| schestowitz | "The Mumbai attacks have been dubbed 'India's 9/11', and there are calls for a 9/11-style response, including an attack on Pakistan. Instead, the country must fight terrorism with justice, or face civil war" < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/1... > | Dec 14 00:00 |
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| schestowitz | Your friend wrote a comment: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/15/microso... | Dec 14 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | Mr "Jihad" responds. Will someone pound him on the head. Even community service won't undo the damage he caused to the likes of OS/2 engineers | Dec 14 00:28 |
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| PetoKraus | good night :) | Dec 14 00:32 |
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| MinceR | gn | Dec 14 01:09 |
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| schestowitz | "Newsweek has reportedly lost between half a million to a million subscribers from its 2.6 million rate base and has announced layoffs. TIME layoffs may total 600. National Geographic, The Economist Group and Doubledown Media are all laying off staffers." http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.p... | Dec 14 01:17 |
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| schestowitz | Good. Dead Big Media. | Dec 14 01:17 |
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| schestowitz | "It's their own damned fault. Like the US automakers and the music industry, print media companies squandered most of their time and money during boom times clinging to the past rather than preparing for the future. And now they're left totally unprepared for the bust." | Dec 14 01:18 |
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| schestowitz | Lessig: "As some of you remember, just over a year ago I reported that I was shifting my academic (and activist) work from free culture related issues to (what I called) "corruption."" http://lessig.org/blog/2008/12... Similar here... from promoting Free software I moved towards studying corruption against it. | Dec 14 01:52 |
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| schestowitz | "Take the money out of politics (and here's a specific proposal for doing that), and then come back to me to talk about the good, public regarding reasons why Congress is stepping in to "save the auto industry."" http://lessig.org/blog/2008/12/the_ba... | Dec 14 01:53 |
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| schestowitz | "Pay our buddies in industry... pay them now... they'll reward us for it some years down the line (reward to politicians only)." | Dec 14 01:54 |
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| schestowitz | Let's see how much more corruption will come out of FraudStreet in the year to come. It's another type of chain reaction. That's the type of nasty stuff that persuaded me to spend so much time studying and writing about it. | Dec 14 01:59 |
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| Omar87 | schestowitz: What, in your opinion, is the best way to fight back against Micro/Novell? | Dec 14 02:25 |
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| schestowitz | Spreading the word | Dec 14 02:27 |
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| Omar87 | No, I mean something more than that. | Dec 14 04:05 |
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| Omar87 | Like, for example, if we could do something tangible. | Dec 14 04:06 |
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| Omar87 | I don't think spreading the word alone would be helpful enough to stop the conspiracy. | Dec 14 04:07 |
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| macabe | Do you have a local Linux User Group? Getting together with others that use FOSS can a generate ideas. | Dec 14 04:22 |
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| Omar87 | macabe: That's right. | Dec 14 04:41 |
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| macabe | Also if there is none, maybe you can start one. Burning live CDs, showing people the simplicity and freedom that exists in GNU/Linux/FOSS. | Dec 14 04:48 |
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| Omar87 | macabe: There is a Linux users group in Jordan. :) | Dec 14 04:49 |
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| Omar87 | There's also an Open Source Group in my university. | Dec 14 04:49 |
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| macabe | Outstanding. There you can get together with others and share info on corporate lock-in, and so on. | Dec 14 04:50 |
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| PetoKraus | morning | Dec 14 09:10 |
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| schestowitz | morning | Dec 14 09:24 |
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| schestowitz | Real piracy: http://technocrat.net/d/2008... | Dec 14 10:14 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft wants to 'addict' children to Microsoft monopolists and educators are too dumb to understand dumping tactics...? http://www.itnews.com.au/News/91038,microsoft-still-i... | Dec 14 11:19 |
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| anubisg1 | hey man.. you are really stupid with "boycott novell" | Dec 14 12:02 |
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| anubisg1 | hahha | Dec 14 12:02 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* What utter BS... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gSlKrhp0d... | Dec 14 15:55 |
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| PetoKraus | what's that? | Dec 14 16:03 |
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| PetoKraus | it makes no sense | Dec 14 16:03 |
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| PetoKraus | i see them talking | Dec 14 16:05 |
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| PetoKraus | but i hear only "bla bla bla" | Dec 14 16:05 |
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| schestowitz | Where? The video? | Dec 14 16:06 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah | Dec 14 16:06 |
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| PetoKraus | i mean | Dec 14 16:06 |
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| PetoKraus | it works like this: you've got national TV | Dec 14 16:07 |
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| PetoKraus | it's controlled by whoever is at the power | Dec 14 16:07 |
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| PetoKraus | then you have commercial/private TV's | Dec 14 16:07 |
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| PetoKraus | they are responding to public demand | Dec 14 16:07 |
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| PetoKraus | that's it. That's how it works. | Dec 14 16:07 |
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| schestowitz | It can be done better | Dec 14 16:07 |
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| PetoKraus | well it can, but why should it | Dec 14 16:08 |
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| PetoKraus | this way you know what bias is where | Dec 14 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | True. Anyway, bbl | Dec 14 16:09 |
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| Omar87 | Hi all. | Dec 14 16:47 |
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| PetoKraus | hello | Dec 14 16:49 |
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| Casperin | PetoKraus: here the state owns one of the tv stations, but it has no saying in what goes into the news. That is by far the best tv station | Dec 14 16:58 |
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| PetoKraus | well, i don't believe that "it has no saying" part | Dec 14 16:59 |
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| PetoKraus | where are you from? | Dec 14 17:00 |
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| Casperin | Denmark | Dec 14 17:00 |
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| Casperin | and it's trying.. of course.. but it's not really succeeding. | Dec 14 17:00 |
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| PetoKraus | the same in Slovakia | Dec 14 17:00 |
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| PetoKraus | but you know, just telling the reporters what not to put/ask is usually enough to get bias | Dec 14 17:01 |
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| Casperin | my point though, is that it is by a large margin the best news reporting here... imo of course. Others enjoy the pravda'ish news coming out of the other major channel (which is private) | Dec 14 17:01 |
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| Casperin | they can't dictate that... they also can't block specific reporters, etc | Dec 14 17:02 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah well :) | Dec 14 17:02 |
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| PetoKraus | good for you i'd say | Dec 14 17:02 |
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| Casperin | hehe thanks... I don't really mean to criticize other ways of doing it. I don't know enough about it... it was just to offer an alternative view to what you said | Dec 14 17:03 |
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| PetoKraus | well i have to agree, the national tv has usually the most "unbiased" news in slovakia as well | Dec 14 17:04 |
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| PetoKraus | but it's mainly because the other two channels are focusing on making the news appealing to children and old people by putting "a puppy story" in every evening batch | Dec 14 17:05 |
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| Casperin | exactly | Dec 14 17:06 |
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| Casperin | I'm actually listening to those news now... about Slovakia | Dec 14 17:08 |
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| PetoKraus | umm, are there any? :) | Dec 14 17:08 |
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| Casperin | haha | Dec 14 17:08 |
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| PetoKraus | i'm news-agnostic when in scotland | Dec 14 17:08 |
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| Casperin | they say you have no banking problems with the global crisis.. but that the auto industry is hit | Dec 14 17:09 |
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| Casperin | and then they try to analyze why.. but I wasn't really listening | Dec 14 17:09 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah, the economics is stable because | Dec 14 17:11 |
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| PetoKraus | we escaped the guillotine by seconds | Dec 14 17:11 |
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| PetoKraus | we're having € since january | Dec 14 17:11 |
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| PetoKraus | that's what I call - lucky | Dec 14 17:12 |
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| Casperin | We don't have it... | Dec 14 17:12 |
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| Casperin | neither Denmark nor Sweden (where I live currently) has it. But I don't know if it'd have been better or worse with it | Dec 14 17:12 |
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| PetoKraus | well, for us it's beneficial | Dec 14 17:12 |
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| PetoKraus | there's been fixed exchange rate since june or so | Dec 14 17:12 |
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| Casperin | why? | Dec 14 17:12 |
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| PetoKraus | when the final exchange rate was announced | Dec 14 17:13 |
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| PetoKraus | if we didn't have that, we'd be in problems as hungary, or Czech republic | Dec 14 17:13 |
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| Casperin | oh.. one thing I did hear from the analysis, was that probably one of the problems you had, was that your original currency had been evaluated too high | Dec 14 17:14 |
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| Casperin | I see | Dec 14 17:14 |
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| PetoKraus | though when the car industry leaves for further east | Dec 14 17:14 |
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| PetoKraus | that's when shit hits the fan for us ;) | Dec 14 17:14 |
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| Casperin | and you didn't manage to keep them there? | Dec 14 17:15 |
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| PetoKraus | well, they are not moving anywhere... | Dec 14 17:15 |
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| Casperin | ... I guess I really wasn't listening to the radio lol | Dec 14 17:15 |
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| PetoKraus | they have been built in past 3-4 years so | Dec 14 17:15 |
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| Casperin | I see | Dec 14 17:15 |
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| PetoKraus | not much reasons to move away, yet. | Dec 14 17:16 |
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| Casperin | taxes are low I heard.. like 14% on everything | Dec 14 17:16 |
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| PetoKraus | umm, as far as i remember, in the summer it was 19% | Dec 14 17:18 |
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| PetoKraus | though they might have lowered it | Dec 14 17:18 |
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| PetoKraus | though it's flat tax, mostly | Dec 14 17:18 |
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| Casperin | yeah, that's what they said.. I was listening that far :P | Dec 14 17:19 |
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| Casperin | okay.. I'm going to make some food.. I heard it's healthy to eat and all that.. better try it out | Dec 14 17:20 |
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| PetoKraus | :D | Dec 14 17:20 |
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| PetoKraus | i'm wondering what'll happen to britain | Dec 14 17:20 |
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| PetoKraus | hehe, 25 banks bankrupted in 2008 in USA | Dec 14 17:23 |
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| Casperin | small steps towards a better world :P | Dec 14 17:39 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah | Dec 14 17:41 |
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| Casperin | an old (literally) friend told me that here banks were created initially by people throwing their savings together in order to cultivate them... no shareholders or anything like that. It almost made me like banks (the way they were, not how they are) | Dec 14 17:43 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah well | Dec 14 17:44 |
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| Casperin | shit floats | Dec 14 17:47 |
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| PetoKraus | that's a myth, but let's say yes ;) | Dec 14 17:47 |
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| PetoKraus | oh GOD | Dec 14 17:48 |
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| PetoKraus | when you think they made sane history in Firefox | Dec 14 17:48 |
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| PetoKraus | they didn't! | Dec 14 17:49 |
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| PetoKraus | i wanna search AND sort the results by date and page | Dec 14 17:49 |
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| PetoKraus | is it that hard?!? | Dec 14 17:49 |
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| PetoKraus | oh god! | Dec 14 17:51 |
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| Casperin | rhetorical question I take it.. | Dec 14 17:51 |
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| Casperin | nice link dump btw Roy :) | Dec 14 17:51 |
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| PetoKraus | arch installation is honestly the most f*ed up thing there is | Dec 14 17:54 |
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| PetoKraus | it's like a maze, if you manage, you're good to go ;) | Dec 14 17:54 |
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| PetoKraus | gentoo is better, you just follow the instructions... :) | Dec 14 17:55 |
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| neighborlee | odd I cant get to opensourcerer atm... I wonder if it got hacked o_0 ( or didn't pay his bill thi s month , or its just on my end shrug ?) | Dec 14 17:55 |
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| PetoKraus | "This makes it possible to run pacman as a cron job and leave the system to update and upgrade itself on a regular basis with minimal user intervention. | Dec 14 17:56 |
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| PetoKraus | " | Dec 14 17:56 |
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| PetoKraus | MORON! | Dec 14 17:56 |
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| neighborlee | I have installed gentoo before,,but honestly I never felt I got enough bang for my buck | Dec 14 17:56 |
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| neighborlee | update I couild see,,upgrade might be slightly more dangerous ;) | Dec 14 17:57 |
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| PetoKraus | i mean, arch tends to break so much, that running updates as a cronjob is a BAD idea | Dec 14 17:58 |
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| PetoKraus | it's not that hard to fix though. it's usually just rebuilding given package againist the fresh lib from the repo | Dec 14 17:58 |
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| PetoKraus | but still!!! | Dec 14 17:58 |
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| PetoKraus | it's not debian | Dec 14 17:58 |
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| Casperin | heard about this thing called ubuntu? :P | Dec 14 18:02 |
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| PetoKraus | yes i did | Dec 14 18:03 |
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| PetoKraus | i never used it for more than an hour | Dec 14 18:03 |
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| PetoKraus | but i can't say bad thing about it | Dec 14 18:03 |
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| PetoKraus | but arch is good, arch suits me | Dec 14 18:03 |
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| Casperin | what is that based on? | Dec 14 18:04 |
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| Casperin | or is it from scratch? | Dec 14 18:04 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah | Dec 14 18:04 |
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| PetoKraus | the package manager is similar to portage and apt | Dec 14 18:04 |
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| PetoKraus | flexibility of ebuilds, speed of apt (much better, actually) | Dec 14 18:05 |
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| Casperin | but why run this over debian? | Dec 14 18:06 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah, that's a good question | Dec 14 18:07 |
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| PetoKraus | rolling-release model | Dec 14 18:07 |
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| PetoKraus | package management done almost perfectly, meaning, if two packages happen to be incompatible | Dec 14 18:07 |
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| PetoKraus | eg. something depending on older glibc, while you just updated to new one | Dec 14 18:07 |
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| PetoKraus | you can just take provided PKGBUILD, and compile the package againist the new glibc using package manager's tools and install it using package manager's tools | Dec 14 18:08 |
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| neighborlee | its a shame there aren't at least one binary repo,,,who wants to have to compile everything just to use it,..or has that beeen added recently ? | Dec 14 18:08 |
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| PetoKraus | arch is binary-only | Dec 14 18:08 |
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| PetoKraus | with PKGBUILDs in arch build system | Dec 14 18:09 |
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| Casperin | tactics | Dec 14 18:09 |
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| neighborlee | sorry I meant gentoo | Dec 14 18:09 |
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| PetoKraus | ah, neighborlee, there's sabayon | Dec 14 18:09 |
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| PetoKraus | Casperin: other great thing is - 99% of packages are vanilla | Dec 14 18:09 |
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| PetoKraus | meaning, you can complain directly to upstream - no dodgy debian patches | Dec 14 18:10 |
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| Casperin | it's way above my head :) .. I'm just trying to familiarize myself with it, and wouldn't dream of switching from Debian for now | Dec 14 18:10 |
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| PetoKraus | AND it's optimized for i686/x86_64 and not for i386/i486 | Dec 14 18:10 |
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| Casperin | oooh.. I like that :) | Dec 14 18:10 |
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| PetoKraus | it's nothing like gentoo's rice, though | Dec 14 18:11 |
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| Casperin | gentoo scares me | Dec 14 18:11 |
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| PetoKraus | well, gentoo is just pain in the ass | Dec 14 18:13 |
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| PetoKraus | because when the package managers in gentoo break something, it's usually VERY VERY bad news | Dec 14 18:13 |
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| PetoKraus | or no news at all.... | Dec 14 18:13 |
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| PetoKraus | which is the worst case | Dec 14 18:13 |
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| Casperin | I eventually settled on debian with ion2, but now I'm working as a teacher, and a little "corruption" of the pupils won't harm.. so ubuntu + compiz it is, and I've had a LOT of "wow"s lately :) | Dec 14 18:14 |
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| PetoKraus | Arch is pretty upfront about this - "upgrade to xorg 1.5 is gonna screw your computer" were basically the news | Dec 14 18:14 |
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| Casperin | haha | Dec 14 18:14 |
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| PetoKraus | + distinctive #archlinux channel | Dec 14 18:14 |
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| PetoKraus | feels like 4chan sometimes.... | Dec 14 18:14 |
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| Casperin | gentoos package managers sound like something from MS now :P | Dec 14 18:14 |
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| Casperin | hah | Dec 14 18:14 |
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| PetoKraus | it's portage, i'd say | Dec 14 18:14 |
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| PetoKraus | portage is mess... python & bash? are you crazy?!? | Dec 14 18:15 |
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| macabe | PK: Have you heard anything bad about Apt-Build? | Dec 14 18:15 |
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| PetoKraus | macabe: not really. I'm using debian lenny on my server. Debian is GREAT for machines you just need to have up and running | Dec 14 18:15 |
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| PetoKraus | and update like once a month or so | Dec 14 18:15 |
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| neighborlee | sounds to me like gentoo has community<>developer issues | Dec 14 18:15 |
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| neighborlee | or have those thing been worked out | Dec 14 18:16 |
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| neighborlee | ................things | Dec 14 18:16 |
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| neighborlee | http://lwn.net/Articles/265403/ | Dec 14 18:16 |
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| PetoKraus | neighborlee: i can't tell much, i was using it only 6 months, but it's well | Dec 14 18:16 |
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| PetoKraus | well... | Dec 14 18:16 |
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| PetoKraus | too bloated :D | Dec 14 18:16 |
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| PetoKraus | in arch, there are only like 20 people managing the repos | Dec 14 18:16 |
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| PetoKraus | all the rest is in AUR (which are user-provided PKGBUILDs, from which you can compile your stuff) | Dec 14 18:17 |
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| PetoKraus | gentoo has definitely more | Dec 14 18:17 |
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| neighborlee | and then there was problem ? where kde4 took forever to get into repos ? | Dec 14 18:17 |
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| PetoKraus | I got no idea.... i just feel that "wee is better" | Dec 14 18:18 |
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| neighborlee | I remember reading their bug database once, but I didnt get through all of it..it was alongggggg discussion ;) | Dec 14 18:18 |
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| PetoKraus | in gentoo, or arch? | Dec 14 18:18 |
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| neighborlee | gentoo | Dec 14 18:18 |
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| neighborlee | I respect gentoo for what it is,,I just always felt price for admission was a bit high ;) | Dec 14 18:18 |
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| neighborlee | sabayon maybe,,,maybe illl take a peek someday | Dec 14 18:19 |
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| neighborlee | so you say it has binaries for many packages then... | Dec 14 18:19 |
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| PetoKraus | neighborlee: i'm gonna suggest you try arch sometime | Dec 14 18:20 |
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| neighborlee | already have long ago | Dec 14 18:20 |
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| PetoKraus | :) good then | Dec 14 18:20 |
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| neighborlee | same overall problem imnsho..admission too high | Dec 14 18:20 |
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| PetoKraus | you probably know why you are not using it. | Dec 14 18:20 |
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| neighborlee | but I like its simplicity overall...but still not fo rmel | Dec 14 18:20 |
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| neighborlee | for me ^] | Dec 14 18:20 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah :) | Dec 14 18:20 |
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| PetoKraus | i know what you mean. | Dec 14 18:21 |
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| PetoKraus | anyway, Status Quo | Dec 14 18:21 |
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| neighborlee | I tend to use only what average users would be using... | Dec 14 18:21 |
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| PetoKraus | see you :) | Dec 14 18:21 |
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| neighborlee | ok cu ;))) | Dec 14 18:21 |
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| neighborlee | thx for chat | Dec 14 18:21 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* http://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/B... "We were kind of stuck for a suitable reply to your generous present of that Hovesepian, back in 2006, until this surplus Beranger suddenly became available. We can guarantee you'll hear from it about 3 minutes after it first manages to get Vista running, then again, and again, and again......"" | Dec 14 18:51 |
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| schestowitz | Casperin: people who write the news can always be lackeys helping a mate. | Dec 14 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: good to hear about SK staying out of the Madoffism/FraudStreet/USD | Dec 14 18:54 |
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| Casperin | yes of course. I was just looking at it on a general level. Generally what comes out of the state owned (but not controlled) media is of higher quality. That's all. I don't buy the "private is good, because then we know what bias they will have" idea | Dec 14 18:56 |
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| Casperin | but brb :) | Dec 14 18:56 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: re:banks going bankrupt, it'll be the same with airlines. A friend who lost his job there told me. | Dec 14 18:56 |
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| Casperin | Sterling already went bankrupt, and at least in dk a lot of people are being fired in that business too... anyway brb, for real | Dec 14 18:57 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: Firefox history management is poor. Does it still use Mork files? | Dec 14 18:57 |
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| schestowitz | Arch is for uber-ricers; Gentoo is just for ricers. LFS is for masochists. | Dec 14 18:59 |
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| schestowitz | join #archlinux | Dec 14 19:01 |
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| schestowitz | Oops. | Dec 14 19:01 |
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| schestowitz | Busy house... | Dec 14 19:01 |
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| schestowitz | Much more then 'mainstream' distros | Dec 14 19:02 |
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| schestowitz | People could place bets on who's gonna go out of biz next (which airline). I'd better use up my frequent flyer points soon... | Dec 14 19:05 |
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| schestowitz | New Sun Java patent.. U.S. Patents Awarded to Inventors in New York (Dec. 13) < http://www.mbtmag.com/articleXml/LN8... > | Dec 14 19:11 |
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| schestowitz | About Beranger, I was among those saying he'll return. He rants like this for ATTENTION. But he's harmful to FOSS. Vista schmista. You'll see. He'll have another major depression and change everything. | Dec 14 19:15 |
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| schestowitz | IDG is not correcting erroneous report: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do... | Dec 14 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | Totally FALSE. FARCE. | Dec 14 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft unable to bet on big new projects? looks like it, for sure...http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/z... | Dec 14 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | The Microsoft mouthpieces at CNET help Microsoft's sentimental blackmail.. http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10118125-75.html http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2336568,00.asp | Dec 14 19:52 |
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| schestowitz | Vapourware boosting from Kevin McLaughlin: http://www.crn.com/software/212300260 Almost looks like it's ghostwritten. | Dec 14 19:52 |
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| schestowitz | Panic mode at Microsoft... http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-101222... http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?co... more zombie PCs... | Dec 14 19:56 |
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| schestowitz | IDG-based Microsoft chanting: Open Docx Files Even if You Don't Have Office 2007 < http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/art... > | Dec 14 20:21 |
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| schestowitz | EXCLUSIVE: Microsoft To Lay Off 1,500 In California; 200 In L.A. < http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlLA/layoffs/excl... > | Dec 14 20:28 |
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| schestowitz | Are they talking about Yahoo or MSFT?? Can anyone help herE? | Dec 14 20:29 |
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| schestowitz | http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2008/12/08/are-netfli... (Are Netflix Layoffs Microsoft’s Fault?) | Dec 14 20:29 |
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| schestowitz | Groklaw is on halt: http://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php | Dec 14 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | Wasn't the Examiner related to Microsoft somehow? http://www.examiner.com/x-1676-SF-Microsoft-... | Dec 14 21:29 |
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| MinceR | how are you gentlemen !! | Dec 14 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is throwing FUD at rivals again... http://news.spong.com/article/16741/Sony_Shoots_B... | Dec 14 21:33 |
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| schestowitz | Firefox FUD: http://www.dailytech.com/Firefox+Most+Ri... Follow the money... http://www.bit9.com/ Selected by Microsoft's by Partner Group ("Cool Vendor 2008") ->> http://www.google.com/search?nu... | Dec 14 21:40 |
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| MinceR | gn | Dec 14 23:44 |
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| schestowitz | u2 | Dec 14 23:48 |
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| PetoKraus | right | Dec 14 23:48 |
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| PetoKraus | Status Quo was rubbish | Dec 14 23:49 |
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| PetoKraus | the support band was actually BETTER than the main act | Dec 14 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | Speaking of rubbish, I have a good post coming up | Dec 14 23:49 |
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| schestowitz | About {Red] | Dec 14 23:49 |
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