Bonum Certa Men Certa

Microsoft Product Manager: “Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language.”

Summary: Microsoft speaks about "killing Sun's Java."

WE ARE STARTING to cover Java territories from the Comes vs Microsoft case, which Microsoft paid to settle, apparently with the condition that all this evidence will disappear. Today we offer the text version of Exhibit px_2768 (1997) [PDF], which shows Microsoft's treatment of cross-platform, Java, and competition in general. The full exhibit can be seen at the bottom (or the original PDF), but to give some pointers and highlights, see the following message from Prashant Sridharan, Microsoft's Visual J++ Product Manager:



If we, as a company, are interested in promoting Windows, why bother with AFC? In my own opinion (apart from Ironwood, J/Direct, or any of the other politically-charged topics now), we are horribly inconsistent in this regard.

Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language.

That said, have we ever taken a look at how long it would take Microsoft to build a cross-platform Java that did work? Naturally, we would never do it, but it would give us some idea of how much time we have to work with in killing Sun's Java.


For readers' convenience, the context too is displayed in the full exhibit. This fits our analysis that Microsoft et al (and now Novell [1, 2, 3]) are essentially fighting against Java with their .NET infatuation (or Visual J++ prior to that). This is done unethically in Microsoft's case. It it also important to remind people how Microsoft really feels about Java now that Microsoft is invading Java conferences, pretending nothing negative was ever intended by Microsoft.




Appendix: Comes vs. Microsoft - exhibit px_2768, as text








PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT 2768 Comes v. Microsoft

From: Russ Arun Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 6:13 PM To: Prashant Sridharan Subject: RE: More Questions about ADO in java...

Cross platform is a red herring that is not worth spending time on. Based all the numbers we see it is interestingly more irrelevant now than it was 5 years ago when I joined MS.

However we need to coopt the best lessons from Java into Windows.

-------- From: Prashant Sridharan Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 6:07 PM To: Russ Arun Subhect: RE: More Questions about ADO in java...

If we, as a company, are interested in promoting Windows, why bother with AFC? In my own opinion (apart from Ironwood, J/Direct, or any of the other politically-charged topics now), we are horribly inconsistent in this regard.

Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language.

That said, have we ever taken a look at how long it would take Microsoft to build a cross-platform Java that did work? Naturally, we would never do it, but it would give us some idea of how much time we have to work with in killing Sun's Java.

Prashant Sridharan Visual J++ Product Manager preshant@microsoft.com (425) 703-4682 http://www.mediacity.com/-heath

-----Original Message-----

From: Russ Arun Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 5:29 PM To: Preshant Sridharan Subhect: RE: More Questions about ADO in java...

It is in Sun's interest to be cross platform. NT is eating share fast. So they are scrambling to find something and Java is their best hope. But for Java they would be in trouble.

-------- From: Preshant Sridharan Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 5:25 PM To: Russ Arun Subject: RE: More Questions about ADO in java...

Agreed on x-plat. Screw Sun.

Of course, you and I probably have some old Sun buddies that would think otherwise :-)

Prashant Sridharan Visual J++ Product Manager preshant@microsoft.com (425) 703-4682 http://www.mediacity.com/-heath

MSS 0097798 CONFIDENTIAL

ATTORNEYS ONLY




-----Original Message----- From: Russ Arun Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 5:23 PM To: Prashant Sridharan Subhect: RE: More Questions about ADO in java...

Don't care about cross platform in future - pretense or otherwise. AFC is the closest to this at this point.

Yes - we are shipping the Microsoft JDBC-ODBC bridge that came from Intersolv and supports JDBC.

-------- From: Prashant Sridharan Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 5:12 PM To: Russ Arun Subject: RE: More Questions about ADO in java...

Russ,

I am now joining in this thread, so forgive the silly question. Are we not shipping JDBC at all with the SDK 2.0?

Do we have any pretense of cross-platform left? ;-)

Prashant Sridharan Visual J++ Product Manager preshant@microsoft.com (425) 703-4682 http://www.mediacity.com/-heath

-----Original Message----- From: Russ Arun Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 5:09 PM To: Java Discussion Alias: Craig Longman (Excell Data Corporation) Subject: RE: More Questions about ADO in java...

In theory having both JDBC (the deprecated one) and MSJDBC (the Microsoft JDBC-ODBC bridge) is OK, but you will have spurious classes that I would worry about you relying on.

JDBC can be rid off by deleting JDBC.zip and any other muck should clear itself as part of the VM install.

-------- From: Craig Longman (Excell Data Corporation) Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 4:59 PM To: Java Discussion Alias Subject: RE: More Questions about ADO in java...

>in the words of 'Russ Arun' >* JDBC.zip is not being shipped - so you relying on it is not good

Ahh. I just looked over the docs again, and I must admit I failed to notice the 'ms' in front of the jdbc.exe file to run. After running that, I get the Intersolv stuff installed just great, and everything is running fine.

Now if I can just figure out why multiple result sets in a single statement are not working correctly...

Does anyone know where I can report bugs on the jdbc-odbc bridge?

> - You might want to uninstall your VM and install the latest VM or IE

ATTORNEYS ONLY


of us to look forward to, no doubt.

>* There are examples in the SDK that might help you

Aside from the SimpleSelect.java that was changed to use MSs new naming conventions before they had the Intersolv which has the same naming conventions and can now use the standard sample, I couldn't find anything in the samples that helped in any way what-so-ever.

Cheers, and thanks for the help.

CraigL->Thx():

MSS 0097800 CONFIDENTIAL

ATTORNEYS ONLY



Credit: wallclimber

Recent Techrights' Posts

"Victory Day" - Part II: Abject Defeat to Hypocrites and Objectionable People Who Strangle Women Whilst on Microsoft's Payroll
Someone is going to have to pay for this; it won't be us
Rust Propaganda Now Amplified by Slopfarms Powered by Microsoft LLMs, Encouraging the Outsourcing of GNU/Linux Distros to Microsoft/GitHub/NSA (and a Shift Away From GPL/Copyleft)
Moving to Microsoft GitHub and adopting unfinished, untested code for highly critical bits
IBM is Rotting With "Zero Internal Jobs" and Many PIPs (Performance Improvement Plans) on the Way, Typically a Fast Track Towards Layoffs Without Severance
At risk of giving air(time) to tribal sentiments, the internal joke at IBM is that to IBM "AI" stands for "All Indian"
The Gerstnerisation of Microsoft: Seventh Wave of Microsoft Layoffs (Over 20,000 to be Cut) Allegedly Going to Start Shortly, Probably Start of Next Week, Microsoft Spreads Chaff and Noise Before the Big Axes Fall
we might be looking at about 50,000 people that Microsoft gets rid of this year
 
Blizzard/Microsoft Unions Grow Ahead of Mass Layoffs at Microsoft, Apparently Starting Next Week (as Many as 30,000 Workers Laid Off by Year's End)
Microsoft already fired about 5,000-6,000 workers this year by our estimates; that's not counting resignations compelled through pressure (i.e. pushed, did not jump) and contractors
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, May 09, 2025
IRC logs for Friday, May 09, 2025
Links 09/05/2025: Inflation Rising and Rights to Protest Curtailed Some More
Links for the day
Gemini Links 09/05/2025: Good and Evil, LLMs Made the Web Worse Yet Again
Links for the day
European Patent Office (EPO) Faked "Revenue Expansion" by Granting Loads of Invalid, Illegal Patents; Staff Still Wants to Know Where That Money Went
Only about 30% of the EPO's patents are for EU entities/people
Links 09/05/2025: TeleMessage Blunder, More Distractions From Impending Mass Layoffs at Microsoft
Links for the day
GNU (and the FSF) Still Changing the World
Today, in 2025, GNU powers almost everything
Military-Grade Anti-Linux Microsoft Propaganda Using Microsoft LLMs in Fake 'News' Sites (Slopfarms)
This is part of a pattern
Links 09/05/2025: Analog Computer and First time at FOSDEM
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, May 08, 2025
IRC logs for Thursday, May 08, 2025
Links 08/05/2025: Mass Layoffs at Google Again, India/Pakistan Tensions Continue to Grow, New Pope (US) Selected
Links for the day
"Victory Day" - Part I: That is the Day Microsofters Who Assault Women Pay for Their Actions in Foreign Land (Using "Guns for Hire" Who Attack Their Own Country for American Dollars)
Adding a friend from Microsoft to the docket didn't help
Rust is Starting to Seem More Like Microsoft-hosted "Digital Maoism", Not a Legitimate Effort to Improve Security
Maybe this is very innocent, but they seem to have taken a solid, stable program from a high-profile Frenchman and looked for ways to marry it with GitHub, i.e. Microsoft/NSA
Gemini Links 08/05/2025: Practical Gemini Use Case, Shutdown of the Blanket Fort Webring
Links for the day
Links 08/05/2025: "Slop Presidency", US Government Defunds Public Broadcasting
Links for the day
Lasse Fister, Organiser of Libre Graphics Meeting, Points Out the Code of Conduct is Likely Violated by the Same People Who Promote Codes of Conduct (and Then Bully Him Into Cancelling a Keynote)
I am starting to see Lasse Fister as another victim
LLM Slop Attacks Not Only Sites of Free Software Projects But Also Bug Reporting Systems (Time-wasting, in Effect "DDoS")
Microsoft, the leading purveyor and promoter of slop, is a cancer
The Richard Stallman (RMS) "European Tour" Carries on In Spite of the Nuremberg Incident
Some people spoke about how they saw yesterday's talk
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, May 07, 2025
IRC logs for Wednesday, May 07, 2025