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| Balrog_ | sure they use dynamic linking | Mar 29 22:12 |
|---|---|---|
| MinceR | and with a proper package manager you can do the same | Mar 29 22:13 |
| MinceR | yet you won't have to load the same library into memory multiple times | Mar 29 22:13 |
| Balrog_ | some apps actually do install frameworks in /Library/Frameworks | Mar 29 22:13 |
| MinceR | and you can get bugfixes to libraries | Mar 29 22:13 |
| Balrog_ | that's true with libraries that aren't app specific | Mar 29 22:13 |
| MinceR | well, that kind of blows up the illusion of "self contained apps" then | Mar 29 22:13 |
| Balrog_ | they do that | Mar 29 22:13 |
| Balrog_ | OS X provides most needed libraries | Mar 29 22:13 |
| MinceR | perhaps someday apple fanboys will decide whether they like "self-contained apps" which osx apparently doesn't do or they like what everybody else does | Mar 29 22:14 |
| Balrog_ | explain how it 'doesn't do'... | Mar 29 22:14 |
| MinceR | you've just explained it above | Mar 29 22:14 |
| MinceR | 002154 < Balrog_> some apps actually do install frameworks in /Library/Frameworks | Mar 29 22:14 |
| Balrog_ | that's a few | Mar 29 22:14 |
| Balrog_ | we don't necessarily consider them well behaved | Mar 29 22:14 |
| MinceR | oh, i see | Mar 29 22:15 |
| MinceR | so apple fanboys think they're smarter than apple | Mar 29 22:15 |
| MinceR | that's nice | Mar 29 22:15 |
| Balrog_ | it's easy enough to put a library in one app and have another app that is from the same program package call it relatively | Mar 29 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Some Mac installers are huge | Mar 29 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Compared even to Windows | Mar 29 22:15 |
| Balrog_ | schestowitz: remember the fat binaries | Mar 29 22:16 |
| MinceR | by not making apps really self-contained they lose the alleged benefits of them being self-contained | Mar 29 22:16 |
| MinceR | but by making them partially self-contained they manage to retain bloat | Mar 29 22:16 |
| Balrog_ | fat binaries means double the code | Mar 29 22:16 |
| MinceR | trust a bunch of marketers to design an OS well. | Mar 29 22:16 |
| MinceR | ;) | Mar 29 22:16 |
| Balrog_ | os x isn't designed by marketers, or it would be like vista :P | Mar 29 22:17 |
| schestowitz | NVIDIA to buy significant stake in VIA? < http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/28/... > | Mar 29 22:17 |
| MinceR | well, is there anyone who works for apple but isn't a marketer | Mar 29 22:17 |
| MinceR | ? | Mar 29 22:17 |
| Balrog_ | sure there are | Mar 29 22:17 |
| MinceR | oh, wait, they're into patent FUD now, that means they must have an army of lawyers too | Mar 29 22:17 |
| Balrog_ | someone pasted recent apple job postings by them recently; I should have bookmarked it :/ | Mar 29 22:18 |
| MinceR | i'm sure they can make up pretty fancy titles for marketers | Mar 29 22:18 |
| Balrog_ | heh, is anyone not dealing with patents? I mean it's like sue or get sued | Mar 29 22:18 |
| Balrog_ | they recently got sued a couple of times lately.... | Mar 29 22:18 |
| Balrog_ | s/lately/ | Mar 29 22:18 |
| MinceR | and the proper response to that is to spread FUD about competitors | Mar 29 22:19 |
| MinceR | i see | Mar 29 22:19 |
| Balrog_ | well, I didn't hear direct fud | Mar 29 22:19 |
| Balrog_ | like MS does | Mar 29 22:19 |
| MinceR | better watch the news then | Mar 29 22:19 |
| MinceR | it was pretty difficult to miss | Mar 29 22:19 |
| Balrog_ | yes, stuff that could be interpreted as indirect fud | Mar 29 22:19 |
| MinceR | well, good night anyway, i've got to get some rest | Mar 29 22:19 |
| Balrog_ | "we'll defend our IP" | Mar 29 22:19 |
| schestowitz | FUD | Mar 29 22:19 |
| Balrog_ | but so did Pam say that | Mar 29 22:19 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: NVIDIA is hunting x86 licence. | Mar 29 22:19 |
| Balrog_ | Palm * | Mar 29 22:20 |
| schestowitz | What Pam | Mar 29 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Mar 29 22:20 |
| schestowitz | PJ... methought | Mar 29 22:20 |
| Balrog_ | heh | Mar 29 22:20 |
| MinceR | wow, Palm dared to reply after being threatened | Mar 29 22:20 |
| Balrog_ | sorry :/ | Mar 29 22:20 |
| schestowitz | She thinks MS sues Apple by proxy | Mar 29 22:20 |
| schestowitz | The iphone suiots | Mar 29 22:20 |
| MinceR | such nerve they have! | Mar 29 22:20 |
| schestowitz | suits | Mar 29 22:20 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, Intel too | Mar 29 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Will write about it tomorrow | Mar 29 22:20 |
| schestowitz | They countersued | Mar 29 22:20 |
| Balrog_ | Apple has patents and Palm has patents .... I'm sure palm would be able to countersue apple into a cross-licensing agreement, if apple actually was to sue | Mar 29 22:21 |
| Balrog_ | hopefully the lawyers are smarter than that ........ | Mar 29 22:21 |
| schestowitz | What bollox | Mar 29 22:21 |
| Balrog_ | *sigh* | Mar 29 22:21 |
| schestowitz | They don't need that | Mar 29 22:21 |
| schestowitz | They carry on playing with garbage | Mar 29 22:21 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, they don't need it, and they better not do it | Mar 29 22:21 |
| schestowitz | I'll paste here a mail I got this afternoon | Mar 29 22:21 |
| schestowitz | From someone who knows it's a massive bubble | Mar 29 22:21 |
| Balrog_ | you mean the patents? | Mar 29 22:22 |
| Balrog_ | or........? | Mar 29 22:22 |
| schestowitz | "Industry is decoration in the patent struggle. It is about institutional interests, not business interests. I don't fear Microsoft or any other player, including a converted RedHat. I do fear the burst of the patent bubble and the organised irresponsibility of patent offices." | Mar 29 22:22 |
| schestowitz | "So our policy was not attack market players but the system. The description as an industry fight with the large and powerful corporations seeking patents is a self-fulfilling myth. A media pattern. I have to crack the belief system inside industry, not to affirm it." | Mar 29 22:22 |
| schestowitz | "In this case the point to make is the contradiction with the pretended patent policy. All this can well fire back and undermine the very strong public patent position of RedHat." | Mar 29 22:22 |
| Balrog_ | that's about the RedHat patent on a standard? | Mar 29 22:22 |
| schestowitz | Another person: | Mar 29 22:22 |
| schestowitz | "Roy, It's a good article and as usual I wonder how you find the time to do all the research." | Mar 29 22:22 |
| schestowitz | "It is true that attacking Red Hat looks risky (and I've received some very angry mail about my role in that) but to be honest we *do* need their help and over the last years it's been totally absent though we've been very nice to them (in the activism area)." | Mar 29 22:22 |
| schestowitz | "I honestly think Rob Tiller & co. are cynically using the patent system for their firm's own benefit, partly for defensive reasons, but mainly because it's just profitable to be able to kick out competitors like Debian, and that this will start to change when people start to understand, and complain in large numbers." | Mar 29 22:22 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat is no example Balrog | Mar 29 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat could use some toppling for this too | Mar 29 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Which is why I won't try Fedora next (I already use it in some places) | Mar 29 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Debian I can trust | Mar 29 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Even BLAG (pint [H]omer ) | Mar 29 22:23 |
| schestowitz | *ping I meant | Mar 29 22:23 |
| Balrog_ | Fedora doesn't have redhat proprietary code...?? | Mar 29 22:24 |
| Balrog_ | I didn't think it had such code.... | Mar 29 22:24 |
| schestowitz | http://dvice.com/archives/2... "blade computers running the Unix-based Linux operating system." | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | UNIX-based Linux... | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | "blade computers.." | Mar 29 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | that's backwards | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | No capitalisation | Mar 29 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | well no | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | I thought Blades were servers.. | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Mar 29 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | it's ok | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Rookie writers... | Mar 29 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | no, we have Blade workstations | Mar 29 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | Sun Blade 150 | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Yes... | Mar 29 22:26 |
| Balrog_ | they look like desktops :) | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | But what caught my eye was the former :-) | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Unix-based Linux operating system | Mar 29 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Linux is not an operating system | Mar 29 22:27 |
| schestowitz | It's a platform | Mar 29 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | no, GNU/Linux is the OS | Mar 29 22:27 |
| schestowitz | And it's not "Linux-based" | Mar 29 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | Linux is a kernel | Mar 29 22:27 |
| schestowitz | UNIX-based I ments | Mar 29 22:27 |
| schestowitz | It's UNIX-alike | Mar 29 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | ahh yeah | Mar 29 22:27 |
| Balrog_ | it's based on the POSIX standard.... | Mar 29 22:27 |
| schestowitz | The article looks like a pro magazine | Mar 29 22:27 |
| schestowitz | But the content.. I dunno.. | Mar 29 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Just found it a sec ago. | Mar 29 22:27 |
| oiaohm | Unix is a standard. | Mar 29 22:28 |
| oiaohm | Nothing is Unix based. | Mar 29 22:28 |
| oiaohm | Linux has been a certified Unix a few times in the past. | Mar 29 22:28 |
| Balrog_ | really? which ones? | Mar 29 22:28 |
| oiaohm | The distributions are dead. | Mar 29 22:29 |
| Balrog_ | :/ | Mar 29 22:29 |
| oiaohm | Do you know what the costs are to maintain Unix certification. | Mar 29 22:29 |
| schestowitz | The shills at ZDNET have just published "Linux... Is it ready for the "average" user? " | Mar 29 22:30 |
| Balrog_ | yeah I know :( | Mar 29 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Another one of those 'articles' that use question marks to say "No" | Mar 29 22:30 |
| schestowitz | More FUD | Mar 29 22:30 |
| schestowitz | "Read for the desktop" is FUFD | Mar 29 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Creating uncertainty | Mar 29 22:30 |
| oiaohm | Solaris that most people think as a Unix currently is not certified either. | Mar 29 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Lousy ZDNET | Mar 29 22:30 |
| schestowitz | I hope it drops dead and dies as a publication altogether soon | Mar 29 22:30 |
| oiaohm | Every kernel change is a massive audit. | Mar 29 22:30 |
| Balrog_ | just /why/? | Mar 29 22:31 |
| schestowitz | It turned from journalist to blogs when Ziffy went bankrupt | Mar 29 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | linux is ready for most users; it still needs a bit more polish though | Mar 29 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat lifted by increased free use of Linux < http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b9e80a18-1... > | Mar 29 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Sure seems ready fore many | Mar 29 22:31 |
| Balrog_ | the command line is problematic for many | Mar 29 22:31 |
| schestowitz | But when people come with misconception that it's "not ready", then they get latched onto it | Mar 29 22:32 |
| oiaohm | For person like me its not ready. | Mar 29 22:32 |
| schestowitz | When peopel think Mac is easy, they don't give up | Mar 29 22:32 |
| Balrog_ | and the GNOME vs. KDE vs. XFCE isn't good | Mar 29 22:32 |
| schestowitz | As that would make them "Stupid" | Mar 29 22:32 |
| oiaohm | But the tech for it to be ready should be in place by end of year. | Mar 29 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: do you need the CLI? Which distro? | Mar 29 22:32 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: choice -- not good? | Mar 29 22:32 |
| Balrog_ | no, I'm complaining that end users get intimidated by CLI | Mar 29 22:32 |
| oiaohm | Mostly a fixed up graphic stack so kernel panic caused by Nvidia does not leave users hanging. | Mar 29 22:32 |
| Balrog_ | choice leads to confusion | Mar 29 22:33 |
| Balrog_ | unfortunately | Mar 29 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Maybe we can kill 2/3 of the s/w to make it easy for you. ;-) | Mar 29 22:33 |
| oiaohm | So user can blame Nvidia for the problems they cause. | Mar 29 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Ease of use through destruction | Mar 29 22:33 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: you mean like Windows not booting | Mar 29 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Or bad Apple patches that leave users stranded in CLI? | Mar 29 22:33 |
| schestowitz | That happens. | Mar 29 22:33 |
| schestowitz | They just phone up the companies | Mar 29 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Not post in Web forums | Mar 29 22:34 |
| oiaohm | Windows not booting has many causes. | Mar 29 22:34 |
| Balrog_ | that happened a couple of times :/ | Mar 29 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 29 22:34 |
| oiaohm | NTFS fucking up is not talked about. | Mar 29 22:34 |
| Balrog_ | at least archive+install makes for easy recovery on a mac | Mar 29 22:34 |
| schestowitz | A couple of times I can recall | Mar 29 22:34 |
| schestowitz | I remember 2 times. | Mar 29 22:34 |
| Balrog_ | you had it happen? | Mar 29 22:34 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: it's just 'computers'. They 'break' | Mar 29 22:34 |
| Balrog_ | (to your systems) | Mar 29 22:34 |
| schestowitz | Maybe NTFS, maybe virus.. | Mar 29 22:34 |
| oiaohm | NTFS drivers need to be taken out shot and rebuild. | Mar 29 22:34 |
| schestowitz | The rule is that you need to reinstall every 6 months... | Mar 29 22:34 |
| Balrog_ | that's windows right? | Mar 29 22:35 |
| oiaohm | Exacty | Mar 29 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: no, not mine. Did you ask oiaohm ? | Mar 29 22:35 |
| Balrog_ | I thought you were talking about mac dumping people to cli | Mar 29 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 29 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Not mine | Mar 29 22:35 |
| Balrog_ | I've never seen /that/ but I've seen other things: | Mar 29 22:35 |
| schestowitz | I hardly used Macs | Mar 29 22:35 |
| oiaohm | people talk about Linux problems people are 100 percent use to windows problems. | Mar 29 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Mac OS 9 | Mar 29 22:35 |
| oiaohm | So much so they don't even bother investaging. | Mar 29 22:35 |
| schestowitz | I used OS X a few times (other people's computers) | Mar 29 22:36 |
| Balrog_ | (a) APE messing stuff up, but APE is considered dangerous to begin with | Mar 29 22:36 |
| schestowitz | +1 | Mar 29 22:36 |
| Balrog_ | (b) the GPU drivers for the internal video in the original G3 systems were bad, and it would cause video to go out randomly. Solution: get a newer video card | Mar 29 22:36 |
| Balrog_ | and yes, there is archive and install, something neither linux nor windows do well yet | Mar 29 22:37 |
| Balrog_ | (should be easy for linux....diff installed apps vs. preinstalled apps, keep home dir, after install, put back the not-installed apps) | Mar 29 22:37 |
| Balrog_ | giving the user a list if necessary | Mar 29 22:38 |
| Balrog_ | I haven't seen a distro that has such a feature :( | Mar 29 22:38 |
| oiaohm | There are back system that work well. | Mar 29 22:38 |
| oiaohm | On Linux | Mar 29 22:38 |
| oiaohm | abusing the package manager. | Mar 29 22:38 |
| Balrog_ | you mean backup? | Mar 29 22:38 |
| oiaohm | Only to backup files not in package manager. | Mar 29 22:38 |
| Balrog_ | no, I'm talking about a reinstalling the system without losing apps/data | Mar 29 22:39 |
| Balrog_ | about reinstalling * | Mar 29 22:39 |
| Balrog_ | you know, like reinstalling windows ;) | Mar 29 22:39 |
| oiaohm | So am I | Mar 29 22:39 |
| oiaohm | Backup script then reinstall. | Mar 29 22:39 |
| Balrog_ | well, you don't want to put back the bad data... | Mar 29 22:39 |
| Balrog_ | that's one benefit of self contained apps, and the structure that OS X provides | Mar 29 22:40 |
| oiaohm | To a point. | Mar 29 22:40 |
| oiaohm | Linux filesystem stardards if applications follow them finding whos file is who is simple. | Mar 29 22:40 |
| Balrog_ | /System/Library for system stuff, /Library for system-wide user-modifiable stuff, ~/Library for user-specific stuff | Mar 29 22:40 |
| Balrog_ | /Applications for programs | Mar 29 22:41 |
| oiaohm | Do you understand why Unix/Linux is layed out the way it is. | Mar 29 22:41 |
| Balrog_ | yes, I sure do | Mar 29 22:41 |
| oiaohm | Seek time. | Mar 29 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | it certainly makes sense to have a /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, etc | Mar 29 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | Solaris does it right by putting apps in /opt | Mar 29 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | (non-system apps) | Mar 29 22:42 |
| oiaohm | So does linux for non distribution applciations. | Mar 29 22:42 |
| oiaohm | If they follow spec. | Mar 29 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, if they follow spec. | Mar 29 22:42 |
| Balrog_ | too many don't. | Mar 29 22:42 |
| oiaohm | Linux problem is non spec following. | Mar 29 22:43 |
| oiaohm | Same thing can happen on apple. | Mar 29 22:43 |
| oiaohm | There are about 10 application on apple I know that don't follow spec. | Mar 29 22:43 |
| Balrog_ | and it does happen. Such apps tend to suck though | Mar 29 22:43 |
| Balrog_ | like Stuffit which uses an installer that's not necessary (and people hate it) | Mar 29 22:43 |
| Balrog_ | Adobe apps put various stuff in /Library | Mar 29 22:44 |
| Balrog_ | true, they come with uninstallers, but that's still not good behavior IMO | Mar 29 22:44 |
| schestowitz | Firefox reached 863 million downloads on 2009-03-29 22:49 UTC | Mar 29 22:44 |
| Balrog_ | if they do put stuff in /Library, it should stay in /Library/Application Support/Adobe and nowhere else | Mar 29 22:44 |
| oiaohm | Something anti-virus guys are working on well help a lot. | Mar 29 22:44 |
| Balrog_ | explain how that's related....? | Mar 29 22:45 |
| oiaohm | Fixing up the linux filesystem monitoring system. | Mar 29 22:45 |
| Balrog_ | ahh that | Mar 29 22:45 |
| oiaohm | fanotify | Mar 29 22:45 |
| Balrog_ | os x has a kernel level filesystem monitoring api | Mar 29 22:45 |
| oiaohm | So does Linux 2 of them. | Mar 29 22:45 |
| oiaohm | And they both sux. | Mar 29 22:45 |
| Balrog_ | yeah :/ | Mar 29 22:45 |
| oiaohm | inotify and dnotify | Mar 29 22:46 |
| oiaohm | Both only do half the job if that you need and don't work well with eachother. | Mar 29 22:46 |
| schestowitz | AMD Releases R700 Instruction Set Architecture < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.ph... > | Mar 29 22:46 |
| oiaohm | This is why I get annoyed with people like Linux Hater | Mar 29 22:47 |
| oiaohm | There are plenty of valid points to pick on Linux for. | Mar 29 22:47 |
| oiaohm | Just they take true knowledge of it to find. | Mar 29 22:47 |
| Balrog_ | ys. | Mar 29 22:49 |
| Balrog_ | yes * | Mar 29 22:49 |
| Balrog_ | http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Da... for the one in os x | Mar 29 22:49 |
| schestowitz | If anyone knows what's up with ZDNet, please holler... http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/29/z... | Mar 29 22:51 |
| Balrog_ | what about Georage Ou and Mary Jo Foley? They're still at ZDNet? | Mar 29 22:52 |
| Balrog_ | George * | Mar 29 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Mary has her own blog | Mar 29 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Looks almost like a placeholder | Mar 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | I think the same goes for the Ou shill | Mar 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | One of the Microsoft gang in ZD... others being Bott, that Microsoft employee Carol (former), and other obvious ones | Mar 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | They get paid to provoke | Mar 29 22:56 |
| Balrog_ | certainly | Mar 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | Paid by # of comments and such. | Mar 29 22:56 |
| Balrog_ | heh | Mar 29 22:56 |
| schestowitz | So stuff like "Linux thrown to the curb" or whatever gets posted | Mar 29 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | I wonder why so many of the comments are pro-windows biased.... | Mar 29 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | yeah. | Mar 29 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Blankenhorm almost begged people to participate | Mar 29 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Their job depends on it | Mar 29 22:57 |
| schestowitz | But that's not reporting | Mar 29 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: why? | Mar 29 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Because they select people like that | Mar 29 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | does http://www.roughlydrafted.com/ work? | Mar 29 22:57 |
| Balrog_ | I get a database error | Mar 29 22:57 |
| schestowitz | They won't select strongly pro-Linux people to have blogs | Mar 29 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Roughly Eran posted many good things recently | Mar 29 22:58 |
| schestowitz | maybe overloaded | Mar 29 22:58 |
| Balrog_ | yeah. | Mar 29 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Times out for me, I think | Mar 29 22:58 |
| Balrog_ | he is right in many ways .... though I can see Apple at 25-33% of the market and Linux taking the rest, if MS were to fail totally | Mar 29 22:58 |
| schestowitz | He sometimes writes about Linux | Mar 29 22:58 |
| Balrog_ | then Apple would have to work together :) | Mar 29 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Usually spot-on | Mar 29 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Took the piss on Mono too | Mar 29 22:59 |
| Balrog_ | that's about what he says, if you read a little "between the lines" | Mar 29 22:59 |
| schestowitz | BN has more visitors than RD Magazine | Mar 29 22:59 |
| schestowitz | But he didn't post much in 2009 | Mar 29 22:59 |
| Balrog_ | that's because BN has more recent posts | Mar 29 22:59 |
| Balrog_ | more frequent * | Mar 29 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 29 23:00 |
| schestowitz | But archives get the most traffic | Mar 29 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Maybe 80% | Mar 29 23:00 |
| Balrog_ | archives are very interesting | Mar 29 23:00 |
| schestowitz | "Failed to Connect" | Mar 29 23:00 |
| Balrog_ | once you start reading you don't want to stop :) | Mar 29 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Wankered by traffic I reckon. | Mar 29 23:00 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, I wonder what's up | Mar 29 23:00 |
| Balrog_ | probably the PHP database is down | Mar 29 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Our return rate is high | Mar 29 23:00 |
| schestowitz | About 5 pages per visitor | Mar 29 23:00 |
| schestowitz | On average | Mar 29 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Visit, not visitor | Mar 29 23:00 |
| Balrog_ | his is probably too, but less frequent posts | Mar 29 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Some sites are at about 1 per visitor | Mar 29 23:01 |
| Balrog_ | so if I have an RSS feed, I won't go back unless there's new content | Mar 29 23:01 |
| schestowitz | I like to think that my stuff won't be read for one day and be shelved | Mar 29 23:01 |
| schestowitz | So I inter-link the stories and never ever repeat stories if I can avoid it | Mar 29 23:01 |
| Balrog_ | heh, doesn't work that way :) | Mar 29 23:02 |
| Balrog_ | but inter linking is very good | Mar 29 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes it does | Mar 29 23:02 |
| Balrog_ | just use outside sources! | Mar 29 23:02 |
| schestowitz | You give the short story and a link | Mar 29 23:02 |
| schestowitz | The outside stories can be found | Mar 29 23:02 |
| Balrog_ | yeah. | Mar 29 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Just need to crawl past archives | Mar 29 23:02 |
| schestowitz | It's convenient | Mar 29 23:02 |
| schestowitz | [cref POST-ID] | Mar 29 23:02 |
| schestowitz | External would take time to fetch | Mar 29 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Also to test | Mar 29 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, but external gives extra credibility | Mar 29 23:03 |
| schestowitz | I write quickly, so the though of researching whilst writing is dreadful | Mar 29 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: yes, I know. | Mar 29 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Plurality in links | Mar 29 23:03 |
| schestowitz | I concede it | Mar 29 23:03 |
| Balrog_ | very important when you have 1000's of detractors ready to attack. | Mar 29 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Also.. | Mar 29 23:03 |
| schestowitz | If I have links to BackWeb-MS lawsuit | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Then I can have one post with 20 ext-links | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Then, I can link to this post | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Which is like an anchor | Mar 29 23:04 |
| Balrog_ | yeah. | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | It also opens up with an intro-summary | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Rather than choose an arbitrary article | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Like TomTom | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | I wrote a lonk summary | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | With about 40 external links | Mar 29 23:04 |
| Balrog_ | I like a wikipedia-style system with endnotes too | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Now I just link to it as main anchor to TomTom suit | Mar 29 23:04 |
| Balrog_ | (ref style) | Mar 29 23:04 |
| schestowitz | There's one for OIN joining too | Mar 29 23:05 |
| Balrog_ | more work :/ ... but helps | Mar 29 23:05 |
| schestowitz | I gobble em up | Mar 29 23:05 |
| Balrog_ | yeah. | Mar 29 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Wikipedia is polished | Mar 29 23:05 |
| schestowitz | More time, more people | Mar 29 23:05 |
| Balrog_ | certainly | Mar 29 23:05 |
| Balrog_ | also, is there any repository of Comes vs MS data that will be up for a while that's not on your site? | Mar 29 23:06 |
| Balrog_ | (because your site tends to be politically charged, and pointing pro-MS people at it isn't always a good first impression) | Mar 29 23:07 |
| Balrog_ | well, politically meaning anti-MS | Mar 29 23:07 |
| schestowitz | There are other mirrors | Mar 29 23:07 |
| schestowitz | People can judge the evidence | Mar 29 23:08 |
| schestowitz | PDFs. | Mar 29 23:08 |
| Balrog_ | yes, I know.... | Mar 29 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Nothing 'charged' there.. nor faked | Mar 29 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Same with the posts. "Charged" = honest/POV | Mar 29 23:08 |
| Balrog_ | I understand. Not everyone feels that way | Mar 29 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Confrmist=non-charged | Mar 29 23:08 |
| Balrog_ | Like I had someone who pushed ASP.NET strongly | Mar 29 23:08 |
| schestowitz | There's an interesting hypothesis on papers and politics | Mar 29 23:08 |
| Balrog_ | (and MS products) | Mar 29 23:08 |
| schestowitz | The big papers set the trneds | Mar 29 23:08 |
| schestowitz | You can't deviate from them | Mar 29 23:09 |
| Balrog_ | and didn't want to hear of Conficker or problems | Mar 29 23:09 |
| Balrog_ | with ASP.NET and MS products | Mar 29 23:09 |
| schestowitz | meaning that if NYT says there are WoMD, then local papers must agree | Mar 29 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Not agreeing or refuting would get the writers in trouble. | Mar 29 23:09 |
| schestowitz | It's a consent system | Mar 29 23:09 |
| Balrog_ | heh | Mar 29 23:09 |
| Balrog_ | yeah | Mar 29 23:09 |
| schestowitz | That is what make the PR(opaganda) powerhouse so powerful and effective | Mar 29 23:10 |
| schestowitz | People are taught to admire certain publications that never admit a mistake | Mar 29 23:10 |
| Balrog_ | unfortunately, everyone does PR | Mar 29 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Maybe pubs out there deserve apology/correction for Massive Mistakes | Mar 29 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Same in Vietnam war, AFAIK | Mar 29 23:10 |
| Balrog_ | (every middle to large sized company) | Mar 29 23:10 |
| Balrog_ | if you don't do it, you're left out in the cold | Mar 29 23:11 |
| schestowitz | I recently learned that Orwell accused the BBC of spreading propaganda (he worked there) | Mar 29 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: same with lobbying | Mar 29 23:11 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't make it right | Mar 29 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Same with accounting fraud | Mar 29 23:11 |
| Balrog_ | sure doesn't. | Mar 29 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft judtifies its crimes by saying others do it too | Mar 29 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: Due does | Mar 29 23:11 |
| Balrog_ | PR isn't as bad as lobbying or account fraud though; there /can/ be good PR | Mar 29 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Sure does | Mar 29 23:11 |
| schestowitz | IRS also | Mar 29 23:11 |
| Balrog_ | thourh it's rare | Mar 29 23:11 |
| Balrog_ | though * | Mar 29 23:11 |
| schestowitz | PR is about deception | Mar 29 23:12 |
| schestowitz | There can be gentle PR | Mar 29 23:12 |
| schestowitz | It's still just a new name for propaganda (Bernays) | Mar 29 23:12 |
| Balrog_ | PR can be about correcting wrongs that some idiot caused | Mar 29 23:12 |
| schestowitz | It is about deceiving the masses | Mar 29 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Laerning women to smoke and sych | Mar 29 23:12 |
| schestowitz | *Such | Mar 29 23:12 |
| schestowitz | nothing ethical about it | Mar 29 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Unless profit and shopping culture is seen as benign | Mar 29 23:12 |
| Balrog_ | or causing the masses to realize that the leadership is not bad anymore | Mar 29 23:12 |
| Balrog_ | rare though | Mar 29 23:13 |
| schestowitz | Assming the world is an infinite garbage dumop | Mar 29 23:13 |
| schestowitz | Which "idiots"? | Mar 29 23:13 |
| schestowitz | Dissent? | Mar 29 23:13 |
| schestowitz | Dissent is democratising force. | Mar 29 23:13 |
| schestowitz | PR is buying influence | Mar 29 23:13 |
| schestowitz | Rule of the gold... 'golden' rule | Mar 29 23:13 |
| Balrog_ | but I've seen a case where an idiot messed stuff up with a certain [small] organization and a form of small-scale PR was necessary | Mar 29 23:13 |
| Balrog_ | (idiot == someone who doesn't care for anyone other than himself, here) | Mar 29 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Concrete example? | Mar 29 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Name? | Mar 29 23:14 |
| Balrog_ | this is on a very small scale | Mar 29 23:14 |
| Balrog_ | <<personally involved | Mar 29 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Novell can justify its own PR too | Mar 29 23:14 |
| schestowitz | It hired a firm in YoRkshirre to game the Web | Mar 29 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Nothing ethical | Mar 29 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Greyhats at best | Mar 29 23:14 |
| Balrog_ | Novell is trying to fool people into thinking their tech is good | Mar 29 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Justified? I think not | Mar 29 23:14 |
| Balrog_ | certainly not | Mar 29 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Novell's tech is rubbish | Mar 29 23:15 |
| schestowitz | second-class at everything | Mar 29 23:15 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft turns to politics again: http://undertheinfluence.nationaljou... http://www.politico.com/news/storie... | Mar 29 23:15 |
| Balrog_ | when is it? when a company really changes their ways, you need to help people realize that's the case | Mar 29 23:15 |
| oiaohm | I don't think MS is going to be happy. | Mar 29 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Video card markers are slowly taking over media content. | Mar 29 23:15 |
| Balrog_ | makers * | Mar 29 23:15 |
| oiaohm | So ending codec's as a way to control market. | Mar 29 23:16 |
| schestowitz | DRM on board? | Mar 29 23:16 |
| oiaohm | video stream decoding on board. | Mar 29 23:16 |
| Balrog_ | yes, I know :/ | Mar 29 23:16 |
| schestowitz | "Content" is a terrible word for arts | Mar 29 23:16 |
| oiaohm | Yep MS wants there codecs to run well. | Mar 29 23:16 |
| Balrog_ | there was recently talk about vpdau on #mplayer | Mar 29 23:17 |
| oiaohm | Wants drm to work. | Mar 29 23:17 |
| oiaohm | It will have to go into video card. So video card markers have to be licence to use codec. | Mar 29 23:17 |
| Balrog_ | vpdau is probably open-source though. | Mar 29 23:17 |
| oiaohm | Really stuffs MS ideas up badly. | Mar 29 23:17 |
| Balrog_ | oiaohm: you can't use a system like CUDA | Mar 29 23:17 |
| Balrog_ | where a software decoder runs on the GPU? | Mar 29 23:17 |
| Balrog_ | (or OpenCL) | Mar 29 23:18 |
| oiaohm | CUDA does not have audio syncing. | Mar 29 23:18 |
| Balrog_ | CUDA is just computations on GPU | Mar 29 23:18 |
| Balrog_ | you write the decoder | Mar 29 23:18 |
| Balrog_ | the GPU runs it | Mar 29 23:18 |
| oiaohm | Video card markers will be wanting to provide the decoders as part of there drivers. | Mar 29 23:18 |
| Balrog_ | probably ...... | Mar 29 23:19 |
| oiaohm | So its optmised correctly for there cards. | Mar 29 23:19 |
| Balrog_ | though I can see ffmpeg / mplayer / gstreamer support such acceleration | Mar 29 23:19 |
| oiaohm | Yep MS ends up again having to licence to device makers not end users. | Mar 29 23:19 |
| oiaohm | Problem with device makers they are buying millions of licences at once. | Mar 29 23:19 |
| oiaohm | And expect them darn cheep. | Mar 29 23:19 |
| Balrog_ | MS license to device makers? | Mar 29 23:20 |
| Balrog_ | you mean WMA/WMV codecs? | Mar 29 23:20 |
| Balrog_ | but isn't MPEG/h.264 more popular nowadays? | Mar 29 23:20 |
| oiaohm | VC-1 | Mar 29 23:20 |
| Balrog_ | why not MPEG4/H.264? | Mar 29 23:20 |
| oiaohm | The one MS got used on blueray. | Mar 29 23:20 |
| Balrog_ | I know it still has patents, but it tends to be better | Mar 29 23:21 |
| Balrog_ | I heard that blueray uses h.264 by default | Mar 29 23:21 |
| Balrog_ | (mpeg4 **) | Mar 29 23:21 |
| oiaohm | There are two formats can can be used on blueray. | Mar 29 23:21 |
| Balrog_ | AVC * | Mar 29 23:21 |
| oiaohm | h264 and VC-1 | Mar 29 23:21 |
| Balrog_ | or MPGE-2 | Mar 29 23:21 |
| Balrog_ | MPEG * | Mar 29 23:21 |
| oiaohm | Also h264 is also being included in video card drivers. | Mar 29 23:23 |
| oiaohm | How to solve the patent problem. | Mar 29 23:23 |
| oiaohm | for end users. | Mar 29 23:23 |
| oiaohm | Have hardware makers deal with them. | Mar 29 23:23 |
| Balrog_ | h264 is a good codec, but for the patents | Mar 29 23:24 |
| oiaohm | Also screws patent holders quite well. Since hardware markers can take the hard line of either provide the patents cheep or we support something else. | Mar 29 23:24 |
| oiaohm | When you are talking about millions of end users you are not really in a good location to disagree. | Mar 29 23:25 |
| schestowitz | Sad news for Ubuntu on SunBlade 100's with Condor Users < http://switchingtolinux.blogspot.com/2009/03/sa... > | Mar 29 23:25 |
| Balrog_ | according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Com... , h.264 is superior | Mar 29 23:25 |
| Balrog_ | also there are free implementations (maybe not patent free, but free) | Mar 29 23:25 |
| oiaohm | There are free implementations of VC-1. | Mar 29 23:26 |
| Balrog_ | re-compile condor? | Mar 29 23:26 |
| oiaohm | Both locked by patents. | Mar 29 23:26 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, but are they as good as the reference implementation? | Mar 29 23:26 |
| oiaohm | Yes. | Mar 29 23:27 |
| Balrog_ | hmm ok. | Mar 29 23:27 |
| Balrog_ | still, more people use h.264 | Mar 29 23:27 |
| oiaohm | Because one of the open source ones is the reference implementation. | Mar 29 23:27 |
| oiaohm | That MS had to give up to get on blueray. | Mar 29 23:27 |
| Balrog_ | ahh...which one? | Mar 29 23:27 |
| Balrog_ | explain 'give up'? | Mar 29 23:27 |
| oiaohm | Yes under a nasty licence must pay patents | Mar 29 23:28 |
| Balrog_ | :( | Mar 29 23:28 |
| Balrog_ | well the 'fee' is $1 per encoder / decoder sold, but that doesn't say anything for foss | Mar 29 23:28 |
| Balrog_ | (I may be a bit off with that number) | Mar 29 23:28 |
| oiaohm | That is right. | Mar 29 23:29 |
| oiaohm | $1 per device to cover patents. | Mar 29 23:29 |
| oiaohm | Yes device markers can really negotate hard. | Mar 29 23:30 |
| Balrog_ | yeah. But how can that work with foss? | Mar 29 23:30 |
| Balrog_ | foss is given away, so you can't charge royalties.... | Mar 29 23:30 |
| oiaohm | Its like freetype and ffmpeg. | Mar 29 23:30 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, grey area | Mar 29 23:30 |
| Balrog_ | I still use it :) ... the x264 encoder is so much better than most 'official' ones | Mar 29 23:31 |
| oiaohm | Remember its not a encoder or decoder until its built into a binary. | Mar 29 23:31 |
| Balrog_ | ah heh | Mar 29 23:31 |
| Balrog_ | well I build from source | Mar 29 23:31 |
| Balrog_ | macports here, gentoo at school | Mar 29 23:31 |
| oiaohm | Once coverted into an application then you are up for patent money. | Mar 29 23:31 |
| Balrog_ | so what? You have to include a compiler with your app? :O | Mar 29 23:32 |
| oiaohm | If you are in the wrong countries. | Mar 29 23:32 |
| oiaohm | Sooner the patent system dies on software the better. | Mar 29 23:32 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully redhats plan works. | Mar 29 23:32 |
| Balrog_ | yeah | Mar 29 23:32 |
| oiaohm | Put a wall of patents around open source. | Mar 29 23:32 |
| Balrog_ | and hopefully MS vs. Tom-Tom helps (MS must lose) | Mar 29 23:33 |
| oiaohm | So locking closed source guys out the open source market. | Mar 29 23:33 |
| oiaohm | So getting them screaming there heads of to kill the patent system. | Mar 29 23:33 |
| Balrog_ | did you know that HDTV in the US is patented? | Mar 29 23:33 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.mpegla.com/atsc/ | Mar 29 23:33 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Mar 29 23:33 |
| Balrog_ | old-fashioned TV was analog | Mar 29 23:33 |
| Balrog_ | idk how you could patent that ;) | Mar 29 23:33 |
| Balrog_ | probably some component of the circuit, but there would be a way to work around it | Mar 29 23:34 |
| oiaohm | Analog TV was patented. | Mar 29 23:35 |
| oiaohm | Quite completely. | Mar 29 23:35 |
| Balrog_ | hmm ... interesting | Mar 29 23:35 |
| oiaohm | Over 3000 patents in a tv set. | Mar 29 23:35 |
| Balrog_ | wow | Mar 29 23:35 |
| Balrog_ | did you read about the whole mess with Farnsworth and Sarnoff? | Mar 29 23:35 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Mar 29 23:35 |
| Balrog_ | (Farnsworth getting ripped off by RCA) | Mar 29 23:35 |
| Balrog_ | take a look | Mar 29 23:36 |
| Balrog_ | http://en.wikipedia.or... | Mar 29 23:36 |
| Balrog_ | even though he won the patent case and got royalties, he never got rich | Mar 29 23:37 |
| Balrog_ | (thanks to the power of large corporations like RCA) | Mar 29 23:37 |
| oiaohm | That is what is going to happen to most patent holders. | Mar 29 23:38 |
| oiaohm | You cannot get a good deal when dealing with really large enitys. | Mar 29 23:38 |
| Balrog_ | yeah, unfortunately :( | Mar 29 23:39 |
| Balrog_ | read about Harold Pitcairn as well | Mar 29 23:39 |
| oiaohm | MS problem with Linux. | Mar 29 23:39 |
| Balrog_ | he was the main inventor behind helicopter technology | Mar 29 23:39 |
| oiaohm | Linux is targeting the large groups. | Mar 29 23:39 |
| Balrog_ | got patents, but got ripped off, and the government supported those who ripped him off | Mar 29 23:39 |
| oiaohm | So force MS into the market where the profit is not. | Mar 29 23:39 |
| Balrog_ | yeah. | Mar 29 23:40 |
| oiaohm | MS cannot follow Linux into the motherboard. | Mar 29 23:40 |
| oiaohm | It goes in there its dead. | Mar 29 23:40 |
| oiaohm | I am supprised motherboard companies have not done this yet shipping with like Ubuntu disks. | Mar 29 23:40 |
| Balrog_ | well, not everyone builds computers | Mar 29 23:41 |
| oiaohm | So there users cannot be accuesed of being software pirates it was aquired with a OS. | Mar 29 23:41 |
| oiaohm | That move would be the max MS stuff up. | Mar 29 23:41 |
| Balrog_ | PC manufacturers should be forced to stop bundling windows. | Mar 29 23:42 |
| Balrog_ | Let a user buy a PC without OS and get a free Linux disc, or pay $70 or so for an OEM windows disc | Mar 29 23:42 |
| schestowitz | http://www.stefanoforenza... "Ubuntu’s community manager clamorously fails at explaining the values of having a community, or opening up to a community. The intent was (probably) good, the concept expressed terribly bad. I won’t read his book ;-) ." | Mar 29 23:43 |
| schestowitz | http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/03/... "I am leaving Red Hat. Onward. " | Mar 29 23:43 |
| Balrog_ | heh, mono is being unused so it offers to remove it :) | Mar 29 23:44 |
| Balrog_ | good idea | Mar 29 23:44 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.67.224) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 29 23:48 | |
| schestowitz | Solaris has a nice wallpaper: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.p... | Mar 29 23:49 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not as good as fedora's | Mar 29 23:50 |
| _Hicham_ | fedora has really great artwork | Mar 29 23:50 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.hydrasystemsllc.com/20... (A Short Review of OpenSolaris 2008.11) | Mar 29 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Question: should I mention Solaris and Symbian in BN? | Mar 29 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Because I try to avoid giving them visibility | Mar 29 23:53 |
| schestowitz | They compete with the GPL | Mar 29 23:53 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I have some new Fedora vids to show you | Mar 29 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Actually, Michael made em | Mar 29 23:53 |
| Balrog_ | Solaris, yeah, because of Java at least | Mar 29 23:53 |
| schestowitz | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?... | Mar 29 23:53 |
| Balrog_ | Symbian, not yet | Mar 29 23:53 |
| schestowitz | He has a large flat planel | Mar 29 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Bigger than mine | Mar 29 23:54 |
| schestowitz | *panel | Mar 29 23:54 |
| schestowitz | But if I show OpenSolaris people might try it--- not good for GPL and GNU/Linux | Mar 29 23:54 |
| Balrog_ | what about Nexenta? | Mar 29 23:55 |
| schestowitz | Symbian has Nokia's shadow on it... with softare patents, DRM, and utter junk... | Mar 29 23:55 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: what about it? | Mar 29 23:55 |
| Balrog_ | it's GNU/Solaris | Mar 29 23:55 |
| schestowitz | yes | Mar 29 23:55 |
| Balrog_ | technically | Mar 29 23:55 |
| schestowitz | CDDL | Mar 29 23:55 |
| Balrog_ | well the userland is gpl | Mar 29 23:55 |
| oiaohm | Everyone is forgetting about the effects of displacement. | Mar 29 23:57 |
| oiaohm | Nokia and others are starting to use the same OS types as the netbooks. | Mar 29 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 29 23:57 |
| _Hicham_ | really oiaohm? | Mar 29 23:57 |
| oiaohm | There market is not what you call going perfect. | Mar 29 23:57 |
| schestowitz | But Nokia is not a party that can be trusted | Mar 29 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Better to push GNU/Linux for now | Mar 29 23:57 |
| schestowitz | At least it's GPL | Mar 29 23:57 |
| schestowitz | GPLv3 would be nice... hurd | Mar 29 23:57 |
| oiaohm | So there is a risk that Nokia could be displaced into making netbooks. | Mar 29 23:58 |
| oiaohm | Not what MS would want. | Mar 29 23:58 |
| oiaohm | Then end of phone/desktop OS divide could be on us. | Mar 29 23:58 |
| schestowitz | There's Maemo | Mar 29 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Though the community took cntrol | Mar 29 23:59 |
| oiaohm | Nokia low end phones are not selling. High end smart phones are still selling but numbers don't make up for it. | Mar 29 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Nokia in a tizzy.. | Mar 29 23:59 |