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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 26th, 2009 - Part 2

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schestowitzPrepare for the MS bloggers to be all smugFeb 26 10:33
schestowitz"Bradley Kuhn, Software Freedom Law Center policy analyst, told The Reg Wednesday evening: "It's a good moment for people to take a step back and re-think how friendly Microsoft is to open source.""Feb 26 10:34
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schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/... "In the most recent case, Microsoft settled with Taiwanese mouse-maker Primax after accusing it of violating its tilt-wheel technologies."Feb 26 10:36
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schestowitzBoard Game Maker Sues Google, Claiming Trademark Infringement < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090... >Feb 26 10:41
schestowitzMicrosoft tries to embargo TomTom.. "Not surprisingly, Microsoft is using the infamous ITC loophole to get two shots at forcing TomTom to pay up -- meaning that it's both sued the company in court, and gone to the ITC to have it try to block the import of TomTom products. " http://techdirt.com/articles/20...Feb 26 10:43
oiaohm_TomTom could try embargoing MS as wellFeb 26 10:45
oiaohm_Since most of there development is done overseas and is imported.Feb 26 10:45
schestowitzYesFeb 26 10:47
schestowitzi thought so tooFeb 26 10:47
oiaohm_MS is playing a really risky game of chicken.Feb 26 10:48
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oiaohm_Delay on code imports would stuff MS Windows 7 release.Feb 26 10:48
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schestowitzThey have no choiceFeb 26 10:49
schestowitzthey are losingFeb 26 10:49
schestowitz$0 windows..Feb 26 10:50
oiaohm_There is losing and there is risking getting you head bricked in.Feb 26 10:50
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oiaohm_This is the latter.Feb 26 10:51
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schestowitz"Nokia aims to shed 1000 staff, voluntarily"Feb 26 10:53
oiaohm_Nokia is over due for a staff reduction.Feb 26 10:53
oiaohm_They normally kick out so many and then require some new ones.Feb 26 10:54
schestowitz"I was going to spend my money on upgrading to Windows 7 when it is released, but after reading this, I am disgusted at Microsoft's apparent greed (the world is…"Feb 26 10:55
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harrytuttlehelloFeb 26 10:56
schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/23479/1148/Feb 26 10:56
schestowitzHeyFeb 26 10:56
harrytuttleim sure you already saw this:Feb 26 10:56
harrytuttlehttp://lwn.net/Articles/320737/#CommentsFeb 26 10:56
harrytuttlems suing a linux-based vendor on patentsFeb 26 10:56
harrytuttleoh well, okay so the cats out of the bagFeb 26 10:57
schestowitzYesFeb 26 10:57
schestowitzI hope TomTomy fightsFeb 26 10:57
schestowitzSomeone should encourage it not to settleFeb 26 10:57
harrytuttlewell, I guess its clear now there is high risk they will sue anyone using mono-infested dotnet crap...Feb 26 10:58
harrytuttleyeah TomTom should never get into cross-license here, what is clearly ms-number one optionFeb 26 10:59
harrytuttleto make it even more so look that anyone embedding linux needs that crap crosslicenseFeb 26 10:59
harrytuttlefsf or anyone promoting gnu/linux should step in and prevent a settlementFeb 26 11:00
harrytuttleheck , dont all the mobiles that use flash-storage use FAT somehow?Feb 26 11:01
schestowitzSame with OINFeb 26 11:02
schestowitzyes, FAT would affect other Linux-powered gadgetsFeb 26 11:02
schestowitzEU to oblige Microsoft to offer competitors’ browsers < http://www.euractiv.com/en/infosociety/e... > There\s already an attack on Google for 'daring' to protest Microsoft's crimes vs. NetscapeFeb 26 11:07
schestowitzSteve Jobs Probably Won't Return To Apple < http://www.pcworld.com/businesscent... > Good.Feb 26 11:08
schestowitzLenovo Cuts 450 Jobs in China < http://www.pcworld.com/article/16... >Feb 26 11:08
kentma1i though that lenovo were a chinese company?Feb 26 11:08
kentma1I.Feb 26 11:08
schestowitzIt is. Semiconductor Revenue in Massive Slowdown < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160242... >Feb 26 11:12
schestowitzSigns of miserable sales (can't sell it at a cost): Microsoft Readying Low-cost Windows Server OS < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160219/microsoft... >Feb 26 11:18
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schestowitzHi, mib_epfsdc Feb 26 11:28
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oiaohm_The crunch is on.Feb 26 11:34
oiaohm_Now if samba can get a working ADS out the door it will get way worse.Feb 26 11:34
oiaohm_Nas servers being offered as full servers.Feb 26 11:35
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kentma1indeed.  I can't see how MS can possibly maintain a presence in this market in the long run.  Competing with free is very difficult - they're relying on market inertia now, there is no other reason for buying MS.Feb 26 11:50
oiaohm_vendor lock in.Feb 26 11:51
oiaohm_X11 when its 100 percent solid should see focus return to graphical for management.Feb 26 11:51
kentma1graphical generally assumes personal presence, though... and whilst I appreciate that you can longline X with ssh, it's not always all that responsive, whereas a screen cli session over ssh is totally reliable, stateful and suffers very little performance drop even over huge distances.Feb 26 11:53
oiaohm_Local mangement kentma1Feb 26 11:54
oiaohm_Using graphic where if it goes splat takes all you means to control it is not suitable.  ie the way X11 has been.Feb 26 11:54
oiaohm_Firefox with the instructions and the console is really handy at times.Feb 26 11:55
schestowitzzoobab01: you got the court complaints, right? The PDF...Feb 26 12:02
kentma1oiaohm_: I'm not sure I really understand what you're driving at here, though.  X is a long way up the stack on linux machines, whereas a cli is almost talking directly to the kernel,  it takes  a lot to kill a cli, whereas killing X is relatively easy due to its complexity.  I agree that having a browser open when you're fixing is good, but again, you really rely on most of the machine working in order to do that, so it can't really work forFeb 26 12:05
oiaohm_X11 is not just complexitFeb 26 12:07
oiaohm_Cli do lock up.Feb 26 12:07
oiaohm_But you can safely switch to another one and recovered the dead one.Feb 26 12:07
oiaohm_X11 problem has been due to its video card handling that was made impossiable.Feb 26 12:08
oiaohm_Its not X11 compexitity its management of video cards was the issue nothing more.Feb 26 12:08
kentma1oiaohm_: I must disagree with that - X has all manner of dependencies, including many complex libraries, mouse drivers, networking, sockets, etc. etc.  Even starting an x-session by hand is quite difficult unless you're pretty familiar with it.  Cli is about as close to the iron as you can get, is really my point.Feb 26 12:10
oiaohm_My point is simple does that really matter if you can  recover from a X11 failure just as simplely as a console switching.Feb 26 12:11
oiaohm_Cli is close to kernel but nothing that is an application is 100 percent protected from stuffing up the terminal either.Feb 26 12:11
kentma1I agree.Feb 26 12:12
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oiaohm_Until X11 reaches that point its not a safe admin tool.Feb 26 12:12
oiaohm_That is not far off.Feb 26 12:13
harrytuttleregarding the FAT-patent litigation, there was an interesting comment on slashdotFeb 26 12:15
harrytuttle"What's really f**ed up about this is that Microsoft is just now deciding to do something. FAT has existed for almost two decades, and the FS driver in Linux for quite some time as well. They waited for their FS to become a de facto standard so they could drop the hammer on people."Feb 26 12:16
harrytuttle"If you own a trademark you have to actively defend it, lest it become a standard term for the product type. Shouldn't technology and patents be the same way? If you allow entire industries to adopt your patented method without defending it you should lose the patent."Feb 26 12:16
MinceRindeedFeb 26 12:17
harrytuttlethat could as well relate to mono/dotnet in the future... let it adopt as "standard" on linux over time and then sue over patented stuffFeb 26 12:18
harrytuttlethe risk is higher with a company at least trying to kill linux than a company who invests sums directly into the platform (Sun, IBM, Google)Feb 26 12:19
harrytuttlei can see absolutely no other interest for ms to let mono flourish on THE most feared competing operating system: GNU/Linux other than to extend their reign via patents later... it would absolutely make no sense from their standpoint to just watch and even help such a project inderectly by funding NovellFeb 26 12:23
harrytuttleits obvious that the ms-novell deal is setup as a proxy /tool for porting over that crap instead of ms doing that themselves....Feb 26 12:27
oiaohm_Novell was dead in the water before the MS deal.Feb 26 12:28
oiaohm_Problem here Novell still costs MS a lot of money.Feb 26 12:29
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oiaohm_Ms does not want a patent war.Feb 26 12:30
oiaohm_so far MAD has held.Feb 26 12:31
harrytuttletrue, they want to settle on threat and extortion over possible patent litigationsFeb 26 12:31
harrytuttlewant to put  sticker on everything commerical linux as to make it look "clean"Feb 26 12:31
harrytuttle=paid forFeb 26 12:32
oiaohm_There is a bigger problem here.Feb 26 12:32
oiaohm_MS takes in a lot of money each year for Fat patents on devices.Feb 26 12:33
schestowitzharrytuttle: yes, that's what they wantFeb 26 12:33
oiaohm_So if tom tom wins MS has another big hole in there income.Feb 26 12:33
schestowitzResponse #1: eliminate swpatents; #2: avoid Microsoft technologies (direct copies like Mono)Feb 26 12:33
oiaohm_I really don't know what MS is thinking doing it at this time.Feb 26 12:33
schestowitzoiaohm_: yes, timing is oddFeb 26 12:33
harrytuttleany links to show their income based on FAT?Feb 26 12:33
schestowitzCompared to previous assaults.Feb 26 12:34
schestowitzBear in mind Novell might announce its layoffs todayFeb 26 12:34
schestowitzBut maybe tomorrFeb 26 12:34
schestowitzMSF sank this weekFeb 26 12:34
schestowitz$16.xxFeb 26 12:34
schestowitzAnd Ballmer couldn't give answer to his investors.Feb 26 12:34
schestowitzI'm doing a post about it ATMFeb 26 12:34
schestowitzGive me 10 minutedsFeb 26 12:34
oiaohm_Most of MS patent income on there books comes from FAT.Feb 26 12:35
oiaohm_This is why I say why the hell are they mad enough to put the FAT ones on the table.Feb 26 12:35
oiaohm_Changing over to exFAT was ment to keep there money tree on FAT coming in.Feb 26 12:36
harrytuttlehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...Feb 26 12:39
harrytuttleseems like all patents regarding FAT deal with short<->long filenamesFeb 26 12:40
harrytuttleso they patented their own shortcomings and circumventionsFeb 26 12:41
harrytuttleas everything else would have been prior art anywayFeb 26 12:41
harrytuttlethinking of it, maybe thats also the trick with MS-XMLFeb 26 12:42
harrytuttlemake it really reatrded and patent the methods to make it behave a little less insaneFeb 26 12:43
harrytuttlereatrded=retardedFeb 26 12:43
harrytuttleso for others the basic version is useless crap (FAT with short names) and the actual methods to make it useful are patentedFeb 26 12:44
harrytuttlebrilliant idea if you think about itFeb 26 12:44
oiaohm_Now there is a major downside.Feb 26 12:45
oiaohm_What reason does TomTom have to use fat.Feb 26 12:45
oiaohm_Now that would be pure funny if devices makers started demarding Linux to update there firmwares because they are using Linux.Feb 26 12:46
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schestowitzHi, mikko Feb 26 12:58
mikkohiFeb 26 12:59
schestowitzharrytuttle: I made a new post. Probably contains typos. I quote you guys there.. so it's like groupthink.Feb 26 12:59
mikkowere there any case when some patent troll (e.g. Acacia) were using Microsoft patents for their dirty job, if so can you please point at right directionFeb 26 13:01
schestowitzNo, just Microsoft employeesFeb 26 13:04
schestowitzThey attacked Red Hat  (and Novell) shortly after hiring Microsoft people to join their managementFeb 26 13:05
schestowitzThis came also days after Ballmer warned that terrible things might happenFeb 26 13:05
schestowitzJust got this by mail: "I saw this an immediately thought of both of you. It looks like we may be at the "then they fight you" stage. I guess the then you win isn't too far off :) http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft... "Feb 26 13:05
mikkoso TomTom case is the first time MS patents are being used for litigation?Feb 26 13:12
oiaohm_Win/LossFeb 26 13:12
oiaohm_Question is who gets what.Feb 26 13:12
schestowitzmikko: not really.Feb 26 13:17
schestowitzThey did the same thing against a hardware makerFeb 26 13:17
schestowitzThis time it's software and it's Linux too.Feb 26 13:17
mikkowhere I can read about itFeb 26 13:18
mikkothe hardware makerFeb 26 13:19
schestowitzThe Microsoft shills are at it now: http://blog.actonline.org/2009/02...Feb 26 13:19
schestowitzmikko: I made this post with 4 links to it: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/26...Feb 26 13:19
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/31/...Feb 26 13:19
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10002919-56....Feb 26 13:20
schestowitzhttp://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micr...Feb 26 13:20
schestowitzTomTom Rejects Microsoft's Patent Infringement Claims < http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/artic... >Feb 26 13:20
mikkothanksFeb 26 13:20
schestowitzAnother plane has just crased.  http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/e...Feb 26 13:26
schestowitz*shedFeb 26 13:26
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harrytuttlehttp://blog.actonline.org/2009/02/microsoft...Feb 26 13:44
harrytuttlejust read itFeb 26 13:44
harrytuttlewho are those shills?Feb 26 13:44
harrytuttleact online?Feb 26 13:44
schestowitzYesFeb 26 13:53
schestowitzI'm writing about them ATMFeb 26 13:53
schestowitzThey do nasty stuff in Europe at the moment.Feb 26 13:53
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harrytuttlehttp://www.actonline.org/na/members/index.htmlFeb 26 14:26
harrytuttlethis is sooo 90sFeb 26 14:27
harrytuttlehate when someone pretends to be on the small mans side but in fact they're notFeb 26 14:27
harrytuttlethey are just pretendersFeb 26 14:28
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schestowitzYes, give me 10 minutesFeb 26 14:31
schestowitzI'll give it to the,Feb 26 14:31
schestowitz*themFeb 26 14:31
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schestowitzA detailed overview of Microsoft's latest activities in Europe, using lobbies: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/26/ms-e...Feb 26 14:51
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schestowitzCarphone Warehouse to axe 450 jobs < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009... >Feb 26 14:56
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schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/mi... "Eben Moglen—a Columbia University law professor and the chairman of the Software Freedom Law Center—once described the FAT patents as a "proverbial Sword of Damocles hanging over the open source community""Feb 26 15:04
kentma1The FAT patent might be the sword, but there is not doubt at all that the USPTO is the armoury.Feb 26 15:06
schestowitzMicrosoft on the equivalent of more layoffs: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Micr... "Microsoft, citing the "realities of a deteriorating economy," will reduce by 10 percent the amount it pays employment agencies for many of its temporary workers -- and cut by 15 percent the target billing rate for future temporary work."Feb 26 15:07
schestowitzSo they cut wages rather then cut even MORE jobs. Not good for them...Feb 26 15:07
PetoKrausnice article, royFeb 26 15:07
PetoKrausthat ms-eu-patent-lobbyFeb 26 15:07
schestowitzThanks.Feb 26 15:08
schestowitzhttp://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02/26/w... "Even worse, about a third of netbooks ship with Linux. Microsoft makes nothing from those machines." That's why Windows is dying as a _cash cow_Feb 26 15:08
PetoKrausbengy has a good post: http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/0...Feb 26 15:10
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schestowitzHe still blogs?Feb 26 15:11
schestowitzWPFeb 26 15:11
PetoKrausyeahFeb 26 15:11
PetoKrausit's going down the slope thoughFeb 26 15:11
mib_n6dw08hi - oh, sorry, it's kentma3 here just trying the applet on BN...  hey, it works!Feb 26 15:11
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PetoKraushttp://thepiratebay.org/Feb 26 15:12
schestowitzHehe. Subheadline very typicalFeb 26 15:12
kentma1very impressive.Feb 26 15:12
PetoKrausthe image might be worth quotingFeb 26 15:12
schestowitz"Make me espresso before you die"Feb 26 15:13
schestowitzWhich image?Feb 26 15:13
PetoKraushttp://thepiratebay.org/Feb 26 15:13
PetoKrausi'll dig the link outta the source codeFeb 26 15:14
PetoKraushttp://static.thepiratebay.org/img/i...Feb 26 15:14
PetoKrausummFeb 26 15:14
PetoKraushttp://static.thepiratebay.org/dood...Feb 26 15:14
PetoKraus:)Feb 26 15:14
schestowitzYeah, I know that one.   Does Beranger still use Win32?Feb 26 15:16
PetoKrausi guess soFeb 26 15:16
PetoKraushe's still ranting about some antivirusesFeb 26 15:16
kentma1heheFeb 26 15:17
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schestowitzn00b :-)Feb 26 15:18
schestowitzzoobab01: did you see the GE logos in IAM?Feb 26 15:19
schestowitzThose buggers are now funding the patent cartel?Feb 26 15:19
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daltonwhy boycotting novell?Feb 26 15:24
PetoKrausin short: cause of the deal with microsoftFeb 26 15:25
schestowitzMemo reveals multiple breaches of ID card database  < http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,10000... >Feb 26 15:25
schestowitzdalton: because they began some of thisFeb 26 15:25
schestowitzIn 2006 they came to Microsoft and signed a patent dealFeb 26 15:25
schestowitzMicrosoft then used this to argue that Linux is "not free" and now it's attacking.Feb 26 15:26
schestowitzIt attacked with words in May 2007 and in the court in Feb 2009Feb 26 15:26
daltoni understoodFeb 26 15:26
daltoncause it no more freeFeb 26 15:26
schestowitzNovell does nothing to helpFeb 26 15:26
schestowitzIt uses these threats to market itselfFeb 26 15:26
schestowitz"Intellectual property peace of mind," Novell calls itFeb 26 15:27
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daltonbut M$ is free in pirate modeFeb 26 15:27
schestowitzWhat's that?Feb 26 15:27
schestowitzNicely put: "In other words, Microsoft "respects and appreciates" open source until it actually starts to replace Microsoft's offerings, in which case the charming smile is replaced with the shark's grimace." < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/02/has-mic... >Feb 26 15:28
daltonnon authorized installationFeb 26 15:28
schestowitzdalton: Microsoft is in a freefall, so it's cracking down on whatever makes money. First illegal distributors of Windows and also this (extortions against Linux).Feb 26 15:29
schestowitzThe Chinese (Web Servers) Are Coming < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/20... >Feb 26 15:30
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schestowitzzer0c00l: are you still blocked?Feb 26 15:30
zer0c00lyeahFeb 26 15:31
zer0c00li amFeb 26 15:31
zer0c00lschestowitz: i am still blocked ..using some webproxyFeb 26 15:31
zer0c00lseems like dirty work of adminFeb 26 15:32
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toroshiFeb 26 15:32
schestowitzHeyFeb 26 15:36
schestowitzWe're mentioned in a videoFeb 26 15:36
schestowitzI'll post it to BNFeb 26 15:36
schestowitzDone: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/26/...Feb 26 15:42
schestowitzQuake Live Out Now! But not for GNU/Linux < http://www.inatux.com/articles/Q... >Feb 26 15:42
torosschestowitz: great videoFeb 26 15:52
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schestowitztoros: he actually pronounced my name right :-)Feb 26 15:57
torosschestowitz: :)Feb 26 15:57
schestowitzhttp://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-f... (Microsoft Sues TomTom For Linux Patent Infringement)Feb 26 15:59
kentma1Quake is one of the games I've bought linux versions of...Feb 26 16:00
kentma1Quake 3, that is.Feb 26 16:00
torosI wonder who will be next after TomTom... Red Hat? Canonical? or Mandriva?Feb 26 16:00
schestowitzThere needn't be a "next"Feb 26 16:00
schestowitzI imagine that Microsoft went through companies like Brother and used similar tacticsFeb 26 16:01
kentma1I don't think MS will go for the "jugular", they'll try, instead, to put off companies which use Linux and push them onto Windows by suing them for using anything else.Feb 26 16:01
schestowitzSome of them cavedFeb 26 16:01
schestowitzTomTom said no, so Microsoft sued and needed to list patentsFeb 26 16:01
schestowitzHere is the press release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/pr...Feb 26 16:01
schestowitzMicrosoft says nothing there about "Linux:'Feb 26 16:01
schestowitzSo it's only people who looked deeply at the patents who saw the Linux linkFeb 26 16:02
schestowitzThis means that Microsoft is still on a crusader to become a leech, a patent merchant.Feb 26 16:02
torosI don't know what Microsoft will do when Linux starts gaining much more market shareFeb 26 16:04
kentma1sure, you can licence Windows directly from MS, or you can pay MS patent royalties to use anything which isn't Windows.  You have to admire the complete dishonesty of the approach!Feb 26 16:04
schestowitzhttp://blogs.sun.com/webmink/ent... Simon Phipps (Sun): "This would explain the (now clearly hollow) charm offensive with the open source community."Feb 26 16:04
schestowitzkentma1: "Intellectual property is the next software." --Nathan Myhrvold, Microsoft patent trollFeb 26 16:06
schestowitzI.e. forget about making products... just make 'ideas'...Feb 26 16:06
schestowitzThose who develop software are floor scrubbersFeb 26 16:06
schestowitzThose who sell software are 'thinkers' (or patent harvesters)Feb 26 16:06
kentma1actually, you don't have the ideas, you merely keep assembling other people's ideas in as many different ways as you can and patenting them.Feb 26 16:07
schestowitzyes, that's what patents areFeb 26 16:07
kentma1this is the essence of software patents - they are virtually all which I have seen, essentially free of original content.Feb 26 16:07
schestowitzinput1+input2=outputFeb 26 16:07
schestowitzoutput becomes patent and then fed as another inputXFeb 26 16:08
schestowitzhttp://slated.org/the_right... "To claim ownership of knowledge is like claiming the rights of a God. "Feb 26 16:08
kentma1the biggest issue is that this is only absurd to anyone who understands the technology.Feb 26 16:08
kentma1To those who cannot understand the technology, the debate regarding patents is probably very unclear indeed.Feb 26 16:09
schestowitzIt's down to lobbyisys (spin) and bribesFeb 26 16:10
schestowitz"Encourage innovation"Feb 26 16:10
schestowitzThey also AstroTurf... ACT appears to have just set up another pseudo-grassroots siteFeb 26 16:11
schestowitzThey also put up posters across Brussels for some good brainwash. I'm always reminded of people who tell me that Microsoft is a "political movement", which make sense..Feb 26 16:11
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story... "Considering that TomTom violates the GPL and haven't exactly been the nicest company toward their competitors (they've sued Toyota and Garmin iirc), I'm not sure I want OIN to waste their efforts protecting TomTom."Feb 26 16:14
avutonGot a link to their gpl violation information?Feb 26 16:15
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avutonSpeaking of, my brand new plasma 58in has the GPL license built in under some optionsFeb 26 16:16
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schestowitzavuton: I think so.Feb 26 16:18
schestowitzRed Hat Recruits Oracle/BEA Veteran Steve Hess < http://www.thevarguy.com/2009/02/25/... >Feb 26 16:18
torosgood byeFeb 26 16:20
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schestowitzavuton: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottno...Feb 26 16:22
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/14/tomtom-...Feb 26 16:22
schestowitzhttp://tycheent.wordpress.com/2008/12/28/...Feb 26 16:23
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/29/linux...Feb 26 16:23
schestowitzJan Stedehouder writes: "The TomTom news is old again. The company isn’t hiding it’s use of Linux, but offers the source code of the various components on it’s website:Feb 26 16:23
schestowitzhttp://www.tomtom.com/page.php?Page=gplFeb 26 16:23
schestowitzIn 2004 this was already settled in a case with GPL Violations:Feb 26 16:23
schestowitzhttp://gpl-violations.org/news/20041...Feb 26 16:23
schestowitzIt’s desktop software is Windows- and Mac-only, which is a shame actually. "Feb 26 16:23
avutonAahFeb 26 16:26
avutonAll I know is a buddy got MPD running on it :)Feb 26 16:26
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balzacRoy, I've looked further into the G1 with Android.Feb 26 16:35
balzacI know enough to know that I'm not interested in Android.Feb 26 16:35
balzacAndroid is Linux without GNU. Android is neutered.Feb 26 16:36
balzacBut there's a guy who put a debian image into the G1 alongside Android, so you can run the GNU user-space in a G1.Feb 26 16:37
balzacThat's what I'm going to do, because I like the G1 hardware.Feb 26 16:37
schestowitzIs it sold at a loss?Feb 26 16:37
schestowitzHi, open_Isaac Feb 26 16:38
balzacyesFeb 26 16:38
balzacThey want you to buy the developer version for $400Feb 26 16:38
balzacbut I'll take the regular G1 $180 with T-mobile contract (same hardware) and unlock it myself.Feb 26 16:38
MinceRcan the gnu userspace access the phone, gps and PIM data stored by android?Feb 26 16:38
zoobab01G1 = Linux castration by GoogleFeb 26 16:39
balzacMinceR: well, you'll have a root account and tools like grep, nano, and opensshFeb 26 16:39
balzacinside the debian imageFeb 26 16:39
balzacand set the debian to run a vnc server and then log into that from your android vnc client, so you can easily switch between android and debian by pressing the home buttonFeb 26 16:40
balzacMinceR: the GPS, PIM data - I don't know. It would take someone more capable than myself to figure that out.Feb 26 16:41
balzacBut to have a full GNU/Linux environment inside a nice phone like the G1 is something I can't resist.Feb 26 16:42
MinceRi think it's an important aspect of openness to be able to make actual use of the hardware.Feb 26 16:42
balzacAlso, G1 has multi-touch, but it's not enabled so as not to provoke a lawsuit from Apple.Feb 26 16:42
MinceRi wonder how well X runs on such devicesFeb 26 16:42
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balzacI've seen screenshots of X on the G1Feb 26 16:43
schestowitzMinceR: full desktops run on itFeb 26 16:43
schestowitzEven kde4 runs on G1, IIRCFeb 26 16:43
schestowitzLooks nice, too.Feb 26 16:43
schestowitzLemmie find...Feb 26 16:43
schestowitzGnome, KDE, IceWM or LXDE Desktop on your Android! < http://www.androidfanatic.com/cms/communit... >Feb 26 16:44
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balzac_http://www.androidfanatic.com/cms/com...Feb 26 16:44
balzac_http://www.ryebrye.com/blog/2008/11/1...Feb 26 16:45
balzac_http://www.saurik.com/id/10Feb 26 16:45
balzacsaurik has an irc server set up: irc.saurik.comFeb 26 16:45
balzache's got a channel in there called #androidFeb 26 16:46
MinceRand how fast is it through that vnc hack?Feb 26 16:46
balzacI don't knowFeb 26 16:46
balzacrybrye is the guy who discovered the latent multi-touch capabilitiesFeb 26 16:47
balzacso, it looks pretty juicy...Feb 26 16:47
balzacAlso, such nice hardware is just begging for a full GNU/Linux distro to colonize it.Feb 26 16:48
balzacI just don't have any interest in Linux without GNU (Android), yet I am interested in GNU without Linux.Feb 26 16:49
schestowitzWhy not FreeRunner?Feb 26 16:49
schestowitzMore expensive, sure.Feb 26 16:49
balzacclunky hardware. No keyboard.Feb 26 16:49
schestowitzNot GoogleShop(R) with DRM-enabled stuffFeb 26 16:49
balzacI must have a keyboard. The touch-screen is a deal-killer for me. I hate the iPhone for just that reason.Feb 26 16:49
balzacI like touch-screen, but I can't stand having no keyboard.Feb 26 16:50
balzacThe G1 has the nicest keyboard I've yet seen on a phone.Feb 26 16:50
balzacRoy, this can be construed as an action challenging android on its own hardware.Feb 26 16:51
balzacIf the OpenMoko comes forth with a keyboard, I'll look again. I just don't care for the hardware.Feb 26 16:51
balzacI really like that OpenMoko has open hardware specs. That is awesome. But let's see a more advanced hardware design.Feb 26 16:52
schestowitzChipmaker Dumps Employees, Bumps Exec$ < http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/chipma... >. Many good links there.Feb 26 16:54
balzacI would volunteer to use some free CAD software to help re-design the OpenMoko, but I'm not going to get the FreeRunner without a keyboard and with such a clunky design.Feb 26 16:55
schestowitzI wonder if Novell will announce the firing of 25% of its workforce tonightFeb 26 16:55
balzachopefullyFeb 26 16:55
schestowitzThere's an article about the CEO now.Feb 26 16:56
balzacand hopefully there'll be lots of disgruntled workers who were SUSE developers who help rescue the SUSE community from Novell.Feb 26 16:56
schestowitzNovell CEO's 2008 compensation was $6.9 millionFeb 26 16:56
schestowitzhttp://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090225/no...Feb 26 16:56
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schestowitz25 SUSE employees or so have just been fired. They would cost about 25x$70,000=$1.75mFeb 26 16:58
schestowitzSo they could work for 4 years with a good wage at the expense of that "compensation" for HovsepianFeb 26 16:58
schestowitzThe managers are too busy 'worrying' about their boats, I suppose.Feb 26 16:58
balzacToo busy with Yacht Club meetings.Feb 26 17:07
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schestowitzIs It Impossible For Hulu To Survive? < http://techdirt.com/articles/2... >Feb 26 17:13
schestowitzIf Flash player was made open source, this patch could be delivered a lot more simply: http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Adob...Feb 26 17:17
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MinceRand it could be made to run efficientlyFeb 26 17:21
balzacToo late for FlashFeb 26 17:22
balzacHTML 5 and Firefox are leaving Flash behindFeb 26 17:23
MinceRsadly, web developers aren'tFeb 26 17:23
schestowitzHaha!!Feb 26 17:27
schestowitzVista7 delayedFeb 26 17:27
schestowitz2010Feb 26 17:27
schestowitzI told youi!Feb 26 17:27
schestowitz"Windows 7 is scheduled to ship in early 2010." --CNN http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/...Feb 26 17:28
avutonThey've never released on time iircFeb 26 17:28
balzacteeheeFeb 26 17:40
schestowitzThe bigger cash cow, Office, has just been delayed alsoFeb 26 17:44
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schestowitzhttp://linuxmednews.com/1235605037 : Yikes -- Health care overhaul: $646 billion [to be announced tomorrow] Feb 26 17:56
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schestowitzSo much noise about this proprietary software running on Ubuntu... http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/02/prweb2184684.htm .. it's all over the press. Oracle too runs on Linux (Red Hat/variant), but no-one treats it like the Next Coming.Feb 26 18:03
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Balroghello everyoneFeb 26 18:20
schestowitzHey there.Feb 26 18:25
schestowitzI'm relying to a journalist :-DFeb 26 18:25
schestowitzI've read about 20 short articles about the news.Feb 26 18:37
schestowitzJust replying now..Feb 26 18:37
schestowitzbblFeb 26 18:57
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trmancohttp://www.rumblingedge.com/2009/02/26/t...Feb 26 19:47
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Balrogschestowitz: this patent mess shows what MS *really* wants with mono and moonlightFeb 26 20:00
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trmancohttp://endsoftpatents.org/looking-at-micr...Feb 26 20:04
trmancohttp://digg.com/linux_unix/Looking_at_Micro...Feb 26 20:04
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schestowitzNothing from Novell yet: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/del...Feb 26 21:09
schestowitzBalrog: agreed. More Microsoft 'standards' inherent in LinuxFeb 26 21:10
BalroginterestingFeb 26 21:11
BalrogI try compiling mono from SVN on my gentoo boxFeb 26 21:11
Balrogand it crashes with a sigsegv in the make processFeb 26 21:11
BalrogI go ask at #mono (on the gnome irc network)Feb 26 21:11
Balrogand miguel says 'gentoo is eternally broken'Feb 26 21:11
schestowitzgentoo says "novell is eternally broken"Feb 26 21:12
trmancono, that is Gentoo's AI workingFeb 26 21:15
trmancoIt knows when certain programs are malicious for the user, só Gentoo's AI crashes up what it can (in this case the build process) to protect the userFeb 26 21:17
schestowitztrmanco: what's with THAT troll. "The "anti" here is a company attacking freedom. Don't confuse defender and offender (who makes new laws to protect abusive monopoly)."Feb 26 21:17
schestowitztrmanco: true, true.. it's like MS officeFeb 26 21:17
schestowitzMicrosoft: Word 2007 crashes aren't a bug, they're a feature < http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do... >Feb 26 21:18
trmancothat is is job, to troll...Feb 26 21:18
trmancohe will get buried soon enoughFeb 26 21:18
schestowitzWe've just been references in CNETFeb 26 21:18
schestowitz*edFeb 26 21:19
trmancogr8Feb 26 21:20
schestowitzbrbFeb 26 21:20
Balrogwhere referenced?Feb 26 21:23
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10172575-...Feb 26 21:36
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02... (Teen sacked for 'boring' job Facebook comment)Feb 26 21:39
trmancois it okay to forward a FSF message to an advocacy group?Feb 26 21:41
schestowitzSure, why not?Feb 26 21:42
trmancohmm, just wonderingFeb 26 21:43
schestowitzTibetan New Year Protests Around the World Today: Boycotting Losar. < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/25... >Feb 26 21:50
trmancoposted,the FWDFeb 26 21:51
trmancoon colaFeb 26 21:52
schestowitzBBC Appoints Ex-Yahoo John Linwood as CTO - http://is.gd/kZ4r *Not* someone from Microsoft...anybody know anything about him?  < http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/1254379136 >Feb 26 21:53
schestowitzMozilla Labs Meetup - London  <  http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/1852855/ >Feb 26 21:54
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trmancohttp://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/Chromium3.pngFeb 26 21:58
schestowitzhttp://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition...Feb 26 21:58
schestowitzI've just gone to "about:robots"Feb 26 21:59
schestowitzMy FF3 is just 6 days old, so..Feb 26 21:59
trmancowhat, you current build?Feb 26 21:59
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schestowitzYes, I'll upgrade to 3.1 when it's out.Same with Thunderbird, which is the app I probably use the mostFeb 26 22:00
trmancoyeah, I'm also waiting for the birdFeb 26 22:01
schestowitz"Blasting Nvidia, in the spirit of low-level tit-for-tat we have become accustomed to this week, Otellini asked, "If you don't have a microprocessor, what else do you have to sell?", implying that running a computer on a GPU alone was about as sensible as using chopsticks to eat yoghurt."Feb 26 22:01
trmancololFeb 26 22:02
schestowitzThe Intel criminal (bribery, destruction of evidence, OLPC sabotage etc.) is attacking nvidia again: Blasting Nvidia, in the spirit of low-level tit-for-tat we have become accustomed to this week, Otellini asked, "If you don't have a microprocessor, what else do you have to sell?", implying that running a computer on a GPU alone was about as sensible as using chopsticks to eat yoghurt.Feb 26 22:02
schestowitzOops. Link: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne...Feb 26 22:02
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schestowitzNOVL is going to drop the axeFeb 26 22:09
schestowitzJust in: Novell Q1 earnings fall http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...Feb 26 22:09
schestowitzNovell Q1 EPS falls - Quick Facts  http://www.rttnews.com/Content/QuickFac... &Category=Quick FactsFeb 26 22:10
schestowitzNovell 1Q Net Down 36% On Lower Interest Income; Revenue Down http://www.easybourse.com/bourse-actualite/m...Feb 26 22:11
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joseschestowitz, see one of the last comments http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.p... .. dated February 26 2009 5:24 PMPDTFeb 26 22:26
joseAn angle I have not much thought about is Novell positioning themselves to get bought by MS or by IBM.Feb 26 22:27
jose>> I would not be too surprised if Red Hat, Sun, and Novell are desired as (real or effective) subsidiaries by Microsoft and by IBM. Along the way, various of these players (and other proxies) might partake in a gobbling orgy. Also scooped up will be existing FOSS assets unrelated to these. In this world, Novell can play IBM against Microsoft. They don't care where they end up. [Significantly, as well, Google and Microsoft might havFeb 26 22:27
josee their eyes set on each others' proprietary assets.]Feb 26 22:27
joseI'll note that Microsoft is uncompromising and super ambitious. As I write they are likely ripping Novell's channel (and credibility) out from under them since this is cheaper&surer.Feb 26 22:27
joseMS also would trust very little, so that have much to gain by hollowing out Novell before Novell gains too much of anything.Feb 26 22:29
josewhy take risksFeb 26 22:29
schestowitzHey, jose Feb 26 22:32
joseSchestowitz, I wanted to point that out. I shouldn't hang around here too long. Already spent much more time than expected posting to that thread.Feb 26 22:32
joseheyFeb 26 22:32
schestowitzYes, it makes some senseFeb 26 22:32
schestowitzBut IBM is already using SUSEFeb 26 22:32
schestowitzIt helps Novell buy SUSEFeb 26 22:32
schestowitzTo keep Red Hat from getting too strongFeb 26 22:33
schestowitzIBM endorsed the MS patent deal alsoFeb 26 22:33
schestowitzGive me a moment to write about Novell's terrible results.Feb 26 22:33
schestowitzSpeed counts.Feb 26 22:33
joseibm has always supported novell's moves.. the two have been in proximity in various ways.Feb 26 22:33
joseok, i'll stay on for a while longer.Feb 26 22:34
joseibm would like novell as a defensive move against Microsoft. in the meantime novell might be a proxy.Feb 26 22:35
joseibm has no prob with patent deals or with deals of any kind.Feb 26 22:35
josenovell would likely be playing for themselves though. they could live as a close part of a proprietary monopolyFeb 26 22:35
josei think novell is a threatFeb 26 22:35
joseso much lack of trustFeb 26 22:36
joseno one trusts anyone else.. that's how that world works..Feb 26 22:36
josewhile these companies play their chess match..Feb 26 22:37
josei don't want foss to sufferFeb 26 22:37
schestowitzI'll post it now while I editFeb 26 22:37
schestowitzSo that you see itFeb 26 22:37
josenot the marcel gagne piece i take it.. i'll wait.Feb 26 22:38
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schestowitzjose: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/...Feb 26 22:46
schestowitzI'm still removing typos. Let me know if you find some.Feb 26 22:46
joseOne of our readers said one hours ago that he triedFeb 26 22:49
joseone hourFeb 26 22:49
schestowitzI found 3 more typos. Looks better now..Feb 26 22:53
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schestowitzPreston Gralla is already spinning the Office 14 disaster for MicrosoftFeb 26 22:56
schestowitz"It's not MS incompetence, it's the economy" (or something like that)Feb 26 22:56
josewhat was the disaster? revenue numbers for it? or quality? ?Feb 26 22:57
schestowitzDelay (one year)Feb 26 22:57
schestowitzALso, while you were away.. it turned out that Vista7 is delayed alsoFeb 26 22:58
schestowitz"2010," they say now :-)Feb 26 22:58
schestowitzMicrosoft's stock is at the bottom lowFeb 26 22:58
schestowitz$16.42 at close < http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=msft >Feb 26 22:59
josei was also going to suggest "delay" but felt that fell under "quality" since that means it will stink badly when the original date comes up.Feb 26 22:59
schestowitzThey could release turd earlyFeb 26 23:01
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schestowitzVista 7 will suffer either way, but they know that they might as well not make it semi bakedFeb 26 23:02
schestowitzYou nicked someone's nickFeb 26 23:02
jose__jose is probably reserved i guessFeb 26 23:02
jose__i'm going to get back to some other things..Feb 26 23:04
schestowitzReserved. Sounds like a restaurant terminology.Feb 26 23:06
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schestowitzNovell at the top-left here: http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/02/state...Feb 26 23:09
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schestowitzhttp://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-nov-feb.h... " Jack Straw, who surely played a major role in B'liar's decision to join the invasion of Iraq, has used his current powers to conceal how that decision was made. This is known as "obstruction of justice" when anyone else does it. "Feb 26 23:21
schestowitzGah! "That UK offical must have been takng to Rahm Emanuel - i./e., let no good opportunity go to waste. The plan sounds good on the surface, but amounts to an un-needed preference. A bailout of sorts. F/OSS can stand on its own, without "no stinking badges."" http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.p...Feb 26 23:26
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schestowitz*LOL*Feb 26 23:28
schestowitzByfield wrote Go-OOO (three Os) http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/... he also dismisses BN as the "anti-Novell lobby" (his new word since last article)Feb 26 23:29
MinceRgnFeb 26 23:29
MinceRwatch out, he'll come back and complain about you pointing that out ;)Feb 26 23:30
[H]omerRoy ... FYI: https://wiki.blagblagblag.org/M...Feb 26 23:31
[H]omerMarathon six hour meeting in progressFeb 26 23:32
schestowitz"(07:23:57 PM) Homer: Agenda: packages ... what to add, what to depreciate (e.g. Mono)"Feb 26 23:36
schestowitz[H]omer: as an obvious remark, consider the fact that the FAT/TomTom case now serves you as ammunition against Mono, especially the FAT part.Feb 26 23:37
[H]omerNatch :)Feb 26 23:37
[H]omerlink?Feb 26 23:37
schestowitzHold on.Feb 26 23:37
[H]omerI've not been followingFeb 26 23:37
schestowitzhttp://www.consortiuminfo.org/standard...Feb 26 23:37
schestowitzIn short, Microsoft is suing TomTom for its support for FAT in Linux.Feb 26 23:38
schestowitzCronies shuffle: http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/ch...Feb 26 23:49
schestowitzHuh? Seed Design Series - Open Source Snobs < http://scienceblogs.com/clock/2... >Feb 26 23:53
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schestowitz"Symbiam Foundation" has become a new name and "front" to Nokia (attacking rivals without the attacks tracing back to Nokia): http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz...Feb 26 23:56
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wispygalaxyhi everyone!Feb 26 23:58
Balrogwhere is the source code? (for symbian) I asked already, but if it's open source, there has to be publically available source.Feb 26 23:58
BalrogHi wispygalaxyFeb 26 23:58
wispygalaxyhey, nice to meet youFeb 26 23:58
wispygalaxyis roy here?Feb 26 23:58
Balrogyes he isFeb 26 23:58
wispygalaxyok, thxFeb 26 23:58
Balrogor hw was 3 minutes ago :PFeb 26 23:58
Balroghe *Feb 26 23:58
wispygalaxyyes, he's been busy these days ;)Feb 26 23:59
wispygalaxyworking hard on his postsFeb 26 23:59

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Gemini Links 29/02/2024: Raspberry Pi Incus Cluster and Aya 0.5.0 Coming Soon
Links for the day
Links 29/02/2024: Layoffs at Apple, Expedia, and Electronic Arts
Links for the day
Gemini Links 29/02/2024: Web Enshittification and Firefox user-agents
Links for the day
Spiked Piece/Censoreed Piece: 'Microsoft Copilot is a gimmick', says top CIO
Issues relate to connectivity and cost
Enrico Zini, Mattia Rizzolo, Plagiarism & Debian
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
[Meme] Clergy of GNU/Linux (Corporations Like IBM)
Volunteers as powerless "followers" of companies that "harvest" their labour
There Will Be Lots More Apple Layoffs (Already Years in the Making)
The corporate media still tries to shape the narrative to prevent panic or delay market hysteria
Latest SUEPO (Staff Union of EPO) Report For The Hague Reveals EPO Does Not Obey Court Orders, Refuses to Allow Workers to Freely Talk to One Another
working in a place where communication itself is restricted
[Meme] The Oppression Will Continue Until EPO 'Quality' Improves
wonder why EPO morale is so low?
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, February 28, 2024
IRC logs for Wednesday, February 28, 2024
Outreachy, GSoC-mentors & Debian-Private may soon become public records in federal court
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 28/02/2024: Many War Updates and Censorship
Links for the day
Gemini Links 28/02/2024: Social Control Media Notifications and Gemini Protocol Extended
Links for the day
Links 28/02/2024: Microsoft the Plagiarist is Projecting, Food Sector Adopts Surge Pricing
Links for the day
Helping Microsoft 'Hijack' Developers (to Make Them Work for Microsoft, Not the Competition)
VS Code is proprietary spyware of Microsoft. Jack Wallen keeps promoting its use.
Gemini Links 28/02/2024: Groupthink and the 'Problem' With Linux
Links for the day
Android Rising (Windows Down to All-Time Lows, Internationally)
This month was a bloodbath for Microsoft
HexChat Looks for Successors to Keep IRC Growing
IRC is far from dead
[Meme] Just Make Him Happy
Y U no produce more monopolies?
End of a Long February
top 10 posts
[Meme] The EPO's Relationship With Patent Examiners
Nobody is "safe"
New Pension Scheme (NPS) at the European Patent Office Explained at the General Assembly
Investing in the future, or...
Donald Trump & FSFE Matthias Kirschner election denial
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, February 27, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, February 27, 2024