03.06.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 6th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 11:30 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

Balrog	cool.	Mar 06 00:00
_Hicham_	Roy, a cup of tea plz	Mar 06 00:00
wispygalaxy	do you like to cook, roy	Mar 06 00:00
wispygalaxy	i like baking stuff too	Mar 06 00:00
_Hicham_	Roy seems to be a good cooker	Mar 06 00:01
wispygalaxy	i got an A in cooking class haha	Mar 06 00:01
schestowitz	me?	Mar 06 00:01
schestowitz	Cook?	Mar 06 00:01
wispygalaxy	i can make stir fry really well	Mar 06 00:01
wispygalaxy	yes you	Mar 06 00:01
schestowitz	No, I’m just boiling water now	Mar 06 00:01
wispygalaxy	i can do that too	Mar 06 00:02
schestowitz	Cuisine is a culture thing	Mar 06 00:02
schestowitz	Maybe more relevant in the more distant past	Mar 06 00:02
wispygalaxy	it’s kinda relaxing to do	Mar 06 00:03
schestowitz	And for arrogant suits who pretend that tiny appetizers and 10 plates with ‘samples’ in one meal makes them important	Mar 06 00:03
schestowitz	A lot of food can be mass-produced these days	Mar 06 00:03
schestowitz	Even cakes	Mar 06 00:03
wispygalaxy	making a cake for someone shows that you care about them	Mar 06 00:03
wispygalaxy	i do that for my family	Mar 06 00:03
schestowitz	Factories automate a lof of the process and even reduce energy consumption compared to duplication of effort at homes.	Mar 06 00:03
PetoKraus	roy indeed seems to be a good cooker!	Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz	Problem is, this enables reckless populationb growth	Mar 06 00:04
PetoKraus	an electric one with ceramic plate!	Mar 06 00:04
wispygalaxy	hey pk!	Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz	And one day when energy crisis hits people can starve	Mar 06 00:04
wispygalaxy	haha	Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz	Not funny	Mar 06 00:04
wispygalaxy	i was talking to pk haha	Mar 06 00:04
PetoKraus	i’m sorry, but this typo is actually quite amusing	Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz	PetoKraus: Hehe.	Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz	I missed that one	Mar 06 00:04
wispygalaxy	roy you got mad at me	Mar 06 00:05
schestowitz	No, why\|?	Mar 06 00:05
schestowitz	Because text carried no emotion or tone?	Mar 06 00:05
wispygalaxy	it’s easy to misinterpret things	Mar 06 00:05
PetoKraus	this memory leak is retarded	Mar 06 00:06
wispygalaxy	online i mean	Mar 06 00:06
PetoKraus	brb	Mar 06 00:06
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Balrog	everyone can boil water	Mar 06 00:06
wispygalaxy	i did for my chem class	Mar 06 00:07
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wispygalaxy	i miss science class experiments	Mar 06 00:07
PetoKraus	there we go, 1200MB ram freed by simple Xorg restart	Mar 06 00:07
wispygalaxy	i have to take one science course in order to graduate	Mar 06 00:07
Balrog	heh	Mar 06 00:07
wispygalaxy	cool pk	Mar 06 00:07
Balrog	I’m doing physics, so that’s a lot of science courses	Mar 06 00:07
PetoKraus	it isn’t cool	Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus	it’s annoying	Mar 06 00:08
Balrog	what?!?! Which Xorg are you using?	Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus	1.6.0	Mar 06 00:08
Balrog	ew	Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus	i presume the bug is in the ati driver	Mar 06 00:08
Balrog	better than 1.5.x?	Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus	well	Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus	it has a bloody memleak	Mar 06 00:08
Balrog	I heard that Arch Linux moved the ati driver out of the main repo?	Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus	yes	Mar 06 00:08
wispygalaxy	when you have to do experiments and write lab reports, i hate that	Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus	arch is The Revolution againist GPU drivers	Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus	fglrx pushed out to community/aur	Mar 06 00:09
_Hicham_	PetKraus : what ATI card to u have?	Mar 06 00:09
schestowitz	MSI finally does Linux: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/20…	Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus	in the same week AMD said they are dropping support for anything older than R500	Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus	_Hicham_: Mobility Radeon X1400	Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus	see, that’s a good idea actually	Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus	i might try radeonhd	Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus	!!!!!	Mar 06 00:09
wispygalaxy	instant on? wow!	Mar 06 00:09
schestowitz	PetoKraus: what eats it all up (RAM)?	Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus	xorg	Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz	Use diagnostics to get… OH	Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz	xorg?	Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus	xorg	Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz	How come?	Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus	the server	Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus	and if i use xrestop, it doesn’t show anything	Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus	anything more than 3MB	Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz	PetoKraus: so don’t use x	Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz	there are cli-based irc clients	Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus		Mar 06 00:11
schestowitz	and lynx	Mar 06 00:11
PetoKraus	sure	Mar 06 00:11
_Hicham_	PetoKraus : what distribution is this?	Mar 06 00:11
PetoKraus	Arch Linux	Mar 06 00:11
PetoKraus	i’ll be right back	Mar 06 00:11
PetoKraus	with radeonhd	Mar 06 00:11
wispygalaxy	is arch one of the fastest distros?	Mar 06 00:11
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schestowitz	Seems likely	Mar 06 00:11
schestowitz	There goes X down again?	Mar 06 00:11
wispygalaxy	are you using red hat now roy?	Mar 06 00:11
schestowitz	No.	Mar 06 00:11
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schestowitz	I’d rather move to BLAG or Debian next	Mar 06 00:12
wispygalaxy	what do you use	Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz	But I also like Mand	Mar 06 00:12
PetoKraus	there we go	Mar 06 00:12
wispygalaxy	go for debian, duh	Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz	The sooner Microsoft goes the better	Mar 06 00:12
_Hicham_	roy, what are u using right now?	Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz	If Mand and others can patiently wait for MS’ Chapter 11, that’ll be a boon for them	Mar 06 00:12
PetoKraus	chapter 11?	Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz	_Hicham_: mandriva 2008.1 mostly	Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz	It’s my second partition	Mar 06 00:12
PetoKraus	that’s bankrupcy?	Mar 06 00:12
wispygalaxy	bankrupcy	Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz	yes	Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz	They begged for bailout	Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz	It figures	Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy	kmart filed for that	Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz	kmart can be acuired by kde	Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz	fits well	Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy	haha!	Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz	*acquired	Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy	kool	Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz	Even KDE renamed apps	Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz	At least in the menus	Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz	KIMP	Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy	kash register	Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy	kosmetics aisle	Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz	KA-NOME	Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz	Komo	Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz	Mono..	Mar 06 00:14
Balrog	haha	Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz	Kumo	Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz	Kumo is a bad name	Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz	Association of another Microsoft death	Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz	Like Equipt, remember?	Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz	Or SPOT watch?	Mar 06 00:14
wispygalaxy	yep	Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz	Hehe. Flight Simulator……. RIP… bit bucket..	Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz	Did Microsoft buy Flight Simulatos?	Mar 06 00:15
_Hicham_	do u like everything being named with K in KDE?	Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz	Maybe they wish there were never bought	Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz	Microsoft shut down Enseble last year	Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz	It f*ed over Bungie as well.	Mar 06 00:15
wispygalaxy	i had flight simulator with win 3.1	Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz	*Ensembl;e	Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz	_Hicham_: it’s not good marketing	Mar 06 00:16
wispygalaxy	i was so afraid of crashing in that game that i stayed far away from the ground	Mar 06 00:16
schestowitz	I had migraines with Win 3.1	Mar 06 00:16
_Hicham_	Qt is completely GPLed now	Mar 06 00:16
wispygalaxy	heh mustard theme	Mar 06 00:16
schestowitz	Seriously now… Windows 3.1 has Solitaire… maybe the only useful part in it	Mar 06 00:16
schestowitz	Then there was THIRD-PART s/w.	Mar 06 00:16
wispygalaxy	my dad loved that game	Mar 06 00:16
wispygalaxy	solitaire	Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz	*Party. That’s why Microsoft still holds on to something	Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz	Breaking standards and screwing over os/2 as well	Mar 06 00:17
wispygalaxy	that sucks	Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz	I need to do those exhibits sometimes	Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz	Maybe you’ll help me.	Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz	Cock County Sues Craigslist Over Prostitution Ads < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160803/cook_coun… >	Mar 06 00:18
wispygalaxy	ok we’ll see what we can do, sounds cool	Mar 06 00:18
wispygalaxy	cock county? lol	Mar 06 00:18
schestowitz	That’s how I read it first	Mar 06 00:19
schestowitz	This one I read as : Microsoft Ditches Surface to New Markets < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160768/microsoft_p… >	Mar 06 00:19
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Balrog	Flight Simulator … that was one good MS product I used to use … thew bought it back in the 80′s and it got better until lately	Mar 06 00:21
wispygalaxy	i hit restart by mistake haha	Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz	wispygalaxy: gone to Hispterville?	Mar 06 00:22
Balrog	and now they cancel it	Mar 06 00:22
wispygalaxy	i left the channel for a second	Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz	Balrog: MS is in seriously deep mud	Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz	Like Sun	Mar 06 00:22
wispygalaxy	nope XD	Mar 06 00:22
Balrog	wispygalaxy: any reason you’re using mibbit?	Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz	But Microsoft had money to buy back stock	Mar 06 00:22
wispygalaxy	my sis is a hipster, kinda	Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz	And it had power to corrupt	Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz	In the press and in DC	Mar 06 00:22
Balrog	schestowitz: I know. It sucks for us, the users	Mar 06 00:22
wispygalaxy	it’s convenient lol	Mar 06 00:23
Balrog	the good products die, the bad ones keep going	Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz	So people don’t get told how seriously f*ed they are and they corrupt the system with stuff like patents	Mar 06 00:23
Balrog	I use irssi via ssh	Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz	Their new business model is like SCO’s	Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz	But they needed to corrupt some systems for it	Mar 06 00:23
wispygalaxy	cool balrog	Mar 06 00:23
Balrog	though SCO was more blatant	Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz	Including EPO and the India patents bureau	Mar 06 00:23
wispygalaxy	sco is dead	Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz	wispygalaxy: hippie >> hipster	Mar 06 00:24
Balrog	???	Mar 06 00:24
Balrog	sco is pretty much dead	Mar 06 00:24
wispygalaxy	hipsters are different in the usa	Mar 06 00:24
schestowitz	Yes, it is	Mar 06 00:24
wispygalaxy	they are kinda like punks, but more artsy	Mar 06 00:24
schestowitz	Like Duke Nukem	Mar 06 00:24
schestowitz	It’s there, somewhere	Mar 06 00:24
schestowitz	In abandonware	Mar 06 00:24
wispygalaxy	haha DNF	Mar 06 00:24
Balrog	what’s the argument about hippies and hipsters? I don’t subscribe to either ideology	Mar 06 00:25
wispygalaxy	good haha	Mar 06 00:25
wispygalaxy	hipsters try too hard	Mar 06 00:25
schestowitz	Like yddgdrasil.. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c…	Mar 06 00:25
wispygalaxy	high priced clothing and all	Mar 06 00:25
schestowitz	“Driivng the economy”	Mar 06 00:26
wispygalaxy	cool chart	Mar 06 00:26
wispygalaxy	linux is a teen still	Mar 06 00:26
schestowitz	“Hi, I’m a hipster… and I’m a Bee Cee (BC)”	Mar 06 00:27
schestowitz	Joing the future… get gnu	Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy	lmao	Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy	my sis doesn’t have a mac though	Mar 06 00:27
Balrog	Yes I use Macs … but I’m not a hippie or a hipster	Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy	she has a toshiba like me	Mar 06 00:27
Balrog	I’ve worked with Toshibas	Mar 06 00:27
PetoKraus	apart from arch not being based on cru	Mar 06 00:27
Balrog	the driver support sucks badly	Mar 06 00:27
PetoKraus	*crux	Mar 06 00:27
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/up…	Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy	yeah it does	Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy	hp is easier to deal with’	Mar 06 00:28
wispygalaxy	lol @ the pic	Mar 06 00:28
PetoKraus	monoooooooooooooo	Mar 06 00:28
Balrog	well Mac does emphasize proper engineering very highly … yes there’s still advertising	Mar 06 00:28
wispygalaxy	i though you said moooo lol	Mar 06 00:28
wispygalaxy	sry haha	Mar 06 00:28
Balrog	but if you look at how the system is put together, it’s quite organized	Mar 06 00:29
wispygalaxy	have you made a hackintosh before	Mar 06 00:29
Balrog	like the application / file package scheme … works very well. No one else uses it	Mar 06 00:29
Balrog	Yes, I have. Not very successful, as I don’t have a Core2 system to play around with	Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy	awesome	Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy	at least you did it	Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy	i couldn’t do that now	Mar 06 00:30
Balrog	Yeah. I had 10.4 working for a while	Mar 06 00:30
Balrog	wispygalaxy: why not?	Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy	not leet enough	Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy	but you seem really smart balrog	Mar 06 00:31
Balrog	that’s what people say	Mar 06 00:31
wispygalaxy	double major is a sign of that	Mar 06 00:31
Balrog	but there’s a lot I don’t know	Mar 06 00:31
Balrog	heh lol	Mar 06 00:31
wispygalaxy	admitting that makes you appear wise	Mar 06 00:32
wispygalaxy	they say people who arent smart overestimate themselves	Mar 06 00:32
wispygalaxy	and say they know everything	Mar 06 00:32
wispygalaxy	i learned that in psychology	Mar 06 00:32
Balrog	like I don’t know C … I can read it and partially understand it, but I can’t write in it	Mar 06 00:32
wispygalaxy	the people who are intelligent know that they have shortcomings	Mar 06 00:32
Balrog	heh … know everything	Mar 06 00:33
Balrog	lol	Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy	know-it-alls haha	Mar 06 00:33
Balrog	yeah	Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy	linux is in c, right?	Mar 06 00:33
Balrog	C and C++	Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy	the kernel i mean	Mar 06 00:33
Balrog	yes	Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy	cool	Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy	gtk is C++	Mar 06 00:33
Balrog	I’d go with Qt though these days	Mar 06 00:34
wispygalaxy	that’s neat	Mar 06 00:34
schestowitz	PetoKraus: shouldn’t it be moooooooooooooooooono? I know bulls and gnus don’t moo, but sitll…	Mar 06 00:34
wispygalaxy	haha!	Mar 06 00:35
Balrog	the Mac kernel is in C/C++, but apps are in this combination of C and Smalltalk (an object-oriented language originally used by Xerox for their PARC GUI stuff; somewhat like Java) called Objective-C	Mar 06 00:35
Balrog	but that’s just the GUI part	Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy	cool i didnt know that balrog	Mar 06 00:35
Balrog	and there’s a Qt library	Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy	convenient	Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy	rofl, someone’s computer in my dorm just said “you got mail”	Mar 06 00:35
Balrog	heh	Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy	really loudly	Mar 06 00:35
Balrog	I hate AOL	Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy	i never used it thankfully lol	Mar 06 00:36
Balrog	I use AIM, but they don’t care for your account	Mar 06 00:36
schestowitz	It used to be my mail notifier	Mar 06 00:36
wispygalaxy	but i have used IM	Mar 06 00:36
schestowitz	[When I was like 16]	Mar 06 00:36
wispygalaxy	cool roy	Mar 06 00:36
Balrog	my friends use IM, so I do too	Mar 06 00:36
wispygalaxy	i havent used my IM account since 2005	Mar 06 00:36
wispygalaxy	i have gtalk	Mar 06 00:37
Balrog	facebook IM is becoming more popular … though the ‘clients’ for it are all hacks	Mar 06 00:37
Balrog	;P	Mar 06 00:37
wispygalaxy	heh	Mar 06 00:37
Balrog	they pretend to be a web browser and interact with the web page chat system	Mar 06 00:37
schestowitz	Author claims political pressure behind cancellation of Stalin book < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/m… > Grrrrrr…	Mar 06 00:37
schestowitz	Censorship.	Mar 06 00:37
wispygalaxy	hiding the truth?	Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz	AOL AWOL	Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz	wispygalaxy: dunno, haven’t read it yet	Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz	RMS linked to this	Mar 06 00:38
wispygalaxy	really? cool	Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz	http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jan-apr…. ” US financial companies spent 5 billion dollars on lobbying and political campaigns to procure the deregulation that allowed them to create the financial crisis. I don’t see any sign that Obama wants to change the system which lets businesses control our so-called democracy. “	Mar 06 00:38
wispygalaxy	thats interesting balrog	Mar 06 00:38
Balrog	I’m not surprised. Russia is getting worse. :/	Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz	Only $5 billion?	Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz	Hey, we could chip in too and counter that, right?	Mar 06 00:39
wispygalaxy	lobbyists ugh	Mar 06 00:39
schestowitz	That’s many billions in pockets of corruptible ‘Representatives’ (of their families)	Mar 06 00:39
wispygalaxy	i read supercapitalism, it talks all about lobbyists	Mar 06 00:39
schestowitz	The system needs to be scraped	Mar 06 00:39
schestowitz	London’s the same BTW	Mar 06 00:39
wispygalaxy	i want to go to london	Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz	They tried to revive regulations last year (El Reg report)	Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz	Too little, too late	Mar 06 00:40
Balrog	schestowitz: what do you mean by ‘the system’?	Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz	The UK is in debt of $3 trillion.	Mar 06 00:40
wispygalaxy	wow	Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz	Time to work for the man (China)	Mar 06 00:40
Balrog	the IS is in debt like 9 or 10 trillion	Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz	Balrog: system=political system	Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz	Sorry, I know “system” can mean all sorts of things	Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz	Lessig has a project	Mar 06 00:40
wispygalaxy	i though “the man” = RIAA	Mar 06 00:40
wispygalaxy		Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz	“Change Congress”	Mar 06 00:40
Balrog	the current political system does not meet the ideals that were set over 200 years ago	Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz	Made me sound there like Communista Anarchista talking about “the system”..	Mar 06 00:41
Balrog	>90% of ‘representatives’ are lawyers … does that ‘represent’ the population fairly?	Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz	yes i know	Mar 06 00:41
wispygalaxy	the consistution was made so that change could be incorporated	Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz	Same in Europe	Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz	British MPs = layers	Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz	Sarko too	Mar 06 00:42
Balrog	but the constitution isn’t being followed	Mar 06 00:42
schestowitz	Bush was in charge	Mar 06 00:42
wispygalaxy	very sad	Mar 06 00:42
schestowitz	Saving the country from the wrath of the Iraquis	Mar 06 00:42
schestowitz	Scary	Mar 06 00:42
schestowitz	Need MARSHALL	Mar 06 00:42
wispygalaxy	we should respect ourselves more	Mar 06 00:42
Balrog	and then you have these laws that are 100s or 1000s of pages … how do you know what you’re passing?????	Mar 06 00:42
Balrog	come on	Mar 06 00:42
wispygalaxy	my english teacher admitted in high school that he rarely reads contracts closely, he reads the first paragraph and signs it lol	Mar 06 00:43
schestowitz	Brave Cowboy George survives the imaginary ‘Lybian assassins’ who chased him down in DC	Mar 06 00:43
wispygalaxy	yeah i cant imagine reading 1000s pages	Mar 06 00:43
Balrog	heh…if you SIGN something, you better read it	Mar 06 00:43
wispygalaxy	he said whatever haha	Mar 06 00:43
Balrog	and idk how click-to-agree license agreements can be enforced	Mar 06 00:43
schestowitz	Today: MPAA Study Calls For Piracy Patriot Act < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/03/05… >	Mar 06 00:44
schestowitz	Stop the sharers	Mar 06 00:44
wispygalaxy	we talked about that in my business law class balrog	Mar 06 00:44
schestowitz	They are killing pople	Mar 06 00:44
schestowitz	They have guns and NU-ki-lar weapons	Mar 06 00:44
wispygalaxy	there needs to be more done about sigs	Mar 06 00:44
schestowitz	There’s the Lisbon one	Mar 06 00:45
schestowitz	Hold on… good video	Mar 06 00:45
wispygalaxy	riaa is worse, imo	Mar 06 00:45
wispygalaxy	with regards to freedom	Mar 06 00:45
Balrog	we have the RIAA, the MPAA, and the BSA	Mar 06 00:45
Balrog	among others	Mar 06 00:45
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09/acta…	Mar 06 00:45
Balrog	probably in that order	Mar 06 00:45
schestowitz	Watch that first video about the length of the doc	Mar 06 00:45
wispygalaxy	true balrog	Mar 06 00:45
Balrog	and what about so-called ‘abandonware’?	Mar 06 00:45
schestowitz	BSA = Gates’ friends	Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz	There are family connections there	Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz	How to beat FOSS?	Mar 06 00:46
Balrog	yeah I hear stories….:/	Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz	Set up ‘indpendent ‘ bodies	Mar 06 00:46
wispygalaxy	abandonware games	Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz	Write down some rules	Mar 06 00:46
wispygalaxy	foss will win	Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz	Pay billions to those ‘bodies’ (buddies) to shill and legalise them	Mar 06 00:46
Balrog	the people I work for (sysadmins) are convinced that the BSA is with MS	Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz	E.g. sw patents in EU	Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz	That’s white collar crimes	Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz	But they believe they do it for the betterment of society\]	Mar 06 00:46
Balrog	foss will probably have a big part…like 40% or more and it will be on every computer	Mar 06 00:47
wispygalaxy	NOT	Mar 06 00:47
schestowitz	I asked Zuck, “how do you sleep at night?”	Mar 06 00:47
wispygalaxy	i hope so balrog	Mar 06 00:47
schestowitz	“Think about what you’re doing”	Mar 06 00:47
schestowitz	Short or wrapping his house in toilet paper	Mar 06 00:47
schestowitz	Or doing this: http://www.egg-attack.com/	Mar 06 00:48
Balrog	Macs already have a good bit of FOSS; Linux is taking the other part of the market (lower-cost, people who don’t want macs, people who don’t care, etc)	Mar 06 00:48
wispygalaxy	my sister’s friend’s house was Toilet papered once	Mar 06 00:48
wispygalaxy	one kid hated her	Mar 06 00:48
*Balrog never heard of such things		Mar 06 00:48
wispygalaxy	so my sis had to help her clean it up, to be a good friend	Mar 06 00:48
Balrog	heh	Mar 06 00:49
wispygalaxy	they got it cleaned up before the sun came up, whew	Mar 06 00:49
wispygalaxy	my dad saw it when he came home late from work, they immediately started cleaning it up	Mar 06 00:50
wispygalaxy	my dorm was TP’d too this year haha	Mar 06 00:50
Balrog	that’s not stuff I heard about before	Mar 06 00:50
wispygalaxy	not my room, the outside i mean	Mar 06 00:50
wispygalaxy	trees	Mar 06 00:51
Balrog	oh	Mar 06 00:51
wispygalaxy	it was for halloween	Mar 06 00:51
Balrog	http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/0…	Mar 06 00:51
Balrog	UAC is broken badly	Mar 06 00:51
schestowitz	In BN	Mar 06 00:51
Balrog	??	Mar 06 00:52
Balrog	and	Mar 06 00:52
Balrog	http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/…	Mar 06 00:52
wispygalaxy	good links, balrog	Mar 06 00:53
wispygalaxy	i’m playing the egg attack game now XD	Mar 06 00:54
schestowitz	I’ve just realised that Microsoft named a filesystem after its CEO	Mar 06 00:54
Balrog	which one?	Mar 06 00:54
wispygalaxy	FAT	Mar 06 00:54
Balrog	heh	Mar 06 00:54
wispygalaxy	rofl roy	Mar 06 00:55
Balrog	gates?	Mar 06 00:55
Balrog	doesn’t sound right	Mar 06 00:55
schestowitz	They didn’t invest Perl	Mar 06 00:55
Balrog	gates != FAT	Mar 06 00:55
schestowitz	For Pearly gates	Mar 06 00:55
wispygalaxy	i thought ballmer	Mar 06 00:55
Balrog	ballmer is only now their ceo	Mar 06 00:55
Balrog	when fat appeared, gates was the ceo	Mar 06 00:55
schestowitz	Linux made two projects	Mar 06 00:55
wispygalaxy	it still fits haha	Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz	Both are named after him	Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz	*Linus	Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz	Linux, Git	Mar 06 00:56
Balrog	yeah lol	Mar 06 00:56
wispygalaxy	lol	Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz	British slang	Mar 06 00:56
Balrog	I read about it	Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz	I knew Ballmer/FAT was all about patents	Mar 06 00:57
schestowitz	“Cancer” this, “cancel” that	Mar 06 00:57
wispygalaxy	hah	Mar 06 00:57
Balrog	but how can you enforce a patent after 14 years?	Mar 06 00:57
Balrog	well, Unisys did it with GIF	Mar 06 00:57
schestowitz	Cancer.NET, cancel Flight Simulator	Mar 06 00:57
Balrog	see what has happened to GIF today	Mar 06 00:57
Balrog	yeah, Flight Simulator … the quite-large community is very upset	Mar 06 00:58
wispygalaxy	i have to go guys, talk to you soon!	Mar 06 00:58
Balrog	many are switching to mac / linux	Mar 06 00:58
Balrog	talk later	Mar 06 00:58
wispygalaxy	take care balrog!	Mar 06 00:58
Balrog	yeah …	Mar 06 00:59
wispygalaxy	i’ll see you later, roy! ;)	Mar 06 01:00
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schestowitz	Vista vulnerabilities March on < http://www.itwire.com/content… >	Mar 06 01:01
schestowitz	Balrog: yes, hold on.	Mar 06 01:02
schestowitz	I posted about this recently.	Mar 06 01:02
schestowitz	The open source subs are taking off (pun)	Mar 06 01:02
Balrog	the open-source flight simulator is nowhere near the other available stuff	Mar 06 01:02
schestowitz	Here. The mother load: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linu…	Mar 06 01:02
Balrog	which is a $50 product from an independent developer anyway	Mar 06 01:03
Balrog	(scenery costs money to produce)	Mar 06 01:03
Balrog	keep that in mind … it’s not exactly ‘software’	Mar 06 01:03
Balrog	The Qt SDK does NOT support Visual Studio	Mar 06 01:04
Balrog	(there’s a beta addin though )	Mar 06 01:04
schestowitz	Hehe.	Mar 06 01:06
schestowitz	Microsoft hates VS addons	Mar 06 01:06
Balrog	sure they do	Mar 06 01:06
schestowitz	I suppose you may have heard the banned MVP story	Mar 06 01:06
Balrog	explain	Mar 06 01:07
schestowitz	How dare he add value to VS	Mar 06 01:07
schestowitz	Wait..	Mar 06 01:07
schestowitz	Found it. Read this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/20/wi…	Mar 06 01:08
schestowitz	You’ll see there what I’m referring to	Mar 06 01:08
schestowitz	“Microsoft threatens its Most Valuable Professional”	Mar 06 01:08
Balrog	I see.	Mar 06 01:10
Balrog	what do you think of the LLVM / Clang project?	Mar 06 01:10
schestowitz	Weird… http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/34842	Mar 06 01:12
schestowitz	This got pulled	Mar 06 01:12
schestowitz	To keep eye on (needs post tomorrow morning): rosoft patent protection pacts	Mar 06 01:16
schestowitz	* http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux_compa…	Mar 06 01:16
Balrog	it was moved: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/communi…	Mar 06 01:18
Balrog	schestowitz: got it?	Mar 06 01:19
Balrog	http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n…	Mar 06 01:20
Balrog	“A group at the University of Washington also showed how simple it was to attract bogus infringement notices; even a network-attached printer was identified as a culprit.”	Mar 06 01:20
Balrog	hehe	Mar 06 01:20
Balrog	interesting … there was one MS MVP who reverse engineered flight simulator code to add hooks for external apps	Mar 06 01:25
Balrog	MS didn’t complain	Mar 06 01:25
schestowitz	Ubuntu or Xubuntu? It’s getting harder to choose < http://www.procrasticfantastic.com/u… >	Mar 06 01:26
Balrog	go with Kubuntu	Mar 06 01:26
Balrog	KDE4.2 is great	Mar 06 01:26
schestowitz	Hehe. Printer ‘pirating’?	Mar 06 01:27
schestowitz	Put an eye patch and hood on it	Mar 06 01:27
Balrog	yeah	Mar 06 01:27
schestowitz	Paint a frown on it	Mar 06 01:27
schestowitz	Balrog: not /my/ question, blog title there.	Mar 06 01:27
Balrog	though NAS ‘pirating’ is sure possible	Mar 06 01:28
Balrog	yeah I know	Mar 06 01:28
schestowitz	I see that Matt Lee wrote him	Mar 06 01:28
schestowitz	I know him and met him.	Mar 06 01:28
schestowitz	You could DDOS the MAFIAA like this	Mar 06 01:29
Balrog	wrote whom?	Mar 06 01:29
schestowitz	Set up things that are mock copyrighted content	Mar 06 01:29
Balrog	yeah	Mar 06 01:29
schestowitz	Auhomate the processes	Mar 06 01:29
schestowitz	Flood their detection system	Mar 06 01:30
Balrog	they do that on the torrent sites … make a bogus torrent, encrypt it	Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz	The problem with these rules is that whole familities will get disconnected over disputed to do with legal stuff	Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz	Like torrenting an issue of a Linux mag	Mar 06 01:30
Balrog	you spend hours downloading it, then find out it’s 0′s	Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz	Good luck wasting hours on the phone retracting the “first strike”	Mar 06 01:30
Balrog	yeah :/	Mar 06 01:30
Balrog	or Qt 4.5	Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz	Most people won’t bother	Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz	When 3rd hits they’ll say “why didn’t you complain the first time?”	Mar 06 01:31
Balrog	yeah	Mar 06 01:31
schestowitz	“To speak to an operator, please press 5…. hold on while we dead with other ‘stikes’ [music plays like an elevator]“	Mar 06 01:31
Balrog	where’s the proof? innocent BEFORE proven guilty, right?????	Mar 06 01:31
schestowitz	*deal with other ‘strikes’	Mar 06 01:31
Balrog	use a blocklist / peerguardian to begin with	Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz	Not good for MAFIAA	Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz	They own the Web	Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz	First they shoot	Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz	But /SOME/ people /MIGHT/ use it just to do legit stuff… like me	Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz	How dare I use their Interwebs?	Mar 06 01:32
Balrog	yeah.	Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz	How long I haven’t used this wallpaper: http://www.detector-pro.com/2009/03/linux-tip-ho…	Mar 06 01:33
schestowitz	“I’m still sticking with KDE 4.2.0 as my everyday desktop and enjoying most of it though:)” http://home.coming.dk/index.php/2009/03…	Mar 06 01:33
Balrog	he should update to 4.2.1	Mar 06 01:34
Balrog	I can’t use KDE4.2 because of the old nvidia driver that requires Xorg 1.4	Mar 06 01:34
Balrog	KDE4.2 requires Xorg 1.5	Mar 06 01:35
schestowitz	Hehe. Microsoft Office for netbooks being prepared < http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/appl… >. They move to an advertising model now?	Mar 06 01:36
schestowitz	They are killing themselves	Mar 06 01:36
Balrog	advertising is no replacement for a good product	Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz	Giving their stuff away for free due to SAAS/FOSS (Google/OOo)	Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz	That’s not a steady business model for the VOle	Mar 06 01:37
Balrog	with a bad product, advertising won’t help	Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz	Advertising in office I mean	Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz	I read about it earlier	Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz	I think they want to embed ads	Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz	Like in Works	Mar 06 01:37
Balrog	ew.	Mar 06 01:38
Balrog	making it adware	Mar 06 01:38
schestowitz	Yes	Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz	OOo was heading the same way	Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz	Maybe still is	Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz	Jonathan Schwartz went defensive	Mar 06 01:39
Balrog	I don’t think it is	Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz	And Go-OO won’t allow that to happen	Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz	Mitchell Baker has a curious hairstyle: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/03/…	Mar 06 01:40
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schestowitz	Firefox 3.0.7 security and stability release now available < https://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.p… >	Mar 06 01:41
schestowitz	A Better Solitaire. < http://www.oneclicklinux.com/2009/03/… >. Party in Linux like you’re a Microsoft-certified Solitaire Engineer	Mar 06 01:41
Balrog	who runs Go-OO?	Mar 06 01:43
balzac	What a bad opening sentence in that article: Firefox has long been the Burger King to er’s McDonalds	Mar 06 01:45
balzac	my pasted string got mangled	Mar 06 01:45
balzac	Firefox has long been the Burger King to Internet Explorer’s McDonald’s.	Mar 06 01:46
balzac	Internet Explorer is more like a Big Mac made with bovine estrogen and other hormones, farmer’s anti-biotics, bovine spongiform encephalitis, and a percentage of fecal content.	Mar 06 01:48
balzac	Firefox is more like a burger made from organic farming methods, perhaps even an organic vegan burger.	Mar 06 01:49
Balrog	well not fully	Mar 06 01:50
Balrog	there’s the name thing	Mar 06 01:50
Balrog	firefox / iceweasel	Mar 06 01:50
balzac	are you referring to FF trademarking?	Mar 06 01:53
Balrog	yes	Mar 06 01:54
balzac	I’m not very familiar with that discussion	Mar 06 01:54
schestowitz	The Microsoft goons are crapping out libel again	Mar 06 01:56
schestowitz	That old ‘plant’ of theirs	Mar 06 01:57
schestowitz	C.O.L.A. is a mess. Hundreds of times they’ve posted (and planted ‘on my behalf’) stories about me changing sexes and molesting children etc etc. Schmidt was right about the Internet becoming a “cesspool”. I worry there’s no easy solution.	Mar 06 01:59
Balrog	hrrm	Mar 06 02:00
Balrog	C.O.L.A?	Mar 06 02:00
schestowitz	Yes	Mar 06 02:01
schestowitz	USENET	Mar 06 02:01
Balrog	who are they?	Mar 06 02:01
schestowitz	Microsoft Munchkins	Mar 06 02:01
schestowitz	I killfile them	Mar 06 02:02
schestowitz	Time wasters	Mar 06 02:02
Balrog	usenet is known for that	Mar 06 02:02
schestowitz	They achieve the very opposite of what they try..	Mar 06 02:02
schestowitz	Rather than demote, their constant attack draw attention.	Mar 06 02:02
schestowitz	They sometimes just point to things that I write	Mar 06 02:02
Balrog	heh	Mar 06 02:03
schestowitz	They give more exposure but maybe they can’t help it. If they were wise, they’d ignore	Mar 06 02:03
Balrog	heh yeah	Mar 06 02:04
schestowitz	It’s like free publicity, not that I’d read their junk	Mar 06 02:05
Balrog	I don’t even use usenet	Mar 06 02:05
schestowitz	By choosing nonsensical attacks like “sex change” they arouse immediate realisation that it’s just a lie	Mar 06 02:05
Balrog	obviously	Mar 06 02:06
schestowitz	Eventually people just check for the truth, come to my site or whatever… so what have the trolls aschieved with their libel? Streisand effect.	Mar 06 02:06
Balrog	heh	Mar 06 02:06
Balrog	that’s how it works	Mar 06 02:06
twitter	the trolls were trying to make you quit, Roy.	Mar 06 02:08
twitter	they wanted your work to be so unpleasant that no normal person would bother.	Mar 06 02:08
twitter	boy did they get that wrong, ha ha.	Mar 06 02:08
Balrog	that’s the type of troll that’s an idiot	Mar 06 02:08
Balrog	that’s been shown through history	Mar 06 02:08
schestowitz	Could be worse.	Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz	Like Ken’s	Mar 06 02:09
twitter	no, the attacks can be effective.	Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz	They attacked himphysically	Mar 06 02:09
twitter	Ken who?	Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz	And it makes him even /more/ respected.	Mar 06 02:09
Balrog	certain ones can	Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz	twitter: you didn’t hear	Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz	See BN	Mar 06 02:09
Balrog	but a few people will go to the site to see what’s up	Mar 06 02:10
twitter	I’ve been trying to get a few things done. Missed the news	Mar 06 02:10
Balrog	I didn’t see it	Mar 06 02:10
schestowitz	ignore, laught, attack (patents), physical attack, lose	Mar 06 02:10
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schestowitz	Hey, indiana	Mar 06 02:10
schestowitz	Balrog: it’s the post with a photo of an angry kid	Mar 06 02:10
schestowitz	tessier contibuted the second story	Mar 06 02:11
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Balrog	I see.	Mar 06 02:12
twitter	a lot of tempers are short lately. The M$ people deserve what they get though. For decades they have smugly sat on the “popularity” of their crap and bullied everyone else.	Mar 06 02:13
twitter	It’s hard to tell if the attack on Ken was random or planned.	Mar 06 02:13
twitter	bullies, sooner or later, resort to real violence	Mar 06 02:13
twitter	I was trying to tell Balrog that the verbal attacks can be effective, even if they are crazy. Try explaining the nonsense to your family.	Mar 06 02:14
Balrog	of course they are effective	Mar 06 02:15
Balrog	in the short term	Mar 06 02:15
twitter	It takes a very special and principled family to back someone like Roy in the face of that kind of abuse against the weight of the Wintel press and the M$ monopoly.	Mar 06 02:15
twitter	Most people look to “practical” matters, such as the stink such attacks can put on a job search.	Mar 06 02:18
Balrog	Try tracing me with ‘Balrog’	Mar 06 02:18
Balrog	good luck :p	Mar 06 02:18
twitter	Unless you are using TOR, your ISP knows who you are and so do M$ and the other bad guys.	Mar 06 02:19
schestowitz	Yes, they leak it	Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz	Its goons are anyway	Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz	In USENET	Mar 06 02:20
Balrog	Sure they do.	Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz	It’s a form of intimidation	Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz	There’s no anonymity, not even with TOR	Mar 06 02:20
twitter	So, you only conceal yourself from friends and would be employers.	Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz	Determined people need only query once	Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz	This was discused here in IRC over 6 months ago	Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz	http://bil-gates.blogspot.com/ “Gates met Noorda briefly in San Francisco to discuss the merger […] before the merger could go forward, he said Novell had to drop its plans to buy Digital Research. […] “	Mar 06 02:21
Balrog	what would help is stripping hostnames from IRC logs	Mar 06 02:22
schestowitz	“when Noorda raised the possibility that the Justice Department might try to block a merger between the first and third biggest software companies on the planet, Gates responded, “Don’t worry, we know how to handle the federal government.” […] Gates denied every saying such a thing””	Mar 06 02:22
twitter	If everyone used TOR and other privacy protecting software, anonymity might be real.	Mar 06 02:22
Balrog	TOR is slow.	Mar 06 02:22
Balrog	too slow for practical use	Mar 06 02:22
Balrog		Mar 06 02:22
schestowitz	In germany they cracked down on TOR	Mar 06 02:22
twitter	It would be faster if more people used it.	Mar 06 02:22
twitter	It should be against the law to interfere with communications like that.	Mar 06 02:23
Balrog	I’m using a difficult-to-trace univ. network connection anyway	Mar 06 02:23
twitter	University networks are now some of the most monitored.	Mar 06 02:23
Balrog	depends on how it’s connected	Mar 06 02:23
twitter	The bad guys will know who you are and harass you.	Mar 06 02:24
twitter	This should only make you fight harder.	Mar 06 02:24
Balrog	they’d have to find out	Mar 06 02:24
Balrog	not very easy in this situation…	Mar 06 02:24
Balrog	though if there were real reasons, they could find out (ie subpoena)	Mar 06 02:24
Balrog	I’ll be around later	Mar 06 02:25
twitter	they don’t need one of those, they just need a friend and they have plenty of idiots willing to help	Mar 06 02:25
twitter	Just know what you are getting into. If you are successful at converting people or are well published, they will find you out and take whatever actions they can.	Mar 06 02:27
schestowitz	Yes, they need an ISP to give them a snoop	Mar 06 02:28
schestowitz	Telecoms do this all the time	Mar 06 02:28
schestowitz	These are just kids on the phones.	Mar 06 02:28
schestowitz	Even politicians are more corruptible.	Mar 06 02:29
schestowitz	People think of ‘laws’ and ‘rules’ as something that will prevent people from having fun with DBs	Mar 06 02:29
balzac	ls	Mar 06 02:31
balzac	oops	Mar 06 02:31
twitter	Looks like a random encounter, but the water was poisoned with lots of hate, -> Memos” had been circulated amongst the management teams, giving advice and training on how best to deal with the “Open Source Threat”	Mar 06 02:33
twitter	LOL, ”We schedule a technician visit for six months in the future with every home visit. Both they and we know their registries and computers will be messed up again by then.”	Mar 06 02:35
schestowitz	Balrog: could be worse. Balrog once typed in a password into IRC	Mar 06 02:37
schestowitz	cd /home/roy/stash	Mar 06 02:37
schestowitz	oops	Mar 06 02:37
balzac	that would suck	Mar 06 02:43
twitter	nah, just find a new one.	Mar 06 02:44
twitter	My favorite method is going away with my books though.	Mar 06 02:46
twitter	I like to make up passwords from highlighted sentences in reference books. Remember the phrase and the password soon passes into muscle memory.	Mar 06 02:47
twitter	Ouch, a good comment, ” when it gets physical, you know the other side has run out of rational arguments. They can no longer hide the fact that the broken window fallacy is just that. Essentially, you’re living proof these people are parasites. Of course they can’t stand you.”	Mar 06 02:48
balzac	i’m really pissed just now	Mar 06 02:51
balzac	I found out I obliterated a file that took me a long time to make	Mar 06 02:51
schestowitz	No backup?	Mar 06 02:55
balzac	nope	Mar 06 02:55
balzac	oh well, it’ll be easier the second time… god damn it	Mar 06 02:55
balzac	This moron client has been on my back	Mar 06 02:55
balzac	so I’ve been under extra stress	Mar 06 02:56
balzac	well, the part I deleted won’t be too hard to re-create	Mar 06 02:57
balzac	But I didn’t plan to spend my evening working on it	Mar 06 02:59
balzac	Yesterday, i was fantasizing of filling a sock with dirt to hit the client over the head with..	Mar 06 03:00
schestowitz	gn	Mar 06 03:00
balzac	night	Mar 06 03:00
balzac	that would be a very long password	Mar 06 03:36
balzac	twitter:	Mar 06 03:36
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schestowitz	Morning	Mar 06 09:21
PetoKraus	zorg	Mar 06 09:29
PetoKraus	http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13662	Mar 06 09:30
MinceR	Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg?	Mar 06 09:35
PetoKraus	maybe	Mar 06 09:36
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green999	The anti-competitive and predatory antitrust problems with the browser market have dragged on for what’s getting to be close to two decades.	Mar 06 10:02
green999	The EU has picked up where the bush junta dropped the ball.	Mar 06 10:02
green999	mib_vmjz3y	Mar 06 10:02
green999	http://www.networkcomputing.in/News-02…	Mar 06 10:02
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schestowitz	Yes, I know.	Mar 06 10:03
green999	Where are the authoritative complaint and finding-of-fact materials for the EU case posted?	Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz	I don’t know	Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz	They make press release	Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz	*ases	Mar 06 10:03
oiaohm	EU stopped monitering on MS.	Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz	*releases	Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz	oiaohm: not exactly.	Mar 06 10:04
schestowitz	They just laid off (sort of) a full-time watchers	Mar 06 10:04
schestowitz	*watcher	Mar 06 10:04
oiaohm	Now that either means they trust them or they trust that nature will take it course.	Mar 06 10:04
schestowitz	They still have cases	Mar 06 10:04
green999	oiaohm: the cessation of oversight is a problem	Mar 06 10:04
green999	the decision to do so seems out of order	Mar 06 10:04
oiaohm	Not really.	Mar 06 10:04
green999	and that hints at ‘irregularities’	Mar 06 10:05
oiaohm	MS is not what you call running well at the moment.	Mar 06 10:05
green999	anyway, are there publicly available anti-trust documents for the EU cases?	Mar 06 10:05
oiaohm	Regulater might block MS from self kicking themselves in the nuts.	Mar 06 10:05
green999	MS has been running on fumes since 1998,	Mar 06 10:05
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green999	Bill saw the light at the end of the tunnel and had the sense to notice that it was a train.	Mar 06 10:06
green999	Ballmer’s job was probably to ride the collapsing behemoth into the dirt.	Mar 06 10:06
green999	SCO provided a windfall to allow pump-n-dump for more years	Mar 06 10:06
green999	than expected	Mar 06 10:06
oiaohm	XP was a MS high point.	Mar 06 10:07
oiaohm	Selling a product to people who don’t own computers was a great marketing.	Mar 06 10:07
green999	2000 (aka NT5) was, XP sucked, XP SP2 sucked worse	Mar 06 10:07
green999	go reread the complaints	Mar 06 10:07
green999	in the old rags	Mar 06 10:08
green999	not marketing, but rather racketeering	Mar 06 10:08
schestowitz	green999: agreed	Mar 06 10:08
schestowitz	I reckon the cronies Mcirosoft spread might have something to do with it	Mar 06 10:08
schestowitz	They have been spreading lobbyists around the EU rule.	Mar 06 10:09
green999	s: likely, they are. so when the dust settles, their actions need to be taken into account.	Mar 06 10:09
green999	a lot of member states are kicking out the communists (MS) again	Mar 06 10:09
green999	in some cases for the third or fourth time in as many generations	Mar 06 10:09
green999	some were ‘useful idiots’ others were agitators	Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz	There’s a story about the UK and CR coming	Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz	They are still resorting to corruption	Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz	They fund the country leaders	Mar 06 10:10
green999	what I see now in some areas, in particular where M$ products are on the way out, is a scorched earth policy	Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz	This should be illegal	Mar 06 10:10
green999	s: yes, fund the leaders, also fund the ‘assistants’ to the leaders	Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz	Yes	Mar 06 10:11
schestowitz	CIOs and all	Mar 06 10:11
green999	this one has gone missing:	Mar 06 10:11
green999	http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cach…	Mar 06 10:11
schestowitz	But how can this be countered/	Mar 06 10:11
oiaohm	Opensource also works on a scorched earth policy	Mar 06 10:11
oiaohm	Sun learnt that one.	Mar 06 10:11
oiaohm	Pushs price that low that no closed source can live once good enough.	Mar 06 10:12
green999	o: not so much, the fifth columnists are going for th 5-year contracts now, and involving formats and protocols like never before	Mar 06 10:12
green999	you’ll find a lot of places that are using fewer internet protocols than before.	Mar 06 10:12
oiaohm	Really did you need that many protocals.	Mar 06 10:13
green999	much of the economic down turn can be tracked back to the harmful practices and inefficiences brought on by use of MS products	Mar 06 10:13
green999	o: are you trolling? DNS is rather important, it’s one of the protocols disappearing from MS shops	Mar 06 10:13
green999	IMAPS and POP were early casulties	Mar 06 10:14
oiaohm	try running ADS without DNS	Mar 06 10:14
green999	hard to say about SMTP, it seems also to be on the way out from MS shops – if there is an opportunity	Mar 06 10:14
oiaohm	It don’t work.	Mar 06 10:14
green999	Who are you trying to kid. ADS don’t work.	Mar 06 10:14
green999	period	Mar 06 10:14
oiaohm	ADS does kinda work after some major patching.	Mar 06 10:15
green999	This anti-trust document is also missing:	Mar 06 10:15
green999	http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleas…	Mar 06 10:15
*schestowitz looks		Mar 06 10:17
schestowitz	Should we make a copy from cache?	Mar 06 10:18
schestowitz	I personally think Microsoft poisoned EU panels	Mar 06 10:18
schestowitz	It sure seems like we could find many cronies inside	Mar 06 10:18
schestowitz	And Microsoft is known well for doing this type of things.	Mar 06 10:18
green999	it would be useful to post the membership if there are links to MS	Mar 06 10:19
green999	Finding nothing about browser antitrust in EUR-Lex:	Mar 06 10:20
green999	http://eur-lex.europa.eu/RE…	Mar 06 10:20
schestowitz	Can you find out names and connections?	Mar 06 10:22
schestowitz	Also, how can these people be tossed?	Mar 06 10:22
green999	s: looks like more committee stacking: http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar…	Mar 06 10:22
schestowitz	The more there are of them inside, the more protection they get from within	Mar 06 10:22
schestowitz	It’s like ISO…	Mar 06 10:22
green999	Or google	Mar 06 10:22
green999	Or yahoo	Mar 06 10:22
schestowitz	Yes, I know	Mar 06 10:24
schestowitz	The Microsoft influence	Mar 06 10:25
schestowitz	They think they are the “Good Guys”	Mar 06 10:25
*conley has quit (“Leaving.”)		Mar 06 10:25
schestowitz	Serving a “philanthropist”	Mar 06 10:25
oiaohm	schestowitz: are you seeing what I am the blance of positive review of Linux are up compared to negetive compared to 6 months ago?	Mar 06 10:25
schestowitz	I don’t follow	Mar 06 10:25
green999	I doubt that they consider themselves good, many of the internal documents show that the compare themselves to villains	Mar 06 10:26
oiaohm	Epp	Mar 06 10:26
green999	and follow a ‘jihad’ against all non-believers	Mar 06 10:26
green999	turning technology decisions into matters of “faith”	Mar 06 10:26
green999	junk science legacy perhaps	Mar 06 10:26
oiaohm	Sorry there seams to be lot more postive reviews for Linux and less negetive reviews compared to 6 months ago.	Mar 06 10:27
oiaohm	My english went south on that one line.	Mar 06 10:27
MinceR	the ones doing the original “jihad” believe themselves to be good, too	Mar 06 10:27
green999	o: I’m still seeing a lot of ‘damning through faint praise’ and/or peddling of msftified distros (that don’t need to be mentioned)	Mar 06 10:27
schestowitz	green999: yes, they compare themselves to villains	Mar 06 10:29
schestowitz	Or warriors (“war”)	Mar 06 10:29
green999	very much villains	Mar 06 10:29
schestowitz	Abramoff, Gates Senior’s buddy, recited Godfather stuff.	Mar 06 10:29
oiaohm	MS has always had a War footing.	Mar 06 10:29
green999	it’s hard to find a group that has caused more economic harm	Mar 06 10:30
oiaohm	Gates started the company on that footing.	Mar 06 10:30
oiaohm	Win at any cost.	Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz	oiaohm: abosolutely	Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz	Linux gets very good reviews recently.	Mar 06 10:30
green999	gates started on his mom’s footing	Mar 06 10:30
green999	and on IBMs monopoly	Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz	The distributions are in good shape	Mar 06 10:30
green999	The distros are very good,	Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz	KDE 4.2, Debian Lenny, etc.	Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz	Fedora 10 looking good..	Mar 06 10:30
green999	but keep in mind that fedora and debian, whether you use them or not are important investments	Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz	Microsoft is busy trying to illegalise these	Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz	SFLC is hiring another lawyer now	Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz	I have some angry posts coming	Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz	Mcirosoft corruptions (more of it)	Mar 06 10:31
green999	solaris10 not so good, I’ll have to check out Solaris/Debian (nexenta)	Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz	I saw some articles about it yesterday	Mar 06 10:32
schestowitz	Are you “needs sunlight”?	Mar 06 10:32
green999	corruptions and perhaps a heavy dose of petty vindictiveness behind office 2007 deployments	Mar 06 10:32
schestowitz	The lockinware	Mar 06 10:33
oiaohm	Most people I know who use 2007 are sooner or latter driven nuts by it.	Mar 06 10:33
schestowitz	But they’ll give Office for free soon	Mar 06 10:33
schestowitz	They already do to an extent	Mar 06 10:33
schestowitz	They lose the battle over office suites too	Mar 06 10:33
oiaohm	Reason who had the dumb idea to automatically change buttons displayed.	Mar 06 10:33
schestowitz	WIndows is alreadt a freebie where Linux reigns	Mar 06 10:33
green999	they’ve been giving away office at “greater than” 90 percent discouts for a long time now	Mar 06 10:33
oiaohm	MS Office + Adware	Mar 06 10:34
oiaohm	How long before some ISP works out how to swap the MS addware with there own.	Mar 06 10:34
green999	o: according to the patents acquired windows+adware	Mar 06 10:34
oiaohm	Adware has prior art	Mar 06 10:34
oiaohm	Even OS embeded addware	Mar 06 10:35
*vida18 (i=564af0dd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-87cc14f852f5a2cf) has joined #boycottnovell		Mar 06 10:35
oiaohm	The bad bit the prior art is a virus.	Mar 06 10:35
vida18	http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux_co…	Mar 06 10:36
oiaohm	That makes MS losing patent case at risk of damage	Mar 06 10:37
schestowitz	vida18: yes, I know.	Mar 06 10:37
schestowitz	I will write about this later	Mar 06 10:37
oiaohm	If the patent is proven 100 percent invalid in a court of law. MS could go for taking money under false pretences.	Mar 06 10:38
green999	o: last I heard at a conference regarding sw patents, it takes years to overturn just one	Mar 06 10:39
oiaohm	Depends	Mar 06 10:39
green999	and even then at a cost of (back then) over 4 million dollars per patent	Mar 06 10:39
oiaohm	Do you go threw the review process.	Mar 06 10:39
oiaohm	Or do you go threw the legal process.	Mar 06 10:39
green999	USPTO gets paid by volume not by quality	Mar 06 10:39
oiaohm	Legal process can be over quite quicky.	Mar 06 10:40
green999	say for the sake of argument you can shoot one down with 4 billable hours	Mar 06 10:40
oiaohm	Legal process needs a trigger and normally less than 6 months to invalidate.	Mar 06 10:40
oiaohm	Ie some company has to be dumb enough to try to enforce there patents on someone who will not take it.	Mar 06 10:41
green999	4 x 5000 = 20000 hours @ 400/hour = 8 000 000	Mar 06 10:41
green999	they don’t have to enforce, just threaten litigation	Mar 06 10:41
oiaohm	Threaten litigation is enough.	Mar 06 10:41
oiaohm	If they say what patent is involved.	Mar 06 10:41
green999	the company executives will scuttle off to the bank with their tails between their legs so fast you’ll hear a sonic boom	Mar 06 10:42
oiaohm	Depends on the company.	Mar 06 10:42
*vida18 (i=564af0dd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-87cc14f852f5a2cf) has left #boycottnovell		Mar 06 10:42
oiaohm	Redhat has a pure challage patent policy.	Mar 06 10:42
green999	and the company’s budget	Mar 06 10:42
oiaohm	Once proved valid then they will pay.	Mar 06 10:42
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.250.231.191) has joined #boycottnovell		Mar 06 10:42
green999	o: no, once they run out of money for defence they will pay	Mar 06 10:43
_Hicham_	Hi All	Mar 06 10:43
oiaohm	Legally they can demard that if someone tries to enforce a patent as well in a court of law.	Mar 06 10:43
green999	there’s a difference	Mar 06 10:43
oiaohm	Funny enough its patent holder in Redhat cases who have had to prove that there was no existing prior art.	Mar 06 10:43
green999	can’t prove a negative, go back to 10th grade	Mar 06 10:43
_Hicham_	who is claiming patents over redhat?	Mar 06 10:43
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oiaohm	Past cases _Hicham_	Mar 06 10:44
_Hicham_	ok	Mar 06 10:44
oiaohm	Most companies don’t dare try any more.	Mar 06 10:44
_Hicham_	no company can sue RedHat	Mar 06 10:44
oiaohm	Its too god darn expensive to try to make Redhat pay up.	Mar 06 10:44
_Hicham_	it is a sacred company	Mar 06 10:44
schestowitz	green999: Microsoft is dying: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft_…	Mar 06 10:45
_Hicham_	it always got its job well done	Mar 06 10:45
oiaohm	Redhat laywers are smart.	Mar 06 10:45
oiaohm	If someone took out a patent really they should have done a prior art search.	Mar 06 10:45
green999	red hat is a big company the executives can afford big lawyers	Mar 06 10:46
oiaohm	So if they cannot provide documents of a prior art search that has been well done the patent must not be valid.	Mar 06 10:46
green999	your average 1-man webshop can’t	Mar 06 10:46
green999	your average 20-man webshop can’t	Mar 06 10:46
oiaohm	Funny enough redhat way a 1man shop could do it.	Mar 06 10:46
oiaohm	Since most of the cost land on the person trying to enforce the patent.	Mar 06 10:46
_Hicham_	RedHat shows how to make money from Linux, while being faithful to FOSS	Mar 06 10:46
oiaohm	Answer what right a person really does have to enforce a patent if they have not checked if its valid or not.	Mar 06 10:47
oiaohm	Law answer is none.	Mar 06 10:48
_Hicham_	they can’t apply a patent over RedHat, because all of its producted are copyrighted	Mar 06 10:48
green999	h: google shows how to make money from linux while being (mostly) faithful to FOSS	Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_	you won’t have a single piece of software from RedHat that it is not copyrighted and well protected	Mar 06 10:49
green999	h: and volkswagen	Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_	Google?	Mar 06 10:49
green999	h: and tomtom	Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_	?	Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_	?	Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_	?	Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_	?	Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_	google is not faithful to FOSS	Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_	and you know that	Mar 06 10:49
green999	and erine ball guitars	Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_	especially with its last browser	Mar 06 10:49
oiaohm	Google is majorally faithful.	Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_	Chrome is based on open source Chromium	Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz	green999: I got a few E-mails from DiBona last night	Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_	but Chrome isnt open source	Mar 06 10:50
green999	s: cool	Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz	I still think Google receives too much credit	Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_	hi Roy	Mar 06 10:50
green999	s: what’s the word	Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz	It uses Linux	Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz	But it’s open soure/Linux mentality	Mar 06 10:50
oiaohm	Chrome and chromium are ths same thing.	Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz	Not Free software/GNU/GPL	Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz	It still snubs AGPL	Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_	Roy, Google uses Linux	Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_	no	Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_	not the same things	Mar 06 10:50
oiaohm	Google obeys licences.	Mar 06 10:50
green999	google still gets too much credit, but if they msfters were excised from the staff, it would both gain credibility and profitability	Mar 06 10:50
oiaohm	Even redhat has some closed source bits.	Mar 06 10:50
green999	google still does an excellent job on the kernel	Mar 06 10:51
_Hicham_	there is a big difference	Mar 06 10:51
schestowitz	Yeah..	Mar 06 10:51
oiaohm	Also google respect the intent of Licences as well.	Mar 06 10:51
_Hicham_	google contribute to the kernel, because it will help them on their servers	Mar 06 10:51
_Hicham_	gws	Mar 06 10:51
_Hicham_	Chrome has at least one spyware	Mar 06 10:51
oiaohm	Ok google still a closed source company.	Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_	it has been proven	Mar 06 10:52
oiaohm	What spyware is that.	Mar 06 10:52
oiaohm	Please don’t be the same one in firefox.	Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_	no	Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_	Firefox is another thing	Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_	Chrome create a key in the registry	Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_	which is very suspicious	Mar 06 10:53
_Hicham_	it has to do with elevated privilegies	Mar 06 10:53
_Hicham_	it is a hidden ActiveX	Mar 06 10:53
oiaohm	Chromuim secuirty framework.	Mar 06 10:53
_Hicham_	no	Mar 06 10:54
_Hicham_	if you compile it from source, you won’t get that	Mar 06 10:54
green999	activex is spyware, but it only runs on outdated systems that are already unsafe for net use	Mar 06 10:54
_Hicham_	Windows is always unsafe for net use	Mar 06 10:55
_Hicham_	the ActiveX runs hidden inside IE	Mar 06 10:55
_Hicham_	I heard also that the anti-phishing filter in Firefox belongs to Google	Mar 06 10:57
_Hicham_	but I am not sure about that…	Mar 06 10:58
schestowitz	Sounds possible	Mar 06 10:58
oiaohm	Yep google is the only one who has enought data to make a anti-phishing filter that works.	Mar 06 10:58
schestowitz	But didn’t they remove such a feature	Mar 06 10:58
schestowitz	?	Mar 06 10:58
_Hicham_	no	Mar 06 10:58
_Hicham_	it still exists in Firefox	Mar 06 10:58
*MinceR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Mar 06 11:00
_Hicham_	Mozilla is always cooperating with Google	Mar 06 11:00
_Hicham_	they have just extended their cooperation till 2011 or 2012, I don’t remember…	Mar 06 11:01
oiaohm	Google funds a lot of different things.	Mar 06 11:01
_Hicham_	yes	Mar 06 11:01
_Hicham_	to defend its position on the market	Mar 06 11:01
oiaohm	Google summer of code is a interesting one.	Mar 06 11:02
_Hicham_	but the policy taken with Chrome isnt for FOSS	Mar 06 11:02
_Hicham_	yes GoSC is great	Mar 06 11:02
_Hicham_	Chrome is based on WTL	Mar 06 11:03
green999	GSOC 2009 starts 9 march	Mar 06 11:03
_Hicham_	have you ever you heard of WTL?	Mar 06 11:03
_Hicham_	Roy?	Mar 06 11:03
_Hicham_	Roy is silent	Mar 06 11:03
_Hicham_	O:-)	Mar 06 11:04
oiaohm	Chrome was never intendend to last long term.	Mar 06 11:04
_Hicham_	what do u mean oiaohm?	Mar 06 11:04
oiaohm	It was intended to be a testing ground for new internet secuirty systems.	Mar 06 11:04
oiaohm	With a open enough licence that even Microsoft could have picked up sections of the tech.	Mar 06 11:05
oiaohm	Its another Linux style project. It has not gone where google intented now they are along for the ride trying to work out what to do.	Mar 06 11:05