| schestowitz |
http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?l… |
Jan 30 19:14 |
| wasabi |
I agree with the first part of that first sentence. |
Jan 30 19:15 |
| wasabi |
Crawl back into your hole. If you want |
Jan 30 19:15 |
| wasabi |
to know why Linux is less prevalent on |
Jan 30 19:15 |
| wasabi |
netbooks now that it was when netbooks |
Jan 30 19:15 |
| wasabi |
emerged, look no further than |
Jan 30 19:15 |
| wasabi |
boycottnovell.com |
Jan 30 19:15 |
| schestowitz |
They get trolls in LT |
Jan 30 19:15 |
| schestowitz |
That troll from LT also trolled BN |
Jan 30 19:15 |
| schestowitz |
Some guy @hotmail.com |
Jan 30 19:16 |
| wasabi |
I’m disagreeing with that post. |
Jan 30 19:16 |
| schestowitz |
When Hackers Are Funny < http://blog.datamation.com/blog/20… > |
Jan 30 19:42 |
| schestowitz |
Dell for Linux phones?? http://www.pcworld.com/article/158624/dell_to_ma… |
Jan 30 19:44 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 30 19:49 |
| schestowitz |
I always feel as though I type it all too fast (on the go), which compromises quality. Then again, there is so much stuff to cover, so, you know… might as well get on with the content and worry less about the details. |
Jan 30 20:05 |
| schestowitz |
This one took a long time to do, but I eventually got all the details right: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/30/micr… |
Jan 30 20:06 |
| schestowitz |
Can anyone proofread with me? Please? |
Jan 30 20:06 |
| twitter |
Here’s a funny one. M$ sues former employee for “spying”. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/39… |
Jan 30 20:06 |
| twitter |
So much for M$’s “document security” |
Jan 30 20:07 |
| twitter |
DRM Failure. |
Jan 30 20:07 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: can you read the above |
Jan 30 20:11 |
| schestowitz |
It’s worse than spying. Read it and be wowed |
Jan 30 20:11 |
| twitter |
Am reading now. wow indeed. |
Jan 30 20:12 |
| twitter |
I sent you the last link because people were talking up DRM as a way to keep corporate secrets. It should be apparent from this suit that M$’s DRM failed to protect them. The older case is classic and probably how M$ shut down the big GNU/Linux thrust at the end of the 90s. |
Jan 30 20:14 |
| schestowitz |
twitter: I have more on DRM too |
Jan 30 20:19 |
| schestowitz |
I could use your help |
Jan 30 20:19 |
| schestowitz |
Could you extract the relevant text from these 3? http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index… |
Jan 30 20:20 |
| schestowitz |
The Gutmann paper is less relevant to this (mostly Vista), but the rest need to be exposed. |
Jan 30 20:21 |
| *zer0c00l has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Jan 30 20:31 |
| schestowitz |
Swiss police spy marijuana field with Google Earth < http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-technology/sw… > |
Jan 30 20:33 |
| twitter |
I’ll have a look at it. |
Jan 30 20:35 |
| PetoKraus |
nice article |
Jan 30 20:36 |
| PetoKraus |
it does not surprise me |
Jan 30 20:36 |
| schestowitz |
Hehe. Check out Gates’ fright of Linux drivers here: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/u… |
Jan 30 20:37 |
| PetoKraus |
but it’s good to have the data |
Jan 30 20:37 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, data is needed for legal action for example |
Jan 30 20:37 |
| schestowitz |
I’m having a cursory look at more Intel exhibits that need doing… |
Jan 30 20:37 |
| schestowitz |
I never saw comments we got in Reddit… hmmmmmmmmm.. http://www.reddit.com/search?q=boycottnovell |
Jan 30 20:42 |
| schestowitz |
The “kretik ” stalker is there too (reddit) — same guy that harasses me in Digg and mods down all my comment, along with libel. Maybe an MS shill… |
Jan 30 20:46 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft on Intel… they have no shame.. More on the way…  |
Jan 30 21:09 |
| schestowitz |
wasabi: is this you? http://digg.com/users/wasabii |
Jan 30 21:10 |
| schestowitz |
So all your pro-patents and pro-Windows remarks make sense now. You’re here to troll. http://www.facebook.com/people/Jero… |
Jan 30 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
Oh, I see… |
Jan 30 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
http://lists.o-hand.com/gupnp… “I’d just like to let anybody who cares know about the Mono bindings I have been working on. You can find them published in bzr at [1]. “ |
Jan 30 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
wasabi: so you’re one of the Mono developers. |
Jan 30 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, lots of Mono stuff: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~wasabi |
Jan 30 21:14 |
| wasabi |
Do you consider alternate views trolling by default? |
Jan 30 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
And you’re slinging at us at Digg |
Jan 30 21:14 |
| schestowitz |
So why are you here? |
Jan 30 21:15 |
| wasabi |
To watch. Because I find it curious. |
Jan 30 21:15 |
| schestowitz |
OK |
Jan 30 21:15 |
| schestowitz |
At least we now know your motives |
Jan 30 21:15 |
| wasabi |
Do you? I suspect you really have no idea. |
Jan 30 21:15 |
| twitter |
that would make you a liar |
Jan 30 21:15 |
| schestowitz |
So you love Mono and……. you promote Windows here |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| schestowitz |
And you also strongly defend software patents, saying that they are good to you. |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| wasabi |
I don’t promote or demote anything. |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| schestowitz |
Is this the norm among Mono devs? |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| wasabi |
You may have noticed that. I just state opinions. |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| wasabi |
I’m not anti-linux, I’m not anti-MS, I’m not really anti-anything. |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| wasabi |
I’m pro-everything. |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| schestowitz |
But you like software patents |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| schestowitz |
Fair enough |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| wasabi |
I don’t mind them. |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| schestowitz |
But we now know this |
Jan 30 21:16 |
| wasabi |
I cannot write off software patents while not seeing a good alternative to them. |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
Are you pro-free thought? |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| wasabi |
Because I don’t view the world as black/white. |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
What do other Mono devs think? |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| wasabi |
I view it as a bunch of silly humans negotiating for position, compromising, trying to get stuff done. |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| wasabi |
Which ones? |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
Would you pay Microsoft for .NET patents? |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| wasabi |
I’m not a ‘Mono dev’. |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| wasabi |
I’ve produced barely coherent bindings for gupnp, that don’t work. |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| twitter |
You won’t even tell us why you are here. Why should we believe anything you have to say? |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| wasabi |
That’s about the extent of it. |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
You spend a lot of time controbting to it |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
Why? |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| wasabi |
Do I? |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| wasabi |
How much time? |
Jan 30 21:17 |
| schestowitz |
Are you helping Linux be patent encumbered |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
So that the sw patents you love become part of ti? |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| wasabi |
Which patents? |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| wasabi |
See, interseting. |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| wasabi |
You now claim i ‘love’ them. |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| wasabi |
That’s an irrational position, as I never stated or inferred that I did. |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| MinceR |
there’s a good alternative to sw patents: no sw patents. |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
He’s not pro-no sw patents |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
He’s pro Microsoft things |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| wasabi |
I’m pro-everything. |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| MinceR |
i know |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| schestowitz |
Check log history |
Jan 30 21:18 |
| wasabi |
Here I am. Speaking to you from a Linux box. |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| twitter |
there are better things to do |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| wasabi |
You’ll notice my hostname. |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| schestowitz |
wasabi: no such thing as pro-everything |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| schestowitz |
That would imply pro-terrorism and child abuse too |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| *kentma has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| wasabi |
Heh. How about we keep on topic? |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| schestowitz |
This is the topic |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| wasabi |
I’m an ubuntu developer. A mono developer. And I develop Linux applications in C, and Windows applications. I promote open source where it fits, and whatever else wherever else it fits. |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| PetoKraus |
ubuntu |
Jan 30 21:19 |
| wasabi |
brb |
Jan 30 21:20 |
| PetoKraus |
no worries mate |
Jan 30 21:20 |
| twitter |
take your time |
Jan 30 21:20 |
| PetoKraus |
you know, shane made quite correct assumption |
Jan 30 21:20 |
| PetoKraus |
about “internet credibility” |
Jan 30 21:21 |
| PetoKraus |
there’s no such thing, especially when anyone can use any smurf account |
Jan 30 21:21 |
| MinceR |
“open source where it fits, and whatever else wherever else it fits” would match just about anything |
Jan 30 21:21 |
| schestowitz |
I know.. |
Jan 30 21:21 |
| MinceR |
the question is what you think fits where |
Jan 30 21:21 |
| schestowitz |
Ox picture comes to mind. |
Jan 30 21:21 |
| PetoKraus |
that was only ad “I am an analytical chemist. And casual python programmer. I promote free software where it fits, and repair windows machines as my job.” |
Jan 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft like open source where it fits.. an unimplemented TCP/IP stack |
Jan 30 21:22 |
| MinceR |
|
Jan 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz |
“it Fits!” |
Jan 30 21:22 |
| MinceR |
as long as they don’t have to give anything back |
Jan 30 21:22 |
| PetoKraus |
actually today |
Jan 30 21:22 |
| MinceR |
and they’ll still call it an “intellectual property destroyer” while raking in the profits |
Jan 30 21:23 |
| schestowitz |
|
Jan 30 21:23 |
| schestowitz |
Sounds like Apple |
Jan 30 21:23 |
| PetoKraus |
i was thinking – i paid £25 for “silver service” of my bike |
Jan 30 21:23 |
| MinceR |
apple and microsoft |
Jan 30 21:23 |
| PetoKraus |
i guess it took the guy approx 2 hours to fix it |
Jan 30 21:23 |
| PetoKraus |
now, system restore in our shop is £40… it takes me at about two hours |
Jan 30 21:23 |
| PetoKraus |
i’m wondering whether it’s fair |
Jan 30 21:23 |
| *kapipi has quit (Remote closed the connection) |
Jan 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz |
To whom? |
Jan 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft is happy |
Jan 30 21:25 |
| *kapipi (n=tor@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz |
The customer — not so much,. |
Jan 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz |
The repairer… well, no satisfaction there, is there…? I mean, fixing stuff that breaks isn’t as fun as doing creative things. |
Jan 30 21:26 |
| wasabi |
My only ideological position is ‘getting things done’. |
Jan 30 21:27 |
| wasabi |
Linux runs on my router, because it rocks there. It runs on my desktop, because I like it. I do development in C# because it saves me time. I run IIS for web servers, because it has features that save me time. I run Windows on user’s desktops, because it saves me time. I think WiMo is ‘decent’ because it saves me time. I think Android is awesome because I personally don’t need the features WiMo has, but I’m not going to pretend my requirement |
Jan 30 21:29 |
| wasabi |
s are the same as everybody’s. |
Jan 30 21:29 |
| wasabi |
(Android is awesome, btw) |
Jan 30 21:29 |
| schestowitz |
Why did you write it ‘off-line’? |
Jan 30 21:29 |
| wasabi |
I didn’t. I went to work. |
Jan 30 21:29 |
| wasabi |
I just got back and typed that. |
Jan 30 21:29 |
| schestowitz |
“Don’t get me wrong, I like Android, but…” |
Jan 30 21:29 |
| schestowitz |
Where have I heard this before..? |
Jan 30 21:29 |
| wasabi |
I’m not anti-patent because I cannot really imagine how I’d pay developers without making money, and I can’t imagine making money without patents. |
Jan 30 21:30 |
| schestowitz |
The issue I have is not with the opinions |
Jan 30 21:30 |
| schestowitz |
I’m not against you. |
Jan 30 21:30 |
| schestowitz |
But to see that you’re sort of abusing this site and vilifying it is clear. |
Jan 30 21:30 |
| wasabi |
I’m not pro-patent because I think lots about patent law sucks. |
Jan 30 21:30 |
| schestowitz |
Which means you’re here to cause trouble. |
Jan 30 21:30 |
| wasabi |
Hmm? |
Jan 30 21:30 |
| wasabi |
Man I have no idea where you get that. |
Jan 30 21:31 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman used to do the same thing. |
Jan 30 21:31 |
| schestowitz |
He’s an Opesuse lad… and he’s here because “he’s curious” or whatever. |
Jan 30 21:31 |
| wasabi |
It is curious. |
Jan 30 21:31 |
| MinceR |
most money is actually made without patents in the sw industry |
Jan 30 21:31 |
| schestowitz |
More like intelligence… informing OpenSUSE people if something here goes ‘amiss’ |
Jan 30 21:31 |
| benJIman |
Obviously everyone who disagrees with schestowitz is a troll. |
Jan 30 21:31 |
| MinceR |
it’s made by selling licenses and support. |
Jan 30 21:31 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: that’s not the point I made |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| wasabi |
MinceR: And those licenses are only required because people are not able to go and duplicate work. |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: see the log |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| wasabi |
MinceR: If they could just duplicate work, nobody would license. |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| twitter |
no benji but you and wasabi are trolls |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| MinceR |
wasabi: patents aren’t the main reason for that |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| wasabi |
sigh. |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| MinceR |
wasabi: code takes actual work to implement |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| schestowitz |
It’s when people come to IRC to disrupt, that’s when it aligns with the definition of Internet trolling. |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| MinceR |
wasabi: and the copying of code is copyright, not patents |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| wasabi |
MinceR: But the work is the cheap part. |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| wasabi |
MinceR: The idea is what is expensive. |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| MinceR |
except no, it isn’t |
Jan 30 21:32 |
| wasabi |
Sure it is. Look at FOSS. |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| wasabi |
There is tons of code. All done by volunteers. |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| wasabi |
If it’s not ‘cheap’, that would not be the case. |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| schestowitz |
Just because you use Linux doesn’t mean we’re some kind of hippies rejoicing in Woodstock |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| MinceR |
the way it is now is that sw patents are for ideas, not implementation |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| twitter |
so wasabi, how do free software people make money without patents? |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| MinceR |
so they don’t cover most of the work |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| wasabi |
twitter: They barely do. |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| twitter |
It’s a multi billion dollar industry. |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| MinceR |
wasabi: yes, i’m sure about 20 years of development on a project by lots of individuals and companies counts as “cheap” in your world |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| wasabi |
twitter: You have a hand ful of free software companies who are profitable, and none are profitable enough to drive any single product to absolute completion. |
Jan 30 21:33 |
| MinceR |
i wouldn’t call that “cheap” |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| twitter |
complete, like IIS and Winblows? |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| wasabi |
twitter: The ones who are massively profitable are profitable on the backs of their existing businesses, such as hardware or exclusive support contracts. |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
Apache is built by companies |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
They are paid for it |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| PetoKraus |
wasabi: yes, you might want to just get things done, and if you think Windows suits you, whatever |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| MinceR |
well, IIS is complete — a complete failure. :> |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
Only a fraction of the developers are not from companies |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| wasabi |
Works fine for me. |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| PetoKraus |
wasabi: i am not here to persuade you, you know |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
The Linux project is similar |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| wasabi |
Never said otherwise. |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| schestowitz |
They pool their resources for self gain.. yes, companies |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| twitter |
how do doctors, lawyers and engineers make money without patents? |
Jan 30 21:34 |
| wasabi |
Um. Because they provide a service that takes years to learn. |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| MinceR |
wasabi: also, how many individual submissions by volunteers would have to accumulate for you to not consider their sum “cheap”? |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| PetoKraus |
wasabi: though part of my work is to offer help to people (not saying offer help to you). And there I much rather offer help which is related to FLOSS than proprietary products |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| twitter |
and programmers don’t? |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| wasabi |
You cannot just copy somebodies surgical technique. You have to practice. |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| wasabi |
twitter: It’s a different problem space. |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| MinceR |
wow, just like software design |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| schestowitz |
True |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| schestowitz |
Cause you can duplicate code |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| MinceR |
and even development to some extent |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| schestowitz |
Should we restrict what’s possible? |
Jan 30 21:35 |
| MinceR |
i mean coding. |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| wasabi |
MinceR: software design is an abstract. The ability to ‘design software’ is not equivilent like ‘the ability to cut open somebody an operate’ |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| schestowitz |
Maybe we should ride horses and wagons again |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| twitter |
you can duplicate chunks of law books too, but that won’t solve problems. |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| schestowitz |
It makes jobs for the horse… and rickshaw people. |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| wasabi |
You have to read the law books. That’s where the worth is. |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| MinceR |
wasabi: so what? it’s still a difficult task with varying degrees of success |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| twitter |
there’s no difference between coding and other professions, except for M$’s monopoly market distortion. |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| trmanco |
big discussion going on here |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| wasabi |
I can’t answer everybody at once, either. |
Jan 30 21:36 |
| PetoKraus |
twitter: i’d concur |
Jan 30 21:37 |
| twitter |
you can’t answer any of this because you are trolling. spewing BS to waste time. |
Jan 30 21:37 |
| wasabi |
MinceR: The industries that you mentioned do have sub-industries that ARE analogous to programming. Such as medicine. |
Jan 30 21:37 |
| wasabi |
And they DO have patents. |
Jan 30 21:37 |
| PetoKraus |
there’s difference between jobs which create, and jobs which administer |
Jan 30 21:37 |
| MinceR |
the way it is now, sw patents apply to vague ideas — and everyone has lots of crazy ideas, that’s not where most of the value comes from. |
Jan 30 21:37 |
| wasabi |
The value comes in teh refinement of the idea. I’m going to use the office Ribbon as an example, though I think it is a highly charged example, that’ll probably get most of you mad at the wrong thing. |
Jan 30 21:38 |
| wasabi |
it would take me 4 days to rewrite the ribbon. |
Jan 30 21:38 |
| wasabi |
Because it’s dirt simple. |
Jan 30 21:38 |
| twitter |
the “ribbon” only makes people who use it angry. |
Jan 30 21:38 |
| MinceR |
lol ribbon |
Jan 30 21:38 |
| wasabi |
But it took MSR some 15 years of sitting around and failing over and over again with Office versions until they hit on that idea. |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| wasabi |
The ribbon makes technological professionals unhappy. |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| MinceR |
the ribbon is a usability failure |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| wasabi |
Normal users find it useful. |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| wasabi |
Technological professionals are a minority. |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| schestowitz |
Ribbon is Corel ripoff |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| schestowitz |
That’s not an ‘idea’ |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| schestowitz |
All ideas are inspired by inputi |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| schestowitz |
Input is another person’s output |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| schestowitz |
Or nature’s output |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| wasabi |
Never said otherwise. |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| MinceR |
professionals make up most of the requirements and most of the profit |
Jan 30 21:39 |
| wasabi |
Oh, I disagree completely. I buy MS licenses in the hundreds. I buy them for office workers. Secretaries. Marketing people. |
Jan 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz |
wasabi: Microsoft is pressured to harp R&D this and that |
Jan 30 21:40 |
| wasabi |
People who don’t even know what RAM is. |
Jan 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz |
They are given speech talking points about this nonsense |
Jan 30 21:40 |
| wasabi |
Most of these people really like the ribbon. |
Jan 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz |
Ribbon is about perceived value |
Jan 30 21:40 |
| MinceR |
wasabi: compare them to the cost of more specialized, more “professional” software. |
Jan 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz |
It’s rubbish |
Jan 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz |
It takes a 12 year old to think of it |
Jan 30 21:40 |
| wasabi |
Then why did MS do it first? |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| wasabi |
And not a 12 yo? |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| MinceR |
because only they use people on that mental level to design ui-s |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| wasabi |
it *is* a simple idea. It *is*. I’m not claiming otherwise. |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| schestowitz |
Vista… WOW!…”we invested $6bn” (in this rubbish) |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| wasabi |
But simple ideas take time to come up with. |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| MinceR |
others use skilled professionals instead |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| tessier |
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/65… |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| wasabi |
Time is something you pay people for. |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| schestowitz |
Spending $6 in making something worse? Oh wait… cause they binned Longhorn |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| tessier |
Boycott Novell gets a mention |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| MinceR |
or others came up with the ribbon and quickly realized how retarded it is |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| tessier |
The site seems to be becoming influential |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| MinceR |
and didn’t develop it further |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| wasabi |
It might be the most simple idea in the world, but if I have to pay 30 engineers to sit around and drink Coke for 4 years until they think of it. |
Jan 30 21:41 |
| wasabi |
Then I have to pay them. |
Jan 30 21:42 |
| MinceR |
they have marketers, not engineers |
Jan 30 21:42 |
| wasabi |
Pssh. |
Jan 30 21:42 |
| schestowitz |
tessier: I saw this article before and didn’t notice us mentioned |
Jan 30 21:42 |
| wasabi |
Marketers are human engineers. :0 |
Jan 30 21:42 |
| wasabi |
Good ones anyways. |
Jan 30 21:43 |
| schestowitz |
Marketing is not a profession |
Jan 30 21:43 |
| schestowitz |
It’s deception |
Jan 30 21:43 |
| wasabi |
sigh. |
Jan 30 21:43 |
| schestowitz |
Much like other redundant occupations |
Jan 30 21:43 |
| MinceR |
wasabi: you really have no respect for engineering, do you? |
Jan 30 21:43 |
| wasabi |
Are you that angry with the way the world, and the human race, work? |
Jan 30 21:43 |
| schestowitz |
Including idiots who ‘speculate’ currencies and push papers around |
Jan 30 21:43 |
| schestowitz |
Marketing is about subversion of market forces |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| wasabi |
MinceR: I have tons of respect. I am an engineer. |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| schestowitz |
It’s about trying to sell things to people who do not need them |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| wasabi |
MinceR: But I recognize no normal people will ever know about what I design until I get them to notice. |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| schestowitz |
It’s not the natural buyers that marketing targets |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| schestowitz |
it’s the indifferent people who need to be brainwash |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| schestowitz |
The same goes for selling a way |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| schestowitz |
*a war |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| wasabi |
Sounds like living in a bubble to me. |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| wasabi |
Most of the people I know are not engineers. |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| schestowitz |
That’s marketing too. The foreign affairs are handles by the PR industry |
Jan 30 21:44 |
| wasabi |
They do not respond to arguments about technical superiority. |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| wasabi |
because the mostly don’t care. |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| schestowitz |
So they are zombies |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| MinceR |
if you take a look at the world, you’ll see that there’s plenty to be angry about regarding how the human race works |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| schestowitz |
They respond to arbitrary messages |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| wasabi |
So, is that were you stop? |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| wasabi |
“They are zombies.” |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| wasabi |
You see, I said very early up front, I like to solve problems. |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| schestowitz |
A curious person assesses things |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| wasabi |
What are you proposing to do about these zombies? |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| schestowitz |
A passive person listens to markleters. |
Jan 30 21:45 |
| schestowitz |
Such a person is /told/ what to think |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| wasabi |
Me, i don’t find that they are zombies. They are human beings. I want to know how to work with them. |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| wasabi |
How to do things that benefit them. |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| wasabi |
Because I cannot cahnge them. |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| schestowitz |
It’s only choice and independence is changing channels or friend |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| schestowitz |
*ds |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| wasabi |
It’s presumptious of me to think that I am better than everybody. So I don’t. |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| schestowitz |
You aren’t |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| wasabi |
They are just different. Different personality types. |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| schestowitz |
Neither am I |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| wasabi |
You just labeled them zombies. |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| wasabi |
That sounds like you are. |
Jan 30 21:46 |
| schestowitz |
But the aspiration is to improve things for everyone |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| schestowitz |
And you’re here trying to persuade me otherwise |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| wasabi |
You are going to improve things by making everybody an engineer? |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| wasabi |
Sounds unreasonable. |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| schestowitz |
You came to this channel hoping to change the agenda. |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| schestowitz |
I don’t intrude Windows sites |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| wasabi |
This is a single opinion channel/ |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| schestowitz |
I don’t like Britney Spears, but I don’t go to her fan sites to aggravate |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| wasabi |
If so, I’ll just leave. But that seems like a bubble to me. |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| wasabi |
And not useful. |
Jan 30 21:47 |
| schestowitz |
Not quite |
Jan 30 21:48 |
| schestowitz |
But I see you trying to damage us |
Jan 30 21:48 |
| wasabi |
Sitting around with people who already agree with you, reinforcing your own opinions? I don’t do that. I go out and engage. |
Jan 30 21:48 |
| schestowitz |
I saw it in Digg too |
Jan 30 21:48 |
| schestowitz |
Why? |
Jan 30 21:48 |
| wasabi |
Um. Because the goal is to challenge my own opinions. |
Jan 30 21:48 |
| wasabi |
And challenge theirs. And challenge them to challenge me. No self-improvement can be made otherwise. |
Jan 30 21:48 |
| schestowitz |
You can present the views in a platform that’s receptive in the sense that it is there to listen |
Jan 30 21:49 |
| schestowitz |
Which is fine |
Jan 30 21:49 |
| schestowitz |
But you try to hurt this platform |
Jan 30 21:49 |
| wasabi |
I don’t find that helpful. All the successful campaigns of ideas in the history of the human race are forced on people who disagree. |
Jan 30 21:49 |
| schestowitz |
That’s like me walking into a mosque and telling people “hey, don’t go in there… it’s horrible inside” |
Jan 30 21:49 |
| schestowitz |
A better way is this: |
Jan 30 21:49 |
| wasabi |
Segregation is only gone because people stood up for their rights, and protested in front of people who did not care. |
Jan 30 21:49 |
| schestowitz |
Make a platform where you can present your stance and hope to have people subscribe their attention |
Jan 30 21:50 |
| schestowitz |
I, for one, read some Microsoft blogs |
Jan 30 21:50 |
| wasabi |
I don’t. |
Jan 30 21:50 |
| wasabi |
Heh. |
Jan 30 21:50 |
| schestowitz |
I don’t participate but I listen and learn from them |
Jan 30 21:50 |
| schestowitz |
If I want to criticise them, I do it in my platform |
Jan 30 21:50 |
| wasabi |
I don’t read any MS literature of any sort. |
Jan 30 21:50 |
| wasabi |
I’m not that receptive to advertising. |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| wasabi |
Actually I mostly don’t have time. |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
Apropos: |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
” COLA is not a physical location, so they have had to adapt their methods |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
so that they can do an on-line version of what was described in the prior |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
paragraph. A key method used by anti-Linux propagandist to attack Linux, |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
its users, sysadmins, developers, advocates and those who have come to |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
COLA to lean about Linux. is a form of propaganda known as disinformation. |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
One of their favorite version of disinformation is known as FUD. |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
7.3 A Common FUD of the Anti-Linux Propagandists |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
An example of dishonesty of the anti-Linux propagandists is their common |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
claim that the Linux proponents in COLA oppose the use of any other |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
operating system. They also would have you believe that the Linux |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
proponents in COLA oppose everyone who does not use Linux all the time. |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
Those are some of the lies that they use to try to discredit Linux users |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
who post in COLA. |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
The truth is that a user of one or more operating systems other than Linux |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
are not opposed in COLA for that reason alone. Many of the Linux Advocates |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
in COLA have experience on many other operating systems besides Linux. |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
Many do use multiple operating systems on a regular basis. It is due to |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
this experience that any disinformation regarding the capabilities of |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
Linux, or that of other operating systems are easily detected by the Linux |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
advocates. |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
It is not difficult to tell the difference between an anti-Linux |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
Propagandist and a true advocates of another operating system. Occasional |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
mention of other operating systems is fine. However, it is the frequent or |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
continuous promotion of other operating systems that turns a welcome |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
poster into an unwelcome troll or anti-Linux propagandist. |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
7.6 Trespasser Disinformation Tactics |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
This is a list of the disinformation tactics that the that the anti-Linux |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
propagandists who post in COLA have been using. All of these tactics have |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
been used in COLA by the anti-Linux propagandists against the Linux |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
advocates and the rest of the COLA readership to further the cause of the |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
anti-Linux pro |
Jan 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz |
“If COLA were a physical location like a building where those who would |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
advocate the growth of the Linux operating systems and the Linux community |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
gather, the anti-Linux propagandists would be raiding that building. They |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
would be vandalizing the building, painting graffiti on the walls, |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
defecating and urinating on the floors and furniture, breaking down the |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
doors, setting fire to the building and physically assaulting the resident |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
Linux advocates and the visitors who happen to be in the building at the |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
time of the raid.” |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| wasabi |
I’m not actually going to read any of that. |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
So why “piss on us”? |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| wasabi |
Can you paraphrase into a form suitable for IRC? |
Jan 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz |
You can spray your apartment to say you don’t like what we say. That’s not vandalism. |
Jan 30 21:53 |
| schestowitz |
trmanco: Sermo Malifer is flatfish Stewart.. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient… |
Jan 30 21:57 |
| trmanco |
I plonked him |
Jan 30 21:57 |
| schestowitz |
I put up a post |
Jan 30 21:58 |
| trmanco |
I plonk the majority of Windows users |
Jan 30 21:58 |
| tessier |
http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/01/… |
Jan 30 22:02 |
| tessier |
BN is references in the first comment |
Jan 30 22:02 |
| schestowitz |
Cool. |
Jan 30 22:04 |
| schestowitz |
I like Ken’s blog |
Jan 30 22:04 |
| schestowitz |
Oh, the comment is from Winter |
Jan 30 22:06 |
| schestowitz |
He is (was) very prolific in Groklaw. |
Jan 30 22:06 |
| schestowitz |
Google-backed tool detects Net filtering, blocking < http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595… > |
Jan 30 22:07 |
| MinceR |
http://www.samefacts.com/archives/torture_/2009… |
Jan 30 22:08 |
| schestowitz |
*LOL* http://www.vsubhash.com/images/linux… |
Jan 30 22:09 |
| MinceR |
old but funny |
Jan 30 22:09 |
| schestowitz |
No eye for an eye? |
Jan 30 22:10 |
| schestowitz |
“Since most bullies are also cowards, I suspect that the years of maltreatment the Bush Administration inflicted on innocent Afghani peasants to get them to make false confessions will not be necessary to get Bush and his cronies to confess.” |
Jan 30 22:10 |
| schestowitz |
Oh, so no waterboarding for George then, I gues… |
Jan 30 22:10 |
| schestowitz |
“So now is the moment for the President-elect to confute his critics, and demonstrate that he has the toughness needed to deal with the Islamofascist threat, no matter who its agents may be.” So will he criminalise them? |
Jan 30 22:11 |
| *jose__ (n=jose@98.64.49.148) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 30 22:11 |
| MinceR |
read on :> |
Jan 30 22:14 |
| trmanco |
schestowitz, was that real? |
Jan 30 22:16 |
| MinceR |
it’s satirical |
Jan 30 22:16 |
| MinceR |
like the original “modest proposal” |
Jan 30 22:16 |
| trmanco |
hmm, ok |
Jan 30 22:17 |
| schestowitz |
Incompetence in action (MS partner): Comcast Screws Up And Targets Innocent Customer In P2P Dragnet < http://techdirt.com/articles/2009… > |
Jan 30 22:18 |
| schestowitz |
Whoa. NEC to Lay off 20,000 as Economy Bites < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158623/nec_to… > |
Jan 30 22:24 |
| MinceR |
http://www.credoaction.com/comics/2009/01/in… |
Jan 30 22:24 |
| wasabi |
I had no idea 20,000 people worked for NEC |
Jan 30 22:27 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, same here re: proportion/scale of workforce. The company is a dinosaur though. |
Jan 30 22:29 |
| schestowitz |
Samsung hs/had 700,000 |
Jan 30 22:29 |
| schestowitz |
Ubuntu burial for poor man << http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Artic… >> |
Jan 30 22:33 |
| MinceR |
why even bury people? |
Jan 30 22:34 |
| MinceR |
cremate them |
Jan 30 22:34 |
| MinceR |
or study them for science |
Jan 30 22:35 |
| schestowitz |
Religion does not like this idea. |
Jan 30 22:36 |
| schestowitz |
“What about the souls…” you know? |
Jan 30 22:36 |
| MinceR |
the souls are supposed to be already departed |
Jan 30 22:36 |
| schestowitz |
Cremated too? |
Jan 30 22:36 |
| MinceR |
unless there’s a large amount of people practicing ancient egyptian faith :> |
Jan 30 22:36 |
| MinceR |
at the point of death |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz |
Well, pyramid slavery and all… |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz |
Did you see the body they pulled from the glacier the other day? |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz |
Over 5000 years old… |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| MinceR |
i’m not sure |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| MinceR |
probably not |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz |
Almost old enough to scare those who believe the earth is no more than 6000 years old. |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| MinceR |
 |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz |
I think it was in the Reg |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz |
Wait |
Jan 30 22:37 |
| MinceR |
i though the one in the Reg wasn’t found recently |
Jan 30 22:38 |
| MinceR |
only analyzed more thoroughly recently |
Jan 30 22:38 |
| MinceR |
to find the cause of death |
Jan 30 22:38 |
| schestowitz |
I was actually shocked last month when someone here in IRC said the teachers are forbidden from telling truth about Grand Canyon |
Jan 30 22:38 |
| MinceR |
don’t you know the world was created last Thursday? :> |
Jan 30 22:38 |
| schestowitz |
They are not permitted to tell kids how old the canyon is |
Jan 30 22:38 |
| schestowitz |
Wait.. |
Jan 30 22:38 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.theregister.co.uk/200… |
Jan 30 22:39 |
| schestowitz |
That’s the dude |
Jan 30 22:39 |
| MinceR |
whose frozen body was found preserved in an Italian glacier in 1991 |
Jan 30 22:39 |
| schestowitz |
Windows 7: Not Quite The Change We Need < http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fasterforward… > |
Jan 30 22:39 |
| MinceR |
s/^/”/; s/$/”/ |
Jan 30 22:40 |
| schestowitz |
I didn’t see the comment, but maybe the Vole has already unleashed Turfers on him… |
Jan 30 22:40 |
| MinceR |
vista7 might continue the change we need |
Jan 30 22:40 |
| MinceR |
that was already helped by vista |
Jan 30 22:40 |
| schestowitz |
Yes |
Jan 30 22:40 |
| MinceR |
that is, the marginalization of windows |
Jan 30 22:40 |
| schestowitz |
I know |
Jan 30 22:40 |
| schestowitz |
Windows for -$50 |
Jan 30 22:40 |
| schestowitz |
“Just take it, take it!” |
Jan 30 22:40 |
| schestowitz |
“And buy Office for $99 as addon” |
Jan 30 22:41 |
| MinceR |
|
Jan 30 22:41 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft may be the next Symantec |
Jan 30 22:41 |
| MinceR |
“i’ll take ten billion then. that’ll be $500 billion, thank you very much.” |
Jan 30 22:41 |
| schestowitz |
I suppose you heard the news about Symantec |
Jan 30 22:41 |
| MinceR |
i haven’t, but their expertise is legendary |
Jan 30 22:42 |
| MinceR |
at least their hungarian distributors keep saying the most uninformed and stupid things publicly all the time |
Jan 30 22:42 |
| schestowitz |
$500bn, eh? Who would loan this money |
Jan 30 22:42 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft must have about $5bn left in the bank ATM |
Jan 30 22:42 |
| MinceR |
the USian government, of course |
Jan 30 22:42 |
| schestowitz |
The Foundry of Gates is another matter |
Jan 30 22:43 |
| MinceR |
money is created out of nothing anyway |
Jan 30 22:43 |
| schestowitz |
That’s where they StashIt! |
Jan 30 22:43 |
| *jose (n=jose@98.64.49.148) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 30 22:43 |
| schestowitz |
MinceR: money is printed |
Jan 30 22:43 |
| schestowitz |
Either as bills or as balance sheet |
Jan 30 22:43 |
| MinceR |
most of it actually isn’t |
Jan 30 22:43 |
| MinceR |
it’s created in banks |
Jan 30 22:43 |
| schestowitz |
Some people lost all their savings, which were tied to stock |
Jan 30 22:43 |
| MinceR |
afaik even balance sheets are optional now |
Jan 30 22:44 |
| *jose__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
Jan 30 22:44 |
| schestowitz |
Other people have possessions like houses. Their worth dropped, but they maintain possession. Less fortunate ones have a mortgage so they lose the house or rent it now. |
Jan 30 22:44 |
| schestowitz |
Let me find s/t |
Jan 30 22:44 |
| jose |
schestowitz, I fell asleep thinking about something before.. I think I’ll clean up and then present “part 1″. |
Jan 30 22:45 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.markshuttleworth.co… |
Jan 30 22:46 |
| jose |
I’d prefer to do part 2 before posting part 1 but I think I can clean something up that I won’t want to undo. |
Jan 30 22:46 |
| schestowitz |
He said something along the lines of, “what does it mean to have money in the bank if the banks go bankrupt?” he’s good at macro-economics. What did he study again? Was it business? |
Jan 30 22:46 |
| schestowitz |
jose: did you see the post about RMS quote on mono? |
Jan 30 22:47 |
| schestowitz |
RMS: “”[…] we know that Microsoft is getting patents on some features of C#. So I think it’s dangerous to use C#, and it may be dangerous to use Mono.” |
Jan 30 22:47 |
| jose |
not yet.. i was sleeping |
Jan 30 22:47 |
| schestowitz |
I found this while catching up with hundreds of comments in Reddit |
Jan 30 22:47 |
| *MinceR is waiting for the end of central regulation practiced by microsoft |
Jan 30 22:48 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html ““Microsoft’s perspective is best reflected by Bob Herbold, Chief Operating Officer, to whom the CFO reports. Bob very sincerely replied, “Bill, everyone is doing it.” “ |
Jan 30 22:49 |
| schestowitz |
Karl Marx, Das Kapital, 1867: ” Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalised…” |
Jan 30 22:49 |
| schestowitz |
Intel Gets Educational with Classmate PCs < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/01/30/inte… >. Education????????????????????/ Or just more bu$ine$$. |
Jan 30 22:51 |
| schestowitz |
Spot the Orwellianism in “Unlimited Potential” [to corrupt young minds] |
Jan 30 22:51 |
| schestowitz |
“Unlimited Potential” is in some sense the public identity of EDGI, for which Microsoft has variants with similar acronym and “project Marshall” (Microsoft calls this Memorandum of Understanding” in public) |
Jan 30 22:53 |
| jose |
i forgot to post this last time i was on.. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bill-Melinda-G… |
Jan 30 23:00 |
| schestowitz |
Tell them to sod off |
Jan 30 23:01 |
| schestowitz |
Are B&M still investing in Nigerian oil that kills kids? |
Jan 30 23:01 |
| schestowitz |
I case you didn’t see the videos: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01/02/th… |
Jan 30 23:02 |
| schestowitz |
Wow. I’ve just watched carefully the latter part again. |
Jan 30 23:04 |
| schestowitz |
So he’s injecting investments into big pharama (billions) and then uses his ‘donations’ to feed those companies, which in turn brings him profit. Geez, this is criminal stuff. It’s like making people ill so that you can sell them medicine and call yourself a Saint. |
Jan 30 23:05 |
| schestowitz |
“”Bill and Melinda Gates said Friday they were encouraging government and business leaders to keep investing in health and development in poor countries — especially during the global financial crisis. |
Jan 30 23:08 |
| schestowitz |
Of course… |
Jan 30 23:08 |
| schestowitz |
How else would big pharmas make money? |
Jan 30 23:08 |
| schestowitz |
Gates is an investor in big pharmas |
Jan 30 23:08 |
| schestowitz |
They need to ensure governments give money to those phramas |
Jan 30 23:08 |
| schestowitz |
B&M need $$ |
Jan 30 23:08 |
| jose |
like windows, claim you are working on the X that powers the world, but don’t say how you are keeping others from contributing similarly and more. |
Jan 30 23:11 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, lying without guilt is an art |
Jan 30 23:14 |
| schestowitz |
I’ll wrtite about this later |
Jan 30 23:14 |
| schestowitz |
Bear in mind that B&M also fund the very govts they urge to pay pharmas here. |
Jan 30 23:15 |
| schestowitz |
So the money in this cycle comes mostly from exploiting the poor. |
Jan 30 23:15 |
| *yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-71-188-245-175.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell |
Jan 30 23:27 |
| yuhong |
Last time I talked about DR, SCP, and MS-DOS, my point was that MS did not get big by innovating. |
Jan 30 23:28 |
| MinceR |
and that’s correct |
Jan 30 23:29 |
| MinceR |
(unless we argue that m$ got big by innovating in the field of crime) |
Jan 30 23:30 |
| yuhong |
Sadly it deloved into whether MS did anything illegal here. |
Jan 30 23:30 |
| yuhong |
MS didn’t and even if it did, that is not my point. |
Jan 30 23:30 |
| yuhong |
MS got big because DR dropped the ball, not because DOS was innovative. |
Jan 30 23:31 |
| MinceR |
they did and sometimes they got caught |
Jan 30 23:31 |
| MinceR |
but many of the evil things they did were legal |
Jan 30 23:31 |
| schestowitz |
yuhong: revisionism from you again? |
Jan 30 23:31 |
| schestowitz |
The USDOJ disagrees with you |
Jan 30 23:31 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft was found guilty many times |
Jan 30 23:31 |
| yuhong |
I am talking about back in 1981. |
Jan 30 23:31 |
| yuhong |
the USDOJ investigations happened much later. |
Jan 30 23:32 |
| MinceR |
investigations often investigate the past |
Jan 30 23:33 |
| schestowitz |
http://linuxmednews.com/1233253455 ( Fedral Government To Blow Little Guy Out of the Water?) |
Jan 30 23:33 |
| yuhong |
Yes, but USDOJ never invesigated MS back in 1981. |
Jan 30 23:33 |
| yuhong |
I am talking about MS-DOS 1.x/original IBM era here. |
Jan 30 23:33 |
| yuhong |
Not the Windows 3.x era, I know that by then USDOJ was investegating MS thanks to AARD. |
Jan 30 23:34 |
| yuhong |
And other things like that. |
Jan 30 23:34 |
| yuhong |
Anyway, whether it was illegal was beside my point. |
Jan 30 23:35 |
| yuhong |
My point is that MS did not get big by innovating. |
Jan 30 23:36 |
| yuhong |
In contrast, Google got big because it had PageRank. |
Jan 30 23:36 |
| yuhong |
The things MS did in 1980-1981 was not illegal. |
Jan 30 23:37 |
| yuhong |
I know that MS begin to be invetigated by the DOJ in the early 1990s. |
Jan 30 23:38 |
| yuhong |
Get it now? |
Jan 30 23:38 |
| *yuhong has quit (“ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]“) |
Jan 30 23:39 |
| MinceR |
lol |
Jan 30 23:39 |
| schestowitz |
He comes here every now again from Seattle |
Jan 30 23:40 |
| schestowitz |
he does the same in Roughly Drafted and sites that are openly opposed to Microsoft’s crimes |
Jan 30 23:40 |
| MinceR |
what does he want to prove anyway? |
Jan 30 23:40 |
| schestowitz |
You should see him when ‘s going at it |
Jan 30 23:41 |
| schestowitz |
How much he loves Vista.. |
Jan 30 23:41 |
| schestowitz |
How Microsoft doesn’t break the law and so on.. |
Jan 30 23:41 |
| MinceR |
|
Jan 30 23:42 |
| schestowitz |
I thought he had lived in the east, but no.. |
Jan 30 23:42 |
| schestowitz |
The English is llmited and he runs away when I ask about his location |
Jan 30 23:42 |
| schestowitz |
Hold on.. |
Jan 30 23:42 |
| schestowitz |
It’s better to show than to tell, so… http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09/m… |
Jan 30 23:43 |
| schestowitz |
“There was also news that left a hint of egg on some Redmond faces. Specifically, citing a confidential memo from Microsoft that was used as evidence in antitrust proceedings, an article on Boycott Novell charged that a Microsoft “task force” lobbied Wal-Mart “ |
Jan 30 23:43 |
| schestowitz |
“More than 1,400 Diggs and 300 comments greeted that one on Digg, even as bloggers also pondered a post from CNet’s Matt Asay titled “Facts Behind Microsoft’s Anti-Linux Campaign.”” |
Jan 30 23:44 |
| schestowitz |
Both of these are BN posts… http://www.linuxinsider.com/r… |
Jan 30 23:44 |
| schestowitz |
I have another Intel one coming tomorrow |
Jan 30 23:44 |
| MinceR |
so he’s a drive-by troll :> |
Jan 30 23:44 |
| schestowitz |
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_on… It’ll make LinuxToday FP. |
Jan 30 23:44 |
| jose |
roy, i’m not happy with how the draft sounds.. I don’t think i’ll be able to do very much more until sunday earliest. |
Jan 30 23:44 |
| schestowitz |
wasabi might want to troll this one too, as he did earlier today |
Jan 30 23:45 |
| schestowitz |
I’ll post it tomorrow. Headline: Bill Gates: “This huge [Linux] Driver Group Scares Me.” |
Jan 30 23:45 |
| schestowitz |
Someone did the text for nme |
Jan 30 23:45 |
| schestowitz |
“If it’s a scanned image I just type it up…for me it seems faster to do that. If it’s already OCRd, then I copy the text and paste it into gedit, and then compare the two side by side and correct the OCR mistakes. The hardest part is making sure the mistakes in the original text are left intact.” We do the same thing in BN… |
Jan 30 23:46 |
| schestowitz |
But I use Kate, not gedit (GNOME.. meh) |
Jan 30 23:46 |
| schestowitz |
She’s using Free software (Scribus). Scribus would be delighted to know. I was in touch with them before (USENET). |
Jan 30 23:47 |
| schestowitz |
Tomorrow’s is Plaintiff’s Exhibit 6567 |
Jan 30 23:47 |
| schestowitz |
jose: no rush, thanks. |
Jan 30 23:47 |
| jose |
thanks.. maybe i’ll email you an update. |
Jan 30 23:48 |
| schestowitz |
Katherine Noyes cites us quite a few time… good stuff.. http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstor… |
Jan 30 23:48 |
| schestowitz |
Firefox gets a Live Search add-in, but does anyone care? http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/01/f… |
Jan 30 23:49 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft brags about it as though it contributes to FOSS |
Jan 30 23:49 |
| schestowitz |
It’s like putting a Nike ad in a squash court and then claiming credit for ‘decorating’ the place |
Jan 30 23:50 |
| schestowitz |
Poor martionette… http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/0… … was handed a mess to deal with. He can start by cleaning up the fascistic laws (“amendments”) and prosecuting Bucheney |
Jan 30 23:51 |
| schestowitz |
jose: Funny comments here < http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?… >. Seen em yet? |
Jan 30 23:52 |
| jose |
8 out of 10 terrorists are smarter… |
Jan 30 23:55 |
| schestowitz |
They are not always stupid |
Jan 30 23:56 |
| schestowitz |
In the US, people who are against the invasion of Iraq are labeled terrorists too |
Jan 30 23:56 |
| schestowitz |
This was in the news some months ago |
Jan 30 23:56 |
ᶃ Gemini Space
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