Re: SPI and people's dignity

[Craig Sanders <cas@taz.net.au>]

i was going to ignore this until i saw your two most recent messages.  you
are getting hysterical.  it's kind-of embarassing to watch.

On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Fernando wrote:

> I am participating in a discussion in debian-admintool.
> 
> Craig Sanders <cas@taz.net.au> and I have very different points of view
> about certain aspects of the design.
> 
> However, the tone of Craig went up too much as to insult me in a public
> list:
> 
> "save your paranoid delusions for your shrink.  i'm not interested in them"
> "I have no more time for you or your stupid ideas"
> 
> I complained privately to Bruce, asking him to calm Craig down, but he
> justified him, saying that it was me who provoked him.

i wasn't aware of this but it is certainly true.


> I see clear insults in Craig's message. I don't see any insult in
> any of my messages. Does this mean that some people's dignity is
> considered by SPI as more valuable than others'?

i think it means that if you insist on making a fool out of yourself in
public then nobody is going to stop you.


> If this is a case of double standards I am not going to keep silent
> about it.
>
> Maybe Bruce decides to "censor" my messages. Or maybe he uses his
> power to remove me from the list, but until that moment I am going to
> protest.

i haven't known bruce to censor anyone's messages.  he has occasionally been
a bit heavy-handed in exercising his 'fiat' power to make a decision, but
he's never censored anybody.  

I also don't think he actually has any power to remove people from lists
- he can ask people to leave (most people with any sense of self-dignity
probably would), but if he tried kicking anyone out without majority
support from everyone else then the shit would hit the fan in a big way.


> Please Bruce answer my questions:
> 
> Did Craig do right insulting me in a public list?
> 
> Can you justify him?

I can.  In short, you asked for it.


I don't need Bruce to justify my actions, either.  

If Bruce had asked me to apologise or withdraw from the list then I
probably would have chosen to withdraw from the list - i generally do
not descend to this level except under extreme provocation.

i consider 3+ days of "debating" with Fernando, with him getting more
and more desperate and ridiculous with every message, topped off
with a private message from him making dumb point after dumb point
and exclaiming each point with "HA HA!", and then to have my motives
impugned by him in public to be pretty extreme provocation.


> > > >From your opinions I infer that you really don't want to have
> > > a database, and you are trying to push your absurdly complex
> > > templates in order to destroy the benefits of having a database.

This is an insult to me, impugning my motives.

it deserved a lot stronger response than the sarcastic one i gave you:

> > and why the fuck would i want to do that? Maybe i'm really a spy
> > from Microsoft sent here to destroy the free-software world? and
> > it's your duty as The Man Who Recognised The Danger to stop me!!!
> >
> > save your paranoid delusions for your shrink. i'm not interested in
> > them.



and at the end of the same message, i said:

> > I have no more time for you or your stupid ideas. There is no point
> > in discussing them rationally because they are irrational to begin
> > with.

I am not making any statement here about whether I consider you to be
stupid or not. 

Note that i am calling your ideas stupid, not you personally. There is a
difference.



You are making a mountain out of a molehill.

craig

--
craig sanders
networking consultant                  Available for casual or contract
temporary autonomous zone              system administration tasks.


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