Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 20th, 2008



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dsmith_http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/oper...Jun 20 07:07
dsmith_interestingJun 20 07:07
dsmith_hello allJun 20 07:07
schestowitzIt's Vista really. WIth tweak. It's another build.Jun 20 07:08
dsmith_one thing I have noticed just tonight, how can MS keep up? I just updated Ubuntu 8.04 today and ran my updater, 132 updates over all, 214MBJun 20 07:08
dsmith_yea I knowJun 20 07:08
dsmith_my last update was 16-days agoJun 20 07:08
*dsmith_ wonders how mnay programmers MS hasJun 20 07:09
schestowitzWindows 7 is built in India. I think Windows is /said/ to be managed by hundreds, but it  depends on you divide it. Windoiws' leaders left.Jun 20 07:10
schestowitzValentine, Poole, Allchin -- all gone!Jun 20 07:10
dsmith_heh indiaJun 20 07:11
dsmith_india is like totally MS, but its all bootleg copiesJun 20 07:12
dsmith_so I hearJun 20 07:12
dsmith_and now Gates..Jun 20 07:13
schestowitzShirley too.Jun 20 07:14
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dsmith_http://www.physorg.com/news13313...Jun 20 07:24
schestowitzThe headhunter: it's baaaaaack.Jun 20 07:25
dsmith_lolJun 20 07:28
schestowitzhttp://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/artic... "Latest release of Novell's Linux lags behind Red Hat and Ubuntu," Sean Michael KernerJun 20 07:48
PetoKrausi like how it states "novell's linux"Jun 20 07:52
schestowitzNo, no, it's totally independent from Novell. You know, like 'Open' XML has nothing to do with Microsoft, just ECMA and ISO.Jun 20 07:54
PetoKraus:)Jun 20 07:54
dsmith_well gnJun 20 08:03
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dsmith_imap for gmail is coolJun 20 08:04
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kentmahi allJun 20 08:05
PetoKraushmm, that silverlight @ olympicsJun 20 08:06
PetoKrausd'oh!Jun 20 08:06
schestowitzGood: http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0... ! Jun 20 08:06
kentmaThe olympics has been for sale for a very long time.  There's nothing much amateur about it any more.Jun 20 08:06
PetoKrauswell, i didn't know about it till nowJun 20 08:06
kentmaoh, sorry, I wasn't trying to criticise you, it was just an observation.Jun 20 08:07
kentmaschestowitz: wow, they've really returned to form;  Novell remain a 100% proprietary software company by philosophy, and appear determined to make all of their wares look like that.Jun 20 08:08
PetoKrauskentma: no worries :)Jun 20 08:08
schestowitzIt's good that Slashdot brings it to people's attention a day after the launch. Watch the comments. You know, when SCO started the lawsuit, many people believed them too (or so I hear).Jun 20 08:11
PetoKrauswhee, new ati driver in portage. BBL folks...Jun 20 08:11
schestowitzThe comments here are also telling: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slash...Jun 20 08:11
schestowitz<PetoKraus>, new Larabel interview here: http://www.linux.com/feature/138463Jun 20 08:12
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kentmasome of the debate about whether one could even apply an Eula to GPLed code is very interesting.  My feeling is that Novell are probably exceeding their legal position here, but it never seems to stop the proprietary folk.Jun 20 08:13
schestowitzThis was discussed in BN.com. Have you seen it yet?\Jun 20 08:14
kentmano..Jun 20 08:14
PetoKrausseems like the new ATI driver fixed some rendering bugs. Good, good!Jun 20 08:14
kentmaPetoKraus: good!  I hope nvidia also go foss soon.Jun 20 08:14
PetoKrausbrbJun 20 08:15
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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/11... About SLED/S too: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... Jun 20 08:16
schestowitz<kentma> , I think NVIDIA has a big announcement on the way but it's embaraoed *wink wink*Jun 20 08:17
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PetoKraussorry for traffic :PJun 20 08:29
PetoKrausthis happens every monthJun 20 08:29
PetoKraushmm, well, this definitely is not good :)Jun 20 08:31
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PetoKrausso, that driver is NOT good :PJun 20 08:31
schestowitzAre you falling off the line?Jun 20 08:31
PetoKrausno, restarting X server :PJun 20 08:32
schestowitzThere's this new article: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?p...Jun 20 08:32
schestowitzMy ATI driver seems good. It's only rarely that I might find (for a few millisecs) the cursor on both screens. Very unusual and only if pointed at particular spots. Maybe recurring once a month for a few seconds overall.Jun 20 08:34
PetoKrauswell, the driver works fineJun 20 08:34
PetoKrausi guess the warcraft 3 is buggered in some wayJun 20 08:34
schestowitzGates & Group want the kids to eat Windows ('cakes') and they get flak now: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...Jun 20 08:34
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PetoKrausnow, this is my provider.Jun 20 08:42
PetoKrausQoS = 0Jun 20 08:42
schestowitzMine is excellent. Hardly ever a downtime or slowdown.Jun 20 08:44
kentmaI'm on the end of some ancient copper, and it can be a bit variable, particularly when it rains.Jun 20 08:49
kentmaschestowitz: to you get Bernard Golden's newsletter?Jun 20 08:54
kentmaschestowitz: I meant "do you"Jun 20 08:55
schestowitzNo, is it of relevance to more than virtualisation? That's what he's focused on based on what I can gather.Jun 20 08:56
kentmaschestowitz: Bernard's into the whole open-source thing, his newsletter is pretty general.  The last one has a lot about ooxml, odf & vista's problems.Jun 20 08:57
kentmaI've just forwarded the last one to you.Jun 20 08:59
schestowitzThanks a million. I tend to subscribe to RSS (keeping it all in one place), so I'll try to find out if I'm missing something.  Bernard Golden took some serious shots at OOXML before. He also exposed some damaging slides from Microsoft last year.Jun 20 09:03
schestowitzDocument formats are an important prerequisite to FOSS adoption, so Bernard, like many others, need to pay more attention to it. :-) By the way, if you search BN.com for his name, you'll see what I'm referring to. It was damaging to Microsoft at the time.Jun 20 09:04
kentmaI'll take a peakJun 20 09:05
schestowitzPeek?Jun 20 09:06
kentmano, I'm climbing mountains today :-)Jun 20 09:06
schestowitzI'm not sure anymore.Jun 20 09:06
kentmaIt was my typo.Jun 20 09:06
schestowitzSometimes I see the same typo in so many places that I begin to believe it's not a typo. This is one example.Jun 20 09:06
kentmaCommonly made errors remain errors!Jun 20 09:07
schestowitzThere's also sneek. "Sneek Peak" is common. I see these typos once in a few weeks/months, which becomes confusing.Jun 20 09:07
kentmaIt's the way one's memory works.  It's really useful, in general, but repeated errors become accepted fact.  This is why propaganda can be successful it its not countered.Jun 20 09:08
kentmaifJun 20 09:09
schestowitzYes, Big Lie. I hate that.Jun 20 09:09
kentmait'sJun 20 09:09
kentmaThe whole of marketing is based around that idea, though.  Besides, real philosophers don't believe in "truth" :-)Jun 20 09:09
schestowitzI was a lot more pedantic when it comes to typos before 2004 (own typos). Then I realised that it just took away a lot of valuable time and was no fun anyway.Jun 20 09:10
schestowitzA lot of people write and rewrite their text, then proofread. Thus, they don't write (publish) much. It's neither fun nor fast. It's a big burden that's hard to take off one's back (decline in quality for pace). Of course, there's a cost too.... like doing a one-hour podcast without preparing at all. :-(Jun 20 09:12
kentmaI do try to get things right, because typos, grammatical errors and so on serve to reduce the quality of communication, and even make reading & absorption much more difficult for the recipients of the communication.  Of course, redaction takes time, so we must seek a balance :-)Jun 20 09:12
schestowitzThe balance I define based on where the output goes (USENET, IRC, blog, press, academic journal, thesis).Jun 20 09:13
kentmaQuite right too!Jun 20 09:14
*kentma off, back soon.Jun 20 09:14
schestowitzJudgement of wisdom based on articulation _absolutely must_ take into account the time invested in the writing. On the Internet, this 'time' is an invisible factor. Or as one smart saying goes, "on the Internet, noone knows you're a dog until you bark."Jun 20 09:14
kentmaIt wasn't so much about the  judgement, more the comprehensibilityJun 20 09:57
schestowitzI'm not sure. Text is like accent, _especially_ on the net when there's nothing vocal. People are prejudiced and make assumptions based on it.Jun 20 10:01
schestowitzPut differently, on the Internet, your text is your appearance, assuming you have no Web site.Jun 20 10:02
kentmaWell, it's all they have, so to a great extent, unavoidable.  The lack of physical gestures, coupled with enormous culture clash, result in some fascinating flame wars.Jun 20 10:02
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schestowitz<PetoKraus >, still tinkering with X? ;-0Jun 20 11:22
PetoKrausyesJun 20 11:22
PetoKrausthe new AMD proprietary driver doesn't play well with WineJun 20 11:22
schestowitzHow's it coming along?Jun 20 11:22
schestowitzTry it when it's sober then.Jun 20 11:23
PetoKrauswell, the new driver fixes lots of rendering issuesJun 20 11:23
schestowitzMaybe it needs some more work. The Tux on the box is nice, but not as valuable as a good driver.Jun 20 11:24
PetoKraussuch as... some GTK widgets, open office display bugs, wine itself has better rendering of windows. But when wine tries to access DRI, then it borks up the display. On the other hand, Nexuiz doesn't do thatJun 20 11:24
PetoKrausi don't think the problem is on AMD's site this timeJun 20 11:24
schestowitzWould RaedonHD (from *cough* Novell) deal with WoW? Surely not yet...?Jun 20 11:24
schestowitzDid you get Wine 1.0?Jun 20 11:25
PetoKrausyesJun 20 11:25
PetoKrausschestowitz: i think the support for DRI is half-finishedJun 20 11:25
PetoKrausi am scared of the transition thoughJun 20 11:25
schestowitzHave you asked Michael?Jun 20 11:25
PetoKrausabout the transition to radeonhd?Jun 20 11:26
PetoKrausnot yetJun 20 11:26
schestowitzHe's on FreeNode ATM.Jun 20 11:26
PetoKrausrightJun 20 11:26
schestowitzIf it's a bad driver, write an article for him or help his make a plea using one. AMD could use the prodding. Bug reports are nothing compared to the "Phoronix effect".Jun 20 11:27
PetoKrauswell i am not sure whether it's a bad driverJun 20 11:28
PetoKraussince wine is the only app which works badJun 20 11:28
schestowitzI never rely on Wine. I installed it once before, but no point to it...Jun 20 11:30
PetoKrauswellJun 20 11:30
PetoKrausi can't play warcraft 3 otherwise :PJun 20 11:31
schestowitzDoes WoW use OGL or DX?Jun 20 11:32
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schestowitzThere's a danger here because Wine patches (e.g. Google for PhotoShop) are not necessarily the way forward; Google should help GIMP instead; likewise, WoW Linuxers should complain to Blizzard, not to Wine devs.Jun 20 11:49
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schestowitzPetoKraus, you were offline when I sent the last message, so I'm pasting it:Jun 20 13:19
schestowitz<schestowitz> Does WoW use OGL or DX?Jun 20 13:19
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schestowitz<schestowitz> There's a danger here because Wine patches (e.g. Google for PhotoShop) are not necessarily the way forward; Google should help GIMP instead; likewise, WoW Linuxers should complain to Blizzard, not to Wine devs.Jun 20 13:19
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PetoKrausi think W3 can use both, DX and OGLJun 20 13:41
PetoKrauson Mac OS X it uses OGLJun 20 13:41
schestowitzSo they could port to GNU/Linux. Some people say (no, don't look at me) that Wine sort of stands in the way of happy living with a native port.Jun 20 13:43
PetoKrauswellJun 20 13:43
PetoKrausi guess adobe is of that opinionJun 20 13:43
PetoKrausthey could port photoshop easilyJun 20 13:44
PetoKrausi mean, it would be brilliant, since, photoshop is one of the few apps which hold people on WindowsJun 20 13:44
PetoKraus(they are lazy to learn Gimp)Jun 20 13:44
schestowitzAdobe is screwing Linux users. latest example that I'll write about later: http://www.pcworld.com/article...Jun 20 13:45
Eruaranhi allJun 20 13:46
EruaranI think Adobe are screwing themselvesJun 20 13:46
PetoKraushmm no linux?Jun 20 13:46
PetoKraus:/Jun 20 13:46
PetoKrausah wellJun 20 13:46
PetoKrauswe need HTML5Jun 20 13:46
PetoKrauswidely adopted HTML5Jun 20 13:47
EruaranThe poor state of their own app development was exposed when Apple decided to drop some legacy stuff... Adobe complained basically because they haven't developed their software enough for most of this decadeJun 20 13:47
Eruarancocoa and stuff ?Jun 20 13:47
EruaranSooner or later free software projects will overtake Photoshop simply becuase Adobe have spent the best a number of years producing poor quality software at high prices and their codebase is ageing rubbish.Jun 20 13:49
PetoKrausyeahJun 20 13:49
PetoKrauswhy would you want Adobe Media Player anyway?Jun 20 13:52
Eruaranas in flash ?Jun 20 13:53
PetoKrausno, see roy's last lineJun 20 13:53
EruaranahJun 20 13:54
schestowitz?Jun 20 13:54
schestowitzBy the way, I've just received some inside information about Novell. I'm checking to see what I can share in public.Jun 20 13:55
EruaranI haven't found anything more on the maxbur storyJun 20 15:09
schestowitzI have some coming on that topic. The rest I just need to check before posting.Jun 20 15:10
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schestowitzI really wish I could post everything I know, but I'm going to post just bits of  it so as to avoid exposing the sources.Jun 20 16:56
EruaranPosting on the site ?Jun 20 16:58
schestowitzI don't know yet. I'm taking some notes, but I'll need to think twice about it. It's damaging to some companies that weaken Microsoft.Jun 20 16:59
EruarankJun 20 17:00
schestowitzIt's really the same old story but with more proof. The collusion also appears to be broader than just Novell and Microsoft.Jun 20 17:01
schestowitzI suppose you could coin a phrase to say the Nokia-isation of Free software, which is different from FS->OSS. It takes it a step further.Jun 20 17:02
Eruaranbuying up companies that do free software ?Jun 20 17:03
schestowitzNo, not that. Taming them morelike.Jun 20 17:05
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/...  (BTW, Erwin has just quit Sun)Jun 20 17:06
EruaranI'm not impressed by people who say 'we think GPLv3 is great', without actually moving to it. Its just lipservice.Jun 20 17:13
schestowitzHe said this to me after I cited a CBR interview he did where he defended staying with GPLv2.Jun 20 17:18
[H]omerevening allJun 20 17:34
EruaranhiJun 20 17:35
[H]omerHas anyone here been struck by having to agree to a "GPL EULA" on any recent Linux distros? Like when installing the OS, or starting Firefox for the first time?Jun 20 17:36
[H]omerI've heard rumours that this is becoming a trendJun 20 17:37
[H]omerI don't like itJun 20 17:37
EruaranI noticed something like that with Firefox 3Jun 20 17:37
[H]omerATM all FF3 installs are direct from the Mozilla WebsiteJun 20 17:38
[H]omerSo I'm not too bothered just nowJun 20 17:38
[H]omerBut when you start seeing this in the distros, start to worryJun 20 17:38
[H]omerIt states quite clearly in the GPL that "acceptance is not a condition"Jun 20 17:38
[H]omerNow I would expect this in commercial distros like RHELJun 20 17:39
[H]omerBut not so-called community distrosJun 20 17:39
EruaranApparrently it has been around since 1.5, just not shoved in the users face.Jun 20 17:41
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EruaranThere is a copy of it on Slated: http://slated.org/firefox...Jun 20 17:45
EruaranDoesn't look like free software to meJun 20 17:55
schestowitzFirefox has not been Free software for quite so time (or ever). The extensions are often worse in that regard, but I am not too concerned as long as it's stealing IE's lunch and less of Konqueror's (and others).Jun 20 18:00
EruarangtgJun 20 18:03
schestowitzI'll post parts of what I know over the weekend. The rest I can talk about by E-mail.Jun 20 18:08
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schestowitzThe BBC continues the charade ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcin... ). Recently it was Erik. So the people resort to unacceptable waste of taxpayers' money, snub GNU/Linux, lie to the press and now they show us photos of Linux and hope for forgiveness. What utter BS.Jun 20 18:59
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schestowitzwb. cozub, RogerBaconJun 20 19:51
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RogerBaconhey ;)Jun 20 19:58
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RogerBaconjust installed open suse 11Jun 20 20:02
RogerBaconits awesomeJun 20 20:02
RogerBacon!Jun 20 20:02
RogerBacon:DJun 20 20:02
schestowitzIt looks nice, but our protest is not one that relates just to technical merit.Jun 20 20:02
RogerBaconi was kidding ;)Jun 20 20:03
schestowitzAh... okay, I was not sure because some people who use OpenSUSE are actually against Novell... and we still have some people here who come to spy or troll. ;-)Jun 20 20:04
RogerBaconyep, it's kinda hard to detect sarcasm over  IRC too ;)Jun 20 20:05
schestowitzPerhaps it's handy to test OpenSUSE for 'stress testing' too. On my old machine, which had SUSE 9.3 (before Novell deal), Reiser self-destructed.Jun 20 20:07
RogerBaconlike ReiserFS itselfJun 20 20:08
RogerBacon...Jun 20 20:08
maxstirnerlike reiser :DJun 20 20:09
schestowitzWell, yeah... the funny thing is that root wouldn't mount upon booting and you're then left with hardly even the power of the CLI. You do, however, see a semi-advert for Hans' little company that's centrered around the FS.Jun 20 20:09
maxstirneri had some nightmarish days with suse back in the dayJun 20 20:09
schestowitzI had problems with SUSE (8.1) on a different PC of mine but only because the hard-drive went titsup (physical defects).Jun 20 20:10
maxstirnerthat would have been around 9.something as well.. a friend installed it saying its the easiest for newbies (widest availability of rpms)Jun 20 20:11
schestowitzAt the end of the day, it's all the same components. A friend mailed me some hours ago to say he installed Yoper and loves it! (more than Mandriva)Jun 20 20:11
maxstirnertrying to do anything myself was a nightmare for AGES aka. dependency hellJun 20 20:11
maxstirneryoper?Jun 20 20:11
schestowitzHere's what he wrote: "Yoper, small fast and lean like a Linux desktop should be. Plays DVDs straight out of the box. I tried tweaking Mandriva, disabling processes etc, but Mplayer always crashed out or went into slo-mo mode with the sound out of sync. It must really run like the blazes on decent hardware. Check it out ..."Jun 20 20:12
maxstirneri think so too, getting around to large apt-repositories on ubuntu (later debian) really made the linux experience FUN as opposed to agony suffered to maintain personal MS boycott crusade :DJun 20 20:12
schestowitzWell, I think of it as an escape from more than just the O/SJun 20 20:13
maxstirneri686 compiled, i seeJun 20 20:13
schestowitzThere's covergence involving science, culture and technology. Your O/S can be part of things that prohibit access to media, for example.Jun 20 20:13
maxstirnerinitially i wanted to escape XP, later it turned more sophisticated :DJun 20 20:14
maxstirneri got linux installed before having heard of RMS for instanceJun 20 20:14
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schestowitzit's truly hilarity how everyone suddenly /loves/ XP, because of Vista. People used to nag about it.Jun 20 20:15
maxstirnerwhat are you on these days, schestowitz? debian?Jun 20 20:15
schestowitzSame here (re: RMS, GPL, etc.)Jun 20 20:15
schestowitzFedora and Ubuntu.Jun 20 20:15
maxstirneri think thats part of the vista-induced desperation. they never want to mention linux, or even apple in the mainstream pc mags. (this changing a bit now)Jun 20 20:15
maxstirnerso instead of writing "vistasaster massive opening for GNU and even overpriced apples"Jun 20 20:16
maxstirnerthey write "keep xp petitions"Jun 20 20:16
schestowitzYes, I saw this in the BBC.Jun 20 20:16
schestowitzIn fact, I'll write about this later.Jun 20 20:16
maxstirneri can just see a massive landslide around the corner any time (year of linux desktop type)Jun 20 20:17
RogerBaconwhat's so bad about XPJun 20 20:17
RogerBacon*VistaaJun 20 20:17
schestowitzYes, the UK and US will be last to evolve, sadly.Jun 20 20:17
maxstirnerits shite thats all :)Jun 20 20:18
RogerBaconvista is *** craJun 20 20:18
RogerBaconpJun 20 20:18
RogerBacon;)Jun 20 20:18
schestowitzBTW, we all use the same 'Linux'... in my case it's just Linux+X+KDE+Firefox+Thunderbird... you get the picture. The distros are quite irrelevant. Packaging is important though.Jun 20 20:18
maxstirneri set up new pc with dual core this and that vista to replace 2002 xp pc. first words from pc-illiterate mother (during boot!): "its even slower than the last one"Jun 20 20:18
schestowitzhttp://beranger.org/index.php?page...Jun 20 20:19
schestowitzThat's regrading the US/UK. Also http://beranger.org/index.php?pag... Angry man, but he often gets it right and says the darnest things.Jun 20 20:19
maxstirnerpackage-manager helps a lot doesnt it.. my main desktop on gnome, i'm still on the run from kde after suse experience. i'd really love a customised icewm or something like that..Jun 20 20:19
maxstirnerinflation up really worrying.. india 11%.. official fuel price up 20% in china.. been getting into some inflation-hedging funds right now.Jun 20 20:20
RogerBacon*** NICEJun 20 20:20
RogerBacon...Jun 20 20:20
RogerBacontime to buy some canned food ?Jun 20 20:21
schestowitzI'm all set.Jun 20 20:21
schestowitz:-)Jun 20 20:21
maxstirnerare we a little bit concerned?Jun 20 20:22
RogerBaconwe shouldJun 20 20:22
schestowitzIt depends. Perspective.Jun 20 20:22
schestowitzI'm personally indifferent. It's all just economic, consumption and spendings.Jun 20 20:22
maxstirnerend of empire due soon no doubt.. :DJun 20 20:23
schestowitzMake that plural.Jun 20 20:23
schestowitzRegardless of my own welfare or convenience (so long as I have food on my table), I would love to see people in developing countries living in parity.Jun 20 20:24
RogerBaconNO SHI*Jun 20 20:24
RogerBaconi still want to drive my HUMMERJun 20 20:24
maxstirnerthis is absolutely true of course. the thing is they just get US-type development patterns. food crisis already there for many peopleJun 20 20:25
maxstirnerif you life on 2 USD a day, and spend 90% of that on rice, doubling in price rather significantJun 20 20:25
schestowitzThe world sometimes seems like a Grand Apartheid and also somewhat of a pyramid scheme (or class-divided at the least). The hypocrites would of course deny. Let them eat VIsta...Jun 20 20:25
RogerBacontime to be friendly with Bill GatesJun 20 20:26
schestowitzI'll try. :-)Jun 20 20:26
maxstirnerreckon :D i think his USD wont be worth much in a minuteJun 20 20:26
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schestowitzBill will have a new career soon: writing checks.Jun 20 20:26
RogerBaconit's alerady worth nothing ...Jun 20 20:27
schestowitzCountry leaders can be exploited for their poverty in order to sign deals. There was a huge crusade like this at the start of the year. It stopped after a month. Gates did a world tour of 'kill Linux'Jun 20 20:27
maxstirneri think youre saying for their lack of first-world type wealthJun 20 20:28
maxstirneri attended public school with a bunch of bangladeshi and nigerian princes. no idea where their funds come fromJun 20 20:28
schestowitzMaybe they killed some Mandriva deal. ;-)Jun 20 20:29
maxstirnerthe bolivian chap, morales, lowered his own presidential income (and that of all mps) to meet average local incomeJun 20 20:29
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworlduk.com/manag...Jun 20 20:30
*RogerBacon NSA as joined this channelJun 20 20:30
*schestowitz NSA is now known as JerryJun 20 20:31
RogerBaconsay hello to them guy's ;)Jun 20 20:31
RogerBaconso, the NSA is legaly spying on american, that's right ?Jun 20 20:31
schestowitzIt's the law. It cost a lot and caused a riot. But it's the law now.Jun 20 20:32
RogerBaconwhere's the liberty of this country now ?Jun 20 20:32
schestowitzI suppose you heard about Canada and the DMCA. Mickey Mouse is buying some laws up north.Jun 20 20:33
RogerBaconI live here, so, yeahJun 20 20:33
RogerBaconin QuebecJun 20 20:33
RogerBaconthat's why my english is so badJun 20 20:33
RogerBaconhttp://www.boingboing.net/2008...Jun 20 20:34
schestowitzI was in Montreal some years back. I met this girl I had been chatting online with since we were 15. Some people there don't speak English at all.Jun 20 20:34
maxstirnerwas it romantic?:PJun 20 20:36
maxstirnercanada competing with UK to become 51st stateJun 20 20:36
RogerBaconi will leave this country before it happenJun 20 20:36
RogerBaconi will move to swedenJun 20 20:36
RogerBaconnotJun 20 20:37
schestowitzWell, it was a November (in Canada), so it was cold, but yes, it was quite okay.Jun 20 20:37
RogerBaconhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi...Jun 20 20:37
schestowitzI know a guy who fled Sweden and went to the US because he didn't like the government.Jun 20 20:37
maxstirnerthe UK won with the "United States No. 1 (2003). Extradition Treaty. between the Government of the. United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ..."Jun 20 20:37
maxstirnerunilateral extradition! :DJun 20 20:38
maxstirnerthat's the first bad news i've picked up from sweden everJun 20 20:38
schestowitzThey didn't have any terrorism there, did they? Why wiretapping?Jun 20 20:40
maxstirner"the controversy stems from the absence of any reciprocal arrangement in respect of the United States. Therefore at the present time there is no requirement on the U.S. to provide prima facie evidence when requesting the extradition of UK residents"Jun 20 20:40
maxstirnerto the US, where they may be killed by the gov, which is against European human rights act btwJun 20 20:40
maxstirnerseems to be fashionable schestowitz, they babble on and on about that. i even spotted a short one on TV here where the boarder agency was complaining about the lack of personnel to prevent terrorism at ports. terrorism obv unheard off here, so theyre probably just trying to get bigger budget to steal more tax money.Jun 20 20:41
maxstirner(here = brazil that is)Jun 20 20:42
RogerBaconnow you know why peopel dislike americaJun 20 20:42
RogerBaconmission acoomplished ?Jun 20 20:42
maxstirner"The controversy surrounding the United States' lack of reciprocity noted above is a result of the failure of the U.S. to ratify the US-UK Extradition Treaty 2003 into U.S. law."Jun 20 20:42
schestowitzIs that new at all? The US is under pressure. That might explain predatory expansionism.Jun 20 20:43
RogerBaconnew world orderJun 20 20:43
schestowitzWell, I'm sure Gordon Brown would have something to say about it in the next Bilderberg meeting.Jun 20 20:44
maxstirnerthe current world order is under pressure due to the oil prices.. a geopolitical analysis of recent warfare for resource control relevant yesJun 20 20:44
schestowitzWait, I'll get a video for you.Jun 20 20:44
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?...Jun 20 20:44
maxstirnerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_a_... recommend an apocalyptic documentary, lovely stuffJun 20 20:44
maxstirnerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T... this one fantastic as wellJun 20 20:45
maxstirnerplease dont kill me for being off-topic ;) i'm sure novell have got their dirty fingers in there as well :DJun 20 20:46
schestowitzWell... I thought about the [OT] thing too. In general, there's somewhat of a PC industry collusion at many levels.Jun 20 20:46
RogerBaconI hope people will finished by stand up and claim their right !Jun 20 20:46
schestowitzNovell is part of a broader family.Jun 20 20:46
schestowitzWhich is a shame because they grabbed S.u.S.E. and brought it to Waltham.Jun 20 20:47
maxstirnerOT? i just get worked up about the 2 decades of bundling monopolyJun 20 20:47
schestowitzYes, that too. Have you followed MS vs South Africa recently?Jun 20 20:48
maxstirneras per your site ;-Jun 20 20:48
maxstirner;-)Jun 20 20:48
schestowitzCompTIA and the rest of 'the Gang' hopped in as well. India too... Microsoft + Indian partners loot a nation of a billion people. Amazing.Jun 20 20:49
schestowitzSee what yook kin said about Malaysia. It was a similar story. They called it "awesome"... how awesome it is that one company and its allies can take over the world and bully resistance.Jun 20 20:49
maxstirnerthe negative impace of licensing fee remittances (balance of trade) is really a huge imperative for FOSS adoption (beyond the sheer cost savings)Jun 20 20:50
maxstirnerBUT the local partners get part of the cake, which is then used to effectively control the local politicans who want to send their sons to learn maths and play rugby in cambridgeshireJun 20 20:50
maxstirnerits like colonialism really :DJun 20 20:51
schestowitzWell, modern type of it -- yes.Jun 20 20:51
schestowitzWhat's irksome is characterisation of opposition as bigoted, dissident, zealous, religious, fundamentalist, etc.Jun 20 20:52
maxstirneri'd do that if my cake was under attack :DJun 20 20:52
schestowitzI haven't a clue why RMS is still based where he is and how he can manage the anger. Well, he travels a lot these days, so... Remember that not only the software industry is afraid of RMS and the message he spreads. Jun 20 20:53
maxstirnerwhere would one go? I wouldnt want to live in the US, but MIT prob one of the more civilised placesJun 20 20:54
schestowitzYes, he lives in an island'.Jun 20 20:55
schestowitzGosh, I hate glorification pieces like this one ( http://specials.rediff.com/m... ). Gist: without Microsoft, there would be no PCs; Gates is a geniusJun 20 20:59
schestowitzAnd here is some more self-glorification from the USDoJ, where Microsoft has tremendous control (provable): http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/a...Jun 20 21:01
maxstirnerapplauding! :DJun 20 21:03
schestowitzWhat @?Jun 20 21:03
maxstirnerFederal and state antitrust authorities applauded Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) Wednesday for a "substantial reduction in royalties"Jun 20 21:04
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Jun 20 21:05
schestowitzYes, did you see my posts showing the Microsoft insiders in DoJ? From other sources I am also told they did this around Netscape era. It's just like Lessig describes it, but his Change Congress project seems to be nowhere.Jun 20 21:05
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maxstirnerwon't change, its like the house of lords :DJun 20 21:05
schestowitzI've also just realise that while Microsoft buys many companies (more employees) we can expect a revenue rise, whereas the bank balance goes thin (about 2$6B after spending up to $45 buying its own stock).Jun 20 21:06
schestowitzI'd need to look at the corruption index sometimes. Jun 20 21:07
RogerBaconbush new friends : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSl1r...Jun 20 21:08
schestowitzDeputy Education Minister Kircho Atanasov  also: http://www.sofiaecho.com/article/col...Jun 20 21:10
maxstirnerfavourite bit from "the ruling class" http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmh2KpsvN8w ;)Jun 20 21:10
schestowitzAt least it's civilised. No chairs thrown, you know?Jun 20 21:14
maxstirnerfantastic filmJun 20 21:14
schestowitzI'm going through hundreds of articles about Microsoft at the moment. The company really lacks output. It used to have a lot more a year ago.Jun 20 21:15
maxstirner-> gymJun 20 21:20
*maxstirner has quit ("Leaving")Jun 20 21:20
schestowitzMicrosoft+Disney: http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/0... (Does Steve Jobs know about this?)Jun 20 21:20
schestowitzGartner footwork: http://www.networkworld.com/... ( Will startup NAC vendors be flattened by Cisco and Microsoft? )Jun 20 21:23
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Recent Techrights' Posts

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Over at Tux Machines...
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