IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 27th, 2009 - Part 2

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2009-02-28 05:02:26 UTC
Modified: 2009-02-28 05:02:26 UTC

schestowitz	Linux doesn't do that	Feb 27 01:19
wispygalaxy	yep, we learned about communication channels and psychology in my advertising class	Feb 27 01:19
Balrog_	well, some of the iphone advertising has been quite obvious. Like demonstrating apps	Feb 27 01:19
schestowitz	It's not compatible with how people are taught to measure stuff	Feb 27 01:19
Balrog_	of couse, there's other advertising that's different	Feb 27 01:19
schestowitz	More expensive = better	Feb 27 01:20
schestowitz	Cheap and freedom mixed together to cheapen the value of human mrights	Feb 27 01:20
wispygalaxy	nice phone, pk. my dad has a nokia, too, but it has no text messaging	Feb 27 01:20
schestowitz	Aren't phones mostly about making calls?	Feb 27 01:21
wispygalaxy	thats what my dad says lol	Feb 27 01:21
PetoKraus	schestowitz: yes	Feb 27 01:21
wispygalaxy	but my sis begs to differ	Feb 27 01:21
schestowitz	You might as well rename the gadgets then.	Feb 27 01:21
PetoKraus	that's what I use my phone for. Calls, texts	Feb 27 01:21
Balrog_	ask the inventor of cell phones	Feb 27 01:21
Balrog_	:P	Feb 27 01:21
Balrog_	he's marketing a phone for senior citizens	Feb 27 01:21
PetoKraus	though i'd like to get something I could jot down appointments in to	Feb 27 01:21
wispygalaxy	my dad wants the jitterbug	Feb 27 01:21
PetoKraus	and make it sync with sunbird	Feb 27 01:22
schestowitz	Yeah.. like people marketed cigarettes fo women	Feb 27 01:22
wispygalaxy	malboro	Feb 27 01:22
PetoKraus	oh don't get me started on that	Feb 27 01:22
schestowitz	The "lighting of the totch" stunt	Feb 27 01:22
wispygalaxy	thats on my test too roy	Feb 27 01:22
PetoKraus	cigarettes look AWFUL on 90% of girls	Feb 27 01:22
schestowitz	Turning women to cough cough smokers	Feb 27 01:22
schestowitz	For profit	Feb 27 01:22
Balrog_	http://counternotions.com/200...	Feb 27 01:22
wispygalaxy	you are like a study guide roy lol	Feb 27 01:22
schestowitz	They used the projection of images standing for power	Feb 27 01:23
schestowitz	Now it's beer	Feb 27 01:23
PetoKraus	gah	Feb 27 01:23
PetoKraus	beer's okay	Feb 27 01:23
PetoKraus	let them have beer	Feb 27 01:23
schestowitz	The message that women who drink beer control their man or whatever better	Feb 27 01:23
PetoKraus	but cigarettes	Feb 27 01:23
PetoKraus	NO	Feb 27 01:23
Balrog_	heh beer	Feb 27 01:23
Balrog_	the ads are everywhere	Feb 27 01:23
Balrog_	I don't drink it ... lol	Feb 27 01:23
PetoKraus	i like beer	Feb 27 01:23
schestowitz	It's all perceptional and totally irrational	Feb 27 01:23
Balrog_	I know people who do ... many	Feb 27 01:23
Balrog_	yeah the beer ads are bad when it comes to taht	Feb 27 01:23
schestowitz	Same with drugs...	Feb 27 01:24
Balrog_	that *	Feb 27 01:24
wispygalaxy	my granny smoked cigs for 50+ years, but she died last year of ovarian cancer. she didnt have any other cancer	Feb 27 01:24
schestowitz	People like beer, but not other drugs	Feb 27 01:24
PetoKraus	though i can't drink much... my stomach doesn't like it and likes to talk to me often the next day	Feb 27 01:24
PetoKraus	whiskey or wine is better on this accord	Feb 27 01:24
schestowitz	Beverages become a cultutal/social/psychological thing.	Feb 27 01:24
PetoKraus	:)	Feb 27 01:24
PetoKraus	yes	Feb 27 01:24
PetoKraus	shisha's	Feb 27 01:24
PetoKraus	...	Feb 27 01:24
Balrog_	cigs can cause any type of cancer :[	Feb 27 01:24
PetoKraus	i mean, it's retarded	Feb 27 01:24
schestowitz	Many addictive substances can.	Feb 27 01:24
wispygalaxy	true balrog	Feb 27 01:25
PetoKraus	my mother's smoker, my uncle is dense smoker, my grandma is really heavy smoker	Feb 27 01:25
Balrog_	I know someone who had bladder cancer from that ... he died from an aneurism eventually	Feb 27 01:25
schestowitz	Foods too	Feb 27 01:25
PetoKraus	i've had so much passive smoking in my life	Feb 27 01:25
Balrog_	more like chemicals in foods	Feb 27 01:25
schestowitz	Some of the stuff they put in fast food chains and snacks might be more harmful than drugs	Feb 27 01:25
wispygalaxy	smoking is bigger in my family than drinking	Feb 27 01:25
schestowitz	By drugs I mean alcohol too	Feb 27 01:25
PetoKraus	that i promised myself i'm not going to have any smoke in my lungs voluntarily	Feb 27 01:25
Balrog_	well you don't do it	Feb 27 01:25
schestowitz	Microwaves are a hazard too.. cellphones	Feb 27 01:25
PetoKraus	well	Feb 27 01:25
Balrog_	they're all hazards	Feb 27 01:25
PetoKraus	we don't know yet what does it cause	Feb 27 01:25
PetoKraus	it's hard to tell, it's too short	Feb 27 01:26
Balrog_	theoretically wi-fi is a hazard as it uses microwaves	Feb 27 01:26
PetoKraus	take for example some pesticides	Feb 27 01:26
schestowitz	We don't know degree of impact	Feb 27 01:26
wispygalaxy	im using a wired connection, luckily	Feb 27 01:26
schestowitz	Who would fund it?	Feb 27 01:26
Balrog_	heh ... organophosphates	Feb 27 01:26
PetoKraus	it took 30 years for them to troddle down the fields in water	Feb 27 01:26
schestowitz	Research is usually funded in favour of the profiteer	Feb 27 01:26
PetoKraus	and from water to people's food	Feb 27 01:26
schestowitz	So expect results to be biased in favour of the merchants.	Feb 27 01:26
PetoKraus	and from there -> delayed neuropathy and intermediate disease	Feb 27 01:26
Balrog_	some say organophosphate pesticides are responsible for BSE	Feb 27 01:27
wispygalaxy	reminds me of ms-funded "studies"	Feb 27 01:27
PetoKraus	well they could be	Feb 27 01:27
PetoKraus	i mean	Feb 27 01:27
PetoKraus	organophosphates are nerve gasses	Feb 27 01:27
Balrog_	they're systemic agents	Feb 27 01:27
Balrog_	should be banned	Feb 27 01:27
PetoKraus	they are	Feb 27 01:27
Balrog_	like DDT	Feb 27 01:27
PetoKraus	ddt is innocent	Feb 27 01:28
PetoKraus	ddt was human mistake	Feb 27 01:28
Balrog_	well DDT is banned	Feb 27 01:28
Balrog_	organophosphates should be banned as well	Feb 27 01:28
PetoKraus	it was stupid idea to try kill diseases with DDT	Feb 27 01:28
PetoKraus	OP's are banned in the UK, i think	Feb 27 01:28
Balrog_	(I'm not saying that DDT should be banned)	Feb 27 01:28
Balrog_	but not in the US.	Feb 27 01:28
PetoKraus	i'd have to grab my lecture notes	Feb 27 01:28
Balrog_	:[	Feb 27 01:28
wispygalaxy	do you guys eat tuna?	Feb 27 01:28
wispygalaxy	im kinda scared of it...	Feb 27 01:28
PetoKraus	the problem with OP's is that they are inherently very very toxic	Feb 27 01:28
Balrog_	I don't recommend it and don't eat tuna	Feb 27 01:29
Balrog_	so that's my take	Feb 27 01:29
schestowitz	OLPC users discover free WiFi at Rwandan Airport < http://www.cheaplaptops.org.uk/20090225/olpc-u... >	Feb 27 01:29
Balrog_	I don't like it either :P	Feb 27 01:29
wispygalaxy	i feel bad for the dolphins caught :'(	Feb 27 01:29
PetoKraus	it's like... okay, let's substitute one oxygen for sulphur and hope the human who ingests it will piss it out sooner than it changes back	Feb 27 01:29
PetoKraus	otherwise -> eek.	Feb 27 01:29
schestowitz	wispygalaxy: yes, that too. Most brand just put the dolphin safe label, but can you believe it?	Feb 27 01:30
wispygalaxy	heh	Feb 27 01:30
schestowitz	"dolphin safe[ty net]"	Feb 27 01:30
wispygalaxy	i want to believe, but i cant	Feb 27 01:30
Balrog_	wispygalaxy: I'm careful about mercury content	Feb 27 01:30
PetoKraus	with tuna?	Feb 27 01:30
wispygalaxy	good balrog :)	Feb 27 01:30
Balrog_	they've had problems with that recently	Feb 27 01:30
Balrog_	(in tuna)	Feb 27 01:30
schestowitz	Another issue is mercury	Feb 27 01:30
schestowitz	I stopped eating tuna	Feb 27 01:30
PetoKraus	mercury is fun	Feb 27 01:30
schestowitz	PetoKraus: in the brain?	Feb 27 01:30
wispygalaxy	i havent had tuna in a while, roy	Feb 27 01:30
PetoKraus	nah	Feb 27 01:30
schestowitz	I know..	Feb 27 01:31
schestowitz	Mercuriy scared me too.. but my blood tests were fine.	Feb 27 01:31
PetoKraus	tuna is still one of the more healthy foods	Feb 27 01:31
Balrog_	blood tests aren't too accurate	Feb 27 01:31
Balrog_	unfortunately	Feb 27 01:31
PetoKraus	i don't know about US, but in europe sea dumping of anything is banned	Feb 27 01:31
schestowitz	Bloody hell	Feb 27 01:31
PetoKraus	since 2000.	Feb 27 01:31
wispygalaxy	thats too bad balrog	Feb 27 01:31
Balrog_	sea dumping?	Feb 27 01:32
PetoKraus	yeah	Feb 27 01:32
PetoKraus	like you take the trash and dump it in the sea	Feb 27 01:32
Balrog_	probably banned here too	Feb 27 01:32
PetoKraus	well i wouldn't be so sure	Feb 27 01:32
Balrog_	there've been cases of it in the region though	Feb 27 01:32
PetoKraus	after this half of the term	Feb 27 01:33
PetoKraus	i basically stopped worrying about what do i eat	Feb 27 01:33
PetoKraus	in terms of, you know, possible pollutants	Feb 27 01:33
schestowitz	KDE 4.2 Lures Me Back to Kubuntu 8.10 . . . < http://sharplinux.blogspot.com/2009/02/kde-42... >	Feb 27 01:33
wispygalaxy	in oceanography class, i learned that there are areas of the ocean where trash just sit there because of the circulation of the water	Feb 27 01:33
PetoKraus	i'm living in glasgow afterwards	Feb 27 01:33
PetoKraus	chromium everywhere. If i'm gonna get something, it's cancer.	Feb 27 01:33
schestowitz	wispygalaxy: yes, pacific Ocean too	Feb 27 01:33
wispygalaxy	glad to see kubuntu is looking better	Feb 27 01:34
schestowitz	There was a good article about it in one of the big journals last year	Feb 27 01:34
wispygalaxy	lol pk	Feb 27 01:34
schestowitz	They have a name for this man-made stream of junk	Feb 27 01:34
schestowitz	It probably kills animals that eat it too	Feb 27 01:34
wispygalaxy	i forget the name too	Feb 27 01:34
Balrog_	you mean the trash?	Feb 27 01:34
wispygalaxy	i always cut the plastic off six-packs of cola	Feb 27 01:34
wispygalaxy	yes the trash, i learned about it	Feb 27 01:35
Balrog_	I don't drink cola :P	Feb 27 01:35
Balrog_	yeah. :(	Feb 27 01:35
wispygalaxy	so the birds wont get caught	Feb 27 01:35
Balrog_	well I don't drink that stuff	Feb 27 01:35
Balrog_	too much sugar and acids	Feb 27 01:35
*avuton has quit ("leaving")		Feb 27 01:35
wispygalaxy	i saw a cartoon about it when i was younger, it really impacted me	Feb 27 01:35
PetoKraus	heh	Feb 27 01:35
Balrog_	the diet stuff has chemicals that are harmful	Feb 27 01:35
schestowitz	Not acids, 'flavours' :-)	Feb 27 01:35
wispygalaxy	i drink diet only	Feb 27 01:35
PetoKraus	i'm pretty confident i burn enough stuff during the day	Feb 27 01:35
Balrog_	flavors too	Feb 27 01:35
wispygalaxy	caffeine free also	Feb 27 01:35
PetoKraus	so... bring'em on.	Feb 27 01:35
Balrog_	wispygalaxy: keep away from diet	Feb 27 01:36
schestowitz	wispygalaxy: maybe worse	Feb 27 01:36
wispygalaxy	i have chocolate cake soda in my fridge, diet free of course haha	Feb 27 01:36
schestowitz	That chemical (sweetener) is toxic	Feb 27 01:36
Balrog_	the sweeteners they use are very dangerous	Feb 27 01:36
wispygalaxy	its not bad tasting	Feb 27 01:36
PetoKraus	>.>	Feb 27 01:36
Balrog_	but toxic	Feb 27 01:36
PetoKraus	well toxic	Feb 27 01:36
PetoKraus	everything is toxic	Feb 27 01:36
wispygalaxy	the sugar gets to me though, im drinking water these days	Feb 27 01:36
PetoKraus	even DDT	Feb 27 01:36
Balrog_	I have magazines from the late 80's and early 90-s about that	Feb 27 01:36
Balrog_	and more recently it's got worse	Feb 27 01:36
wispygalaxy	uh oh	Feb 27 01:37
wispygalaxy	is it because of lack of regulation?	Feb 27 01:37
schestowitz	My Impressions of KDE 4.2 < http://jintoreedwine.wordpress.com/20... >	Feb 27 01:37
PetoKraus	with these things it's hard to tell	Feb 27 01:37
PetoKraus	what's FUD and what isn't	Feb 27 01:37
Balrog_	there have been reports that artificial sweeteners cause weight gain	Feb 27 01:37
Balrog_	I hear the FDA works with chemical companies to allow this stuff	Feb 27 01:38
PetoKraus	well, there's an allergic reaction to them so...	Feb 27 01:38
Balrog_	how true it is, idk	Feb 27 01:38
PetoKraus	phenylalanines...	Feb 27 01:38
Balrog_	also ... corn syrup isn't entirely safe either ... keep that in mind	Feb 27 01:38
wispygalaxy	i read studies with a grain of salt	Feb 27 01:38
PetoKraus	salt isn't safe either	Feb 27 01:38
PetoKraus	:)	Feb 27 01:38
wispygalaxy	data can be misleading at times	Feb 27 01:38
wispygalaxy	lol pk	Feb 27 01:38
schestowitz	Is Gentoo dying or just becoming old? < http://www.mindstab.net/wordpress/archives/454 >	Feb 27 01:39
Balrog_	Read about the corn syrup manufacturing process :P	Feb 27 01:39
wispygalaxy	my mom used to put salt on veggies, she made me addicted	Feb 27 01:39
wispygalaxy	like tomatoes	Feb 27 01:39
wispygalaxy	wait thats a fruit	Feb 27 01:39
wispygalaxy	i mean cucumbers	Feb 27 01:39
Balrog_	schestowitz: use ~x86 or unstable then :P	Feb 27 01:39
schestowitz	True, salt is harmful	Feb 27 01:39
PetoKraus	oh	Feb 27 01:40
PetoKraus	you won't bloody get it, will you	Feb 27 01:40
PetoKraus	everything is harmful	Feb 27 01:40
PetoKraus	5 litres of water will kill you	Feb 27 01:40
schestowitz	I know.	Feb 27 01:40
schestowitz	Yes	Feb 27 01:40
schestowitz	I was gonna say just that	Feb 27 01:40
PetoKraus	3 spoonfuls of salt will kill you as well	Feb 27 01:40
schestowitz	Tuna too	Feb 27 01:40
wispygalaxy	one goal in life is trying to survive	Feb 27 01:40
Balrog_	well, salt contains aluminum (at least table salt in the US does)	Feb 27 01:40
Balrog_	not very safe, IMO	Feb 27 01:40
wispygalaxy	so we have these obstacles, you can say	Feb 27 01:40
wispygalaxy	like salt, ddt	Feb 27 01:41
schestowitz	Sometime it's a matter of consuming the least harmful or the least levels of harmful 'side effect'	Feb 27 01:41
PetoKraus	I mean, DDT bioaccumulated to levels of 10^5 higher than the initial intended concentration	Feb 27 01:41
PetoKraus	that's QUITE a lot	Feb 27 01:41
wispygalaxy	true roy	Feb 27 01:42
wispygalaxy	i remember that from bio, pk. yes thats alarming	Feb 27 01:42
PetoKraus	if it was more toxic, it wouldn't kill grebes, it would kill the zooplankton	Feb 27 01:42
wispygalaxy	there was a poster of it too in class	Feb 27 01:42
schestowitz	I have a good video about it.. hold on.	Feb 27 01:42
PetoKraus	and there wouldn't be any problem	Feb 27 01:42
PetoKraus	also	Feb 27 01:42
PetoKraus	attempt to get rid of insects in whole texas by spraying the whole area with DDT	Feb 27 01:42
PetoKraus	didn't really help	Feb 27 01:42
PetoKraus	this way you can detect DDT anywhere	Feb 27 01:43
schestowitz	Here (watch the part about nutritional recommendations): http://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/net...	Feb 27 01:43
wispygalaxy	i hope they warned the citizens before spraying	Feb 27 01:43
wispygalaxy	thanks roy	Feb 27 01:43
PetoKraus	it's spread around the globe... you could for sure find it lying in my bed, in your fridge, in amazonian rainforest, or in the hilltops of himalaya	Feb 27 01:43
PetoKraus	it's so easy to detect. the concentrations are harmful.	Feb 27 01:44
PetoKraus	*not	Feb 27 01:44
PetoKraus	:D	Feb 27 01:44
PetoKraus	the question is:	Feb 27 01:44
*PetoKraus np: The Alan Parsons Project - Where's the Walrus (The Instrumental Works)		Feb 27 01:44
wispygalaxy	reminds me of the simpsons movie and how they had a dome	Feb 27 01:44
wispygalaxy	should we do that too haha	Feb 27 01:44
PetoKraus	i guess i should sleep. Tomorrow lectures from 11 trough 17...	Feb 27 01:45
PetoKraus	today, actually	Feb 27 01:45
wispygalaxy	see ya!	Feb 27 01:45
Balrog_	heh	Feb 27 01:45
Balrog_	I have a 7-page paper due monday and a 5-page one due wednesday :/	Feb 27 01:46
schestowitz	Cool! Tracking Mandriva features and specs progress < http://www.linux-wizard.net/blog-tracking_mandr... >	Feb 27 01:46
wispygalaxy	what's it on, balrog?	Feb 27 01:46
wispygalaxy	what's your major	Feb 27 01:46
wispygalaxy	thx for the link roy	Feb 27 01:46
Balrog_	my major is computer science and physics (dual)	Feb 27 01:47
schestowitz	wispygalaxy: np	Feb 27 01:47
wispygalaxy	:-)	Feb 27 01:47
wispygalaxy	cool balrog, my major is finance	Feb 27 01:47
wispygalaxy	i almost went into management, but im glad i didnt. its really not that interesting	Feb 27 01:47
Balrog_	the long one is on a dissent group in America (before 1945) and the shorter one is on Jamaica Kincaid's essay "A Small Place"	Feb 27 01:48
Balrog_	computer science is great. I'm glad I don't have to take and MS-specific courses though :)	Feb 27 01:48
Balrog_	the long essay is for a course about dissent in america	Feb 27 01:48
wispygalaxy	im so glad i dont have literature classes anymore, i do the most work for that class	Feb 27 01:48
Balrog_	yeah that's the english.	Feb 27 01:49
Balrog_	:/	Feb 27 01:49
wispygalaxy	good balrog, glad to see they arent pushing ms technologies	Feb 27 01:49
Balrog_	well they are	Feb 27 01:49
Balrog_	if you major in information science and technology	Feb 27 01:49
Balrog_	you need to take two VB.NET courses	Feb 27 01:49
Balrog_	but not for CS	Feb 27 01:49
*balzac_ (n=balzac@cpe-72-229-124-54.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell		Feb 27 01:50
wispygalaxy	my school doesnt have a MIS major	Feb 27 01:50
wispygalaxy	only CS	Feb 27 01:50
wispygalaxy	they teach java and C++	Feb 27 01:50
Balrog_	CS is better, IMO	Feb 27 01:50
Balrog_	yeah, here it's Java	Feb 27 01:50
Balrog_	some C	Feb 27 01:50
wispygalaxy	it's a lot of theory, right?	Feb 27 01:50
Balrog_	more systems stuff	Feb 27 01:50
schestowitz	[H]omer: please read http://www.itwire.com/content/vi... (why to avoid Mono after TomTom case)	Feb 27 01:50
Balrog_	yeah a lot of theory	Feb 27 01:50
wispygalaxy	i think there's some c at my school too	Feb 27 01:50
wispygalaxy	do you have to take engineering classes too?	Feb 27 01:51
schestowitz	Teaching .NET anything is follish	Feb 27 01:51
Balrog_	well you need to take software engineering	Feb 27 01:51
wispygalaxy	my dad had to take CS courses when he was studying for a degree in mech engineering	Feb 27 01:51
schestowitz	Microsoft tech, unlike say..C, is dependent on the existence of a DYING company	Feb 27 01:51
wispygalaxy	heh true	Feb 27 01:52
Balrog_	I know someone who's in the course and he hates it	Feb 27 01:52
Balrog_	does PHP for $$$	Feb 27 01:52
schestowitz	Microsoft's stock is tanking and it's heading into debt, maybe bankruptcy or bailout not so far from now.	Feb 27 01:52
wispygalaxy	i want to learn something that's new and exciting	Feb 27 01:52
wispygalaxy	it's at 16.42 i think now	Feb 27 01:52
schestowitz	Yes	Feb 27 01:52
schestowitz	Despite BUYBACKS	Feb 27 01:52
schestowitz	It could be well under $10 now	Feb 27 01:52
wispygalaxy	gm is below 2 dollars	Feb 27 01:53
wispygalaxy	lmao	Feb 27 01:53
wispygalaxy	do you like php balrog?	Feb 27 01:53
schestowitz	Had Microsoft not .privatized itself over the years.	Feb 27 01:53
Balrog_	haven't done it yet. So far Java is what I've been doing	Feb 27 01:53
schestowitz	wispygalaxy: gm is history	Feb 27 01:53
schestowitz	It will probably be nationalised or something	Feb 27 01:53
wispygalaxy	lol bye bye	Feb 27 01:53
schestowitz	Maybe sold to China.	Feb 27 01:53
wispygalaxy	scary stuff	Feb 27 01:53
schestowitz	NWO :-) j/k	Feb 27 01:53
wispygalaxy	java looks friendlier than a lot of other languages i think	Feb 27 01:54
Balrog_	I may do C, C++, and some objective-c, as I'd like to work on cross-platform apps targeting Mac first, and then other operating systems (yeah I know....)	Feb 27 01:54
wispygalaxy	i looked at an intro book, i had no trouble	Feb 27 01:54
Balrog_	java is annoying	Feb 27 01:54
wispygalaxy	roy loves java, i think ;)	Feb 27 01:54
wispygalaxy	he told me that once	Feb 27 01:54
Balrog_	strong typing and protected memory and all are annoying	Feb 27 01:54
Balrog_	I need to go	Feb 27 01:54
Balrog_	talk tomorrow	Feb 27 01:54
wispygalaxy	bye for now!	Feb 27 01:55
schestowitz	cya	Feb 27 01:56
wispygalaxy	roy, what distro do you plan to use next?	Feb 27 01:56
wispygalaxy	im thinking of trying out fedora	Feb 27 01:56
schestowitz	Haven't decided yet. It's a mystery	Feb 27 01:56
balzac_	clear	Feb 27 01:57
wispygalaxy	im a sucker for pretty guis	Feb 27 01:57
balzac_	i'm online	Feb 27 01:57
*Balrog_ has quit ()		Feb 27 01:57
balzac_	I thought I was in bash	Feb 27 01:57
schestowitz	GUI=desktop environments	Feb 27 01:57
wispygalaxy	hi balzac	Feb 27 01:57
schestowitz	or win managers	Feb 27 01:57
balzac_	hi wispygalaxy	Feb 27 01:57
schestowitz	distro just puts it all gogether	Feb 27 01:57
wispygalaxy	interesting	Feb 27 01:57
*balzac_ (n=balzac@cpe-72-229-124-54.nyc.res.rr.com) has left #boycottnovell		Feb 27 01:58
wispygalaxy	i still will go with kde	Feb 27 01:58
wispygalaxy	i had experience with gnome with ubuntu	Feb 27 01:58
balzac	ok	Feb 27 01:58
wispygalaxy	what do you use balzac?	Feb 27 01:59
wispygalaxy	im on debian now	Feb 27 01:59
balzac	i'm using ubuntu	Feb 27 01:59
balzac	i'm thinking of debian	Feb 27 01:59
balzac	as well as gnewsense	Feb 27 01:59
wispygalaxy	plain ubuntu or with something other than gnome	Feb 27 01:59
balzac	I don't like that ubuntu ships with mono... I'm just not being very proactive about it lately.	Feb 27 01:59
balzac	i'm using gnome without mono	Feb 27 02:00
wispygalaxy	cool balzac	Feb 27 02:00
balzac	I'm even using flash player, but I really ought to get rid of it.	Feb 27 02:01
balzac	I'm a bit hooked on youtube	Feb 27 02:01
balzac	but i don't develop flash anymore, so I'm not adding to the problem.	Feb 27 02:01
schestowitz	balzac: Flash is not useful for Flash	Feb 27 02:02
schestowitz	The whole thing is useful for some codec inside it	Feb 27 02:02
balzac	what are you using?	Feb 27 02:02
schestowitz	That's all	Feb 27 02:02
schestowitz	I use the binary	Feb 27 02:02
wispygalaxy	haha i am a youtube addict too	Feb 27 02:02
schestowitz	It comes inside Mandriva out of the box	Feb 27 02:02
balzac	well, I like to grab the flash files out of /tmp because I want to save some of them.	Feb 27 02:02
schestowitz	But I have Flash blocked.. just YouTube and other videos are used for it	Feb 27 02:02
schestowitz	Ogg fits well here.	Feb 27 02:02
schestowitz	Had we had Ogg before the Flash video infestation, things would be different.	Feb 27 02:03
balzac	hmm, I might like to borrow your configuration	Feb 27 02:03
schestowitz	You can get a seamonkey config	Feb 27 02:03
schestowitz	I can click two buttons to d/l youtube vids	Feb 27 02:03
schestowitz	that's how I make oggs	Feb 27 02:03
balzac	I have tried pytube	Feb 27 02:03
schestowitz	I used it before	Feb 27 02:04
schestowitz	Google moves the goalposts tio break it.	Feb 27 02:04
schestowitz	I've downloaded YouTube in like 4 different ways over the past 2 years	Feb 27 02:04
balzac	But you end up with such a gigantic ogg file if you don't want to lose quality	Feb 27 02:04
balzac	I use firebug too	Feb 27 02:04
balzac	I believe in software civil disobedience	Feb 27 02:05
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balzac	in my opinion, there has to be a better way to deal with proprietary encoded content than just going without that content	Feb 27 02:05
wispygalaxy	oops guys i g2g now, i'll see you later	Feb 27 02:06
schestowitz	be back soon	Feb 27 02:06
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schestowitz	balzac: it's all about control	Feb 27 02:06
wispygalaxy	i will roy, take care! xx	Feb 27 02:06
schestowitz	Also for the codecs makers	Feb 27 02:06
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schestowitz	It gives them leverage	Feb 27 02:06
balzac	the issue of proprietary compression algorithms - I say content is content and whoever says I can't make software to decode content in their proprietary codec...	Feb 27 02:07
schestowitz	codecs are locks... like DRM	Feb 27 02:07
balzac	it's a hostile act	Feb 27 02:07
schestowitz	They have 'key' standards	Feb 27 02:07
schestowitz	And they want to put people's family vids in their lcoker	Feb 27 02:07
balzac	hmm	Feb 27 02:07
schestowitz	So hey can rent you keys	Feb 27 02:08
schestowitz	Via software vendors (licensing)	Feb 27 02:08
balzac	scumbags	Feb 27 02:08
balzac	well, there has to be a more direct way of battling them.	Feb 27 02:08
balzac	How about this - deface their binaries	Feb 27 02:08
balzac	take their binaries which they distribute, edit with a binary editor, add some subversive message, distribute in violation of their copyright - voila - software civil disobedience	Feb 27 02:09
balzac	breaking the law in a way which they find most offensive	Feb 27 02:09
balzac	Because I wouldn't want to sit around, trying to maintain something which serves the same purpose.	Feb 27 02:10
balzac	Isn't that an important part of this game? breaking the law?	Feb 27 02:10
schestowitz	I guess..	Feb 27 02:11
schestowitz	Is that DMCA or just patents?	Feb 27 02:11
balzac	not sure	Feb 27 02:11
schestowitz	People can watch their own videos	Feb 27 02:11
schestowitz	I'm not talking about drm and dvds though	Feb 27 02:11
balzac	I'm just pissed at the hostility of these @sshole software companies making everyone miserable with their proprietary codecs.	Feb 27 02:12
schestowitz	If I put my data in MPEG trap, then I can crack the cr*p out of this codecs to rescue family videos, right?	Feb 27 02:12
schestowitz	Else it's an unethical restriction	Feb 27 02:12
balzac	DMCA is crap.	Feb 27 02:12
balzac	It's un-american and un-constitutional.	Feb 27 02:12
schestowitz	As one person said here yesterday, "I care about ethics, not law"	Feb 27 02:12
balzac	civil disobedience is the right approach	Feb 27 02:12
balzac	exactly	Feb 27 02:13
schestowitz	You were here	Feb 27 02:13
balzac	that's why I tip my hat to the guys at pirate bay	Feb 27 02:13
balzac	maybe	Feb 27 02:13
schestowitz	It was about sending white-collar criminals to prison	Feb 27 02:13
schestowitz	See their homepage	Feb 27 02:13
schestowitz	Nice picture	Feb 27 02:13
balzac	right	Feb 27 02:13
balzac	yeah	Feb 27 02:13
balzac	That's probably a good idea	Feb 27 02:16
balzac	"breakin the law, breakin the law"	Feb 27 02:16
balzac	Judas Priest	Feb 27 02:18
schestowitz	Hmmm...	Feb 27 02:21
schestowitz	If they block this..	Feb 27 02:21
schestowitz	That would promote CC	Feb 27 02:22
schestowitz	I's rather see Hollywood getting broke while people don't give a c* about its output than watch it dying because many people watch its stuff and some don't pay	Feb 27 02:23
balzac	well, i'm trying to envision victory, not an endless, protracted war of attrition.	Feb 27 02:23
schestowitz	Hollywood has always been highly relaiant on massive privileged audiences that enabled massive production (big budgets for blockbuster	Feb 27 02:23
schestowitz	You can take the wind off their sales by avoiding their stuff (which I pretty much do)	Feb 27 02:23
balzac	i don't agree	Feb 27 02:24
balzac	i say get the content, slap their brand	Feb 27 02:24
balzac	I don't want to miss obama's weekly address, for example	Feb 27 02:25
balzac	I'm away for a while.	Feb 27 02:27
balzac	Keep the good news coming Roy.	Feb 27 02:27
balzac	I love to read about M$ problems.	Feb 27 02:28
schestowitz	OK, I'll do that tomorrow	Feb 27 02:30
schestowitz	The TomTom case kept me too busy reading	Feb 27 02:30
schestowitz	I also commented for the press, so expect another article with me in it. 3rd in a week! ;-)	Feb 27 02:30
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MinceR	geekings	Feb 27 09:22
schestowitz	Morning	Feb 27 09:22
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MinceR	http://styrofoamsmiles.com/blog/2009/02/unloc...	Feb 27 10:14
schestowitz	Makes sense	Feb 27 10:16
MinceR	yeah, i'd be surprised if google didn't fail at something once	Feb 27 10:19
schestowitz	Phonarchy	Feb 27 10:22
oiaohm	Someone cracking software banned. Ok status normal.	Feb 27 10:25
schestowitz	Kill switch would be over the line	Feb 27 10:29
oiaohm	If you wrote that into the contract that it was allowed I bet most people would not read it schestowitz	Feb 27 10:30
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mkko	sweet, using power methods to back up your weak protection. Stone age DRM.	Feb 27 10:43
oiaohm	Nastiest DRM would be one that blew a fuseable link in main cpu stopping it dead.	Feb 27 10:44
oiaohm	Yep hardware bricked.	Feb 27 10:45
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mkko	well, it's not like people won't use apps, they just won't pay	Feb 27 10:54
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schestowitz	Yahoo! will hopefully not form some alliance with the Vole. Bartz Announces Yahoo Reorganization < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/02/26/... >	Feb 27 11:25
schestowitz	http://www.channelregister.co.uk... 'Looking ahead, Hovsepian said that Novell was "investigating all opportunities to lower costs," and that might mean more layoffs. (He did not use the L-Word).'	Feb 27 11:43
schestowitz	Novell could axe jobs on falling demand < http://www.thewest.com.au/default.... >	Feb 27 11:44
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schestowitz	http://www.infoworld.com/article/09/02... "Microsoft declined to respond to Schestowitz's comment."	Feb 27 11:55
schestowitz	What, no luv from Microsoft?	Feb 27 11:55
schestowitz	http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopi...	Feb 27 11:59
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oiaohm	Seams these days you are getting more press coverage than the MS stills managed to create schestowitz	Feb 27 12:29
MinceR	oiaohm: "app developer" != "someone cracking software"	Feb 27 12:29
schestowitz	oiaohm: thanks.	Feb 27 12:32
schestowitz	Check this out: http://wikileaks.org/wiki/European_Com...	Feb 27 12:32
schestowitz	Appalling. They have no shame. This is like white-collar crime, but no suit can conceal a filthy crook.	Feb 27 12:32
oiaohm	MinceR: its nothing uncommon for development platforms not to be able to run real applications.	Feb 27 12:32
oiaohm	Sony PSX development console requiered everything signed for it.	Feb 27 12:33
MinceR	that's great, but even then the users can't choose a reasonably usable version of the g1	Feb 27 12:33
oiaohm	I guess the unlocked version can be flashed with a lock version firmware.	Feb 27 12:33
MinceR	the "normal" version is locked down; the "developer" version disallows access to the android market	Feb 27 12:34
MinceR	i guess someone will eventually come up with a pda/phone that doesn't suck.	Feb 27 12:34
oiaohm	Question are they the same phone changable by firmware.	Feb 27 12:34
oiaohm	That would be same class as PS2.	Feb 27 12:34
oiaohm	Of course to turn as PS2 into development mode you need the development firmware.	Feb 27 12:35
oiaohm	Basically its not strange.	Feb 27 12:35
schestowitz	Unrest at Novell. "Look at what Hubert Figuiere hinted at in his blog post as to Novell's rudderless position. Acquisitions in Novell's state and in the current climate and laying off employees? WTF?" < http://www.osnews.com/thread?350654 >	Feb 27 12:36
oiaohm	The development version is basically pre cracked. If you allowed commercial applications on there you could basically copy them no problems.	Feb 27 12:36
schestowitz	Novell CEO's 2008 compensation was $6.9 million < http://www.boston.com/business/ticker/2... >	Feb 27 12:36
schestowitz	http://investerms.com/index.php?news=921 "Information technology icon Novell, Inc. (NDAQ: NOVL ) fared poorly even in this economy: down more than 50% over the last 12 months. This didn't stop CEO Ronald Hovsepian from getting compensation valued at almost $7 million for the year, with nearly $3 million of that in cash." No recession for the HOVSEPIAN family. :-D	Feb 27 12:37
schestowitz	Cool! http://www.qimo4kids.com/default.aspx	Feb 27 12:43
schestowitz	But why the heck is it ASPX?????	Feb 27 12:44
schestowitz	katherine noyes from the LinuxInsider (ECT) thing is prominent in the tags :-S	Feb 27 12:44
MinceR	oiaohm: i could basically copy them anyway, considering that DRM is a useless lie.	Feb 27 12:44
MinceR	what google did is basically forcing some of their users to pirate software	Feb 27 12:45
MinceR	which is incredibly stupid.	Feb 27 12:45
oiaohm	It is not the first device with the development version cannot use other closed source applications.	Feb 27 12:48
oiaohm	Simple fact what google has done has basically be normal prac of the last 18 years on development versions of embeded devices.	Feb 27 12:48
MinceR	ah, so if someone has done something stupid before, it is not stupid at all	Feb 27 12:49
MinceR	s/has/had/	Feb 27 12:49
MinceR	also, let's just conveniently ignore the fact that pda/phones aren't typical embedded devices.	Feb 27 12:50
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oiaohm	When pda and phones started they were pure embeded devices.	Feb 27 13:11
oiaohm	Basically the rules of development have not grown with the platform MinceR	Feb 27 13:12
MinceR	the hype has, though.	Feb 27 13:12
MinceR	though afaik pdas have long ago grown out of the "pure embedded" period already	Feb 27 13:12
MinceR	it's the telcos -- and whoever willing to completely submit to them (google, apple, others) -- that are ruining the party.	Feb 27 13:13
MinceR	somehow the freerunner wasn't banned anywhere yet :>	Feb 27 13:13
schestowitz	The mortgage mentality: buy (rent) cheaply now, pay over time.	Feb 27 13:14
oiaohm	Nop some pda still have kept closed source software path for drm play back.	Feb 27 13:20
oiaohm	Ie development version cannot play drm media.	Feb 27 13:20
oiaohm	Yes its not as grown up as what lots of people want to think MinceR	Feb 27 13:20
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amarsh04	whoever mentioned qtpfsgui before... thanks... unlike okular it doesn't take too long on file open dialogues	Feb 27 13:46
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schestowitz	Hey, schestowitz	Feb 27 13:48
schestowitz	seller_liar:	Feb 27 13:48
seller_liar	schestowitz: hello roy	Feb 27 13:50
seller_liar	schestowitz: I was thinking	Feb 27 13:51
seller_liar	schestowitz: We live in a bipolar society	Feb 27 13:51
seller_liar	schestowitz: Divided in consumption and production	Feb 27 13:53
seller_liar	schestowitz: We must change this to:	Feb 27 13:53
seller_liar	schestowitz: consumption, production and reflection	Feb 27 13:53
seller_liar	schestowitz: People should think about their habits of consumption and production	Feb 27 13:54
seller_liar	schestowitz: In ethics, clear	Feb 27 13:54
schestowitz	Yes.	Feb 27 13:54
seller_liar	schestowitz: In a ethical way ,of course	Feb 27 13:54
schestowitz	But it's not designed to work this way	Feb 27 13:54
schestowitz	Corporations recklessly consume	Feb 27 13:55
schestowitz	And then expect socialism to come and bail them out once in a while	Feb 27 13:55
schestowitz	"Tough love"	Feb 27 13:55
seller_liar	schestowitz: People still think they should only produce and consume	Feb 27 13:55
seller_liar	schestowitz: People should include ethics in their lives	Feb 27 13:55
seller_liar	schestowitz: People dream of consume more, produce more thinking that this is good	Feb 27 13:56
seller_liar	schestowitz: People should get used to doing the routine things always remembering the impact that they cause ethical	Feb 27 13:58
seller_liar	schestowitz: Sorry , bad translation	Feb 27 13:58
seller_liar	schestowitz: People must think about ethics all the time	Feb 27 13:58
schestowitz	seller_liar: have you seen the programme "century of the self"?	Feb 27 13:59
seller_liar	schestowitz: When you buy a product, in time to produce a product	Feb 27 13:59
seller_liar	schestowitz: no sorry	Feb 27 13:59
schestowitz	There's also the consideration of a third party	Feb 27 13:59
seller_liar	schestowitz: bad translation again	Feb 27 14:00
schestowitz	People think of the effect only in two-way relationships	Feb 27 14:00
schestowitz	Hold on...	Feb 27 14:00
schestowitz	Watch this programme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?...	Feb 27 14:00
seller_liar	schestowitz: people must think about ethics ,every time which buys a product	Feb 27 14:01
seller_liar	schestowitz: We must create a ethical consciousness	Feb 27 14:01
seller_liar	schestowitz: Ok I will see	Feb 27 14:02
seller_liar	schestowitz: thanks	Feb 27 14:02
seller_liar	schestowitz: for example	Feb 27 14:02
seller_liar	schestowitz: Every time I buy a product (cola ,coca -cola for example)	Feb 27 14:03
seller_liar	schestowitz: I remember about a company of product	Feb 27 14:03
seller_liar	schestowitz:And the case of coca ,I always hate coca-cola because of company that produces	Feb 27 14:04
seller_liar	schestowitz: This is ethical consciousness	Feb 27 14:05
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schestowitz	People are taught not to think about that	Feb 27 14:10
schestowitz	They choose brands based on music and images they are shown on TV (a form of hypnosis addressing the deeper human thinking)	Feb 27 14:10
seller_liar	seller_liar:Skinner , a good psychologist	Feb 27 14:11
seller_liar	schestowitz: Skinner , a good psychologist	Feb 27 14:11
seller_liar	schestowitz: Propaganda = Skinner theory	Feb 27 14:11
seller_liar	schestowitz: Turn a bad thing (cigarettes) with a good thing (women and cars) Result = cigarette is good	Feb 27 14:13
seller_liar	schestowitz:sorry ,turn = put	Feb 27 14:14
seller_liar	schestowitz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner	Feb 27 14:15
schestowitz	Yes, that's about right	Feb 27 14:15
schestowitz	Did you see the video?	Feb 27 14:15
seller_liar	schestowitz: No , I will see later	Feb 27 14:16
seller_liar	schestowitz: Tobbaco company uses skinner strategy	Feb 27 14:17
schestowitz	Not only	Feb 27 14:17
schestowitz	.Bernays made women smoke	Feb 27 14:17
schestowitz	Same type of tactics	Feb 27 14:17
seller_liar	schestowitz: Coca-cola too	Feb 27 14:18
schestowitz	Same applied to advertising of iPods, cars, wars (invasions)...	Feb 27 14:18
schestowitz	Yes, Coca Cola is about images and music, not merits of water with acids and sugars	Feb 27 14:18
seller_liar	schestowitz: Coca does a lot of propaganda about ecology , good will	Feb 27 14:18
schestowitz	Yes, they must	Feb 27 14:19
seller_liar	schestowitz: Because images are a good thing	Feb 27 14:19
schestowitz	Politicians told corporations that they must pretend like this	Feb 27 14:19
amarsh04	I love the way that the tobacco counter at my local supermarket (as required by law) a large colour picture of a gangrenous foot with a warning that smoking causes that problem	Feb 27 14:19

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 27th, 2009 - Part 2

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