(ℹ) Join us now at the IRC channel | ䷉ Find the plain text version at this address.
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/19821701 | Jan 08 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Corrupt media now spreads #golang and #gnu #linux FUD in conjunction. It seems to have originated from a site whose mod/editor was arrested for raping kids while working for Microsoft (Peter Bright). | Jan 08 00:01 | |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2019/06/07/microsoft-peter-is-a-pedophile/ | Jan 08 00:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Peter is a Pedophile, Arrested Without Bail | Techrights | Jan 08 00:01 | |
| schestowitz | convicted | Jan 08 00:01 |
| schestowitz | and arrested for a long time | Jan 08 00:01 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2020/08/16/microsoft-peter-convicted/ | Jan 08 00:01 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Peter Convicted for Pedophilia (and Still Defending Pedophilia) | Techrights | Jan 08 00:01 | |
| *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) | Jan 08 00:01 | |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2019/07/30/microsoft-peter-lives-on/ | Jan 08 00:02 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Even After Microsoft Lost Its PR ‘Asset’ at Ars Technica (Arrested for Sexually Abusing Kids) Ars Technica Persists With Microsoft Advocacy (in ‘News’ Form) | Techrights | Jan 08 00:02 | |
| vZS1 | I've been seeing this since the middle of 2020 | Jan 08 00:03 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/19821717 | Jan 08 00:03 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Still waiting for so-called 'social justice warriors' to call for shutdown of #arstechnica and its parent company that also operates #reddit (a hornet's nest for pedophiles) http://techrights.org/2019/07/30/microsoft-peter-lives-on/ | Jan 08 00:03 | |
| vZS1 | But the frequency and volume is increasing | Jan 08 00:03 |
| vZS1 | Tiktok is also a hornet's nest for pedos | Jan 08 00:04 |
| vZS1 | Significant chunk of videos on TikTok is sexualised minors | Jan 08 00:05 |
| schestowitz | just in: https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/01/07/encrypted-client-hello-the-future-of-esni-in-firefox/ | Jan 08 00:08 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.mozilla.org | Encrypted Client Hello: the future of ESNI in Firefox - Mozilla Security Blog | Jan 08 00:08 | |
| schestowitz | " we’re eager for users to realize the privacy benefits of this feature." | Jan 08 00:09 |
| schestowitz | Whose privacy? | Jan 08 00:09 |
| schestowitz | "In keeping with our mission of protecting your privacy online, Mozilla is actively working with Cloudflare and others on standardizing the Encrypted Client Hello specification at the IETF. Firefox 85 replaces ESNI with ECH draft-08, and another update to draft-09 (which is targeted for wider interoperability testing and deployment) is forthcoming." | Jan 08 00:09 |
| schestowitz | LOL! | Jan 08 00:09 |
| schestowitz | ClownFlare | Jan 08 00:09 |
| XRevan86 | ECH is a good thing though. | Jan 08 00:11 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla and privacy are opposites as of recent years http://techrights.org/2020/06/25/mozilla-comcast/ | Jan 08 00:11 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Mozilla Shames Itself and Harms Its Reputation by Stating That “Comcast Has Taken Major Steps to Protect Customer Privacy” | Techrights | Jan 08 00:11 | |
| XRevan86 | ECH is actually good for privacy. | Jan 08 00:11 |
| schestowitz | look who mozilla outsources to | Jan 08 00:12 |
| schestowitz | comcast, clownflare | Jan 08 00:12 |
| schestowitz | it's potentially good | Jan 08 00:12 |
| schestowitz | like signing bootloaders and stuff | Jan 08 00:12 |
| schestowitz | in practice, however, it is outsourced to the very worst actors out there | Jan 08 00:12 |
| XRevan86 | It's a way to encrypt the domain name of a connecting host with TLS. | Jan 08 00:12 |
| schestowitz | it's like saying e2ee is good | Jan 08 00:12 |
| schestowitz | and then giving your keys to fb | Jan 08 00:13 |
| schestowitz | or disk encryption is good | Jan 08 00:13 |
| schestowitz | but Microsoft gets your private key for bitlocker and has a back door at OS level | Jan 08 00:13 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: Give me a scenario where ECH is taking something away. | Jan 08 00:13 |
| schestowitz | my ISP has my Net/browsing history | Jan 08 00:13 |
| schestowitz | with Mozilla I might even give that to another country | Jan 08 00:14 |
| XRevan86 | And that's a good thing? | Jan 08 00:14 |
| schestowitz | which is run by a nazi | Jan 08 00:14 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: I think you're confusing ECH with DoH. | Jan 08 00:14 |
| schestowitz | no, two different things | Jan 08 00:14 |
| schestowitz | whrre mozilla collabs with clowns | Jan 08 00:14 |
| XRevan86 | ECH is a TLS extension. | Jan 08 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla is spying | Jan 08 00:15 |
| XRevan86 | an encrypted bundle at the point of an early handshake | Jan 08 00:15 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2019/11/03/the-privacy-scam/ | Jan 08 00:15 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Facebook and Other Surveillance Capitalists Won’t Save Mozilla From Google Dependence | Techrights | Jan 08 00:15 | |
| schestowitz | Mozilla is dead | Jan 08 00:15 |
| schestowitz | stick a fork on it | Jan 08 00:15 |
| schestowitz | there are already some forks | Jan 08 00:15 |
| XRevan86 | to allow not giving away some ClientHello information to the MitM | Jan 08 00:15 |
| schestowitz | I hope the good ones do reasonably well | Jan 08 00:15 |
| XRevan86 | like ISPs or government spying tools | Jan 08 00:15 |
| MinceR | (cat) https://full.pr0gramm.com/2020/11/18/0d072b38378ec088.jpg | Jan 08 00:16 |
| XRevan86 | schestowitz: What you're referring to here is literally the opposite of that. | Jan 08 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | ECH is something that takes away snooping / targeted blocking powers from MitMs. | Jan 08 00:17 |
| XRevan86 | I don't know why Cloudflare is invested in this as the only thing they're getting out of this is a global cloudfront block from Roskomnadzor. | Jan 08 00:18 |
| XRevan86 | because when they can't do a targeted block, they'll just block the whole thing | Jan 08 00:19 |
| schestowitz | that's a political thing | Jan 08 00:24 |
| schestowitz | it gives the US more power | Jan 08 00:24 |
| schestowitz | to intercept and interject things | Jan 08 00:24 |
| schestowitz | CF should be banned mentally at least | Jan 08 00:24 |
| XRevan86 | ECH? No, it doesn't. | Jan 08 00:24 |
| schestowitz | CF is an extension of social control mechanisms | Jan 08 00:24 |
| schestowitz | not free speech | Jan 08 00:25 |
| schestowitz | they already shut down some users | Jan 08 00:25 |
| cybrNaut- | there's a good shit-list of CloudFlare's history of wrongdoing here: https://codeberg.org/swiso/website/issues/141 | Jan 08 00:31 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-#141 - Remove Liberapay and Open Collective - website - Codeberg.org | Jan 08 00:32 | |
| cybrNaut- | when CF touts crypto, it's normally crypto that terminates at CF, because CF expects everyone to trust them and CF wants to profits from all that data | Jan 08 00:33 |
| cybrNaut- | looks like ECH is somehow needed for DNS-over-HTTPS, and that's something CF pushes. So that explains why CF wants a piece of the ECH action | Jan 08 00:36 |
| MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/720533.jpg | Jan 08 00:37 |
| XRevan86 | cybrNaut-: Well, if DNS is encrypted, then having SNI just expose the domain name anyway is something that mocks the whole idea. | Jan 08 00:37 |
| cybrNaut- | CF has managed to coerce mobile phone users to route all their traffic through CF, even when the destination site is not a CF site (by promising them better performance), and their DNS services are connected to that | Jan 08 00:38 |
| XRevan86 | But technically these are separate concerns. | Jan 08 00:38 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: I saw some of these before, iirc | Jan 08 01:00 |
| schestowitz | XRevan86: CF as a whole is a concern | Jan 08 01:00 |
| schestowitz | in all context | Jan 08 01:00 |
| schestowitz | or contexts | Jan 08 01:01 |
| schestowitz | for the same reason apple and microsoft are | Jan 08 01:01 |
| schestowitz | and we need to strive to put CF out of 'business' | Jan 08 01:01 |
| schestowitz | to undermine their bad functions | Jan 08 01:01 |
| schestowitz | nothing else can stop their abuse | Jan 08 01:01 |
| vZS1 | CF want to be acquired by someone | Jan 08 01:02 |
| vZS1 | They're operating at a loss | Jan 08 01:02 |
| vZS1 | Their whole model is to keep scaling as long as people buy shares | Jan 08 01:03 |
| vZS1 | It's a very popular tech share | Jan 08 01:03 |
| vZS1 | About x8 of the IPO price rn | Jan 08 01:03 |
| vZS1 | But it's a bubble | Jan 08 01:04 |
| vZS1 | This will not last | Jan 08 01:04 |
| vZS1 | It's likely they're propped up by the surveillance actors as well | Jan 08 01:05 |
| vZS1 | You can see the balance sheets. They still haven't turned a profit | Jan 08 01:06 |
| vZS1 | But the share price keeps climbing. | Jan 08 01:09 |
| vZS1 | People use CF as a CDN as well. Huge clients like Steam (Valve corporation) | Jan 08 01:10 |
| vZS1 | Steam relies heavily on CF for its CDN | Jan 08 01:11 |
| vZS1 | I poked around a bit | Jan 08 01:11 |
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| MinceR | https://hugelol.com/lol/720449 | Jan 08 01:45 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-hugelol.com | An erection, but fancier | Jan 08 01:45 | |
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| MinceR | https://hugelolcdn.com/i/720098.png | Jan 08 02:39 |
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| psydroid | https://community.intel.com/t5/Intel-ISA-Extensions/Why-is-Intel-allowing-this/td-p/1085045 | Jan 08 03:56 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-community.intel.com | Solved: Why is Intel allowing this?!? - Intel Community | Jan 08 03:56 | |
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| MinceR | should have thought about that before handing money to the redmond mafia | Jan 08 04:15 |
| MinceR | lol @ proposing crapOS as a "solution" | Jan 08 04:17 |
| MinceR | i wonder what that dumbass will say when crApple stops supporting his intel-based PC because they're all about ARM | Jan 08 04:18 |
| psydroid | these people really like becoming victims of their own short-sighted decisions | Jan 08 04:20 |
| MinceR | or they're too stupid to learn from their own mistakes, regardless of how many times they get burned | Jan 08 04:20 |
| CrystalMath | psydroid: who? | Jan 08 04:30 |
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| schestowitz | [03:56] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- community.intel.com | Solved: Why is Intel allowing this?!? - Intel Community | Jan 08 06:42 |
| schestowitz | LOL Intel Community | Jan 08 06:42 |
| schestowitz | how can one join? | Jan 08 06:43 |
| schestowitz | what Intel Community benefits? | Jan 08 06:43 |
| schestowitz | [01:05] <vZS1> It's likely they're propped up by the surveillance actors as well | Jan 08 06:46 |
| schestowitz | github | Jan 08 06:46 |
| schestowitz | vZS1: | Jan 08 06:47 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/tonroosendaal/status/1003590417848455168 | Jan 08 06:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@tonroosendaal: Why was Blender not on @github? Simple: Github already accepted $350M (at least) from venture capitalists - who wan… https://t.co/RYfRCMBtob | Jan 08 06:47 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@tonroosendaal: Why was Blender not on @github? Simple: Github already accepted $350M (at least) from venture capitalists - who wan… https://t.co/RYfRCMBtob | Jan 08 06:47 | |
| schestowitz | Blender’s ‘daddy’ Ton Roosendaal (@tonroosendaal) wrote this when Microsoft announced the takeover of GitHub: “Why was Blender not on @github? Simple: Github already accepted $350M (at least) from venture capitalists – who want it back with huge profits. And whatever Microsoft pays for it, they will want it back too. Who pays in the end? The users. FYI: Blender has its code on http://git.blender.org and developer services on | Jan 08 06:48 |
| schestowitz | http://developer.blender.org – we already host our own services since 2002. About “users paying”: I don’t mean the freemium model. I believe that in due time @github services slowly degrade to losing control and ownership of your work.” | Jan 08 06:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-git.blender.org | Jan 08 06:48 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-developer.blender.org | Home | Jan 08 06:48 | |
| schestowitz | via http://techrights.org/2020/08/23/blender-payments-from-microsoft-and-unity/ | Jan 08 06:48 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Hand Inside the Blender: Microsoft Money for Blender’s Development Fund is Not a ‘Cookie Jar’ Donation But Another Power Move | Techrights | Jan 08 06:48 | |
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| Techrights-sec | http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-070121.html#tJan%2007%2022:44:41 | Jan 08 07:35 |
| Techrights-sec | NFS mount or external USB drive? | Jan 08 07:35 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Thursday, January 07, 2021 | Jan 08 07:35 | |
| schestowitz | yes, I would do that at a later point, I can plug in, e.g., USB | Jan 08 07:36 |
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| schestowitz | vZS1: also for you | Jan 08 07:47 |
| schestowitz | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/filelink-large-attachments | Jan 08 07:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-support.mozilla.org | Filelink for Large Attachments | Thunderbird Help | Jan 08 07:47 | |
| schestowitz | thunberbird has just recommended that I use this | Jan 08 07:47 |
| schestowitz | for very personal docs I send | Jan 08 07:47 |
| schestowitz | 22mb | Jan 08 07:47 |
| schestowitz | "The instructions below show how to configure and use Filelink with the Box online storage provider. We have an agreement with them to integrate their services into Thunderbird as well. (We used to have an agreement with Hightail, formerly YouSendIt). However, the community has been active in adding other providers through the use of add-ons with FileRun, hubiC, Mega, ownCloud-based services, Pydio (formerly AjaXplorer), Synnefo, and | Jan 08 07:48 |
| schestowitz | ~okeanos currently having add-ons." | Jan 08 07:48 |
| schestowitz | they want me to send files to nsa prism!! | Jan 08 07:48 |
| schestowitz | not good! | Jan 08 07:48 |
| schestowitz | no encryption | Jan 08 07:49 |
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| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2021/01/07/inteleaks-interlude/ | Jan 08 08:13 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Why We Do ‘InteLeaks’ (and a Call For Further Input/Contributions) | Techrights | Jan 08 08:13 | |
| schestowitz | will do next part today | Jan 08 08:13 |
| schestowitz | connection still slow here | Jan 08 08:13 |
| schestowitz | very, very slow. Downstream also. | Jan 08 08:13 |
| schestowitz | BT is not coping | Jan 08 08:13 |
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| Techrights-sec | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-pence-remove/vice-president-pence-opposes-using-25th-amendment-to-remove-trump-business-insider-ny-times-idUSKBN29C36W | Jan 08 09:31 |
| Techrights-sec | Co-conspirators blocking removal | Jan 08 09:31 |
| Techrights-sec | ] | Jan 08 09:31 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Vice President Pence opposes using 25th amendment to remove Trump: Business Insider, NY Times | Reuters | Jan 08 09:31 | |
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| Techrights-sec | https://www.newsweek.com/what-25th-amendment-calls-trump-removal-1559608 | Jan 08 09:49 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.newsweek.com | What Is the 25th Amendment, Who Is Calling for It? Donald Trump Removal Urged After Capitol Chaos | Jan 08 09:49 | |
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| vZS1 | The filesharing problem has effectively been solved by FTP, BitTorrent, and IPFS. All these services are a bunch of data mining ploys. | Jan 08 10:07 |
| vZS1 | I don't know if you remember Firefox Send but that got wrapped up by Mozilla really quick | Jan 08 10:08 |
| vZS1 | Everyone should have an SBC at home | Jan 08 10:31 |
| vZS1 | You can just share stuff privately over SSH, if you don't want P2P. | Jan 08 10:31 |
| vZS1 | They're affordable and you actually own the damn device | Jan 08 10:32 |
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| Ariadne | https://nitter.net/MarkRenny1/status/1346405467166273537 | Jan 08 12:13 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nitter.net | Mark Renny (@MarkRenny1): "I predict it will be like this:" | nitter | Jan 08 12:13 | |
| XRevan86 | Ariadne: Rather stupid, innit? | Jan 08 12:18 |
| schestowitz | neee neee neee | Jan 08 12:18 |
| *XRevan86 loved it. | Jan 08 12:18 | |
| XRevan86 | https://nitter.net/eoinburgin/status/1346946053082378245 (cast scientes) | Jan 08 12:19 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nitter.net | Eoin. (@eoinburgin): "This guy really just typed 'Georgia flag' into Amazon and clicked on the top result" | nitter | Jan 08 12:19 | |
| CrystalMath | LOL | Jan 08 12:21 |
| CrystalMath | maybe he's georgian though? :P | Jan 08 12:21 |
| CrystalMath | they're saying the democrats who win in GA are communists.... | Jan 08 12:22 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: That would be… unlikely. | Jan 08 12:22 |
| CrystalMath | you know, that isn't impossible | Jan 08 12:22 |
| CrystalMath | after all, Stalin was from Georgia to | Jan 08 12:22 |
| CrystalMath | *too | Jan 08 12:22 |
| schestowitz | Georgia is from Stalin | Jan 08 12:24 |
| schestowitz | and in Soviet Russia | Jan 08 12:24 |
| CrystalMath | i was making a joke :) | Jan 08 12:25 |
| CrystalMath | another Georgia the country / GA USA pun | Jan 08 12:25 |
| XRevan86 | Georgia was part of the Russian Empire. Technically not of "Soviet Russia". | Jan 08 12:25 |
| XRevan86 | unless that equals to USSR fully | Jan 08 12:25 |
| schestowitz | x https://in.reuters.com/article/us-britain-assange-factbox-idUSKBN29900B | Jan 08 12:28 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Factbox: Who is Julian Assange? | Reuters | Jan 08 12:28 | |
| schestowitz | # more revisionism | Jan 08 12:28 |
| CrystalMath | Trump can still pardon him | Jan 08 12:31 |
| vZS1_2 | schestowitz: Maybe TR should do its own timeline of the Assange story. | Jan 08 12:32 |
| CrystalMath | https://www.salon.com/2020/12/23/trump-pardons-blackwater-war-criminals--but-ignores-julian-assange-who-exposed-us-war-crimes_partne | Jan 08 12:32 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ https://www.salon.com/2020/12/23/trump-pardons-blackwater-war-criminals--but-ignores-julian-assange-who-exposed-us-war-crimes_partne/ ) | Jan 08 12:32 | |
| CrystalMath | https://www.salon.com/2020/12/23/trump-pardons-blackwater-war-criminals--but-ignores-julian-assange-who-exposed-us-war-crimes_partner/ | Jan 08 12:32 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trump pardons Blackwater war criminals — but ignores Julian Assange, who exposed U.S. war crimes | Salon.com | Jan 08 12:32 | |
| CrystalMath | sad | Jan 08 12:32 |
| vZS1_2 | schestowitz: I've also pulled the latest binary release of GNU IceCat. It's working pretty well. The controls are very convenient (mostly in GUI form). You should check it out. | Jan 08 12:33 |
| vZS1_2 | You can turn JS on/off in the GUI and it's based on wildcards so it's pretty easy to understand what's going on. | Jan 08 12:35 |
| vZS1_2 | There's also a very neat third-party request blocker which is a great way to see exactly what else is being pinged when you load a page | Jan 08 12:36 |
| vZS1_2 | They've implemented this as an addon to keep things modular | Jan 08 12:36 |
| vZS1_2 | Overall, very impressed. | Jan 08 12:36 |
| vZS1_2 | I've tried logging in to some services which require a "trusted" browser and IceCat manages to sneak through. | Jan 08 12:38 |
| schestowitz | vZS1_2: advantages over falkon other than gecko? | Jan 08 12:39 |
| schestowitz | vZS1_2: re Assange, we did some articles about him | Jan 08 12:40 |
| schestowitz | I know the real timeline very well, I was like friends with him | Jan 08 12:40 |
| schestowitz | (not spoken for years, for obvious reasons, except his mom) | Jan 08 12:40 |
| schestowitz | His mom likes and trusts me... since like a decade back | Jan 08 12:40 |
| schestowitz | vZS1_2: maybe a fast way tro address the above is do a quick video rebutting the "official" timelines from CNN, Canada's oligarchy (Reuters) etc. | Jan 08 12:42 |
| vZS1_2 | >schestowitz vZS1_2: advantages over falkon other than gecko? | Jan 08 12:43 |
| vZS1_2 | Idk, tbh. | Jan 08 12:43 |
| schestowitz | I am doing a video about FSF atm | Jan 08 12:43 |
| schestowitz | one take, uploading now | Jan 08 12:43 |
| schestowitz | this can take 6 hours to finish uploading | Jan 08 12:43 |
| schestowitz | vZS1_2: I tried gnu icecat when it was new | Jan 08 12:43 |
| schestowitz | maybe 2007 | Jan 08 12:43 |
| vZS1_2 | My main issue is accessing some services which falkon and Konqueror can't. That's solved now. | Jan 08 12:43 |
| schestowitz | maybe even 2006 | Jan 08 12:43 |
| schestowitz | falkon can fake its identity | Jan 08 12:44 |
| schestowitz | to fool http header sniffers | Jan 08 12:44 |
| Ariadne | [05:31:36] <CrystalMath> Trump can still pardon him | Jan 08 12:44 |
| Ariadne | at this point anything trump does is going straight to /dev/null | Jan 08 12:44 |
| Ariadne | the military and everyone else is now listening to pence | Jan 08 12:45 |
| mjg59 | Pardons are a constitutional authority, unless his constitutional status has changed he still can | Jan 08 12:46 |
| vZS1_2 | Idk how well IceCat supports WebRTC stuff, but it seems to partially support some things. | Jan 08 12:46 |
| XRevan86 | CrystalMath: Another explanation is that this may be intentional, but that is also… unlikely. | Jan 08 12:47 |
| vZS1_2 | >schestowitz vZS1_2: maybe a fast way tro address the above is do a quick video rebutting the "official" timelines from CNN, Canada's oligarchy (Reuters) etc. | Jan 08 12:47 |
| vZS1_2 | Sounds like a good idea. | Jan 08 12:47 |
| vZS1_2 | A quick image would help. | Jan 08 12:48 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: Trump is still president until January 20th | Jan 08 12:48 |
| vZS1_2 | All these "summary" timelines are embedding things that fit their agenda. And no links to official sources and judgements. | Jan 08 12:49 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: That's the default, not a guarantee | Jan 08 12:50 |
| Ariadne | CrystalMath: yes, and nobody is actually following his orders | Jan 08 12:50 |
| Ariadne | CrystalMath: he is president in name only at this point | Jan 08 12:50 |
| vZS1_2 | A "news-free" timeline from TR would do a lot of good. | Jan 08 12:50 |
| CrystalMath | well Trump is still president until he gets removed or january 20th | Jan 08 12:50 |
| CrystalMath | he can still pardon Assange faster than they vote to remove him :P | Jan 08 12:50 |
| CrystalMath | but he should have done so yesterday | Jan 08 12:50 |
| Ariadne | a pardon is just an executive order | Jan 08 12:50 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: You can definitely spend time defending a rapist if you want | Jan 08 12:51 |
| Ariadne | they can ignore it | Jan 08 12:51 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: i don't think so | Jan 08 12:51 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: Constitutionally, not really | Jan 08 12:51 |
| CrystalMath | i think executive orders by a legal president do matter | Jan 08 12:51 |
| Ariadne | mjg59: true | Jan 08 12:52 |
| mjg59 | You'd need the legislative branch to but into the idea | Jan 08 12:52 |
| Ariadne | we are in a pretty strange situation atm | Jan 08 12:52 |
| schestowitz | mjg59: piss off | Jan 08 12:52 |
| CrystalMath | Trump condemned the attack on congress and conceded | Jan 08 12:52 |
| mjg59 | Where by legislative I mean judicial, and by but I mean buy | Jan 08 12:52 |
| CrystalMath | so he is going away, that's for sure | Jan 08 12:52 |
| Ariadne | CrystalMath: the attack he caused | Jan 08 12:52 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: strong counterargument | Jan 08 12:52 |
| CrystalMath | but before he goes, he could pardon Assange | Jan 08 12:52 |
| schestowitz | you make a false accusation | Jan 08 12:52 |
| schestowitz | against Julian | Jan 08 12:52 |
| Ariadne | if i were assange i would not want to be pardoned by trump :))) | Jan 08 12:53 |
| schestowitz | and indirectly against me | Jan 08 12:53 |
| schestowitz | you work for war criminals, mjg59 | Jan 08 12:53 |
| schestowitz | and then you call people who expose crimes "rapists" | Jan 08 12:53 |
| vZS1_2 | schestowitz: stop feeding the troll and let's focus on the real problem. | Jan 08 12:53 |
| schestowitz | and say the same about those who defend the exposers | Jan 08 12:53 |
| schestowitz | so yes, PISS OFF | Jan 08 12:53 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Dude's directly and credibly accused of raping someone | Jan 08 12:53 |
| *schestowitz ignores Google troll | Jan 08 12:53 | |
| mjg59 | You keep saying you ignore me, and then you write about me instead | Jan 08 12:54 |
| Ariadne | how about this | Jan 08 12:54 |
| Ariadne | we get schestowitz and mjg59 in the octogon | Jan 08 12:54 |
| Ariadne | UFC style | Jan 08 12:54 |
| schestowitz | he doesn't stand a chance | Jan 08 12:54 |
| mjg59 | Oh man I am physically feeble | Jan 08 12:54 |
| schestowitz | I'm not his weight divison | Jan 08 12:54 |
| mjg59 | But hey if I need to take a beating in order to call Assange a rapist I'm ok with that | Jan 08 12:55 |
| vZS1_2 | schestowitz: The Assange PDFs are pretty popular btw. I had a look at the IPFS logs and there were several thousand requests for it. | Jan 08 12:55 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Images/images3.htm | Jan 08 12:55 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Images: Bodyshots | Jan 08 12:55 | |
| CrystalMath | mjg59: that's not what america's charging him for, though | Jan 08 12:55 |
| mjg59 | Yeah, the US case is bullshit and he should be free now | Jan 08 12:55 |
| CrystalMath | mjg59: Trump can't pardon him over the sweden thing | Jan 08 12:55 |
| Ariadne | yes, the US should pardon him and then he should go to sweden and resolve his affairs there | Jan 08 12:56 |
| CrystalMath | he can only do that regarding the bullcrap case in the US, yes | Jan 08 12:56 |
| Ariadne | but if i were him, i mean, bluntly a trump pardon is not a good look | Jan 08 12:56 |
| schestowitz | I will do a video about the Assange timeline | Jan 08 12:56 |
| mjg59 | Assange is a rapist who avoided being found guilty and as a result should not be subject to punishment by the state | Jan 08 12:56 |
| schestowitz | I know AP and CNN have timelines also | Jan 08 12:56 |
| schestowitz | highly misleading ones | Jan 08 12:56 |
| vZS1_2 | I've sent the logs back to /dev/null now though. I don't have enough disk on my node to keep that running for long. The DHT produces an immense amount of log data. | Jan 08 12:56 |
| mjg59 | There's zero reason to keep him in restricted custody | Jan 08 12:57 |
| mjg59 | Doesn't change the fact that he's a rapist | Jan 08 12:57 |
| mjg59 | Assange has been selectively prosecuted, subject to inhumane treatment and should be free now | Jan 08 13:00 |
| mjg59 | And also he's a rapist | Jan 08 13:00 |
| mjg59 | I've got no problem believing all these thigns at the same time | Jan 08 13:00 |
| Ariadne | basically that | Jan 08 13:00 |
| mjg59 | The strange thing is believing that because he's a political target he must be innocent of everything else | Jan 08 13:01 |
| Ariadne | at this point its all moot anyway | Jan 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | [12:32] <vZS1_2> schestowitz: Maybe TR should do its own timeline of the Assange story. | Jan 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | I have just reviewed the link above | Jan 08 13:03 |
| Ariadne | whatever happened happened a decade ago | Jan 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | it's really blatantly wrong | Jan 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | omits a ton of staff | Jan 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | to focus on women | Jan 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | and nothing about what wikileaks showed | Jan 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | I will do a rebuttal in video in a moment | Jan 08 13:03 |
| schestowitz | I'm off work till Monday | Jan 08 13:03 |
| vZS1_2 | Which is why we need a TR piece to set it right | Jan 08 13:03 |
| mjg59 | When discussing whether or not he's a rapist, it makes sense to focus on the women he raped | Jan 08 13:03 |
| mjg59 | And not on the other things he did | Jan 08 13:04 |
| schestowitz | please ignore mjg59, he's an incendiary troll like Donald Trump | Jan 08 13:04 |
| mjg59 | If you want to say he's a rapist who also did good work, sure, that's fine | Jan 08 13:04 |
| mjg59 | I wouldn't disagree | Jan 08 13:04 |
| mjg59 | Collatoral Murder was important work | Jan 08 13:04 |
| schestowitz | vZS1_2: right | Jan 08 13:05 |
| mjg59 | I'm glad that was released | Jan 08 13:05 |
| Ariadne | in fairness, it's a little more gray than "he is a rapist" | Jan 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | i know what to say | Jan 08 13:05 |
| schestowitz | mental notes | Jan 08 13:05 |
| Ariadne | in most jurisdictions what happened wouldn't be defined that way | Jan 08 13:05 |
| Ariadne | and sweden went through some gymnastics to make a very flimsy case | Jan 08 13:05 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: Eh conditional consent is something that's understood in an increasing number of jurisdictions | Jan 08 13:06 |
| Ariadne | i would say he is a womanizer though, and i've seen that for myself | Jan 08 13:06 |
| mjg59 | Also depressingly transphobic, which I found surprising | Jan 08 13:06 |
| Ariadne | yes, that lead to some of his falling out with indymedia peopl | Jan 08 13:06 |
| Ariadne | e | Jan 08 13:06 |
| CrystalMath | i agree that Assange is transphobic, but that's not unfixable | Jan 08 13:07 |
| CrystalMath | i think he just doesn't understand it | Jan 08 13:07 |
| Ariadne | nor is the conditional consent violations he did | Jan 08 13:07 |
| Ariadne | he can and should still make things right with those women | Jan 08 13:07 |
| Ariadne | and if he did, that would likely be the end of it tbh | Jan 08 13:08 |
| mjg59 | I think any degree of acceptance of misbehaviour on his part would have made a lot of things go away | Jan 08 13:09 |
| Ariadne | but he used to go around wowing women with his computer skills, and took that up to 11 with wikileaks, trying to project a "sexy revolutionary" image | Jan 08 13:09 |
| Ariadne | his work is important, but he is a flawed person | Jan 08 13:09 |
| mjg59 | I'm not certain that the world is a better place as a result of Assange, but I wouldn't disagree with people who claim it | Jan 08 13:10 |
| Ariadne | and in "hacker" circles, the ability to say "wow, i did something fucked up" and learn from it is actually highly valued | Jan 08 13:10 |
| Ariadne | at least in the circles i participate in anyway | Jan 08 13:10 |
| mjg59 | But treating him as a hero who has done no wrong is massively inappropriate | Jan 08 13:10 |
| Ariadne | yeah, he's more of a zefram cochrane (sorry for the star trek reference, but it is an apt comparison) | Jan 08 13:10 |
| mjg59 | And any timeline of his behaviour needs to include him actually doing bad things | Jan 08 13:10 |
| CrystalMath | idk, it's easier to imagine Assange as a shining angel | Jan 08 13:10 |
| CrystalMath | all people are flawed | Jan 08 13:11 |
| Ariadne | easy, but not realistic | Jan 08 13:11 |
| CrystalMath | but few people do as much good as julian assange | Jan 08 13:11 |
| Ariadne | it is possible to do a lot of good, while also doing things that are not good | Jan 08 13:11 |
| CrystalMath | sure, but also note that lots of people do bad things all the time | Jan 08 13:12 |
| mjg59 | To be clear, Chelsea Manning is a friend | Jan 08 13:12 |
| CrystalMath | just not extraordinarily bad | Jan 08 13:12 |
| mjg59 | And I support what she did | Jan 08 13:12 |
| Ariadne | i don't support her use of emoji | Jan 08 13:13 |
| CrystalMath | Chelsea Manning is another shining angel | Jan 08 13:13 |
| mjg59 | Well sure we're not all millennials | Jan 08 13:13 |
| Ariadne | the difference is chelsea manning is actually an angel | Jan 08 13:13 |
| Ariadne | she is just a great person (who uses emoji excessively) | Jan 08 13:13 |
| Ariadne | assange is an egomanical asshole IRL | Jan 08 13:14 |
| CrystalMath | i'm sure she crossed the street on a red light at least once | Jan 08 13:14 |
| CrystalMath | but that doesn't change the fact that she's a great person | Jan 08 13:14 |
| Ariadne | (this doesn't mean that he deserves to be targeted by the US government for reporting on how fucked up the US government is) | Jan 08 13:15 |
| CrystalMath | i once crossed a highway, that's probably illegal | Jan 08 13:16 |
| CrystalMath | and dangerous as hell | Jan 08 13:16 |
| Ariadne | i have to cross a highway every day to check my mail | Jan 08 13:16 |
| CrystalMath | yeah but i mean | Jan 08 13:16 |
| CrystalMath | outside of town | Jan 08 13:16 |
| Ariadne | admittedly it is only a 2-lane highway | Jan 08 13:16 |
| Ariadne | i don't live in a town | Jan 08 13:16 |
| CrystalMath | and it had those protective barriers on the side | Jan 08 13:17 |
| CrystalMath | but short ones, that can be jumped | Jan 08 13:17 |
| CrystalMath | but ever since i was attacked by those stray dogs, i think twice before i decide to take walks far outside of town | Jan 08 13:18 |
| Ariadne | i live in the middle of nowhere, off Wyoming State Highway 130 | Jan 08 13:19 |
| CrystalMath | interesting | Jan 08 13:19 |
| CrystalMath | i'd like to live in the countryside, it's probably better | Jan 08 13:19 |
| Ariadne | considering i am dependent on Elon Musk for usable internet ... | Jan 08 13:21 |
| Ariadne | it has its pros and cons | Jan 08 13:21 |
| Ariadne | being able to go hiking in the wilderness by just going outside is pretty great tho | Jan 08 13:22 |
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| *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights | Jan 08 13:29 | |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/314747894601240576 seems like an accurate representation of your position here? | Jan 08 13:31 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: @mjg59 When someone is labelled rapist for merely not wearing a condom - or a condom breaking - how does that help rape victims? | Jan 08 13:31 | |
| mjg59 | Given that, well, y'know, you said it | Jan 08 13:34 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: If you want to say that someone who has sex with someone without a condom after saying that they'd wear a condom isn't a rapist then that's certainly a conversation that exists in the wider topic of what consent actually is | Jan 08 13:36 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: But in Sweden it apparently does count as rape, so it arguably then turns into an argument about whether Swedish law is legitimate | Jan 08 13:37 |
| Ariadne | thats why i think it makes more sense to just discuss the womanizing problem in general | Jan 08 13:38 |
| Ariadne | there is also the issue of Sweden pursuing the charges for both women despite at least one of the women responding that they ultimately did not wish to pursue charges | Jan 08 13:39 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: But being hostile to the suggestion that he's a rapist does not do a great job of showing empathy for his alleged victims | Jan 08 13:40 |
| Ariadne | i think the rape charges largely came about as a result of a phishing expedition | Jan 08 13:41 |
| CrystalMath | i still think that there's a possibility that it's a conspiracy | Jan 08 13:41 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: Yeah I'm not a fan of state persecution in principle | Jan 08 13:41 |
| mjg59 | The entire carceral system is fucked up | Jan 08 13:42 |
| Ariadne | at least my understanding is that police interviewed the women about his activities with him, and then decided to slap him with rape charges, despite that not being requested by either woman | Jan 08 13:42 |
| Ariadne | my understanding could be wrong on that, but that's what i've gathered based on following the case | Jan 08 13:42 |
| mjg59 | So | Jan 08 13:43 |
| mjg59 | The vast majority of rape cases are never criminally prosecuted | Jan 08 13:44 |
| mjg59 | And even those that are are mostly not convicted | Jan 08 13:44 |
| Ariadne | yes | Jan 08 13:44 |
| mjg59 | Outside political motiviations, do I think Assange would have been prosecuted? No. | Jan 08 13:44 |
| mjg59 | Based on descriptions of his behaviour, do I think Assange is a rapist? Yes. | Jan 08 13:45 |
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| Ariadne | that's fair | Jan 08 13:45 |
| mjg59 | But the moral here isn't that Assange is innocent, it's that rape isn't prosecuted as much as it should be | Jan 08 13:45 |
| Ariadne | well, it is a question really. at least one of the swedish cases i read into, the alleged victim did not feel she was raped, but that she was miffed about his lack of condom use when he said he was using one | Jan 08 13:46 |
| mjg59 | Studies of US college students on this sort of topic revealed that something like 10% of women thought they'd been raped, but if given a questionaire that described the legal standard then the answers turned out to be closer to 30% | Jan 08 13:48 |
| Ariadne | i guess in the strongest sense, that is still a rape (in the form of a consent violation), but not severe enough a case to make involving police desirable | Jan 08 13:48 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: I think that's an entirely supportable position | Jan 08 13:49 |
| Ariadne | yes, that's an issue too. what the legal system defines as rape is not necessarily what most people think of as rape (a narrower subset) | Jan 08 13:49 |
| Ariadne | thats why i prefer to say 'womanizer', because its something i can back with direct experience and observation | Jan 08 13:53 |
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| Ariadne | when people hear rapist, they assume things that did not happen in the Assange cases | Jan 08 13:54 |
| Ariadne | which is likely why schestowitz is defensive, he likely assumes the same implications | Jan 08 13:54 |
| Ariadne | if it were me (which it wouldn't be me, because (a) i know better and (b) Assange is a transphobe), i wouldn't consider that a rape, but i would be irritated. it would potentially be a relationship-ending event. | Jan 08 13:56 |
| schestowitz | Just finished the video | Jan 08 13:57 |
| schestowitz | almost 50 minutes long | Jan 08 13:57 |
| Ariadne | but i also know better than to talk to police about my sex life should they come to the door asking about my sex life with a wanted person | Jan 08 13:58 |
| Ariadne | then again, i live in the US, and many Europeans are quite naive about the State | Jan 08 13:59 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: Yeah, the idea that rape is violent or involves a stranger is very embedded in social analysis | Jan 08 14:01 |
| mjg59 | But the reality is that most rapes aren't violent and involve someone known to the victim | Jan 08 14:01 |
| Ariadne | thats why i describe Assange's actions as womanizing :) | Jan 08 14:02 |
| mjg59 | So spending time defending people against credible accusations of rape tends to enforce the idea that the second category isn't actually rape | Jan 08 14:02 |
| mjg59 | Even if it's a violation of consent | Jan 08 14:02 |
| Ariadne | womanizing is understood by most people to be the second category, and it still caries social stigma | Jan 08 14:03 |
| mjg59 | So falling asleep with someone and then waking up to find them havng sex with you would, without additional contextual consent, not be ok | Jan 08 14:04 |
| Ariadne | well, that's rape, but that's not what happened with assange | Jan 08 14:04 |
| mjg59 | Yeah, but then we end up talking about what consent is | Jan 08 14:05 |
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| mjg59 | And people can definitely end up on different sides of that line | Jan 08 14:05 |
| Ariadne | for some people, that is actually a fetish | Jan 08 14:06 |
| Ariadne | (waking up to sex, that is) | Jan 08 14:07 |
| mjg59 | But going flat out with the assertion that Assange's behaviour couldn't have been rape is past that line | Jan 08 14:07 |
| Ariadne | that's not *my* position :P | Jan 08 14:08 |
| mjg59 | It depends on what was negotiated between them | Jan 08 14:08 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: Oh gosh no sorry I don't want to imply that | Jan 08 14:08 |
| Ariadne | my position is that assange did fucked up things, but those fucked up things weren't severe enough to warrant involvement of the state | Jan 08 14:08 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Anyway ^ is a nuanced conversation and you should take that into account when talking about Assange | Jan 08 14:09 |
| Ariadne | (this is different than ioerror, who has violently raped people) | Jan 08 14:10 |
| mjg59 | Yup | Jan 08 14:10 |
| Techrights-sec | https://www.vox.com/2021/1/7/22219192/trump-republicans-removal-office-hogan-kinzinger-scott | Jan 08 14:11 |
| Techrights-sec | https://jacobinmag.com/2021/01/capitol-building-storming-far-right-election/ | Jan 08 14:11 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Larry Hogan, Adam Kinzinger have called for Trump’s removal - Vox | Jan 08 14:11 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-jacobinmag.com | The Insurrection Was Predictable | Jan 08 14:11 | |
| mjg59 | Although I don't want to push into that /too/ hard - one of Jake's victims I've spoken to has definitely categorised Assange in the same space | Jan 08 14:11 |
| mjg59 | And I think people could definitely draw a distinction if they wanted | Jan 08 14:11 |
| mjg59 | But given a spectrum, people will draw deliniations in different places | Jan 08 14:12 |
| Ariadne | assange has somewhat of a similar reputation, but i will say that ioerror took things to a larger extreme | Jan 08 14:12 |
| Ariadne | i wouldn't find myself asleep in the same room as either of them | Jan 08 14:13 |
| Ariadne | no way | Jan 08 14:13 |
| Ariadne | assange has other problems, like encouraging people to leak things without making sure they can safely do so | Jan 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: you have met neither in person | Jan 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | you based it on things you read online | Jan 08 14:14 |
| Ariadne | no i base it on years of working in the same communities | Jan 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | you met neither | Jan 08 14:14 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: I'm basing my opinions on people I trust who have met both | Jan 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | [14:14] <Ariadne> assange has other problems, like encouraging people to leak things without making sure they can safely do so | Jan 08 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Corprorate Media talking point | Jan 08 14:15 |
| mjg59 | haha god you are such a piece of shit | Jan 08 14:15 |
| Ariadne | it may be, but its also true | Jan 08 14:15 |
| schestowitz | literally repeating US indictment | Jan 08 14:15 |
| Ariadne | he literally set up chelsea for failure | Jan 08 14:15 |
| schestowitz | Chlesea refutes you on this! | Jan 08 14:15 |
| schestowitz | She repeatedly said Julian did NOT encourage or pressure her to leak more | Jan 08 14:15 |
| schestowitz | no, he did not | Jan 08 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Chelsea did | Jan 08 14:16 |
| schestowitz | by speaking to @6 | Jan 08 14:16 |
| schestowitz | who is now dead BTW | Jan 08 14:16 |
| schestowitz | confessing to a fraud | Jan 08 14:16 |
| schestowitz | who likely worked as undercover mole | Jan 08 14:16 |
| schestowitz | and then Kevin Poulson 'reporting' on it | Jan 08 14:16 |
| mjg59 | Also, notable that you turn up now rather than during the conversation about how you're defending a rapist | Jan 08 14:16 |
| Ariadne | i mean, i literally do work in the same spaces as they do | Jan 08 14:17 |
| mjg59 | But you'd rather turn up to defend that rapist's behaviour in another space | Jan 08 14:17 |
| schestowitz | but you base your views on people whom you never met | Jan 08 14:17 |
| Ariadne | and, actually, i have been to noisebridge and have talked to ioerror | Jan 08 14:17 |
| schestowitz | while weaponised media is directed at both | Jan 08 14:17 |
| mjg59 | Yeah, I've met Jake | Jan 08 14:17 |
| schestowitz | inc. Debian issuing a lie about ioerror | Jan 08 14:17 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Which lie? | Jan 08 14:17 |
| schestowitz | the lie if refuted by leaked emails | Jan 08 14:17 |
| schestowitz | *is | Jan 08 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: when you talked to him did he do or say something perverse? | Jan 08 14:18 |
| schestowitz | I spoke to him too | Jan 08 14:18 |
| schestowitz | didn't sense anything odd | Jan 08 14:18 |
| schestowitz | he linked to techrights numerous times | Jan 08 14:18 |
| mjg59 | I'm literally engaged to someone that Jake raped | Jan 08 14:19 |
| mjg59 | Please do not give me this bullshit | Jan 08 14:19 |
| Ariadne | and to be clear, ioerror did important work too | Jan 08 14:19 |
| mjg59 | He also raped an ex of mine | Jan 08 14:19 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Have you met or spoken to his victims? | Jan 08 14:20 |
| Ariadne | but yes, i know people who decided to sleep in the same bed and had a bad time | Jan 08 14:20 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Are you in a position to discount them? | Jan 08 14:20 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: why share a bed? | Jan 08 14:21 |
| schestowitz | not enough beds? | Jan 08 14:21 |
| schestowitz | poverty? | Jan 08 14:21 |
| mjg59 | Hahahah oh god you're awful | Jan 08 14:21 |
| Ariadne | not engaged to any of them, but "don't share a bed with ioerror" is not exactly a secret in the cypherpunk community | Jan 08 14:21 |
| schestowitz | who shares a bed? | Jan 08 14:22 |
| schestowitz | maybe it's a cultural differences thing | Jan 08 14:22 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Sharing a bed isn't constnt to sex | Jan 08 14:22 |
| schestowitz | you don't just share a bed with a "mate" | Jan 08 14:22 |
| mjg59 | You fucking piece of shit | Jan 08 14:22 |
| schestowitz | even in hotels you can choose a two-bed setep | Jan 08 14:22 |
| schestowitz | they have a special name for that | Jan 08 14:22 |
| mjg59 | Rape apologist | Jan 08 14:22 |
| CrystalMath | in all honesty, i think friends can share a bed and not have sex | Jan 08 14:23 |
| Ariadne | ^ | Jan 08 14:23 |
| CrystalMath | even if the friends have genders such that fits their sexual orientation | Jan 08 14:23 |
| schestowitz | When i was in washington I was in the same room with a colleague, but there were two separate beds | Jan 08 14:23 |
| Ariadne | yes, that's ideal | Jan 08 14:23 |
| Ariadne | but sometimes it doesn't work out that way | Jan 08 14:23 |
| Ariadne | and you have to come up with plan B | Jan 08 14:23 |
| CrystalMath | definitely, although it might not save you from snoring, still :P | Jan 08 14:23 |
| Ariadne | which involves sharing a bed | Jan 08 14:24 |
| Ariadne | hotels for example have more single-bed rooms than double-bed rooms | Jan 08 14:24 |
| mjg59 | I have successfully slept in the same bed as someone without having sex with them | Jan 08 14:24 |
| Ariadne | me too | Jan 08 14:24 |
| schestowitz | The only person of the same gender I shared a bed with was my dad... when I was a little kid and had had a bad dream | Jan 08 14:24 |
| mjg59 | It's not hard! | Jan 08 14:24 |
| mjg59 | You just don't have sex with them! | Jan 08 14:24 |
| schestowitz | take 'twin' room | Jan 08 14:24 |
| schestowitz | problems would be fewer | Jan 08 14:24 |
| mjg59 | Under normal (non-COVID) circumstances I meet many people a day who I don't have sex with! | Jan 08 14:25 |
| schestowitz | btw, jesus shared a bed with man | Jan 08 14:25 |
| schestowitz | but don't tell churchgoers | Jan 08 14:25 |
| mjg59 | What does gender have to do with this? | Jan 08 14:25 |
| CrystalMath | i wouldn't really want to share a bed someone, not with my tendency to cuddle sheets while asleep | Jan 08 14:25 |
| CrystalMath | *with someone | Jan 08 14:25 |
| Ariadne | anyway schestowitz a lot of people working as FOSS developers are actually broke | Jan 08 14:25 |
| schestowitz | take twin setup | Jan 08 14:26 |
| CrystalMath | (i'm asexual and not interested in sex anyway) | Jan 08 14:26 |
| Ariadne | like, the ones writing software that actually matters | Jan 08 14:26 |
| CrystalMath | but still, i cuddle sheets while asleep :/ | Jan 08 14:26 |
| Ariadne | so, this happens a lot | Jan 08 14:26 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: stay in hostels with bunk beds | Jan 08 14:26 |
| schestowitz | cheaper and not shared | Jan 08 14:26 |
| Ariadne | they do that too | Jan 08 14:26 |
| schestowitz | people don't just fall on you at night | Jan 08 14:26 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Stop apologising for rapists | Jan 08 14:26 |
| Ariadne | but, sometimes what happens is | Jan 08 14:26 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Stop implying that their victims are complicit | Jan 08 14:26 |
| Ariadne | "oh, i am coming to give a talk" | Jan 08 14:26 |
| Ariadne | "oh ok you can stay at my place" | Jan 08 14:26 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Sharing a bed with someone isn't consent | Jan 08 14:26 |
| Ariadne | i've literally shared beds with people who got raped by jake | Jan 08 14:27 |
| CrystalMath | what if Appelbaum has sexsomnia though? | Jan 08 14:27 |
| Ariadne | sometimes people get together | Jan 08 14:27 |
| Ariadne | and hack on stuff | Jan 08 14:27 |
| Ariadne | and then they get tired | Jan 08 14:27 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: That's a great reason for them to refuse to share a bed with someone | Jan 08 14:28 |
| CrystalMath | sexsomnia is a real disorder, and he would be totally unaware of it | Jan 08 14:28 |
| CrystalMath | what if he didn't know back then that he does it? | Jan 08 14:28 |
| Ariadne | well | Jan 08 14:28 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: He used that excuse more than once | Jan 08 14:28 |
| Ariadne | ok, i'll say this | Jan 08 14:28 |
| schestowitz | [14:27] <Ariadne> and then they get tired | Jan 08 14:28 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: And using it more than once is an admission of being aware of it | Jan 08 14:28 |
| Ariadne | and it will probably annoy mjg59 a bit | Jan 08 14:28 |
| CrystalMath | really? | Jan 08 14:28 |
| Ariadne | but | Jan 08 14:28 |
| CrystalMath | i didn't know he talked about it at all | Jan 08 14:29 |
| Ariadne | that sphere of my world anyway, uses a lot of molly | Jan 08 14:29 |
| schestowitz | They can take turn, one uses the bed for half a day, then the other | Jan 08 14:29 |
| Ariadne | like literally mdma, techno and hacking out code | Jan 08 14:29 |
| schestowitz | I'd never sleep with someone in the same bed unless in a relatinoship | Jan 08 14:29 |
| schestowitz | beds are not too hard to find | Jan 08 14:29 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: yeah, there's drugs in parts of the scene | Jan 08 14:29 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: I know more than one person he's used that excuse with | Jan 08 14:30 |
| schestowitz | [14:28] <Ariadne> and it will probably annoy mjg59 a bit | Jan 08 14:30 |
| schestowitz | who is this mjg59? | Jan 08 14:30 |
| Ariadne | that said, even fucked up on molly you can still generally conduct yourself without raping someone | Jan 08 14:30 |
| schestowitz | Oh, maybe in my shitbucket | Jan 08 14:30 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: Right? I've spent time with people on mdma who have somehow avoided having sex with me | Jan 08 14:30 |
| Ariadne | hell, mdma is how half of freenode's services implementation got coded | Jan 08 14:31 |
| Ariadne | ^_^ | Jan 08 14:31 |
| mjg59 | Anyway Roy is free to defend a rapist if he wants | Jan 08 14:31 |
| CrystalMath | everyone deserves a defense lawyer | Jan 08 14:31 |
| mjg59 | And people are also free to point out that Roy is defending a rapist | Jan 08 14:32 |
| CrystalMath | so i'm glad that Roy is asking some questions in Jacob's defense, i myself am not sure that Jake is guilty | Jan 08 14:32 |
| Ariadne | oh he's guilty | Jan 08 14:32 |
| mjg59 | And point out that he's got a pattern of defending rapists | Jan 08 14:32 |
| CrystalMath | i'm just glad i'm not a real judge, because this is a tough one, like most cases | Jan 08 14:32 |
| CrystalMath | but i would be really upset if nobody said anything in someone's defense | Jan 08 14:33 |
| CrystalMath | there's no cut and dry case | Jan 08 14:33 |
| mjg59 | I'm fine with a criminal defence! | Jan 08 14:33 |
| CrystalMath | many of the people that accused Jake were in fact in a relationship with him, for example (but not all as far as i know) | Jan 08 14:33 |
| CrystalMath | the court of public opinion is still a court that has consequences, and defense is needed there too | Jan 08 14:34 |
| Ariadne | yeah, that is not a relationship as you might think | Jan 08 14:34 |
| Ariadne | fwiw i don't think jake's intentions were necessarily malicious | Jan 08 14:34 |
| Ariadne | what i do think is that he has raped some people | Jan 08 14:35 |
| CrystalMath | idk, rape sounds like a very malicious act, usually very selfish, i don't believe in benevolent rape | Jan 08 14:35 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: Of the victims of Jake I know, one was in a relationship with him. He raped her anyway. | Jan 08 14:35 |
| Ariadne | i know of a few cases where it was polycule-related issues | Jan 08 14:36 |
| Ariadne | and i know of a few cases where everyone was fucked up on molly | Jan 08 14:36 |
| Ariadne | still rape though | Jan 08 14:36 |
| CrystalMath | but how can you be sure? | Jan 08 14:37 |
| Ariadne | some advice to prodigal hackers: keep your dick in your pants when the molly comes out | Jan 08 14:37 |
| CrystalMath | maybe drugs make people misremember things | Jan 08 14:37 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: If someone tells you to stop having sex with them, and you continue having sex with them, that's rape | Jan 08 14:37 |
| Ariadne | which is probably why you shouldn't do anything that could be misremembered | Jan 08 14:37 |
| CrystalMath | mjg59: indeed | Jan 08 14:37 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: then never do anything ever, because everything can be misremembered | Jan 08 14:37 |
| Ariadne | you know what i mean | Jan 08 14:38 |
| CrystalMath | yeah but that's too wide of a definition for guilt | Jan 08 14:38 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: And that's what's described in https://hypatia.ca/2016/06/07/he-said-they-said/ | Jan 08 14:38 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-hypatia.ca | He said, they said – hypatia dot ca | Jan 08 14:38 | |
| CrystalMath | if you just believe victims every time, you can put innocent people in a lot of trouble | Jan 08 14:39 |
| CrystalMath | so that's not the right way IMO | Jan 08 14:40 |
| CrystalMath | i believe in innocent until proven guilty, and "better let 999 criminals go free than hurt one innocent" | Jan 08 14:40 |
| Ariadne | you believe victims until you either prove or disprove their assertions | Jan 08 14:40 |
| Ariadne | believing victims does not mean you don't fact check them | Jan 08 14:40 |
| CrystalMath | but that would be an assumption of guilt on the part of the accused | Jan 08 14:40 |
| Ariadne | the "believing victims" issue is that victims go to police and police send the complaint to /dev/null | Jan 08 14:41 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: Ok so the Swedish government is innocent of improperly accusing Assange | Jan 08 14:41 |
| Ariadne | without even investigating | Jan 08 14:41 |
| CrystalMath | mjg59: yes, in a way, we have no proof of the conspiracy | Jan 08 14:41 |
| CrystalMath | we just have a hunch | Jan 08 14:41 |
| Ariadne | i should also say that particular scene | Jan 08 14:41 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: that's really crappy, but when we fix it, we should fix it to make it fair, not unfair in the other direction | Jan 08 14:41 |
| Ariadne | is well | Jan 08 14:41 |
| Ariadne | a lot of people are more than friends in that scene | Jan 08 14:42 |
| Ariadne | however, they do generally make their boundaries known | Jan 08 14:42 |
| Ariadne | like basically everything involving jake is a giant mess | Jan 08 14:43 |
| Ariadne | with that said | Jan 08 14:43 |
| Ariadne | if somebody says "stop" then you should stop | Jan 08 14:43 |
| CrystalMath | honestly, i know people who did not press charges on someone just because society is very harsh towards criminals | Jan 08 14:43 |
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| mjg59 | CrystalMath: Yup, which is why many of Jake's victims haven't taken it to court | Jan 08 14:43 |
| CrystalMath | (but in all honesty... sweden is not) | Jan 08 14:43 |
| Ariadne | and Jake is hardly the only prson in that scene who is like that | Jan 08 14:44 |
| mjg59 | Anarchists tend to not be enthusiastic about weaponising the state against someone | Jan 08 14:44 |
| Ariadne | i can think of several others who would fall on my "never share a bed with" list from that scene | Jan 08 14:44 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Anyway I'm sure you'll read this when you process the logs, so just to emphasise you're ignoring multiple people telling you who the people you're defending really are | Jan 08 14:45 |
| Ariadne | but i've slept in the same bed with plenty of other FOSS people from that scene and nothing has ever happened | Jan 08 14:45 |
| Ariadne | also, when i was in SF bay doing things, i had a much different appearance | Jan 08 14:46 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: And in the process you're blaming victims on the grounds that if they were innocent they'd have made sure there was an extra bed? | Jan 08 14:46 |
| Ariadne | so Jake not hitting on me means nothing | Jan 08 14:46 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: Jake is bisexual | Jan 08 14:46 |
| Ariadne | if I talked to Jake with my current looks, he would have hit on me | Jan 08 14:46 |
| Ariadne | CrystalMath: yes | Jan 08 14:46 |
| Ariadne | but, he has certain types | Jan 08 14:47 |
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| mjg59 | schestowitz: So anyway you are obviously free to present a timeline of Assange's behaviour that elides various details, but you are clearly aware that you are doing so with an agenda | Jan 08 14:47 |
| Ariadne | and at the time that i was in SF bay, i was very convinced that a UNIX beard was the path to career success | Jan 08 14:48 |
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| *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights | Jan 08 14:48 | |
| Ariadne | (what was i thinking? i have no idea) | Jan 08 14:48 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: tbf my job interviews with beards have been more successful than the ones without | Jan 08 14:49 |
| Ariadne | i guess what i am trying to say is Jake liks twinks | Jan 08 14:49 |
| Ariadne | (: | Jan 08 14:49 |
| CrystalMath | oh i see | Jan 08 14:49 |
| mjg59 | (I shave afterwards) | Jan 08 14:49 |
| mjg59 | Yeah Jake may be bi but he skews femme in terms of partner | Jan 08 14:50 |
| Ariadne | . o O (i await schestowitz telling me i found out about Jake's twink preference in corporate media) | Jan 08 14:50 |
| Ariadne | from 2008 to 2011 i was pretty much not-femme | Jan 08 14:51 |
| CrystalMath | i had short hair until 2015 | Jan 08 14:53 |
| Ariadne | i did not | Jan 08 14:53 |
| CrystalMath | though it was still sort of short until 2017 | Jan 08 14:53 |
| CrystalMath | but, there's one constant, i always have bangs | Jan 08 14:54 |
| CrystalMath | they're my signature, in a way | Jan 08 14:54 |
| Ariadne | mjg59: well, the beard was successful in that regard considering i didn't starve to death or die of dissentery out there :P | Jan 08 14:54 |
| mjg59 | @zoobab | Jan 08 14:56 |
| mjg59 | ? | Jan 08 14:56 |
| mjg59 | Hmm new laptop's middle mouse button does not seem perfect | Jan 08 14:57 |
| *rianne (~rianne@host81-152-238-156.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Jan 08 14:58 | |
| Ariadne | tbh i kind of miss things a decade ago | Jan 08 15:01 |
| Ariadne | hacking on code then being in a giant cuddle pile of cuddles was pretty great tbh | Jan 08 15:02 |
| mjg59 | Ariadne: If you were in the bay area scene around then, do you know Andy Isaacson? | Jan 08 15:03 |
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| Ariadne | can't say i do | Jan 08 15:04 |
| mjg59 | Ah, guess I met him in 2010, so may be a bit after that | Jan 08 15:05 |
| Ariadne | though my particular hack on things plus cuddle pile of cuddles experience was outside the bay | Jan 08 15:06 |
| mjg59 | Fair | Jan 08 15:06 |
| Ariadne | that was back and forth between boston and cologne | Jan 08 15:06 |
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| Ariadne | also in fairness, i don't think anyone wanted to crash jake's career or anything like that | Jan 08 15:08 |
| Ariadne | i think they just you know | Jan 08 15:08 |
| Ariadne | wanted him to stop being obtuse | Jan 08 15:08 |
| Ariadne | the website was meant to be an intervention | Jan 08 15:09 |
| Ariadne | the idea being "gosh, there's all these people saying i've done fucked up things to them, maybe i should fix that" | Jan 08 15:10 |
| Ariadne | well | Jan 08 15:10 |
| Ariadne | i should clarify that | Jan 08 15:11 |
| Ariadne | the person who contacted Tor HR obviously wanted something to happen there | Jan 08 15:11 |
| mjg59 | Yeah there's a universe where Jake took responsibility for his actions and engaged in community-level reparations | Jan 08 15:11 |
| mjg59 | He, uh, chose otherwise | Jan 08 15:11 |
| CrystalMath | then what was up with that ridiculous story that was later retracted by its author? | Jan 08 15:11 |
| CrystalMath | if it's meant to be an intervention, why was there a false story there? | Jan 08 15:12 |
| CrystalMath | oh wait a minute i think Ariadne explained that | Jan 08 15:12 |
| CrystalMath | last time we had this discussion | Jan 08 15:12 |
| Ariadne | some stories on there were intentionally fabricated in order to provide cover for everyone involved including jake, yes | Jan 08 15:12 |
| CrystalMath | right | Jan 08 15:13 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Re: http://techrights.org/2021/01/07/democracy-and-tyrants/ - https://fsfe.org/news/2017/news-20170425-01.en.html clearly shows Pocock being elected to the Fellowship GA seat | Jan 08 15:13 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Technology, Citizenship, Democracy and Tyrants | Techrights | Jan 08 15:13 | |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fsfe.org | And the winner of the election for FSFE's Fellowship GA seat is ... - FSFE | Jan 08 15:13 | |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: well, your version of the events seems to check out | Jan 08 15:13 |
| CrystalMath | it all fits | Jan 08 15:13 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: The claim that Florian Snow was appointed despite the vote is clearly false - there's an 8 month space between the results being published and the mail Pocock cites | Jan 08 15:14 |
| Ariadne | anyway the, for lack of better description, PLUR scene in FOSS is kinda dying out | Jan 08 15:14 |
| CrystalMath | PLUR? | Jan 08 15:15 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: You should engage in some degree of fact checking of stories you publish | Jan 08 15:15 |
| Ariadne | CrystalMath: the people who do molly and hack on shit | Jan 08 15:15 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: ah, yeah, like the 90s hacker culture died | Jan 08 15:15 |
| schestowitz | what is molly short for? | Jan 08 15:15 |
| CrystalMath | MDMA | Jan 08 15:15 |
| schestowitz | molestation? | Jan 08 15:15 |
| *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Jan 08 15:15 | |
| CrystalMath | no | Jan 08 15:15 |
| Ariadne | MDMA yes | Jan 08 15:15 |
| CrystalMath | it's methylenedioxymethamphetamine | Jan 08 15:15 |
| schestowitz | what's that? | Jan 08 15:16 |
| schestowitz | ah, ok | Jan 08 15:16 |
| CrystalMath | a molecule | Jan 08 15:16 |
| schestowitz | some full name of rhe drug | Jan 08 15:16 |
| mjg59 | Haha you fucking idiot | Jan 08 15:16 |
| Ariadne | a molecule which makes most people extremely happy | Jan 08 15:16 |
| mjg59 | How are you so completely unaware of everything | Jan 08 15:16 |
| schestowitz | I did not see the words molly and MSMA before | Jan 08 15:16 |
| schestowitz | methylenedioxymethamphetamine - yes | Jan 08 15:16 |
| mjg59 | ... | Jan 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz | but not the first two | Jan 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz | I never did drugs | Jan 08 15:17 |
| Ariadne | bruh | Jan 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz | nor will I | Jan 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz | alcohol yes. but not much... | Jan 08 15:17 |
| mjg59 | Dude I've never done molly but | Jan 08 15:17 |
| MinceR | https://www.sickchirpse.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Coke-With-Molly.jpg | Jan 08 15:17 |
| Ariadne | how do you think the whole GNU project got going | Jan 08 15:17 |
| mjg59 | (As previously mentioned I am extremely feeble) | Jan 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz | anyway, not on topic | Jan 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz | I'd rather talk about tech tbh | Jan 08 15:17 |
| schestowitz | the channel is called techrights | Jan 08 15:17 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Except you keep ignoring my contributions | Jan 08 15:18 |
| CrystalMath | MinceR: coke with molly? is that a picture of some girl named Molly drinking Coca Cola? :P </innocence> | Jan 08 15:18 |
| MinceR | this is the first time i see MDMA referred to as a performance-enhancing drug, though :> | Jan 08 15:18 |
| MinceR | CrystalMath: of course, what else could it be? :> | Jan 08 15:18 |
| schestowitz | performance has many facets | Jan 08 15:18 |
| Ariadne | well i hate to inform you but most of the free software you use today came out of a scene of hippies who also wrote code | Jan 08 15:18 |
| schestowitz | maybe it's better when you would otherwise perform homicide | Jan 08 15:18 |
| Ariadne | RMS being a hippie who also writes code | Jan 08 15:19 |
| schestowitz | or suicide | Jan 08 15:19 |
| MinceR | afaik MDMA is not the only drug used by hippies, though | Jan 08 15:19 |
| mjg59 | Luv 2 straight edge freedom | Jan 08 15:19 |
| Ariadne | RMS literally folkdances, you know | Jan 08 15:19 |
| Ariadne | like, my grandparents know him from folkdancing, it is pretty wild | Jan 08 15:19 |
| MinceR | :) | Jan 08 15:19 |
| Ariadne | MinceR: indeed not | Jan 08 15:20 |
| mjg59 | RMS once trolled ESR by convincing him that there was going to be an orgy in his hotel room | Jan 08 15:20 |
| mjg59 | And ESR just showed up in a bathrobe | Jan 08 15:20 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 08 15:20 |
| CrystalMath | lol | Jan 08 15:20 |
| mjg59 | There's no puritantical aspect to this community | Jan 08 15:20 |
| mjg59 | Never has been | Jan 08 15:21 |
| Ariadne | yeah well, nobody wants to fuck ESR | Jan 08 15:21 |
| mjg59 | Well you say that | Jan 08 15:21 |
| mjg59 | And I'd love to believe it | Jan 08 15:21 |
| mjg59 | But evidence suggests it's not entirely true | Jan 08 15:21 |
| schestowitz | why are we talking about sex here | Jan 08 15:21 |
| schestowitz | [12:28] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- Factbox: Who is Julian Assange? | Reuters | Jan 08 15:22 |
| schestowitz | I pasted this link | Jan 08 15:22 |
| schestowitz | sent from a reader | Jan 08 15:22 |
| schestowitz | and the sex-minded maniac from Google warped the topic | Jan 08 15:22 |
| Ariadne | sex, drugs and software freedom | Jan 08 15:22 |
| schestowitz | someone has nothing but sex in the head | Jan 08 15:22 |
| mjg59 | Dude I didn't bring up sex | Jan 08 15:22 |
| mjg59 | But free software involves a bunch of fucking | Jan 08 15:22 |
| mjg59 | (consensually) | Jan 08 15:23 |
| schestowitz | maybe I should report to Google | Jan 08 15:23 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz: we were discussing the background that lead up to ioerror's (and to a lesser extent, Assange's) accusations of whatever you wanna call it | Jan 08 15:23 |
| schestowitz | they have issues with perverts | Jan 08 15:23 |
| schestowitz | they hire some | Jan 08 15:23 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: I mean go for it | Jan 08 15:23 |
| Ariadne | mjg59 seems straighter edge than other googlers i know | Jan 08 15:23 |
| Ariadne | not that i know mjg59 mind you | Jan 08 15:23 |
| mjg59 | schestowitz: Do feel free to report me to Sundar | Jan 08 15:24 |
| schestowitz | https://gawker.com/5637234/gcreep-google-engineer-stalked-teens-spied-on-chats | Jan 08 15:24 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-gawker.com | GCreep: Google Engineer Stalked Teens, Spied on Chats (Updated) | Jan 08 15:24 | |
| schestowitz | stick to topic | Jan 08 15:24 |
| mjg59 | Yeah I'm part of the team that prevents that from happening again | Jan 08 15:25 |
| schestowitz | this is not sexrights | Jan 08 15:25 |
| schestowitz | Look at channel topic | Jan 08 15:25 |
| schestowitz | stick to topic | Jan 08 15:25 |
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| mjg59 | Free software is tightly associated with sexual liberation | Jan 08 15:25 |
| *psydroid sets the topic of the channel to sexrights, the place where techrights go to die | Jan 08 15:25 | |
| CrystalMath | should i register #sexrights? | Jan 08 15:25 |
| mjg59 | Both historically and philisophically | Jan 08 15:25 |
| mjg59 | Both are bound to personal autonomy | Jan 08 15:25 |
| schestowitz | CrystalMath: feel free | Jan 08 15:26 |
| schestowitz | I would not dive into it | Jan 08 15:26 |
| mjg59 | You can't build a world where one exists without the other | Jan 08 15:26 |
| Ariadne | don't tell him about ESR's uhhh, private channel here on freenode | Jan 08 15:26 |
| schestowitz | sex has nothing to do with tech | Jan 08 15:26 |
| schestowitz | gender hasn't , either | Jan 08 15:26 |
| Ariadne | it has a lot to do honestly | Jan 08 15:26 |
| mjg59 | Sex has a *lot* to do with tech | Jan 08 15:26 |
| schestowitz | tech has much to do with human rights | Jan 08 15:26 |
| schestowitz | sex is a reproductive function | Jan 08 15:26 |
| mjg59 | Oh man you're missing out | Jan 08 15:26 |
| schestowitz | even animals without tech have sex | Jan 08 15:26 |
| Ariadne | a lot of the software you use today was coded during cuddlefuck parties at FOSDEM | Jan 08 15:26 |
| schestowitz | leave sex to sex channels | Jan 08 15:26 |
| Ariadne | i guarantee you | Jan 08 15:26 |
| mjg59 | Do you realise you can have sex without reproducing | Jan 08 15:27 |
| schestowitz | and stop wasting our time | Jan 08 15:27 |
| schestowitz | I brought up Assanghe | Jan 08 15:27 |
| CrystalMath | i'm asexual actually, but i find the idea of #sexrights kinda funny | Jan 08 15:27 |
| schestowitz | because of journalism and war crimes | Jan 08 15:27 |
| schestowitz | also online publication | Jan 08 15:27 |
| schestowitz | people who make it about sex should crawl back up the cave they came from | Jan 08 15:27 |
| mjg59 | Yeah we should just ignore the rape stuff | Jan 08 15:27 |
| *schestowitz back to posting and writing | Jan 08 15:28 | |
| mjg59 | There's something actually wrong with you | Jan 08 15:28 |
| CrystalMath | well, maybe there is merit to the idea of focusing only on one thing, to not get spread too thin | Jan 08 15:30 |
| schestowitz | I am writing about FSF at the moment | Jan 08 15:30 |
| schestowitz | and the donation drive | Jan 08 15:30 |
| schestowitz | i need to focus on one thing at a time | Jan 08 15:30 |
| schestowitz | I think we attarcted some sick people here | Jan 08 15:30 |
| schestowitz | whose mind is all fixed on sexual fantasies | Jan 08 15:30 |
| schestowitz | affixed | Jan 08 15:31 |
| schestowitz | they can go to pervy places | Jan 08 15:31 |
| schestowitz | I want to focus on tech | Jan 08 15:31 |
| schestowitz | I never even talk about sex online | Jan 08 15:31 |
| CrystalMath | #sexrights is open, i set the topic to "TechRights Gone Wild" :P | Jan 08 15:31 |
| *psydroid should seize the grape.com domain and redirect it to rape.google.com | Jan 08 15:31 | |
| Ariadne | man wait until he finds out that like half of foss developers are also furries | Jan 08 15:31 |
| CrystalMath | why is that so funny to me | Jan 08 15:31 |
| schestowitz | go for it if you want, CrystalMath, maybe Ivanka and dad will join | Jan 08 15:32 |
| schestowitz | "the right to touch my daughter" | Jan 08 15:32 |
| CrystalMath | sorry schestowitz, i didn't mean to make fun of techrights | Jan 08 15:32 |
| CrystalMath | i just thought that what you said was kinda funny | Jan 08 15:32 |
| schestowitz | psydroid: Google employs nany perverts | Jan 08 15:32 |
| schestowitz | I can think, OFFHAND, of a dozen incidents | Jan 08 15:33 |
| schestowitz | I gave only one | Jan 08 15:33 |
| CrystalMath | #sexrights is gone | Jan 08 15:33 |
| schestowitz | So it makes Google to hire more perverts | Jan 08 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft and Gates have a similar issue | Jan 08 15:33 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: what's a furry? | Jan 08 15:33 |
| schestowitz | a pervert is unable to see another pervert as a pervert | Jan 08 15:33 |
| schestowitz | like a corrupt mafioso, e.g. trump, cannot see what blackwater mercenaries did wrong | Jan 08 15:34 |
| schestowitz | they just butchered a bunch of kids, big f'ing deal... | Jan 08 15:34 |
| MinceR | lol @ sexrights | Jan 08 15:34 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: People who identify with anthrophormised animals | Jan 08 15:34 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: Not inherently sexual, but frequently | Jan 08 15:35 |
| CrystalMath | mjg59: i know, i was feigning innocence | Jan 08 15:35 |
| CrystalMath | i know a few furries even, on IRC | Jan 08 15:35 |
| mjg59 | CrystalMath: Well gosh it's hard to know, apparently we're not supposed to know about sex in here | Jan 08 15:35 |
| psydroid | schestowitz: I think a series of articles on Google's internal practices would be great in the more distant future, although a lot has become clear in other articles posted so far | Jan 08 15:35 |
| schestowitz | a person who does Free software to get laid will view everyone around as a bunch of sex partyists | Jan 08 15:36 |
| schestowitz | I feel bad for such people | Jan 08 15:36 |
| mjg59 | Welp better write off rms | Jan 08 15:36 |
| schestowitz | RMS started GNU not because of sex | Jan 08 15:36 |
| schestowitz | he likes hacking code | Jan 08 15:36 |
| *mjg59 says nothing | Jan 08 15:37 | |
| schestowitz | I always loved computers, so I was happy to be able to program things to run on them and see what happens, or change codes, or read manuals. IIRC, Torvalds told a similar story in his Bloomber interview | Jan 08 15:38 |
| schestowitz | again, this seems to be a common thing | Jan 08 15:38 |
| schestowitz | people learn to love code | Jan 08 15:38 |
| schestowitz | there will always be outliers | Jan 08 15:38 |
| vZS1_2 | schestowitz: you need to filter out the junk. Trolls are diverting your time away from TR into nonsense. | Jan 08 15:38 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz: i do free software to produce free software, but free software has (and continues to) gotten me laid | Jan 08 15:38 |
| mjg59 | But yeah I can understand why someone who has a fundamentally fucked up sense of what sexual relationships actually are would have trouble figuring out why Jake or Assange had behaved poorly | Jan 08 15:38 |
| schestowitz | like people who enter politics for impunity while doing some horrible things | Jan 08 15:38 |
| schestowitz | I reckon Trump is an example of it | Jan 08 15:38 |
| schestowitz | he was likely broke (hidden debt) when running for Pres. in 2015/2016 and weaponised racism to rescue himself | Jan 08 15:39 |
| schestowitz | not unprecedented a move in other countries | Jan 08 15:39 |
| schestowitz | vZS1_2: yes, I wasted time on this | Jan 08 15:40 |
| schestowitz | maybe that is the very GOAL | Jan 08 15:40 |
| schestowitz | I could write tons more | Jan 08 15:40 |
| Ariadne | torvalds, yes | Jan 08 15:40 |
| Ariadne | RMS/GNU, no | Jan 08 15:40 |
| Ariadne | well | Jan 08 15:40 |
| schestowitz | anyone wanna help me proofread? | Jan 08 15:40 |
| schestowitz | I'm trying to get people to join the FSF | Jan 08 15:40 |
| MinceR | what for? | Jan 08 15:41 |
| schestowitz | GNU funding | Jan 08 15:41 |
| Ariadne | what is even the point | Jan 08 15:41 |
| schestowitz | their infrastructure\ | Jan 08 15:41 |
| Ariadne | half the GNU projects are using github anymore | Jan 08 15:41 |
| mjg59 | Linus is in a happy monogamous relationship with three kids | Jan 08 15:41 |
| MinceR | what's the point of funding GNU? | Jan 08 15:41 |
| MinceR | it's pretty much dead already | Jan 08 15:41 |
| Ariadne | yeah fund systemd instead | Jan 08 15:41 |
| MinceR | what for? | Jan 08 15:42 |
| MinceR | ibm is funding it already | Jan 08 15:42 |
| mjg59 | RMS fucks about a great deal more than Linux does | Jan 08 15:42 |
| mjg59 | Er ha oops Linus | Jan 08 15:42 |
| MinceR | microshit and ibm took over the whole thing, let them fund it | Jan 08 15:42 |
| schestowitz | FSF? | Jan 08 15:42 |
| schestowitz | Not FSF | Jan 08 15:42 |
| schestowitz | OSI, yes | Jan 08 15:42 |
| schestowitz | I mention why OSI is money down the drain | Jan 08 15:43 |
| schestowitz | LF is still open for donations LOL | Jan 08 15:43 |
| schestowitz | what a scam | Jan 08 15:43 |
| schestowitz | [15:41] <Ariadne> half the GNU projects are using github anymore | Jan 08 15:43 |
| schestowitz | No, we counted | Jan 08 15:43 |
| schestowitz | less than a dozen | Jan 08 15:43 |
| schestowitz | out of hundeds | Jan 08 15:43 |
| schestowitz | and we want to keep that number small | Jan 08 15:44 |
| MinceR | afaik the FSF was taken over by crybullies | Jan 08 15:44 |
| schestowitz | FSF is working on gitlab-based alternative (to GH and Savannah) | Jan 08 15:44 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: not anymore | Jan 08 15:44 |
| schestowitz | I go through the list | Jan 08 15:44 |
| schestowitz | they're ousted mostly | Jan 08 15:44 |
| MinceR | so, is RMS back yet? | Jan 08 15:44 |
| schestowitz | sort of | Jan 08 15:44 |
| schestowitz | gradually | Jan 08 15:44 |
| schestowitz | wanna read? | Jan 08 15:44 |
| schestowitz | I need to fish typos out | Jan 08 15:44 |
| Ariadne | schestowitz: coreutils is using it | Jan 08 15:44 |
| MinceR | yes | Jan 08 15:44 |
| schestowitz | I lost 2 hours due this this whole sexrighrs BS | Jan 08 15:45 |
| schestowitz | and rianne was reading it more than I did | Jan 08 15:45 |
| schestowitz | she didn't put a block/ignore on he creep | Jan 08 15:45 |
| schestowitz | *the | Jan 08 15:45 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 08 15:45 |
| schestowitz | http://techrights.org/2021/01/08/supporting-the-fsf/ | Jan 08 15:47 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Support GNU by Supporting the FSF in 2021 (10 Days Left for the Latest Campaign to Join) | Techrights | Jan 08 15:47 | |
| schestowitz | I am checking it no | Jan 08 15:47 |
| schestowitz | the video is still uploading | Jan 08 15:47 |
| schestowitz | 10mb-20mb per hour yay | Jan 08 15:47 |
| schestowitz | bloody telecom | Jan 08 15:47 |
| Ariadne | hey i'm just being honest | Jan 08 15:47 |
| Ariadne | hackathons create relationships all the time, that's part of how you get close-knit communities | Jan 08 15:48 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: right but maybe you're kinda exaggerating it... i mean many projects never had such things | Jan 08 15:49 |
| Ariadne | i'm really not | Jan 08 15:49 |
| CrystalMath | there are projects where nearly everyone involved is a straight white male | Jan 08 15:49 |
| Ariadne | yeah those projects suck | Jan 08 15:50 |
| mjg59 | And there are projects that aren't | Jan 08 15:50 |
| Ariadne | and die out | Jan 08 15:50 |
| Ariadne | or become the next systemd component | Jan 08 15:50 |
| mjg59 | Anyone who believes there's no sex in free software is missing out | Jan 08 15:50 |
| CrystalMath | i'm not missing out, i don't want to have sex at all | Jan 08 15:50 |
| Ariadne | valid | Jan 08 15:51 |
| mjg59 | Yeah that was sloppily phrased on my part | Jan 08 15:51 |
| mjg59 | Apologies | Jan 08 15:51 |
| mjg59 | But at a fundamental level, the idea that there's no association between progessive approaches to "IP" and software and progressive approaches to other aspects of society is native | Jan 08 15:52 |
| mjg59 | s/native/naive/ | Jan 08 15:52 |
| MinceR | (cat) (audio:unimportant) https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2020/11/18/1c1f343f4704f121.mp4 | Jan 08 15:53 |
| psydroid | schestowitz, "both of which were created" (add "were"), "introduced to programming" (instead of "programmer") | Jan 08 15:55 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: i think lots of great projects were written sexlessly, like linux i think, and FVWM | Jan 08 15:55 |
| CrystalMath | i can't really vouch for either, though | Jan 08 15:56 |
| psydroid | ah, I see you've already fixed the latter | Jan 08 15:56 |
| Ariadne | there's a lot of promiscuous kernel developers :P | Jan 08 15:57 |
| Ariadne | or at least were some time ago | Jan 08 15:57 |
| schestowitz | psydroid: thanks, fixed | Jan 08 15:57 |
| Ariadne | i don't really follow the kernel anymore | Jan 08 15:57 |
| Ariadne | its very big now | Jan 08 15:57 |
| CrystalMath | the free software i use the most is linux, ksh93, fvwm, urxvt, and emacs | Jan 08 15:58 |
| schestowitz | I find it super-ironic | Jan 08 15:58 |
| CrystalMath | and X.org | Jan 08 15:58 |
| schestowitz | for no reason I'm being smeared as sexual something | Jan 08 15:58 |
| Ariadne | but linux itself has largely been corporate | Jan 08 15:58 |
| schestowitz | by people who say FOSS is all about sex | Jan 08 15:58 |
| Ariadne | nobody said FOSS was all about sex | Jan 08 15:58 |
| MinceR | Linux was non-corporate back when it was good | Jan 08 15:58 |
| Ariadne | just that there is some intersectionality between non-corporate FOSS and sex | Jan 08 15:59 |
| Ariadne | that's real "hacker culture" | Jan 08 15:59 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: i think there could have been some sex involved in the creation of emacs | Jan 08 15:59 |
| *abarr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) | Jan 08 15:59 | |
| MinceR | genetic programming! | Jan 08 15:59 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: but the rest? doubtful, urxvt is a single person project (Schmorp), fvwm people are super square and old, ksh93 was made by AT&T | Jan 08 15:59 |
| Ariadne | obviously corporate FOSS is a totally different thing | Jan 08 15:59 |
| Ariadne | Schmorp is a furry | Jan 08 16:00 |
| Ariadne | anyway this has been a fascinating conversation that started from the question of "why would two hackers share a bed" | Jan 08 16:01 |
| CrystalMath | heh | Jan 08 16:02 |
| schestowitz | [15:59] <Ariadne> obviously corporate FOSS | Jan 08 16:02 |
| schestowitz | paradox | Jan 08 16:02 |
| schestowitz | corporations can use FS | Jan 08 16:02 |
| CrystalMath | sometimes they make it too | Jan 08 16:02 |
| schestowitz | but if the FS itself is corporate, then, you know... | Jan 08 16:02 |
| Ariadne | what i mean there is that corporate FS doesn't have the same cultural values that RMS had when he kicked this thing off | Jan 08 16:03 |
| MinceR | even RMS doesn't have the same cultural values that RMS had when he kicked this thing off | Jan 08 16:03 |
| schestowitz | that can lead to issues | Jan 08 16:03 |
| MinceR | sadly | Jan 08 16:03 |
| schestowitz | he does | Jan 08 16:03 |
| schestowitz | he is pressured | Jan 08 16:03 |
| schestowitz | to conform | Jan 08 16:04 |
| MinceR | he would have started a campaign against systemd if he did | Jan 08 16:04 |
| Ariadne | most likely he has never had to debug systemd and thus does not see the problm | Jan 08 16:04 |
| schestowitz | he knows those issues, MinceR | Jan 08 16:04 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 08 16:04 |
| schestowitz | but red hat and ibm gave him money | Jan 08 16:04 |
| schestowitz | also a company that employs sexual predators | Jan 08 16:05 |
| schestowitz | FSF has not been funded by that sleaze for 5 years though | Jan 08 16:05 |
| schestowitz | FSFE still is | Jan 08 16:05 |
| Ariadne | anyway, last time i checked, RMS is still a barefoot, folkdancing, Pan-following person | Jan 08 16:05 |
| Ariadne | which is pretty cool | Jan 08 16:05 |
| schestowitz | almost 20% of its budget for a long time now | Jan 08 16:05 |
| Ariadne | mad respect honestly | Jan 08 16:05 |
| Ariadne | wish he had phrased his defense of minsky better | Jan 08 16:05 |
| schestowitz | RMS is acting all normal when I meet him | Jan 08 16:05 |
| schestowitz | coat, shoes, bag | Jan 08 16:05 |
| schestowitz | he uses backpack, very practical | Jan 08 16:06 |
| schestowitz | and uses UK rail to travel | Jan 08 16:06 |
| Ariadne | yeah i mean he does that too | Jan 08 16:06 |
| schestowitz | some people wear bathrobes at home | Jan 08 16:06 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: i miss the 90s hacker culture | Jan 08 16:06 |
| schestowitz | and suits to work | Jan 08 16:06 |
| schestowitz | RMS can change outfit | Jan 08 16:06 |
| schestowitz | in Latin America he'd speak Spanish | Jan 08 16:06 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: not so much the late 2000s/2010s one | Jan 08 16:07 |
| schestowitz | anyway, enough about the person | Jan 08 16:07 |
| Ariadne | i'm sorry, do you think i am criticising RMS? | Jan 08 16:07 |
| schestowitz | [16:02] <schestowitz> but if the FS itself is corporate, then, you know... | Jan 08 16:07 |
| schestowitz | the issue was, FSF | Jan 08 16:07 |
| schestowitz | and FS | Jan 08 16:07 |
| schestowitz | with corporatism | Jan 08 16:07 |
| schestowitz | and I think a members-funded FSF would be better off | Jan 08 16:07 |
| schestowitz | like the green party USA | Jan 08 16:07 |
| schestowitz | no need to be big | Jan 08 16:07 |
| schestowitz | just don't get corrupted | Jan 08 16:07 |
| Ariadne | ok, when FSF decides to stop taking corporate donations, i'll consider giving them money | Jan 08 16:08 |
| schestowitz | techrights is not big, but we never took any bribes | Jan 08 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: yes, those "patrons" are a problem | Jan 08 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Google spies on those members to monetise them | Jan 08 16:08 |
| schestowitz | and then gives a share of that money to FSF, in exchange for silence | Jan 08 16:08 |
| schestowitz | so FSF rarely berates Google | Jan 08 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Google is just one example | Jan 08 16:08 |
| Ariadne | in the meantime, my $$$ can be used to produce better and more FOSS | Jan 08 16:09 |
| schestowitz | IBM/Red Hat and systemd is another | Jan 08 16:09 |
| schestowitz | they can lose 1-2 members of staff is Red Rat stops paying | Jan 08 16:09 |
| Ariadne | glibc is an engineering disaster at this point | Jan 08 16:09 |
| schestowitz | *if | Jan 08 16:09 |
| Ariadne | as is much of the rest of GNU | Jan 08 16:09 |
| schestowitz | Ariadne: yes, pay rent and buy food | Jan 08 16:09 |
| schestowitz | that's what I do | Jan 08 16:09 |
| schestowitz | I can write more code and words | Jan 08 16:09 |
| Ariadne | we didn't start alpine because we hate GNU, we started it because we needed something better | Jan 08 16:09 |
| schestowitz | we only donate to the blind and to animal trusts | Jan 08 16:09 |
| schestowitz | I bought 20 teats for orphaned elephants yesterday | Jan 08 16:10 |
| schestowitz | alpine is good | Jan 08 16:10 |
| schestowitz | apline has gnu too | Jan 08 16:10 |
| schestowitz | I use gnu tools in it | Jan 08 16:10 |
| Ariadne | yes, the good ones are available | Jan 08 16:10 |
| schestowitz | *alpine | Jan 08 16:10 |
| schestowitz | it's very solid an OS | Jan 08 16:11 |
| schestowitz | never seen it crash yet... 2+ years | Jan 08 16:11 |
| schestowitz | the DB container in it -- same. 100% uptime since creation last Easter | Jan 08 16:11 |
| schestowitz | at work we have an NHS client with lots of postgres and one machine with MS SQL | Jan 08 16:12 |
| schestowitz | and boy, I can tell some stories about that machine | Jan 08 16:12 |
| schestowitz | it's beyond tragic | Jan 08 16:12 |
| schestowitz | sometimes it crashes, sometimes it shuts itself down because of licence validation | Jan 08 16:12 |
| schestowitz | so the other 50+ machines cannot function (they all run debian/ubuntu) | Jan 08 16:12 |
| schestowitz | so there's really no sane argument for keeping MS SQL in there | Jan 08 16:13 |
| schestowitz | but you know Microsoft 'grayheads' | Jan 08 16:13 |
| Ariadne | well if they were actually using MS SQL features it would make sense | Jan 08 16:13 |
| schestowitz | I think they use some windows gui somewhere | Jan 08 16:13 |
| schestowitz | but all the heavy listing isn't done by that lousy machine, which runs some old version of WIndutendo | Jan 08 16:14 |
| Ariadne | [09:06:57] <CrystalMath> Ariadne: not so much the late 2000s/2010s one | Jan 08 16:14 |
| Ariadne | i'm pretty much a product of the mid 2000s-2010s one | Jan 08 16:15 |
| Ariadne | MS SQL can do a lot | Jan 08 16:15 |
| CrystalMath | Ariadne: that was after the e-zines and phrack and the cool kids hacking the Gibson | Jan 08 16:15 |
| Ariadne | though PostgreSQL has caught up in a lot of areas | Jan 08 16:15 |
| MinceR | mace windutendo? | Jan 08 16:17 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: i haven't found any errors in the article | Jan 08 16:21 |
| *notanamber has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) | Jan 08 16:30 | |
| schestowitz | thanks, MinceR | Jan 08 16:38 |
| MinceR | np | Jan 08 16:38 |
| schestowitz | assange video now 9% uploaded. Wow, blazing fast. maybe it'll be ready by midnight... | Jan 08 16:41 |
| schestowitz | no time left to do one about InteLeaks | Jan 08 16:41 |
| schestowitz | we need to do scheduling and time-sharing for uploads | Jan 08 16:41 |
| schestowitz | like in the days we bought quotas for trans-Atlantic traffic | Jan 08 16:42 |
| schestowitz | or got it free after midnight | Jan 08 16:42 |
| schestowitz | Brexit means Brexshit | Jan 08 16:42 |
| vZS1_2 | Looking forward to the Assange video | Jan 08 16:53 |
| schestowitz | BT could rush it through | Jan 08 17:02 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/2021/01/08/ | Jan 08 17:02 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | Social Control Media Posts | Jan 08 17:03 | |
| schestowitz | #BT is truly horrible; now our download speeds are seriously degraded as well. Hard to get work done! And we both work from home!! http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2021/01/06/coronavirus-bt/ ☞ | Jan 08 17:03 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » Coronavirus May Have Caused a Nationwide or Regional Congestion Crisis for BT | Jan 08 17:03 | |
| schestowitz | I think I will report #bt for its abuses over the weekend... complaint to #ofcom ... and it won't be pretty. BT has dug its own grave. Context: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2021/01/06/coronavirus-bt/ #btuk | Jan 08 17:03 |
| schestowitz | Latest update on awful, awful #bt After a bad week (upload speeds still appalling, now download speeds too) the manager was supposed to phone me, but did not! Liars. Trying to make a call with them? 20-30 minutes just to speak to an "adviser". They're being snobbish and unhelpful. | Jan 08 17:03 |
| vZS1_2 | Better off leaving BT, once your contract expires. | Jan 08 17:04 |
| schestowitz | the line us theirs | Jan 08 17:07 |
| schestowitz | openreach | Jan 08 17:07 |
| schestowitz | afaik, exchanges too are shared among ISPs | Jan 08 17:08 |
| schestowitz | so short of 4g modem/router, which is expensive (the people in Newcastle's chartered thing told me), might be last resort | Jan 08 17:08 |
| *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Jan 08 17:09 | |
| *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights | Jan 08 17:19 | |
| *kupi (uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xikvdfvfkemgovqv) has joined #techrights | Jan 08 17:24 | |
| *vZS1_2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Jan 08 17:25 | |
| schestowitz | vZS1: it sped up all of a sudden, done now | Jan 08 17:53 |
| schestowitz | I'll do an Intel piece | Jan 08 17:53 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: psydroid will quote you soon | Jan 08 18:47 |
| schestowitz | a great deal | Jan 08 18:47 |
| schestowitz | in next Intel series part | Jan 08 18:48 |
| MinceR | :) | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | core part: | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | This seems to be the core: | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > The preferred method was markdown. There was flexibility for rst or | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > asciidocs as an alternate if needed. The guides were published in | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > the end as HTML. After the process was in place, several teams | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > (mostly low-technical or even close to what could be considered | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > non-technical) refused to conform to the process and requested, | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > first, to use Google Docs for a GNU Linux project - this request was | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > refused. A manager suggested reporting the non conformity to other | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > management. To my knowledge this was never pursued. Then, the one | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > non-conforming team requested a docx format be used with 0 versioning | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > and multiple versions being passed around with no confirmation as to | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > the "current" version. After insisting the git process be conformed | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > to, a resource reminded the group of a looming deadline at this | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > point, and forced an exception in this case. First, the content of | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > docs were staged in gitlab by a writing resource - in markdown. The | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > engineering team stated they did not know markdown. Those on the team | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > in another capacity - content strategy, still refused to edit in | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > gitlab passing multiple versions of MS Word docx format after Google | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | > Docs was outright refused for this GNU Linux project. | Jan 08 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Anon: "However, I would recommend paraphrasing rather than quoting. No specific reasons, just that raw quotes of material of that provenance should be done sparingly." | Jan 08 18:48 |
| psydroid | these days Markdown and LaTeX are just as easy to handle using web tools as Google Docs and MS Word with vastly better results, so the problems with using freely available and generally user-friendly tools must be cultural | Jan 08 18:57 |
| psydroid | this reminds me of what is going on at the LF | Jan 08 18:57 |
| cybrNaut- | I know some aerospace engineers who "can't handle" LaTeX, so the project opted for genuine MS Word, which of course is a complete disaster when checking binary docs into Clearcase and then doing a diff for reviews. | Jan 08 19:00 |
| MinceR | lol | Jan 08 19:01 |
| cybrNaut- | I didn't accept the rationale that they can't handle it.. I think management just hates engineers to maintain docs that alienates managers | Jan 08 19:01 |
| cybrNaut- | low-tech managers like MS Word, and that preference gets imposed on engineers doing the real work. | Jan 08 19:03 |
| cybrNaut- | The project manager said "we don't use LaTeX b/c no one knows it". Then I went to a university and asked "why are these science students using Google Docs instead of LaTeX" The reply was: "Because LaTeX is not in industry" | Jan 08 19:05 |
| cybrNaut- | wtf | Jan 08 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Intel is being 'infested' or increasingly dominated by people who lack technical skills and have an affinity for Microsoft's proprietary software (even in divisions dedicated to GNU/Linux) | Jan 08 19:05 |
| cybrNaut- | so is it the psydroid project that is battling this? I didn't catch the context | Jan 08 19:07 |
| schestowitz | you will see | Jan 08 19:07 |
| schestowitz | I will quote you also | Jan 08 19:08 |
| schestowitz | what you said is relevant to it | Jan 08 19:08 |
| schestowitz | I will post a draft in a moment | Jan 08 19:10 |
| schestowitz | this way we can add more quotes and correct typos | Jan 08 19:11 |
| schestowitz | those are viewed a lot | Jan 08 19:11 |
| schestowitz | I think angry Intel workers like it | Jan 08 19:11 |
| psydroid | cybrNaut-: it is not my project, I am just giving my input in a place where I have something to contribute and also where I was/am directly and indirectly in contact with people who worked at or are currently working at Intel. To be honest it feels more like a curse than a blessing bo be surrounded by them in many places. | Jan 08 19:11 |
| schestowitz | Here http://techrights.org/2021/01/08/intel-drupal-and-microsoft/ | Jan 08 19:11 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | InteLeaks – Part VIII: Microsoft and Its Facilitators Destroying Intel From the Inside | Techrights | Jan 08 19:11 | |
| psydroid | to* | Jan 08 19:11 |
| schestowitz | draft, there will be typo | Jan 08 19:11 |
| schestowitz | *typos | Jan 08 19:11 |
| schestowitz | but I hope the flow is logical, sort of | Jan 08 19:12 |
| cybrNaut- | One reason managers cling to proprietary s/w: if the tool fails, they want accountability. Although I think proprietary is as without warranty as free software, managers think they are less exposed if they can blame software issues on another supplier. But I'm not sure why a commercial linux entity like Red Hat couldn't fill the scapegoat role just the same | Jan 08 19:20 |
| schestowitz | ok, post finalised | Jan 08 19:22 |
| schestowitz | unless you spot typos | Jan 08 19:23 |
| psydroid | "This is how you can quickly drive out any GNU/Linux talent you’ve managed to attract." <- This resonates strongly with me, as their HR people's attempts to reach out to potential candidates doesn't even seem genuine. They know they need those people with GNU/Linux skills, but don't even mention anything about the job out of a fear of never being able to attract them in the first place, if people knew what was going o | Jan 08 19:23 |
| psydroid | on the inside. | Jan 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | that's why we do this series :-) | Jan 08 19:24 |
| psydroid | (maybe off the record, but ARM HR offered me a job for Linux/KVM work) | Jan 08 19:24 |
| psydroid | it's all about the intent, I think | Jan 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | NVIdia | Jan 08 19:26 |
| schestowitz | watch out | Jan 08 19:26 |
| schestowitz | not British | Jan 08 19:26 |
| schestowitz | Not Japanese | Jan 08 19:27 |
| schestowitz | "fuck you, nvidia" | Jan 08 19:27 |
| psydroid | it was a few years ago before Nvidia came on the radar | Jan 08 19:27 |
| schestowitz | aha | Jan 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | well, japan has issues | Jan 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | softbank also | Jan 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | bad investment | Jan 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | many I can think of | Jan 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | never mind the olympic mistake | Jan 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | mario can wait | Jan 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | and lugi | Jan 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | luigi | Jan 08 19:28 |
| psydroid | lol | Jan 08 19:29 |
| schestowitz | whoa | Jan 08 19:29 |
| schestowitz | 1300+ covid deaths today in the uk | Jan 08 19:29 |
| schestowitz | well done, tories | Jan 08 19:29 |
| schestowitz | a-holes | Jan 08 19:29 |
| psydroid | I visited the olympic town near stratford once | Jan 08 19:29 |
| psydroid | completely abandoned | Jan 08 19:29 |
| psydroid | just like the one in barcelona | Jan 08 19:29 |
| schestowitz | 68k new cases | Jan 08 19:29 |
| schestowitz | psydroid: white elephants | Jan 08 19:30 |
| schestowitz | the rich don't care | Jan 08 19:30 |
| schestowitz | the taxpayers pay | Jan 08 19:30 |
| schestowitz | we foot the bill with national debts | Jan 08 19:30 |
| schestowitz | so they can mass-distract the masses with stupid festivals | Jan 08 19:30 |
| schestowitz | while they funnel money to their islands | Jan 08 19:30 |
| schestowitz | they keep football going now | Jan 08 19:30 |
| schestowitz | but nothing else | Jan 08 19:31 |
| schestowitz | no shops | Jan 08 19:31 |
| schestowitz | but football | Jan 08 19:31 |
| schestowitz | gotta keep the 'plebs' distracted by something | Jan 08 19:31 |
| schestowitz | and hopeful with vaccine promises | Jan 08 19:31 |
| schestowitz | from Pearly B | Jan 08 19:31 |
| schestowitz | in some parts near london 1 in 50 people tested positive | Jan 08 19:32 |
| schestowitz | not estimated by extrapolation but actually tested | Jan 08 19:32 |
| schestowitz | so it's getting hard to safely walk "out there" | Jan 08 19:32 |
| schestowitz | I left the home today for the first time in 19 days (new record) to get loads of food | Jan 08 19:32 |
| schestowitz | psydroid: thanks for the useful input re Intel, I've added that as a paragrap | Jan 08 19:33 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | The party of "law and order" murdered a Capitol Police officer. | Jan 08 19:48 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Law enforcement is looking for the people responsible for beating and trampling officer Brian Sicknick to death. Trump loves those people and they are very special to him. | Jan 08 19:48 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | The party of cop killers and neoconfederates on welfare. | Jan 08 19:50 |
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| cybrNaut- | what were his injuries? were they head injuries? | Jan 08 19:53 |
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| cybrNaut- | it's good to see some backlash. A lawyer who was in the mob was sacked by his employer, and a professor in the mob was forced to resign | Jan 08 19:54 |
| cybrNaut- | Josh Holly's publisher is now refusing to publish his book, and Shopify pulled the plug on 2 shops selling Trump swag/flags/etc | Jan 08 19:56 |
| schestowitz | too late | Jan 08 19:58 |
| schestowitz | too little, too late | Jan 08 19:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They nabbed that guy from Arkansas sitting at Pelosi's desk. He faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years. | Jan 08 20:04 |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/us-capitol-riots-arrest-pelosi-desk/index.html | Jan 08 20:04 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Man seen in viral photograph at Nancy Pelosi's desk faces charges, officials say - CNNPolitics | Jan 08 20:04 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | Keep the quarter. Call a lawyer. | Jan 08 20:04 |
| DaemonFC[m] | "The man photographed sitting at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's desk during Wednesday's riots in the US Capitol has been arrested and charged with three federal counts, including theft of public property, federal officials said Friday." | Jan 08 20:05 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He stole an envelope with a letter Pelosi was writing to another House member. | Jan 08 20:05 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That was another felony charge, apparently. | Jan 08 20:05 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He was waving it around in front of a CNN camera and bragging that he stole it. | Jan 08 20:06 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That will be evidence, along with the picture he took of himself with his feet propped up on her office desk, and posted to Facebook. | Jan 08 20:07 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Criminal mastermind. MinceR schestowitz | Jan 08 20:07 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Can you believe these people? No plan for what would happen after they did this. | Jan 08 20:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And some of them are even CEOs and shit. | Jan 08 20:08 |
| cybrNaut- | "including theft of public property" <= he said on camera that he left a quarter on Pelosi's desk to pay for the letterhead that he took. Will be interesting to see if that holds up | Jan 08 20:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That doesn't hold up because the owner of the property has to consent. | Jan 08 20:08 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And they also arrested that guy who stole a speaking podium from the Senate chamber. | Jan 08 20:08 |
| CrystalMath | i suppose it'll take a quarter off the fine he gets in addition to the sentence :P | Jan 08 20:09 |
| CrystalMath | that was pretty dumb indeed | Jan 08 20:09 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Yeah, if I was the judge I'd fine him $9,999.75 for the theft. That's $10,000 (minimum fine) minus the quarter. | Jan 08 20:09 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC[m]: lol | Jan 08 20:10 |
| cybrNaut- | i'm sure strictly speaking it wouldn't hold up, but if a jury thinks a sentence is overly harsh they can vote against the charge | Jan 08 20:10 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Give the news something funny to write about. | Jan 08 20:10 |
| MinceR | they must have believed they're above the law like their hero | Jan 08 20:10 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR: This guy isn't worth costing us money to jail. I'd stick him with three $10,000 fines, a 10 year suspended prison sentence contingent on successfully completing ten years of house arrest with ankle monitoring, at his own expense. | Jan 08 20:11 |
| cybrNaut- | jury nullification is the mechanism, although most US courts neglect to inform jurors of the jury nullification option | Jan 08 20:11 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Oh, they won't go to a jury trial. | Jan 08 20:12 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They'll plea bargain, most of them. | Jan 08 20:12 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That's how 86% of cases end, and the 14% that go to trial, there's a 90% conviction rate. | Jan 08 20:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So, uhhh, good luck with that. | Jan 08 20:13 |
| schestowitz | 'bargain' | Jan 08 20:13 |
| schestowitz | what will be the charges against cops who allowed this invasion? | Jan 08 20:13 |
| schestowitz | oh, sorry | Jan 08 20:13 |
| schestowitz | police are above the law | Jan 08 20:13 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Some of them are being fired. | Jan 08 20:14 |
| schestowitz | "blue lives meeeetah" | Jan 08 20:14 |
| CrystalMath | the police got defunded :P | Jan 08 20:14 |
| cybrNaut- | iirc, Maryland passed a bill that informs jurors about the jury nullification option.. but I guess that doesn't help these guys | Jan 08 20:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The mob killed one officer, you know. | Jan 08 20:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Injured 57 of them too. | Jan 08 20:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That's what they get for treating them so softly. | Jan 08 20:14 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They deserve it after that. | Jan 08 20:14 |
| MinceR | https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/916/doctor-strange-benedict-cumberbatch.jpg | Jan 08 20:14 |
| CrystalMath | i wonder, who was BLM trying to defund earlier this year? | Jan 08 20:15 |
| CrystalMath | mops? | Jan 08 20:15 |
| schestowitz | what shambles | Jan 08 20:15 |
| CrystalMath | crops? | Jan 08 20:15 |
| CrystalMath | i can't quite put my finger on it | Jan 08 20:15 |
| CrystalMath | i'm not surprised the police did nothing | Jan 08 20:15 |
| MinceR | it will be interesting to see a new kind of jury trial where every member of the jury votes solely on the basis of which party they support | Jan 08 20:15 |
| CrystalMath | MinceR: welcome to 3rd world america | Jan 08 20:15 |
| MinceR | it's 1st world by definition :> | Jan 08 20:16 |
| schestowitz | thier own | Jan 08 20:16 |
| schestowitz | I am in favour of ranking nations by wealth gap | Jan 08 20:16 |
| CrystalMath | but i mean it's starting to get really crappy there | Jan 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | a country where some people have a billion times more in the bank than those who do all the work for them rank last | Jan 08 20:17 |
| MinceR | :> | Jan 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | over here brexit drobe away many people | Jan 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | not EU folks | Jan 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Brits with talent | Jan 08 20:18 |
| schestowitz | and now COVID chops down or mows down many people | Jan 08 20:18 |
| cybrNaut- | schestowitz: those rankings exist. And as you'd expect, Denmark is near the top and the US is near the bottom next to Mexico and other 3rd worlds | Jan 08 20:18 |
| schestowitz | there will be many homes for sale if like half a million people perish in a couple of years | Jan 08 20:18 |
| schestowitz | so it's not great here either | Jan 08 20:18 |
| schestowitz | we lose people | Jan 08 20:18 |
| schestowitz | not the ones who are without "value to society" | Jan 08 20:18 |
| schestowitz | they go to greener pastures (not US!) | Jan 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | why denmark? | Jan 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | they rate high for scholarly things | Jan 08 20:19 |
| schestowitz | like publications/capita | Jan 08 20:19 |
| cybrNaut- | https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm | Jan 08 20:20 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-data.oecd.org | Inequality - Income inequality - OECD Data | Jan 08 20:20 | |
| schestowitz | aha | Jan 08 20:20 |
| cybrNaut- | actually Denmark is 6th | Jan 08 20:20 |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz: Apparently I did order Mandy's birth certificate properly. I got two copies on the way via FedEx. | Jan 08 20:22 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | So there's one problem down, I suppose. | Jan 08 20:22 |
| cybrNaut- | so if you're an unskilled laborer, good places to work are belgium or scandinavia, and lousy places to work are US or UK | Jan 08 20:22 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The federal agencies in the US seem to have a penchant for just grabbing originals and never giving them back. | Jan 08 20:22 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The certified copy we have is a little beat up, so if they want an original, that's the one USCIS is getting. | Jan 08 20:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He managed to send his passport through the washing machine when he lived with the wicked witch of Gurnee. | Jan 08 20:23 |
| MinceR | did you expect something better from a state? :> | Jan 08 20:23 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR: Nope. | Jan 08 20:23 |
| cybrNaut- | DaemonFC[m]: you should be boycotting FedEx. FedEx is an NRA-supporting ALEC member (supports Trump's views on policy). FedEx also ships shark fins, slave dolphins, and hunting trophies | Jan 08 20:24 |
| schestowitz | hmmm... looks like covid deaths per capita in hungary is similar to what it is here | Jan 08 20:24 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I try not to have expectations when dealing with the government, except that it will be as horrible, combative, and difficult as possible. | Jan 08 20:24 |
| schestowitz | orban isn't handling it well, either | Jan 08 20:24 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: did the fascists impose lockdown? | Jan 08 20:24 |
| MinceR | hey, orban is doing everything he can | Jan 08 20:24 |
| MinceR | avoiding testing, not buying tests, lying about the numbers, talking shit | Jan 08 20:24 |
| MinceR | faking the numbers, presenting them in a useless way | Jan 08 20:25 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Congress is impeaching Trump again next week. | Jan 08 20:25 |
| MinceR | not doing contact tracking | Jan 08 20:25 |
| MinceR | "you can't stop the pandemic with masks!" | Jan 08 20:25 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They should just let loose on the articles and name everything he's done that should be considered criminal, at least the major stuff. | Jan 08 20:25 |
| MinceR | "you can't stop the pandemic with testing!" | Jan 08 20:25 |
| MinceR | "you can't stop the pandemic with contact tracing!" | Jan 08 20:25 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Criminal negligence during the coronavirus pandemic. | Jan 08 20:25 |
| schestowitz | lol | Jan 08 20:25 |
| MinceR | oh, and arresting people for saying negative things about him on dumbFuckBook | Jan 08 20:25 |
| schestowitz | herd immunity idiocy | Jan 08 20:25 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: we have the most idiotic lockdown ever | Jan 08 20:26 |
| MinceR | curfew between 20:00 and 5:00 unless you have a dog with you and within 500m of your home | Jan 08 20:26 |
| schestowitz | tbh, I have the 'privilege' of working from home even well before this... so I can self-isolate a lot. Many lost their jobs or work jobs that don't let them isolate properly | Jan 08 20:26 |
| DaemonFC[m] | 22,342,229 confirmed total cases in the US so far. | Jan 08 20:26 |
| MinceR | in bigger settlements you have to wear a mask on public grounds | Jan 08 20:26 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC[m]: like Mandy's job | Jan 08 20:26 |
| DaemonFC[m] | 376,447confirmed deaths | Jan 08 20:26 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They say your first million's the hardest. | Jan 08 20:27 |
| schestowitz | 400k by inauguration | Jan 08 20:27 |
| MinceR | because obviously SARS-CoV-2 only infects between 20:00 and 5:00 and is afraid of dogs, but only if the dog is within 500m of its home | Jan 08 20:27 |
| schestowitz | not likely, but not impossible | Jan 08 20:27 |
| schestowitz | if it surges fast | Jan 08 20:27 |
| MinceR | they apparently negotiated a ceasefire with SARS-CoV-2 for december 24 night, though | Jan 08 20:27 |
| schestowitz | excess deaths in US to reach a million by March, I read last year | Jan 08 20:27 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yeah, nicely put | Jan 08 20:28 |
| schestowitz | with jokes and humour | Jan 08 20:28 |
| schestowitz | they limit opening times | Jan 08 20:28 |
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| MinceR | yeah, they did that too | Jan 08 20:28 |
| schestowitz | that only increases how crowded places become | Jan 08 20:28 |
| MinceR | which is, of course, counterproductive | Jan 08 20:28 |
| schestowitz | I buy food at the very quiet hours | Jan 08 20:28 |
| MinceR | but hey, they're showing off how forceful they are | Jan 08 20:28 |
| MinceR | as fascists should | Jan 08 20:28 |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/bidens-2000-stimulus-checks-opposed-manchin | Jan 08 20:28 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.foxbusiness.com | Biden's push for $2,000 stimulus checks opposed by Manchin: 'Absolutely not' | Fox Business | Jan 08 20:28 | |
| schestowitz | amazon(r) is open 24/7 | Jan 08 20:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Well, some of the Republicans really wanted the $2,000 and just couldn't get it by Mitch McConnell. | Jan 08 20:29 |
| schestowitz | we need to limit the versatility of rivals of theirs | Jan 08 20:29 |
| schestowitz | because their rivals actually do pay tax | Jan 08 20:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So the main problem in the way of that will be gone soon. | Jan 08 20:29 |
| MinceR | the extra deaths per week (compared to the previous 5 years) were approximately twice as many as the COVID-19 deaths they officially reported | Jan 08 20:29 |
| MinceR | of course this could be because a lot of people who didn't have COVID-19 didn't get the treatment they needed | Jan 08 20:29 |
| MinceR | those people don't count anymore | Jan 08 20:29 |
| DaemonFC[m] | MinceR: Trump's Brownshirts are being identified and rounded up. | Jan 08 20:30 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: that's why I say count death certs | Jan 08 20:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | He threw them under the bus saying they would be found and punished severely. | Jan 08 20:30 |
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| MinceR | the nazis even had people kicked out of hospitals to free up beds in preparation for COVID-19 treatment | Jan 08 20:30 |
| schestowitz | and then measure excess deaths | Jan 08 20:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Meanwhile, he's talking to impeachment and criminal defense lawyers about his own conduct. | Jan 08 20:30 |
| MinceR | and then lied about this | Jan 08 20:30 |
| schestowitz | harder to game such numbers | Jan 08 20:30 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | This is the first time since the Civil War that DC has had to request soldiers from state governments to protect it. | Jan 08 20:31 |
| schestowitz | https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/01/all-aboard-the-pequod/ | Jan 08 20:31 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-krebsonsecurity.com | All Aboard the Pequod! — Krebs on Security | Jan 08 20:31 | |
| schestowitz | "Like countless others, I frittered away the better part of Jan. 6 doomscrolling and watching television coverage of the horrifying events unfolding in our nation’s capital, where a mob of President Trump supporters and QAnon conspiracy theorists was incited to lay siege to the U.S. Capitol. For those trying to draw meaning from the experience, might I suggest consulting the literary classic Moby Dick, which simultaneously holds | Jan 08 20:31 |
| schestowitz | clues about QAnon’s origins and offers an apt allegory about a modern-day Captain Ahab and his ill-fated obsessions." | Jan 08 20:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And Mayor Bowser had to ask state governors because Trump wouldn't call up the DC National Guard. | Jan 08 20:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | She got over 5,000 soldiers and several hundred state police officers from other states in, and only then did Trump call up the DC Guard. | Jan 08 20:32 |
| DaemonFC[m] | She's calling on the federal government to admit DC as a state and to give her control of their National Guard as soon as Biden gets in. | Jan 08 20:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Giving her control over the National Guard is much more likely than statehood. | Jan 08 20:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Statehood for DC should be a priority for the Democrats. The district has never voted for a Republican president or a Resident Commissioner in the House. | Jan 08 20:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | If they became a state, they would have two additional electoral votes, three House members with full voting rights, and two Senators. | Jan 08 20:34 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | It would not only make it much less likely to have a Republican majority in Congress, but two more electoral votes on the Democratic side couldn't hurt their odds of retaining the White House. | Jan 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | when you have a military as nation | Jan 08 20:35 |
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| DaemonFC[m] | But they've never moved on this before. | Jan 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | and everything is funded through military | Jan 08 20:35 |
| cybrNaut- | there is a min population requirement to become a state | Jan 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | even the tech giants | Jan 08 20:35 |
| DaemonFC[m] | <cybrNaut- "there is a min population requir"> Actually, there's not. | Jan 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | with trillions from taxpayers (debt) taken each year | Jan 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | was 1.1 trillion per year for the empire per year... as of 4 years ago | Jan 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | maybe 1.3 by now | Jan 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | the military is now directed inwards | Jan 08 20:36 |
| schestowitz | and it's just as ugly as the world foresaq | Jan 08 20:36 |
| schestowitz | *foresaw | Jan 08 20:36 |
| cybrNaut- | 4 "states" in the US are actually "commonwealths" b/c they don't reach the min population needed to be a state | Jan 08 20:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | That's wrong. | Jan 08 20:36 |
| schestowitz | no, they are colonies | Jan 08 20:36 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They all have populations many times the size of the state of Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, or North Dakota. | Jan 08 20:36 |
| schestowitz | some lack voting rights | Jan 08 20:37 |
| schestowitz | or worse | Jan 08 20:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They style themselves as Commonwealth, but in regards to their relationship with the federal government, they're still states. | Jan 08 20:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Massachusetts has about the same population as Indiana. | Jan 08 20:37 |
| DaemonFC[m] | There's few requirements, other than political ones, to becoming a state. | Jan 08 20:38 |
| cybrNaut- | https://www.businessinsider.com/why-states-are-called-commonwealths-explainer-2019-1?IR=T#commonwealth-territories-2 | Jan 08 20:38 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.businessinsider.com | Why only 4 US states are called 'Commonwealths': Explainer - Business Insider | Jan 08 20:38 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | At various times, Congress has required territories to be split up to admit them as separate states. They required the Mormons to outlaw polygamy to admit Utah. | Jan 08 20:38 |
| DaemonFC[m] | There's really nothing special about the style of "Commonwealth". | Jan 08 20:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And it has nothing to do with population or whether they are a "state" or not in our federal system. | Jan 08 20:39 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Puerto Rico could legally be admitted as a state and decide for itself whether to refer to itself as state or commonwealth or attack helicopter. | Jan 08 20:40 |
| MinceR | i'm hoping for the latter | Jan 08 20:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It doesn't really mean much of anything, legally, whether a state calls itself a commonwealth. | Jan 08 20:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It is admitted as a state. | Jan 08 20:40 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Many people don't like the idea of DC being a state, and also don't like the idea of them having no self-governance at all. | Jan 08 20:41 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Which is where the amendment to give them some electoral votes, and the DC Home Rule law came from. | Jan 08 20:41 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But not giving them statehood is unfair. | Jan 08 20:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They have to come up with their own budget, from their own taxes. | Jan 08 20:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Congress has specifically stopped them from laying down fair share taxes on people who live outside the district but work there. | Jan 08 20:42 |
| DaemonFC[m] | When you live in a state and work in another state, the two states have an agreement on who gets the taxes. | Jan 08 20:43 |
| cybrNaut- | isn't there a loss of freedom in becoming a state? E.g. marijuana can be state regulated, but if the fed wants to regulate it they have to abuse the interstate commerce clause of the Constitution | Jan 08 20:43 |
| DaemonFC[m] | For example, when you live in Indiana, and work in Illinois, you file income taxes in Illinois and Indiana, but you pay Illinois, and then deduct your Illinois taxes from Indiana, which means you're paying Illinois, not Indiana. | Jan 08 20:44 |
| DaemonFC[m] | <cybrNaut- "isn't there a loss of freedom in"> Actually no. A territory, or a federal enclave like DC, is ruled over directly by Congress and gets an Organic Act that delegates whatever Congress doesn't want to deal with. | Jan 08 20:44 |
| DaemonFC[m] | In the case of DC, they could only legalize marijuana in the district because the Home Rule Act gives them the authority to pass laws for the District, and Congress can only overrule those laws by either voting them down within 30 days, or passing a new federal law that voids it out. | Jan 08 20:45 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And they never did. | Jan 08 20:45 |
| cybrNaut- | some states have tax treaties, which simplifies it. E.g. there's a treaty between ohio and indiana so you only have to file in the state where you reside. | Jan 08 20:45 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Well, these aren't exactly treaties. | Jan 08 20:46 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They're called inter-state compacts, and they have to either be agreed to individually by Congress or Congress can preemptively give the states permission to come to any agreement they want about a certain issue. | Jan 08 20:46 |
| DaemonFC[m] | When you hear about representatives from a state government making a trade deal with China or something, there is no formal deal. It would be illegal without Congress authorizing it. | Jan 08 20:47 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But they can legally agree that if Indiana does this, then China will do that, but without a binding agreement in effect. | Jan 08 20:47 |
| DaemonFC[m] | As an informal agreement. | Jan 08 20:48 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Likewise, some countries won't extradite anyone who faces a death sentence. | Jan 08 20:48 |
| cybrNaut- | since drivers licenses are a state thing, each US state must separately get a driving reciprocity agreement with each country | Jan 08 20:48 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They can't negotiate with a state government in the US because that's illegal. | Jan 08 20:48 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But the state can agree with the federal government that the person will not face the death sentence, and then the federal government can make that agreement with the foreign governemnt. | Jan 08 20:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | <cybrNaut- "since drivers licenses are a sta"> Not exactly. | Jan 08 20:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | In the US, there's the driver's license compact. 47/50 states are part of the compact. | Jan 08 20:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The other 3 recognize out of state licenses as a matter of their own state law. | Jan 08 20:49 |
| DaemonFC[m] | But Canadian provinces are signed on to the license compact. | Jan 08 20:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Foreign government can give effect to US driver's licenses if they want to. | Jan 08 20:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They don't have to. | Jan 08 20:50 |
| cybrNaut- | In belgium they have a list of which kind of endorsement from each US state maps to what endorsement on the belgian license | Jan 08 20:51 |
| cybrNaut- | and iirc most states motorcycle licenses are not recognized in Belgium | Jan 08 20:52 |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://www.dmv.org/travel/driving-outside-the-united-states.php | Jan 08 20:52 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Driving Outside the U.S. | DMV.ORG | Jan 08 20:52 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | "Wherefore President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security, democracy, and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit | Jan 08 20:53 |
| DaemonFC[m] | under the United States." | Jan 08 20:53 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Nice. | Jan 08 20:53 |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/trump-article-of-impeachment-draft/index.html | Jan 08 20:54 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Read: House Democrats' draft of a new article of impeachment against Trump - CNNPolitics | Jan 08 20:54 | |
| MinceR | indeed | Jan 08 20:57 |
| cybrNaut- | seems like the riot is minor compared to collusion with russia to manipulate the 2016 election, and compared to the quid-pro-quo with Ukraine, yet the riot may actually be the only impeachment that has effect in the end | Jan 08 20:57 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Incitement of Insurrection | Jan 08 20:57 |
| MinceR | the "republican" party was on board with russian manipulation of the 2016 election | Jan 08 20:57 |
| MinceR | they do not agree with the current circus | Jan 08 20:57 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The others were political in nature and the Republican Party figured it would gain from it if he made corrupt deals with Ukraine to dig dirt on Biden. | Jan 08 20:57 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So they let him go, | Jan 08 20:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | This time, their fan club endangered them and sent them running for the fallout shelter under the building. | Jan 08 20:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They're pissed. | Jan 08 20:58 |
| DaemonFC[m] | They're also dealing with a president who is leaving office in 12 days anyway, who they now do not want to return. | Jan 08 20:59 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The game has changed. | Jan 08 20:59 |
| cybrNaut- | this will parallel OJ Simpson. Got off easy the 1st time for something severe, and will get an ass-woopin' later for something relatively mild | Jan 08 21:00 |
| cybrNaut- | which of course leaves a fucked up precedence | Jan 08 21:01 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I doubt Pelosi would be going full steam ahead with a new impeachment if she didn't see some gain from it. | Jan 08 21:02 |
| DaemonFC[m] | If the Senate wouldn't consider it, it would be just as well to let his term expire. | Jan 08 21:02 |
| DaemonFC[m] | On the upside, Mike Pence finally might get to be the president. For like a week. | Jan 08 21:02 |
| cybrNaut- | not sure that's an upside. Pence could give Trump a pardon then | Jan 08 21:03 |
| cybrNaut- | (i've wondered if that's part of trump's plan) | Jan 08 21:04 |
| CrystalMath | what sane person wants Mike Pence to be president? | Jan 08 21:05 |
| CrystalMath | even for a second? | Jan 08 21:05 |
| MinceR | "republican"s | Jan 08 21:06 |
| cybrNaut- | trump could step down voluntarily, for a brief moment, just to get pardoned. But now it looks like he can be more stealthy, and get temparily "involuntarily" deposed to get a pardon | Jan 08 21:06 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Technically, he could declare he was incapacitated, but that's dangerous because Pence doesn't have to give it back after he pardons him. | Jan 08 21:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And Pence doesn't even have to pardon him. | Jan 08 21:30 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Plus, Trump hates looking weak. | Jan 08 21:31 |
| DaemonFC[m] | It says if the President thinks he should reassume his duties, he can ask Congress, and they have to vote on it....within 21 days. | Jan 08 21:33 |
| DaemonFC[m] | "In the video he speaks calmly and without any of the emotion he expresses when he means what he is saying. The script was undoubtedly written by one of his lawyers with an eye to being used in court as a defense down the road. In contrast to his usual speeches, there were only two major lies in it, namely, that he was outraged by the mob attacking the Capitol and that when he saw it happening, he deployed the | Jan 08 21:35 |
| DaemonFC[m] | National Guard. " | Jan 08 21:35 |
| cybrNaut- | i wonder if Trump burnt the bridge with Pence, or does Pence simply view the theatrics as due "pressure" to help Pence save face while neglecting to certify the election. | Jan 08 21:49 |
| cybrNaut- | sometimes arm-twisting helps politicians do what they secretly want to do anyway | Jan 08 21:50 |
| cybrNaut- | the answer to that would give an idea of whether Pence would pardon Trump | Jan 08 21:51 |
| DaemonFC[m] | Pence has always had a cold and distant relationship to Trump. | Jan 08 21:56 |
| DaemonFC[m] | The fact that almost 100 people were infected in the White House Coronavirus outbreak and Pence wasn't one of them shows us how out of the loop he is. | Jan 08 21:57 |
| *cybrNaut- has quit (Quit: bailing) | Jan 08 21:58 | |
| *cybrNaut (~cybrNaut@rrcs-67-53-148-69.west.biz.rr.com) has joined #techrights | Jan 08 22:07 | |
| *cybrNaut has quit (Changing host) | Jan 08 22:07 | |
| *cybrNaut (~cybrNaut@unaffiliated/cybrnaut) has joined #techrights | Jan 08 22:07 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz: Would have helped had the UK not sold off all its gold reserves at the lowest gold prices ever. | Jan 08 22:48 |
| DaemonFC[m] | I might be wrong, but I think they could have gotten something close to 4x as much money selling them off now vs. when they did. | Jan 08 22:48 |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/07/trump-staffers-next-job-456315 | Jan 08 22:50 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trump staffers are worrying about their next job - POLITICO | Jan 08 22:50 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | One of them says that by not abandoning their post, they can one day spin their subservience to a president who tried to overthrow America as a good thing. | Jan 08 22:50 |
| DaemonFC[m] | “A lot of us want to [also] build up a lot of vacation time as possible so we can get paid out what we’ve been planning to get paid out because a lot of us are going to be unemployed for some period of time because it has been an extraordinarily difficult time to get hired,” the official said. | Jan 08 22:51 |
| DaemonFC[m] | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/world/biden-vaccine.html | Jan 08 23:00 |
| -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.nytimes.com | Biden Plans to Release Nearly All Available Doses to Speed Up Vaccinations - The New York Times | Jan 08 23:00 | |
| DaemonFC[m] | schestowitz: From the studies the drug companies published, two doses doesn't seem much more effective than one. | Jan 08 23:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | So they're essentially cutting the vaccination rate in half and double dipping. | Jan 08 23:00 |
| DaemonFC[m] | And I hear that people tend to get sicker after the second dose than they did from the first. | Jan 08 23:01 |
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