Bonum Certa Men Certa

Microsoft Invades Eclipse and Java

Eclipse conference shows a lot of Microsoft

Over the past couple of weeks we mentioned Eclipse on several occasions [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]. IBM, Sun Microsystems and also Microsoft are among the big vendors who find themselves clinging onto developers by staying close to the project. Shortly, IBM will be loosening is grip somewhat.

The warnings we gave in the past are actually related to keynote speakers at this latest event, two of which can be perceived as foes of GNU/Linux. That's 2 out of 3. Here comes an early starter:

Microsoft, Eclipse finally playing nice. What's it mean for developers?"

Milinkovich also declined to provide details of any forthcoming announcement, noting that Eclipse will leave it up to Microsoft to disclose any agreement. Microsoft did not respond to a request for comment on its Eclipse plans.

While Microsoft is unlikely to open-source any core parts of its Visual Studio IDE, analysts said that the vendor could opt to offer its Visual Studio Team Foundation Server (TFS) to the community. Analysts also suggested that Microsoft may decide to work with Eclipse on its next-generation modeling language, which is slated to be part of Visual Studio 2010, which is code-named Oslo.


The announcement has since then been made:

Microsoft to Support Two Eclipse Projects

But how about the following newer headline?

Microsoft cozies to Eclipse, no tongues though

Or this one?

Microsoft to work with Eclipse on Java



Microsoft will begin collaborating with the Eclipse Foundation to improve native Windows application development on Java.


After all the abuses against Java, can Microsoft be trusted at all? What Microsoft brings with it (see [crer 2861 OSI example from yesterday]) is often venom against its rivals. It redefines and 'extends' things to suit its own business objectives. How long before FOSS licenses and ideals get diluted? What about software patents? Simon Phipps is having his cyber-powwow with the OSI nowadays and more recently he brought up some of these issues.

What would be in these two new definitions? Both would need to define what promotes software freedom and how it can be protected. Both would need to be pragmatically principled.
  • An Open Source Patent Definition would do for patents what the OS(C)D does for copyrights. I've posted a lot on this subject before, notably in Protecting Developers from Patents and Ten Reasons The World Needs Patent Covenants, so I'd go mining there for my contributions to the discussion. But it may also be that in addition there needs to be a call for patent law reform, maybe as I outlined in Seven Patent Reforms While We Wait For Nirvana.
  • When it comes to an Open Source Trademark Definition, we would need to similarly define the signs that a developer or user needs to know whether software freedom is being promoted in a trademark policy. I've not written about this yet, but I do believe we need to collectively understand the bounds trademark law places on people who have responsibility for trademarks (read: all developers and open source communities as well as all vendors). We then need to construct a path that promotes software freedom without placing impossible demands on trademark owners to behave in ways that are contrary to their responsibilities.
This is not easy stuff. But I do believe that certain recent events between the open and proprietary software worlds mean that it's time for software freedom fighters to get together and work on these things. I'm ready to work on it. What do you say, Michael?


As we saw before, Sun's views on software patents are worrisome in their owns right. Microsoft is probably a much greater danger however. A reader wrote to share his thoughts on this subject:




[I have] just read this insightful comment on Slashdot, on the news of Perens running for the OSI board. It replies another commenter suggesting that Microsoft should be dealt with diplomacy rather than straightforward rejection to let them enter (infiltrate) the FLOSS community. Thought it might be interesting for you and even useful in the future.

Source:

So in other words, as long as open source(which includes, and requires, a cleaner "process" than Microsoft) wants to fight Microsoft on OSS's own turf(clean process) they lose(not corporate), on Microsoft's own turf(shady legitimacy), they lose, on neutral ground(which I haven't seen yet, as everyone seems to have some form of bias(or can seem to, if you're arguing against them), they also lose.

The opposition from OSS to Microsoft usually stems from people who wanted to be Microsoft friends, and who saw how Microsoft treats its friends/partners. (Long list, from Stacker to kerberos implementations gone wrong, etc...) If you are in OSS, you can see that Microsoft has a history of cheating, you can (with some justification) expect them to try to cheat you, but the business guys expect you to ignore this, or else, YOU are against the corporate ethos? Diplomacy is all well and fine, but it's usually best employed between parties whose good faith is equal.

Let's just agree corporate America isn't ready for open source, I for one am ready for the next debate. Microsoft will not clean up its act without a BIG stick on the nose. So far, it's only got a rolled up newspaper, and only when it got caught red-handed. They have not shown "good faith", they have done damage control. They've never formally renounced "embrace/extend/extinguish" as a modus operandi. This is the people we have to be diplomatic with... Can we just agree we don't want to play, and go home? There's been a very long, bloody history of bad faith(mostly on their part, but yes there have been zealots on the other camp too, however, there's only been casualties on one side), too big to ignore unless something changes(they could formally drop OOXML, and embrace ODF(not in a year, not after the next shareholders meeting, but now!) something LOUD, something that shows they believe in openness(not necessarily open source) that they are willing to face the anger of their shareholders over it. (I've kept fantasizing they'd opensource office instead, but that won't happen that's just a fantasy).


[...]

I already signed the [Bruce's] petition. Let's hope he can make it to the board of the OSI , which is in a process of being infiltrated by Microsoft agents.

http://www.endsoftwarepatents.org




It's very clear -- and been clear for quite some time -- that Microsoft's plan is to be a part of everything and set the rules. That's what the Trust was all about before antitrust laws were introduced.

Recent Techrights' Posts

Doing Free Software for a Living in an Era or a Time of Abundance of Code (and Fast Internet to Pass It Around Freely) or Writing When the Web is Attacked by LLM Slop
Tailoring code to needs is the key
The UEFI hype and Microsoft's lies
By Sami Tikkanen
New Video Clip of Richard Stallman's Latest Visit to and Talks in Italy
Richard Stallman or RMS giving his latest talk last week
For the First Time GNU/Linux is Measured at Over 4% in Europe (Not Counting ChromeOS/Chromebooks)
Europe, on average, is now estimated to have GNU/Linux on 1 in 25 Web-connected laptops/desktops
 
New Series: A Deep Dive Into the Severe Corruption of the Open Source Initiative (OSI), Nowadays a Front Group and Lobbyist of Microsoft
There's a lot to show
Links 03/03/2025: Mass Layoffs in IBM China, Intel Still in Trouble
Links for the day
3 Out of 4 in Cuba Use Linux to Access the Web
Maybe change does come about...
Links 02/03/2025: Day Off, POWER9, Console Challenge
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, March 02, 2025
IRC logs for Sunday, March 02, 2025
Microsoft Windows Falls to All-Time Low in Thailand
We're seeing many all-time records like these so far in 2025
Gemini Links 02/03/2025: Snowdrop Flower and Hostile Leaders
Links for the day
Links 02/03/2025: Microsoft Outlook Goes Offline, Foreign-Owned Social Control Media Interfering With Fair Elections
Links for the day
According to statCounter, Windows Falls Off a Cliff in Maharlika, GNU/Linux Surges to 5%
But mobile is king
Windows Used by Only One in Six Asians to Access the Web, According to statCounter
maybe more governments in Asia should move away from Microsoft
GNU/Linux Reaches 5% in Brazil, an All-Time High According to statCounter
There are hundreds of millions of people in that country
Google Already Dominates the Global South (via Android/Linux)
If one puts aside Russia and east Europe, not many countries exist that still connect to the Web from Windows more than from Android
GNU/Linux Widespread in Finland, Sweden, and Norway
Sweden has many Chromebooks in schools3 nations
Germany's Incoming Leader Said He'd Seek More Independence from the US, GNU/Linux Soars to 6%
Last month it was 5%
Over 2 Years of LLM Hype and Nothing to Show for It
People still use search, not chatbots
Apple's iOS Almost Bigger Than Windows Now (Internationally), Windows Falls to 22% According to statCounter
Without Windows domination, there's not much left going for Microsoft
Putin's Loyal DOGE
We hereby crown Arvind Krishna "Putin's DOGE"
The Media Barely Reported This (Late Friday): IBM Lays Off About 2,000 More Workers, Effective Hours Ago
Maybe some diversity programs can help IBM recruit slaves or grossly-underpaid staff
Microsoft Money Being Spent to Bully Techrights Only Legitimises Techrights
The longer it goes on for, the greater the Streisand Effect
Suing One's Way Out of Real Trouble Won't Work (It Merely Increases the Trouble)
"Guns for hire" in London can only issue "legal" threats
Microsoft Writing Articles About Microsoft, Using Microsoft LLMs
Right now there are many articles about Microsoft Outlook being down completely
Gemini Links 02/03/2025: OFFLFIRSOCH 2025 and Programming
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, March 01, 2025
IRC logs for Saturday, March 01, 2025
Another Day and Another LLM Slopfest From Madame Day at the Slopfarm LinuxSecurity.com
Can't take a break, can she?
Sucking Up to Fascists (Like IBM's Watson Sucked Up to Adolf Hitler in the 1930s) Did Not Help IBM
IBM could stick to better principles, but instead it treats the Free software community and even its own staff like trash
Links 01/03/2025: GB News Loses Over 100 Million Pounds, Zelensky Wins World's Sympathy
Links for the day
Getting Serial Sloppers to Knock the Habit of Plagiarism by LLM Slop
All in all, the fewer the slop objects, the better
As Prices Soar and Services Shut Down (Even YouTube Starts Demanding Money for the Original or a Tolerable Experience) It's Time to Explore the Real Alternatives
https://inv.nadeko.net is the most viable instance of Invidious these days
Gemini Links 01/03/2025: Amends and GNU/Linux
Links for the day
Links 01/03/2025: Scam Altman's Latest Excuse, Google Price Hikes
Links for the day
Justice Will Find Its Way at the End
We deserve an award, not SLAPP, for what we've done
March Already, Rumours of IBM Layoffs in Brazil
Red Hat might be impacted too
Links 01/03/2025: Squashing Software Patents, USPTO Facing Additional Cuts
Links for the day
Links 01/03/2025: UNM Gopher and Getting One's Pages on gemini://
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, February 28, 2025
IRC logs for Friday, February 28, 2025