To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : explain | Mar 17 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| oiaohm | If you go down to NT basic design. Its not a desktop or a server kernel. Its a RTOS kernel that has been damaged over the years so it no longer works perfectly. | Mar 17 00:04 |
| oiaohm | Third party patches exist to use NT style OS's realtime. | Mar 17 00:04 |
| _Hicham_ | didn't know that | Mar 17 00:05 |
| _Hicham_ | NT for realtime... | Mar 17 00:05 |
| Balrog_ | this apple ipod 'drm' chip thing is getting wierder | Mar 17 00:06 |
| Balrog_ | http://i.gizmodo.com/5170797/confirm... | Mar 17 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Biggest thing that has stuffed NT up from running will accross multiable cores also destoryed it realtime support too _Hicham_ | Mar 17 00:06 |
| Balrog_ | Update 2: Joel @ BBG says he spoke to Apple, and they denied the fact that there's any encryption or authentication in the chip. What's also interesting is that another tipster says the chip is relatively easy to clone (a fact Apple strangely corroborates), meaning the reason why the manufacturers are licensing and using Apple's version is most likely to get to market as fast as possible to beat their competitors. And, because they like the fact th | Mar 17 00:06 |
| Balrog_ | Update 3: Spoke to someone else at V-Moda, and they assured me that it was not an authentication chip, but a control chip as part of the "made for iPod" program that they receive from Apple. They've also got no plans to go and duplicate the functionality without the "made for iPod" label, as is probably the case with all other major manufacturers. | Mar 17 00:06 |
| Balrog_ | << quote | Mar 17 00:06 |
| Balrog_ | over-reaction this time???? | Mar 17 00:07 |
| oiaohm | Maybe. | Mar 17 00:09 |
| oiaohm | It might not be a DRM chip but it might be the chip apple pulles there device id information from. | Mar 17 00:10 |
| Balrog_ | I hope so. If it is, this should be an indication to the EFF and related groups/media not to overreact. | Mar 17 00:10 |
| Balrog_ | I'm thinking it's some sort of pulse-encoding chip | Mar 17 00:10 |
| oiaohm | DRM depends on device id of someform. | Mar 17 00:10 |
| Balrog_ | encodes button presses into signals that won't get distorted by music or noise | Mar 17 00:11 |
| Balrog_ | They deny it has any form of authentication | Mar 17 00:11 |
| Balrog_ | it's only "control" | Mar 17 00:11 |
| oiaohm | Does the device have a software extractable serial number. | Mar 17 00:11 |
| oiaohm | Ie not doing the authentication. Providing the information for authentication is what I am thinking. | Mar 17 00:12 |
| oiaohm | Control device would be a good place to put it where a person cannot replace it without stuffing the complete unit. | Mar 17 00:12 |
| oiaohm | Heck it where I would put it if I could not embed it in the cpu. | Mar 17 00:14 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 00:14 | |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: yes, it sure does (the hardware SN is burned in ROM) | Mar 17 00:14 |
| Balrog_ | << Does the device have a software extractable serial number. | Mar 17 00:15 |
| Balrog_ | "Control device would be a good place to put it where a person cannot replace it without stuffing the complete unit." ... | Mar 17 00:15 |
| oiaohm | There you go then why does the device need to provide a serial number if its only a keyboard. | Mar 17 00:15 |
| Balrog_ | It would be *stupid* to put the SN in the headphones | Mar 17 00:16 |
| Balrog_ | is the device providing the serial number? do you know? | Mar 17 00:16 |
| Balrog_ | (to the headphones) | Mar 17 00:16 |
| oiaohm | Depends how big of a prick you want to be Balrog_ | Mar 17 00:16 |
| oiaohm | Person must use the same headphones to play there music would kinda drive them up wall. | Mar 17 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | what I don't like is that groups like the EFF jump to conclusions without proof | Mar 17 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: that's true right now .... once they reverse engineer the control scheme, won't be true anymore | Mar 17 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | shouldn't be more than a few weeks | Mar 17 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | another tipster says the chip is relatively easy to clone (a fact Apple strangely corroborates) | Mar 17 00:17 |
| Balrog_ | << quote | Mar 17 00:18 |
| oiaohm | A rom is really ease to clone too. | Mar 17 00:18 |
| Balrog_ | << they denied the fact that there's any encryption or authentication in the chip | Mar 17 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Remember the old quake network where two ids the same would lock both users out. | Mar 17 00:18 |
| Balrog_ | how is that relevant here? | Mar 17 00:19 |
| oiaohm | Having a id on chip is not encryption or authentication processing. | Mar 17 00:19 |
| oiaohm | I am looking at the chip as providing the id for the authentication system. | Mar 17 00:19 |
| Balrog_ | what will the id do on the chip? The SN can't be in the headphones, for obvious reasons | Mar 17 00:19 |
| Balrog_ | (lose them and .....?) | Mar 17 00:19 |
| Balrog_ | you mean password-based authentication? That's still an authentication chip | Mar 17 00:20 |
| oiaohm | No. | Mar 17 00:20 |
| Balrog_ | it's part of the authentication system | Mar 17 00:20 |
| oiaohm | Take windows genuine advantage one of the most hated drm systems. | Mar 17 00:20 |
| oiaohm | It extracts serial numbers from stack of different devices to build it system id. | Mar 17 00:21 |
| oiaohm | serial numbers software extractable are the base to lot of DRM engines. | Mar 17 00:21 |
| Balrog_ | how do you guarantee that any 'official' headphones will work? | Mar 17 00:21 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: did you hear of the itunes gift card codes being broken | Mar 17 00:22 |
| Balrog_ | and fake cards being sold in china? | Mar 17 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Same way as XP. There are like 5 key devices XP uses. | Mar 17 00:22 |
| oiaohm | cpu motherboard videocard harddrive and network card. | Mar 17 00:23 |
| oiaohm | Now if 1 of them is non functional or changed the drm still works. | Mar 17 00:23 |
| oiaohm | Ie some people with broken ipods might find everything keeps on working until they change headphones. | Mar 17 00:24 |
| oiaohm | Key reducency. Would make sence to put in multiable keys. Also could be used in future for transfering music between devices. Ie plug you head phones into a different ipod to id it as you. | Mar 17 00:25 |
| oiaohm | There are many ways to use serial numbers in a DRM system. | Mar 17 00:25 |
| oiaohm | Key to DRM is id user threw some means. Problem is no system of that is impossable. | Mar 17 00:26 |
| oiaohm | itunes breached gift cards could have been blocked a lot sooner. I hope that explains it for you Balrog_ | Mar 17 00:27 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: that kind of DRM is inconvenient | Mar 17 00:27 |
| Balrog_ | sure they could | Mar 17 00:27 |
| Balrog_ | (meaning "Ie plug you head phones into a different ipod to id it as you.") | Mar 17 00:27 |
| oiaohm | Important question is why does head phones need an exposed serial number. | Mar 17 00:28 |
| Balrog_ | the only reason you'd id it as you is if you're transferring protected music to it | Mar 17 00:28 |
| Balrog_ | do the headphones *have* an exposed serial number? | Mar 17 00:28 |
| Balrog_ | the device (ipod) does | Mar 17 00:28 |
| Balrog_ | but the headphones? no one has verified it | Mar 17 00:29 |
| oiaohm | Some usb headphones on windows do. | Mar 17 00:29 |
| Balrog_ | then we have to wait until an EE or someone with that kind of experience reverses the protocol | Mar 17 00:30 |
| Balrog_ | I'm sure it will be quick; the headphones-industry is probably already working on it :P | Mar 17 00:30 |
| oiaohm | Basically the id's to make up DRM can basically be placed anywhere. | Mar 17 00:30 |
| oiaohm | Perferabley in locations that changing will destroy the system. | Mar 17 00:30 |
| Balrog_ | sure they can....but *are they?* | Mar 17 00:31 |
| oiaohm | Inside CPU is the most prized location | Mar 17 00:31 |
| Balrog_ | yes. The Wii has keys burned inside the CPU on first run in factory | Mar 17 00:31 |
| oiaohm | Next is inside GPU and screens. | Mar 17 00:31 |
| Balrog_ | (actually not CPU, but GPU. | Mar 17 00:31 |
| Balrog_ | ) | Mar 17 00:31 |
| Balrog_ | it has a system where an ARM core in the GPU boots the system | Mar 17 00:32 |
| Balrog_ | *wii | Mar 17 00:32 |
| Balrog_ | HDCP works like that? | Mar 17 00:32 |
| oiaohm | HDCP yes uses deencryption screen side. | Mar 17 00:32 |
| Balrog_ | so I thought. | Mar 17 00:32 |
| oiaohm | Basically the more crippling the location to change you can put it the better. | Mar 17 00:33 |
| Balrog_ | Yes. | Mar 17 00:33 |
| oiaohm | keyboards mice and headphones are kinda well done the list. | Mar 17 00:33 |
| Balrog_ | but why would DRM be necessary in headphones? | Mar 17 00:33 |
| Balrog_ | its analog; anyone can cut the headphone wires and solder a jack to the end | Mar 17 00:34 |
| Balrog_ | (who knows how to solder :P ) | Mar 17 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Could be watermarking. | Mar 17 00:34 |
| Balrog_ | I don't think that tiny chip is powerful enough to do that. | Mar 17 00:34 |
| Balrog_ | watermarking in an identifiable way is quite complicated; better suited for the device, not the headphones | Mar 17 00:35 |
| oiaohm | So that everything played threw that headphone has something hidden in what sounds like minor interference that ids it. | Mar 17 00:35 |
| Balrog_ | watermarking to the headphone is stupid, as headphones are easily discarded | Mar 17 00:35 |
| oiaohm | Its more court evidence. | Mar 17 00:35 |
| oiaohm | so if the device and the headphone both watermark you know when you have the complete kit what was providing the illegal source. | Mar 17 00:36 |
| oiaohm | There are many things they could be doing detecting watermarking when you don't know the method is really hard. | Mar 17 00:37 |
| oiaohm | The different between watermark and minor quaility problems can be nothing when inspecting audio output. | Mar 17 00:38 |
| oiaohm | Watermaking only needs a powerful chip if what it doing is not locked in stone when the device was produced. | Mar 17 00:38 |
| Balrog_ | but headphones don't last forever, and people replace them very often. | Mar 17 00:39 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: all of this is pure theory | Mar 17 00:43 |
| Balrog_ | until someone reverses the chip's workings, it won't be known | Mar 17 00:43 |
| oiaohm | As you can now see not enough reseach is done yet to see one way or the other. | Mar 17 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Apple saying no not that does not cover everything. | Mar 17 00:44 |
| Balrog_ | yes, because the product is so new. | Mar 17 00:45 |
| Balrog_ | yes, what Apple is saying doesn't cover everything, but what the EFF said was alarmist | Mar 17 00:45 |
| Balrog_ | and without much evidence. | Mar 17 00:45 |
| Balrog_ | very bad for publicity | Mar 17 00:45 |
| Balrog_ | (for the EFF that is) | Mar 17 00:53 |
| schestowitz | Hey, Glenn Beck! < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1... > | Mar 17 00:58 |
| balzac | beck is such a swine | Mar 17 01:00 |
| balzac | actually though, i should not insult any animal by comparing glenn beckkk to them | Mar 17 01:01 |
| schestowitz | Why do they have 'em on TV? | Mar 17 01:02 |
| schestowitz | O'Reilly too | Mar 17 01:02 |
| Balrog_ | limbaugh is worse | Mar 17 01:02 |
| Balrog_ | :( | Mar 17 01:02 |
| schestowitz | Making a "Jesusland" as some people call it | Mar 17 01:02 |
| schestowitz | A nation whole president is driven by Gods too | Mar 17 01:03 |
| balzac | because certain closet-nazis also happen to be billionaires | Mar 17 01:03 |
| schestowitz | It's very scary | Mar 17 01:03 |
| balzac | so they shell out $50M to each of these hate-propagandists | Mar 17 01:03 |
| schestowitz | A nation whose military budget exceeds by far all other nations' _combined_. And wars are driven by religion to an extent. | Mar 17 01:03 |
| balzac | There ought to be a vampire hunter to find the billionaire patrons who fund these hate-mongers | Mar 17 01:04 |
| schestowitz | balzac: they get 'em cheap | Mar 17 01:04 |
| balzac | and drive a bloody stake through his vampire heart! | Mar 17 01:04 |
| schestowitz | Consider how much money Exxon can make when the 'intellectual' (pseudos) lead the country to war against places like Iran. | Mar 17 01:04 |
| balzac | Well, Simon Weisenthal couldn't find them all. They stashed away a lot of gold, and that is what funds Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, and others. | Mar 17 01:05 |
| schestowitz | This one's even stronger (language warning): Links 16/03/2009: Cloudera Debuts, OpenOffice.org 3.0.x Approaches 50 Million Downloads | Mar 17 01:05 |
| balzac | It's the old nazi gold stash. | Mar 17 01:05 |
| balzac | of course now they pretend to embrace Israel, but all of their fake "support" for Israel actually undermines Israeli national security and increases tension with their neighbors. | Mar 17 01:06 |
| balzac | Netinyahu is praised by guys like Bush, Limbaugh and Beck. That's a signal that Israeli foreign policy is not on track. | Mar 17 01:07 |
| schestowitz | Yuck | Mar 17 01:08 |
| schestowitz | The guys is a criminal | Mar 17 01:08 |
| schestowitz | Bribes and all. | Mar 17 01:08 |
| balzac | I was hoping livni would get control | Mar 17 01:09 |
| schestowitz | You know countries head the wrong way when they vote for cons | Mar 17 01:09 |
| schestowitz | You probably know these politics better than I | Mar 17 01:09 |
| schestowitz | All I know is that, as you say, all those war mongers are causing a conflict that's unnecessary | Mar 17 01:09 |
| balzac | but the old sith lord, shimon peres couldn't let a woman be prime minister | Mar 17 01:09 |
| balzac | Livni got more votes than Netinyahu | Mar 17 01:10 |
| schestowitz | "Clash of Civilisation," as Said calls it | Mar 17 01:10 |
| schestowitz | *sations | Mar 17 01:10 |
| balzac | I know Israeli politics like a redsox fan knows baseball. (mild exaggeration) | Mar 17 01:10 |
| schestowitz | Well, if a crooks runs this country, this says a lot where it's going | Mar 17 01:11 |
| balzac | The problem is that the christian fundies are influencing Israeli politics | Mar 17 01:11 |
| schestowitz | But anyway, it's OT, I guess. more like -social | Mar 17 01:11 |
| balzac | yeah | Mar 17 01:12 |
| *Balrog_ has quit () | Mar 17 01:12 | |
| balzac | I just learned a new shortcut | Mar 17 01:12 |
| balzac | ctrl alt f1 for a terminal | Mar 17 01:12 |
| balzac | ctrl alt f7 for return to window manager | Mar 17 01:12 |
| balzac | I wonder if I can toggle between several logged in users with the function keys | Mar 17 01:14 |
| schestowitz | gn | Mar 17 01:17 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-160-88.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 01:26 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) | Mar 17 01:33 | |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-175-173.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 01:34 | |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-59-102.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 01:39 | |
| *amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 01:44 | |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 01:48 | |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-10-42.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 01:48 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 01:51 | |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-52-179.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 01:57 | |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-127-91.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 02:06 | |
| oiaohm | Yes you can balzac but I don't recommend doing it a lot unless you are using video drivers taht are Nvidia's until dri 2 becomes common on everything else | Mar 17 02:08 |
| *amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 02:12 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 02:22 | |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-57-48.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 02:23 | |
| user switching works great with nv and other free drivers. | Mar 17 02:29 | |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-236-103.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 02:29 | |
| kicker's got "start new session" right on the root menu. It generally goes to vt8, reached via alt-f8 | Mar 17 02:31 | |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 02:37 | |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-191-151.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 02:39 | |
| *amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 02:44 | |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-211-151.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 02:50 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 02:53 | |
| *spybot (i=18531591@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d1de7e1acf9fc1e5) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 02:53 | |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-154-185.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 02:54 | |
| spybot | debugmode=1 | Mar 17 02:54 |
| spybot | Shell> | Mar 17 02:55 |
| spybot | Command received, closing connection | Mar 17 02:56 |
| *spybot has quit (Client Quit) | Mar 17 02:56 | |
| California uber M$ http://tech.slashdot.or... | Mar 17 02:58 | |
| there's an effort doomed to fail. | Mar 17 02:58 | |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 03:02 | |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-196-243.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 03:04 | |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("Leaving") | Mar 17 03:10 | |
| *amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 03:11 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 03:16 | |
| *zer0c00l (n=student@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 03:21 | |
| *PeterFA has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Mar 17 03:29 | |
| *PeterFA (n=Peter@unaffiliated/peterfa) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 03:30 | |
| *PeterFA has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Mar 17 03:42 | |
| *ChanServ has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Mar 17 03:42 | |
| *ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 03:43 | |
| *PeterFA (n=Peter@unaffiliated/peterfa) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 03:43 | |
| *irc.freenode.net gives channel operator status to ChanServ | Mar 17 03:43 | |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Mar 17 03:57 | |
| zer0c00l | "each academic year we *reward* and recognize the most talented students from around the world for their *dedication*,*passion* and involvement with microsoft" http://student-partners.com/ | Mar 17 04:20 |
| zer0c00l | yet another m$ brain washed kid :( http://micro-touch.blogspot.com/ | Mar 17 04:21 |
| zer0c00l | Microsoft Dreamspark is for now High schools in india http://micro-touch.blogspot.com/2009/03/m... | Mar 17 04:22 |
| zer0c00l | High schools is the place where Gnu/Linux adoption is more in india | Mar 17 04:22 |
| zer0c00l | http://dreamsparkindia.com/drea... (Microsoft and MTV tie up to get the youth addicted) | Mar 17 04:27 |
| zer0c00l | http://www.sakshat.ac.in I dont know whether its a educational institution or not they are supporting dream spark | Mar 17 04:35 |
| amarsh04 | don't worry, I've seen students in South Australia getting excited about getting discounts on M$ development tools when the GNU equivalents are FREE | Mar 17 04:50 |
| zer0c00l | ya | Mar 17 04:51 |
| zer0c00l | :-) | Mar 17 04:51 |
| amarsh04 | there are good free IDE's for Ada and Java and Pascal | Mar 17 04:52 |
| zer0c00l | Eclipse ? | Mar 17 04:53 |
| amarsh04 | and GRASP for Java, GNAT-GPS for Ada | Mar 17 04:53 |
| *zer0c00l looks | Mar 17 04:53 | |
| amarsh04 | www.jgrasp.org | Mar 17 04:54 |
| zer0c00l | yeah | Mar 17 04:55 |
| amarsh04 | but the ability to program using nothing more than vi and gcc is also good | Mar 17 04:55 |
| zer0c00l | :-) | Mar 17 04:56 |
| *zer0c00l agrees | Mar 17 04:56 | |
| *zer0c00l downloads jgrasp :) | Mar 17 04:56 | |
| zer0c00l | http://spider.eng.auburn.edu/user-cgi... " Please do not redistribute jGRASP (except within a single organization) without approval. " is it licensed under GPL? | Mar 17 04:58 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.9.22) has left #boycottnovell | Mar 17 05:14 | |
| zer0c00l | Malicious spam attacks again http://www.f-secure.com/web... | Mar 17 05:21 |
| *[H]omer has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Mar 17 05:38 | |
| *[H]omer (n=[H]omer@moscow.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 05:41 | |
| *irc.freenode.net gives channel operator status to [H]omer | Mar 17 05:41 | |
| *[H]omer has quit (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Mar 17 05:53 | |
| *[H]omer (n=[H]omer@moscow.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 05:54 | |
| *irc.freenode.net gives channel operator status to [H]omer | Mar 17 05:54 | |
| zer0c00l | g2g | Mar 17 06:06 |
| zer0c00l | time for boring theory classes | Mar 17 06:06 |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("Leaving") | Mar 17 06:06 | |
| schestowitz | Hey | Mar 17 07:57 |
| kentma1 | hi folks | Mar 17 08:24 |
| schestowitz | Morning, kentma1 | Mar 17 08:24 |
| kentma1 | hi schestowitz | Mar 17 08:36 |
| kentma1 | I might have 2 days leave this week - yay! | Mar 17 08:36 |
| schestowitz | Cool! | Mar 17 08:44 |
| *mib_ymqy6g (i=8258be83@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3d20720d3bec8423) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 09:05 | |
| *mib_ymqy6g has quit (Client Quit) | Mar 17 09:05 | |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-191-78.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 09:07 | |
| MinceR | geekings | Mar 17 09:08 |
| schestowitz | All your albums are[sic] belong to Google Ads: Google Adds AdWords to Picasa < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/... > | Mar 17 09:10 |
| zoobab01 | 5B5B | Mar 17 09:14 |
| schestowitz | Former Newspaper Journalists Not Missing A Beat < http://techdirt.com/articles/2... > | Mar 17 09:15 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: check out http://www.pcworld.com/article/161348/ni... and http://www.pcworld.com/article/161294/... | Mar 17 09:16 |
| schestowitz | White-collar crime runs rampant while they spend time chasing this: http://techdirt.com/articles/... (Feds Ask For Jailtime For GNR File Sharer) | Mar 17 09:20 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 09:22 | |
| oiaohm | Good that joystick patent is gone. | Mar 17 09:28 |
| oiaohm | Linux on PS3 is getting more useful now that using memory in the graphic controller is possiable. | Mar 17 09:32 |
| zoobab01 | http://press.ffii.org/Press_releases/... | Mar 17 09:34 |
| oiaohm | http://www.cyrius.com/debian/kir... << Could add new meaning to were did I leave that server. | Mar 17 09:38 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: alarmist or true? | Mar 17 09:49 |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-149-13.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 10:27 | |
| oiaohm | Possiable true. | Mar 17 10:28 |
| oiaohm | In theory software patents could be validated by a court test case without any Parliament involement. | Mar 17 10:29 |
| schestowitz | I'm writing about this quickly. | Mar 17 10:30 |
| oiaohm | Everything else has failed to get software patents up. Try the legal back door. | Mar 17 10:30 |
| oiaohm | Then everyone would have to get got uninited to vote it down. | Mar 17 10:31 |
| oiaohm | Using the back door European Parliament can still out law it. | Mar 17 10:31 |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 10:45 | |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: The FFII alerts that the EPO is trying to legalise software patents: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/17/... | Mar 17 11:05 |
| schestowitz | Gavin Clarke goes on the attack on Opera right now (defending Microsoft and Silver Lie, as expected). Where did The Register pick these people up?? | Mar 17 11:31 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft’s fledgling Azure Services platform, a beta offering that offers cloud computing services, suffered a 22 hour outage this weekend. " http://www.liveside.net/main/archive/... | Mar 17 11:35 |
| schestowitz | Web scam hoodwinks web founding father < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... > | Mar 17 11:36 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04__: HP skims another 10% off some EDS workers' pay packets < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/... >. At least the CEO doesn't take bonuses? | Mar 17 11:37 |
| *mib_9t70qi (i=c1db48fa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-03fe73879b0c56e4) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 11:40 | |
| *mib_9t70qi has quit (Client Quit) | Mar 17 11:40 | |
| *myRicky_cn (n=51qqhe@123.125.10.141) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 11:44 | |
| *myRicky_cn (n=51qqhe@123.125.10.141) has left #boycottnovell | Mar 17 11:49 | |
| schestowitz | Interesting question: Would You Use Linux If It Were Just Another Proprietary OS? < http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2009/03/12/w... > | Mar 17 12:06 |
| MinceR | it kind of leaves what "linux" would be then undefined | Mar 17 12:13 |
| MinceR | would *bsd-s be free software in that hypothetical world? | Mar 17 12:13 |
| MinceR | (assuming that linux could be what it is while being proprietary, which it couldn't) | Mar 17 12:13 |
| *mib_il2lrt (i=8258be83@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-71fec3eae0ffa83f) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 12:26 | |
| kentma1 | just seen a fascinating white paper showing the carrier grade ethernet - PBB-TE is about 50% of the cost of an MPLS network to do the same thing... | Mar 17 12:27 |
| *mib_il2lrt has quit (Client Quit) | Mar 17 12:27 | |
| oiaohm | In some fields Linux is used because its opensource and can be altered to task. | Mar 17 12:27 |
| oiaohm | So proprietary would kill of lot of Linux advantages. | Mar 17 12:28 |
| kentma1 | and you can do pbb-te on linux :-) | Mar 17 12:28 |
| oiaohm | http://mpls-linux.sourceforge.net/ You can also do MPLS on Linux. | Mar 17 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Makes a good bridge between the two. | Mar 17 12:31 |
| schestowitz | Maybe GNU/Linux appeal comes from this too: Is There a Reverse Network Effect with Scale? < http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/is_th... > | Mar 17 12:43 |
| schestowitz | Twitter Now Growing at a Staggering 1,382 Percent < http://mashable.com/2009/03/1... > | Mar 17 12:45 |
| oiaohm | Yes the Reverse Network Effect applies to Linux. | Mar 17 12:45 |
| oiaohm | Reason why the maintainers network was formed in Linux to combat the problem in the kernel project schestowitz | Mar 17 12:46 |
| schestowitz | SA for FOSS: Government CIOs keen on open source software < http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4366 > | Mar 17 12:49 |
| *zer0c00l (n=zer0c00l@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 12:53 | |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmmm.... Police station bombed in Tibetan area of China < http://www.iht.com/articles/2009... > | Mar 17 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Ok that expains it. I was reading SA as South Australia. | Mar 17 12:53 |
| schestowitz | New South Wales.... | Mar 17 12:55 |
| schestowitz | Why ZDNet sucks? Murphy can't even spell the product he writes about: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=1549 (it's not "PostgresSQL") | Mar 17 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Thats another state. | Mar 17 12:59 |
| schestowitz | he can't spell Ubuntu either | Mar 17 12:59 |
| schestowitz | He writes Redhat and Ubantu | Mar 17 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Of course not. | Mar 17 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Cannot spell competition right or people might be able to search for it. | Mar 17 13:00 |
| schestowitz | Haha! | Mar 17 13:00 |
| zer0c00l | Zdnet? its microsofts press right? | Mar 17 13:00 |
| schestowitz | Sort of | Mar 17 13:00 |
| schestowitz | See yesterday's post about Ziff-David (in BN) | Mar 17 13:00 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/... | Mar 17 13:00 |
| schestowitz | “A verbal memo [no email allowed] was passed around the MS campus encouraging MS employee’s to post to ZDNet articles like this one,” the email said. < http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/... > | Mar 17 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Redhat appears to be arming for a war. | Mar 17 13:09 |
| oiaohm | By there patent move. | Mar 17 13:09 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure | Mar 17 13:12 |
| schestowitz | What type of war can this be? Patent trolls? Microsoft? I doubt it, yet. | Mar 17 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Redhat is still on time table to reenter the battle for desktop. | Mar 17 13:17 |
| oiaohm | When they do it will most likely cause some conflits. | Mar 17 13:17 |
| oiaohm | Redhats plan for desktop is complete. | Mar 17 13:17 |
| oiaohm | freeipa to manage clients. Virtualisation to run windows. Central server support for running applications. Means to transfer applications between machines... And the list goes on. | Mar 17 13:17 |
| MinceR | zer0c00l: afaik microsoft has many "press" companies working for them already | Mar 17 13:18 |
| MinceR | zdnet, idc/idg, dunno what else | Mar 17 13:18 |
| zer0c00l | MinceR: ok | Mar 17 13:18 |
| MinceR | i suspect RH wants to counter patent threats to themselves by patent threats of their own. | Mar 17 13:19 |
| oiaohm | Redhat is following the IBM model. | Mar 17 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Of patent aquirement. | Mar 17 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Basically protect something you need by placing patents around it so if anyone trys to attack you on it they have steped on a land mines. | Mar 17 13:21 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: there are many more. Washington Post, CNET, the Seattle press..... | Mar 17 13:23 |
| MinceR | Reverse Network Effect on Linux: i'd expect the snobs who want to use/develop something few people care about have already left for *bsd. | Mar 17 13:34 |
| oiaohm | Linus got to the point he was dealing with too many people. | Mar 17 13:42 |
| oiaohm | could not work out who to trust. | Mar 17 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Normally that would mean network effect kicked in and did damage. | Mar 17 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Linus smarter. Appointed maintainers he trusted to run particular sections. | Mar 17 13:42 |
| MinceR | afaik he solved that by adding structure | Mar 17 13:42 |
| MinceR | indeed | Mar 17 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Yep without structure Linux would have failed due to the Reverse Network Effect | Mar 17 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Human mind has limits. | Mar 17 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Other open source projects have gone splat due to the Reverse Network effect. Not smart enough maintainer. Result of not building in structor is infighting breaking out inside the project. | Mar 17 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Yes if ever running a large project keep Reverse Network Effect in mind. | Mar 17 13:45 |
| MinceR | i'm not sure this is really the RNE that article mentions | Mar 17 13:46 |
| MinceR | what you're talking about is an administration issue; the other one is a social issue | Mar 17 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Its both. | Mar 17 13:46 |
| oiaohm | If you don't administrator to prevent RNE. RNE ends up causing social issues. | Mar 17 13:47 |
| MinceR | from the administration standpoint, it doesn't matter how many people you have as long as you can work out a structure to manage them | Mar 17 13:48 |
| oiaohm | RNE is the result if you don't manage them. | Mar 17 13:48 |
| MinceR | but from the social standpoint, the more people you have the less being a member of that group sets you apart from other people. | Mar 17 13:48 |
| schestowitz | g2g for a while... | Mar 17 13:49 |
| oiaohm | That social standpoint also prevents trust if you are spreed too thin. | Mar 17 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Lack of trust will bring projects down. | Mar 17 13:49 |
| schestowitz | I am looking to extend my passport which expires within a few months. I have attempted to contact the consulate here in Manchester by phone about a dozen times, but I was never able to get an answer, not by phone anyway. It is as though nobody is there and it becomes a matter of more urgency. | Mar 17 13:50 |
| schestowitz | I'll be back later | Mar 17 13:50 |
| schestowitz | German embassy again.. | Mar 17 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Linux and Open Source development is part social. That breaking down has major effects. | Mar 17 13:51 |
| oiaohm | Its a simple case if you have 10000 people in a room. They cannot get there point accross. Now if you break that 10000 people down into smaller groups of common interests there points can get accross because its organised. | Mar 17 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Also room full of 10000 people most people will not trust anyone in there. | Mar 17 13:53 |
| oiaohm | RNE. Result of poor management. | Mar 17 13:53 |
| oiaohm | You should never find RNE inside a well managed company MinceR | Mar 17 13:54 |
| MinceR | companies aren't the same kind of community though :) | Mar 17 13:55 |
| MinceR | money motivates people to stay inside. | Mar 17 13:55 |
| oiaohm | I have found RNE inside failing companies. | Mar 17 13:55 |
| oiaohm | Basically everyone not trusting anyone else in the company because they really did not know each other. | Mar 17 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Most common cause in RNE inside a companies is Idea thiefs. | Mar 17 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Basically RNE is part of human nature. We are not built to build trust with large groups. | Mar 17 13:58 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Mar 17 14:10 | |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 14:58 | |
| *Eruaran has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Mar 17 15:09 | |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 15:11 | |
| *trmanco1 (n=trmanco_@bl8-228-67.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 15:17 | |
| *trmanco1 is now known as trmanco_ | Mar 17 15:18 | |
| *[H]omer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Mar 17 15:19 | |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.51.139) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 15:26 | |
| 100 reasons GNU/Linux is better than Vista. http://www.itwire.com/cont... | Mar 17 15:36 | |
| Balrog | hello everyone | Mar 17 15:39 |
| zer0c00l | http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/... | Mar 17 15:47 |
| zer0c00l | TOYA=Talkin' Out Your A**. | Mar 17 15:48 |
| *Eruaran has quit ("No Ping reply in 30 seconds.") | Mar 17 15:49 | |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 15:50 | |
| *trmanco_ (n=trmanco_@bl8-228-67.dsl.telepac.pt) has left #boycottnovell | Mar 17 15:52 | |
| vista failure log updated with the 100 reasons GNU/Linux is better than Vista list http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855 | Mar 17 15:52 | |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.23.17) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 15:58 | |
| Omar87 | Hi | Mar 17 15:58 |
| Omar87 | Anyone knows the EXT file system's under what license? Is it GPL? | Mar 17 15:59 |
| I'm sure there's more than one implementation. | Mar 17 16:04 | |
| the Linux kernel implementation is still GPL 2 as far as I know. | Mar 17 16:05 | |
| dig around a little and find out http://www.google.com/search?q=sit... | Mar 17 16:07 | |
| I did not see anything interesting | Mar 17 16:07 | |
| Balrog | I believe it's GPL, let me check. | Mar 17 16:09 |
| the source code itself should say, but I don't have a recent copy | Mar 17 16:09 | |
| Balrog | where is the source code? in the kernel? | Mar 17 16:10 |
| should be | Mar 17 16:10 | |
| Balrog | Though there are probably multiple implementations...?? | Mar 17 16:11 |
| how to get Debian's copy. http://kernel-handbook.aliot... | Mar 17 16:11 | |
| sure there are multiple implementations. EXT is not a secret. | Mar 17 16:11 | |
| Balrog | or patented :P ... then it could not be GPL though. | Mar 17 16:12 |
| I imagine BSD distributions have an implementation, freedos, and so on and so forth. I've even heard someone made one for Windows, which makes W32 nasties a subtle threat to GNU/Linux for dual boot people. | Mar 17 16:13 | |
| botnet people can upload ext drivers and modify people's gnu/linux | Mar 17 16:13 | |
| as usual, security and privacy are only as strong as the weakest link in your chain | Mar 17 16:14 | |
| MinceR | it could be GPL even if it was patented | Mar 17 16:15 |
| virus implementations, gotta be public domain. | Mar 17 16:15 | |
| not GPL 3 | Mar 17 16:15 | |
| MinceR | well, virus implementations could be illegal to spread | Mar 17 16:15 |
| MinceR | it's not like the implementors care :> | Mar 17 16:15 |
| right | Mar 17 16:15 | |
| Balrog | twitter: there is a proprietary implementation for windows. | Mar 17 16:16 |
| Balrog | It's buggy though, I hear :( | Mar 17 16:16 |
| Balrog | ex2ifs | Mar 17 16:16 |
| if it runs of windows, it will be buggy | Mar 17 16:16 | |
| windows is bad for you | Mar 17 16:16 | |
| Balrog | not in that sense; rather, it has damaged people's ext2/3 partitions | Mar 17 16:17 |
| blows it away in all cases? ha! perfect | Mar 17 16:17 | |
| Balrog | not all cases; occasionally | Mar 17 16:17 |
| MinceR | it could even be GPL3, if the copyright holder owned the patent or could sublicense it or whatever | Mar 17 16:17 |
| Balrog | ext2fsd is probably more stable, and is foss | Mar 17 16:18 |
| uh, no. GPL 3 expressly forbids patents. they would have to license it as something else. | Mar 17 16:18 | |
| Balrog | what about if a company is open-sourcing something that already has patents that they own? | Mar 17 16:19 |
| Balrog | they *can't* use GPL 3? | Mar 17 16:19 |
| not for patented code | Mar 17 16:19 | |
| http://www.fsf.org/licensing/li... | Mar 17 16:20 | |
| MinceR | iirc GPL3 requires that patents be accessible, not that they not exist | Mar 17 16:20 |
| Balrog | twitter: not true | Mar 17 16:21 |
| Balrog | Whenever someone conveys software covered by GPLv3 that they've written or modified, they must provide every recipient with any patent licenses necessary to exercise the rights that the GPL gives them. In addition to that, if any licensee tries to use a patent suit to stop another user from exercising those rights, their license will be terminated. | Mar 17 16:21 |
| Balrog | << http://www.gnu.org/licenses... | Mar 17 16:21 |
| MinceR | i was just about to paste that :) | Mar 17 16:21 |
| Balrog | :P | Mar 17 16:21 |
| well, a patent you can't use is about as good as useless as it gets. | Mar 17 16:22 | |
| Balrog | true. | Mar 17 16:22 |
| thanks for reminding me | Mar 17 16:23 | |
| the difference is subtle and very GPL like in it's effective subversion of evil laws. | Mar 17 16:23 | |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.51.139) has left #boycottnovell | Mar 17 16:24 | |
| as usual, the rule of, "If you want the good things I have, you must play nice" is enforced. | Mar 17 16:24 | |
| you have to love the flow chart, where everything flows to GPL3 | Mar 17 16:25 | |
| bbl, keep up the good work. | Mar 17 16:26 | |
| Balrog | what's red hat doing? | Mar 17 16:26 |
| Balrog | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2... | Mar 17 16:26 |
| Balrog | twitter, works unless something is licensed under GPL2 only ... like the kernel | Mar 17 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Australian hacker sentenced for 3 years < http://news.zdnet.com/2100-... > | Mar 17 16:27 |
| Balrog | what's this with redhat now? | Mar 17 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: see BN | Mar 17 16:27 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03... | Mar 17 16:31 |
| Balrog | I see. | Mar 17 16:35 |
| Balrog | iphone 3.0 software demo in 17 minutes | Mar 17 16:39 |
| Balrog | live coverage : http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/03/li... | Mar 17 16:39 |
| Balrog | (I wonder what they're up to this time.....) | Mar 17 16:39 |
| *trmanco1 (n=trmanco_@bl8-228-67.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 17 16:41 | |
| schestowitz | live coverage? | Mar 17 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Sounds ritual. | Mar 17 16:44 |
| Balrog | yeah, the rumor sites always do it | Mar 17 16:46 |
| Balrog | this time it's only one though | Mar 17 16:46 |
| *schestowitz concerned about iheadphones | Mar 17 16:46 | |
| Balrog | (ars) | Mar 17 16:46 |
| schestowitz | brb | Mar 17 16:46 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: I'm not too concerned ... the larger ipods will never lose buttons on device. | Mar 17 16:47 |
| Balrog | if /that/ happened, people would be mad. | Mar 17 16:47 |
| MinceR | it's a religion. it's always ritual. | Mar 17 16:49 |
| Balrog | MinceR: I don't agree, but that's true about a lot of things you say. | Mar 17 16:50 |
| Balrog | At video game console announcements there is often live coverage | Mar 17 16:50 |
| MinceR | Balrog: i didn't expect you to agree. :> | Mar 17 16:50 |
| Balrog | heh. This premature reaction to the headphones is troubling, I think. No one did any reverse engineering to see if there is 'DRM' and yet they all yelled about it | Mar 17 16:51 |
| Balrog | (I'm worried about the EFF's credibility suffering due to this. They usually are on the mark with what they say.) | Mar 17 16:52 |
| MinceR | i'm sure crApple will release a full datasheet that will tell you which chips do DRM and which don't. :> | Mar 17 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: agreed | Mar 17 16:58 |
| schestowitz | I haven't wiritten about the headphones yet because Apple says nothing. | Mar 17 16:59 |
| Balrog | Apple says it's not DRM, but I'm not waiting for them | Mar 17 16:59 |
| schestowitz | When they make up their mind, they'll probably have the FSF/DBD on their arss :-) | Mar 17 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: it's lockin | Mar 17 16:59 |
| Balrog | I'm waiting for (a) third-party headphone prices to appear and (b) someone to reverse-engineer it | Mar 17 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Non-interop even in headphones | Mar 17 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Imagine headphones without common sockets | Mar 17 16:59 |
| Balrog | it would be nice if they could release this like they did mini-displayporty | Mar 17 17:00 |
| Balrog | s/y/ | Mar 17 17:00 |
| MinceR | i wouldn't mind a better kind of jack, but it's got to be standard | Mar 17 17:00 |
| Balrog | just release the signaling protocol, that's all! | Mar 17 17:00 |
| MinceR | (in general -- i don't plan on buying any apple products) | Mar 17 17:01 |
| Balrog | new features for developers in 3.0 | Mar 17 17:01 |
| Balrog | ..... | Mar 17 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Apple denies mystery chip is DRM - It is all about control http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n... | Mar 17 17:01 |
| Balrog | they also say it's easy to reverse engineer. | Mar 17 17:03 |
| Balrog | a number of manufacturers are already offering third party replacements. | Mar 17 17:03 |
| Balrog | << quote | Mar 17 17:03 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* Apple lets unfortunate logo slip < http://www.theinquirer.net/inq... > CUNTphone? | Mar 17 17:05 |
| Balrog | Scott notes that devs are requesting other business models, like subscriptions, additional level charges, and new content for apps. "These days you have to sell one application per book, for example, and developers want a book store built into the app." "Today we're supporting all of these additional business models." "You can now purchase a game that comes wiht 10 levels, and when you're done playing those levels, you can purchase the next 1 | Mar 17 17:05 |
| Balrog | << quote | Mar 17 17:05 |
| Balrog | All of it is tied into the iTunes Store. You're asked for your iTunes password but you remain within the app. | Mar 17 17:06 |