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03.29.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 28th, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:05 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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oiaohm Its not good for flash or silverlight. Mar 28 15:19
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zer0c00l schestowitz:http://gracelyne.wordpress.com/200… see comment number 37 Mar 28 15:26
zer0c00l “Microsoft Gave all their Development tools For Free.. . We Didnt ask them” Mar 28 15:27
zer0c00l poor microsoft http://www.microsoft.com/protec… Mar 28 15:31
schestowitz Cigarettes companies too Mar 28 15:31
zer0c00l the link is in the home page Mar 28 15:31
schestowitz It helps Microsoft Mar 28 15:31
zer0c00l :D Mar 28 15:31
schestowitz Contaminate the Web… Mar 28 15:31
_Hicham_ Their Development Tools are not yet free Mar 28 15:33
_Hicham_ Visual Studio Team System + 1 Year Subscription to MSDN = $10,000 Mar 28 15:33
zer0c00l http://www.microsoft.com/protect/comp… they once said “We have changed the way autorun feature works in vista, so that you could plug your pendrive in vista without the fear of virus infection” Mar 28 15:33
zer0c00l seems like this virus bypassed that too Mar 28 15:34
zer0c00l look at the picture Mar 28 15:34
schestowitz OK, back.. was on the phone Mar 28 15:37
schestowitz Microsoft is spreading its tools for free for the same reason it did the OS Mar 28 15:38
_Hicham_ the best solution yet to Removable Media Virii is to disable Autoplay Mar 28 15:38
schestowitz Or Office (OOXML) for that matter Mar 28 15:38
schestowitz It wants to make itself the standard Mar 28 15:38
schestowitz It uses people for network effect Mar 28 15:38
schestowitz To compete with Free software strengths Mar 28 15:38
zer0c00l _Hicham_: the very best solution is to use Gnu/Linux :D Mar 28 15:38
schestowitz But it replaces standards/freedom/fairness with tyranny this way Mar 28 15:38
_Hicham_ zer0c001 : not for everybody Mar 28 15:39
_Hicham_ some Linux Geeks say that Linux is not meant to be popular Mar 28 15:39
_Hicham_ Torvalds himself said that Mar 28 15:39
_Hicham_ A lot of Linux users doesn’t like how Ubuntu is growing Mar 28 15:40
_Hicham_ and that is offering supported closed source software Mar 28 15:40
zer0c00l wubi ? Mar 28 15:40
_Hicham_ no Mar 28 15:40
zer0c00l no upstream contribution? Mar 28 15:40
_Hicham_ Cyberlink PowerDVD for example Mar 28 15:41
_Hicham_ they sell it Mar 28 15:41
zer0c00l Friend of mine is asking some dev tools to develop games in linux Mar 28 15:41
_Hicham_ there is a lot of OpenGL game engines Mar 28 15:41
zer0c00l Any one know any game dev tools /frameworks for gnu/linux Mar 28 15:41
_Hicham_ have u ever used OpenGL? Mar 28 15:42
_Hicham_ they can use OpenGL with GTK Mar 28 15:42
_Hicham_ ie : gtkglext and gtkmmglext Mar 28 15:42
_Hicham_ and Glade by the way Mar 28 15:43
_Hicham_ they can try Anjuta Mar 28 15:43
_Hicham_ or Codeblocks Mar 28 15:43
_Hicham_ I recommend Anjuta as it uses the standard automake/autoconf tools Mar 28 15:43
zer0c00l Anjutha: this name sounds like an india woman name Mar 28 15:44
_Hicham_ yes Mar 28 15:44
zer0c00l *indian Mar 28 15:44
_Hicham_ it was developed by Naba Kumar Mar 28 15:44
_Hicham_ an Indian Developer Mar 28 15:44
*zer0c00l looks Mar 28 15:44
_Hicham_ as a gift to his gf Anjuta Mar 28 15:44
zer0c00l :D Mar 28 15:45
zer0c00l gr8 gift Mar 28 15:45
_Hicham_ have u ever used it? Mar 28 15:45
zer0c00l no Mar 28 15:45
zer0c00l will use it for sure Mar 28 15:45
zer0c00l ;-) Mar 28 15:45
_Hicham_ did u do any dev before? Mar 28 15:45
zer0c00l no Mar 28 15:45
zer0c00l actually not Mar 28 15:45
zer0c00l thought of taking part in gsoc Mar 28 15:46
_Hicham_ great idea Mar 28 15:46
zer0c00l google summer of code Mar 28 15:46
zer0c00l that will be the best place to start i guess Mar 28 15:46
zer0c00l :-) Mar 28 15:46
_Hicham_ what languages do u use? Mar 28 15:47
zer0c00l i know C Mar 28 15:48
zer0c00l started learning python Mar 28 15:48
zer0c00l and shell scripting Mar 28 15:48
zer0c00l i am thinking of contributing to drupal Mar 28 15:49
zer0c00l they are in gsoc Mar 28 15:49
zer0c00l april 3 is the dead line Mar 28 15:49
zer0c00l have to decide and submit proposal Mar 28 15:50
zer0c00l you have any ideas? Mar 28 15:50
zer0c00l http://socghop.appspot.com/program/a… Mar 28 15:51
schestowitz http://digg.com/linux_unix/Nove… “I believe you pronounce SLES as “sleeze”.” Mar 28 15:56
_Hicham_ “read and write Office 2007 file formats” : this isn’t Novell, it is plain OpenOffice3 Mar 28 15:59
_Hicham_ if they were just developing a compatibility .NET ABI for Linux, no one would have talked Mar 28 16:03
_Hicham_ but promoting .NET developing on Linux? Mar 28 16:04
_Hicham_ why the fuck would we need that? Mar 28 16:04
_Hicham_ as if they were saying that .NET is all over the market Mar 28 16:04
_Hicham_ the fact is that J2EE is still having a giant market share Mar 28 16:04
_Hicham_ bigget that .NET Mar 28 16:04
_Hicham_ Microsoft didn’t like it when Sun stopped allowing them to develop their own Java tools Mar 28 16:05
_Hicham_ Remember, Windows 98 had a built-in Java VM Mar 28 16:05
_Hicham_ but after, the license to use Java Source code was pulled from them Mar 28 16:06
_Hicham_ that is when MS felt the threat Mar 28 16:06
_Hicham_ as Java Market was mature Mar 28 16:06
schestowitz Yes.. Mar 28 16:06
schestowitz They use Novell to weaken SUN Mar 28 16:06
schestowitz And Java Mar 28 16:06
schestowitz In more than one way Mar 28 16:07
schestowitz Also OOo Mar 28 16:07
schestowitz They fork or seize control with Go-OOOXML Mar 28 16:07
schestowitz Evil bastards :-) Mar 28 16:07
_Hicham_ C# was developed just to “recover” Mar 28 16:07
_Hicham_ C# was developed to attract Java devs to MS Tools again Mar 28 16:08
_Hicham_ i see it just a plain fucking clone of Java Mar 28 16:08
_Hicham_ but still lacking a lot of the biggest features of Java Mar 28 16:08
_Hicham_ it is just a nasty move from them Mar 28 16:08
_Hicham_ the language that should have won is Python i think Mar 28 16:09
_Hicham_ it is just that some fundamentalist developers didn’t like its weak typing Mar 28 16:09
schestowitz But Novell markets .NET now Mar 28 16:10
schestowitz And Hovo Sapient pretends they still want Java to win Mar 28 16:10
schestowitz While he’s paid by Microsoft to advance .NET as a ‘standard’ Mar 28 16:10
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_Hicham_1 it is sad that Linus has friends in Novell Mar 28 16:13
_Hicham_1 that is what stops him from banning them from Linux World Mar 28 16:14
_Hicham_1 if I had the Linux trademark, I would have banned them immediately Mar 28 16:14
schestowitz Tracking The Online-Only Seattle P-I: Traffic Down 20 Percent < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-maybe… > Mar 28 16:14
_Hicham_1 still, it is a mystery why Ubuntu ships with Mono Runtime by default Mar 28 16:15
schestowitz “It makes some sense: Cut your editorial staff by 80 percent, and there’s at least a decent chance that Web traffic will tumble. And that’s just what has happened at the new online-only Seattle Post-Intelligencer. Page views are down about 20 percent in the week since the newspaper killed its print edition and became an online-only publication.” Mar 28 16:15
_Hicham_1 as if the users are supposed to run .NET apps? Mar 28 16:15
schestowitz They should Mar 28 16:16
schestowitz If they are Novell customers Mar 28 16:17
schestowitz it’s good for Novell Mar 28 16:17
schestowitz Microsoft ally… Mar 28 16:17
schestowitz That’s why I don’t trust Novell. It’s agenda is different from our Mar 28 16:17
schestowitz *ours Mar 28 16:17
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_Hicham_2 If u had the Linux trademark, what would u have done Roy? Mar 28 16:18
schestowitz Firefox is restoring 150 tabs here after a crash Mar 28 16:19
schestowitz _Hicham_: what’s to do with it? Mar 28 16:20
trmanco http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-23/ Mar 28 16:20
schestowitz Linus hardly enforces it Mar 28 16:20
schestowitz There is some company called Linux Gold… in Alaska, IIRC Mar 28 16:20
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_Hicham_ Nobody is talking? Mar 28 16:46
PetoKraus i like the post about Pwn2Own at slashdot Mar 28 16:48
PetoKraus firefox having patched the vulns already Mar 28 16:49
schestowitz Does the exploit target anything but win32? Mar 28 16:49
PetoKraus i don’t think so Mar 28 16:49
PetoKraus but it’s still good :) Mar 28 16:49
schestowitz How far can a firefox exploit go in Linux? Mar 28 16:49
schestowitz It surely can’t self-replicate Mar 28 16:49
schestowitz Can Firefox lead to deletion of file in home_dar? Mar 28 16:50
PetoKraus well, i don’t know Mar 28 16:50
schestowitz *dir Mar 28 16:50
_Hicham_ Roy : why not? Mar 28 16:50
PetoKraus i don’t think you know either Mar 28 16:50
_Hicham_ I think that u can do that with java script Mar 28 16:50
_Hicham_ or a Java applet Mar 28 16:50
_Hicham_ or a Flash Plugin Mar 28 16:51
_Hicham_ we don’t have the source code for this Plugins Mar 28 16:51
_Hicham_ so who knows how secure they are? Mar 28 16:51
_Hicham_ Roy : I think that this is can be with a Java Applet Mar 28 16:52
_Hicham_ all the files with current user permission can be manipulated Mar 28 16:53
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trmanco yime to go Mar 28 16:54
trmanco cya guys Mar 28 16:55
_Hicham_ take care trmanco Mar 28 16:55
schestowitz “There is a thread on boycottnovell about the “boycott boycottnovell crowd”.  Shane made his usual comment that he thinks affiliations and backgrounds aren’t important and the only thing that matters is that we can make good, solid arguments for our positions.” Mar 28 16:56
schestowitz trmanco: have lots of fu Mar 28 16:56
schestowitz *fun… (or fun-fu!) Mar 28 16:56
_Hicham_ fun-fun kung-fu Mar 28 16:57
schestowitz “I responded that it is somewhat interesting and natural to inquire about someone’s background, especially if they are a regular poster who is passionate about his views. I also wrote, that in the case of “Dan O”Brian”, his invectives often cloud his posts and more civility would be helpful here.” Mar 28 16:57
_Hicham_ fan-fu kung-fu Mar 28 16:57
schestowitz We stlll have hecklers from Novell’s next door Mar 28 16:57
_Hicham_ Dan O’Brian is a little sucker Mar 28 16:58
schestowitz Others are annoyed by him too Mar 28 16:58
schestowitz While I don’t mind the heckling/trolling, it does upset other people Mar 28 16:58
schestowitz IOW, it harms the site in some ways Mar 28 16:58
schestowitz “I could also add to the above that “Dan O’Brian” has a penchant for attributing malice where there is none.  I saw, in the “boycott boycottnovell” thread, his “proofs” of your malice and, to me, they were proof of nothing of the sort.” Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz “Even in the worst case, when he mentioned the Wikipedia ACPI article about Jimmi Hugh (sp?), that was a case where the Wikipedia author himself responded and posted his side of the story.” Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz “That seems as clear as it will be unless you have the occasion to post a follow-up.  Nonetheless, “Dan O’Brian” wants to lambast you for not posting a follow-up article.  It’s yet another case where he is right in a narrow sense but where he fails to reconcile his view with the big picture.” Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz “This seems to be a consistent problem with him.  I also note some past threads where he corrected some inaccuracies in your articles and went on to proudly proclaim that “Mono is free software.”  Again, he is technically correct there, but he fails to understand the possibility that this might easily be some kind of judo trick by Microsoft against free software. “ Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz “What better way to fight free software than with free software.  Free software that is a second class citizen to proprietary software is OK for him?  He also ignores explicit Microsoft quotes that they consider Mono to be covered by their patents and that they reserve the right to sue.” Mar 28 16:59
schestowitz “I suppose that he also has no answer for the Microsoft patent litigation regarding Tomtom’s use of the FAT filesystem in the Linux kernel.  That certainly weakens assertions that Microsoft wouldn’t bring a patent suit against free software.  It seems that “Dan O’Brien” is too entrenched in his opinions to notice.” Mar 28 16:59
_Hicham_ He may be a little Novell employee Mar 28 17:00
_Hicham_ Novell is just wasting time Mar 28 17:00
_Hicham_ instead of taking strategic decisions Mar 28 17:00
_Hicham_ It is sad that some devs like Kroah Hartman are working for them Mar 28 17:01
_Hicham_ Novell isn’t run by the devs Mar 28 17:01
_Hicham_ the devs are considered just morons over there Mar 28 17:01
_Hicham_ I hate those nasty managers Mar 28 17:01
_Hicham_ why the fuck let a manager who doesn’t know a shit about software run a company? Mar 28 17:02
_Hicham_ Microsoft uses Novell to counter RedHat Mar 28 17:08
_Hicham_ Novell is a slutty whore Mar 28 17:09
schestowitz It could use the money though Mar 28 17:09
schestowitz I reckon Novell is not far from bankruptcy Mar 28 17:10
schestowitz But in the US, nobody knows until you file for it Mar 28 17:10
schestowitz Because the SEC is a joke and bad accounting is the standard procedure Mar 28 17:10
schestowitz Whao. BN did about 3.5 GB of traffic in the past 13 hours alone. g2g bbl Mar 28 17:14
zer0c00l 3.5? thats big Mar 28 17:15
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_Hicham_ Roy : u are becoming a star Mar 28 17:18
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zer0c00l new comment in http://gracelyne.wordpress.com/2009/03… Mar 28 18:51
zer0c00l Muha ha Ha ha MicroSoft Products are like scabies it will give pleasure when u rub (WHen You Initillay UseTHose )… But Finally It Will put you in Bleeding(Robbing Money From You) … :-) Mar 28 18:51
Eruaran Latest update for the Glassified Plasma theme is very nice Mar 28 19:25
schestowitz Split vote upholds Texas education board ruling to ax evolution ‘strengths and weaknesses’ rule < http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedconte… >. Pros and cons for “world is flat?” Mar 28 20:17
schestowitz “The more I read about Adam Smith, the more impressed I became with his life and his work.  For years, many thought that Smith had been advocating a right wing ideological approach to open markets, reflecting a kind of survival of the fittest competition in which anything goes. ” http://blog.irvingwb.com/blog/2009… Mar 28 20:18
schestowitz http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index… Mar 28 20:21
schestowitz The AstroTurfers won’t say a thing about ISO’s corruption there. Mar 28 20:22
schestowitz “The newspaper business is in the can, papers are closing left and right, and lots of others are laying off staffers. But perhaps some of those who have their newspaper gigs can get in on a hot growth industry: ghostwriting Twitter messages for celebrities.” http://techdirt.com/arti… Mar 28 20:24
schestowitz Sun Crams the Entire Internet In a Box < http://gigaom.com/2009/03/25/sun-crams… > Mar 28 20:30
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schestowitz “Liberal think tanks and advocacy organizations formed during the Bush/Cheney regime are working in close and well-funded coordination as a PR messaging machine for the Obama Administration’s foreign and domestic policies.” http://www.prwatch.org/node/8300 Mar 28 20:35
dsmith_ isn;t that a bit off topic? Mar 28 20:37
schestowitz It is. :-) Mar 28 20:42
schestowitz But there are parellels Mar 28 20:42
schestowitz On how the public is deceived by the same industry (PR) using the same methods Mar 28 20:43
dsmith_ i knw. Mar 28 20:43
dsmith_ here’s a story for you… Mar 28 20:44
dsmith_ An outside sales person was complaining to me that thier laptop not working, I foudn viruses on it.. obviously Mar 28 20:44
dsmith_ So I backed up his data and instaled linux, with the means to recieve email and RDP to the terminal server Mar 28 20:45
dsmith_ his ITfolk freaked out Mar 28 20:45
dsmith_ and promptly removed it and said what I had done was insecure Mar 28 20:45
dsmith_ lol Mar 28 20:45
Balrog and what now? Mar 28 20:46
Balrog that’s not good … who are these ITfolk? Mar 28 20:47
dsmith_ I wont name names, but it was the comp. hired to admin thier systems Mar 28 20:47
dsmith_ lol Mar 28 20:47
Balrog are these people familiar only with windows? Mar 28 20:47
dsmith_ yea, what you call a MSVP, or whatever Mar 28 20:48
Balrog :( Mar 28 20:48
Balrog MCSE Mar 28 20:48
schestowitz 13-y-o neighbour Mar 28 20:48
schestowitz Reboot, then reinstall Mar 28 20:48
dsmith_ someone asked me about sharepoint Mar 28 20:48
schestowitz Those whizes… Mar 28 20:48
dsmith_ etc.. Mar 28 20:48
schestowitz Sharepoint is against sharing Mar 28 20:49
schestowitz Non-Free software Mar 28 20:49
dsmith_ I gave them 3-4 alt, so what they do? They installed SHAREPOINT Mar 28 20:49
schestowitz Lockin and viral.. forces other to be locked in too Mar 28 20:49
dsmith_ THE it  IDIOITS know better Mar 28 20:49
dsmith_ its comical.. Mar 28 20:49
schestowitz Alfresco would be better Mar 28 20:49
dsmith_ all for $3500.month Mar 28 20:49
dsmith_ alfresco, clearspace….etc Mar 28 20:49
schestowitz here’s a real OTer: Burning Toxic Waste is Making U.S. Soldiers and Iraqis Sick, But the Pentagon Refuses to Admit It < http://www.alternet.org/story/132345/ > Mar 28 20:50
dsmith_ O3 was another Mar 28 20:50
schestowitz $3500/month? Mar 28 20:50
schestowitz Hehe. Mar 28 20:50
dsmith_ LMFAO yea Mar 28 20:50
schestowitz /They/ should pay for it Mar 28 20:50
schestowitz Drop their wage Mar 28 20:50
schestowitz Idiots. Mar 28 20:50
schestowitz And their data will be STUCK in it Mar 28 20:50
schestowitz Pay to become hostage Mar 28 20:50
dsmith_ i call  it protection money Mar 28 20:50
Balrog are there linux clients for Citrix XenApp? Mar 28 20:51
dsmith_ citrix yea Mar 28 20:51
dsmith_ xenapp dunno Mar 28 20:51
Balrog but not foss…? Mar 28 20:51
schestowitz http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-… “The police in London are asking citizens to go through each other’s garbage, and report anyone looking at the CCTV cameras.” Mar 28 20:51
dsmith_ hmmmmmmmmmm Mar 28 20:51
schestowitz “If you are in London, make a practice of regularly looking at CCTV cameras. Occasionally discussing them with your companions or passersby would be a good habit too. If everyone gets accustomed to seeing people look at them, and photograph them, no one will find it unusual.” Mar 28 20:51
dsmith_ Yea roy, your country is in a tizzy right now Mar 28 20:52
schestowitz Ctrix is Microsoft Mar 28 20:52
schestowitz Pretty much… Mar 28 20:52
Balrog yes I know Mar 28 20:52
dsmith_ aaye Mar 28 20:52
schestowitz dsmith_: it’s Big Brotha’ :-) Mar 28 20:52
dsmith_ yes I know.. Mar 28 20:52
dsmith_ I read the UK is bankrupt Mar 28 20:52
schestowitz No though police yet, but they track anything you do on the Web if they want Mar 28 20:53
Balrog but how do you run remote apps (using Citrix XenApp) on a Linux machine? Mar 28 20:53
schestowitz The government here support Phorm Mar 28 20:53
schestowitz They deep-inspect packets! Mar 28 20:53
Balrog of course they do Mar 28 20:53
schestowitz dsmith_: seems like it, yes Mar 28 20:53
Balrog here (US) the fcc stopped some phorm-like trials Mar 28 20:53
schestowitz Debt of over $50k per person Mar 28 20:53
Balrog and fined the ISP’s Mar 28 20:53
schestowitz LSE had protests Mar 28 20:53
schestowitz Making a mess down there in London Mar 28 20:54
dsmith_ were not any better Mar 28 20:54
dsmith_ US is bankrupt Mar 28 20:54
Balrog ahh, citrix has a java-based client Mar 28 20:54
schestowitz dsmith_: yes, that too Mar 28 20:54
dsmith_ yea, thats right, JAVA Mar 28 20:54
schestowitz Similar debt per dapita Mar 28 20:54
schestowitz *Capita Mar 28 20:54
schestowitz US treasury works secretly Mar 28 20:54
schestowitz All those loans from China to go to war… Mar 28 20:55
Balrog but it’s not for end users :( Mar 28 20:55
schestowitz And they STILL work secretly. Mar 28 20:55
schestowitz Speaking of JAVA, I’m doing an April Fools’ joke Mar 28 20:55
schestowitz You’ll see… it starts with “JAVA” Mar 28 20:56
schestowitz Ah! dsmith_  spoke too soon. Just in: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/02… (Bill proposes ISPs, Wi-Fi keep logs for police) Mar 28 20:56
schestowitz RMS says, “The US Congress is considering a bill to require every WiFi network (and every ISP) to keep records of all users, for the police.” Mar 28 20:57
Balrog url? Mar 28 20:57
schestowitz “I suspect opposition will fasten on the absurdity of imposing this requirement even on people’s home networks. That would be a mistake: if the bill is changed to exempt home networks, it will still be an attack on our freedom. We must oppose the bill head-on, not get sidetracked into quibbles about details.” Mar 28 20:57
schestowitz http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jan-a… Mar 28 20:57
Balrog it’s certainly absurd Mar 28 20:57
schestowitz It’s all coming better together now Mar 28 20:57
schestowitz People are led to unrest Mar 28 20:58
Balrog and there are many ways to hide online activities Mar 28 20:58
schestowitz Policemen were always able to snoop and require logs Mar 28 20:58
schestowitz Manpower is not an issue Mar 28 20:58
schestowitz In Chna, 10k people eavesdrop on people Mar 28 20:58
dsmith_ just boot off a live cd.. Mar 28 20:58
dsmith_ and remove your harddrive, or use it for swap Mar 28 20:58
schestowitz Here in the UK, with umployment rising, more human analysis+Phorm would do the trick of ‘Thought Police’ (Orwell), checking people’s clicks, search queries, people’s mail, IM….. Mar 28 20:59
Balrog they want dhcp logs Mar 28 20:59
schestowitz You know, Skype in China let the government access chat logs too (text) Mar 28 20:59
Balrog easy enough to fake a MAC address Mar 28 20:59
schestowitz Italy demanded access to voice too Mar 28 20:59
schestowitz Saying the “terrorists” can’t be eavesdrop like on phones. Mar 28 20:59
dsmith_ wow Mar 28 20:59
schestowitz “Terrorists” = people who protest Mar 28 20:59
dsmith_ yes.’ Mar 28 21:00
schestowitz Like… about unemployment Mar 28 21:00
schestowitz “Terrorists” = people of iceland Mar 28 21:00
dsmith_ haha Mar 28 21:00
schestowitz http://www.indefence.is/+ Mar 28 21:00
schestowitz http://www.indefence.is/ Mar 28 21:00
dsmith_ “Terrorists” = Linux users Mar 28 21:00
dsmith_ you wait Mar 28 21:00
schestowitz These people take the s*t on us ;-) Mar 28 21:00
schestowitz Don’t worry… they can send ESRs and ORLYs to ‘tame’ us about Web Two-Oh! and Open Sauce Mar 28 21:01
schestowitz It’s a good think to view it humourously. OBrother OBama is the next China regime..? :-D Mar 28 21:02
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpp38p… “I love you [Obama]“ Mar 28 21:03
schestowitz Beijing orders scaling back of Earth Hour to celebrate Tibet ‘liberation’ day < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/20… > Mar 28 21:06
schestowitz The Civil Brtis :-) FCO Finally Admits To Receiving Intelligence From Torture < http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/ar… > Mar 28 21:10
schestowitz Yummy…. not. “Compressed food” http://www.chinasmack.com/pictures/w… Mar 28 21:13
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schestowitz Migrating the enterprise to Linux, 10 things clarified < http://www.handlewithlinux.com/migrating-t… > Mar 28 21:17
schestowitz *sigh* why is LXer linking to anti-Linux material from Microsoft’s buddy and Ballmer’s friend (they met) Shane O’Neill?? Mar 28 21:23
schestowitz Palm coming the the desktop? … Why Palm’s WebOS Could Shake up the Netbook World < http://blog.laptopmag.com/why-palms… > Mar 28 21:37
schestowitz Mobile Linux looking like a future leader: http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/The-Drivi… Mar 28 21:37
schestowitz The US government uses a double-digit share of GNU/Linux: http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/26/o… Mar 28 21:38
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schestowitz “This good cop-bad cop routine has gotten very, very old. Anyone in open source who deals with Microsoft knows what they are walking into. Stop pretending to be our friend.” http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3802 Mar 28 21:40
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_Hicham_ sleepy room Mar 28 21:45
_Hicham_ no snoring voice Mar 28 21:45
schestowitz Don’t worry about it. Relish on the silence. Mar 28 21:49
schestowitz I’m meanwhile collecting wonderful Linux news that I’ll hopefully post tonight as a bunch. Many people read BN for the links alone. Mar 28 21:50
schestowitz Study: Android to lead smartphone growth < http://www.linuxdevices.com/news… > Mar 28 21:51
schestowitz yay1 Mar 28 21:56
schestowitz Pseudonym Paul Murphy (SCO booster) to leave ZDNet: Ihttp://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-11202-0.htm… ” can’t say I always agree with your opinions, Murph. In fact, I seldom agree with them! Never-the-less, I shall miss your entertaining and thought-provoking daily blog.” Mar 28 21:56
schestowitz Microsoft’s anti-Mac pricing campaign takes to the web < http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/03… >. So longer is just GNU/Linux (#1 Microsoft threat) a direct victim? Mar 28 22:05
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schestowitz ESR is attacking the Freedom in Free(Dom)Libre software again… < http://www.informationweek.com/blog/… > (A Little Heresy Now And Then …) Mar 28 22:25
MinceR he should ask the OpenBSD/OpenSSH guys how the “market punishing for taking open source closed” is working out for them Mar 28 22:39
schestowitz :-) Mar 28 22:43
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_Hicham_ there is no better room than this one Mar 28 22:56
_Hicham_ Roy, u should open a hotel Mar 28 22:57
*[H]omer has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Mar 28 23:00
schestowitz Can’t afford it. Mar 28 23:05
schestowitz http://lwn.net/Articles/325662/ “Trust us while we sue you. I agree. Don’t judge Microsoft on its words, judge MS on its actions.” Mar 28 23:10
schestowitz “I raped your wife, but I gave your daughter a lollipop. Only judge me based on how I treated your daughter.” Mar 28 23:10
schestowitz “The disconnect between statement and reality often makes me wonder if there are elements of joining a cult in working for Microsoft. This isn’t just ordinary PR, but true doublethink.” Mar 28 23:11
schestowitz “Your deeds on open source? You mean, all the windows-only “open source” software you’ve published? Yeah, real funny that.” Mar 28 23:11
Balrog_ ogg is so hard to work with :( Mar 28 23:11
Balrog_ the tools for it are terrible, unfortunately Mar 28 23:11
schestowitz “Contrast that with why the economy here is so bad– a lot of folks want it to be the way it was a hundred years ago. Those days aren’t coming back, and they weren’t that great anyway.” http://linuxtoday.com/news_s… Mar 28 23:13
schestowitz “All those emigrants flooding to this beautiful new unspoiled land, and then doing their best to ruin it beyond repair. Real life is adaptation and change; pining for the old ways doesn’t accomplish much.” I love Carla Schroder’s essays. Mar 28 23:13
*schestowitz watches ogg videos in a playlist right now Mar 28 23:14
Balrog_ try combining two ogg videos together end to end Mar 28 23:14
schestowitz Balrog: what OS are you on ATM? Mar 28 23:14
Balrog_ Linux and OS X, no luck on either Mar 28 23:15
schestowitz Balrog: kino, cineralla (??) Mar 28 23:15
Balrog_ I’m talking about authoring related Mar 28 23:15
Balrog_ not playback Mar 28 23:15
schestowitz Yes, me too Mar 28 23:15
Balrog_ playback is great Mar 28 23:15
schestowitz I’ve named editors Mar 28 23:15
Balrog_ I need to basically ‘cat’ three together Mar 28 23:15
schestowitz A friend of mine wrote this tutorial recently: http://digg.com/linux_unix/V… Mar 28 23:16
Balrog_ do these work on oggs directly? Mar 28 23:16
schestowitz I liked it so much I put it in Digg (which I rarely do these days anyway cause it’s a dud) Mar 28 23:16
Balrog_ or do they transcode to an editor-friendly format? Mar 28 23:16
Balrog_ ok, Kino only works with .dv video Mar 28 23:17
Balrog_ not good :/ Mar 28 23:17
schestowitz Balrog: you could use ffmpeg Mar 28 23:18
schestowitz Many people do Mar 28 23:18
schestowitz Very simple Mar 28 23:18
schestowitz http://forums.blagblagblag.o… Mar 28 23:19
schestowitz freedom compromise rms Mar 28 23:19
schestowitz look it up Mar 28 23:19
schestowitz :-) Mar 28 23:19
Balrog_ I used ffmpeg, it gave me this Mar 28 23:20
_Hicham_ Balrog_ : avidemux Mar 28 23:20
Balrog_ but these are OGGS Mar 28 23:21
_Hicham_ avidemux just rocks Mar 28 23:21
Balrog_ OGG files Mar 28 23:21
MinceR or mencoder? :> Mar 28 23:21
Balrog_ avidemux sounds like avi Mar 28 23:21
_Hicham_ Balrog_ : no Mar 28 23:21
Balrog_ mencoder doesn’t deal with theora Mar 28 23:21
_Hicham_ avidemux is not for avi only Mar 28 23:21
Balrog_ well, many apps that deal with ogg are terribly broken Mar 28 23:22
schestowitz +1 mencoder Mar 28 23:22
schestowitz Balrog: ‘commercial’ apps? Mar 28 23:23
schestowitz Ogg is their anathema Mar 28 23:23
schestowitz No patents, no royalties, DRM, trolls, Sisvel mafia, DRM… Mar 28 23:23
Balrog_ no, free apps Mar 28 23:23
Balrog_ Handbrake doesn’t deal with it properly, but it requires VFR codecs/containers, which ogg doesn’t support Mar 28 23:24
Balrog_ ffmpeg has a terrible vorbis encoder Mar 28 23:24
Balrog_ (the internal one) Mar 28 23:24
Balrog_ don’t use -acodec vorbis with ffmpeg, rather -acodec libvorbis Mar 28 23:24
Balrog_ or you’ll get horrible results Mar 28 23:24
schestowitz In what sense/ Mar 28 23:25
schestowitz Framerate? Blur? Mar 28 23:25
Balrog_ no, chirping and other sound artifacts Mar 28 23:27
Balrog_ http://myrandomnode.dyndns.org:8080… Mar 28 23:28
Balrog_ there are samples to try out Mar 28 23:28
Balrog_ compare the ffmpeg one (ffmpeg -acodec vorbis) with the libvorbis one (ffmpeg -acodec libvorbis) Mar 28 23:29
Balrog_ AUDIO Mar 28 23:29
Balrog_ -acodec is audio Mar 28 23:29
Balrog_ ffmpeg doesn’t have theora built in internally Mar 28 23:29
schestowitz i c…. Mar 28 23:29
Balrog_ so if ANYONE encodes audio in vorbis with ffmpeg, use ‘libvorbis’ Mar 28 23:31
Balrog_ did you listen to the samples btw? Mar 28 23:33
schestowitz Can you convince your department to support Ogg? Mar 28 23:37
schestowitz They can automate translation Mar 28 23:37
schestowitz Balrog: not yet. I’m dealing with links ATM. Mar 28 23:37
Balrog_ my department doesn’t have a codec of choice, but they’re stuck with an app that uses Silverlight Mar 28 23:38
Balrog_ In this case, I’m required to use ogg Mar 28 23:38
Balrog_ (hopefully I will be able to work with some students to make a similar app that doesn’t use SL)\ Mar 28 23:39
Balrog_ and gives a choice of codecs Mar 28 23:39
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_Hicham_1 http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/ Mar 28 23:40
_Hicham_1 here u go balrog Mar 28 23:40
Balrog_ works with ogg? Mar 28 23:40
_Hicham_1 yes Mar 28 23:40
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_Hicham_ it join files instantly Mar 28 23:42
schestowitz Balrog: many universities make headline ATM because of open-source courseware Mar 28 23:43
schestowitz Your courseware goes the other way Mar 28 23:43
schestowitz Show the seniors that what they do is wrong Mar 28 23:43
schestowitz They deny even people who pay tuition access to courseware Mar 28 23:43
Balrog_ it’s not courseware Mar 28 23:43
Balrog_ it’s stuff for video viewing Mar 28 23:44
Balrog_ they have not much choice, as there’s (a) lack of money and (b) lack of interest to improve this Mar 28 23:44
_Hicham_ avidemux is an exception any balrog Mar 28 23:44
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schestowitz lack of money –> Silverlight? Mar 28 23:46
schestowitz I think not Mar 28 23:46
schestowitz They drive themselves right into LOCKIn Mar 28 23:46
_Hicham_ Silverlight is the future Mar 28 23:48
_Hicham_ if no other true alternative see light Mar 28 23:48
_Hicham_ it is sad to say Roy Mar 28 23:48
_Hicham_ but it is true Mar 28 23:48
_Hicham_ i assisted to a conference animated by an MS guy here in Morocco Mar 28 23:49
Balrog_ no, I’ll explain Mar 28 23:49
_Hicham_ it was about Web Development Mar 28 23:49
Eruaran You don’t need Silverlight Mar 28 23:49
_Hicham_ and he talked about MS tools Mar 28 23:49
Balrog_ there’s this company that has software to do exactly what they want Mar 28 23:49
schestowitz _Hicham_: no, it’s not catching on Mar 28 23:49
schestowitz Microsoft admitted this Mar 28 23:49
MinceR is silverlie the only way to lock ourselves into a patent trap and bloat web pages beyond recognition in the future? :> Mar 28 23:49
schestowitz it resorted to bribing companies for it Mar 28 23:49
schestowitz Not sustainable Mar 28 23:49
Balrog_ was developed at CMU and they give it free to universities (free meaning no cost) Mar 28 23:49
Balrog_ www.panopto.com Mar 28 23:49
schestowitz Now it dumps it for ‘free’ on people and pays incentives Mar 28 23:49
schestowitz And it’s still not working Mar 28 23:50
schestowitz By its own admission Mar 28 23:50
Eruaran Silverlight has no future Mar 28 23:50
schestowitz _Hicham_: they hypnotise you, I think. :-) Mar 28 23:50
schestowitz “Resistance is futile!” Mar 28 23:50
schestowitz “Join us or die” Mar 28 23:50
_Hicham_ Roy : it was last year Mar 28 23:50
Balrog_ you’re right Mar 28 23:50
schestowitz Silver lie has been out for ages Mar 28 23:51
schestowitz Since 2006 or 07 Mar 28 23:51
schestowitz In soem form Mar 28 23:51
schestowitz Still nowhere Mar 28 23:51
MinceR well, they have those green rectangular pieces of paper they hand out in bundles to “hypnotize” people… :> Mar 28 23:51
schestowitz Unless they bribe Mar 28 23:51
_Hicham_ the truth is : everybody seemed interested Mar 28 23:51
_Hicham_ but also we had some questions Mar 28 23:51
schestowitz In Morocco maybe Mar 28 23:51
MinceR _Hicham_: protip: uninterested people didn’t visit Mar 28 23:51
_Hicham_ and big exclamations marks Mar 28 23:51
Balrog_ then why software like the one ‘we’re’ using? Mar 28 23:51
_Hicham_ one thing that we paid attention too Mar 28 23:51
_Hicham_ is that they managed to change basic SQL Syntax Mar 28 23:52
_Hicham_ so instead of writing ” SELECT * FROM *” Mar 28 23:52
_Hicham_ with MS tools u have to write “FROM * SELECT *” Mar 28 23:53
_Hicham_ when we asked him about the reason for this change Mar 28 23:53
_Hicham_ he was really smart to answer Mar 28 23:53
_Hicham_ but not that smart Mar 28 23:53
_Hicham_ his answer was that Mar 28 23:53
_Hicham_ they needed that just for IntelliSense Mar 28 23:53
_Hicham_ because, according to their IntelliSense Implementation Mar 28 23:54
_Hicham_ u have to choose the table first Mar 28 23:54
_Hicham_ then the row Mar 28 23:54
_Hicham_ but it was just as always Mar 28 23:54
_Hicham_ a nasty form of Lock-In Mar 28 23:55
_Hicham_ that is what they r always trying to do Mar 28 23:55
_Hicham_ and I was shocked to know that this guy was a former J2EE developer Mar 28 23:56
_Hicham_ and he told us that he joined MS because he is better paid there Mar 28 23:56
MinceR m-stools! Mar 28 23:56
Eruaran Money talks Mar 28 23:57
MinceR sql sucks, no matter how they twist it Mar 28 23:57
MinceR bs12 should have spread Mar 28 23:57
_Hicham_ MinceR : it is hard to convert all existing SGBDs Mar 28 23:57
MinceR what’s an SGBD? Mar 28 23:57
_Hicham_ DBMS Mar 28 23:58
_Hicham_ sorry Mar 28 23:58
_Hicham_ SGBD is in french Mar 28 23:58
MinceR oh Mar 28 23:58
_Hicham_ DataBase Management System = Système de Gestion de Bases de Données Mar 28 23:58
_Hicham_ Microsoft Implementation of things is weird Mar 28 23:59
_Hicham_ in every field Mar 28 23:59
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