EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

07.24.09

Mono Roundup: Suppression of Speech, Extension, and Deception

Posted in Free/Libre Software, FSF, Microsoft, Mono, Novell at 4:26 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Playing with clay

Summary: Bits of minor news about Mono

AS our later post will show, Microsoft delivered not 20,000 lines of code but 20,000 lines of GPL compliance. Despite the illusion or bubble of PR bursting, some pro-Microsoft blogs are using this forced compliance (and Mono) to describe Microsoft’s self-serving actions as a “love-fest over open source” for which Microsoft deserves special credit. This spin is also pushed by the business press. At the same time we are seeing personal attacks on those daring to criticise some things like Mono, disdain of Stallman, and trust in Microsoft. Trust needs to be earned (c/f TomTom lawsuit in 2009)

Glyn Moody is able to see the disagreements at play and he has published a post that tells apart “Purists” and “Pragmatists”. It’s an old story and nothing particularly out of the ordinary; tension has always existed at some level.

Now we have a similar situation regarding Mono. The purists are concerned that there may be issues to do with software patents in jurisdictions that recognise them. To them, it seems folly to create what may be tainted code because of the digital sword of Damocles hanging over them through such intellectual monopolies. For the pragmatists, by contrast, Mono is simply a good way of programming that can serve the useful purpose of allowing people to run .Net-based programs on free software. All in all, then, they believe it is to be welcomed as a way of increasing the use of open source.

There is a particular irony in this situation, because this time it is the GNOME project’s use of Mono that is proving unacceptable to the purists, whereas ten years ago, GNOME was the purist solution to the problems with KDE’s pragmatism. If nothing else, this shows how foolish it would be to judge projects on their past alignments rather than present actions.

Despite warnings from the FSF, Novell is replicating Microsoft and it shows no signs of abatement. Taking Banshee for example, it is being further extended into territories which beg for trouble [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]. Tomboy has many users, but unlike Banshee, Microsoft’s Community Promise covers it for the time being. One of the biggest issues happens to be Moonlight, which was covered in ZDNet UK a few days ago.

Silverlight is based on .NET — the open source implementation of .NET is Mono. Microsoft has assisted Mono development. The open source version of Silverlight is called Moonlight, which is based on Mono, and sponsored by Novell. Moonlight enables Silverlight content to run on Linux.

Microsoft never appeased the concerns raised by the SFLC regarding Moonlight.

What also ought to be added is that David Worthington seems to have been promoting “everything Microsoft” recently (ever since they bought him lunch, but he was in touch with Microsoft for longer than that). Anyway, one of the latest posts from him is once again promoting Mono by deception, even spin and borderline lies. Pascal from the OpenSUSE Board is annoyed by it. He wrote:

This piece of… “art” has to be one of the most factually wrong and ridiculous pseudo-technical articles ever. Because its utterly unqualified author has 3 or 4 desktop applications running on Mono on his desktop, he states that Mono has overtaken Java (and, unlike the title of that article, he actually writes that it’s not only on the desktop).

And even later, Worthington carries on promoting Mono. It must be good for Microsoft, but we already knew that and wrote about it yesterday.

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

15 Comments

  1. zatoichi said,

    July 24, 2009 at 5:13 am

    Gravatar

    Roy, I’ve just reported your site to littleart.ru for violating its terms of use on artwork. I’d heard that you’d been smacked around for using stock are without permission, and here you are doing precisely that.

    This photo comes from this page on littleart.ru; note that at the bottom of the page, there’s the line

    Copyright ©2008-2009, Littleart.ru. Использование материалов сайта возможно только при наличии прямой ссылки на Littleart.ru

    If you read Russian, you’d be aware that this says, “Copyright © 2008-2009, Littleart.ru. Use of the site’s materials is only possible when there are direct links to Littleart.ru.” I’m not seein’ no direct links, Roy.

    So, the Big Defender of Free Software for the Evil Corporation is a violator of copyright. A thief of the creativity of others . Nice.

    Or maybe you’re just exercising your “freedom” and seeing to it that your neighbor shares his things with you. Whether he wants to or not. Without your asking first.

    For shame, Roy. I’m going to be going through the rest of the artwork on the site, I expect I’ll find more examples, and I’ll report those, too, as I find them, both to their owners and here.

    Those stories were true, weren’t they? Once a thief, always a thief.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    The photo is from here:

    http://www.sxc.hu/photo/994612

    Usage
    Royalty free, see usage options”

    Your only purpose in this site in to silence and intimidate (see the subject of this post). If you carry on, your account will be banned for breaking the commenting policy.

    Dylan McCall Reply:

    Okay…

    “Standard restrictions apply and flaivoloka must be notified and credited when using the photo for any public work.”

    Maybe it’s lost somewhere, but I don’t see the latter end of that being upheld.

  2. zatoichi said,

    July 24, 2009 at 5:32 am

    Gravatar

    Don’t blame me, Roy, there had been stories, and the very first photo I check takes me to littlearts.ru; I not the one snagging free photos from dodgy web sites; I either get permission or get my stock from iStockphoto.com…

    That only talks about the royalty you have to pay when you’ve executed a license with the owner of the image. From the sxc.hu “Site Info” (my emphasis):

    “6. Are these images really free?

    Yes, they are free as long as you stick to the rules in the Image license Agreement. Also, in some cases you may need to notify the artists about using the images and sometimes you need to give credit to them. You can see these restrictions under the image previews, right next to the Download button.”

    Also, in section 7, “Legal Information”, they note

    “SXC cannot be held responsible for any copyright violations, and cannot guarantee the legality of the Images stored in its system. If you want to make sure, always contact the photographers. You use the site and the photos at your own risk! ”

    And, as I said, the image in question, as nearly as I can tell, belongs to littleart.ru and is only available under the specified terms. I’ll track down others as I have time, but I won’t bother telling you about it, since it seems to upset you.

    Speaking of “being banned”, I was wondering if you’d had a chance to either collect some links to where I was cursing so much that you had no recourse but to remove me from the site, as well as that list of “what is and what is not a ‘curse’”…? I mean, is “bas**rd” okay? I guess “as***le” is probably over the line, but what about just “a**”?

    Seen verofakto’s time line? Really nice job there, huh?

    zatoichi Reply:

    Oh, and verofakto did that on his or her own: I just offered one additional “incident”–the “tomboy replacement” thread in early 2008–and one clarification, to the work that had already been done. I can pass along any comments you have on this, if you’d like, Roy.

    nachokb Reply:

    And, as I said, the image in question, as nearly as I can tell, belongs to littleart.ru

    zatoichi, I don’t know why you are so sure about that, perhaps you have more information.

    Still, I can’t help but look at the dates, and it just so happens that sxc’s predates the Russian site’s image by more than a year. At least, that’s what it says.

    Anyway, it is ultimately irrelevant: it should be reported (to both of them, without prejudice) and then left aside (if, the real rights holder turns out to be the Russian guy, all that Roy would have to do is remove the image or ask permission).

    You seem to keep insisting that it is somehow Roy’s fault. That’s what makes you look like a zealot.

    Regards,

    nachokb

  3. zatoichi said,

    July 24, 2009 at 5:38 am

    Gravatar

    I’m not trying to silence you, Roy. I’m just trying to get you to stop misrepresenting things, and leading this incessant chorus of hatred. I’m afraid you’ll die young if you keep up this sort of thing, it’s not at all healthy for you.

    Of course, to the extent that a lot of stuff on the site is out-and-out misrepresentation, I guess there’d be a lot less stuff, but that’s not the same thing at all.

  4. Needs Sunlight said,

    July 24, 2009 at 6:27 am

    Gravatar

    More! This must be spot on if it gets the MSFT boosters so wound up and skipping right to the personal attacks. Fact is, if they have only the attacks that shows there is no basis for the claims that Mono / BOTNet are technically or legally suitable for any given task. Usually MSFT boosters do the attacks when there is some very bad showing in the quarterly figures, some competitors (read: the rest of industry) are getting good press, or

    Fact is the “protections” for Mono are not passed downstream. Only hobby developers are covered. End-users and commercial developers are at risk from racketeering. Building on Mono instead of the original Java or C++ can leave your customers in for a *nasty* surprise later — black hats and lawyers.

    eet Reply:

    Apparently you haven’t been following what’s been going on lately, otherwise you would know who zatoichi is. This here is about far more than your boring Mono-conspiracies; it is about what we want our community to be: A playground for self-indulgent paranoiacs who go around defaming others or a place for people who want to make constructive contributions to a shared vision.

    Needs Sunlight Reply:

    @EET: it seems you are one who has splinters from the troll-mirror in his eyes or that you seem to think it is opposite day. Anyway, keep up the yammering, but do it elsewhere.

    Mono, aside from performance and security hits, is about locking software into M$ outdated stack.

    Don’t use it in place of Java:
    http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono

    zatoichi Reply:

    The FSF has their opinion, and the UTB has theirs.

    Why does everyone need to subscribe to the one you say?

  5. Will said,

    July 24, 2009 at 8:24 am

    Gravatar

    Unless I missed something:

    “We hereby grant to You a non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use the Image on the terms and conditions explained in this Agreement and on the Image preview page FREE OF CHARGE.

    You may use the Image

    * In digital format on websites, multimedia presentations, broadcast film and video, cell phones.”

    That is from the terms of use for that photo.

    zatoichi Reply:

    You did indeed miss something. The paragraph where they allow that they don’t check a single solitary thing that’s uploaded for copyright violations, and that it’s on the user to check and make sure that the rights are what the upload says they are.

    This photo is clearly posted at scx.hu illegitimately, as my link to its original location shows. The site that has the rights–littleart.ru–says, as I pointed out, that you can only use it if you link back to their site from it. So, unless Roy makes that photo a link to littleart.ru, he’s in violation of their copyright.

    All he needs to do is make it link appropriately. Is that so hard? It’s a nice photo, why do you and Roy want to deny its creators the credit they deserve?

    But I’ve posted all of this already, right here. Don’t you read before you comment?

    Dylan McCall Reply:

    The truth is, they just want to pretend you don’t exist because you don’t subscribe to their “freedom or die” mentality. If Roy had his way, you would already be an unperson.

    zatoichi Reply:

    I was an unperson, a few times, at least until Roy ran short of reasons, and the energy, to ban me again.

    I though I was dead once. Turned out, I was just in Nebraska.

    —Gene Hackman as “‘Little’ Bill Daggett” in Unforgiven

What Else is New


  1. Video: LinuxWorld 1999, Torvalds and Stallman

    LinuxWorld 1999, Torvalds and Stallman



  2. GNU World Order is a Personal Sacrifice, LinuxWorld Just Business

    As the Linux Foundation shows, Linux is just business (and proprietary software) as usual, software patents included, whereas it’s GNU that continues the Free Software Movement’s battles



  3. Links 20/2/2020: Oracle Solaris 11.4 SRU18, Mesa 20, VirtualBox 6.1.4

    Links for the day



  4. Open Source Did Not Win, It Was Assimilated to and by Proprietary Software

    Don’t fall for the whole “Open Source has won!” spiel; You know we’ve lost the battle (and were in effect gradually conquered) at OSI and elsewhere when those who speak for the OSI are Michael Cheng (Facebook), Max Sills (Google), and Chris Aniszczyk (Linux Foundation); they say “Open Source Under Attack” (FOSDEM talk) but their employers are the ones attacking and they downplay openwashing



  5. Former Microsoft Employees Don't Like Talking About Past and Present Microsoft Back Doors (Designed for Spy Agencies)

    In a typical Microsoftian fashion, once they cannot defend the illusion/delusion that Microsoft values security the 'Softers' run away and block any further debate



  6. Techrights Warns Against Impending Extradition Efforts (Passage of Julian Assange to His Death in the United States)

    Imprisonment of journalists who are effective at exposing crimes (of the powerful, not petty crimes) must never be condoned



  7. Team UPC: Many Mouths and No Ears

    The mental condition of Team UPC gets more worrisome by the week



  8. Team UPC Insults Judges Because the UPC is Dead and UPC Lobbyists Have Nothing Left to Lose

    More judge-shaming tactics are in the mix; Team UPC seems to feel like there's nothing left to lose as the UPC is already dead (hope itself is next to die)



  9. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, February 19, 2020

    IRC logs for Wednesday, February 19, 2020



  10. China Bashing is Grounded in Fear (That They Can Simply Do Better Than the West)

    The atmosphere of hate towards China — fuelled partly by a white supremacist in the White House — is unhelpful and insulting; dignity and understanding is the way to go



  11. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, February 18, 2020

    IRC logs for Tuesday, February 18, 2020



  12. FFII Press Release: Germany Can No Longer Ratify the Unitary Patent Due to Brexit and the Established AETR Case-law, says FFII

    Germany cannot ratify the current Unitary Patent due to Brexit and the established AETR case-law. The ratification of the UPC (Unified Patent Court) by Germany would constitute a violation of the AETR case-law, which was used during the EPLA negotiations in 2006 to consider a deal with non-EU countries, such as Switzerland.



  13. DRM (Proprietary Software) Already Makes Mozilla Firefox Broken, Unreliable, Undependable (Dependent on Binary Blobs)

    More people are beginning to realise that Mozilla resorted to self-harming DRM and self-inflicted damage that impacts Firefox; can Mozilla (re)join the anti-DRM coalitions?



  14. EPO and Other Patent Updates Over RSS

    Site syndication (over RSS feeds or XML/Atom) is vastly better than what became popular in recent years (censored, centralised, discriminatory "Social Control Media"); here are some feeds of interest



  15. When It Comes to a Unitary Patent System, Bad (or Intentionally Dishonest) Legal Advice Has Become the Norm

    The Unified Patent Court and Unitary Patent (UPC and UP, respectively) reinforce the old saying about lawyers being liars, doing anything to attract clients (to take their money); the UPC is basically dead, but fiction, falsehoods and outrageous fantasies still find their way into Web sites of law firms



  16. Links 19/2/2020: KDE Plasma 5.18.1, GNOME 3.36 Beta 2 and WordPress 5.4 Beta 2

    Links for the day



  17. Is Linux Foundation a Microsoft Branch Now?

    The so-called ‘Linux’ Foundation (LF) nowadays helps Microsoft cement its monopoly — the very opposite of what ages ago it said the LF would do



  18. Are Songs Property? And Maths Also Property? Artificial Monopolies Are Not Property...

    Patent maximalists continue to face stronger arguments from their sceptics, who rightly allege that words are being intentionally misused and numbers fabricated so as to distort underlying facts



  19. Battistelli Blocked Techrights at EPO (Banned for More Than 5 Years), So CEIPI Won't Respect Access to Information Either

    The use of censorship to confront people who talk about (not even expose) corruption isn't novel; but the adoption of this approach in Europe (not just places like Russia and China) is definitely noteworthy



  20. IRC Proceedings: Monday, February 17, 2020

    IRC logs for Monday, February 17, 2020



  21. Links 18/2/2020: Linux 5.6 RC2, Wine 5.2, GNU Social Contract and Sparky 2020.02 Special Editions

    Links for the day



  22. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, February 16, 2020

    IRC logs for Sunday, February 16, 2020



  23. Links 16/2/2020: MX Linux 19.1 and MyPaint 2.0

    Links for the day



  24. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, February 15, 2020

    IRC logs for Saturday, February 15, 2020



  25. Guest Article: Au Revoir, GNU/Linux

    "Funny how OSI just ended up being another vehicle for their takeover of the computing world..."



  26. Former Microsoft Employee: ZDNet is Owned by Microsoft (and Others) in Some Senses

    A noteworthy message we've received from someone who knows Microsoft from the inside



  27. Links 15/2/2020: Blender 2.82, Qt 5.15 Alpha and NetBSD 9.0 Released

    Links for the day



  28. Microsoft Views 'Open Source' as a Zero-Cost Heist Opportunity (Making Proprietary Software/Spyware Using Other People's Free Labour)

    Making GPL-licensed (copyleft) software and hosting it outside Microsoft’s jaws is the best way to counter the abusive monopolist, which still says it “loves” what it is actually attacking



  29. Did Microsoft 'Buy' ZDNet?

    A look at what ZDNet tells its readers (screenshot from this morning) and a rare look at how its writers are censored/suppressed



  30. Anatomy of a Crime and Protection From Prosecution

    It’s hard to forget what António Campinos hides for his friend


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts