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| schestowitz | OpenOffice.org Extensions That Make It Very Powerful: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/9-mus... | Dec 25 00:14 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, moralist | Dec 25 00:14 |
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| moralist | hi | Dec 25 00:22 |
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| schestowitz | http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_s_09_Out... "As soon as big countries (like China, Russia etc) move their government and educational institutions we'll see a significant growth of Linux market share. China has plans to do this by 2010. Russia is already doing this in schools. Germany has a good adaption of Linux already and continues expanding it." | Dec 25 00:54 |
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| schestowitz | Jeff Gould attacks RMS: "What's corrupt about Stallman's moral sloganeering is that he condemns the pursuit of self-interest by others in order to promote his own equally self-interested goal of replacing the free market by some kind of high-minded collectivism." http://www.interopnews.com/analysis/fl... | Dec 25 02:04 |
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| MinceR | gn | Dec 25 02:04 |
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| MinceR | Jeff Goa'uld | Dec 25 02:05 |
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| schestowitz | That Microsoft shill makes me sick. | Dec 25 02:05 |
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| schestowitz | gn and merry xmas | Dec 25 02:18 |
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| Eruaran | Merry Christmas | Dec 25 05:01 |
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| kentma | Merry xmas | Dec 25 05:46 |
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| vida18 | merry christmas ! | Dec 25 09:36 |
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| schestowitz | u2 | Dec 25 09:41 |
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| vida18 | thank you | Dec 25 09:43 |
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| schestowitz | Poll: 23 percent say Cheney worst vice president ever < http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-ne... > | Dec 25 10:05 |
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| trmanco | LOL | Dec 25 10:16 |
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| trmanco | and Linus does it again | Dec 25 10:17 |
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| schestowitz | Cursing? | Dec 25 10:17 |
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| trmanco | he released Linux 2.6.28 yesterday | Dec 25 10:17 |
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| schestowitz | Eek. | Dec 25 10:17 |
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| schestowitz | Nogrealase. | Dec 25 10:17 |
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| schestowitz | Where's the changenog? | Dec 25 10:17 |
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| trmanco | right before Christmas :-P what a present | Dec 25 10:17 |
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| trmanco | let me look for it | Dec 25 10:17 |
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| schestowitz | No, never mind | Dec 25 10:18 |
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| trmanco | http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/... | Dec 25 10:18 |
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| schestowitz | 6MB | Dec 25 10:20 |
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| schestowitz | canceled. Where's the announcement? | Dec 25 10:20 |
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| trmanco | don't know | Dec 25 10:20 |
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| trmanco | wait | Dec 25 10:20 |
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| trmanco | I find it | Dec 25 10:20 |
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| schestowitz | Ta | Dec 25 10:20 |
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| schestowitz | Phoronic probbaly has linkage | Dec 25 10:20 |
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| schestowitz | *ronix | Dec 25 10:21 |
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| trmanco | found it http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&... | Dec 25 10:22 |
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| trmanco | LOL | Dec 25 10:23 |
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| trmanco | he has a big sense a humor | Dec 25 10:23 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks. | Dec 25 10:26 |
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| trmanco | what happened to this -> http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2... | Dec 25 10:28 |
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| trmanco | it is not working | Dec 25 10:28 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe he deleted it?? | Dec 25 10:34 |
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| schestowitz | No cache: http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:http%3A... | Dec 25 10:35 |
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| schestowitz | He deleted it. http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/ | Dec 25 10:36 |
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| schestowitz | LockerGnome is a Microsoft-ish site anyway. It's run by a Microsoft MVP, so... Can't curse the Don there.. | Dec 25 10:37 |
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| trmanco | :| | Dec 25 10:37 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, you got a nice present from the trolls, sort of | Dec 25 10:39 |
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| trmanco | looks like you are doing a great job :-P | Dec 25 10:39 |
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| schestowitz | They are nervous. | Dec 25 10:39 |
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| trmanco | LOL | Dec 25 10:41 |
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| trmanco | getting fired? :-P | Dec 25 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | http://groups.google.com/group/co... | Dec 25 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | "Slit their fucking ignorant throats. All of em. " | Dec 25 10:42 |
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| schestowitz | That's "ezekiel" (he had dozens of names, including "Vista King"). He went on like this for ages, calling to slip the "ignorant throats" of Linux users or something. It's scary how radical some people this people are. | Dec 25 10:42 |
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| schestowitz | They went ballistic when Vista was released, saying it would "kill" Linux. Hehe. Vista almost killed Microsoft and opened the door to Linux (and XP). | Dec 25 10:43 |
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| trmanco | and others too | Dec 25 10:43 |
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| schestowitz | I'd rather not reply to this nutjob. His real name is Scott Douglas, he's Canadian and I have more information that can easily pin him down. Same with Gary... they might get sued one day. | Dec 25 10:46 |
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| trmanco | :| | Dec 25 10:48 |
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| trmanco | "One nice thing about OpenSource is that the developers try to | Dec 25 10:54 |
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| trmanco | produce what users want, not what corporate marketeers want. | Dec 25 10:54 |
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| trmanco | MS have a thing or two to learn..." | Dec 25 10:54 |
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| schestowitz | India's PC Market Flat Despite Growth in Notebooks < http://www.pcworld.com/article/156017/indias_pc_ma... > | Dec 25 10:54 |
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| schestowitz | /s/corporate marketeers/MAFIAA\/NSA/ | Dec 25 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | http://beranger.org/blogo23/Tab.png | Dec 25 11:15 |
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| schestowitz | http://beranger.org/blogo23/Brian.png http://beranger.org/blogo23/Nate.png | Dec 25 11:15 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: nice comment in Beranger. I hope the site won't vanish like Technocrat. | Dec 25 11:21 |
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| trmanco | LOL | Dec 25 11:25 |
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| MinceR | geekings | Dec 25 12:41 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: I wrote about the Gates post going AWOL: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/25/l... | Dec 25 12:49 |
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| trmanco | LOL | Dec 25 12:56 |
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| trmanco | I like the last video | Dec 25 12:56 |
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| schestowitz | It's annoying to watch. It shows the type of character he is behind closed doors: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/... | Dec 25 13:01 |
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| trmanco | the last part of that video is hilarious | Dec 25 13:02 |
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| schestowitz | Message to Maritz | Dec 25 13:04 |
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| schestowitz | He's in VMware now. | Dec 25 13:04 |
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| schestowitz | They cut the best part out though. | Dec 25 13:04 |
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| schestowitz | He then proceeds to talking about how to kill Netscape | Dec 25 13:04 |
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| schestowitz | He's speechless. | Dec 25 13:04 |
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| schestowitz | bbl | Dec 25 13:05 |
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| trmanco | ok | Dec 25 13:06 |
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| Omar871 | trmanco: Who talked about how how to kill netscape? | Dec 25 13:53 |
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| trmanco | Gates | Dec 25 15:01 |
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| kentma | Merry xmas everybody | Dec 25 15:19 |
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| trmanco | Merry Christmas to you too | Dec 25 15:20 |
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| schestowitz | I had a good chat this afternoon about coverage in the press about the situaton | Dec 25 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | Some people think that the press exaggerates -- not underplays -- the severity of issues in order to scare people. Some people suppress it or are in convenient denial. | Dec 25 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | BTW, if anyone is sick and tired of the financial talk here (recession/depression), please say something and I'll stop this. I assume people care about it, but I could be very wrong. :-S | Dec 25 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | TuxMachines has a very smooth migration (didn't notice any downtime). Susan will hopefully keep up the wonderful work she does. It feeds some many other news site, mine included (BN links are sometimes found there). | Dec 25 16:25 |
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| trmanco | is tuxmachines drupal? | Dec 25 16:41 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it is. | Dec 25 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | I hope she'll continue running it when time permits. I see promotion of FOSS also as an ethical obligation. :-) She does it all day and she loves it. | Dec 25 16:42 |
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| trmanco | are the posts manual or automated? | Dec 25 16:43 |
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| schestowitz | Manual of course. | Dec 25 16:44 |
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| schestowitz | Whose would be automated? It's another case of Microsoft Munckin slander. | Dec 25 16:45 |
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| schestowitz | Like me /ALLEGEDLY/ changing sexes or something. They try to say that I run a bot | Dec 25 16:45 |
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| trmanco | no none of that | Dec 25 16:45 |
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| schestowitz | If only they could attack the message and not make fictional things up to attack a messenger with libel. | Dec 25 16:46 |
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| schestowitz | Anyway, here's an iffy one about Mandriva: http://envoymoon.blogspot.com/2... | Dec 25 16:46 |
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| trmanco | I was just asking because I would like to build a drupal website to work as a aggregation service | Dec 25 16:46 |
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| schestowitz | There's another one about OpenSUSE, but benJIman et al would slam me if I criticise it too much | Dec 25 16:46 |
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| trmanco | LOL | Dec 25 16:46 |
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| schestowitz | OpenSUSE is a Novell project, but they use 'community' defence to shield it from critics. | Dec 25 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: she's skilled at doing this manually and so am I. After doing this for years you find patterns of work that make it easy to spot good stories and important paras. | Dec 25 16:47 |
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| trmanco | this is great then | Dec 25 16:49 |
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| trmanco | a lot of dedication and effort put into helping the foss community | Dec 25 16:50 |
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| schestowitz | Not with code anymore. | Dec 25 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | I used to program a lot, but stopped around 2006 | Dec 25 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | I still program for personal needs, but nothing that's of much use for me to put on schestowitz.com like I used to (or MATLAB Central or Mozilla) | Dec 25 16:52 |
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| trmanco | I'm starting | Dec 25 16:52 |
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| trmanco | The 10 Coolest Open Source Products Of 2008: http://www.crn.com/it-channel/212501022;jsess... | Dec 25 16:52 |
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| trmanco | I lot a novell stuff in there | Dec 25 16:52 |
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| schestowitz | Better to enhance existing apps | Dec 25 16:52 |
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| trmanco | I would like someday to be a packager | Dec 25 16:52 |
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| trmanco | maybe a MOTU for Ubuntu | Dec 25 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | Who wrote this? | Dec 25 16:53 |
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| trmanco | don't know | Dec 25 16:53 |
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| trmanco | it just popped up in my feed reader like this | Dec 25 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | I used to be in touch with Brent Core who volunteered in Ubuntu. | Dec 25 16:53 |
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| trmanco | thats nice | Dec 25 16:55 |
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| schestowitz | No OpenMania in http://old.ubuntu-pt.org/planet/ | Dec 25 16:56 |
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| trmanco | New GNU licence delayed: http://www.itwire.com/content/... | Dec 25 16:56 |
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| trmanco | nop | Dec 25 16:56 |
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| trmanco | I don't even follow that | Dec 25 16:56 |
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| trmanco | I am here tho >> http://planetuga.com/ | Dec 25 16:56 |
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| schestowitz | http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rbeqbj-n1Z0/SVHhdSo-iiI/... | Dec 25 16:56 |
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| trmanco | it is hard to read | Dec 25 16:57 |
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| trmanco | :-P | Dec 25 16:57 |
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| schestowitz | Nice site design. | Dec 25 16:57 |
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| schestowitz | "Thursday, 29 March 2007" | Dec 25 16:57 |
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| trmanco | where did you see that? | Dec 25 16:58 |
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| trmanco | weird | Dec 25 16:58 |
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| trmanco | how did that pop into my feed reader :| | Dec 25 16:58 |
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| trmanco | sorry for that, I should have checked the date :| | Dec 25 16:59 |
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| schestowitz | It has PR0 | Dec 25 17:00 |
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| schestowitz | It's amazing how old content goes off the radar. | Dec 25 17:01 |
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| trmanco | :O | Dec 25 17:01 |
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| trmanco | do you still read Asay? | Dec 25 17:01 |
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| schestowitz | BN is indexed properly. | Dec 25 17:01 |
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| schestowitz | On the other hand, schestowitz.com used to have about 100,000 pages index, but now it's only about 10,000. Google is making changes to distribute resources. | Dec 25 17:01 |
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| schestowitz | No, I don't read Asay, but I communicate sometimes. Maybe I'll get back to it, but he was just annoying me too much, so I decided to read it only when other sites link to posts | Dec 25 17:02 |
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| trmanco | it is always changing | Dec 25 17:02 |
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| trmanco | sometimes for a better google and other times for a bad google | Dec 25 17:03 |
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| schestowitz | What is\? | Dec 25 17:03 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, Google-wise.. ues | Dec 25 17:03 |
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| schestowitz | yes | Dec 25 17:03 |
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| schestowitz | The danger for some sites is dependence on it. | Dec 25 17:03 |
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| trmanco | Microsoft gearing up for layoffs? Let's hope not: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505... | Dec 25 17:03 |
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| schestowitz | Google went through the tech/Net bubble and surged to the top | Dec 25 17:03 |
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| schestowitz | I like Google only as a tool because it's immensely powerful for research | Dec 25 17:04 |
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| trmanco | yes | Dec 25 17:04 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: hope not???/ | Dec 25 17:04 |
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| schestowitz | Or its this th ehadline? | Dec 25 17:04 |
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| trmanco | yes I was about to say something about that | Dec 25 17:04 |
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| schestowitz | I was going to post about it today, but it's Christmas, you know? | Dec 25 17:04 |
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| schestowitz | You can't tell 10,000 Sorfties that they'll get sacked | Dec 25 17:04 |
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| trmanco | yes, that post is from today and it is from Asay btw | Dec 25 17:05 |
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| schestowitz | BN got like 1000+ visits this month from people who search Google for Microsoft layoffs (and variations thereof) | Dec 25 17:05 |
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| trmanco | LOL | Dec 25 17:05 |
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| trmanco | people are worried? | Dec 25 17:05 |
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| trmanco | maybe | Dec 25 17:05 |
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| schestowitz | Asay is sucking up | Dec 25 17:05 |
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| schestowitz | He has to cooperate with Microsoft | Dec 25 17:06 |
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| schestowitz | He talks to them every day, IIRC. He talked about this in that latest audicast | Dec 25 17:06 |
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| schestowitz | See, that's just another reason for me to ignore that blog. He tries to artifically add balance to please the employer | Dec 25 17:06 |
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| schestowitz | The other thing to name this is "sellout" | Dec 25 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | When you write to please interests rather than being blunt and truthful | Dec 25 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | He wants Microsoft to go away, trust me. | Dec 25 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | He just can't write "Microsoft implodes! Hurray!!" in CNET | Dec 25 17:07 |
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| trmanco | that would be bad for cnet | Dec 25 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Dec 25 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | It's sponsored by Paul Allen | Dec 25 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | Or was.. | Dec 25 17:08 |
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| trmanco | yes I understand what you are saying | Dec 25 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is the main advertisers | Dec 25 17:08 |
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| trmanco | people can't write freely | Dec 25 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | They even signed a Vista promotion deal just over a year ago | Dec 25 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | Matt mailed me when he moved to CNET | Dec 25 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | I used to comemnt a lot in his InfoWorld blog (also the personal at blogspot) | Dec 25 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | So he asked why I didn't comment in CNET and I told him it's a Vole-owned garbage dump (not in these words) | Dec 25 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | Two months ago I also trashed the CNET feed. It was FILLED with Microsoft adverticles. | Dec 25 17:09 |
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| schestowitz | And Apple ones too. Apple advertises there too. CNET is a whore of big companies. | Dec 25 17:09 |
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| trmanco | do do it for the money | Dec 25 17:10 |
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| trmanco | the do* | Dec 25 17:10 |
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| trmanco | they do* | Dec 25 17:10 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Dec 25 17:10 |
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| schestowitz | Not for morality | Dec 25 17:10 |
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| schestowitz | Not for informing readers | Dec 25 17:10 |
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| schestowitz | They are paid by CNET, BUT | Dec 25 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | I recently watched a very good video | Dec 25 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | The gist of it is that reported perfume it to themselves that they say the truth | Dec 25 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | Like in Internet, like in TV or radio | Dec 25 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | They need to convince themselves that nobody pressured them to write in a certain way | Dec 25 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | The response to this is that since kindergarten we are taught never to say certain things. | Dec 25 17:12 |
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| schestowitz | Like a taboo | Dec 25 17:12 |
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| schestowitz | So if you submit something to a US journal you can't claim Cuba to be suppressed by the US | Dec 25 17:12 |
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| schestowitz | It would be fine in any other country in the world (only the US has an embargo because it's terrified of independence in Latin America) | Dec 25 17:12 |
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| schestowitz | So anyway, the story goes like this.. | Dec 25 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | When a reporte approaches a subject there is the almost subconscious knowledge and awareness of response from the paymaster. | Dec 25 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | There's lot of this in the AMerican media which is biased by omission | Dec 25 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | As Lessig puts it, when there is money on the table, trust vanished | Dec 25 17:13 |
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| schestowitz | *nishes | Dec 25 17:13 |
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| trmanco | it is like and advertising scam/scheme | Dec 25 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Dec 25 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | But it's more subtle | Dec 25 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | They are not paid directly. | Dec 25 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | Take Mary Jo for exmaple | Dec 25 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | She writes about Microsoft, right? | Dec 25 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | In her disclosure she says nothing, BUT | Dec 25 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | In order for her career as a reporter to succeed she must have Microsoft that's strong and wealthy | Dec 25 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | So that in its own right is a disclosure. | Dec 25 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | For me too, had Free software failed, then a lot of my effort would be wasted. | Dec 25 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | But Free Software is no company | Dec 25 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | Some call it a social 'scam'... an attempt tthat motivates many-- leaders of countries included -- to go down this route | Dec 25 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | In a similar vein, when the SCO thing was over, Groklaw lost some of its charm | Dec 25 17:16 |
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| schestowitz | You might fairly point out that it was in PJ's interest to have it carry on although she wanted them to sink | Dec 25 17:17 |
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| schestowitz | Good poem: http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/will-commerciali... | Dec 25 17:17 |
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| schestowitz | Good poem: http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/will-commercialis... | Dec 25 17:17 |
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| schestowitz | He was here in IRC yesterday. | Dec 25 17:18 |
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| trmanco | oh yeah | Dec 25 17:20 |
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| trmanco | I remember him | Dec 25 17:20 |
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| schestowitz | All these issues are connected | Dec 25 17:20 |
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| schestowitz | kentma used to point out that separating them is wishful thinking | Dec 25 17:21 |
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| trmanco | http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=6... | Dec 25 17:29 |
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| trmanco | OS X user moves to Ubuntu | Dec 25 17:29 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I have examples of this | Dec 25 17:30 |
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| schestowitz | post it to cola | Dec 25 17:31 |
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| trmanco | I'll be posting some more experinces on cola | Dec 25 17:31 |
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| trmanco | experiences* | Dec 25 17:31 |
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| trmanco | yes I will | Dec 25 17:31 |
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| schestowitz | "Thinking beyond the Vole.." so to speak | Dec 25 17:31 |
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| schestowitz | A thought... something occurred to me: why is debt referred to as credit? That's like drugs being described as medicine. | Dec 25 17:40 |
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| schestowitz | "it's not a loan, it's credit"... he's got "good credit" (=bad loan)... "If thought can corrupt language, then language can also corrupt thought." --George Orwell | Dec 25 17:42 |
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| kentma | I re-read 1984 recently. It remains an amazing work, as relevant today as when it was written. I wonder if the US will ever be able to have a president who couldn't call on billions of dollars... Such posts should not be for sale. It breeds corruption. | Dec 25 17:50 |
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| kentma | I hope that the EU doesn't end up looking like the US in this respect. | Dec 25 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | Hasn't it already? | Dec 25 17:53 |
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| schestowitz | At least the UK is not a one-party state (in elections too) like the US | Dec 25 17:53 |
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| schestowitz | Where Biden (pro-RIAA, pro-war) is seeded along with other pro-war staffing chief, than appointing a public figure that's supposedly handsome and symbolic of a slogan like unity|hope|destiny | Dec 25 17:54 |
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| schestowitz | *then | Dec 25 17:55 |
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| kentma | sarkozy is the worst thing we have at th emoment. | Dec 25 18:08 |
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| kentma | There was an interesting feature on the local guelph radio station last night about GM crops, monsanto and the position of HMCG | Dec 25 18:10 |
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| kentma | Basically, the point was made that there's been more or less zero real testing of GM crops, nobody really knows what the impact of them will be, but Monsanto have invested loads of cash and want to make some back. | Dec 25 18:11 |
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| schestowitz | Sarko is like Bush in a way. He has wide support for his ignorance that he imposes upon others. | Dec 25 18:12 |
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| schestowitz | Fun readings: http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2008/12/11/take-some-... | Dec 25 18:17 |
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| kentma | Hmm, I'll take a look. | Dec 25 18:18 |
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| kentma | Sarko is a lot like bush, although I suspect that he's a bit more intelligent. | Dec 25 18:18 |
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| schestowitz | Sarko's 'IP' policies if what I'm most familiar with. http://torrentfreak.com/open-source-tor... | Dec 25 18:19 |
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| schestowitz | He tries to censor the loud opposition he gets as well (mostly from the Internet I'd imagine). You know, he banned voodoo dolls bearing his face... or maybe his 'friends' banned these. | Dec 25 18:20 |
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| kentma | He's technically inept, like Blair, Bush and Brown. We could do with some more technically able people in power, rather urgently, in fact. | Dec 25 18:20 |
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| kentma | I can't really see how he could ban a doll... | Dec 25 18:20 |
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| kentma | How can you be a public figure and expect to control your image? | Dec 25 18:21 |
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| schestowitz | Lawyers are like that. Good at talking, just don't ask them technical things. What's Sarko's professional bg? | Dec 25 18:21 |
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| kentma | Good question, I suspect that he's another lawyer | Dec 25 18:21 |
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| schestowitz | They are good at sneaking out of questions too. Debating techniques and all.. | Dec 25 18:21 |
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| kentma | Lots of good training for it. | Dec 25 18:21 |
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| schestowitz | My older boss was skilled at it, claiming credit for ideas too.. | Dec 25 18:21 |
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| kentma | Scientists, in the end, have to deliver, lawyers only have to talk. | Dec 25 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarko | Dec 25 18:22 |
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| kentma | Ah, claiming credit is a common trait of the weak-minded. | Dec 25 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | Layers are the mouths of scientists | Dec 25 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | Just look at patent lawyers | Dec 25 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | Leeches to the victims, hounds to the hirers | Dec 25 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | kapipi: other PhD students of his claimed the same thing | Dec 25 18:23 |
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| schestowitz | He must convince himself that he wrote all the papers and came up with all the ideas. I don't know about other professors. | Dec 25 18:23 |
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| kentma | I dont' agree with all of that, rather, I'd say that lawyers are the mouths of investors, not scientists. | Dec 25 18:23 |
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| kentma | Ah, that's how he remains a prof, I'm sure... | Dec 25 18:23 |
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| schestowitz | "Nicolas Sarkozy is the son of an aristocratic [5] Hungarian immigrant father, Pál Sárközy de Nagy-Bócsa[6] (Hungarian: Nagybócsai Sárközy Pál; some sources spell it Nagy-Bócsay Sárközy Pál; Hungarian pronunciation (help€·info) [nÃâßáÃÂboÃÂtáÃÆÃâi ÃÆaÃÂrkøzi paÃÂl]), and a mother of French Catholic and Thessalonikan Sephardi Jewish[7] descent, Andrée Mallah" | Dec 25 18:24 |
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| schestowitz | "Sarkozy's political career began at 22 when he became a city councillor in Neuilly-sur-Seine. A member of the Neo-Gaullist party RPR, he went on to be elected mayor of that town, after the death of the incumbent mayor Achille Peretti." | Dec 25 18:25 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, found it. | Dec 25 18:25 |
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| schestowitz | Law school!! | Dec 25 18:25 |
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| schestowitz | Sarkozy was enrolled in the Lycée Chaptal, a state-funded (public) middle and high school in Paris's 8th arrondissement, where he failed his sixième. His family then sent him to the Cours Saint-Louis de Monceau, a private Catholic school in the 17th arrondissement, where he was reportedly a mediocre pupil,[14] but where he nonetheless obtained his baccalauréat in 1973." | Dec 25 18:26 |
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| schestowitz | "He enrolled at the Université Paris X Nanterre, where he graduated with a Master in Private law, and later with a DEA degree in Business law." | Dec 25 18:26 |
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| schestowitz | You know who else is a lawyer? Matt Asay, a self-proclaimed advocate of FOSS who spends a lot of time talking about Macs and business, but none about code, design and comparisons that descend below UI level. This reminds me of Scoble. | Dec 25 18:27 |
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| kentma | Yeah, I was just reading the same bit, he is another lawyer. | Dec 25 18:27 |
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| schestowitz | http://scobleizer.com/2006/03/04/bette... | Dec 25 18:28 |
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| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2006/03... "Scoble only understands computers as a user, rarely realising the underlying issues in depth. He is no developer and no great writer either, yet his reputation and momentum, as well as being outspoken and critical of Microsoft while being paid by them is what makes him somewhat exceptional. His reputation is overrated." | Dec 25 18:28 |
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| kentma | I wonder if the time is right for some professional institutions to start putting up their own candidates for parliamentary seats? the way things are going, we're going to have lawyers running everything. So much for magna carta... | Dec 25 18:28 |
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| kentma | Yeah, I've seen some of his writings. As you say, the misunderstanding of technology doesn't add much. | Dec 25 18:29 |
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| kentma | Unfortunately, I think that the IET might be too far gone to be recoverable as a useful technical entity. | Dec 25 18:30 |
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| schestowitz | Run by lawyers... you know who works in MAFIAA, right? | Dec 25 18:30 |
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| kentma | ? | Dec 25 18:30 |
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| schestowitz | No wonder people like Sarko and Brown push for their wishlist, e.g. 3-strike.. | Dec 25 18:30 |
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| schestowitz | It's lawyers for lawyers, with lawyers. | Dec 25 18:31 |
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| kentma | Indeed, they think that they can legislate for technical issues, they don't understand that technology sets the agenda, and law must try to keep up. | Dec 25 18:31 |
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| schestowitz | Did anyone ask the artists (singers) how they feel? Not the 70-year-old rock star and Nancy Sinatras, but the YOUNG artists that want to break through. | Dec 25 18:32 |
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| kentma | You can make as many laws as you like, but you'll not defeat relativity, for example. | Dec 25 18:32 |
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| schestowitz | Gates too was a lawyer, you know? | Dec 25 18:32 |
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| kentma | Absolutely, but youtube and the internet are the nemesis of the traditional perveyours of popular light entertainment. | Dec 25 18:32 |
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| kentma | Yes, I was aware, at least his dad was, anyway. | Dec 25 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | His dad had friends in high places... he also employed Abramoff with his govt. connections for many years. | Dec 25 18:33 |
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| kentma | Sadly, science is taking an increasing rear seat in these issues. It's seen as a business tool, rather that something critical to the development and future of mankind. | Dec 25 18:34 |
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| kentma | Than | Dec 25 18:34 |
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| schestowitz | That's IPR | Dec 25 18:34 |
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| schestowitz | Why develop? | Dec 25 18:34 |
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| schestowitz | Let's just sit down and discuss litigation, transactions of err... knowledge and so on and so forth. | Dec 25 18:34 |
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| kentma | The IPR laws are the modern equivalent of the catholic church's approach to astronomy | Dec 25 18:35 |
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| schestowitz | This is new: http://media.ffii.org/ActaEpDebate081217/ | Dec 25 18:35 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab uploaded it | Dec 25 18:35 |
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| schestowitz | <zoobab> we need to split them | Dec 25 18:35 |
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| schestowitz | <zoobab> per speaker | Dec 25 18:35 |
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| schestowitz | <zoobab> and even split per "evil sentences" | Dec 25 18:35 |
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| schestowitz | <zoobab> the problem is that each time they talk about "counteirfeiting" and "piracy", it applies to patent infringements | Dec 25 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | <zoobab> keep this in mind | Dec 25 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | Programmers are "pirates" and they DON'T EVEN KNOW IT | Dec 25 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | New from the news: | Dec 25 18:36 |
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| kentma | Quite... | Dec 25 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | Date: December 25th: http://news.techwhack.com/9554-cygnus-systems "Indiana based Cygnus Systems has filed a lawsuit against the three giants Microsoft, Apple and Google claiming that they are infringing on a patent owned by them. The patent is related to file preview technology which gives the user a view of a file before it is opened." | Dec 25 18:37 |
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| kentma | Oh god, here we go again... | Dec 25 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | December 25th, not April 1st | Dec 25 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | Bradley M. Kuhn: "However, that wasn't the first thing that came to mind. Instead, I thought immediately of Microsoft's presence at OSCON this year and the launch of their campaign to pretend they haven't spent the last ten years trying destroy all of Free Software and Open Source." | Dec 25 18:40 |
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| schestowitz | "Never forget why they are making the offer. Microsoft is unique among proprietary software companies: they are the only ones who have actively tried to kill Open Source and Free Software. It's not often someone wants to be your friend after trying to kill you for ten years, but such change is cause for suspicion." | Dec 25 18:40 |
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| schestowitz | http://seeknuance.com/2008/12/16/i-wont... | Dec 25 19:09 |
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| trmanco | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iVIE1... | Dec 25 19:47 |
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| schestowitz | I'll oggify it, thanks! | Dec 25 19:48 |
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| trmanco | well | Dec 25 19:50 |
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| trmanco | XP has a use | Dec 25 19:50 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe not, it's boring | Dec 25 19:50 |
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| schestowitz | I watched just the first few secs | Dec 25 19:50 |
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| trmanco | it just one image with a fancy song | Dec 25 19:50 |
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| trmanco | btw, the image is nice too | Dec 25 19:50 |
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| trmanco | wow | Dec 25 19:51 |
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| trmanco | headshot ! | Dec 25 19:51 |
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| *schestowitz does damage control | Dec 25 19:52 |
| *schestowitz listens to samba today | Dec 25 19:52 |
| schestowitz | we lost loggerbot too | Dec 25 19:52 |
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| schestowitz | Its logs says it lost eveyone. | Dec 25 19:53 |
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| schestowitz | Dec 25 19:36:01 <trmanco>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iVIE1a... | Dec 25 19:53 |
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| trmanco | hey | Dec 25 19:53 |
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| trmanco | what | Dec 25 19:53 |
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| schestowitz | back. | Dec 25 19:53 |
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| trmanco | :) | Dec 25 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | It's interesting to check, via scp/ssh how the other node responds. | Dec 25 19:54 |
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| trmanco | Linux rules them all -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-22EpQOm8c | Dec 25 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | logger_bot is at my office. | Dec 25 19:54 |
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| trmanco | and I thought I had survived this earthquake | Dec 25 19:54 |
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| trmanco | :| | Dec 25 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | That's a bad one, I saw it before. | Dec 25 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | You did, but it's the other nodes that lost everyone. | Dec 25 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | It's a global thing. | Dec 25 19:56 |
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| trmanco | I don't understand much about this kind of stuff | Dec 25 19:56 |
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| trmanco | hey slated | Dec 25 19:56 |
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| trmanco | 1 sec | Dec 25 19:56 |
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| schestowitz | Some people's server that they are assigned to crashes or reboots | Dec 25 19:57 |
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| schestowitz | If you are not on this server, than all is well. | Dec 25 19:57 |
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| schestowitz | It crashed again. | Dec 25 19:57 |
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| trmanco | weird | Dec 25 19:57 |
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| -tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all, one of our hubs just disappeared taking services with it. We're looking in to the cause now. | Dec 25 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Had it not been Christmas there would be a global.. | Dec 25 19:57 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. beat me to it. | Dec 25 19:58 |
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| schestowitz | By 2 seconds. | Dec 25 19:58 |
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| -tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all. The connectivity problems seem to be resolved and services are back online. Sorry for the disturbance and thank you for using freenode. | Dec 25 20:09 |
| *Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect | Dec 25 20:15 |
| *Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect | Dec 25 20:43 |
| schestowitz | This dude doesn't know that Barron's is Microsoft's (already-sorta-busted) fan press: http://seekingalpha.com/article/111747-barron-s-thin... | Dec 25 21:09 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft binary mess in Office: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/25/techno... | Dec 25 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft professionals are such rookies that even girls below 10 can become one: http://gizmodo.com/5116747/9-year-old-girl-bec... Are they taking pride in the entry level? | Dec 25 21:13 |
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| MinceR | lol | Dec 25 21:15 |
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| schestowitz | it devalues the whole thing | Dec 25 21:15 |
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| schestowitz | "Mom, dad, look! I passed my MS exam, just like that 3rd grade student" | Dec 25 21:15 |
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| schestowitz | MS NTFS can't do SSD properly... fragmentation... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28357662/ | Dec 25 21:16 |
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| MinceR | hm, fragmentation shouldn't be such a great problem on ssd, should it? | Dec 25 21:17 |
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| schestowitz | SSD works better in Linux than in any other O/S, bar legacy stuff. | Dec 25 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | Dana gets trolled by the Munckins for a Microsoft-Nixon comparison: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=3224 | Dec 25 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | I can't make posts about these observations. | Dec 25 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | About that girl... people would easily name this racism|sexism|hatred of kids. It's one of those targets whom you can't criticise, ain't it? | Dec 25 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | The Vista boosters from InfoWeek (the crime/collusions memos show this) sing for the thief: Global CIO: Remembering Bill Gates: A Faraway Look At The Larger-Than-Life Legend < http://www.informationweek.com/news/management/inte... >. Yes, legend... Madoff too was a legend. | Dec 25 21:23 |
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| MinceR | i guess hitler was a legend, too | Dec 25 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | The Preston shill moves on from attacking Linux to attacking Google Apps: http://blogs.computerworld.com/google_... Preston Gralla, like Ed Bott, writes stuff for a living to support the Vole. | Dec 25 21:26 |
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| schestowitz | This is a very funny headline: Microsoft Puts The Royal Navy Under Water < http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/hti... > Sunk already?? | Dec 25 21:28 |
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| schestowitz | Earlier on today I heard this giant lie about Microsoft creating jobs. It's akin to that lie about OLPC 'selling point' being kids who write and modify code... anyway, Microsoft did not create job. It /destroyed/ jobs and companies to limit competition (=less jobs) and deliver bad technology under fewer jobs in a single umbrella. | Dec 25 21:32 |
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| trmanco | is this true >> http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/... | Dec 25 21:35 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is bribing some gaming sites, but I don't recall which one.. http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory... | Dec 25 21:36 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: I wouldn't try it. | Dec 25 21:37 |
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| trmanco | I won't | Dec 25 21:37 |
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| trmanco | I'm just asking | Dec 25 21:37 |
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| trmanco | I really don't want a 64-bit os yet | Dec 25 21:37 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft finds new homes: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Interview/M... | Dec 25 21:38 |
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| schestowitz | Prepare for Gates to lie some more about Americans being 'too stupid' to programmers and thus the need to bring the jobs to people who are paid $500/month | Dec 25 21:39 |
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| schestowitz | As the recent research on Abramoff shows, Billy and his daddy used some political corruption to buy that Visa legislation. Absolutely appalling. He should be sent to exile for treason. | Dec 25 21:39 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: it seems like an update that doesn't get pushed from the packagers at Canonicals... or at least not tested. I always think twice about changing kernels. | Dec 25 21:40 |
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| schestowitz | What's in 2.6.28 that you desperately/urgently need anyway? | Dec 25 21:41 |
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| trmanco | I'm not changing kernels | Dec 25 21:42 |
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| trmanco | I'm sticking with Ubuntu's updates here | Dec 25 21:42 |
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| trmanco | at home | Dec 25 21:42 |
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| schestowitz | About Gates, here's how to look at it: he steals jobs, destroys companies by breaking laws (then paying some fines), then repels his own countrymen for being too expensive (he just calls them stupid instead) and now he just moves to China. Why again are people like Trump and Gates looked up to? Oh, that's right. They bought media companies that thrive in greed. | Dec 25 21:44 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: go for it if there's something to be gained. | Dec 25 21:44 |
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| trmanco | at school | Dec 25 21:45 |
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| trmanco | maybe | Dec 25 21:45 |
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| trmanco | on FC9 | Dec 25 21:45 |
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| schestowitz | Mission-critical? | Dec 25 21:45 |
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| trmanco | Linus says he can compile his kernel in 15 second IIRC | Dec 25 21:45 |
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| schestowitz | Does he still use a Mac h/w? | Dec 25 21:45 |
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| trmanco | don't know | Dec 25 21:46 |
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| schestowitz | He's feeding the Bad Apple. | Dec 25 21:46 |
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| trmanco | what do you mean? | Dec 25 21:46 |
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| schestowitz | He pays Apple for his Fedora computer | Dec 25 21:47 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft Plans To Cut Jobs By 10 Percent < http://www.newsoxy.com/microsoft/... > | Dec 25 21:47 |
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| trmanco | really? | Dec 25 21:47 |
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| trmanco | weird | Dec 25 21:48 |
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| schestowitz | Not really. Wait... | Dec 25 21:49 |
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| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-135... :-) | Dec 25 21:50 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.macobserver.com/article/20... | Dec 25 21:50 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/soa/Torval... "Linux creator Linus Torvalds said this afternoon that he's now running an Apple Macintosh as his main desktop, mainly for work reasons, although partly simply because he's a self-described "technology whore". " | Dec 25 21:51 |
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| schestowitz | "" | Dec 25 21:52 |
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| schestowitz | "As to the why ... Part of it is simply that I wanted to try something else, and I felt like there were enough people testing the x86 side that it certainly didn't need me. Part of it is that I personally believe there are two main architectures out there: Power and x86-64 are what _I_ think are the two most relevant ones, and I decided that I had to at least check the other side of it out seriously if I really believed that," said | Dec 25 21:52 |
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| schestowitz | Torvalds." | Dec 25 21:52 |
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| trmanco | ahha | Dec 25 21:52 |
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| trmanco | utter crap | Dec 25 21:52 |
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| schestowitz | "However the kernel guru stopped any potential accusations of favouritism in their tracks, saying: "And don't read anything really deep into that - Linux supports 20+ architectures, and the fact that I personally think that two of them are more likely to be the most relevant really doesn't mean all that much. It's just a personal quirk of mine."" | Dec 25 21:52 |
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| MinceR | uh, isn't crApple x86? | Dec 25 21:52 |
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| trmanco | yes | Dec 25 21:52 |
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| trmanco | only | Dec 25 21:52 |
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| trmanco | I think | Dec 25 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | Oner pserson who defenced from OS X to Linux said the same. Mac's fs is terrible | Dec 25 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | Apple put some experimental ZFS in Leopard. | Dec 25 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | Just a CLI-level toy | Dec 25 21:53 |
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| trmanco | ZFS is high level | Dec 25 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: in 2005 these were probably rarer | Dec 25 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | When was the switchover? 2004? | Dec 25 21:53 |
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| trmanco | 16 EB of FS size | Dec 25 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/dec08/7106 "A quick start this year by one of these high-profile interconnection coordinators for priority energy projects suggests they might. In just six months, Mario Monti, best known for challenging Microsoft as Europe’s competition czar in the 1990s, negotiated a new transmission line between Spain and France that had been stalled for 15 years." | Dec 25 21:55 |
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| schestowitz | I need to pull those old links about Microsoft's connection to European communist activists sometimes. It shatters the whole "FOSS is communism" FUD | Dec 25 21:55 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft MVPs constantly flood the news with Microsoft boosting: http://www.dabcc.com/article... Why is this in Google News? It's like a Microsoft employee aggregating pro-Microsoft article. | Dec 25 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | Some Online Ads Thrive in a Miserable Economy < http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/24/o... >. Good for F/OSS/SaaS. OOo moves in this direction too | Dec 25 22:14 |
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| schestowitz | Second Zero Day Flaw Nails Microsoft In Two Weeks < http://www.informationweek.com/blog/m... >. And they allegedly knew about it _since April_. | Dec 25 22:16 |
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| schestowitz | Weisel Cuts Microsoft Q2 Numbers; Sees Slowing Server and Office Sales < http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdail... > | Dec 25 22:19 |
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| trmanco | Windows users get GEDIT -> http://blogs.gnome.org/pbor/2008/1... | Dec 25 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | People like Jose_X are against it, but it seems quite harmless. | Dec 25 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | That said, would would use it and why? Windows has other free text editors that re decent. Maybe it's better to spend the time improving Gedit for free platforms (that's how the argument goes anyway). | Dec 25 22:24 |
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| trmanco | yes | Dec 25 22:24 |
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| trmanco | windows has notepad++ | Dec 25 22:25 |
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| trmanco | great tool for windows | Dec 25 22:25 |
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| trmanco | ... or emacs | Dec 25 22:25 |
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| schestowitz | emacs.net? | Dec 25 22:28 |
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| trmanco | no | Dec 25 22:28 |
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| trmanco | I have a windows version of emacs at school | Dec 25 22:29 |
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| trmanco | but I can't remember how it is compiled | Dec 25 22:29 |
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| MinceR | the first emacs i've used was the windows one :> | Dec 25 22:29 |
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| schestowitz | I was sort of joking. http://blogs.zdnet.com/microso... | Dec 25 22:30 |
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| schestowitz | "Developers are puzzling over recent clues blogged by a few Microsoft employees regarding a new “Emacs.Net” tool the company is building." | Dec 25 22:30 |
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| trmanco | the windows version is slow due to the crappy windows memory management | Dec 25 22:30 |
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| schestowitz | "Microsoft builds..." like Microsoft spits in Stallman's face. | Dec 25 22:30 |
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| trmanco | the hard drive doesn't stop grinding on windows with emacs | Dec 25 22:30 |
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| schestowitz | Or as GNOME people would put it, "some more Windows toys" | Dec 25 22:30 |
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| trmanco | well better have emacs for windows to program then that crappy notepad sh*t | Dec 25 22:31 |
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| MinceR | the hard drive doesn't stop grinding on windows without emacs either :> | Dec 25 22:31 |
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| trmanco | LOL | Dec 25 22:32 |
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| MinceR | Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping | Dec 25 22:32 |
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| trmanco | well, yeah you are right | Dec 25 22:32 |
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| trmanco | that is an oldie | Dec 25 22:32 |
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| trmanco | back in time 8 megs of ram was almost a super computer | Dec 25 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | Scientist calls for robot ethics guidelines < http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,... > | Dec 25 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | I get a funny feeling when I read this. Like those people who speak to their dogs or something. | Dec 25 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | "The human touch [...] Rise of the machines" Ze Terminazor! | Dec 25 22:37 |
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| trmanco | I hate robot programming | Dec 25 22:38 |
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| trmanco | it is not my style | Dec 25 22:38 |
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| tessier | Robot programming? | Dec 25 22:42 |
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| tessier | emacs is lightweight compared to modern applications | Dec 25 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | Robots will hate human programming too. | Dec 25 22:42 |
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| tessier | A lot of the people who criticized emacs now use Eclipse. | Dec 25 22:42 |
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| trmanco | emacs on my machine fills up 18 megs of ram | Dec 25 22:43 |
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| trmanco | with 1 file being edited with about 300 lines of code | Dec 25 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | What happens if you test in on a 32MB of RAM machine? | Dec 25 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe it eats up what's available for speed and convenience. How does it scale? | Dec 25 22:45 |
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| tessier | trmanco: 18M vss or rss? | Dec 25 22:48 |
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| trmanco | tessier, what do you mean? | Dec 25 22:48 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, it will grab ram for its own speed I guess | Dec 25 22:49 |
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| tessier | How do you know it takes 18M of RAM? | Dec 25 22:49 |
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| tessier | There are several different ways of measuring how much RAM an app takes. | Dec 25 22:49 |
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| schestowitz | Here's a thing. | Dec 25 22:49 |
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| tessier | I have vim running right now and it is using 119M vss and 3M rss. | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| trmanco | tessier, htop, top and the gnome system panel | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| trmanco | oh wait | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| tessier | vss is virtual size. That includes all of the libraries and everything it has mapped in. | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| tessier | 3M is the resident size. I think that is how much RAM it is actually using. | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| trmanco | well, rss then | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| trmanco | yes that is it | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| trmanco | but I'll check | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | It has taken a while for OIN to return details to me. They offered an interview, I informed the editor and sent the questions that are reasonable. Now I'm under pressure from the editor to give what was promised. Now he sayd: "I just received word from my medium with Keith today that although the interview was promised, he has been unable to and will be unable to complete the questions. I wholeheartedly apologize for this inconven | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | ience and am extremely disappointed that this did not work out." | Dec 25 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | IOW, the questions were too good for him to address. | Dec 25 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | I raised the problems with OIN. | Dec 25 22:51 |
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| tessier | Too good? What sort of questions? | Dec 25 22:51 |
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| MinceR | lol eclipse | Dec 25 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | He could defend it, so we watch these cowards chicken out. | Dec 25 22:51 |
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| MinceR | Enterprise Trainwreck | Dec 25 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | OIN has made no friends with me then. | Dec 25 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: I'll probably do a post about it tomorrow. | Dec 25 22:52 |
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| schestowitz | Those IBM fronts are a waste of time. | Dec 25 22:52 |
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| schestowitz | A major Atlantic cod population heads for extinction < http://sciencenotes.wordpress.com/2008/11/27/a-m... > | Dec 25 22:53 |
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| trmanco | emacs: virt 33 MB RES 22 MB SHR 9 MB | Dec 25 22:57 |
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| tessier | Not bad for an editor with a whole programming language and development environment embedded into it. | Dec 25 22:59 |
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| trmanco | :-P | Dec 25 22:59 |
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| MinceR | well, emacs isn't a bad operating system, all it needs is a good editor | Dec 25 23:00 |
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| MinceR | and viper is close | Dec 25 23:00 |
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| tessier | I am still an emacs novice and barely know any emacs lisp but I really like the design | Dec 25 23:00 |
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| tessier | It isn't an operating system and emacs is a good editor. | Dec 25 23:01 |
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| tessier | Emacs has no hardware drivers in it | Dec 25 23:01 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Dec 25 23:01 |
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| schestowitz | Famous joke. | Dec 25 23:01 |
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| MinceR | then it isn't a good operating system after all :> | Dec 25 23:01 |
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| tessier | Tired joke. | Dec 25 23:01 |
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| schestowitz | GNU emacs never grew hurd legs | Dec 25 23:01 |
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| trmanco | well I like it | Dec 25 23:02 |
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| trmanco | it is advanced | Dec 25 23:02 |
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| schestowitz | I tried it only for a few days back in 2002 | Dec 25 23:03 |
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| schestowitz | In Enlightenment | Dec 25 23:03 |
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| MinceR | i prefer [g]vim | Dec 25 23:03 |
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| trmanco | fast but bloated with customization options | Dec 25 23:03 |
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| schestowitz | I preferred nedit at the time. (GTK/C programming) | Dec 25 23:03 |
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| trmanco | gvim is cool too | Dec 25 23:03 |
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| trmanco | never tried nedit | Dec 25 23:03 |
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| tessier | gvim has just as many options except they aren't exposed because the editor isn't implemented in a language which you have access to from the editor itself like emacs. | Dec 25 23:04 |
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| tessier | That is the biggest innovation of emacs. | Dec 25 23:04 |
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| MinceR | i didn't like the lack of font antialiasing in emacs; also the weak color theme support, lisp-centricism and slow syntax highlighting (it was rather prone to getting lagged) | Dec 25 23:04 |
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| MinceR | gvim has a scripting language | Dec 25 23:05 |
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| MinceR | and it's a lot more usable than lisp :> | Dec 25 23:05 |
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| tessier | Yes but gvim isn't implemented in that language. | Dec 25 23:05 |
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| MinceR | (it also has interfaces to various languages) | Dec 25 23:05 |
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| tessier | That only suggests you don't know lisp. | Dec 25 23:05 |
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| MinceR | lisp isn't human-readable | Dec 25 23:05 |
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| trmanco | ()(()))() | Dec 25 23:05 |
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| tessier | You imply that I'm not human. | Dec 25 23:05 |
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| MinceR | they came close, but stopped developing the language before inventing a syntax for it :> | Dec 25 23:06 |
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| trmanco | I don't know lisp yet | Dec 25 23:06 |
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| trmanco | can't say nothing about it | Dec 25 23:06 |
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| trmanco | how different is lisp from elisp? | Dec 25 23:10 |
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| tessier | trmanco: Not very | Dec 25 23:10 |
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| tessier | Not at all, depending on the implementation | Dec 25 23:10 |
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| tessier | The concepts and syntax are the same. | Dec 25 23:10 |
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| tessier | Lisp does have a syntax. The best syntax IMO. The only syntax which is parseable by itself. No other language can do that. | Dec 25 23:11 |
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| trmanco | cool | Dec 25 23:11 |
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| tessier | A lisp program is itself an abstract syntax tree. | Dec 25 23:11 |
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| MinceR | too bad i'm not lisp | Dec 25 23:11 |
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| MinceR | therefore parsing it is pain to me | Dec 25 23:11 |
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| trmanco | I'll try lisp or elisp one day | Dec 25 23:12 |
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| MinceR | especially with the default coding style, which recommends piling up the closing parens at the end of a line in a big bunch | Dec 25 23:12 |
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| tessier | This is what makes Lisp so different. No other language can do macros like lisp can. They all have to run through a layer of indirection to parse and ultimately generate the abstract syntax tree. | Dec 25 23:12 |
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| tessier | MinceR: You don't really need them anyway. Especially if it is indented correctly. The beginning parens are much more important. | Dec 25 23:13 |
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| MinceR | except if i add one too many or too few parens | Dec 25 23:13 |
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| tessier | You won't. | Dec 25 23:13 |
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| MinceR | then everything blows up and i need a utility to help me find where it's wrong | Dec 25 23:13 |
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| MinceR | i've already done so, while hacking a theme for Sawfish. | Dec 25 23:13 |
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| MinceR | (the wm that runs lisp-based themes -- it's incredibly slow) | Dec 25 23:13 |
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| tessier | You need a utility to program anyway. You were just commenting on how you don't like the emacs highlighting and various other things. If you didn't need them it wouldn't matte.r | Dec 25 23:14 |
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| MinceR | i'd like syntax highlighting to be a handy tool i can do without, not an absolute necessity without which code is unreadable and unmanageable | Dec 25 23:14 |
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| MinceR | i've actually thought of learning mlisp but the damn thing isn't documented anywhere | Dec 25 23:15 |
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| tessier | I also like that lisp is the second oldest programming language still in use today (second only to FORTRAN) and that it had, decades ago, all of the stuff that new languages are raving about having. | Dec 25 23:15 |
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| tessier | It shows how little we have really learned about software after the 1960's. | Dec 25 23:16 |
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| MinceR | that's nice | Dec 25 23:16 |
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| tessier | Although hardware has advanced a lot which has allowed us to use things which were discovered although not implemented back then. | Dec 25 23:16 |
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| tessier | trmanco: I would suggest picking up The Little Schemer. | Dec 25 23:16 |
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| tessier | trmanco: It was very interesting. Quite theoretical though. PLT-Scheme and How To Design Programs is supposed to be very good also and might suite you better if The Little Schemer isn't your style. | Dec 25 23:17 |
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| MinceR | but there's a reason why all the other languages aren't written in the form of an abstract syntax tree :> | Dec 25 23:17 |
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| tessier | Although I haven't worked through it. | Dec 25 23:17 |
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| trmanco | tessier, what is that? a book? | Dec 25 23:17 |
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| tessier | trmanco: yes | Dec 25 23:17 |
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| trmanco | thanks | Dec 25 23:17 |
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| trmanco | I'll right that down somewhere for future reference | Dec 25 23:18 |
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| trmanco | anyway look what I've found "Ulp! Vista fatal crash please help." | Dec 25 23:18 |
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| trmanco | "First I bought a Vista Home Premium computer. | Dec 25 23:18 |
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| trmanco | After 18 months or so it crashes on a regular basis | Dec 25 23:18 |
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| trmanco | with fairly similar results." | Dec 25 23:18 |
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| schestowitz | Is that from a URL? | Dec 25 23:20 |
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| trmanco | a newsgroup | Dec 25 23:21 |
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| trmanco | I subscribed today on 2 windows genereal newsgroups just for fun | Dec 25 23:21 |
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| trmanco | general* | Dec 25 23:21 |
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| trmanco | here -> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public... | Dec 25 23:22 |
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| *kapipi_ (n=tor@0x3e42d97a.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #boycottnovell | Dec 25 23:36 |
| schestowitz | If only I could figure out how to put a spellchecker in Kate/Kedit... | Dec 25 23:37 |
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| trmanco | I know in gedit | Dec 25 23:38 |
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| trmanco | it probably is similar | Dec 25 23:38 |
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| schestowitz | It's s programing editor. | Dec 25 23:38 |
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| schestowitz | So I have autoc-omplete for work/variables. | Dec 25 23:38 |
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| trmanco | oops, my bad | Dec 25 23:39 |
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| schestowitz | Hm..... http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page... | Dec 25 23:39 |
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| trmanco | I thought gedit as in gnome edit was similar to kedit as in kde edit | Dec 25 23:40 |
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| schestowitz | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/k... | Dec 25 23:40 |
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| schestowitz | Well, the function is similar | Dec 25 23:41 |
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| trmanco | ispell | Dec 25 23:41 |
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| trmanco | I use that in emacs :-P | Dec 25 23:41 |
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| trmanco | and gedit | Dec 25 23:41 |
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| trmanco | well, everywhere it is a shared library | Dec 25 23:42 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, but I have no plugin to link them | Dec 25 23:43 |
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| schestowitz | Even Firefox uses ispell | Dec 25 23:43 |
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| schestowitz | Kate wasn't created to be a text editor, but I do HTML in it | Dec 25 23:43 |
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| schestowitz | well, I should say "words editor", as opposed to tokens | Dec 25 23:44 |
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| trmanco | :-p | Dec 25 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | Oh damn | Dec 25 23:50 |
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| schestowitz | I already have that, but it's the wrong thing,. | Dec 25 23:50 |
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| schestowitz | I wanted "as you type" spellchecker like in KNode | Dec 25 23:50 |
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| trmanco | the ispell thingy ? | Dec 25 23:50 |
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| trmanco | does that have some checkboxes for configuration? | Dec 25 23:51 |
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| schestowitz | Not that I could ever find any. I tried last year | Dec 25 23:51 |
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| schestowitz | No happiness. | Dec 25 23:51 |
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| trmanco | or maybe some variable isn't set correctly | Dec 25 23:51 |
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| trmanco | spell-on-the-fly 1 | Dec 25 23:52 |
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| trmanco | :-P | Dec 25 23:52 |
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| schestowitz | I find some useful stuff along the way though, like "capitalise" | Dec 25 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | The existing toys still don't offer inline spellchecker | Dec 25 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | No answer (Oct. 2008): http://forum.kde.org/enable-inline-spe... | Dec 25 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | So I'm not alone and no such thing exists yet on the face of it. http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclie... http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozcli... | Dec 25 23:55 |
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| trmanco | it will be implemented some day :-P | Dec 25 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | I just paste it in Firefox anyway, so it was never a big deal. | Dec 25 23:58 |
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