| *dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 06 00:52 |
| *fumanchu2175 (n=Dflax@c-68-50-6-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 06 03:16 |
| *fumanchu2175 (n=Dflax@c-68-50-6-60.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell | Jun 06 03:19 |
| *ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 06 03:42 |
| dsmith_ | anyone alive in here? | Jun 06 04:28 |
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| schestowitz | I'm here. | Jun 06 04:31 |
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| schestowitz | Was away for a long while though. | Jun 06 04:31 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: good afternoon | Jun 06 04:35 |
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| schestowitz | dsmith: have you found out more about Lenovo? | Jun 06 04:35 |
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| schestowitz | Well, it's 4AM here. ;-) | Jun 06 04:36 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: wow. | Jun 06 04:36 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/ac... "Correction: This story has been changed since it was first posted to say that Remix will be available for free download, although it is most appropriate for developers and prospective netbook vendors. Due to incorrect information provided to Computerworld, the story originally said Remix would not be available for a free download." | Jun 06 04:40 |
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| ZiggyFish | when do ComputerWorld give the correct information :P | Jun 06 04:41 |
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| ZiggyFish | *does | Jun 06 04:41 |
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| schestowitz | Eric Lai can be annoying sometimes. | Jun 06 04:42 |
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| schestowitz | Ziggy the thing about the above quote is not the mistake. It's about Ubuntu sort of closing (this mobile derivative). | Jun 06 04:52 |
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| schestowitz | And just spotted from Mark S's own mouth: "So while I respect the people in the free software community who invest a lot of time in making compatible implementations of other people's technology, I don't think that's the real recipe for success for free software. We have to give people a reason to use our platform for itself, not because it's a cheap version of someone else's." | Jun 06 04:52 |
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| dsmith_ | roy: my contact is away on vacation, next week I will ask him | Jun 06 04:55 |
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| schestowitz | ty | Jun 06 04:59 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: i agree with mark though and is a good step in the right direction | Jun 06 05:01 |
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| schestowitz | Context here: http://lwn.net/Subscribe... (re: the quote above, I was thinking also about Mono and the reason MarkS said there should be no Wine on Dell's Linux boxes) | Jun 06 05:03 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: I read that above story, yesterday, and thought it was strange, the Remix, wasn't going to be release for free download. | Jun 06 05:04 |
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| ZiggyFish | I agree with the statement before that too. | Jun 06 05:06 |
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| ZiggyFish | With regard to GNOME and Microsoft, I'm not concerned. My view is that to win, you have to have your own vision. You have to have a very clear idea of what you can deliver that's unique. You can't go around sort of chasing someone else's coat tails. | Jun 06 05:06 |
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| schestowitz | I must wonder if they put some proprietary/NDA'd Intel stuff inside. No source, no binary. Mind you, Remix runs just fine on PCs. It's not a matter of impossibility. | Jun 06 05:06 |
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| ZiggyFish | And in fact, the real successes of free software have been the places where it has just blown away the alternatives. The Internet runs on free software, and not because it has copied anything from Microsoft. The proprietary software guys like to accuse free software of not innovating and not doing anything other than sort of walking down the same path that they've already walked, which is always easier. That's just not true, | Jun 06 05:07 |
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| ZiggyFish | but guys like the Mono Project are reinforcing that stereotype. | Jun 06 05:07 |
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| schestowitz | Well, the previous stereotype was "communism" | Jun 06 05:08 |
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| ZiggyFish | mark had a interview with Jim back in feb <http://linux-foundation.org/webl... | Jun 06 05:09 |
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| ZiggyFish | he said some interesting stuff. | Jun 06 05:09 |
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| schestowitz | Given the visibility of FOSS, it makes more sense to assume that blob factories will follow the footsteps of FOSS. In practice, it is often true. | Jun 06 05:09 |
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| schestowitz | If only I could find that image that shows the "cycle of innovation" (it expired on the Web) | Jun 06 05:09 |
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| schestowitz | (I've only just realied that Google made Gadgets open source... well, Apache... Google doesn't like Free software). | Jun 06 05:11 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: that I don't agree with. | Jun 06 05:11 |
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| schestowitz | Reactionary development exists too, but it goes both ways. | Jun 06 05:12 |
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| ZiggyFish | Google is where it is today because of it's close-ness | Jun 06 05:16 |
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| ZiggyFish | but I don't expect google to open up it's infer-structure. Google participates in Free software in a different way. | Jun 06 05:17 |
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| *santhosh (i=ca36b033@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-df54415e36f40963) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 06 05:20 |
| schestowitz | Yes, they give back a lot. I still hope that Wikia schools them. | Jun 06 05:20 |
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| santhosh | hi schestowitz, | Jun 06 05:21 |
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| schestowitz | Hey there! | Jun 06 05:21 |
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| santhosh | I read http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06... . One related topic on Patent on India: http://osindia.blogspot.com/2008/05/gh... | Jun 06 05:22 |
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| santhosh | I dont know whether you already seen that... | Jun 06 05:22 |
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| schestowitz | I've posted it like 12 times in USENET so far (adding this for context). | Jun 06 05:22 |
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| schestowitz | Same in the EU with Senator of 'Harmonisation' | Jun 06 05:23 |
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| schestowitz | Here is a pro-Microsoft article from India (regarding OOXML): http://technology.merinews.com/catFu... | Jun 06 05:53 |
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| schestowitz | It's a new article with Microsoft's puppets quoted in it. Almost like a 'plug' in the media | Jun 06 05:54 |
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| dsmith_ | broadcom sucks... http://www.boingboing.net/2008/06/05/... | Jun 06 06:00 |
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| dsmith_ | I had to laugh see Microsoft having a /opensource page now.. | Jun 06 06:01 |
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| dsmith_ | that and they are supporters to sourceforge | Jun 06 06:01 |
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| schestowitz | It's becoming a big issue. They want to grab and control all sides. They want the Trust. | Jun 06 06:03 |
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| dsmith_ | I dont trust anyone | Jun 06 06:03 |
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| schestowitz | Well, trust as in anti-Trust. | Jun 06 06:03 |
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| schestowitz | If they can't fight someone or exterminate it (they tried many times), they want to just devour the threat. | Jun 06 06:04 |
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| dsmith_ | We have an issue at the office where were were just about to roll out citrix, in comes some IT guru and says that RDP and this-that is good enough | Jun 06 06:04 |
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| dsmith_ | so the CFO ends up spending $50K on needless things, now our CTO quit and left us high and dry | Jun 06 06:05 |
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| dsmith_ | I despise MS ppl, I really do | Jun 06 06:05 |
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| dsmith_ | I was asked why I hated MS, and no our CEO can see why. | Jun 06 06:05 |
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| schestowitz | OpenSSH not good enough? | Jun 06 06:05 |
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| schestowitz | Theo could use 50k. | Jun 06 06:05 |
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| dsmith_ | going back to citrix | Jun 06 06:05 |
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| dsmith_ | lol | Jun 06 06:05 |
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| dsmith_ | the thing is, our CFO and CEO have no idea on what they want. I am trying to work my way into the CIO position, give it time. | Jun 06 06:07 |
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| ZiggyFish | quite interesting | Jun 06 06:07 |
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| ZiggyFish | Edward Screven: I think in fact Microsoft’s saber rattling about Linux patents {audio dropout} you know, is good news. Because what it means is they are struggling to find ways to demonstrate the value of Windows with respect to Linux. So they’ve resorted to fear mongering. And that’s exactly how we view it. And that’s exactly why we fully indemnify Oracle Unbreakable Linux customers. You know, we’re a big company | Jun 06 06:07 |
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| ZiggyFish | and we’re going to stand up for our Linux supported customers. | Jun 06 06:07 |
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| dsmith_ | yea SSH nice, I use it here for connecting to remote machines that I want to remote update | Jun 06 06:07 |
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| dsmith_ | I have yet to try backing up using that method | Jun 06 06:08 |
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| schestowitz | Ziggy, URL? | Jun 06 06:08 |
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| schestowitz | rsync? | Jun 06 06:08 |
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| dsmith_ | yes rsync | Jun 06 06:08 |
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| schestowitz | I do it every night. | Jun 06 06:08 |
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| ZiggyFish | http://linux-foundation.org/... | Jun 06 06:09 |
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| schestowitz | Keeps all my files synchronised across 'sites' + tar+gzip for backups (stack of them) on external hard-drives. | Jun 06 06:09 |
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| dsmith_ | aye, I have a NAS here at home | Jun 06 06:09 |
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| ZiggyFish | ti's fairly old though, for the pod cast, http://linux-foundation.org/weblogs/openvo... | Jun 06 06:09 |
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| schestowitz | You know what, Ziggy? It won't be long before Zemlin interviews someone from Microsoft. | Jun 06 06:10 |
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| schestowitz | I bet you a buck. | Jun 06 06:10 |
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| ZiggyFish | May 6, 2008 | Jun 06 06:10 |
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| dsmith_ | I use to have two at the office until the MS idiots said this is crap, we need to spend money on a super duper windows server | Jun 06 06:10 |
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| dsmith_ | windows server - setup as a NAS | Jun 06 06:10 |
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| ZiggyFish | lol, why did you allow them in in the first place | Jun 06 06:10 |
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| dsmith_ | I didn't | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| schestowitz | "I think in fact Microsoft’s saber rattling about Linux patents {audio dropout} you know, is good news." = "It's good to have a heart attack because it teaches you to live more healthily" | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| ZiggyFish | could of lock the door | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| ZiggyFish | :P | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| dsmith_ | hahah | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| dsmith_ | believe me I tried within all my power to keep them out | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| dsmith_ | we had a nice samba server | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| dsmith_ | they got rid of that | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| schestowitz | Windows server... what does that do? Infect the office? | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: no, crash | Jun 06 06:11 |
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| dsmith_ | hahah, they rebbot it once a week | Jun 06 06:12 |
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| schestowitz | Even the Yankee Group took the p**s out of WS08 | Jun 06 06:12 |
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| dsmith_ | the suse and gentoo samaba servers I ran never were rebooted | Jun 06 06:12 |
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| schestowitz | It's getting worse for WS as time goes by.. downtime-wise | Jun 06 06:12 |
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| schestowitz | Tell them that Windows Server is the same codebase as Vista. | Jun 06 06:12 |
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| ZiggyFish | I heard there is a computer runnig unix for 20 years, and never has been rebooted :) | Jun 06 06:12 |
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| dsmith_ | well, compnay I work for have not exp. enough pain | Jun 06 06:12 |
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| schestowitz | Tell them they buy $3000 Vista | Jun 06 06:13 |
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| dsmith_ | same with using IE vs. firefox | Jun 06 06:13 |
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| dsmith_ | 3000 vista.......hahahha | Jun 06 06:13 |
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| dsmith_ | using Fx for 2 years never a problem | Jun 06 06:13 |
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| schestowitz | 06:13:26 up 52 days, 4:25, 6 users, load average: 0.33, 0.77, 1.28 | Jun 06 06:13 |
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| dsmith_ | 5 days after using IE, someone compalins about thier laptop is infected | Jun 06 06:13 |
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| dsmith_ | mind you they did also remove ESET NOD32 | Jun 06 06:13 |
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| dsmith_ | oh well.. | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| ZiggyFish | dsmith_: infected with Windows? | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| dsmith_ | NO I'm not | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| dsmith_ | :P | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| dsmith_ | <---kubuntu user | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| schestowitz | IE is not a Web browser. | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| schestowitz | It's an intsaller | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| dsmith_ | "Its the Industry standard"... | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| dsmith_ | ya right | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| ZiggyFish | dsmith_: can I ask what position are you in. can you make IT dissions? | Jun 06 06:14 |
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| dsmith_ | I use to long ago | Jun 06 06:15 |
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| dsmith_ | 6 months I say | Jun 06 06:15 |
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| dsmith_ | now I just consult here and there and fix things | Jun 06 06:15 |
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| dsmith_ | while retaining my day job with same company | Jun 06 06:15 |
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| ZiggyFish | because, you could do some research and give them a good insight into why they need linux | Jun 06 06:16 |
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| dsmith_ | our CFo did not like the fact I was going down the Linux road | Jun 06 06:16 |
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| ZiggyFish | dsmith_: did he say y | Jun 06 06:17 |
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| dsmith_ | I was so far as deploying kubuntu desktops | Jun 06 06:17 |
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| dsmith_ | Linux is not a standard.. blah blah blah | Jun 06 06:17 |
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| dsmith_ | I know whats best | Jun 06 06:17 |
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| dsmith_ | stuff like that | Jun 06 06:17 |
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| dsmith_ | Like I said, he should'nt be making IT decisions | Jun 06 06:17 |
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| schestowitz | Fear of the misunderstood typically. If 'foreign' software is in, they lose control. | Jun 06 06:18 |
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| dsmith_ | yea, I fought damned hard to retain admin rights on my machine | Jun 06 06:18 |
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| ZiggyFish | dsmith_: is that all. Linux is more of a standard (POSIX) | Jun 06 06:18 |
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| dsmith_ | not in this person eyes | Jun 06 06:18 |
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| dsmith_ | when I was deploying open office | Jun 06 06:18 |
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| schestowitz | You want to read this: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.T... | Jun 06 06:18 |
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| dsmith_ | his qualm was, but ift can;t print envelopes | Jun 06 06:19 |
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| dsmith_ | so he said its crap | Jun 06 06:19 |
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| schestowitz | FTA: ""The majority of Microsoft oriented corporate IT staff I've worked with have a sort of reverential fear of Linux. They like to talk about it in a respectful sort of way, but they are often afraid to actually use it. Deploying a Linux server without an outside support agreement is a very scary task to users who have felt safe for years in their codependent relationship with Microsoft." | Jun 06 06:19 |
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| dsmith_ | we went from 2003 --> for no reason...sigh | Jun 06 06:19 |
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| dsmith_ | roy, yep I agree | Jun 06 06:20 |
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| dsmith_ | I had 4 linux servers | Jun 06 06:20 |
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| dsmith_ | :P | Jun 06 06:20 |
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| schestowitz | Tell them about Google. | Jun 06 06:20 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: I'm thinking about making a website. To help in that area (education about Linux), do you link that would be a good idea | Jun 06 06:20 |
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| schestowitz | Explain to them that a place managed by the mighty GNU ( ;-) ) is able to grow without worries and dependence. | Jun 06 06:21 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it's always valuable. There are too many Linux sites that are no longer active. | Jun 06 06:22 |
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| schestowitz | Whilst Microsoft grabs more control over the likes of Digg and Slashdot. | Jun 06 06:22 |
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| dsmith_ | roy, all I will get is a blank stare. They are already having problems with wanting to do things with software but cannot. and I reiterated that *this* is why we should not have gone with propritary software ever. | Jun 06 06:22 |
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| dsmith_ | I'm tired preaching | Jun 06 06:23 |
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| dsmith_ | time to move on with my own stuff | Jun 06 06:23 |
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| ZiggyFish | short of funds at the moment, hopefully, I can register the domain on monday (sunday your time) | Jun 06 06:23 |
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| *dsmith_ patiently awaits for them whole mess to crash | Jun 06 06:23 |
| dsmith_ | *chuckle* | Jun 06 06:23 |
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| schestowitz | Hosting can be cheap. It's mainly a time constraint. | Jun 06 06:23 |
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| schestowitz | dsmith, they would blame something else. People are bad at being judgemental when it comes to own decision. | Jun 06 06:24 |
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| dsmith_ | yep.. | Jun 06 06:24 |
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| schestowitz | Look back at the remark about Ballmer threats as a \good' thing for Linux | Jun 06 06:24 |
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| ZiggyFish | I was thinking of going with godaddy, ($50/year), is that a good price | Jun 06 06:24 |
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| dsmith_ | everyone is complainging about thier machines being slow... but thats what they get for running office 2007 and mcafee | Jun 06 06:25 |
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| dsmith_ | I have a godaddy site | Jun 06 06:25 |
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| schestowitz | I don't like GoDaddy. If you start small, then my host (Catalyst2) is cheaper and probably better. | Jun 06 06:25 |
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| dsmith_ | thats kinda what I paid | Jun 06 06:25 |
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| dsmith_ | hmm | Jun 06 06:25 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.catalyst2.com/ | Jun 06 06:26 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: what software (php, mysql versions?) | Jun 06 06:26 |
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| dsmith_ | hmm $18 | Jun 06 06:27 |
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| dsmith_ | annual | Jun 06 06:27 |
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| dsmith_ | I want to learn drupal and joomla | Jun 06 06:27 |
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| dsmith_ | just haven't bothered to sit down and play with it | Jun 06 06:27 |
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| schestowitz | php5+4, IIRC (based on filename extension). Can't recall which MySQL version. | Jun 06 06:28 |
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| schestowitz | It's the support which makes Catalyst2 very good. Uptime is excellent too. | Jun 06 06:28 |
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| ZiggyFish | €£79.99 = ???(australian dollars) | Jun 06 06:28 |
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| dsmith_ | pounds | Jun 06 06:29 |
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| schestowitz | Has that changed? | Jun 06 06:29 |
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| schestowitz | When I started there it was just around 20, I think. | Jun 06 06:29 |
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| schestowitz | For basic packages. | Jun 06 06:29 |
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| dsmith_ | I do have a need of hosting a gantt chart | Jun 06 06:29 |
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| dsmith_ | without using project server | Jun 06 06:29 |
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| dsmith_ | *sigh* | Jun 06 06:29 |
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| ZiggyFish | how many pounds to a dollar? | Jun 06 06:30 |
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| schestowitz | USD/AUD? | Jun 06 06:31 |
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| ZiggyFish | AUD | Jun 06 06:31 |
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| dsmith_ | hmmm just found a solution http://spreadsheets.google.... | Jun 06 06:31 |
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| dsmith_ | google seems to have a solution for this | Jun 06 06:31 |
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| dsmith_ | sweet | Jun 06 06:32 |
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| dsmith_ | brb | Jun 06 06:32 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe we should try to stick to topic... | Jun 06 06:32 |
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| ZiggyFish | lol | Jun 06 06:33 |
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| dsmith_ | agred | Jun 06 06:35 |
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| *ZiggyFish listens to the echo | Jun 06 06:41 |
| schestowitz | Heh. I didn't mean that in a bad way. | Jun 06 06:43 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft's assaults have been eerily quiet recently, but it's trying to befriend its competitors. | Jun 06 06:44 |
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| dsmith_ | I know and I agree with your last comment | Jun 06 06:45 |
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| dsmith_ | beare the wolf that bears fruit | Jun 06 06:45 |
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| dsmith_ | *beware | Jun 06 06:45 |
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| schestowitz | On the other hand, Microsoft had little news _in general_. | Jun 06 06:46 |
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| schestowitz | Not many new products. Almost nothing. Kicking the dead Zune (horse). | Jun 06 06:46 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe they bet on Novell et al bringing some revenue during existence as a patent holder (troll) | Jun 06 06:47 |
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| schestowitz | Which aligns perfectly from last year's predication of someone whom I know from USENET. | Jun 06 06:47 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft's engineers are reportedly spending more times filing away (at the expense of practical NNOVA~1) | Jun 06 06:48 |
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| *dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 06 07:15 |
| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: didn't Microsoft release Windows Search 4, http://www.itnews.com.au/News/NewsSt... | Jun 06 07:16 |
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| ZiggyFish | Microsoft has released its Windows Search 4 to the web, updating its Vista, XP, Server 2003 and Windows Home Server offerings. | Jun 06 07:16 |
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| schestowitz | It sounds like a low-key thing. | Jun 06 07:18 |
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| schestowitz | They'll try to force people to use their wares. It's the only thing they 'know' (READ: have the nerve) how to do. | Jun 06 07:18 |
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| schestowitz | Observation: Paul Krill messes up again... ( http://feeds.pcworld.com/~r/pcwo... ) ... Giving credit to Microsoft (in a sense) for multi-core stuff where Microsoft merely plays catchup and doing the Silverblight [sic] boosting. He also did it last week. | Jun 06 07:30 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: Silverlight should be a swear world | Jun 06 07:58 |
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| ZiggyFish | *word | Jun 06 07:58 |
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| schestowitz | Someone told me at the time that the choice of name (originally intended to be called Sparke when the word leaked around 2005) is intended to get ease, peace of mind. Silver. Light. I do try to associate it with negative things in BN.com (picture of washing powder labelled "barf", also a toilet seat). | Jun 06 08:01 |
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| schestowitz | HTML = open, light, silver, cross-platform, free; XAML = closed, dark, proprietary, Windows-based, binary, not secure. | Jun 06 08:03 |
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| ZiggyFish | I agree. | Jun 06 08:10 |
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| schestowitz | HTML needs a marketing team [sarcasm] | Jun 06 08:11 |
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| schestowitz | Mind you, Microsoft employees are leaving comments in ZDNet to advertise Silverblight. I caught this. | Jun 06 08:11 |
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| ZiggyFish | maybe HTML need the Microsoft marketing ;) | Jun 06 08:12 |
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| ZiggyFish | wouldn't suprise me | Jun 06 08:12 |
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| schestowitz | Well, they have Wilson there already. Microsoft is seriously f*ing up HTML from the inside. | Jun 06 08:12 |
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| schestowitz | That's why I fear their involvement with ODF. | Jun 06 08:12 |
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| schestowitz | In about an hour I'll show you (in BN.com) what Patrick D and Alex Brown are up to. | Jun 06 08:12 |
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| ZiggyFish | I fear it to, so do a lot of people. | Jun 06 08:12 |
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| ZiggyFish | nice | Jun 06 08:13 |
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| schestowitz | PJ and Groklaw watch what they do. | Jun 06 08:13 |
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| schestowitz | It seems like Novell has just lost a chief figure. | Jun 06 10:40 |
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| schestowitz | "From 1988 to 1998, Arthur served in various sales, marketing and general management roles for Novell Inc. His last position was VP and GM of Novell's Internet Infrastructure Division, which was focused on Novell's directory services, security offerings and software platforms for Internet Service Providers. Arthur holds a BS from the University of California at Davis." | Jun 06 10:40 |
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| schestowitz | Source: http://www.businesswire.com/port... | Jun 06 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, never mind. He left Novell some years ago. | Jun 06 10:43 |
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| *PetoKraus (n=pk@slavka.valec.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 06 10:53 |
| PetoKraus | hello there. | Jun 06 10:53 |
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| schestowitz | Howdy. | Jun 06 10:54 |
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| schestowitz | Your translation of the article is in LXer. There's feedback from a fellow countryman as well. | Jun 06 10:54 |
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| schestowitz | LinuxToday linked to us yesterday, as well. | Jun 06 10:54 |
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| PetoKraus | good | Jun 06 10:55 |
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| PetoKraus | :) i am getting famous xD | Jun 06 10:55 |
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| PetoKraus | can you throw me a link? | Jun 06 10:55 |
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| PetoKraus | i seen the comments on BN | Jun 06 10:55 |
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| *ZiggyFish has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jun 06 10:57 |
| *Eruaran has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jun 06 10:57 |
| *tessier_ has quit (heinlein.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jun 06 10:57 |
| schestowitz | What just happened? It's like you hit the missiles button. :-) | Jun 06 10:57 |
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| PetoKraus | if i consider all my... | Jun 06 10:59 |
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| PetoKraus | free software affiliation as a product of | Jun 06 10:59 |
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| PetoKraus | failed hard drive... | Jun 06 10:59 |
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| *Eruaran (n=fuggster@183.110.208.203.cable.dyn.gex.ncable.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 06 10:59 |
| schestowitz | It's like 3 people left at the same time (or got disconnected) | Jun 06 11:00 |
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| PetoKraus | aha | Jun 06 11:00 |
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| PetoKraus | net split | Jun 06 11:00 |
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| PetoKraus | that's when parts of network get out of sync. | Jun 06 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, I see. I'm new to IRC. Had a ~12-year recess. | Jun 06 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | Just spotted a funny contradictory message in a new article: http://searchenterpriselinux.techtar... : 'Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise is "light years ahead" of its competitors, Nickle added. "They all should take their hats off to Novell for improving the Linux kernel and giving the results back to the community."'. | Jun 06 11:02 |
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| schestowitz | See the contradiction? | Jun 06 11:03 |
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| PetoKraus | well | Jun 06 11:04 |
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| PetoKraus | the light years ahead seems weird | Jun 06 11:05 |
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| PetoKraus | and i didn't know they did some extensive work on the kernel... | Jun 06 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | Well, but if they give it back, how can they be "light years ahead"? | Jun 06 11:07 |
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| PetoKraus | that;s true. | Jun 06 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | Either the guy quoted or Novell cannot understand the GPL. Novell knows the rules, but it uses the Microsoft deal to change them. | Jun 06 11:10 |
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| PetoKraus | novell was one of the nails in the coffin of my Computing Science studies | Jun 06 11:13 |
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| PetoKraus | well, one of the things which persuaded me to not switch from Chemistry to CS | Jun 06 11:14 |
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| ZiggyFish | nice, are you studying Software devel? | Jun 06 11:14 |
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| PetoKraus | (another one was CISCO VPN secured wifi access) | Jun 06 11:14 |
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| PetoKraus | ZiggyFish: no, Chemistry with Forensic Studies. | Jun 06 11:14 |
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| ZiggyFish | oh | Jun 06 11:14 |
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| PetoKraus | people are generally stupid, and chances are, that you'll meet less people in Chem lab, than in software development | Jun 06 11:15 |
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| schestowitz | The s/w industry changes fast. I told my bother not to go there. I told him to go for h/w.. | Jun 06 11:15 |
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| ZiggyFish | lol, trust me there are more stupid people in the software development industry, then anyother industry | Jun 06 11:16 |
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| schestowitz | Hardware can hardly be made a commodity like software. Watch how low the price of PCs got. Well, it can never be $0. Services are not programming, but the two are related. | Jun 06 11:16 |
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| PetoKraus | what is needed are new ideas. I don't have any yet. And i don't need to be computing scientist to invent something computing-related... | Jun 06 11:17 |
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| PetoKraus | and, ZiggyFish, I KNOW :) | Jun 06 11:17 |
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| PetoKraus | if i take my CS class as a sample.... well, the vision is dark. | Jun 06 11:17 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: put it this way, at least your boss know what he wants. I've had some contracts, where even the boss, could work out what he wanted (and of all things he insisted on using sharepoint) | Jun 06 11:19 |
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| ZiggyFish | *couldn't work out * | Jun 06 11:19 |
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| PetoKraus | y | Jun 06 11:19 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: don't know. The problem is usually trying to get the same vision as the boss. The amount of question, you have to ask (simple because they don't think of all of the idea) | Jun 06 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | What you call "ideas" the likes of Microsoft and Novell call "solutions" or "innovation", but unless it's scientific computing or hardware design (physics), what can you do? | Jun 06 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | There are productivity and automation tricks, sure... | Jun 06 11:21 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: I say tomarto you say tomato | Jun 06 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | tomarto fools CIOs ;-) | Jun 06 11:24 |
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| schestowitz | Watch this comment about IBM's rebranded old OOo: | Jun 06 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | "I just downloaded Symphony. I was thinking it would be an "improved" OpenOffice with some tunning from IBM. | Jun 06 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | All the opposite, I was presented with a pre-alfa version of something far away of beeing useful. It's so buggy that remind me of version 0.01 of Abiword or Gnumeric. | Jun 06 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | I don't known what obscure intentions IBM keeps in mind by it looks to me the final purpose is not other than undermine the reputation of ODF and OpenOffice an Sun." | Jun 06 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3... | Jun 06 11:25 |
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| ZiggyFish | I like the spelling he has. pre-alfa (with spelling like that, can he be trusted) | Jun 06 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I know the poster. He is credible. | Jun 06 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | IBM and Microsoft are similar. They are oversized companies that moved overseas (or use Visas) to raise profits and they are likely to cling onto patents to stay relevant. | Jun 06 11:28 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: I don't really agree with that, IBM is a lot (and I mean a lot) better than what Microsoft is. I get IBMs RSS feeds. And they have a lot of interesting stuff. and the articles they have show that they know a lot about Linux(both it's pitfalls, and it's advantages), Also they contribute to open source. whereas Microsoft doesn't do any of those things. | Jun 06 11:31 |
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| ZiggyFish | As for outsourcing, a lot of companies do do this. a lot of banks do this(which is more worrying than software companies) | Jun 06 11:32 |
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| schestowitz | Quabec has just 'pulled a BECTA' ( http://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php ): "By order of Microsoft, Québec government refuses info on contracts... A few weeks ago, we filed several access to information requests concerning 'umbrella contracts' the Québec government had granted to IBM, Novell and Microsoft." Ha! | Jun 06 11:34 |
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| ZiggyFish | lol | Jun 06 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, IBM is luckily not fighting against FOSS. Same with Oracle, to a degree. Oracle will be better when Ellison finally retires (he has two people fighting for inheritance... those who report to him).But... maybe better the devil whom we know. | Jun 06 11:35 |
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| schestowitz | Gates and Ballmer's fights are coming to light now as well. | Jun 06 11:35 |
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| schestowitz | WSJ article exposed this and other sites like CNET are biting. | Jun 06 11:36 |
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| ZiggyFish | both IBM and Oracle are embracing FOSS. | Jun 06 11:37 |
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| ZiggyFish | when will computerworld wake up to these events? | Jun 06 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | Not FOSS, Linux. | Jun 06 11:38 |
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| ZiggyFish | I read ComputerWorld, when I want to read a Microsoft biased article on the subject. | Jun 06 11:40 |
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| schestowitz | Follow the money. But SJVN is writing for them now (a blog). | Jun 06 11:41 |
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| schestowitz | He also told me that he writes for an IEEE journal. | Jun 06 11:41 |
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| ZiggyFish | I little off topic, but do you watch sport? | Jun 06 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Not anymore. Hardly. | Jun 06 11:45 |
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| ZiggyFish | oh, I watch a lot of sport over the weekend (NRL(National Rugby League), union, AFL(Australian football league), Soccer) | Jun 06 11:47 |
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| schestowitz | Nowadays, I'd rather be /part/ of the activity, not just watch it. Television grew a generation of sportsmanship on a couch. I did watch a lot of sports when I was a big younger. | Jun 06 11:49 |
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| ZiggyFish | lol | Jun 06 11:50 |
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| schestowitz | "bit younger" (typo) | Jun 06 11:50 |
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| ZiggyFish | oh | Jun 06 11:50 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: I would like to get more involved in the community, just don't know how. That's why I'm creating a linux help website | Jun 06 11:54 |
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| ZiggyFish | Alhough lately, I've been helping out in the ##linux room | Jun 06 11:57 |
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| schestowitz | HOWTOs are useful when they are unique and detailed. I'm not sure what's most valuable; I personally concentrate on something I've studied for a while, esp. ways in which Microsoft sabotages FOSS from the iinside and out. As time goes by, I accumulate more knowledge, type it down and if the sharing interests some viewers, that's excellent. | Jun 06 11:57 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: nice to here. I've done a lot of research in to Microsoft (in fact I have bill gates book "the road ahead"), and why they are a "success", and what they have done over the years. | Jun 06 12:00 |
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| schestowitz | Bill Gates will tell you /his/ version of the story.. It's like reading Mein Kampf to learn about WWII (pardon the Godwin approch). | Jun 06 12:01 |
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| ZiggyFish | anyway I'm off for the night | Jun 06 12:02 |
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| ZiggyFish | see ya | Jun 06 12:02 |
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| taq | 'morning | Jun 06 13:59 |
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| schestowitz | Hi there! | Jun 06 14:01 |
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| taq | didn't know about the IRC channel | Jun 06 14:03 |
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| taq | I'd like to contribute more on the website, but the last monts are really busy here | Jun 06 14:03 |
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| schestowitz | You used to comment, right? | Jun 06 14:04 |
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| schestowitz | You also informed me of stuff via E-mail. | Jun 06 14:04 |
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| taq | yep | Jun 06 14:05 |
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| taq | I've talking about the mono dangers for years here on Brazil | Jun 06 14:05 |
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| taq | something that some years ago made some people a little nervous :-) | Jun 06 14:05 |
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| schestowitz | Does Mono mean monkey also in Portuguese? :-) | Jun 06 14:05 |
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| taq | nops, here is the same English meaning | Jun 06 14:06 |
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| schestowitz | It's a name that doesn't inspire confidence. Monkeys /mimic/. Just like Moonlight as a "lead pony" for Silverlight. | Jun 06 14:07 |
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| taq | btw, thanks God that there is nothing relevant about moonlight on the first year | Jun 06 14:08 |
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| taq | I think that it will sink | Jun 06 14:08 |
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| schestowitz | O'Reilly thinks so too... or at least showing some figures. Microsoft will carry on faking adoption and be slapped for it. | Jun 06 14:09 |
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| schestowitz | Going by the English meaning of mono, all we have is an infectious disease, so hopefully it won't be passed outside Novell. | Jun 06 14:09 |
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| taq | I think microsoft as we know it (thinking about their power) is coming to an end | Jun 06 14:10 |
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| taq | the Yahoo! thing show such kind of thing | Jun 06 14:10 |
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| taq | and now Icahn is doing the exactly thing that ballmer said he would do as an "aggressive option" | Jun 06 14:11 |
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| taq | but he didn't say that *he* would do it :-) | Jun 06 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Jun 06 14:12 |
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| schestowitz | I think Icahn is their proxy battle, but they try to dissociate themselves from it for PR reasons. | Jun 06 14:13 |
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| jbh | the mono devs seem to be pretty incompetant | Jun 06 14:16 |
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| taq | Icahn is the new SCO. | Jun 06 14:16 |
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| jbh | it's taken them a year and still no moonlight 1.0 release ;) | Jun 06 14:16 |
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| taq | jbh: technically, I don't have any issues with mono. But on the dirty side, I have a lot. As a developer, I can't understand why with such good open and *free (libre)* options people insist on the microsoft things. | Jun 06 14:17 |
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| taq | Brb, coffee time here. | Jun 06 14:17 |
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| schestowitz | Developers who come from .NET want Mono, but what can you do...? | Jun 06 14:18 |
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| jbh | I was just reading about vala, sounds like it might be a great way to get people off of mono | Jun 06 14:19 |
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| jbh | but I'm a bit concerned about it using identical syntax to C# | Jun 06 14:19 |
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| jbh | might be an avenue for MS attacks | Jun 06 14:19 |
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| jbh | schestowitz: point them at a C book and tell them to learn a real language? | Jun 06 14:20 |
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| jbh | ;) | Jun 06 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | That's just the problem with swpatents. Short of copycat/copyrights there's this 'similarity' thing. Like Microsoft rips off Java, then threatens. | Jun 06 14:21 |
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| jbh | .NET developers are like VB developers: stupid | Jun 06 14:21 |
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| jbh | and incompetent | Jun 06 14:21 |
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| jbh | yea | Jun 06 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | Not quite. | Jun 06 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | A P/L is just a tool. Even a genius uses a screwdriver sometimes. | Jun 06 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | The problem is a technical and legal one; nothing to do with intelligence at all. | Jun 06 14:23 |
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| jbh | *shrug* | Jun 06 14:24 |
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| schestowitz | Some schools are sadly redirecting students to ASP and .NET. That's quite a sin. | Jun 06 14:25 |
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| taq | back | Jun 06 14:25 |
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| jbh | I get the feeling most .NET devs use .NET because they can't wrap their heads around freeing unused memory | Jun 06 14:25 |
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| jbh | and/or freeing memory when they shouldn't | Jun 06 14:25 |
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| jbh | and so take the easy way out rather than learn | Jun 06 14:26 |
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| taq | schestowitz: the problem for me is the new developers and some that already are using free langs and come to mono/.net | Jun 06 14:26 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Jun 06 14:26 |
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| schestowitz | That's the issue. | Jun 06 14:26 |
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| taq | and web app era may sole this | Jun 06 14:26 |
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| schestowitz | See home page of GTK | Jun 06 14:26 |
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| taq | if it does not use silverlight, of course :-) | Jun 06 14:26 |
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| taq | a good thing is that a lot of "alpha geeks" are moving away from microsoft | Jun 06 14:27 |
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| schestowitz | That's also the difference between dotgnu and mono. | Jun 06 14:27 |
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| taq | I'm involved with Ruby and Rails (I'm the author of the first Brazilian book about Ruby) and people if does not use GNU/Linux, use Macs | Jun 06 14:27 |
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| schestowitz | Let me find something I have in mind (a page that cites us): | Jun 06 14:27 |
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| schestowitz | http://thewolftipi.blogspot.c... | Jun 06 14:28 |
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| taq | well, we'll have to wait and see what happens, things can go their way by the people but not for the companies | Jun 06 14:32 |
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| taq | see a company making all sort of dirty deeds and keep quiet is not a good thing, that's why we need to keep talking about this and about open/free stuff | Jun 06 14:33 |
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| schestowitz | Why don't other sites too? That's what's worrisome. | Jun 06 14:35 |
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| schestowitz | Novell's suits are still gaming people's mind (more on that in BN.com shortly) | Jun 06 14:36 |
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| taq | well, have to go now, but now that I know that there's this channel I'll try to come back often :-) | Jun 06 14:46 |
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| schestowitz | It has been very valuable for discussion and quick discovery of news. The IRC channel was an idea of a reader | Jun 06 14:47 |
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| jbh | ZI got to head off for class in a minute myself | Jun 06 14:47 |
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| schestowitz | nb, I'm always connected. | Jun 06 14:48 |
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| Eruaran | hi roy | Jun 06 16:41 |
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| Eruaran | Got a couple of news items if you dont have them already | Jun 06 16:41 |
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| schestowitz | Cool, go ahead | Jun 06 16:42 |
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| Eruaran | Dell Mini Inspiron: http://gizmodo.com/393815/... | Jun 06 16:42 |
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| Eruaran | And... | Jun 06 16:42 |
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| Eruaran | Mandriva rejects Microsoft patent pact: http://osacyber.wordpress.com/2007/0... | Jun 06 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | *looking* | Jun 06 16:44 |
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| schestowitz | People still wonder if that Dell laptop will run Ubuntu Linux (that's some people's guess). | Jun 06 16:48 |
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| Eruaran | seems like a resonable guess | Jun 06 16:50 |
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| schestowitz | I'm not sure. I think they'll have an XP and Linux option. Then it boils down to pricing and specs. | Jun 06 16:53 |
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| Eruaran | I think they'll offer the choice of ubuntu netbook remix or XP | Jun 06 16:55 |
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| schestowitz | Hopefully no SUSE (they already do this in China). | Jun 06 16:59 |
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| Eruaran | Dell will be looking for a marketing edge and ubuntu has a big following, also staying with ubuntu gives them a bridge to their ubuntu desktops where customers might take the step to ubuntu on a dell desktop as well | Jun 06 16:59 |
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| Eruaran | I don't think they'll go Suse, they'll want to differentiate themselves from HP | Jun 06 17:00 |
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| Eruaran | At least if I was Michael Dell, thats what I'd do :P | Jun 06 17:01 |
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| schestowitz | He uses Ubuntu | Jun 06 17:01 |
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| schestowitz | On his laptop | Jun 06 17:01 |
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| Eruaran | Good news about Mandriva | Jun 06 17:03 |
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| schestowitz | Well... what do you know about Manbo? | Jun 06 17:06 |
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| Eruaran | Manbo ? | Jun 06 17:07 |
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| Eruaran | Dell is doing notebooks pre-loaded with Mandriva in France | Jun 06 17:09 |
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| Eruaran | Manbo labs ? | Jun 06 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it's a Turbolinux-Mandriva collaboration | Jun 06 17:13 |
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| Eruaran | I don't know much about it | Jun 06 17:13 |
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| Eruaran | just reading about it now | Jun 06 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | I wrote about it at the time, Groklaw did as well, the FSF didn't know what to make of it (I asked) and Mandriva's CEO denied anything was to be implied | Jun 06 17:13 |
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| Eruaran | If there ever was, I think that changed after the incident in Africa | Jun 06 17:17 |
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| Eruaran | In Nigeria | Jun 06 17:18 |
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| schestowitz | How so? I know the incident well and I bring it up occasionally. | Jun 06 17:22 |
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| Eruaran | I figure that if Mandriva had ever considered getting cozy with Microsoft, then Microsoft's behaviour in Nigeria might have changed their minds | Jun 06 17:24 |
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| Eruaran | just speculating | Jun 06 17:27 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I thought so too. What Microsoft did in Nigeria is very typical, but it got caught with its pants down and then tried to call bribery "marketing help" (typical too). What's important is the attitude of Mandriva's CEO. Mark Shuttleworth, on the other hand, chats with Microsoft at some capacity. | Jun 06 17:29 |
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| Eruaran | I have a feeling that Mark Shuttleworths chats with folks from Microsoft may have a 'know thine enemy' aspect to them. | Jun 06 17:30 |
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| Eruaran | But then again, antagonistic behaviour is not his style, I wouldn't really expect to hear any ascerbic remarks from Mark Shuttleworth about Microsoft or any other corporation. | Jun 06 17:32 |
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| schestowitz | It's nothing to worry about. It's not like Microsoft tries to trap him. He just wants to resolve issues around codecs. | Jun 06 17:32 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, he can confront. He attacked Microsoft's deals, accusing them of racketeering and all... | Jun 06 17:33 |
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| Eruaran | oh | Jun 06 17:33 |
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| schestowitz | The apologetic type is actually Red Hat's new CEO, who is too polite IMHO. | Jun 06 17:34 |
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| Eruaran | They both rejected Microsofts patent deals, and thats what counts. | Jun 06 17:35 |
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| schestowitz | Well, the former CEO did. Same with the current one, but I'm not sure he was approached. | Jun 06 17:37 |
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| Eruaran | Microsoft's deals are a protection racket. This sort of behaviour should be prosecuted in court and viewed in exactly the same way as any other protection racket. | Jun 06 17:40 |
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| Eruaran | Hasn't Red Hat hired a legal team specifically for IP issues under the current CEO ? | Jun 06 17:45 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, at least 2 people. | Jun 06 17:45 |
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| schestowitz | As for Microsoft obeying low, well... whose law? http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Govern... | Jun 06 17:46 |
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| schestowitz | Corrupt systems permit for corrupt and aggressive businesses to thrive. | Jun 06 17:46 |
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| Eruaran | yes | Jun 06 17:47 |
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| schestowitz | Some of these firms ought to move overseas. | Jun 06 17:52 |
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| schestowitz | Away from the system that fails to regulate itself. Just MHO. | Jun 06 17:53 |
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| Eruaran | yes | Jun 06 17:55 |
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| Eruaran | Its late here, gtg | Jun 06 17:57 |
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| Eruaran | "we don’t believe it is necessary for us to get protection from Microsoft to do our job or to pay protection money to anyone" - François Bancilhon (CEO, Mandriva) | Jun 06 18:03 |
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| Eruaran | bbl | Jun 06 18:03 |
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| schestowitz | I din't think he likes Ballmer. Does /anyone/? | Jun 06 18:05 |
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| schestowitz | IWill be back in a few hours... | Jun 06 19:40 |
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| zoobab | hi | Jun 06 19:58 |
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| PetoKraus | I've got a serious question. Why is the leading man of ODF SUCH A FANNY? | Jun 06 20:06 |
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| PetoKraus | gn guys | Jun 06 22:44 |
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