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06.16.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 15th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:29 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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schestowitz Just spotted this one about Apple/AT&T fantasy world: “It’s just like the “$100 laptop”! Except not rugged, with a tiny screen sans dedicated reading mode, without a reasonable prolonged-use input device, with a $100 fee for a software development certificate, without USB ports or a video camera, with a prohibition on interpreted software and a by-design inability to share software due to DRM,…” Jun 15 07:07
schestowitz “…and requiring wi-fi access points or expensive 3G GSM infrastructure to communicate. And, um, with a $200 retail price after massive subsidy by AT&T which attaches it to a mandatory two thousand dollar contract.” Source: http://radian.org/notebook/3g-jackassery Jun 15 07:08
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schestowitz Big impact news (if it materialises): http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=a… Jun 15 07:22
dsmith_ mmm Jun 15 08:32
dsmith_ I have not seen the linux splash top yet Jun 15 08:32
dsmith_ sounds cool Jun 15 08:32
schestowitz ASUS will have it put on over 12 million boards per year. If they can manage to put it on more boards (or others imitate/adopt DeviceVM), that’ll be something. Linux as default O/S on all PCs one day? (I’m exaggerating here) Jun 15 08:37
dsmith_ perhaps Jun 15 08:38
dsmith_ alot of ppl do not know what linux is Jun 15 08:38
dsmith_ same with open office Jun 15 08:38
schestowitz Practically, for many people it’s just a case of running Windows ME2/ME3 under GNU/Linux. Jun 15 08:38
*dsmith_ is trying out kde4 at the moment Jun 15 08:39
schestowitz I trust Aaron, but what do you make of this?  http://blog.lydiapintscher.de/20… http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/06/maybe-peo… Jun 15 08:39
dsmith_ I’ll have to try out the folderview thing Jun 15 08:42
dsmith_ I read the earlier one about 21 bugs Jun 15 08:42
dsmith_ I am new to kde4 Jun 15 08:42
dsmith_ getting it to run in vmware was a pain Jun 15 08:43
dsmith_ well, it would work but it wasn’t stable at the least Jun 15 08:43
dsmith_ i have an older zt3000 laptop Jun 15 08:44
schestowitz I have 3.8.x (before final) installed at home, but I just ran a few apps under it. No crashes. Jun 15 08:44
dsmith_ kde4 installed sweet Jun 15 08:44
dsmith_ 4.1 Jun 15 08:44
schestowitz I just want to run the newer applications (preferably with Plasma) under a kde(3)-desktop Jun 15 08:45
schestowitz From a marketing point of view, KDE4 was a blunder. They ought to have said that KDE 4.0 was developer-only _right from the start_ and encourage regular users only to explore it in preparation. I wrote about it in my personal blog a few weeks ago. actually Jun 15 08:46
dsmith_ agreed Jun 15 08:48
dsmith_ seems stable to me Jun 15 08:50
schestowitz I’m not sure I’ll try 4.1 though. Well, I rarely use ‘the desktop’ (Konqueror, panels, etc.). I do a lot of things on the Web and rely just on a few applications. The way I use the desktop changed a lot. Jun 15 08:54
*dsmith_ understands Jun 15 08:55
*dsmith_ wonders what MS has to say about linux splashtop Jun 15 08:56
schestowitz There’s lot of legacy (people sticking to old habits). I never use office suites and multi-connected applications have to be encouraged. Aaron is right about plasmoids and he implements them well (in the sense that they are ‘Web’ oriented/aware). Problem is: most target audience might be dinosaurs. Jun 15 08:57
schestowitz MS is attacking Splashtop, methinks. See: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/… Jun 15 08:58
schestowitz I think — just *think* — that I saw a Microsoft response that’s technical a few days ago. Maybe it was in preparation or just a rumour. I wish I remembered. Jun 15 08:59
dsmith_ haha, remember the dinosaur adverts from MS? Jun 15 08:59
dsmith_ lol Jun 15 08:59
schestowitz Wait, I’ll find it. I used it against the Windows Munchkins before. Jun 15 09:01
dsmith_ lol Jun 15 09:01
dsmith_ i’m reading.. Jun 15 09:01
dsmith_ you should find one of those ad’s and toss it on the page someday Jun 15 09:01
dsmith_ haha Jun 15 09:01
dsmith_ brb Jun 15 09:01
schestowitz http://microsoft-office.navajo… Jun 15 09:02
schestowitz I won’t putnit on BN though because it leads to credibility loss. BTW, just found this site: http://microsofthaters.wordpress.com/ (whoever runs it put us on the sidebar) Jun 15 09:03
dsmith_ I’ve got my kids brainwashed: You don’t use Google, and you don’t use an iPod.” Jun 15 09:07
schestowitz That’s STeveB, right? Jun 15 09:08
dsmith_ yep Jun 15 09:11
schestowitz I didn’t look, but I imagine it’s from that blog. Jun 15 09:11
dsmith_ i Just realized something, why aren’t we using google gmail at he office Jun 15 09:13
dsmith_ have to ponder that one Jun 15 09:13
dsmith_ replace exchange.. Jun 15 09:13
schestowitz Privacy for starters  but then again, most people don’t encrypt their mail, so this point is moot. it’s FUD. Jun 15 09:14
dsmith_ and outlook Jun 15 09:14
dsmith_ yep Jun 15 09:14
schestowitz Come to think of it. Jun 15 09:14
dsmith_ i do know that its not encrypted in any manner Jun 15 09:14
schestowitz Microsoft used the Burton Group mouthpiece under a year ago to spread the Google Apps FUD. The WSJ called it a propaganda. Jun 15 09:15
schestowitz I still struggle to convince friends to install PGP Jun 15 09:15
dsmith_ burton piece was called propaganda? Jun 15 09:15
schestowitz The UK now wants to keep record of all E-mails and calls. Jun 15 09:15
dsmith_ hmmm Jun 15 09:15
dsmith_ I use to use PGP long ago Jun 15 09:16
schestowitz Well, Microsoft actually had an ‘anti-Google Apps’ page rather than one extolling the virtues of its own offerings. Jun 15 09:16
schestowitz And Microsoft doesn’t realise why people displike the company so must (those that understand how it operated anyway). Jun 15 09:16
dsmith_ hmmm Jun 15 09:16
dsmith_ I am trying to skinny my way into a CIO position Jun 15 09:17
dsmith_ we’ll see Jun 15 09:17
dsmith_ i’m off to bed Jun 15 09:18
dsmith_ gn Jun 15 09:18
schestowitz Good luck with bureaucracy. It often escalates to people to whom Windows is computer [sic] and they want t protect their habit. Jun 15 09:18
dsmith_ er.. morning to ya Jun 15 09:18
schestowitz See you later. Jun 15 09:18
dsmith_ aint that the truth Jun 15 09:18
dsmith_ MS crack Jun 15 09:18
dsmith_ lol Jun 15 09:18
schestowitz Read the GL interview with Quinn. Jun 15 09:19
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schestowitz OBS: demonisation in the press…  http://blogs.smh.com.au/mashup… “Mac zealots,” it says. Always mind these words. Religious propaganda term. Jun 15 17:14
Eruaran Hi schestowitz, got any news ? Jun 15 17:18
schestowitz Just spotted something interesting from Tim O’Reilly moments ago, but the rest I’ve posted as a list of hyperlinks in the morning. I cam back just a short while ago. As for BN.com, I find that more people put it in their blogroll, but there’s also the crowd that tries to stick label to the site and warn those who link to it. Jun 15 17:21
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schestowitz Hi, maxstirne Jun 15 18:15
maxstirner Good afternoon sir! :) Jun 15 18:20
maxstirner What was that controversy about the logs the other day? Jun 15 18:21
schestowitz Busy week ahead: Red Hat Summit near Novell’s headquarters, Firefox 3.0 released almost at the same time as OpenSUSE 11.0. Jun 15 18:21
schestowitz Well, some Novell staff and SUSE developers came here. They called it “Internet war” (well, one of them did). They also read in one of the older logs that we hope to counter OSUSE 11.0 release hype. Novell’s news has been dry, dry, dry recently. I’m scraping the bottom of the barrel to find some. Jun 15 18:22
maxstirner I see, I did not I missed out on all of the action the other day Jun 15 18:23
maxstirner The opensuses are obviously going to be depressed about the deal and all of the attention youre subsequently bringing on it Jun 15 18:24
schestowitz I also thought about the name ‘Open’SUSE earlier. Like ‘Open’Solaris, it’s deceiving. Just as we sometimes call SLES|D Ballnux (not my idea), how about something like OwnpenSUSE or HobbynSUSE? OpenSUSE gives positive thoughts, connotation, perception. Jun 15 18:25
maxstirner I used to be on (Open) Suse years back, a computer geek at a German Uni installed it for me. It was still a small local setup back then Jun 15 18:25
schestowitz I used SUSE for years and loved. it. I was on several mailing lists, newsgroups, and I was even helping people. Jun 15 18:26
maxstirner Community spirit. Then got bought out by wrong corporate sponsor.. Jun 15 18:26
maxstirner The ubuntus are really just in luck that shuttleworth has got millions to spass which may keep the software relatively “clean” as it were Jun 15 18:27
schestowitz Yes, but I look ahead: Ron Hovsepian, Novell’s CEO (just some weeks ago) said “Our partnership with Microsoft continues to expand.” Jun 15 18:28
maxstirner I freely admit I left MS for political reasons and concerns regarding the spyware and stability, my technical abilities were/are rather limited Jun 15 18:28
schestowitz Microsoft was willing to go into debt of over 20 billion by buying Yahoo. Do you know what Novell’s market cap is? It’s shocking. Jun 15 18:28
maxstirner I love that interop web page, the corporate logos ™ (r) side by side is just sickening Jun 15 18:28
maxstirner MS had some really bad financial outlook reviews just now (as per the links on your site i might add…) Jun 15 18:29
maxstirner their future isnt looking rosy… it’s the dinosaur disease… wrong type of creature in wrong (changed) environment Jun 15 18:30
schestowitz By the way, I don’t know if Novell has in the bank what it claims to have and when Novell buys a company (it recently bought two) I think of them as possible Microsoft assets-to-be.  As someone in Sys-con said recently,  the fines Microsoft would need to  pay for WordPerfect almost outweigh the value of Novell. Jun 15 18:30
schestowitz Well, far from it, but it makes it a smart business decision to buy (exploit) Novell, Yahoo!-style. Jun 15 18:31
maxstirner You are saying they may just merge :D Jun 15 18:31
schestowitz Merge is a strong word because Microsoft is worth like 100 times more, IIRC. Jun 15 18:31
maxstirner Buyout obv.. nice idea, they could get some sort of IP/Patent synergies going, under US law at least Jun 15 18:32
schestowitz They wanted Yahoo! also for patents, one lawyer argued in his formal report. Jun 15 18:32
schestowitz Do you want the link? Jun 15 18:32
maxstirner I see.. Thanks, I’ll trust you on that.. Jun 15 18:33
schestowitz For completeness, let me find it quickly… Jun 15 18:33
maxstirner I feel I’ve come to understand a bit more about it lately.. Jun 15 18:33
maxstirner As I feel rather confident about the technological evolution in terms of licensing regimes, I think the picture may be more of an SCO-type role for MS in the future, trying to tax people on the basis of what it supposedly invented first? Jun 15 18:34
schestowitz Via < zoobab >:http://www.sourcewire.com/releas… Jun 15 18:34
maxstirner thx Jun 15 18:34
schestowitz “While Microsoft is undeniably the leader in terms of sheer number of patents/applications spread across over 100 IPCs (international patent classification codes), it has possibly lagged when compared to Yahoo! and Google in terms of innovation. Yahoo! emerges as a significant innovative player in this regard,..” probably more so than even Google. Given this scenario, Microsoft’s potential acquisition of Yahoo! would definitely prop up its Jun 15 18:34
schestowitz IP arsenal against its battle for technology supremacy against Google. Jun 15 18:34
maxstirner the thing with all those companies is that theyre sharkish whilst in the garage, and then get dinosaurish post-IPO in terms of innovative potential Jun 15 18:35
schestowitz I wrote about this two weeks ago (Next SCO): Jun 15 18:35
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/200… Jun 15 18:36
maxstirner Online advertising market will get all the TV advertising dollar in near future.. I certainly concur there.. and MS never worked out how to spell interweb properly Jun 15 18:36
maxstirner MS problem is that yahoo is a mature public corp, usually they just buy out startups with good ideas when theyre still in the garage Jun 15 18:37
schestowitz TV/PC/PVR likely to coverge.. Jun 15 18:37
maxstirner Thats been predicted since the mid-90s ;) Jun 15 18:37
schestowitz Therin lies the trouble. With the XBox sinking (another top manager just fled), the living room ‘Trojan horse’ plan (for VoD) sinks also. Jun 15 18:38
maxstirner a lot of the spending power has certainly moved to the pc/interweb in recent years, its a priviledged demographic anyhow, and online purchasing has grown exponentially Jun 15 18:38
schestowitz Sony TVs begin to have Linux in them and others from the far east follow the same footsteps, so Microsoft won’t be happy. Microsoft has its IPTV IP and Silverlight (codecs and all). Soapbox fell down the drain/toilet. Jun 15 18:39
maxstirner but i understood SCO failed in their particular effort? Jun 15 18:39
maxstirner I do think splashtop on TV would/will be killer app Jun 15 18:39
schestowitz Microsoft pulls SCO-like strings against Google’s online video (monopoly with about 70%). They use Viacom and others possibly. They encourage them to attack Google in a way. Jun 15 18:40
schestowitz Let me back this with URLs if you require them. Jun 15 18:41
schestowitz Yes, Splashtop fits nicely on laptops now too. ASAS announced this just a few weeks ago. First: all boards to have DeviceVM’s stuff; then, laptops too. All of them. Now they reach out for more OEMs (the Big Boys) Jun 15 18:42
maxstirner Google and youtube merger sccary moment in my books Jun 15 18:42
maxstirner I think splashtop could replace OS entirely even, as is almost the case on eeepc Jun 15 18:42
schestowitz DoubleClick also, but Microsoft wanted them too (got rejected) Jun 15 18:43
maxstirner A flash-based HDD with linux OS distro, then media for /home Jun 15 18:43
schestowitz People love application. They just need an OS they don’t have to think about. Linux is a good fit. Jun 15 18:43
schestowitz SSD. Linus is excited about it too. Jun 15 18:44
schestowitz He had a major HDD crash recently. Jun 15 18:44
maxstirner :D Jun 15 18:44
maxstirner Thats the funny thing, MS really f*cked up a wet dream global monopoly themselves Jun 15 18:45
schestowitz I can find some BillG/SteveB mail that shows disdain for services. Jun 15 18:45
maxstirner services? SAAS? Jun 15 18:47
maxstirner when i got new pc set up for parentals, vista dualcore this and that, and my pc-phobic mother said upon boot “its even slower than the last one” (xp pc) i knew MS are disintegrating :D Jun 15 18:48
schestowitz Yes, Gates saw this back in 1995 (circa 1995) and then decided to {f**ing kill}^TM Netscape. I’m hardly surprised that IE never evolved much. That would mean cannibalisation. Jun 15 18:48
schestowitz Microsoft know this too (disintegration), this the early signs of SCO tactics. Jun 15 18:49
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RogerBacon wow, what wrong with the nvell – microsoft deal ? Jun 15 18:50
maxstirner I feel there are certain imperatives for govts to deploy FOSS now to foster local industry. The only people who really pay the MS tax are the public corporations and the govts anyhow, due to accountability Jun 15 18:50
schestowitz Hi, <RogerBacon>. Have you seen ttp://boycottnovell.com/no-to-novell/ ? Jun 15 18:51
maxstirner http://boycottnovell.com/no-to-novell/ Jun 15 18:52
schestowitz <maxstirner>, it’s worse in the UK than in the US, I think. They protect their friends, jobs, moneyflow, ever-ageing computer skills, etc. Mind the BECTA scam from last Friday. Jun 15 18:52
maxstirner yes, i did spot that.. the MS partner system does hand out some local rewards. but i feel in some parts its even the comparatively limited skills in putting together corporate-looking quotes on the part of the linux community Jun 15 18:54
schestowitz Here is the issue. Collaboration that involves the kernel brings together Oracle, H-P, IBM, Intel and many more parties, yet governments and public services worldwide refuse to (or are afraid of collaborating). Even universities have already gotten past that barrier. Jun 15 18:54
maxstirner Its insane really. I am currently living in Brazil, and they love their linux (as documented on their site) Jun 15 18:55
maxstirner And why wouldnt they? Paying MS to teach basic html and word processing skills to schoolkids is jsut INSANE Jun 15 18:55
schestowitz They have over 10 semi-established distros. A friend of mine met their minister of culture. He’s a friend of RMS too and a fan of Free software. They think so differently there. Jun 15 18:56
schestowitz \s\teach\train (inverted slash) Jun 15 18:56
maxstirner well i think ecuador and venezuela are natural FOSS-lovers due to left-wing govts. But brazil, although governed by a deeply corrupt business-loving elite, has some progressive policies Jun 15 18:57
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schestowitz Hi, <ed_> Jun 15 18:59
ed_ hi Jun 15 19:00
RogerBacon Open Suse it’s a great distrib Jun 15 19:02
maxstirner I feel though that the limited impact in european public policy, which may be helped by EU commission attitudes, has a lot to do with the origins of GNU/Lx versus the corporate world selling proprietary software. Gartner has established standard costings per workstation, and IT purchasers expect those sort of prices alongside idiotic presenttations and pretty suits etc Jun 15 19:02
RogerBacon *still Jun 15 19:02
maxstirner Roger: I dropped it for dpkg-based distros now, i only have one centos server left which i get really annoyed with sometimes Jun 15 19:03
schestowitz <maxstirner>, have you seen that article about Gartner price-fixing? It was recent. Jun 15 19:04
maxstirner So if you come along and you look like a FOSS hippy and you say its all practically free and you can keep your old workstations, it just doesnt fit into the purchasing officer’s membrane Jun 15 19:04
maxstirner I think it’s probably an article posted by you I’m on about? Jun 15 19:04
schestowitz It’s not just Gartner. Intel also. The collusions got further exposed some months ago (class action suit). Jun 15 19:05
maxstirner I think in some ways a successful linux consultancy would have to make things expensive, and have all those corporate PR / marketing / nonsense bits. Jun 15 19:05
maxstirner indemnification is a word that pops up in this context as well Jun 15 19:05
maxstirner I feel even in hardware things are happening at this stage. Intel’s Atom is IMHO a reaction to the VIA miniboards, cheap, small, power-efficient Jun 15 19:07
schestowitz Services like support and integration should be a form of revenue though. Jun 15 19:07
maxstirner of course they would Jun 15 19:07
schestowitz ARM also. Jun 15 19:07
maxstirner I am just saying that companies such as novell are sadly poised to be much more successful in an environment that wants expensive PR marketing and indemnification delivered by suits in the classical context Jun 15 19:07
schestowitz Just sold over 10 billion chips. One of the biggest Big Lies out there is to do with (computer = desktop). You know what company this fallacy serves. Jun 15 19:08
maxstirner Intel-MS duopoly is about to break (ciao MS) Jun 15 19:08
maxstirner So Intel has been pushing Atom-Linux as a line Jun 15 19:08
schestowitz Novell speaks a lot to Microsoft partners like SAP, to whom Microsoft gives a blessing I suppose. It’s no wonder Novell execs openly call Microsoft “a partner”. Jun 15 19:09
maxstirner That’s progress thanks to linux breaking the windows upgrade cycle Jun 15 19:09
maxstirner They have all those ugly web pages with the corporate logos making love! That interop site is sickening Jun 15 19:09
schestowitz Intel said that it’s pretty much all Linux for MIDs, which Linux is set to dominate based on a report published last week. Jun 15 19:09
schestowitz Wasn’t it orange? Jun 15 19:09
maxstirner Ive been on the same 1.5Ghz Pentium M since 2002, and I am actually planning to LOWER the processor power on next model Jun 15 19:10
schestowitz I dread too much to look. Jun 15 19:10
maxstirner for portability, same for servers I want power-efficient, fanless miniitx Jun 15 19:10
schestowitz I’m on 1.8 at the moment. Jun 15 19:10
ed_ maxstirner: what do you watch the porn with? Jun 15 19:10
maxstirner its funny, I would have never forseen the processing Ghzage maxing out at 3 Ghz for myself Jun 15 19:10
maxstirner porn? youre saying compressed divx avis etc? Jun 15 19:11
schestowitz ed_, doesn’t the joke go, “how am I supposed to fill /that/ with pr0n?” Jun 15 19:11
ed_ yeah that sort of thing Jun 15 19:11
ed_ :-) Jun 15 19:11
maxstirner ed: i dont bother with HDMS.tm.r.com or whatever obviously Jun 15 19:11
ed_ aalib is the answer Jun 15 19:11
maxstirner ed: anything up to dvd is fine on 1.5 Ghz Jun 15 19:11
schestowitz Dual core is for servers only. And people who edit videos… or use Vista maybe. Jun 15 19:11
ed_ maxstirner: yeah if you just want to watch one video, but if you like watching four at once … Jun 15 19:12
ed_ i mean … that’s what dual head is after all… Jun 15 19:12
RogerBacon play game ? Jun 15 19:12
RogerBacon screw that Jun 15 19:12
maxstirner ed: i can’t hack more than one video input at a time Jun 15 19:12
maxstirner bacon: dedicated box for games, i’m over that stage though really Jun 15 19:13
schestowitz Consoles seem to get a lot of the gaming action these days. Larger TV sets in the living room and alll… Wiimote.. Jun 15 19:13
maxstirner bacon: games -> “meatspace” (as youd say) Jun 15 19:13
maxstirner I feel Novell position on interop/mixed environments is a positioning gamble. It looks good in current climate, but they may get overtaken on the left by more radically FOSS sellers Jun 15 19:16
schestowitz Here is my worry.. Jun 15 19:16
schestowitz Red Hat too realises that almost all servers will be virtualised (virtual, not physical, esp. with increased capacity). Jun 15 19:17
maxstirner I think they’re the ones who got to worry really Jun 15 19:17
RogerBacon what the big deal about virtualisation? Jun 15 19:17
schestowitz Now, here’s the thing. While Red Hat foresees taking over 50% of them all (partly at the least… Linux already had 91%+ in HPC if you count virtualised). Jun 15 19:17
maxstirner it just depends on the pace, but if you permit i’ll dare predict ten years and noone will pay for licensing anymore Jun 15 19:17
schestowitz Novell partnered with Microsoft for hypervisor exclusivity. They want to screw Red Hat and pick up royalties. Jun 15 19:18
maxstirner I dont understand much about that.. isnt there a foss virtualisation box? Jun 15 19:18
schestowitz <RogerBacon>: see this new article: http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/sof… ( Novell: Virtualization’s nothing to fear ) Jun 15 19:19
schestowitz Yes, <maxstirner>, there is, but Microsoft nicked Xen and it now sort of snubs all by Novell. It also wants to prebundle to ‘compete’ with VMWate, using others like Citrix. It builds an anti Red hat and anti-VMWare alliance in a sense. All camps unite. Microsoft recruits even its pet ‘analysts’ to do the FUD. Jun 15 19:20
maxstirner But isnt the virtualisation bit rather simple to implement, i.e. hard to keep hold on market share? Jun 15 19:21
schestowitz There is an issue here. Actually more than one. Jun 15 19:23
schestowitz First of all, Microsoft uses swpatents and restrictions for ‘privileged’ (reward and punishment) access and secondly, it relies on careless IT people who will just use whatever comes with Windows Server. Jun 15 19:24
RogerBacon thx for the link schestowitz Jun 15 19:24
schestowitz No problem. Jun 15 19:24
maxstirner schestowitz doesnt this just mean you get several OS-instances per box, as server OS is rather efficient for a standard intel box? Jun 15 19:25
maxstirner i see.. Jun 15 19:25
schestowitz Yes, but here is another issue. Jun 15 19:25
maxstirner “the advent of virtualization means companies that have traditionally limited licensing policies on software may have to change that.” Jun 15 19:25
maxstirner didnt MS even liberate the number of virtualised instances per license for ten minutes at some stage? Jun 15 19:25
schestowitz I vividly recall that shortly after he had signed the deal, Hovsepian said that SUSE will run _UNDER_ Windows, i.e. they want to require datacentres to buy Windows. As in… pay for something always, get a free O/S _only if you need something extra_. Hovsepian is a vassal of Ballmer. Jun 15 19:26
maxstirner I find people virtualising linux UNDER windows rather counterintuitive :D Jun 15 19:27
maxstirner Even the other way round to run photoshop or whatever seems a bit odd Jun 15 19:28
schestowitz I don’t know about limiting by time, but they used Vista editions to play the discrimination game before antitrust forced them to revert back to older days. Microsoft then pretended it did this out of good will, having lies about ‘security reasons’. Jun 15 19:28
maxstirner I just recall some news that one could have an unlimited number of isntances per license of MS Jun 15 19:29
maxstirner then they retracted it Jun 15 19:29
schestowitz Precisely. Wait until people blame SLES for poor uptime. Later on they’ll blame WS08, which by the way, according to Microsoft’s puppet at Yankee Group (Laura DiDio) has far worse uptime than WS03. Jun 15 19:29
RogerBacon any source for that claim ? Jun 15 19:30
RogerBacon im interested to see that article :P Jun 15 19:30
schestowitz Which one? Which claim I mean? Jun 15 19:30
maxstirner schestowitz, the uptime probably :D Jun 15 19:30
RogerBacon yep Jun 15 19:31
schestowitz Well, WS08 is Vista+tweaks, so it figures. Windows 7apourware (AKA ME3) will be the same thing — more like a Vista Service pack with the Vista name buried for good. I’ll fetch the article. Jun 15 19:31
schestowitz Linux on the server sees reliability gains ( http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/software/0,39… ). Also see this new one for laughs: http://www.computerworld.com/action/shar… Jun 15 19:33
maxstirner end of bloatware is nigh. buying into a linux distro and leveraging their supposed IP really best strategy from MS perspective at this point Jun 15 19:33
schestowitz They sell XP for $18 now. I can’t wait until the next quarterly report! Jun 15 19:34
maxstirner they made some announcements of modular win7 and all that, then they changed to modified vista “trying to make it a bit faster with same hardware req as vista” Jun 15 19:34
maxstirner Yeah that shark article is rather funny :D Jun 15 19:34
maxstirner In line with what i was saying re: the suits versus the tech “hippies” as well Jun 15 19:35
schestowitz No, no. They cancelled all of it. Jun 15 19:35
maxstirner they cancelled all of the modular isnt it Jun 15 19:35
schestowitz No modularity, no light kernell, nothing… just promises, compromises, and apologies. Jun 15 19:36
schestowitz Not just “hippies”. When all else (“hippies” stereotype) fails, resort to “zealots”. Jun 15 19:37
RogerBacon too bad im using asp.net :( Jun 15 19:37
maxstirner “fanboi”? Jun 15 19:37
schestowitz I heard they teach children that stuff. My brother was taught (*ahem* trained) that at school. Jun 15 19:37
schestowitz I read earlier today about the rise of anti-Linux sites. Jun 15 19:38
schestowitz Dan Lyons spread another slur: freetards. He’s the guy who always predicated (shills) in Forbes that SCO would win. Jun 15 19:38
maxstirner The it’s free so it can’t be good instinct kicks in as well of course. the indoctrination worked.. Jun 15 19:39
RogerBacon SCO :/ Jun 15 19:39
maxstirner If theyre fighting you at the blogosphere level its desperate times Jun 15 19:40
schestowitz Well… Jun 15 19:40
maxstirner I work with lots of documents so I followed the MSOXML stuff intently. The number of shills was rather impressive Jun 15 19:40
schestowitz I think we discussed this before you came back to IRC today. Let me find it. Jun 15 19:40
schestowitz 17:14 <schestowitz> OBS: demonisation in the press…  http://blogs.smh.com.au/mash… “Mac zealots,” it says. Always mind these words. Religious propaganda term. Jun 15 19:41
maxstirner I would guess (as commented on your site) that they just make all employees spend say 50% of their time blogging/commenting Jun 15 19:41
maxstirner i heard mac zealots before and they are rather vocal group (with a growing market share as well) Jun 15 19:42
maxstirner i do find people like that mindless, boring consumer types mostly i got to say Jun 15 19:42
schestowitz Later on in the morning I found another blogger who called us zealots for rejecting Microsoft codecs. Homer refuted in his blog. Jun 15 19:42
maxstirner when someone annoys me at a party with their iphone or ipod or whatever i usually run away Jun 15 19:42
maxstirner wmv is just shite :D Jun 15 19:42
schestowitz Earlier on I corresponded with Sam Varghese (the iTWire journalist who wrote about this incident). Jun 15 19:43
maxstirner they pay a silly, silly, silly margin on the hardware for their macs just to have a pretty version of BSD Jun 15 19:43
maxstirner I like his work Jun 15 19:43
schestowitz OLPC stuff too? Jun 15 19:44
maxstirner schestowitz, sorry dont follow, he wrote about the olpc? Jun 15 19:44
schestowitz The Waugh vendetta tends to look bad. Jun 15 19:44
schestowitz He has taken a piss out of the project for many months (last time yesterday) Jun 15 19:45
schestowitz The same goes for Beranger (Radu) Jun 15 19:45
maxstirner I see the article now…. Jun 15 19:48
maxstirner I have to say i do feel critical about the olpc effort in some senses. I don’t feel its appropriate technology.. Jun 15 19:49
schestowitz It’s like a chorus: One [x] per [y] Child. He runs a series. Always slapped in the reader’s rating, although that can be gamed easily. Jun 15 19:49
schestowitz That’s partly because the market changed and the project lost momentum (both things related). The unit was supposed to cost $95 and have huge meshes at time when a cheap laptop cost $500. Jun 15 19:49
maxstirner it did break down the laptop margins nicely, that’s why we’re seeing the pricing revolution in the “netbook” range now Jun 15 19:50
schestowitz Intel sort of liaised with Asus and did ClassMate (even sold it for a loss) to take the wind out of OLPC (=Fedora, AMD) sails. Jun 15 19:50
maxstirner yes, they tried to overtake it on the right.. and di Jun 15 19:51
maxstirner d Jun 15 19:51
schestowitz I have it quite well documented in BN with many references I’ve collected since 2006, I think. Microsoft too sabotaged it since day 1, along with Intel. PaulO/BillG axis they call it. They are friends. Jun 15 19:52
maxstirner It didnt really work. It’s a difficult topic Jun 15 19:52
maxstirner I think a lot of the issues with development aid and post-colonial interference mechanisms comes into it Jun 15 19:53
schestowitz Yes, for sure. Altruism is with Mary Lou and some others who left. You know, she almost died working so hard for the project, but Beranger criticised her for getting a patent and starting a spinoff. Jun 15 19:54
maxstirner There’s lots of idealism around, but you end up dealing with some of the most corrupt elites in the world. Case in point Nigeria and the “craving for windows”. Education minister prince so-and-so sure seems to loooooove windows. i just don’t know why. Jun 15 19:54
maxstirner ironically some of the work may live on through the GPL/sugar interface Jun 15 19:55
maxstirner gotta go address RL issues ;).. Jun 15 19:56
*maxstirner has quit (“Leaving”) Jun 15 19:56
*maxstirner (n=maxstirn@201.17.255.253) has joined #boycottnovell Jun 15 20:35
schestowitz Just before you left I was poised to say that Nigeria is also the nation where Microsoft bribed an official last year ($400,000) to have a Mandriva agreement retracted. Jun 15 20:48
maxstirner officially? :D it’s a rather sad state of affairs really.. the poorest nations have the worst distribution of wealth.. hence the banana republic effect Jun 15 20:49
schestowitz Well, the media forgot about it but I never have (I keep bringing that up again). Mandriva’s folks should be applauded for keeping an eye on this. Microsoft did damage control by renaming this ‘marketing help’. It’s a perfect lie that they try all the time and then get caught. Jun 15 20:51
maxstirner is that the one where the guy wrote an open letter? Jun 15 20:51
maxstirner (project leader) Jun 15 20:51
schestowitz CEO you mean? Open letter to Steve Ballmer. There were followups. Mandriva won at the end. The official refused to give his name. Jun 15 20:52
maxstirner this is typical for large corporations. german law prohibits bribery of foreign officials for instance, and siemens was found to have a policy of paying 10% (later 5%) in “consultancy payments” to “consultants” who were somehow able to influence results of public tender Jun 15 20:53
maxstirner this for massive electricity generators in middle east mostly Jun 15 20:53
maxstirner one shouldnt be surprised ;) Jun 15 20:53
maxstirner i read the letter back then.. via lxer prob Jun 15 20:53
schestowitz Siemans was caught doing lots of that. Wait… Jun 15 20:53
maxstirner I think its the rule rather than the exception. Scandals are just glimpses of the underlying reality in this sphere… Jun 15 20:54
schestowitz http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqu… ( Siemens stained by multimillion bribery scandal ) Jun 15 20:54
schestowitz http://www.heise.de/engli… ( Bribery scandal: Siemens fined 201 million euros ) Jun 15 20:54
schestowitz http://www.channelregister.co.uk/20… ( MPs rap BBC over Siemens deal ) Jun 15 20:55
ed_ ahoj! Jun 15 20:55
ed_ i works for them both Jun 15 20:55
schestowitz Traditionally it’s an MS shop, but they adopt the GNU now. Jun 15 20:55
maxstirner Its actually due to their listing on the US stock market that they got fined first, they appear to have all these inconvenient accountability rules Jun 15 20:55
ed_ http://www.flickr.com/photos/73272… Jun 15 20:55
schestowitz http://www.heise.de/english/news… ( Siemens to invest in MontaVista ) Jun 15 20:56
schestowitz http://www.linuxdevices.com/ne… ( Siemens IP-STB designs run Linux, do HDTV, DVB-T ) Jun 15 20:56
schestowitz http://www.theregister.co.uk/2… ( Fujitsu Siemens Plans goes [Linux] PC for the over 50s ) Jun 15 20:56
schestowitz http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles… ( Siemens switches from Unix to Linux to run critical SAP systems ) Jun 15 20:56
schestowitz http://finchannel.com/index.php?option=com_con… ( Siemens Develops PC-based Profinet IO Software Controller for Linux Systems ) Jun 15 20:56
maxstirner I did see the link on your link collection, would be stupid not to! Jun 15 20:56
schestowitz http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=2489 ( Siemens gets serious about open source ) Jun 15 20:57
schestowitz <maxstirner>: true about it being a glimpse. The same goes for data leaks, breaches and theft. Jun 15 20:57
ed_ the bbc use a lot of SunOS. but iplayer is mainly linux servers… well, it’s entirely linux. it’s a siemens venture that the bbc use Jun 15 20:57
maxstirner but their corporate policy is just a corporate policy.. like the MSOXML/ISO action Jun 15 20:57
schestowitz Gartner (Microsoft pals) confirmed this recently. Jun 15 20:58
schestowitz The BBC uses OpenSUSE in-house. Jun 15 20:58
ed_ some Jun 15 20:58
maxstirner the bbc vids actually work for me now. initially they had some absurd format Jun 15 20:58
ed_ the bbc web servers are sunos Jun 15 20:58
ed_ things that make up the web farm Jun 15 20:58
ed_ the cgi-perl stuff is another matter Jun 15 20:59
schestowitz The BBC is hopeless on the media front. A former Microsoft manager now runs the division. Jun 15 20:59
schestowitz Digital media that is. Jun 15 20:59
ed_ that would be red bee Jun 15 20:59
maxstirner oh dear :D Jun 15 20:59
schestowitz Erik Huggers. Was there in EU antitrust for Microsoft. Jun 15 20:59
ed_ its not so much like that Jun 15 20:59
ed_ the chap who did the iplayer r&d isn’t so closed formats Jun 15 21:00
schestowitz ed_, how so? Jun 15 21:00
ed_ because he wants to move away from the current system Jun 15 21:00
schestowitz I’m not sure if that was Ashley Highfield. Jun 15 21:00
ed_ iplayer 2.0 is about to launch Jun 15 21:00
ed_ no, same first initial though Jun 15 21:00
schestowitz For Linux? :-D :-D Jun 15 21:00
ed_ one week after the initial launch Jun 15 21:00
schestowitz They’ll support Tamaguchi before they support the #1 rival of their media partner Microsoft. Jun 15 21:01
ed_ so i’ve been told Jun 15 21:01
ed_ its not just about linux Jun 15 21:01
maxstirner tamagochi hehehehe Jun 15 21:01
ed_ the iphone was a huge headache Jun 15 21:01
ed_ my colleagues have helped do a lot of stuff to try and identify legit iphone clients Jun 15 21:01
schestowitz Why don’t they support BSD and Linux? Jun 15 21:01
ed_ well, redux does :-) Jun 15 21:02
schestowitz Neelie Kroes could take them to the chamber for some probing. Jun 15 21:02
schestowitz I hear they have vicious penguins down there. With feathers… for tickling. Jun 15 21:02
maxstirner :D Jun 15 21:02
ed_ no body expects the rack Jun 15 21:03
ed_ ‘show them the rack’ Jun 15 21:03
schestowitz No, seriously, complaints were filed. Same with BECTA. The UK Gov is in cahoots, so people must turn to the EC. Jun 15 21:03
ed_ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imag… Jun 15 21:03
schestowitz If it runs Windows, it’s a wreck, not a rack Jun 15 21:03
schestowitz The BBC was dismissive. Jun 15 21:04
ed_ i was thinking of the spanish inquisition scene with the freezer rack Jun 15 21:04
schestowitz SHeley may have been kicked out for aggravating Linux users and BBC News ignored the protests. Jun 15 21:04
ed_ yeah, but it’s not all as sinister as it appears. the server infrastructure is all unix based Jun 15 21:04
ed_ its usually just due to the streaming stuff. Jun 15 21:05
schestowitz Why the resistance to change? Another Newham? Or might it be because the BBC is still GNUphobix? Jun 15 21:05
ed_ its because of license fees Jun 15 21:05
ed_ as far as i know Jun 15 21:05
ed_ we shouldn’t be paying internet back bone fees for USA and RU to see content Jun 15 21:06
schestowitz They make promises though… empty ones. Jun 15 21:06
ed_ well, siemens might have to pay that, since we look after the bbc tech Jun 15 21:06
schestowitz Yes, but if they want to restrict access they can still deliver something for GNU/Linux. Jun 15 21:06
schestowitz Even *sudders* proprietary with DRM. Jun 15 21:07
ed_ i don’t have any problems with iplayer content from here Jun 15 21:07
ed_ the RAM stuff yeah Jun 15 21:07
schestowitz How’s the BBC-Siemans scandal coming along, I wonder. It was a fiasco at the time. Jun 15 21:07
ed_ its all about to change anyways Jun 15 21:07
ed_ what scandal? Jun 15 21:07
ed_ didn’t show up on my radar Jun 15 21:08
schestowitz Siemens (don’t mind the typos):http://www.channelregi… Jun 15 21:08
ed_ not really that surprising Jun 15 21:09
ed_ given that 80% of IT contracts are 50% short of their promisses Jun 15 21:10
schestowitz I have not read it for a year, so I can’t recall the gory details. There was another oopise with Skype, IIRC. The BBC will see budgets reduced. Confidence was lost, AFAICT. Jun 15 21:10
schestowitz BECTA, the NHS, and the BBC compete for incompetence of the year. Any year. Jun 15 21:11
ed_ life is full of missery in the IT world Jun 15 21:11
schestowitz Yes, hard profession. Most stressful too for programmers. Jun 15 21:11
ed_ and windows jockeys Jun 15 21:11
schestowitz Being a ‘box booter’ is no joy. Jun 15 21:11
ed_ well, he who clicks the most wins Jun 15 21:12
schestowitz When I did interviews with Google I realised that the jobs I could get there is just scripting or monitoring server. And that’s no joy! It’s processing, not thinking. Jun 15 21:12
schestowitz He who drolls the most too. Jun 15 21:13
ed_ if you want thinking then work in r&d, but it’s not the best paid Jun 15 21:13
schestowitz Google is more than happy with its own ‘precious’ idea I think, but they also approached me (twice) for a software engineering job. Then again, the search/ad duo is all they really have that’s useful. The rest if brand-driven. I reckon also that just like IBM, Novell and Microsoft they’ll increasingly shift to the east. Jun 15 21:14
schestowitz Job assurance in software engineering is poor, especially long-term. Jun 15 21:15
ed_ yeah that’s when the job turns from inventive to scriptable process Jun 15 21:16
schestowitz I suppose we have gone a tad off-topic, but come to think of Novell again. I’ll tell you what I know. Hundreds of Novell jobs were moved to India with many more to come. Google now complains about the US workforce just like Microsoft. I reckon they want Visas. Jun 15 21:16
maxstirner the pampered western workers as noam chomsky puts it Jun 15 21:18
ed_ i do remember the whole novel outsourcing thing. but to be honest, there’s no point, the jobs are not that great when they are easily out sourced, the basis being that the language communication over head has to be minimal in order to make a profit out of it Jun 15 21:18
maxstirner they do speak english in india Jun 15 21:19
maxstirner btw :D Jun 15 21:19
ed_ some Jun 15 21:19
schestowitz <maxstirner> : “‘knowledge’ workers” Jun 15 21:19
ed_ in a electronic translator style Jun 15 21:19
schestowitz Nice work for exploiters like those on the 99th floor running Nike. Jun 15 21:19
schestowitz *word Jun 15 21:20
maxstirner i remember they made one of the first digital phonebooks in germany by having it copied manually in india in 92. i guess prices have increased since then. Jun 15 21:20
schestowitz GPL documentation violation in China… tube map… seen recently. Jun 15 21:21
maxstirner if china doesnt care about copyright, how would they understand copyleft? :D Jun 15 21:21
schestowitz That’s the problem for FOSS there. BTW, this made me *LOL*: http://www.fsdaily.com/Commun… Jun 15 21:21
maxstirner i see :D Jun 15 21:23
maxstirner i dont do mobiles anyway Jun 15 21:23
schestowitz Me neither. Did you ever. I quit in 20033. Jun 15 21:24
maxstirner i had them at uni 98-02, but i always had the cheapest pay as yougo brick which usually staid home Jun 15 21:24
maxstirner i have a borrowed one here for basic communications Jun 15 21:24
maxstirner i sometimes carry it on the drinking night out to coordinate locations Jun 15 21:25
schestowitz There’s also the health implications, I suppose and believe. Jun 15 21:25
maxstirner since everybody sits in front of box all day theres no point otherwise… Jun 15 21:25
maxstirner i always used to have headset thingie, my usage really is minimal now Jun 15 21:26
maxstirner i do believe its wrong.. i even worry about my wireless Jun 15 21:26
maxstirner 20th C cancer epidemic for all sorts of reasons though Jun 15 21:26
schestowitz They still try to define heavy/moderate use, as if getting a little heart attack makes one benign. Same with microwaves, which Sweden apparently bans. Jun 15 21:26
maxstirner is that so? sweden most civilised country in eu Jun 15 21:27
maxstirner if it wasnt for the dire weather situation i’d be long gone Jun 15 21:27
schestowitz People want convenience. They sometimes accept radiation for it and broadcast strong signals 3cm off their most valuable organ. Jun 15 21:27
maxstirner :D nicely put.. Jun 15 21:27
schestowitz Thanks. :-) Jun 15 21:27
maxstirner its the plastics as well, its all wrong really Jun 15 21:28
maxstirner i read an interview with some  academic in the US, she runs the only centre for the academic study of cancer prevention Jun 15 21:28
schestowitz What about the plastics? Jun 15 21:28
maxstirner all the research is in treatment etc. Jun 15 21:28
schestowitz Then you have the global warnming deniers equiv. Jun 15 21:29
maxstirner well she said in the interview she doesnt have much money so all she did was build her departmental office Jun 15 21:29
maxstirner without carcinogens Jun 15 21:29
maxstirner major challenge she said Jun 15 21:29
schestowitz Big mobile phone makers and carriers must give the illusion, using some faux ‘studies’ that all is fine and dandy. There’s always some sucker or wishful thinker drawn in. Jun 15 21:29
maxstirner consider that modern consumer society/economy consists of pushing bits of plastic around, its impossible to discuss Jun 15 21:30
schestowitz Prevention vs treatment. I see. Jun 15 21:30
maxstirner treatment highly profitable but super complicated, success is limited Jun 15 21:30
schestowitz Microsoft and Novell too have their share of ‘studies’ and press releases. And zombies like Asay who believe it. Jun 15 21:31
maxstirner preventive cancer research impossible due to the imperatives of industry Jun 15 21:31
schestowitz Open source! hear hear! Novell says it does well, do it must be true!! Hear hear! Jun 15 21:31
maxstirner it took 25 years to establish cancer link with cigarettes against a limited capital interest (small group) Jun 15 21:31
maxstirner mobile phones is very similar Jun 15 21:31
maxstirner this all widely off-topic obviously.. Jun 15 21:31
schestowitz Long-term, just like cigs. We shall live and find out, I guess. Jun 15 21:32
schestowitz Yes, I try to nudge it in the right direction. ;-) Jun 15 21:32
maxstirner someones gonna do the coughing and dying at some stage.. like that marlborough cowboy Jun 15 21:32
schestowitz It’s also offencive in ways to users of cellphones. Jun 15 21:32
maxstirner either youre exagerrating widely or joking ;) Jun 15 21:33
schestowitz No, I was serious. Jun 15 21:33
schestowitz People don’t like to hear such stuff. Jun 15 21:33
maxstirner boycott novell facebook group? Jun 15 21:33
schestowitz Yeterday at the gym a friend of mine got pissed off because I explained to him about all the corruption. Jun 15 21:34
maxstirner yes.. but speculation must be possible Jun 15 21:34
maxstirner what corruption? :D Jun 15 21:34
schestowitz Could do, yes… but Facebook is Microsoft-bound, I think. Jun 15 21:34
maxstirner there was a beautiful case in the uk where the mp paid his son for university “research” in geography Jun 15 21:34
maxstirner i think MS cant afford FB, its as overvalued as google even before the IPO Jun 15 21:34
maxstirner didnt they buy 0.5% valuing it at x billions the other day? Jun 15 21:35
schestowitz Well, the guy is retired now. He’s a biologist (2 PhDs) and he’s aware of the issues in the world, but he doesn’t want to hear about them. I must have depressed him. Jun 15 21:35
maxstirner its really bad when people look at you like youre some crazy evangelist isnt it Jun 15 21:35
maxstirner i regularly get that in my post-catholic surroundings here when i start going on about the advantages of legalised abortion Jun 15 21:36
schestowitz Speaking of which, I recently found out about people ‘buying’ knighthood. Kickbacks of sorts. This shatters the credibility of this system, just like ISO’s (and OSI) Jun 15 21:36
schestowitz Microsoft just put a placeholder on FB to prevent a Google land grab. Jun 15 21:36
maxstirner there were loads of scandals over the years werent there? the party makes some list of recommendations or whatever, and the party needs donations Jun 15 21:37
schestowitz But FB’s founder is a pal (proper) of  Microsoft execs, Ozzie included, IIRC. Jun 15 21:37
maxstirner orkut is poor aesthetically, i wonder why they dont sort it out sometimes Jun 15 21:37
maxstirner didnt he supposedly steal someone else Jun 15 21:37
maxstirner ‘s ideas to make it up? Jun 15 21:37
schestowitz Bill Gates… Si Bill Gates. Seen the queen’s face. Jun 15 21:37
maxstirner Sire! Jun 15 21:38
schestowitz On various occasions when the man commits crime (even recently) Brits from the NG where I post regularly say it should be retracted. He’s a shame to this system. Jun 15 21:38
maxstirner what has he ever done for the uk apart from bleed their balance of trade for royalty payments Jun 15 21:38
maxstirner NG? Jun 15 21:39
schestowitz FB invented *nothing*. Jun 15 21:39
schestowitz That stuff goes back to the previous decade. Hype and balloons. Jun 15 21:39
maxstirner the system is a joke anyway, oldest democracy in world with inbreds doing the legislating Jun 15 21:39
schestowitz As for honours for money, Cambridge is similar. You get precedennce if a parent was there. I learned this when I applied  fora  PhD there. Jun 15 21:40
maxstirner then gates did the africa fund just like henry ford back in the day and suddenly everybody thinks he’s an angel Jun 15 21:40
schestowitz NG=NewsGroup (USENET) Jun 15 21:40
maxstirner what on undergrad as well? Jun 15 21:40
maxstirner i know they got massively disproportional public school intake quota due to social factors in preselection interviews Jun 15 21:41
schestowitz No, not undegrad, I think, because of the way the application form is constructed. It’s like… put you Cam. dynasty here please for *ahem* preferential considerations. Jun 15 21:41
schestowitz Very class-based. Divisional, segregated too. But that seems to have always been the face. Jun 15 21:42
maxstirner biritsh english, the only language where you can tell social class by accent Jun 15 21:42
schestowitz I sometimes wonder (the index aside) if the UK is more corrupt than the US Jun 15 21:42
maxstirner preferential on phd application? Jun 15 21:42
maxstirner it depends on your definition.. Jun 15 21:43
schestowitz And the US is not a high standard. It’s somewhere between Colombia and Spain. Jun 15 21:43
maxstirner when is a society of friendly masons a conspiracy against the general public Jun 15 21:43
schestowitz Re: accent, location too, but the two are not mutually-exclusive Jun 15 21:43
maxstirner adam smith said “two businessmen together = conspiracy against the public” Jun 15 21:44
schestowitz Well… Jun 15 21:44
maxstirner In the uk I’ve seen scandals on the 50K GBP for a minister before Jun 15 21:44
schestowitz I do know about the Freemasons in the US, based on the History Channel. Jun 15 21:44
schestowitz Germany seems connected too. Jun 15 21:44
maxstirner I’m not scared of the freemasons, theyre just another business lobby Jun 15 21:44
schestowitz But going back centuries ago too. Jun 15 21:45
maxstirner I know a knight of the uk chapter actually, aristocratic type Jun 15 21:45
maxstirner I don’t really see any difference between a masonic lodge and the business school alumni group Jun 15 21:45
schestowitz And if I dare go in another direction, BillG’s family is among the Bilderbergers. Jun 15 21:46
maxstirner :D Jun 15 21:46
maxstirner now we’re in alex jones territory! Jun 15 21:46
schestowitz So are Blair (who is said to have become PM thanks to them). And Brown too, I think. RMS called him “Gordon Clown” in last months talk (here in Manchester). Jun 15 21:46
schestowitz Well, well.. Jun 15 21:46
maxstirner scull and bones facebook group at GWB’s uni ;) Jun 15 21:47
schestowitz I haven’t a doubt in my mind that Bill and Tony had more than just tea when they invited one another to each others’ house. Jun 15 21:47
schestowitz I mean, some of it is publicly visible too. Jun 15 21:47
schestowitz Oh no! Not that far, no. Jun 15 21:47
maxstirner I remember when blair met richard murdoch before the 98 election. After that, the murdoch newspaper all magically turned into labour party lovers Jun 15 21:48
maxstirner That’s concentrated power at work Jun 15 21:48
schestowitz Some groups are real, with real evidence. Microsoft + Big Media is very substatiable. It’s public knowledge. Jun 15 21:48
maxstirner The foreign ownership rules for UK media were changed afterwards as well… for murdoch to buy some tv channel or whatever Jun 15 21:48
schestowitz Rupert and chaps were accused of AstroTurfing recently. Jun 15 21:49
maxstirner hehehehe Jun 15 21:49
schestowitz In fact, they even employed a hacker. They got busted badly. Jun 15 21:49
maxstirner astroturfing on behalf of whom? Jun 15 21:49
schestowitz I like the fact that this made even Associated Press. It’s no speculation. It’s well documented and I have copies. Jun 15 21:49
maxstirner the first round of wikipedia editing from pentagon ip scandals was superb Jun 15 21:49
schestowitz The AstroTurf was just an accusation. The hackers thing was real. Jun 15 21:50
schestowitz The US military too. Guatemala Bay. They said Casto was a transvestite. Jun 15 21:50
schestowitz *Castro; all libel, of course. Jun 15 21:50
maxstirner funny Jun 15 21:51
maxstirner have you seen road to guantanamo bay? Jun 15 21:51
schestowitz I can find the articles about the evidence (IP routing that they do is traceable) Jun 15 21:51
schestowitz I haven’t no, but I read the Wikipedia article about it some hours ago because of an article about McCain. Jun 15 21:51
maxstirner must-see, is superb, couple of british with pakistani background get caught up in middle of revenge for 911 bombing Jun 15 21:52
*[H]omer has quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Jun 15 21:53
maxstirner you can be assured that the NSA will be logging from mention of title of dvd above onwards ;) Jun 15 21:53
schestowitz Let them. I sometimes add keyword just for some extra noise. Jun 15 21:53
maxstirner So what was that about the hacker? Jun 15 21:54
schestowitz Give me a moment to finish something and I can find it… Jun 15 21:55
schestowitz http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linu… Jun 15 21:57
maxstirner thx Jun 15 21:57
maxstirner “cash hidden in electronic devices mailed from Canada” Jun 15 21:58
schestowitz I didn’t see *that*. But most important to remember: generalise. These are the isolated cases where they get busted. Jun 15 21:59
schestowitz Extrapolate carefully. Jun 15 21:59
maxstirner that’s how i feel about these things, journalism always seems to focus on the little accidental surfacing of the underlying concrete reality Jun 15 22:00
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maxstirner then the “scandal” dies down, and its all “move along.. nothing to be seen here” Jun 15 22:00
schestowitz Yes. Jun 15 22:01
schestowitz One thing I learned is that bringing back old stories (contextually) adds magnitude. Sometimes the old stories are more important than the news. Jun 15 22:02
schestowitz Microsoft relies on rewriting the OOXML Grand Fiasco history at the moment. It lies to the press. Jun 15 22:02
maxstirner They slag you off for your internal cross-linkage.. i can see you’re working hard to establish long-running stories from the little leaks and symptoms Jun 15 22:03
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maxstirner The average reader’s attention span and the typical modus of interacting wth blogs could also be a hindrance to your style Jun 15 22:04
schestowitz It helps me find stuff. I’d link to external stuff directly, but it takes longer (for me) and also risks 404s. Jun 15 22:04
schestowitz I keep blog items short. If people are not sure, they have links to follow. Old-style journalism is backed by no link. It’s like old newspapers. Not even bibliography. Jun 15 22:05
maxstirner I do like it, I just think people aren’t receptive to it.. tv-educated generation isnt fond of clicking back and forth to understand blog ;) Jun 15 22:05
schestowitz Well, some people won’t read the 50=page PDFs in Groklaw either. They just want a fancy sensationalist headline, which she rarely gives. Jun 15 22:06
schestowitz That’s why Groklaw hardly makes FP ijn Digg. Jun 15 22:06
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maxstirner theres something super convoluted about the wiki/Forum system used on groklaw Jun 15 22:07
maxstirner i never manage to navigate it Jun 15 22:07
schestowitz It’s very bad. Very annoying and hard to track your comments too, so I hardly do so. Jun 15 22:08
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schestowitz Geeklog is a big of a dinosaur and Andy Updegrove uses it too. I don’t know the back end. Jun 15 22:09
maxstirner i scroll down from main story, and topic changes, so i clck on the “open all posts” or whatever and doesnt work Jun 15 22:09
maxstirner so although i know shes a champion and hero in the area of FOSS, i dont really browse around there much Jun 15 22:09
schestowitz I think her software becomes a hindrance. Jun 15 22:10
schestowitz There’s hardly even a notion of tags or categories. Jun 15 22:10
maxstirner I don’t know much about that.. I am trying to put together a multi-language page and its a nightmare.. first I used the much-hyped joomla, but will prob go to drupal now Jun 15 22:11
maxstirner I do find the groklaw layout and software preferable to the classical bb-style forums, that design is just tired Jun 15 22:12
schestowitz WordPress is good with unicode and all. I helped resolve a bug related to this some years ago. Jun 15 22:12
maxstirner noooxml has got a lovely modern wiki system styled up as a portal, i enjoyed commenting there Jun 15 22:12
schestowitz I stay out of phpbb for good. It got my personal Web site compromised, along with half a million others. Jun 15 22:13
schestowitz Wikidot. Does anyone outside FFII use it? Jun 15 22:13
maxstirner security flaw? you can always be the unlucky one who’s got the unpatched/undiscovered php issue Jun 15 22:13
maxstirner I’m not sure, I see the noooxml guys offer a (free) poland-based hosting service based on it Jun 15 22:14
schestowitz Yes, but it wasn’t their first such fluke. Others on the shared servers were victims before. Jun 15 22:14
schestowitz The Munchkins had a field trip at my expense. Jun 15 22:14
schestowitz It’s GPLv3ed Jun 15 22:14
schestowitz Among the early adopters in factl Jun 15 22:15
maxstirner wikidot? Jun 15 22:15
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schestowitz .Yes. I wrote about it in BN at the time. Briefly. Jun 15 22:15
schestowitz zoobab from this channel should know, but he’s idle. ping  *zoobab* Jun 15 22:16
maxstirner nice.. how do you feel about the AGPL3 issue? RMS doesnt seem to be too concerned, or he thinks its technically advantageous? Jun 15 22:16
schestowitz Huh? I think he is actually quite concerned. In May 1st I was at his talk where he had arguments about it. Jun 15 22:17
schestowitz Some in the audience were a little hostile. Jun 15 22:17
maxstirner but gpl3 dropped an affero-style clause during drafting didnt it? Jun 15 22:17
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schestowitz I can’t remember/don’t know. I’m sure some were unhappy. Jun 15 22:21
schestowitz I also know that Asay has always whined about that stuff. Google is being a bit pretentious by depriving devs from the right to make AGPL bigger than GPL and thus a de facto new GPL. Jun 15 22:22
maxstirner the googles prob have the biggest vested interest of the lot in the area Jun 15 22:22
maxstirner i’ve read some people whining on and on about how stupid affero are and how the agpl will destroy linux/the world and this and that Jun 15 22:23
schestowitz People speak on behalf of interests. Most people don’t  care about or understand freedom. Jun 15 22:24
maxstirner not realising own collective stake in that greatest of projects :D Jun 15 22:25
maxstirner looking back the windows monopoly will surely be remembered as the dark ages of computing Jun 15 22:25
maxstirner a monopoly so deeply entrenched people werent able to even conceive the existence of alternatives Jun 15 22:26
maxstirner or smell the scandalous nature of the bundled desktop Jun 15 22:26
schestowitz True. I’ve just posted a lump of links to BN. I’m going to bed now. Jun 15 22:26
maxstirner nice to chat, enjoy Jun 15 22:27
schestowitz Be back soon though. Maybe in 7 hours. Jun 15 22:27
maxstirner :) Jun 15 22:27
schestowitz Sleep deprivation. Not good, I know. Jun 15 22:27
maxstirner 7.5 hrs minimum Jun 15 22:27
schestowitz No, 6 max. Jun 15 22:28
maxstirner they say 7 hours will do but thats all slavery Jun 15 22:28
maxstirner You mean medically speaking 6 max?? Or your personal habit Jun 15 22:28
maxstirner anyway.. let you go.. Jun 15 22:30
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-dmwaters-{global notice} Good day folks, We apologize for the stability issues at the moment, it appears that we have a kiddie who wants to play some rather nasty games. I thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode! Jun 15 22:40
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*irc.freenode.net gives channel operator status to [H]omer Jun 15 22:49
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