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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: Wednesday, April 28, 2021

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schestowitz__MinceR: yes, I noticedApr 28 00:06
schestowitz__I went to sleep when the lunacy was just getting sort of warmed up and startedApr 28 00:06
schestowitz__I think after daemonFuCkmind has brought up sexApr 28 00:07
schestowitz__in a channel about techApr 28 00:07
schestowitz__subjects that are troll magnetsApr 28 00:08
schestowitz__with the likes of Garrett thriving in disruptions like theseApr 28 00:08
MinceRlolApr 28 00:08
schestowitz__but seriously thoughApr 28 00:09
schestowitz__seeing how soylentNews was being derailedApr 28 00:09
MinceRchild pr0n isn't merely a sex issue thoughApr 28 00:09
schestowitz__and having posted some IRC logs from there recentlyApr 28 00:10
MinceRit's a convenient excuse for restricting human rights as they relate to technologyApr 28 00:10
schestowitz__MinceR: don't see why CP would have to be brought up hereApr 28 00:10
schestowitz__unless people look for a fight or to cause troubleApr 28 00:10
MinceRmaybe we can get rid of people who are trying to cause troubleApr 28 00:10
schestowitz__there is one person on muteApr 28 00:10
schestowitz__for being here as a saboteurApr 28 00:11
schestowitz__even PMing people about "Communism" and CPApr 28 00:11
schestowitz__as the channel is publicly logged he gets no edge by being in itApr 28 00:11
schestowitz__except maybe seeing it more in real timeApr 28 00:12
MinceR2 people are quietedApr 28 00:12
MinceRi was thinking of adding another, but i remembered your view on banning/quieting peopleApr 28 00:13
schestowitz__it was rather quiet for ~2 weeksApr 28 00:21
schestowitz__maybe better that wayApr 28 00:21
schestowitz__one person down nowApr 28 00:21
schestowitz__self-removedApr 28 00:21
schestowitz__ MinceR Apr 28 01:02
schestowitz__ 28 01:02
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@L_isaMarie: Hanging out in @FSF related spaces, watched a guy defending ownership of child pornography as "free speech" while a… 28 01:02
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@L_isaMarie: Hanging out in @FSF related spaces, watched a guy defending ownership of child pornography as "free speech" while a… 28 01:02
schestowitz__"Apr 28 01:02
schestowitz__Hanging out in @FSFApr 28 01:02
schestowitz__ related spaces, watched a guy defending ownership of child pornography as "free speech" while another bragged about how he "no longer wears a mask because he feels like it"Apr 28 01:02
schestowitz__Makes me really glad I got out Apr 28 01:02
schestowitz__Woman shruggingApr 28 01:02
schestowitz__"Apr 28 01:02
schestowitz__"Apr 28 01:02
schestowitz__If you are curious who these gross humans are, they are the mods and community of TechRights DOT orgApr 28 01:02
schestowitz__A low quality blog built on dog whistles and a lack of understanding of reality Apr 28 01:02
schestowitz__Upside-down faceApr 28 01:02
schestowitz__Purple heartApr 28 01:02
schestowitz__"Apr 28 01:02
schestowitz__ 28 01:02
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@rob_musial: @L_isaMarie that site is the worrrrst! 28 01:02
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@rob_musial: @L_isaMarie that site is the worrrrst! 28 01:02
schestowitz__ 28 01:03
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@L_isaMarie: @rob_musial The Free Software Foundation's moral & spiritual advisor At least, that's what they seem to believe 🙃Apr 28 01:03
schestowitz__Who even brought up CP?Apr 28 01:03
schestowitz__seems like a trolling tacticApr 28 01:03
schestowitz__ 28 01:03
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@juha_remes: @L_isaMarie @fsf This is why rarely go anywhere or socialize with anyone except small circle of friends and family.… 28 01:04
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@juha_remes: @L_isaMarie @fsf This is why rarely go anywhere or socialize with anyone except small circle of friends and family.… 28 01:04
schestowitz__"This is why rarely go anywhere or socialize with anyone except small circle of friends and family. This whole "social distancing" thing became a blessing to me and now I'm pretty horrified to go back to "normal". Most IT folks are fine but there is an excessive amount of creeps."Apr 28 01:04
schestowitz__MinceR: of note, same people who dislike FSF dislike us tooApr 28 01:04
MinceR:>Apr 28 01:04
schestowitz__so I think it's safe to say we're in good company..Apr 28 01:04
MinceRindeedApr 28 01:04
schestowitz__afaik, the whole CP crap was brought up by the same person who rage-quitApr 28 01:04
schestowitz__you provoke and then don't like what's happeningApr 28 01:04
MinceRif they were truthful about the things they said, they'd leave the free software movement alone and focus on their SJW version of itApr 28 01:05
MinceRbut of course they're just out to serve their corporate masters so they'll keep bothering usApr 28 01:05
schestowitz__FSF fired herApr 28 01:05
MinceRjust like how hatred/ibm had to force former GNU/Linux distributions to become systemd/Linux distributions instead of starting their distinct OS on its ownApr 28 01:06
schestowitz__"Apr 28 01:06
MinceRthere's also the Gnome project with their "i really hope you're a Gnome application" shitApr 28 01:06
schestowitz__Makes me really glad I got out Apr 28 01:06
schestowitz__Woman shruggingApr 28 01:06
schestowitz__"Apr 28 01:06
schestowitz__= I got firedApr 28 01:06
MinceR:>Apr 28 01:06
schestowitz__"got out"Apr 28 01:06
schestowitz__the goal is to bog down the channelApr 28 01:11
schestowitz__cause infightingApr 28 01:11
schestowitz__waste timeApr 28 01:11
schestowitz__harm moraleApr 28 01:11
schestowitz__anyway, good riddance, I guessApr 28 01:11
schestowitz__we have some important stories comingApr 28 01:12
schestowitz__messed up people recycled as Internet trolls. ex. GarrettApr 28 01:13
schestowitz__very sensitive peopleApr 28 01:37
schestowitz__asking loaded questions, wrapping up accusations within themApr 28 01:38
schestowitz__that's their skillsApr 28 01:38
schestowitz__at the moment, I think, one mean/s towards the goal isApr 28 02:13
schestowitz__bring up anti-capitalism and CPApr 28 02:13
schestowitz__or just sex in generalApr 28 02:13
schestowitz__wait for someone to utter something inadequateApr 28 02:13
schestowitz__maybe spin it out of context, tooApr 28 02:13
schestowitz__so the solution is, keep things on topicApr 28 02:14
schestowitz__moreover, I think ryan opens up to people who try to derail the channel and move things OTApr 28 02:15
schestowitz__hence I've not been replying to him much lately, except when it is about techApr 28 02:15
schestowitz__ 28 03:51
schestowitz__"Apr 28 03:51
-TechrightsBN/ | Board of Appeal relies on its own CGK to support an inventive step objection without remittal to first instance (T 1370/15) - The IPKatApr 28 03:51
schestowitz__Those, dear Attentive, are really interesting and surprising observations and I thank you for them. I like your remarks on the different roles of Art 84 and 69 EPC.Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__In England, litigation is supposed to be a "last resort". 90% or more declared (court-registered) patent disputes settle before trial, thanks to forensic English pre-trial fact-finding procedures.Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__These procedures explore the facts that are disputed between the parties. Mostly, they concern what was the "common general knowledge" of the notional skilled person. If it was easy to determine what that cgk was, there would be no dispute before the courts and heading for trial. as to what was the cgk, there are often differences between the Parties that are decisive for the outcome of the case at trial.Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__In a hard 50:50 case, where there is a genuine difference of opinion as to what was the cgk, it is therefore NOT "easy" for an ED or OD to "give a source". So much of the mental furniture of the skilled person is stuff that is so "obvious" that it "goes without saying" (as we say in English). And anything that "goes without saying" will be hard to find with a "word search" or other trawl through a library of books or patent Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__publications, precisely because in the whole of the prior art universe it "went without saying".Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__Looking at this case, and the way the TBA handled it, did not the Board give the patent owner more than enough opportunity to take issue with the Board's statement of what was common knowledge? If the patent owner found itself unable to argue in writing against the Board's written assessment of what was the common knowledge of the skilled person, why should the Board, at oral proceedings, have any doubts about the accuracy of its Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__assessment? What's so unfair about the way this case was decided? Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__"Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__ 28 03:51
schestowitz__"Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__@ Anonymous of Thursday, 22 April 2021 at 15:12:00 BSTApr 28 03:51
schestowitz__I beg to disagree and a more differentiated view is in my humble opinion necessary. Art 84 is to primarily be applied at the EPO. Examination should be such that any claim granted by the EPO should be clear, concise and supported by the description. Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__Should this aim not have been reached, then Art 69 comes into play. The fact that Art 69 exists does not mean that clarity is to be diluted from the start and that we should from the start have to take the description into account. Apr 28 03:51
-TechrightsBN/ | Boeing's comma drama: Commas and taking the description into account when construing a claim (T 1127/16) - The IPKatApr 28 03:51
schestowitz__I would go as far as to say that if a claim is not clear by itself, then how on Earth is it possible to say that its subject-matter is at all novel or inventive?Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__I said it before, do not be surprised that with a woolly claim you face objections of lack of novelty or inventive step. But please do not come with the excuse that when you look at the description your woolly claim is crystal clear and the lack of patentability is not justified. If it is so crystal clear when one looks at the description, then why not bring it in the claim.Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__The BA are right when they state in general that Art 69 is not for the EPO, but mainly for post grant procedures. Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__When claims specify parts that have no clearly recognised name, then the best way to avoid an objection under Art 84 is to bring into the claim the more precise definition found in the description. It should not be required by third parties to look first at the description when trying to understand parts of the claims that have no clearly recognised name. Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__I fully understand the temptation to have leave some lack of determination in a claim so as to catch a maximum of potential infringers, but this is not what Art 84 allows. Apr 28 03:51
schestowitz__"Apr 28 03:51
Techrights-sec2looks like a lot of spider traffic indexing the capsule thenApr 28 08:12
schestowitz__about 50%Apr 28 08:12
schestowitz__earlier on the TR site was hammered again on the news section, /category/news (high b/w, hence a target), so I left tmux on the config file where 3 lines can be uncommented if it happens again (and I'm afk). This also happened yesterday and maybe we can deploy the file swapper on that site too, if it becomes a daily strain.Apr 28 09:31
schestowitz__I've also expanded a wee bit the log thrasher for gemini, very simple scriptApr 28 09:32
Techrights-sec2   Apr 28 09:32
-TechrightsBN/ | Terrorist Content Online (TERREG Regulation) – Patrick BreyerApr 28 09:33
schestowitz__well spottedApr 28 16:35
Techrights-sec2it just started, there had been calm the rest of the timeApr 28 16:36
schestowitz__1500+ heavy reqs in 30 secs, usually even hundreds are enough to cause harmApr 28 16:36
Techrights-sec2I saw it after it had already gotten up over 1000Apr 28 16:37
schestowitz__Muppet Labs, EPO, who knows....Apr 28 16:37
Techrights-sec2They're probably careful to outsource the dirty work these days.Apr 28 16:38
schestowitz__I recently started wondering about retirement so I can focus 100% on the sites, even if they make no moneyApr 28 16:39
Techrights-sec2You can probably put away double retirement investments for some years and Apr 28 16:42
Techrights-sec2then cash out earlier.   Otherwise, most of the other ways are highlyApr 28 16:42
Techrights-sec2questionable and usually unethical if also at the same time common.Apr 28 16:42
schestowitz__maybe we could pull if off if it weren't for inflationApr 28 16:42
Techrights-sec2It is important to plan ahead for a reasonable amount of inlfation andApr 28 16:45
Techrights-sec2other cost-of-living increases.Apr 28 16:45
Techrights-sec2Repair work is about 4x to 5x these days what it was not long ago, at      Apr 28 16:45
Techrights-sec2least here.Apr 28 16:45
schestowitz__for now the job is manageable and I am used to it. Maybe it'll be my last "normal" job. Time will tell...Apr 28 16:45
Techrights-sec2Best to get more settled financially first.Apr 28 16:50
schestowitz__ 28 17:13
-TechrightsBN/ | Zellij Is A New Terminal Multiplexer Written In Rust - Linux Uprising BlogApr 28 17:13
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schestowitz__> Dear RoyApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> Just to confirm that I will check the two main issues I identified inApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> the previous email: a) Jurisdiction and b) Freedom of expression.Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__At one point you may also wish to contact Ben as he too was banned, one day apart from me, for the same reason. It was about patents on vaccines.Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__Making up excuses later, along the lines of formality, only obscures things.Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__What I said wasn't even particularly controversial. I saw and collected HUNDREDS of articles on this topic since then. Many NGOs agree with me. Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> As I mentioned, the starting point is the first one, the jurisdictionalApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> issue. I will start the enquiries soon and will update you accordingly.Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> I may need to ask you at some point for more details or to involve youApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> directly, as I am not personally affected and hence, I cannot showApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> personal detriment for the purpose of appeal, etc. But we will write theApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> letters together.Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__Thanks.Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> My plan is to identify public bodies, independent regulatory authoritiesApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> and other governmental/parliamentary bodies that deal with these mattersApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> either in regulatory/adjudicating capacity or in policy-making.Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__Good. Apr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> I agree that the matter is of wider concern, so it is worth pursuing itApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> anyway, but your case is important, as your voice is expressed at a veryApr 28 17:53
schestowitz__> specialised level that is usually beyond public scrutiny.Apr 28 17:54
schestowitz__Notice how EPO isn't criticised in the media. At all! See Apr 28 17:54
schestowitz__> Please feel free to send me any information or thoughts, as you thinkApr 28 17:54
-TechrightsBN/ | EPOLeaks on Misleading the Bundestag — Part 19: The Deafening Silence of the Media | TechrightsApr 28 17:54
schestowitz__> appropriate.Apr 28 17:54
schestowitz__> Apr 28 17:54
schestowitz__> I am placing this in my working weekly schedule; I have also other workApr 28 17:54
schestowitz__> commitments and will soon have to relocate, but we will gradually buildApr 28 17:54
schestowitz__> the case for more control on Twitter and for the opening of yourApr 28 17:54
schestowitz__> personal page.Apr 28 17:54
schestowitz__Recent and of interest, regarding EPO:Apr 28 17:54
schestowitz__ 28 17:54
schestowitz__ 28 17:54
schestowitz__Truth is harder to publish then lies. Sometimes...Apr 28 17:54
-TechrightsBN/ | EPOLeaks on Misleading the Bundestag — Part 20: Taking Stock | TechrightsApr 28 17:54
-TechrightsBN/ | EPO and Microsoft Collude to Break the Law — Summing Up: EPO Administrative Council Still Asleep at the Wheel | TechrightsApr 28 17:54
schestowitz__*thenApr 28 17:55
schestowitz__*thanApr 28 17:55
schestowitz__ 28 17:59
-TechrightsBN/ How much did #microsoft pay blogs to commandeer them for #windows spam that's #googlebombing "LINUX" just because they added a small "g" to old crap nobody uses? Apr 28 17:59
schestowitz__"added a small "g"? is it now WSgL, Windows Subsystem for gNU/Linux?"Apr 28 17:59
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell--> | Only About 150,000 People Worldwide Use WSL2 (Windows Subsystem for Linux) | TechrightsApr 28 18:00
schestowitz__Microsoft wouldn't know GNU even if a live gnu trampled all over it like in Lion KingApr 28 18:00
schestowitz__ 28 18:00
-TechrightsBN/ The corporate version of “diversity and inclusion” has become the equivalent of "we value your privacy" in Web sites. They try to portray themselves as the very opposite of what they really are... Apr 28 18:00
schestowitz__"Apr 28 18:00
schestowitz__“your call is very important to us”Apr 28 18:00
schestowitz__the lies corps tell usApr 28 18:00
schestowitz__"Apr 28 18:00
schestowitz__Yeah, another one of those...Apr 28 18:00
schestowitz__ 28 18:02
-TechrightsBN/ Something bugging you in Fedora Linux? Let’s get it fixed! • 𝕿𝖚𝖝 𝕸𝖆𝖈𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖊𝖘 ⇨ •●• #GNU #Linux #TuxMachines Apr 28 18:02
schestowitz__"shall we tell them about misalignments with free software and excessive dependencies on proprietary technologies and corporations, or do they not care that these bug us?"Apr 28 18:02
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell--> | Something bugging you in Fedora Linux? Let’s get it fixed! | Tux MachinesApr 28 18:02
schestowitz__ 28 18:02
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Not a Diaspora post?Apr 28 18:02
schestowitz__"plaincryption?"Apr 28 18:02
schestowitz__PlainsmissionApr 28 18:02
schestowitz__ 28 18:04
-TechrightsBN/ Be careful of so-called 'journalists' who are in fact IBM-FUNDED operatives or hacks. I could not some of them, but would rather not make this personal. They'd demonise any IBM critic right now to secure their 'journalism' salary... Apr 28 18:04
schestowitz__"I still pity them for having to somehow portray the real struggle against injustice as irrelevant, fringe or personality cult. I expect they’re smart enough to realize, at some level, that they’re undermining their own freedoms. they wouldn’t be able to come up with such untestable hypotheses of a supposed monster in the garage otherwise. (background: and Apr 28 18:04
-TechrightsBN/ | Belief in Belief - LessWrongApr 28 18:04
schestowitz__sagan’s article it references and builds upon)"Apr 28 18:04
schestowitz__ 28 18:05
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Not a Diaspora post?Apr 28 18:05
schestowitz__"#somebodyshould create a retraction and apology letter to be signed by people who were misled into signing the hate letter but now can't take their names out"Apr 28 18:05
schestowitz__Some people still manage to get their names out THIS WEEK: 28 18:05
-TechrightsBN/ | The Anti-FSF Petition of GNOME Foundation and OSI Continues Losing Signatures | TechrightsApr 28 18:05
schestowitz__ 28 18:06
-TechrightsBN/ cruel system like having to promote or create #proprietarySoftware to make a living? Apr 28 18:06
-TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Could not resolve host:; Unknown error ( status 0 @ )Apr 28 18:06
schestowitz__"Apr 28 18:06
schestowitz__though “freedom or death” is a thing, I’d hesitate before making that comparison; it might freeze my positronic circuits ;-DApr 28 18:06
schestowitz__it’s really hard to compare. like, if I were to be forced to promote or create nonfree software, that wouldn’t put my life at risk, even though I’d be miserable and might have thoughts of putting an end to my hypothetical miseryApr 28 18:06
schestowitz__now, nonfree software is really part of this dreaded system, so promoting and reinforcing it does indirectly lead to more than the evils normally assigned by us to nonfree software, including the deaths caused by that systemApr 28 18:06
schestowitz__but since there are so many intermediate agents involved, it becomes a lot harder to reason about the broader ethical implications.Apr 28 18:06
schestowitz__and then, some people (like the .br president) seem to take strong offense upon encountering suggestions that they’re even partially responsible for genocide, so I’m not sure I’d want to advance such an argument in relation to promotion of nonfree software, even if I were fully on board with it. it sounds like it could backfire and thus not bring about positive change.Apr 28 18:06
schestowitz__"Apr 28 18:06
schestowitz__Genocide might be the wrong term unless COVID only affects a particular ethnicity or genetic ("gen"/racial) groupApr 28 18:07
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schestowitz__ 28 18:28
-TechrightsBN/ Turns out, I'm told now ("they don't want any more individuals to sign up for some reason. oddly, that decision came after several people submitted pull requests asking to get de-listed") that the real number of signatures on #RMS defamation and hate letter may be going down. So they froze it. LOL. Apr 28 18:28
schestowitz__"and anyone who faces difficulties revoking their signatures please get in touch, I know someone who’s eager to do something about it"Apr 28 18:28
schestowitz__Send me email about it and maybe I can work with that person to do justice...Apr 28 18:28
schestowitz__ 28 18:28
-TechrightsBN/ I think we need a catchy new term for fake #encryption (wherein states and parties in the middle see everything). Maybe fakeryption? Apr 28 18:28
schestowitz__"crypto as in currency >-)"Apr 28 18:28
schestowitz__ 28 18:28
-TechrightsBN/ cruel system like having to promote or create #proprietarySoftware to make a living? Apr 28 18:29
schestowitz__"I agree genocide when applied to as diverse a population as the Brazilian one is a bit of a misnomer. I welcome suggestions of more accurate terms."Apr 28 18:29
schestowitz__Brazil is probably the most racially diverse population in the planetApr 28 18:29
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