Techrights logo

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: Monday, December 21, 2020

(ℹ) Join us now at the IRC channel | ䷉ Find the plain text version at this address.

*rianne__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)Dec 21 04:57
*rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 04:57
*rianne__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Dec 21 05:13
*rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 05:14
*rianne__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Dec 21 05:16
*rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 05:16
*rianne__ has quit (Client Quit)Dec 21 05:17
*rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 05:17
*rianne__ has quit (Client Quit)Dec 21 05:17
*rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 05:18
*rianne_ has quit (Client Quit)Dec 21 05:21
*rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 05:21
*rianne__ has quit (Read error: No route to host)Dec 21 05:29
*rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 05:30
*rianne__ has quit (Client Quit)Dec 21 05:32
*rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 05:32
rianne (Dec 21 09:51
schestowitz"There are a few things I need to do in clinic that might take me 10 hours a week with the reduced patient load we have.  The rest could be handled remotely and by video  conference if the other stupidity was not there.  Other clinics with much  more money have built enough crutches so they can do treatment planning on Windows, but my hospital is an xxxxxxxxxx star awardee that got wiped by Windows ransomware the summer before the Dec 21 09:54
schestowitzCovid.   For all of that, we are  much better off than our neighbors who are forced to truly awful Covid risks,  or thrown out in the street by lack of emergency financial support."Dec 21 09:54
*gry has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Dec 21 11:08
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)Dec 21 18:17
*rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)Dec 21 18:17
*rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 18:20
*liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 18:22
schestowitz> The Betrayal Just Doesn't Stop in the Free Software MovementDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:26
schestowitz> By roysuxdevDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:26
schestowitz> When people attack Roy or Richard Stallman over personal matters, it'sDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> ad hom. When his words are twisted around to attack him, it'sDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> slander/libel. http://techrights.org/2020/09/10/the-fake-door-sign/Dec 21 18:26
schestowitz> <http://techrights.org/2020/09/10/the-fake-door-sign/> When Roy does theDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> same thing to me, it's a valid defence.Dec 21 18:26
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:26
schestowitz> And right before Christmas, you ungrateful bastard. I can't wait to readDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> the pedantic back-justification for doing to me exactly what Debian didDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> to Daniel Pocock. ("No, this is different, because...")Dec 21 18:26
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:26
schestowitz> No, I didn't leave Techrights over a debate about "nutrition", as RoyDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> has told people on two occasions already. And I know Roy will publishDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> this, because if he doesn't then people are going to see what TechrightsDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> was afraid to publish.Dec 21 18:26
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | The Fake ‘Door Sign’ Used to Frame Richard Stallman and Misrepresent Him One Year Ago (the Media Never Corrected This Slanderous Allegation) | TechrightsDec 21 18:26
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:26
schestowitz> Roy isn't afraid-- he will lie his way out of this.Dec 21 18:26
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Hell, Techrights has published entire book chapters I wrote about theDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> very thing that's happening now-- I mean, when Torvalds said that FreeDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Software is about "hate" he neglected to point out that the "hate" wasDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> towards the bad things Microosft was doing.Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> When Roy talks about "anger management issues" (you motherfucker...)Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> it's because it pisses me off when I have a knife in my back.Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> As I told Roy, very clearly, I was leaving because people were beingDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> condescending. Sure it was mostly Mincer, and I probably overreacted aDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> bit, but Roy spends years at a time writing articles that put togetherDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> events over months, years or decades of history. Nobody leavesDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Techrights because of a squabble about "nutrition", you fuckwit.Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Rather it was about the same concerns I had when I wrote this:Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> http://techrights.org/2020/08/21/last-article/Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> <http://techrights.org/2020/08/21/last-article/>Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> And the benefit of the doubt can only stretch so far, Roy. The reason weDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> have so many "misunderstandings" is because you're a two-facedDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> opportunistic manipulator.Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:27
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | So It’s Come to This? | TechrightsDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> You have no idea how many years I've tried to help you in particular.Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Back when Oliva was telling me to get a Lemote, a good half-grand toDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> support Free Software, I made this graphic for you:Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> http://techrights.org/images/Schestowitz.pngDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> <http://techrights.org/images/Schestowitz.png>Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> You know how the bevel got there? I'm the one who put it there. Do youDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> remember what you were using previously? A picture with a distortedDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> aspect (and very low resolution, even by 2010 standards) that made itDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> look like it was smeared across the page. I got a better picture of youDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> and made that image, and it's gone onto every article you've posted onDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Techrights ever since.Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Do you people have any idea how many hours I've put in for this guy?Dec 21 18:27
schestowitz> Mostly my own prompting, the main thing Roy asked for was a shitload ofDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> wiki work, which I spent many hours working to put together (mostlyDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> coding, as the sheer level of work involved would have never happenedDec 21 18:27
schestowitz> without automation, not if I was doing it at least) and I thought it wasDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> for a good cause, but my how the narrative has shifted all of a sudden!Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> When you stab someone in the back, you forfeit any ground to make ad homDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> arguments about their emotional state. When you misrepresent people, youDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> destroy your integrity.Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Credibility can be bought, it can be manufactured. Integrity isDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> something innate-- it can only be nurtured and practiced-- or thrown outDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> the window. You can demonstrate it, but only history-- and only if it isDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> accurate-- will ever prove you right or wrong.Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> The arguments I'm watching are thin and sloppy as hell. They completelyDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> counter things that were just said to me privately a week or two ago--Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> I've been lied to, a lot apparently.Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> As I said to Roy in parting, there are only so many misunderstandings.Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> This isn't one. This is betrayal.Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> It's hilarious to read someone (it isn't certain who) saying that peopleDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> close to Stallman are saying Roy isn't Pro-Stallman enough, when Roy isDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> correct that Techrights has done more to defend him than anybody else.Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> That much is absolutely true! I can't think of anybody who actually hasDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> a relative argument on their own behalf, to suggest that Techrights hasDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> not done enough to defend Stallman. Was it Hal? Was it Larry? Jesus!Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> It can't be Oliva. The article that Techrights just published aboutDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Stallman by Oliva is one that Oliva asked for MY input on, just has heDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> has for other articles in the past. Believe me, Oliva and I have ourDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> differences, I stopped trusting him a while ago. But I can't pinDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> anything on him, and I've told him as much.Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> But if it was Oliva, it's pretty funny to consult me for my input onDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> your article about Stallman then turn around and say Roy isn'tDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Pro-Stallman enough, for things I said-- when you just asked ME to goDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> over your article about Stallman. Ridiculous. But I don't think it wasDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Oliva anyway, regardless of the proximity to something he definitelyDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> said in the logs. No names, you can't always tell where one starts andDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> the other begins. I have to say this, because if I don't I think RoyDec 21 18:28
schestowitz> will imply it's something I don't understand.Dec 21 18:28
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-201220.htmlDec 21 18:29
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | IRC: #techbytes @ FreeNode: Sunday, December 20, 2020Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> <http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-201220.html>Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > We got a lot of work to do on perception by RMS et al onDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> techrights and Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > writings by you all.  Your writing about problems in theDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> FSF and in GNU, Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > whether facts or speculation, are coming across asDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> hostility towards him Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > by himself and some of his close supporters. Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz Splitting groups apart is a strategy noted in internalDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> documents (Microsoft), and my writings are different from fig's (IDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> disagree with him on many things actually). His are articles listedDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> under "guest". He threw a tantrum the other day because of somethingDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> someone said in IRC about nutrition, then deleted his E-mail account.Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> Nothing to do with me... Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz There may be anger management issues... Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > I know he's received advice with reservations aboutDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> techrights, after my Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > blog post series was published, but I think most of it isDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> just from Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > people forwarding to him posts that, without context, mayDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> indeed come Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > across as hostile. Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz Before the coup fig sent some rather inadequate messages toDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> RMS. I disagreed with him on that. But that's all I can do; never metDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> him, I don't even know his first time. Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > I've started some clearing up, having to point out evenDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> the existence of Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > multiple writers with different positions, but often myDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> attempts to Dec 20 07:37Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > clear things up come across as hypotheticals rather thanDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> factuals, Dec 20 07:38Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz > because I can't easily find posts where I got pieces ofDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> context. Dec 20 07:38Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> schestowitz It's important not to mix my writings with those of a personDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> whom I often do not agree with. Dec 20 07:38Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:29
schestowitz> First of all, when Techrights has done more to defend Stallman duringDec 21 18:29
schestowitz> the coup (where else can you find Oliva talking about what happened inDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> the coup?) where do people get off saying Techrights isn't Pro-StallmanDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> enough? That's like saying Smedley Butler isn't Pro-America enough.Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> I'm not saying that because I'm in any mood to defend Techrights today--Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> it's relevant to my argument and it happens to be true as well.Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Second of all, exactly WHAT have I actually said that is attackingDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Stallman that Roy hasn't said? Roy likes to say that vague arguments areDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> meaningless and only details matter, when it suits him. When he startedDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> attacking me after I left, that got put aside for a bunch innuendo,Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> half-truths and vague bullshit. Roy, your hypocrisy is unbelievable. IDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> never thought it would be ANYTHING like this!Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> What I mean is this: if people are attacking Techrights by sayingDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> complete bullshit about how TR is attacking Stallman rather than theDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> other way around, why the hell is Roy implying that I was attackingDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Stallman, when it's the other way around?Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> As with Stallman himself, everything I said before was public-- anythingDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> we had to agree or disagree on, everybody had the opportunity.Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> I'm sure Roy and I disagree on plenty-- I've said exactly that (about usDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> disagreeing) in how many different articles? We are all different peopleDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> here.Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> What's happening is that simple fact is being used as a kernel of truthDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> in a pile of BS about how we fundamentally disagree on what counts. IDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> never thought we did-- but suddenly, Roy seems to think so!Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> "It's important not to mix my writings with those of a person whom IDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> often do not agree with." Dec 20 07:38Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Sure it is. But WTF is this?Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> "He threw a tantrum the other day because of something someone said inDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> IRC about nutrition, then deleted his E-mail account. Nothing to do withDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> me..."Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:30
schestowitz> No, you weren't actively being condescending in the discussion. ButDec 21 18:30
schestowitz> Mincer was uncharateristically, over more than one day and more than oneDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> email, twisting around what I was saying into a straw man that was farDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> less reasonable and completely inaccurate, and although he typicallyDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> isn't I thought he was being a dick.Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Big deal, but there's been too much of that lately. It's not even aboutDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Mincer (shit, one condescending remark every couple of years, who canDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> blame him) just about the complete lack of anything keeping me here.Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> It's more about the way you say supportive things in private then inDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> public, where's the support? Apparently it's all going into your balanceDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> while you twist the knife in, you classy fuck.Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> I don't know anybody with a perfect memory, certainly not me. I have aDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> shockingly good memory for many things, which is why if you mention aDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> mainstream package Roy and I are the two go-to people on whether that'sDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> on Github or not. Because it's a dangerous monopoly that both Roy and IDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> have criticised the FSF for supporting.Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> But of course I was more rude about it, so suddenly Roy and I differ aDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> lot. I mean on the one hand, Roy has said we differ in tone-- he said soDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> right here, in August:Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> http://techrights.org/2020/08/15/figosdev-anonymity/Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> <http://techrights.org/2020/08/15/figosdev-anonymity/>Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:31
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | Techrights and figosdev | TechrightsDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> But he has also defended Stallman by saying his critics routinely attackDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> him over meaningless tone arguments-- something I agree with Roy on.Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Part of the reason I talk the way I do is because I remember when weDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> were free to, before started conflating community with corporations--Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> each community decided (usually leaning on the side of free speech, aDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> phrase we all know is both of great importance and necessary to defineDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> first-- but just the same) what was acceptable and what wasn't. Now weDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> have coalitions of racist corporations defining racism by regex-- andDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> you can't even parse HTML with that!Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> So these are bullshit arguments when critics of Stallman use themDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> against Stallman, but it's OK for Roy to toss the same arguments at meDec 21 18:31
schestowitz> when someone says "Roy, why do you hate Stallman?"Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> He doesn't. And I don't. Just as it was with Microsoft, Mr. Torvalds,Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> what we hate is the knife in our back.Dec 21 18:31
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> And Roy-- just as it was with people at the FSF betraying Stallman,Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> before turning around and accusing his defenders of betraying him! FuckDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> this is rediculous...Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> It wasn't about "nutrition" as you know full fucking well, nor is itDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> about "anger management"--Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> It's about the knife in the back.Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Once again-- you don't even know how much I've done for you, youDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> ungrateful shit.Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> But I walked away. And yes, I did note that while Mincer sat there beingDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> full of crap, you said nothing. That's not a defence, Roy-- you couldDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> have said ANYTHING. You just sat there.Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> It wasn't that you attacked me in chat (you didn't) or even that youDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> said nothing.Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> It was that I understood the implications. I understood that you didn'tDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> have any respect for me anymore-- if you ever did. (You still seemed toDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> in August).Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> THAT is why I left. The complete lack of respect. Too strong a word? TheDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> complete lack of fairness, then.Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Roy, I trusted you. I think that was a mistake.Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> But I don't think you're anti-FSF or anti-Stallman, I thought you wereDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> anti-corruption.Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Just like Pocock, I assumed being anti-corruption was alright. I didn'tDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> think you'd throw anybody under the bus for that.Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> My mistake. But not a misunderstanding. Unfortunately, I hit the nail onDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> the fucking head with that one.Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:32
schestowitz> Goodbye, Roy. Good riddance. I'm sure you'll have a good time explainingDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> and bullshitting reality into "what really happened" and you'll probablyDec 21 18:32
schestowitz> win.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> But if it's "et tu, Techrights?" then I wasn't pessimistic enough. IDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> still held onto that shred of hope for this movement.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Mea Culpa. I was wrong.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> But it wasn't a misunderstanding, it was misplaced trust. You're anDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> opportunist, and you placate people to manipulate them into doing more--Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> all for "record years!" in terms of audience engagement (still not asDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> bad as ZDNet or any IDG Garbage) but you're telling people like me thatDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> people appreciate the work I do, over and over-- then you turn aroundDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> and act like I was just some fool you suffered. Maybe I was, indeed.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> I know from a lifetime of experience (I'm still older than you) thatDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> misunderstandings happen, and those are worth fixing-- but with someDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> people they just keep happening for increasingly ridiculous reasons, andDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> that's because the person isn't being honest. You're not Lunduke, butDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> today you're playing his sort of game. He does it to Stallman, then youDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> do it to me. Not appreciated, not at all.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Funny thing is, I think people who want to do some good can stillDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> benefit from contributing here. I won't bother explaining why, only thatDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> I don't regret the time or effort spent.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> I regret the misplaced trust.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Long live everyone with the kind of integrity that rms has, and HappyDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Christmas.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> You can spend the next 10 years explaining, while the FSF continues toDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> endorse Microsoft's takeover of free software, and we both tell peopleDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> about it, but somehow I'm the baddie for saying so much of what you've said.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Now you're making the differences in what we are saying out to be a lotDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> more than they really are. I suppose your readers can figure that out,Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> but I don't expect them to care.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> But Fuck You for selling me out, Roy. I can't put it any more plainlyDec 21 18:33
schestowitz> than that. "Deb Icaza" was mine, and I was happy you started using it.Dec 21 18:33
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> You want to be like them? Are you, or aren't you?Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> I've got better things to do. It's not much, that's for sure-- but it'sDec 21 18:34
schestowitz> honest. We are surrounded by hypocrites. I didn't realise you wanted toDec 21 18:34
schestowitz> be like them. Oh well, if you can't beat them, eh? Fuck typos, sendingDec 21 18:34
schestowitz> draft as-is.Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Tom: Talk later, maybe. Your choice, obviously. Yes, I'm deleting thisDec 21 18:34
schestowitz> email as well.Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> You don't really have the "thick skin" you claim to, Roy. What you haveDec 21 18:34
schestowitz> is a tendency to wait until someone gets fed and up TRIES to walk away,Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> before getting them with their back turned.Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Copyright (C) 2020 figosdevDec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Ordinarily I think this is a stupid license, but if the shoe fits:Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz>    DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz>                     Version 2, December 2004 Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz>  Copyright (C) 2004 Sam Hocevar <sam@hocevar.net <mailto:sam@hocevar.net>> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz>  Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim or modified Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz>  copies of this license document, and changing it is allowed as long Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz>  as the name is changed. Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz>             DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz>    TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:34
schestowitz>   0. You just DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO.Dec 21 18:34
MinceRi don't understand himDec 21 18:36
schestowitzI need to think how to approach this. He's a good person, but taking time to think how to respond would be better. To me, personally, this really came out of nowhere, and not for the first time. IIRC, the first time was, I argued that a BSD licence would be a regression. (Because it's what companies that exploit "free labour" code prefer us to use)Dec 21 18:39
schestowitz> This is Galia Mancheva or somebody else?  How much attention did it haveDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> already?Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> She mentions another person was fired before her, do you know who that is?Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> It looks like people were removed in this order:Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Susanne EiswirtDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Galia ManchevaDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> https://web.archive.org/web/20191001042154/https://fsfe.org/about/team.en.htmlDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Susanne Eiswirt, Galia Mancheva, Ulrike, FrancescaDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-web.archive.org | About Free Software Foundation Europe - TeamDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> https://web.archive.org/web/20191001042154/https://fsfe.org/about/team.en.htmlDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Susanne Eiswirt, Galia Mancheva, Ulrike, FrancescaDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> https://web.archive.org/web/20191001042154/https://fsfe.org/about/team.en.htmlDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Galia Mancheva, Ulrike, FrancescaDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> https://web.archive.org/web/20191020123524/https://fsfe.org/about/team.en.htmlDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Galia Mancheva, Ulrike, FrancescaDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-web.archive.org | About Free Software Foundation Europe - TeamDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Dec 21 18:59
schestowitz> https://web.archive.org/web/20191020123524/https://fsfe.org/about/team.en.htmlDec 21 18:59
schestowitz> Ulrike, FrancescaDec 21 18:59
schestowitzRe: Manchester ex-FSFE?Dec 21 19:00
schestowitz> Do you know Anna Morris and Ben Webb and the reason they left FSFE?  IDec 21 19:00
schestowitz> think they are close to you.Dec 21 19:00
schestowitz> Dec 21 19:00
schestowitz> Anna Morris <gingerling@inventati.org>Dec 21 19:00
schestowitz> Dec 21 19:00
schestowitz> Ben Webb <bjwebb67@googlemail.com>Dec 21 19:00
schestowitzI have heard the names, esp. the first, but I heard nothing about it.Dec 21 19:00
*hook54321 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)Dec 21 21:32
*hook54321 (sid149355@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-doftibnowizrzpao) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 21:34
*rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 21:36
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)Dec 21 21:36
*rianne__ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)Dec 21 21:36
*liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 21:37
*rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)Dec 21 21:55
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)Dec 21 21:55
*rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 22:25
*liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-106.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovellDec 21 22:26

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 | ䷉ find the plain text version at this address.