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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 1st, 2009


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kevin_the moue I purchased 5 years ago still worksJan 01 01:04
kevin_mouse*Jan 01 01:04
kevin_my connection is being lagtastic todayJan 01 01:08
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twittertrmanco, the Windows 7 Beta handed out to trusted ANALysts and other partners had security holes too.  Windows will always have big gaping holes.Jan 01 03:15
twitterAccording to FUDzilla, there will be 17% laid off, 15,000 people.Jan 01 03:17
twitterIt could not have happened to a more deserving group.  People who work for evil always pay the price themselves.Jan 01 03:18
twitterHappy New Year!Jan 01 03:18
MinceRwhen is it ballmer's time to pay?Jan 01 03:19
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MinceRgnJan 01 04:31
schestowitzHey guysJan 01 07:47
schestowitzSorry, I forget to change my status to "away" last night. tessier thanks a lot for the pointer; trmanco too. I'll catch up with COLA now.Jan 01 07:48
tessierHiJan 01 07:48
tessierYou're welcome.Jan 01 07:48
schestowitzIntel might be nextJan 01 07:50
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Omar87HiJan 01 08:03
schestowitzHi, Omar87. Happy new year (Gregorian?)Jan 01 08:05
schestowitzThe UK becomes more of a police state: "The private sector will be asked to manage and run a communications database that will keep track of everyone's calls, emails, texts and internet use under a key option contained in a consultation paper to be published next month by Jacqui Smith, the home secretary." < >Jan 01 08:33
schestowitz"I can see the political advantages of doing so - "oh no, *we* didn't lose all your intimate data, blame the company" - but this is stupidity squared." < >Jan 01 08:33
schestowitzComplicated Web with Enderle sttacking Linux on new year's eve. He does this in Mac sites too < > driving them mad. I remember the days when I was new to scanning news sites and people had to instruct me on the presence of "moles" that must not receive attention, or else they will provoke some more (that's what they want).Jan 01 08:34
schestowitzIt's the same with physical newspapers BTW, but I don't explore these. Political buffs know who's with who and who can be trusted.Jan 01 08:34
schestowitzThe Future of Compiz In Question < >Jan 01 08:35
schestowitzA friend says: "Is Novell betraying the FOSS community or helping us eat Microsoft's lunch?  Probably a little bit of both, but with a greater emphasis on the latter, rather than the former.  openSUSE is listed as one of the 10 best "open source" products of 2008, along with Intrepid and Fedora 9, due to openSUSE's ability to convert some MS files..."Jan 01 08:35
schestowitzCRN is boosting Novell stuff *smacks forehead* rom that page: "There is some business advantage to consider OpenSUSE instead of Ubuntu or Fedora because of Novell's relationship with Microsoft..."Jan 01 08:36
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Omar871Hi Roy.Jan 01 08:37
schestowitzHeyJan 01 08:37
schestowitzWhere did the old nick go?Jan 01 08:37
Omar871The old Nick?Jan 01 08:37
schestowitz"<Omar87>" -- seems as though it was droppedJan 01 08:38
Omar871schestowitz: I'm not sure. Maybe because I was using the same profile on my other machine.Jan 01 08:39
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schestowitzI'll post some links in BNJan 01 08:40
Omar871It does seem like a happy start for the new year, though, -_-Jan 01 08:41
schestowitzWe had another record month last nightJan 01 08:42
schestowitzBN got a quarter of a million hits yesterday alone.Jan 01 08:42
schestowitz3 gigbytes. :-)Jan 01 08:42
Omar871Cool!Jan 01 08:43
Omar871But, I'm talking about something else, man.Jan 01 08:43
schestowitzWhat is it then?Jan 01 08:44
schestowitzI think it'll be a horrible yearJan 01 08:44
schestowitzBut people are distracted by festivities.Jan 01 08:44
schestowitzMicrosoft is set to lay off far more than people speculated on the face of it.Jan 01 08:44
Omar871People of Gaza are being fried to death right now..Jan 01 08:44
tessierHopefully they'll stop launching rockets.Jan 01 08:46
schestowitztessier: they need to establish a ceasefire for good.Jan 01 08:47
schestowitzThe right-wing idiots in Israel don't helpJan 01 08:47
Omar871Stop launching rocket? Not before Israelis stop frying them with their most lethal, a globally prohibited weapon systems on earth.Jan 01 08:49
Omar871and*Jan 01 08:49
Omar871Stop a couple of men from launching simple and tiny fireworks at them, they go and burn the entire city down? Kill the innocent kids and women? How's that fair?Jan 01 08:51
schestowitzI think all those responsible for violating laws need to be brought to trial.Jan 01 08:51
schestowitzThe same goes for the USJan 01 08:51
Omar871Who are you talk about exactly?Jan 01 08:51
schestowitzBush and Cheney need to be trailed for crimes against humanity and other offenses..Jan 01 08:52
tessierOmar871: Israel wasn't frying them two weeks ago. But rockets were falling.Jan 01 08:52
schestowitzOmar871: whoever. Either side.Jan 01 08:52
schestowitzThere are rules that are not obeyedJan 01 08:52
schestowitzCreative Commons flourishing despite rough economy < >Jan 01 08:53
Omar871Well, Israel is the only country that has never ever obeyed a rule ever since it was established.Jan 01 08:54
Omar871tessier, and missles were falling whether or not rockets were launched.Jan 01 08:55
schestowitzThis reminds me of US capitalismJan 01 08:55
schestowitzThere are rules, but nobody enfroces themJan 01 08:55
schestowitzOr it's done selectively.Jan 01 08:55
schestowitzThose who enforce the rules only bother with those whom they are not friends with.Jan 01 08:55
schestowitzThe US has committed its share of violations tooJan 01 08:56
schestowitzFor example, targeted assassinations in South America if the government wasn't a puppet of the USJan 01 08:56
tessierschestowitz: After spending a year in Vietnam where they have capitalism without democracy I realized that the US does a better job than anyone in enforcing the rules. If you think things are bad here go to somewhere like Vietnam or even Gaza. Corruption and death like you cannot imagine.Jan 01 08:56
schestowitzI see you point, but..Jan 01 08:57
tessierOmar871: Before last week it had been quite a while before missiles were falling in Gaza.Jan 01 08:57
schestowitzThe US stagnates in terms of its ability to enforce trade rules. Watch the SEC and FTC...Jan 01 08:57
tessierBut nothing. We can improve but we're still the fattest and the most spoiled in the whole planet.Jan 01 08:57
Omar871tessier And the same is for the rockets.Jan 01 08:58
schestowitzAnd then there are obvious violations for which its leader never stood trial.Jan 01 08:58
schestowitzMany sides deserve the blame in each conflictJan 01 08:58
Omar871tessier: And can you tell me what's a small rocket compared to an F16?Jan 01 08:58
tessierOmar871: My understanding is that there has been a pretty steady flow of rockets over the last year.Jan 01 08:58
schestowitzBut if only the UN or whatever wasn't a toothless tigerJan 01 08:58
tessierOmar871: Just because they are poor with crappy weapons doesn't mean they can do whatever they want and get sympathy.Jan 01 08:59
schestowitztessier: I think it's done for a reason.Jan 01 08:59
Omar871tessier: They were all a response to the endless attacks from Israeli'sJan 01 08:59
schestowitzBeing repressed isn't easy, either.Jan 01 09:00
tessierOmar871: What do you think the Israeli's want?Jan 01 09:00
schestowitzOmar871: that's why ceasefire would be best. No casualties.Jan 01 09:00
tessierOmar871: Somehow the vast majority of the world gets along with Israel. But I don't know many people who get along with Hamas.Jan 01 09:00
schestowitzThey all need to stop thinking with ego and realise that peaceful coexistence is better.Jan 01 09:00
tessierIt is Israel's misfortune to have bad neighbors.Jan 01 09:00
Omar871tessier: Actually you seem to have no idea what happened.Jan 01 09:02
schestowitzThe pres is bisedJan 01 09:02
schestowitz*biasedJan 01 09:02
tessierOmar871: So inform me. Can you give me a url to the most recent Israeli attack prior to the violence of the last week?Jan 01 09:03
Omar871tessier: the palestinians were living in peace when israelis came and occupied their land, and started killing them massively.Jan 01 09:03
schestowitzIt leads to misconceptions through omission mostly (the 'press')Jan 01 09:03
tessierOmar871: Are you referring to the creation of Israel in the first place?Jan 01 09:03
tessierOmar871: Or which land specifically are you referring to?Jan 01 09:04
Omar871 01 09:04
Omar871Maybe you won't understand what's written in there.Jan 01 09:04
tessierOmar871: You know I am now a minority in my own country right? We used to be almost all white Europeans here. Now greater than 50% of California is latino. They have invaded our land. Yet somehow we exist without war.Jan 01 09:05
tessieruh..Jan 01 09:05
tessierYeah. I'm not going to understand a word of that. Sorry. I only speak english and spanish.Jan 01 09:05
Omar871But you will absolutely have no trouble understanding the pictures in the video.Jan 01 09:05
tessierVideo without context? No thanks.Jan 01 09:05
schestowitzAs I understand it, Arab Israelis are still therein the split state  and more Palestinians arrived much laterJan 01 09:06
Omar871 01 09:07
Omar871Here's the translationJan 01 09:07
tessierWhy do all of these websites sound so nutty talking about lord and god and martyrs?Jan 01 09:08
tessierHow about some names, dates, places, events, timelines, etc?Jan 01 09:08
tessierMaybe it's just the translation.Jan 01 09:08
tessierAnd when faced with a much more powerful enemy would on earth would one provoke them by firing rockets?Jan 01 09:09
tessiers/would/why/Jan 01 09:09
tessierSounds like they need fewer martyrs and more diplomats.Jan 01 09:09
tessierI saw the president (or prime minister, I forget) of Palestine on TV and he sounded fairly reasonable.Jan 01 09:10
tessierThen they had some guys wearing masks talking about dying for their cause to the last one.Jan 01 09:10
tessierI know if I were Israel I would much rather deal with the former.Jan 01 09:10
tessierI think the problem is that they can't maintain security within their own country without getting themselves killed.Jan 01 09:11
tessierI bet the president would very much like to talk but his hands are tied by extremists.Jan 01 09:11
tessierSecurity-wise it is like our situation down in Mexico with the drugs. We would all like the violence there to end. We have had hundreds killed in Tijuana alone in the last year. More than have been killed in the last week of war between Israel and Gaza.Jan 01 09:12
tessierBut that war right down the street from me gets no news coverage outside of the immediate area.Jan 01 09:12
tessierAnd nobody is talking such nuttery as suicide bombers such as in Israel/Gaza.Jan 01 09:12
Omar871 01 09:13
Omar871But, still, you're not making any sense.Jan 01 09:14
Omar871Did you read the history?Jan 01 09:15
Omar871Do you know how Israel was established?Jan 01 09:15
tessier350 people dead is one of the largest massacres in 60 years? We had over 3000 people killed in one morning on September 11, 2001. And the guys who did it love to send their videos to Al Jazeera for air time.Jan 01 09:15
tessierYes. Although I bet you have a different version of the history.Jan 01 09:15
Omar871What's your version?Jan 01 09:16
tessier"The Road To 9/11" does a good job of explaining how the whole middle-east was divided up after the Austro-Hungarian empire fell after World War I.Jan 01 09:16
tessierAnd then talks about the creation of Israel after WWII.Jan 01 09:16
tessierIf Israel stopped the invasion immediately would the rocket attacks from Gaza also stop immediately?Jan 01 09:18
tessier"Even some Arab outlets have attempted to equate Palestinian resistance - and homemade rockets - with the might of the Israeli military machine." - Home made rockets that travel 19 kilometers?! That seems rather unlikely. I can't even make a home made rocket here in the US that will fly 19km using purpose-made hobby rocket motors etc.Jan 01 09:19
tessierhah...funny coincidence: My wife was given a gift of some hand lotion and other beauty supplies. We just noticed on the box "Made In Israel"Jan 01 09:25
tessier"At least 19 civilians in Israel have now been killed by rockets fired from Gaza in the past eight years." - Only 19? I'm surprised Israel is that concerned. I also wonder why some sort of Patriot (or similar) anti-missile system cannot be used to ring Gaza with a shield.Jan 01 09:33
Omar871tessier: That's a big fat lie.Jan 01 09:36
tessierWhat is?Jan 01 09:36
Omar871tessier: That 19 isleali's only were killed by rockets in the past 8 years.Jan 01 09:36
tessierMore were killed?Jan 01 09:36
Omar871Yes much more.Jan 01 09:37
Omar871tessier: Plus, again, you're not making sense.Jan 01 09:37
Omar871tessier: You're not fair either.Jan 01 09:37
tessierThey were all civilians right? As far as I know these rockets do not have targeting systems. They fly at random.Jan 01 09:37
Omar871tessier: Wrong.Jan 01 09:37
tessierThe rockets have guidance?Jan 01 09:38
Omar871tessier: The F16 have targeting systems, and 100000% of their targets are innocent kids.Jan 01 09:38
Omar871tessier: No, but "They were all civilians" is wrong.Jan 01 09:39
tessierI am not talking about the F-16's. I know very well that airplane. I am talking about Israeli's killed by Hamas rockets. Israel says 19 people have been killed by rockets in the last 8 years. You say there were more?Jan 01 09:39
Omar871And I'm not talking about Isreali's killed by Hammas rockets, I'm talking the about the innocent families fried to death right in their homes by the F16.Jan 01 09:41
tessierWhy can Hamas launch rockets without guidance at civilian populations in Israel and it's ok but Israel cannot do the same?Jan 01 09:41
Omar871tessier: And yes, I say they were much more.Jan 01 09:41
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Omar871tessier: Because, when Hammas fire rockets, that's their fair tiny response to the one big huge isreali missile that fried 50 innocent people at once.Jan 01 09:43
tessierSounds ethically the same to me. Hamas is simply very poor with crude weapons.Jan 01 09:43
tessierMaybe Hamas should build some factories, make some money, and buy their own jets.Jan 01 09:44
Omar871tessier: And they're fighting back to because Isreal killed their famillies.Jan 01 09:44
Omar871tessier: That's not possible.Jan 01 09:44
tessierThe Israeli's did it.Jan 01 09:44
tessierAnd if putting up a fight isn't possible maybe they should fight less and talk more.Jan 01 09:45
Omar871tessier: Because weapons are prohibited from hamas, but all colors, shapes, and types of the world's most lethal and globally prohibited weapons systems, are totally allowed for isreal.Jan 01 09:45
Omar871Can you tell me how, on earth is that fair?Jan 01 09:45
tessierOmar871: If weapons were really prohibited from Hamas where are those rockets that land in Israel coming from?Jan 01 09:46
Omar871tessier: They are making them.Jan 01 09:46
Omar871tessier: Plus, for the tenth time, you're at sounding fair at all.Jan 01 09:47
tessierThey are not making their own rockets that can fly 19 kilometers.Jan 01 09:48
tessierThey are buying them from China. They are Katyusha rockets.Jan 01 09:48
Omar871tessier: by your theory Israel is totally, allowed to have those lethal weapon systems, and using them to fry the innocent people, women and children to be precise, and Hamas is not allowed to fight back at all, how's that fair?Jan 01 09:48
tessierThe three countries that manufacture Grad-model Katyushas are China, Russia and Bulgaria.Jan 01 09:48
tessierOmar871: Life is not fair. War is not fair. Don't get involved in a war.Jan 01 09:49
tessierHamas has absolutely the worlds worst diplomats.Jan 01 09:49
Omar871tessier: Tell Israel to stop the missiles first.Jan 01 09:50
tessierIsrael wasn't firing missiles at Gaza the week before last.Jan 01 09:50
tessierIf they stop now what will be any different?Jan 01 09:50
Omar871tessier: And neither was Hamas, if you haven't notices.Jan 01 09:51
Omar871noticed*Jan 01 09:51
tessierI thought you said many more than 19 people were killed in Israel by Hamas rockets?Jan 01 09:51
Omar871tessier: Yes.Jan 01 09:51
tessierHamas has been launching rockets into Israel for years.Jan 01 09:51
tessierAnd Israel was not flying F-16's over Gaza.Jan 01 09:51
tessierUntil last week.Jan 01 09:51
Omar871tessier: Not true.Jan 01 09:51
tessierYou pick on someone long enough and even the most patient man will get tired of it.Jan 01 09:52
tessierOmar871: There have been F-16 attacks in Gaza before last week?Jan 01 09:52
Omar871tessier: No, and neither was there any rockets launched at Isreal.Jan 01 09:52
tessierI'm confused.Jan 01 09:52
tessierYou said far more than 19 Israeli's were killed by Hamas rockets in the last 8 years. Now you say there were no rockets. I'm confused.Jan 01 09:53
Omar871I'm not talking about the past 8 years.Jan 01 09:53
Omar871I'm talking about the past month.Jan 01 09:53
Omar871Plus, 8 ago isn't when Isreal was established, and it isn't when all this war has begun.Jan 01 09:55
tessierSo Hamas launched unguided Katyusha rockets at Israel for at least 7 years and 11 months but none in the last month and killed many more than 19 Israeli's.Jan 01 09:55
tessierI know. I say 8 only because the statistic I am aware of says 19 killed in the last 8 years. I know it has gone on far longer than that.Jan 01 09:55
tessierSo you are saying that Hamas has been a good neighbor for the last month and despite everything that has happened before Israel has no legitimate reason for attacking Gaza. Correct?Jan 01 09:56
tessierJust trying to understand what you are saying.Jan 01 09:56
schestowitzA fair question to ask is, what led to the rockets in the first place.Jan 01 09:56
Omar871Well, the static you have is not a holy book, it's a big fat liy.Jan 01 09:56
schestowitzThe frustration comes from sieges too.Jan 01 09:56
Omar871schestowitz: The frustration came from the massecres of Sabra and Shateila.Jan 01 09:57
tessierschestowitz: And the sieges came from suicide bombers making their way into Israel and the suicide bombers were motivated by something else Israel did and it's forever an endless tit for tat.Jan 01 09:57
schestowitzThis is why diplomacy is needed.Jan 01 09:57
tessierschestowitz: Exactly.Jan 01 09:57
tessierSomeone has got to end it.Jan 01 09:57
schestowitzYesJan 01 09:57
schestowitzYes to bothJan 01 09:57
tessierI will praise highly whoever decide to stop shooting first instead of justifying another round of violence.Jan 01 09:57
tessierBe it Hamas or Israel.Jan 01 09:57
schestowitzAyeJan 01 09:57
tessierAnd with that pleasant universal agreement among us all I must now get to bed.Jan 01 09:58
tessierThanks for the interesting chat. I really like hearing your point of view, Omar871. Goodnight! :)Jan 01 09:58
Omar871tessier: first tell Israel to get rid of their lethal weapon systems, and then come talking about diplomacy.Jan 01 09:58
Omar871tessier: No problem. :)Jan 01 09:58
schestowitzYupJan 01 09:58
schestowitzNo nukesJan 01 09:58
schestowitzSame with the USJan 01 09:59
Omar871Exactly.Jan 01 09:59
schestowitzOtherwise it's hypocrisy that jepardizes the worldJan 01 09:59
schestowitzI worry a lot more about nukes than some missilesJan 01 09:59
Omar871Yeah, that's true.Jan 01 09:59
schestowitzLess war, more agreementsJan 01 10:00
schestowitzCold wars also.Jan 01 10:01
Omar871Umm, yeah.Jan 01 10:01
schestowitz :-) Read the first one.Jan 01 10:02
Omar871OH! I 4got to tell you.Jan 01 10:04
schestowitzYou got Zune??" ;-)Jan 01 10:04
Omar871Next tuesday, we'll be holding a Linux Installation Festival at my you Uni.Jan 01 10:04
schestowitzExcellent.Jan 01 10:04
schestowitzLUG?Jan 01 10:04
Omar871A LIF.Jan 01 10:05
Omar871Linux Installation Festival.Jan 01 10:05
schestowitzWhich distros?Jan 01 10:05
Omar871I'm not sure yet.Jan 01 10:05
schestowitzI quite like some distros that I see.Jan 01 10:05
schestowitzParsix looks nice.Jan 01 10:05
schestowitzI have accumulated many articles about it.Jan 01 10:05
Omar871Of course, there'll be Fedora, Ubuntu, and couple more.Jan 01 10:06
schestowitzIt's Debian or Ubuntu based (maybe they changed)Jan 01 10:06
Omar871Parsix is good, yeah.Jan 01 10:06
schestowitzI assume localisation is needed.Jan 01 10:06
Omar871Localisation?Jan 01 10:06
schestowitzThough I never used anything but EnglishJan 01 10:07
Omar871Oh, you mean Arabic Language?Jan 01 10:07
schestowitzor *languagesJan 01 10:07
schestowitzI can't quite tell the difference between the tonguesJan 01 10:08
Omar871Oh, yeah, speaking of Languages, there's also a brand new distro based on Fedora, that was release a couple of weeks ago.Jan 01 10:08
Omar871It's called Ojouba (meaning: Miracle).Jan 01 10:09
schestowitzOmega?Jan 01 10:09
schestowitzOhJan 01 10:09
schestowitzMaybe not on DistroWatchJan 01 10:09
Omar871No, not yet.Jan 01 10:09
Omar871It was made by a man who lives in Zarqa, Jordan.Jan 01 10:10
Omar871Lol, he once gave an Alpha version of it, to try it out and give him my feed back.Jan 01 10:10
Omar871Too bad my HDD got screwed up a couple of days after, and I couldn't use it.Jan 01 10:11
schestowitzWas it made with the spinner?Jan 01 10:12
Omar871spinner?Jan 01 10:12
schestowitzMany people can create it this wayJan 01 10:12
schestowitzYes, also USB keysJan 01 10:12
Omar871What's a spinner?Jan 01 10:12
schestowitzI wonder if the MAFIAA collects "you're a third" tax on USB drivesJan 01 10:13
schestowitzLet me get a linkJan 01 10:13
Omar871sure.Jan 01 10:13
schestowitzHehe.Jan 01 10:14
schestowitzCheck top result: 01 10:14
schestowitz 01 10:17
schestowitzFeelin' right at home at FB :-) Jan 01 10:20
schestowitzSecurity experts work out how to hack banks < >Jan 01 10:21
schestowitzAMD lays off 100 more < > Abu Dhabi has some shares, IIRC.Jan 01 10:23
schestowitzMicrosoft's Latest Global Problem < >Jan 01 10:54
schestowitzThe cute one is apparently leaving Google.. Earthquakes start: 01 10:54
Omar871schestowitz: I'm having a feeling that Europe is more FOSS supportive than the US, what do you think?Jan 01 11:26
schestowitzOf course.Jan 01 11:33
schestowitzUS is /very/ bad when it comes to FOSS, for a fact confirmed by polls and some research for trustworthy sources. The UK is the exception in Europe; it's very, very supportive of the white-collars criminals.Jan 01 11:33
schestowitz*collarJan 01 11:34
Omar871white-collar?Jan 01 11:34
schestowitzThe biggest criminals wear suitsJan 01 11:34
schestowitzThe UK supports some of them.Jan 01 11:34
Omar871You, mean the UK is the worst country when it comes to supporting FOSS?Jan 01 11:35
schestowitzThat too, but there are other issues. I don't want to go under the radar of 'dissidence' hunters ;-)Jan 01 11:36
Omar871:)Jan 01 11:37
schestowitzMy new year's resolution is 3520x1200Jan 01 11:43
trmanco:oJan 01 11:43
schestowitzLast year's was betterJan 01 11:43
schestowitz3840x1440Jan 01 11:44
schestowitzLooking at my log for the past 3 hours, I find:Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzmicrosoft layoffs1523.8 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzmicrosoft69.5 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzmicrosoft layoff46.3 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzmicrosoft layoffs 200834.7 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzboycottnovell23.1 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzboycott novell23.1 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitznovell23.1 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzfree download window vista-7 software11.5 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzopensuse turn off firewall selinux11.5 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzopensuse 11.1 reviews11.5 %Jan 01 11:46
schestowitz===============Jan 01 11:46
schestowitzThat's search referrals. In just 3 hours.Jan 01 11:46
trmanco*LOL* -> free download window vista-7 software 1 1.5 %Jan 01 11:48
schestowitz"Vista 7"Jan 01 11:49
schestowitzThey start to get it. ;-) Freudian slip?Jan 01 11:49
schestowitzMicrosoft plague threatens 30GB Zune extinction < >Jan 01 11:54
schestowitz"Some have also experienced the sudden Zune death with 80GB models."Jan 01 11:55
schestowitz"At noon Pacific time on December 31, Microsoft tossed us the same statement it tossed Ars. Still no solution to speak of."Jan 01 11:55
schestowitzBricking of Zunes... Microsoft is ruining itself.Jan 01 11:56
schestowitzFuture issues: Is Google's culture grab unstoppable? < >Jan 01 11:56
trmancoI love Windows. I really, really do. (Yeah, right): http://theflamingbanker.blogspot....Jan 01 12:07
schestowitzWhose fault is it?Jan 01 12:09
trmancoWindows I guessJan 01 12:10
trmancoDLL problemJan 01 12:10
schestowitzRage Against the Zune (watch photo): 01 12:11
schestowitzThese Microsoft lackeys fail to get across the real story: 01 12:12
schestowitzThe real story is about Microsoft putting in prison people whom it knew and implicitly ENDORSED for a long time. 01 12:12
trmancoyeah, nice photoJan 01 12:12
schestowitzThey are going extinct these Zune... maybe the last nail of their coffin... see links in COLA.Jan 01 12:13
trmancoyep, already saw themJan 01 12:16
schestowitz 01 12:17
schestowitzWow!! 01 12:25
schestowitzThe story: Jan 01 12:25
schestowitz 01 12:25
schestowitzSteve Stites: "Richard Stallman's ideas on Free Software are grounded in academic freedom. I think that his ideas are well thought out and I agree with them."Jan 01 12:29
schestowitzbblJan 01 12:57
MinceRhow are you gentlemen !!Jan 01 14:04
Omar871We're fine, how are youJan 01 14:09
Omar871?Jan 01 14:09
MinceRme tooJan 01 14:11
schestowitzGentlemen, eh?Jan 01 15:52
schestowitzBN has some females too.Jan 01 15:52
schestowitzThanks to feedback from reader: "I just cleaned up the text, do you want it verified from the source, what is the source doc ? If I understand correctly and in relation to MS getting Sony to finance and IBM to do the actual work on the XBOX processor, a brief quote from billg re getting IBMed would have done and a link to the whole doc .." Jan 01 16:06
schestowitz (I merged the texts to avoid typos)Jan 01 16:06
schestowitzThis reader that I quote there and attribute says: "Boycottnovell is too focused on the Microsoft/Novell partnership. We need to broaden it out and attract a bigger readership. So how about it .. this could be as big as Groklaw ? A combination Wiki and Blog ?? GL is more of a legal site, I'm talking about a tech-business related site .."Jan 01 16:09
schestowitzHe thinks I should also quick COLA, which would harm advocacy and research by people.. :-( "It would also be a good time to stop posting to COLA and publish this new blog semi-anonymously .."Jan 01 16:09
schestowitzAnother reader writes: '"I was asked for 2009 expectations, and I mentioned that Microsoft might file for Chapter 11 in 2009. If those 15k layoffs do come up, it will be interesting how many people start wondering €«hmms... better sell my shares€»... :) ""Jan 01 16:10
schestowitzBarron's won't tell them. NBC won't tell them. Rob Enderle won't tell us. ;-) Neither will Gar$tner. Remember how SCO went down?  Enron?Jan 01 16:10
*dsmith_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 01 16:12
schestowitz (How Is It Cyberbullying When Students Are Exposing Teacher Abuses?) I started reading this site 2 months ago and I enjoy it very much. It covers important issues. Mass Failure Of 30GB Zunes Shows That At Least A Few People Actually Own Zunes < >Jan 01 16:17
schestowitzA part of Microsoft is already dying: 01 16:24
schestowitzgaryedwards :,1000001161... Why does he comment on a 2007 article??????Jan 01 16:35
schestowitz OMG, is "Mary Jo" really Mary Jo Foley??Jan 01 16:48
schestowitzDid she say "Really, go suck on a razor blade and get over it."???Jan 01 16:48
*kevin_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 01 16:59
*neighborlee ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 01 17:00
trmanco 01 17:07
trmancoanother MS bug?Jan 01 17:07
schestowitzEwww.. Windows is ugly.Jan 01 17:08
schestowitzAnd buggy too.Jan 01 17:08
schestowitzLike progress bars that go past 100%Jan 01 17:09
schestowitzOr Zunes that die on a pseudo-leap year..Jan 01 17:09
trmancololJan 01 17:09
trmancomicrolifeJan 01 17:09
schestowitz.Microfle^H^H^H^H0x00DFJan 01 17:13
kevin_heh... i saw people saying that you shouldn't be allowed to get a windows refund because you can't get an engine refund when you buy a carJan 01 17:15
trmancoit is not the same thingJan 01 17:16
kevin_correct. when i buy a car, i can take the engine out and hand it to youJan 01 17:16
kevin_there was a blog where someone talked about their experiences getting refunds though. it was an interesting readJan 01 17:17
kevin_ 01 17:18
schestowitzWindows is not an engine. It's more like an exhaust pipeJan 01 17:18
neighborleeroflJan 01 17:19
neighborleegood one there roy ;)Jan 01 17:19
*dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jan 01 17:21
*divinebovine ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 01 17:27
divinebovineoh hiJan 01 17:28
neighborleehi thereJan 01 17:28
divinebovinehehe didnt know this chan existedJan 01 17:28
divinebovineneighborlee: i thought what you said made a lot of senseJan 01 17:28
neighborleedivinebovine: well kewl now you do ;)heheJan 01 17:28
neighborleedivinebovine: ???Jan 01 17:28
neighborleeoh mean #blender ?Jan 01 17:28
divinebovineyeahJan 01 17:28
neighborleeahhhhhhhhhJan 01 17:28
neighborleewell,,thank you for your support..for a moment I thought i'd get heckled HUGE,but things were ok I guess ;)Jan 01 17:29
neighborleesomeone asked for my opinion afterall, so I gave it ;)Jan 01 17:29
divinebovinei'm always amazed at how seemingly smart peple can think in such confused waysJan 01 17:29
neighborleedivinebovine: but I didnt want to digress any longer , since ahem its for blender not mono talk :)Jan 01 17:29
divinebovineyeah *nod* :)Jan 01 17:30
neighborlee:)Jan 01 17:30
neighborleeyes true..I think the trouble is many dont realize the mess mono isJan 01 17:31
neighborleethey trudge along, using it not realizing..Jan 01 17:31
divinebovinemono is flipping insanityJan 01 17:31
divinebovinei'm convinced that the dude that started is a troll paid by msJan 01 17:31
neighborleewe see that clearly..sadly not enough do yetJan 01 17:31
divinebovinethats theonly way to explain his behaviourJan 01 17:31
neighborleeI always suspect as much yesJan 01 17:31
neighborleeto see it in #blender,,kinda surprised me,,bu hey its not a small channel anymore ;))Jan 01 17:32
divinebovinethis boycott novell has nothing to do with idealismJan 01 17:32
neighborleecorrectJan 01 17:32
neighborleeits about ob jective journalismJan 01 17:32
divinebovinei wish it was more clear that it has to do with business strategyJan 01 17:32
divinebovinems cannot use their old strategy of extend and extinguishJan 01 17:32
divinebovinenot with open sourceJan 01 17:32
divinebovinebut they can muddy the watters by infiltrating the communityJan 01 17:32
divinebovinethats the purpose novel and whatsis name serveJan 01 17:33
neighborleevery correctJan 01 17:33
neighborleesadlyJan 01 17:33
divinebovineat one time when i started with linux i thought our biggest problem was money and resourcesJan 01 17:33
divinebovineor lack thereofJan 01 17:33
neighborleeOMG how things have changed ;)Jan 01 17:34
divinebovinethen one day someone explained to me that putting money into the debian project would taint it in bad waysJan 01 17:34
divinebovinetreJan 01 17:34
divinebovinetrue evenJan 01 17:34
divinebovinebutJan 01 17:34
neighborlee:)Jan 01 17:34
divinebovinethe debian philosophy has turned out to be trueJan 01 17:34
divinebovineand rms was right at the end of all of thisJan 01 17:34
neighborleeyeah taint is a weird word in today world..chicago politics being  amoung some of the nastiest examples ;)Jan 01 17:34
neighborleeas of late I mean ;)Jan 01 17:34
divinebovinehehJan 01 17:35
neighborleedivinebovine: yes and thank god debian ( and fedora of course) , aren't using mono/moonlight ;))Jan 01 17:35
neighborleemajor whew ;)Jan 01 17:35
neighborleeat least      fedora doesnt in livecd..dvd is sadly, a entirely different matter.Jan 01 17:35
divinebovinei dropped gnome for a lot of reasonsJan 01 17:35
neighborleeme tooJan 01 17:35
divinebovinebut one of them was the continual use of monoJan 01 17:35
divinebovineits insanityJan 01 17:35
neighborleeI never thought I would..but its toast for me.Jan 01 17:35
neighborleeyupJan 01 17:36
divinebovinesame hereJan 01 17:36
divinebovine*nod*Jan 01 17:36
neighborlee:(*Jan 01 17:36
divinebovinei've used it for years and yearsJan 01 17:36
neighborleeme too...literallyJan 01 17:36
divinebovineluckily qt is fully gpld now and the kde team really understands freedom in the rms/debian sense i thinkJan 01 17:36
divinebovinei hope it stays that wayJan 01 17:36
neighborleeI hope so as wellJan 01 17:37
*kevin_ has quit ("leaving")Jan 01 17:39
neighborleedivinebovine: rms himself says ,,if things like fspot, tomboy are 'that' important/kewl, they should be  rewritten in something else..Idoubt many know that ;)Jan 01 17:42
neighborleedivinebovine: it wasn't that long ago really, that he said it eitherJan 01 17:42
neighborleego figureJan 01 17:43
divinebovineindeedJan 01 17:43
divinebovineas such, both apps suck the big oneJan 01 17:43
divinebovineespecially fspotJan 01 17:43
schestowitzHeyJan 01 17:43
neighborleehi royJan 01 17:43
neighborleehappy new years ;))Jan 01 17:43
schestowitzI was distracted by some Zune post I'm doing.Jan 01 17:44
neighborleeahhhh imagine that ;)Jan 01 17:44
neighborleewhat a mess  about zune ;))lolJan 01 17:44
neighborleeI think Microsoft just likes the press LOLJan 01 17:44
*schestowitz catches upJan 01 17:44
schestowitzIt's bad press... the ZuneJan 01 17:45
neighborleedivinebovine: they just need alternatives..many dont completely realize that fspot can be replaced by  say gthumb and such..and tomboy easily by zim etc.Jan 01 17:45
schestowitzZune hardly gets much pressJan 01 17:45
schestowitzPeople will not associate it with bugs and DRMJan 01 17:45
neighborleewell I meant press in general hehJan 01 17:45
neighborleeschestowitz: ah icJan 01 17:45
divinebovineyupJan 01 17:46
divinebovineneighborlee: i'll try to visit more often :)Jan 01 17:46
divinebovineglad to see this channel going, its greatJan 01 17:46
divinebovinebblJan 01 17:46
neighborleemy friend uses windows 99%, though she is geek friendly linux user too..and she never uses a note taking app...Jan 01 17:46
neighborleeso to me its just 'fluff' to      try to penetrate with monoJan 01 17:47
*divinebovine has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jan 01 17:47
*neighborlee wavesJan 01 17:47
schestowitzWhat's that GNOME quote about Windows toys?Jan 01 17:48
neighborleedunno never hoid itJan 01 17:51
schestowitzA quick word about the Zune disaster of December 30th: 01 17:51
schestowitzneighborlee: read it quickly (it's short) and let me know if you find something wonky or typos. :-) TaJan 01 17:52
schestowitzNow I'll do a quickie about Apple.Jan 01 17:52
neighborleeits fine royJan 01 17:55
neighborleeyeah apple totally dominatesJan 01 17:56
neighborleeI dont have one, prob. never will as I only will use ogg,,but hey  they do ;)Jan 01 17:56
neighborleespeaking of which I need to buy myself sometime soon , a ogg compat player, get rid of this old mp3 only one ;)Jan 01 17:57
neighborleegotta run to freinds, watching movie it seems..bbl all take care ;)Jan 01 17:57
*neighborlee has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jan 01 17:57
schestowitz It's not the first ever. Also, the big one has already begun. 15,000 to be laid off.Jan 01 20:24
schestowitzThe author of this is always pro-Microsoft.Jan 01 20:24
schestowitzBlech. "For that reason, Rob Enderle, an industry analyst with the Enderle Group, doubts that layoffs have been communicated to employees en masse -- at least, not yet."Jan 01 20:24
schestowitzYuck!! They talk to Enderle. How sad is that? "Layoffs "wouldn't surprise me," Enderle told "But I haven't heard anything about it."" <<<<<<< told InternetNews.comJan 01 20:25
schestowitzI used to think Intel owned the trademark of Netbook (someone warned me) so I've always said "sub-notebook". It turns out that the netbook Web site is owned by Intel.Jan 01 20:25
schestowitzBarrier brought down: 01 20:30
schestowitzHUH?? "A good article-style blog entry can take six hours to write! "Jan 01 20:35
trmancoLOL -> 01 20:43
schestowitzSlog?  "The ZIL code should not avoid write to the slog if the pool have a better throughput?" 01 20:58
trmancoLOLJan 01 20:59
trmancoisn't that the stuff that cars get in their engines?Jan 01 21:00
schestowitzSlog = MS "evangelism is WAR"Jan 01 21:01
schestowitz"I just want to say how much Gnome sucks as a desktop environment and I want to brag about KDE as the best Desktop environment that exist, far better than any of the Windows desktops.." 01 21:01
schestowitzThe Tux is GROWING. A penguin population boom at SeaWorld < >Jan 01 21:01
schestowitzComment: "This must be the only place in San Diego they don't pass out condoms."Jan 01 21:02
schestowitz"This must be the only place in San Diego they don't pass out condoms. Are you kidding these Penguins are from Utah."Jan 01 21:02
trmancohmmJan 01 21:03
trmancoGNOME on Fedora ins't bloated that's allJan 01 21:04
trmancoisn'tJan 01 21:04
trmancoI have FC9 at school and Nautilus does suck....Jan 01 21:05
schestowitzHow to stop OpenSuse’s Christmas Grub Theme < > WTF?Jan 01 21:05
schestowitzCompared to /what/ does it suck?Jan 01 21:05
trmancoGood thing people have choices in the Linux worldJan 01 21:06
trmancowell, that user said a bunch oh "suck" words against nautilusJan 01 21:06
trmancoof*Jan 01 21:06
schestowitz 01 21:07
schestowitzR U next?Jan 01 21:07
trmancoif he saw Ubuntu's nautilus he would't say all that non senseJan 01 21:07
schestowitzOn Fedora: http://larrythefreesoftwareguy.wordp...Jan 01 21:09
trmancohaven't tried 10 yetJan 01 21:10
trmancoI'll have to configure a squid server and I might choose Fedora or DebianJan 01 21:11
trmancoat school*Jan 01 21:11
schestowitzI could not help commenting: "I was hoping to find Canonical-specific things here. The 'innovation' comes from peers."Jan 01 21:12
trmancoCanonical may innovate in JauntyJan 01 21:15
schestowitz"Some people say I like to beat Microsoft up. Not really. I just dislike bad technology, and Microsoft makes a lot of poor-quality hardware and software. Anyone unfortunate enough to own a 30GB Zune knows exactly what I mean." 01 21:15
schestowitzJaunty is back in June, not *May* :-)Jan 01 21:15
trmancowhat do you mean?Jan 01 21:16
schestowitzJust joking.Jan 01 21:17
schestowitz"(My favorite: "I love Wikipedia because it makes me appear smarter." Not be smarter, just look smarter. Because ultimately isn't that what people really want?)" Is ISG taking cheap shots at The Wiki?Jan 01 21:17
trmancoBerry Linux 0.94 Is Based on Fedora 10: 01 21:18
trmancookJan 01 21:18
schestowitzYes, I know.Jan 01 21:19
schestowitzI hardly see it testedJan 01 21:19
schestowitzIt's Japanese, IIRCJan 01 21:19
schestowitzGood link, thanks. I'll post some to COLA now...  Gentoobayon [sic] has a new release also: 01 21:20
trmancoJapanese people are smart :-PJan 01 21:20
schestowitzyes.Jan 01 21:20
schestowitzThey have a better system than in  the west from what I can gatherJan 01 21:20
trmancoI see some contributing to the kernel with giant patchesJan 01 21:20
schestowitzBut the discipline and work culture is good as well.Jan 01 21:20
schestowitzYes, they doJan 01 21:20
schestowitzChina joins the fray tooJan 01 21:20
trmancoyeahJan 01 21:21
schestowitzThey get translation of Linux (maybe just the comments)Jan 01 21:21
schestowitzSony uses lots of Linux.Jan 01 21:21
schestowitzSomeone has just E-mailed me this: Rumor: Microsoft to lay off 17% of staff on January 15, 2009 < >Jan 01 21:25
trmanco17%, how much is 17%?Jan 01 21:27
schestowitzAbout 15kJan 01 21:29
trmancoEmployees 89,809 in 105 countries (2008)[8]Jan 01 21:29
trmancoyesJan 01 21:29
trmanco15268 to be more preciseJan 01 21:30
trmancowill this effect the trolling department?Jan 01 21:30
trmanco:-pJan 01 21:30
schestowitzYes, and subsidiaries tooJan 01 21:32
schestowitzThey have already fired in FAST and that erm.... I can't recall the name of that other one.. something with fishJan 01 21:33
trmancololJan 01 21:34
schestowitzNo, not GaryJan 01 21:36
schestowitzI'm talking about a subsidiaryJan 01 21:36
schestowitzI had a glance at cola via Google Groups earlier (GG) and I saw that the Gary Munchkin has begun fearing your posts... some people at Microsoft must be worried to see a growing army of dissenters.Jan 01 21:37
trmancooh, you read my mindJan 01 21:40
schestowitzThe trolling in COLA declines (compared to last year). Their capacity is loweredJan 01 21:41
trmancoI really thought you were referring to a different specie of "fish"Jan 01 21:41
schestowitzIn fact, the number of posts in COLA /rose/ this year, which is excellent.Jan 01 21:41
schestowitz2500 subscribers registered on Google Groups (the numbers are not what you think though)Jan 01 21:41
trmancomaybe a lot more advocates joined COLA this year...Jan 01 21:42
trmancooopsJan 01 21:42
trmancolast year (2008)Jan 01 21:42
schestowitzLet me check that company's name... 01 21:43
schestowitzRazorfishJan 01 21:43
trmancoLOLJan 01 21:43
schestowitzYupJan 01 21:43
schestowitzMaybe Razorfish employs flatfish :-)Jan 01 21:43
schestowitzThat would explain the angerJan 01 21:43
trmancoyeah, as I thought, a different specimenJan 01 21:43
trmancoLOLJan 01 21:43
trmancoone is flat the other is sharpJan 01 21:43
schestowitzCOLA was worse last year, IIRCJan 01 21:44
schestowitzThere were periodsJan 01 21:44
trmancowhat 2008 or 2007?Jan 01 21:44
schestowitzSometimes they storm the group, esp. around major releases, e.g. VIstaJan 01 21:44
schestowitzIt's said that they have done it all through the years.Jan 01 21:44
schestowitzLike a Slog.. "Mindshare"Jan 01 21:44
trmancoyeah in 2007, too bad I wasn't subed yetJan 01 21:44
schestowitzIt's a fun place if you killfile the drek.Jan 01 21:44
trmancooh yeahJan 01 21:45
schestowitzHours ago: "We shall see. I need COLA for research." friend: "You're kidding, I can't remember the last time I read anything interesting on COLA. If you must post there then di it anonymously, that way when people Google on you they won't get: "Roy Schestowitz: Portrait of a zealot | Herd Watching""Jan 01 21:45
trmancoI've been reading COLA more seriously last month and I really have to say, that some advocates really have a good sense of humorJan 01 21:46
schestowitzI find useful things in COLAJan 01 21:46
schestowitzMe: "It's too late for anonymity, mate." Him: "Yea, but it'll stop flattie and chums polluting Google search"Jan 01 21:46
trmanco*slam dunk*Jan 01 21:47
trmancobrbJan 01 21:47
schestowitzJust don't entertain the trolls.Jan 01 21:47
schestowitzFilter them if it helpsJan 01 21:47
schestowitzThey use an old version: Fiddling with Ubuntu Netbook Remix <,100000... >Jan 01 22:41
trmancobackJan 01 22:46
trmancoyeah I filter themJan 01 22:47
schestowitzTrolls are loud. Lurkers are not trolls.Jan 01 22:48
schestowitzSame in BNJan 01 22:48
schestowitzA reader easily gets the impression that mostly trolls read the site because only disruptors... well, disrupt.Jan 01 22:49
trmancooh greatJan 01 22:50
trmancofishy fish doesn't like my formatting styleJan 01 22:51
trmancoit looks too similar to yours, just because of the boxquote thing I useJan 01 22:52
schestowitzIf the Munchkins don't like something, it means it's goodJan 01 22:53
schestowitzIf they like something, it means it harms COLA or FOSSJan 01 22:53
schestowitzIf they attack a message, it means it scares MicrosoftJan 01 22:53
schestowitzLike the layoff thing... ODF... is one that makes them terrified every time.Jan 01 22:54
trmancoyesJan 01 22:55
trmancoenough internet for today, cyaJan 01 23:01
schestowitzI still have an hour.Jan 01 23:04

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