http://www.zdnet.co.uk/talkback/0,1... : "I thought, with the fiasco regarding OOXML and Microsoft, that ISO had shot their creditability in the foot. It might have only exposed procedures that quietly went on for years but when the approval of any standard hinges not on the standard but on the procedural processes surrounding the decision making, it all becomes a bit pointless and irrelevant." | Oct 07 14:56 |
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| cj | schestowitz: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2 | Oct 07 15:00 |
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| cj | don't miss directhex's response: | Oct 07 15:01 |
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| cj | http://lists.debian.org/debian-de... | Oct 07 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | You're here spying, aren't you, Microsoft employee 'cj'? | Oct 07 15:02 |
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| zoobab | microsoft is having their spies | Oct 07 15:03 |
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| cj | schestowitz: spying? | Oct 07 15:03 |
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| cj | schestowitz: you know I've been here longer than you. don't be silly. :) | Oct 07 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | Trying to shove patent poison on behalf of his employer (assisting it at least). | Oct 07 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | There are too many Microsofters inside GNOME, pretending to be FOSS people but actually serving other interests in this CROSS-PLATFORM DE | Oct 07 15:03 |
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| schestowitz | Why are you *here*, Microsoft employee cj? | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| cj | schestowitz: don't be silly. you and I both know that the U.S. patent system is broken. It needs to be fixed. The entire US political system is tilted toward corporatism. I think that it's better to get inside and change from there rather than shouting insults from the sidelines :) | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| schestowitz | Do you enjoy seeing your employer vilified? | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| cj | schestowitz: I'm not a Microsoft employee. Get it right. | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, you are. | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| cj | nopers. | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| schestowitz | They pay you. | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| cj | Sakson & Taylor | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| schestowitz | That's Microsoft | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| cj | they pay S&T. S&T pays me. | Oct 07 15:04 |
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| schestowitz | You are paid by Microsoft. | Oct 07 15:05 |
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| cj | nope. You work for Microsoft in that case | Oct 07 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | The money comes from them. | Oct 07 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | Do I need to show people your LinkedIn profile? | Oct 07 15:05 |
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| cj | yes. the more exposure the better :) | Oct 07 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | You proudly proclaim to be a Microsoft consultant or something like this. | Oct 07 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | You help develop their products. | Oct 07 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | Must be bummers with that hire freeze, eh? Ain't that a bi*ch. ;-) ;-) | Oct 07 15:06 |
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| schestowitz | *hiring | Oct 07 15:06 |
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| cj | yes, consultant. not employee. | Oct 07 15:06 |
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| cj | schestowitz: *shrug* it'll be tough, but we'll do alright. | Oct 07 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | You work on their products, indirewctly. | Oct 07 15:07 |
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| schestowitz | Don't think people are silly. | Oct 07 15:07 |
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| twitter | cj: from your link, " it's a clone, albeit one officially endorsed by those being cloned." | Oct 07 15:07 |
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| cj | twitter: a'yup | Oct 07 15:07 |
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| twitter | The author misspelled "trap" | Oct 07 15:07 |
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| cj | twitter: the mono folks are working with MS to benefit the F/OSS community. onoz! | Oct 07 15:08 |
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| twitter | business method patents benefit no one | Oct 07 15:08 |
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| schestowitz | cj, I never was involved in any way in getting people to leave this channel, but your presence here is not intended to help. | Oct 07 15:08 |
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| twitter | M$ has nothing left but threats, cj. | Oct 07 15:08 |
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| schestowitz | By accepting and promoting Microsoft's sagenda you help them loot the industry. | Oct 07 15:08 |
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| cj | I believe differently | Oct 07 15:09 |
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| *libervisco_ is now known as libervisco | Oct 07 15:09 |
| schestowitz | You perfume it to yourself. | Oct 07 15:09 |
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| schestowitz | Like Myhrcold and other crooks who ruin the industry and convince themselves that they help | Oct 07 15:09 |
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| cj | schestowitz: as does rms: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/01/r... | Oct 07 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | Trust me, I know more than I can write in public (here and elsewhere) | Oct 07 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is, as has always been, an orgy and money and influence. Partners fit in too and that's why you're not trusted. | Oct 07 15:10 |
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| cj | self-censorship? | Oct 07 15:10 |
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| cj | anyway... | Oct 07 15:10 |
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| *cj < commute & | Oct 07 15:11 |
| *schestowitz back to Firefox | Oct 07 15:11 |
| twitter | you are entitled to your beliefs, cj. Speaking of perfume, my six year old girl believes in the tooth fairy. She has good evidence too. | Oct 07 15:12 |
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| twitter | When she loses a tooth, she puts it under her pillow. When she wakes up she finds perfumed money, a miracle! She does not really understand what we do to earn that money but it helps her get over the gruesome facts of her situation. | Oct 07 15:16 |
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| twitter | Is that what it's like to work for M$? | Oct 07 15:16 |
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| schestowitz | Less sales for SAP ( SAP shares tumble after sales warning < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/... >) is more exploration of FOSS. | Oct 07 15:32 |
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| twitter | Hey, look. The markets are sitting flat, +/- 1%, but M$ is down 3%. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT | Oct 07 15:36 |
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| twitter | Novell is down twice market too, ha ha. | Oct 07 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | Quite a tumble. | Oct 07 15:38 |
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| twitter | Yeah, that's roughly six billion dollars. | Oct 07 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | Not from from a 2-year low. | Oct 07 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | Despite the buybacks, which is why these pictures mean nothing. | Oct 07 15:42 |
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| schestowitz | http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/2... | Oct 07 15:43 |
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| schestowitz | You can see how they got nervous when MSFT almost fell below $2 and then bought their own stock like no time before. | Oct 07 15:43 |
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| schestowitz | *$20 , not $2 | Oct 07 15:43 |
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| twitter | $40 billion is like never before too, especially the part about going into debt to do it. | Oct 07 15:49 |
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| twitter | Sooner or later, it's fail for them. | Oct 07 15:49 |
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| twitter | AMD news, http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:AMD | Oct 07 16:17 |
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| twitter | interesting. gotta go for a while. | Oct 07 16:17 |
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| twitter | 23.8, now that's a tumble http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT | Oct 07 17:29 |
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| twitter | Sweaty B is going to be Angry B | Oct 07 17:30 |
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| twitter | ut oh, the rest of the market is following ... | Oct 07 17:32 |
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| rick_c | link to a torrent with the files, please? | Oct 07 18:32 |
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| schestowitz | rick_c: sorry, there's no torrent and I can't encourage that type of stuff. | Oct 07 18:34 |
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| MinceR | why can't you? | Oct 07 18:34 |
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| schestowitz | ISO and the cronies. | Oct 07 18:35 |
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| rick_c | yeah, yeah .. | Oct 07 18:35 |
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| rick_c | anyone? | Oct 07 18:35 |
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| schestowitz | I don't need lawsuits, so people should look for other sources that spread it. | Oct 07 18:35 |
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| rick_c | sure | Oct 07 18:35 |
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| schestowitz | BoycottNovell was not the only site with a copy, but someone put it in Slashdot, so we got tons of attention, which is unwanted given how ISIO behaves. | Oct 07 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | I assume that Alex Brown knows about ISO where he is. | Oct 07 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | So I won't provoke further. | Oct 07 18:36 |
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| MinceR | ic | Oct 07 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | Besides, ISO is up to new dirty tricks. I'd rather cover these. | Oct 07 18:37 |
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| rick_c | go for it | Oct 07 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: yes, that's very low for MSFT and they already do everything they can (reaching for a /loan/). I've just had a chat with a mate at the gym. For many years China was producing and the US just con sumed and ammassed a debt of 10 or so trillion dollars. Now the currency balance changes and it's time to pay debt. it's akin to the living-oblivious-about-tomorrow lifestyle you find in junk food, smoking, and technlogy that emit | Oct 07 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | rradiation. | Oct 07 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | *pardon the many typos. I try to catch up with stuff... | Oct 07 18:38 |
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| schestowitz | http://finance.google.com/finance?q=novl "Mkt Cap: 1.59B" | Oct 07 18:39 |
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| schestowitz | Just yesterday I wrote that it approached 1.6 | Oct 07 18:39 |
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| schestowitz | Novell ws worth 2.5 not so long ago. | Oct 07 18:39 |
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| twitter | Apparently, it was not. | Oct 07 18:40 |
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| twitter | :) | Oct 07 18:40 |
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| schestowitz | Well, "based on future returns and all" | Oct 07 18:40 |
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| schestowitz | Living off what you 'will' have (or believe you'll have), not what you actually have. | Oct 07 18:40 |
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| twitter | How many $300 M injections can M$ give them in a year? | Oct 07 18:41 |
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| twitter | Not many now that M$ themselves is going into debt. | Oct 07 18:41 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2007/1... | Oct 07 18:41 |
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| schestowitz | "“Well, I doubt, I tend… I don’t know who reported on that, but I saw something where they say, you know, this probably isn’t due to Novell massaging its numbers around Linux, which is what Dana Blakenhorn at ZDNet had claimed, I mean, I can tell you absolutely for a verifiable fact for that Novell does do that, but then again everybody does that. So… I’ve.. I’ve got the sales guys at Novell telling me that, that they | Oct 07 18:41 |
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| schestowitz | do this..." | Oct 07 18:41 |
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| schestowitz | Off the future. Remember that. | Oct 07 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | Novell: "Linux (*Ahem* /which/ Linux?) is the future, so we do well" | Oct 07 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | Like the girt who says one day she'll marry a millionaire, so she spends and spends and spends. "More credit cards, more shoes, new Pontiac.." | Oct 07 18:43 |
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| schestowitz | More of yesterday's news: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/i... "Microsoft contest hacked and defaced" | Oct 07 18:44 |
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| *rick_c has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client") | Oct 07 18:45 |
| twitter | Pontiac, from 90 to 10 in 8 years flat, http://finance.google.com/finance?q=GM | Oct 07 18:45 |
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| schestowitz | Ick. UK to run out of electricity this winter < http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqu... >. Electricity. I need that thing. | Oct 07 18:45 |
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| twitter | buy some solar panels ... does your university co-generate? | Oct 07 18:46 |
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| twitter | BRLUG chatted up low power computing. It's that hurricane thing, where all of the power goes away. | Oct 07 18:47 |
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| schestowitz | ..Fat cats with plasma TVs ;-) | Oct 07 18:47 |
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| schestowitz | How about an OLPC XO with a crack? | Oct 07 18:48 |
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| schestowitz | crank | Oct 07 18:48 |
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| twitter | the walk away conclusion was a 3.5 watt laptop and solar panels was a nice combination | Oct 07 18:48 |
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| schestowitz | It does exist. Does it power the GPU for Aero and restrictions for Vista? | Oct 07 18:49 |
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| twitter | a person can generate about 200 watts using a bike on a stand, that might make Vista work | Oct 07 18:49 |
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| twitter | on a 3.5 watt computer | Oct 07 18:49 |
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| twitter | My computing is not so slim, I'd need more than one bike. | Oct 07 18:51 |
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| twitter | Wow, M$ came close to their 52 week low. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT | Oct 07 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | Something odd happened this afternoon in Thunderbird and Firefox. | Oct 07 18:52 |
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| twitter | want to bet they break it tomorrow? | Oct 07 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | Suddently my themes in Thunderbird won't work and some extensions too. Same in Firefox. | Oct 07 18:53 |
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| twitter | that's strange. I don't use themes, so I would not notice. | Oct 07 18:53 |
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| *libervisco has quit (Connection timed out) | Oct 07 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Well, I'll just use that as an excuse to get FF3 | Oct 07 18:54 |
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| schestowitz | Many plugins gained compatibility with FF3 by now anyway. | Oct 07 18:56 |
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| twitter | Hmmm, what is Iceweasel 3.0 based on? | Oct 07 18:56 |
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| trmanco | I know, I know, I said that -rc8 was supposed to be the last -rc, and that | Oct 07 19:06 |
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| trmanco | I'd release 2.6.27 this weekend. | Oct 07 19:06 |
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| trmanco | I lied. Sue me. I merged two subtle regression fixes today, and while both | Oct 07 19:06 |
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| trmanco | looked perfectly fine and had been tested by the people involved in the | Oct 07 19:06 |
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| trmanco | regressions, I just couldn't bring myself to then just slap a "v2.6.27" on | Oct 07 19:06 |
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| trmanco | it without some more testing. | Oct 07 19:06 |
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| trmanco | :-) | Oct 07 19:07 |
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| trmanco | cool | Oct 07 19:07 |
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| trmanco | Linus has a blog | Oct 07 19:07 |
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| trmanco | http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/ | Oct 07 19:07 |
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| *mib_9gas07 (i=86c0fa0a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d34e9e6313f4c2b0) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 07 19:07 |
| *mib_9gas07 has quit (Client Quit) | Oct 07 19:07 |
| trmanco | http://groups.google.com/group/fa... | Oct 07 19:09 |
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| trmanco | more "If things go well, I might do a final release mid-week, otherwise it's | Oct 07 19:10 |
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| trmanco | "next weekend" again." | Oct 07 19:10 |
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| schestowitz | First post quite a while ago | Oct 07 19:11 |
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| schestowitz | I thought the mailing list was his 'blog' | Oct 07 19:11 |
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| trmanco | lol | Oct 07 19:11 |
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| trmanco | and it probably is | Oct 07 19:11 |
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| *moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 07 19:16 |
| schestowitz | I think my mozilla profile is b0rked because of legacy extensions. | Oct 07 19:16 |
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| trmanco | :| | Oct 07 19:17 |
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| trmanco | I only use like 5-5 extensions | Oct 07 19:17 |
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| trmanco | 5-6* | Oct 07 19:17 |
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| trmanco | about 3 of them are dictionaries | Oct 07 19:17 |
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| schestowitz | Let me try to restrart the session (not that it would make a difference. BRB | Oct 07 19:18 |
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| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 7 19:18:23 2008 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 7 19:22:35 2008 |
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Oct 07 19:22 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged] | Oct 07 19:22 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008 | Oct 07 19:22 |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Oct 07 19:22 |
| -NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz. | Oct 07 19:22 |
| *services. sets mode +e schestowitz | Oct 07 19:22 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Oct 07 19:22 |
| trmanco | "The results of the testing indicate Linux is approximately 8% faster than | Oct 07 19:22 |
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| trmanco | FreeBSD on raw I/O, however, the convoluted VFS in Linux is up to 5% | Oct 07 19:22 |
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| trmanco | slower than FreeBSD overall on VFS user space operations with forenfs." | Oct 07 19:22 |
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| schestowitz | RESOLVED! | Oct 07 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | Just reinstalling it did the trick for Firefox. Now let's try TB. | Oct 07 19:35 |
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| trmanco | how to you make those well looking quotes on usenet? | Oct 07 19:37 |
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| trmanco | are they from thunderbird ? | Oct 07 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | No, KNode has a fuction | Oct 07 19:40 |
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| trmanco | ok | Oct 07 19:40 |
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| schestowitz | Highlight text, then ALT+T+B | Oct 07 19:40 |
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| twitter | intersting | Oct 07 19:41 |
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| twitter | bad news is supposed to come at the end of the week, isn't it? | Oct 07 19:41 |
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| twitter | ``the downside risks'' for growth have increased." http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p... | Oct 07 19:42 |
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| twitter | they put "increased growth" into a statement announcing a depression. ha ha | Oct 07 19:42 |
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| twitter | ding, ding, ding 52 week low busted. 23.42 and going down. http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT | Oct 07 19:44 |
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| twitter | of course, freefall http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:NOVL | Oct 07 19:45 |
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| twitter | Have I shared this one yet? http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213805 | Oct 07 19:47 |
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| twitter | gotta love the title of the article, " Slavish reporters join Microsoft in cloud cuckoo land" | Oct 07 19:47 |
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| schestowitz | Is that the guy who criticised the BBC? | Oct 07 19:53 |
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| schestowitz | Wow. Novell down almost 10% | Oct 07 19:58 |
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| schestowitz | Brutal. Market cap almost $1.5B | Oct 07 19:59 |
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| trmanco | http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2008/10/wha... | Oct 07 20:02 |
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| trmanco | oh great | Oct 07 20:05 |
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| trmanco | Additional new features in Mono 2.0 are said to include: | Oct 07 20:05 |
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| trmanco | * Easier installation -- one-click installation for SUSE Linux Enterprise and openSUSE | Oct 07 20:05 |
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| trmanco | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS823... | Oct 07 20:06 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/0... | Oct 07 20:08 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: I'll write about it on Saturday. | Oct 07 20:08 |
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| trmanco | ok | Oct 07 20:09 |
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| trmanco | my point is that they only offer a one click installation for Suse and opensuse... what about the other famous distros | Oct 07 20:10 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: what distros. Novell *is* Linux. Mono is Linux is Linux is GNOME. | Oct 07 20:11 |
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| schestowitz | If they can make Mono more widespread, which is what they to achieve with sponsorship and a roadmap, they hope to have more control over it, for legal and technical reasons. | Oct 07 20:12 |
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| schestowitz | Mono is about Novell/Microsoft 'Linux' | Oct 07 20:13 |
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| trmanco | ok | Oct 07 20:13 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: Carla never agreed with me on this one, e.g. in LXer. | Oct 07 20:14 |
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| trmanco | the article caught my attention on the first 2-3 paragraphs, but got uninteresting from then | Oct 07 20:16 |
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| schestowitz | I still haven't ficed my Thunderbird issue... :-( http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker... | Oct 07 20:17 |
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| trmanco | oh great | Oct 07 20:19 |
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| trmanco | looks like I'm going to b stuck with TB 2 for another year or so :| | Oct 07 20:19 |
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| schestowitz | TB2 is good. Well... I just don't understand why it disabled plugins at the same time as FF.. | Oct 07 20:20 |
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| trmanco | http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Simp... | Oct 07 20:20 |
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| trmanco | can't trust alexa | Oct 07 20:20 |
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| schestowitz | Alexa is Win/IE | Oct 07 20:21 |
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| trmanco | my website is growing in visits but my alexa rank for some reason is falling | Oct 07 20:21 |
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| schestowitz | I used to have A9, but Microsoft shut it dows. It did Alexa with Firefox | Oct 07 20:21 |
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| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archiv... | Oct 07 20:22 |
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| trmanco | I use alexas extension so that I can have an idea of how popular the sites I visit are | Oct 07 20:22 |
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| schestowitz | Use Netcraft | Oct 07 20:23 |
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| schestowitz | schestowitz.com and BN are around 4000th; Groklaw around 1200th | Oct 07 20:23 |
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| schestowitz | Alexa is off the chart because it's Win+IE+spyware | Oct 07 20:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2005/05/24/fi... | Oct 07 20:24 |
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| trmanco | thanks | Oct 07 20:25 |
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| *jose__ (n=jose@adsl-233-170-54.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 07 20:26 |
| schestowitz | Hi, jose__ | Oct 07 20:26 |
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| jose__ | hello | Oct 07 20:26 |
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| jose__ | check out the two links here: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.ph... | Oct 07 20:27 |
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| jose__ | each of them cover the value of having source code and mindshare created for Microsoft technologies.. | Oct 07 20:28 |
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| jose__ | for example, mono is not mentioned, but it makes Microsoft's life much easier if we make FOSS with it. | Oct 07 20:28 |
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| jose__ | it's one step of many to try and survive and/or bury/disembowel/neuter/etc Linux | Oct 07 20:29 |
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| jose__ | they need people, in particular us foss people that are somewhat unreachable.. | Oct 07 20:30 |
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| jose__ | to use dotnet, ooxml, etc. | Oct 07 20:30 |
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| schestowitz | Good comment | Oct 07 20:30 |
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| jose__ | yes | Oct 07 20:30 |
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| schestowitz | I need to sort out my Thunderbird. :-( It's bothering me not to have some pluygins. | Oct 07 20:31 |
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| jose__ | roy, I had found some good lines, so I will post.. they will come from one or the other, I may not specify. | Oct 07 20:42 |
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| schestowitz | High five | Oct 07 20:42 |
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| schestowitz | It's fixed now. Here's the weird thng. | Oct 07 20:42 |
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| schestowitz | The new version of TB (I think) used process thunderbird, but I had thunderbird-bin running in the BG even after I restarted KDE!! (Weird, I know). | Oct 07 20:43 |
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| jose__ | high five | Oct 07 20:43 |
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| schestowitz | That blasting issue with FF and TB burned like 1.5 hours of my time today. :-( | Oct 07 20:43 |
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| schestowitz | Of course, mom and pop would just reboot the PC and solve this in 5 mins. :-( | Oct 07 20:44 |
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| schestowitz | It's bad when you assume problems are more complicated than they really are. | Oct 07 20:44 |
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| jose__ | knowledge comes from strange places and can server you when you least expect it | Oct 07 20:44 |
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| schestowitz | Now I can read my encrypted E-mails to catch up (I didn't have the extension temporarily) | Oct 07 20:45 |
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| jose__ | "The bad news is that NT is not going to go away, and the chances are you will have to come to grips with it in the not too distant future. " | Oct 07 20:45 |
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| jose__ | note the inevitability theme | Oct 07 20:45 |
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| schestowitz | Source? | Oct 07 20:45 |
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| jose__ | "it's not going to go away" | Oct 07 20:45 |
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| jose__ | the sunsite link from the comment link posted earlier | Oct 07 20:45 |
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| jose__ | http://sunsite.uakom.sk/sunw... | Oct 07 20:46 |
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| schestowitz | "Better UNIX than UNIX"? | Oct 07 20:46 |
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| schestowitz | Vapourware classic. | Oct 07 20:46 |
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| jose__ | novell to world: Microsoft and dotnet are not going to go away | Oct 07 20:46 |
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| jose__ | it's hard to resist getting familiar with something that is not going to go away.. you can't get more career sure than "not going to go away" | Oct 07 20:47 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.ibtimes.com/prnews/2008... (they seem like a nice company that helps many causes) | Oct 07 20:47 |
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| jose__ | whether it's your third, fourth, or first option.. "not going to go away" means it has to be an option | Oct 07 20:47 |
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| schestowitz | Installfests in particular. | Oct 07 20:48 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: good point, I hear that a lot. Tell NOVL (down 10% today) that MSFT too is losing it (new 52-week low) | Oct 07 20:48 |
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| schestowitz | My concern is that boith FOSS and American blobs will get replaced by uber-s/w from the east. | Oct 07 20:49 |
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| schestowitz | The Chinese have some totally impressive office suites that we in the west hardly know at this point. And with the depression coming, there's a shift of power, as much as I dread it. | Oct 07 20:49 |
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| schestowitz | More Microsoft in Novell's management: " Justin Steinman, erstwhile marketing director for Novell's open-source business, just got an upgrade to vice president, Solution and Product Marketing at Novell;" http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10058696-16.html | Oct 07 20:52 |
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| schestowitz | I'm still yearning to find out who -- if anyone -- funded this thing: < http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-10060242-16.html > | Oct 07 20:57 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/08/trust... | Oct 07 20:57 |
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| schestowitz | The MAFIAA is attacking USENET some more (not just the "child pron" excuse): "Comcast is just the latest of the large ISPs to buckle under to MAFIAA pressure from the music and movie cartels, but that doesn't mean that they deserve to get away with this." http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/new... | Oct 07 20:59 |
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| jose__ | what aspect of the matt asay arti grabs you? | Oct 07 21:01 |
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| schestowitz | BN references in Heise: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/ISO-Spezifikation... | Oct 07 21:01 |
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| schestowitz | *referenced | Oct 07 21:01 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: someone from a university sent this to me with concern that the study contains the message that community work does not work. | Oct 07 21:01 |
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| jose__ | that artic would attract "high caliber" developers to foss | Oct 07 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | They can use that to claim that corporations rule code. There's also the implicit suggestion there which Asay parrots in his E-mails to me _DESPITE_ the fact that like 70% of the work of KDE is volunteer work! | Oct 07 21:02 |
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| schestowitz | It's easy to write a thesis to just support a hypothesis that some company funds to support. It could go either way. | Oct 07 21:03 |
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| jose__ | it can helps add legitimacy to foss companies | Oct 07 21:03 |
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| jose__ | before wall street and investors | Oct 07 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | It also discourages non-commercial developers from joining. | Oct 07 21:03 |
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| jose__ | corps like to buy things, yes. that is why they pay. | Oct 07 21:03 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: maybe so. I just heard different stories about it and told not to give exposure to this thesis. | Oct 07 21:04 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: Many corps will need to cut down spendings. | Oct 07 21:04 |
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| jose__ | an arti saying that community is a major part as well would too serve a purpose | Oct 07 21:04 |
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| schestowitz | SAP collapsed, Microsoft is falling and Novell... boy, is it falling today. | Oct 07 21:04 |
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| jose__ | i skipped that arti, btw. I actually expected a bit worse. | Oct 07 21:04 |
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| schestowitz | If this carries on, Novell becomes an acquisition target. | Oct 07 21:05 |
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| jose__ | which market are you looking at since nyse closed | Oct 07 21:05 |
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| jose__ | is the sap ticker sap? | Oct 07 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | Closed when? Minuted ago? | Oct 07 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | It fell yesterday, I think. | Oct 07 21:05 |
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| schestowitz | They won't meet expectations. Microsoft will disappoint for the third quarter in a row. | Oct 07 21:05 |
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| jose__ | it closed 1 hour ago.. but after market lasts for 3 more | Oct 07 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft reports on the 23rd, IIRC. | Oct 07 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | July and April were very bad. Profits fell in April and in July it fell 6% in one day. | Oct 07 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | My friend who predicated these problems thinks the US will go on another war to fuel its economy. | Oct 07 21:07 |
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| schestowitz | He thinks it'll be iran. | Oct 07 21:07 |
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| jose__ | hopefully that is not set in stone | Oct 07 21:07 |
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| jose__ | there are other ways to recover | Oct 07 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | No, I don't think it is. | Oct 07 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | He's more of a politics buff, so I trust him on some stuff. | Oct 07 21:08 |
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| jose__ | the war worked because the gov got tough with private citizens and forced certain things.. | Oct 07 21:08 |
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| jose__ | no one likes to be forced. war makes it easier | Oct 07 21:08 |
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| jose__ | i'm thinking of wwII | Oct 07 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, that too. | Oct 07 21:08 |
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| jose__ | there of course, there was most certainly events going on | Oct 07 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | Inflation was battled when the Germans went to war, or so I'm told.. | Oct 07 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | Which is why the depression scares me a bit. McCain is not to be trusted. | Oct 07 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | The Republicans + Cronies accumulated wealth for 8 years and now they exhaust the toxic fuel. | Oct 07 21:10 |
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| jose__ | hyperinflation.. basically difficulties at home make it easier to do things like improve your army and image and beat up others..especially if you have leaders and some history that blames others for the problems you are experiencing | Oct 07 21:10 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: they already blame the Dems for the depression. Yes, they blame Clinton. *rolls eyes* | Oct 07 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | Back to Bush senior, all you have is a war to defend oil in the gulf. War, war, war. | Oct 07 21:11 |
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| jose__ | oil is a big issue | Oct 07 21:11 |
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| jose__ | we will pay one way or other for ignoring our responsibility to seek alt energy sources | Oct 07 21:12 |
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| schestowitz | SAP says it is hurting: http://feeds.theinquirer.net/c/554/f/7127/s... "Get out zer punzers!" | Oct 07 21:12 |
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| jose__ | during times of plenty and peach | Oct 07 21:12 |
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| jose__ | peace | Oct 07 21:12 |
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| jose__ | companies cookie jar account.. and then conveniently have a major financial turmoil to let them off the hook.. these people sync up. | Oct 07 21:13 |
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| jose__ | jack jack jack up and then release | Oct 07 21:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-95... "The company from Redmond is heavily investing in the ISO SC34 committee. Thanks to a brazilian blogger who manage to shed some light on what was going on in there, we hear now that Microsoft Korea was paying for dinner. " | Oct 07 21:15 |
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| jose__ | sync up .. i mean that they see which way the wind is really blowing and sync for maximum bang and bust along with others.. of course, the economy is interdependent so if you don't sync, you miss out on opportunities | Oct 07 21:15 |
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| schestowitz | Free as in free lunch. | Oct 07 21:15 |
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| jose__ | lot's at stake here for Microsoft | Oct 07 21:16 |
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| jose__ | Novell conveniently pushing ooxml | Oct 07 21:16 |
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| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Oct 07 21:18 |
| schestowitz | The Microsoft "hAl" shill tries to encourage attacks against me: http://www.adjb.net/post/Poetry-... | Oct 07 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | Still that bunch of Microsoft cronies grouping together hoping to share Microsoft revenue and have no shame about endorsing bribery, sabotage, and so forth,. | Oct 07 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: Novell needs to keep Microsoft happy in order to received a lifeline. | Oct 07 21:21 |
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| schestowitz | Unlike Red Hat, it maintains its 'fat supply' from stuff like Netware, which is dying. So it can't swap proprietary with FOSS fast enough. | Oct 07 21:22 |
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| zoobab | hAl is back | Oct 07 21:24 |
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| jose__ | the other day i was thinking that they don't want to swap proprietary out. | Oct 07 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: yes, watch them go "come on! Sue, sue" | Oct 07 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | He was probably behind the attacks on IBM employees. | Oct 07 21:24 |
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| zoobab | the only way to get rid of Microsoft is patents | Oct 07 21:24 |
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| jose__ | by dominating linux from commercial pov, they can make it inferior to the real platform.. netware for example | Oct 07 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&... | Oct 07 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | Always beware the Microsoft Mafia(R) | Oct 07 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | They smell money and like bunch of hyena they'll eat everything that stands in their way | Oct 07 21:25 |
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| schestowitz | *hyenas | Oct 07 21:25 |
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| jose__ | linux will have weak ms dotnet and netware dotnet compat for example. | Oct 07 21:26 |
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| jose__ | that line would work if dotnet was widespread and looked upon favorably | Oct 07 21:26 |
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| jose__ | without mono, it's hard to get to that step .. at least as concerns linux | Oct 07 21:27 |
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| jose__ | they won't encourage linux driver development the way they would for netware | Oct 07 21:27 |
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| schestowitz | I'm not sure Netware dies so fast, but the recession might change this (stimulate the abandonment rates). | Oct 07 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | I haven't caught up with Novell news _in days_... like 6. | Oct 07 21:29 |
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| jose__ | well, that was a theory. by embracing linux they move in that direction. | Oct 07 21:29 |
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| jose__ | however | Oct 07 21:29 |
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| jose__ | the real proprietary big boy is microsoft and their platforms | Oct 07 21:29 |
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| jose__ | i don't think netware and novell will hold up.. | Oct 07 21:29 |
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| jose__ | they might get a little itsy pie crumb like others microsoft keeps around | Oct 07 21:30 |
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| jose__ | by embracing linux they hedge in a number of ways.. but they won't prefer foss if they can help it | Oct 07 21:30 |
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| jose__ | that was my point | Oct 07 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: they make a mistake by neglecting the desktop | Oct 07 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | They stepped aside, some say, because they need to be nice to Microsoft. | Oct 07 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | How does not compete with a friend? Mind you, Microsoft looks down at Novell. It's like the friend that only does Microsoft's homework (bully analogy) | Oct 07 21:31 |
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| jose__ | microsoft is not foolish.. if they pay the big bucks, they call the strategic shots | Oct 07 21:31 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, and that's what has been happening. | Oct 07 21:32 |
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| schestowitz | Novell invests a lot in .NET | Oct 07 21:32 |
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| jose__ | huckspian doesn't care.. another dollar is another day of salary | Oct 07 21:32 |
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| zoobab | did you know that Marshall Phelps was fired as an employee because he did not managed to get RH as a licensee? | Oct 07 21:32 |
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| schestowitz | A Novell executive (Masie) that buying Ximian was getting a "Red carpet" | Oct 07 21:32 |
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| zoobab | I think he works as an independent right now for MS | Oct 07 21:32 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft assimilation is not the route to profit though. | Oct 07 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: probably. I found details about him. | Oct 07 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | Did you see this in any of the pages yet? I've already figured out who that is. | Oct 07 21:33 |
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| jose__ | the mindset is to push those under you to commit the deeds | Oct 07 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | Marshall was at IBM, then Microsoft, right? | Oct 07 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | Was he fired? | Oct 07 21:33 |
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| jose__ | get the job done and get well fed.. else, you sleep in the barn | Oct 07 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: got a source for this? Very IMPORTANT. | Oct 07 21:34 |
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| zoobab | someone at RH told me | Oct 07 21:34 |
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| zoobab | I can ask for more infos | Oct 07 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: was he fired from MS? | Oct 07 21:34 |
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| zoobab | at least as an employee | Oct 07 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | I have some quotes where he talks about gates' obsession with patents. | Oct 07 21:34 |
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| schestowitz | Which has me thinking of Myhrvold and other trolls. | Oct 07 21:34 |
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| zoobab | I should get the isl3893 distribution to request a licence | Oct 07 21:35 |
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| zoobab | license | Oct 07 21:35 |
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| schestowitz | Smith and the guy with a Latin surname are both the IP bullies /inside/ MS now. | Oct 07 21:35 |
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| schestowitz | They resort to extortion (like the knee cap routine) to fetch money secretly from top companies. | Oct 07 21:35 |
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| zoobab | I am still waiting for my FRAND license to distribute OOXML implenentations | Oct 07 21:35 |
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| schestowitz | No reply, eh/ | Oct 07 21:36 |
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| schestowitz | ? | Oct 07 21:36 |
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| zoobab | if you really want to scare Microsoft, you have to build a troll | Oct 07 21:36 |
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| schestowitz | Anyway, about Phelps, that's interesting and I will blog it. | Oct 07 21:36 |
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| zoobab | and go for Windows/Office removel | Oct 07 21:36 |
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| zoobab | removal | Oct 07 21:36 |
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| schestowitz | "Trolls4Hire" | Oct 07 21:36 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: when was he fired? | Oct 07 21:37 |
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| jose__ | zoobab:microsoft doesn't scare easily against opponents looking for money | Oct 07 21:37 |
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| zoobab | don't know | Oct 07 21:37 |
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| zoobab | I will ask for more details | Oct 07 21:37 |
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| schestowitz | Red Hat had some discussions in 2005/6 (Red Hat's previous CEO said so) | Oct 07 21:37 |
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| zoobab | some patent trolls don't go after money | Oct 07 21:37 |
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| schestowitz | Later on, in 2007, they talked about codecs and Red hat left the table | Oct 07 21:37 |
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| jose__ | gotta put that in the hiring ad | Oct 07 21:37 |
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| jose__ | "will not sell out for any amount of money or power promised" | Oct 07 21:38 |
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| schestowitz | But you can't fight a bully with a bully, can you? | Oct 07 21:38 |
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| zoobab | proxytrolls can go for product removal, which is more interesting | Oct 07 21:38 |
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| jose__ | they might team up.. in other words | Oct 07 21:38 |
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| schestowitz | twitter has already pulled a nasty one with nyms in order to fight shills nyms in /. | Oct 07 21:38 |
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| jose__ | we would need patent trolls with an itch to scratch (ie, a score to settle)... lol | Oct 07 21:39 |
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| schestowitz | Avistar? | Oct 07 21:40 |
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| schestowitz | It's not a troll, but it could become one. | Oct 07 21:40 |
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| jose__ | patenting is such a waste of time and energy if you aren't in it for oodles of money.. maybe some itch to get patents | Oct 07 21:40 |
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| schestowitz | Some people just sell their patents (to trolls) | Oct 07 21:40 |
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| schestowitz | It's a system of system abuse. | Oct 07 21:40 |
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| jose__ | if they itch for the recognition or whatever.. ms will offer them something | Oct 07 21:41 |
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| schestowitz | Created by the crooked, subverted by the crooked for the crooked. | Oct 07 21:41 |
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| schestowitz | There was another patent collapse I hear... many years ago. | Oct 07 21:41 |
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| jose__ | principles is what MS can't convincingly offer anyone | Oct 07 21:41 |
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| schestowitz | People got too greedy and 'patents' got too broad in terms of scope. | Oct 07 21:41 |
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| schestowitz | Nowadays, even poetry or lyrical things can be patented in some places. | Oct 07 21:41 |
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| jose__ | you've read the sci-fi arti about the copyright problem of the future where virtually every useful line is copyrighted? | Oct 07 21:42 |
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| jose__ | where about 50% of people are artists | Oct 07 21:42 |
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| jose__ | i think there was an assassination or attempt as part of the plot | Oct 07 21:43 |
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| jose__ | some congressperson needed to get some bill changed or passed | Oct 07 21:43 |
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| jose__ | pretty interesting.. shows where disney and others might get us to eventually | Oct 07 21:43 |
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| trmanco | http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente... | Oct 07 21:44 |
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| jose__ | don't have a link, title, or author | Oct 07 21:44 |
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| schestowitz | "Not yet..." | Oct 07 21:45 |
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| schestowitz | Some people say their ISPs offer no access. | Oct 07 21:45 |
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| schestowitz | They just wants the 'news' like Faux to remain. | Oct 07 21:45 |
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| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc4-broo2-0-0-cust1012.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 07 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Can't let 'the people' talk to one another. Net neutrality is another tool for the task, where tiering punishes the poor. | Oct 07 21:45 |
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| trmanco | http://osnews.com/story/20362/Canonical_Co... | Oct 07 21:48 |
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| *mib_5o4oak (i=557f1d6b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-02fd9af37c4358dc) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 07 21:52 |
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| jose__ | comments on Linuxtoday question the value of the numbers.. does someone know what 4x means | Oct 07 21:53 |
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| jose__ | 4x of what | Oct 07 21:53 |
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| jose__ | this number might be small and negligible | Oct 07 21:53 |
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| trmanco | yes | Oct 07 21:54 |
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| jose__ | some mentioned that this company and ms had something going.. xp and linux were not sold the same | Oct 07 21:55 |
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| jose__ | "higher than average rate of return" as canonical says can be 1.3 not 4 | Oct 07 21:55 |
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| jose__ | another point brought up was that linux people remove windows while windows people panic | Oct 07 21:56 |
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| jose__ | of course, if the sample is small enough, your buddies can help spoil linux' numbers ..or vice-versa though the big money tends to be with the ms side | Oct 07 21:56 |
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| jose__ | in any case, vendors care about these numbers for now because of extra costs.. at least if the numbers are much worse and sales are similar | Oct 07 21:57 |
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| jose__ | good thing is that linux seems to be selling more so a higher rate of return can actually be cheaper | Oct 07 21:57 |
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| jose__ | for the vendor | Oct 07 21:57 |
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| jose__ | ie, a higher rate of return for linux can still end up a better deal for the vendors because overhead costs might be met and not with windows | Oct 07 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | They need to just present these units properly. | Oct 07 21:59 |
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| schestowitz | People were made to think that computer=Windows. | Oct 07 21:59 |
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| jose__ | but it won't make it into get-the-facts | Oct 07 21:59 |
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| jose__ | if they are transparent | Oct 07 21:59 |
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| schestowitz | Why do you think Microsoft is dumping 'free' (gratis) software in schools and developing countries? | Oct 07 21:59 |
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| schestowitz | Bill Gates: “They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.” | Oct 07 21:59 |
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| jose__ | oh, before i forget.. another comment mentioned that ms is subsidizing 150% windows costs in some cases | Oct 07 22:00 |
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| jose__ | the problem ms has is that they can't kill volunteer linux.. the pressure for them to give subsidies (legal or illegal) simply grows over time | Oct 07 22:01 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: yes, they are dumping. | Oct 07 22:02 |
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| schestowitz | That's why the EC was asked to get involved. | Oct 07 22:02 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: they rely on addiction now ('pumping'), not profit. Far fewer people than you think pay for Windows and Office. | Oct 07 22:02 |
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| jose__ | to me mono is the attempt at that addiction but for the developers not users.. it's effective and it's independent of the patent thing and still very important | Oct 07 22:03 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: http://www.robweir.com/blog/2008... | Oct 07 22:06 |
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| schestowitz | "To put it in perspective, the US SC34 shadow committee currently has around 20 members. Before Microsoft stuffed it we had around 7. Regardless, the US SC34 mirror committee typically sends a delegation of 2 or 3 people to international meetings." | Oct 07 22:06 |
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| schestowitz | SC34 = Microsoft-stuffed gang of hyenas. | Oct 07 22:07 |
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| jose__ | "As applied here, the antitrust laws prohibit a monopolist from using its monopoly power in one market as a lever to gain a monopoly in a second market. The violation consists of creating a Trojan Horse by marketing the WISE program as the guarantee of an open standard for ISVs, and then hobbling that horse to assure that ISVs who accepted the invitation to 'innovate' using the Win32 APIs would not be able to run their programs on | Oct 07 22:07 |
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| jose__ | Unix servers. Microsoft achieved this by restricting WISE licensees to an 'apple core,' and specifically by excluding technology necessary to support server applications." Bristol, with the aid of Microsoft's internal emails, made it clear that all this happened, but failed to convince the jury it was illegal. Bristol now, with justification, argues that Microsoft did engage in anticompetitive activities (despite Microsoft's triump | Oct 07 22:07 |
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| jose__ | hant claims of vindication). But what, in light of the verdict, can the remedy be? | Oct 07 22:07 |
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| jose__ | from http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/0... | Oct 07 22:07 |
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| jose__ | use dotnet api guys.. it will serve you on linux and on windows.. windows is inevitable, btw | Oct 07 22:09 |
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| schestowitz | Well... that's a drop in a big pool: to me mono is the attempt at that addiction but for the developers not users.. it's effective and it's independent of the patent thing and still very important | Oct 07 22:09 |
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| schestowitz | Oops. | Oct 07 22:09 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.p... < Microsoft Litigation | Oct 07 22:09 |
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| jose__ | ooops is right :) | Oct 07 22:09 |
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| schestowitz | That's what Novell says (about Windows) | Oct 07 22:10 |
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| schestowitz | They believe in co-existence while they go out of existence (Novell's market cap falls like a rock) | Oct 07 22:10 |
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| schestowitz | Remember this one from BeOS founder... (let me find it) | Oct 07 22:10 |
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| schestowitz | “I once preached peaceful coexistence with Windows. You may laugh at my expense — I deserve it.” –Be’s CEO Jean-Louis Gassée | Oct 07 22:11 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/ | Oct 07 22:11 |
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| schestowitz | And here's post-Messman Novell: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uplo... | Oct 07 22:12 |
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| jose__ | a major difference here is we are open source.. however, only means so much. we have strengths and weaknesses. | Oct 07 22:13 |
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| jose__ | we have stamina but less leverage in some ways.. eg for embracing and extending.. however, making it easy for ms by porting or using dotnet is no help. | Oct 07 22:17 |
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| schestowitz | There needs to be more s/w policing. | Oct 07 22:19 |
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| schestowitz | Case of point (earlier today): http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/... | Oct 07 22:19 |
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| schestowitz | We rely two much on a commission in one continent to police behaviour and punish for abuse. | Oct 07 22:20 |
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| schestowitz | There's no software policing and as I've shown before, the US DoJ seems corrupt too. Microsoft put some insiders there a decade ago, or so I hear and also see. | Oct 07 22:20 |
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| zoobab | The bush administration stopped the antitrust in the US | Oct 07 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | Until the US DoJ can tame its own animals, it would be sensible for other countries to simply embargo the violative companies... | Oct 07 22:21 |
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| zoobab | someone confirmed it in a recent meeting | Oct 07 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | If you want to see how corrupot DoJ is, see: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/23/... | Oct 07 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | Professor Lessig seems to agree on these things: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/netroots_n... | Oct 07 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: it's war and digital imperialism. All or nothing... | Oct 07 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... | Oct 07 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | I'm pointing to a comment, but the post too can be an explanation for the collapse of the stock market. The SEC just 'settled' with Microsoft, confirming that Microsoft violated some rules. Microsoft paid loads of money to shut up people who said the truth. | Oct 07 22:24 |
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| zoobab | Managing the Amortization of a Loan - U.S. Patent No. 5,878,404 | Oct 07 22:26 |
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| zoobab | titled "System and Method for Managing the Amortization of a Loan" issued to | Oct 07 22:26 |
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| zoobab | Stout et al. on March 2, 1999 and assigned to Mechanics Savings Bank. | Oct 07 22:26 |
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| zoobab | I think it should play a role in the current financial crisi | Oct 07 22:26 |
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| zoobab | crisis | Oct 07 22:26 |
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| zoobab | http://www.siia.net/software/we... | Oct 07 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | BM pat? | Oct 07 22:27 |
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| zoobab | it is a BM | Oct 07 22:32 |
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| zoobab | I am gonna dig into the EPO database for a while | Oct 07 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | I read DM now. http://www.multichannel.com/article... | Oct 07 22:32 |
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| zoobab | trying to gain some press coverage to ruin the EPO image | Oct 07 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | I suppose it catches all the swpatents news. It's not my focus, but it's getting impossible to escape; | Oct 07 22:32 |
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| zoobab | Swpat is a system for loosers | Oct 07 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | It's not being discussed in USENET too, so there's more pressure for change. | Oct 07 22:33 |
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| zoobab | in order to make loosers win | Oct 07 22:33 |
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| zoobab | :-) | Oct 07 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | Did you see Amazon's latest? | Oct 07 22:33 |
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| zoobab | no | Oct 07 22:33 |
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| schestowitz | I blogged it earlier. | Oct 07 22:33 |
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| zoobab | url? | Oct 07 22:33 |
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| zoobab | I am lost in all of your posts | Oct 07 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/06/... | Oct 07 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | Lots of good news for Red Hat this week, despite the recession. | Oct 07 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | For Microsoft, there's little good news at all. The same goes for most companies (layoffs, delays, bankruptcies). | Oct 07 22:35 |
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| *trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)") | Oct 07 22:36 |
| schestowitz | You should read http://www.linuxdevices.com/ . Good site for the stuff that matter. Linux is huge in embedded. | Oct 07 22:37 |
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| zoobab | of course it is | Oct 07 22:37 |
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| zoobab | but it is also a huge mess | Oct 07 22:37 |
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| zoobab | all SDKs are different | Oct 07 22:37 |
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| zoobab | horrible patches coming from Chinese and Taiwanese devs | Oct 07 22:38 |
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| zoobab | binary blobs | Oct 07 22:38 |
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| zoobab | and so on | Oct 07 22:38 |
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| zoobab | I am a fan of OpenWRT, trying to boot it on my laptop | Oct 07 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | Some devices are open | Oct 07 22:39 |
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| zoobab | none of them | Oct 07 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | "open" as as "free" (libre) | Oct 07 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | OpenMoko...? | Oct 07 22:39 |
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| zoobab | I should work on a webgui for compiling openwrt | Oct 07 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | webgui... any wspats on that one? | Oct 07 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | *swpats . It's a maze out there | Oct 07 22:40 |
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| zoobab | ajax is even patented | Oct 07 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | I can imagine. But as long as you have no money, you're safe. | Oct 07 22:40 |
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| zoobab | the cool thing is that with time, stupid litigation will explode | Oct 07 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | In case you make some money, you lose it to trolls. | Oct 07 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | China... let me find something. | Oct 07 22:40 |
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| zoobab | threats letters are cheap | Oct 07 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | Was in Updegrove's site before... | Oct 07 22:40 |
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| zoobab | http://libdca.wikidot.com/ | Oct 07 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | Can't find it, but this one picked long the way: http://neweconomist.blogs.com/new_economist... | Oct 07 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | The Original Patent Troll : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lOGoZFzHkhs | Oct 07 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | This recent one is funny: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_pKT8ao6x6o | Oct 07 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* 'inventor': http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y5VF3ecXPw | Oct 07 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | When $700 billion is not enough: http://technocrat.net/d/2008/10/7/51137 | Oct 07 22:46 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. Glyn Moody defends me here: http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbo... (didn't even realise until now..) | Oct 07 22:50 |
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| zoobab | NoOOXML should write an open letter to ISO | Oct 07 22:57 |
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| zoobab | asking them if they reserve the right to sue you :-) | Oct 07 22:57 |
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| schestowitz | It should, if possible. | Oct 07 22:57 |
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| schestowitz | *make a letter. | Oct 07 22:57 |
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| zoobab | just to have a statement back from their side would make a nice PR | Oct 07 22:57 |
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| schestowitz | Vague threats are a gagging tactic and I have many more beans to spill. | Oct 07 22:58 |
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| schestowitz | No answer = ISO still secretive. | Oct 07 22:58 |
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| schestowitz | I took it off all the mirror, but some people I don't know turned it into torrents, I think. Besides, other people passed it around before I did. | Oct 07 22:59 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.bloomberg.com/ap... ... Hardware goes where /real/ wealth is: "AMD Advances 8.5% After Investment From Abu Dhabi [...] Advanced Micro Devices Inc., the chipmaker struggling to take on Intel Corp., rose 8.5 percent after deciding to spin off some plants, part of an investment of up to $8.4 billion from the Abu Dhabi government." | Oct 07 23:03 |
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| tessier_ | I hope AMD survives and prospers. Intel really needs the competition. | Oct 07 23:08 |
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| schestowitz | Intel does servers and desktops mainly, but it's trying to expand (also GPUs). They still have competition in the mobile space and there's IBM with its chips. | Oct 07 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | jose__: see the scale of this powwow: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_st... | Oct 07 23:17 |
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| jose__ | i passed on commenting but there were many fewer comments then | Oct 07 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | I'll get around to doing a post about Mono later (also on Saturday) | Oct 07 23:21 |
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| jose__ | "many fewer comments" i don't think that's quite correct lol | Oct 07 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | It's getting tedious, but the Microsoft 'fluff' (Slashdot, Krill, other mouthpieces) confuses people. | Oct 07 23:22 |
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| schestowitz | It's not a lion, it's just a 'cuddly cat'. Come closer to it. | Oct 07 23:22 |
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| MinceR | gn | Oct 07 23:27 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news... "Thanks for the valuable gift of .Net on linux. Linux/BSD users will enjoy it as much as the residents of Troy enjoyed their gift horse." | Oct 07 23:29 |
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| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Oct 07 23:41 |
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| schestowitz | NetApp faces Sun lawsuit loss : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1... | Oct 07 23:49 |
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