Techrights logo

IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Friday, January 08, 2021

(ℹ) Join us now at the IRC channel | ䷉ Find the plain text version at this address.

schestowitz 08 00:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/ Corrupt media now spreads #golang and #gnu #linux FUD in conjunction. It seems to have originated from a site whose mod/editor was arrested for raping kids while working for Microsoft (Peter Bright). Jan 08 00:01
schestowitz 08 00:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Microsoft Peter is a Pedophile, Arrested Without Bail | TechrightsJan 08 00:01
schestowitzconvictedJan 08 00:01
schestowitzand arrested for a long timeJan 08 00:01
schestowitz 08 00:01
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Microsoft Peter Convicted for Pedophilia (and Still Defending Pedophilia) | TechrightsJan 08 00:01
*psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving)Jan 08 00:01
schestowitz 08 00:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Even After Microsoft Lost Its PR ‘Asset’ at Ars Technica (Arrested for Sexually Abusing Kids) Ars Technica Persists With Microsoft Advocacy (in ‘News’ Form) | TechrightsJan 08 00:02
vZS1I've been seeing this since the middle of 2020Jan 08 00:03
schestowitz 08 00:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/ Still waiting for so-called 'social justice warriors' to call for shutdown of #arstechnica and its parent company that also operates #reddit (a hornet's nest for pedophiles) Jan 08 00:03
vZS1But the frequency and volume is increasingJan 08 00:03
vZS1Tiktok is also a hornet's nest for pedosJan 08 00:04
vZS1Significant chunk of videos on TikTok is sexualised minorsJan 08 00:05
schestowitzjust in: 08 00:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Encrypted Client Hello: the future of ESNI in Firefox - Mozilla Security BlogJan 08 00:08
schestowitz" we’re eager for users to realize the privacy benefits of this feature."Jan 08 00:09
schestowitzWhose privacy?Jan 08 00:09
schestowitz"In keeping with our mission of protecting your privacy online, Mozilla is actively working with Cloudflare and others on standardizing the Encrypted Client Hello specification at the IETF. Firefox 85 replaces ESNI with ECH draft-08, and another update to draft-09 (which is targeted for wider interoperability testing and deployment) is forthcoming."Jan 08 00:09
schestowitzLOL!Jan 08 00:09
schestowitzClownFlareJan 08 00:09
XRevan86ECH is a good thing though.Jan 08 00:11
schestowitzMozilla and privacy are opposites as of recent years 08 00:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Mozilla Shames Itself and Harms Its Reputation by Stating That “Comcast Has Taken Major Steps to Protect Customer Privacy” | TechrightsJan 08 00:11
XRevan86ECH is actually good for privacy.Jan 08 00:11
schestowitzlook who mozilla outsources toJan 08 00:12
schestowitzcomcast, clownflareJan 08 00:12
schestowitzit's potentially goodJan 08 00:12
schestowitzlike signing bootloaders and stuffJan 08 00:12
schestowitzin practice, however, it is outsourced to the very worst actors out thereJan 08 00:12
XRevan86It's a way to encrypt the domain name of a connecting host with TLS.Jan 08 00:12
schestowitzit's like saying e2ee is goodJan 08 00:12
schestowitzand then giving your keys to fbJan 08 00:13
schestowitzor disk encryption is goodJan 08 00:13
schestowitzbut Microsoft gets your private key for bitlocker and has a back door at OS levelJan 08 00:13
XRevan86schestowitz: Give me a scenario where ECH is taking something away.Jan 08 00:13
schestowitzmy ISP has my Net/browsing historyJan 08 00:13
schestowitzwith Mozilla I might even give that to another countryJan 08 00:14
XRevan86And that's a good thing?Jan 08 00:14
schestowitzwhich is run by a naziJan 08 00:14
XRevan86schestowitz: I think you're confusing ECH with DoH.Jan 08 00:14
schestowitzno, two different thingsJan 08 00:14
schestowitzwhrre mozilla collabs with clownsJan 08 00:14
XRevan86ECH is a TLS extension.Jan 08 00:14
schestowitzMozilla is spyingJan 08 00:15
XRevan86an encrypted bundle at the point of an early handshakeJan 08 00:15
schestowitz 08 00:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Facebook and Other Surveillance Capitalists Won’t Save Mozilla From Google Dependence | TechrightsJan 08 00:15
schestowitzMozilla is deadJan 08 00:15
schestowitzstick a fork on itJan 08 00:15
schestowitzthere are already some forksJan 08 00:15
XRevan86to allow not giving away some ClientHello information to the MitMJan 08 00:15
schestowitzI hope the good ones do reasonably wellJan 08 00:15
XRevan86like ISPs or government spying toolsJan 08 00:15
MinceR(cat) 08 00:16
XRevan86schestowitz: What you're referring to here is literally the opposite of that.Jan 08 00:17
XRevan86ECH is something that takes away snooping / targeted blocking powers from MitMs.Jan 08 00:17
XRevan86I don't know why Cloudflare is invested in this as the only thing they're getting out of this is a global cloudfront block from Roskomnadzor.Jan 08 00:18
XRevan86because when they can't do a targeted block, they'll just block the whole thingJan 08 00:19
schestowitzthat's a political thingJan 08 00:24
schestowitzit gives the US more powerJan 08 00:24
schestowitzto intercept and interject thingsJan 08 00:24
schestowitzCF should be banned mentally at leastJan 08 00:24
XRevan86ECH? No, it doesn't.Jan 08 00:24
schestowitzCF is an extension of social control mechanismsJan 08 00:24
schestowitznot free speechJan 08 00:25
schestowitzthey already shut down some usersJan 08 00:25
cybrNaut-there's a good shit-list of CloudFlare's history of wrongdoing here: 08 00:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-#141 - Remove Liberapay and Open Collective - website - Codeberg.orgJan 08 00:32
cybrNaut-when CF touts crypto, it's normally crypto that terminates at CF, because CF expects everyone to trust them and CF wants to profits from all that dataJan 08 00:33
cybrNaut-looks like ECH is somehow needed for DNS-over-HTTPS, and that's something CF pushes.  So that explains why CF wants a piece of the ECH actionJan 08 00:36
MinceR 08 00:37
XRevan86cybrNaut-: Well, if DNS is encrypted, then having SNI just expose the domain name anyway is something that mocks the whole idea.Jan 08 00:37
cybrNaut-CF has managed to coerce mobile phone users to route all their traffic through CF, even when the destination site is not a CF site (by promising them better performance), and their DNS services are connected to thatJan 08 00:38
XRevan86But technically these are separate concerns.Jan 08 00:38
schestowitzMinceR: I saw some of these before, iircJan 08 01:00
schestowitzXRevan86: CF as a whole is a concernJan 08 01:00
schestowitzin all contextJan 08 01:00
schestowitzor contextsJan 08 01:01
schestowitzfor the same reason apple and microsoft areJan 08 01:01
schestowitzand we need to strive to put CF out of 'business'Jan 08 01:01
schestowitzto undermine their bad functionsJan 08 01:01
schestowitznothing else can stop their abuseJan 08 01:01
vZS1CF want to be acquired by someoneJan 08 01:02
vZS1They're operating at a lossJan 08 01:02
vZS1Their whole model is to keep scaling as long as people buy sharesJan 08 01:03
vZS1It's a very popular tech shareJan 08 01:03
vZS1About x8 of the IPO price rnJan 08 01:03
vZS1But it's a bubbleJan 08 01:04
vZS1This will not lastJan 08 01:04
vZS1It's likely they're propped up by the surveillance actors as wellJan 08 01:05
vZS1You can see the balance sheets. They still haven't turned a profitJan 08 01:06
vZS1But the share price keeps climbing.Jan 08 01:09
vZS1People use CF as a CDN as well. Huge clients like Steam (Valve corporation)Jan 08 01:10
vZS1Steam relies heavily on CF for its CDNJan 08 01:11
vZS1I poked around a bitJan 08 01:11
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Jan 08 01:13
*liberty_box ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 01:27
MinceR 08 01:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | An erection, but fancierJan 08 01:45
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Jan 08 02:00
*mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)Jan 08 02:32
*liberty_box ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 02:34
MinceR 08 02:39
*GNUmoon2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 08 02:49
*GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrightsJan 08 02:50
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 02:54
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 02:54
*oarion7 (~anonymous@unaffiliated/oarion7) has joined #techrightsJan 08 03:18
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)Jan 08 03:29
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 03:46
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 03:47
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 03:54
psydroid 08 03:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Solved: Why is Intel allowing this?!? - Intel CommunityJan 08 03:56
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 04:05
*GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 08 04:06
*GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrightsJan 08 04:06
MinceRshould have thought about that before handing money to the redmond mafiaJan 08 04:15
MinceRlol @ proposing crapOS as a "solution"Jan 08 04:17
MinceRi wonder what that dumbass will say when crApple stops supporting his intel-based PC because they're all about ARMJan 08 04:18
psydroidthese people really like becoming victims of their own short-sighted decisionsJan 08 04:20
MinceRor they're too stupid to learn from their own mistakes, regardless of how many times they get burnedJan 08 04:20
CrystalMathpsydroid: who?Jan 08 04:30
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 04:31
*liberty_box ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 04:35
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 04:36
*oarion7 has quit (Quit: Running IRC on a charmed medieval abacus.)Jan 08 04:37
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 04:41
*liberty_box ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 04:58
*mcole ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 05:26
*kupi has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)Jan 08 05:32
*CrystalMath has quit (Quit: Call-out culture is toxic, disgusting, and vile!)Jan 08 05:40
*abarr ( has left #techrightsJan 08 06:03
*abarr ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 06:05
*GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Jan 08 06:16
schestowitz[03:56] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- | Solved: Why is Intel allowing this?!? - Intel CommunityJan 08 06:42
schestowitzLOL  Intel CommunityJan 08 06:42
schestowitzhow can one join?Jan 08 06:43
schestowitzwhat Intel Community benefits?Jan 08 06:43
schestowitz[01:05] <vZS1> It's likely they're propped up by the surveillance actors as wellJan 08 06:46
schestowitzgithubJan 08 06:46
schestowitzvZS1: Jan 08 06:47
schestowitz 08 06:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@tonroosendaal: Why was Blender not on @github? Simple: Github already accepted $350M (at least) from venture capitalists - who wan… 08 06:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@tonroosendaal: Why was Blender not on @github? Simple: Github already accepted $350M (at least) from venture capitalists - who wan… 08 06:47
schestowitzBlender’s ‘daddy’ Ton Roosendaal (@tonroosendaal) wrote this when Microsoft announced the takeover of GitHub: “Why was Blender not on @github? Simple: Github already accepted $350M (at least) from venture capitalists – who want it back with huge profits. And whatever Microsoft pays for it, they will want it back too. Who pays in the end? The users. FYI: Blender has its code on and developer services on Jan 08 06:48
schestowitz – we already host our own services since 2002. About “users paying”: I don’t mean the freemium model. I believe that in due time @github services slowly degrade to losing control and ownership of your work.”Jan 08 06:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-git.blender.orgJan 08 06:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | HomeJan 08 06:48
schestowitzvia 08 06:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Hand Inside the Blender: Microsoft Money for Blender’s Development Fund is Not a ‘Cookie Jar’ Donation But Another Power Move | TechrightsJan 08 06:48
*xvx has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)Jan 08 07:04
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 07:24
*birkoff has quit (Quit: Goodbye)Jan 08 07:30
*GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrightsJan 08 07:30
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 07:35
Techrights-sec 08 07:35
Techrights-secNFS mount or external USB drive?Jan 08 07:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Thursday, January 07, 2021Jan 08 07:35
schestowitzyes, I would do that at a later point, I can plug in, e.g., USBJan 08 07:36
*birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-bjyrzvwkmwjgpozs) has joined #techrightsJan 08 07:43
*birkoff has quit (Changing host)Jan 08 07:43
*birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrightsJan 08 07:43
*birkoff has quit (Changing host)Jan 08 07:43
*birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-bjyrzvwkmwjgpozs) has joined #techrightsJan 08 07:43
*birkoff has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 08 07:43
schestowitzvZS1: also for youJan 08 07:47
schestowitz 08 07:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Filelink for Large Attachments | Thunderbird HelpJan 08 07:47
schestowitzthunberbird has just recommended that I use thisJan 08 07:47
schestowitzfor very personal docs I sendJan 08 07:47
schestowitz22mbJan 08 07:47
schestowitz"The instructions below show how to configure and use Filelink with the Box online storage provider. We have an agreement with them to integrate their services into Thunderbird as well. (We used to have an agreement with Hightail, formerly YouSendIt). However, the community has been active in adding other providers through the use of add-ons with FileRun, hubiC, Mega, ownCloud-based services, Pydio (formerly AjaXplorer), Synnefo, and Jan 08 07:48
schestowitz~okeanos currently having add-ons."Jan 08 07:48
schestowitzthey want me to send files to nsa prism!!Jan 08 07:48
schestowitznot good!Jan 08 07:48
schestowitzno encryptionJan 08 07:49
*birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-bjjdjzbpjuawklyu) has joined #techrightsJan 08 07:57
*birkoff has quit (Changing host)Jan 08 07:57
*birkoff (birkoff@unaffiliated/birkoff) has joined #techrightsJan 08 07:57
*birkoff has quit (Changing host)Jan 08 07:57
*birkoff (birkoff@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-bjjdjzbpjuawklyu) has joined #techrightsJan 08 07:57
*search_social has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)Jan 08 08:07
*search_social ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 08:11
schestowitz 08 08:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Why We Do ‘InteLeaks’ (and a Call For Further Input/Contributions) | TechrightsJan 08 08:13
schestowitzwill do next part todayJan 08 08:13
schestowitzconnection still slow hereJan 08 08:13
schestowitzvery, very slow. Downstream also.Jan 08 08:13
schestowitzBT is not coping Jan 08 08:13
*liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)Jan 08 08:24
*notanamber ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 08:30
*acer-box____ (~acer-box@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #techrightsJan 08 08:32
*liberty_box ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 08:33
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 08:38
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 08:43
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 09:08
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 09:15
Techrights-sec     Jan 08 09:31
Techrights-secCo-conspirators blocking removalJan 08 09:31
Techrights-sec]Jan 08 09:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Vice President Pence opposes using 25th amendment to remove Trump: Business Insider, NY Times | ReutersJan 08 09:31
*rianne_ ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 09:40
*asusbox ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 09:40
*rianne has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Jan 08 09:43
*asusbox2 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)Jan 08 09:43
Techrights-sec 08 09:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | What Is the 25th Amendment, Who Is Calling for It? Donald Trump Removal Urged After Capitol ChaosJan 08 09:49
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 09:54
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 10:03
vZS1The filesharing problem has effectively been solved by FTP, BitTorrent, and IPFS. All these services are a bunch of data mining ploys.Jan 08 10:07
vZS1I don't know if you remember Firefox Send but that got wrapped up by Mozilla really quickJan 08 10:08
vZS1Everyone should have an SBC at homeJan 08 10:31
vZS1You can just share stuff privately over SSH, if you don't want P2P.Jan 08 10:31
vZS1They're affordable and you actually own the damn deviceJan 08 10:32
*mmu_man ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 10:39
*abarr has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)Jan 08 10:52
*abarr (aplsm@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kzimmermann) has joined #techrightsJan 08 10:52
*abarr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)Jan 08 10:58
*abarr (aplsm@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/kzimmermann) has joined #techrightsJan 08 10:59
*vZS1_2 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 11:03
*CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrightsJan 08 11:05
Ariadne 08 12:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Mark Renny (@MarkRenny1): "I predict it will be like this:" | nitterJan 08 12:13
XRevan86Ariadne: Rather stupid, innit?Jan 08 12:18
schestowitzneee neee neeeJan 08 12:18
*XRevan86 loved it.Jan 08 12:18
XRevan86 (cast scientes)Jan 08 12:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Eoin. (@eoinburgin): "This guy really just typed 'Georgia flag' into Amazon and clicked on the top result" | nitterJan 08 12:19
CrystalMathLOLJan 08 12:21
CrystalMathmaybe he's georgian though? :PJan 08 12:21
CrystalMaththey're saying the democrats who win in GA are communists....Jan 08 12:22
XRevan86CrystalMath: That would be… unlikely.Jan 08 12:22
CrystalMathyou know, that isn't impossibleJan 08 12:22
CrystalMathafter all, Stalin was from Georgia toJan 08 12:22
CrystalMath*tooJan 08 12:22
schestowitzGeorgia is from StalinJan 08 12:24
schestowitzand in Soviet RussiaJan 08 12:24
CrystalMathi was making a joke :)Jan 08 12:25
CrystalMathanother Georgia the country / GA USA punJan 08 12:25
XRevan86Georgia was part of the Russian Empire. Technically not of "Soviet Russia".Jan 08 12:25
XRevan86unless that equals to USSR fullyJan 08 12:25
schestowitzx 08 12:28
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Factbox: Who is Julian Assange? | ReutersJan 08 12:28
schestowitz# more revisionismJan 08 12:28
CrystalMathTrump can still pardon himJan 08 12:31
vZS1_2schestowitz: Maybe TR should do its own timeline of the Assange story.Jan 08 12:32
CrystalMath 08 12:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 404 @ )Jan 08 12:32
CrystalMath 08 12:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trump pardons Blackwater war criminals — but ignores Julian Assange, who exposed U.S. war crimes | Salon.comJan 08 12:32
CrystalMathsadJan 08 12:32
vZS1_2schestowitz: I've also pulled the latest binary release of GNU IceCat. It's working pretty well. The controls are very convenient (mostly in GUI form). You should check it out.Jan 08 12:33
vZS1_2You can turn JS on/off in the GUI and it's based on wildcards so it's pretty easy to understand what's going on.Jan 08 12:35
vZS1_2There's also a very neat third-party request blocker which is a great way to see exactly what else is being pinged when you load a pageJan 08 12:36
vZS1_2They've implemented this as an addon to keep things modularJan 08 12:36
vZS1_2Overall, very impressed.Jan 08 12:36
vZS1_2I've tried logging in to some services which require a "trusted" browser and IceCat manages to sneak through.Jan 08 12:38
schestowitzvZS1_2: advantages over falkon other than gecko?Jan 08 12:39
schestowitzvZS1_2: re Assange, we did some articles about himJan 08 12:40
schestowitzI know the real timeline very well, I was like friends with himJan 08 12:40
schestowitz(not spoken for years, for obvious reasons, except his mom)Jan 08 12:40
schestowitzHis mom likes and trusts me... since like a decade backJan 08 12:40
schestowitzvZS1_2: maybe a fast way tro address the above is do a quick video rebutting the "official" timelines from CNN, Canada's oligarchy (Reuters) etc.Jan 08 12:42
vZS1_2>schestowitz vZS1_2: advantages over falkon other than gecko?Jan 08 12:43
vZS1_2Idk, tbh.Jan 08 12:43
schestowitzI am doing a video about FSF atmJan 08 12:43
schestowitzone take, uploading nowJan 08 12:43
schestowitzthis can take 6 hours to finish uploadingJan 08 12:43
schestowitzvZS1_2: I tried gnu icecat when it was newJan 08 12:43
schestowitzmaybe 2007Jan 08 12:43
vZS1_2My main issue is accessing some services which falkon and Konqueror can't. That's solved now.Jan 08 12:43
schestowitzmaybe even 2006Jan 08 12:43
schestowitzfalkon can fake its identityJan 08 12:44
schestowitzto fool http header sniffersJan 08 12:44
Ariadne[05:31:36] <CrystalMath> Trump can still pardon himJan 08 12:44
Ariadneat this point anything trump does is going straight to /dev/nullJan 08 12:44
Ariadnethe military and everyone else is now listening to penceJan 08 12:45
mjg59Pardons are a constitutional authority, unless his constitutional status has changed he still canJan 08 12:46
vZS1_2Idk how well IceCat supports WebRTC stuff, but it seems to partially support some things.Jan 08 12:46
XRevan86CrystalMath: Another explanation is that this may be intentional, but that is also… unlikely.Jan 08 12:47
vZS1_2>schestowitz vZS1_2: maybe a fast way tro address the above is do a quick video rebutting the "official" timelines from CNN, Canada's oligarchy (Reuters) etc.Jan 08 12:47
vZS1_2Sounds like a good idea.Jan 08 12:47
vZS1_2A quick image would help.Jan 08 12:48
CrystalMathAriadne: Trump is still president until January 20thJan 08 12:48
vZS1_2All these "summary" timelines are embedding things that fit their agenda. And no links to official sources and judgements.Jan 08 12:49
mjg59CrystalMath: That's the default, not a guaranteeJan 08 12:50
AriadneCrystalMath: yes, and nobody is actually following his ordersJan 08 12:50
AriadneCrystalMath: he is president in name only at this pointJan 08 12:50
vZS1_2A "news-free" timeline from TR would do a lot of good.Jan 08 12:50
CrystalMathwell Trump is still president until he gets removed or january 20thJan 08 12:50
CrystalMathhe can still pardon Assange faster than they vote to remove him :PJan 08 12:50
CrystalMathbut he should have done so yesterdayJan 08 12:50
Ariadnea pardon is just an executive orderJan 08 12:50
mjg59schestowitz: You can definitely spend time defending a rapist if you wantJan 08 12:51
Ariadnethey can ignore itJan 08 12:51
CrystalMathAriadne: i don't think soJan 08 12:51
mjg59Ariadne: Constitutionally, not reallyJan 08 12:51
CrystalMathi think executive orders by a legal president do matterJan 08 12:51
Ariadnemjg59: trueJan 08 12:52
mjg59You'd need the legislative branch to but into the ideaJan 08 12:52
Ariadnewe are in a pretty strange situation atmJan 08 12:52
schestowitzmjg59: piss offJan 08 12:52
CrystalMathTrump condemned the attack on congress and concededJan 08 12:52
mjg59Where by legislative I mean judicial, and by but I mean buyJan 08 12:52
CrystalMathso he is going away, that's for sureJan 08 12:52
AriadneCrystalMath: the attack he causedJan 08 12:52
mjg59schestowitz: strong counterargumentJan 08 12:52
CrystalMathbut before he goes, he could pardon AssangeJan 08 12:52
schestowitzyou make a false accusationJan 08 12:52
schestowitzagainst JulianJan 08 12:52
Ariadneif i were assange i would not want to be pardoned by trump :)))Jan 08 12:53
schestowitzand indirectly against meJan 08 12:53
schestowitzyou work for war criminals, mjg59Jan 08 12:53
schestowitzand then you call people who expose crimes "rapists"Jan 08 12:53
vZS1_2schestowitz: stop feeding the troll and let's focus on the real problem.Jan 08 12:53
schestowitzand say the same about those who defend the exposersJan 08 12:53
schestowitzso yes, PISS OFFJan 08 12:53
mjg59schestowitz: Dude's directly and credibly accused of raping someoneJan 08 12:53
*schestowitz ignores Google trollJan 08 12:53
mjg59You keep saying you ignore me, and then you write about me insteadJan 08 12:54
Ariadnehow about thisJan 08 12:54
Ariadnewe get schestowitz and mjg59 in the octogonJan 08 12:54
AriadneUFC styleJan 08 12:54
schestowitzhe doesn't stand a chanceJan 08 12:54
mjg59Oh man I am physically feebleJan 08 12:54
schestowitzI'm not his weight divisonJan 08 12:54
mjg59But hey if I need to take a beating in order to call Assange a rapist I'm ok with thatJan 08 12:55
vZS1_2schestowitz: The Assange PDFs are pretty popular btw. I had a look at the IPFS logs and there were several thousand requests for it.Jan 08 12:55
schestowitz 08 12:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Images: BodyshotsJan 08 12:55
CrystalMathmjg59: that's not what america's charging him for, thoughJan 08 12:55
mjg59Yeah, the US case is bullshit and he should be free nowJan 08 12:55
CrystalMathmjg59: Trump can't pardon him over the sweden thingJan 08 12:55
Ariadneyes, the US should pardon him and then he should go to sweden and resolve his affairs thereJan 08 12:56
CrystalMathhe can only do that regarding the bullcrap case in the US, yesJan 08 12:56
Ariadnebut if i were him, i mean, bluntly a trump pardon is not a good lookJan 08 12:56
schestowitzI will do a video about the Assange timelineJan 08 12:56
mjg59Assange is a rapist who avoided being found guilty and as a result should not be subject to punishment by the stateJan 08 12:56
schestowitzI know AP and CNN have timelines alsoJan 08 12:56
schestowitzhighly misleading onesJan 08 12:56
vZS1_2I've sent the logs back to /dev/null now though. I don't have enough disk on my node to keep that running for long. The DHT produces an immense amount of log data.Jan 08 12:56
mjg59There's zero reason to keep him in restricted custodyJan 08 12:57
mjg59Doesn't change the fact that he's a rapistJan 08 12:57
mjg59Assange has been selectively prosecuted, subject to inhumane treatment and should be free nowJan 08 13:00
mjg59And also he's a rapistJan 08 13:00
mjg59I've got no problem believing all these thigns at the same timeJan 08 13:00
Ariadnebasically thatJan 08 13:00
mjg59The strange thing is believing that because he's a political target he must be innocent of everything elseJan 08 13:01
Ariadneat this point its all moot anywayJan 08 13:03
schestowitz[12:32] <vZS1_2> schestowitz: Maybe TR should do its own timeline of the Assange story.Jan 08 13:03
schestowitzI have just reviewed the link aboveJan 08 13:03
Ariadnewhatever happened happened a decade agoJan 08 13:03
schestowitzit's really blatantly wrongJan 08 13:03
schestowitzomits a ton of staffJan 08 13:03
schestowitzto focus on womenJan 08 13:03
schestowitzand nothing about what wikileaks showedJan 08 13:03
schestowitzI will do a rebuttal in video in a momentJan 08 13:03
schestowitzI'm off work till MondayJan 08 13:03
vZS1_2Which is why we need a TR piece to set it rightJan 08 13:03
mjg59When discussing whether or not he's a rapist, it makes sense to focus on the women he rapedJan 08 13:03
mjg59And not on the other things he didJan 08 13:04
schestowitzplease ignore mjg59, he's an incendiary troll like Donald TrumpJan 08 13:04
mjg59If you want to say he's a rapist who also did good work, sure, that's fineJan 08 13:04
mjg59I wouldn't disagreeJan 08 13:04
mjg59Collatoral Murder was important workJan 08 13:04
schestowitzvZS1_2: rightJan 08 13:05
mjg59I'm glad that was releasedJan 08 13:05
Ariadnein fairness, it's a little more gray than "he is a rapist"Jan 08 13:05
schestowitzi know what to sayJan 08 13:05
schestowitzmental notesJan 08 13:05
Ariadnein most jurisdictions what happened wouldn't be defined that wayJan 08 13:05
Ariadneand sweden went through some gymnastics to make a very flimsy caseJan 08 13:05
mjg59Ariadne: Eh conditional consent is something that's understood in an increasing number of jurisdictionsJan 08 13:06
Ariadnei would say he is a womanizer though, and i've seen that for myselfJan 08 13:06
mjg59Also depressingly transphobic, which I found surprisingJan 08 13:06
Ariadneyes, that lead to some of his falling out with indymedia peoplJan 08 13:06
AriadneeJan 08 13:06
CrystalMathi agree that Assange is transphobic, but that's not unfixableJan 08 13:07
CrystalMathi think he just doesn't understand itJan 08 13:07
Ariadnenor is the conditional consent violations he didJan 08 13:07
Ariadnehe can and should still make things right with those womenJan 08 13:07
Ariadneand if he did, that would likely be the end of it tbhJan 08 13:08
mjg59I think any degree of acceptance of misbehaviour on his part would have made a lot of things go awayJan 08 13:09
Ariadnebut he used to go around wowing women with his computer skills, and took that up to 11 with wikileaks, trying to project a "sexy revolutionary" imageJan 08 13:09
Ariadnehis work is important, but he is a flawed personJan 08 13:09
mjg59I'm not certain that the world is a better place as a result of Assange, but I wouldn't disagree with people who claim itJan 08 13:10
Ariadneand in "hacker" circles, the ability to say "wow, i did something fucked up" and learn from it is actually highly valuedJan 08 13:10
Ariadneat least in the circles i participate in anywayJan 08 13:10
mjg59But treating him as a hero who has done no wrong is massively inappropriateJan 08 13:10
Ariadneyeah, he's more of a zefram cochrane (sorry for the star trek reference, but it is an apt comparison)Jan 08 13:10
mjg59And any timeline of his behaviour needs to include him actually doing bad thingsJan 08 13:10
CrystalMathidk, it's easier to imagine Assange as a shining angelJan 08 13:10
CrystalMathall people are flawedJan 08 13:11
Ariadneeasy, but not realisticJan 08 13:11
CrystalMathbut few people do as much good as julian assangeJan 08 13:11
Ariadneit is possible to do a lot of good, while also doing things that are not goodJan 08 13:11
CrystalMathsure, but also note that lots of people do bad things all the timeJan 08 13:12
mjg59To be clear, Chelsea Manning is a friendJan 08 13:12
CrystalMathjust not extraordinarily badJan 08 13:12
mjg59And I support what she didJan 08 13:12
Ariadnei don't support her use of emojiJan 08 13:13
CrystalMathChelsea Manning is another shining angelJan 08 13:13
mjg59Well sure we're not all millennialsJan 08 13:13
Ariadnethe difference is chelsea manning is actually an angelJan 08 13:13
Ariadneshe is just a great person (who uses emoji excessively)Jan 08 13:13
Ariadneassange is an egomanical asshole IRLJan 08 13:14
CrystalMathi'm sure she crossed the street on a red light at least onceJan 08 13:14
CrystalMathbut that doesn't change the fact that she's a great personJan 08 13:14
Ariadne(this doesn't mean that he deserves to be targeted by the US government for reporting on how fucked up the US government is)Jan 08 13:15
CrystalMathi once crossed a highway, that's probably illegalJan 08 13:16
CrystalMathand dangerous as hellJan 08 13:16
Ariadnei have to cross a highway every day to check my mailJan 08 13:16
CrystalMathyeah but i meanJan 08 13:16
CrystalMathoutside of townJan 08 13:16
Ariadneadmittedly it is only a 2-lane highwayJan 08 13:16
Ariadnei don't live in a townJan 08 13:16
CrystalMathand it had those protective barriers on the sideJan 08 13:17
CrystalMathbut short ones, that can be jumpedJan 08 13:17
CrystalMathbut ever since i was attacked by those stray dogs, i think twice before i decide to take walks far outside of townJan 08 13:18
Ariadnei live in the middle of nowhere, off Wyoming State Highway 130Jan 08 13:19
CrystalMathinterestingJan 08 13:19
CrystalMathi'd like to live in the countryside, it's probably betterJan 08 13:19
Ariadneconsidering i am dependent on Elon Musk for usable internet ...Jan 08 13:21
Ariadneit has its pros and consJan 08 13:21
Ariadnebeing able to go hiking in the wilderness by just going outside is pretty great thoJan 08 13:22
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 13:29
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 13:29
mjg59schestowitz: seems like an accurate representation of your position here?Jan 08 13:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: @mjg59 When someone is labelled rapist for merely not wearing a condom - or a condom breaking - how does that help rape victims?Jan 08 13:31
mjg59Given that, well, y'know, you said itJan 08 13:34
mjg59schestowitz: If you want to say that someone who has sex with someone without a condom after saying that they'd wear a condom isn't a rapist then that's certainly a conversation that exists in the wider topic of what consent actually isJan 08 13:36
mjg59schestowitz: But in Sweden it apparently does count as rape, so it arguably then turns into an argument about whether Swedish law is legitimateJan 08 13:37
Ariadnethats why i think it makes more sense to just discuss the womanizing problem in generalJan 08 13:38
Ariadnethere is also the issue of Sweden pursuing the charges for both women despite at least one of the women responding that they ultimately did not wish to pursue chargesJan 08 13:39
mjg59schestowitz: But being hostile to the suggestion that he's a rapist does not do a great job of showing empathy for his alleged victimsJan 08 13:40
Ariadnei think the rape charges largely came about as a result of a phishing expeditionJan 08 13:41
CrystalMathi still think that there's a possibility that it's a conspiracyJan 08 13:41
mjg59Ariadne: Yeah I'm not a fan of state persecution in principleJan 08 13:41
mjg59The entire carceral system is fucked upJan 08 13:42
Ariadneat least my understanding is that police interviewed the women about his activities with him, and then decided to slap him with rape charges, despite that not being requested by either womanJan 08 13:42
Ariadnemy understanding could be wrong on that, but that's what i've gathered based on following the caseJan 08 13:42
mjg59SoJan 08 13:43
mjg59The vast majority of rape cases are never criminally prosecutedJan 08 13:44
mjg59And even those that are are mostly not convictedJan 08 13:44
AriadneyesJan 08 13:44
mjg59Outside political motiviations, do I think Assange would have been prosecuted? No.Jan 08 13:44
mjg59Based on descriptions of his behaviour, do I think Assange is a rapist? Yes.Jan 08 13:45
*smnthermes has quit (Quit: Gateway shutdown)Jan 08 13:45
Ariadnethat's fairJan 08 13:45
mjg59But the moral here isn't that Assange is innocent, it's that rape isn't prosecuted as much as it should beJan 08 13:45
Ariadnewell, it is a question really.  at least one of the swedish cases i read into, the alleged victim did not feel she was raped, but that she was miffed about his lack of condom use when he said he was using oneJan 08 13:46
mjg59Studies of US college students on this sort of topic revealed that something like 10% of women thought they'd been raped, but if given a questionaire that described the legal standard then the answers turned out to be closer to 30%Jan 08 13:48
Ariadnei guess in the strongest sense, that is still a rape (in the form of a consent violation), but not severe enough a case to make involving police desirableJan 08 13:48
mjg59Ariadne: I think that's an entirely supportable positionJan 08 13:49
Ariadneyes, that's an issue too.  what the legal system defines as rape is not necessarily what most people think of as rape (a narrower subset)Jan 08 13:49
Ariadnethats why i prefer to say 'womanizer', because its something i can back with direct experience and observationJan 08 13:53
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 13:54
Ariadnewhen people hear rapist, they assume things that did not happen in the Assange casesJan 08 13:54
Ariadnewhich is likely why schestowitz is defensive, he likely assumes the same implicationsJan 08 13:54
Ariadneif it were me (which it wouldn't be me, because (a) i know better and (b) Assange is a transphobe), i wouldn't consider that a rape, but i would be irritated.  it would potentially be a relationship-ending event.Jan 08 13:56
schestowitzJust finished the videoJan 08 13:57
schestowitzalmost 50 minutes longJan 08 13:57
Ariadnebut i also know better than to talk to police about my sex life should they come to the door asking about my sex life with a wanted personJan 08 13:58
Ariadnethen again, i live in the US, and many Europeans are quite naive about the StateJan 08 13:59
mjg59Ariadne: Yeah, the idea that rape is violent or involves a stranger is very embedded in social analysisJan 08 14:01
mjg59But the reality is that most rapes aren't violent and involve someone known to the victimJan 08 14:01
Ariadnethats why i describe Assange's actions as womanizing :)Jan 08 14:02
mjg59So spending time defending people against credible accusations of rape tends to enforce the idea that the second category isn't actually rapeJan 08 14:02
mjg59Even if it's a violation of consentJan 08 14:02
Ariadnewomanizing is understood by most people to be the second category, and it still caries social stigmaJan 08 14:03
mjg59So falling asleep with someone and then waking up to find them havng sex with you would, without additional contextual consent, not be okJan 08 14:04
Ariadnewell, that's rape, but that's not what happened with assangeJan 08 14:04
mjg59Yeah, but then we end up talking about what consent isJan 08 14:05
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 14:05
mjg59And people can definitely end up on different sides of that lineJan 08 14:05
Ariadnefor some people, that is actually a fetishJan 08 14:06
Ariadne(waking up to sex, that is)Jan 08 14:07
mjg59But going flat out with the assertion that Assange's behaviour couldn't have been rape is past that lineJan 08 14:07
Ariadnethat's not *my* position :PJan 08 14:08
mjg59It depends on what was negotiated between themJan 08 14:08
mjg59Ariadne: Oh gosh no sorry I don't want to imply thatJan 08 14:08
Ariadnemy position is that assange did fucked up things, but those fucked up things weren't severe enough to warrant involvement of the stateJan 08 14:08
mjg59schestowitz: Anyway ^ is a nuanced conversation and you should take that into account when talking about AssangeJan 08 14:09
Ariadne(this is different than ioerror, who has violently raped people)Jan 08 14:10
mjg59YupJan 08 14:10
Techrights-sec 08 14:11
Techrights-sec 08 14:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Larry Hogan, Adam Kinzinger have called for Trump’s removal - VoxJan 08 14:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | The Insurrection Was PredictableJan 08 14:11
mjg59Although I don't want to push into that /too/ hard - one of Jake's victims I've spoken to has definitely categorised Assange in the same spaceJan 08 14:11
mjg59And I think people could definitely draw a distinction if they wantedJan 08 14:11
mjg59But given a spectrum, people will draw deliniations in different placesJan 08 14:12
Ariadneassange has somewhat of a similar reputation, but i will say that ioerror took things to a larger extremeJan 08 14:12
Ariadnei wouldn't find myself asleep in the same room as either of themJan 08 14:13
Ariadneno wayJan 08 14:13
Ariadneassange has other problems, like encouraging people to leak things without making sure they can safely do soJan 08 14:14
schestowitzAriadne: you have met neither in personJan 08 14:14
schestowitzyou based it on things you read onlineJan 08 14:14
Ariadneno i base it on years of working in the same communitiesJan 08 14:14
schestowitzyou met neitherJan 08 14:14
mjg59schestowitz: I'm basing my opinions on people I trust who have met bothJan 08 14:14
schestowitz[14:14] <Ariadne> assange has other problems, like encouraging people to leak things without making sure they can safely do soJan 08 14:14
schestowitzCorprorate Media talking pointJan 08 14:15
mjg59haha god you are such a piece of shitJan 08 14:15
Ariadneit may be, but its also trueJan 08 14:15
schestowitzliterally repeating US indictmentJan 08 14:15
Ariadnehe literally set up chelsea for failureJan 08 14:15
schestowitzChlesea refutes you on this!Jan 08 14:15
schestowitzShe repeatedly said Julian did NOT encourage or pressure her to leak moreJan 08 14:15
schestowitzno, he did notJan 08 14:16
schestowitzChelsea didJan 08 14:16
schestowitzby speaking to @6Jan 08 14:16
schestowitzwho is now dead BTWJan 08 14:16
schestowitzconfessing to a fraudJan 08 14:16
schestowitzwho likely worked as undercover moleJan 08 14:16
schestowitzand then Kevin Poulson 'reporting' on itJan 08 14:16
mjg59Also, notable that you turn up now rather than during the conversation about how you're defending a rapistJan 08 14:16
Ariadnei mean, i literally do work in the same spaces as they doJan 08 14:17
mjg59But you'd rather turn up to defend that rapist's behaviour in another spaceJan 08 14:17
schestowitzbut you base your views on people whom you never metJan 08 14:17
Ariadneand, actually, i have been to noisebridge and have talked to ioerrorJan 08 14:17
schestowitzwhile weaponised media is directed at bothJan 08 14:17
mjg59Yeah, I've met JakeJan 08 14:17
schestowitzinc. Debian issuing a lie about ioerrorJan 08 14:17
mjg59schestowitz: Which lie?Jan 08 14:17
schestowitzthe lie if refuted by leaked emailsJan 08 14:17
schestowitz*isJan 08 14:18
schestowitzAriadne: when you talked to him did he do or say something perverse?Jan 08 14:18
schestowitzI spoke to him tooJan 08 14:18
schestowitzdidn't sense anything oddJan 08 14:18
schestowitzhe linked to techrights numerous timesJan 08 14:18
mjg59I'm literally engaged to someone that Jake rapedJan 08 14:19
mjg59Please do not give me this bullshitJan 08 14:19
Ariadneand to be clear, ioerror did important work tooJan 08 14:19
mjg59He also raped an ex of mineJan 08 14:19
mjg59schestowitz: Have you met or spoken to his victims?Jan 08 14:20
Ariadnebut yes, i know people who decided to sleep in the same bed and had a bad timeJan 08 14:20
mjg59schestowitz: Are you in a position to discount them?Jan 08 14:20
schestowitzAriadne: why share a bed?Jan 08 14:21
schestowitznot enough beds?Jan 08 14:21
schestowitzpoverty?Jan 08 14:21
mjg59Hahahah oh god you're awfulJan 08 14:21
Ariadnenot engaged to any of them, but "don't share a bed with ioerror" is not exactly a secret in the cypherpunk communityJan 08 14:21
schestowitzwho shares a  bed?Jan 08 14:22
schestowitzmaybe it's a cultural differences thingJan 08 14:22
mjg59schestowitz: Sharing a bed isn't constnt to sexJan 08 14:22
schestowitzyou don't just share a bed with a "mate"Jan 08 14:22
mjg59You fucking piece of shitJan 08 14:22
schestowitzeven in hotels you can choose a two-bed setepJan 08 14:22
schestowitzthey have a special name for thatJan 08 14:22
mjg59Rape apologistJan 08 14:22
CrystalMathin all honesty, i think friends can share a bed and not have sexJan 08 14:23
Ariadne^Jan 08 14:23
CrystalMatheven if the friends have genders such that fits their sexual orientationJan 08 14:23
schestowitzWhen i was in washington I was in the same room with a colleague, but there were two separate bedsJan 08 14:23
Ariadneyes, that's idealJan 08 14:23
Ariadnebut sometimes it doesn't work out that wayJan 08 14:23
Ariadneand you have to come up with plan BJan 08 14:23
CrystalMathdefinitely, although it might not save you from snoring, still :PJan 08 14:23
Ariadnewhich involves sharing a bedJan 08 14:24
Ariadnehotels for example have more single-bed rooms than double-bed roomsJan 08 14:24
mjg59I have successfully slept in the same bed as someone without having sex with themJan 08 14:24
Ariadneme tooJan 08 14:24
schestowitzThe only person of the same gender I shared a bed with was my dad... when I was a little kid and had had a bad dreamJan 08 14:24
mjg59It's not hard!Jan 08 14:24
mjg59You just don't have sex with them!Jan 08 14:24
schestowitztake 'twin' roomJan 08 14:24
schestowitzproblems would be fewerJan 08 14:24
mjg59Under normal (non-COVID) circumstances I meet many people a day who I don't have sex with!Jan 08 14:25
schestowitzbtw, jesus shared a bed with manJan 08 14:25
schestowitzbut don't tell churchgoersJan 08 14:25
mjg59What does gender have to do with this?Jan 08 14:25
CrystalMathi wouldn't really want to share a bed someone, not with my tendency to cuddle sheets while asleepJan 08 14:25
CrystalMath*with someoneJan 08 14:25
Ariadneanyway schestowitz a lot of people working as FOSS developers are actually brokeJan 08 14:25
schestowitztake twin setupJan 08 14:26
CrystalMath(i'm asexual and not interested in sex anyway)Jan 08 14:26
Ariadnelike, the ones writing software that actually mattersJan 08 14:26
CrystalMathbut still, i cuddle sheets while asleep :/Jan 08 14:26
Ariadneso, this happens a lotJan 08 14:26
schestowitzAriadne: stay in hostels with bunk bedsJan 08 14:26
schestowitzcheaper  and not sharedJan 08 14:26
Ariadnethey do that tooJan 08 14:26
schestowitzpeople don't just fall on you at nightJan 08 14:26
mjg59schestowitz: Stop apologising for rapistsJan 08 14:26
Ariadnebut, sometimes what happens isJan 08 14:26
mjg59schestowitz: Stop implying that their victims are complicitJan 08 14:26
Ariadne"oh, i am coming to give a talk"Jan 08 14:26
Ariadne"oh ok you can stay at my place"Jan 08 14:26
mjg59schestowitz: Sharing a bed with someone isn't consentJan 08 14:26
Ariadnei've literally shared beds with people who got raped by jakeJan 08 14:27
CrystalMathwhat if Appelbaum has sexsomnia though?Jan 08 14:27
Ariadnesometimes people get togetherJan 08 14:27
Ariadneand hack on stuffJan 08 14:27
Ariadneand then they get tiredJan 08 14:27
mjg59CrystalMath: That's a great reason for them to refuse to share a bed with someoneJan 08 14:28
CrystalMathsexsomnia is a real disorder, and he would be totally unaware of itJan 08 14:28
CrystalMathwhat if he didn't know back then that he does it?Jan 08 14:28
AriadnewellJan 08 14:28
mjg59CrystalMath: He used that excuse more than onceJan 08 14:28
Ariadneok, i'll say thisJan 08 14:28
schestowitz[14:27] <Ariadne> and then they get tiredJan 08 14:28
mjg59CrystalMath: And using it more than once is an admission of being aware of itJan 08 14:28
Ariadneand it will probably annoy mjg59 a bitJan 08 14:28
CrystalMathreally?Jan 08 14:28
AriadnebutJan 08 14:28
CrystalMathi didn't know he talked about it at allJan 08 14:29
Ariadnethat sphere of my world anyway, uses a lot of mollyJan 08 14:29
schestowitzThey can take turn, one uses the bed for half a day, then the otherJan 08 14:29
Ariadnelike literally mdma, techno and hacking out codeJan 08 14:29
schestowitzI'd never sleep with someone in the same bed unless in a relatinoshipJan 08 14:29
schestowitzbeds are not too hard to findJan 08 14:29
mjg59Ariadne: yeah, there's drugs in parts of the sceneJan 08 14:29
mjg59CrystalMath: I know more than one person he's used that excuse withJan 08 14:30
schestowitz[14:28] <Ariadne> and it will probably annoy mjg59 a bitJan 08 14:30
schestowitzwho is this mjg59?Jan 08 14:30
Ariadnethat said, even fucked up on molly you can still generally conduct yourself without raping someoneJan 08 14:30
schestowitzOh, maybe in my shitbucketJan 08 14:30
mjg59Ariadne: Right? I've spent time with people on mdma who have somehow avoided having sex with meJan 08 14:30
Ariadnehell, mdma is how half of freenode's services implementation got codedJan 08 14:31
Ariadne^_^Jan 08 14:31
mjg59Anyway Roy is free to defend a rapist if he wantsJan 08 14:31
CrystalMatheveryone deserves a defense lawyerJan 08 14:31
mjg59And people are also free to point out that Roy is defending a rapistJan 08 14:32
CrystalMathso i'm glad that Roy is asking some questions in Jacob's defense, i myself am not sure that Jake is guiltyJan 08 14:32
Ariadneoh he's guiltyJan 08 14:32
mjg59And point out that he's got a pattern of defending rapistsJan 08 14:32
CrystalMathi'm just glad i'm not a real judge, because this is a tough one, like most casesJan 08 14:32
CrystalMathbut i would be really upset if nobody said anything in someone's defenseJan 08 14:33
CrystalMaththere's no cut and dry caseJan 08 14:33
mjg59I'm fine with a criminal defence!Jan 08 14:33
CrystalMathmany of the people that accused Jake were in fact in a relationship with him, for example (but not all as far as i know)Jan 08 14:33
CrystalMaththe court of public opinion is still a court that has consequences, and defense is needed there tooJan 08 14:34
Ariadneyeah, that is not a relationship as you might thinkJan 08 14:34
Ariadnefwiw i don't think jake's intentions were necessarily maliciousJan 08 14:34
Ariadnewhat i do think is that he has raped some peopleJan 08 14:35
CrystalMathidk, rape sounds like a very malicious act, usually very selfish, i don't believe in benevolent rapeJan 08 14:35
mjg59CrystalMath: Of the victims of Jake I know, one was in a relationship with him. He raped her anyway.Jan 08 14:35
Ariadnei know of a few cases where it was polycule-related issuesJan 08 14:36
Ariadneand i know of a few cases where everyone was fucked up on mollyJan 08 14:36
Ariadnestill rape thoughJan 08 14:36
CrystalMathbut how can you be sure?Jan 08 14:37
Ariadnesome advice to prodigal hackers: keep your dick in your pants when the molly comes outJan 08 14:37
CrystalMathmaybe drugs make people misremember thingsJan 08 14:37
mjg59CrystalMath: If someone tells you to stop having sex with them, and you continue having sex with them, that's rapeJan 08 14:37
Ariadnewhich is probably why you shouldn't do anything that could be misrememberedJan 08 14:37
CrystalMathmjg59: indeedJan 08 14:37
CrystalMathAriadne: then never do anything ever, because everything can be misrememberedJan 08 14:37
Ariadneyou know what i meanJan 08 14:38
CrystalMathyeah but that's too wide of a definition for guiltJan 08 14:38
mjg59CrystalMath: And that's what's described in 08 14:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | He said, they said – hypatia dot caJan 08 14:38
CrystalMathif you just believe victims every time, you can put innocent people in a lot of troubleJan 08 14:39
CrystalMathso that's not the right way IMOJan 08 14:40
CrystalMathi believe in innocent until proven guilty, and "better let 999 criminals go free than hurt one innocent"Jan 08 14:40
Ariadneyou believe victims until you either prove or disprove their assertionsJan 08 14:40
Ariadnebelieving victims does not mean you don't fact check themJan 08 14:40
CrystalMathbut that would be an assumption of guilt on the part of the accusedJan 08 14:40
Ariadnethe "believing victims" issue is that victims go to police and police send the complaint to /dev/nullJan 08 14:41
mjg59CrystalMath: Ok so the Swedish government is innocent of improperly accusing AssangeJan 08 14:41
Ariadnewithout even investigatingJan 08 14:41
CrystalMathmjg59: yes, in a way, we have no proof of the conspiracyJan 08 14:41
CrystalMathwe just have a hunchJan 08 14:41
Ariadnei should also say that particular sceneJan 08 14:41
CrystalMathAriadne: that's really crappy, but when we fix it, we should fix it to make it fair, not unfair in the other directionJan 08 14:41
Ariadneis wellJan 08 14:41
Ariadnea lot of people are more than friends in that sceneJan 08 14:42
Ariadnehowever, they do generally make their boundaries knownJan 08 14:42
Ariadnelike basically everything involving jake is a giant messJan 08 14:43
Ariadnewith that saidJan 08 14:43
Ariadneif somebody says "stop" then you should stopJan 08 14:43
CrystalMathhonestly, i know people who did not press charges on someone just because society is very harsh towards criminalsJan 08 14:43
*smnthermes ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 14:43
mjg59CrystalMath: Yup, which is why many of Jake's victims haven't taken it to courtJan 08 14:43
CrystalMath(but in all honesty... sweden is not)Jan 08 14:43
Ariadneand Jake is hardly the only prson in that scene who is like thatJan 08 14:44
mjg59Anarchists tend to not be enthusiastic about weaponising the state against someoneJan 08 14:44
Ariadnei can think of several others who would fall on my "never share a bed with" list from that sceneJan 08 14:44
mjg59schestowitz: Anyway I'm sure you'll read this when you process the logs, so just to emphasise you're ignoring multiple people telling you who the people you're defending really areJan 08 14:45
Ariadnebut i've slept in the same bed with plenty of other FOSS people from that scene and nothing has ever happenedJan 08 14:45
Ariadnealso, when i was in SF bay doing things, i had a much different appearanceJan 08 14:46
mjg59schestowitz: And in the process you're blaming victims on the grounds that if they were innocent they'd have made sure there was an extra bed?Jan 08 14:46
Ariadneso Jake not hitting on me means nothingJan 08 14:46
CrystalMathAriadne: Jake is bisexualJan 08 14:46
Ariadneif I talked to Jake with my current looks, he would have hit on meJan 08 14:46
AriadneCrystalMath: yesJan 08 14:46
Ariadnebut, he has certain typesJan 08 14:47
*mcole has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Jan 08 14:47
mjg59schestowitz: So anyway you are obviously free to present a timeline of Assange's behaviour that elides various details, but you are clearly aware that you are doing so with an agendaJan 08 14:47
Ariadneand at the time that i was in SF bay, i was very convinced that a UNIX beard was the path to career successJan 08 14:48
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 14:48
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 14:48
Ariadne(what was i thinking?  i have no idea)Jan 08 14:48
mjg59Ariadne: tbf my job interviews with beards have been more successful than the ones withoutJan 08 14:49
Ariadnei guess what i am trying to say is Jake liks twinksJan 08 14:49
Ariadne(:Jan 08 14:49
CrystalMathoh i seeJan 08 14:49
mjg59(I shave afterwards)Jan 08 14:49
mjg59Yeah Jake may be bi but he skews femme in terms of partnerJan 08 14:50
Ariadne. o O (i await schestowitz telling me i found out about Jake's twink preference in corporate media)Jan 08 14:50
Ariadnefrom 2008 to 2011 i was pretty much not-femmeJan 08 14:51
CrystalMathi had short hair until 2015Jan 08 14:53
Ariadnei did notJan 08 14:53
CrystalMaththough it was still sort of short until 2017Jan 08 14:53
CrystalMathbut, there's one constant, i always have bangsJan 08 14:54
CrystalMaththey're my signature, in a wayJan 08 14:54
Ariadnemjg59: well, the beard was successful in that regard considering i didn't starve to death or die of dissentery out there :PJan 08 14:54
mjg59@zoobabJan 08 14:56
mjg59?Jan 08 14:56
mjg59Hmm new laptop's middle mouse button does not seem perfectJan 08 14:57
*rianne ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 14:58
Ariadnetbh i kind of miss things a decade agoJan 08 15:01
Ariadnehacking on code then being in a giant cuddle pile of cuddles was pretty great tbhJan 08 15:02
mjg59Ariadne: If you were in the bay area scene around then, do you know Andy Isaacson?Jan 08 15:03
*tdemin has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 08 15:04
Ariadnecan't say i doJan 08 15:04
mjg59Ah, guess I met him in 2010, so may be a bit after thatJan 08 15:05
Ariadnethough my particular hack on things plus cuddle pile of cuddles experience was outside the bayJan 08 15:06
mjg59FairJan 08 15:06
Ariadnethat was back and forth between boston and cologneJan 08 15:06
*psymin (~psymin@fsf/member/psymin) has joined #techrightsJan 08 15:07
Ariadnealso in fairness, i don't think anyone wanted to crash jake's career or anything like thatJan 08 15:08
Ariadnei think they just you knowJan 08 15:08
Ariadnewanted him to stop being obtuseJan 08 15:08
Ariadnethe website was meant to be an interventionJan 08 15:09
Ariadnethe idea being "gosh, there's all these people saying i've done fucked up things to them, maybe i should fix that"Jan 08 15:10
AriadnewellJan 08 15:10
Ariadnei should clarify thatJan 08 15:11
Ariadnethe person who contacted Tor HR obviously wanted something to happen thereJan 08 15:11
mjg59Yeah there's a universe where Jake took responsibility for his actions and engaged in community-level reparationsJan 08 15:11
mjg59He, uh, chose otherwiseJan 08 15:11
CrystalMaththen what was up with that ridiculous story that was later retracted by its author?Jan 08 15:11
CrystalMathif it's meant to be an intervention, why was there a false story there?Jan 08 15:12
CrystalMathoh wait a minute i think Ariadne explained thatJan 08 15:12
CrystalMathlast time we had this discussionJan 08 15:12
Ariadnesome stories on there were intentionally fabricated in order to provide cover for everyone involved including jake, yesJan 08 15:12
CrystalMathrightJan 08 15:13
mjg59schestowitz: Re: - clearly shows Pocock being elected to the Fellowship GA seatJan 08 15:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Technology, Citizenship, Democracy and Tyrants | TechrightsJan 08 15:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | And the winner of the election for FSFE's Fellowship GA seat is ... - FSFEJan 08 15:13
CrystalMathAriadne: well, your version of the events seems to check outJan 08 15:13
CrystalMathit all fitsJan 08 15:13
mjg59schestowitz: The claim that Florian Snow was appointed despite the vote is clearly false - there's an 8 month space between the results being published and the mail Pocock citesJan 08 15:14
Ariadneanyway the, for lack of better description, PLUR scene in FOSS is kinda dying outJan 08 15:14
CrystalMathPLUR?Jan 08 15:15
mjg59schestowitz: You should engage in some degree of fact checking of stories you publishJan 08 15:15
AriadneCrystalMath: the people who do molly and hack on shitJan 08 15:15
CrystalMathAriadne: ah, yeah, like the 90s hacker culture diedJan 08 15:15
schestowitzwhat is molly short for?Jan 08 15:15
CrystalMathMDMAJan 08 15:15
schestowitzmolestation?Jan 08 15:15
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 15:15
CrystalMathnoJan 08 15:15
AriadneMDMA yesJan 08 15:15
CrystalMathit's methylenedioxymethamphetamineJan 08 15:15
schestowitzwhat's that?Jan 08 15:16
schestowitzah, okJan 08 15:16
CrystalMatha moleculeJan 08 15:16
schestowitzsome full name of rhe drugJan 08 15:16
mjg59Haha you fucking idiotJan 08 15:16
Ariadnea molecule which makes most people extremely happyJan 08 15:16
mjg59How are you so completely unaware of everythingJan 08 15:16
schestowitzI did not see the words molly and MSMA beforeJan 08 15:16
schestowitzmethylenedioxymethamphetamine - yesJan 08 15:16
mjg59...Jan 08 15:17
schestowitzbut not the first twoJan 08 15:17
schestowitzI never did drugsJan 08 15:17
AriadnebruhJan 08 15:17
schestowitznor will IJan 08 15:17
schestowitzalcohol yes. but not much...Jan 08 15:17
mjg59Dude I've never done molly butJan 08 15:17
MinceR 08 15:17
Ariadnehow do you think the whole GNU project got goingJan 08 15:17
mjg59(As previously mentioned I am extremely feeble)Jan 08 15:17
schestowitzanyway, not on topicJan 08 15:17
schestowitzI'd rather talk about tech tbhJan 08 15:17
schestowitzthe channel is called techrightsJan 08 15:17
mjg59schestowitz: Except you keep ignoring my contributionsJan 08 15:18
CrystalMathMinceR: coke with molly? is that a picture of some girl named Molly drinking Coca Cola? :P </innocence>Jan 08 15:18
MinceRthis is the first time i see MDMA referred to as a performance-enhancing drug, though :>Jan 08 15:18
MinceRCrystalMath: of course, what else could it be? :>Jan 08 15:18
schestowitzperformance has many facetsJan 08 15:18
Ariadnewell i hate to inform you but most of the free software you use today came out of a scene of hippies who also wrote codeJan 08 15:18
schestowitzmaybe it's better when you would otherwise perform homicideJan 08 15:18
AriadneRMS being a hippie who also writes codeJan 08 15:19
schestowitzor suicideJan 08 15:19
MinceRafaik MDMA is not the only drug used by hippies, thoughJan 08 15:19
mjg59Luv 2 straight edge freedomJan 08 15:19
AriadneRMS literally folkdances, you knowJan 08 15:19
Ariadnelike, my grandparents know him from folkdancing, it is pretty wildJan 08 15:19
MinceR:)Jan 08 15:19
AriadneMinceR: indeed notJan 08 15:20
mjg59RMS once trolled ESR by convincing him that there was going to be an orgy in his hotel roomJan 08 15:20
mjg59And ESR just showed up in a bathrobeJan 08 15:20
MinceRlolJan 08 15:20
CrystalMathlolJan 08 15:20
mjg59There's no puritantical aspect to this communityJan 08 15:20
mjg59Never has beenJan 08 15:21
Ariadneyeah well, nobody wants to fuck ESRJan 08 15:21
mjg59Well you say thatJan 08 15:21
mjg59And I'd love to believe itJan 08 15:21
mjg59But evidence suggests it's not entirely trueJan 08 15:21
schestowitzwhy are we talking about sex hereJan 08 15:21
schestowitz[12:28] [Notice] -TechrightsBot-tr to #techrights- Factbox: Who is Julian Assange? | ReutersJan 08 15:22
schestowitzI pasted this linkJan 08 15:22
schestowitzsent from a readerJan 08 15:22
schestowitzand the sex-minded maniac from Google warped the topicJan 08 15:22
Ariadnesex, drugs and software freedomJan 08 15:22
schestowitzsomeone has nothing but sex in the headJan 08 15:22
mjg59Dude I didn't bring up sexJan 08 15:22
mjg59But free software involves a bunch of fuckingJan 08 15:22
mjg59(consensually)Jan 08 15:23
schestowitzmaybe I should report to GoogleJan 08 15:23
Ariadneschestowitz: we were discussing the background that lead up to ioerror's (and to a lesser extent, Assange's) accusations of whatever you wanna call itJan 08 15:23
schestowitzthey have issues with pervertsJan 08 15:23
schestowitzthey hire someJan 08 15:23
mjg59schestowitz: I mean go for itJan 08 15:23
Ariadnemjg59 seems straighter edge than other googlers i knowJan 08 15:23
Ariadnenot that i know mjg59 mind youJan 08 15:23
mjg59schestowitz: Do feel free to report me to SundarJan 08 15:24
schestowitz 08 15:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | GCreep: Google Engineer Stalked Teens, Spied on Chats (Updated)Jan 08 15:24
schestowitzstick to topicJan 08 15:24
mjg59Yeah I'm part of the team that prevents that from happening againJan 08 15:25
schestowitzthis is not sexrightsJan 08 15:25
schestowitzLook at channel topic Jan 08 15:25
schestowitzstick to topicJan 08 15:25
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 15:25
mjg59Free software is tightly associated with sexual liberationJan 08 15:25
*psydroid sets the topic of the channel to sexrights, the place where techrights go to dieJan 08 15:25
CrystalMathshould i register #sexrights?Jan 08 15:25
mjg59Both historically and philisophicallyJan 08 15:25
mjg59Both are bound to personal autonomyJan 08 15:25
schestowitzCrystalMath: feel freeJan 08 15:26
schestowitzI would not dive into itJan 08 15:26
mjg59You can't build a world where one exists without the otherJan 08 15:26
Ariadnedon't tell him about ESR's uhhh, private channel here on freenodeJan 08 15:26
schestowitzsex has nothing to do with techJan 08 15:26
schestowitzgender hasn't , eitherJan 08 15:26
Ariadneit has a lot to do honestlyJan 08 15:26
mjg59Sex has a *lot* to do with techJan 08 15:26
schestowitztech has much to do with human rightsJan 08 15:26
schestowitzsex is a reproductive functionJan 08 15:26
mjg59Oh man you're missing outJan 08 15:26
schestowitzeven animals without tech have sexJan 08 15:26
Ariadnea lot of the software you use today was coded during cuddlefuck parties at FOSDEMJan 08 15:26
schestowitzleave sex to sex channelsJan 08 15:26
Ariadnei guarantee youJan 08 15:26
mjg59Do you realise you can have sex without reproducingJan 08 15:27
schestowitzand stop wasting our timeJan 08 15:27
schestowitzI brought up AssangheJan 08 15:27
CrystalMathi'm asexual actually, but i find the idea of #sexrights kinda funnyJan 08 15:27
schestowitzbecause of journalism and war crimesJan 08 15:27
schestowitzalso online publicationJan 08 15:27
schestowitzpeople who make it about sex should crawl back up the cave they came fromJan 08 15:27
mjg59Yeah we should just ignore the rape stuffJan 08 15:27
*schestowitz back to posting and writingJan 08 15:28
mjg59There's something actually wrong with youJan 08 15:28
CrystalMathwell, maybe there is merit to the idea of focusing only on one thing, to not get spread too thinJan 08 15:30
schestowitzI am writing about FSF at the momentJan 08 15:30
schestowitzand the donation driveJan 08 15:30
schestowitzi need to focus on one thing at a timeJan 08 15:30
schestowitzI think we attarcted some sick people hereJan 08 15:30
schestowitzwhose mind is all fixed on sexual fantasiesJan 08 15:30
schestowitzaffixedJan 08 15:31
schestowitzthey can go to pervy placesJan 08 15:31
schestowitzI want to focus on techJan 08 15:31
schestowitzI never even talk about sex onlineJan 08 15:31
CrystalMath#sexrights is open, i set the topic to "TechRights Gone Wild" :PJan 08 15:31
*psydroid should seize the domain and redirect it to 08 15:31
Ariadneman wait until he finds out that like half of foss developers are also furriesJan 08 15:31
CrystalMathwhy is that so funny to meJan 08 15:31
schestowitzgo for it if you want, CrystalMath, maybe Ivanka and dad will join Jan 08 15:32
schestowitz"the right to touch my daughter"Jan 08 15:32
CrystalMathsorry schestowitz, i didn't mean to make fun of techrightsJan 08 15:32
CrystalMathi just thought that what you said was kinda funnyJan 08 15:32
schestowitzpsydroid: Google employs nany pervertsJan 08 15:32
schestowitzI can think, OFFHAND, of a dozen incidentsJan 08 15:33
schestowitzI gave only oneJan 08 15:33
CrystalMath#sexrights is goneJan 08 15:33
schestowitzSo it makes Google to hire more pervertsJan 08 15:33
schestowitzMicrosoft and Gates have a similar issueJan 08 15:33
CrystalMathAriadne: what's a furry?Jan 08 15:33
schestowitza pervert is unable to see another pervert as a pervertJan 08 15:33
schestowitzlike a corrupt mafioso, e.g. trump, cannot see what blackwater mercenaries did wrongJan 08 15:34
schestowitzthey just butchered a bunch of kids, big f'ing deal...Jan 08 15:34
MinceRlol @ sexrightsJan 08 15:34
mjg59CrystalMath: People who identify with anthrophormised animalsJan 08 15:34
mjg59CrystalMath: Not inherently sexual, but frequentlyJan 08 15:35
CrystalMathmjg59: i know, i was feigning innocenceJan 08 15:35
CrystalMathi know a few furries even, on IRCJan 08 15:35
mjg59CrystalMath: Well gosh it's hard to know, apparently we're not supposed to know about sex in hereJan 08 15:35
psydroidschestowitz: I think a series of articles on Google's internal practices would be great in the more distant future, although a lot has become clear in other articles posted so farJan 08 15:35
schestowitz a person who does Free software to get laid will view everyone around as a bunch of sex partyistsJan 08 15:36
schestowitzI feel bad for such peopleJan 08 15:36
mjg59Welp better write off rmsJan 08 15:36
schestowitzRMS started GNU not because of sexJan 08 15:36
schestowitzhe likes hacking codeJan 08 15:36
*mjg59 says nothingJan 08 15:37
schestowitzI always loved computers, so I was happy to be able to program things to run on them and see what happens, or change codes, or read manuals. IIRC, Torvalds told a similar story in his Bloomber interviewJan 08 15:38
schestowitzagain, this seems to be a common thingJan 08 15:38
schestowitzpeople learn to love codeJan 08 15:38
schestowitzthere will always be outliersJan 08 15:38
vZS1_2schestowitz: you need to filter out the junk. Trolls are diverting your time away from TR into nonsense.Jan 08 15:38
Ariadneschestowitz: i do free software to produce free software, but free software has (and continues to) gotten me laidJan 08 15:38
mjg59But yeah I can understand why someone who has a fundamentally fucked up sense of what sexual relationships actually are would have trouble figuring out why Jake or Assange had behaved poorlyJan 08 15:38
schestowitzlike people who enter politics for impunity while doing some horrible thingsJan 08 15:38
schestowitzI reckon Trump is an example of itJan 08 15:38
schestowitzhe was likely broke (hidden debt) when running for Pres. in 2015/2016 and weaponised racism to rescue himselfJan 08 15:39
schestowitz not unprecedented a move in other countriesJan 08 15:39
schestowitzvZS1_2: yes, I wasted time on thisJan 08 15:40
schestowitzmaybe that is the very GOALJan 08 15:40
schestowitzI could write tons moreJan 08 15:40
Ariadnetorvalds, yesJan 08 15:40
AriadneRMS/GNU, noJan 08 15:40
AriadnewellJan 08 15:40
schestowitzanyone wanna help me proofread?Jan 08 15:40
schestowitzI'm trying to get people to join the FSFJan 08 15:40
MinceRwhat for?Jan 08 15:41
schestowitzGNU fundingJan 08 15:41
Ariadnewhat is even the pointJan 08 15:41
schestowitztheir infrastructure\Jan 08 15:41
Ariadnehalf the GNU projects are using github anymoreJan 08 15:41
mjg59Linus is in a happy monogamous relationship with three kidsJan 08 15:41
MinceRwhat's the point of funding GNU?Jan 08 15:41
MinceRit's pretty much dead alreadyJan 08 15:41
Ariadneyeah fund systemd insteadJan 08 15:41
MinceRwhat for?Jan 08 15:42
MinceRibm is funding it alreadyJan 08 15:42
mjg59RMS fucks about a great deal more than Linux doesJan 08 15:42
mjg59Er ha oops LinusJan 08 15:42
MinceRmicroshit and ibm took over the whole thing, let them fund itJan 08 15:42
schestowitzFSF?Jan 08 15:42
schestowitzNot FSFJan 08 15:42
schestowitzOSI, yesJan 08 15:42
schestowitzI mention why OSI is money down the drainJan 08 15:43
schestowitzLF is still open for donations LOLJan 08 15:43
schestowitzwhat a scamJan 08 15:43
schestowitz[15:41] <Ariadne> half the GNU projects are using github anymoreJan 08 15:43
schestowitzNo, we countedJan 08 15:43
schestowitzless than a dozenJan 08 15:43
schestowitzout of hundedsJan 08 15:43
schestowitzand we want to keep that number smallJan 08 15:44
MinceRafaik the FSF was taken over by crybulliesJan 08 15:44
schestowitzFSF is working on gitlab-based alternative (to GH and Savannah)Jan 08 15:44
schestowitzMinceR: not anymoreJan 08 15:44
schestowitzI go through the listJan 08 15:44
schestowitzthey're ousted mostlyJan 08 15:44
MinceRso, is RMS back yet?Jan 08 15:44
schestowitzsort ofJan 08 15:44
schestowitzgraduallyJan 08 15:44
schestowitzwanna read?Jan 08 15:44
schestowitzI need to fish typos outJan 08 15:44
Ariadneschestowitz: coreutils is using itJan 08 15:44
MinceRyesJan 08 15:44
schestowitzI lost 2 hours due this this whole sexrighrs BSJan 08 15:45
schestowitzand rianne was reading it more than I didJan 08 15:45
schestowitzshe didn't put a block/ignore on he creepJan 08 15:45
schestowitz*theJan 08 15:45
MinceRlolJan 08 15:45
schestowitz 08 15:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Support GNU by Supporting the FSF in 2021 (10 Days Left for the Latest Campaign to Join) | TechrightsJan 08 15:47
schestowitzI am checking it noJan 08 15:47
schestowitzthe video is still uploadingJan 08 15:47
schestowitz10mb-20mb per hour yayJan 08 15:47
schestowitzbloody telecomJan 08 15:47
Ariadnehey i'm just being honestJan 08 15:47
Ariadnehackathons create relationships all the time, that's part of how you get close-knit communitiesJan 08 15:48
CrystalMathAriadne: right but maybe you're kinda exaggerating it... i mean many projects never had such thingsJan 08 15:49
Ariadnei'm really notJan 08 15:49
CrystalMaththere are projects where nearly everyone involved is a straight white maleJan 08 15:49
Ariadneyeah those projects suckJan 08 15:50
mjg59And there are projects that aren'tJan 08 15:50
Ariadneand die outJan 08 15:50
Ariadneor become the next systemd componentJan 08 15:50
mjg59Anyone who believes there's no sex in free software is missing outJan 08 15:50
CrystalMathi'm not missing out, i don't want to have sex at allJan 08 15:50
AriadnevalidJan 08 15:51
mjg59Yeah that was sloppily phrased on my partJan 08 15:51
mjg59ApologiesJan 08 15:51
mjg59But at a fundamental level, the idea that there's no association between progessive approaches to "IP" and software and progressive approaches to other aspects of society is nativeJan 08 15:52
mjg59s/native/naive/Jan 08 15:52
MinceR(cat) (audio:unimportant) 08 15:53
psydroidschestowitz, "both of which were created" (add "were"), "introduced to programming" (instead of "programmer")Jan 08 15:55
CrystalMathAriadne: i think lots of great projects were written sexlessly, like linux i think, and FVWMJan 08 15:55
CrystalMathi can't really vouch for either, thoughJan 08 15:56
psydroidah, I see you've already fixed the latterJan 08 15:56
Ariadnethere's a lot of promiscuous kernel developers :PJan 08 15:57
Ariadneor at least were some time agoJan 08 15:57
schestowitzpsydroid: thanks, fixedJan 08 15:57
Ariadnei don't really follow the kernel anymoreJan 08 15:57
Ariadneits very big nowJan 08 15:57
CrystalMaththe free software i use the most is linux, ksh93, fvwm, urxvt, and emacsJan 08 15:58
schestowitzI find it super-ironicJan 08 15:58
CrystalMathand X.orgJan 08 15:58
schestowitzfor no reason I'm being smeared as sexual somethingJan 08 15:58
Ariadnebut linux itself has largely been corporateJan 08 15:58
schestowitzby people who say FOSS is all about sexJan 08 15:58
Ariadnenobody said FOSS was all about sexJan 08 15:58
MinceRLinux was non-corporate back when it was goodJan 08 15:58
Ariadnejust that there is some intersectionality between non-corporate FOSS and sexJan 08 15:59
Ariadnethat's real "hacker culture"Jan 08 15:59
CrystalMathAriadne: i think there could have been some sex involved in the creation of emacsJan 08 15:59
*abarr has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)Jan 08 15:59
MinceRgenetic programming!Jan 08 15:59
CrystalMathAriadne: but the rest? doubtful, urxvt is a single person project (Schmorp), fvwm people are super square and old, ksh93 was made by AT&TJan 08 15:59
Ariadneobviously corporate FOSS is a totally different thingJan 08 15:59
AriadneSchmorp is a furryJan 08 16:00
Ariadneanyway this has been a fascinating conversation that started from the question of "why would two hackers share a bed"Jan 08 16:01
CrystalMathhehJan 08 16:02
schestowitz[15:59] <Ariadne> obviously corporate FOSSJan 08 16:02
schestowitzparadoxJan 08 16:02
schestowitzcorporations can use FSJan 08 16:02
CrystalMathsometimes they make it tooJan 08 16:02
schestowitzbut if the FS itself is corporate, then, you know...Jan 08 16:02
Ariadnewhat i mean there is that corporate FS doesn't have the same cultural values that RMS had when he kicked this thing offJan 08 16:03
MinceReven RMS doesn't have the same cultural values that RMS had when he kicked this thing offJan 08 16:03
schestowitzthat can lead to issuesJan 08 16:03
MinceRsadlyJan 08 16:03
schestowitzhe doesJan 08 16:03
schestowitzhe is pressuredJan 08 16:03
schestowitzto conformJan 08 16:04
MinceRhe would have started a campaign against systemd if he didJan 08 16:04
Ariadnemost likely he has never had to debug systemd and thus does not see the problmJan 08 16:04
schestowitzhe knows those issues, MinceRJan 08 16:04
MinceRlolJan 08 16:04
schestowitzbut red hat and ibm gave him moneyJan 08 16:04
schestowitzalso a company that employs sexual predatorsJan 08 16:05
schestowitzFSF has not been funded by that sleaze for 5 years though Jan 08 16:05
schestowitzFSFE still is Jan 08 16:05
Ariadneanyway, last time i checked, RMS is still a barefoot, folkdancing, Pan-following personJan 08 16:05
Ariadnewhich is pretty coolJan 08 16:05
schestowitzalmost 20% of its budget for a long time nowJan 08 16:05
Ariadnemad respect honestlyJan 08 16:05
Ariadnewish he had phrased his defense of minsky betterJan 08 16:05
schestowitzRMS is acting all normal when I meet himJan 08 16:05
schestowitzcoat, shoes, bagJan 08 16:05
schestowitzhe uses backpack, very practicalJan 08 16:06
schestowitzand uses UK rail to travelJan 08 16:06
Ariadneyeah i mean he does that tooJan 08 16:06
schestowitzsome people wear bathrobes at homeJan 08 16:06
CrystalMathAriadne: i miss the 90s hacker cultureJan 08 16:06
schestowitzand suits to workJan 08 16:06
schestowitzRMS can change outfitJan 08 16:06
schestowitzin Latin America he'd speak SpanishJan 08 16:06
CrystalMathAriadne: not so much the late 2000s/2010s oneJan 08 16:07
schestowitzanyway, enough about the personJan 08 16:07
Ariadnei'm sorry, do you think i am criticising RMS?Jan 08 16:07
schestowitz[16:02] <schestowitz> but if the FS itself is corporate, then, you know...Jan 08 16:07
schestowitzthe issue was, FSFJan 08 16:07
schestowitzand FSJan 08 16:07
schestowitzwith corporatismJan 08 16:07
schestowitzand I think a members-funded FSF would be better offJan 08 16:07
schestowitzlike the green party USAJan 08 16:07
schestowitzno need to be bigJan 08 16:07
schestowitzjust don't get corruptedJan 08 16:07
Ariadneok, when FSF decides to stop taking corporate donations, i'll consider giving them moneyJan 08 16:08
schestowitztechrights is not big, but we never took any bribesJan 08 16:08
schestowitzAriadne: yes, those "patrons" are a problemJan 08 16:08
schestowitzGoogle spies on those members to monetise themJan 08 16:08
schestowitzand then gives a share of that money to FSF, in exchange for silenceJan 08 16:08
schestowitzso FSF rarely berates GoogleJan 08 16:08
schestowitzGoogle is just one exampleJan 08 16:08
Ariadnein the meantime, my $$$ can be used to produce better and more FOSSJan 08 16:09
schestowitzIBM/Red Hat and systemd is anotherJan 08 16:09
schestowitzthey can lose 1-2 members of staff is Red Rat stops payingJan 08 16:09
Ariadneglibc is an engineering disaster at this pointJan 08 16:09
schestowitz*ifJan 08 16:09
Ariadneas is much of the rest of GNUJan 08 16:09
schestowitzAriadne: yes, pay rent and buy foodJan 08 16:09
schestowitzthat's what I doJan 08 16:09
schestowitzI can write more code and wordsJan 08 16:09
Ariadnewe didn't start alpine because we hate GNU, we started it because we needed something betterJan 08 16:09
schestowitzwe only donate to the blind and to animal trustsJan 08 16:09
schestowitzI bought 20 teats for orphaned elephants yesterdayJan 08 16:10
schestowitzalpine is goodJan 08 16:10
schestowitzapline has gnu tooJan 08 16:10
schestowitzI use gnu tools in itJan 08 16:10
Ariadneyes, the good ones are availableJan 08 16:10
schestowitz*alpineJan 08 16:10
schestowitzit's very solid an OSJan 08 16:11
schestowitznever seen it crash yet... 2+ yearsJan 08 16:11
schestowitzthe DB container in it -- same. 100% uptime since creation last EasterJan 08 16:11
schestowitzat work we have an NHS client with lots of postgres and one machine with MS SQLJan 08 16:12
schestowitzand boy, I can tell some stories about that machineJan 08 16:12
schestowitzit's beyond tragicJan 08 16:12
schestowitzsometimes it crashes, sometimes it shuts itself down because of licence validationJan 08 16:12
schestowitzso the other 50+ machines cannot function (they all run debian/ubuntu)Jan 08 16:12
schestowitzso there's really no sane argument for keeping MS SQL in thereJan 08 16:13
schestowitzbut you know Microsoft 'grayheads'Jan 08 16:13
Ariadnewell if they were actually using MS SQL features it would make senseJan 08 16:13
schestowitzI think they use some windows gui somewhereJan 08 16:13
schestowitzbut all the heavy listing isn't done by that lousy machine, which runs some old version of WIndutendoJan 08 16:14
Ariadne[09:06:57] <CrystalMath> Ariadne: not so much the late 2000s/2010s oneJan 08 16:14
Ariadnei'm pretty much a product of the mid 2000s-2010s oneJan 08 16:15
AriadneMS SQL can do a lotJan 08 16:15
CrystalMathAriadne: that was after the e-zines and phrack and the cool kids hacking the GibsonJan 08 16:15
Ariadnethough PostgreSQL has caught up in a lot of areasJan 08 16:15
MinceRmace windutendo?Jan 08 16:17
MinceRschestowitz: i haven't found any errors in the articleJan 08 16:21
*notanamber has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)Jan 08 16:30
schestowitzthanks, MinceRJan 08 16:38
MinceRnpJan 08 16:38
schestowitzassange video now 9% uploaded. Wow, blazing fast. maybe it'll be ready by midnight...Jan 08 16:41
schestowitzno time left to do one about InteLeaksJan 08 16:41
schestowitzwe need to do scheduling and time-sharing for uploadsJan 08 16:41
schestowitzlike in the days we bought quotas for trans-Atlantic trafficJan 08 16:42
schestowitzor got it free after midnightJan 08 16:42
schestowitzBrexit means BrexshitJan 08 16:42
vZS1_2Looking forward to the Assange videoJan 08 16:53
schestowitzBT could rush it throughJan 08 17:02
schestowitz 08 17:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Social Control Media PostsJan 08 17:03
schestowitz     #BT is truly horrible; now our download speeds are seriously degraded as well. Hard to get work done! And we both work from home!!          ☞ Jan 08 17:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/ » Blog Archive » Coronavirus May Have Caused a Nationwide or Regional Congestion Crisis for BTJan 08 17:03
schestowitzI think I will report #bt for its abuses over the weekend... complaint to #ofcom ... and it won't be pretty. BT has dug its own grave. Context: #btuk  Jan 08 17:03
schestowitzLatest update on awful, awful #bt After a bad week (upload speeds still appalling, now download speeds too) the manager was supposed to phone me, but did not! Liars. Trying to make a call with them? 20-30 minutes just to speak to an "adviser". They're being snobbish and unhelpful.   Jan 08 17:03
vZS1_2Better off leaving BT, once your contract expires.Jan 08 17:04
schestowitzthe line us theirsJan 08 17:07
schestowitzopenreachJan 08 17:07
schestowitzafaik, exchanges too are shared among ISPsJan 08 17:08
schestowitzso short of 4g modem/router, which is expensive (the people in Newcastle's chartered thing told me), might be last resortJan 08 17:08
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 17:09
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 17:19
*kupi (uid212005@gateway/web/ has joined #techrightsJan 08 17:24
*vZS1_2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 08 17:25
schestowitzvZS1: it sped up all of a sudden, done nowJan 08 17:53
schestowitzI'll do an Intel pieceJan 08 17:53
schestowitzMinceR: psydroid will quote you soonJan 08 18:47
schestowitz a great dealJan 08 18:47
schestowitzin next Intel series partJan 08 18:48
MinceR:)Jan 08 18:48
schestowitzcore part:Jan 08 18:48
schestowitzThis seems to be the core:Jan 08 18:48
schestowitz> The preferred method was markdown. There was flexibility for rst or Jan 08 18:48
schestowitz> asciidocs as an alternate if needed. The guides were published inJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> the end as HTML. After the process was in place, several teamsJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> (mostly low-technical or even close to what could be consideredJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> non-technical) refused to conform to the process and requested,Jan 08 18:48
schestowitz> first, to use Google Docs for a GNU Linux project - this request wasJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> refused. A manager suggested reporting the non conformity to otherJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> management. To my knowledge this was never pursued. Then, the oneJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> non-conforming team requested a docx format be used with 0 versioningJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> and multiple versions being passed around with no confirmation as toJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> the "current" version. After insisting the git process be conformedJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> to, a resource reminded the group of a looming deadline at thisJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> point, and forced an exception in this case. First, the content ofJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> docs were staged in gitlab by a writing resource - in markdown. TheJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> engineering team stated they did not know markdown. Those on the teamJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> in another capacity - content strategy, still refused to edit inJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> gitlab passing multiple versions of MS Word docx format after GoogleJan 08 18:48
schestowitz> Docs was outright refused for this GNU Linux project.Jan 08 18:48
schestowitzAnon: "However, I would recommend paraphrasing rather than quoting.  No specific reasons, just that raw quotes of material of that provenance should be done sparingly."Jan 08 18:48
psydroidthese days Markdown and LaTeX are just as easy to handle using web tools as Google Docs and MS Word with vastly better results, so the problems with using freely available and generally user-friendly tools must be culturalJan 08 18:57
psydroidthis reminds me of what is going on at the LFJan 08 18:57
cybrNaut-I know some aerospace engineers who "can't handle" LaTeX, so the project opted for genuine MS Word, which of course is a complete disaster when checking binary docs into Clearcase and then doing a diff for reviews.Jan 08 19:00
MinceRlolJan 08 19:01
cybrNaut-I didn't accept the rationale that they can't handle it.. I think management just hates engineers to maintain docs that alienates managersJan 08 19:01
cybrNaut-low-tech managers like MS Word, and that preference gets imposed on engineers doing the real work.Jan 08 19:03
cybrNaut-The project manager said "we don't use LaTeX b/c no one knows it".  Then I went to a university and asked "why are these science students using Google Docs instead of LaTeX"  The reply was: "Because LaTeX is not in industry"Jan 08 19:05
cybrNaut-wtfJan 08 19:05
schestowitzIntel is being 'infested' or increasingly dominated by people who lack technical skills and have an affinity for Microsoft's proprietary software (even in divisions dedicated to GNU/Linux)Jan 08 19:05
cybrNaut-so is it the psydroid project that is battling this?  I didn't catch the contextJan 08 19:07
schestowitzyou will seeJan 08 19:07
schestowitzI will quote you alsoJan 08 19:08
schestowitzwhat you said is relevant to itJan 08 19:08
schestowitzI will post a draft in a momentJan 08 19:10
schestowitzthis way we can add more quotes and correct typosJan 08 19:11
schestowitzthose are viewed a lotJan 08 19:11
schestowitzI think angry Intel workers like itJan 08 19:11
psydroidcybrNaut-: it is not my project, I am just giving my input in a place where I have something to contribute and also where I was/am directly and indirectly in contact with people who worked at or are currently working at Intel. To be honest it feels more like a curse than a blessing bo be surrounded by them in many places.Jan 08 19:11
schestowitzHere 08 19:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | InteLeaks – Part VIII: Microsoft and Its Facilitators Destroying Intel From the Inside | TechrightsJan 08 19:11
psydroidto*Jan 08 19:11
schestowitzdraft, there will be typoJan 08 19:11
schestowitz*typosJan 08 19:11
schestowitzbut I hope the flow is logical, sort ofJan 08 19:12
cybrNaut-One reason managers cling to proprietary s/w: if the tool fails, they want accountability.  Although I think proprietary is as without warranty as free software, managers think they are less exposed if they can blame software issues on another supplier.  But I'm not sure why a commercial linux entity like Red Hat couldn't fill the scapegoat role just the sameJan 08 19:20
schestowitzok, post finalisedJan 08 19:22
schestowitzunless you spot typosJan 08 19:23
psydroid"This is how you can quickly drive out any GNU/Linux talent you’ve managed to attract." <- This resonates strongly with me, as their HR people's attempts to reach out to potential candidates doesn't even seem genuine. They know they need those people with GNU/Linux skills, but don't even mention anything about the job out of a fear of never being able to attract them in the first place, if people knew what was going oJan 08 19:23
psydroidon the inside.Jan 08 19:23
schestowitzthat's why we do this series :-)Jan 08 19:24
psydroid(maybe off the record, but ARM HR offered me a job for Linux/KVM work)Jan 08 19:24
psydroidit's all about the intent, I thinkJan 08 19:25
schestowitzNVIdiaJan 08 19:26
schestowitzwatch outJan 08 19:26
schestowitznot BritishJan 08 19:26
schestowitzNot JapaneseJan 08 19:27
schestowitz"fuck you, nvidia"Jan 08 19:27
psydroidit was a few years ago before Nvidia came on the radarJan 08 19:27
schestowitzahaJan 08 19:28
schestowitzwell, japan has issuesJan 08 19:28
schestowitzsoftbank alsoJan 08 19:28
schestowitzbad investmentJan 08 19:28
schestowitzmany I can think ofJan 08 19:28
schestowitznever mind the olympic mistakeJan 08 19:28
schestowitzmario can waitJan 08 19:28
schestowitzand lugiJan 08 19:28
schestowitzluigiJan 08 19:28
psydroidlolJan 08 19:29
schestowitzwhoaJan 08 19:29
schestowitz1300+ covid deaths today in the ukJan 08 19:29
schestowitzwell done, toriesJan 08 19:29
schestowitza-holesJan 08 19:29
psydroidI visited the olympic town near stratford onceJan 08 19:29
psydroidcompletely abandonedJan 08 19:29
psydroidjust like the one in barcelonaJan 08 19:29
schestowitz68k new casesJan 08 19:29
schestowitzpsydroid: white elephantsJan 08 19:30
schestowitzthe rich don't careJan 08 19:30
schestowitzthe taxpayers payJan 08 19:30
schestowitzwe foot the bill with national debtsJan 08 19:30
schestowitzso they can mass-distract the masses with stupid festivalsJan 08 19:30
schestowitzwhile they funnel money to their islandsJan 08 19:30
schestowitzthey keep football going nowJan 08 19:30
schestowitzbut nothing elseJan 08 19:31
schestowitzno shopsJan 08 19:31
schestowitzbut footballJan 08 19:31
schestowitzgotta keep the 'plebs' distracted by somethingJan 08 19:31
schestowitzand hopeful with vaccine promisesJan 08 19:31
schestowitzfrom Pearly BJan 08 19:31
schestowitzin some parts near london 1 in 50 people tested positiveJan 08 19:32
schestowitznot estimated by extrapolation but actually testedJan 08 19:32
schestowitzso it's getting hard to safely walk "out there"Jan 08 19:32
schestowitzI left the home today for the first time in 19 days (new record) to get loads of foodJan 08 19:32
schestowitzpsydroid: thanks for the useful input re Intel, I've added that as a paragrapJan 08 19:33
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 19:33
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 19:37
DaemonFC[m]The party of "law and order" murdered a Capitol Police officer.Jan 08 19:48
DaemonFC[m]Law enforcement is looking for the people responsible for beating and trampling officer Brian Sicknick to death. Trump loves those people and they are very special to him.Jan 08 19:48
*xvx (~xvx@ has joined #techrightsJan 08 19:49
DaemonFC[m]The party of cop killers and neoconfederates on welfare.Jan 08 19:50
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 19:50
cybrNaut-what were his injuries? were they head injuries?Jan 08 19:53
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 19:54
cybrNaut-it's good to see some backlash.  A lawyer who was in the mob was sacked by his employer, and a professor in the mob was forced to resignJan 08 19:54
cybrNaut-Josh Holly's publisher is now refusing to publish his book, and Shopify pulled the plug on 2 shops selling Trump swag/flags/etcJan 08 19:56
schestowitztoo lateJan 08 19:58
schestowitztoo little, too lateJan 08 19:58
DaemonFC[m]They nabbed that guy from Arkansas sitting at Pelosi's desk. He faces a mandatory minimum sentence of 10 years.Jan 08 20:04
DaemonFC[m] 08 20:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Man seen in viral photograph at Nancy Pelosi's desk faces charges, officials say - CNNPoliticsJan 08 20:04
DaemonFC[m]Keep the quarter. Call a lawyer.Jan 08 20:04
DaemonFC[m]"The man photographed sitting at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's desk during Wednesday's riots in the US Capitol has been arrested and charged with three federal counts, including theft of public property, federal officials said Friday."Jan 08 20:05
DaemonFC[m]He stole an envelope with a letter Pelosi was writing to another House member.Jan 08 20:05
DaemonFC[m]That was another felony charge, apparently.Jan 08 20:05
DaemonFC[m]He was waving it around in front of a CNN camera and bragging that he stole it.Jan 08 20:06
DaemonFC[m]That will be evidence, along with the picture he took of himself with his feet propped up on her office desk, and posted to Facebook.Jan 08 20:07
DaemonFC[m]Criminal mastermind. MinceR schestowitz Jan 08 20:07
DaemonFC[m]Can you believe these people? No plan for what would happen after they did this.Jan 08 20:08
DaemonFC[m]And some of them are even CEOs and shit.Jan 08 20:08
cybrNaut-"including theft of public property" <= he said on camera that he left a quarter on Pelosi's desk to pay for the letterhead that he took.  Will be interesting to see if that holds upJan 08 20:08
DaemonFC[m]That doesn't hold up because the owner of the property has to consent.Jan 08 20:08
DaemonFC[m]And they also arrested that guy who stole a speaking podium from the Senate chamber.Jan 08 20:08
CrystalMathi suppose it'll take a quarter off the fine he gets in addition to the sentence :PJan 08 20:09
CrystalMaththat was pretty dumb indeedJan 08 20:09
DaemonFC[m]Yeah, if I was the judge I'd fine him $9,999.75 for the theft. That's $10,000 (minimum fine) minus the quarter. Jan 08 20:09
MinceRDaemonFC[m]: lolJan 08 20:10
cybrNaut-i'm sure strictly speaking it wouldn't hold up, but if a jury thinks a sentence is overly harsh they can vote against the chargeJan 08 20:10
DaemonFC[m]Give the news something funny to write about.Jan 08 20:10
MinceRthey must have believed they're above the law like their heroJan 08 20:10
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: This guy isn't worth costing us money to jail. I'd stick him with three $10,000 fines, a 10 year suspended prison sentence contingent on successfully completing ten years of house arrest with ankle monitoring, at his own expense. Jan 08 20:11
cybrNaut-jury nullification is the mechanism, although most US courts neglect to inform jurors of the jury nullification optionJan 08 20:11
DaemonFC[m]Oh, they won't go to a jury trial.Jan 08 20:12
DaemonFC[m]They'll plea bargain, most of them.Jan 08 20:12
DaemonFC[m]That's how 86% of cases end, and the 14% that go to trial, there's a 90% conviction rate.Jan 08 20:13
DaemonFC[m]So, uhhh, good luck with that.Jan 08 20:13
schestowitz'bargain'Jan 08 20:13
schestowitzwhat will be the charges against cops who allowed this invasion?Jan 08 20:13
schestowitzoh, sorryJan 08 20:13
schestowitzpolice are above the lawJan 08 20:13
DaemonFC[m]Some of them are being fired.Jan 08 20:14
schestowitz"blue lives meeeetah"Jan 08 20:14
CrystalMaththe police got defunded :PJan 08 20:14
cybrNaut-iirc, Maryland passed a bill that informs jurors about the jury nullification option.. but I guess that doesn't help these guysJan 08 20:14
DaemonFC[m]The mob killed one officer, you know.Jan 08 20:14
DaemonFC[m]Injured 57 of them too.Jan 08 20:14
DaemonFC[m]That's what they get for treating them so softly.Jan 08 20:14
DaemonFC[m]They deserve it after that.Jan 08 20:14
MinceR 08 20:14
CrystalMathi wonder, who was BLM trying to defund earlier this year?Jan 08 20:15
CrystalMathmops?Jan 08 20:15
schestowitzwhat shamblesJan 08 20:15
CrystalMathcrops?Jan 08 20:15
CrystalMathi can't quite put my finger on itJan 08 20:15
CrystalMathi'm not surprised the police did nothingJan 08 20:15
MinceRit will be interesting to see a new kind of jury trial where every member of the jury votes solely on the basis of which party they supportJan 08 20:15
CrystalMathMinceR: welcome to 3rd world americaJan 08 20:15
MinceRit's 1st world by definition :>Jan 08 20:16
schestowitzthier ownJan 08 20:16
schestowitzI am in favour of ranking nations by wealth gapJan 08 20:16
CrystalMathbut i mean it's starting to get really crappy thereJan 08 20:17
schestowitza country where some people have a billion times more in the bank than those who do all the work for them rank lastJan 08 20:17
MinceR:>Jan 08 20:17
schestowitzover here brexit drobe away many peopleJan 08 20:17
schestowitznot EU folksJan 08 20:17
schestowitzBrits with talentJan 08 20:18
schestowitzand now COVID chops down or mows down many peopleJan 08 20:18
cybrNaut-schestowitz: those rankings exist.  And as you'd expect, Denmark is near the top and the US is near the bottom next to Mexico and other 3rd worldsJan 08 20:18
schestowitzthere will be many homes for sale if like half a million people perish in a couple of yearsJan 08 20:18
schestowitzso it's not great here eitherJan 08 20:18
schestowitzwe lose peopleJan 08 20:18
schestowitznot the ones who are without "value to society"Jan 08 20:18
schestowitzthey go to greener pastures (not US!)Jan 08 20:19
schestowitzwhy denmark?Jan 08 20:19
schestowitzthey rate high for scholarly thingsJan 08 20:19
schestowitzlike publications/capitaJan 08 20:19
cybrNaut- 08 20:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Inequality - Income inequality - OECD DataJan 08 20:20
schestowitzahaJan 08 20:20
cybrNaut-actually Denmark is 6thJan 08 20:20
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: Apparently I did order Mandy's birth certificate properly. I got two copies on the way via FedEx.Jan 08 20:22
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 20:22
DaemonFC[m]So there's one problem down, I suppose.Jan 08 20:22
cybrNaut-so if you're an unskilled laborer, good places to work are belgium or scandinavia, and lousy places to work are US or UKJan 08 20:22
DaemonFC[m]The federal agencies in the US seem to have a penchant for just grabbing originals and never giving them back.Jan 08 20:22
DaemonFC[m]The certified copy we have is a little beat up, so if they want an original, that's the one USCIS is getting.Jan 08 20:23
DaemonFC[m]He managed to send his passport through the washing machine when he lived with the wicked witch of Gurnee.Jan 08 20:23
MinceRdid you expect something better from a state? :>Jan 08 20:23
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: Nope.Jan 08 20:23
cybrNaut-DaemonFC[m]: you should be boycotting FedEx.  FedEx is an NRA-supporting ALEC member (supports Trump's views on policy).  FedEx also ships shark fins, slave dolphins, and hunting trophiesJan 08 20:24
schestowitzhmmm... looks like covid deaths per capita in hungary is similar to what it is hereJan 08 20:24
DaemonFC[m]I try not to have expectations when dealing with the government, except that it will be as horrible, combative, and difficult as possible.Jan 08 20:24
schestowitzorban isn't handling it well, eitherJan 08 20:24
schestowitzMinceR: did the fascists impose lockdown?Jan 08 20:24
MinceRhey, orban is doing everything he canJan 08 20:24
MinceRavoiding testing, not buying tests, lying about the numbers, talking shitJan 08 20:24
MinceRfaking the numbers, presenting them in a useless wayJan 08 20:25
DaemonFC[m]Congress is impeaching Trump again next week.Jan 08 20:25
MinceRnot doing contact trackingJan 08 20:25
MinceR"you can't stop the pandemic with masks!"Jan 08 20:25
DaemonFC[m]They should just let loose on the articles and name everything he's done that should be considered criminal, at least the major stuff.Jan 08 20:25
MinceR"you can't stop the pandemic with testing!"Jan 08 20:25
MinceR"you can't stop the pandemic with contact tracing!"Jan 08 20:25
DaemonFC[m]Criminal negligence during the coronavirus pandemic.Jan 08 20:25
schestowitzlolJan 08 20:25
MinceRoh, and arresting people for saying negative things about him on dumbFuckBookJan 08 20:25
schestowitzherd immunity idiocyJan 08 20:25
MinceRschestowitz: we have the most idiotic lockdown everJan 08 20:26
MinceRcurfew between 20:00 and 5:00 unless you have a dog with you and within 500m of your homeJan 08 20:26
schestowitztbh, I have the 'privilege' of working from home even well before this... so I can self-isolate a lot. Many lost their jobs or work jobs that don't let them isolate properlyJan 08 20:26
DaemonFC[m]22,342,229 confirmed total cases in the US so far.Jan 08 20:26
MinceRin bigger settlements you have to wear a mask on public groundsJan 08 20:26
schestowitzDaemonFC[m]: like Mandy's jobJan 08 20:26
DaemonFC[m]376,447confirmed deathsJan 08 20:26
DaemonFC[m]They say your first million's the hardest.Jan 08 20:27
schestowitz400k by inaugurationJan 08 20:27
MinceRbecause obviously SARS-CoV-2 only infects between 20:00 and 5:00 and is afraid of dogs, but only if the dog is within 500m of its homeJan 08 20:27
schestowitznot likely, but not impossibleJan 08 20:27
schestowitzif it surges fastJan 08 20:27
MinceRthey apparently negotiated a ceasefire with SARS-CoV-2 for december 24 night, thoughJan 08 20:27
schestowitzexcess deaths in US to reach a million by March, I read last yearJan 08 20:27
schestowitzMinceR: yeah, nicely putJan 08 20:28
schestowitzwith jokes and humourJan 08 20:28
schestowitzthey limit opening timesJan 08 20:28
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 20:28
MinceRyeah, they did that tooJan 08 20:28
schestowitzthat only increases how crowded places becomeJan 08 20:28
MinceRwhich is, of course, counterproductiveJan 08 20:28
schestowitzI buy food at the very quiet hoursJan 08 20:28
MinceRbut hey, they're showing off how forceful they areJan 08 20:28
MinceRas fascists shouldJan 08 20:28
DaemonFC[m] 08 20:28
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Biden's push for $2,000 stimulus checks opposed by Manchin: 'Absolutely not' | Fox BusinessJan 08 20:28
schestowitzamazon(r) is open 24/7Jan 08 20:29
DaemonFC[m]Well, some of the Republicans really wanted the $2,000 and just couldn't get it by Mitch McConnell.Jan 08 20:29
schestowitzwe need to limit the versatility of rivals of theirsJan 08 20:29
schestowitzbecause their rivals actually do pay taxJan 08 20:29
DaemonFC[m]So the main problem in the way of that will be gone soon.Jan 08 20:29
MinceRthe extra deaths per week (compared to the previous 5 years) were approximately twice as many as the COVID-19 deaths they officially reportedJan 08 20:29
MinceRof course this could be because a lot of people who didn't have COVID-19 didn't get the treatment they neededJan 08 20:29
MinceRthose people don't count anymoreJan 08 20:29
DaemonFC[m]MinceR: Trump's Brownshirts are being identified and rounded up.Jan 08 20:30
schestowitzMinceR: that's why I say count death certsJan 08 20:30
DaemonFC[m]He threw them under the bus saying they would be found and punished severely.Jan 08 20:30
*GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Jan 08 20:30
MinceRthe nazis even had people kicked out of hospitals to free up beds in preparation for COVID-19 treatmentJan 08 20:30
schestowitzand then measure excess deathsJan 08 20:30
DaemonFC[m]Meanwhile, he's talking to impeachment and criminal defense lawyers about his own conduct.Jan 08 20:30
MinceRand then lied about thisJan 08 20:30
schestowitzharder to game such numbersJan 08 20:30
*GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrightsJan 08 20:30
DaemonFC[m]This is the first time since the Civil War that DC has had to request soldiers from state governments to protect it.Jan 08 20:31
schestowitz 08 20:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | All Aboard the Pequod! — Krebs on SecurityJan 08 20:31
schestowitz"Like countless others, I frittered away the better part of Jan. 6 doomscrolling and watching television coverage of the horrifying events unfolding in our nation’s capital, where a mob of President Trump supporters and QAnon conspiracy theorists was incited to lay siege to the U.S. Capitol. For those trying to draw meaning from the experience, might I suggest consulting the literary classic Moby Dick, which simultaneously holds Jan 08 20:31
schestowitzclues about QAnon’s origins and offers an apt allegory about a modern-day Captain Ahab and his ill-fated obsessions."Jan 08 20:31
DaemonFC[m]And Mayor Bowser had to ask state governors because Trump wouldn't call up the DC National Guard.Jan 08 20:32
DaemonFC[m]She got over 5,000 soldiers and several hundred state police officers from other states in, and only then did Trump call up the DC Guard.Jan 08 20:32
DaemonFC[m]She's calling on the federal government to admit DC as a state and to give her control of their National Guard as soon as Biden gets in.Jan 08 20:33
DaemonFC[m]Giving her control over the National Guard is much more likely than statehood.Jan 08 20:33
DaemonFC[m]Statehood for DC should be a priority for the Democrats. The district has never voted for a Republican president or a Resident Commissioner in the House.Jan 08 20:33
DaemonFC[m]If they became a state, they would have two additional electoral votes, three House members with full voting rights, and two Senators. Jan 08 20:34
*vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)Jan 08 20:35
DaemonFC[m]It would not only make it much less likely to have a Republican majority in Congress, but two more electoral votes on the Democratic side couldn't hurt their odds of retaining the White House.Jan 08 20:35
schestowitzwhen you have a military as nationJan 08 20:35
*vZS1 ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 20:35
DaemonFC[m]But they've never moved on this before.Jan 08 20:35
schestowitzand everything is funded through militaryJan 08 20:35
cybrNaut-there is a min population requirement to become a stateJan 08 20:35
schestowitzeven the tech giantsJan 08 20:35
DaemonFC[m]<cybrNaut- "there is a min population requir"> Actually, there's not.Jan 08 20:35
schestowitzwith trillions from taxpayers (debt) taken each yearJan 08 20:35
schestowitzwas 1.1 trillion per year for the empire per year... as of 4 years agoJan 08 20:35
schestowitzmaybe 1.3 by nowJan 08 20:35
schestowitzthe military is now directed inwardsJan 08 20:36
schestowitzand it's just as ugly as the world foresaqJan 08 20:36
schestowitz*foresawJan 08 20:36
cybrNaut-4 "states" in the US are actually "commonwealths" b/c they don't reach the min population needed to be a stateJan 08 20:36
DaemonFC[m]That's wrong.Jan 08 20:36
schestowitzno, they are coloniesJan 08 20:36
DaemonFC[m]They all have populations many times the size of the state of Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, or North Dakota.Jan 08 20:36
schestowitzsome lack voting rightsJan 08 20:37
schestowitzor worseJan 08 20:37
DaemonFC[m]They style themselves as Commonwealth, but in regards to their relationship with the federal government, they're still states.Jan 08 20:37
DaemonFC[m]Massachusetts has about the same population as Indiana.Jan 08 20:37
DaemonFC[m]There's few requirements, other than political ones, to becoming a state.Jan 08 20:38
cybrNaut- 08 20:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Why only 4 US states are called 'Commonwealths': Explainer - Business InsiderJan 08 20:38
DaemonFC[m]At various times, Congress has required territories to be split up to admit them as separate states. They required the Mormons to outlaw polygamy to admit Utah.Jan 08 20:38
DaemonFC[m]There's really nothing special about the style of "Commonwealth".Jan 08 20:39
DaemonFC[m]And it has nothing to do with population or whether they are a "state" or not in our federal system.Jan 08 20:39
DaemonFC[m]Puerto Rico could legally be admitted as a state and decide for itself whether to refer to itself as state or commonwealth or attack helicopter.Jan 08 20:40
MinceRi'm hoping for the latterJan 08 20:40
DaemonFC[m]It doesn't really mean much of anything, legally, whether a state calls itself a commonwealth.Jan 08 20:40
DaemonFC[m]It is admitted as a state.Jan 08 20:40
DaemonFC[m]Many people don't like the idea of DC being a state, and also don't like the idea of them having no self-governance at all.Jan 08 20:41
DaemonFC[m]Which is where the amendment to give them some electoral votes, and the DC Home Rule law came from.Jan 08 20:41
DaemonFC[m]But not giving them statehood is unfair.Jan 08 20:42
DaemonFC[m]They have to come up with their own budget, from their own taxes.Jan 08 20:42
DaemonFC[m]Congress has specifically stopped them from laying down fair share taxes on people who live outside the district but work there.Jan 08 20:42
DaemonFC[m]When you live in a state and work in another state, the two states have an agreement on who gets the taxes.Jan 08 20:43
cybrNaut-isn't there a loss of freedom in becoming a state?  E.g. marijuana can be state regulated, but if the fed wants to regulate it they have to abuse the interstate commerce clause of the ConstitutionJan 08 20:43
DaemonFC[m]For example, when you live in Indiana, and work in Illinois, you file income taxes in Illinois and Indiana, but you pay Illinois, and then deduct your Illinois taxes from Indiana, which means you're paying Illinois, not Indiana.Jan 08 20:44
DaemonFC[m]<cybrNaut- "isn't there a loss of freedom in"> Actually no. A territory, or a federal enclave like DC, is ruled over directly by Congress and gets an Organic Act that delegates whatever Congress doesn't want to deal with.Jan 08 20:44
DaemonFC[m]In the case of DC, they could only legalize marijuana in the district because the Home Rule Act gives them the authority to pass laws for the District, and Congress can only overrule those laws by either voting them down within 30 days, or passing a new federal law that voids it out.Jan 08 20:45
DaemonFC[m]And they never did.Jan 08 20:45
cybrNaut-some states have tax treaties, which simplifies it.  E.g. there's a treaty between ohio and indiana so you only have to file in the state where you reside.Jan 08 20:45
DaemonFC[m]Well, these aren't exactly treaties.Jan 08 20:46
DaemonFC[m]They're called inter-state compacts, and they have to either be agreed to individually by Congress or Congress can preemptively give the states permission to come to any agreement they want about a certain issue.Jan 08 20:46
DaemonFC[m]When you hear about representatives from a state government making a trade deal with China or something, there is no formal deal. It would be illegal without Congress authorizing it.Jan 08 20:47
DaemonFC[m]But they can legally agree that if Indiana does this, then China will do that, but without a binding agreement in effect.Jan 08 20:47
DaemonFC[m]As an informal agreement.Jan 08 20:48
DaemonFC[m]Likewise, some countries won't extradite anyone who faces a death sentence.Jan 08 20:48
cybrNaut-since drivers licenses are a state thing, each US state must separately get a driving reciprocity agreement with each countryJan 08 20:48
DaemonFC[m]They can't negotiate with a state government in the US because that's illegal.Jan 08 20:48
DaemonFC[m]But the state can agree with the federal government that the person will not face the death sentence, and then the federal government can make that agreement with the foreign governemnt.Jan 08 20:49
DaemonFC[m]<cybrNaut- "since drivers licenses are a sta"> Not exactly.Jan 08 20:49
DaemonFC[m]In the US, there's the driver's license compact. 47/50 states are part of the compact.Jan 08 20:49
DaemonFC[m]The other 3 recognize out of state licenses as a matter of their own state law.Jan 08 20:49
DaemonFC[m]But Canadian provinces are signed on to the license compact.Jan 08 20:50
DaemonFC[m]Foreign government can give effect to US driver's licenses if they want to.Jan 08 20:50
DaemonFC[m]They don't have to.Jan 08 20:50
cybrNaut-In belgium they have a list of which kind of endorsement from each US state maps to what endorsement on the belgian licenseJan 08 20:51
cybrNaut-and iirc most states motorcycle licenses are not recognized in BelgiumJan 08 20:52
DaemonFC[m] 08 20:52
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Driving Outside the U.S. | DMV.ORGJan 08 20:52
DaemonFC[m]"Wherefore President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security, democracy, and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profitJan 08 20:53
DaemonFC[m]under the United States."Jan 08 20:53
DaemonFC[m]Nice.Jan 08 20:53
DaemonFC[m] 08 20:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Read: House Democrats' draft of a new article of impeachment against Trump - CNNPoliticsJan 08 20:54
MinceRindeedJan 08 20:57
cybrNaut-seems like the riot is minor compared to collusion with russia to manipulate the 2016 election, and compared to the quid-pro-quo with Ukraine, yet the riot may actually be the only impeachment that has effect in the endJan 08 20:57
DaemonFC[m]Incitement of InsurrectionJan 08 20:57
MinceRthe "republican" party was on board with russian manipulation of the 2016 electionJan 08 20:57
MinceRthey do not agree with the current circusJan 08 20:57
DaemonFC[m]The others were political in nature and the Republican Party figured it would gain from it if he made corrupt deals with Ukraine to dig dirt on Biden.Jan 08 20:57
DaemonFC[m]So they let him go,Jan 08 20:58
DaemonFC[m]This time, their fan club endangered them and sent them running for the fallout shelter under the building.Jan 08 20:58
DaemonFC[m]They're pissed.Jan 08 20:58
DaemonFC[m]They're also dealing with a president who is leaving office in 12 days anyway, who they now do not want to return.Jan 08 20:59
DaemonFC[m]The game has changed.Jan 08 20:59
cybrNaut-this will parallel OJ Simpson.  Got off easy the 1st time for something severe, and will get an ass-woopin' later for something relatively mildJan 08 21:00
cybrNaut-which of course leaves a fucked up precedenceJan 08 21:01
DaemonFC[m]I doubt Pelosi would be going full steam ahead with a new impeachment if she didn't see some gain from it.Jan 08 21:02
DaemonFC[m]If the Senate wouldn't consider it, it would be just as well to let his term expire.Jan 08 21:02
DaemonFC[m]On the upside, Mike Pence finally might get to be the president. For like a week.Jan 08 21:02
cybrNaut-not sure that's an upside.  Pence could give Trump a pardon thenJan 08 21:03
cybrNaut-(i've wondered if that's part of trump's plan)Jan 08 21:04
CrystalMathwhat sane person wants Mike Pence to be president?Jan 08 21:05
CrystalMatheven for a second?Jan 08 21:05
MinceR"republican"sJan 08 21:06
cybrNaut-trump could step down voluntarily, for a brief moment, just to get pardoned.  But now it looks like he can be more stealthy, and get temparily "involuntarily" deposed to get a pardonJan 08 21:06
DaemonFC[m]Technically, he could declare he was incapacitated, but that's dangerous because Pence doesn't have to give it back after he pardons him.Jan 08 21:30
DaemonFC[m]And Pence doesn't even have to pardon him.Jan 08 21:30
DaemonFC[m]Plus, Trump hates looking weak.Jan 08 21:31
DaemonFC[m]It says if the President thinks he should reassume his duties, he can ask Congress, and they have to vote on it....within 21 days.Jan 08 21:33
DaemonFC[m]"In the video he speaks calmly and without any of the emotion he expresses when he means what he is saying. The script was undoubtedly written by one of his lawyers with an eye to being used in court as a defense down the road. In contrast to his usual speeches, there were only two major lies in it, namely, that he was outraged by the mob attacking the Capitol and that when he saw it happening, he deployed theJan 08 21:35
DaemonFC[m]National Guard. "Jan 08 21:35
cybrNaut-i wonder if Trump burnt the bridge with Pence, or does Pence simply view the theatrics as due "pressure" to help Pence save face while neglecting to certify the election.Jan 08 21:49
cybrNaut-sometimes arm-twisting helps politicians do what they secretly want to do anywayJan 08 21:50
cybrNaut-the answer to that would give an idea of whether Pence would pardon TrumpJan 08 21:51
DaemonFC[m]Pence has always had a cold and distant relationship to Trump.Jan 08 21:56
DaemonFC[m]The fact that almost 100 people were infected in the White House Coronavirus outbreak and Pence wasn't one of them shows us how out of the loop he is.Jan 08 21:57
*cybrNaut- has quit (Quit: bailing)Jan 08 21:58
*cybrNaut ( has joined #techrightsJan 08 22:07
*cybrNaut has quit (Changing host)Jan 08 22:07
*cybrNaut (~cybrNaut@unaffiliated/cybrnaut) has joined #techrightsJan 08 22:07
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: Would have helped had the UK not sold off all its gold reserves at the lowest gold prices ever.Jan 08 22:48
DaemonFC[m]I might be wrong, but I think they could have gotten something close to 4x as much money selling them off now vs. when they did.Jan 08 22:48
DaemonFC[m] 08 22:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Trump staffers are worrying about their next job - POLITICOJan 08 22:50
DaemonFC[m]One of them says that by not abandoning their post, they can one day spin their subservience to a president who tried to overthrow America as a good thing.Jan 08 22:50
DaemonFC[m]“A lot of us want to [also] build up a lot of vacation time as possible so we can get paid out what we’ve been planning to get paid out because a lot of us are going to be unemployed for some period of time because it has been an extraordinarily difficult time to get hired,” the official said.Jan 08 22:51
DaemonFC[m] 08 23:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/ | Biden Plans to Release Nearly All Available Doses to Speed Up Vaccinations - The New York TimesJan 08 23:00
DaemonFC[m]schestowitz: From the studies the drug companies published, two doses doesn't seem much more effective than one.Jan 08 23:00
DaemonFC[m]So they're essentially cutting the vaccination rate in half and double dipping.Jan 08 23:00
DaemonFC[m]And I hear that people tend to get sicker after the second dose than they did from the first.Jan 08 23:01

Generated by 2.6 | ䷉ find the plain text version at this address.