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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 31st, 2008

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schestowitzWhich picture?Dec 31 00:00
neighborleebreastsDec 31 00:00
neighborlee3d virtual stuff..oh lovely ;(Dec 31 00:00
schestowitzIt won't kill you.Dec 31 00:00
neighborleeLOLDec 31 00:00
schestowitz3-d virtual breasts?Dec 31 00:00
neighborleeI mean I dont see any links TO themDec 31 00:00
neighborleeLOLDec 31 00:00
neighborleeno ;)Dec 31 00:00
neighborleelanguage can be a  silly barrier sometimes ;)Dec 31 00:00
schestowitzOh :-(Dec 31 00:00
neighborleelolDec 31 00:00
schestowitzWhat was that funny thing..Dec 31 00:00
schestowitzWait..Dec 31 00:00
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schestowitzWhen you said yum at the wrong time..Dec 31 00:01
neighborleecute ;)Dec 31 00:01
schestowitzI can't recall how it went or what was said.Dec 31 00:01
neighborleealthough, ive been subjected to alot of breast feeding as of late ;)Dec 31 00:02
neighborleemy good friend's baby has done alot of it last several months ;)(Dec 31 00:02
neighborleeshe's very good about taking cover when im there of course..kinda funny/cute though ;)Dec 31 00:02
neighborleeLOL her child was crawling all around up inside her upper torso area one day..as he would if he was climbing or something, it was very funnny!!Dec 31 00:03
neighborleewould have made a perfect , most funnny videos I can say without hesitation ;)Dec 31 00:03
neighborleeas well the laughter jack makes just before she starts breast feeding him..its just hillarius ;)Dec 31 00:03
neighborleeriousDec 31 00:03
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schestowitzgnDec 31 00:16
neighborleegn ;)Dec 31 00:17
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MinceRgnDec 31 03:23
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twitterHigh all.  I'm back.Dec 31 04:13
twitterI expect most of you are sleeping, so I will too.  I'll see you in the morning.Dec 31 04:14
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schestowitzwbDec 31 07:25
schestowitz"Jobs' Health Rapidly Declining, Inevitable News Spring 2009" < http://www.osnews.com/story/20709/Jobs_H... >Dec 31 07:52
schestowitz'According to the anonymous source, Steve Jobs' health situation may be far worse than we imagined. "Steves health is rapidly declining," the source claims, "Apple is choosing to remove the hype factor strategically vs. letting the hype destroy Apple when the inevitable news comes later this spring." 'Dec 31 07:53
schestowitzCBS newsman's $70m lawsuit likely to deal Bush legacy a new blow http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/200...Dec 31 07:56
schestowitz"As George W Bush prepares to leave the White House, at least one unpleasant episode from his unpopular presidency is threatening to follow him into retirement."Dec 31 07:56
schestowitzJust like Microsoft... they try to pressure people out of their job if they don't obey the nastiness. Peter Quinn comes to mind.Dec 31 07:57
schestowitzhttp://www.prwatch.org/node/8100 "President-elect Barack Obama's close advisers "tend to shudder at any parallels to George W. Bush," writes Mark Leibovich, "but many reporters and rivals have noted the 'Bush-like' tendencies the Obama campaign demonstrated in its ability to control information"Dec 31 07:59
schestowitz"Alan Rusbridger, who edits the British Guardian, thinks fear of libel lawsuits from big corporations may have contributed to journalists' failure to adequately report on the dangerous economic decisions that led to the recent implosion of the global financial system." < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8102 >Dec 31 08:01
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iklehiDec 31 08:02
schestowitzHey there.Dec 31 08:02
ikleguys i came across your channel on googleDec 31 08:02
ikleanyone does jailbreak here for iphones?Dec 31 08:02
ikle:PDec 31 08:02
iklehi schestowitzDec 31 08:02
schestowitzI think G3 was cracked tooDec 31 08:02
schestowitzThey keep trying to C&D those guys, IIRCDec 31 08:03
iklehow do you jailbreak g3Dec 31 08:03
iklei got the g3Dec 31 08:03
schestowitzhttp://www.iphonehacks.com/jailbre...Dec 31 08:04
schestowitzhttp://www.iphonehacks.com/2008/07/j...Dec 31 08:04
iklei think thats where i wasDec 31 08:05
schestowitzThere are more resource, but it's a moving targetDec 31 08:05
schestowitzApple hates freedomDec 31 08:05
schestowitz"Jobs' Health Rapidly Declining, Inevitable News Spring 2009" < http://www.osnews.com/story/20709/Jobs_Heal... >Dec 31 08:06
schestowitz[just in]Dec 31 08:06
ikleoh okDec 31 08:07
schestowitzHere's the thingDec 31 08:08
schestowitzApple is getting popular in the US, but Linux is a lot bigger outside the USDec 31 08:08
schestowitzEnglish-speaking sites don't draw the correct picture.Dec 31 08:08
schestowitzAnd it's the same with iPhone. In few countries the iPhone is popular, but those are the places our media coversDec 31 08:09
schestowitzIt's ideal if closed phones are avoided altogether and discouraged through one's wallet.Dec 31 08:09
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macabeHiDec 31 08:16
schestowitzHey there.Dec 31 08:18
macabeI have this terminal on continuously and logged to IRC all the time-for the rest of our support staff to see and learn.Dec 31 08:18
macabeIs it causing any conflicts for you?Dec 31 08:18
schestowitzNo, no conflictsDec 31 08:20
macabeCool, I appreciate it. We've bought our fearless leader a membership to Free Software Foundation for XMAS.Dec 31 08:21
macabeHe'll like the GNU membership card when he gets it.Dec 31 08:22
schestowitzVery coolDec 31 08:26
schestowitzI know others who did tooDec 31 08:26
*schestowitz catches up with an attack at http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/28295/Dec 31 08:27
schestowitzThere is so much BS there that I don't know where to start.Dec 31 08:27
macabeThe "SLOG".Dec 31 08:27
schestowitzThe usual people defend me.Dec 31 08:28
schestowitzI've just caught up with this thread. I'm always sad to see lies about me posted without challenge, but I suppose I should expect them because some people who are affiliated with things I write about are not so happy, so they shoot my character, sometimes with libel they pick up somewhere and reuse.Dec 31 08:28
schestowitzLike many people, I sometimes err and I have many hostile readers who nitpick my writings to find some word they don't like. Others try to associate me with some people who read the site and use these other people('s character) to discredit me. That's not fair.Dec 31 08:28
schestowitzI'll do a quick comment there actually.Dec 31 08:29
macabeNever is when you put a mirror to someone's face and show them what they really are.Dec 31 08:29
schestowitzOK, posted. "If you find factual mistake, please correct them. Don't scrape some false insults from somewhere and then glue elsewhere them to just spread them. BTW, people failed to detect some sarcasm from Shane Coyle. He later clarified. As for me, I haven't lived in my parents' house since I was 18, so enough with the BS, please. Happy new year, Roy"Dec 31 08:30
schestowitzI needed to just say *something*Dec 31 08:31
schestowitzI guess the bigger the sites grows (we had about 250,000 hits yesterday), the more subjected to scrutiny we'll becomeDec 31 08:31
tessierhttp://minimsft.blogspot.com/2008/12/no-...Dec 31 08:38
tessierNo layoffs afterall? Everyone seemed so sure there would be...Dec 31 08:38
schestowitztessier: an analyst advised this tooDec 31 08:38
schestowitztessier: I saw this yesterday. It might not mean much.Dec 31 08:38
tessierIt sure seemed to mean a lot when we were expecting layoffsDec 31 08:39
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/28/o...Dec 31 08:39
schestowitzThat's nothing to do with 'mini'Dec 31 08:39
macabeIs the anyway to get an .ogg(v) of Revolution O/S? We have a class on intro to computers at the community center and would like to show it.Dec 31 08:49
schestowitzIt's too large for me to put on the server.Dec 31 08:50
schestowitzIt's also a copyrights issue.Dec 31 08:50
macabeOK. Can we point to the post and overhead it?Dec 31 08:51
schestowitzYou can do it full screen.Dec 31 08:52
schestowitzhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=77...Dec 31 08:52
macabeThanks. That will work also.Dec 31 08:53
schestowitzOh, it's snowing!Dec 31 08:53
macabeAlso here in Rochester.Dec 31 08:54
schestowitz17 Telecommuting Pet Peeves < http://www.cio.com/article/473164/_... > "Telecommuting is great. I've been doing it full time for most of 20 years. But it isn't perfect. Working at home has its own set of irritations, some of which aren't well understood—particularly by those who don't telecommute."Dec 31 09:00
tessierNo snow here in San DiegoDec 31 09:56
schestowitz:-)Dec 31 09:58
schestowitzOn the Charity Killer (Intel) and Linux: Dec 31 09:59
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1...Dec 31 09:59
schestowitzAnd another one bites the dust: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/188/...Dec 31 09:59
schestowitzMaybe a non-MS-funded fork of go-oo? (I have yet to use it, but will try it now on your recommendation.) < http://ostatic.com/blog/a-diatribe-ag... >Dec 31 10:08
-christel-[Global Notice] As Chatham Island, NZ enters 2009 I'd like to wish each and every one of our users a very happy New Year! As normal #freenode-newyears is open and you're welcome to join us there! We may send the occasional wallop over the next day, however, this will be the only global notice. If you wish to see further messages from staff please set yourself +w.Dec 31 10:14
schestowitzhttp://www.stormyscorner.com/2008/12/is-ope... She says "intellectual property"... yes... director or whatever of GNOME.Dec 31 10:15
schestowitzWhat is this nonsense about 'right' to 'own' knowledge? It's time for IBM to call it a day with its 'IP' bubble (like the economic crisis which was triggered by imaginary property) and 'pull a Bilski' on software patents.Dec 31 10:15
schestowitzCopyrights are hardly an issue in this case, but this has always been an /excuse/ for GPU makers (oh! Our precious IP!!), which they _later REFUTED_ by going open source.Dec 31 10:15
schestowitzJust told someone about Enderle "Be aware that you feed a friend of Ballmer whose opinions are up for sale." http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/23/ro... http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/11/rob...Dec 31 10:20
schestowitzRob Enderle: Putting the ‘Anal’ in ‘Analyst’ < http://daringfireball.net/2003/12/enderle >Dec 31 10:21
schestowitz"Enderle for years has been banging the drum that Apple is doomed unless it switches gears and starts making Wintel-compatible PCs and competing with Dell on “style”."Dec 31 10:22
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/2008123... "A joint packaging effort between the two distros was also recently announced for the transition to Mono 2.0."Dec 31 10:24
schestowitzLink there to Jo Shiels pushing the dotnets [sic] into the distrosDec 31 10:25
trmancohttp://gizmodo.com/5121311/reports-30gb-...Dec 31 12:15
trmancoscheduled DRM shutdownDec 31 12:15
schestowitz*LOL*Dec 31 12:24
schestowitzHappy Zew YearDec 31 12:24
trmancoLOLDec 31 12:30
MinceRj0Dec 31 13:23
schestowitzI probably have some typos here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/31/i...Dec 31 13:37
trmancoschestowitz, nop, no typosDec 31 15:38
schestowitzThanks. I have a good one coming upDec 31 15:41
schestowitzAntitrustDec 31 15:41
trmancookDec 31 15:44
trmancopeople are trying to push go.oo to ubuntuDec 31 15:44
trmancohttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubunt...Dec 31 15:45
trmancowell, it already is in UbuntuDec 31 15:46
trmancosort ofDec 31 15:46
schestowitzSort of?Dec 31 16:00
trmancoyesDec 31 16:06
trmancoit disguised in Ubuntu with Sun branding I thinkDec 31 16:06
trmancoit'sDec 31 16:06
schestowitzWho is John Moser?Dec 31 16:08
schestowitzI'm writing about this now.Dec 31 16:09
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclie...Dec 31 16:09
trmancoit might just be some userDec 31 16:12
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trmanco14 million euros for microsoft just in portugal: http://blog.softwarelivre.sapo.pt/2008/12/...Dec 31 16:29
schestowitzWhat is the gist?Dec 31 16:29
trmancogist?Dec 31 16:29
schestowitzShort story?Dec 31 16:30
schestowitzSome other uni sold out?Dec 31 16:30
schestowitzI haven't used Google Translate yet.Dec 31 16:30
trmancono0Dec 31 16:31
trmancono uniDec 31 16:31
trmancothat was a couple of months agoDec 31 16:31
trmancothe AMA was/is sold outDec 31 16:31
trmancoModern Administration agency translated I thinkDec 31 16:33
trmancoit has a limit for these kind of thing of 75 000 € but the "wasted" 14 million just in Microfoot licensingDec 31 16:33
trmancothings*Dec 31 16:33
trmancothey*Dec 31 16:33
schestowitzWhat to do about it..?Dec 31 16:34
schestowitzIs there evidence of misconduct like kackbacks?Dec 31 16:34
schestowitzor BillG 'visiting' Portugal for some *ahem* handshakes?Dec 31 16:34
trmancoyes billy boy came here some time agoDec 31 16:35
trmancoand ballmer too IIRCDec 31 16:35
trmanconothing better than to email Mr.Rui for more info on this, he knows better about this stuff than I doDec 31 16:35
trmancohere is the official thingy -> http://www.base.gov.pt/_layouts/ccp/Aju...Dec 31 16:38
schestowitzIf there's no dirt, then all we can do is say: "this is tah sucks, waste of money..."Dec 31 16:39
schestowitzBut politicians are not good at covering digital tracksDec 31 16:40
schestowitzGet the names of those involved in both side and do some googling for intersections between them.Dec 31 16:40
schestowitzThis give circumstantial evidence.Dec 31 16:40
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schestowitz Private firm 'may run' phone log < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7805610.stm >Dec 31 17:07
schestowitz"A private company could be asked to run a huge database containing details of all telephone calls, emails and internet use, it has been reported." Yay! Surveillance!!Dec 31 17:08
twitterAh, good morning.  When you said "Jobs health" I thought of the continuing economic collapse http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2060...Dec 31 17:13
twitter-“The underlying picture is terrible for the labor market,” said Joshua Shapiro, chief U.S. economist at Maria Fiorini Ramirez Inc. in New York. The initial claims figures were “distorted by some sort of breakdown in the seasonal adjustment process, with the holidays.”Dec 31 17:13
twitterIn other words, it's worse than they are telling you, again.Dec 31 17:13
schestowitzDuhDec 31 17:29
schestowitzNo, they try to scare you. :-)Dec 31 17:30
twitterNot having had a real job in more than a year, I'm reasonably scared.Dec 31 17:31
twitterMy classmates got jobs, and some of the next class.  I'm afraid I'm blacklisted and smeared.Dec 31 17:32
twitterThe economic meltdown only makes things more difficult.Dec 31 17:32
twittereasier for them, difficult for me.Dec 31 17:32
neighborleetwitter, blacklisted ?Dec 31 17:34
neighborleemaybe its all gods way of telling us to stop dividing ourselves by income, and start acting like real human beings and help each other ;)Dec 31 17:35
neighborleeya just never know ;)Dec 31 17:35
twitterI know there's a utility blacklist, which kept me from getting a job back in 2002 when I was canned last.  It is difficult for me to explain my not getting a job in the last year after graduating from a program where no one in the last 18 years has gone jobless.Dec 31 17:36
schestowitzSocialism? :-)Dec 31 17:36
neighborleeshhoooo not to loud you make wake them ;)Dec 31 17:36
schestowitzHehe.Dec 31 17:36
schestowitzNo, not quiteDec 31 17:36
schestowitzThe theory a wise friend explains is to do with regulationDec 31 17:36
twitterThere's little and nothing I can do for others while I can't feed myself.Dec 31 17:36
schestowitzThat also relates to that Nader video I showed you the other dayDec 31 17:37
twitterAlexH is an insulting ass, isn't he?  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/29/sun-resp...Dec 31 17:37
schestowitzThey loot and spoil the system (assuming infinite abundance) and then leave the 'little people' to pick up the bill and clean up the mess.Dec 31 17:37
twitterIt is hard for me to imagine a job so shitty that people can pull together 4 vacation days to link Christmas and New Years this year.Dec 31 17:38
schestowitzPeople compromise obsDec 31 17:38
twitterAlexH shows us that PR is one of those shitty jobs.Dec 31 17:38
schestowitzI know people who worked in computers and finance and now guard schools.Dec 31 17:39
schestowitz[Sheesh. Shane might be an example]Dec 31 17:39
schestowitzBut there are more, they just typically keep quiet about it because they are shyDec 31 17:39
twitterBlacklisted?Dec 31 17:39
schestowitzNoDec 31 17:39
schestowitzWho is/was?Dec 31 17:39
twitterShane?Dec 31 17:40
schestowitzNo.Dec 31 17:40
schestowitzNot as far as I knowDec 31 17:40
schestowitzYou can ask him. He wrote about it in October, IIRCDec 31 17:40
twitterThat's the thing about blacklists and smears, you can't tell unless someone blows the whistleDec 31 17:40
twitterThe kind of people who won't hire you, won't tell either.Dec 31 17:41
schestowitzI don't know..Dec 31 17:41
schestowitzBut I think we're talking about crisis time for the ecnomy in generalDec 31 17:41
schestowitzEither way, the number of people lining up for jobs is vastDec 31 17:42
schestowitzWhereas almost no companies have openings.Dec 31 17:42
twitterLike I said, crisis time makes things easier for powerful people.Dec 31 17:42
schestowitzSo likelihoods are always bad.Dec 31 17:42
schestowitzIn situations like this, judging by history, radical measures are takenDec 31 17:42
schestowitzProtetsts/police states/overthrowing of governments/etcDec 31 17:43
schestowitzThe US is a "Failed State", accoding to somerDec 31 17:43
schestowitz*someDec 31 17:43
schestowitzBut it takes other dependent countries down /with/ itDec 31 17:43
schestowitzFair enough, I guess.Dec 31 17:43
schestowitzAmerica lives on steroids (energy it did not really have)Dec 31 17:43
twitterI want justice, not riots.Dec 31 17:43
schestowitzSo -- being totoalyl frank about it -- it's morbidly ill now.Dec 31 17:44
schestowitzJustice without riots?Dec 31 17:44
twitterYes.Dec 31 17:44
schestowitzAll change has ALWAYS come from the bottomDec 31 17:44
schestowitzPeople who know history will tell youDec 31 17:44
schestowitzChange never comes from above (comfort) but from those demanding itDec 31 17:44
schestowitzThe secret is in controlling people's mind.Dec 31 17:44
schestowitz*mindsDec 31 17:45
twitterThe US already has the laws required, they simply need to be enforced.  There's no need to trash everything.Dec 31 17:45
schestowitzIt's a challenge to both sides.Dec 31 17:45
schestowitztwitter: Dec 31 17:45
schestowitzNo so simpleDec 31 17:45
schestowitzWatch the second and third videos I just postedDec 31 17:45
schestowitzit's at the top of page 1Dec 31 17:45
schestowitzThe Republicans, as a matter of pracitce, enforce no regulatory rules.Dec 31 17:45
schestowitzThat's 'their thing'Dec 31 17:45
schestowitzThat assume "Free market" (free to defraud, etc.) is acceptable conductDec 31 17:46
schestowitzBut now the price is paidDec 31 17:46
schestowitzFor a stupid admin. that sent troops to invade Iraq and spend more than the sum of the bailout..Dec 31 17:46
schestowitz"...if this is anything like the bug that caused Windows 98 to crash after 49 days when the tick-count exceeded 32-bits :P]" http://www.osnews.com/story/20714/...Dec 31 18:03
schestowitzSex Offenders In Georgia Required To Hand Over Passwords... To Protect The Children http://techdirt.com/articles/2008123...Dec 31 18:04
schestowitz"It's really amazing what sort of laws are being passed in the name of "protecting the children." The latest is a law in Georgia that requires all sex offenders not only to hand over all of their online usernames and email addresses (which some other states require), but also the passwords to all of their accounts."Dec 31 18:05
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/200812... "Over the past few years, as the newspaper business got in deeper and deeper trouble, we seemed to increasingly hear some particularly clueless suggestions on how newspapers should save themselves -- almost always revolving around some sort of backwards effort to put the genie back in the bottle, such as by all banding together, violating all sorts of anti-trust rules and colluDec 31 18:07
schestowitzding to charge for content. "Dec 31 18:07
neighborleewell its a double edge sword I think..parents can help by educating kids, but that doesn't always work ;)Dec 31 18:13
neighborleekids are smart these days,,they find ways.Dec 31 18:13
neighborleeso other means are, sadly necessary.Dec 31 18:13
schestowitzKids are brainwashed the most at schoolsDec 31 18:13
neighborleeits that , or help offenders kill innocent children , imo anyway.Dec 31 18:13
schestowitzThe plot is smarterDec 31 18:13
schestowitzKeep the parents busy at workDec 31 18:13
neighborleeyes,there are many issues at play here sadlyDec 31 18:14
schestowitzWhen they get back exhausted they just sleep, maybe run on some treadmill and get zombified by some telly, which is part of the culture.Dec 31 18:14
schestowitzSo the kids are told what the teacher is forced to teachDec 31 18:14
neighborleeof course yupDec 31 18:14
neighborleewe had our mom at home for a longtimeDec 31 18:14
schestowitzThe teachers in the US (I found out yesterday) are sometimes not allowed to say how old the Grand Conyon is.Dec 31 18:14
neighborleedad had great job as enginner..no brainerDec 31 18:14
schestowitzThis is INSANEDec 31 18:14
schestowitzThey raise kids to not think for themselves or be told truths.Dec 31 18:15
neighborleeok,that is JUST weirdDec 31 18:15
schestowitzAs for the child offence thing, I missed your reference.Dec 31 18:15
schestowitzIt's an appalling thing, but they use it as back door to laws.Dec 31 18:15
schestowitzYou can't oppose terrorists or pedophile because then they label you oneDec 31 18:15
neighborleewell its a ugly situation I agreeDec 31 18:16
schestowitzOr call you terrorist sympathiser or whateverDec 31 18:16
neighborleepeople have rights  to be rehabiliatedDec 31 18:16
schestowitzThe people in MOST need of surveillance are CEOs.Dec 31 18:16
neighborleebut children have rights to be protected from them, until they are ;)(Dec 31 18:16
schestowitzThe BIG crimes are White-collar crimesDec 31 18:16
schestowitzThey cause the most damage and can result in suicides,drug addiction, countries going to war, etcDec 31 18:16
schestowitzneighborlee: yes, but surveillance is no protectionDec 31 18:17
schestowitzTo put it differently, as Schneir puts it, having utilities for spying does not always improve securityDec 31 18:17
neighborleeeducation is of course very important..but often its not enoughDec 31 18:17
schestowitzPeople can communicate by voice too and given spying, they probably willDec 31 18:17
neighborleeso until we as a society figure out something else,,I dont know what else can be doneDec 31 18:18
schestowitzEducation is a biased thing.Dec 31 18:18
neighborleebut necessary :)Dec 31 18:18
neighborleeits like medical science is only as good as those implemnting it ;)Dec 31 18:18
schestowitzDogs have more instincts than us homo sapient.Dec 31 18:18
neighborleeand only as good as our research teams ;)Dec 31 18:18
schestowitzThe human mind is more complex, so you can raise people to be civil.. or animals.Dec 31 18:18
neighborleequiteDec 31 18:19
schestowitzYou can't make a dig religious... or a shrewd terroristDec 31 18:19
schestowitzBut you can make a dig more (or less) violentDec 31 18:19
schestowitz*dogDec 31 18:19
neighborleehehDec 31 18:19
schestowitzDouble typoDec 31 18:19
neighborlee:)Dec 31 18:19
neighborleeI knew what you meant ;)Dec 31 18:19
neighborleedogs are already religious ;)Dec 31 18:19
schestowitzSo education matters a lotDec 31 18:20
neighborleethey are our best friends ;)Dec 31 18:20
schestowitzLook at how kids in different cultures behave differently.Dec 31 18:20
schestowitzLike.. compare kids in China to ones who are , dunno...Dec 31 18:20
neighborleethe dont judge love us unconditionally..how many humans can do that ;)Dec 31 18:20
neighborleethe/theyDec 31 18:20
schestowitzAnything I say here might seem racist ...Dec 31 18:20
neighborleena its ok..we get itDec 31 18:21
schestowitzNo.. well...Dec 31 18:21
schestowitzWith dogs, there's no such issue.Dec 31 18:21
neighborleethere are major differences in cultureDec 31 18:21
schestowitzI don't need to go into this argumentDec 31 18:21
schestowitzBut peoeple are raised to assume there is supervision from above... but no monster under the bed.Dec 31 18:21
schestowitzWhy assume the existence without proof rather than assume the inextestyence until proof is provided?Dec 31 18:22
neighborleedepends what religion, and what parents we had :))Dec 31 18:22
schestowitz:-)Dec 31 18:22
neighborleethankfully mine raised me with some senseDec 31 18:22
schestowitzMost kids everywhere are taught religion  whilst youngDec 31 18:22
neighborleeI was given the choice to do as I willed,,though it harmed none. ;)Dec 31 18:22
schestowitzI can't think of even /ONE/ culture that has no icons.Dec 31 18:22
neighborleeand with the knowledge god loves me..that was about it.Dec 31 18:22
schestowitzEither human or imaginaryDec 31 18:22
schestowitzOr 'spiritual'Dec 31 18:23
neighborleeyupDec 31 18:23
schestowitzWhich is OK, but.Dec 31 18:23
schestowitzThe religious entity, because there is no access to it, can be used for propgandaDec 31 18:23
schestowitzLike "going to Iraq to defend Christian values" or blowing yourself up for AllahDec 31 18:23
schestowitzNot that religious is an issueDec 31 18:24
neighborleeah yes you mean the extremeists ;)Dec 31 18:24
schestowitzThe biggest atrocities have nothing to do with religion.Dec 31 18:24
neighborleeyeah god loves em too, even if they are slightly on the fringes of humanity ; )Dec 31 18:24
schestowitzIn fact, religion sometimes prevents crimeDec 31 18:24
neighborleewell we hope so ;)(Dec 31 18:24
schestowitz"Do this and God will punush you or you'll  go to Hell"Dec 31 18:24
neighborleeyes extremists are busy  aren't they ;)Dec 31 18:25
schestowitzBut the supposititoon that world astrocities would end had it not been for religion is false.Dec 31 18:25
schestowitzCongo has a huge genocide going on (maybe the term is not correct), but there is an issue there of wealth and resourcesDec 31 18:25
schestowitzLack of water and territory can stir things upDec 31 18:25
neighborleepeople do stupid things,,not cause they are evil..they learn bad habits..and the plot continues adnoseiumDec 31 18:26
schestowitzExtremism is not related to religionDec 31 18:26
schestowitzIt's a justficationDec 31 18:26
schestowitzIt's means to an end.Dec 31 18:26
neighborleeextremeism is a neutral entity,,it has no group collective thought or religion..it is of its own makingDec 31 18:26
neighborleesadlyDec 31 18:26
schestowitzA person could commit suicide because of anger, but instead pressure self into thinking that it was done _for someone_Dec 31 18:26
schestowitzExtremism is nothing to do with religionDec 31 18:27
schestowitzOr... it would have existed without it anywayDec 31 18:27
neighborleeyup thats what I just said ;)Dec 31 18:27
neighborleesorry if I didn't convey it wellDec 31 18:27
schestowitzThe religious argument is a recruitment tool.Dec 31 18:27
schestowitzLike... "join our church"Dec 31 18:27
schestowitzOr... join  the Klub (KKK)Dec 31 18:27
schestowitzFactionism.Dec 31 18:27
neighborleethankfully not all religious groups are created equal ;)Dec 31 18:28
schestowitzHow so?Dec 31 18:28
schestowitzWell, it's an identity thingDec 31 18:28
neighborleefred phelps and his       crowed really need to get a life for example.Dec 31 18:28
schestowitzLike an umbrella that unites subgroupsDec 31 18:28
schestowitzFred?Dec 31 18:28
neighborleeyesDec 31 18:28
schestowitzWhat's he doing?Dec 31 18:28
neighborleethe homophobe ;)Dec 31 18:28
schestowitzThere are some craziesDec 31 18:28
neighborleehate mongerer,,yadda ;)Dec 31 18:28
schestowitzLike a group that said "thank God for 9/11"Dec 31 18:28
neighborleesimilar yesDec 31 18:29
schestowitzIt's like 100 people, 7 of which from the same familyuDec 31 18:29
schestowitzMaybe you know their names.Dec 31 18:29
schestowitz*7>70Dec 31 18:29
neighborleethe pretend to be 'of god', yet they speak only of hate and discontent for their fellow man,,,Dec 31 18:29
neighborleetheyDec 31 18:29
schestowitzAttention seeking maybe.Dec 31 18:29
neighborleeof courseDec 31 18:29
schestowitzCounter productiveDec 31 18:29
schestowitz.And unethicalDec 31 18:30
neighborleenatural result of the hate ;)Dec 31 18:30
neighborleealwaysDec 31 18:30
schestowitz.Unless ethics are deathDec 31 18:30
schestowitzSome think are 'aximally' goodDec 31 18:30
schestowitzLike the most basic things: food, sleep, lifeDec 31 18:30
schestowitzYou can build up logic from there.Dec 31 18:30
schestowitzSo human rights are an extension of thisDec 31 18:31
schestowitzFreedom like speech, software, act, etc. are other extensionsDec 31 18:31
neighborleethey all flow from the same source ;)Dec 31 18:31
schestowitzBecause, without them, people a re repressed and denies access to things like rights (a level below) or food, shelter, life.Dec 31 18:31
neighborleeor they are suppose to anyway ;)Dec 31 18:31
schestowitzThen comes the issue of wealth and powerDec 31 18:32
schestowitzThat has too little to do with simply requirementDec 31 18:32
schestowitz*simpleDec 31 18:32
schestowitzMonkeys have no currencyDec 31 18:32
neighborleeyes and abs. power corrupts, absolutely ;)Dec 31 18:32
neighborleeyadda ;)Dec 31 18:32
schestowitzAnd I never met a chimp with a private plane ;-)Dec 31 18:32
neighborleeat least with some peopleDec 31 18:32
schestowitzMaybe except some CEO of a company from Redmond. :-)Dec 31 18:32
neighborleelolDec 31 18:33
schestowitzCheap shot, never mind..Dec 31 18:33
neighborleenot really cheapDec 31 18:33
schestowitzNow the ecnomy is collapsing.Dec 31 18:33
schestowitzHow's it where you are?Dec 31 18:33
neighborleea shot yes, but they  bring it on themselves.Dec 31 18:33
neighborleeoh..Dec 31 18:33
neighborleeoverall fine.Dec 31 18:33
schestowitzGoodDec 31 18:33
neighborleemany rich people out hereDec 31 18:33
neighborleeimagine that..M$,  boeing..yadda ;)Dec 31 18:34
schestowitzSo they build fences now.. ?Dec 31 18:34
neighborleehaDec 31 18:34
schestowitzFor the mob?Dec 31 18:34
neighborleegod knows ;)Dec 31 18:34
neighborleei'd rather not atm..I have enough oh my plate ;)Dec 31 18:34
neighborleeoh/onDec 31 18:34
schestowitzTaiwan Asks Powerchip to Resubmit Bailout Proposal < http://www.pcworld.com/article/156207/p... >Dec 31 18:42
schestowitzhttp://www.schneier.com/blog/archi...Dec 31 18:44
trmancogrrDec 31 20:32
trmancomotzarella is down, no usenet for now :(Dec 31 20:32
neighborleeI dont even use usenet..I know about it but thats it,,is that c razy ? lolDec 31 20:36
neighborleeo_0Dec 31 20:36
schestowitzBad timingDec 31 20:36
schestowitzMark's is down tooDec 31 20:36
schestowitzI'll catch up with followups in the weekend when it's back up. Web-based is a mess for tracking high-activity NGsDec 31 20:37
trmancoit is back onlineDec 31 20:41
schestowitzMany trolls use motzarella, so I'm sure they'll be delightedDec 31 20:46
trmancololDec 31 20:49
trmancoit was just for a couple of minutes, they probably didn't noticeDec 31 20:49
trmancohttp://groups.google.com/group/com...Dec 31 20:50
schestowitzI don't want to view it from GoogleDec 31 20:51
schestowitzThe trolls are not invisible. ;-)Dec 31 20:51
trmancowhat do you mean?Dec 31 20:53
trmancothey are visible, some of themDec 31 20:53
trmancothere is only one "ghost"Dec 31 20:54
schestowitzYes, but no killfileDec 31 21:03
schestowitzIt's too k00kyDec 31 21:04
tessierhttp://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option...Dec 31 22:06
tessierWTF? So are there layoffs or aren't there?Dec 31 22:06
*kentma (n=user@GLPHON22-1168101524.sdsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovellDec 31 22:48
kentmaHappy new one to allDec 31 22:49
trmancohappy new year to you too :)Dec 31 22:53
*kentma has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Dec 31 23:06
*kentma (n=user@GLPHON22-1168101524.sdsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovellDec 31 23:06
*kentma1 (n=user@GLPHON22-1168101524.sdsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovellDec 31 23:18
*kentma has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Dec 31 23:19
trmancohttp://www.groklaw.net/article.ph...Dec 31 23:24
*kevin_ (n=kevin@adsl-71-132-192-32.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #boycottnovellDec 31 23:30
kevin_did you hear about the massive zune meltdown?Dec 31 23:30
MinceRi didDec 31 23:31
kevin_quite funnyDec 31 23:33
trmancoLeaked Windows 7 Beta Includes Free Security Holes: http://www.blogpirate.org/2008/12/31/leak...Dec 31 23:34
trmancoMicrofoot has an explanation for the Zune failureDec 31 23:35
kevin_we can always go back to 1969... heheDec 31 23:35
trmancohttp://gizmodo.com/5121822/official-fi...Dec 31 23:35
trmancohttp://ml2mst.googlepages.com/nomono.png << LOLDec 31 23:38
MinceRthey always have an explanationDec 31 23:43
MinceRwhat they don't have is reliable productsDec 31 23:43

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