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10.29.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 28th, 2008 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:15 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz More Microsoft cronyism… Jesper Lund Stocholm … http://www.adjb.net/post/More-Stand… Oct 28 19:44
twitter Markets are up for some reason and so is M$ but they lag the broader markets, a whole percentage point behind Dow average. Oct 28 19:50
twitter up 8.7% wacky. Oct 28 19:50
twitter Novell up 13.6%, insane.  http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:NOVL Oct 28 19:51
schestowitz ‘Freedom’ of Sp33ch…Home Office acts to kick out Iceland’s hate preachers < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10… > Oct 28 19:51
twitter Novell’s up is on light trading. Oct 28 19:52
schestowitz It’ll probably fall later. It’s based on no particular rejuvenation, isn’t it? Oct 28 19:53
twitter less than 500,000 shares.  Bill Gates wipes with less than that each morning. Oct 28 19:53
schestowitz Tell that to Iceland.. or Austria whose market fell like 60%. Oct 28 19:53
schestowitz Up 15% now (NOVL), but it sank yesterday. Oct 28 19:54
twitter Yeah, I know a couple of people in Iceland.  They are in for some rough IMF times. Oct 28 19:54
schestowitz IT credit crunch comes home to roost < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1… > Oct 28 19:55
twitter Still, $2.5 million is trivial money to people like Bill Gates and people with hundreds of millions to buy back stock and paint pictures. Oct 28 19:55
schestowitz Sad thing is, some people perceive all this as being anarchic, but it’s not quite so; some people look away and don’t want to understand a new reality. Oct 28 19:55
schestowitz This is merely the dawn of big changes to people’s lifestyle. It’s not a pass fad. This can last for over a decade and become the new status quo. And it’s all due to greed and further divide between rich and poor (the rich hardly mind… they just lose luxury money in Wall Street and the poor people pay to keep corrupt banks alive) Oct 28 19:57
twitter ” Since August 2005, 230 people have been excluded from entering the UK on suspicion of being a threat to national security or fostering extremism, including 79 preachers of hate.” http://press.homeoffice.gov.uk/press-r… Oct 28 20:00
twitter “create a presumption in favour of exclusion in respect of all those who have engaged in fostering, encouraging or spreading extremism and hatred” blacklists. Oct 28 20:01
schestowitz “Just weeks after the UK government used the 2001 Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act to seize all of the IOUs in British branches of Icelandic banks, tough-talking Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has made it clear that Britain will no longer be a safe haven for terror preachers from Iceland. Or indeed from Norway or Liechtenstein.” Oct 28 20:01
schestowitz Look how they expand the laws of “terrorism” to things like “protest” Oct 28 20:02
twitter “preacher of hate” can mean anything.  Thoughtcrime. Oct 28 20:02
schestowitz The UK ruined Iceland (allegedly) and if they dare to protest, they are labeled terrorists. AMAZING! (although I don’t know the finer details) Oct 28 20:02
schestowitz There’s some regular commenter in BN, “Josh Bell”, who seems to know Novell a little too intimately. He doesn’t seem to work for them, though. Oct 28 20:04
schestowitz Once again this “Yardena Arar” figure (never seen before) is tossing a Windows ad/article into IDG: http://www.pcworld.com/article/152895… This is suspicious. Smells like a placement… Oct 28 20:10
twitter I’m thick.  Don’t see what MJF sees as a “credit crunch” Oct 28 20:10
schestowitz Or “recession” Oct 28 20:11
schestowitz They never use the D word. Oct 28 20:11
MinceR Doom! Oct 28 20:11
schestowitz Slowdown… Oct 28 20:11
schestowitz Deflation… no… Oct 28 20:12
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twitter I understand the bit about people not buying, just don’t understand the IBM focus. Oct 28 20:12
twitter and I don’t see anything weird about the IBM numbers. Oct 28 20:12
schestowitz Credit crunch *LOL* Here is the Uk they consider zeroing the interest rates while raising price of everything. So you are taxed in the sense that you lose money without doing anything. Savings too might erode. Oct 28 20:13
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schestowitz IBM has heavy buybacks going, just like MSFT, NOVL, and RHT Oct 28 20:13
schestowitz ORCL too Oct 28 20:13
schestowitz Microsoft: “look at out stock. We’re not falling (but don’t look at our bank account and pending loans)” Oct 28 20:14
twitter fiat currency is a tax, ask 1960′s Greenspan. Oct 28 20:15
schestowitz Stock market = legal casino. Too many rules can be (and are) bent. I’ve never realise what sense the loopholes made. Buybcks, buying short, pump and dump using SPAM, etc. Oct 28 20:15
schestowitz It’s all exploding now. Oct 28 20:16
schestowitz *selling short Oct 28 20:16
schestowitz Hey Politicians! Stop wasting my money < http://www.itwire.com/content/… > Oct 28 20:19
twitter Good grief, Slashdot has rolled out the M$ Red Carpet today. Oct 28 20:25
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schestowitz Get your free copy of CrossOver (available only TODAY): http://down.codeweavers.com/ Oct 28 20:25
schestowitz The site is down because loads of people grab a copy. Oct 28 20:25
MinceR :) Oct 28 20:25
*MinceR grabbed his already Oct 28 20:25
schestowitz twitter: why wouldn’t Slashdot. Lots of new products from its sponsor, Microsoft (PDC). Oct 28 20:26
twitter They have advertised, favorably, three chunks of vaporware.  http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/10… http://tech.slashdot.org/article… http://it.slashdot.org/articl… Oct 28 20:27
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schestowitz *LOL* http://beranger.org/index.php?page=… (also a funny remark at the end) Oct 28 20:27
schestowitz twitter: I don’t want to see. Oct 28 20:28
trmanco just updated my kernel Oct 28 20:28
trmanco flawlessly Oct 28 20:28
schestowitz I found Slashdot too /ANNOYING/. to read, so I dropped it. Why get upset when there are better things to read? :-) Oct 28 20:28
MinceR what’s your replacement for /.? Oct 28 20:28
PetoKraus trmanco: same here Oct 28 20:29
trmanco :-) Oct 28 20:29
PetoKraus got rid of that CFQ scheduler Oct 28 20:29
trmanco PetoKraus, what distro? Oct 28 20:29
PetoKraus and maybe it’s placebo, but it works better Oct 28 20:29
PetoKraus gentoo Oct 28 20:29
trmanco cool Oct 28 20:29
MinceR i’ve updated mine yesterday Oct 28 20:29
PetoKraus you know –omg-optimize and –funroll-funloops are amazing compilation flags, yielding you those o.0004% of overall snappineess i need Oct 28 20:30
MinceR though i’ve only compiled the patched kernel module for my usb link cable today Oct 28 20:30
PetoKraus :P Oct 28 20:30
MinceR don’t forget –vomit-frame-counter Oct 28 20:30
PetoKraus :) actually, that’s the one i actually use Oct 28 20:30
PetoKraus did i actually say two times actually? Oct 28 20:30
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schestowitz Why does  Henry Kingman keep sucking up to XAML and .NET?  http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/… Oct 28 20:33
schestowitz He did the interview with Novell&Miguel Oct 28 20:34
trmanco http://mail.fsfeurope.org/piperm… Oct 28 20:34
trmanco “Finally I did it. Oct 28 20:34
trmanco I decided to point to an higher goal asking Dell to produce a free Oct 28 20:34
trmanco software laptop. Oct 28 20:34
trmanco Oct 28 20:34
MinceR well, he can ask Oct 28 20:35
schestowitz Maybe there’s a chance, but hardware is a challenge. Oct 28 20:35
schestowitz LAC Now Shipping gNewSense 2.0 Systems (1 May 2008) : http://laclinux.com/gnu/News#20080501.1 Oct 28 20:36
_Doug SCO intercompany payables == 1,178,377 Oct 28 20:36
_Doug http://www.groklaw.net/article… Oct 28 20:36
schestowitz Microsoft pushed for this:  http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008… Oct 28 20:37
trmanco http://www.xfce.org/documentation/changelogs/4.4.3 Oct 28 20:38
twitter If Dell cant’s move hardware makers to software freedom, who can? Oct 28 20:38
MinceR system76? Oct 28 20:38
schestowitz Good post from GL Oct 28 20:39
twitter As the $100 GNU/Linux laptops roll out of China, Dell will play ball or go under. Oct 28 20:39
MinceR either option would be acceptable Oct 28 20:40
schestowitz trmanco: XFce is a maintenance release in this case. Oct 28 20:41
trmanco yes Oct 28 20:41
trmanco but it is a sort of *new* release Oct 28 20:42
schestowitz Vista 7 will sink some more shops. Oct 28 20:42
trmanco always worth mentioning :-) Oct 28 20:42
twitter What, channel stuffing again? Oct 28 20:42
twitter What’s funny about the GL story is how little money SCO has left.  It’s like watching people in the dorms looking under sofas for laundry money. Oct 28 20:44
schestowitz ow it’s confirmed. Linux on all Lenovo laptops? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=new… Oct 28 20:44
twitter cool Oct 28 20:44
schestowitz Microsoft is trying to match this only with promises.. or fast boot. it said that Vista successor would have this… lied, as usua Oct 28 20:44
schestowitz Dell already uses SplashTop. Oct 28 20:44
twitter if they would only fix the keyboards by getting rid of those obnoxious windows keys Oct 28 20:45
schestowitz Several months ago Phoronix suggested, based on rumours, that H-P goes down this route as well Oct 28 20:45
MinceR dell also pays the patent racket, don’t they? Oct 28 20:45
schestowitz Yes. Oct 28 20:45
twitter It’s the usual slog.  When the competition is obviously better, talk about they next version. Oct 28 20:45
MinceR so it isn’t really such a good example — or a forerunner of free software-based computers. Oct 28 20:45
schestowitz twitter: SUPER key? They just need to change the logo to something generic Oct 28 20:45
schestowitz The context menu key is OK because it’s no vendor logo/sign. Oct 28 20:46
twitter I hate those keys. too many keys on the bottom row makes it easier to miss the one you are looking for. Oct 28 20:46
MinceR i like them Oct 28 20:46
MinceR the super key is useful for global hotkeys Oct 28 20:46
MinceR no app expects to be able to use it Oct 28 20:47
schestowitz My keyboard has multimedia keys. Mandriva picked them out… out of the box. special s/w needs to be installed to enable this in WIndows (not that I tried). Oct 28 20:47
twitter I use ctrl and alt keys a lot, missing them would drive me nuts Oct 28 20:47
MinceR my keyboard has multimedia keys but my kvm switch drops them :/ Oct 28 20:47
schestowitz The name “super” is bad. These keys should be named something like “shame”. Calling Window SUPER won’t help.. Oct 28 20:48
schestowitz *Windows Oct 28 20:48
MinceR lol Oct 28 20:48
MinceR afaik it’s from the pre-windows times actually Oct 28 20:48
MinceR like meta Oct 28 20:48
schestowitz Yes. Oct 28 20:48
MinceR so it isn’t really a comment on windows Oct 28 20:49
twitter I’m super, thanks for asking, all things considered, I must say … I love that movie. Oct 28 20:49
twitter The menu keys and windows keys get in the way. Oct 28 20:49
MinceR the south park movie? Oct 28 20:49
twitter yes Oct 28 20:50
twitter it was funny Oct 28 20:50
MinceR i love it too Oct 28 20:50
schestowitz http://podcasts.linux-foundation.org/… Oct 28 20:51
twitter I’m going outside.  Keep an eye on the soft and novell. Oct 28 20:51
schestowitz 180MB Oct 28 20:51
schestowitz LF and Ogg. I was like, you know, WTF? LF and Ogg? Oct 28 20:51
*MinceR keeps an eye on the big soft, its current right hand and the little soft. Oct 28 20:52
MinceR (well, perhaps “right hand” isn’t correct — not many people cut theirs off regularly…) Oct 28 20:52
jose later Oct 28 20:53
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MinceR s/soft/’soft/g Oct 28 20:53
_Doug ‘Latitude ON uses “a dedicated low-voltage sub-processor and OS that can enable multi-day battery life” for the Windows Vista notebooks’ Oct 28 21:03
_Doug http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2560585344.html Oct 28 21:03
MinceR ARM? Oct 28 21:03
MinceR (and linux, i presume) Oct 28 21:03
_Doug why not dispense with Vista, altogether .. Oct 28 21:04
_Doug “Dell will equip a new crop of enterprise notebooks with little embedded Linux systems” Oct 28 21:04
schestowitz One step at a time. Oct 28 21:04
_Doug Linux helps quick start Vista .. Oct 28 21:05
_Doug corect headline ? Oct 28 21:05
schestowitz No. Oct 28 21:07
schestowitz Linux starts quickly while slow Vista loads 700MB of garbage onto RAM. Oct 28 21:08
_Doug http://www.geek.com/articles/news/microsof… Oct 28 21:09
_Doug ‘We would like your feedback on a new concept .. Fast computer boots aren’t a new concept and some systems are already in development or exist. Examples include SplashTop, Phoenix HyperSpace, and Dell’s Latitude ON’ Oct 28 21:09
schestowitz Latitude ON= MontaVista thing. Oct 28 21:11
schestowitz Phoenix reported Microsoft (antitrust) for trying to use the EULA pretty much illegally. Microsoft still plays like a 800lb gorilla… but it’s impotent. Oct 28 21:11
_Doug what about recovering from hybernate ? Oct 28 21:11
schestowitz I thought about that too. I don’t know Oct 28 21:13
_Doug Linux boots in 0.69 seconds .. Oct 28 21:13
_Doug http://linuxdevices.com/news/… Oct 28 21:13
_Doug ‘the initialization process is then completed in the background in under two seconds.’ Oct 28 21:14
schestowitz Maureen O’Gara is attacking the Linux Foundation, sort of. Oct 28 21:15
schestowitz I alerted about this… it’s like the OSDL thing. Oct 28 21:15
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schestowitz Embrace and extend… http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/new… (  Microsoft Works on PHP and Open Source  ) Oct 28 21:28
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PetoKraus MinceR: who knows. Oct 28 21:41
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MinceR apparently not even sourceforge, inc. cares about web standards anymore Oct 28 21:41
MinceR hm, maybe schestowitz knows Oct 28 21:41
MinceR 224446 < MinceR> is there a browser where /.’s tagging system actually works? Oct 28 21:41
MinceR 224454 < MinceR> including the supposed menu Oct 28 21:41
MinceR (damn netsplits) Oct 28 21:41
schestowitz Didn’t anyone else get cut off from FreeNode? Oct 28 21:42
PetoKraus you only. wrong time, wrong server Oct 28 21:42
PetoKraus you should see #gentoo Oct 28 21:42
PetoKraus at about 300 discs Oct 28 21:42
schestowitz :-) Oct 28 21:42
MinceR /.’s tag autocompletion should also die in hell Oct 28 21:42
PetoKraus /. should also die in hell Oct 28 21:42
schestowitz MinceR: SF adopted Drupal. Oct 28 21:42
PetoKraus there, fixed. Oct 28 21:42
MinceR even if i type the word fully it just goes its own way and inserts something it wants instead Oct 28 21:42
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schestowitz I found out earlier today. Oct 28 21:42
MinceR PetoKraus: replacement? Oct 28 21:42
schestowitz At least for blog anyway. Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz *blogs Oct 28 21:43
MinceR kuro5hin isn’t funny enough Oct 28 21:43
MinceR digg is full of apple fagboys Oct 28 21:43
PetoKraus MinceR: yeah. though i only read the summaries mostly Oct 28 21:43
MinceR the /. hater sites are devoid of content Oct 28 21:43
PetoKraus thanks to liferea Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz Just in case: Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz <schestowitz> Maureen O’Gara is attacking the Linux Foundation, sort of. Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz <schestowitz> I alerted about this… it’s like the OSDL thing. Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz * _Doug has quit (“ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092417]“) Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz <schestowitz> Embrace and extend… http://www.linux-magazine.com/onl… (  Microsoft Works on PHP and Open Source  ) Oct 28 21:43
MinceR php is crap enough without m$ meddling with it Oct 28 21:43
schestowitz Groklaw News Picks are good. Oct 28 21:44
schestowitz Better than /. It has some dull legal stuff though. Oct 28 21:44
MinceR groklaw only covers a limited amount of topics though Oct 28 21:44
_Doug ‘Intellectual Ventures: A massive patent pyramid scheme?’ Oct 28 21:44
_Doug http://news.cnet.com/8301-1350… Oct 28 21:44
schestowitz Yes, I’ve sent proposals since 2006. It’s still a good signal/noise ratio… Oct 28 21:45
schestowitz _Doug: old one, IIRC Oct 28 21:45
schestowitz (without looking) Oct 28 21:45
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jose just popped in for this http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20081028/… Oct 28 21:48
schestowitz _Doug: let me find something. Oct 28 21:48
schestowitz Google has a new option for deep linking. Oct 28 21:48
schestowitz jose: yes, big news. Blech. Oct 28 21:48
_Doug ‘Date set for internet ‘obscene’ publications trial .. Track this topic   Print story Man in court over ‘Girls Aloud’ story’ Oct 28 21:49
_Doug http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/… Oct 28 21:49
schestowitz http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/index… “The calibration effort goes beyond what TRIPS was thought to be about – namely, standardising IP, Gervais said. Developing nations now say they want national policies to close the gap between IP law and innovation. The challenge is not to implement TRIPS mechanically in order to stay out of trouble but as part of a national innovation strategy.” Oct 28 21:50
_Doug ‘innovation strategy’ typing up piles of legalize and then waiting for someone to actually build the thing .. Oct 28 21:52
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect Oct 28 21:52
schestowitz Nathan Myhrvold goes mad: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9G8gQ5uh6jY#t=2m15s Oct 28 21:53
_Doug of course none of this ‘innovation strategy’ is designed to encourage innovation, is designed to create lock-in by the incumbents .. Oct 28 21:57
schestowitz Yes, but they beatify it to themselves (the trolls) Oct 28 21:58
_Doug ‘invest in invention’ Oct 28 21:58
_Doug where do the ideas come from ? Oct 28 21:58
schestowitz Bill Gates is also a troll at heart… his and Nathan are both into this thing. Oct 28 21:58
schestowitz Ideas are an aggregation of other people’s ideas. Oct 28 21:58
schestowitz You take things you learn, put them in series and expand upon them. Oct 28 21:59
schestowitz “Standing on the shoulders of giants” Oct 28 21:59
_Doug ‘pre seed pre-venture capitol’ Oct 28 21:59
_Doug ‘we file 400 patents a year’ Oct 28 22:00
PetoKraus http://teddziuba.com/2008/09/a-… Oct 28 22:00
_Doug how is filing patents innovative ? Oct 28 22:00
PetoKraus in INNOVA~1 sense of the word. Oct 28 22:00
schestowitz _Doug: it’s a known problem. Oct 28 22:01
schestowitz If the system sobers up a bit (it’s still in a freefall), then trolling will get worse and people will demand change. Oct 28 22:02
_Doug ‘advice for entrepunuers’ Oct 28 22:02
_Doug ‘if you really knew all the things then you know now it would be tough to do go do it..’ Oct 28 22:04
_Doug translation: if IV was around at the beginning of the PC revolution, it would have been killed at birth .. Oct 28 22:04
_Doug it = the WinTELL.IBM PC Oct 28 22:05
_Doug cause the truely realize that real competition would leave then dead in the water .. Oct 28 22:05
schestowitz Yes. Oct 28 22:05
schestowitz But Microsoft only wanted patents when it needed walls. Oct 28 22:06
schestowitz Not when it needed to break them down (IBM et al) Oct 28 22:06
schestowitz Remember that memo from 2991 Oct 28 22:06
schestowitz *1191 Oct 28 22:06
schestowitz Blech. 1991 Oct 28 22:06
_Doug exactly, patents are to protect the iuncumbents from competition Oct 28 22:06
schestowitz That’s what a patent is. Oct 28 22:06
_Doug incumbents Oct 28 22:06
schestowitz Copyrights are to protect a producer in other ways. Oct 28 22:06
schestowitz Patents are insane because they pertain to knowledge or thought. Oct 28 22:07
_Doug innovation and patents don’t go in the same sentence. Oct 28 22:07
schestowitz To infringe copyrights you must MEMORISE things. Oct 28 22:07
_Doug in fact there is no motivation to ‘invent’ anything until your patent runs out. Oct 28 22:07
schestowitz I can recognise a face, but that does not mean I can render it with pen and paper based on memory. Oct 28 22:07
schestowitz Do you have MYHRVOL~1′s E-mail? Oct 28 22:08
_Doug haa .. Oct 28 22:08
schestowitz Open letter: “sod off, let developers work” Oct 28 22:08
schestowitz Does he even program? Oct 28 22:08
schestowitz I don’t think he develops anything. Oct 28 22:08
schestowitz Math/physics chap, IIRC. Oct 28 22:08
schestowitz Their job in the theoretical side is a pen&paper thing, toexaggerate a bit Oct 28 22:09
_Doug in fact if the current patent regime was in place a decade ago .. none of the current ‘innovators’ would be in business .. Oct 28 22:09
schestowitz It’s natural for some such people never to consider implementors. Oct 28 22:09
schestowitz Some say we need deregulation Oct 28 22:09
schestowitz Other say we need to decommission competition, using patents. Oct 28 22:10
_Doug gtg .. Oct 28 22:10
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jose see what you did? Oct 28 22:11
jose i too have puked all over the keyboard and will leave soon Oct 28 22:11
jose seeing ballmer sweat is preferable to seeing that other guy sell poison so smoothly Oct 28 22:11
schestowitz Me? :-) Oct 28 22:11
schestowitz Myhrvold? Oct 28 22:11
schestowitz Mr.void? Oct 28 22:12
jose giant slayer Oct 28 22:12
jose mr. void.. i like that Oct 28 22:12
schestowitz Nothing to sell Oct 28 22:12
schestowitz Just imaginary property and threats Oct 28 22:12
jose stand on shoulders of giants and then squash them Oct 28 22:12
schestowitz He actually threatened Cisco and Verizon, IIRC, for hundreds of millions in ransom Oct 28 22:12
jose whatever happened to good old competition Oct 28 22:13
schestowitz jose: Ask Bill and SteveB Oct 28 22:13
jose foss has to win over minds and hearts.. to attack patents. Oct 28 22:13
schestowitz Ballmer insists he doesn’t know what monopoly means/ Oct 28 22:13
schestowitz But he calls Google a monopoly Oct 28 22:13
schestowitz jose: not many FOSS sites cover swpatents. Oct 28 22:13
schestowitz That’s where BN is quite unique. There’s a lot going on in terms of laws being ignored/changed to harm FOSS> Oct 28 22:14
jose i’m going to go soon Oct 28 22:14
schestowitz Well, I can’t stop you. :-) Oct 28 22:14
jose you tempt, but i have to hold my ground Oct 28 22:14
schestowitz Alex Hudson enter idle mode Oct 28 22:15
schestowitz So you needn’t confront him in the comments. Oct 28 22:15
schestowitz *entered Oct 28 22:15
jose that wasn’t fun Oct 28 22:15
schestowitz No, very cyclic Oct 28 22:15
schestowitz But you made excellent point. Oct 28 22:15
schestowitz But you made excellent points Oct 28 22:15
schestowitz Most readers never comment. Oct 28 22:16
schestowitz 1 comment per 1000 pageviews, or something like that.. Oct 28 22:16
jose this patent business makes me puke Oct 28 22:16
schestowitz Yes Oct 28 22:17
schestowitz Who let this monster in??? Oct 28 22:17
jose it’s so unjust.. the positive today is that swpats aren’t enforced against foss really Oct 28 22:17
schestowitz You think that making better software means winning, no? Oct 28 22:17
schestowitz Then comes Microsoft, trying to use bundling to beat a much better VMware (like Netscape). Oct 28 22:17
jose but it creates issues and tensions and obstacles to business Oct 28 22:17
schestowitz Same with Real Networks, but that’s older news. Oct 28 22:17
schestowitz And now there’s this ‘patent cloud’ hanging since May 2007. Microsoft inssists that Red Hat customer owe them money. Oct 28 22:18
schestowitz Nice, eh? Oct 28 22:18
schestowitz Buy Red Hat, be afraid. SCO 2.0. Oct 28 22:18
schestowitz jose: they are actually enforced. See Firestar and NetApp (versus ZFS) Oct 28 22:19
schestowitz Also Acacia Oct 28 22:19
jose yes, a bit.. Oct 28 22:19
jose in fact, i meant that the free stuff is still downloadable but that’s not good enough Oct 28 22:19
jose and work is under way always to stop that free stuff Oct 28 22:19
schestowitz Same with music. Oct 28 22:20
schestowitz There are many parallel to be drawn and lessons to be learned. Oct 28 22:20
jose business is really important. controlling the money stream (even while the “hobbyists” play) is what ms is after Oct 28 22:20
schestowitz RMS and Lessig have a lot in common and they actually reciprocally congratulate one another. Though the FSF has some beef with CC… Oct 28 22:21
schestowitz Yes, let me get a new ref Oct 28 22:21
schestowitz http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/news/m… Oct 28 22:21
schestowitz I could add to this some new videos from YouTube. Some EU-based Microsoft guy on stealing the FOSS show, putting in on Windows. Oct 28 22:21
schestowitz Microsoft can spend $$ to woo developers and have them concede their values…. Windows Server……. open…. open to access…… open developers-’friendly’… just.. open! Oct 28 22:22
schestowitz There’s a whole ‘magic’ show with cartoons and ‘heroes’… http://www.microsoft.com/opensou… Oct 28 22:23
jose i hope the foss community sees what is going on.. some do some don’t Oct 28 22:23
schestowitz Any type of marketing BS to ruin the foundation of FOSS (Free platform) and shove in some ‘rat holes’ Oct 28 22:24
schestowitz I showed the 452 Group those ‘rat holes’ memos. The response was interesting. Oct 28 22:24
jose roy, let me go. i need to finish something asap (today, this week, ..??), and then i want to get moving on some foss projects Oct 28 22:24
schestowitz OK Oct 28 22:25
jose i’ll listen a bit, but i’m trying to keep quiet Oct 28 22:25
jose what was the response? Oct 28 22:25
jose sorry, but i got curious Oct 28 22:25
jose ok, never mind.. i’ll eventually find out Oct 28 22:26
*GoblinRFD (n=tim@78-86-75-104.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell Oct 28 22:26
*jose has quit (“Leaving”) Oct 28 22:27
GoblinRFD Hello all. Oct 28 22:28
schestowitz Hey, GoblinRFD Oct 28 22:28
GoblinRFD Great series of articles over the last few days! Oct 28 22:28
schestowitz Thanks. I didn’t realise it. Oct 28 22:29
schestowitz The site get enough attention for posts to be worthwhile, so… Oct 28 22:29
schestowitz *gets Oct 28 22:29
GoblinRFD I think you need to make a montage of Steve Ballmer, hes quite a……..something.. Oct 28 22:29
GoblinRFD my personal favourite: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc Oct 28 22:30
schestowitz There are some montages out there. Oct 28 22:31
schestowitz We’ve aired a few, but I need to make oggs. Oct 28 22:31
*trmanco has quit (“I just hit the close button :)”) Oct 28 22:32
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com… Oct 28 22:32
GoblinRFD In your opinion, do you think the EU (and anti-monopoly commission) will stand for these patient actions, in and when MS invokes them? Oct 28 22:32
schestowitz He tries to disguise his craziness by joking about it. Oct 28 22:33
*jose (n=jose@adsl-233-170-93.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell Oct 28 22:33
schestowitz Last week in Brazil he did the DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS thing again. Oct 28 22:33
schestowitz And about 6 months ago in Mix 2008 (IIRC) he did WEB DEVELOPERS WEB DEVELOPERS Web DEVELOPERS… Oct 28 22:33
jose generally.. we have to get as many people to appreciate the things we appreciate. Oct 28 22:34
schestowitz All intended to make it ‘feel’ like monkey dance and all was just humour and intended. Oct 28 22:34
jose numbers make thins easier on everyone Oct 28 22:34
schestowitz The Brazilian TV aired the monkey dance videos, which was funny. Oct 28 22:34
jose to appreciate, you sort of have to walk in shoes Oct 28 22:34
GoblinRFD I personally dont think they have a hope in hell of bringing their patient threats to bear in the UK…. BTW that clip you gave is classic! Oct 28 22:35
schestowitz jose: instill morale in devs’ minds. Oct 28 22:35
schestowitz Microsoft does a lot to demoralise with lies. Oct 28 22:35
MinceR those devs have minds? Oct 28 22:35
jose i assume people are lazy Oct 28 22:35
schestowitz Like “Linux is at less than 1%” Oct 28 22:35
schestowitz Not true Oct 28 22:35
schestowitz ballmer said Linux had 60% in servers (Microsoft has intelligence to do that) Oct 28 22:35
jose yes, the free thing will happen naturally if they see real value in it Oct 28 22:35
jose to see value you have to experience Oct 28 22:35
GoblinRFD agreed. Oct 28 22:36
schestowitz IDC says 13%, but it’s using Microsoft’s def (whitebox preinstalls). it’s all just intended to deceive and be repeated (Big Lie). Oct 28 22:36
schestowitz Some develoepers get wiser than that. Oct 28 22:36
jose we need a better framework and tools to cater to jack/jill user Oct 28 22:36
schestowitz They port applications to GNU/Linux because they see for themselves the demand for it. Oct 28 22:36
jose we need to work consciously to reach out to users with skill X and Y and Z Oct 28 22:36
jose where these aren’t “sw development” Oct 28 22:37
schestowitz Netbooks… Gold Microsoft Partner says 4 times more are returned if running GNU/Linux… false… ASUS debunks it. Oct 28 22:37
schestowitz Germany press says 40% of them run Linux Oct 28 22:37
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Oct 28 22:38
GoblinRFD Yeah, I read that.  I still cant believe in this day and age people think MS has any insight in the future whatsoever.  Let us not forget their insistance on backing the HDdvd format over blueray.  We all know how that turned out. Oct 28 22:38
schestowitz They make nice silos Oct 28 22:40
schestowitz Did you see those GIFs they produce to represent a roadmaps? Oct 28 22:40
schestowitz Marketing. Oct 28 22:40
schestowitz Nice pictures, vapourware, illusion of plan and order. Oct 28 22:40
schestowitz It’s all the silos, GoblinRFD. yes. the silos! Shiny!!11 Oct 28 22:41
GoblinRFD I hope Ive managed to create a new phrase (I havent read it anywhere else) —- MS has its head where Azure is, in the clouds. Oct 28 22:41
GoblinRFD Im going to patent that. Oct 28 22:41
schestowitz MSBBC ads-ticle: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/tec… Oct 28 22:42
schestowitz Poetic patents are possible in the US, I think. Oct 28 22:42
schestowitz It’s still controversial. Oct 28 22:42
jose this kbd is sticky with chunks Oct 28 22:44
*jose has quit (“Leaving”) Oct 28 22:45
GoblinRFD I dont care if its controversial, Ill just do what MS does and threaten people regardless. Oct 28 22:46
schestowitz What with? Oct 28 22:46
schestowitz Oh. Oct 28 22:46
schestowitz The analogy. Oct 28 22:46
schestowitz Or catch phrase rather. Oct 28 22:46
GoblinRFD sorry, its Linux’s fault.  Unlike Windows Im able to do more than one thing at a time, I was distracted by a game on Poker-TH Oct 28 22:47
GoblinRFD thats the reason for the delay. Oct 28 22:47
schestowitz Whines… “And if a lowly journalist is facing these attacks, you can be sure that they are becoming more common everywhere.” < http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3781026/I… > Oct 28 22:49
schestowitz Context to this: http://www.itwire.com/content/vie… Oct 28 22:49
GoblinRFD Yeah, those attacks are the reason why I decided to come to this IRC room and chat.  I think users are more savvy now then MS gives them credit for. Oct 28 22:53
GoblinRFD I am of the attitude that if MS-agents are trying to put down your point of view, you must be in the right. Oct 28 22:53
GoblinRFD Our local computer group, removed openSUSE after Novell became assimilated by the Borg (MS) Oct 28 22:54
GoblinRFD bbl – Dead Set is on.  A five part UK made horror flick about big brother contestants, who whilst on the show are unaware that the world is being overrun by zombies! Great stuff! Oct 28 22:55
schestowitz Yes, I saw some SUSE-owned LUGs the other day. Oct 28 22:58
schestowitz Novell pays them with gifts, I think. Watch this one: LUG has SUSE, Novell and Ken Starks, right (watch picture)?  http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/1… Oct 28 23:02
schestowitz Now watch the link on the side to BoycottNovell (no, I didn’t ask for it or anything). It even says in ALL CAPS “Truth is NOT relative – Boycott Novell” Oct 28 23:03
schestowitz Novell also sponsored a recent KDE conference in Europe, IIRC. They put Geeko and OpenSUSE logos all over the place. :-( Oct 28 23:03
schestowitz http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/10/28/i… (  Internet firms tackle human rights ) Oct 28 23:06
schestowitz True: Internet Companies Pay Lip Service To Human Rights < http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/10/28/i… > Oct 28 23:13
*jose (n=jose@adsl-233-170-93.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell Oct 28 23:23
jose schestowitz, i went to your website.. i’m going to send you an email soon Oct 28 23:24
schestowitz Thanks. Oct 28 23:25
schestowitz s @ Oct 28 23:25
jose what is the name of the main group that defends against patent attacks on FOSS (3 letter acronym) Oct 28 23:54
jose i forget Oct 28 23:54
schestowitz OIN Oct 28 23:54
schestowitz It’s not effective, Oct 28 23:54
schestowitz FFII is better. Oct 28 23:54
jose thanks.. just wanted the name Oct 28 23:55
jose just sent you the email Oct 28 23:59
schestowitz ACK Oct 28 23:59
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