Responses to GNOME Foundation's OOXML Statement

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2007-11-25 07:00:25 UTC
Modified: 2007-11-26 01:16:16 UTC

Early weekend's reactions

From BJÃÂ¶rn Lindqvist:

Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

BJÃÂ¶rn Lindqvist Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:11:47 -0800

On Nov 24, 2007 8:27 PM, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > There is no "neutral game" being played here. Concerns were raised that the > GNOME Foundation's participation in EMCA TC45-M suggested that we supported > OOXML becoming an ISO standard. Thus, the answer was simple: We do not.

Well except that our representative on that committee supports OOXML becoming an ISO standard... Please stop the charade, getting involved in the process was a stupid mistake to begin with and continuing to do it while the hypocrisy shines through is just boneheaded. How on earth can offering constructive criticism, feedback and helping develop a specification NOT be supporting it??

From Alan Cox

Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

Alan Cox Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:09:57 -0800

> Don't change the subject. The statement I quoted is trollish. There is > no need to say we are shooting at our own feet repeatedly. Especially > without any argument (I do not mean just text in an email). The > announcement was not neutral.

The perception from outside is very clearly that you are active participants and its being used in that way.

That would appear to be "shooting at own feet"

Perhaps you'd care to critique the relevant points instead of jumping up and down like a small child going "ner ner na ner ner"

Alan

From Rui Miguel Silva Seabra

Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

Rui Miguel Silva Seabra Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:45:32 -0800

Hi,

Funny then, that even after nothing being done by GNOME on TC45 since July (previous to OOXML vote on September 2) ECMA is still claiming GNOME participates in the disposition of comments:

http://www.ecma-international.org/news/TC45_current_work/First%20group%20of%20662%20proposed%20dispositions%20of%20comments%20posted.htm

Yes, the language is deceptive. Careful readers will notice they don't plainly say it, rather they insinuate it. It's one of the main tactics of lying with the truth.

Since the Foundation clearly wouldn't lie about not doing anything since July, here's more evidence of people abusing the role of GNOME Foundation on ECMA's TC45.

The more you guys keep playing the neutral game, the more you'll get abused like this. Don't cry about people who criticize the Foundation's "unconditional support" for OOXML, you're pointing guns at your own feet (and in fact just took another shot).

Rui

I've also received the following by E-mail from a reader who shall remain anonymous:

It's hilarious how he [Jeff Waugh] keeps harping on about contacting him first before publishing anything about Gnome ... like you're not entitled to an opinion without his say so. He wants your questions and dissent driven underground, so it becomes just a private conversation between you and him, thus keeping all those dirty little secrets safe.

I've been following the vast amount of dirt being dug up on Gnome, Novell, OOXML, Waugh, de Icaza, and others over on BN today (your "brainstorm" and link to the Groklaw article were particularly enlightening), and I must admit that even *I* was surprised at how deeply corrupted all the various parties really are. It's much, *much* worse than I originally imagined.

[...]

As for Gnome ... I've read enough just *today* to convince me that I don't want it anywhere near any of my systems ... any more than I'd taint them with Sues€® Linux. I had major problems with Fedora 8, that I'm still working my way through, but once I do finally deploy it across the network, you can be sure that one of the very *first* things I do is wipe Gnome off those systems, even if (as is the case) it means sacrificing some of the GUI configuration utilities shipped by Red Hat and Fedora (they use Gnome/Gtk libs). I'm rather wary of Enlightenment (even though it is excellent) because it rather stupidly (IMHO) uses the BSD license, so I'll be switching to XFCE for now, and possibly KDE at a later stage.

I've been a Gnome user since ... forever, but today it ends. The friendly little Gnome has grown up to become a nasty big Troll.

I was actually very sad to hear this, but we must let such open messages give the impression and justification that BoycottNovell.com is crowd, not a couple of blokes ranting.

One thing I can tell you is that BoycottNovell.com received an unusual level of traffic yesterday (quiet readers, i.e. no comments left). I haven't checked to see where exactly they all come from, but maybe this indicates that we've touched a gentle spot, which I believe we did. There was no trolling or baiting involved. We were merely pointing at various Web sites that show GNOME's role in ECMA, among other things.

Comments

e-2e#t

2007-11-25 09:27:41

Now you have reached another low. After Jeff Waugh has made you look really trollish (it's what you actually are) you don't dare making your hilarious accusations yourself anymore but instead quote readers' e-mails that repeat exactly the ridiculous stuff they've read on your website.

Concerning the anonymous e-mail you've quoted above: Don't act sorry. It was _you_ who has scared this naive user away from GNOME - so take 'pride' in your 'success' here! This is what comes of your slandering blog.

With friends like you, GNOME doesn't need enemies.

Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an abusive Internet troll
TaQ

2007-11-25 12:54:49

It's amazing the way eet and some others make their comments. Seems that there is some kind of pattern, maybe an intensive course for "friends of the interoperability" going somewhere, or at least a little book with all the rules ... oh, wait, they can say the same about us, forget about that. :-)

Well, let's forget about eet for a minute. There are going some really nice discussions about that on some mailing lists, as the GNOME Foundation one, and not just here. Let's watch and see what happens. Really GNOME people, friends of GNOME, people who lived for it's original purpose, talking there. Not us, the "trolls". Maybe you can take a look there and tell us what you think, eet.
Slated

2007-11-25 13:05:08

@e-2e#t

Speaking of "nasty big Trolls" ... with Trolls like you defending Gnome and Novell, they really don't need enemies.

You state that Roy has "reached another low", whereas all he has actually done is quoted other's opinions, including those of some very prominent figures in the community. I suppose you're going to claim that Alan Cox is just a Troll too, are you?

It's time for you to face the fact that Gnome has sold out just as much as Novell has (no surprise there, given the very obvious connections).

At a time when GNU/Linux is starting to win the war against Microsoft, people like de Icaza, Waugh, and others seem determined to stick a spanner in the spokes of the wheel, and sabotage those gains, by playing their part in poisoning GNU/Linux with encumbered Microsoft technology.

The GNU/Linux community should be rejecting OOXML, Sliverlight, .NET, and all of Microsoft's other "sour-grapes" reinventions ... not embracing them. Why anyone in the community would even begin to want to poison GNU/Linux with that technology is a mystery.

I am sick of people on the other side of the argument using excuses like "don't think in black and white terms" and "let's be pragmatic". To Hell with pragmatism. The very foundation of GNU/Linux is idealism ... not "selling out" to the enemy.

People like you will not be content until every GNU/Linux user in the world is required to pay a license fee to Microsoft, and the previously Free software tree becomes closed, proprietary, Microsoft property.

Every time someone in the Free Software community supports Microsoft technology, we take one step closer to oblivion.
Victor Soliz

2007-11-25 14:10:04

"eet" : It may be easy to move the responsibility away from the gnome foundation and blame this site for its mistakes. But the thing is that regardless of this site's ways of reporting, which you keep criticizing it won't change the fact that the gnome foundation is simply not taking the right decisions here.
-ezzzE*t

2007-11-25 16:03:27

Who are you to define 'right'?

You might not have noticed, but GNOME is a representative democracy. Its board is an elected body that has full and legitimate authority to make decisions about its direction. I will never be able to make _everyone_ happy with its decisions, but it listens, and being elected it represents the views of the _majority_ of the people interested enough in GNOME to cast a vote.

Once the board is elected, the board makes the decisions; not a bunch of extremists that just shout loud enough.

Go take part in the board elections, or run for GNOME's board yourself, if you're not satisfied with any candidate.

Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an abusive Internet troll
Roy Schestowitz

2007-11-25 20:03:21

Once the board is elected, the board makes the decisions; not a bunch of extremists that just shout loud enough.

Once again you're trying portray us as crazy barbarians. Don't think that I don't notice your constant nymshifting, E-mail address shifting, and wildly changing IP addresses. If you don't try to be polite, we'll have to delete your comments, since we can't cage them before they are posted with personal attacks and strong language.
Jeff Waugh

2007-11-25 20:06:17

Note that I haven't asked Roy to contact me before publishing anything about GNOME. I have suggested to him that he contact me (or the Board) to do research so that he can post facts (or opinions of the stakeholders involved) instead of posting insinuations.

He has this opportunity because we are an open community. Despite all the ugly attacks, I've kept my door open. He has yet to visit.
Roy Schestowitz

2007-11-25 20:48:38

Jeff,

In a sense, I reach out to GNOME when I research stuff. I don't necessarily write to individuals, but I can read their Web pages and read (even cite) articles they write. When it comes to asking a question, it is hard to know which one/s to ask. The only solution is peer review (send complete text for feedback or editing), which for blog posts and comments isn't quite so pragmatic.
Jeff Waugh

2007-11-25 21:18:22

The only solution is peer review? When you have open access to the stakeholders who know what's going on, and you write such dramatic, combative insinuations? You are attempting to avoid the obvious in every way you possibly can, which is sad for the community you hope to assist.
@w'e"eät

2007-11-25 21:36:26

@Roy Schestowitz: "Don’t think that I don’t notice your constant nymshifting, E-mail address shifting, and wildly changing IP addresses."

You are paranoid. I only change my name here to avoid your censorship. I bet you would be deleting Jeff Waugh's comments already, if you could do that stealthily, Great Defender of our freedom...

Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known, pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll
Roy Schestowitz

2007-11-25 21:38:27

If I asked questions for clarification on issues where there's uncertainty, there would still be some bits that someone is unhappy with. It is not possible to predict what phrase will rub someone the wrong way. For example, an innocent technical misunderstanding can lead to the wrong conclusions. Sometimes, the sources that get cited are wrong (e.g. LinucPlanet on de Icaza intending to rewrite GNOME with Mono). I'm doing the best that I can given the time which is available. Things are moving quickly in the Linux world nowadays.
Roy Schestowitz

2007-11-25 21:41:01

You are paranoid. I only change my name here to avoid your censorship.

Ta muchly for the contradiction du jour.

I bet you would be deleting Jeff Waugh’s comments already..

Never. He is polite. Unlike you, who is going as far as verging Godwin's Law... and you have annoyed other Webmasters as well... ones that deleted you comments and wanted you banned for good.
@w'e"eät

2007-11-25 21:53:16

"and you have annoyed other Webmasters as well" One, to be exact, and yet we still talk/post to one another. He's got class, though he is a lunatic; you are just a slimeball.

Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known, pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll
@w'e"eät

2007-11-25 21:58:17

And BTW, I think Rodney Dawes has has something to say to you:

"Well, for all those people who want to bemoan the world with their trifles about Microsoft trying to subvert the free world, here's a hint:

Shut the hell up!

If all you're going to do is bitch and moan about it, then you're not part of the solution. You're part of the problem." http://wayofthemonkey.com/?date=2007-11-25

Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known, pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll
rlilly@yahoo.com

2007-11-25 22:22:48

Rodney Dawes is from Novell past or present?
Jeff Waugh

2007-11-25 22:27:08

Few in GNOME appreciate Rodney's input.
Roy Schestowitz

2007-11-25 22:39:26

From Rodney Dawes:

"So kudos to those involved in the ECMA OOXML process. More of you should be involved."

*LOL* I can't wait to blog about some of the latest bits from FFII, e.g.:

http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-28334/bundesfinanzhof-wants-less-microsoft

"Microsoft lobbyists should not draft German procurement policies or interpret them legally."

http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-28337/microsoft-sponsors-din-conference

"Microsoft sponsors DIN conference

An american company sponsors a lobby event for its Open XML format which is organised by the German standard body and takes place in a German ministry."

http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-28290/gnome-foundation-in-kahoots

"Gnome foundation in kahoots?

summary:

Having a delegate in the ECMA T45 Committee the Gnome foundation clarified its involvement in a superb standard development and bashes the vendor.

[...]

The Gnome foundation actively participated in the ECMA fast-tracking of Open XML as a sock puppet for Novell. Now the Foundation clarified its position that came under recent criticism."
@w'e"eät

2007-11-25 22:54:17

Really a repulsive little slimeball, isn't he?

Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known, pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll
Rodney Dawes

2008-01-03 18:52:01

Jeff. Please. You aren't GNOME. You're just one of the "people" in it. Plenty of people appreciate my commentary. While you aren't one of them, please do not go slandering like you are speaking for the entire community. There are just as many people who don't appreciate your input, output, or anything else about you either.

But whatever. You know the truth. Those who see short, fall far. But have fun trying to mock me some more. I'm sure your insults will be very professional and appear in other blog comments across the internet as well.
Roy Schestowitz

2008-01-04 06:39:13

Rodney, You're talking to the man who called de Icaza "an embarrassment" and called me all sorts of things as well.

Responses to GNOME Foundation's OOXML Statement

Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

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