Bonum Certa Men Certa

Why Nokia Sued Apple First (or Why Apple is Possibly the 'Bad Guy')

Nokia logo with Apple



Summary: Another angle on the Apple vs Nokia case

WE all know that Apple sued Linux/Android without any prior provocation from the side of Linux/Android. It makes Apple a patent aggressor, but some people cite Nokia as an example of Apple being the victim of a Linux-supporting company [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]. In our third IRC channel (#boycottnovell-social) we have just discussed the point which came to us via Identi.ca [1, 2] (language warning, as it's IRC and microblogging).



To make a long story short, Oiaohm insisted that it was Apple's fault as it started to provoke Linux-based products (such as Palm's WebOS) using patents. He explained that Nokia's action was defensive in a proactive sense. Partial log is below.






Techrights logo

IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: June 4th, 2010

schestowitz"although nokia has been fairly good to free software, when they pull bullshit like that they deserve to be called out [..] hey where was all the stories about nokia when they brought all the litigation with apple for bullshit patents?" @eeefak I wrote about that a lot and denounced Nokia since 2008 http://www.google.com/search?q=site:techrights.org+apple+nokia&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=Jun 04 09:51
phIRCe-localTitle: site:techrights.org apple nokia - Google Search .::. Size~: 35.96 KBJun 04 09:51
oiaohmSome peopleJun 04 10:24
oiaohmApple started itJun 04 10:24
oiaohmNever mess with nokiaJun 04 10:24
oiaohmNokia is truly one of the most friendly companies out there.  If nokia used all the patents they had they could have 100 percent of the market.Jun 04 10:25
schestowitzApple started it?Jun 04 10:26
schestowitzI think Nokia didJun 04 10:26
oiaohmApple started it.Jun 04 10:34
oiaohmTrying to apply font patents on NokiaJun 04 10:34
oiaohmSometimes you should leave well enough alone.Jun 04 10:34
schestowitzI see..Jun 04 10:35
oiaohmIe apple poked nokia with small stick.Jun 04 10:36
oiaohmNokia pulled out huge cub and procedded to beat them into the ground.Jun 04 10:36
oiaohmNokia is fine as long as you are not dumb enough to poke them.Jun 04 10:37
schestowitzAny link on that?Jun 04 10:37
schestowitzI thought Nokia had struck firstJun 04 10:37
oiaohmIe apple saber rattled.Jun 04 10:38
oiaohmI did have the link.Jun 04 10:38
oiaohmIt was over there iphone they made a statement and nokia kinda exploded.Jun 04 10:38
oiaohmBasically nokia believe in pemetive strick if they get wind of you planing to hit them.Jun 04 10:40
schestowitzShow it to me, plsJun 04 10:40
schestowitzit's /very/ importantJun 04 10:40
schestowitzI accused Nokia is being the first to strikeJun 04 10:40
schestowitzI'd love to show Apple started itJun 04 10:41
oiaohmI know what the tech was about trying to get google to play ball.Jun 04 10:43
schestowitzLet me know if you find thisJun 04 10:47
schestowitzYou're usually right about this stuffJun 04 10:47
schestowitzBut I ought to at least show evidence from Apple/NokiaJun 04 10:47
oiaohmIts two things.Jun 04 10:50
oiaohmMulti-touch and fonts.  schestowitzJun 04 10:50
oiaohmApple was saber rattling about multi-touch attacked quite a few companies.  Nokia needs multi-touch to stay competitive.Jun 04 10:51
oiaohmNokia has a lot of core patents.   Basically hit Apple hard get a good patent deal.Jun 04 10:51
schestowitzBut did Apple threaten Nokia?Jun 04 10:52
MinceRfor yourself, that isJun 04 10:52
MinceRcrApple needs to be hit harder so they won't oppress the industry any moreJun 04 10:52
oiaohmNokia don't have to threat them before they will hit you.Jun 04 10:54
oiaohmIf you place your self as a tech road block.Jun 04 10:54
oiaohmThey will steam roll you.Jun 04 10:54
oiaohmBasically apple threating other companies over multi-touch basically put themselves in nokia target to be neturalised before they can attack nokia.Jun 04 10:55
oiaohmBe a nice company and nokia is nice to you.Jun 04 10:55
oiaohmbe a asshole company hope nokia has nothing on you.Jun 04 10:55
MinceRand what has Xiph done against Nokia, then?Jun 04 10:57
oiaohmhttp://industry.bnet.com/technology/10004789/apple-multi-touch-patent-on-shaky-ground/  And this is the bit that tops it all.Jun 04 10:57
phIRCe-localTitle: Apple Multi-Touch Patent on Shaky Ground | BNET Technology Blog | BNET .::. Size~: 57.85 KBJun 04 10:57
oiaohmApples patent might be completely worthless.Jun 04 10:57
MinceRdon't forget Nokia's attack on HTML5.Jun 04 10:58
oiaohmDefine attack.Jun 04 10:59
oiaohmLot of stuff against Xiph nokia showed was stuff they had licenced from other companies not there own stuff.Jun 04 10:59
oiaohmAlso hardware decoders are more power effective ie longer battery live.Jun 04 11:00
schestowitzhttp://blog.wolfire.com/2010/06/Aquaria-goes-open-sourceJun 04 11:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Aquaria goes open source! - Wolfire Games Blog .::. Size~: 20.09 KBJun 04 11:00
MinceRNokia along with crApple made sure that HTML5 has no default recommendation for codecsJun 04 11:00
MinceRwhen it could have been Theora/Vorbis.Jun 04 11:00
MinceRthat was an asshole moveJun 04 11:01
MinceRit was said that Nokia did it so they could force DRM-encrusted shit the throats of users.Jun 04 11:01
oiaohmYep Nokia was on of the first to support VP8Jun 04 11:01
MinceRs/hit/hit down/Jun 04 11:01
MinceRthere was no VP8 back then.Jun 04 11:01
schestowitzMaybe it would not have been necessaryJun 04 11:02
oiaohmNokia was also the first to call google to release vp8Jun 04 11:02
schestowitzYouTUbe could use OggJun 04 11:02
schestowitzGoogle bought a company insteadJun 04 11:02
oiaohmTo solve issue MinceRJun 04 11:02
MinceRit was a nonissueJun 04 11:02
schestowitzNokia support Microsoft's Silver LieJun 04 11:03
schestowitzSince early 2008Jun 04 11:03
oiaohmThere are a few issue with TheoraJun 04 11:03
MinceRalso, don't forget Nokia's whining about how the FLOSS community should just do what Nokia wants and help them put DRM everywhere.Jun 04 11:03
schestowitzAri's rantJun 04 11:03
MinceRwhat issues? slightly less efficient than the holy H.264?Jun 04 11:03
oiaohmVorbis you can build hardware decoders for quite well.Jun 04 11:03
oiaohmH264 the same.Jun 04 11:03
schestowitzLinux users "need some education"Jun 04 11:03
MinceRor perhaps VC-1? (lol)Jun 04 11:03
oiaohmTheora has issues when you try to turn it into power effective circuit.Jun 04 11:04
oiaohmVC-1 is worse than Theora in a circuit.Jun 04 11:04
MinceRso what do you recommend? i'd recommend using a CPU.Jun 04 11:04
oiaohmDecated cirucit does not take as much power and lets the cpu run slow and pull less power.Jun 04 11:05
oiaohmRemember lot of Nokia devices are about days of battery life.Jun 04 11:05
[...]
oiaohmhttp://mashable.com/2009/01/26/apple-multi-touch-patent/  << the nokia attack on apple would have started from here.  schestowitzJun 04 11:15
phIRCe-localTitle: Apple Gets Their Multi-Touch Patent; Is Palm Screwed? .::. Size~: 89.79 KBJun 04 11:15
oiaohmA quite open patent attack against Palm over multitouch that nokia will need to implement to complete against iphone.Jun 04 11:16
oiaohmDon't go rattling sabbers sometimes you wake up a monster who is in on mood in talking.Jun 04 11:17
oiaohmhttp://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/22/tim-cook-apple-will-aggressively-protect-iphone-intellectual-property/  And these rumors would have made Nokia think offence is better than waiting around.Jun 04 11:20
phIRCe-localTitle: Tim Cook: Apple Will Aggressively Protect iPhone Intellectual Property - Mac Rumors .::. Size~: 18.34 KBJun 04 11:20
oiaohmYep don't rumor that you are going to Aggressively protect tech then be infringing on stuff.Jun 04 11:21
oiaohmI guess schestowitz is afkJun 04 11:21
[...]
oiaohmCan you see the start point now.  schestowitzJun 04 11:31
oiaohmIe apple says they going to protect the tech in the iphone.Jun 04 11:31
oiaohmNokia gets upset.Jun 04 11:31
schestowitzYes, I read thatJun 04 11:40
schestowitzI was gonna do a post about itJun 04 11:40

Recent Techrights' Posts

Maintenance Reminder
We'll carry on publishing
EPO "Cocaine Communication Manager" - Part VIII - Mobbing and Silencing of Dissenting Staff
that's the very cornerstone of functional democracies with real opposition parties
Reader Shares Recent Memes on Slop and 'Coding' by LLMs
"just some funny memes I thought were relevant to current coverage."
 
Probably an All-Time Record
Our investment in our own SSG is paying off
Your Site Should Implement Its Own Search (Before It's Too Late)
GAFAM was never trustworthy
Gemini Links 22/03/2026: LLM Slop Attacks USENET, Announcing Pig (New Game in Gemini Protocol)
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, March 21, 2026
IRC logs for Saturday, March 21, 2026
SLAPP Censorship - Part 18 Out of 200: Third Parties Funding Attacks on the Messengers, Lawsuits Against GAFAM-Critical Voices That Uphold Real National Security
Women are like kryptonite to them
Never Trust People Who Write Their Own Wikipedia Pages (Vanity Pages About Themselves) or Ask Friends to Do So. Also: Jono Bacon is Married to Microsoft.
We'd hardly be the first to point out Wikipedia isn't what it seems
No Tolerance for Attacks on Family Members
Being a Free software activist ought not lead to "collateral damage" like attacks on family members, including doxing
Sirius Open Source is Just a Zombie Firm With Shell Entities
Many companies fake their health and their size
Communities Can Only Survive When Trust Prevails
PCLinuxOS is still a vibrant and authentic community
Techrights Was Always a Community Site
The harder we're attacked, the more people participate in the site
Behind the PR Smokescreen and Microsoft-Sponsored Chaff, Microsoft Layoffs in "AI" Alleged This Month
In an age when ~1,000 simultaneous layoffs aren't enough to receive any media coverage, what can we expect remaining publishers to tell us about Microsoft layoffs in 2026?
Bluewashing at Confluent: Some Workers to Leave Within 3 Months (IBM Mass Layoffs)
Is the "era of AI" an era when none of the media will mention over 800 layoffs? [...] There's a lesson here about the state of the contemporary media, not just IBM and bluewashing
Microsoft OpenAI, Drowning in Debt and Forced to Make Significant Cuts (as Reports Reveal This Month), Does Hiring Disguised as "Takeovers" to Fake Value or Alleged Potential
Remember what happened to Skype last year
Slop Does Not Replace Art, It Contaminates Everything With Reckless Nonsense
many Computer Scientists do not want programs to get contaminated by slop
Coders Don't Just Reject 'Vibe Coding' Because They're "Luddites", They Just Know the True Cost of Slop
if some programmer says slop sucks, don't rush to assume selfishness or defence of one's occupation
When Nobody Else Covers the News
There's an obvious "media blackout" regarding the mass layoffs
Links 21/03/2026: David Botstein Dies, Slop as Censorship Apparatus
Links for the day
Links 21/03/2026: Metastablecoin Fragmentation and Crescent Moon
Links for the day
Gemini Links 21/03/2026: Historic Ada Docs; The Lurking LLM on the SmolNet
Links for the day
HSBC the Latest Failed Bank Using Slop as Excuse for Its Financial Failure
"HSBC is planning on cutting as many as 20,000 jobs in the near future as the company allies with AI revolution."
Invitation to General Assembly After 1,200 EPO Workers Participated in the Demonstration 3 Days Ago
"the strike of 19 March was also very well followed."
A/Prof Susan G Kleinmann, Enkelena Haxhija & Debian-private risk to MIT
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, March 20, 2026
IRC logs for Friday, March 20, 2026
SLAPP Censorship - Part 17 Out of 200: A Long Track Record of Online Abuse, Then Choosing a Low-Cost Law Firm to Muzzle People Who Have Illuminated This Abuse for Over a Decade
Censorship by targeting ISPs and webhosts isn't unprecedented
Plagiarism in "Linux" Clothing (LLM Slop in linuxiac.com, LinuxTeck.com, and linuxsecurity.com)
The net effect of those slopfarms is very negative
Links 20/03/2026: Facebook Weaponised Politically, Openwashing by LF and NVIDIA, Encyclopedia Britannica Sues Microsoft Proxy for Plagiarism
Links for the day
The EPO's Local Staff Committee Munich (LSCMN) Explains to the Administrative Council (AC) How Bad Things Have Become at Europe's Second-Largest Institution, Biggest Patent Office, and Corruption/Cocaine Hub (Jobs Sold to Friends)
We'll say a bit more tomorrow
IBM's Red Hat Diversity: Only 3 Women (Out of 11 Leaders)
For comparison's sake, the FSF is about 50% female
Symptom of Publishers Dying: They Move to Adopt Slop. Symptom of Software Companies Dying: They Move to Adopt Slop ('Vibe').
It'll always fail. It's hype. It's a bubble.
Under IBM, Red Hat Replaces Code With LLM Slop, Fedora is Slopware
Not even hiding it, those things are in plain sight
Gemini Links 20/03/2026: Depictions of Culture and The Social Smolnet
Links for the day
SimilarWeb Was Never a Reliable Yardstick for Traffic
5RB may need some "house-cleaning"
Strangulation, suffocation, Jonathan Carter & Debian toxic culture confirmed
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Reports or Hearsay Suggest Ogilvy Broke Up With IBM and Insiders Report Mass Layoffs in "Infrastructure" (Might Impact Red Hat Entrants)
hearsay in Social Control Media
Scheduled Server Maintenance Tomorrow Night
Starting 9PM
None of the Above (NotA) & Debian snubbing Sruthi Chandran
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 20/03/2026: Cryptography Pioneers Win Turing Award and BMG Sues Anthropic for Copyright Infringement
Links for the day
Even Uganda Understands That Journalists Never Belong in Prison
"Ugandan authorities must respect the spirit of this ruling and abandon any measures that seek to jail Ugandans for the free flow of ideas."
Inaction Helps Your Enemies
Without freedom, there's nothing else left
Windows Down From 99% to ~50% in Republic of Seychelles (République des Seychelles)
Windows fell by a lot
"systemd is essentially a corporate IBM/Redhat project and corporations of course will comply"
Microsoft and IBM care about users' freedom like Cheeto Lump cares about the US Constitution
Confluent Insiders: IBM Laid Over Over 800 at Confluent, Not Just 800
For the record, the layoffs at Confluent won't be over. After the bluewashing there will be "IBM RAs" impacting Confluent folks, aside from PIPs
The Layoffs at IBM Carry on (Shades of Enron)
Is IBM another Enron?
"IBM boss Arvind Krishna... financial package valued at $38 million in calendar 2025 - equivalent to the average collective pay of 765 Big Blue workers."
continues to ruin the company to enrich himself while pretending he has a strategy
Gemini Links 20/03/2026: Digital Identity Bifurcation and a "Return to Gemini"
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, March 19, 2026
IRC logs for Thursday, March 19, 2026