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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 6th, 2009 - Part 2


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_Hicham_they were the first to support KMSMay 06 02:05
oiaohmKMS is low level tech.May 06 02:06
oiaohmopengl is userspace tech.May 06 02:06
oiaohmIts having all the parts.May 06 02:06
_Hicham_but KMS is affecting OpenGL, no?May 06 02:06
_Hicham_if I activate KMS, OpenGL windows freeze the systemMay 06 02:07
oiaohmThat sounds like DRI1 driver trying to operate with KMS.May 06 02:07
_Hicham_yesMay 06 02:08
oiaohmOr DRI 1 opengl trying to operate with KMS.May 06 02:08
_Hicham_that won't work?May 06 02:08
oiaohmYep.May 06 02:08
oiaohmYou need all DRI2 support parts to operate with KMS.May 06 02:08
oiaohm+ KMS support in X11 server.May 06 02:08
_Hicham_so I should upgrade to xserver 1.6?May 06 02:08
oiaohmProblem here last time I looked for ATI there was not a complete set of parts yet.May 06 02:09
oiaohmNo matching opengl.May 06 02:09
oiaohmSo 2d only worked.May 06 02:09
_Hicham_what kernel was that?May 06 02:10
_Hicham_2.6.29?May 06 02:10
oiaohmopengl is a userspace part.May 06 02:11
oiaohmmesa3d project.  Still has not formully released the version required for DRI2.May 06 02:11
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_Hicham_they have no release schedule?May 06 02:12
oiaohm2.6.30 parts I have been looking at recently and its not released yet either.  Might have been in 2.6.29May 06 02:12
oiaohmMiddle of year was the planed release scheduleMay 06 02:12
oiaohmBasically you are early.May 06 02:12
_Hicham_I must go to sleepMay 06 02:15
_Hicham_gnMay 06 02:15
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oiaohm  << Ok someone must have been borred.May 06 02:17
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the_mad_hatterRoy, you there?May 06 02:23
the_mad_hatterWell nice work on the Intel patents article.May 06 02:24
the_mad_hatterNow, I have a big problem. I heard a rumor that is so wacky, that I'm hesitant to pass it on, but you've got better contacts than I do, and may be able to find out if it's real, or if someone has done too much LSD.May 06 02:25
the_mad_hatterWhat I heard, is that a school board has forbidden mention of Creative Commons licenses. The Board in question is supposed to be in Maryland.May 06 02:26
the_mad_hatterI have no idea if this has really happened, or if it's total bullshit. I think it's bullshit myself, but life is stranger than fiction.May 06 02:26
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twitter 06 07:38
twitterI need a $35,999,999 pillow so that Depression 2.0 does not intrude upon the lifestyle I would like to have.May 06 07:39
twitterha ha, Intel is not really "caught up" to AMD on VMs after all 06 07:40
twitterso XP mode and Vista 7 really will have a "Vista capable" moment.May 06 07:41
schestowitzThat's the wrong numberMay 06 07:41
schestowitz $35,999,999,000May 06 07:41
schestowitzBoA need to be made bankruptMay 06 07:41
schestowitzLet them failMay 06 07:41
schestowitzThis is not capitalism if they can't failMay 06 07:42
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schestowitzThis is a system going bankruptMay 06 07:42
schestowitzSo it makes the poorer suffer firstMay 06 07:42
schestowitzThe fat cats just store up more reserves before the meltdownMay 06 07:42
twitterOh, I was being modest.  I don't need billions, just millions.May 06 07:44
twitterI suppose I need to be greedier to get my bailout.May 06 07:44
twitter John C. Yoo and Jay S. Bybee attempt to get away with torture. 06 07:45
twitterthe argument against prosecution is ludicrous.  it essentially is, "the US government will cease to function if we punish those who broke the law in the sickest and most disgusting ways."May 06 07:46
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twitterin reality, the US will cease to be the US if it's officers are not bound by it's laws.May 06 07:48
schestowitzThe US is out of controlMay 06 07:55
schestowitzThey just let those who corrupted it for ages get handed loansMay 06 07:56
schestowitzGet money from China, give it to the rich and their enterpriseMay 06 07:56
schestowitzGuess who will need to be slaved to pay China back for decades....May 06 07:56
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twitterI'm afraid your analysis is correctMay 06 08:03
twitterthat is bad news for everyoneMay 06 08:03
twitterthat the US will sink beneath Chinese tyranny.May 06 08:04
iwmw 06 08:04
twitterthe victory over Soviet communism lasted less than 20 yearsMay 06 08:04
twitterheh, M$ does not have to pay for domain names.  every "typo" lands you on live searchMay 06 08:06
twitterthis includes "incomplete" addresses, such as instead of ""May 06 08:06
twitterthe search result usually contains a link to the page you actually wanted.May 06 08:07
twitterhow's that for innovation?May 06 08:07
twittertwitter is sleepy, must rest.  gnMay 06 08:07
schestowitzMicrosoft: where crime meets computingMay 06 08:09
schestowitzThe story they love telling is that they are the responsible adults who will protect you, so if you don't rescue them, then horrible things will happen. I heard this explanation before.May 06 08:15
MinceRgeekingsMay 06 08:21
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oiaohmI really should do up a Map of the PR game.May 06 08:28
schestowitzThat sorta existsMay 06 08:32
schestowitzThere are tools for that srot of stuffMay 06 08:32
oiaohmI was not meaning a full map of the players.   A map of how the game is played.May 06 08:34
schestowitzOhMay 06 08:37
schestowitzI see...May 06 08:37
schestowitzVisualising it?May 06 08:37
schestowitzI can't quite envision itMay 06 08:38
oiaohmMore of a simplified form so it can be envisioned.May 06 08:40
schestowitzSomone must have done itMay 06 08:43
schestowitzA few textual section and diagramsMay 06 08:43
schestowitzownage: 06 08:56
oiaohmThe diagram shows something sad that the people putting the money in can be the very ones being attacked by it.May 06 09:00
oiaohmSomething the PR world normally does not like to publish.May 06 09:00
schestowitzYes, that's a well known thingMay 06 09:02
schestowitzPeople funding their coffins basicallyMay 06 09:02
schestowitzIn a metaphorical sense.May 06 09:03
schestowitzIt's more like the example of asking someone to dig a while that later becomes a graveMay 06 09:03
schestowitzOr like Gates Foundary telling taxpayers to fund the pharmas that make money from their illnessMay 06 09:03
schestowitzIn other case, it's the people who pay to be deceivedMay 06 09:04
schestowitzit's well understood that people fund PRMay 06 09:04
schestowitz20% of the cost of merchandise (estimated, in the US, on average) is for the very same marketing to leads us to productsMay 06 09:04
schestowitzLike brandsMay 06 09:04
oiaohmDonating to a charity could be Donating to a PR firm.May 06 09:06
oiaohmNow if you don't have enough PR money yourself you sometimes make up some kind of sob story and hope a group with money buys it so you can attack your competion.May 06 09:07
oiaohmLevel of evil in this mess is past what most people dream.May 06 09:07
oiaohmYet its suprisng a simple diagram when you remove all the duplicationMay 06 09:13
schestowitzPart 2: 06 09:23
schestowitzYesMay 06 09:23
schestowitzI recently learned about trade warsMay 06 09:23
schestowitzLike daemonising foreign goodsMay 06 09:24
schestowitzUsing labels and sob storiesMay 06 09:24
schestowitzWith feel-good lab elsMay 06 09:24
schestowitzMicrosoft has some anti-Google groupsMay 06 09:24
schestowitzNot the one we discussed yesterdayMay 06 09:24
schestowitzWired exposed themMay 06 09:24
schestowitzIt's usually privay orientedMay 06 09:24
schestowitzMicrosoft finds a vector for attacking GoogleMay 06 09:24
schestowitzThen it created 'charitable' foundation to protect privacyMay 06 09:25
schestowitzThey spin in the pressMay 06 09:25
schestowitzand also daemonise Google among diplomats and in the pressMay 06 09:25
schestowitzGood documentary about PR: 06 09:26
schestowitzApple power brick sparks lawsuit 06 09:30
schestowitzClarke at the Reg is still boosting MS. Argh.May 06 09:33
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_Hicham_Hi oiaohmMay 06 09:51
MinceR_Hi cham_May 06 09:51
schestowitz"I've been noticing that when I see references to this story, I'm likely to see an "Anonymous" poster claiming to be from Extremadura, post a statement to the effect that the FOSS developments in Spain has been so poorly managed that Windows will look good. But there's never any details given, and it smells very astro-turfish -- does anyone here know anything?"May 06 10:00
schestowitz 06 10:00
schestowitzSpanish Government May be Breaking the Law with Microsoft. European Commission Should Investigate. May 06 10:00
_Hicham_MS is helping out hereMay 06 10:01
_Hicham_with "cheap" Vista licensesMay 06 10:01
_Hicham_and providing Visual Studio for free to professorsMay 06 10:02
oiaohmProblem is all these cheep give aways are directly hitting MS bottom line.May 06 10:03
_Hicham_but I say to them : "Hey Billie, fuck you, I won't even port my programs to your platform"May 06 10:04
_Hicham_who want better software must switch to LinuxMay 06 10:04
_Hicham_who want better hardware support must switch to LinuxMay 06 10:05
_Hicham_closed source OSes are obsoleteMay 06 10:05
oiaohmSoftware development firm who cannot afford coders.May 06 10:05
oiaohmIs a dead firm.May 06 10:05
_Hicham_Mr Stevie once said : "Developers, Developers,Developers"May 06 10:06
_Hicham_after he said : "Advertisers, Advertisers,Advertisers"May 06 10:07
_Hicham_now he is saying : "Please give some money"May 06 10:07
iwmwi'm pretty sure there were lawyers alsoMay 06 10:07
_Hicham_"I am begging you, don't let us die"May 06 10:07
_Hicham_but people are bringing out their dicks, not to fuck them, just to pee on themMay 06 10:08
schestowitz"Dvorak was widely in print.  I no longer have access to old articleMay 06 10:10
schestowitzdatabases, but if you or other contacts have access it should be fairlyMay 06 10:10
schestowitzeasy to dig up the original article with a bit of searching:May 06 10:10
schestowitz"Back in the mid-1990s, PC Magazine columnist John C.May 06 10:10
schestowitzDvorak wrote something curious about this operatingMay 06 10:10
schestowitzsystem. He said he knew of an easter egg present in CP/MMay 06 10:10
schestowitzin the late 1970s that caused Kildall's name and aMay 06 10:10
schestowitzcopyright notice to be printed. Very early versionsMay 06 10:10
schestowitz(presumably before the 1.0 release) of DOS had this sameMay 06 10:10
schestowitzeaster egg. This of course screams copyright violation."May 06 10:10
schestowitz -"May 06 10:10
schestowitzcan anyone help?May 06 10:10
schestowitz"Developers, Developers,Developers" as before  "Advertisers, Advertisers,Advertisers"May 06 10:11
schestowitz*wasMay 06 10:11
_Hicham_doesn't matterMay 06 10:12
_Hicham_Devs do not do big efforts out thereMay 06 10:12
_Hicham_they are stealing other people's codeMay 06 10:12
_Hicham_adding some crappy GUI of their ownMay 06 10:13
_Hicham_and then throwing it to peopleMay 06 10:13
_Hicham_to make them enjoy BSODMay 06 10:13
_Hicham_oh my beloved BSOD, when I am concentrated on sthg and you come out like a ghostMay 06 10:16
_Hicham_while I am enjoying lsass vulnerabilities and svchostMay 06 10:16
_Hicham_did u test firefox 3.1 out there?May 06 10:17
iwmwthere's 3.5b4May 06 10:19
_Hicham_did u test it?May 06 10:20
oiaohmBSOD is something MS got right.May 06 10:20
oiaohmOk close to right.May 06 10:20
_Hicham_really?May 06 10:20
oiaohmYou are not sitting there wondering if the machine has crashed or not.May 06 10:20
_Hicham_u prefer it to kernel flashing lights?May 06 10:20
iwmwwill test 3.5b4 at homeMay 06 10:20
oiaohmIts straight in your face.May 06 10:20
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oiaohmLinux kernel panic flashing lights on keyboard can be the only clue other than lack of movement.May 06 10:21
_Hicham_will KMS offer a BSOD for Linux?May 06 10:21
oiaohmKMS is being added to Linux to give a BSOD like effect.May 06 10:21
iwmwwhat's kmsMay 06 10:21
_Hicham_greatMay 06 10:21
_Hicham_now we can have a windowish experience inside LinuxMay 06 10:22
oiaohmDifference is Linux kernel is going to use closer to plain english so users standard a sporting chance to understand why it died.May 06 10:22
oiaohmKMS is a feature being added to the Linux kernel.  Kernel Mode Switching.   Basially controls what mode you video card is in iwmwMay 06 10:22
oiaohm_Hicham_: BSOD was predated by the the amiga Guru Meditation.May 06 10:23
oiaohmIts not even a New MS feature.May 06 10:23
oiaohmIts mostly that X11 was basically hacked on to linux/unix/bsd that something equal did not exist for them _Hicham_May 06 10:24
_Hicham_because of compatibility issues with old UnixMay 06 10:24
_Hicham_Linux must stop being a clone of UnixMay 06 10:25
oiaohmNo./May 06 10:25
_Hicham_Unix compatibility should disappearMay 06 10:25
oiaohmAll remianing Unixs are picking up KMS alterations.May 06 10:25
_Hicham_I don't see that Linux should stay compatible with UnixMay 06 10:25
_Hicham_Linux should move awayMay 06 10:26
oiaohmIts a little hard not to.May 06 10:26
_Hicham_and stop being a cloneMay 06 10:26
schestowitzSteve (Jobs): Developers, Developers, Developers… Get the Hell Out 06 10:26
_Hicham_it is easierMay 06 10:26
oiaohmThinking that Linux syscalls are officaly Unix standard syscalls.May 06 10:26
schestowitzCan a BSOD BSDOD?May 06 10:26
oiaohmCurrently its the other way _Hicham_May 06 10:26
schestowitzI think it's somrthing MS got rightMay 06 10:26
_Hicham_Linux was following Unix because it was dominantMay 06 10:26
schestowitzWhat if there's an exception in BSOD and it crashes?May 06 10:27
oiaohmUnix is staying in line with Linux at moment _Hicham_May 06 10:27
schestowitzThat's like a universe being sucked onto itselfMay 06 10:27
_Hicham_now Linux is more powerfulMay 06 10:27
oiaohmYep roles have reversed _Hicham_May 06 10:27
oiaohmWho is following who has reversed in a lot of areas.May 06 10:27
_Hicham_compatibility breaks shouldn't be a problemMay 06 10:27
_Hicham_it is u who is saying thatMay 06 10:28
_Hicham_ur own wordsMay 06 10:28
schestowitzWhat if there's an oops in kernel oops?May 06 10:28
_Hicham_think of a new design of kernel and gccMay 06 10:28
oiaohm_Hicham_: there is a problem with breaking compadbility with a standard.May 06 10:28
oiaohmThe ammount of stuff you would have to change.May 06 10:28
_Hicham_Linux is the standardMay 06 10:29
oiaohmLinux standard is based on posix standard.May 06 10:29
oiaohmShared with all Unix's and BSD's.May 06 10:29
_Hicham_POSIX is oldMay 06 10:29
oiaohmAnd windows API's are somehow magically new.May 06 10:29
oiaohmPOSIX was only updated a short time ago _Hicham_May 06 10:30
_Hicham_when?May 06 10:30
_Hicham_Win32 API is fucking weirdMay 06 10:31
_Hicham_and heavyMay 06 10:31
_Hicham_to open up a single window you have to write 70 lines of C codeMay 06 10:31
iwmwfor sureMay 06 10:31
_Hicham_and MFC adds a big overheadMay 06 10:32
iwmwwhat about wtlMay 06 10:32
_Hicham_you have to load mfcxx into memoryMay 06 10:32
_Hicham_which will map to msvcrtMay 06 10:32
oiaohmLast posix update was published was 2005 we are due another for 2010.May 06 10:33
oiaohmNote MS posix compadiblity is way before that.May 06 10:33
oiaohmPosix is not a standard set in stone it does change.May 06 10:33
_Hicham_Linux must not be crippled by standardsMay 06 10:34
oiaohmIts not.May 06 10:34
_Hicham_standards do not always meet coding requirementsMay 06 10:34
_Hicham_sometimes we need to do lots of hacks just to meet standardsMay 06 10:35
_Hicham_Linux must be the standardMay 06 10:35
_Hicham_I mean, Linux must set standardsMay 06 10:35
oiaohmThere is a problem here.  With posix that is not normally true.May 06 10:35
_Hicham_how?May 06 10:36
oiaohmposix defines base interfaces.May 06 10:36
oiaohmDoes not forbid adding extras.May 06 10:36
oiaohmIf you are building cross platform you will follow posix.   if not you may choose to use platform dependant code.May 06 10:37
oiaohmLinux Standard Base.  Contains a base of posix with a lot of extentions.May 06 10:37
_Hicham_fuck cross platform codeMay 06 10:37
_Hicham_it is crippling devsMay 06 10:38
_Hicham_we just need code for LinuxMay 06 10:38
_Hicham_see Firefox' exampleMay 06 10:38
_Hicham_it runs better on WindowsMay 06 10:38
oiaohmGood reason.May 06 10:38
oiaohmGcc cannot optmise to save itself.May 06 10:38
MinceRff targets windows primarilyMay 06 10:39
_Hicham_we need to concentrate on LinuxMay 06 10:39
oiaohmAnd msvc on windows can optmise better than gcc.May 06 10:39
oiaohmWe need to fix the complier.May 06 10:39
oiaohmfor firefox to get better.May 06 10:39
_Hicham_Intel is participating to gcc developmentMay 06 10:39
oiaohmHopefully the evils of gcc get fixed.May 06 10:40
oiaohmCross platform between mac os x Linux BSD Solarias and other Unix's is fairly simple due to the posix standard.May 06 10:40
oiaohmPorting to windows does cost a lot of work.May 06 10:41
MinceRexcept for osx using a completely different gui?May 06 10:41
MinceRtoolkits help thoughMay 06 10:41
oiaohmYou can still use X11 on osxMay 06 10:41
oiaohmYes it looks shockly bad but it works.May 06 10:41
oiaohmNote firefox on windows runs better than firefox on OS X as well _Hicham_ .   Linux had a filesystem error that made Firefox run slow.May 06 10:43
_Hicham_which filesystem? ext3?May 06 10:44
oiaohmWithout cross platform the filesystem flaw could have went unnoticed.May 06 10:44
oiaohmext3 and a few others.May 06 10:44
oiaohmCase were with posix its not much work to be cross platform over all developer cost is not much.   Crossing to windows api and back is down right expensive.May 06 10:46
oiaohmposix world you can pick up more coders working on the application than the cost to be cross platform.May 06 10:46
oiaohmJust by supporting more platforms.May 06 10:46
oiaohmThe idea that cross platform is bad in the posix worlds is more often than not wrong.May 06 10:47
_Hicham_so you are saying that ntfs is not having this flaws?May 06 10:48
oiaohmOS X filesystem did not have the flaw.May 06 10:49
oiaohmNiether does BSD default.May 06 10:49
oiaohmNeither does ZFS under solarias.May 06 10:49
oiaohmOut of all the posix OS's Linux has the slowest running Firefox.May 06 10:49
oiaohmPlease note BSD and solarias can run Linux binaries.May 06 10:50
_Hicham_does ext4 correct this?May 06 10:50
oiaohmThere is a correction comeing for ext3 and ext4.May 06 10:50
oiaohmOrder of operation and locking both are causing the slow down.May 06 10:51
_Hicham_do u recommend using ext4?May 06 10:52
oiaohmNot until atleast 2.6.30 that is not released yet.May 06 10:53
oiaohmLot of posix applications are called cross platform even that they don't support Windows.May 06 10:55
_Hicham_Windows shouldn't be supportedMay 06 10:55
_Hicham_we must kill WindowsMay 06 10:56
_Hicham_instead of supporting itMay 06 10:56
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oiaohmThere is a place for cross platform.May 06 10:57
oiaohmJust they may not be a place for platforms that are complex to do cross platform support for  like Windows.May 06 10:57
_Hicham_cross platforming to Windows is full of headachesMay 06 11:01
_Hicham_even with cross platform toolkitsMay 06 11:01
oiaohmPosix to posix is simple.May 06 11:01
_Hicham_I think that we should cross platform the Destkop Environment as wellMay 06 11:02
_Hicham_Gnome should follow KDE on thisMay 06 11:02
_Hicham_and applications should depend on KDE Windows and Gnome WindowsMay 06 11:03
_Hicham_that should ease the Windows executionMay 06 11:03
_Hicham_RedHat's Cygwin is doing a great jobMay 06 11:03
_Hicham_but it is not enoughMay 06 11:04
oiaohmDon't prase Cygwin anywhere near me.May 06 11:04
oiaohmI have been threw it source code.May 06 11:04
oiaohm  Is another group going after a interface wrapper.May 06 11:04
_Hicham_I know that it is not a good map between Unix calls and Windows callsMay 06 11:05
_Hicham_but it was the first initiativeMay 06 11:05
oiaohmIts not the mapping.May 06 11:05
oiaohmIts the lack of mapping.May 06 11:05
oiaohmSo you endup with lots of code between you and the OS so you end up very slugish.May 06 11:06
oiaohmThis is also partly gcc fault again.May 06 11:07
oiaohmIf focus need to be put anywhere in the posix world in a hurry its gcc.May 06 11:07
_Hicham_that is what is done nowMay 06 11:07
_Hicham_Intel hopefully will speed up gcc developmentMay 06 11:08
oiaohmIts not going to be fast.May 06 11:09
oiaohmLot of bad things have happened inside the gcc code base.May 06 11:09
_Hicham_more effort is going inside gcc nowadaysMay 06 11:10
_Hicham_more corporate firms are supporting gccMay 06 11:10
_Hicham_companies start to feel the urge to fix gccMay 06 11:10
oiaohmThere are a lot of hacks to gcc that have to be fixed correctly.May 06 11:10
schestowitzMicrosoft’s Latest Lie Attack Against GNU/Linux and ODF < >May 06 11:11
_Hicham_gcc can even be redesignedMay 06 11:11
oiaohmCore design for gcc is not that bad.May 06 11:11
oiaohmIts all the code rot on top.May 06 11:11
oiaohmIt had 1 major design error no link time optmisiation.May 06 11:12
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mib_0s7jfdwhat's this?May 06 11:12
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_Hicham_I think that multithreading optimization can be addedMay 06 11:13
_Hicham_it is not that bigMay 06 11:13
_Hicham_plus Intel will hopefully contribute from some of its icc code baseMay 06 11:13
oiaohmmultithreading is pointless if you don't have no link time optmisation to split the threads up accross the complete program.May 06 11:16
oiaohmLink time optimisation is very much a key stone to optimise programs correctly.May 06 11:17
oiaohmWithout it you cannot.May 06 11:17
_Hicham_hopefully it will be done in the next yearsMay 06 11:18
oiaohm  Its under way.May 06 11:18
oiaohmIf lucky maybe end of year.May 06 11:19
oiaohmIf not llvm might get there first.May 06 11:19
schestowitz"I have a nagging suspicion Microsoft might shoot down this trial balloon before it expands into a full-blown marketing disaster. Acer and Intel, for example, are already complaining that Windows 7 Starter Edition simply won't sell." 06 11:22
oiaohmStarter is going to be a disaster.May 06 11:23
oiaohmSo far not one netbook maker has said they will ship it.May 06 11:23
oiaohmMost have said they will stay with XP.May 06 11:24
oiaohmOr go to Linux.May 06 11:24
oiaohmEven Windows 7 starter is too heavy on resources.May 06 11:24
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_Hicham_why people stick to Windows?May 06 11:26
oiaohmIts what they know.May 06 11:27
oiaohmMost people are trained to fear anything different.May 06 11:27
_Hicham_I try to make people use Linux in my classroom, but they do not want toMay 06 11:29
_Hicham_they can't even seem to know how to browse their folders in LinuxMay 06 11:29
iwmwyou better show them how cool linux isMay 06 11:30
_Hicham_which is really weirdMay 06 11:30
oiaohmIt is not.May 06 11:30
iwmwthey will migrate themselvesMay 06 11:30
_Hicham_I already doMay 06 11:30
oiaohmThey are trained to fear.May 06 11:30
oiaohmUnder windows do the wrong thing it BSOD's.May 06 11:30
oiaohmexploring is punished.May 06 11:30
iwmw_Hicham_: then show them how in a better way you do smth that they do with windowsMay 06 11:30
_Hicham_I tried times and times againMay 06 11:31
oiaohmI normally break the fear on windows before introducing linux.May 06 11:31
_Hicham_I even give them pirated software that runs on LinuxMay 06 11:31
iwmwthen they are just limitedMay 06 11:31
_Hicham_commercial pirated softwareMay 06 11:31
oiaohmDid you break there fear of crashing the machine _Hicham_May 06 11:32
_Hicham_for example : MATLABMay 06 11:32
_Hicham_yesMay 06 11:32
_Hicham_as they always see me running LinuxMay 06 11:32
_Hicham_for daily useMay 06 11:32
oiaohmWhere they exploring applicatiosn before you indroduced Linux.May 06 11:32
oiaohmIe trying new applications on windows without fear.May 06 11:32
_Hicham_some don't even want to try Firefox on WindowsMay 06 11:33
_Hicham_it is fucking weirdMay 06 11:33
oiaohmExactly.May 06 11:33
_Hicham_I just gave up on themMay 06 11:33
oiaohmYou have moved too far too soon.May 06 11:33
_Hicham_Linux people should be more aggressiveMay 06 11:33
_Hicham_and force Windows to go downMay 06 11:33
_Hicham_no more gentle wayMay 06 11:33
oiaohmIf they will not try firefox or openoffice... abiword...May 06 11:33
oiaohmOn windows.May 06 11:34
oiaohmWhen you get them on Linux they know nothing.May 06 11:34
oiaohmSo they have strange interface.May 06 11:34
oiaohmand strange software.May 06 11:34
_Hicham_they all stick to fucking MS Office 2007May 06 11:34
oiaohmso they go back to fear.May 06 11:34
oiaohmAnd go back to what they know.May 06 11:34
oiaohmSo you fail.May 06 11:34
_Hicham_a professor was teaching us LaTeX with a pirated softwareMay 06 11:35
_Hicham_!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????May 06 11:35
oiaohmIts the same thing.May 06 11:35
oiaohmFear.May 06 11:35
_Hicham_that is why I say : Open Source should stop developing for WindowsMay 06 11:35
oiaohmThat don't help fight fear.May 06 11:35
_Hicham_no more Open Source programs for WindowsMay 06 11:36
oiaohmSo they will stick with commerical.May 06 11:36
oiaohmNo win that path.May 06 11:36
_Hicham_better focus on more important things than cross platformingMay 06 11:36
oiaohmIts method.May 06 11:36
oiaohmI guess lot would not even use 7-zipMay 06 11:36
_Hicham_they will stay with commercial even with cross platformingMay 06 11:36
_Hicham_7-zip have choosen the wrong way with MFCMay 06 11:37
oiaohmYou are not getting my question.May 06 11:37
_Hicham_what is ur question?May 06 11:37
_Hicham_please Steve Ballmer?May 06 11:37
iwmw_Hicham_: in university we were always taught with pirated softwareMay 06 11:37
oiaohmIf these people fear using different applications for different tasks.May 06 11:37
iwmwon every subjectMay 06 11:37
oiaohmThere is no way for them to go to Linux.May 06 11:38
_Hicham_"We want to see all of the Open Source innovation on our Platform"May 06 11:38
oiaohmYou will find they are like stuck with 1 burning software.May 06 11:38
oiaohm1 office suit.May 06 11:38
_Hicham_that is not a solutionMay 06 11:38
oiaohmBasically 1 of everything including OS.May 06 11:38
_Hicham_the radical solution isMay 06 11:38
oiaohmPeople like that cannot be moved in there current mind state.May 06 11:38
_Hicham_bribe computer vendors to ship LinuxMay 06 11:39
oiaohmThere are particular things Openoffice can do faster and simpler than MS office.May 06 11:39
_Hicham_FSF should be more aggressiveMay 06 11:39
_Hicham_we shouldn't explain to peopleMay 06 11:39
oiaohmJust like firefox's extentions let it do things IE cannot.May 06 11:39
_Hicham_no explanations for peopleMay 06 11:39
_Hicham_we need actionsMay 06 11:39
oiaohmBreaking the fear requires the right approce.May 06 11:40
oiaohmIts like gimp vs photoshop.May 06 11:40
_Hicham_we don't have to break their fearMay 06 11:40
iwmwyou won't break the fear with aggressive actionsMay 06 11:40
_Hicham_it is all about forcingMay 06 11:40
oiaohmYes gimp does not beat photoshop everywhere but it does in some areas..May 06 11:40
_Hicham_like pushing hardware vendors to not support WindowsMay 06 11:40
oiaohmOnce the fear is broken introducing Linux goes over well.May 06 11:40
*mib_o94uh2 (i=cbce4332@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 11:41
_Hicham_what do u think if Nvidia and ATI stopped supporting Windows?May 06 11:41
oiaohmThey will just explore and say I like that and I hate that and they will be talking about both OS's.May 06 11:41
_Hicham_what do u think if game developers stopped developing for Windows?May 06 11:41
_Hicham_what do u think if adobe stopped developing flash for Windows?May 06 11:41
oiaohmDid Mac users leave just because there software droped.May 06 11:42
_Hicham_tell meMay 06 11:42
mib_o94uh2"what do you think if pigs could fly?"May 06 11:42
oiaohmThat line you are on will not work.May 06 11:42
_Hicham_Mac users are more aware than Windows usersMay 06 11:42
oiaohmFear will lock them in.May 06 11:42
*mib_o94uh2 is now known as uda_May 06 11:42
oiaohmNot all Mac users.May 06 11:42
*uda ( has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 11:42
oiaohmYou don't understand the Fear that is the problem.May 06 11:42
*uda_ has quit (Client Quit)May 06 11:42
_Hicham_there is no fearMay 06 11:43
_Hicham_people don't even know what is an OSMay 06 11:43
_Hicham_it is not about fearMay 06 11:43
oiaohmWill they use programs they have never used before.May 06 11:43
oiaohmIf no they have the fear.May 06 11:43
_Hicham_for new users, yesMay 06 11:43
_Hicham_a new user doesn't know about OSMay 06 11:43
oiaohmYou will find over 90 percent of windows users will not.May 06 11:44
_Hicham_or office suiteMay 06 11:44
oiaohmThey have fear.May 06 11:44
oiaohmDon't show it.May 06 11:44
_Hicham_I am talking about first time usersMay 06 11:44
oiaohmIn any other form than actions.May 06 11:44
oiaohmFirst time users with no windows experince at all take quite well to Linux.May 06 11:44
oiaohmJust there are almost none of them.May 06 11:45
oiaohmMost have minor windows experince more often enough to have the fear.May 06 11:45
_Hicham_because of shipping Windows on machinesMay 06 11:45
oiaohmHuman nature is to fear anything different.May 06 11:46
_Hicham_bribing software vendors will helpMay 06 11:46
oiaohmThat has to be broken before you can get anywhere.May 06 11:46
oiaohmAppling force just makes persons hidding fear worse.May 06 11:47
_Hicham_to display a bios message like : "don't use Windows, it is very dangerous!"May 06 11:47
oiaohmThat will not work.May 06 11:47
_Hicham_hardware vendors are the keyMay 06 11:47
_Hicham_why it won't work?May 06 11:47
oiaohmTrying to create a new fear to distroy old now creates a person with 2 fears.May 06 11:48
oiaohmInstead of 1.May 06 11:48
oiaohmSo going backwards.May 06 11:48
_Hicham_better than letting him confident in WindowsMay 06 11:48
oiaohmPart of the problem most are not confident in there IT skills.May 06 11:49
oiaohmSo fear can take hold of them.May 06 11:49
_Hicham_Distros are now more user friendlyMay 06 11:50
_Hicham_take for example Fedora,Ubuntu,Mandriva, OpenSuseMay 06 11:50
oiaohmI still remember starting my mother off on a computer and bending the side of the case with foot.  Saying this machine is a junker if you don't use I am putting it in the crusher anyhow.May 06 11:50
oiaohmSo you really cannot break it any worse than I am planing.May 06 11:50
_Hicham_what do u suggest to break the market lock-in?May 06 11:51
oiaohmuser friendly is worthless if user has fear that blocks some from exploring and experiencing the user friendlyness.May 06 11:51
oiaohmFirst part is excepting the fear exists _Hicham_May 06 11:52
oiaohmSecound part is taking it on in a positive way.   Like with feature demos that doing particular things you can do better in other programs.May 06 11:52
oiaohmFinaly leading up to that particular things are better in different OS's.May 06 11:53
oiaohmThis is a postive process you are providing users with faster/cheeper and better ways to get stuff down.May 06 11:53
oiaohmOne of my normal Linux introductions is that windows has died and using a Linux livecd they can get there important files.May 06 11:54
udasorry for a little off topic q, but i downloaded server08 trial to see what silverlight is all about, and suspect iso may be corrupt. anyone have crc/md5/sha for 6001.18000.080118-1840_x86fre_Se rver_en-us-KRMSFRE_EN_DVD.iso ?May 06 11:55
oiaohmuda I am not touching silverlight with a ten foot pole.May 06 11:55
oiaohmNotice somethign here _Hicham_ my Linux introduction is not about using it for everything it allowing them todo something they might need 1 day.May 06 11:56
*mib_mhekfj (i=c910e07d@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 11:56
oiaohmAlso if you are downloading from MS there are checksums on the download page uda.May 06 11:58
oiaohmuda so its really strange to be asking for checksums.May 06 11:59
udaoiaohm, not from this one for some reasonMay 06 11:59
uda 06 11:59
oiaohmOk its one of those.May 06 12:02
oiaohmIts dated on download so unless 2 people download on the same day you cannot checksum.May 06 12:02
oiaohmall you can do is run a iso defect check.May 06 12:03
*mib_mhekfj is now known as Ap0G33May 06 12:09
_Hicham_what do u think of deltarpms?May 06 12:14
oiaohmdeltarpms most of the time will work.May 06 12:17
oiaohmThere is always a risk of course of preexisting damage having side effects not expected.May 06 12:17
schestowitzRed Hat States Its Case Against Software Patents 06 12:18
schestowitzMicrosoft Moonlight Reaches New Milestone So Microsoft Crowd Rejoices 06 12:19
_Hicham_I think that it is easy to implementMay 06 12:19
_Hicham_and wondering why linux lacked such an easy featureMay 06 12:20
oiaohmEvery check sum can fail _Hicham_May 06 12:20
oiaohmIn away that next check sum passes.May 06 12:20
_Hicham_it is not related to checksumsMay 06 12:20
oiaohmIt is.May 06 12:20
_Hicham_checksums are download relatedMay 06 12:20
oiaohmdelta contains a form of checksum so it don't patch wrong file.May 06 12:21
oiaohmIt has been avoided on the point of view it was just wiser to replace the lot.May 06 12:21
schestowitzBallmer's bunker speech: 06 12:22
_Hicham_it is about remanaging rpm databaseMay 06 12:24
_Hicham_schestowitz : I won't get upset if RedHat patented a piece of softwareMay 06 12:25
oiaohmdelta cannot be patented.May 06 12:25
oiaohmIts too old.May 06 12:25
_Hicham_im not talking about patenting deltaMay 06 12:25
oiaohmdelta rpmsMay 06 12:26
oiaohmIs about reducing the storage of duplicate rpms by using deltaMay 06 12:26
_Hicham_yes, i just answered schestowitzMay 06 12:26
oiaohmThere are side effects.May 06 12:26
_Hicham_side effects can be managedMay 06 12:27
oiaohmHmmMay 06 12:27
_Hicham_basically delta rpms are very simple theoreticallyMay 06 12:27
oiaohmDo you know that the side effect are.May 06 12:27
_Hicham_u have rpm version 1, and rpm version 2May 06 12:27
_Hicham_then u need deltarpm2-1May 06 12:28
_Hicham_the downloaded delta will modify rpm database to provide rpm version 2May 06 12:28
_Hicham_so no rpm database corruption can occurMay 06 12:28
oiaohmThe delta is the diff between versions.  What if first version that delta is working on is damaged in a way you cannot detect.May 06 12:29
oiaohmThings kinda can go south badly.May 06 12:30
oiaohmIts not without its risks.May 06 12:30
oiaohmFor a long time Linux developers have just avoided the path.May 06 12:31
oiaohmThere are advantages to not patching a program over and over again and just putting in fresh versions.May 06 12:32
oiaohmBasically both ways have downsides and advantages.May 06 12:32
oiaohmYou will learn for almost every advantage in IT _Hicham_ there is a downside.May 06 12:32
_Hicham_patched software equals fresh versionMay 06 12:34
_Hicham_in theoryMay 06 12:34
oiaohmReal world it don't.May 06 12:34
oiaohmMost of the time yes.May 06 12:34
oiaohmBut there are odd cases were it will not due to damage.May 06 12:34
oiaohmtheory you are using its not allowing for real world damage to files _Hicham_May 06 12:36
_Hicham_that is QAMay 06 12:36
_Hicham_not concept relatedMay 06 12:36
oiaohmNop.May 06 12:36
oiaohmQA don't help you nere.May 06 12:36
oiaohmhereMay 06 12:36
oiaohmProblem happens in the machine user end.May 06 12:36
oiaohmNot where you are developing the deltaMay 06 12:37
oiaohmCheck sums are using with delta in rpm to try to prevent this event from happing.May 06 12:39
oiaohmTry is the key word _Hicham_May 06 12:39
oiaohmRemember I said they would work most of the time.May 06 12:40
oiaohmThere will be the poor unlucky sods out there where it decides not to most likely 1 in 20 million or so.May 06 12:41
schestowitzSome artwork: 06 12:42
*_Hicham_1 ( has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 12:43
oiaohmOk what was the last line you got from me _Hicham_1May 06 12:43
_Hicham_1that deltarpms are not gonna be that good in practiceMay 06 12:43
schestowitzRed Hat should not patent softwareMay 06 12:44
schestowitzI don't agreeMay 06 12:44
schestowitzThat opens the door to everyone and makes a patent minefieldMay 06 12:44
schestowitzWhat you say is, "give a gun to this one person"May 06 12:44
schestowitzWhy|?May 06 12:44
oiaohm_Hicham_1 We are not talking large number here 1 in 20 million or less risk of deltarpms going south.   When you have 1000 + users hanging of a machine minor risks worry you.May 06 12:45
oiaohmSome of those would download files twice and compare them.   So bandwidth saving is not a issue to them.May 06 12:46
_Hicham_1package quality is up to the maintainerMay 06 12:46
_Hicham_1also deltarpm qualityMay 06 12:46
oiaohmProblem is the defect is not maintainer side.May 06 12:46
oiaohmIts user machine side.May 06 12:46
_Hicham_1what defect if it well tested?May 06 12:46
oiaohmDamage to files due to drives and controllers.May 06 12:47
_Hicham_1schestowitz : RedHat need to make more moneyMay 06 12:47
oiaohmIt does happen.May 06 12:47
_Hicham_1ah, I see nowMay 06 12:47
schestowitzThe anti-Stallman crowd: 06 12:47
_Hicham_1ur thinking in term of data recoveryMay 06 12:47
schestowitzPosing as LinuxMay 06 12:47
oiaohmI am thinking since it a patch if what it is patch is screwed up but not detectable.May 06 12:48
oiaohmPatch will still apply giving a not working program.May 06 12:48
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))May 06 12:48
oiaohmAlso the file on the client end that has been on the drive all that time could be damaged.May 06 12:49
*_Hicham_1 has quit (Remote closed the connection)May 06 12:49
oiaohmIt comes down to if you detect the fault.May 06 12:49
oiaohmschestowitz: I guess you alreadly understood everything I was saying to _Hicham_May 06 12:50
*_Hicham_ ( has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 12:50
oiaohm_Hicham_: it basically comes down how to you know when you should not apply the patch.May 06 12:50
_Hicham_so the risk is hardware failure related?May 06 12:50
oiaohmDue to what you are lining up to patch is damaged but you cannot detect it.May 06 12:50
oiaohmIts hardware glitch releated.May 06 12:51
oiaohmLike a cable being bumped at the wrong time.May 06 12:51
oiaohmNot broken hardware as such.May 06 12:51
oiaohmReal world has such glitches.May 06 12:51
schestowitzNew release of gnote (ping trmanco )May 06 12:51
_Hicham_Yes, I see nowMay 06 12:51
_Hicham_so deltarpms are a bad idea then?May 06 12:52
oiaohmsaving in bandwidth most likely worth it.May 06 12:52
oiaohmFor most people.May 06 12:52
oiaohmBut it is use with care.May 06 12:52
oiaohmAnd if you have ben deltarpm patching and a program goes strange.May 06 12:53
_Hicham_only if u sure than u have no disk problems, include filesystem problems?May 06 12:53
oiaohmIt might pay to download the full rpm and use that.May 06 12:53
oiaohmfilesystem problems rarely cause a undetectable.May 06 12:53
oiaohmBasically nothing is magical.May 06 12:54
oiaohmIts how you manage the risk and being aware that you have the risk that X installed progroms might be damaged from the extreamally rare event.May 06 12:54
*uda ( has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")May 06 12:54
schestowitzWeird headline in Schneier: "Security Considerations in the Design of the Human Penis" May 06 12:55
schestowitz"I have been informed, multiple times, that sandals over socks are a revolting and unforgivable fashion sin." 06 12:57
schestowitzIDG advertises Windows: 06 13:00
schestowitzNo Mac fans attacking this one yet? Slow day for them? 06 13:06
schestowitzMicrosoft bought Massive just to lay off its employees: 06 13:10
oiaohmLot of MS staff must be praying it stops at 5000May 06 13:14
*_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.")May 06 13:17
*mikankun has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))May 06 13:20
iwmwi suspect that there should not be Massive at all... like there should be no ads. especially in gamesMay 06 13:23
schestowitzMicrosoft’s Massive sheds off about 75% of its people: 06 13:27
schestowitzLabels Losing Money With iTunes Variable Pricing 06 13:32
schestowitzWhat's a "label"? :-)May 06 13:33
oiaohmDay MS shutdowns there seach engine we know they are in troubl.May 06 13:35
oiaohmtrouble.May 06 13:35
schestowitzYesMay 06 13:36
schestowitzGiving up on the obsessionMay 06 13:36
schestowitzThey could be in very deep debt had they bought YahooMay 06 13:36
schestowitzLike $30bn in debtMay 06 13:36
schestowitzAnd that's BEFORE the fnancial meltdownMay 06 13:36
oiaohmExactly what information do you think that search engine spider gives them.May 06 13:36
schestowitzPersonal or site-wise?May 06 13:36
schestowitzThey tried Ad Centre (?)May 06 13:37
oiaohmFrom a PR point of view.May 06 13:37
schestowitzNow it's being castrated (April 2009)May 06 13:37
schestowitzThey needed it to spy on surfersMay 06 13:37
schestowitzThey also have IE7 and IE8 to spy on usersMay 06 13:37
schestowitzLike Google's ToolbarMay 06 13:37
schestowitzoiaohm: it's not PRMay 06 13:37
schestowitzIt's old Microsoft tacticvsMay 06 13:37
oiaohmHow do you think MS finds sites that make bad comments agaisnt them.May 06 13:38
schestowitzIt's the "suffocate competitor" tacticMay 06 13:38
schestowitz"Tily into death spiral" or "house of cards"May 06 13:38
oiaohmWho is going to raise the eyes at a search engine spider.May 06 13:38
schestowitzIf MS can steal GOogle's revenue source then it limits Google's ability to craql and maintain blacklistsMay 06 13:38
schestowitz*crawlMay 06 13:38
schestowitzGoogle has good blacklistsMay 06 13:38
schestowitzI sent them some data too (Matt Cutts)May 06 13:38
schestowitzThere's loads of rubbish on the WebMay 06 13:39
schestowitzIf you don't know which half (or two thirds) to flush, you're a no-starterMay 06 13:39
schestowitzoiaohm: re: "How do you think MS finds sites that make bad comments agaisnt them." see W-EMay 06 13:39
schestowitzThey do this using their 'methods'May 06 13:39
schestowitzLike in TwitterMay 06 13:39
*schestowitz gets linkMay 06 13:39
oiaohmW-E still has to be getting access to spider information.May 06 13:40
schestowitz 06 13:40
schestowitz 06 13:40
oiaohmThere are cases of them finding sites before many users visit.May 06 13:40
schestowitzThe consequence: 06 13:40
schestowitzThey do lots of this for ODF now, I think. Pretending MS supports it.May 06 13:41
schestowitzThey can create dummy accounts or whatever to spout out rubbish c(PR)May 06 13:41
schestowitzTwitter is FULL of rubbishMay 06 13:41
schestowitzLike half the 'users' who make me a 'friend' are botsMay 06 13:41
schestowitzSpammers or botsMay 06 13:41
schestowitzoiaohm: like SurfaceMay 06 13:42
schestowitzThey pulled the review within less than a dayMay 06 13:42
schestowitzMSMay 06 13:42
oiaohmLike the Surface case.May 06 13:42
schestowitzMaybe Waggener alerted themMay 06 13:42
oiaohmThere are many like that.May 06 13:42
schestowitzBecase that's how it worksMay 06 13:42
schestowitzI'll get you an exampleMay 06 13:42
oiaohmWaggener is most likely getting access to MS search spider cache.May 06 13:42
schestowitzRead this: 06 13:42
schestowitzwaggener edstrom ensures first Vista7 reviews are bribed for: waggener-edstromMay 06 13:43
schestowitz 06 13:43
oiaohmThat is only half there job.May 06 13:43
oiaohmThe other half is detecting where problems are.May 06 13:44
schestowitzWE corrupts journalists: 06 13:44
schestowitzOr just MS in this caseMay 06 13:44
schestowitzWho knowsMay 06 13:44
oiaohmWE job is to corrupt media.May 06 13:44
schestowitzWE planted stories using Maureen OgaraMay 06 13:44
schestowitzProbably for SCO tooMay 06 13:44
oiaohmAlso monitor it.May 06 13:44
schestowitzTo create fearMay 06 13:44
oiaohmNothing creates more fear in a person than the appearce of the hand of god.May 06 13:45
schestowitzMS and waggener edstrom ban reviewer from touching Vista7: waggener edstromMay 06 13:45
schestowitz 06 13:45
schestowitzThey prevented this guy from writiing about itMay 06 13:45
schestowitzWhy?May 06 13:45
schestowitzCause they did intelligenceMay 06 13:45
oiaohmYepMay 06 13:45
schestowitzThey say he wrote nagative things beforeMay 06 13:45
schestowitzSo they have dossiersMay 06 13:45
schestowitzThey got caught leaking dossiersMay 06 13:45
schestowitzThen, they know which people to track and harrassMay 06 13:46
schestowitzMary Jo Foley told me about itMay 06 13:46
schestowitzJournalists are being assigned 'buddies' by MicrosoftMay 06 13:46
schestowitzPeople who police youMay 06 13:46
schestowitzEquivalent of some neo-StatsiMay 06 13:46
oiaohmMS is not the only one in this kind of game.May 06 13:46
schestowitzI knowMay 06 13:46
schestowitzBut show me this for other companiesMay 06 13:46
schestowitzYou can'tMay 06 13:46
schestowitzLike lobbyingMay 06 13:47
schestowitzMicrosoft is BY FAR the dirtiest in this areaMay 06 13:47
schestowitzIt built itself on itMay 06 13:47
schestowitzWatch how much coverage they get May 06 13:47
schestowitzCompare to IBMMay 06 13:47
schestowitzSoon you realise that MS is a marketing movementMay 06 13:47
schestowitzAbove most elseMay 06 13:47
oiaohmAnd some of MS operations exist just to hide what they are doing.May 06 13:48
schestowitzTwitter Shuts Down StatTweets < >May 06 13:48
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, covering one's own tracksMay 06 13:48
oiaohmWhy else would have MS maintained a search engine department making loss after loss.May 06 13:48
schestowitzThat too is PRMay 06 13:48
schestowitzThe PR of PRMay 06 13:48
schestowitzWatching the watcher. Covering up for coverupMay 06 13:48
oiaohmAlso search engine losses always go up when a new OS is coming out too.May 06 13:49
oiaohmThat is kinda sus.May 06 13:49
iwmwi don't get it... does m$ have patents on opengl?May 06 13:49
schestowitzThis new case discusses privacy: Supreme Court Justice Scalia Given Lesson In Internet Privacy May 06 13:50
schestowitzIt is eerily similar to what they did to eEric Schmidt around 2006May 06 13:50
oiaohmNo Ms does not have any patents on opengl why iwmwMay 06 13:50
schestowitzDo you think this case might have MS involvement?May 06 13:50
schestowitzMS overplays the "privacy" card by funding groups that attack GoogleMay 06 13:50
schestowitzThere are maybe 3 like theseMay 06 13:50
schestowitzSome are confirmedMay 06 13:50
oiaohmPrivacy card should be turned on MS.May 06 13:50
iwmwoiaohm: i just read 06 13:50
schestowitzSome were created by Microsoft, for a factMay 06 13:50
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, MS is worse privacy violatorMay 06 13:51
schestowitzWindows for exampleMay 06 13:51
schestowitzIEMay 06 13:51
schestowitzLiveMay 06 13:51
schestowitzMSNMay 06 13:51
schestowitzHotmailMay 06 13:51
schestowitzZuneMay 06 13:51
schestowitz(surveillance device)May 06 13:51
schestowitzThe End Of The IPO Drought Is Coming < >. Sounds far from plausible. The economic meltdown has not even begun yet. The nation is just borrowing more money.May 06 13:53
oiaohmThat is a very old artical iwmwMay 06 13:53
oiaohmMS for a while though they had.May 06 13:54

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Microsoft/Windows Has Fallen Well Below 1% (Now 0.7%) in American Samoa
statCounter Sees Microsoft Windows at Below 1% in American Samoa
The Thelio Mega Is a Dual-GPU Linux Supercomputer
System76 sells many desktops and laptops built to run Linux. The company has now revealed its new high-powered Linux desktop, the Thelio Mega
[Meme] "System of a Down"
The latest international catastrophe kills people
Why Microsoft is Laying Off So Many People in Nigeria
Nigeria is a place Microsoft has lost
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, July 19, 2024
IRC logs for Friday, July 19, 2024
Gemini Links 20/07/2024: Gopher Catchup and Old Computer Challenge
Links for the day
Microsoft Lays Off Half of Its Workforce in Nigeria
Microsoft continues to implode in Africa
Links 19/07/2024: Microsoft Breaks Down and Amdocs Has 1,500-3,000 More Layoffs
Links for the day
UEFI 'Secure Boot' Once Again Bricking PCs and Fake Security Models Are Perishing in Geminispace
Let's Encrypt has just fallen again
[Meme] Conservative (and Fake) Nuclear Physicist Bill Gates
Didn't even graduate from college, media treats him like a world-renowned expert in nuclear energy
The Gemini Capsule of Tux Machines Turns 2 in Six Days
Many people actually use Gemini, some participate in it by creating their own capsule (or capsules)
GNU/Linux Rises to 4% in Saudi Arabia, Says statCounter, Windows Has Fallen to 11% (Android Exceeds 60%)
Microsoft might soon fall below 10% in KSA (Saudi Arabia)
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, July 18, 2024
IRC logs for Thursday, July 18, 2024
GNU/Linux news for the past day
GNU/Linux news for the past day
1901 Days in High-Security Prison (and 8 More Years in Severe Confinement) for the 'Crime' of Exposing War Crimes and Corruption
Julian Assange clip = Microsoft Lobbying (Openwashing)
Here's the latest pair of blog posts
In Northern Mariana Islands, Where Julian Assange Pled Guilty 4 Weeks Ago, Windows Remains Second to Android, and GNU/Linux Still Grows in Oceania
It was the first month ever that statCounter saw more Web requests there from Android than from Windows
If GitLab Gets Sold (Datadog and Google Named Among Potential Buyers), It'll Prove Our Point About GitLab
Beware the bait on the hook
Hot Summer: Microsoft Flirting With the "5% Windows" Club in Afghanistan
The share of Windows in Afghanistan has fallen to almost 5% (1 in 20 Web requests)
[Meme] Nothing Says "Independence Day" Like...
Firing DEI on Independence Day period
Good News About GNU/Linux, Geminispace, FSF, and Backlash Against Microsoft
here are a few quick takes
Links 18/07/2024: Hardware, Conflicts, and Gemini Leftovers
Links for the day
Backlash and Negative Press After Microsoft Tells Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) People to DIE
Follow-up stories
Links 18/07/2024: Retroactively Pseudonymised Litigant and Alberta’s Energy ‘War Room’
Links for the day
Gemini Links 18/07/2024: A Welcome to Gemini and Politics of Assassinations
Links for the day
Red Hat's Official Site Yesterday: Promoting 'Secure' Boot in Machines You Don't Own or Control Anyway
"To be clear, CentOS Linux no longer exist"
Fabian Gruenbichler & Debian: former GSoC student added to keyring
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 18/07/2024: ORG Complaint to ICO About Facebook, Korean Double Agent Unmasked
Links for the day
Joel Espy Klecker & Debian on Joe Biden's health and Donald Trump's assassination
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, July 17, 2024
IRC logs for Wednesday, July 17, 2024
Links 18/07/2024: Hostname Pedantry and Retro Coding
Links for the day