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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 15th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:23 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

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schestowitz Here is my response: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/1… Dec 15 01:03
schestowitz Someone mailed me this: “You might get a kick out of the following story: More Details on Diebold’s Lost Ballots in CA < http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6741 > Apparently, Diebold/Premier has had some flaws in their tabulation software which they’ve known about for years and haven’t fixed.” Dec 15 01:04
schestowitz ” It took a vote integrity group and some open source software they used to verify the vote count in one California country to uncover the problem.  It seems to be a black eye both for proprietary software and for the Help America Vote Act, which was supposed to have a mechanism for uncovering problems such as this.” Dec 15 01:05
macabe As long as the product sells, it’s OK to OOPS after the fact. So they think. Dec 15 01:09
schestowitz The cash  machines are equally bad. Dec 15 01:09
macabe We have SMBs in Rochester that are little B.Gates clones. It’s like they a different breed of humans. Dec 15 01:10
macabe Delphi, the GM parts maker is up to maybe a scandal or two. Dec 15 01:11
macabe Eastman Kodak after ripping off their retirees is not matching 401ks. Dec 15 01:12
macabe It used to be somewhat like Ohio here. A manufacturing center, but most jobs were outsourced and Dec 15 01:14
macabe many are h-1b visa. Dec 15 01:14
twitter the layoff article looks confused.  Here’s Craig Mudie denying layoff on Nov. 21 http://www.thestreet.com/story/10449525/1/mi… Dec 15 01:15
schestowitz macabe: people are taught to imitate ‘idols’ they are shown Dec 15 01:15
twitter It’s funny he said that while the company was firing Razorfish employees Dec 15 01:15
schestowitz Some people copy OJ and geeks like to think that copying Gates is a Good Thing(TM) Dec 15 01:15
schestowitz It’s being ‘sold’ to the public by the press, whoever owns it. Dec 15 01:16
schestowitz twitter: it’s revisionism, sorta Dec 15 01:16
schestowitz http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlLA/layoffs/exclu…” (EXCLUSIVE: Microsoft To Lay Off 1,500 In California; 200 In L.A.) Dec 15 01:16
twitter It’s a bold face lie. Dec 15 01:17
schestowitz This one is odd Dec 15 01:17
schestowitz It’s about Yahoo for all I can  tell Dec 15 01:17
twitter the revisionism, not the confused Yahoo article is a lie Dec 15 01:17
twitter The denial itself suggests they lie to keep their recruiting strong. Dec 15 01:18
schestowitz That can’t be true. Microsoft never lies *rolls eyes* Dec 15 01:18
twitter I can’t imagine M$’s recruiting is strong. Dec 15 01:18
schestowitz Should we write about this? Dec 15 01:18
schestowitz Let’s show evidence of layoffs and then the MS exec denying it all. Dec 15 01:18
schestowitz Good comment there. The phrasing was indeed weird in the Official Denial. Dec 15 01:46
schestowitz He lies without lying. :-) Dec 15 01:46
twitter Added some useful information http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/04/… Dec 15 01:52
twitter too bad people will have to scroll past G. Michaels troll juice to see it. Dec 15 01:52
twitter It would be good if you could replace his bullshit with a link, “troll comment was posted, click here to read” for anyone who’s interested to click. Dec 15 01:54
schestowitz I don’t have software to facilitate this. Dec 15 01:56
twitter Layoff rumors have already hurt M$’s ability to hire:  http://www.city-data.com/forum/seattle-are… Dec 15 02:00
schestowitz That’s what they fear Dec 15 02:00
schestowitz Self-fulfilling prophecies as opposed to hypnosis they do with Gartner et al Dec 15 02:00
twitter It’s right for people to worry about such things after the Vista failure. Dec 15 02:02
schestowitz People are searching MS layoffs.. Dec 15 02:02
schestowitz Search engine referrals so far this month (14 days) in BN: microsoft layoffs353 Dec 15 02:02
schestowitz microsoft layoffs 2008:118 Dec 15 02:03
schestowitz microsoft layoff:61 Dec 15 02:03
schestowitz And so on… Dec 15 02:03
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PetoKraus well Dec 15 02:53
PetoKraus that was fast… i had to install XP on our server Dec 15 02:53
PetoKraus i am going away for christmas and my mate wants to play games Dec 15 02:53
dsmith_ xp on a server? Dec 15 05:58
dsmith_ horrible Dec 15 05:58
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MinceR geekings Dec 15 08:56
schestowitz Moin’ Dec 15 08:57
PetoKraus yeah Dec 15 09:42
schestowitz :-) http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/… Dec 15 11:02
schestowitz Here’s a good bit: “Stallman has devoted the bulk of his life’s energies to political and software activism.[56] Professing to care little for material wealth, he explains that he has “always lived cheaply… like a student, basically. And [he] like[s] that, because it means that money is not telling [him] what to do.”[57] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R… Dec 15 11:19
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/article/155446/jo… “…unemployment at a 14-year high..” Dec 15 11:30
PetoKraus right Dec 15 11:39
PetoKraus see you from slovakia Dec 15 11:39
PetoKraus ;) Dec 15 11:39
schestowitz Have a safe journey. No mustard on the plane. :-) Dec 15 11:41
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schestowitz Oops… “Can KDE 4 compositing effects be slow on the avg(”Joe”) machine? (2) Yes, they can. Sometimes I think that the compositing stuff on Linux is a joke.” http://planet.sabayonlinux… Dec 15 13:01
schestowitz “So, I am now a happy GNOME user. No memory leaks, speed, comfort, stability and integration. Thank you KDE4 for the total disaster.” Sabayon might move to GNOME. Dec 15 13:02
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schestowitz I asked Beranger: “Will you do “strong opinions” and “rants” about Windows? It would be fun for those of us who never touch the thing (like me).” Dec 15 13:31
MinceR did he answer? Dec 15 13:32
schestowitz Not yet? I put it in the comments. Dec 15 13:33
schestowitz *Not yet (not a question) Dec 15 13:33
schestowitz He cause so much damage to GNU/Linux… now we can use him to our advantage when he ‘learns’ (to break) Winodws) Dec 15 13:34
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Omar87 Hi all Dec 15 13:37
schestowitz Hi, Omar87 Dec 15 13:39
schestowitz Oops. http://annoyedfolk.blogspot.com/2… “And the longer such bad information is given out the more it becomes ingrained that that bad information is correct.  And you wonder why I have a dislike for Ubuntu users even though my wife and eldest child uses it.” Dec 15 13:49
schestowitz This is better (http://icehot.wordpress.com/2008/12/… ), but not because of the article. Dec 15 13:54
MinceR that perceived issue with ubuntu or its users has little to do with ubuntu itself — that’s what typical users are like :> Dec 15 14:04
schestowitz Ubuntu used to be the underdog Dec 15 14:05
schestowitz (when I first used it) Dec 15 14:05
schestowitz STUPID MSBBC:  Hackers ‘aid’ Amazon logging scam < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/te… >. People will hopefully write to explain to them what hacker means. Dec 15 14:06
Omar87 Is CISCO becoming a friend of open source? Dec 15 14:09
MinceR well, to me ubuntu has always been “the debian with recent stable packages” and it still is :> Dec 15 14:11
schestowitz Omar87: not really. If it complies, then maybe… Dec 15 14:18
schestowitz I was ‘sold’ Ubuntu (4.10) with the promise of a good Debian. Dec 15 14:19
Omar87 The problem is that System76 isn’t available everywhere. Dec 15 14:25
Omar87 ..not yet at least. Dec 15 14:26
schestowitz Is there no shop in Jordan that sells O/S-free PCs? Dec 15 14:28
Omar87 Excuse me? Dec 15 14:28
schestowitz Some shops sell a PC without an operating systems Dec 15 14:30
schestowitz These systems tend to work well with Linux. Dec 15 14:30
Omar87 Yeah, all of them do. Dec 15 14:30
schestowitz They get tested in advance or components chosen for the purpose. Dec 15 14:30
Omar87 I can ask them not to install anything. ;) Dec 15 14:30
schestowitz Will there be a discount? Dec 15 14:31
Omar87 I’m not sure. Dec 15 14:31
schestowitz The thing is, Microsoft has this bulk licence scam Dec 15 14:31
schestowitz This way they discourage choice Dec 15 14:31
schestowitz They do the same thing in schools/university Dec 15 14:31
schestowitz It’s considered potentially illegal… Intel tried this too… Linpro in Norway successsfully fought against the practice. Dec 15 14:32
Omar87 Because 99.9999999% of the Windows cd’s used here in Jordan are not genuine. Dec 15 14:32
Omar87 They’re stolen. Dec 15 14:33
Omar87 And believe it or not, even Computer Shops rarely use genuine Windows. Dec 15 14:33
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, Terribly sorry for that network burp — appears one of our sponsors decided to reboot the server without warning, affected users in the region of 2,000. We apologise for that mishap and hope you have a nice day! Dec 15 14:34
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schestowitz Microsoft tries changing this now. It needs money because revenues decline. Dec 15 14:36
Omar87 Hehehe. :D Dec 15 14:37
Omar87 Microsoft is a joke man. Dec 15 14:37
Omar87 But what really freaked me out is when my cousin told me this: “There are cases of people … Read Morewho were able to achieve greatness without having to rely on a University (such as Bill Gates, Dell, and the guy who started Facebook, I forgot his name)..” Dec 15 14:44
Omar87 Ooops, here’s the correction: Dec 15 14:45
Omar87 There are cases of people who were able to achieve greatness without having to rely on a University (such as Bill Gates, Dell, and the guy who started Facebook, I forget his name) Dec 15 14:45
schestowitz That’s true. Dec 15 14:47
schestowitz University’s significance is symbolic Dec 15 14:47
Omar87 I know. Dec 15 14:47
schestowitz I think I learned a lot of valuable lessons, but the diplomas are physical evidence of knowledge Dec 15 14:47
Omar87 It is. Dec 15 14:47
schestowitz To some people, many book on many shelves symbolize power Dec 15 14:48
Omar87 Exactly. Dec 15 14:48
schestowitz To another person it’s a big house, a  Ferrari (usually people with a small pecker), or pyramids Dec 15 14:48
Omar87 That’s right. Dec 15 14:48
Omar87 But, the part “such as Bill Gates” makes you think as though Bill Gate is really as much of genius as people imagine him to be. Dec 15 14:50
schestowitz He ruined other people Dec 15 14:51
MinceR he’s a talented con man. Dec 15 14:51
schestowitz Had he finished law schools maybe he would have ethics Dec 15 14:51
MinceR it’s sad that people idolize con men that much, though. Dec 15 14:52
Omar87 That’s true. Dec 15 14:52
schestowitz Anyway, cars are seen by some (they won’t admit this) as an extension to body Dec 15 14:52
schestowitz Books are extensions or one’s mind Dec 15 14:52
schestowitz So some people accompany themselves with shiny gadgets and toys like cars Dec 15 14:52
schestowitz Other people surround themselves with literature. They show you, “LOOK! Look how much I’ve read Dec 15 14:52
Omar87 So other people enrich their minds with knowledge. Dec 15 14:53
Omar87 Some* Dec 15 14:53
schestowitz The mind is cr*p for most things. Dec 15 14:54
schestowitz It’s good at processing, not  registering information Dec 15 14:55
schestowitz Search engines are better at the middle task, which is connecting thought and storage. Dec 15 14:55
Omar87 Then when you read a book, where does all the knowledge you read go? To your heart? Dec 15 14:56
schestowitz A computer is an apparatus for managing knowledge (Internet rather). Cars moves people from place to place more effectively. Similar toots, different levels. Dec 15 14:56
schestowitz The heart is just a loudy pump. Dec 15 14:56
schestowitz *lousy (and loud! :) ) Dec 15 14:56
Omar87 That’s not true, Dec 15 14:56
MinceR it’s a pretty good pump actually Dec 15 14:57
MinceR for instance, it can repair itself Dec 15 14:57
schestowitz Well, it repairs itself. Dec 15 14:57
schestowitz Yes Dec 15 14:57
schestowitz You beat me to it Dec 15 14:57
Omar87 Heart is huge warehouse. Dec 15 14:57
MinceR and it remains operational for longer than most man-made pumps Dec 15 14:57
schestowitz Even with maintenance? Dec 15 14:57
Omar87 Everything you’ve ever been through is stored inside your heart. Dec 15 14:58
schestowitz Omar87: no, I don’t believe in that. Dec 15 14:58
schestowitz We have more knowledge today then we had in the past Dec 15 14:59
schestowitz Anatomy studies and all… Dec 15 14:59
Omar87 Anatomy has failed to explain so many things in the human body. Dec 15 15:03
Omar87 For example, Anatomy failed miserably to determine what a soul is. Dec 15 15:04
MinceR people in general have failed miserably at _defining_ what a soul is. Dec 15 15:04
MinceR so the question couldn’t even be asked of anatomy. Dec 15 15:04
schestowitz LHD to the rescue. :-p Dec 15 15:06
schestowitz *LHC Dec 15 15:06
Omar87 MinceR: That’s right. Dec 15 15:06
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twitter Good morning Dec 15 15:33
twitter The US now has a “national landlord”  http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/bus… Dec 15 15:34
twitter This is welcome relief but hugely impractical and difficult. Dec 15 15:34
twitter It might make more sense to allow the renters to assume payments and gain ownership. Dec 15 15:35
twitter NYT sucks, there are many questions the article raises without answer. Dec 15 15:38
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twitter Here’s a move that makes no sense, http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financial… Dec 15 15:39
twitter Apple’s performance and prospects are better than M$’s Dec 15 15:41
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twitter Apple is in much better shape than M$ thanks to their dominance in music players, cell phones which will continue to do well in a slowdown as will their expensive laptops.  I wonder how the company rates M$. Dec 15 15:42
twitter As others pointed out, Apple has also returned more money for their size than M$. Dec 15 15:42
schestowitz Windows Mobile gets hammered today. Dec 15 15:44
schestowitz http://www.itwire.com/content/… Dec 15 15:44
schestowitz http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/… Dec 15 15:44
twitter Goldman Sacks thinks M$ is a “buy” http://www2.goldmansachs.com/research/disclosure/Cha… Dec 15 15:45
twitter What are those people smoking? Dec 15 15:46
schestowitz Goldman Gates? Dec 15 15:48
twitter Must be.  I’m laughing at the Windoze Moblie Quote:   Microsoft Live Labs Product Manager Alex Daley says  “Most phones out today don’t have accelerated graphics in them The iPhone does… I couldn’t just pick up a Blackberry or a Nokia off the shelf and build Seadragon for it without GPU support.” Dec 15 15:49
twitter I wonder why they don’t make apps for the Asus EEEPC then.  It’s got 3d accel. Dec 15 15:49
schestowitz The same GS that recommends Microsoft all the time, even when it was above $30? Dec 15 15:50
MinceR Goldman Sucks? Dec 15 15:51
twitter Boosters in October 2007, what a great call that was not.  http://seekingalpha.com/article/50243-go… Dec 15 15:52
twitter Lord, they did it with conviction three months later http://www.247wallst.com/2008/01/goldm… Dec 15 15:55
twitter The job is a “grind” that “can’t be much fun anymore” http://seekingalpha.com/article/19900-goldman-s… Dec 15 15:57
twitter Finally, the firm has it’s fair share of sell outs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman… Dec 15 15:57
twitter This one is disgusting, http://www.reuters.com/article/gove… Dec 15 15:59
twitter Will someone please think of the rich people this Christmas? Dec 15 15:59
twitter markets in free fall as everyone expected from the Madoff fraud, http://finance.google.com/finance Dec 15 16:00
twitter M$ led the way but seems to have bounced a little http://finance.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFT Dec 15 16:02
schestowitz Rick Sherlund leaving… *LOL* I remember that. Dec 15 16:09
schestowitz http://groups.google.com/groups/search?ie=utf-8&a… Dec 15 16:10
schestowitz He saw what was coming back in 2006 Dec 15 16:11
schestowitz Novell marketing director before the Microsoft deal: “That’s how Novell views its role. I don’t know if you want to be the Microsoft of anything.” http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/modules.php?op=modlo… Dec 15 16:12
schestowitz How ironic Dec 15 16:12
schestowitz Madoff is just the beginning. Dec 15 16:13
schestowitz Microsoft at $18.xx again. Dec 15 16:14
twitter another toxic asset, better dump it.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9s… Dec 15 16:30
twitter http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj175/MEl… Dec 15 16:30
schestowitz I have a friend who want to buy a house Dec 15 16:33
schestowitz He told me yesterday that he can’t trust it in the bank. Dec 15 16:33
schestowitz Interest rates here are very low too (just 1-2%) Dec 15 16:34
schestowitz So he might buy another house. The thing is, the price of houses carries on falling, so why buy /NOW/? Be sure to read what Mark Shuttleworth wrote about the situation as well. Dec 15 16:34
twitter If he’s got cash, he should hold onto it.  Everyone is talking about deflation.  If we really get into a depression, cash will be king. Dec 15 16:39
schestowitz Banks can’t secure it. Dec 15 16:48
schestowitz My dad just phoned me about it. Dec 15 16:48
schestowitz I’m lucky to have saved. I’ve worked since I was a teenager, so I’m not in debt. Dec 15 16:49
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reikon So what’s this all about? I can has links or some such to read? Dec 15 16:53
reikon Oh I see you have a website, noice… I shall read. Dec 15 16:55
schestowitz Yes. Dec 15 16:56
schestowitz It’s interesting that people find out about it via IRC Dec 15 16:56
reikon Honestly, I was googling for a VB.NET channel to get some annoying kid out of ##programming and I just stumbled upon a log. Dec 15 16:57
twitter “Banks can’t secure it.” Oh, yeah.  Even here in the US government only insures up to 100,000 per account and houses cost way more.  Now I understand the problem. Dec 15 16:59
schestowitz reikon: vb.net is not something that we advocate. ;-) Dec 15 17:00
twitter it will get people out of programming though Dec 15 17:01
schestowitz twitter: I don’t think my friend was even aware of his serious the critis is Dec 15 17:01
schestowitz Here’s the thing. A mutual friend of ours was discussed too. He didn’t say this to me, but the company they did a contact with (highway engineering) could not pay!! Dec 15 17:02
twitter I’m not sure anyone is aware of how serious things are. Dec 15 17:02
schestowitz Imagine doing lots of work thinking you can pay everyone, but the ripple effect suddenly hits you indirectly, because someone /ELSE/ can’t pay you. Dec 15 17:02
schestowitz This put good jobs at risk. They already do not renew contract with temps. Dec 15 17:03
schestowitz Speaking of which, http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/si… Dec 15 17:03
schestowitz He had a contract. Dec 15 17:03
schestowitz As Lessig puts it, “Required Reading”… http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/sig… Dec 15 17:06
schestowitz Oops. This one: http://mises.org/rothbard/agd.pdf Dec 15 17:06
schestowitz < http://www.digitalmajority.org/… > Dec 15 17:08
reikon Well, it’s no surprise Gnome is becoming Mono-dependent. Icaza created both projects and works for Novell. Dec 15 17:08
schestowitz Yes, but they claim that he has been distanced from his child, GNOME. Dec 15 17:09
reikon Gnome, maybe. But not Mono. Dec 15 17:12
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Moose Souls! I require them! Dec 15 17:13
reikon You can find him on GIMPNet helping out in #mono Dec 15 17:13
schestowitz True. Mono is another step Dec 15 17:13
schestowitz Hey, Moose Dec 15 17:13
Moose Heya. Dec 15 17:13
schestowitz Novell needs Mono. Dec 15 17:13
Moose Harr, which mono? :P Dec 15 17:14
schestowitz If only people could separate their interests from the rest. Novell controls Mono, unlike, say… KDE. Microsoft controls Mono indirectly because of the way .NET evolves. Dec 15 17:14
schestowitz Moose: Monoel de Icaza Dec 15 17:14
Moose O.o Dec 15 17:14
reikon schestowitz: Is there an alternative for a similar software development platform? Dec 15 17:15
schestowitz REQUIRE novell.NET EEE.executeHijack(); Dec 15 17:15
schestowitz reikon: mostly java. Dec 15 17:15
reikon schestowitz: Java doesn’t have Qt or GTK bindings, does it? Dec 15 17:16
schestowitz This assume you accept the hypothesis that OOP is the principal way to go. Dec 15 17:16
schestowitz reikon: it’s complicated, but it does have that, IIRC Dec 15 17:16
reikon schestowitz: I just like OOP. Dec 15 17:16
Moose OOP is amazing. Dec 15 17:16
schestowitz I remember something about Jambi and Gtk has something too Dec 15 17:16
reikon C is fine, but annoying to use for coding applications. C++ is hideous to me and I refuse to touch it. Dec 15 17:16
Moose ^ Dec 15 17:16
schestowitz c++ is aging. Dec 15 17:17
reikon Objective-C is fine as well, but it has virtually no support outside of Mac OS X. Dec 15 17:17
schestowitz But it has a lot of legacy and it’s good for education Dec 15 17:17
schestowitz KDE is c++-based Dec 15 17:17
Moose Let’s all switch back to memorizing opcodes and writing software with hex editors. Dec 15 17:17
MinceR you do that, i’ll stick with C++ and Python. Dec 15 17:17
reikon D has a split with its standard libraries and its Qt and GTK bindings are _poor_. I tried to compile the examples and half of them crashed. Dec 15 17:18
schestowitz http://java-gnome.sourceforge.net/ Dec 15 17:19
reikon What about GNU.NET? Dec 15 17:20
schestowitz http://www.gtk.org/language-bindings.html Dec 15 17:20
schestowitz dotgnu? Dec 15 17:20
reikon Yeah… that one <_< Dec 15 17:20
schestowitz I think it’s treated more or less like Win. Dec 15 17:20
schestowitz *Wine. Dec 15 17:20
schestowitz No-one seems to develop with it. Novell, OTOH, makes development tools for Mono and fosters development with Mono. Dec 15 17:21
reikon Indeed. MonoDevelop is one of the best IDEs I’ve ever used, to be honest. Dec 15 17:21
schestowitz RMS sort of warned that it’s necessary to harnessed .NET to bring people over to GNU, but not to develop using it. Dec 15 17:21
reikon Ahh Dec 15 17:22
schestowitz Mono develop is about making FOSS develops embrace the Beast. Dec 15 17:22
schestowitz *developers Dec 15 17:22
reikon Pretty much. Dec 15 17:22
schestowitz Embrace as in E.E.E. Dec 15 17:22
reikon Does Anjuta support Java-Gnome? Dec 15 17:25
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neighborlee schestowitz, lol, more adhominem attacks from mono supporters: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/No-Mono-by… : ” In summary, it seems as though you just hate Mono and you want it removed for your own self-gratification. ” :),,they just never learn. Dec 15 17:43
schestowitz *LOL* Dec 15 17:48
schestowitz Self-gratification.. Dec 15 17:48
schestowitz   In summary, it seems as though Miguel just loves Microsoft and he wants it included  for his own self-gratification.” Dec 15 17:49
neighborlee heh Dec 15 17:50
schestowitz He’s at Microsoft now, y’know? (physically) Dec 15 17:52
twitter Ick, monobation. Dec 15 17:52
neighborlee schestowitz, who is at Microsoft now ? Dec 15 17:53
schestowitz I think he’s a stage now where he can get more work done in Redmond than he gets done with his colleague in Waltham (Novell) Dec 15 17:54
schestowitz See his blog. He’s at Microsoft again. Dec 15 17:54
neighborlee ok thats just bizarro Dec 15 17:55
neighborlee as if that surprises me, but still… ;) Dec 15 17:55
schestowitz One issue is that they make it more rational for Microsoft to acquire SUSE and Novell one day. Dec 15 17:59
neighborlee I dont think there’s anything rational about the redmond giant ,,err dwarf when t comes to morals ;) Dec 15 18:00
schestowitz http://www.webmink.net/2008/12/why-… “Even though we won this particular censorship skirmish, it bears repeating that the IWF signifies a very problematic approach to content control by governments, including, sadly, the United Kingdom.” Dec 15 18:01
schestowitz So… how’s that Wiki at Ubuntu? ITF*kinMono? Dec 15 18:01
neighborlee I had no idea gnome was supposed to reevaluatte mono in each release Dec 15 18:02
schestowitz Reevaluate version: value=value+1; Dec 15 18:03
neighborlee lol Dec 15 18:03
schestowitz Mono 2.0. Welcome! Dec 15 18:03
neighborlee I guess opensourcerer’s website is down atm..odd timing but oh well Dec 15 18:04
neighborlee he uses joomla it seems.. Dec 15 18:04
schestowitz Front pager on the way: http://digg.com/linux_unix/GNU_Linux… Dec 15 18:05
schestowitz neighborlee: he uses WordPress, like me (in 3 sites) Dec 15 18:05
neighborlee ah Dec 15 18:06
neighborlee I saw something about joomla when I tried to access his site.. Dec 15 18:06
neighborlee a error as in Dec 15 18:06
neighborlee ok well nvm then..ITS up now. Dec 15 18:07
neighborlee whew Dec 15 18:07
schestowitz http://www.alternet.org/story/1127… “Everything began with the industrial revolution in 1750, which gave birth to the capitalist system. In two and a half centuries, the so called “developed” countries have consumed a large part of the fossil fuels created over five million centuries.” Dec 15 18:07
neighborlee michael is on the attack again, though his rebuttle is Weak. Dec 15 18:07
schestowitz Which one? Traubach (spelling wrong)? Dec 15 18:08
neighborlee let me try to find Dec 15 18:08
twitter Another Vista Failure Victim, RAM makers:  http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?… Dec 15 18:08
schestowitz Traunch maybe. Dec 15 18:08
neighborlee yes , him :) Dec 15 18:08
schestowitz Wot? Vista was not far /enough? Dec 15 18:08
neighborlee http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/… < bottom of page Dec 15 18:09
schestowitz *fat Dec 15 18:09
neighborlee LOL Dec 15 18:09
schestowitz He’s arguing in USENET too Dec 15 18:09
neighborlee o_0- Dec 15 18:09
schestowitz Too bad… I have a cordial relationship with him.. Dec 15 18:09
schestowitz He likes mono.. Dec 15 18:09
neighborlee I suspect he programs in it Dec 15 18:09
neighborlee like jo Dec 15 18:09
neighborlee and no doubt alexH ? Dec 15 18:09
neighborlee not sure but it would seem logical Dec 15 18:09
neighborlee his argument is very one dimensional Dec 15 18:11
schestowitz I don’t know if Alex uses Mono. Dec 15 18:11
schestowitz Michael does and so does Jo Dec 15 18:12
neighborlee he just doesn’t get it…whether M$ has sued or will later isn’t all of it,,its that we are in bed with them by utilizing any of their ‘stuff’…their spin machine is trying to work but at its heart its just deceit and in time if we continue pushing uses will see it. Dec 15 18:12
Omar87 So, can we say that Creative Commons (as the name implies) is a License for common innovations? Dec 15 18:12
schestowitz We should work together with them to get answers. Mono remains a dangerous uncertainty because it’s at Microsoft’s mercy, as well as ITS USERS Dec 15 18:12
schestowitz Omar87: yes, indeed. Dec 15 18:13
schestowitz Peer production Dec 15 18:13
Omar87 For example, we can’t put a newly invented cure under CC, because this sort of innovation is not common. Dec 15 18:13
Omar87 But, when a doctor writes a book about cancer, he can license his book under CC, because authoring books is a common thing. Dec 15 18:15
Omar87 Is that right? Dec 15 18:15
schestowitz That sounds reasonable, but.. Dec 15 18:15
schestowitz It’s like adopting the attitude of ‘mixed source’ Dec 15 18:15
schestowitz I don’t agree with it because humanity can go further. To say that only generics (as in drugs) can be free is to basically just achieve the same as patents or copyrights (monopoly) with a time limit. Dec 15 18:16
schestowitz It’s like saying that alcohol is bad for you (it is), but little alcohol is good. Dec 15 18:17
Omar87 Yeah, that’s true. Dec 15 18:17
schestowitz It’s also like saying that a little bit of pain and selfishness is acceptable (why?) Dec 15 18:17
Omar87 But what I’m trying to get to here is that CC is only for commons innovations. Dec 15 18:17
schestowitz There is a similar discussion ( zoobab knows about this) about “high quality” software patent (what’s high quality?) Dec 15 18:18
schestowitz Another thing is RAND (what is reasonable?) Dec 15 18:18
Omar87 but, uncommon innovations must have another sort of freedom to deal with it. Dec 15 18:18
neighborlee There are a lot of things in life that should be free, but as a society we aren’t ready to go there yet because those whom embrace capitalism do so as well it continues to embrace classes of people where none shoud exist ;) Dec 15 18:19
schestowitz You can set things up such that all is commons-made. Dec 15 18:19
Omar87 schestowitz: No, you can’t. Dec 15 18:19
schestowitz For instance, a government in a country that suffers from AIDS can pool together resources from a cure and not have it privatized. Dec 15 18:19
schestowitz Putting lives in the hands of corporations (pharmas) is risky because shareholder/stakeholder decide who lives and who dies. Dec 15 18:20
Omar87 schestowitz: simply because for example, all people can right poetry, but not everyone can write a kernel. Dec 15 18:20
Omar87 schestowitz: That’s 100% true. Dec 15 18:20
schestowitz Not everyone can write poetry, either. Dec 15 18:21
schestowitz Poetry requires trhat a person learns  a language, just like another learns a /computer/ language. Dec 15 18:21
Omar87 schestowitz: Oh yeah, that’s correct. :0 Dec 15 18:21
Omar87 :)* Dec 15 18:21
schestowitz To pharmas, death is money . $$$$$$$ Dec 15 18:22
schestowitz They need a problem in order to sell a solution. The greater the problem (or more widespread), the more profit they make. Dec 15 18:22
schestowitz A lot of industries use this as a business model. Let me find an exampel. Dec 15 18:22
schestowitz http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/… Dec 15 18:23
neighborlee capitalism hasn’t learned yet to embrace what many of us have known for a very long time..that a rich man will have a much harder time getting into heaven, than a camel through the eye of a needle ;)…but just as most religions have it wrong in many regards  today , so does our system of  ‘money’ atm  ;)…its so simple yet hard to understand for those that cant or wont embrace equality for everyone ;) Dec 15 18:24
neighborlee god never made the universe with a sign out in space saying ‘ok , this is REALLY going to ‘cost’ you’ ;)) Dec 15 18:25
neighborlee what god has made freely, let man charge for ;))heh Dec 15 18:26
schestowitz :-) Dec 15 18:26
schestowitz God makes the big money, eh? Dec 15 18:26
neighborlee anyway.. Dec 15 18:26
schestowitz How much id Earth worth? Dec 15 18:26
neighborlee lol Dec 15 18:26
schestowitz “I shall trade Earth for two camels and a needle,” utterth teh Gods Dec 15 18:27
neighborlee :))) Dec 15 18:27
schestowitz Tell God about all that IP!!! Dec 15 18:27
neighborlee and make them super size please ! ;) Dec 15 18:27
schestowitz We have patents. Don’t sell. He doesn’t value the linked list. Dec 15 18:27
Omar87 schestowitz: Can we please stop talking about God? Dec 15 18:28
schestowitz OK, sorry. Dec 15 18:28
Omar87 Thank you. Dec 15 18:28
neighborlee schestowitz, nothing to be sporry for dude ;) Dec 15 18:29
neighborlee without our creator, we’d not have this IRC channel to talk on :) Dec 15 18:29
neighborlee but I digress..:) Dec 15 18:29
schestowitz The idea of IP is bizarre. Dec 15 18:29
schestowitz Money out of nothing. Dec 15 18:29
neighborlee totally Dec 15 18:29
schestowitz I hereby define auro to be valuable. Dec 15 18:29
schestowitz *aura Dec 15 18:30
schestowitz That who shall employ a man must be auro tax (AT) Dec 15 18:30
neighborlee :) Dec 15 18:30
schestowitz Or have it licensed at an annual cost of $49.99 per photon. Dec 15 18:30
neighborlee lol Dec 15 18:30
neighborlee what about all  that dark matter and dark energy thats part of a unknown theory of the universe ..whats that worth ;) Dec 15 18:31
neighborlee ha Dec 15 18:31
schestowitz Just caught in the news a second ago: ” Russian hopes to cash in on ;-)” < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/eu… > Dec 15 18:32
schestowitz Yeah… Boris… that’ll save the Russian economy. Dec 15 18:32
neighborlee :)) Dec 15 18:32
*schestowitz thinkg Heisenberg rolls in his grave… thinking he could be a billionaire. Dec 15 18:32
Omar87 Guys, did you hear about the Iraqi mediaman? :) Dec 15 18:32
schestowitz Omar87: no, what’s the news? Dec 15 18:33
Omar87 schestowitz: He hurled his pair of shoes at president bush in a press conference in Iraq. Dec 15 18:34
Omar87 http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meas… Dec 15 18:34
schestowitz Haha. Dec 15 18:37
neighborlee Omar87, I sure did Dec 15 18:37
neighborlee Omar87, dont know any details atm Dec 15 18:37
schestowitz I can’t wait until the game: http://www.egg-attack.com/ Dec 15 18:37
schestowitz Needs to be shoe-attack.com Dec 15 18:37
neighborlee woah ;)( Dec 15 18:39
neighborlee rofl yeah Dec 15 18:39
schestowitz Ah… I didn’t make the high score :-) Dec 15 18:39
*Moose (n=Moose@unaffiliated/moose) has left #boycottnovell (“Leaving and such”) Dec 15 18:40
schestowitz ‘While pinned on the ground by security personnel, he screamed: “You killed the Iraqis!”‘ … well, I guess George will get back to drinking again and forget about the incident. Dec 15 18:41
neighborlee lol Dec 15 18:41
schestowitz Wow. Dec 15 18:41
schestowitz The CNN says “The visit was Bush’s fourth since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003.” << “invasion” Dec 15 18:41
neighborlee OMG,,cnn showed this bizarro ( talk about weird) video with bush, laura and kids doing somet weird holiday celebrations.. Dec 15 18:41
neighborlee afterwards 3 cnn staff commented how STUFFY it all looked,,’ they n eeded acting lessons’ ,,o_0 Dec 15 18:42
neighborlee it really did look odd. Dec 15 18:42
neighborlee o_0 Dec 15 18:42
neighborlee I mean the ony thing ‘cute’ about it was their cute dog ;) Dec 15 18:42
schestowitz Got a link for it? Dec 15 18:43
schestowitz Let me see… Dec 15 18:43
neighborlee lacked obama ‘rhythm’ ;)) Dec 15 18:43
neighborlee heh Dec 15 18:43
neighborlee let me try find Dec 15 18:43
schestowitz 236.com: CNN’s Rick Sanchez is all over this bailout < http://uk.youtube.com/watch… > Dec 15 18:43
schestowitz Last call for Phoronix survey: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php… Dec 15 18:46
neighborlee cant find it atm..it was called basically , red white and blue christmas o_0 Dec 15 18:46
schestowitz I found this: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/9723… Dec 15 18:47
neighborlee yeah I saw the attack machine’s ad hominem attacks on you on that subject…more of the expected same from them. Dec 15 18:47
neighborlee they just neve learn Dec 15 18:47
schestowitz Me?? Dec 15 18:48
neighborlee http://www.cbsnews.com/video/wat… < close as I can come atm Dec 15 18:49
neighborlee yes you ;) Dec 15 18:49
neighborlee moi ? ;) Dec 15 18:49
neighborlee http://www.cbsnews.com/vide… < and of course this one Dec 15 18:50
neighborlee my precious precious CHIP ahahahah Dec 15 18:51
schestowitz *LOL* Dec 15 18:56
schestowitz Show *ATTACK*? Dec 15 18:56
schestowitz See how they use words? Dec 15 18:56
schestowitz Iraq = liberation, not invasion. Dec 15 18:57
schestowitz Shooting people=defense; Bush+show=attack Dec 15 18:57
schestowitz *shoe Dec 15 18:57
schestowitz The thing is like a glove slap… it’s symbolic and he deserved it. Dec 15 18:57
neighborlee I think that was the idea behind it no doubt Dec 15 19:00
schestowitz *LOL* Dec 15 19:01
schestowitz “The shoes are both held as evidence” Dec 15 19:01
schestowitz *LMAO* Dec 15 19:01
schestowitz Your honour, I would like to show you the shoe. It has a very solid sole [jury rises /] [jury gasps /] Dec 15 19:03
schestowitz MS issues brown alert over unpatched IE 7 flaw < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200… >  Brown… like the Zune… among other things from Microsoft Dec 15 19:08
schestowitz SGI slashes 15 per cent of its workforce < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200… > Dec 15 19:09
schestowitz A shame really… They do Linux. Dec 15 19:10
neighborlee yeah ;( Dec 15 19:11
schestowitz Brown alert… seems like an alert you sound when you realise Ubuntu is a threat Dec 15 19:11
twitter Vista was fat enough, but no one bought it because it did not work. Dec 15 19:12
twitter he he, slap in the face.  the symbolic start of a duel.  Mr. Bush gets the first shot but would do better to let his harmless victim go. Dec 15 19:18
schestowitz I need a migration plan for my data… Palm’s been doing nothing for years.. Is Nova Palm’s Prince Charming? < http://www.pcworld.com/article/155485… > Dec 15 19:19
schestowitz I don’t like this… http://www.pcworld.com/article/155503/… (Microsoft Data-center Leader Joins Rival Amazon Web Services). How long will they be “rivals” for.? Dec 15 19:20
schestowitz NOVL is down 6% today Dec 15 19:22
schestowitz They have not been so worthless for ages… http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=N… Almost a new all-time (ish) low. Dec 15 19:24
schestowitz Lowest since the EIGHTIES. Dec 15 19:24
schestowitz Oops. Actually it was worse in 2003-4 Dec 15 19:25
schestowitz We have just been cited by IDG (an article about Microsoft): http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/… Dec 15 19:35
schestowitz “Microsoft, however, has generated a considerable degree of disdain in open source and free software communities as expressed on sites such as “Boycott Novell.” (A “Boycott Novell” representative had harsh words for a two-year-old Novell-Microsoft partnership in a recent InfoWorld retrospective on the arrangement.)” Dec 15 19:35
neighborlee :) Dec 15 19:49
schestowitz *LOL* http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XJMBLznh… Dec 15 19:50
neighborlee recent accommodations for open source and its willingness to look at innovation from all sources. < ROFL,, who are they kidding..oh yeah THEMSELVES ;)) Dec 15 19:52
schestowitz They might actually believe in their lies. Dec 15 19:55
schestowitz “Well, I agree about Mono: if anyone feels he would *need* Mono, then it should go for the real && complete thing, which is .NET under Windows. Normally, people use Linux for escaping Microsoft in the Unix way, so they shouldn’t “need” Mono. Mono is *not* “the Unix way” — it’s like Mother Teresa smoking pot.” Dec 15 19:59
schestowitz From http://beranger.org/index.php?page… Dec 15 19:59
neighborlee guy must have been major bored ;) Dec 15 20:00
schestowitz If true, this is not good: http://techdirt.com/articles/20081214… Dec 15 20:02
neighborlee The CDN thing sounds to me to be very iffy on it not violating neutrality Dec 15 20:07
schestowitz http://www.linuxinsider.co… ” drawing more than 1,500 comments by Friday — and on Digg on Thursday, where it garnered more than 5,500 Diggs and almost 800 comments in less than 24 hours. So extreme were the reactions to the letter, in fact, that some doubted it was genuine.” Dec 15 20:08
schestowitz Hey Karen, welcome to (hell control W) the community. <  http://cookingwithlinux.com/content/hey-karne-… > Dec 15 20:09
schestowitz http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/270896/p… < In Pictures: Aussies rally against against sanitised Internet Dec 15 20:17
twitter Data migration.  Whatever I migrate to must be free and work with kontact. Dec 15 20:17
twitter Right now, I have zero need for a PDA.  My handspring does duty for grocery lists. Dec 15 20:18
twitter My old Zaurus ill do the trick using an ancient copy of OpenZaurus if I get a job soon.  I’m not willing to share my contacts and other personal information with a rooted cell phone, but I might consider OpenMoko. Dec 15 20:19
schestowitz http://playingwithsid.blogspot.com/2008/12/fs… Dec 15 20:19
schestowitz SSL Certificate for *.opensuse.org Has Expired < http://news.opensuse.org/2008/12/13/s… > Dec 15 20:21
twitter Cool.  I know the software for good mobile phones is there. Dec 15 20:21
twitter GPE had X11 and most of debian back in 2004. Dec 15 20:22
schestowitz It will do Android too Dec 15 20:22
twitter Is Android free? Dec 15 20:22
schestowitz I’m realising that IDG gets very little traffic. Dec 15 20:23
schestowitz Old media *is* dying Dec 15 20:23
twitter KDE sync is not complicated by multiple sources.  I’ve got many calendars and address books now and don’t want to sync with all of them.  I do want the sync software to keep track of what contact and event goes in what address book. Dec 15 20:24
schestowitz That magazine that cited us no longer prints magazines. Based on referrals, not many people red it, either. Slashdot is  massively more massive ( :-) ) than many of these ‘tech’ trade journals combined. Dec 15 20:24
twitter That’s interesting. Dec 15 20:25
reikon How do you guys feel about Vala? Dec 15 20:25
schestowitz Groklaw hibernated, but I think it’s just being organised. It hasn’t missed any major news. Dec 15 20:25
twitter Old media is dead. Dec 15 20:25
schestowitz Yes, Vala… the C#-like P/L without the Mono and Novell. Dec 15 20:25
schestowitz Linux.com did an article about Vala last week. Dec 15 20:25
schestowitz Not dead, dying. Dec 15 20:26
schestowitz They can’t pay writers for much longer Dec 15 20:26
reikon Vala is dying? Or Linux.com? Dec 15 20:26
schestowitz Elgan and Schroder wrote articles about it around Friday. They’re axing like nobody’s business. Dec 15 20:26
schestowitz Even LinuxToday seems to be shrinking. Dec 15 20:26
schestowitz reikon: actually both. Dec 15 20:26
schestowitz Oh, oops Dec 15 20:27
schestowitz I meant.. Dec 15 20:27
schestowitz But I was talking about old media.. Linux.com included Dec 15 20:27
schestowitz Not Vala. Dec 15 20:27
twitter rikon, I like C. Dec 15 20:27
schestowitz Vala seems to be rising because it was hardly known a while ago Dec 15 20:27
schestowitz http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/M… “Microsoft has appointed a new point man to put a face on its interaction with the open source community. That man, Robert Duffner, takes on a big task as senior director of Platform and Open Source Software strategy at Microsoft. His IBM and BEA roots will help him place his mark on the Microsoft strategy, but the core messag Dec 15 20:30
schestowitz e remains the same.” Dec 15 20:30
schestowitz Microsoft is now approaching journalists with this BS Dec 15 20:30
schestowitz Robert Duffner… turncoat… self-appointed piece[sic] maker Dec 15 20:31
reikon twitter: I like C too, but there’s some things that are just easier to do in other languages. Dec 15 20:31
reikon Like applications programming. Dec 15 20:31
schestowitz “Google has made Chrome the default browser in the English version of Google Pack, the search company’s application bundle, replacing Firefox.” < http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/internet… > Dec 15 20:45
schestowitz So they gave them funding for the search bar, but no more boost…. shortly after StarOffice….. Dec 15 20:45
twitter On the death of old media.  Tabloids will survive but people who want to know things will go somewhere else.  Yes, most broadcast and print is no better than tabloids, and in the US they carry a warning that essentially states, “for entertainment purposes only.” Dec 15 20:54
schestowitz Heh. http://www.internetling.com/2008/12/14/ene… Dec 15 20:59
schestowitz Linux is NOT UNIX :-) http://ubuntu-snippets.blogspot.com/2008/12/epide… Dec 15 21:02
schestowitz “Ever since the terrifying terror strike in Mumbai on November 26, many of us have strained hard to find some voices advocating peace. The overwhelming chant is one demanding war and revenge. It is reminiscent of other times, in other places. In the United States post 9/11. And an echo of that is heard in the India of today.” http://www.hindu.com/mag/2008/12/14/sto… Dec 15 21:06
schestowitz RMS links to it  and also this: http://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf… Dec 15 21:08
schestowitz Cory on selling people their rights back to them: http://craphound.com/msftdrm.txt Dec 15 21:44
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  1. Dan O'Brian said,

    December 16, 2008 at 8:32 am


    <schestowitz> He [Beranger] cause so much damage to GNU/Linux… now we can use him to our advantage when he ‘learns’ (to break) Winodws)

    Funny, that. I seem to recall you linking to his blog regularly, even after I pointed out that he was doing more harm than good for FLOSS (sound familiar? Seems to be the modus operandi here at BN).

  2. Roy Schestowitz said,

    December 16, 2008 at 9:12 am


    I’ve tried to shut him up for ages (mostly the Linux rants thing). I like his political rants.

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