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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 6th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 11:30 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


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To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.

Balrog cool. Mar 06 00:00
_Hicham_ Roy, a cup of tea plz Mar 06 00:00
wispygalaxy do you like to cook, roy Mar 06 00:00
wispygalaxy i like baking stuff too Mar 06 00:00
_Hicham_ Roy seems to be a good cooker Mar 06 00:01
wispygalaxy i got an A in cooking class haha Mar 06 00:01
schestowitz me? Mar 06 00:01
schestowitz Cook? Mar 06 00:01
wispygalaxy i can make stir fry really well Mar 06 00:01
wispygalaxy yes you :) Mar 06 00:01
schestowitz No, I’m just boiling water now Mar 06 00:01
wispygalaxy i can do that too ;) Mar 06 00:02
schestowitz Cuisine is a culture thing Mar 06 00:02
schestowitz Maybe more relevant in the more distant past Mar 06 00:02
wispygalaxy it’s kinda relaxing to do Mar 06 00:03
schestowitz And for arrogant suits who pretend that tiny appetizers and 10 plates with ‘samples’ in one meal makes them important Mar 06 00:03
schestowitz A lot of food can be mass-produced these days Mar 06 00:03
schestowitz Even cakes Mar 06 00:03
wispygalaxy making a cake for someone shows that you care about them Mar 06 00:03
wispygalaxy i do that for my family Mar 06 00:03
schestowitz Factories automate a lof of the process and even reduce energy consumption compared to duplication of effort at homes. Mar 06 00:03
PetoKraus roy indeed seems to be a good cooker! Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz Problem is, this enables reckless populationb growth Mar 06 00:04
PetoKraus an electric one with ceramic plate! Mar 06 00:04
wispygalaxy hey pk! Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz And one day when energy crisis hits people can starve Mar 06 00:04
wispygalaxy haha Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz Not funny Mar 06 00:04
wispygalaxy i was talking to pk haha Mar 06 00:04
PetoKraus i’m sorry, but this typo is actually quite amusing ;) Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz PetoKraus: Hehe. Mar 06 00:04
schestowitz I missed that one Mar 06 00:04
wispygalaxy roy you got mad at me :( Mar 06 00:05
schestowitz No, why|? Mar 06 00:05
schestowitz Because text carried no emotion or tone? Mar 06 00:05
wispygalaxy it’s easy to misinterpret things Mar 06 00:05
PetoKraus this memory leak is retarded Mar 06 00:06
wispygalaxy online i mean Mar 06 00:06
PetoKraus brb Mar 06 00:06
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Balrog everyone can boil water :P Mar 06 00:06
wispygalaxy i did for my chem class Mar 06 00:07
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wispygalaxy i miss science class experiments Mar 06 00:07
PetoKraus there we go, 1200MB ram freed by simple Xorg restart Mar 06 00:07
wispygalaxy i have to take one science course in order to graduate Mar 06 00:07
Balrog heh Mar 06 00:07
wispygalaxy cool pk Mar 06 00:07
Balrog I’m doing physics, so that’s a lot of science courses Mar 06 00:07
PetoKraus it isn’t cool Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus it’s annoying Mar 06 00:08
Balrog what?!?! Which Xorg are you using? Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus 1.6.0 Mar 06 00:08
Balrog ew Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus i presume the bug is in the ati driver Mar 06 00:08
Balrog better than 1.5.x? Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus well Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus it has a bloody memleak Mar 06 00:08
Balrog I heard that Arch Linux moved the ati driver out of the main repo? Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus yes Mar 06 00:08
wispygalaxy when you have to do experiments and write lab reports, i hate that Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus arch is The Revolution againist GPU drivers Mar 06 00:08
PetoKraus fglrx pushed out to community/aur Mar 06 00:09
_Hicham_ PetKraus : what ATI card to u have? Mar 06 00:09
schestowitz MSI finally does Linux: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/20… Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus in the same week AMD said they are dropping support for anything older than R500 Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus _Hicham_: Mobility Radeon X1400 Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus see, that’s a good idea actually Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus i might try radeonhd Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus !!!!! Mar 06 00:09
wispygalaxy instant on?  wow! Mar 06 00:09
schestowitz PetoKraus: what eats it all up (RAM)? Mar 06 00:09
PetoKraus xorg Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz Use diagnostics to get… OH Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz xorg? Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus xorg Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz How come? Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus the server Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus and if i use xrestop, it doesn’t show anything Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus anything more than 3MB Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz PetoKraus: so don’t use x Mar 06 00:10
schestowitz there are cli-based irc clients Mar 06 00:10
PetoKraus :D Mar 06 00:11
schestowitz and lynx Mar 06 00:11
PetoKraus sure Mar 06 00:11
_Hicham_ PetoKraus : what distribution is this? Mar 06 00:11
PetoKraus Arch Linux Mar 06 00:11
PetoKraus i’ll be right back Mar 06 00:11
PetoKraus with radeonhd Mar 06 00:11
wispygalaxy is arch one of the fastest distros? Mar 06 00:11
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schestowitz Seems likely Mar 06 00:11
schestowitz There goes X down again? Mar 06 00:11
wispygalaxy are you using red hat now roy? Mar 06 00:11
schestowitz No. Mar 06 00:11
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schestowitz I’d rather move to BLAG or Debian next Mar 06 00:12
wispygalaxy what do you use Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz But I also like Mand Mar 06 00:12
PetoKraus there we go Mar 06 00:12
wispygalaxy go for debian, duh ;) Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz The sooner Microsoft goes the better Mar 06 00:12
_Hicham_ roy, what are u using right now? Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz If Mand and others can patiently wait for MS’ Chapter 11, that’ll be a boon for them Mar 06 00:12
PetoKraus chapter 11? Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz _Hicham_: mandriva 2008.1 mostly Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz It’s my second partition Mar 06 00:12
PetoKraus that’s bankrupcy? Mar 06 00:12
wispygalaxy bankrupcy Mar 06 00:12
schestowitz yes Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz They begged for bailout Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz It figures Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy kmart filed for that Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz kmart can be acuired by kde Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz fits well Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy haha! Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz *acquired Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy kool Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz Even KDE renamed apps Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz At least in the menus Mar 06 00:13
schestowitz KIMP Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy kash register Mar 06 00:13
wispygalaxy kosmetics aisle Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz KA-NOME Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz Komo Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz Mono.. Mar 06 00:14
Balrog haha Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz Kumo Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz Kumo is a bad name Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz Association of another Microsoft death Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz Like Equipt, remember? Mar 06 00:14
schestowitz Or SPOT watch? Mar 06 00:14
wispygalaxy yep Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz Hehe. Flight Simulator……. RIP… bit bucket.. Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz Did Microsoft buy Flight Simulatos? Mar 06 00:15
_Hicham_ do u like everything being named with K in KDE? Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz Maybe they wish there were never bought Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz Microsoft shut down Enseble last year Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz It f*ed over Bungie as well. Mar 06 00:15
wispygalaxy i had flight simulator with win 3.1 Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz *Ensembl;e Mar 06 00:15
schestowitz _Hicham_: it’s not good marketing Mar 06 00:16
wispygalaxy i was so afraid of crashing in that game that i stayed far away from the ground Mar 06 00:16
schestowitz I had migraines with Win 3.1 Mar 06 00:16
_Hicham_ Qt is completely GPLed now Mar 06 00:16
wispygalaxy heh mustard theme Mar 06 00:16
schestowitz Seriously now… Windows 3.1 has Solitaire… maybe the only useful part in it Mar 06 00:16
schestowitz Then there was THIRD-PART s/w. Mar 06 00:16
wispygalaxy my dad loved that game Mar 06 00:16
wispygalaxy solitaire Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz *Party. That’s why Microsoft still holds on to something Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz Breaking standards and screwing over os/2 as well Mar 06 00:17
wispygalaxy that sucks Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz I need to do those exhibits sometimes Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz Maybe you’ll help me. Mar 06 00:17
schestowitz Cock County Sues Craigslist Over Prostitution Ads < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160803/cook_coun… > Mar 06 00:18
wispygalaxy ok we’ll see what we can do, sounds cool Mar 06 00:18
wispygalaxy cock county? lol Mar 06 00:18
schestowitz That’s how I read it first Mar 06 00:19
schestowitz This one I read as : Microsoft Ditches Surface to New Markets < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160768/microsoft_p… > Mar 06 00:19
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Balrog Flight Simulator … that was one good MS product I used to use … thew bought it back in the 80′s and it got better until lately Mar 06 00:21
wispygalaxy i hit restart by mistake haha Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz wispygalaxy: gone to Hispterville? Mar 06 00:22
Balrog and now they cancel it :( Mar 06 00:22
wispygalaxy i left the channel for a second Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz Balrog: MS is in seriously deep mud Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz Like Sun Mar 06 00:22
wispygalaxy nope XD Mar 06 00:22
Balrog wispygalaxy: any reason you’re using mibbit? Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz But Microsoft had money to buy back stock Mar 06 00:22
wispygalaxy my sis is a hipster, kinda Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz And it had power to corrupt Mar 06 00:22
schestowitz In the press and in DC Mar 06 00:22
Balrog schestowitz: I know. It sucks for us, the users Mar 06 00:22
wispygalaxy it’s convenient lol Mar 06 00:23
Balrog the good products die, the bad ones keep going Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz So people don’t get told how seriously f*ed they are and they corrupt the system with stuff like patents Mar 06 00:23
Balrog I use irssi via ssh Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz Their new business model is like SCO’s Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz But they needed to corrupt some systems for it Mar 06 00:23
wispygalaxy cool balrog Mar 06 00:23
Balrog though SCO was more blatant Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz Including EPO and the India patents bureau Mar 06 00:23
wispygalaxy sco is dead Mar 06 00:23
schestowitz wispygalaxy: hippie >> hipster Mar 06 00:24
Balrog ??? Mar 06 00:24
Balrog sco is pretty much dead Mar 06 00:24
wispygalaxy hipsters are different in the usa Mar 06 00:24
schestowitz Yes, it is Mar 06 00:24
wispygalaxy they are kinda like punks, but more artsy Mar 06 00:24
schestowitz Like Duke Nukem Mar 06 00:24
schestowitz It’s there, somewhere Mar 06 00:24
schestowitz In abandonware Mar 06 00:24
wispygalaxy haha DNF Mar 06 00:24
Balrog what’s the argument about hippies and hipsters? I don’t subscribe to either ideology :P Mar 06 00:25
wispygalaxy good haha Mar 06 00:25
wispygalaxy hipsters try too hard Mar 06 00:25
schestowitz Like yddgdrasil.. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c… Mar 06 00:25
wispygalaxy high priced clothing and all Mar 06 00:25
schestowitz “Driivng the economy” Mar 06 00:26
wispygalaxy cool chart Mar 06 00:26
wispygalaxy linux is a teen still Mar 06 00:26
schestowitz “Hi, I’m a hipster… and I’m a Bee Cee (BC)” Mar 06 00:27
schestowitz Joing the future… get gnu Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy lmao Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy my sis doesn’t have a mac though Mar 06 00:27
Balrog Yes I use Macs … but I’m not a hippie or a hipster :P Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy she has a toshiba like me Mar 06 00:27
Balrog I’ve worked with Toshibas Mar 06 00:27
PetoKraus apart from arch not being based on cru Mar 06 00:27
Balrog the driver support sucks badly Mar 06 00:27
PetoKraus *crux Mar 06 00:27
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/up… Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy yeah it does :( Mar 06 00:27
wispygalaxy hp is easier to deal with’ Mar 06 00:28
wispygalaxy lol @ the pic Mar 06 00:28
PetoKraus monoooooooooooooo Mar 06 00:28
Balrog well Mac does emphasize proper engineering very highly … yes there’s still advertising Mar 06 00:28
wispygalaxy i though you said moooo lol Mar 06 00:28
wispygalaxy sry haha Mar 06 00:28
Balrog but if you look at how the system is put together, it’s quite organized Mar 06 00:29
wispygalaxy have you made a hackintosh before Mar 06 00:29
Balrog like the application / file package scheme … works very well. No one else uses it Mar 06 00:29
Balrog Yes, I have. Not very successful, as I don’t have a Core2 system to play around with Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy awesome :) Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy at least you did it Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy i couldn’t do that now Mar 06 00:30
Balrog Yeah. I had 10.4 working for a while Mar 06 00:30
Balrog wispygalaxy: why not? Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy not leet enough :( Mar 06 00:30
wispygalaxy but you seem really smart balrog Mar 06 00:31
Balrog that’s what people say Mar 06 00:31
wispygalaxy double major is a sign of that :) Mar 06 00:31
Balrog but there’s a lot I don’t know Mar 06 00:31
Balrog heh lol Mar 06 00:31
wispygalaxy admitting that makes you appear wise Mar 06 00:32
wispygalaxy they say people who arent smart overestimate themselves Mar 06 00:32
wispygalaxy and say they know everything Mar 06 00:32
wispygalaxy i learned that in psychology Mar 06 00:32
Balrog like I don’t know C … I can read it and partially understand it, but I can’t write in it Mar 06 00:32
wispygalaxy the people who are intelligent know that they have shortcomings Mar 06 00:32
Balrog heh … know everything Mar 06 00:33
Balrog lol Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy know-it-alls haha Mar 06 00:33
Balrog yeah Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy linux is in c, right? Mar 06 00:33
Balrog C and C++ Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy the kernel i mean Mar 06 00:33
Balrog yes Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy cool Mar 06 00:33
wispygalaxy gtk is C++ Mar 06 00:33
Balrog I’d go with Qt though these days Mar 06 00:34
wispygalaxy that’s neat Mar 06 00:34
schestowitz PetoKraus: shouldn’t it be moooooooooooooooooono? I know bulls and gnus don’t moo, but sitll… Mar 06 00:34
wispygalaxy haha! Mar 06 00:35
Balrog the Mac kernel is in C/C++, but apps are in this combination of C and Smalltalk (an object-oriented language originally used by Xerox for their PARC GUI stuff; somewhat like Java) called Objective-C Mar 06 00:35
Balrog but that’s just the GUI part Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy cool i didnt know that balrog Mar 06 00:35
Balrog and there’s a Qt library Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy convenient ;) Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy rofl, someone’s computer in my dorm just said “you got mail” Mar 06 00:35
Balrog heh Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy really loudly Mar 06 00:35
Balrog I hate AOL Mar 06 00:35
wispygalaxy i never used it thankfully lol Mar 06 00:36
Balrog I use AIM, but they don’t care for your account Mar 06 00:36
schestowitz It used to be my mail notifier Mar 06 00:36
wispygalaxy but i have used IM Mar 06 00:36
schestowitz [When I was like 16] Mar 06 00:36
wispygalaxy cool roy Mar 06 00:36
Balrog my friends use IM, so I do too Mar 06 00:36
wispygalaxy i havent used my IM account since 2005 Mar 06 00:36
wispygalaxy i have gtalk Mar 06 00:37
Balrog facebook IM is becoming more popular … though the ‘clients’ for it are all hacks Mar 06 00:37
Balrog ;P Mar 06 00:37
wispygalaxy heh Mar 06 00:37
Balrog they pretend to be a web browser and interact with the web page chat system Mar 06 00:37
schestowitz Author claims political pressure behind cancellation of Stalin book < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/m… > Grrrrrr… Mar 06 00:37
schestowitz Censorship. Mar 06 00:37
wispygalaxy hiding the truth? Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz AOL AWOL Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz wispygalaxy: dunno, haven’t read it yet Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz RMS linked to this Mar 06 00:38
wispygalaxy really?  cool Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jan-apr…. ” US financial companies spent 5 billion dollars on lobbying and political campaigns to procure the deregulation that allowed them to create the financial crisis. I don’t see any sign that Obama wants to change the system which lets businesses control our so-called democracy. “ Mar 06 00:38
wispygalaxy thats interesting balrog Mar 06 00:38
Balrog I’m not surprised. Russia is getting worse. :/ Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz Only $5 billion? Mar 06 00:38
schestowitz Hey, we could chip in too and counter that, right? Mar 06 00:39
wispygalaxy lobbyists ugh Mar 06 00:39
schestowitz That’s many billions in pockets of corruptible ‘Representatives’ (of their families) Mar 06 00:39
wispygalaxy i read supercapitalism, it talks all about lobbyists Mar 06 00:39
schestowitz The system needs to be scraped Mar 06 00:39
schestowitz London’s the same BTW Mar 06 00:39
wispygalaxy i want to go to london Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz They tried to revive regulations last year (El Reg report) Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz Too little, too late Mar 06 00:40
Balrog schestowitz: what do you mean by ‘the system’? Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz The UK is in debt of $3 trillion. Mar 06 00:40
wispygalaxy wow Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz Time to work for the man (China) Mar 06 00:40
Balrog the IS is in debt like 9 or 10 trillion Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz Balrog: system=political system Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz Sorry, I know “system” can mean all sorts of things Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz Lessig has a project Mar 06 00:40
wispygalaxy i though “the man” = RIAA Mar 06 00:40
wispygalaxy ;) Mar 06 00:40
schestowitz “Change Congress” Mar 06 00:40
Balrog the current political system does not meet the ideals that were set over 200 years ago Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz Made me sound there like Communista Anarchista talking about “the system”.. Mar 06 00:41
Balrog >90% of ‘representatives’ are lawyers … does that ‘represent’ the population fairly? Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz yes i know Mar 06 00:41
wispygalaxy the consistution was made so that change could be incorporated Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz Same in Europe Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz British MPs = layers Mar 06 00:41
schestowitz Sarko too Mar 06 00:42
Balrog but the constitution isn’t being followed Mar 06 00:42
schestowitz Bush was in charge Mar 06 00:42
wispygalaxy very sad :( Mar 06 00:42
schestowitz Saving the country from the wrath of the Iraquis Mar 06 00:42
schestowitz Scary Mar 06 00:42
schestowitz Need MARSHALL Mar 06 00:42
wispygalaxy we should respect ourselves more Mar 06 00:42
Balrog and then you have these laws that are 100s or 1000s of pages … how do you know what you’re passing????? Mar 06 00:42
Balrog come on Mar 06 00:42
wispygalaxy my english teacher admitted in high school that he rarely reads contracts closely, he reads the first paragraph and signs it lol Mar 06 00:43
schestowitz Brave Cowboy George survives the imaginary ‘Lybian assassins’ who chased him down in DC Mar 06 00:43
wispygalaxy yeah i cant imagine reading 1000s pages Mar 06 00:43
Balrog heh…if you SIGN something, you better read it Mar 06 00:43
wispygalaxy he said whatever haha Mar 06 00:43
Balrog and idk how click-to-agree license agreements can be enforced Mar 06 00:43
schestowitz Today: MPAA Study Calls For Piracy Patriot Act < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/03/05… > Mar 06 00:44
schestowitz Stop the sharers Mar 06 00:44
wispygalaxy we talked about that in my business law class balrog Mar 06 00:44
schestowitz They are killing pople Mar 06 00:44
schestowitz They have guns and NU-ki-lar weapons Mar 06 00:44
wispygalaxy there needs to be more done about sigs Mar 06 00:44
schestowitz There’s the Lisbon one Mar 06 00:45
schestowitz Hold on… good video Mar 06 00:45
wispygalaxy riaa is worse, imo Mar 06 00:45
wispygalaxy with regards to freedom Mar 06 00:45
Balrog we have the RIAA, the MPAA, and the BSA Mar 06 00:45
Balrog among others Mar 06 00:45
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09/acta… Mar 06 00:45
Balrog probably in that order Mar 06 00:45
schestowitz Watch that first video about the length of the doc Mar 06 00:45
wispygalaxy true balrog Mar 06 00:45
Balrog and what about so-called ‘abandonware’? Mar 06 00:45
schestowitz BSA = Gates’ friends Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz There are family connections there Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz How to beat FOSS? Mar 06 00:46
Balrog yeah I hear stories….:/ Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz Set up ‘indpendent ‘ bodies Mar 06 00:46
wispygalaxy abandonware games Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz Write down some rules Mar 06 00:46
wispygalaxy foss will win Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz Pay billions to those ‘bodies’ (buddies) to shill and legalise them Mar 06 00:46
Balrog the people I work for (sysadmins) are convinced that the BSA is with MS Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz E.g. sw patents in EU Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz That’s white collar crimes Mar 06 00:46
schestowitz But they believe they do it for the betterment of society\] Mar 06 00:46
Balrog foss will probably have a big part…like 40% or more and it will be on every computer Mar 06 00:47
wispygalaxy NOT Mar 06 00:47
schestowitz I asked Zuck, “how do you sleep at night?” Mar 06 00:47
wispygalaxy i hope so balrog Mar 06 00:47
schestowitz “Think about what you’re doing” Mar 06 00:47
schestowitz Short or wrapping his house in toilet paper Mar 06 00:47
schestowitz Or doing this: http://www.egg-attack.com/ Mar 06 00:48
Balrog Macs already have a good bit of FOSS; Linux is taking the other part of the market (lower-cost, people who don’t want macs, people who don’t care, etc) Mar 06 00:48
wispygalaxy my sister’s friend’s house was Toilet papered once Mar 06 00:48
wispygalaxy one kid hated her Mar 06 00:48
*Balrog never heard of such things Mar 06 00:48
wispygalaxy so my sis had to help her clean it up, to be a good friend Mar 06 00:48
Balrog heh Mar 06 00:49
wispygalaxy they got it cleaned up before the sun came up, whew Mar 06 00:49
wispygalaxy my dad saw it when he came home late from work, they immediately started cleaning it up Mar 06 00:50
wispygalaxy my dorm was TP’d too this year haha Mar 06 00:50
Balrog that’s not stuff I heard about before Mar 06 00:50
wispygalaxy not my room, the outside i mean Mar 06 00:50
wispygalaxy trees Mar 06 00:51
Balrog oh Mar 06 00:51
wispygalaxy it was for halloween Mar 06 00:51
Balrog http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/0… Mar 06 00:51
Balrog UAC is broken badly Mar 06 00:51
schestowitz In BN Mar 06 00:51
Balrog ?? Mar 06 00:52
Balrog and Mar 06 00:52
Balrog http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/… Mar 06 00:52
wispygalaxy good links, balrog Mar 06 00:53
wispygalaxy i’m playing the egg attack game now XD Mar 06 00:54
schestowitz I’ve just realised that Microsoft named a filesystem after its CEO Mar 06 00:54
Balrog which one? Mar 06 00:54
wispygalaxy FAT Mar 06 00:54
Balrog heh Mar 06 00:54
wispygalaxy rofl roy Mar 06 00:55
Balrog gates? Mar 06 00:55
Balrog doesn’t sound right Mar 06 00:55
schestowitz They didn’t invest Perl Mar 06 00:55
Balrog gates != FAT Mar 06 00:55
schestowitz For Pearly gates Mar 06 00:55
wispygalaxy i thought ballmer Mar 06 00:55
Balrog ballmer is only now their ceo Mar 06 00:55
Balrog when fat appeared, gates was the ceo Mar 06 00:55
schestowitz Linux made two projects Mar 06 00:55
wispygalaxy it still fits haha Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz Both are named after him Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz *Linus Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz Linux, Git Mar 06 00:56
Balrog yeah lol Mar 06 00:56
wispygalaxy lol Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz British slang Mar 06 00:56
Balrog I read about it Mar 06 00:56
schestowitz I knew Ballmer/FAT was all about patents Mar 06 00:57
schestowitz “Cancer” this, “cancel” that Mar 06 00:57
wispygalaxy hah Mar 06 00:57
Balrog but how can you enforce a patent after 14 years? Mar 06 00:57
Balrog well, Unisys did it with GIF Mar 06 00:57
schestowitz Cancer.NET, cancel Flight Simulator Mar 06 00:57
Balrog see what has happened to GIF today Mar 06 00:57
Balrog yeah, Flight Simulator … the quite-large community is very upset Mar 06 00:58
wispygalaxy i have to go guys, talk to you soon! Mar 06 00:58
Balrog many are switching to mac / linux Mar 06 00:58
Balrog talk later :) Mar 06 00:58
wispygalaxy take care balrog! Mar 06 00:58
Balrog yeah … Mar 06 00:59
wispygalaxy i’ll see you later, roy!  ;) Mar 06 01:00
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schestowitz Vista vulnerabilities March on  < http://www.itwire.com/content… > Mar 06 01:01
schestowitz Balrog: yes, hold on. Mar 06 01:02
schestowitz I posted about this recently. Mar 06 01:02
schestowitz The open source subs are taking off (pun) Mar 06 01:02
Balrog the open-source flight simulator is nowhere near the other available stuff Mar 06 01:02
schestowitz Here. The mother load: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linu… Mar 06 01:02
Balrog which is a $50 product from an independent developer anyway Mar 06 01:03
Balrog (scenery costs money to produce) Mar 06 01:03
Balrog keep that in mind … it’s not exactly ‘software’ Mar 06 01:03
Balrog The Qt SDK does NOT support Visual Studio :) Mar 06 01:04
Balrog (there’s a beta addin though ) Mar 06 01:04
schestowitz Hehe. Mar 06 01:06
schestowitz Microsoft hates VS addons Mar 06 01:06
Balrog sure they do Mar 06 01:06
schestowitz I suppose you may have heard the banned MVP story Mar 06 01:06
Balrog explain Mar 06 01:07
schestowitz How dare he add value to VS Mar 06 01:07
schestowitz Wait.. Mar 06 01:07
schestowitz Found it. Read this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/20/wi… Mar 06 01:08
schestowitz You’ll see there what I’m referring to Mar 06 01:08
schestowitz “Microsoft threatens its Most Valuable Professional” Mar 06 01:08
Balrog I see. Mar 06 01:10
Balrog what do you think of the LLVM / Clang project? Mar 06 01:10
schestowitz Weird… http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/34842 Mar 06 01:12
schestowitz This got pulled Mar 06 01:12
schestowitz To keep eye on (needs post tomorrow morning): rosoft patent protection pacts Mar 06 01:16
schestowitz * http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux_compa… Mar 06 01:16
Balrog it was moved: http://www.fsf.org/blogs/communi… Mar 06 01:18
Balrog schestowitz: got it? Mar 06 01:19
Balrog http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n… Mar 06 01:20
Balrog “A group at the University of Washington also showed how simple it was to attract bogus infringement notices; even a network-attached printer was identified as a culprit.” Mar 06 01:20
Balrog hehe Mar 06 01:20
Balrog interesting … there was one MS MVP who reverse engineered flight simulator code to add hooks for external apps Mar 06 01:25
Balrog MS didn’t complain Mar 06 01:25
schestowitz Ubuntu or Xubuntu? It’s getting harder to choose < http://www.procrasticfantastic.com/u… > Mar 06 01:26
Balrog go with Kubuntu Mar 06 01:26
Balrog KDE4.2 is great Mar 06 01:26
schestowitz Hehe. Printer ‘pirating’? Mar 06 01:27
schestowitz Put an eye patch and hood  on it Mar 06 01:27
Balrog yeah Mar 06 01:27
schestowitz Paint a frown on it Mar 06 01:27
schestowitz Balrog: not /my/ question, blog title there. Mar 06 01:27
Balrog though NAS ‘pirating’ is sure possible :) Mar 06 01:28
Balrog yeah I know Mar 06 01:28
schestowitz I see that Matt Lee wrote him Mar 06 01:28
schestowitz I know him and met him. Mar 06 01:28
schestowitz You could DDOS the MAFIAA like this Mar 06 01:29
Balrog wrote whom? Mar 06 01:29
schestowitz Set up things that are mock copyrighted content Mar 06 01:29
Balrog yeah :P Mar 06 01:29
schestowitz Auhomate the processes Mar 06 01:29
schestowitz Flood their detection system Mar 06 01:30
Balrog they do that on the torrent sites … make a bogus torrent, encrypt it Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz The problem with these rules is that whole familities will get disconnected over disputed to do with legal stuff Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz Like torrenting an issue of a Linux mag Mar 06 01:30
Balrog you spend hours downloading it, then find out it’s 0′s Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz Good luck wasting hours on the phone retracting the “first strike” Mar 06 01:30
Balrog yeah :/ Mar 06 01:30
Balrog or Qt 4.5 Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz Most people won’t bother Mar 06 01:30
schestowitz When 3rd hits they’ll say “why didn’t you complain the first time?” Mar 06 01:31
Balrog yeah Mar 06 01:31
schestowitz “To speak to an operator, please press 5…. hold on while we dead with other ‘stikes’ [music plays like an elevator]“ Mar 06 01:31
Balrog where’s the proof? innocent BEFORE proven guilty, right????? Mar 06 01:31
schestowitz *deal with other ‘strikes’ Mar 06 01:31
Balrog use a blocklist / peerguardian to begin with Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz Not good for MAFIAA Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz They own the Web Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz First they shoot Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz But /SOME/ people /MIGHT/ use it just to do legit stuff… like me Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz How dare I use their Interwebs? Mar 06 01:32
Balrog yeah. Mar 06 01:32
schestowitz How long I haven’t used this wallpaper: http://www.detector-pro.com/2009/03/linux-tip-ho… Mar 06 01:33
schestowitz “I’m still sticking with KDE 4.2.0 as my everyday desktop and enjoying most of it though:)” http://home.coming.dk/index.php/2009/03… Mar 06 01:33
Balrog he should update to 4.2.1 Mar 06 01:34
Balrog I can’t use KDE4.2 because of the old nvidia driver that requires Xorg 1.4 Mar 06 01:34
Balrog KDE4.2 requires Xorg 1.5 Mar 06 01:35
schestowitz Hehe.  Microsoft Office for netbooks being prepared < http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/appl… >. They move to an advertising model now? Mar 06 01:36
schestowitz They are killing themselves Mar 06 01:36
Balrog advertising is no replacement for a good product Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz Giving their stuff away for free due to SAAS/FOSS (Google/OOo) Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz That’s not a steady business model for the VOle Mar 06 01:37
Balrog with a bad product, advertising won’t help Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz Advertising in office I mean Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz I read about it earlier Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz I think they want to embed ads Mar 06 01:37
schestowitz Like in Works Mar 06 01:37
Balrog ew. Mar 06 01:38
Balrog making it adware Mar 06 01:38
schestowitz Yes Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz OOo was heading the same way Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz Maybe still is Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz Jonathan Schwartz went defensive Mar 06 01:39
Balrog I don’t think it is Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz And Go-OO won’t allow that to happen Mar 06 01:39
schestowitz Mitchell Baker has a curious hairstyle: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/03/… Mar 06 01:40
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schestowitz Firefox 3.0.7 security and stability release now available < https://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.p… > Mar 06 01:41
schestowitz A Better Solitaire. < http://www.oneclicklinux.com/2009/03/… >. Party in Linux like you’re a Microsoft-certified Solitaire Engineer Mar 06 01:41
Balrog who runs Go-OO? Mar 06 01:43
balzac What a bad opening sentence in that article: Firefox has long been the Burger King to er’s McDonalds Mar 06 01:45
balzac my pasted string got mangled Mar 06 01:45
balzac Firefox has long been the Burger King to Internet Explorer&#8217;s McDonald&#8217;s. Mar 06 01:46
balzac Internet Explorer is more like a Big Mac made  with bovine estrogen and other hormones, farmer’s anti-biotics, bovine spongiform encephalitis, and a percentage of fecal content. Mar 06 01:48
balzac Firefox is more like a burger made from organic farming methods, perhaps even an organic vegan burger. Mar 06 01:49
Balrog well not fully Mar 06 01:50
Balrog there’s the name thing Mar 06 01:50
Balrog firefox / iceweasel Mar 06 01:50
balzac are you referring to FF trademarking? Mar 06 01:53
Balrog yes Mar 06 01:54
balzac I’m not very familiar with that discussion Mar 06 01:54
schestowitz The Microsoft goons are crapping out libel again Mar 06 01:56
schestowitz That old ‘plant’ of theirs Mar 06 01:57
schestowitz C.O.L.A. is a mess. Hundreds of times they’ve posted (and planted ‘on my behalf’) stories about me changing sexes and molesting children etc etc.  Schmidt was right about the Internet becoming a “cesspool”. I worry there’s no easy solution. Mar 06 01:59
Balrog hrrm Mar 06 02:00
Balrog C.O.L.A? Mar 06 02:00
schestowitz Yes Mar 06 02:01
schestowitz USENET Mar 06 02:01
Balrog who are they? Mar 06 02:01
schestowitz Microsoft Munchkins Mar 06 02:01
schestowitz I killfile them Mar 06 02:02
schestowitz Time wasters Mar 06 02:02
Balrog usenet is known for that Mar 06 02:02
schestowitz They achieve the very opposite of what they try.. Mar 06 02:02
schestowitz Rather than demote, their constant attack draw attention. Mar 06 02:02
schestowitz They sometimes just point to things that I write Mar 06 02:02
Balrog heh Mar 06 02:03
schestowitz They give more exposure but maybe they can’t help it. If they were wise, they’d ignore Mar 06 02:03
Balrog heh yeah Mar 06 02:04
schestowitz It’s like free publicity, not that I’d read their junk Mar 06 02:05
Balrog I don’t even use usenet Mar 06 02:05
schestowitz By choosing nonsensical attacks like “sex change” they arouse immediate realisation that it’s just a lie Mar 06 02:05
Balrog obviously Mar 06 02:06
schestowitz Eventually people just check for the truth, come to my site or whatever… so what have the trolls aschieved with their libel? Streisand effect. Mar 06 02:06
Balrog heh Mar 06 02:06
Balrog that’s how it works Mar 06 02:06
twitter the trolls were trying to make you quit, Roy. Mar 06 02:08
twitter they wanted your work to be so unpleasant that no normal person would bother. Mar 06 02:08
twitter boy did they get that wrong, ha ha. Mar 06 02:08
Balrog that’s the type of troll that’s an idiot Mar 06 02:08
Balrog that’s been shown through history Mar 06 02:08
schestowitz Could be worse. Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz Like Ken’s Mar 06 02:09
twitter no, the attacks can be effective. Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz They attacked himphysically Mar 06 02:09
twitter Ken who? Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz And it makes him even /more/ respected. Mar 06 02:09
Balrog certain ones can Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz twitter: you didn’t hear Mar 06 02:09
schestowitz See BN Mar 06 02:09
Balrog but a few people will go to the site to see what’s up Mar 06 02:10
twitter I’ve been trying to get a few things done.  Missed the news Mar 06 02:10
Balrog I didn’t see it Mar 06 02:10
schestowitz ignore, laught, attack (patents), physical attack, lose Mar 06 02:10
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schestowitz Hey, indiana Mar 06 02:10
schestowitz Balrog: it’s the post with a photo of an angry kid Mar 06 02:10
schestowitz tessier contibuted the second story Mar 06 02:11
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Balrog I see. Mar 06 02:12
twitter a lot of tempers are short lately.  The M$ people deserve what they get though.  For decades they have smugly sat on the “popularity” of their crap and bullied everyone else. Mar 06 02:13
twitter It’s hard to tell if the attack on Ken was random or planned. Mar 06 02:13
twitter bullies, sooner or later, resort to real violence Mar 06 02:13
twitter I was trying to tell Balrog that the verbal attacks can be effective, even if they are crazy.  Try explaining the nonsense to your family. Mar 06 02:14
Balrog of course they are effective Mar 06 02:15
Balrog in the short term Mar 06 02:15
twitter It takes a very special and principled family to back someone like Roy in the face of that kind of abuse against the weight of the Wintel press and the M$ monopoly. Mar 06 02:15
twitter Most people look to “practical” matters, such as the stink such attacks can put on a job search. Mar 06 02:18
Balrog Try tracing me with ‘Balrog’ Mar 06 02:18
Balrog good luck :p Mar 06 02:18
twitter Unless you are using TOR, your ISP knows who you are and so do M$ and the other bad guys. Mar 06 02:19
schestowitz Yes, they leak it Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz Its goons are anyway Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz In USENET Mar 06 02:20
Balrog Sure they do. Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz It’s a form of intimidation Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz There’s no anonymity, not even with TOR Mar 06 02:20
twitter So, you only conceal yourself from friends and would be employers. Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz Determined people need only query once Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz This was discused here in IRC over 6 months ago Mar 06 02:20
schestowitz http://bil-gates.blogspot.com/ “Gates met Noorda briefly in San Francisco to discuss the merger […] before the merger could go forward, he said Novell had to drop its plans to buy Digital Research. […] “ Mar 06 02:21
Balrog what would help is stripping hostnames from IRC logs Mar 06 02:22
schestowitz “when Noorda raised the possibility that the Justice Department might try to block a merger between the first and third biggest software companies on the planet, Gates responded, “Don’t worry, we know how to handle the federal government.” […] Gates denied every saying such a thing”” Mar 06 02:22
twitter If everyone used TOR and other privacy protecting software, anonymity might be real. Mar 06 02:22
Balrog TOR is slow. Mar 06 02:22
Balrog too slow for practical use Mar 06 02:22
Balrog :( Mar 06 02:22
schestowitz In germany they cracked down on TOR Mar 06 02:22
twitter It would be faster if more people used it. Mar 06 02:22
twitter It should be against the law to interfere with communications like that. Mar 06 02:23
Balrog I’m using a difficult-to-trace univ. network connection anyway Mar 06 02:23
twitter University networks are now some of the most monitored. Mar 06 02:23
Balrog depends on how it’s connected Mar 06 02:23
twitter The bad guys will know who you are and harass you. Mar 06 02:24
twitter This should only make you fight harder. Mar 06 02:24
Balrog they’d have to find out Mar 06 02:24
Balrog not very easy in this situation… Mar 06 02:24
Balrog though if there were real reasons, they could find out (ie subpoena) Mar 06 02:24
Balrog I’ll be around later Mar 06 02:25
twitter they don’t need one of those, they just need a friend and they have plenty of idiots willing to help Mar 06 02:25
twitter Just know what you are getting into.  If you are successful at converting people or are well published, they will find you out and take whatever actions they can. Mar 06 02:27
schestowitz Yes, they need an ISP to give them a snoop Mar 06 02:28
schestowitz Telecoms do this all the time Mar 06 02:28
schestowitz These are just kids on the phones. Mar 06 02:28
schestowitz Even politicians are more corruptible. Mar 06 02:29
schestowitz People think of ‘laws’ and ‘rules’ as something that will prevent people from having fun with DBs Mar 06 02:29
balzac ls Mar 06 02:31
balzac oops Mar 06 02:31
twitter Looks like a random encounter, but the water was poisoned with lots of hate, ->  Memos” had been circulated amongst the management teams, giving advice and training on how best to deal with the “Open Source Threat” Mar 06 02:33
twitter LOL,  “We schedule a technician visit for six months in the future with every home visit.  Both they and we know their registries and computers will be messed up again by then.” Mar 06 02:35
schestowitz Balrog: could be worse. Balrog once typed in a password into IRC Mar 06 02:37
schestowitz cd /home/roy/stash Mar 06 02:37
schestowitz oops Mar 06 02:37
balzac that would suck Mar 06 02:43
twitter nah, just find a new one. Mar 06 02:44
twitter My favorite method is going away with my books though. Mar 06 02:46
twitter I like to make up passwords from highlighted sentences in reference books.  Remember the phrase and the password soon passes into muscle memory. Mar 06 02:47
twitter Ouch, a good comment, ” when it gets physical, you know the other side has run out of rational arguments. They can no longer hide the fact that the broken window fallacy is just that. Essentially, you’re living proof these people are parasites. Of course they can’t stand you.” Mar 06 02:48
balzac i’m really pissed just now Mar 06 02:51
balzac I found out I obliterated a file that took me a long time to make Mar 06 02:51
schestowitz No backup? Mar 06 02:55
balzac nope Mar 06 02:55
balzac oh well, it’ll be easier the second time… god damn it Mar 06 02:55
balzac This moron client has been on my back Mar 06 02:55
balzac so I’ve been under extra stress Mar 06 02:56
balzac well, the part I deleted won’t be too hard to re-create Mar 06 02:57
balzac But I didn’t plan to spend my evening working on it Mar 06 02:59
balzac Yesterday, i was fantasizing of filling a sock with dirt to hit the client over the head with.. Mar 06 03:00
schestowitz gn Mar 06 03:00
balzac night Mar 06 03:00
balzac that would be a very long password Mar 06 03:36
balzac twitter: Mar 06 03:36
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schestowitz Morning Mar 06 09:21
PetoKraus zorg Mar 06 09:29
PetoKraus http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/13662 Mar 06 09:30
MinceR Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg? Mar 06 09:35
PetoKraus maybe Mar 06 09:36
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green999 The anti-competitive and predatory antitrust problems with the browser market have dragged on for what’s getting to be close to two decades. Mar 06 10:02
green999 The EU has picked up where the bush junta dropped the ball. Mar 06 10:02
green999 mib_vmjz3y Mar 06 10:02
green999 http://www.networkcomputing.in/News-02… Mar 06 10:02
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schestowitz Yes, I know. Mar 06 10:03
green999 Where are the authoritative complaint and finding-of-fact materials for the EU case posted? Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz I don’t know Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz They make press release Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz *ases Mar 06 10:03
oiaohm EU stopped monitering on MS. Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz *releases Mar 06 10:03
schestowitz oiaohm: not exactly. Mar 06 10:04
schestowitz They just laid off (sort of) a full-time watchers Mar 06 10:04
schestowitz *watcher Mar 06 10:04
oiaohm Now that either means they trust them or they trust that nature will take it course. Mar 06 10:04
schestowitz They still have cases Mar 06 10:04
green999 oiaohm: the cessation of oversight is a problem Mar 06 10:04
green999 the decision to do so seems out of order Mar 06 10:04
oiaohm Not really. Mar 06 10:04
green999 and that hints at ‘irregularities’ Mar 06 10:05
oiaohm MS is not what you call running well at the moment. Mar 06 10:05
green999 anyway, are there publicly available anti-trust documents for the EU cases? Mar 06 10:05
oiaohm Regulater might block MS from self kicking themselves in the nuts. Mar 06 10:05
green999 MS has been running on fumes since 1998, Mar 06 10:05
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green999 Bill saw the light at the end of the tunnel and had the sense to notice that it was a train. Mar 06 10:06
green999 Ballmer’s job was probably to ride the collapsing behemoth into the dirt. Mar 06 10:06
green999 SCO provided a windfall to allow pump-n-dump for more years Mar 06 10:06
green999 than expected Mar 06 10:06
oiaohm XP was a MS high point. Mar 06 10:07
oiaohm Selling a product to people who don’t own computers was a great marketing. Mar 06 10:07
green999 2000 (aka NT5) was, XP sucked, XP SP2 sucked worse Mar 06 10:07
green999 go reread the complaints Mar 06 10:07
green999 in the old rags Mar 06 10:08
green999 not marketing, but rather racketeering Mar 06 10:08
schestowitz green999: agreed Mar 06 10:08
schestowitz I reckon the cronies Mcirosoft spread might have something to do with it Mar 06 10:08
schestowitz They have been spreading lobbyists around the EU rule. Mar 06 10:09
green999 s: likely, they are.  so when the dust settles, their actions need to be taken into account. Mar 06 10:09
green999 a lot of member states are kicking out the communists (MS) again Mar 06 10:09
green999 in some cases for the third or fourth time in as many generations Mar 06 10:09
green999 some were ‘useful idiots’ others were agitators Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz There’s a story about the UK and CR coming Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz They are still resorting to corruption Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz They fund the country leaders Mar 06 10:10
green999 what I see now in some areas, in particular where M$ products are on the way out, is a scorched earth policy Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz This should be illegal Mar 06 10:10
green999 s: yes, fund the leaders, also fund the ‘assistants’ to the leaders Mar 06 10:10
schestowitz Yes Mar 06 10:11
schestowitz CIOs and all Mar 06 10:11
green999 this one has gone missing: Mar 06 10:11
green999… Mar 06 10:11
schestowitz But how can this be countered/ Mar 06 10:11
oiaohm Opensource also works on a scorched earth policy Mar 06 10:11
oiaohm Sun learnt that one. Mar 06 10:11
oiaohm Pushs price that low that no closed source can live once good enough. Mar 06 10:12
green999 o: not so much, the fifth columnists are going for th 5-year contracts now, and involving formats and protocols like never before Mar 06 10:12
green999 you’ll find a lot of places that are using fewer internet protocols than before. Mar 06 10:12
oiaohm Really did you need that many protocals. Mar 06 10:13
green999 much of the economic down turn can be tracked back to the harmful practices and inefficiences brought on by use of MS products Mar 06 10:13
green999 o: are you trolling?  DNS is rather important, it’s one of the protocols disappearing from MS shops Mar 06 10:13
green999 IMAPS and POP were early casulties Mar 06 10:14
oiaohm try running ADS without DNS Mar 06 10:14
green999 hard to say about SMTP, it seems also to be on the way out from MS shops – if there is an opportunity Mar 06 10:14
oiaohm It don’t work. Mar 06 10:14
green999 Who are you trying to kid.  ADS don’t work. Mar 06 10:14
green999 period Mar 06 10:14
oiaohm ADS does kinda work after some major patching. Mar 06 10:15
green999 This anti-trust document is also missing: Mar 06 10:15
green999 http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleas… Mar 06 10:15
*schestowitz looks Mar 06 10:17
schestowitz Should we make a copy from cache? Mar 06 10:18
schestowitz I personally think Microsoft poisoned EU panels Mar 06 10:18
schestowitz It sure seems like we could find many cronies inside Mar 06 10:18
schestowitz And Microsoft is known well for doing this type of things. Mar 06 10:18
green999 it would be useful to post the membership if there are links to MS Mar 06 10:19
green999 Finding nothing about browser antitrust in EUR-Lex: Mar 06 10:20
green999 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/RE… Mar 06 10:20
schestowitz Can you find out names and connections? Mar 06 10:22
schestowitz Also, how can these people be tossed? Mar 06 10:22
green999 s: looks like more committee stacking: http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar… Mar 06 10:22
schestowitz The more there are of them inside, the more protection they get from within Mar 06 10:22
schestowitz It’s like ISO… Mar 06 10:22
green999 Or google Mar 06 10:22
green999 Or yahoo Mar 06 10:22
schestowitz Yes, I know Mar 06 10:24
schestowitz The Microsoft influence Mar 06 10:25
schestowitz They think they are the “Good Guys” Mar 06 10:25
*conley has quit (“Leaving.”) Mar 06 10:25
schestowitz Serving a “philanthropist” Mar 06 10:25
oiaohm schestowitz: are you seeing what I am the blance of positive review of Linux are up compared to negetive compared to 6 months ago? Mar 06 10:25
schestowitz I don’t follow Mar 06 10:25
green999 I doubt that they consider themselves good, many of the internal documents show that the compare themselves to villains Mar 06 10:26
oiaohm Epp Mar 06 10:26
green999 and follow a ‘jihad’ against all non-believers Mar 06 10:26
green999 turning technology decisions into matters of “faith” Mar 06 10:26
green999 junk science legacy perhaps Mar 06 10:26
oiaohm Sorry there seams to be lot more postive reviews for Linux and less negetive reviews compared to 6 months ago. Mar 06 10:27
oiaohm My english went south on that one line. Mar 06 10:27
MinceR the ones doing the original “jihad” believe themselves to be good, too Mar 06 10:27
green999 o: I’m still seeing a lot of ‘damning through faint praise’ and/or peddling of msftified distros (that don’t need to be mentioned) Mar 06 10:27
schestowitz green999: yes, they compare themselves to villains Mar 06 10:29
schestowitz Or warriors (“war”) Mar 06 10:29
green999 very much villains Mar 06 10:29
schestowitz Abramoff, Gates Senior’s buddy, recited Godfather stuff. Mar 06 10:29
oiaohm MS has always had a War footing. Mar 06 10:29
green999 it’s hard to find a group that has caused more economic harm Mar 06 10:30
oiaohm Gates started the company on that footing. Mar 06 10:30
oiaohm Win at any cost. Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz oiaohm: abosolutely Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz Linux gets very good reviews recently. Mar 06 10:30
green999 gates started on his mom’s footing Mar 06 10:30
green999 and on IBMs monopoly Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz The distributions are in good shape Mar 06 10:30
green999 The distros are very good, Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz KDE 4.2, Debian Lenny, etc. Mar 06 10:30
schestowitz Fedora 10 looking good.. Mar 06 10:30
green999 but keep in mind that fedora and debian, whether you use them or not are important investments Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz Microsoft is busy trying to illegalise these Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz SFLC is hiring another lawyer now Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz I have some angry posts coming Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz Mcirosoft corruptions (more of it) Mar 06 10:31
green999 solaris10 not so good, I’ll have to check out Solaris/Debian (nexenta) Mar 06 10:31
schestowitz I saw some articles about it yesterday Mar 06 10:32
schestowitz Are you “needs sunlight”? Mar 06 10:32
green999 corruptions and perhaps a heavy dose of petty vindictiveness behind office 2007 deployments Mar 06 10:32
schestowitz The lockinware Mar 06 10:33
oiaohm Most people I know who use 2007 are sooner or latter driven nuts by it. Mar 06 10:33
schestowitz But they’ll give Office for free soon Mar 06 10:33
schestowitz They already do to an extent Mar 06 10:33
schestowitz They lose the battle over office suites too Mar 06 10:33
oiaohm Reason who had the dumb idea to automatically change buttons displayed. Mar 06 10:33
schestowitz WIndows is alreadt a freebie where Linux reigns Mar 06 10:33
green999 they’ve been giving away office at “greater than” 90 percent discouts for a long time now Mar 06 10:33
oiaohm MS Office + Adware Mar 06 10:34
oiaohm How long before some ISP works out how to swap the MS addware with there own. Mar 06 10:34
green999 o: according to the patents acquired windows+adware Mar 06 10:34
oiaohm Adware has prior art Mar 06 10:34
oiaohm Even OS embeded addware Mar 06 10:35
*vida18 (i=564af0dd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-87cc14f852f5a2cf) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 06 10:35
oiaohm The bad bit the prior art is a virus. Mar 06 10:35
vida18 http://blogs.computerworld.com/linux_co… Mar 06 10:36
oiaohm That makes MS losing patent case at risk of damage Mar 06 10:37
schestowitz vida18: yes, I know. Mar 06 10:37
schestowitz I will write about this later Mar 06 10:37
oiaohm If the patent is proven 100 percent invalid in a court of law.  MS could go for taking money under false pretences. Mar 06 10:38
green999 o: last I heard at a conference regarding sw patents, it takes years to overturn just one Mar 06 10:39
oiaohm Depends Mar 06 10:39
green999 and even then at a cost of (back then) over 4 million dollars per patent Mar 06 10:39
oiaohm Do you go threw the review process. Mar 06 10:39
oiaohm Or do you go threw the legal process. Mar 06 10:39
green999 USPTO gets paid by volume not by quality Mar 06 10:39
oiaohm Legal process can be over quite quicky. Mar 06 10:40
green999 say for the sake of argument you can shoot one down with 4 billable hours Mar 06 10:40
oiaohm Legal process needs a trigger and normally less than 6 months to invalidate. Mar 06 10:40
oiaohm Ie some company has to be dumb enough to try to enforce there patents on someone who will not take it. Mar 06 10:41
green999 4 x 5000 = 20000 hours @ 400/hour = 8 000 000 Mar 06 10:41
green999 they don’t have to enforce, just threaten litigation Mar 06 10:41
oiaohm Threaten litigation is enough. Mar 06 10:41
oiaohm If they say what patent is involved. Mar 06 10:41
green999 the company executives will scuttle off to the bank with their tails between their legs so fast you’ll hear a sonic boom Mar 06 10:42
oiaohm Depends on the company. Mar 06 10:42
*vida18 (i=564af0dd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-87cc14f852f5a2cf) has left #boycottnovell Mar 06 10:42
oiaohm Redhat has a pure challage patent policy. Mar 06 10:42
green999 and the company’s budget Mar 06 10:42
oiaohm Once proved valid then they will pay. Mar 06 10:42
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@ has joined #boycottnovell Mar 06 10:42
green999 o: no, once they run out of money for defence they will pay Mar 06 10:43
_Hicham_ Hi All Mar 06 10:43
oiaohm Legally they can demard that if someone tries to enforce a patent as well in a court of law. Mar 06 10:43
green999 there’s a difference ;) Mar 06 10:43
oiaohm Funny enough its patent holder in Redhat cases who have had to prove that there was no existing prior art. Mar 06 10:43
green999 can’t prove a negative, go back to 10th grade ;) Mar 06 10:43
_Hicham_ who is claiming patents over redhat? Mar 06 10:43
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oiaohm Past cases _Hicham_ Mar 06 10:44
_Hicham_ ok Mar 06 10:44
oiaohm Most companies don’t dare try any more. Mar 06 10:44
_Hicham_ no company can sue RedHat Mar 06 10:44
oiaohm Its too god darn expensive to try to make Redhat pay up. Mar 06 10:44
_Hicham_ it is a sacred company Mar 06 10:44
schestowitz green999: Microsoft is dying: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft_… Mar 06 10:45
_Hicham_ it always got its job well done Mar 06 10:45
oiaohm Redhat laywers are smart. Mar 06 10:45
oiaohm If someone took out a patent really they should have done a prior art search. Mar 06 10:45
green999 red hat is a big company  the executives can afford big lawyers Mar 06 10:46
oiaohm So if they cannot provide documents of a prior art search that has been well done the patent must not be valid. Mar 06 10:46
green999 your average 1-man webshop can’t Mar 06 10:46
green999 your average 20-man webshop can’t Mar 06 10:46
oiaohm Funny enough redhat way a 1man shop could do it. Mar 06 10:46
oiaohm Since most of the cost land on the person trying to enforce the patent. Mar 06 10:46
_Hicham_ RedHat shows how to make money from Linux, while being faithful to FOSS Mar 06 10:46
oiaohm Answer what right a person really does have to enforce a patent if they have not checked if its valid or not. Mar 06 10:47
oiaohm Law answer is none. Mar 06 10:48
_Hicham_ they can’t apply a patent over RedHat, because all of its producted are copyrighted Mar 06 10:48
green999 h: google shows how to make money from linux while being (mostly) faithful to FOSS Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_ you won’t have a single piece of software from RedHat that it is not copyrighted and well protected Mar 06 10:49
green999 h: and volkswagen Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_ Google? Mar 06 10:49
green999 h: and tomtom Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_ ? Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_ ? Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_ ? Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_ ? Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_ google is not faithful to FOSS Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_ and you know that Mar 06 10:49
green999 and erine ball guitars Mar 06 10:49
_Hicham_ especially with its last browser Mar 06 10:49
oiaohm Google is majorally faithful. Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_ Chrome is based on open source Chromium Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz green999: I got a few E-mails from DiBona last night Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_ but Chrome isnt open source Mar 06 10:50
green999 s: cool Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz I still think Google receives too much credit Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_ hi Roy Mar 06 10:50
green999 s: what’s the word Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz It uses Linux Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz But it’s open soure/Linux mentality Mar 06 10:50
oiaohm Chrome and chromium are ths same thing. Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz Not Free software/GNU/GPL Mar 06 10:50
schestowitz It still snubs AGPL Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_ Roy, Google uses Linux Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_ no Mar 06 10:50
_Hicham_ not the same things Mar 06 10:50
oiaohm Google obeys licences. Mar 06 10:50
green999 google still gets too much credit, but if they msfters were excised from the staff, it would both gain credibility and profitability Mar 06 10:50
oiaohm Even redhat has some closed source bits. Mar 06 10:50
green999 google still does an excellent job on the kernel Mar 06 10:51
_Hicham_ there is a big difference Mar 06 10:51
schestowitz Yeah.. Mar 06 10:51
oiaohm Also google respect the intent of Licences as well. Mar 06 10:51
_Hicham_ google contribute to the kernel, because it will help them on their servers Mar 06 10:51
_Hicham_ gws Mar 06 10:51
_Hicham_ Chrome has at least one spyware Mar 06 10:51
oiaohm Ok google still a closed source company. Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_ it has been proven Mar 06 10:52
oiaohm What spyware is that. Mar 06 10:52
oiaohm Please don’t be the same one in firefox. Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_ no Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_ Firefox is another thing Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_ Chrome create a key in the registry Mar 06 10:52
_Hicham_ which is very suspicious Mar 06 10:53
_Hicham_ it has to do with elevated privilegies Mar 06 10:53
_Hicham_ it is a hidden ActiveX Mar 06 10:53
oiaohm Chromuim secuirty framework. Mar 06 10:53
_Hicham_ no Mar 06 10:54
_Hicham_ if you compile it from source, you won’t get that Mar 06 10:54
green999 activex is spyware, but it only runs on outdated systems that are already unsafe for net use Mar 06 10:54
_Hicham_ Windows is always unsafe for net use Mar 06 10:55
_Hicham_ the ActiveX runs hidden inside IE Mar 06 10:55
_Hicham_ I heard also that the anti-phishing filter in Firefox belongs to Google Mar 06 10:57
_Hicham_ but I am not sure about that… Mar 06 10:58
schestowitz Sounds possible Mar 06 10:58
oiaohm Yep google is the only one who has enought data to make a anti-phishing filter that works. Mar 06 10:58
schestowitz But didn’t they remove such a feature Mar 06 10:58
schestowitz ? Mar 06 10:58
_Hicham_ no Mar 06 10:58
_Hicham_ it still exists in Firefox Mar 06 10:58
*MinceR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Mar 06 11:00
_Hicham_ Mozilla is always cooperating with Google Mar 06 11:00
_Hicham_ they have just extended their cooperation till 2011 or 2012, I don’t remember… Mar 06 11:01
oiaohm Google funds a lot of different things. Mar 06 11:01
_Hicham_ yes Mar 06 11:01
_Hicham_ to defend its position on the market Mar 06 11:01
oiaohm Google summer of code is a interesting one. Mar 06 11:02
_Hicham_ but the policy taken with Chrome isnt for FOSS Mar 06 11:02
_Hicham_ yes GoSC is great Mar 06 11:02
_Hicham_ Chrome is based on WTL Mar 06 11:03
green999 GSOC 2009 starts 9 march Mar 06 11:03
_Hicham_ have you ever you heard of WTL? Mar 06 11:03
_Hicham_ Roy? Mar 06 11:03
_Hicham_ Roy is silent Mar 06 11:03
_Hicham_ O:-) Mar 06 11:04
oiaohm Chrome was never intendend to last long term. Mar 06 11:04
_Hicham_ what do u mean oiaohm? Mar 06 11:04
oiaohm It was intended to be a testing ground for new internet secuirty systems. Mar 06 11:04
oiaohm With a open enough licence that even Microsoft could have picked up sections of the tech. Mar 06 11:05
oiaohm Its another Linux style project.  It has not gone where google intented now they are along for the ride trying to work out what to do. Mar 06 11:05
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