09.24.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 23rd, 2008 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:47 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

_Doug ASP.NET on Linux .. Sep 23 20:58
_Doug http://dev.mainsoft.com/Default.aspx?tabid=45 Sep 23 20:58
schestowitz cj seems to be somewhere in this territory. Sep 23 20:58
schestowitz Why even compete, eh? Sep 23 20:58
AlbertoP schestowitz, answer please :) Sep 23 20:58
benJIman _Doug: I am quite aware of the state of mono, I do follow its development with interest. Sep 23 20:58
schestowitz Let’s just merge Microsoft and SUSE, right? Marry the two for pargmatism. Sep 23 20:58
AlbertoP schestowitz, a real answer, not fud Sep 23 20:58
AlbertoP schestowitz, is it wrong to use the right tool to do a job? Sep 23 20:59
schestowitz Because it’s all about tools. Forget the philosophy. Let it rot in the side. Sep 23 20:59
*benJIman wonders when schestowitz will learn to spell pragmatism. Sep 23 20:59
_Doug benJIman: Personally I would try and keep up with the latest distros. Like I have Windows and Suse and Ubuntu at work .. Sep 23 20:59
schestowitz AlbertoP: andwer what/ Sep 23 20:59
schestowitz AlbertoP: answer what? Sep 23 20:59
AlbertoP schestowitz, is it wrong to use the right tool to do a job? Sep 23 20:59
benJIman _Doug: It is not applicable for my job at the moment. Sep 23 20:59
_Doug And Mandriva and Yoper .. Sep 23 20:59
schestowitz AlbertoP: we’re trying to accomplish something. Sep 23 21:00
_Doug Applicaple, are you a real techie or what ? Sep 23 21:00
schestowitz Had RMS, for example, just used the ‘best tool’ where would SuSE be? Sep 23 21:00
AlbertoP the correct answer is yes or no, though, and you’re skipping the topic Sep 23 21:00
schestowitz Anyhoo.. Sep 23 21:00
twitter It is always wrong to demand that others surrender their freedom to you. Sep 23 21:01
AlbertoP schestowitz, we are discussing of the adoption in real world industrial applications, not in your PC, where of course the situation IS different Sep 23 21:01
twitter That is what’s wrong with non free software. Sep 23 21:01
_Doug benJIman: so it’s MONO on SuSE Linux only … for you that is ? Sep 23 21:01
AlbertoP and yes, an OSS solution would be better, but in the meanwhile, would you prefer a windows only solution? Sep 23 21:01
twitter When you use it, you put yourself at risk for the kind of fuck around M$ dishes out. Sep 23 21:01
schestowitz You make no progress this way. Sep 23 21:01
AlbertoP schestowitz, really? Sep 23 21:01
benJIman _Doug: I’m not sure what you mean by that, most of the development I do in my spare time is in java or suse-specific things like yast. Sep 23 21:02
schestowitz Watch WoW. Wine got it working, so no port… no code. Sep 23 21:02
AlbertoP are you so sure? Sep 23 21:02
schestowitz When you accept something with the flaws, you encourage no change. Sep 23 21:02
AlbertoP could you by chance remember what makes RHEL successful? Sep 23 21:02
AlbertoP and you know, it is considered the industrial standard for Linux… Sep 23 21:02
_Doug so it’s MONO on SuSE Linux only with YaST .. Sep 23 21:02
schestowitz I guess we should also expect USPTO, which is run by shenanigans, to just ‘wake up’ some morning and ‘decide’ ti’s broken. Sep 23 21:02
twitter Freedom makes GNU/Linux successful. Sep 23 21:02
schestowitz Why fight? Problems will fix themselves. Sep 23 21:02
benJIman _Doug: Mono has othing to do with either of those things, what are you talking about? Sep 23 21:02
AlbertoP schestowitz, you’re not answering Sep 23 21:03
AlbertoP just writing the usual sentences Sep 23 21:03
schestowitz AlbertoP: Red Hat gives Free software. Companies put stuff on top of it. Sep 23 21:03
_Doug Have you no curiosity as to what the rest are doing, are you barred frm looking at other distros ? Sep 23 21:03
schestowitz It’s down to the companies to embrace the Red Hat idealogy. Sep 23 21:03
AlbertoP schestowitz, really? Sep 23 21:03
benJIman _Doug: I do follow the other distributions yes, I have several distributions installed in virtual machines. Sep 23 21:03
schestowitz As Whitehurst stressed about 4 months ago, it’s time for corps to start giving back more. Sep 23 21:03
AlbertoP and isn’t RH providing certifications of compatibility to half of the world of linux commercial apps? Sep 23 21:04
AlbertoP nooo Sep 23 21:04
schestowitz Yes. Sep 23 21:04
AlbertoP so I don’t see any difference Sep 23 21:04
schestowitz It does not produce these. Sep 23 21:04
_Doug virtual machines, yea, I know .. save the planet .. whatVM machine are you using ? Sep 23 21:04
AlbertoP ahh right Sep 23 21:04
schestowitz It gives a Free desktop/server Sep 23 21:04
AlbertoP RH didn’t cooperate with IBM, eh no… Sep 23 21:04
benJIman _Doug: Virtualbox. Sep 23 21:04
twitter That’s a nice free one, Benji. Sep 23 21:05
schestowitz It sells a product that’s free. If the customers won’t to bash it with a hammer, splendid! Sep 23 21:05
AlbertoP schestowitz, so we should close all the non-OSS companies? Sep 23 21:05
schestowitz No, you can’t. Sep 23 21:05
twitter They will close themselves. Sep 23 21:05
AlbertoP just because “it is so evil” to make money with software? Sep 23 21:05
schestowitz Ask Stallman for ‘radical’ opinions Sep 23 21:05
AlbertoP twitter, no you’re dreaming :) Sep 23 21:05
twitter Because it is evil to make non free software demands of your users. Sep 23 21:06
schestowitz In reality, you bring change by showing the way or protesting. You don’t shoot. Sep 23 21:06
twitter NDAs are evil. Sep 23 21:06
_Doug benJIman: so get a Linux distro in the door at work, you are a true believe after all – YEA ? Sep 23 21:06
schestowitz Gandhi had no napalm. Sep 23 21:06
cj hmm? Sep 23 21:06
AlbertoP schestowitz, actually the way is shown a lot more effectively from inside, as RH, Novell and other companies are doing Sep 23 21:06
AlbertoP the proof? Sep 23 21:06
schestowitz Og what? Sep 23 21:06
schestowitz Of what? Sep 23 21:06
twitter Novell is going under, what strength do they have to show? Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoP don’t you think MS admitting Linux is a good platform is important? Sep 23 21:07
benJIman _Doug: Sure, when an opportunity presents itself. We do have some RHEL and SLES servers I believe, never seen them though. Sep 23 21:07
schestowitz The point I’m making is that you don’t shoot companies that do blobs unless they shoot you. Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoP twitter, under? Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoP Oo Sep 23 21:07
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_Doug benJIman: can two apps running on two guest Oses communicate with one another, on the one box ? Sep 23 21:07
schestowitz That, for example, is why I hardly protest against Oracle as much as I protest against the Microsoft lobbies that now attack FOSS in the EU Sep 23 21:07
twitter yeah, Albert, running out of money.  So is M$. Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoP twitter, bring numbers please Sep 23 21:07
schestowitz Microsoft actively works to suppress Free software. Sep 23 21:07
AlbertoP schestowitz, what a discovery Sep 23 21:08
schestowitz And here you say that it’s okay to just play nice with .NET and Windows. Sep 23 21:08
benJIman _Doug: I don’t believe so at the moment. The networking is completely broken when running multiple virtualbox machines. If that were a problem for me I’d use something else. Sep 23 21:08
schestowitz Reciprocity or coexistence is better. Sep 23 21:08
twitter No one needs .net or windows. Sep 23 21:08
AlbertoP twitter, lol Sep 23 21:08
twitter it is better to ignore these things. Sep 23 21:08
schestowitz Worked well for IBM, which the FOSS world is ‘cool’ with, despite IBM’s all-proprietary protfolio. Sep 23 21:08
AlbertoP ok…I think I wasted too much time :) Sep 23 21:08
cj benJIman: what’s mono missing for you?  have you run moma on your assemblies? Sep 23 21:09
cj schestowitz: I seem to be somewhere in which territory? Sep 23 21:09
twitter any time Albert. Sep 23 21:09
AlbertoP twitter, I still wait for numbers to prove N is going bankrupt ^^ Sep 23 21:09
benJIman cj: Mostly the (lol, )enterprise things. Sep 23 21:10
twitter Google search BN for it. Sep 23 21:10
twitter If you don’t object to using free software too much .. Sep 23 21:10
schestowitz AlbertoP: worried yet? Sep 23 21:10
cj benJIman: ah… uhm, MS released those under a MS-pl recently, so you can use that implementation Sep 23 21:10
AlbertoP oh no schestowitz Sep 23 21:10
AlbertoP :) Sep 23 21:10
schestowitz Why do you think Novell came to ballmer and Smith? Sep 23 21:10
AlbertoP I can live happy anyway Sep 23 21:10
benJIman cj: Not the application blocks. Sep 23 21:10
schestowitz Just some time after it had visited the bank, maybe for a load? Sep 23 21:10
benJIman cj: Application Server, integration with biztalk, mssql reporting services, and such. Sep 23 21:10
schestowitz lon? Sep 23 21:10
AlbertoP schestowitz, hehe because it’s business? Sep 23 21:10
AlbertoP :P Sep 23 21:10
schestowitz Agh.. loan. Sep 23 21:10
twitter If you don’t need Novell, why serve them? Sep 23 21:11
AlbertoP but right…business is evil ^^ Sep 23 21:11
cj benJIman: ah.  stuff with which I’m not familiar.  have you talked to miguel about it? Sep 23 21:11
AlbertoP twitter, because they work OK? Sep 23 21:11
cj benJIman: or sam? Sep 23 21:11
benJIman cj: The library support and compiler are very good now I agree. Sep 23 21:11
trmanco http://lists.compiz-fusion.org/pipermai… Sep 23 21:11
twitter no, it’s not OK. Sep 23 21:11
_Doug A Linux zealot examines Microsoft Vista .. Sep 23 21:11
_Doug http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensourc… Sep 23 21:11
schestowitz Don’t feed the beast with the hand that beat you. Sep 23 21:11
AlbertoP twitter, oh you think so? Sep 23 21:11
schestowitz By embracing Microsoft’s wares you give them power to go full EEE and ruin their #1 foe. Sep 23 21:12
benJIman cj: Who is sam? Sep 23 21:12
_Doug Miguel, you’re on first names, well ‘Linus’ talks to me :] Sep 23 21:12
AlbertoP twitter, could you explain? Sep 23 21:12
twitter Yes, it is wrong to serve those who actively work against your and other people’s freedom. Sep 23 21:12
schestowitz I don’t speak in exaggerative tone Sep 23 21:12
schestowitz See Microsoft’s SEC filing. Sep 23 21:12
cj benJIman: http://port25.technet.com/archive/… Sep 23 21:12
benJIman _Doug: Miguel is his IRC nick. Sep 23 21:12
twitter I’d like to see that filing, anything interesting in it? Sep 23 21:12
benJIman cj: Ah yes I have heard of him. Sep 23 21:12
schestowitz If they can’t stop or destory FOSS, they must be pushed to ZUne/XBox, i.e. massive losses all the way to bankruptcy. Sep 23 21:12
cj _Doug: heh, yes.  miguel is his nick, and we’re on a first name basis :) Sep 23 21:12
_Doug I know, I was just having a little joke, but I have had an email from Linus, really .. Sep 23 21:13
AlbertoP twitter, my freedom does not depend on Novell and Microsoft Sep 23 21:13
schestowitz twitter: Let me get it Sep 23 21:13
cj _Doug: heh, he never replies to mine! Sep 23 21:13
AlbertoP or do you really believe that? Sep 23 21:13
twitter Novell and M$ are enemies of your freedom.  When you use their software you surrender it to them. Sep 23 21:13
schestowitz http://www. microsoft.com/msft/SEC/default.mspx Sep 23 21:13
_Doug cj: what can I say, you is a ginga’ ! Sep 23 21:13
AlbertoP you should stop reporting sentences written by others and think one minute…because those sentences were said in a context. Out of it, the mean nothing! Sep 23 21:14
cj ginga’? Sep 23 21:14
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schestowitz “A prominent example of open source software is the Linux operating system…To the extent open source software gains increasing market acceptance, sales  of our products may decline, we may have to reduce the prices we charge for  our products, and revenue and operating margins may consequently decline. “ Sep 23 21:14
cj AlbertoP: “M$” is a dead giveaway :) Sep 23 21:14
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AlbertoP cj, hehe…it was saving Novell from bankrupt one minute ago LOL Sep 23 21:14
cj or MS could release the source to its kernel and then we’d have GNU/Windows :) Sep 23 21:15
AlbertoP anyway, I’ve to go Sep 23 21:15
_Doug an ALi G. term for a ‘white boy’ .. Sep 23 21:15
benJIman cj: I find their arguments much more convincing when they use names like “Sweaty Ballmer” too. Sep 23 21:15
schestowitz SweatyB Sep 23 21:15
cj benJIman: indeed.  it inspires… trust! Sep 23 21:15
schestowitz Steart warping names. :-) It’s not Sweaty Ballmer. Never been like that. Sep 23 21:15
_Doug Ali: Is he married to da ginga wiv dee big tits? Sep 23 21:16
_Doug http://www.boreme.com/boreme/fun… Sep 23 21:16
_Doug back in ten .. Sep 23 21:17
schestowitz Bring popcorn. Sep 23 21:17
twitter So, what’s to see in all that ugly SEC stuff served poorly by IIS? Sep 23 21:18
schestowitz As Blankenhorn puts it, numbers that don’t add up. Sep 23 21:18
schestowitz http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2007 Sep 23 21:19
schestowitz “Ironically the $45 billion bet on Yahoo, partly funded by debt, comes just as Microsoft is finally starting to make good on its decade-old promise of earning money beyond Office and Windows.” Sep 23 21:19
schestowitz “Has anyone succeeded in buying-out a sector of the technology industry and making the whole worth more than the sum of its parts?” Sep 23 21:19
schestowitz “But this is going to end as all tragedies must, with tears. Steve Ballmer is getting taken for the biggest ride of his life, and one day he’s going to find himself dumped out of the limo by the side of the road wondering what happened.” Sep 23 21:19
schestowitz And just the other day Microsoft’s board gave an OK to tolerating debt. Sep 23 21:20
schestowitz For those who are new to this: http://web.archive.org/web/20070308032343rn_2/www.seattl… Sep 23 21:21
twitter September 30th is right around the corner.  We will see how they have done but I doubt it will be pretty, given all the buy back talk. Sep 23 21:22
schestowitz October 23rd Sep 23 21:23
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twitter Oh, that’s a little further off. Sep 23 21:24
schestowitz They announced the Webcast over the weekend or on Friday. I doubt they can cook the books so well at this stage. They failed twice in a row already… for the first time in ages. Sep 23 21:24
twitter Microsoft management offers the following guidance for the quarter ending September 30, 2008:                                             Revenue is expected to be in the range of $14.7 billion to $14.9 billion … blah blah blah Sep 23 21:24
schestowitz Well, they buy back stock. Sep 23 21:25
schestowitz They also buy more companies that actually have existing revenue (note: not necessarily profit) Sep 23 21:25
twitter From $60 billion to debt in what, three years?  I can draw a line to where that goes. Sep 23 21:26
schestowitz Microsoft grows itself too much (not integration), so it ends up overweight with too many employees, not much in savings (soon debt). Even what’s-his-name… the RSS guy… he left them after he had seen what a mess it is from inside. Sep 23 21:26
schestowitz I’d have to find that post some time. Sep 23 21:26
schestowitz twitter: and the stock didn’t move, despite the buybacks. Sep 23 21:27
twitter oh my, soon it will fall with the rest of them. Sep 23 21:27
schestowitz t has a plan B (not B for Ballmer) Sep 23 21:28
schestowitz “Intellectual property is the next software.” -Nathan Myhrvold, Microsoft patent troll Sep 23 21:29
schestowitz Full statement here http://www.newsweek.com/id/55777/page/2 . That’s why it’s so important to fight the Novell patent deal and the likes of it. Sep 23 21:29
zoobab I need your help to debug this: Sep 23 21:33
zoobab http://stopsoftwarepatents.org/draft:petition3 Sep 23 21:33
schestowitz OK Sep 23 21:33
schestowitz Content or grammar/spelling? Sep 23 21:34
zoobab content Sep 23 21:35
zoobab I can tell you where it is attacked Sep 23 21:35
zoobab broadiness is hard to explain Sep 23 21:36
zoobab explanation 4 is definitely hard to explain Sep 23 21:36
schestowitz Okay, let me look. I’m locking it. Sep 23 21:37
schestowitz Short setences. Sep 23 21:39
schestowitz Short sentences. Intentional? Sep 23 21:39
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zoobab yes Sep 23 21:40
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schestowitz It’s like a presentation. Sep 23 21:40
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zoobab it is Sep 23 21:40
schestowitz Why notitimise it? Sep 23 21:40
zoobab it is aimed to convince Sep 23 21:40
schestowitz Okay. Sep 23 21:40
zoobab notitimise? Sep 23 21:40
twitter software patents are always broad because software is just a list of instructions. Sep 23 21:40
twitter patenting a list of instructions is patenting a business method. Sep 23 21:41
zoobab yes Sep 23 21:41
twitter or an idea Sep 23 21:41
zoobab it is like patenting “orders” Sep 23 21:41
zoobab patent people will say it is similar to patenting a process Sep 23 21:42
schestowitz notitimise =  not itimise? (typo Sep 23 21:42
twitter patents are supposed to be for inventions, non obvious constructions, not discoveries or methods like putting things in alphabetical order. Sep 23 21:42
schestowitz itemise Sep 23 21:42
schestowitz Eveyrthing is a process. Sep 23 21:43
schestowitz Or a series of thought. Sep 23 21:43
schestowitz Zoobab, I’ll find you a post. Sep 23 21:43
zoobab post? Sep 23 21:43
zoobab I like numbering points Sep 23 21:43
zoobab numbered Sep 23 21:44
schestowitz slated.org’s right to own knowledge : http://slated.org/the_right_to_own_knowledge (it explains it clearly) Sep 23 21:44
zoobab but bullets are fine too Sep 23 21:44
twitter There’s a difference between a physical process and how you order bits around on your computer. Sep 23 21:44
zoobab this is what the Red Dove is about Sep 23 21:47
schestowitz Punch cards… yours is too ‘similar’ to mine. Sep 23 21:50
zoobab :) Sep 23 21:51
_Doug the system is going down ……….. Sep 23 21:52
_Doug ………. Sep 23 21:52
_Doug …. Sep 23 21:52
_Doug .. Sep 23 21:52
_Doug . Sep 23 21:52
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zoobab the patent system is going down …… Sep 23 21:53
schestowitz I don’t understand why you put inventor in scare quotes but not troll. Sep 23 21:53
zoobab ah Sep 23 21:53
schestowitz IAM took the piss out of your (well, sort of) for using that word. Sep 23 21:53
schestowitz I think I suggested “so-called “patent trolls”” Sep 23 21:54
zoobab patent people Sep 23 21:54
schestowitz At least in the first appearance. Sep 23 21:54
schestowitz ‘Collectors’ Sep 23 21:54
schestowitz Some people collect stamps. Sep 23 21:54
schestowitz Some people collect ideas. Sep 23 21:54
schestowitz Some people attack people with guns. Sep 23 21:54
schestowitz Some people attack people with pieces of paper Sep 23 21:54
schestowitz Some people invent a typesetting solution. Sep 23 21:55
schestowitz And some people ‘invest’ a paging key. Sep 23 21:55
schestowitz invent Sep 23 21:55
zoobab Inventors in this context means patent attorneys Sep 23 21:56
schestowitz Yes. Sep 23 21:56
schestowitz I make this typo a lot though. I can’t type inventor. Sep 23 21:57
zoobab can you close your lock? Sep 23 21:57
schestowitz Almost the same thing though. Sep 23 21:57
zoobab Large companies views positively the exclusion of competitors from the market. But they have to face negative effects of software patents, such as litigation costs and damages, potential product removal, and shift of ressources from the R&D (Research&Development) to the P&L (Patents&Litigation) department. Sep 23 21:57
schestowitz Wait, almost done. Sep 23 21:57
zoobab I would replace it by: Sep 23 21:57
schestowitz I get disracted by comments in BN Sep 23 21:57
zoobab Large companies views positively the exclusion of competitors from the market. But they have to face negative effects of software patents, such as litigation costs, damages, royalties, potential product removal, and shift of ressources from the  R&D (Research&Development) to the P&L (Patents&Litigation) department. Sep 23 21:58
schestowitz Ok, I didn’t finish, but you can see the diff. Sep 23 21:58
zoobab BN? Sep 23 21:58
schestowitz I unlocked the page Sep 23 21:58
schestowitz BoycottNovell Sep 23 21:58
schestowitz Lame site name, not my idea… Sep 23 21:58
zoobab I received the tshirts and the stickers today Sep 23 21:59
zoobab the stickers are not that perfect Sep 23 21:59
schestowitz LF gives t-shirts too now. Sep 23 22:00
schestowitz http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS95… Sep 23 22:00
zoobab ” keeps a collective legal defense fund” Sep 23 22:01
schestowitz Fun days of Freedom, eh? Sep 23 22:01
schestowitz They used to call them crazies, not they fight them by corrupting politicians. Sep 23 22:02
schestowitz There’s some more ugly stuff today like ACTA and telecom. I might post some to BN, but it’s OT. Sep 23 22:02
zoobab there is a talk about ACTA tomorrow in the dutch parliament Sep 23 22:03
zoobab I will try to schedule an AT command to dump it Sep 23 22:03
schestowitz Is it not you who coined the term “Soviet Internet”? Sep 23 22:03
zoobab it was me Sep 23 22:03
schestowitz It made the rounds. Sep 23 22:03
zoobab now you have the chinese version Sep 23 22:03
zoobab http://chineseinternet.wikidot.com/ Sep 23 22:03
schestowitz Is it blocked yet? Sep 23 22:03
schestowitz By the Wall? Sep 23 22:04
zoobab the wall is coming Sep 23 22:04
schestowitz take cova! http://www.zonaplayer.com/page/recensioni/scree… Sep 23 22:04
zoobab the wall will be there to protect you from unlawful content Sep 23 22:04
zoobab but I am sure most MEPs will be listed there Sep 23 22:05
zoobab and they will regret it Sep 23 22:05
schestowitz LOL “Sarkozy told us that it was possible to shutdown peer to peer websites. We can prevent those peer2peer websites to be accessible in France. They do it well in China.” Sep 23 22:05
schestowitz Sarko and McCreevy… Sep 23 22:05
zoobab Sarko even wants to ban P2P software Sep 23 22:06
zoobab Jusqu’alors discret sur le sujet, Nicolas Sarkozy est lui aussi entré en piste en se déclarant prêt à « chasser les logiciels » de téléchargement qu’il juge illégaux et à se doter d’outils juridiques pour lutter contre les sites les exploitants. Tout un programme… Pour expliquer sa position, Nicolas Sarkozy évoque une concertation effectuée avec des « représentants » du monde de la musique – en particulier le président d’Universal Fr Sep 23 22:06
schestowitz “They do it well” Sep 23 22:06
schestowitz As in: “they do it bad”… like Ghetto slang. Sep 23 22:06
schestowitz Can p2p ban Sarko in Soviet Russia? Sep 23 22:07
zoobab it depends if they use Trusted Computing Sep 23 22:07
zoobab :-) Sep 23 22:07
zoobab but for sure the Soviet Internet made them mad Sep 23 22:07
schestowitz http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080207… Sep 23 22:08
schestowitz “RIAA boss: Move copyright filtering from ISPs to users’ PCs” Sep 23 22:08
zoobab you can listen to the audio recordings of IMCO, it is fun Sep 23 22:08
schestowitz Thank goodness for GNU/Linux. That’s what control is abouit. Sep 23 22:08
zoobab some MEPs wanted to make this kind of spyware mandatory in Internet users PCs Sep 23 22:08
zoobab installing such soft is more efficient Sep 23 22:08
schestowitz In Germany it is, no? Sep 23 22:09
zoobab installing such soft is more efficient then on the ISP alone Sep 23 22:09
zoobab they tried Sep 23 22:09
schestowitz Austria too seem to have had ‘people’ petition for it. Spyware and back doors… as standard. Sep 23 22:09
zoobab the Federal Trjan Sep 23 22:09
schestowitz Because of “terrorism” and “think about the children”… Sep 23 22:09
schestowitz This one in the news today: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/23/mal… Sep 23 22:09
schestowitz Jail for two years! “He’s one of three “dissidents” arrested in what the opposition called “a sign of panic by the embattled administration of Abdullah Badawi”. The trio of detainees is made up by blogger Syed Azidi Syed Aziz and Chinese-language journalist Tan Hoon Cheng.” Sep 23 22:10
schestowitz In Russia it’s the police that ‘took down’ a blogger 3 weeks ago. Beware the MS ‘police’ (BSA). Sep 23 22:11
zoobab Pedo-pron is being used by the content mafia: Sep 23 22:11
schestowitz Yes, I know. Sep 23 22:11
schestowitz http://antitrust.slated.org/media-defender/index.html Sep 23 22:11
zoobab Pedopornography, for Sep 23 22:11
zoobab instance, will be allowed (no restriction on end user) and only the Sep 23 22:11
zoobab judicial judge after a while would be authorized to prosecute the end Sep 23 22:11
zoobab user.  TRAUTMANN oral amendment is only replicating the same consequences. Sep 23 22:11
zoobab http://www.odebi.org/new2/?p=489&langswitch_lang=en Sep 23 22:12
zoobab You have to see this video: Sep 23 22:12
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zoobab http://netzpolitik.org/2008/live-… Sep 23 22:13
zoobab 13:13 Sep 23 22:14
zoobab Toubon is too much Sep 23 22:14
zoobab I was on the back of the room Sep 23 22:14
zoobab laughing for 15 minutes non-stop Sep 23 22:14
zoobab I was unable to stop Sep 23 22:14
schestowitz German Sep 23 22:15
schestowitz You speak German? Sep 23 22:15
zoobab nein Sep 23 22:15
AlbertoP schestowitz, Geeko could translate for you ^_^ Sep 23 22:15
schestowitz Is this the right vid? Sep 23 22:15
zoobab but I understand it a bit with my dutch Sep 23 22:15
*AlbertoP hopes Geeko is known :P Sep 23 22:16
schestowitz Gecko? Sep 23 22:16
schestowitz Lizards? Sep 23 22:16
AlbertoP Geeko is the suse mascotte Sep 23 22:17
AlbertoP the chameleon :) Sep 23 22:17
AlbertoP and remember…it’s the chameleon who eat the butterfly, not the opposite ;-) Sep 23 22:19
schestowitz What about Steevo? Sep 23 22:19
schestowitz It eats everything. Did you see that tongue? Sep 23 22:19
AlbertoP hum? Ballmer? Sep 23 22:19
AlbertoP you found the wrong guy, if you expect I throw shit at MS as a whole :) Sep 23 22:20
*trmanco has quit (“I just hit the close button :)”) Sep 23 22:20
AlbertoP I disagree with a lot of what they do, but that’s another story Sep 23 22:20
schestowitz It’s the easiest place from which to gain market. Sep 23 22:21
schestowitz For Novell too. Sep 23 22:21
schestowitz Although Novell does not seem intrested. Sep 23 22:21
schestowitz It hooked up with Microsoft to eat some Red hat instead. Sep 23 22:21
AlbertoP hum? Sep 23 22:21
AlbertoP which space? Sep 23 22:21
schestowitz So now Geeko and Steevo are both pulling the tongue at the few that care about Free software. Sep 23 22:22
AlbertoP sorry, place Sep 23 22:22
schestowitz SUSE is just a Windows application now. Hyper-vell, remember? Sep 23 22:23
schestowitz “we agreed that SUSE would run as a guest under Windows…” (or something along those lines) Sep 23 22:23
zoobab Redhat just bought the company behind KVM for a lot of dollars Sep 23 22:24
AlbertoP nah, Novell is just being pragmatic (which means “base on facts”). They know MS is a reality, that a lot of people depend on it, and they try to work with it.It has nothing to do with being against OSS. Sep 23 22:24
schestowitz Financially pragmatic maybe… better become a slave than die. Sep 23 22:24
AlbertoP schestowitz, the agreement includes also the opposite direction: windows running as a guest on SLE Sep 23 22:25
schestowitz Wasn’t that the same with Corel at the time. And Robbins (Gentoo) Sep 23 22:25
AlbertoP Novell has been selling XEN drivers for quite a bit ¬¬ Sep 23 22:25
zoobab “Free software developers see their software becoming non-free with the collection of royalties.” Sep 23 22:25
schestowitz AlbertoP: not quite. Sep 23 22:25
schestowitz Watch the arrangement. Sep 23 22:25
zoobab going to sleep Sep 23 22:26
schestowitz zoobab: that too. Sep 23 22:26
schestowitz gn Sep 23 22:26
AlbertoP schestowitz, hum? Sep 23 22:26
AlbertoP link? Sep 23 22:26
schestowitz Later. Sep 23 22:26
AlbertoP ah right ^^ Sep 23 22:26
schestowitz Let me finish in USENET. Sep 23 22:26
schestowitz Pleas.e Sep 23 22:26
AlbertoP ok Sep 23 22:26
zoobab I have to wake up a bit ealry tomorrow Sep 23 22:27
AlbertoP however the link is here: http://www.novell.com/products/vmdriverpack/ Sep 23 22:29
AlbertoP and SLE offers the driver :P Sep 23 22:29
*mib_n2u95d55 (i=40a06f9a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-df0e6085bc3c51bb) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 23 22:30
zoobab http://www.odebi.org/new2/?p=489&langswitch_lang=en Sep 23 22:30
schestowitz AlbertoP: it’s about how they serve ‘solutions’ Sep 23 22:31
schestowitz I’ll find the links later. Sep 23 22:31
schestowitz See the PR about Dell OEMing Hyper-Vell in the mean time. Sep 23 22:32
AlbertoP schestowitz, don’t you think it’s the customer to decide that? Sep 23 22:32
schestowitz No. Sep 23 22:32
AlbertoP Oo Sep 23 22:32
schestowitz Like a customer can buy a PC with FreeDOS. Sep 23 22:32
schestowitz People are laxy Sep 23 22:32
AlbertoP schestowitz, we are speaking of big companies as customers. Sep 23 22:33
schestowitz Yes, we do. Sep 23 22:33
schestowitz They can happily use Red Hat. Sep 23 22:33
AlbertoP hehe to pay vmware? Sep 23 22:33
schestowitz No, to have Smith and the pals knocking on the door dem anding royalties “like Novell” Sep 23 22:34
AlbertoP and to virtualize windows on it anyway, because they need it, useless to say the contrary Sep 23 22:34
schestowitz “People that use Red Hat, at least with respect to our intellectual property, in a sense have an obligation to compensate us.”– Steve Ballmer Sep 23 22:34
schestowitz Citing Novell as an example Sep 23 22:34
schestowitz .Novell stepped up… blah blah… Sep 23 22:34
AlbertoP hehe that’s something I don’t care about Sep 23 22:35
schestowitz “We believe every Linux customer basically has an undisclosed balance-sheet liability.” Sep 23 22:35
schestowitz That’s right, you don’t want to. Sep 23 22:35
schestowitz Tell this to people who suffer racketeering for using GNU/Linux. That happend already. Sep 23 22:35
AlbertoP the facts say managing suse is a lot easier than managing RH, that’s what count…the rest is philosophy, which should be kept out when you evaluate a product Sep 23 22:35
schestowitz The media doesn’t cover it as if there’s some DNA in all those rackets. Sep 23 22:35
AlbertoP racketeering? Sep 23 22:35
AlbertoP proofs? Sep 23 22:36
schestowitz AlbertoP: That Novell doesn’t give a s* abouy freedom you needn’t remind me. Sep 23 22:36
schestowitz Search BN. I have many example. Sep 23 22:36
AlbertoP schestowitz, hehe well, you have a bit of confusion. I’m not novell ^^ Sep 23 22:36
schestowitz Microsoft says so. Sep 23 22:36
schestowitz Said. Sep 23 22:36
schestowitz I know,but you’re her defending them. Sep 23 22:36
AlbertoP I just try to explain you how a decision is taken when you select a software in a productive environment. You look at costs and quality Sep 23 22:37
schestowitz Novell sells solutions and advice. Sep 23 22:37
schestowitz Hovsepsian said what he said about his ‘arrangement’ with ballmer. Sep 23 22:38
AlbertoP again, that’s business Sep 23 22:38
AlbertoP and frankly N is making a lot more for linux with all the support to projects than a lot of other people Sep 23 22:39
schestowitz How do you know Sep 23 22:39
AlbertoP how? Sep 23 22:39
schestowitz Yes. Sep 23 22:39
schestowitz Do you know that the SEC paid Novell a visit? Sep 23 22:40
AlbertoP count the full time N employee working on open apps Sep 23 22:40
schestowitz Do you consider infusions from Microsoft ‘business’? Sep 23 22:40
*mib_n2u95d55 has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Sep 23 22:40
schestowitz I do… as much as I consider the US giving Iraq/Iran weapons to kill one another. Sep 23 22:40
AlbertoP schestowitz, do you know the meaning of what you write? because you use EMPTY words Sep 23 22:40
AlbertoP infusions? Sep 23 22:40
AlbertoP in what? Sep 23 22:40
schestowitz Microsoft is fuelling Red Hat/Novell Linux wars… where only Mcirosoft IP is the winner. Sep 23 22:40
schestowitz IBM tried that too. Sep 23 22:41
AlbertoP hum and do you see this huge N/RH war somewhere? Sep 23 22:41
schestowitz But for other reasons… to prevent price-fixing AFAIK Sep 23 22:41
schestowitz Ye Sep 23 22:41
schestowitz Yes Sep 23 22:41
schestowitz Not just me. Sep 23 22:41
AlbertoP it’s market competition, but behind the scenes they cooperate to the same OSS projects ^^ Sep 23 22:41
schestowitz See GL, SJVN… anywhere that know the stuff. Sep 23 22:41
schestowitz *knows Sep 23 22:41
schestowitz Fine, but you must understand how FOSS fits into this. Sep 23 22:42
schestowitz Novell is not FOSS Sep 23 22:42
AlbertoP ah right, no…. Sep 23 22:42
schestowitz Novell is a proprietary s/w Micfrosoft partner… with a portion of FOSS… small portion… like BMC Sep 23 22:42
AlbertoP how many kde developers are paid by Novell? Sep 23 22:42
AlbertoP how many gnome developers? Sep 23 22:42
schestowitz B add examples… Sep 23 22:42
schestowitz Doesn’t matter. Sep 23 22:43
AlbertoP ah right Sep 23 22:43
AlbertoP LOL Sep 23 22:43
schestowitz Novell needs them. Sep 23 22:43
AlbertoP needs? Sep 23 22:43
schestowitz It uses the code Sep 23 22:43
schestowitz It doesn’t mean the trimuph of freedom is a goal. Sep 23 22:43
AlbertoP Novell could use the code without giving one cent back, for your information Sep 23 22:43
schestowitz The FSFG too stresses that corps don’t seek  a goal other than money. Sep 23 22:43
AlbertoP they could kill opensuse, ignore the community, just being really “closed” Sep 23 22:43
schestowitz That’s a conflicting and antithetical route. Sep 23 22:43
schestowitz WOn’t work, AlbertoP Sep 23 22:44
AlbertoP are you sure? Sep 23 22:44
schestowitz Yes, companies want $$. They must, ’cause of investors. Sep 23 22:44
schestowitz Novell is different because of legacy. Sep 23 22:44
AlbertoP and so? Sep 23 22:45
schestowitz brb Sep 23 22:45
AlbertoP isn’t RH profitable? Sep 23 22:45
*schestowitz back Sep 23 22:47
schestowitz I don’t know or care. Sep 23 22:47
AlbertoP well, it is the first and only company being profitable thanks to linux ^^ Sep 23 22:48
*AlbertoP has quit (“Sto andando via”) Sep 23 22:48
*ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 23 23:36
*AlbertoP (n=AlbertoP@pdpc/supporter/active/AlbertoP) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 23 23:51
*AlbertoP appears again Sep 23 23:51
twitter IBM, Google and many other honest companies are also making lots of money with free software. Sep 23 23:57
MinceR google is hardly honest Sep 23 23:58
MinceR they do some good things and some evil things Sep 23 23:58
twitter says the Mincer? Sep 23 23:58
MinceR yes, i said so Sep 23 23:58
twitter like what, besides cooperating with China? Sep 23 23:58
twitter Shaking up M$? Sep 23 23:59
twitter Ha ha. Sep 23 23:59
twitter Sweaty B is going to throw a chair. Sep 23 23:59
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