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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 11th, 2009


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schestowitzExcellent. It has HTMl formatting.Jan 11 00:00
ushimitsudokithe "delay win7 beta to drum up interest" seems to be working ... it got it on the front page of /.Jan 11 00:11
schestowitzSlashdot is not a sane site.Jan 11 00:17
schestowitzIt is -- for a verifiable and confirmed fact - being manipulated by Microsoft marketing firms/people/adffiliatesJan 11 00:17
schestowitzHeh. Funny typo there (accident). adffiliates :-) Freudian slip?Jan 11 00:18
ushimitsudokiwell i think we are seeing the first wave of talking points for win7: "Windows 7 isn't Vista, it's what Vista should always have been."Jan 11 00:19
ushimitsudokiThey've got to position Win7 as not-Vista, but at the same time better-VistaJan 11 00:20
ushimitsudokiit will probably mature, but i expect to see that as a common refrainJan 11 00:20
MinceRwell, as much as a m$ product matures :>Jan 11 00:21
ushimitsudokino no i mean the talking points matureJan 11 00:22
ushimitsudokinot the product :)Jan 11 00:22
MinceR:DJan 11 00:23
schestowitzIt's like Vista circa 2006 all over againJan 11 00:23
schestowitzLet me post my stuff prematurely.Jan 11 00:24
schestowitzHelp me spot typos, please :-) 11 00:24
schestowitzI'm still editing it, so tell me if you see typos and ugly stuff.Jan 11 00:24
ushimitsudokiHow much time passed between XP launch and Vista launch? How much time has passed since Vista to Win7? That right there should point to the fact that Win7 is basically Vista SP2.Jan 11 00:28
schestowitzIt isJan 11 00:29
twitterKennedy did detailed tests to see that is true.Jan 11 00:29
schestowitzAllchin said in 2006 that XP SP1 and SP2 should have been separate OSesJan 11 00:29
schestowitzHe regretted thisJan 11 00:29
schestowitzI think he told this to Mary Jo Foley, but I can't tell for sure if she only /wrote/ about it as opposed to speaking to him.Jan 11 00:30
twitterbut that would have made XP a failureJan 11 00:30
schestowitztwitter: see if you spot typos because it was posted in a rush: 11 00:30
twitterXP did not gain more than 50% M$ market share for yearsJan 11 00:30
twitterokJan 11 00:30
ushimitsudokiand MS already flirted with just straight up name change as the "Mojave" experiment or whatever - they realize a few changes and a little new paint and name change will go a long way in public perceptionJan 11 00:31
MinceRlike XP :>Jan 11 00:33
schestowitzHeh.Jan 11 00:33
schestowitzTrue.Jan 11 00:33
schestowitzThey go back to "Windows"Jan 11 00:33
schestowitzWith numbers on itJan 11 00:33
schestowitzNot like "ME" or "NT"Jan 11 00:33
ushimitsudokihow about things that are the same in Vista/Win7 and things that were promised for Vista that got cut and still won't be in Win7Jan 11 00:34
ushimitsudokimore indicators that Win7 == Vista SP2Jan 11 00:34
twitter" This bogus ‘crisis’ and the phony hype were created also owing to screenshots of Microsoft’s guerrilla marketing blog. " - I don't know what that means.  I don't get the scarcity bit.Jan 11 00:35
twitterDon't they have their usual beta program in place, where you can go sign your life away and download the POS?Jan 11 00:35
ushimitsudokiyeah, but they said "demand" caused them to delay availabliltyJan 11 00:36
ushimitsudokithat's the "false scarcity" bitJan 11 00:36
schestowitztwitter: did you see Glyn's post?Jan 11 00:37
ushimitsudokiit could be cleared up in the article on BNJan 11 00:37
ushimitsudokicleaned upJan 11 00:37
schestowitzLike gold or diamondJan 11 00:37
schestowitzGold Rush was hilarious... people wasting their lives because of perceived value of some useless material.Jan 11 00:37
ushimitsudoki"were create also owning to" -> "were created in accordance with" something like thatJan 11 00:37
twitterOK, but you might want to explain the delay bit for people like me, who don't know about the betaJan 11 00:38
twitteror the delayJan 11 00:38
schestowitzDone.Jan 11 00:38
schestowitzDoes the first ref not say this?Jan 11 00:38
ushimitsudoki"(technically (Windows 6.1)"Jan 11 00:39
schestowitzI guess it's all malstructured. I did it too quickly.Jan 11 00:39
ushimitsudokicome on! match your braces up you non-coderJan 11 00:39
twitterthe first ref does not mention thisJan 11 00:39
schestowitzushimitsudoki: I see it in HTML with tag cluttersJan 11 00:40
schestowitz*clutterJan 11 00:40
ushimitsudoki:)Jan 11 00:40
schestowitz(technically Windows 6.1)Jan 11 00:40
schestowitzIt's better when I edit this in KateJan 11 00:41
schestowitzIt matches brackets, being a dev editorJan 11 00:41
twitterIt might be better to put the main story stuff up in the first paragraph.  The name change Mojave trick and the fake scarcity as part of a floundering hype wave.Jan 11 00:42
twitterThere's no evidence outside the Wintel press people want this turd is there?Jan 11 00:42
twitterbesides the jaw on the floor, "I can't believe they suck so bad" kind of wantJan 11 00:43
schestowitzHeh. Well, I don't want to spend too much time on this.Jan 11 00:43
schestowitzWe'll have another chance.Jan 11 00:43
schestowitzI'll go through some V7 stuff tomorrow.Jan 11 00:44
ushimitsudokiwell i've got to think there's some anxiety in businesses. many windows-based users probably nervously planned on skipping *1* version of windows. I don't think they will be so secure about skipping *2* versionsJan 11 00:44
twitterMy wife saw a Mojave advertisement and was floored.  First off, she thought it was pathetic as an add.  Second, she could not believe M$ could not do any better.Jan 11 00:44
ushimitsudokithat's an interesting angle hereJan 11 00:44
schestowitzCDC director Gerberding resigns at Obama’s request < >Jan 11 00:44
twitterIt's the killer angle.Jan 11 00:44
ushimitsudokibecause of that, I think Win7 will be much more of a "forced upgrade" than Vista wasJan 11 00:45
twitterThe fact of the matter is that M$ is broken.  They took six years to foist Vista on the world, it's not going to get better as their cash runs out.Jan 11 00:45
twitterThey can't force it.  Trying put their channel partners out of business.Jan 11 00:46
schestowitzThey can'tJan 11 00:46
schestowitzNo reason to.Jan 11 00:46
schestowitzFor businesses that isJan 11 00:46
ushimitsudokithere is that - but i would say the "brains" running out is more important. There was a point once where the "smart kids" wanted to work for MS - I don't think it has that prestige anymoreJan 11 00:46
twitterComUSA, Circuit City and now Best Buy ...Jan 11 00:46
schestowitzThe depression will be killing them too because h/w upgrades are out of the question to many.Jan 11 00:46
twitterThey are, in part, responsible for the depression.Jan 11 00:47
schestowitzVista 7 is typically tested on high-end machines, by design.Jan 11 00:47
twitterThey promise it will work on Netbooks, ha ha.Jan 11 00:47
schestowitzMicrosoft will probably miss expectations on the 22ndJan 11 00:47
schestowitzSo the layoffs might be announced just before or around the same time.Jan 11 00:47
ushimitsudokiThey are going to try hard to get it on notebooks - linux is doing too well in that area to leave it aloneJan 11 00:47
schestowitztwitter: no, they won'tJan 11 00:48
schestowitzThey'll have a SEPARATE edition for sub-notebooksJan 11 00:48
ushimitsudokipeople get used to linux on their little machines, they just might give it a try on the big oneJan 11 00:48
schestowitzThat will be something different.Jan 11 00:48
schestowitzFisherPrice 7Jan 11 00:48
schestowitzThat's not the main pointJan 11 00:48
twitterIf that separate edition has DRM, it's doomed.Jan 11 00:48
MinceRis that like FisherPrice OS X? :>Jan 11 00:48
schestowitzMicrosoft can sell Win for sub-notebooks, BUTJan 11 00:48
schestowitzIt makes almost no money on itJan 11 00:49
schestowitzAt $5 apiece it's just a miserable attempt to stay afloatJan 11 00:49
schestowitzNotebooks like these hardly run something bloated like MSO07Jan 11 00:49
schestowitzOr 09Jan 11 00:49
ushimitsudokiI bet Apple knows exactly how useful iPod/iPhone are for getting new mac users. I bet it's not a real high number, but every little bit counts ... same thing for Linux/netbooksJan 11 00:49
schestowitz:-) They'll try to push them to the Web-based junk (Silver Lie)Jan 11 00:49
schestowitzMinceR: Apple's is 10 (X), not 7Jan 11 00:50
MinceR:)Jan 11 00:50
MinceRit's still a toyJan 11 00:50
schestowitzAt the age of 10 people can only use one buttonJan 11 00:50
MinceRi've watched Pirates of the Silicon ValleyJan 11 00:50
schestowitzSlackware 12 gives config files.Jan 11 00:50
MinceRthe nasty things they've done have been scaled down massively, but it was still interesting to watchJan 11 00:50
twittermy 7 year old is comfortable with three buttons and a scroll. :-DJan 11 00:51
MinceRyour 7 year old has already surpassed the mental capacity of an average apple userJan 11 00:51
schestowitzWHy not just a wheel?Jan 11 00:51
schestowitzA la Onion parodyJan 11 00:51
MinceR(not that it's a grand achievement)Jan 11 00:51
MinceRthe wheel might be too advanced for usersJan 11 00:51
MinceRi propose simplifying the interfaceJan 11 00:51
schestowitzStraw?>Jan 11 00:52
MinceRi was thinking of a Computer(tm) without any input devicesJan 11 00:52
MinceRor portsJan 11 00:52
twitterAnother issue with the article is that Vista actually go worse when it was released.  They took out XP drivers on purpose and did a few other things to break it.Jan 11 00:52
MinceRor output devicesJan 11 00:52
schestowitzThink Different(C)Jan 11 00:52
MinceRor anything at allJan 11 00:52
MinceRindeedJan 11 00:52
twitterThe Beta test was actually better than the released OS.Jan 11 00:52
schestowitzMany people thought differentlyJan 11 00:52
twitterThat can be the case here too.Jan 11 00:52
MinceRjust a slab of shiny white plastic with an Apple logo engraved into itJan 11 00:52
schestowitzEven Stalin.Jan 11 00:52
MinceRapple is more like Don't Think(tm).Jan 11 00:53
twitteroh well, those are my observations.Jan 11 00:53
twittertypo ?  sympathisers -> sympathizersJan 11 00:54
MinceRi think the former is UK spelling and the latter is US.Jan 11 00:55
twitter"via de WGA scheme." sicJan 11 00:56
schestowitztwitter: where?Jan 11 00:56
schestowitzIn the citation?Jan 11 00:57
twitterFirst blockquote, last bullet pointJan 11 00:57
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schestowitzOh, but it's a quoteJan 11 00:57
twitteryeah, sicJan 11 00:57
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twitterfun stuff.Jan 11 00:58
schestowitzPeople like myself but esp. others are pissed off when American editors change our writings to AmericaniZed Engrish [sic]Jan 11 00:58
schestowitzLike.. you know... they force wrong spellings upon others, because they can.. and new de facto standards are set this wayJan 11 00:58
schestowitzkentma knows the feelingJan 11 00:59
schestowitzSo does [H]omer Jan 11 00:59
twitterSorry, that's what my dictionary does and I don't know any better.  Notice that I asked instead of told.Jan 11 00:59
schestowitzYes, I know :-)Jan 11 01:00
schestowitzI'm laughing, not resenting.Jan 11 01:00
twitterWell, I'm off to dinner. bblJan 11 01:01
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MinceRgnJan 11 01:43
schestowitzInteresting comment: Instead of MS making its O/S thin they try to make OEMs make their machines fat (for Vista/7)Jan 11 01:44
schestowitzSome OEMs and Intel must love it... price-fixing again. Can't have anything cheapJan 11 01:45
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schestowitzDigital Tipping Point misfit: 11 03:01
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jeremy__hello allJan 11 03:18
jeremy__FUD from the NYTimes: 11 03:19
*jeremy__ is now known as EruaranJan 11 03:19
schestowitzHeyJan 11 03:20
schestowitzASHLEE VANCEJan 11 03:21
schestowitzFrom the RegJan 11 03:21
schestowitzI saw this earlierJan 11 03:21
schestowitzHe loves trolling every now and then, but all in all, he's not too malicious.Jan 11 03:21
schestowitzI see... well, it's his writing style all right :-)Jan 11 03:23
schestowitzIt's 3:23 AM here. Catch you in the morningJan 11 03:23
Eruaranok cyaJan 11 03:23
twitter"hapless pests" "people capable of overthrowing Windows" "controversial" "software mercenaries [unflattering description]"  "undermine Microsoft's Windows [$17 billion in sales]"Jan 11 03:37
twitterwhat an ass.Jan 11 03:37
twitterWhy not describe them as people offering their time and energy to provide you software others demand hundreds of dollars and strict obedience to obnoxious rules to have?Jan 11 03:38
EruaranAnd his description of updates on Linux is simply false.Jan 11 03:39
EruaranIt a description that fits Windows.Jan 11 03:39
twitterThe fight is to deliver software freedom.  M$ will die as a consequence if they don't join the free software game, and they have been convicted of various crimes the we should demand restitution for.Jan 11 03:40
twitter"Try as they might, however,  Linux zealots have failed in their quest to make Linux mainstream on desktop and notebook computers. The often quirky software remains in the realm of geeks, not grandmothers."  Zealots, like my wife and 7 year old daughter?Jan 11 03:44
twitterHow twisted the cult of Micro$oftolgy is to imagine there can only be one OS on desktops and that it must be one as crass and failure prone as Windows.Jan 11 03:45
EruaranIts pretty badJan 11 03:48
EruaranI had a pretty bad experience recently on Introversions forums.Jan 11 03:48
EruaranI wont be going back there again.Jan 11 03:48
EruaranLast year I was interested in Introversions Multiwinia game and finding out when it will be available for GNU/Linux (the Linux version is in the works).Jan 11 03:49
EruaranI made two postsJan 11 03:49
EruaranI have endured nothing but abuse and bullying since.Jan 11 03:50
twitterHow long can people bully and abuse someone who only posted twice?Jan 11 03:51
twitterWhat do they do, send you hate mail?Jan 11 03:51
EruaranOn the first thread I originally posted on I decided I may have been a little harsh and apologized, but the abuse continued... and all I did was defend myself and stand my ground on this point: I'll buy Multiwinia when it's available for LinuxJan 11 03:52
EruaranThe second thread was one I startedJan 11 03:52
EruaranI posted asking if anyone has an ETA and stuff and I put a little poll up which was clearly aimed at Linux users. The poll question was, "I'll buy Multiwinia for GNU/Linux" with the options being "Yes", "No", or "I bought DEFCON for Linux !"...Jan 11 03:54
twitterI can believe that.  The M$ people are insane.  Even otherwise normal and educated people can pride themselves on using the crap and abusing those who don't worship Bill Gates.Jan 11 03:54
EruaranSo it wasn't nasty, it was just a poll I put up because I was interested in seeing how much enthusiasm there might be from Linux users for buying Multiwinia (ie. Supporting an Indy game company making games available for linux)Jan 11 03:55
EruaranThe very first response I got was abusive and stupidJan 11 03:55
twitterOh well.  They offered the game and the trolls lost.Jan 11 03:56
EruaranMy experience there has been so negative that I don't think I even want to play the game now... I get the feeling If I play online I'll be facing the same idiots... I'm really put off buy itJan 11 03:57
EruaranIts quite bizarre reallyJan 11 03:57
EruaranI felt like asking, "Am I a Linux user on a game forum or a Jew in Gaza ?"Jan 11 03:58
twitterIf you already own the game, play it.  No one will know who you are.Jan 11 04:01
EruaranI might still get it, it looks goodJan 11 04:01
twitterI don't know your particular game, but most online gaming communities are nasty on purpose.Jan 11 04:02
twitterSome are really like that.  Others just want to make people lose it so they can kill them.Jan 11 04:02
EruaranI'm happy to put my money where my mouth is when it comes to supporting indy game makers like Introversion.Jan 11 04:02
twitterI'm not a big non free software fan.Jan 11 04:03
EruaranMe neither, but I do like Introversions gamesJan 11 04:03
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twitterMy wife and I got a Wii for Christmas.  It's fun but there are all sorts of little improvements my wife thinks of that she thinks people would have made if it was free software.Jan 11 04:04
twitterFirst on the list is "toddler turns" that have a simplified play.Jan 11 04:05
twitterOthers include silly things like being able to make Miis the computer will use against youJan 11 04:05
twitterA more serious issue is data privacy and security.  The thing has a wireless network connection.  Can I trust it on my lan?Jan 11 04:06
twitterGNU/Linux tainted with non free software is also less than trustworthy and is generally a pain in the ass.Jan 11 04:09
twitterI'd never use a gaming rig for important work, email or as a firewall.Jan 11 04:09
twitterI'd have to make a separate box or partition on an unimportant box.Jan 11 04:10
EruaranI use a separate partitionJan 11 04:11
twitterIn general, the less free a system is the more it resembles Windows for trust, security and fragility.  Free software is much easier to set up and upgrade, though there is often a performance penalty.Jan 11 04:12
twitterIt will be nice when ATI's cards have free software drivers that do 3D accel.Jan 11 04:12
EruaranyesJan 11 04:13
Eruaranthey've realeased the specs for devsJan 11 04:13
twitterit's on the way.Jan 11 04:13
twittergood nightJan 11 04:13
EruaranniteJan 11 04:13
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Omar871Hi allJan 11 07:13
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schestowitz"I am talking on another list about the fact that Microsoft Windows Vista sales are lagging behind the general sales of the PC market.  In other words, there are either lots of boxes being sold to install pirated copies of Microsoft Windows, or people are installing Linux on those machines."Jan 11 09:32
schestowitzCan anyone help find a quote on this? Someone is looking for quote "Microsoft sales lagging PC market"Jan 11 09:32
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ushimitsudokimaybe: ?Jan 11 09:37
ushimitsudokimaybe: ?Jan 11 09:39
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schestowitzThankls!Jan 11 09:51
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Omar87Hello all.Jan 11 10:18
trmancohi Omar87Jan 11 10:19
schestowitzHeyJan 11 10:20
Omar87trmanco: Hey.Jan 11 10:20
tessierThe gang's all hereJan 11 10:24
tessierLet the record show that git and mercurial are very cool tools.Jan 11 10:24
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MinceRr4wrJan 11 10:47
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PetoKraushmmJan 11 10:59
PetoKraus -> is that true?Jan 11 10:59
trmanco 11 11:02
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schestowitzWow!Jan 11 11:28
schestowitzI found proof from Microsoft that Mono is a trapJan 11 11:29
schestowitzIt's in antitrust docsJan 11 11:29
ushimitsudokidoc#?Jan 11 11:29
schestowitz Slide 15Jan 11 11:30
ushimitsudokiyes that is a good one - i have it on my quotes page with a short thought: "{Ah yup, the entire mono gambit already foreseen and prepared for - and that’s granting the “mono gambit” is actually trying to compete with Microsoft, and not just straight-up compete for Microsoft.}"Jan 11 11:33
schestowitzIn the same memo?Jan 11 11:33
ushimitsudokino no that is my commentJan 11 11:33
ushimitsudokion that memoJan 11 11:33
schestowitzYes, I figuedJan 11 11:33
schestowitzWhen reading it the second timeJan 11 11:33
schestowitzI'll also do a screenshot of the slideJan 11 11:34
schestowitzAnd post it apartJan 11 11:34
schestowitzIt's about EDGI mostly.Jan 11 11:34
ushimitsudoki if you want to see my thoughts on that particular documentJan 11 11:34
schestowitzI still have the page on the reading listJan 11 11:34
schestowitzBut I have dozens of other things to process firstJan 11 11:34
ushimitsudokicheck into that document because it goes on to talk about how far they should license parts of .netJan 11 11:35
ushimitsudokiand how they will try to control clone through media formatsJan 11 11:35
ushimitsudokiit's a nice indicator that MS is well aware of how to use mono/.net against linux by standardizing the base, and patenting all the "good parts"Jan 11 11:36
tessier 11 11:36
tessierChina engages in astro-turfing just like MicrosoftJan 11 11:36
tessierHow interesting.Jan 11 11:36
schestowitzushimitsudoki: thanks.Jan 11 11:47
ushimitsudokinpJan 11 11:47
schestowitzYes, China does thatJan 11 11:47
schestowitzI saw reports last week. Both are suppressive entities.Jan 11 11:47
schestowitzMicrosoft also hires Turfs from China, IIRCJan 11 11:47
schestowitz"More Gnome schenanigans [...] Sorry to use this address (didn't immediately see the boycottnovell email address on the site), but wanted to make sure this got on your radar: Open source Mono framework brings C# to iPhone and Wii" 11 13:17
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ushimitsudokiYeah, I noticed that dude Ryan Paul isn't very interested in talking about any possible problems with Novell/mono/etc. I don't know if I'd say he's *pro-* so much as he just doesn't seem interested in doing much beyond repeating a press release/blogJan 11 13:46
schestowitzA memo from inside Microsoft shows the company's plan to use patents against .NET clones: 11 13:49
schestowitzCan you check this?Jan 11 13:49
schestowitzushimitsudoki: I heard the same re: RyanJan 11 13:50
ushimitsudokiyeah at first i was suspicious of him ('shill'), but now I don't think so - I think he just doesn't care and just repeats whatever news finds its way into his inboxJan 11 13:51
schestowitzNo, he's okJan 11 13:53
schestowitzHe talked about me with LarabelJan 11 13:53
schestowitzHe likes suseJan 11 13:53
ushimitsudokiHere's another quote you might want to use in that article. I don't know its up to you; "As many of you may know, we’ve actually kind of broadened the product portfolio of Visual Studio, targeting all the way from the low end with students and hobbyists, kind of competitive in that Linux space, making sure that every developer has a copy of .NET and is trained in writing .NET solutions. We introduced the low-end veJan 11 13:54
ushimitsudoki-Eric Rudder, Senior VP, Technical Strategy : 11 13:55
ushimitsudokiI'd cut out the 2 middle bullet points in the original quote too, since they aren't about .NET and so distract from the point of the post - just a suggestionJan 11 13:56
ushimitsudokiThere's also this quote: "By putting CLI into ECMA, we are inviting x-plat implementations. With Rotor we are even doing some work on Linux and Solaris. For enterprise customers/partners, wanting to build enterprise apps, all this is meaningless as there is no mechanism to provide transaction (and other core services) support on these non-Windows implementations."Jan 11 13:57
ushimitsudoki- Graham Clark (GM of .NET business development) 11 13:57
ushimitsudokiBut i'm not sure if you want to add all that into one post or notJan 11 13:58
ushimitsudokiThe point is it is clear MS is well aware of how to position .NET to make it *seem* attractive, but at the same time be worthless (or worth much less) without patented and *non* standardized, non-royalty free bitsJan 11 13:58
schestowitzThese are excellent. I'll post them separately.Jan 11 14:00
ushimitsudokiNow, someone might want to argue that Novell tricked Microsoft and got more than Microsoft hoped ... I don't think so, but that's a possible argument ... but no one should be able to honestly argue that Microsoft intends to position .NET as some sort of Open Source cross-platform framework. (Which is what I think Miguel and crew likes to imply, if not outright state)Jan 11 14:00
ushimitsudokiThey like to imply that mono == Open Source .NET and moonlight == Open Source Silverlight, and often strongly imply that these are "official" products from Microsoft or what have you. This is clearly not true. It's much more along the lines of "the first level is free shareware, but the whole game costs money" model that we used to see.Jan 11 14:02
ushimitsudokiMicrosoft is playing a balancing game: they have to give up some IP to make the platform a possibility, but not enough to render Windows or other Microsoft-specific tech pointless. There is a great example of this on Mary Jo's site, showing a slide from Sam RamjiJan 11 14:03
ushimitsudokiHe has like 4 Open Source projects listed: it's stuff like "vim" "Eclipse" and "PHP" ... not taking anything away from those projects ... but come on. that's weak sauce to put up as an example of your new "friendliness" to Open SourceJan 11 14:04
ushimitsudokibahJan 11 14:04
ushimitsudokinow you got me fired up. I have to watch some MST3K and calm down :)Jan 11 14:04
schestowitzHehe.Jan 11 14:05
schestowitzI'm writing something based on a reader's request where he'll be attributed.Jan 11 14:06
schestowitzHe raises good points about Wintel press.Jan 11 14:06
ushimitsudokiHere's that slide: 11 14:10
ushimitsudoki"I asked Ramji if he could explain Microsoft’s open-source strategy to me in a nutshell (or at least in a single PowerPoint slide). Here’s what he showed me:"Jan 11 14:10
schestowitzHe's a henchman, ain't he?Jan 11 14:18
ushimitsudokiMainly funny to be that he is portrayed as some respected OSS "leading light" or somethingJan 11 14:20
ushimitsudoki*mainly funny to meJan 11 14:20
ushimitsudokioh wait they are "Open Source Heroes" right? I forgot my MS-speak terminology there for a secondJan 11 14:22
schestowitzThat's an adJan 11 14:24
schestowitzHeroesJan 11 14:24
schestowitzThey try to make people like us *sick* of "Open Source"Jan 11 14:24
ushimitsudokiIf they are the "Open Source Heroes", who are the "Open Source Villains"? We already know Microsoft thinks they are the "Good Guys" ...Jan 11 14:25
schestowitzIf they wanted to associated open source with repulsion, they did it for me. I just say Free software now, and I'm not alone. I talked to Moody about it.. he's the same nowJan 11 14:25
ushimitsudokiyeah there is a real terminology problem ... microsoft is working hard to undermine the meaning of "Open Source" ... they include "Shared Source" right there on their "Open Source" page. That's what was so ironic about that one Microsoft guy saying there was a danger of the meaning of "Open Source" being diluted ... yeah there is ... and it's YOUR company doing the "diluting"!Jan 11 14:28
schestowitzRamjisoft said this, right?Jan 11 14:33
schestowitzIn SD Times, IIRCJan 11 14:33
ushimitsudokiYeah I think so .. i don't have it in front of me, but that sounds rightJan 11 14:33
ushimitsudokiHow hypocritical is thatJan 11 14:34
ushimitsudokiI have much less respect for the so-called "OSS advocates" at Microsoft, than the straight-up OSS-haters like BallmerJan 11 14:34
ushimitsudokiat least Ballmer is straight up about hating OSS and LinuxJan 11 14:34
ushimitsudokimouthpieces like Ramji add an additional layer of lies and deceit on top of Ballmer's lies and deceitJan 11 14:35
ushimitsudokiit's like a double cheeseburger of bullshitJan 11 14:35
schestowitzThey get paid for it.Jan 11 14:35
schestowitzMac fans take offense (new comment): 11 14:38
schestowitzit's like the Inquirer saysJan 11 14:38
schestowitzWrite something negative about Apple and see hoards of spinners coming.Jan 11 14:38
ushimitsudokibah personal attacks right out of the gate. not worth bothering withJan 11 14:40
schestowitzI know, I know..Jan 11 14:41
ushimitsudokithat guy mok might have a point, though ... a least he is civil about thingsJan 11 14:41
ushimitsudokiwhat cite is he talking about?Jan 11 14:42
ushimitsudokiah nevermind i see the linkJan 11 14:44
ushimitsudokiI don't agree with mok .. I don't think that ODF support in the free non-featured editor is equivalent to ODF support in the premier/featured suiteJan 11 14:45
ushimitsudokiIt doesn't undermine the point made in the blog entry ... it might need a little more clarification or discussion, but it doesn't undo the main thrust of the articleJan 11 14:46
schestowitzYes, and it's belatedJan 11 14:46
schestowitzReader asks, "What happened to the Hungarian raid?" Is anyone aware of what came out of it?Jan 11 14:51
ushimitsudokiNothing came out of it: 11 14:52
schestowitzThanks. Jan 11 14:55
*ushimitsudoki has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jan 11 15:03
*ushimitsudoki ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 15:04
*ushimitsudoki has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jan 11 15:06
schestowitzThe press attacks only Microsoft's big competitors, accusing them of sins Microsoft commits: 11 15:07
*ushimitsudoki ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 15:10
schestowitzWow, the Alex troll from itwire is going ballistic for 7apourwareJan 11 15:26
schestowitzIt's like someone is rallying journos and bloggers to "freeze the market"(tm)Jan 11 15:26
schestowitzAfter Bobby Kennedy (There Was Barack Obama) < >Jan 11 15:28
*PeterKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 15:59
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jan 11 16:00
*flipouk ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 16:25
ushimitsudokiwow there is a lot of bs in the comments on 11 16:47
schestowitzI am doing the Intel ones ATMJan 11 16:55
schestowitzTwo people talked about it.Jan 11 16:55
schestowitzushimitsudoki: when they squeal, then it means we are on to something.Jan 11 16:56
ushimitsudokiI can't believe that dude Dan is trying to say about that presentation: "Actually, it doesn’t even refer to the framework that it’d patent"Jan 11 16:56
ushimitsudokithat is just tortuous to the point of dishonestyJan 11 16:56
schestowitzReply to him.Jan 11 16:57
ushimitsudokithat's putting aside all the distraction footwork of trying to bring Wine and other junk in thereJan 11 16:57
schestowitzI'm too busy to bother because of the Intel BS :-)Jan 11 16:57
schestowitzAnd they go on endlessly :-)Jan 11 16:57
ushimitsudokii doubt it's worth it, but i just mightJan 11 16:57
schestowitzThey always must have the last wordJan 11 16:57
schestowitzEven if it takes 200 comments.Jan 11 16:57
ushimitsudokiyeah, actually i think that's why I'm not going to bother ... he's already getting plenty of feeding action thereJan 11 16:58
ushimitsudokiand reading that argument i can't think he is coming from a honest placeJan 11 16:58
schestowitzHe won't say who he's withJan 11 16:59
schestowitzIf you ask, then he'll say it doesn't matter.Jan 11 16:59
*PeterKraus is now known as PetoKrausJan 11 17:42
schestowitzbblJan 11 17:52
Omar87schestowitz: I've recently posted a question on Fluther that says: "Do you agree with me that all publishers and authors should consider using Creative Commons instead of Copy Rights?"Jan 11 18:02
Omar87One member answered: " Creative Commons extends copyright. And no, I don’t agree, of course. Creative Commons should not only bring freedom to consumers, it should also provide freedom to authors. There’s a reason there are multiple CC licenses – in some cases, it’s just inappropriate.  I do think many more authors should consider CC, and it’d be very nice of them to license their work using a CC license.              "Jan 11 18:03
Omar87What do you think of what he said?Jan 11 18:04
*kentma has quit ("Leaving.")Jan 11 18:11
ushimitsudokiAuthors have the right to choose how to license their work. The problem is the obscene extension of copyrights.Jan 11 18:29
ushimitsudokiThere's nothing wrong with choosing non-CC licenses -- although I would certainly encourage authors to consider a CC license. But the larger issue is beyond any one author - and lies with the (mainly) corporate driven extension of copyrights ... what was once 14 years is now life+70 years. That is hard to justify considering the original purpose behind copyrightsJan 11 18:31
*ushimitsudoki1 ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 18:33
*ushimitsudoki1 ( has left #boycottnovellJan 11 18:33
*ushimitsudoki1 ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 18:33
PetoKrauswell, i'm using CC for all my artistic stuffJan 11 18:34
PetoKrausi tend to license code under GPLJan 11 18:34
ushimitsudoki1My code is GPLv3Jan 11 18:35
ushimitsudoki1My band's music is normal copyright. I don't have the influence to convince them and the record label on something like CC. It would be nice, but a pointless battle.Jan 11 18:36
PetoKrausone questionJan 11 18:36
PetoKrausif something is hosted on Slovak server but using data copyrighted in US, which laws do apply?Jan 11 18:36
PetoKrausSlovak or US?Jan 11 18:36
PetoKrausi know they can't DMCA it, since it's not in USJan 11 18:37
ushimitsudoki1I would guess Slovak. Isn't that how the pirate bay has stayed up, because they don't technically violate swedish law, even though the US has come after them?Jan 11 18:37
ushimitsudoki1that's just a wild ass guess thoughJan 11 18:37
PetoKrausyeah, i think soJan 11 18:37
PetoKrausit's because in Slovakia the regulations for reuse of works of art is different than in USJan 11 18:38
PetoKrausafaik, reuse of music in videos for personal use is allowed...Jan 11 18:38
PetoKrausin slovakia.Jan 11 18:38
*ushimitsudoki has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))Jan 11 18:41
trmanco 11 18:53
trmancoidiotsJan 11 18:53
Omar87trmanco: I didn't get a word of what the site says, but from the red X on tux, I think it's some bunch of stupid goons attacking Linux, right?Jan 11 18:59
trmancoyesJan 11 19:00
Omar87I wonder how much did Balmer pay them to do this. ;-)Jan 11 19:01
trmancothere is a lie right on the first paragraph, stating that Linux has only 2% of market share, but he doesn't specify what kind marketshare, and he forgot to mention the biased stats that are all out thereJan 11 19:01
Omar87trmanco: What language is this?Jan 11 19:02
*[H]omer_ (n=[H] has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 19:02
Omar87Spanish?Jan 11 19:02
trmancoPortuguese BrazilianJan 11 19:02
*[H]omer has quit (Nick collision from services.)Jan 11 19:03
*[H]omer_ is now known as [H]omerJan 11 19:03
*[H]omer is now known as Guest67673Jan 11 19:03
*Guest67673 is now known as [H]omerJan 11 19:04
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerJan 11 19:04
trmancoowe wellJan 11 19:05
trmancoI'll just wait until his Toy 's us OS and server crashes for me to laughJan 11 19:05
*seller_liar (i=c944c401@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 19:24
seller_liarCJ collier is a very old guyJan 11 19:24
seller_liarmainsoft helps novell tooJan 11 19:24
seller_liar 11 19:24
PetoKraus[H]omer: nice nickspamJan 11 19:28
trmancoseller_liar, 11 19:35
seller_liartrmanco: Oh ,this is crazyJan 11 19:36
seller_liartrmanco: Who is the site owner?Jan 11 19:36
trmancodon't knowJan 11 19:36
trmancohis email is hosted on linux servers thoughJan 11 19:36
trmancoit is a yahoo emailJan 11 19:36
seller_liartrmanco: Oh  , i have some videos of authorJan 11 19:38
seller_liartrmanco: Octavier is a well known trollJan 11 19:38
trmancoLOLJan 11 19:38
trmancofrom where?Jan 11 19:39
trmancoguia do ahrdware?Jan 11 19:39
seller_liartrmanco: wait...Jan 11 19:39
trmancohe ahs some link at the bottomJan 11 19:39
trmancolinks*Jan 11 19:39
trmancohas*Jan 11 19:40
seller_liar 11 19:41
trmancoseller_liar, that doesn't workJan 11 19:45
seller_liartrmanco: waitJan 11 19:45
trmancohmm, so this is the same dudeJan 11 19:45
seller_liar 11 19:45
trmancodoes he know tha his videos are on a Linux sever?Jan 11 19:45
trmancowowJan 11 19:46
trmancohe knows how to login as rootJan 11 19:47
trmanco...Jan 11 19:47
seller_liartrmanco:I knowJan 11 19:48
seller_liartrmanco: The only way is promote GNU/LinuxJan 11 19:48
trmancoI didn't know that those peanut sized brain troll knew how to login as root a a *nix based systemJan 11 19:49
trmancothat doesn'r work anymore with -preserve-rootJan 11 19:49
trmancocoreutils has been updatedJan 11 19:49
seller_liartrmanco: Octaiver lost all the time trolling gnu linuxJan 11 19:50
seller_liartrmanco: Ignore himJan 11 19:50
trmancooh reallyJan 11 19:50
trmancodid he at least got paid?Jan 11 19:50
trmancoget*Jan 11 19:51
trmancomy hads are freezing, sorry for the typosJan 11 19:51
trmancohands*Jan 11 19:51
seller_liartrmanco: no problemJan 11 19:52
seller_liartrmanco: Probably he 's not paid , but frequent sites like meiobitJan 11 19:53
*[H]omer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jan 11 19:54
trmancohmm, he is like this guy we have in portugal tooJan 11 19:54
schestowitzhey. i' backJan 11 19:56
seller_liarschestowitz: hello royJan 11 19:56
seller_liarschestowitz: Cj probably is a old guyJan 11 19:56
schestowitzI'm catching upJan 11 19:56
seller_liar 11 19:56
seller_liarschestowitz: mainsoft probably helps novellJan 11 19:56
schestowitzMore on Hungary:Jan 11 20:03
schestowitzcmp. also 29 AugJan 11 20:03
schestowitz 11 20:03
schestowitzEdri:Jan 11 20:03
schestowitz 11 20:03
schestowitzEgg incidentJan 11 20:03
schestowitz 11 20:03
schestowitzand some commentsJan 11 20:03
schestowitz 11 20:03
schestowitzand Brad Smith!Jan 11 20:03
schestowitz 11 20:03
schestowitzOmar87: that remark on CC is absurd.Jan 11 20:04
schestowitzseller_liar: -- what mention Collier?Jan 11 20:12
schestowitzHe was here some times before... related to Microsoft indirectly (contractJan 11 20:12
seller_liarschestowitz: look at contributors listJan 11 20:15
schestowitzI know.Jan 11 20:18
schestowitzNot news to me ;-)Jan 11 20:18
schestowitzHe smeared BNJan 11 20:18
schestowitzHow did you find out about him and why? I know too little about his personal role in Mono. Is he a coders?Jan 11 20:19
schestowitzcoderJan 11 20:19
seller_liarschestowitz: I don t know , I was looking for some texts and stupid novuel e icaza blogJan 11 20:24
schestowitzHe could be bridge/communicator because of ties with MS (cj that is, Noguel too)Jan 11 20:30
*seller_liar has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Jan 11 20:53
schestowitzThe guy who quit Microsoft shortly after having his company sold will do an inauguration of sorts... 11 20:55
schestowitzI have some antitrust docs that I need to process and publish. They show Gartner and IDC negotiating with Microsoft what they'll produce. There are prior examples of this that I published. CIOs will hopefully become more open minded because they are being sold mindshare.Jan 11 21:05
schestowitzTomorrow I'll do Intel (BillG called for a "Jihad" against Linux)Jan 11 21:05
schestowitz I'm not vengeful; I'm a realist. there is some much good stuff in Comes.Jan 11 21:06
*[H]omer (n=[H] has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 21:06
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerJan 11 21:06
schestowitz Thom Holwerda is feeding/boosting Mono againJan 11 21:08
schestowitzWhy WiFi in Africa? < >Jan 11 21:28
schestowitz 11 21:49
schestowitz 11 21:50
schestowitzSeek open source, read about... music bands :-S 11 21:59
schestowitzHans Reiser Attacked by Fellow Prisoners < >Jan 11 22:17
schestowitz 11 22:17
schestowitz" Cue a ton of Linux fanboys scrolling down to the comments box to rant shit about how “we believe in FREEDOM” and “SCREW YOUR IGNORANCE” and “you’re just bitter than you couldn’t properly install Ubuntu on your system” before even reading this entry." 11 22:28
schestowitzWhoa. YouTube videos suddenly have ads like subtitles. When did *this* start?Jan 11 22:42
MinceRthe last time google decided to not be evilJan 11 22:44
schestowitzI think it began hours agoJan 11 22:45
schestowitzNew year's resolutionJan 11 22:45
schestowitzNuthin' 'bout it in the news... well, not in Google's 'news'... 11 22:47
schestowitzReader says: "We need to set up a Wiki with all the comes docs cross referenced. See what you can come up with, but I need help, how goes the call for volunteers ?" Should we make a wiki? One person already posts some in COLA. I make copies of all those Comes posts there for publishing in BN.Jan 11 22:59
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*ushimitsudoki ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 11 22:59
*DarkUranium has quit ("Leaving")Jan 11 23:02
schestowitzAnother Microtuf with anti-Linux pro-vapourware chorus: Why Windows 7 will crush Linux < > It's like they all read from the same FUD book... all tied to Microsoft, too.Jan 11 23:04
schestowitzNOVL: Windows 7 as 'Linux killer'? How times have changed! < >Jan 11 23:05
schestowitzHere's why we got flak from Mac fans. We made FP of this Mac shrine and hundreds of people came from thee: 11 23:07
schestowitzYou'll hardly see Microsoft mentioning the "N" word these days (Nintendo, not Novell)... (Nintendo leads UK gaming growth)Jan 11 23:09
twitterFUD book, they call it talking points.Jan 11 23:10
schestowitzI know.Jan 11 23:13
schestowitzThey even write "talking points" under "fear uncertainty and doubt" in their internal memoJan 11 23:13
schestowitzThe slogan's take-away: Linux will soon die (be afraid) and Vista7 is already wonderful. it's a form of PR (also known as brainwash)Jan 11 23:14
twitterIs anyone listening?Jan 11 23:15
MinceRi know an extremely zealous microsoft fanboyJan 11 23:15
MinceRi'm sure he believes that from the first letter to the lastJan 11 23:15
twitterI know some people who believe they saw a UFO on top of their house.Jan 11 23:17
schestowitzJoseph Tartakoff didn't ask Bach my question (which he accepted as a comment) about inside trading, which is fraud < >Jan 11 23:17
schestowitzNo new Xbox Console in Microsoft’s future < >Jan 11 23:17
schestowitzFor the log: Microsoft Won't Commit to '09 Launch for Windows 7 < > Can you spell V A P O R?Jan 11 23:18
MinceRm$ not wanting to release a product that isn't ready yet?Jan 11 23:18
MinceRit must be cold in hell nowadaysJan 11 23:18
twitterWindows has never been ready.Jan 11 23:19
twitterWindows 7 won't be either.Jan 11 23:19
MinceRexactlyJan 11 23:19
schestowitzIt'll be ready...Jan 11 23:20
schestowitzFor manufacturing (RTM)Jan 11 23:20
schestowitzThey can't yet manufacture consumer consent. Drek on a platter...Jan 11 23:26
schestowitz*LOL* (As Seen at CES: Microsoft Surface Fail)Jan 11 23:26
schestowitzMicrosoft shows nothing new at CES < >. It's true. It's a slow year in the news... nobody launches new products... nothing major anyway.Jan 11 23:28
schestowitzAgreement between Microsoft and the Greek government < >Jan 11 23:31
schestowitzChina shuts down 50 more porn Web sites in sweep < >Jan 11 23:35
schestowitz  "In addition to Macworld and OWC, which sponsored two teams, this year’s participants included returning champions Microsoft, which also sponsored two teams, Freeverse Software, Smith Micro and Roxio"  This is weird... how can they 'donate' when Microsoft still owes a billion or so to CA schools (antitrust)?Jan 11 23:38
schestowitz 11 23:38
schestowitz"That is the feeling we get from Michael Arrington’s latest post on the never-ending drama that is Microhoo. Arrington writes at TechCrunch that a group of Silicon Valley executives and bankers are putting together a Yahoo takeover deal that Microsoft would help finance. All Things D’s Kara Swisher, meanwhile, talked to Microsoft and Yahoo and both are scoffing at the report.""Jan 11 23:38
schestowitzLabour's graduates aren't getting jobs < >; Intel's Early Warning Bodes Badly For Whole Economy < >Jan 11 23:41
schestowitzIndia's Hyderabad city hurts from Satyam scandal < >Jan 11 23:41
schestowitzMicrosoft hints at cutbacks < >. It might be announced next week,. The question is, how many? On the 22nd, the question will be how much lower than already lowered expectations Microsoft be?Jan 11 23:44
schestowitzIt's almost done... put it out of its misery.. "Microsoft May Finally Nuke The Zune (MSFT)" < >Jan 11 23:46
schestowitzDina Bass ->> That's the woman whom Microsoft worked with (cooked with) reports about Vista... now she's working to falsify a report that's damaging.Jan 11 23:50
schestowitzDamage control also from Microsoft's (sort of, dying nonetheless) press outlet: 11 23:51

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