06.05.09

Gemini version available ♊︎

Fedora Leaves Mono Out, OpenSUSE Has Second Thoughts, and So Should Ubuntu

Posted in GNU/Linux, Microsoft, Mono, Novell, OpenSUSE, Red Hat, Ubuntu at 4:40 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Cute monkey

Summary: Mono loses ground as it gets increasingly removed and Ubuntu should follow suit (regarding Mono inclusion), argue some of its own users

OVER the past week, quite a lot has happened. Most importantly, Red Hat decided that "it's better without Mono" and Ubuntu users opposed Mono for the same reasons (bloat). OpenSUSE and Hubert (formerly of Novell) are both showing signs that Mono loses its luster (as if it ever had any) and to quote Sam Varghese:

Miguel, looks like there are traitors to the Mono cause within your own ranks. Or is it that, just for once, commonsense and logic has asserted itself at Novell and its associates?

DaemonFC from Boycott Novell adds:

Linux Distro: “Can we distribute this?” Miguel De Icaza: “*shrug* Go ask Microsoft” [...] so Ubuntu goes whole hog and proceeds to crap up their OS with Mono everywhere [...] if it’s really “free software” you shouldn’t even really need to ask if you may distribute it.

Neighborlee writes in response: “as long as MOST people don’t notice whats going on.. they can do it. It’s when people that notice make up the majority, that they can’t procede.. so that’s why it [has] been so important to try to get the word to average joe and cindy.

Fred Williams writes in LinuxToday:

It would be nice if Ubuntu also took Mono off the live CD. They can leave Mono in the repos for people who want it.
To get rid of the trojan horse
sudo aptitude purge mono-common libmono0

“Definitely seconded!” says another person, who agrees with the above and adds:

I’ve been creating a custom Ubuntu live CD, and I was truly astonished how much space was wasted by this.
I believe it could even be as high as in the 5 to 10 percent range.

In other news, Novell is busy developing MonoDevelop. What is it doing now? It makes an installer for Windows. It’s nice to know that Novell spends its time developing Windows software that encourages development in .NET.

There are still some stability issues, and are several add-ins are still untested, but MD is starting to look great on Windows. GTK+ with the Vista theme looks really nice.

“Look really nice,” eh? So why not just use Windows? Whose platform is Novell promoting? Whose API?

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

26 Comments

  1. aeshna23 said,

    June 5, 2009 at 7:42 am

    Gravatar

    So why not just use Windows? Whose platform is Novell promoting? Whose API?”

    Exactly the point of all this! People who want to use .Net technologies should just use Microsoft products. If the point of Linux is just to produce a free Windows, we deserve to lose.

    David Gerard Reply:

    Indeed. .NET and C# were a cheap copy of Java, and Mono is a cheap copy of .NET.

    If people really want an environment that’s easy to develop in, at the price of a fat runtime (which is after all the sort of thing Moore’s Law is for) – why don’t they just use Java? IcedTea is proper genuine free software all the way down, and Sun has been disentangling Java as fast as they can. Why not use the original?

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    It doesn’t have the “Microsoft” logo? Why would Ximian favour it? Remember that Nat Friedman is a former Microsoft employee.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    deIcaza isn’t “we”, he’s most actively demonstrated membership in “they”

    People who try to use .not in place of java are just plain stupid, gullible or malicious. Or maybe have a bit of all three characteristics. .not isn’t even a quality copy of java.

    http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/biztech/12/06/microsoft.sun.ap/index.html

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    That URL is broken. I was once shown how all the Linux articles in CNN vanish over time.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    It seems to be an AP article that expired.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    “Bang on the knee” is an understatement

    http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Jim_Allchin:_piss_on_Java

    About two weeks ago:

    http://hyperbored.com/steve-ballmers-brain-goes-chop-chop-chop/

    souskel Reply:

    “If the point of Linux is just to produce a free Windows, we deserve to lose.”

    But wasn’t the whole point of GNU to provide a free compatible version of UNIX? That’s how Linux displaced UNIX and brought freedom to the server. Surely the same strategy is not only tenable but necessary for the desktop.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    It’s not that simple. UNIX is not Windows. Windows is the properly of one ‘master’, whereas UNIX is UNIX. There is no one UNIX.

    Let’s see how Microsoft reacts if ReactOS beats it at its own game.

  2. BW said,

    June 5, 2009 at 8:05 am

    Gravatar

    It’s good to see some of the distros coming to their senses about Mono, and I think Gnote is probably a good part of that motivation. There is though the additional question of F-Spot – is there a native GNOME alternative to F-Spot already, or should somebody get started building one?

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    There are some suggestions here (thanks for the edits, aeshna23).

  3. NotZed said,

    June 5, 2009 at 10:22 am

    Gravatar

    Porting most projects to windows is actually a recipe for success.

    If success is measures by lots of (whining) users I guess.

    Well before long it probably wont even run on mono, because it’s so far behind .NET and always will be.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Remember that this is not an ordinary port of an application like Firefox. Here it’s a development tool which gains Windows-only capabilities.

    David Gerard Reply:

    *in general*, cross-platform is good for application robustness and quality. Particularly the huge leap between Unix and Windows, which are such utterly different beasts. Porting to a severely different platform is excellent for deep examination of your design assumptions and the problem space.

    As Roy notes, this one is a bit different in practice.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Wine is also very different from Mono. Wine is for running, Mono is for developing. It’s a common misconception and vector of deception.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    WINE is a re-implementation of the Windos API, such that there is one. It includes the documented and a fair amount of the undocumented crap. The success of Wine is an essay in how poorly MS products are actually documented, how poorly they work and how much effort MS spends to prevent third parties from developing anything at all.

    http://lwn.net/Articles/154451/

    Wine is a fantastic piece of engineering, but would have been finished in months or weeks had MS actually documented its products. In spite of all that, it is an excellent bridge to freedom if one or two key apps is holding back a larger migration. Just be sure not to get bit on the ass by closed data formats.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Exactly. It’s a migration/legacy tool, unlike Mono/MonoDevelop.

  4. Will said,

    June 5, 2009 at 11:20 am

    Gravatar

    Re: F-Spot and the other mono infections, Gnome 3.0 is as good a chance as any to clean house. It has already begun with Gnote. It would be great if we could see developers rally to do the same thing to F-spot, Gnome Do, etc. Since Gnome 3.0 is still months away, there should be plenty of time to get things going in time, especially if the other projects grow at the pace Gnote did.

    eet Reply:

    You have no idea about software development, have you?

    Robert Millan Reply:

    The obvious troll is obvious (and because of that, nobody feeds it) =)

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Yes, this one goes years back. “eet” is a pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Some say it’s better to encourage existing software which has no roots in Mono. Gnote was an exception due to its position in GNOME.

  5. eet said,

    June 5, 2009 at 11:37 am

    Gravatar

    It seems Will wants to KEEP his F-Spot, Banshee and Gnome-Do…

  6. shlomil said,

    June 8, 2009 at 10:18 am

    Gravatar

    I am the author of Ubuntu Hebrew Remix and blogged about these issues for a while:

    http://shlomil.blogspot.com/2008/09/why-you-probably-dont-want-to-get.html
    http://shlomil.blogspot.com/2008/10/more-thoughts-about-mono.html
    http://shlomil.blogspot.com/2009/02/sometimes-dog-will-bite-ms-sued-tomtom.html

    Although ,AFAIK, these SW patents are not applicable in Israel , I will consider removing Mono from my remix if Ubuntu keeps it just because I don’t feel like being (even partially) responsible for one of the major drawbacks in Linux adoption in the future.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Some distributions like BLAG already do the same thing for the same reasons.

DecorWhat Else is New


  1. Links 08/08/2022: Rescuezilla 2.4 and GUADEC Notes

    Links for the day



  2. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, August 07, 2022

    IRC logs for Sunday, August 07, 2022



  3. Techrights in the Next Ten Years

    An outlook for Techrights and topics it will focus on, seeing that the nature of threats is evolving



  4. Firefox Has DRM Even if You Turn off DRM

    Guest post by Ryan, reprinted with permission



  5. Estonia Adopting GNU/Linux Fast Since Russia Invaded Ukraine

    Windows has back doors; Estonia seems wise enough to move away from it, more so after Russian hostility



  6. In These Censorious Times...

    The World Wide Web has rapidly become a platform of censorship (not just in places like China and Russia) and we're extending to protocols that make censorship very difficult, sometimes infeasible



  7. Links 07/08/2022: SystemRescue 9.04 Out, Debian Officially Celebrates Censorship

    Links for the day



  8. Links 06/08/2022: Five Years of Fosstodo and Arti 0.6.0

    Links for the day



  9. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, August 06, 2022

    IRC logs for Saturday, August 06, 2022



  10. Links 06/08/2022: 4.3.2 EasyOS and NetBSD 9.3

    Links for the day



  11. GNU/Linux Share on Desktops and Laptops Relatively High in Claimed Territories of PRC (China)

    When it comes to desktops and laptops, GNU/Linux is measured at 4% in Taiwan this month and 5% in Hong Kong last month (4% in Macao; about 3% in Tibet)



  12. Links 06/08/2022: New in KDE and New Games

    Links for the day



  13. As Lennart Moves to His 'Mother Ship' (Microsoft), Will Devuan Become the 'New Debian'?

    There are signs that more developers are fatigued or fed up with systemd; we too have begun moving our sites away from systemd



  14. IRC Proceedings: Friday, August 05, 2022

    IRC logs for Friday, August 05, 2022



  15. In Africa, Android is More Than Three Times Bigger Than Microsoft Windows

    Now that Microsoft is starting to block Linux from booting on new laptops it’s important to remember that the “consumer” does not actually choose Windows; Microsoft is trying to forcibly impose Windows on unwanting computer users



  16. LinuxToday (or Linux Today) Shows Signs of Agony

    The Web site LinuxToday.com is pushing webspam instead of news picks; it also sells data about visitors (the typical “We value your privacy” lie), so it seems like “monetisation” tactics have taken precedence/priority over readers (or what’s left of them anyway; the webspam inevitably drives more of them away)



  17. Links 05/08/2022: GNUnet 0.17.3 and GNU Binutils 2.39

    Links for the day



  18. Links 05/08/2022: Mageia 9 Wants Artwork

    Links for the day



  19. [Meme] Criminals Have Feelings Too...

    We’ve learned today that speaking to colleagues about the EPO‘s corruption is regarded as a privacy problem by those who engage in this corruption



  20. [Meme] Dignity of Criminals

    Benoît Battistelli and António Campinos have turned the EPO into s**t; two men, one crêpe



  21. António Campinos Once Again Failing to Obey Court Orders, Making Up Ludicrous Excuses for Non-Compliance

    The absurdity of this situation is bare and completely naked for all to see, as once again the EPO refuses to obey very explicit, unequivocal court orders, which are nearly a decade overdue. Today's EPO seems to have been taken over by crime lords, or an embodiment of nepotism brought to us by the Frenchman Campinos and his enablers from Alicante.



  22. Recruitment Potential at the EPO Has Never Been Worse

    The tyrants who have taken the reins at the EPO want obedient robots, not human beings who are inclined to obey the law. Therefore, there seems to be an effort underway to drive out well-educated, highly-qualified, conscientious, experienced and charismatic workers who can stand in the way of profoundly unlawful strategies.



  23. Tux Machines is Now on Gemini and Techrights' Gemini Capsule Restored After Outage That Killed the Whole System (Again)

    We're moving to lighter and simpler systems that are easier to maintain (Alpine, Gemini, static pages); we've meanwhile faced a major obstacle due to the whole neighbourhood here losing power



  24. Asia Has Already Left Windows Behind

    Android (Linux-powered) is leaving Windows in the gutter; it’s hardly shocking that the criminals who run Microsoft try to prevent Linux from even booting on new laptops



  25. IRC Proceedings: Thursday, August 04, 2022

    IRC logs for Thursday, August 04, 2022



  26. Links 05/08/2022: KIO Admin, GitLab's Betrayal

    Links for the day



  27. Links 04/08/2022: Devuan-Based Peppermint OS, Hyperbola 0.4.1

    Links for the day



  28. Links 04/08/2022: Release Candidate of Krita 5.1.0 and Ubuntu Unity 22.04.1

    Links for the day



  29. Links 04/08/2022: Steam Deck in Asia

    Links for the day



  30. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, August 03, 2022

    IRC logs for Wednesday, August 03, 2022


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts