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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 4th, 2009 - Part 2



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DaemonFCYou fork it, you incur tons of additional maintenance costApr 04 03:54
DaemonFCfor little benefitApr 04 03:54
oiaohmAnd all the UNIX forks of BSD?Apr 04 03:55
oiaohmVendor locking so people cannot change out weights the maintenance costs at that stage.Apr 04 03:55
oiaohmNothing stops you from using 99.9 percent BSD code with a .1 percent custom userlock in patch.Apr 04 03:56
oiaohmSo the maintaince for gain is bugger all DaemonFCApr 04 03:56
oiaohmEven Windows contains some BSD code that MS has never ever published any alterations they have ever done on it.Apr 04 03:57
DaemonFCand they have that alreadyApr 04 03:57
DaemonFCit's called distributionsApr 04 03:57
oiaohmYou see distributions as unbreakable vendor lock in.Apr 04 03:58
oiaohmthey are not.Apr 04 03:58
oiaohmdo you know what a chroot in Linux allows you todo  DaemonFCApr 04 03:58
oiaohmBasically install another distribution inside your current 1.Apr 04 03:58
DaemonFCyeahApr 04 03:59
DaemonFCyou can do that in Solaris tooApr 04 03:59
DaemonFCand install CentOSApr 04 03:59
oiaohmBranded zonesApr 04 03:59
oiaohmYep that solaris added to try to slow there loss of market to linux.Apr 04 04:00
oiaohmDistributions biggest cause of lock in is the X11 server.Apr 04 04:00
oiaohmMostly due to X11 server poor design.Apr 04 04:00
oiaohmNew design addresses those problems.Apr 04 04:00
oiaohmThe time of the Linux Distribution lockin is coming to a end.Apr 04 04:01
oiaohmVirtualisation is one of the forces of unification.Apr 04 04:02
oiaohmThe other is what the Linux Standard Base is upto.Apr 04 04:02
oiaohmThe Linux Distribution mess always had a limited time frame.   When it started there was always though the would only be one Distribution in the end left standing.Apr 04 04:04
oiaohmThe idea of vendor lock in on Linux is nothing more than a trick.   BSD forks on the other hand its more than real.  Altered excutable formats syscalls and so on to the point of incompadibly with no documentation.Apr 04 04:06
oiaohmAnd people like you DaemonFC fall for it.Apr 04 04:07
_Hicham_oiaohm : is KMS available for 2.6.28?Apr 04 04:11
oiaohm_Hicham_: as a custom applied patch.Apr 04 04:11
_Hicham_and in 2.6.29 by default?Apr 04 04:12
oiaohmKMS alters kernel panic so it will be always displayed.Apr 04 04:12
oiaohm2.6.29 if you have intel card.Apr 04 04:12
oiaohmAnything else is a custom patch.Apr 04 04:12
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oiaohmBy 2.6.31 we should have all common cards with KMS.Apr 04 04:12
_Hicham_ATI still not supporting it?Apr 04 04:13
oiaohmATI will be supporting it.Apr 04 04:13
oiaohmIts a simple case of getting all the code up to the point its good enough to kernel merge.Apr 04 04:13
oiaohmVIA will be supporting it as well.Apr 04 04:14
_Hicham_wowApr 04 04:14
oiaohmNvidia could the the one out sider.Apr 04 04:14
oiaohmfirst the beApr 04 04:14
_Hicham_so plymouth will be available for all distros?Apr 04 04:14
oiaohmMaybe maybe not.Apr 04 04:14
oiaohmplymouth is not a required part for operation.Apr 04 04:14
_Hicham_i mean all distros can use it?Apr 04 04:16
_Hicham_i know it is not requiered...Apr 04 04:16
oiaohmIts choose to.Apr 04 04:16
oiaohmThey might choose something else that configures diffenetly to what plymouth does.Apr 04 04:17
_Hicham_it is the prettiest graphical boot for the momentApr 04 04:17
_Hicham_I think MS will copy itApr 04 04:17
oiaohmProblem is in future will it be.Apr 04 04:17
oiaohmthe best.Apr 04 04:18
oiaohmMS has taken away users means to change boot graphic _Hicham_Apr 04 04:18
oiaohmThinking Linux standard boot time is planed to get down to less than 5 seconds.Apr 04 04:18
oiaohmYou will not really be looking at the boot screen for long.Apr 04 04:18
_Hicham_the 5 seconds is still farApr 04 04:19
_Hicham_we are not there yetApr 04 04:19
oiaohmWe know what is in way.Apr 04 04:19
oiaohmIts just getting the code corrected.Apr 04 04:19
_Hicham_the patches done by Intel won't be merged soonApr 04 04:19
oiaohmYou can have 5 seconds today with patches that cause instablity.Apr 04 04:19
_Hicham_are these patches available?Apr 04 04:20
oiaohmfastboot branch of the Linux kernel.Apr 04 04:20
oiaohmThey are being altered to more stable form and slowly merged into the main kernel.Apr 04 04:20
oiaohmMost people have not noticed the slow but sure drop in the start up time of the main kernel before init starts.Apr 04 04:21
oiaohmA year ago it was over 14 seconds these days its under 7.Apr 04 04:21
_Hicham_the 2.6.29 is slowerApr 04 04:21
oiaohmIt has to get to 1.Apr 04 04:21
oiaohm2.6.29 is slightly faster in the to init process mesurement than 2.6.28Apr 04 04:22
_Hicham_so the init is the cause?Apr 04 04:22
oiaohmFilesystem alteration.Apr 04 04:23
oiaohmCleaned up one problem caused a slowdown on ext3Apr 04 04:23
_Hicham_it is very interesting to boot in 5 secondsApr 04 04:25
oiaohmBoot process is highly sentivie to lots of minor alteratins.Apr 04 04:25
oiaohmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7NxCM8ryF8  << boot in 5 secound including login _Hicham_Apr 04 04:27
_Hicham_i seen this about MoblinApr 04 04:28
_Hicham_so we can install Moblin on usual notebooks?Apr 04 04:28
_Hicham_or it is just for netbooks?Apr 04 04:28
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oiaohmModlin can be instaled on basically anything.Apr 04 04:29
oiaohmIts more of a research project of how far can you push Linux.Apr 04 04:29
_Hicham_did u try it?Apr 04 04:29
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oiaohmI have tried fastboot alterations with normal distributions.Apr 04 04:32
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schestowitzHeyApr 04 08:31
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amarsh04hi schestowitz... just ordered and picked up a new pc... have yet to install anything on itApr 04 09:46
schestowitzWhat will you install?Apr 04 09:47
amarsh04Debian amd64 unstableApr 04 09:48
PetoKrausgo archApr 04 09:48
PetoKraus:PApr 04 09:48
amarsh04a friend in .us has the same motherboard and reported no problems with itApr 04 09:48
amarsh04the motherboard disk supposedly includes "expressgate"Apr 04 09:49
amarsh04salesperson at the computer store was wearing a ubuntu t-shirt  (-:Apr 04 09:50
amarsh04I ordered it around noon, was told it would be ready mid-week and was called around 3pm to pick it upApr 04 09:52
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PetoKrausit's a slow day today, ain't itApr 04 11:19
schestowitzAnalyst: YouTube Will Lose Almost $500 Million This Year < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/... >Apr 04 11:25
schestowitzAnalyst: YouTube Will Lose Almost $500 Million This Year < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-googl... >. Well, at least they'll stay alive this way.Apr 04 11:26
PetoKrausi wish the'd dieApr 04 11:31
PetoKrausit'd take down flash as wellApr 04 11:31
PetoKrauswellApr 04 11:31
PetoKrausi always forget they are google'sApr 04 11:31
oiaohmThe html 5 support for direct videos most likely will have to be considered by google.Apr 04 11:35
PetoKrauswellApr 04 11:35
PetoKrausit'd be no good for themApr 04 11:35
oiaohmThat would cut youtubes bandwith usage.Apr 04 11:35
PetoKrauswell, maybe a bitApr 04 11:36
oiaohmEvery little bit counts.Apr 04 11:36
PetoKrausbut you would be able to abstract the data from the page more easilyApr 04 11:36
oiaohmSome videos on there are provided with download options already.Apr 04 11:37
oiaohmSo cutting out flash module to play and reduced download size of page.Apr 04 11:37
oiaohmIt would all add up.Apr 04 11:37
PetoKrauswellApr 04 11:38
PetoKrauswhat i think iwApr 04 11:38
PetoKraus*isApr 04 11:38
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oiaohmSilverlight has the same problem.Apr 04 11:39
oiaohmIdea that bandwidth costs nothing is going to come back and effect the ideas of flash and silverlight.Apr 04 11:40
PetoKrausit'd make it dead easy for other people to extract "video" tag onlyApr 04 11:40
PetoKrausand bypass all adsApr 04 11:41
PetoKrausthat's what i was getting toApr 04 11:41
PetoKraus:)Apr 04 11:41
PetoKrausi know there's youtube-dl now anywayApr 04 11:41
oiaohmBasically is not going to make a difference.Apr 04 11:42
oiaohmCurrent deals by google is embeded advertising in the video stream.Apr 04 11:43
oiaohmIe the stuff you cannot just simply use something like miro to download stuff direct.Apr 04 11:43
oiaohmAnd avoid ads.Apr 04 11:43
PetoKrausyeahApr 04 11:43
PetoKrausthat'd be goodApr 04 11:43
oiaohmBasically youtube will be come freetv.Apr 04 11:43
PetoKrausi'm too lazy to enable ads on pages i visitApr 04 11:44
PetoKrauslike phoronix, for exampleApr 04 11:44
schestowitzHere is my last coverage of the TomTom case, for now: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0...Apr 04 11:49
oiaohmLet the next wave begin.Apr 04 11:50
schestowitzoiaohm: if YouTube supports Ogg they can embed ads in the videosApr 04 11:50
schestowitzThink about it: give people Ogg files, hard-code some ads or whatever to sponsor thisApr 04 11:50
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oiaohmflv can be transcoded into Ogg without much trouble.Apr 04 11:53
PetoKrausyeahApr 04 11:57
PetoKrausmplayer ;)Apr 04 11:57
schestowitzI use ffmpegApr 04 12:01
schestowitzffmpeg2theora -p preview –sync video.flvApr 04 12:01
oiaohmBoy some strange and wacky things are starting to appear in linux kernel mailing list.   x86 disasmbler built into kernel.Apr 04 12:01
schestowitzWHat for? Kernel panic reports or something?Apr 04 12:05
oiaohmMain kernel maintainers asking same question.Apr 04 12:06
oiaohmTotal desciption for patch is x86 disasmbler api for kernel.Apr 04 12:07
oiaohmThat is it no suggesting where it would be used or how.Apr 04 12:07
oiaohmYes wacky.Apr 04 12:07
oiaohmSuppose had to start happening the list of items not merged is getting short.Apr 04 12:08
schestowitzThey should pass over KDE4 for Linus to merge into Linux, as well.Apr 04 12:13
schestowitzYou know how much Linus loves KDE4 (4.0)... they should mail him all the patches... which his pine client might choke onApr 04 12:14
oiaohmMost stuff on the not merged list that a kernel needs is the hard stuff to do.Apr 04 12:15
oiaohmLike proper real time os support.Apr 04 12:15
oiaohmI am finding it funny Lot of the people in Linux haters are trying to write Linux off as dead with no hope ever of getting desktop share.Apr 04 12:44
amarsh04I tried out the 2.6.26 code with realtime patch... the published stats for it were impressiveApr 04 12:52
oiaohmSo will be GEM with direct video card access for applications when it gets rolling.Apr 04 13:01
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MinceRgeekingsApr 04 13:18
PetoKrausnice link from Glyn Moody thereApr 04 13:20
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schestowitzPetoKraus: : which one? The "bad news"?Apr 04 13:33
PetoKrauswell, the google/microsoft oneApr 04 13:35
PetoKrausyou had it in news summary yesterdayApr 04 13:35
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schestowitzYes, I remember that. Microsoft loves also copyright for anything... unless it can misuse it. Right now it's busy with 'IPR' propaganda (against Google over content and Linux over code).Apr 04 14:30
PetoKrausi might do some linux evangelism on next saturdayApr 04 14:44
PetoKrausa customer told me he's interested in learning new thingsApr 04 14:44
PetoKrauswe shall see how he likes it.Apr 04 14:44
schestowitzWhy is this man promoting MS 'pseudopen source' and Mono wares from former Microsofters..? http://arstechnica.com/software/news...Apr 04 15:04
schestowitzFedora 11 has a nice wallpaper, but the rest looks similar: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2...Apr 04 15:06
schestowitzPetoKraus: promote something that does not contain Mono (e.g. Ubuntu)Apr 04 15:07
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Omar87Hi all.Apr 04 15:09
schestowitzGNOME is 'pulling a KDE4': Gnome answers Linux critics with 'big' vision plan < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/... >Apr 04 15:09
Omar87schestowitz: Hey.Apr 04 15:10
Omar87schestowitz: How's going?Apr 04 15:11
Omar87How's *it*Apr 04 15:11
schestowitzYo, all it wellApr 04 15:11
schestowitzJapan goes to the moon.. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/0...Apr 04 15:11
schestowitzLinux taking just 1 watt: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/N...Apr 04 15:16
schestowitzOmar87: see if you can vote for this one: http://www.fsdaily.com/Legal/Patents_Rou...Apr 04 15:19
schestowitziPhone 3.0 Beta Pwned! < http://www.itwire.com/content/... >Apr 04 15:21
schestowitzMicroblogging for activists? http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/... (Twitter on the front line)Apr 04 15:24
Omar87schestowitz: Is it Jay Freeman again?Apr 04 15:38
schestowitzI don't know :-(Apr 04 15:39
amarsh04I wouldn't mind 1 Watt Linux - could that run irssi and an ethernet port? (-:Apr 04 15:39
*amarsh04 notices the ethernet port on the I/O board of said deviceApr 04 15:42
Balrog_what about Jay Freeman.....?Apr 04 16:10
Balrog_the iPhone 3.0 beta? not this time. He's not doing the jailbreak, rather the installerApr 04 16:11
Balrog_(apt clone)Apr 04 16:11
schestowitzIsn't Apple going to crack down on him?Apr 04 16:30
PetoKrausschestowitz: ofcApr 04 16:30
schestowitzIt has history of doing some things like that before--going personalApr 04 16:30
Balrogso far they haven't.Apr 04 16:31
*schestowitz just spent like an hour on the phone...Apr 04 16:31
schestowitzBalrog: maybe they estimate PR damageApr 04 16:31
Balrogit would be in their best interest not to, I think.Apr 04 16:31
schestowitzLuckily, a lot of people give them flak when they do thisApr 04 16:32
Balrog_(yes, mainly because it would be a PR nightmare)Apr 04 16:32
schestowitzGoogle too. People no longer buy the "do no evil" defense" so cheaplyApr 04 16:32
schestowitzIIRC, Google's value now exceeds that of IBM. It's no longer little cuddly Google...Apr 04 16:32
schestowitzOr poor Apple whose business is at Microsoft's mercy..Apr 04 16:33
schestowitzThe PR nightmare situations prevent many things, such as SCO bullying PJ, Novell demanding that BN  removes mentioning of their trademarks, etc.Apr 04 16:33
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Omar87lol!Apr 04 16:55
Omar87A couple of days ago when I told a .NET and M$ fanboi at my college that I use Python he said: "Oh, but Python has died a long time ago!".. :DApr 04 16:56
Omar87What a pathetic ignorant. :)Apr 04 16:57
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_Hicham_Hi Roy!Apr 04 18:14
_Hicham_how r u doing?Apr 04 18:14
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PetoKrausOmar87: yeah, that's why i'm not studying CS anymoreApr 04 18:32
PetoKrausfull of ignorantsApr 04 18:32
schestowitzI'm backApr 04 18:33
schestowitzOmar87: tell your friend about that 'deal' company called Google, which uses Python very extensively for a lot of its operationsApr 04 18:34
schestowitz /s/deal/dead/Apr 04 18:34
_Hicham_were u at the gym?Apr 04 18:35
schestowitzIf Python is dead, then Google must have missed the memo. http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/... Watch how it jumped this yearApr 04 18:37
schestowitz_Hicham_: yesApr 04 18:37
schestowitzOmar87: the chart shows demand for Python skills in the UK.Apr 04 18:38
_Hicham_Google is emotionally related to PythonApr 04 18:38
_Hicham_Google loves PythonApr 04 18:38
schestowitzPython generates IRC logs for #boytcottnovellApr 04 18:39
schestowitzThis is days old: http://techczar.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/...Apr 04 18:39
schestowitzGoogle searches for holy grail of Python performance: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/n...Apr 04 18:39
schestowitzRecent: Python Fans Take Aim at the Enterprise < http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.p... >Apr 04 18:40
_Hicham_Python can beat Java easilyApr 04 18:40
schestowitzThe Evolution of Python 3 < http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/01/th... > Python >> MSFT. It will eat it for the FUD its boosters are spreading.Apr 04 18:40
_Hicham_Bruce Eckel himself loves PythonApr 04 18:40
schestowitzLet Ballmer mock GoogleApr 04 18:41
schestowitzWith his .NET drek :-) Python continues to devour Microsoft's market share.Apr 04 18:41
_Hicham_there is a Python Plugin for Visual StudioApr 04 18:41
schestowitz_Hicham_: Java and Python are differentApr 04 18:41
_Hicham_schestowitz : how?Apr 04 18:41
schestowitzFor scripting and processing that's simple Java is less suitableApr 04 18:41
schestowitzMicrosoft is trying to devour Python using .NET garbageApr 04 18:42
schestowitzSun try JPython.Apr 04 18:42
schestowitz*triedApr 04 18:42
_Hicham_Python can do whatever Java can doApr 04 18:42
_Hicham_in less codeApr 04 18:42
_Hicham_and easilyApr 04 18:42
_Hicham_It is just a marketing issueApr 04 18:43
schestowitzI'm not sureApr 04 18:43
schestowitzVMs in Python?Apr 04 18:43
schestowitzHow about building with reusable objects? Python is not OOP unless there some variant of it which I doubtApr 04 18:44
_Hicham_Python is OOPApr 04 18:44
_Hicham_u can reuse everythingApr 04 18:44
schestowitzhttp://ostatic.com/blog/as-rumors-swirl-ab... -< Apparently it's just an ad dealApr 04 18:45
schestowitzI thought of it as imperativeApr 04 18:48
schestowitzBut you're right, it's object oriented toApr 04 18:48
schestowitzIt's multi-paradigmApr 04 18:48
Omar87PetoKraus: So are you not sutdying CS?Apr 04 18:48
PetoKrausOmar87: chemistryApr 04 18:49
schestowitzBut I'm used to seeing it parsing stuff Apr 04 18:49
_Hicham_schestowitz : u under-estimated PythonApr 04 18:49
_Hicham_Python API is more powerful than Java'sApr 04 18:49
_Hicham_and remember, Python, is less code than JavaApr 04 18:50
schestowitzThat I knowApr 04 18:50
schestowitzBut...Apr 04 18:50
schestowitzIt seems to me like new programmers are taught Java for simplicityApr 04 18:51
_Hicham_Java is not simpleApr 04 18:51
_Hicham_it is very complicated compared to PythonApr 04 18:51
Omar87_Hicham_: At least not as simple as Python.Apr 04 18:51
Omar87_Hicham_: Exactly. :)Apr 04 18:52
_Hicham_to open a file, u need at least ten lines of codeApr 04 18:52
_Hicham_while in Python, it is one lineApr 04 18:52
balzacdon't forget, python is the language of choice for blender and gimpApr 04 18:52
balzacscripting languageApr 04 18:52
_Hicham_yesApr 04 18:52
Omar87;)Apr 04 18:52
_Hicham_and plugins tooApr 04 18:52
benJImanAnd thanks to ironpython you can run it on .net.Apr 04 18:52
_Hicham_Gnome uses it extensivelyApr 04 18:52
balzacgnome is looking better to me latelyApr 04 18:53
_Hicham_schestowitz : we are even with MSApr 04 18:53
_Hicham_they want us to do .NET, and we want them to do PythonApr 04 18:53
balzacfinding the emacs key-bindings already supported for default gnome text window behavior was niceApr 04 18:53
Omar87_Hicham_: About a month ago, a friend of mine challenged me that Python can handle extensive Video streaming for a large website as good as Java. :)Apr 04 18:53
balzacbut mono really has to goApr 04 18:53
Omar87can't*Apr 04 18:54
_Hicham_Omar87: personally, I find Java less attractingApr 04 18:54
_Hicham_though I used it a lotApr 04 18:54
Omar87_Hicham_: Same here.Apr 04 18:54
schestowitzmono is about containing devs in .nyetApr 04 18:54
Omar87_Hicham_: But I've never really used it before..Apr 04 18:55
schestowitzbridge wo windowsApr 04 18:55
_Hicham_schestowitz : we have to release a Python Plugin for MonoDevelopApr 04 18:55
_Hicham_that way we will be evenApr 04 18:55
_Hicham_we won't have to worryApr 04 18:55
benJImanMonodevelop already has good support for ironpython.Apr 04 18:56
_Hicham_greatApr 04 18:56
schestowitzbrbApr 04 18:59
_Hicham_okApr 04 18:59
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_Hicham_balzac : u just woke up?Apr 04 18:59
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_Hicham_there is a free python book available in Debian repos : sudo apt-get install diveintopythonApr 04 19:00
balzacno, just got to the officeApr 04 19:02
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balzacI live at my office, practicallyApr 04 19:03
balzacI need to do something about my incomeApr 04 19:03
balzacwho needs to get waterboarded?Apr 04 19:05
balzaclet's "aggressively interrogate" bush and cheney and find their swiss bank account digitsApr 04 19:05
balzacI need some money, my favorite strippers have bills to payApr 04 19:05
balzacLet's waterboard Rupert MurdochApr 04 19:07
balzacAnd feed Rush Limbaugh to hungry polar bearsApr 04 19:07
balzaccome on!Apr 04 19:07
balzacsorry, this belongs #politicsApr 04 19:07
balzac</rant>Apr 04 19:08
PetoKrausoh manApr 04 19:08
PetoKrausberlusconi ++Apr 04 19:08
balzache had a thought?Apr 04 19:08
PetoKraushe is amazingApr 04 19:08
PetoKrausItalian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has provoked criticism for describing Barack Obama as "young, handsome, and tanned".Apr 04 19:08
balzache's a buffoon, but apparently he did something decent?Apr 04 19:08
PetoKrausResponding to a reporter's suggestion that the remark might be misunderstood, he accused his opponents of not having a sense of humour.Apr 04 19:08
PetoKraus''God save us from imbeciles,'' he added.Apr 04 19:08
_Hicham_balzac : Bill Gates is still the RichestApr 04 19:09
balzac_Hicham_: Bill Gates is way down the list of trouble makersApr 04 19:09
balzacbut I want his market-share and revenueApr 04 19:09
PetoKrausi'd love to have such a politician in our countryApr 04 19:09
MinceRi want him to repay the damage he has caused (by running a generator or something)Apr 04 19:10
MinceRi want his assets to be taken from himApr 04 19:10
MinceRand i want him deadApr 04 19:10
_Hicham_If u get his market share, u will practically fuck all americaApr 04 19:10
_Hicham_u can get any stripperApr 04 19:10
*balzac sets mode +b MincerApr 04 19:10
MinceRnow you show your true colorsApr 04 19:11
balzacMinceR: don't be a bitchApr 04 19:11
balzacangstivist bitchassednessApr 04 19:11
balzacWishing death on Bill Gates is pure "angstivism".Apr 04 19:12
balzaccompletely uselessApr 04 19:12
MinceRbalzac: yes, being assured that he can't cause any more harm is certainly uselessApr 04 19:12
balzacin fact, worse than useless, and it negates the value of everything good you've ever said if you stand by such an outrageous commentApr 04 19:12
MinceRi'm sorry i've offended your favorite criminalApr 04 19:13
MinceR(or perhaps second favorite, right behind steve jobs)Apr 04 19:13
balzacmy favorite criminal may be MadoffApr 04 19:13
balzacbut Bill Gates is not nearly as bad as BushApr 04 19:13
balzacSome angstivist at a political meeting this weekend compared Mayor Bloomberg to HitlerApr 04 19:14
balzacAnd called him the worst mayor everApr 04 19:14
balzacI said it was bulls___Apr 04 19:14
balzacGuliani was worseApr 04 19:15
schestowitzbalzac: so if you pull a gal, you take her to the 'office' (practically)?Apr 04 19:15
balzacschestowitz: cleaner and nicer than my placeApr 04 19:15
schestowitzBefore or after?Apr 04 19:15
schestowitz:-Apr 04 19:16
PetoKraustouche :PApr 04 19:16
balzacI haven't had a girl since me and my last gf broke upApr 04 19:16
schestowitzI guess it's like RMSApr 04 19:16
balzacsince then, only strip clubs and a massage parlour - no happy endingApr 04 19:16
schestowitzJust don't grow a beardApr 04 19:16
schestowitzRMS lived in his office for many yearsApr 04 19:16
balzacjust not a long oneApr 04 19:16
schestowitzActually, many Microsoft employees lived in their officeApr 04 19:17
schestowitzSame with TurbolinuxApr 04 19:17
schestowitzSleeping in front of their desk or somethingApr 04 19:17
MinceRbalzac: oh, if someone isn't as bad as bush, he must be a saintApr 04 19:17
MinceRafter all, bush is a saint, isn't he?Apr 04 19:17
schestowitz:-)Apr 04 19:17
balzacMinceR: why don't you go ahead and wish death on someone scarier than Bill Gates?Apr 04 19:17
schestowitzSaint like holy sh*tApr 04 19:17
balzacHow about... Dick Cheney?Apr 04 19:18
MinceRbalzac: in case you didn't notice, we were discussing bill gates, not "someone scarier"Apr 04 19:18
balzacdo you wish he were dead?Apr 04 19:18
schestowitzBalrog: Dick Cheney will self desrtruct anywayApr 04 19:18
schestowitzHe has a weak heartApr 04 19:18
MinceRi don't know his crimes so well, but i think i wouldApr 04 19:18
balzacBush?Apr 04 19:18
MinceRsame thingApr 04 19:19
schestowitzIs it either OR?Apr 04 19:19
balzacdude, you live under a rock, apparentlyApr 04 19:19
MinceRif so, please tell me what you know about hungarian politicsApr 04 19:19
schestowitzMinceR: Cheney robbed AmericaApr 04 19:19
schestowitzHe used the invasion to pass money to his former companyApr 04 19:19
MinceRthen i'll hear your opinion about living under rocks and such things.Apr 04 19:19
balzacMinceR: I admire the guy who threw the eggs at BallmerApr 04 19:19
PetoKrausbalzac: you know, the US is not the center of the worldApr 04 19:19
schestowitzMinceR: in the US, World=USAApr 04 19:19
MinceRbalzac: i see how well you know what's going on in another countryApr 04 19:20
balzacI can tell you that I've enjoyed both sides of the river, Buda and PestApr 04 19:20
schestowitzAnd Palin was wrongly accused of thinking Africa  was a nationApr 04 19:20
PetoKrauswellApr 04 19:20
balzacthe coat I've for a couple years, been wearing I bought thereApr 04 19:20
MinceRschestowitz: yes, i knowApr 04 19:20
MinceRusians are full of themselvesApr 04 19:20
MinceRand their fucking joke of a countryApr 04 19:20
PetoKrausheheApr 04 19:20
PetoKraustanned president takes the leadApr 04 19:20
PetoKraus:PApr 04 19:20
MinceRand appreciating freedom only in name, not in practiceApr 04 19:20
schestowitzPetoKraus: he said this in Italian right?Apr 04 19:21
PetoKrausyeahApr 04 19:21
MinceRand pushing their newest policies on the rest of the worldApr 04 19:21
PetoKrausbut that guyApr 04 19:21
schestowitzHow does that TRNSLATE?Apr 04 19:21
PetoKrausno ideaApr 04 19:21
schestowitzI bet it's exaggeratedApr 04 19:21
MinceR(policies that were bought by megacorps in the usa)Apr 04 19:21
PetoKrausschestowitz: i don'tApr 04 19:21
schestowitzAnd you must listen to toneApr 04 19:21
PetoKrausit's berlusconiApr 04 19:21
PetoKraushe's got ballsApr 04 19:21
schestowitzHe could say this jokingly to Obama's face Apr 04 19:21
MinceReven if he's got balls, he's probably just another crookApr 04 19:21
schestowitzThat would be folksy... like Yeltsin and Clinton.Apr 04 19:22
schestowitzberlusconi is an arsgoleApr 04 19:22
schestowitz*holeApr 04 19:22
schestowitzCheck what he does on Intellectual MonopoliesApr 04 19:22
balzacyeah, let Berlusconi talk about Obama's "tan" with himApr 04 19:22
balzachehehApr 04 19:22
schestowitzSome sort of neo-facsismApr 04 19:22
PetoKrausand whatApr 04 19:22
schestowitz*fascismApr 04 19:22
balzacBerlusconi is a classic douche-bagApr 04 19:23
PetoKrausheheApr 04 19:23
schestowitzAnd they have corrupt procurement there, favouring PearlyG and ilk.Apr 04 19:23
PetoKrausi disagreeApr 04 19:23
PetoKraushe's got a styleApr 04 19:23
PetoKraushe's designer bag!Apr 04 19:23
balzachehehApr 04 19:23
schestowitzBerlusconi is Sarko's twinApr 04 19:23
schestowitzSeparated at birthApr 04 19:23
balzacthe skin of a designer bagApr 04 19:23
schestowitzStill connected by the mindApr 04 19:23
schestowitzSharing the same neurons, apparentlyApr 04 19:23
balzacMinceR: when was the last time you spent money on a hooker?Apr 04 19:24
PetoKrausit doesn't matterApr 04 19:24
PetoKrausthe neuronsApr 04 19:24
PetoKrausnot the hoookerApr 04 19:24
PetoKraus:PApr 04 19:24
schestowitzConsumer Interest Groups Ask Obama To Stop Appointing RIAA Lawyers < http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200... >Apr 04 19:24
PetoKrausyeah, i read thatApr 04 19:24
PetoKrauswankers.Apr 04 19:24
schestowitzPetoKraus: maybe to bothApr 04 19:24
schestowitzBiden and the MAFIAAApr 04 19:24
schestowitzDick Tracy JuniorApr 04 19:25
MinceRbalzac: i didn'tApr 04 19:25
balzacMinceR: I'm recommending you find a whore, because you've got way too much angst to effective as an activist.Apr 04 19:25
PetoKraushmmApr 04 19:25
MinceRbalzac: why don't you go back to your microsoft and apple fanboy friends and hug them?Apr 04 19:25
balzacI'm not even an activist anymoreApr 04 19:25
MinceRno, you're just a pathetic fanboyApr 04 19:25
PetoKrausoh godApr 04 19:25
PetoKraussince when are hookers relevant measure?Apr 04 19:26
PetoKrausof anythingApr 04 19:26
MinceRPetoKraus: it's the warped mind of a fanboy.Apr 04 19:26
PetoKrausnoApr 04 19:26
PetoKrausit's calledApr 04 19:26
PetoKrausretardationApr 04 19:26
MinceRyou never know what you're going to find.Apr 04 19:26
balzacMinceR: you're what is called a WATB in the "blogging" communityApr 04 19:26
MinceRsame thingApr 04 19:26
MinceRi was more specific, thoughApr 04 19:26
balzacWhiney-Assed Titty BabyApr 04 19:26
PetoKrausbalzac: just tell me you're "tanned" as wellApr 04 19:26
PetoKraus:PApr 04 19:26
MinceRbalzac: i don't care what labels you can apply to meApr 04 19:26
MinceRbalzac: nobody gives a fuck about your opinion.Apr 04 19:26
balzacMinceR: let's not make this too personalApr 04 19:27
MinceRbalzac: oh, now you don't want to make it personalApr 04 19:27
balzacI had to issue you a citation for "angstivism"Apr 04 19:27
MinceRafter making it personal?Apr 04 19:27
balzacActually, yes, let's make it more personalApr 04 19:27
MinceRor perhaps you think that you should talk shit and everyone else should just listen and applaud?Apr 04 19:27
MinceRgo fuck yourself.Apr 04 19:27
balzacMinceR: do you know who I am?Apr 04 19:27
balzacPaul GaskinApr 04 19:28
PetoKrausand?Apr 04 19:28
balzacwho are you?Apr 04 19:28
*DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellApr 04 19:28
PetoKrauswhy should you care?Apr 04 19:28
balzacbecause he's wishing violence or harm on Bill Gates every so oftenApr 04 19:28
balzacas far as I know, he could be a troll from NovellApr 04 19:28
PetoKrausyeahApr 04 19:28
PetoKrausan american lawyer is going to sue himApr 04 19:29
PetoKrausyou knowApr 04 19:29
PetoKraushungary is not a part of the US eitherApr 04 19:29
PetoKraus...Apr 04 19:29
balzache is like the guy at the back of the crowd who throws a bottleApr 04 19:29
PetoKrausi thought you realised that when you tried to sue the SwedesApr 04 19:29
DaemonFCif you have corrupted politicians, your problem is not MicrosoftApr 04 19:29
balzacSo, Mincer - what is it you're willing to say under your given name?Apr 04 19:30
DaemonFCMicrosoft is one of the symptomsApr 04 19:30
DaemonFC:)Apr 04 19:30
balzacCome one now...Apr 04 19:30
balzaccome on...Apr 04 19:30
schestowitzFRAUD: Take-Two Interactive Software settles SEC suit < http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-... > Microsoft, Apple and Novell may have done the same thing.Apr 04 19:30
balzacno "bitchassedness"Apr 04 19:30
DaemonFCThrow them out, replace them with politicians that won't be bought by MicrosoftApr 04 19:30
DaemonFCproblem solvedApr 04 19:31
balzacthe guy who threw the eggs at steve ballmer represents Hungary quite wellApr 04 19:31
balzache threw eggsApr 04 19:31
balzache didn't wish deathApr 04 19:31
DaemonFCwhat? He represents a bunch of childish pranksters who refuse to strike at the root of the problem?Apr 04 19:31
DaemonFCthat's not saying much for HungaryApr 04 19:31
PetoKrauswellApr 04 19:32
balzacwell, Mincer just went away to cry, I supposeApr 04 19:32
PetoKrausi don't think you know what are you talking aboutApr 04 19:32
PetoKrausbut after allApr 04 19:32
PetoKrausyou've got an MAApr 04 19:32
PetoKraus...Apr 04 19:32
PetoKraus:PApr 04 19:32
DaemonFCThrowing eggs really solved the problem, Hungary will stop peddling Microsoft now....oh wait, it hasn'tApr 04 19:32
balzacMincer, type something so we know you're not cryingApr 04 19:32
schestowitzThe issues of Microsoft corruption in Hungary came upApr 04 19:33
schestowitzIt was in the mediaApr 04 19:33
schestowitzEggs were merely a catalystApr 04 19:34
DaemonFCrightApr 04 19:34
DaemonFCthe guy made an ass out of himselfApr 04 19:34
schestowitzIt was captured from tweo camerasApr 04 19:34
DaemonFCand nobody in their right mind will take him seriouslyApr 04 19:34
schestowitzBefore they rewarded the criminal with a special honourApr 04 19:34
schestowitzDaemonFC: not him, othersApr 04 19:34
schestowitzThe guy who checked eggs encouraged investigationApr 04 19:35
schestowitzSome people did thatApr 04 19:35
schestowitzThey spoke independently of himApr 04 19:35
DaemonFCThe guy that threw a shoe at George W. Bush made me laugh, I hate Bush, but it didn't fix any of the stuff that Bush fucked upApr 04 19:35
DaemonFCdid it?Apr 04 19:35
schestowitzMurdoch Accuses Google/Yahoo of Copyright Theft < http://industry.bnet.com/media/1... >Apr 04 19:36
schestowitzDaemonFC: what would you propose instead/Apr 04 19:36
DaemonFCat that point, even shooting him wouldn't have solved anything thoughApr 04 19:36
schestowitzThat was a relatively friendly (symbolicc) protestApr 04 19:36
schestowitzNot peacefulApr 04 19:36
schestowitzBut not corporalApr 04 19:36
schestowitzEarlier today I watched on television the riots in GermanyApr 04 19:37
schestowitzOver the Afghanistan convoyApr 04 19:37
DaemonFCWe live in a fairly perverse world, bad things happen and the maqjority of people are pretty stupidApr 04 19:37
schestowitzI reckon they use the 'election' as an excuse to send more troopsApr 04 19:37
DaemonFCthe politicians play at the stupidity of the majorityApr 04 19:37
DaemonFCand when they get inApr 04 19:37
DaemonFCthey execute the will of a minorityApr 04 19:37
schestowitzAlso, One can be sure that they are there to ensure people vote the 'right way'Apr 04 19:37
schestowitzOtherwise they'll get punished somehow (e.g. strangulation) until they vote 'correctly'Apr 04 19:38
schestowitzThis was done a lot in South AmericaApr 04 19:38
DaemonFCit's a secret ballot electionApr 04 19:38
schestowitzYesApr 04 19:38
schestowitzSecret as in "Secret services"?Apr 04 19:38
schestowitzj/kApr 04 19:38
DaemonFCSome peoples hatred of the United States goes way beyond any possible explanationApr 04 19:39
DaemonFCand they act like their government isn't fucking shit up proportional to their size and relative influence in the worldApr 04 19:39
DaemonFCcause I guarantee it isApr 04 19:40
schestowitzLatest attack on the Internet: Senate Committee Ponders Cyber Security Bill  < http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nf/2... >Apr 04 19:40
schestowitzIt's not a US problemApr 04 19:40
DaemonFCBut I think the US just makes a bogeyman for their particular fuck upsApr 04 19:40
DaemonFCeasier to point the fingerApr 04 19:40
schestowitzI have nothing against the US and I have family thereApr 04 19:40
schestowitzthe US!presidencyApr 04 19:40
schestowitzThe country is not its authorityApr 04 19:41
schestowitzAnd there is great disparity between people and the elite that tames themApr 04 19:41
schestowitzSo to blame a 'country' is a weird thing to do because the population rarely has much to do with policiesApr 04 19:41
schestowitzLots of examples re: healthcare, finance, patents, militaryApr 04 19:42
DaemonFCMy tax money pays for the bombs dropped on Iraq. If I don't pay taxes I go to prison for a long time.Apr 04 19:42
schestowitzThe "US" (mostly some companies there) is mostly a scapegoatApr 04 19:42
DaemonFCI have been coerced into paying for this against my conscience.Apr 04 19:42
schestowitzThat's the power of a consent system, and it is the reason it is massively effectiveApr 04 19:43
balzacThere's a very strong case for not paying taxesApr 04 19:43
schestowitzA system that daemonises moralityApr 04 19:43
DaemonFCThe system has run amok and they use those resources to hold anyone that objects to what they edo hostage.Apr 04 19:43
balzacluckily, most of my earnings were 1099Apr 04 19:43
balzacso I didn't pay much yet.Apr 04 19:43
DaemonFCThey put those funds into welfare and public projects so that on some level you depend on the system that is fucking you overApr 04 19:44
DaemonFCB-)Apr 04 19:44
MinceRbalzac: die in a fire, retard.Apr 04 19:46
DaemonFCThe argument between the Republicans and Democrats is not whether to put tax money into wasteful public spending and welfareApr 04 19:46
DaemonFCit's how to waste itApr 04 19:46
balzacMinceR: you hate retards?Apr 04 19:50
balzacyou're a real haterApr 04 19:50
balzacwhat's your f___ing name?Apr 04 19:50
MinceRbalzac: yes, i hate your kindApr 04 19:50
MinceRof retardApr 04 19:51
MinceRi don't have a "f___ing name", and other kinds of names are none of your business.Apr 04 19:51
balzacwhat is my kind? the kind who doesn't hide behind a pseudonym?Apr 04 19:51
MinceRalso, you're cluttering the channel with your trolling, so quit itApr 04 19:51
balzacyou're accusing me of trolling?Apr 04 19:51
MinceRindeedApr 04 19:51
balzacMinceR: let's hear from youApr 04 19:52
balzacI'll write less and give you spaceApr 04 19:52
balzacI've got work to do todayApr 04 19:52
MinceRwhy only me?Apr 04 19:52
MinceRdo you believe this channel belongs to the two of us?Apr 04 19:52
balzacbecause you're the one who is unknownApr 04 19:52
MinceRfuck you.Apr 04 19:53
balzacno. fuck yourself.Apr 04 19:53
balzacnow go ahead as if I'm not hereApr 04 19:54
balzac-_-Apr 04 19:54
MinceRperhaps your friends in kindergarten find that comeback snappy. i don't.Apr 04 19:54
balzacnevermind me, MincerApr 04 19:54
MinceRnow go ahead as if you weren't here.Apr 04 19:54
balzaclet's hear your opinions about anything except for meApr 04 19:55
PetoKrausschestowitz: how's the weather down in manchaster?Apr 04 19:55
*PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection)Apr 04 20:01
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellApr 04 20:02
schestowitzPetoKraus: nice here.Apr 04 20:02
PetoKrauswe had almost tanning weather two days agoApr 04 20:03
schestowitzMinceR: balzac is with the Good TeamApr 04 20:04
MinceRhe's concealing that very wellApr 04 20:04
schestowitzWhy bark up the wrong tree? Because balzac wants Bush punished before Gates?Apr 04 20:04
schestowitzThey can take turnsApr 04 20:04
MinceRthat's not what he saidApr 04 20:04
schestowitzI agree with balzac . Bush should go firstApr 04 20:04
MinceRhe said that gates shouldn't be punished because bush and cheney shouldApr 04 20:05
schestowitzMinceR: no, he's in other sites too. He's strongly pro-FSApr 04 20:05
schestowitzMinceR: trueApr 04 20:05
MinceRwell, he said what he saidApr 04 20:05
schestowitzThem firstApr 04 20:05
schestowitzMore urgentApr 04 20:05
schestowitzWhere life was at stakeApr 04 20:05
MinceRi didn't say bush and cheney shouldn't be punishedApr 04 20:05
schestowitzBush kills people only with bad engineeringApr 04 20:05
schestowitzLike hospitals becoming botnetsApr 04 20:05
MinceRyou mean gatesApr 04 20:06
balzacalso, 100 members of our congress should be criminally prosecuted before GatesApr 04 20:06
schestowitzApart from that, he ruins families' livesApr 04 20:06
MinceR:)Apr 04 20:06
schestowitzBy criminally destorying companies like NetscapeApr 04 20:06
MinceRi don't think we need a waiting list for thisApr 04 20:06
schestowitzAnd then he funnels this into his Rockefeller-esque scam to make even more moneyApr 04 20:06
balzaccivil suits make more sense against M$Apr 04 20:07
schestowitzbalzac: they owned the judgeApr 04 20:07
schestowitzJackson called them "Criminals"Apr 04 20:07
schestowitzGuess what they did?Apr 04 20:07
schestowitz(to him)Apr 04 20:07
balzacRoy, i'm not on the "Good Team" anymore. I recently veered sharply toward "evil".Apr 04 20:07
schestowitzWhat type of evil?Apr 04 20:08
balzacno more activism, now entrepreneurialismApr 04 20:08
schestowitzThe whole pimp trash?Apr 04 20:08
schestowitzentrepreneurialism =  big word, no substanceApr 04 20:08
schestowitzLike the ismsApr 04 20:08
balzacI want moneyApr 04 20:08
schestowitzIt's the means for achieving goalsApr 04 20:09
schestowitzNot the goal, not the endApr 04 20:09
schestowitzWe all hhumans are the sameApr 04 20:09
schestowitzWe share the same fate, without exceptionApr 04 20:09
balzaccam-girls are not whores, so bringing free software and free media codecs for cam-girls (and whoever else), is not any kind of pimpingApr 04 20:09
schestowitzYou can't take money into the grave. Well, technically you can, but you know what i mean...Apr 04 20:09
*_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.")Apr 04 20:09
*tessier has quit ("leaving")Apr 04 20:09
balzacbut I wrote on change.gov that prostitution should be decriminalized, even though I'm not interested in that business as an employer, but only as a customerApr 04 20:10
schestowitzbalzac: don't create conditions for girls to sell themselvesApr 04 20:10
MinceRso that's why you keep talking about itApr 04 20:10
schestowitzThat's morally wrongApr 04 20:10
schestowitzRemove the conditions under which objectification is neededApr 04 20:10
balzacschestowitz: unregulated capitalism creates desperation - that is the bigger problem.Apr 04 20:11
schestowitzWomen activists worked really hard to abolish sexism.. and being treated liek toolsApr 04 20:11
MinceRi suspect that objectivication comes from a source you can't regulate with lawsApr 04 20:11
schestowitzDon't misplace activism of one kind to promote abolishment of another typeApr 04 20:11
balzacthere is such a thing as the possibility of ethical transactions of sex for moneyApr 04 20:11
MinceR(people's way of thinking, sexism, lack of egalitarianism)Apr 04 20:11
schestowitzbalzac: why change the subject?Apr 04 20:11
MinceRs/ivi/ifi/Apr 04 20:11
balzacwhat is the subject you had in mind?Apr 04 20:12
schestowitz"transactions of sex for money" WTF??Apr 04 20:12
balzac<@schestowitz> balzac: don't create conditions for girls to sell themselvesApr 04 20:12
schestowitzYes, offer them decent jobsApr 04 20:12
schestowitzNot conditions under which money is made indecently.Apr 04 20:13
balzacwell, they should be free to sell their sexual services too, if they're of the age of legal consent.Apr 04 20:13
schestowitzYou could make a flawed argumentApr 04 20:13
schestowitzLike... if a kid is hungry in the street and you can abuse him for food, does that make it ethical? Because he was hungry?Apr 04 20:13
schestowitzThe solution is in removal oif the conditions under which this is neededApr 04 20:13
schestowitzAnother example would involve warApr 04 20:14
balzackid? (no legal consent) him? (i don't swing that way).Apr 04 20:14
balzacyou're changing the subject nowApr 04 20:14
schestowitzSome troops face commands to kill or be jailed (or --at worse--lynching)Apr 04 20:14
schestowitzbalzac: same subject, different severityApr 04 20:14
schestowitzOr different type of victimApr 04 20:14
balzacroy, you're really moving the goal posts aroundApr 04 20:14
schestowitzPredatory it is to sway people towards something they don't want thtough strangulationApr 04 20:15
schestowitzYou could torture a person to the point of false admissionApr 04 20:15
schestowitzDoes that make the 'rendition' OK?Apr 04 20:15
schestowitzbalzac: here's what I prposeApr 04 20:15
schestowitzIf there's need to human trafficking, then try to eliminate the needApr 04 20:15
balzacwith properly regulated capitalism (ie democratic socialism), nobody would be so desparate that they would endanger themselves to make a little moneyApr 04 20:16
schestowitzNot to actualise itApr 04 20:16
balzacthat's idealApr 04 20:16
schestowitzYesApr 04 20:16
schestowitzThen go for ittApr 04 20:16
balzacschestowitz: I'm not talking about human trafficking, which I find abhorrent and frightening.Apr 04 20:16
balzacOne of my business ideas involves making free software available which can be used by cam girlsApr 04 20:17
balzacthe license says the software is used without warranty, plenty of disclaimers, available at no cost.Apr 04 20:17
schestowitzWhy cam /girls/?Apr 04 20:18
schestowitzAnd not cam carpenter?Apr 04 20:18
schestowitzOr cam "puppy"?Apr 04 20:18
schestowitzOr cam intellectual?Apr 04 20:18
balzacRoy, my interest is in cam-girls and the gaming communityApr 04 20:18
schestowitzWhat does the technology have to do with girls specifically?Apr 04 20:18
balzacthe two of those togetherApr 04 20:19
balzacmeApr 04 20:19
balzaci'm the one who puts them together (hopefully).Apr 04 20:19
schestowitzBut the technology is genericApr 04 20:19
balzacschestowitz: I think you know enough details to see that I've done my homeworkApr 04 20:19
schestowitzSome losers already combined both: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=...Apr 04 20:20
balzacI'm not un-ethical, nor foolishApr 04 20:20
schestowitzI knowApr 04 20:20
schestowitzSo a clarification was worthwhileApr 04 20:20
balzacit was worthwhileApr 04 20:20
schestowitzEnterprenuer and activist/FS person are not mutually axclusiveApr 04 20:20
schestowitzYou can be bothApr 04 20:20
balzacThe guy from Craigslist has to seriously contemplate these issuesApr 04 20:20
schestowitzBeing a pig is not a prerequisite of doing businessApr 04 20:21
schestowitzA guy who fixes a machine is not doing unethical thin gsApr 04 20:21
schestowitzMaybe with the exception of machines that, unlike computers, say... fire cluster bombs.Apr 04 20:21
MinceRcluster bombs aren't necessarily unethicalApr 04 20:23
balzacI'd say there's a 99.999% chance that any given cluster-bomb manufacturer is, in fact unethical.Apr 04 20:23
balzacmaybe that's not enough 9sApr 04 20:24
MinceRpossiblyApr 04 20:24
MinceRbut manufacturing cluster bombs in itself isn't the reasonApr 04 20:24
schestowitzMinceR: they are impreciseApr 04 20:27
schestowitzCollision with innocent people is likelyApr 04 20:28
MinceRwhich means you must be very careful in selecting the target areaApr 04 20:28
schestowitzMinceR: there are better ways to handle bad peopleApr 04 20:28
schestowitzBombs have residuesApr 04 20:28
schestowitzLike childrenApr 04 20:28
MinceRwell, it depends on what situation you're inApr 04 20:28
schestowitzNot really.Apr 04 20:29
schestowitzChildren are innocentApr 04 20:29
schestowitzAdults can be naiveApr 04 20:29
MinceRsome bad people have really powerful armies at their commandApr 04 20:29
MinceRhow can you handle them?Apr 04 20:29
schestowitzExample?Apr 04 20:29
MinceRbush did, now obama does (though i don't know how trigger-happy he is)Apr 04 20:30
schestowitzUS spendings on military by far outweigh those expenditure of the whole world combined.Apr 04 20:30
MinceRso does the chinese governmentApr 04 20:30
MinceRnorth koreaApr 04 20:30
MinceRrussiansApr 04 20:30
MinceRetc.Apr 04 20:30
schestowitzChina brainwashed the youngestersApr 04 20:30
schestowitzThere are better solutions than making bombsApr 04 20:31
schestowitzBombs are for impotentsApr 04 20:31
MinceRyes, the usa spends a lot on it. so what can you do if they threaten you? ask them nicely to stop?Apr 04 20:31
schestowitzLook at the Arms RaceApr 04 20:31
schestowitzWhhat was ever gained?Apr 04 20:31
schestowitzDisarmament?Apr 04 20:31
MinceRinformation warfare exists, of courseApr 04 20:31
schestowitzMinceR: well, the worse you can do is resistApr 04 20:31
MinceRbut i doubt it's the dominant method yetApr 04 20:31
schestowitzThen they call you "enemy combatant"Apr 04 20:32
MinceRand to resist you must arm yourselfApr 04 20:32
schestowitzSo a kid whose family home was torn tom pieces with his parents can't do anythingApr 04 20:32
balzacObama bowed to King Abdullah of Saudi ArabiaApr 04 20:32
schestowitzElse he justifies the belief that his family was "terrorist"Apr 04 20:32
balzacIt was 6 inches too low that he bowed, in my opinionApr 04 20:32
MinceRbeing considered a "terrorist" changes little about the fact that your family was torn to pieces.Apr 04 20:33
balzachttp://www.americanthinker.com/blog/200...Apr 04 20:33
schestowitzbalzac: he bows to oilApr 04 20:33
balzacI would not have gone below the guy's eye level, but I wouldn't have wanted to tower over him eitherApr 04 20:33
schestowitzWho wouldn't?Apr 04 20:33
balzacyepApr 04 20:33
MinceRi wouldn'tApr 04 20:33
balzacbut why doesn't he make friends with Hugo Chavez?Apr 04 20:33
MinceRbut then i'm not a politicianApr 04 20:33
schestowitzChavez is skepticalApr 04 20:34
schestowitzRightly soApr 04 20:34
schestowitzLook what the government did to his country before.Apr 04 20:34
schestowitzAnd it's still the same governmentApr 04 20:34
balzacI declared Hugo Chavez my president in 2006Apr 04 20:34
schestowitzDifferent PR personaApr 04 20:34
balzacnow, Obama is my president, but I remain an entity above nationalism or loyalty to any governmentApr 04 20:34
MinceRi don't have a president, but sadly the country i'm living in doesApr 04 20:35
schestowitzbalzac: maybe you're on 'the' listApr 04 20:35
MinceRbalzac:Apr 04 20:35
MinceRoopsApr 04 20:35
MinceRbalzac is a turrist? :>Apr 04 20:35
balzacwell, given that Obama is so much taller and more politically-powerful than King Abdullah, it didn't cost him much.Apr 04 20:36
MinceRi don't know what bowing means exactlyApr 04 20:36
balzaci'm a french-ticklistApr 04 20:36
balzacnever once contemplated terrorismApr 04 20:36
MinceRthat doesn't matter to the usian governmentApr 04 20:36
MinceRif you think differently, you're a turristApr 04 20:37
balzacMinceR: Bush is not occupying our government anymore.Apr 04 20:37
MinceRi knowApr 04 20:37
MinceRbut are obama's people better?Apr 04 20:37
MinceRunder the surface, i mean?Apr 04 20:37
balzacwithout hesitation - yes.Apr 04 20:37
MinceR(and disregarding their blatant subservience to megacorps -- that's a separate issue)Apr 04 20:38
balzacwell, I have some really refined opinions regarding corporate responsibility, economic policy and such.Apr 04 20:39
balzacbut I have to pay my bills and buy a light jacket because the weather is warming upApr 04 20:39
balzacthe jacket I bought in Budapest is too warm now, and my hoodie doesn't have a zipper, so it's uncomfortableApr 04 20:39
*DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving")Apr 04 20:40
*DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellApr 04 20:45
*schestowitz looks for a relevant talkApr 04 20:45
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/results?search_typ...Apr 04 20:48
schestowitzCan't find specific video, but she made the point very clearly that "either you're a Bushi or a terrorist"Apr 04 20:48
balzacBush said that himselfApr 04 20:49
balzac"either you're with us or you're with the terrorists"Apr 04 20:49
schestowitzReally?Apr 04 20:49
schestowitzLet me google itApr 04 20:49
balzacI turned it around, calling it "Bush's undead talking points".Apr 04 20:49
balzacEither you're with us (impeachment advocates) or you're with Bush.Apr 04 20:50
schestowitzhttp://www.electronicbookreview.com/thr... "2. Either You're With Us or You're With the Terrorists"Apr 04 20:50
balzacBut Obama turns out to have been against impeachment because he had presidential ambitionsApr 04 20:50
balzacand I don't think he's with BushApr 04 20:50
balzacWe'll see what Eric Holder does next...Apr 04 20:51
schestowitzMany results come up: http://www.darleenclick.com/weblog/archiv... http://yc2.net/speech.htmApr 04 20:51
schestowitzSo Jacques Shirack (spelling) is a terrosist thenApr 04 20:51
MinceRChirac?Apr 04 20:51
schestowitzYesApr 04 20:51
schestowitzHere is the complete quote: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. "Apr 04 20:52
schestowitz--Sept. 20, 2001Apr 04 20:52
schestowitzA week laterApr 04 20:52
schestowitzDid he write this speech himself?Apr 04 20:53
schestowitzor did this pass the filter of spooks and PR people?Apr 04 20:53
schestowitzIs it a personal policy or a broader one of the regime? Where "terrorism" (inspiring fear) equated to disagreement..Apr 04 20:54
balzacRoy, I drove them crazy on DailyKos with "Bush's Undead Talking Points".Apr 04 20:54
schestowitzThat would be totalitarianApr 04 20:54
schestowitzTo say that it's a violation to disagreeApr 04 20:54
schestowitzDemocracy is based on disagreementsApr 04 20:55
schestowitzBut maybe it's taken out of context anyway.Apr 04 20:55
balzac"There are those among us who think that by ignoring the threat of war criminals, they will be safe. We will never be safe so long as anyone provides safe harbor and gives *succor* to war criminals."Apr 04 20:55
MinceRthey aren't the prime example of democracy, no matter how often and how vigorously assert to be it.Apr 04 20:55
balzacgratuitous use of the word "succor"Apr 04 20:55
balzacWaterboard Bush was an original slogan I coinedApr 04 20:59
balzac"Angstivism" belongs to me as wellApr 04 20:59
balzacI'm good at sloganeering and brandingApr 04 20:59
schestowitzbalzac: some criminals live in FloridaApr 04 21:00
schestowitzLike the guy who blew up airport/s in CubaApr 04 21:00
schestowitzHe lives happily in Miami AFAIKApr 04 21:00
schestowitzBecause he attacked the "them"Apr 04 21:01
balzacwe'll see what happensApr 04 21:01
balzacbut regardless, activism is only a hobby to me now. Only for entertainment, not out of any sense of urgency.Apr 04 21:03
balzacmoney is my urgent problemApr 04 21:04
Balrog_then don't waste it.Apr 04 21:04
balzacI generally don'tApr 04 21:04
balzacstrippers are worth every dollarApr 04 21:04
Balrog_not in my book.Apr 04 21:04
schestowitzNovell seems to be crumbling pretty fast: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/04/nove... http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/04...Apr 04 21:05
schestowitzBalrog: +1Apr 04 21:06
schestowitzbalzac: what made you glorify the habit?Apr 04 21:06
schestowitzYou choose sleaze over accommodation? Pardon me for being critical.Apr 04 21:06
Balrog_I have better things to use my money forApr 04 21:07
Balrog_the FSF could always use some :PApr 04 21:07
schestowitzUse some what? Strippers? j/kApr 04 21:10
Balrog_money!Apr 04 21:10
schestowitzFSF's libido has not taken over its urge for freedom, fortunatelyApr 04 21:11
balzacRoy, years of not getting the poontang i wanted and deserved, thanks to reactionary feminist doctrine.Apr 04 21:12
balzacas well as generally conservative morality in society which is based on the time before condoms, birth control, and abortions existedApr 04 21:13
balzacso, I'm an atheist, still on board with women's liberation principles (real feminism, not reactionary angstivist "feminism")Apr 04 21:14
balzacand I have a better time in strip clubs than in most bars. the music and entertainment is much better.Apr 04 21:14
schestowitzBlander powa: http://www.youtube.com/w...Apr 04 21:15
schestowitz*BlenderApr 04 21:15
balzacand I don't feel i'm in a high-school prom, filled with hipsters who are discovering themselvesApr 04 21:15
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?...Apr 04 21:16
schestowitzhttp://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archi...Apr 04 21:16
balzacof course, once I find another gf, I'll spend more time in restaurants and bars with good live musicApr 04 21:16
balzacand i'll only bring her to a strip club if she's comfortable thereApr 04 21:16
schestowitzStrip clubs won't help you make relationships, IMHOApr 04 21:17
balzacI'm not worried about itApr 04 21:17
balzacI have no shortage of friends, no urgency for a long-term relationship, money is my only concernApr 04 21:18
schestowitzMinceR: more info about your surroundings' corruption: http://www.h-online.com/open/Hungarian-g...Apr 04 21:18
schestowitzMicrosoft: "we're open source, TOO!!!11" :-) :-)Apr 04 21:18
Balrog_if money is a concern, don't waste itApr 04 21:18
balzacwhat is this, everyone judge balzac-day?Apr 04 21:18
MinceRwe'll see where it leadsApr 04 21:18
schestowitzBalrog: exactlyApr 04 21:18
schestowitzMinceR: better than before, methinksApr 04 21:19
Balrog_there's a difference between needs and wantsApr 04 21:19
schestowitzSame with OBAMAA. Could be worse.. WAS worse.Apr 04 21:19
MinceRbalzac: protip: if you don't want to be judged, don't attack people unprovoked.Apr 04 21:19
MinceRschestowitz: indeedApr 04 21:19
balzacMinceR: there's still a little tear in the corner of your eyeApr 04 21:19
balzacstiff upper lip, ole chap!Apr 04 21:19
MinceRbalzac: there's still a lot of shit in youApr 04 21:19
balzacwrong - just dropped a deuceApr 04 21:20
schestowitzEnough :-)Apr 04 21:20
schestowitzWhy infighting?Apr 04 21:20
MinceRbalzac: yet you're still full of it.Apr 04 21:21
schestowitzhttp://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollyw...Apr 04 21:21
balzacMinceR: almost everyone has some organic matter in their digestive tractApr 04 21:22
balzacwhat, are you one of those people who gets colonics?Apr 04 21:22
schestowitz:-( 'Poor' Murdoch. The Internet is competing with him. http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/03...Apr 04 21:23
MinceRbalzac: i see your knowledge of slang is severly limitedApr 04 21:23
MinceRs/rl/rel/Apr 04 21:23
schestowitz"Posteriors are puckering throughout the Alberta oil patch as long-overdue climate and green economy legislation moves through the US Congress. The provincial government has responded by hiring Washington lobbyists at $500,000 per year to try and ensure whatever bill gets passed is so watered down that does not impact the dirtiest oil on Earth."Apr 04 21:24
balzacohhh snap!Apr 04 21:24
schestowitzhttp://www.desmogblog.com/spin-o... Lobbying for death of the planet! ;-) ??Apr 04 21:24
schestowitzObama on exceptionalism < http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/arc... >Apr 04 21:26
schestowitzAn ad deal is apparently being misinterpreted as twitter selling out. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009...Apr 04 21:32
balzacEvery time some online "community" gets big enough to be commercialized, there will be angstivists who cry out about "selling out".Apr 04 21:34
schestowitzyo balzac, you heard of this right? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30030756/ (Sources: 14 killed in N.Y. rampage)Apr 04 21:34
balzacIf you want an online community that won't sell out, you'll have to pay taxes.Apr 04 21:34
schestowitzI saw it on TV earlierApr 04 21:34
MinceRdamn angstivists, they should just get on the bench, grab the paddles and put the shackles on alreadyApr 04 21:35
schestowitzbalzac: no, it's the question of who you sell /to/Apr 04 21:35
balzacMinceR: I'm on the side of the stated goals of many "angstivists" or activists who get angsty. I'm just offering my consulting in the manner of a psychiatrist to help them understand themselves.Apr 04 21:36
schestowitzGoogle must be one of the scariest expansionist out there on the Web nowadays. Startups have love/hate relationship with Google (buy us, don't defeat us)Apr 04 21:36
schestowitzpsychiatrist often need a psychiatristApr 04 21:36
schestowitzThat's why they go study the prefessionApr 04 21:37
MinceRbalzac: oh, you agree with the activists, you're just looking for a way to look down on them and call them namesApr 04 21:37
MinceRi see.Apr 04 21:37
schestowitzThey seek help and knowlwedgeApr 04 21:37
balzacwell, since I'm not a professional, I don't subject myself to peer review from any professional psychiatrist.Apr 04 21:37


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