Join us now at the IRC channel.
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lxoliva/@lxoliva] !GNU !Linuxlibre 3.4.4-gnu and 3.0.36-gnu source tarballs are now available | Jun 23 00:00 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Reshared post from Michael Tiemann http://ur1.ca/9jvyh | Jun 23 00:24 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Nandan Vaidya - Google+ - Having read both Emily White's initial post… .::. Size~: 185.92 KB | Jun 23 00:24 |
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| <--sebsebseb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Jun 23 00:29 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] User's guide to Indian free speech :-http://akhondofswat.blogspot.de/2012/05/users-guide-to-indian-free-speech.htmlhtt... http://b1t.it/bE1Z | Jun 23 00:34 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Akhond of Swat .::. Size~: 170.3 KB | Jun 23 00:34 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Nandan Vaidya - Google+ - User's guide to Indian free speech :- … .::. Size~: 164.95 KB | Jun 23 00:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @kfogel If you have just a hammer, everything's a nail; if you have just markets, everything's for sale. Privatization is a tool, not ... | Jun 23 00:44 | |
| <--Ziomatrix has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )) | Jun 23 01:29 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @ovruni ♻ @fsf: Thank you #Debian, for joining w/ the #FSF to oppose Restricted Boot. True Secure Boot requires user control. http:// ... | Jun 23 01:40 | |
| Diablo-D3 | http://narf-archive.com/dp/9ce3214703dca4ed4222e2656e3ad31b7ba2b8c0.jpg | Jun 23 01:44 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Archive™ .::. Size~: 3 KB | Jun 23 01:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know | Jun 23 01:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | in a vague sort of way | Jun 23 01:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | I feel sorry for microsoft | Jun 23 01:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh oh oh | Jun 23 01:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | even better | Jun 23 01:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://narf-archive.com/dp/c74d226bb31f57311b52aa72e72fa17522bfd75b.jpg | Jun 23 01:45 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Archive™ .::. Size~: 3 KB | Jun 23 01:45 |
| -->nj3ma (~yaaic@212.49.88.98) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 01:46 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Am kinda an over sharer. Miss you. @ThatRahma | Jun 23 02:27 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] :-) @ThatRahma | Jun 23 02:27 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Sucks being Lebron. | Jun 23 02:37 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] "@OrangeMauritius: Launch of first 4G network in Mauritius by Orange http://t.co/yvIesa3T" !africa | Jun 23 02:45 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Reshared post from Google http://ur1.ca/9jwgg | Jun 23 02:45 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Axes to grind. | Jun 23 02:45 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Twitter / ? .::. Size~: 5.61 KB | Jun 23 02:45 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Nandan Vaidya - Google+ - Today we're marking the birth of a someone who is a hero to… .::. Size~: 171.92 KB | Jun 23 02:45 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] "She said she'd be back to give me her number. Still waiting. Sad bit is I'd have wifed her" | Jun 23 02:47 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] I'll Never Be Any Good on the Guitar was a kickass name for a rock band. | Jun 23 02:47 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Was a mouthful, so we'd just go by "Any Good on the Guitar" most times. | Jun 23 02:50 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] RT @zach Oh man, the new Microsoft tablet looks like an epically terrible product. Exactly what I expected. | Jun 23 02:50 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2012/6/21/china-nvidia-loses-face-and-a-10-million-pc-order-over-linux-drivers-and-nres.aspx | Jun 23 02:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: China: NVIDIA Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's - Bright Side Of News* .::. Size~: 86.59 KB | Jun 23 02:53 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Just voted in a doodle poll by @mralanorth #nairobilug | Jun 23 02:55 | |
| roy | "Yeah, both Novacut and Lightworks are bringing really great video editing to Linux... finally!" https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1727539 | Jun 23 03:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #Lightworks Running On Ubuntu; Pro Film Editing Coming To Linux? http://www.muktware.com/3705/lightworks-running-ubuntu-pro-film-editing-coming-linux #ubuntu #linux | Jun 23 03:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Lightworks Running On Ubuntu; Pro Film Editing Coming To Linux? .::. Size~: 28.71 KB | Jun 23 03:14 |
| roy | "Could be awesome... I'm just waiting to see source and what license it's under." | Jun 23 03:14 |
| roy | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1729328 | Jun 23 03:15 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Is #Calligra A Great Alternative to LibreOffice? http://maketecheasier.com/is-calligra-a-great-alternative-to-libreoffice/2012/06/18 #kde #odf | Jun 23 03:15 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Is Calligra A Great Alternative to LibreOffice? .::. Size~: 44.52 KB | Jun 23 03:15 |
| roy | "@Bugs_Bane - that's a very interresting point. In fact, I've seen inconsistencies in displaying ODT files [which were created in LO] in both Calligra and Abword ... which makes me think it may be LibeOffice' fault. Need to make some more tests to nail it down." | Jun 23 03:15 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 03:15 |
| roy | @EXN - I just saved a file in ODT format and word is unable to open it. Now for me that's not a problem, but on the one hand I interact with a number of people who struggle to use a computer, let alone worrying what applications to use to open a file in an odd format. On the other hand I deal with people in business, and, like it or not, the only acceptable format for them is that chosen by Microsoft. | Jun 23 03:15 |
| roy | I'm curious as to which versions of word have problems opening previous versions? I have .doc files going back to1995 that I am able to open in Office 2008 for Mac. | Jun 23 03:15 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 03:15 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 03:15 |
| roy | @Ancient_Mariner - well, you see, serious businesses usually use PDF format, because it is the only way to avoid displaying and formatting problems. The smaller ones don't usually get the whole point and use Word because that's the only thing they know and that's what they use in HOME. Business policies are usualy strict on what document formats are allowed, what type of software is allowed, what can and what cannot be installed on computers. | Jun 23 03:15 |
| roy | For example, in my old workplace when I used to be an admin we had some policies like "ODT internally - PDF for the client | Jun 23 03:15 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 03:16 |
| roy | "I've only worked in Pharma/healthcare/diagnostics, but all the companies I've interacted with have used word for documents, excel for data, powerpoint for presentations. PDF was reserved for official documents sent to customers that could not be changed (of course they can be changed, but most ordinary people didn't have the software to do so). I'm not sure what you'd consider a serious business - the last corp I worked for was Beckman | Jun 23 03:16 |
| roy | Coulter." | Jun 23 03:16 |
| roy | "Well, by "serious" I mean those who do care for interoperability and their workflow, not the actual size of the company ;) I was an IT admin in middle-sized company in Poland [mostly international steel trading] and couple other places. I obviously have no actual knowledge of US ecosystem, as I've never even been to US, so the policies I'm talking about may be a "standard" here, but not necessarily in other countries/ | Jun 23 03:16 |
| roy | states. I suppose it is a real pain to have local software monopoly, but I'l be glad to know your opinion in this subject" | Jun 23 03:16 |
| roy | "I'd guess that the IT depts of almost every US and UK company would see microsoft software as the universal standard that guarantees interoperability. There are a few that use open source (as far as I recall, Peavey, the music company do) but they really are a rarity. Beckman (>10,000 worldwide) had a standard build for PCs which included microsoft office, and they seemed typical of all the other businesses I've worked with." | Jun 23 03:16 |
| roy | "OpenOffice right now feels a bit like Firefox did in early noughties. There's a surprisingly huge number of casual self-selected users." | Jun 23 03:16 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 03:17 |
| roy | Well, If we are about to point our finger on anyone, then MS would be the one to be blamed. Closed document format specification leaves open source developers pretty much no choice but guessing. It's still a wonder that they eventually came up with some sort of "support" for this closed spec od DOC/DOCX. | Jun 23 03:17 |
| roy | Personaly I use Linux exclusively, mixing it only with variety of other UNIX-based OSs like *BSD, occasionaly OSX [IF I really have to]. From all of this I must say ODT is the only solution that works right OOTB on every platform I use. Obviously it works on Windows too, but I don't know | Jun 23 03:17 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 03:17 |
| ---roy is now known as schestowitz | Jun 23 03:17 | |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1726241 | Jun 23 03:22 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Microsoft’s Jim Allchin: “I am Scared [of GNU/Linux]” http://techrights.org/2009/01/18/allchin-scared-of-gnu-linux/ #linux | Jun 23 03:22 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Microsoft’s Jim Allchin: “I am Scared [of GNU/Linux]” (Analysts Cartel Part II) | Techrights .::. Size~: 127.18 KB | Jun 23 03:22 |
| schestowitz | "He doesn't use the phrase GNU/Linux anywhere in that correspondence..." | Jun 23 03:22 |
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| *DaemonFC is listening to Whole New Way by Scissor Sisters on Night Work [Amarok] | Jun 23 03:29 | |
| -->sivoais (~zaki@199.19.225.239) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 03:32 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/vgjo0/open_source_geiger_counter_successfully/ | Jun 23 03:35 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Open source Geiger counter successfully kickstarted - The H Open: News and Features : opensource .::. Size~: 43 KB | Jun 23 03:35 |
| schestowitz | "How cheap could that be? Schematics available?" | Jun 23 03:35 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Welcome To Ubuntu's Penguin Bar - How Can I Help You? http://ur1.ca/9jwyx #ubuntu #gnu #linux | Jun 23 03:47 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Welcome To Ubuntu’s Penguin Bar – How Can I Help You? « FOSS Force .::. Size~: 85.27 KB | Jun 23 03:47 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] The death of an HTML5 game breeds an open source project http://ur1.ca/9jwzi #opensource | Jun 23 03:50 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Open Source Community: The death of an HTML5 game breeds an open source project .::. Size~: 85.23 KB | Jun 23 03:50 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] ♻ @naomirwolf They can legislate for vaginal probes but if a woman says the word it's a scandal? http://www.ur1.ca/9jwzu #vagina #freespeech | Jun 23 03:54 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ml2mst/@ml2mst] RT @bijan join !FSF campaign against UEFI's Boot policy or "secure boot" implementation. 30,000+ people already joined. !linux bit.ly/n ... | Jun 23 03:54 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] This Week in #Linux http://ur1.ca/9jx07 | Jun 23 03:54 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Vagina: say it loud, Lisa Brown | Naomi Wolf | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 246.21 KB | Jun 23 03:54 |
| scientes | schestowitz, you see the turing machine? | Jun 23 03:54 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: This Week in Linux .::. Size~: 38.2 KB | Jun 23 03:54 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Congrats to Charles-H. Schulz. from #mandriva and #libreoffice http://ur1.ca/9jpss | Jun 23 03:55 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Wedding .::. Size~: 42.14 KB | Jun 23 03:55 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] #NVIDIA Loses Huge #GPU Order Due To #Linux Blob http://ur1.ca/9jx1s add the caption... | Jun 23 04:04 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: [Phoronix] NVIDIA Loses Huge GPU Order Due To Linux Blob .::. Size~: 18.65 KB | Jun 23 04:04 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[faither/@faither] ♻ @thistleweb: Police Send SWAT Team, Break Into Wrong House (With TV Film Crew) In Response To Internet Troll http://goo.gl/9xRGy | Jun 23 04:07 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Police Send SWAT Team, Break Into Wrong House (With TV Film Crew) In Response To Internet Troll | Techdirt .::. Size~: 125.28 KB | Jun 23 04:07 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Google updates Android developer site ahead of Google I/O http://ur1.ca/9jx2b #android #linux | Jun 23 04:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Google updates Android developer site ahead of Google I/O - The H Open: News and Features .::. Size~: 50.15 KB | Jun 23 04:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] #Nokia sales estimates slashed after news of #Vista Phone 8 http://ur1.ca/9jx3d worse than garbage. #microsoft #entryism #mole | Jun 23 04:14 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Massive #linux tablets deployment http://ur1.ca/9jx3e (Thailand signs the world’s largest educational tablet distribution deal) | Jun 23 04:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Nokia sales estimates slashed after news of Windows Phone 8 | Mobile - CNET News .::. Size~: 89.23 KB | Jun 23 04:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Thailand signs the world's largest educational tablet distribution deal | Digital Trends .::. Size~: 61.55 KB | Jun 23 04:14 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] The Linux Graphics Stack http://ur1.ca/9jt1l #linux #kernel | Jun 23 04:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Linux Graphics Stack | Clean Rinse .::. Size~: 115.55 KB | Jun 23 04:17 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[faither/@faither] ♻@fsf:Thank you #Debian, for joining w/ the #FSF to oppose Restricted Boot. True Secure Boot requires user control http://ur1.ca/5fg95 #gnu | Jun 23 04:19 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Stand up for your freedom to install free software — Free Software Foundation — working together for free software .::. Size~: 43.6 KB | Jun 23 04:19 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Linux-based Supercomputers Land 462 Spots in TOP500 List http://ur1.ca/9jx45 #gnu #linux #hpc | Jun 23 04:20 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Linux-based Supercomputers Land 462 Spots in TOP500 List | Linux.com .::. Size~: 39.47 KB | Jun 23 04:20 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] In Soviet... [IMG] http://ur1.ca/9jx4e | Jun 23 04:22 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 23 04:22 |
| <--DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) | Jun 23 04:24 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] #BT has been terrible garbage for over a day. Landline issues, slow Internet, disconnections. They don't even acknowledge this. | Jun 23 04:27 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "In a nutshell, sometimes it is OK to get offended; social mismatches happen." http://ur1.ca/9jx5d | Jun 23 04:32 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Harassment vs. Offense | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 46.18 KB | Jun 23 04:32 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] KDE To Become More Social http://ur1.ca/9jx5k #kde always at the forefront | Jun 23 04:34 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: KDE To Become More Social .::. Size~: 28.07 KB | Jun 23 04:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] New to Linux? #ZorinOS 6 Makes the Transition Easy http://ur1.ca/9jx6c #gnu #linux | Jun 23 04:37 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: New to Linux? Zorin OS 6 Makes the Transition Easy | PCWorld Business Center .::. Size~: 80.1 KB | Jun 23 04:37 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Review: #Netrunner 4.2 LTS "Dryland" SE http://ur1.ca/9jx6q #gnu #linux | Jun 23 04:39 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Das U-Blog by Prashanth: Review: Netrunner 4.2 LTS "Dryland" SE .::. Size~: 117.55 KB | Jun 23 04:39 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Gnome’s 10 big goals for 2013/14 http://ur1.ca/9jx81 #gnu #linux#gnome #desktop #development | Jun 23 04:45 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Gnome’s 10 big goals for 2013/14 | woGue .::. Size~: 33.55 KB | Jun 23 04:45 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Unsolicited but Offered: Linux on Film: Supernatural Season 7 Episode 20 (with Felicia Day) http://ur1.ca/9jx8b #linux | Jun 23 04:47 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] Karma's a bitch, ain't it, noVideo? #nVidia loses huge order due to closed driver: bit.ly/LdWqb5 /via @cyberkiller | Jun 23 04:47 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Unsolicited but Offered: Linux on Film: Supernatural Season 7 Episode 20 (with Felicia Day) .::. Size~: 24.29 KB | Jun 23 04:47 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1735933 | Jun 23 04:50 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: Um 20:45 wird zurückgeschossen!  #bild #fail #heimspiel #danzig #euro2012 | Jun 23 04:50 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 23 04:50 |
| schestowitz | "didn't know you understand German :·>" | Jun 23 04:50 |
| schestowitz | I'm a German citizen | Jun 23 04:50 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "Once GNU is written, everyone will be able to obtain good system software free, just like air." -Richard M. Stallman | Jun 23 04:50 | |
| schestowitz | '"Um x Uhr wird zurückgeschossen" ist über mehrere Sprachen bekannt #' | Jun 23 04:50 |
| schestowitz | "Years of work and lobbying in the name of the people seem to have paid off. Europe should thank Erik Josefsson and members of the European Green Party." https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1733951 | Jun 23 04:51 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Final Europarl Committee Rejects ACTA: Internet-Lobbyists, 5-0. http://torrentfreak.com/final-committee-rejects-acta-internet-lobbyists-5-0-120621/ #acta #cronycapitalism | Jun 23 04:51 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Final Europarl Committee Rejects ACTA: Internet-Lobbyists, 5-0. | TorrentFreak .::. Size~: 35.47 KB | Jun 23 04:51 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] In bid for patent sanity, judge throws out entire Apple/Motorola case - http://bit.ly/NuCdT9 hooray - more judges like this please | Jun 23 04:52 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "Europe should thank Erik Josefsson and members of the European Green Party." http://ur1.ca/9jx8w #diaspora #acta #eu | Jun 23 04:52 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: In bid for patent sanity, judge throws out entire Apple/Motorola case | Ars Technica .::. Size~: 34.91 KB | Jun 23 04:52 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Final Europarl Co... .::. Size~: 11.58 KB | Jun 23 04:52 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] How I Accidentally Kickstarted the Domestic #Drone Boom - http://bit.ly/LdWTtS good intro to important area | Jun 23 04:55 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "Committed to ecology, social justice grassroots democracy and non-violence" http://ur1.ca/9jx99 #greenparty #us | Jun 23 04:55 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: How I Accidentally Kickstarted the Domestic Drone Boom | Danger Room | Wired.com .::. Size~: 77.58 KB | Jun 23 04:55 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Green Party of the United States | About .::. Size~: 21.51 KB | Jun 23 04:55 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1732275 | Jun 23 04:55 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #GIMP 2.8 on Linux: a Story of Pride and Pain http://pclinuxos2007.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/gimp-28-on-linux-story-of-pride-and.html #gnu #linux | Jun 23 04:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: PCLinuxOS - the Big Daddy of all Desktop Linux Distributions: GIMP 2.8 on Linux: a Story of Pride and Pain .::. Size~: 105.26 KB | Jun 23 04:56 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 23 04:56 |
| schestowitz | This guy doesn't understand that DistributionA needs packages made for DistributionA, not DistributionB o DistributionZ... | Jun 23 04:56 |
| schestowitz | If he wants today's software in yesterday's systems, he shold (ask for someone to) make packages for it. | Jun 23 04:56 |
| schestowitz | Using wrong versions of packages (clearly made for other distributions) and complaining of breakage is... well, let's say "not intelligent". | Jun 23 04:56 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 23 04:56 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1734854 | Jun 23 04:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: ### CIA, NSA may have infiltrated Microsoft to write malware http://www.itworld.com/security/281553/researcher-warns-stuxnet-flame-show-microsoft-may-have-been-infiltrated-nsa-cia > A leading security researcher has suggested Microsoft's core Windows and application development programming teams have been infiltrated by covert programmer/operatives from U.S. intelligence agencies. #windows #microsoft #linux | Jun 23 04:56 |
| schestowitz | "They didn't infiltrate. They didn't have to. Three letter government agewncies have been live-in guests in the Microsoft programming department for over a decade to my knowledge." | Jun 23 04:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Researcher: CIA, NSA may have infiltrated Microsoft to write malware | ITworld .::. Size~: 134.92 KB | Jun 23 04:56 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] Almost 02:00 in the morning and I'm watching YT videos. http://ur1.ca/439vd /cc @patrickniedzielski | Jun 23 05:00 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Human League - Don't you want me 1982 - YouTube .::. Size~: 145.44 KB | Jun 23 05:00 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] Oh! @phoronix has an !identica account! nifty! | Jun 23 05:02 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "Obama accelerated covert cyber attacks against Iran that began during the Bush admin " http://ur1.ca/9jxa8 http://ur1.ca/9jxa9 #microsoft | Jun 23 05:04 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Stuxnet: U.S. Can Launch Cyberattacks But Not Defend Against Them, Experts Say .::. Size~: 460.46 KB | Jun 23 05:04 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: BBC News - Flame and Stuxnet makers 'co-operated' on code .::. Size~: 76.08 KB | Jun 23 05:04 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] obama+ballmer=campaign money (Ballmer and his wife), #lobbying http://ur1.ca/9jxfz http://ur1.ca/9jxg7 http://ur1.ca/9jxg8 | Jun 23 05:05 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Is Steve Ballmer Blackmailing Obama? | Techrights .::. Size~: 114.19 KB | Jun 23 05:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: United States of Steve Ballmer | Techrights .::. Size~: 106.72 KB | Jun 23 05:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Steve Ballmer Visits Obama Once Again as His Fight Against Google Continues | Techrights .::. Size~: 126.86 KB | Jun 23 05:05 |
| schestowitz | jono: https://twitter.com/davidgerard/status/216454773665304577?uid=26603208&iid=am-42194999313404418144352154&nid=27+236 | Jun 23 05:06 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @davidgerard: @schestowitz when Bacon writes something like that, it's always been him or his boss having really been a dick. What inspired it this time? | Jun 23 05:06 |
| schestowitz | was somebody gagged/censored by Ubuntu/Canonical? | Jun 23 05:07 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] ♻@edwinbendyk Alan #Turing nie popełnił samobójstwa, dziś Jack Copeland ujawni dowody przeciwko tezie o samobójstwie http://t.co/9lXzGCyp | Jun 23 05:07 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: BBC News - Alan Turing: Inquest's suicide verdict 'not supportable' .::. Size~: 93.16 KB | Jun 23 05:07 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Good morning! Here, I baked bread for y'all :-) http://ur1.ca/9jxhs... http://b1t.it/bE4a | Jun 23 05:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.61 KB | Jun 23 05:09 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Good morning! Here, I baked bread for y'all :-) .::. Size~: 125.83 KB | Jun 23 05:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Free #NVIDIA graphics driver reaches version 1.0 http://ur1.ca/9jxi2 blobs in the #kernel can have one's PC hijacked | Jun 23 05:10 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Free NVIDIA graphics driver reaches version 1.0 - The H Open: News and Features .::. Size~: 49.63 KB | Jun 23 05:10 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1735765 | Jun 23 05:13 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Based on debates I had with #Canonical staff yesterday, #ubuntu bending over to #Microsoft on #UEFI seems imminent. Disappointing. | Jun 23 05:13 |
| schestowitz | "Care to elaborate? Who did you talk to?" | Jun 23 05:13 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @rysiek @jacobwb :/ I don't get it, those accounts can be automagically linked with #twitter ones. | Jun 23 05:17 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] The fact that the UK government still hasn't pardoned Alan Turing is a real scandal IMHO. | Jun 23 05:19 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @eff Big telecoms should stay out of international Internet governance http://ur1.ca/9jubj | Jun 23 05:19 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @eff 5,000 signers on our newly launched Defend Innovation campaign against software patents. Help us get to 6,000: http://ur1.ca/9j6jw | Jun 23 05:19 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Global Telecom Governance Debated at European Parliament Workshop | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 41.35 KB | Jun 23 05:19 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Defend Innovation .::. Size~: 39.28 KB | Jun 23 05:19 |
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| schestowitz | "Care to share?" https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1736779 | Jun 23 05:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @randallr@joindiaspora.com: Critics and accusors ought to put forward their own proposal to fix the #uefi on #ubuntu issue. http://ur1.ca/9jrh4 I'm curious. What is *your* proposal Dr. Roy? What should #Canonical do? And, what should the community that is #ubuntu (and not Canonical do)? Is there a silver bullet we're all oblivious to? | Jun 23 05:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Ubuntu and UEFI | Techrights .::. Size~: 86.87 KB | Jun 23 05:24 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] @rysiek @jacobwb You can use something like Ping.fm and post to both at once. | Jun 23 05:25 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] And in case you wonder - this is the bread maker. http://ur1.ca/9jxl3... http://b1t.it/bE4k | Jun 23 05:29 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.61 KB | Jun 23 05:29 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - And in case you wonder - this is the bread maker. .::. Size~: 131.62 KB | Jun 23 05:29 |
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| iophk | http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/22/3111607/apple-v-motorola-judge-posner-dismisses-entire-patent-case | Jun 23 05:50 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Apple v. Motorola: Judge Posner dismisses entire patent case, no injunctions to be issued (update) | The Verge .::. Size~: 104.06 KB | Jun 23 05:50 |
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| oiaohm | iophk: that was a nice dead heat | Jun 23 05:55 |
| oiaohm | iophk: grant either injection disrupt market badly. | Jun 23 05:55 |
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| iophk | Yes, and he prevented them from wasting more time by refiling. 'With prejudice' means that neither can refile. | Jun 23 06:05 |
| iophk | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/06/in-bid-for-patent-sanity-judge-throws-out-entire-applemotorola-case/ | Jun 23 06:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: In bid for patent sanity, judge throws out entire Apple/Motorola case | Ars Technica .::. Size~: 34.98 KB | Jun 23 06:05 |
| oiaohm | iophk: and motorola will be happy with the out come of prejudice | Jun 23 06:09 |
| oiaohm | Since it means apple cannot bother then again. | Jun 23 06:09 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] I can see a *lot* Asians talking in the #ACTA twitter hashtag - anything particular happening in Asia now? !ACTA !copyfraud | Jun 23 06:25 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ml2mst/@ml2mst] Eeew, Microslop Windowze on the Manchester Alan #Turing Conference screen. I bet Turing would prefer #gnu #linux | Jun 23 06:25 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] Ctl+Shift+Alt+R in Gnome 3 triggers screencast recording and saves a .webm file in Video dir. Nice! http://ur1.ca/3w1j1 #in | Jun 23 06:34 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: GnomeShell/CheatSheet - GNOME Live! .::. Size~: 28.86 KB | Jun 23 06:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[silner/@silner] !Android | Judge Throws Out #Apple vs #Motorola Patent Case – Nobody’s Getting Banned… For Now http://goo.gl/9NRFg | Jun 23 06:39 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Judge Throws Out Apple vs Motorola Patent Case – Nobody’s Getting Banned… For Now .::. Size~: 39.49 KB | Jun 23 06:39 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[silner/@silner] RT @harishpillay Ctl+Shift+Alt+R in Gnome 3 triggers screencast recording and saves a .webm file in Video dir. Nice! http://ur1.ca/3w1j1 #in | Jun 23 06:42 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: GnomeShell/CheatSheet - GNOME Live! .::. Size~: 28.86 KB | Jun 23 06:42 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] This is the first #caturday after INTA !ACTA vote. RELEASE TEH CUTE KITTEHS! | Jun 23 07:02 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] WE HAVE CUTE CATS AND WE ARE NOT AFRAID TO USE THEM! bit.ly/MgpDVY cower before us in terror, !ACTA supporters. | Jun 23 07:05 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] A tribute to #Turing, the father of modern computing - http://bit.ly/LPe3E6 don't the turing doodle... | Jun 23 07:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Official Google Blog: A tribute to Turing, the father of modern computing .::. Size~: 25.53 KB | Jun 23 07:17 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] Get your copy of JBoss Developer Studio 5.0 and deploy your apps to http://ur1.ca/9a4s1 - http://ur1.ca/9jy3s #in | Jun 23 07:19 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: OpenShift by Red Hat .::. Size~: 9.74 KB | Jun 23 07:19 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: JBoss Developer Studio - Early Access - Build 5.0.0.v20120615-1714-H213-GA .::. Size~: 8.83 KB | Jun 23 07:19 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] After Oracle, OpenSolaris rises again - http://bit.ly/LpoDAf good to know | Jun 23 07:20 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: After Oracle, OpenSolaris rises again | Open Source Software - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 104.34 KB | Jun 23 07:20 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] JBoss Dev Studio 5.0 has smarts to deploy your apps to OpenShift - JBDS: http://ur1.ca/9jy3s #in | Jun 23 07:24 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: JBoss Developer Studio - Early Access - Build 5.0.0.v20120615-1714-H213-GA .::. Size~: 8.83 KB | Jun 23 07:24 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Chilling with @migetan and @robanskie | Jun 23 07:25 | |
| Omega | http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29834/ | Jun 23 07:44 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Idea #29834: "More reliable and thorough information for users, and not diluting Free Software" - Ubuntu brainstorm .::. Size~: 53.73 KB | Jun 23 07:44 |
| Omega | Can someone with an account clear up Auzy's misconception | Jun 23 07:44 |
| Omega | "If you modify GPL software, you MUST distribute your software changes. If you use GPL3 software on devices, you MUST allow the firmware on the device to be externally modifiable. " | Jun 23 07:45 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] #ni Mapzen POI Collector. !osm | Jun 23 07:47 | |
| oiaohm | Omega: not correct | Jun 23 07:47 |
| oiaohm | GPLv3 does not have to allow the firmware to be externally modifiable. | Jun 23 07:47 |
| oiaohm | Ie if GPLv3 is placed on a rom chip | Jun 23 07:48 |
| oiaohm | Not against the rules. | Jun 23 07:48 |
| oiaohm | GPLv3 does limit some ways you can restrict flash from being replacable. | Jun 23 07:48 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] ♻ @iloveubuntu: #Ubuntu in the wild: a little girl's reaction to Ubuntu 12.04 http://ur1.ca/9jy5d | Jun 23 07:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Ubuntu in the wild: a little girl's reaction to Ubuntu 12.04 | Iloveubuntu: Ubuntu blog .::. Size~: 32.35 KB | Jun 23 07:49 |
| oiaohm | Omega: remember dvd/cd not changable either. | Jun 23 07:50 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] "You do not have permission to open this page. mapzen:osm_callback? oauth_token=ygy67ZBPGlZO2MpH55xRlb1" Authentication failure :-( | Jun 23 07:55 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] http://ur1.ca/57bug oAuth authentication error. | Jun 23 07:57 | |
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| MinceR | geekings | Jun 23 07:58 |
| Omega | oiaohm: and you are not forced to distribute your software changes if it's just for private use | Jun 23 07:59 |
| oiaohm | Omega: or internal company. | Jun 23 08:02 |
| Omega | I don't have the login details of my brainstorm account handy so I can't reply | Jun 23 08:04 |
| oiaohm | Omega: gpl only forces source to be given to those who receive the program. | Jun 23 08:05 |
| Omega | indeed | Jun 23 08:05 |
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| oiaohm | Omega: 3. Protecting Users' Legal Rights From Anti-Circumvention Law. << its this seciton of gplv3 that is miss read. | Jun 23 08:21 |
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| oiaohm | Omega: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html | Jun 23 08:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The GNU General Public License v3.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) .::. Size~: 44.35 KB | Jun 23 08:23 |
| oiaohm | Basically you can use measures to prevent users replacing firmware. | Jun 23 08:23 |
| oiaohm | But if they do succeed you have given up you right to legally hunt users down for doing it. | Jun 23 08:24 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia - http://bit.ly/LoLAW0 powerful piece about a cartel of greed (v @boingboing) | Jun 23 08:27 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia | Politics News | Rolling Stone .::. Size~: 68.82 KB | Jun 23 08:27 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Rbutr finds contrary opinions for stories you’re reading - http://bit.ly/O99AO0 intriguing #journalism | Jun 23 08:29 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] The NYPD kills again - http://bit.ly/LPoirN awful if confirmed | Jun 23 08:32 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The NYPD kills again | SocialistWorker.org .::. Size~: 29.19 KB | Jun 23 08:32 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Die EU will immer noch Netz-Sperren, jetzt sogar weltweit - http://bit.ly/L3et5s even though it won't address the problem | Jun 23 08:34 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Die EU will immer noch Netz-Sperren, jetzt sogar weltweit › netzpolitik.org .::. Size~: 65.05 KB | Jun 23 08:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Henryk Górecki: Chronological Collection - http://bit.ly/KEJfoB don't miss the wonderful concerto for harpsichord & string quartet #spotify | Jun 23 08:39 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Spotify Classical Playlists: Henryk Górecki: Chronological Collection .::. Size~: 124.47 KB | Jun 23 08:39 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Ungelivable - http://bit.ly/L3gI8Q nice discussion of factitious chinglishisms #linguistics | Jun 23 08:45 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Language Log » Ungelivable .::. Size~: 60.44 KB | Jun 23 08:45 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Amazon Studios goes head-to-head with Netflix, selects first 4 original TV projects for production - http://tnw.co/POu7nS 1st books, now TV | Jun 23 08:50 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Amazon Studios Selects First Four Original TV Projects, Rivals Netflix .::. Size~: 106.92 KB | Jun 23 08:50 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] Video showing how easy it is to use JBoss Dev Studio and work with OpenShift - http://ur1.ca/9jyjt #in | Jun 23 09:02 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] RT @glynmoody A tribute to #Turing, the father of modern computing - http://bit.ly/LPe3E6 don't the turing doodle... | Jun 23 09:02 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Getting started with OpenShift using JBoss Tools on Vimeo .::. Size~: 31.43 KB | Jun 23 09:02 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Official Google Blog: A tribute to Turing, the father of modern computing .::. Size~: 25.53 KB | Jun 23 09:02 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] US coach #JerrySandusky #guilty of #PennState sex abuse http://goo.gl/2TERw | Jun 23 09:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: BBC News - US coach Jerry Sandusky guilty of Penn State sex abuse .::. Size~: 85.34 KB | Jun 23 09:17 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Internet trolls target newlyweds http://goo.gl/lp8WW | Jun 23 09:22 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Internet trolls target newlyweds | UK news | The Guardian .::. Size~: 62.29 KB | Jun 23 09:22 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] the #Sun doing what comes naturaly to them http://goo.gl/l41zM linch mobs going after a celeb to find any excuse to smear them for profit | Jun 23 09:25 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jimmy Carr's dad speaks on his eight-year feud with his tax-dodging son | The Sun |News .::. Size~: 58.7 KB | Jun 23 09:25 |
| brendyn | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEyNDY | Jun 23 09:33 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: [Phoronix] Ubuntu's Plans To Implement UEFI SecureBoot: No GRUB2 .::. Size~: 20.33 KB | Jun 23 09:33 |
| brendyn | im not really sure if their doing anything bad since i dont know much about how uefi works. is this a gpl problem? | Jun 23 09:33 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Laocoön - http://tcrn.ch/MqBx13 an entertainingly odd, and oddly entertaining little piece... #conway #apple | Jun 23 09:37 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Laocoön | TechCrunch .::. Size~: 67.28 KB | Jun 23 09:37 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jankusanagi/@jankusanagi] @rysiek forgotten (surprise!), but yes | Jun 23 09:39 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Me = proud. Entertainment center working. Projector, motorized screen, all cables invisible, all working! https://plus... http://b1t.it/bE7h | Jun 23 09:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Couldn't resolve host 'plus...' ( https://plus... ) | Jun 23 09:49 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Me = proud. Entertainment center working. Projector,… .::. Size~: 134.6 KB | Jun 23 09:49 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] ♺ @glynmoody: The NYPD kills again - http://bit.ly/LPoirN awful if confirmed - laws should apply equally to everyone #landofthefree | Jun 23 10:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The NYPD kills again | SocialistWorker.org .::. Size~: 29.19 KB | Jun 23 10:14 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Smart TVs are vulnerable to attacks http://goo.gl/L1srQ #security | Jun 23 10:25 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Smart TVs are vulnerable to attacks .::. Size~: 40.98 KB | Jun 23 10:25 |
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| ---Justin-- is now known as Justin_- | Jun 23 10:40 | |
| Justin_- | hey I've seen some articles on techrights.org saying c# is a poor choice, I wondered if anyone could tell me more and what the alternatives are | Jun 23 10:42 |
| MinceR | first of all, there's the language they copied badly to make it: java | Jun 23 10:42 |
| MinceR | but in general it depends on what you're trying to do | Jun 23 10:43 |
| Justin_- | I want type safety, garbage collection, no risk of memory corruption, and native performance as a minimum | Jun 23 10:44 |
| MinceR | D might also do that, though i haven't tried it yet | Jun 23 10:45 |
| Justin_- | and no need to work alongside a language missing these features, like the C/python paradigm | Jun 23 10:45 |
| MinceR | you can use a garbage collector with C++ | Jun 23 10:45 |
| MinceR | but yes, the primary answer would seem to be Java there | Jun 23 10:46 |
| Justin_- | I really like C++, a miss some things from C++ in C#, but memory corruption is an issue | Jun 23 10:46 |
| MinceR | what memory corruption? | Jun 23 10:46 |
| MinceR | misuse of pointers? | Jun 23 10:47 |
| Justin_- | yeah | Jun 23 10:47 |
| MinceR | you could use safer pointer classes, i think | Jun 23 10:47 |
| MinceR | (or smarter) | Jun 23 10:48 |
| Justin_- | true | Jun 23 10:48 |
| Justin_- | there are details though about using a gc and safe memory access in C++ that I didn't find workable, it's a lot of why I switched to C# | Jun 23 10:49 |
| Justin_- | D looks interesting though, is the performance good? | Jun 23 10:50 |
| MinceR | Qt also offers implicit sharing which lets you hand objects around as if you were passing them by value and yet avoid most of the overhead from it | Jun 23 10:51 |
| MinceR | (for C++) | Jun 23 10:51 |
| Justin_- | nice | Jun 23 10:51 |
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| MinceR | i don't know D too well, and apparently it has disappeared from the benchmarks at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ | Jun 23 10:52 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Computer Language Benchmarks Game .::. Size~: 31.76 KB | Jun 23 10:52 |
| Justin_- | it looks like it does compile into native code | Jun 23 10:53 |
| Justin_- | unlike python etc | Jun 23 10:53 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Opponents of gay marriages say it will 'open the door to polygamy and incest' http://goo.gl/Qjlyx lol clueless FUD | Jun 23 10:54 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Opponents of gay marriages say it will 'open the door to polygamy and incest' | Society | The Observer .::. Size~: 260.64 KB | Jun 23 10:54 |
| MinceR | to be fair, there are ways to accelerate python | Jun 23 10:54 |
| MinceR | (but i haven't tried them yet) | Jun 23 10:54 |
| MinceR | PyPy, Psyco, Pyrex | Jun 23 10:54 |
| MinceR | and many others | Jun 23 10:54 |
| Justin_- | true but I mean in dynamically typed languages where any symbol can have any meaning and be changed at any time, the framework has to be there to accommodate those changes | Jun 23 10:55 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jun 23 10:56 |
| MinceR | but that framework doesn't have to be particularly heavy | Jun 23 10:56 |
| Justin_- | I don't know but you definitely can't just assert that 'X' and 'Y' will be ints and compile X+=Y to an "add" instruction and leave it at that | Jun 23 10:57 |
| MinceR | theoretically, a JIT compiler/optimizer can do that | Jun 23 10:57 |
| MinceR | and be ready for the case when they happen to be something else :) | Jun 23 10:57 |
| Justin_- | right | Jun 23 10:57 |
| Justin_- | javascript is getting pretty speedy based on that | Jun 23 10:57 |
| Justin_- | I don't like the dynamic approach programmatically either though | Jun 23 10:58 |
| Justin_- | it introduces corruption risks | Jun 23 10:58 |
| Justin_- | like you mistype something and it manifests as errata | Jun 23 10:58 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Cc +Ricarda Riechert. Hatte Heute auch Post. http://ur1.ca/9jz0j... http://b1t.it/bE7X | Jun 23 10:59 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.61 KB | Jun 23 10:59 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Cc +Ricarda Riechert. Hatte Heute auch Post. .::. Size~: 128.81 KB | Jun 23 10:59 |
| Justin_- | because there is no compiler, no way to assert ahead of time that 'X' will even be defined, let alone with a type that is coherent with your statement | Jun 23 10:59 |
| Justin_- | so you have to just run your code and hope you notice if something isn't doing what it should | Jun 23 10:59 |
| MinceR | you could write unit tests though :) | Jun 23 11:00 |
| Justin_- | true | Jun 23 11:00 |
| MinceR | and check types | Jun 23 11:00 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Tax revenue stalled by tribunals and lack of staff 'in the billions' http://goo.gl/4Qh7m it's like they just noticed it was going on | Jun 23 11:00 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Tax revenue stalled by tribunals and lack of staff 'in the billions' | Business | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 135.75 KB | Jun 23 11:00 |
| Justin_- | it's just a personal preference | Jun 23 11:01 |
| MinceR | i understand | Jun 23 11:01 |
| MinceR | i'm more on the side of declaring types too | Jun 23 11:01 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] this was the football coach that the fans rallied to claim as "innocent" & "smeared" cause he was good for their team http://goo.gl/9f3wK | Jun 23 11:02 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jerry Sandusky found guilty of Penn State sexual abuse | World news | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 128.59 KB | Jun 23 11:02 |
| Justin_- | I can't exactly tell you why I don't like java, I just find myself having to work harder | Jun 23 11:03 |
| Justin_- | everything feels fussier, more typing, more hoops to jump through to get things done | Jun 23 11:03 |
| Justin_- | and it seems to have a lot of classes I don't want | Jun 23 11:04 |
| MinceR | at least it's properly documented, unlike c# | Jun 23 11:04 |
| Justin_- | I thought the opposite was true, tell me more | Jun 23 11:05 |
| MinceR | i found the official documentation for c# sorely lacking, with the (badly named) "Remarks" section being empty or just missing what the class was meant to do | Jun 23 11:07 |
| MinceR | also, iirc in java there is a way to initialize a static const member of a non-primitive type | Jun 23 11:07 |
| MinceR | in c# i ended up making it non-static or non-constant, i can't remember which | Jun 23 11:07 |
| Justin_- | right I completely agree, sometimes the remarks sections are just bizarre, and C# is really fussy about class member initializations for some reason and it's so infuriating | Jun 23 11:08 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] I think I have been a good boy today and thus am entitled to a beer this evening. Which unfortunately means I will hav... http://b1t.it/bE70 | Jun 23 11:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - I think I have been a good boy today and thus am entitled… .::. Size~: 125.13 KB | Jun 23 11:09 |
| Justin_- | there's no good reason why I should have to write out a bunch of assignments in the constructor instead of inlining them in the class definition, I miss that from C++, it's not hard to organize it in the compiler | Jun 23 11:09 |
| Justin_- | it's ghetto | Jun 23 11:09 |
| Justin_- | it's bad practice too, it's just unclean, splits up the definition of members so you have to poke around to get the whole picture, which kind of conflicts with the goals of c#, it's bizarre | Jun 23 11:10 |
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| Justin_- | D definitely looks interesting, thanks again | Jun 23 11:18 |
| MinceR | np | Jun 23 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Just wondering have you every played with vala Justin_- | Jun 23 11:19 |
| <--jono has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | Jun 23 11:20 | |
| Justin_- | I think I remember hearing the name but that's about it lol | Jun 23 11:20 |
| Justin_- | vala looks really interesting | Jun 23 11:21 |
| oiaohm | https://live.gnome.org/Vala/ | Jun 23 11:21 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Vala - GNOME Live! .::. Size~: 11.82 KB | Jun 23 11:21 |
| Justin_- | it has pointers and reference counting though | Jun 23 11:21 |
| Justin_- | and it seems to be gnome specific | Jun 23 11:22 |
| MinceR | what's wrong with reference counting? | Jun 23 11:22 |
| MinceR | it's not gnome-specific | Jun 23 11:22 |
| Justin_- | A.p = B; B.p = A; <- leak? | Jun 23 11:22 |
| MinceR | it uses C and GObject | Jun 23 11:22 |
| Justin_- | isn't gobject part of gnome? | Jun 23 11:23 |
| MinceR | not sure, reference-counting systems tend to include ways of handling that | Jun 23 11:23 |
| MinceR | no, GObject is part of GTK+ | Jun 23 11:23 |
| Justin_- | oh sorry | Jun 23 11:23 |
| MinceR | oops | Jun 23 11:23 |
| MinceR | more like part of glib | Jun 23 11:23 |
| MinceR | GTK+ does use glib though :) | Jun 23 11:23 |
| Justin_- | gtk = gnome toolkit, glib = gnome lib? | Jun 23 11:23 |
| MinceR | no | Jun 23 11:23 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: just in time I was about to pounce on you for that one. | Jun 23 11:23 |
| MinceR | GTK+ was originally named after Gimp | Jun 23 11:23 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: gtk and glib both predate gnome existance. | Jun 23 11:23 |
| Justin_- | oh I see hm, I thought it was gnome sorry | Jun 23 11:23 |
| MinceR | not sure what glib was named after, but i'm pretty sure both GTK+ and glib predate gnome | Jun 23 11:23 |
| MinceR | many people believe that :> | Jun 23 11:24 |
| oiaohm | Both g in gtk and glib stand for graphics | Jun 23 11:24 |
| oiaohm | Yes both part of gimp development. | Jun 23 11:24 |
| Justin_- | personally I'm not so fond of the 2 language approach, python etc where the exposed language has practical limitations and depends on another language, usually C | Jun 23 11:26 |
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| MinceR | there's no "one language to rule them all", though :> | Jun 23 11:27 |
| Justin_- | I'm not advocating c# as superior to every other possibility, it has a lot of drawbacks and something better will come along if it hasn't already | Jun 23 11:27 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: really for a person like me there are a lot of other solutions to c# including lua | Jun 23 11:28 |
| oiaohm | lua natively can call out to c and c++ libraries. | Jun 23 11:28 |
| Justin_- | right that's what I'm saying I don't want, a language that depends on code written in other languages, and that always will due to design limitations | Jun 23 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: c# cannot work without code written in other languages. | Jun 23 11:30 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: just as much as lua | Jun 23 11:30 |
| Justin_- | why? | Jun 23 11:30 |
| oiaohm | lua is the smallest jit in existance so small it fits in the cpu l1 cache. | Jun 23 11:31 |
| oiaohm | So can be as fast as native code for real. | Jun 23 11:31 |
| oiaohm | In fact at times faster. | Jun 23 11:31 |
| oiaohm | Yes this is why lua is used in some games for game logic | Jun 23 11:32 |
| MinceR | Justin_-: because those languages need a VM of some kind, which can't run on itself | Jun 23 11:32 |
| oiaohm | its faster to use lua than native code. | Jun 23 11:32 |
| MinceR | in the end, you'll need a language to write part (or whole) of the OS in that doesn't need much runtime support, like C | Jun 23 11:32 |
| Justin_- | c# doesn't run in a virtual machine, it's compiled into native machine code and excuted | Jun 23 11:33 |
| MinceR | even then, kernel code won't have access to most of the standard library | Jun 23 11:33 |
| MinceR | afaik that native code still needs runtime support | Jun 23 11:33 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: you did not jsut get it. | Jun 23 11:33 |
| oiaohm | lua is that small that it acts like you are using a compressed binary. | Jun 23 11:33 |
| Justin_- | you can write a bytecode to machine code translator in almost any language, it's simple logic and math | Jun 23 11:33 |
| MinceR | many languages are compiled to native code in runtime | Jun 23 11:33 |
| oiaohm | So cpu can hold more executable code in its cache. | Jun 23 11:34 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: I understand, that sounds like a real advantage for performance in a lot of cases | Jun 23 11:34 |
| MinceR | yes, but that translator isn't going to write the code that manages your memory and objects | Jun 23 11:34 |
| MinceR | let alone lower level code like interfacing with the hardware and task scheduling | Jun 23 11:34 |
| Justin_- | microsoft has a gc written in c#, I had an email conversation about a year ago with someone at there about it | Jun 23 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: then being able to reach back to c and c++ libraries for stuff that is not good for lua makes lua very had to beat. | Jun 23 11:35 |
| Justin_- | they're working on a 100% c# kernel, completely self hosted | Jun 23 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: I have seen there c# kernel. | Jun 23 11:35 |
| Justin_- | the initial bootstapping machine code being emitted by the jit on another machine | Jun 23 11:35 |
| MinceR | for how long have they been "working" on it? | Jun 23 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: it is a failure. | Jun 23 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: microsoft has given up on it. | Jun 23 11:36 |
| Justin_- | they had a working version years ago, bootable | Jun 23 11:36 |
| Justin_- | I think the project started maybe 5 years ago, I could be wrong | Jun 23 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Yes but it still was a failure. | Jun 23 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Issue is c# operation does not match how hardware operates. | Jun 23 11:36 |
| Justin_- | I don't know about that either way but the concept wasn't a failure, they were able to design a basic self hosted c# kernel, boot it, interface with hardware, and dynamically execute programs written in c# | Jun 23 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Its like all the attempts to make a pure java OS | Jun 23 11:37 |
| Justin_- | right sun has a pure java os that never went anywhere | Jun 23 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: there are many of them. | Jun 23 11:37 |
| oiaohm | There are about 4 pure java OS's. | Jun 23 11:37 |
| Justin_- | nice | Jun 23 11:38 |
| oiaohm | There are about 2 .net based ones. | Jun 23 11:38 |
| oiaohm | All run into the same basic problem. | Jun 23 11:38 |
| Justin_- | what's that? | Jun 23 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Hardware was designed around how C does stuff. | Jun 23 11:38 |
| Justin_- | can you be more specific? | Jun 23 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Pointers | Jun 23 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Lots of. | Jun 23 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Including magic blocking of memory | Jun 23 11:39 |
| oiaohm | and complete disrespect for the idea of garbage collection. | Jun 23 11:39 |
| Justin_- | I mean as someone who's done a lot of kernel development and written a lot of x86 assembly including ring 0, can you give me specifics? | Jun 23 11:39 |
| Justin_- | what's magic blocking of memory? | Jun 23 11:40 |
| oiaohm | What firmware does to you at times. Allocates you a pointer to somewhere. Once some other requests are done overwrites what you have the pointer to without telling you. | Jun 23 11:41 |
| oiaohm | So you better copy what you requested and other things. | Jun 23 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Also at times clearing a block the hardware will still be refering it. | Jun 23 11:42 |
| Justin_- | right, you have to be able to access arbitrary memory locations for certain parts of the kernel on x86 | Jun 23 11:42 |
| oiaohm | And the rules will be the hardware own idea not your OS's. | Jun 23 11:42 |
| oiaohm | So it argues with garbage collection really simply. | Jun 23 11:43 |
| Justin_- | c# garbage collection isn't like c++ gc | Jun 23 11:43 |
| Justin_- | it's not based on scanning memory for pointers | Jun 23 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Neither is Java | Jun 23 11:43 |
| oiaohm | But it does not matter. | Jun 23 11:43 |
| Justin_- | all alllocated class instance sin c# are like a hierarchy | Jun 23 11:43 |
| Justin_- | you can iterate over the tree of reachable class instances | Jun 23 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Hardware does not obey C# collection ideas all the time. | Jun 23 11:44 |
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| Justin_- | it's not related, it's a simple logical algorithm | Jun 23 11:44 |
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| Justin_- | like linux heap slabs etc | Jun 23 11:44 |
| Justin_- | just simple data structures | Jun 23 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: look in side the Linux kernel. | Jun 23 11:44 |
| Justin_- | I have, extensively | Jun 23 11:44 |
| oiaohm | You will notice in places its avoids using it slab system. | Jun 23 11:45 |
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| oiaohm | Because hardware is not slab compadible. | Jun 23 11:45 |
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| oiaohm | That is the mungrel of hardware. | Jun 23 11:45 |
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| Justin_- | my point is that the c# gc is a simple algorithm, you can lay it out in ansi compliant C and run it in any C environment including within the linux kernel | Jun 23 11:46 |
| Justin_- | it's basically just following a chain of data structures | Jun 23 11:46 |
| Justin_- | there's nothing low level about it, requiring hardware support or memory scanning etc | Jun 23 11:46 |
| MinceR | it will only work on C code that avoids doing certain things | Jun 23 11:46 |
| Justin_- | I don't mean you can apply it to C code | Jun 23 11:46 |
| oiaohm | Exactly as Mincer said is the problem Justin_- | Jun 23 11:47 |
| Justin_- | C pointers can be copied and accessed as bytes | Jun 23 11:47 |
| Justin_- | it's legal in C to take a pointer and encrypt the bytes, write them to a file etc | Jun 23 11:47 |
| Justin_- | and expect them to remain valid | Jun 23 11:47 |
| oiaohm | I did not say the garbage collection cannot be placed in c. | Jun 23 11:47 |
| Justin_- | writing a conclusive C gc is impossible | Jun 23 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Its a case that c support stuff. | Jun 23 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Like pointers from no where. | Jun 23 11:47 |
| Justin_- | yes | Jun 23 11:47 |
| oiaohm | And hardware do these nasty things to you. | Jun 23 11:48 |
| Justin_- | C has different requirements and you can't use the c# gc to garbage collect C memory | Jun 23 11:48 |
| Justin_- | I'm saying that the requirements to garbage collect c# are very, very simple | Jun 23 11:48 |
| Justin_- | it's a simple algorithm that iterates over data structures | Jun 23 11:48 |
| oiaohm | And what I am saying is the reality it hardware is evil. | Jun 23 11:48 |
| Justin_- | you can dump every reachable class instance in a c# program using about a simple loop | Jun 23 11:48 |
| oiaohm | It will do all the C requirement to you. | Jun 23 11:48 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @jenssegers man, die school van jou is nogal incompetent | Jun 23 11:49 | |
| oiaohm | So not matching what ever garbage collector you wish to us. | Jun 23 11:49 |
| oiaohm | us/use | Jun 23 11:49 |
| Justin_- | it has nothing to do with the c# gc | Jun 23 11:49 |
| Justin_- | which is simple program logic | Jun 23 11:49 |
| oiaohm | When using C# classes you end up using gc | Jun 23 11:49 |
| oiaohm | That can dig you into hole quicky with some nasty hardware. | Jun 23 11:50 |
| Justin_- | that's not accurate | Jun 23 11:50 |
| oiaohm | It is accurate | Jun 23 11:50 |
| Justin_- | the c# gc is as simple as iterating over some data structures and deciding which to deallocate | Jun 23 11:50 |
| Justin_- | it's not the same as a C gc | Jun 23 11:51 |
| Justin_- | which needs to scan memory and guess about pointer values | Jun 23 11:51 |
| oiaohm | False. | Jun 23 11:51 |
| oiaohm | There is more than one form of C | Jun 23 11:51 |
| Justin_- | well I'm not trying to criticize C, it's just that you seem to have the expectation that c# has the same requirements | Jun 23 11:52 |
| Justin_- | c# is simple in terms of memory, you can't do a lot of what C allows | Jun 23 11:52 |
| Justin_- | but it also means that you can look at a c# program in memory and just list what's what | Jun 23 11:53 |
| oiaohm | Problem is hardware requires you to be able todo everything C allows. | Jun 23 11:53 |
| Justin_- | right | Jun 23 11:53 |
| Justin_- | you have to be able to access arbitrary memory locations to write an x86 kernel | Jun 23 11:53 |
| oiaohm | That is what has brought java and .net attempts down. | Jun 23 11:53 |
| Justin_- | no it's not | Jun 23 11:53 |
| oiaohm | At OS. | Jun 23 11:53 |
| oiaohm | O yes it has. | Jun 23 11:53 |
| Justin_- | there are working c# and java kernels | Jun 23 11:53 |
| oiaohm | Because the code todo it gets more and more complex. | Jun 23 11:53 |
| Justin_- | actually it's very simple | Jun 23 11:54 |
| Justin_- | C pointer syntax is just tacked onto c# | Jun 23 11:54 |
| Justin_- | it's called "unsafe" syntax | Jun 23 11:54 |
| cubezzz | ha, funny, you going to write the bios in C# too? :) | Jun 23 11:54 |
| Justin_- | you can | Jun 23 11:54 |
| oiaohm | I know the unsafe syntax | Jun 23 11:54 |
| oiaohm | java has a equal. | Jun 23 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Both bind up badly. | Jun 23 11:54 |
| Justin_- | you can write c# code that will emit byte-for-byte identical machine code to C | Jun 23 11:54 |
| cubezzz | I avoid microsoft inventions | Jun 23 11:55 |
| Justin_- | it's just simple program logic | Jun 23 11:55 |
| MinceR | there's such a thing as a "microsoft invention"? :> | Jun 23 11:55 |
| Justin_- | there's nothing magical about C | Jun 23 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: really there is something magical. | Jun 23 11:55 |
| MinceR | well, i guess anti-competitive OEM deals are | Jun 23 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: have you ever coded in oop structs in C | Jun 23 11:55 |
| cubezzz | MinceR, microsoft bob :) | Jun 23 11:55 |
| oiaohm | And how they can be bent. | Jun 23 11:55 |
| cubezzz | they invented it | Jun 23 11:55 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: yes | Jun 23 11:55 |
| MinceR | right | Jun 23 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Linux kernel contains some right. | Jun 23 11:56 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: and they can do things C# or java would forbid | Jun 23 11:56 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: yes, that's correct | Jun 23 11:56 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: and those things are hardware requirement. | Jun 23 11:56 |
| Justin_- | you can't write a kernel in straight c# syntax, you need to provide syntax or a pseudo-api for random memory access and use it in certain parts of the kernel | Jun 23 11:56 |
| Justin_- | at least on x86 | Jun 23 11:56 |
| Justin_- | but you can do that completely self hosted, no C | Jun 23 11:57 |
| cubezzz | why in the world are you talking about C# in here? | Jun 23 11:57 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: then you run into have to extra copy memory and other things. | Jun 23 11:57 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] And we're taking the word "hacker" back! ♻ @brokep: Power is shifting. Not a day goes by without hacktivists in the media. #Acta is proof. | Jun 23 11:57 | |
| cubezzz | it's totally off-topic | Jun 23 11:57 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: that end up costing performance. | Jun 23 11:57 |
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| Justin_- | I was reading some articles on techrights.org that were talking about c# and they linked to this to ask questions, so I did | Jun 23 11:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: lua or forth based OS would be more possible than java and .net | Jun 23 11:58 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: c# has no performance hit for accessing pointers, it emits the same machine code as C | Jun 23 11:58 |
| Justin_- | you can translate a C program directly into c# using unsafe syntax and compile the identical machine code | Jun 23 11:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: it does when you start trying to take the data back into c# oop | Jun 23 11:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: same with java oop | Jun 23 11:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: the oop of the language does not match what the hardware wants. | Jun 23 11:59 |
| Justin_- | I agree with that, as soon as you start using c# arrays you have bounds checking and that involves some extra instructions | Jun 23 11:59 |
| Justin_- | so there is some performance penalty there | Jun 23 11:59 |
| -->pidgin_log (~roy@host109-149-155-236.range109-149.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 11:59 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: hardware returned array into a c#array to use oop between drivers how is that going to hurt. | Jun 23 11:59 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: C can avoid converting a lot. | Jun 23 12:00 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: it depends, there are a lot of possibilities, but the main cost would be bounds checking, an extra cmp instruction for each index into the array | Jun 23 12:00 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] Dear !identica !statusnet could we please have the "Could not subscribe to feed." #bug fixed? #atom #rss | Jun 23 12:00 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Linux kernel contains bounds checking. | Jun 23 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: its the means to alter how based on what the hardware gives you. | Jun 23 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: ie round peg square hole problem. | Jun 23 12:01 |
| cubezzz | we don't use C# because we don't trust microsoft | Jun 23 12:01 |
| cubezzz | end of story | Jun 23 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: and MS .net and the other .net attempt found that same with the java attempts. | Jun 23 12:02 |
| cubezzz | the philosophical argument trumps the technical ones | Jun 23 12:02 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: your theory doesn't have a technical basis that I can see | Jun 23 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: It does have a techical base. OOP structs you do wish to use. | Jun 23 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: those oop structs have to be compadible with what hardware will spit at you. | Jun 23 12:03 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: .net and java don't pass that. | Jun 23 12:03 |
| Justin_- | you could compile the entire linux kernel using a c# jit compiler | Jun 23 12:03 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: c++ has been got away with. | Jun 23 12:03 |
| Justin_- | by translating the linux source into c# with unsafe syntax | Jun 23 12:03 |
| Justin_- | and you'd produce the identical machine code | Jun 23 12:03 |
| Justin_- | language syntax isn't that complicated | Jun 23 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: most likely you would not produce identical machine code. | Jun 23 12:04 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: unless you made something completely insane to read. | Jun 23 12:04 |
| Justin_- | there are a lot of languages that all express the same simple logic with different sugar, like pascal and basic | Jun 23 12:04 |
| Justin_- | if you translate a C program into pascal, it generates the same machine code | Jun 23 12:04 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Jun 23 12:04 |
| cubezzz | pffft | Jun 23 12:05 |
| Justin_- | I'm on techrights.org/irc-channel/ | Jun 23 12:05 |
| oiaohm | you cannot get identical c code out of pascel in all cases. | Jun 23 12:05 |
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| oiaohm | There are somethings pascel flat out forbids. | Jun 23 12:05 |
| Justin_- | I don't know about all cases but the basic concept of pointer arithmetic compiles into the same machine code, it's not that complicated | Jun 23 12:05 |
| Justin_- | mov ebx, eax[12] etc | Jun 23 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: difference is C was not designed to forbid anything from the machine code levle. | Jun 23 12:06 |
| oiaohm | C# java pascel and basic all forbid doing particular things. | Jun 23 12:06 |
| Justin_- | actually ansi C disallows a lot of things that are common practice, like assigning a function pointer to a void* | Jun 23 12:06 |
| MinceR | 180447 < Justin_-> if you translate a C program into pascal, it generates the same machine code | Jun 23 12:06 |
| MinceR | most C programs can't be directly expressed in pascal | Jun 23 12:06 |
| cubezzz | I bet two different C compilers don't generate the exact same code either | Jun 23 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: sorry ansi C allows assigning a function to void * by cast. | Jun 23 12:07 |
| Justin_- | I'm not saying the entire program file will be bit for bit identical between two different languages or compilers, I mean that A+B will generate an "add" instruction, P[10] will generate "eax[10]" etc.. | Jun 23 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: its compliers that hate that. | Jun 23 12:07 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: that's not accurate, ansi C defines function and data pointers as separate, so that for example you can have a machine where a function pointer is an index into a static array of functions, and a data pointer is a pointer into a memory bus | Jun 23 12:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Reshared post from Nicole van Rossum http://ur1.ca/9jzbp | Jun 23 12:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Thank you :) .::. Size~: 135.56 KB | Jun 23 12:09 |
| Justin_- | or for example you can have function pointers that have added security or stability data for whatever reason | Jun 23 12:09 |
| Justin_- | like canary values or whatever | Jun 23 12:09 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: notes I said cast. | Jun 23 12:09 |
| oiaohm | (void *) to convert the function pointer to at data pointer. | Jun 23 12:10 |
| Justin_- | yes I'm saying ansi C says you can't cast them, any more than (char)2181 is necessarily valid (2181 being > 127) | Jun 23 12:10 |
| oiaohm | It is allowed. | Jun 23 12:10 |
| Justin_- | by your compiler maybe | Jun 23 12:10 |
| Justin_- | not by the standard | Jun 23 12:10 |
| oiaohm | No I have read the standard. | Jun 23 12:10 |
| oiaohm | Its not forbin. | Jun 23 12:10 |
| Justin_- | maybe we read different documents | Jun 23 12:10 |
| oiaohm | A function pointer is an address. | Jun 23 12:11 |
| Justin_- | that's an implementation detail | Jun 23 12:11 |
| oiaohm | You are allowed to extract that address to void* | Jun 23 12:11 |
| Justin_- | you are allowed to access the bytes of a function pointer | Jun 23 12:11 |
| oiaohm | Now to use it as a function again you have to conver tit back. | Jun 23 12:11 |
| Justin_- | but for example, a machine where function pointers are 6 bytes and data pointers are 4 bytes is valid under ansi C | Jun 23 12:11 |
| oiaohm | And what lenth is a void * | Jun 23 12:12 |
| Justin_- | like sizeof(void (*)(void)) > sizeof(void*) is valid under ansi C | Jun 23 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Evil point | Jun 23 12:12 |
| cubezzz | C# is an imitation of java, so they say | Jun 23 12:12 |
| Justin_- | I agree, it is | Jun 23 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Techically sizeof(void*) is invalid. | Jun 23 12:12 |
| MinceR | c# is a bad clone of java :> | Jun 23 12:13 |
| cubezzz | what I don't understand is why anyone would want to use C# | Jun 23 12:13 |
| Justin_- | I don't like everything in .net but I honestly prefer c# syntax to java, and I prefer the bytecode system | Jun 23 12:13 |
| cubezzz | you can use bytecode without using C# | Jun 23 12:14 |
| cubezzz | make your own bytecode | Jun 23 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Really the bytecode in .net is 32 and 64 bit picky. | Jun 23 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Its not that great. | Jun 23 12:14 |
| Justin_- | right I mean I prefer c# to the java language, and I prefer .net il to java bytecode | Jun 23 12:14 |
| -->scientes (~scientes@unaffiliated/scientes) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 12:14 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: java bytecode is stable. | Jun 23 12:14 |
| cubezzz | Microsoft could use patents to hurt people using free versions of C# | Jun 23 12:14 |
| Justin_- | I don't think there's a stability issue with either | Jun 23 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: same with lua | Jun 23 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: O yes there is. | Jun 23 12:15 |
| MinceR | so, what's the difference between c# syntax and java? :> | Jun 23 12:15 |
| MinceR | a few keywords that differ? | Jun 23 12:15 |
| cubezzz | I'm not a big java fan either, but it's tolerable I guess | Jun 23 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: il allowed address pointers along it to be code it. | Jun 23 12:15 |
| iophk | The apps I've seen in C# have been bloated and unstable. | Jun 23 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: 32 bit and 64 bit | Jun 23 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: arch sentitive. | Jun 23 12:15 |
| Justin_- | cubezzz: afaik that's not true about the c# programming language or il, they're both standardized, explicitly released, and also just a collection of unoriginal ideas | Jun 23 12:15 |
| Justin_- | but yes parts of .net are a problem | Jun 23 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: really MS does not offically release a il to native code complier. | Jun 23 12:17 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: jit sux unless they are small enough to fit in cpu l1 | Jun 23 12:17 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: c# has a lot of extra features | Jun 23 12:17 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: do you know why. | Jun 23 12:17 |
| Justin_- | lambda expressions, object initializations, ref and out keywords, etc | Jun 23 12:17 |
| Justin_- | linq | Jun 23 12:17 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: convert byte code to native code in ram | Jun 23 12:17 |
| cubezzz | Microsoft just wants to take over everything | Jun 23 12:17 |
| Justin_- | cubezzz: I agree | Jun 23 12:18 |
| oiaohm | ends up with blocks of memory that must end up in swap. | Jun 23 12:18 |
| cubezzz | C# is just another example | Jun 23 12:18 |
| MinceR | i thought java had lambda expressions | Jun 23 12:18 |
| Justin_- | but the c# language syntax is a standard, it's not an issue legally | Jun 23 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: swap is your slowest ram anything that results in anything extra ending up there is bad. | Jun 23 12:18 |
| MinceR | i thought linq as a library feature | Jun 23 12:18 |
| MinceR | dunno what the others are | Jun 23 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: there is a issue | Jun 23 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: the .net bytecode in the standard is non functional. | Jun 23 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: does not work in MS .net engines | Jun 23 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: properly. | Jun 23 12:19 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: linq is language level, ref is like void set1(ref int N) { N = 1; } and it modifies a variable of the caller | Jun 23 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: if standard was correct ms patent promise would be valid. | Jun 23 12:19 |
| MinceR | so it's passing by reference | Jun 23 12:19 |
| Justin_- | yep | Jun 23 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: but since MS .net does not match standard patent promise is not worth anything. | Jun 23 12:20 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: as far as I know the il format in the standard is used | Jun 23 12:20 |
| cubezzz | next thing will be microsoft bios... | Jun 23 12:20 |
| Justin_- | if it wasn't, mono wouldn't be able to run .net programs | Jun 23 12:20 |
| cubezzz | i'm sure they're working on it :-/ | Jun 23 12:20 |
| Justin_- | cubezzz: I'm surprised it hasn't been done | Jun 23 12:20 |
| Justin_- | writing a bios isn't that complex | Jun 23 12:21 |
| cubezzz | it's not easy! | Jun 23 12:21 |
| cubezzz | try it sometime | Jun 23 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: in fact no. | Jun 23 12:21 |
| cubezzz | a lot of chips are under NDA | Jun 23 12:21 |
| Justin_- | I played around with the cromwell source a bit | Jun 23 12:21 |
| MinceR | afaik java effectively passes objects by reference | Jun 23 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: mono.net contains many documented hacks where they have had to leave il format standard. | Jun 23 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: so MS.net programs work. | Jun 23 12:22 |
| MinceR | (passes the reference itself by value, which is the same thing) | Jun 23 12:22 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Reshared post from Carsten Knobloch http://ur1.ca/9jzcr | Jun 23 12:22 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ .::. Size~: 132.45 KB | Jun 23 12:22 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: ref and out apply to primitives and references themselves | Jun 23 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: reason why .net programs are not very good in mono.net does trace to some points MS.net leaves standard. | Jun 23 12:23 |
| Justin_- | like int n = 1; set1(ref n); | Jun 23 12:23 |
| Justin_- | or I guess I should say int n = 2; | Jun 23 12:23 |
| MinceR | in java, you could box that int in an Integer and then it's an object | Jun 23 12:23 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: right, there are workarounds | Jun 23 12:23 |
| MinceR | yes, for example, my workaround for c# being an unusable, undocumented patent trap is using java instead :> | Jun 23 12:24 |
| cubezzz | no one advocates APL? :) | Jun 23 12:24 |
| MinceR | not me | Jun 23 12:24 |
| Justin_- | I don't know about it being unstable, I don't know of any case where syntax from a previous version was broken in a future version | Jun 23 12:24 |
| MinceR | i said "unusable", not "unstable" | Jun 23 12:25 |
| Justin_- | oh sorry | Jun 23 12:25 |
| MinceR | though it might as well be that too | Jun 23 12:25 |
| MinceR | (especially when it's layered on top of windows :> ) | Jun 23 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Even between .net versions they are not syntax compadible. | Jun 23 12:25 |
| Justin_- | I find it pretty usable, I could restrict myself to java syntax and write almost identical code in c#, I just like the dozens of extra features in c# | Jun 23 12:25 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Links 23/6/2012: Wine 1.5.7 released, Apple Racism http://ur1.ca/9jzdm #techrights | Jun 23 12:25 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Links 23/6/2012: Wine 1.5.7 released, Apple Racism | Techrights .::. Size~: 118.25 KB | Jun 23 12:25 |
| MinceR | oh, forgot "non-portable" | Jun 23 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: this is known with MS.net yes programs require particular versions of .net to work. | Jun 23 12:25 |
| MinceR | and i absolutely hate Windows.Forms, it was obsolete when they first thought of it | Jun 23 12:26 |
| Justin_- | c# is basically a superset of java, you can choose not to use features you don't like | Jun 23 12:26 |
| cubezzz | MinceR, I can write APL programs for many different platforms | Jun 23 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: .net is not mature yet. | Jun 23 12:26 |
| Justin_- | I agree | Jun 23 12:26 |
| Justin_- | windows forms were crap | Jun 23 12:26 |
| MinceR | they're of course even more obsolete now | Jun 23 12:26 |
| Justin_- | and wpf is amazing but it's definitely patent encumbered | Jun 23 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: there are other languages you can use with java JVM;s | Jun 23 12:26 |
| cubezzz | MinceR, what languages do you use besides java and c? | Jun 23 12:26 |
| cubezzz | just curious | Jun 23 12:27 |
| MinceR | does wpf do widget layouting already or is it still just "let's just throw these widgets on this canvas somewhere randomly"? | Jun 23 12:27 |
| MinceR | cubezzz: c++, python, bash, csh (though i don't like that), tcl (though that i like even less) | Jun 23 12:27 |
| MinceR | awk | Jun 23 12:27 |
| MinceR | perl | Jun 23 12:27 |
| Justin_- | there are a lot of options for layout in wpf, you can choose the layout engine you want or plug in your own | Jun 23 12:27 |
| MinceR | (thankfully) very rarely php | Jun 23 12:27 |
| Justin_- | wpf works a lot like html and css, it's based on a markup system called xaml, based on xml | Jun 23 12:27 |
| MinceR | Justin_-: i mean, can you arrange your widgets in stacked HBoxes/VBoxes and have WPF automatically set their size and position properly? | Jun 23 12:28 |
| cubezzz | APL is interesting though | Jun 23 12:28 |
| MinceR | oh, so it's an HTML GUI toolkit? | Jun 23 12:28 |
| cubezzz | I know I'm like the only one here that uses it | Jun 23 12:28 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: yes, there are built-in features for that and you can also implement it yourself if you want more control | Jun 23 12:28 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: it's similar yes | Jun 23 12:28 |
| MinceR | i don't feel much enthusiasm for that idea | Jun 23 12:28 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: have you worked with qt | Jun 23 12:28 |
| MinceR | if i was building webapps, that would be different, of course... | Jun 23 12:29 |
| Justin_- | well no it's not based on html and css, which are a disgusting mess | Jun 23 12:29 |
| Justin_- | in my opinion | Jun 23 12:29 |
| Justin_- | but the concept is similar in some ways | Jun 23 12:29 |
| MinceR | html and css seem fine for webapp development | Jun 23 12:29 |
| cubezzz | kind of hard to avoid html | Jun 23 12:29 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: you mind then understand why with a qt background I don't see wpf as fun. | Jun 23 12:29 |
| MinceR | not so much for plain hypertext | Jun 23 12:29 |
| Justin_- | you write a document in xml, define objects, and provide code-behind as properties within those objects, then the code is executed on .net | Jun 23 12:30 |
| cubezzz | anyone use motif? :) | Jun 23 12:30 |
| MinceR | i actually do use some a bit of motif at work | Jun 23 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: have you or have not used qt | Jun 23 12:30 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: a little bit | Jun 23 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: I love qt for the fact its write once use many. | Jun 23 12:30 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: have you use qml script in qt | Jun 23 12:30 |
| Justin_- | no | Jun 23 12:30 |
| cubezzz | oiaohm, you writing KDE programs? | Jun 23 12:31 |
| oiaohm | cubezzz: no mine just depend on qt | Jun 23 12:31 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qml is a mix of layout and javascript | Jun 23 12:32 |
| Justin_- | oh | Jun 23 12:32 |
| Justin_- | most gui toolkits developed in the last 10 years are like this | Jun 23 12:32 |
| Justin_- | mvc, model view controller | Jun 23 12:32 |
| Justin_- | with the gui laid out independently of code | Jun 23 12:32 |
| oiaohm | qml is a different beast. | Jun 23 12:33 |
| Justin_- | and in a format that allows gui elements to be organized in different ways depending on the display or other factors | Jun 23 12:33 |
| oiaohm | Where you can write the complete program in it. | Jun 23 12:33 |
| Justin_- | oh | Jun 23 12:33 |
| oiaohm | Or you can use it to dymamically change the interface on the fly. | Jun 23 12:33 |
| oiaohm | Yes you write interface animations in qml with qt | Jun 23 12:33 |
| Justin_- | are there animation features or do you have to write code to do an animation? | Jun 23 12:34 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: animation features are provided | Jun 23 12:34 |
| Justin_- | like wpf has vectors and timelines, someone who can't program can make a gui with animations | Jun 23 12:34 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: and you can join them up how ever you like. | Jun 23 12:34 |
| Justin_- | similar to flash | Jun 23 12:34 |
| Justin_- | nice | Jun 23 12:34 |
| oiaohm | You can do insane things in the javascript like reorder the complete interface on the fly. | Jun 23 12:35 |
| MinceR | not the best pitches i've ever seen... "someone who can't program can make a gui", "similar to flash" ;) | Jun 23 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Like have button float around screen changing order. | Jun 23 12:36 |
| Justin_- | I mean vectors and timelines are basically flash features | Jun 23 12:36 |
| cubezzz | flash seems like a control mechanism on the user | Jun 23 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: note I said dyanmic. | Jun 23 12:36 |
| MinceR | i don't think flash invented vector graphics :> | Jun 23 12:36 |
| Justin_- | you define a vector, move ahead in time, redefine it, and then the engine morphs the vector from the first version to the second | Jun 23 12:36 |
| oiaohm | vectors and times lines are a static constracts. | Jun 23 12:36 |
| Justin_- | no I agree it didn't | Jun 23 12:36 |
| Justin_- | but wpf is very flash-esque in terms of its vector and animation support | Jun 23 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Very limititing. | Jun 23 12:37 |
| oiaohm | qt I can go 3d if I wish. | Jun 23 12:37 |
| cubezzz | ugh, that's another microsoft technology isn't it? | Jun 23 12:37 |
| cubezzz | wpf | Jun 23 12:37 |
| oiaohm | Like drawing windows straight on opengl textures. | Jun 23 12:37 |
| Justin_- | I don't see any obvious room for improvement in wpf's vector implementation, it seems like intelligent people sat down and carefully thought about how it should look | Jun 23 12:37 |
| cubezzz | you will be absorbed :) | Jun 23 12:37 |
| Justin_- | and about non-programmers designing guis, personally I think that separation is a good thing | Jun 23 12:38 |
| MinceR | wpf, more like wtf | Jun 23 12:38 |
| MinceR | :> | Jun 23 12:38 |
| Justin_- | I mean the gui elements should be programmatically accessible, just not programmatically based | Jun 23 12:38 |
| cubezzz | I'll design my own gui's thanks | Jun 23 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qml idea is simple. | Jun 23 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Non-programmers can go simple. | Jun 23 12:38 |
| Justin_- | nice, do it | Jun 23 12:38 |
| MinceR | i prefer guis designed by programmers | Jun 23 12:38 |
| MinceR | they tend to be functional :> | Jun 23 12:39 |
| oiaohm | But with a little programming skill gui coders can do a lot. | Jun 23 12:39 |
| oiaohm | yet qml can be indepentant to the back end coders. | Jun 23 12:39 |
| cubezzz | I like VM/SP's ideas too | Jun 23 12:39 |
| cubezzz | all textual | Jun 23 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Basically qt split the graphical coders from the back end coders. | Jun 23 12:39 |
| Justin_- | you can do var C = new Canvas() { Width = 800, Height = 600 }; var B = new Button() { Left = 100 , Top = 50 , Text = "hi" , OnClick = () => { MessageBox("hi") } }; C.Children.Add(B); etc | Jun 23 12:39 |
| Justin_- | if you want to party like it's 1995 | Jun 23 12:40 |
| oiaohm | How would you connect an animanate to the button. | Jun 23 12:40 |
| Justin_- | I'm not sure how to build a timeline with code, I've never done it | Jun 23 12:40 |
| cubezzz | Justin_-, seems all you know is microsoft stuff | Jun 23 12:40 |
| cubezzz | you're stuck in there | Jun 23 12:40 |
| Justin_- | I used linux for years and years, I'm very comfortable with posix and the linux kernel | Jun 23 12:41 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qt.nokia.com/qtquick/ | Jun 23 12:41 |
| Justin_- | I never got into linux gui development though | Jun 23 12:41 |
| cubezzz | Justin_-, so which distros did you use? | Jun 23 12:41 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML | Jun 23 12:41 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: QML - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 51.42 KB | Jun 23 12:41 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qt is not for Linux | Jun 23 12:42 |
| Justin_- | I started with slackware and then switched to fedora, I used suse and ubuntu a bit but it was mainly fedora | Jun 23 12:42 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: it for every platform. | Jun 23 12:42 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Yes I can export my qt program stragiht to android or os x | Jun 23 12:42 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: I know, qt is great | Jun 23 12:42 |
| Justin_- | it's well designed, modern | Jun 23 12:42 |
| Justin_- | object based | Jun 23 12:42 |
| Justin_- | every gui element is an extensible object | Jun 23 12:42 |
| Justin_- | and yep it's pretty multi platform | Jun 23 12:43 |
| Justin_- | I haven't used it much and I don't know that much about it but I'm not criticizing it in any way | Jun 23 12:43 |
| MinceR | GTK+ is also great | Jun 23 12:43 |
| cubezzz | you can't use that stuff on z/OS | Jun 23 12:43 |
| cubezzz | just sayin' | Jun 23 12:43 |
| MinceR | can't you run GNU/Linux on z/OS? | Jun 23 12:44 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] It's radiohead time. House of cards. One of the best songs ever. | Jun 23 12:44 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: really look at the wiki qml for quick done up animation in qt | Jun 23 12:44 |
| cubezzz | z/OS is the OS though | Jun 23 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: wpf just make life way to hard to make something nice. | Jun 23 12:44 |
| cubezzz | you can run Linux on IBM mainframes of course yes | Jun 23 12:44 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: I believe you, I wasn't saying wpf is superior to everything else, I just said I think it's great too, and that I think html and css are garbage | Jun 23 12:44 |
| cubezzz | what's wrong with html? | Jun 23 12:45 |
| cubezzz | we don't want microsoft stuff | Jun 23 12:45 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: gtk + vala is also very nice | Jun 23 12:45 |
| cubezzz | doesn't anyone get that by now? :) | Jun 23 12:45 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: yes vala nicely objected foced. gtk in C its painful. | Jun 23 12:45 |
| Justin_- | personally I don't like style syntax, I don't like the basic concepts of css rendering like there's a lot of awkward and ambiguity, a lot of things are missing and pieced together from draft standards | Jun 23 12:46 |
| cubezzz | I don't use css myself | Jun 23 12:46 |
| cubezzz | might have used it once | Jun 23 12:46 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: I agree, I've looked at gtk in C and it seemed kind of silly, same with cocoa in objective C | Jun 23 12:47 |
| Justin_- | they're all fine though I wasn't really advocating anything, I don't use wpf | Jun 23 12:47 |
| MinceR | i thought css had a pretty clean syntax | Jun 23 12:47 |
| Justin_- | I do use c# but it's just a preference, java is fine, other languages are fine if you don't mind certain issues | Jun 23 12:48 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: personally I think style="x:y" is kludgy | Jun 23 12:48 |
| Justin_- | it's not part of the primary markup | Jun 23 12:48 |
| Justin_- | it's like sending messages to another module | Jun 23 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: http://qt.nokia.com/qtquick/ look at the bottom one here. Open up photoshop draw up interface and use qml to turn it into a real working interface. | Jun 23 12:48 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Qt Quick - including QML, Qt Creator and the Qt Quick UI runtime .::. Size~: 17.2 KB | Jun 23 12:48 |
| Justin_- | in another format | Jun 23 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: I just find wpf design and ideas limiting. | Jun 23 12:49 |
| Justin_- | as if you'd say stylecode="this.x=100; for (int whatever; .. " | Jun 23 12:49 |
| MinceR | Justin_-: write it in the CSS file, then :) | Jun 23 12:49 |
| Justin_- | it's still the same, binary blob esque | Jun 23 12:49 |
| oiaohm | CSS has its place for sharing common formating in style. | Jun 23 12:49 |
| MinceR | i don't see what's binary about plain text | Jun 23 12:49 |
| Justin_- | text blob | Jun 23 12:50 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: what would you change about wpf? | Jun 23 12:50 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: after using qml basically all of it. | Jun 23 12:51 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: its idea is just wrong. | Jun 23 12:51 |
| Justin_- | wrong in what way? | Jun 23 12:51 |
| Justin_- | I mean seriously enlighten me, I don't think wpf is the ultimate gui system | Jun 23 12:52 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qml I have the freedom to do the interface any way I choose. | Jun 23 12:52 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: and I do mean any way I choose. | Jun 23 12:52 |
| Justin_- | what do you mean by that? | Jun 23 12:52 |
| <--oddpuck has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) | Jun 23 12:53 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Just look at the bottom video on http://qt.nokia.com/qtquick/ doing photoshop to interface. | Jun 23 12:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Qt Quick - including QML, Qt Creator and the Qt Quick UI runtime .::. Size~: 17.2 KB | Jun 23 12:53 |
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| oiaohm | Justin_-: then remember I can do 3d interface effect changes if I wish. | Jun 23 12:53 |
| Justin_- | ok | Jun 23 12:53 |
| Justin_- | the bottom video, I only see a main video at the top | Jun 23 12:54 |
| oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py_eUAQS1UY This is 3d world mucking around from 2008 its a lot better today. | Jun 23 12:55 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Wolfenstein Qt. Qt widgets in a 3D environment - YouTube .::. Size~: 122.02 KB | Jun 23 12:55 |
| Justin_- | that's neat, qt looks great | Jun 23 12:56 |
| Justin_- | wpf has 3d features too | Jun 23 12:56 |
| oiaohm | www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BRJ1qJkjZM | Jun 23 12:56 |
| Justin_- | you can do the same thing, place gui elements in 3d | Jun 23 12:56 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: notice the point of the code controling the char being edited while the program is running. | Jun 23 12:57 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: you can do that with qt interfaces. | Jun 23 12:57 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: wpf is far more static in design. | Jun 23 12:58 |
| Justin_- | you mean in the first or second video? | Jun 23 12:58 |
| ---roy is now known as schestowitz | Jun 23 12:58 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: in the first video. | Jun 23 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: how the person edits the speed the wolfenstein char moves. | Jun 23 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: then remember you can do the same thing to qml scripting. | Jun 23 12:59 |
| Justin_- | let me watch the rest of it | Jun 23 13:00 |
| Justin_- | with sound muted | Jun 23 13:00 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: the sound is coming from the video playing in the app. | Jun 23 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: that was not added music. | Jun 23 13:01 |
| Justin_- | halfway through | Jun 23 13:02 |
| Justin_- | it just seems to be a bunch of web browser controls and some basic gui widgets with 3d properties | Jun 23 13:02 |
| Justin_- | I mean it's neat but wpf does have the same capabilities | Jun 23 13:03 |
| Justin_- | I think javascript probably does at this point too, with webgl | Jun 23 13:03 |
| oiaohm | To change scripting of the interface on fly. | Jun 23 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Even the layout | Jun 23 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Without having to rebuild program. | Jun 23 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Yes the fun of qt for development stage. | Jun 23 13:04 |
| Justin_- | that's not a big deal | Jun 23 13:04 |
| oiaohm | I like that. | Jun 23 13:05 |
| Justin_- | I do too | Jun 23 13:05 |
| Justin_- | qt is definitely a well designed, modern platform | Jun 23 13:05 |
| oiaohm | qml can also be used to check inputs. | Jun 23 13:05 |
| oiaohm | In case of deeper coding errors. | Jun 23 13:05 |
| oiaohm | Yes it useful having this means to push a patch in at the interface level. | Jun 23 13:06 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Note the change on fly stuff was 2008. what qt today can do is a lot more than the first video showed. | Jun 23 13:10 |
| Justin_- | I believe you | Jun 23 13:11 |
| <--oiaohm has quit (Quit: by all) | Jun 23 13:25 | |
| cubezzz | I should have said z/VM not z/OS] | Jun 23 13:33 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @rysiek @jacobwb let me help you with that ;) http://ur1.ca/9ib7j /cc @lnxwalt140 | Jun 23 13:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting text/plain; charset=utf-8 type | Jun 23 13:49 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Reshared post from Mike Searle http://ur1.ca/9jzoz | Jun 23 13:54 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Droid For Sale Times have gotten tight for all of us. For… .::. Size~: 164.92 KB | Jun 23 13:54 |
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| cubezzz | schestowitz, did you know Multics got open sourced? | Jun 23 14:01 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Should I ever have a cat, I will call it Johnny Bravo. Because. | Jun 23 14:04 | |
| schestowitz | yeah | Jun 23 14:09 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: in a few days I'll need to get your logs of this channel... via web... cause BT is having a problem with their exchange.. I keep on an unreliable connection | Jun 23 14:10 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, oh ok | Jun 23 14:10 |
| cubezzz | it's still at the same URL | Jun 23 14:10 |
| schestowitz | Over the weekend or next weekend I'll upload and publish tons of my code | Jun 23 14:11 |
| schestowitz | 1.5 years worth.. tens of thousands of lines | Jun 23 14:11 |
| schestowitz | so been mostly busy with that, tidying it all up | Jun 23 14:11 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] While trying to blog more on !copyright to stave off !C11, took a wee break for a bit of personal philosophy http://www.ur1.ca/9jzr4 #more | Jun 23 14:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: What’s Wrong with ’5 Simple Rules For Happiness’ ? « Laurel L. Russwurm .::. Size~: 80.09 KB | Jun 23 14:14 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] RT @ryanweal wearing my accounts receivable hat. Please pay up folks! If you have an invoice from me, that is. I also accept free money. | Jun 23 14:15 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] .@F_Leist "Governance by Shitstorm"? Great name. I'm stealing it from you. :) Also, any English link? | Jun 23 14:24 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path - http://bit.ly/MFMQ2R also why #apple is the new #evil (v @laurenweinstein) | Jun 23 14:27 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 67.7 KB | Jun 23 14:27 |
| <--Justin_- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | Jun 23 14:30 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @glynmoody Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path - http://bit.ly/MFMQ2R also why #apple is the new #evil (v @ ... | Jun 23 14:30 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 67.63 KB | Jun 23 14:30 |
| cubezzz | I can fix most of my computers | Jun 23 14:31 |
| cubezzz | this is an old Dell I'm on | Jun 23 14:31 |
| cubezzz | GX110 | Jun 23 14:31 |
| schestowitz | the code is coming along well now.. | Jun 23 14:37 |
| schestowitz | It's something I only started doing about 15-20 hours (of work) ago. | Jun 23 14:37 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, what are you working on? | Jun 23 14:37 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/2nd-federal-lawsuit-filed-in-Indy-officer-s-crash-3657735.php | Jun 23 14:39 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: 2nd federal lawsuit filed in Indy officer's crash - SFGate .::. Size~: 81.07 KB | Jun 23 14:39 |
| DaemonFC | It'll disappear | Jun 23 14:40 |
| DaemonFC | the state will make it all go away | Jun 23 14:40 |
| DaemonFC | they'll put the cop on 30 days suspension with pay and that will be the end of it | Jun 23 14:40 |
| DaemonFC | that's how they always handle irresponsible police conduct | Jun 23 14:40 |
| schestowitz | I am well aware of the limitations and problems incurred by the distance and I intend to consider moving to the organiser in 2013. Recently, due to my relationship, I have had less time than before to spend thinking about research while not coding. But this changes now that I work on a project I am *very* passionate about and can make rapid progress on. | Jun 23 14:41 |
| schestowitz | Yesterday I found out about another startup forming to deal with car navigation-related Android apps. It seems to be a hot topic and the potential seems very real, not just from a research point of view but also from a commercial point of view (which the funder, ERC, has interest in). | Jun 23 14:42 |
| DaemonFC | does it have Microsoft's "Avoid poor people" technology? | Jun 23 14:43 |
| cubezzz | nice little othello program :) | Jun 23 14:44 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.jerrydoyle.com/fcc-crack-down-on-tv-and-radio | Jun 23 14:47 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: JD Vegas Cam: FCC Crack Down on TV and Radio - The Jerry Doyle Show .::. Size~: 27.77 KB | Jun 23 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | Independence Day! WOOHOO!!!! | Jun 23 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | where we celebrate our $15 trillion of foreign debt | Jun 23 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | the 2-3 nations that could destroy the US dollar if they really wanted to | Jun 23 14:48 |
| cubezzz | ah Kwin4 is connect 4, not othello | Jun 23 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | with Chinese-made fireworks that will kill and maim at least a few people and burn some houses down | Jun 23 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | and then assuming you actually got the day off (lucky!), back to work the next day | Jun 23 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | Indiana is getting ready to open that coal gas plant | Jun 23 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | we're apparently going to build a pipeline all the way to Mississippi and send all the liquid CO2 from the coal gasification process down there | Jun 23 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | where they will inject it into depleted oil wells to recover the last little bits of oil | Jun 23 14:51 |
| DaemonFC | and this counts as a clean energy carbon sequestration project | Jun 23 14:51 |
| DaemonFC | then they send out the gas as a synthetic natural gas and tell Indiana customers who are being billed more for it that, over the next 30 years they'll save money because the company had to guarantee those prices for that long | Jun 23 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | that's kind of nifty isn't it? | Jun 23 14:55 |
| DaemonFC | store billions and billions of tons of CO2 underground and hope it never escapes | Jun 23 14:55 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] The Sparks - Hospitality on parade. Pure. Genius. | Jun 23 15:04 | |
| <--iophk (~foobar@unaffiliated/iophk) has left #techrights ("Konversation terminated!") | Jun 23 15:04 | |
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| DaemonFC | hmmm, the "Constitution Party" has ballot access in Indiana now | Jun 23 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | that might drain some voted from the Republicans | Jun 23 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | *votes | Jun 23 15:31 |
| MinceR | hmm... Constitution drain. | Jun 23 15:33 |
| formic_ | Cactus | Jun 23 15:35 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Viva Espana! :-) | Jun 23 15:39 | |
| MinceR | formic_: btw the "relative installs windows on your computer" thing is already solved by setting the boot drive order to HDD first and locking the BIOS down with a password :> | Jun 23 15:41 |
| formic_ | Until the bios battery is removed | Jun 23 15:41 |
| cubezzz | just secure the computer room | Jun 23 15:42 |
| formic_ | I'll be able to buy my parents an ubuntu uefi secured box and that's the only OS she can run | Jun 23 15:43 |
| MinceR | until she clears the setup password and turns off restricted boot | Jun 23 15:44 |
| cubezzz | this reminds me of the time computers had locks on them | Jun 23 15:44 |
| formic_ | So why is Microsoft such a big deal | Jun 23 15:45 |
| cubezzz | you could lock out the keyboard | Jun 23 15:45 |
| MinceR | it has been explained before | Jun 23 15:45 |
| formic_ | Users gotta go into the bios anyway to set the boot order | Jun 23 15:45 |
| MinceR | disabling restricted boot on machines where it's possible is no easier than setting the boot order | Jun 23 15:45 |
| formic_ | Oh no, one more switch to flip | Jun 23 15:45 |
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| sebsebseb | hi | Jun 23 15:46 |
| MinceR | hay | Jun 23 15:46 |
| cubezzz | hello | Jun 23 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Your Constitution is low. | Jun 23 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | Would you like to roll again? | Jun 23 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 15:47 |
| MinceR | i prefer Point Buy :) | Jun 23 15:47 |
| MinceR | or just all 18s before modifiers :> | Jun 23 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | "The party supports the repeal of the Sixteenth Amendment, which allows Congress to tax income" | Jun 23 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | gee what a coincidence | Jun 23 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | so do I | Jun 23 15:48 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] When I feel down, I put on Mad Dancing Matt and I feel better. Where the Hell is Matt? 2012 - this guy has so much po... http://b1t.it/bFaT | Jun 23 15:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - When I feel down, I put on Mad Dancing Matt and I feel… .::. Size~: 144.65 KB | Jun 23 15:49 |
| MinceR | do you wish to abolish the state or to fund it in a different way? | Jun 23 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Their presidential ticket gets about 200,000 votes | Jun 23 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | that's less than the United States Socialist Party | Jun 23 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | but the Libertarian Party typically gets between 500,000 and 800,000 | Jun 23 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Extreme downsizing | Jun 23 15:50 |
| formic_ | Income tax needs to be abolishing | Jun 23 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 15:50 |
| formic_ | Abolished | Jun 23 15:50 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[mrdenticator/@mrdenticator] Yesterday top #statustician is schestowitz from identi.ca with 83 dents! | Jun 23 15:50 | |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: we can start with all the federal departments that don't do what they say they do | Jun 23 15:50 |
| formic_ | Too many dumb people hold government jobs | Jun 23 15:50 |
| MinceR | so how would you fund the remaining parts? | Jun 23 15:51 |
| formic_ | You cut waste | Jun 23 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: tariffs, excise tax | Jun 23 15:51 |
| MinceR | why is that better than also having income tax? | Jun 23 15:51 |
| formic_ | You take everyone on welfare and draft them into the army and go to Iran | Jun 23 15:52 |
| MinceR | lol | Jun 23 15:52 |
| formic_ | Instant win | Jun 23 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | formic_: Nah, we do that with all the violent felons first | Jun 23 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | we just drop them off in Iran | Jun 23 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | give them some weapons | Jun 23 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | let things sort themselves out | Jun 23 15:53 |
| MinceR | what if they join the iranians? :> | Jun 23 15:53 |
| formic_ | You will either outnumber the Iranian army and win, or they all get killed and the economy recovers | Jun 23 15:53 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Is modern technology creating a culture of distraction? http://goo.gl/Mp1k6 | Jun 23 15:54 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Is modern technology creating a culture of distraction? — Tech News and Analysis .::. Size~: 81.52 KB | Jun 23 15:54 |
| formic_ | Win/win | Jun 23 15:54 |
| MinceR | so what if they join the enemy? | Jun 23 15:54 |
| <--schestowitz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Jun 23 15:54 | |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Under my government, we will withdraw from the WTO, NAFTA, CAFTA, and a lot of other treaties | Jun 23 15:54 |
| formic_ | If they are on welfare they will integrate well | Jun 23 15:55 |
| formic_ | That's win3: forced emigration | Jun 23 15:55 |
| formic_ | Economy recovers | Jun 23 15:55 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] Not impressed? | Jun 23 15:55 | |
| formic_ | USA is just gonna nuke them anyway | Jun 23 15:56 |
| MinceR | :) | Jun 23 15:57 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] ♺ @sandersch: @thistleweb no, I don't think so.......wait what?....................free kick..........what was my point again?.............. | Jun 23 15:57 | |
| DaemonFC | we could level them without using nukes and without sending one soldier into harms way | Jun 23 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | Iran's military is not so great | Jun 23 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | in case you didn't notice, their navy consists of some speedboats | Jun 23 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | their army has things like old Soviet tanks | Jun 23 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | I think the best stuff their air force has are the fighter jets that they seized from Iraq when Iraq's pilots tried to flee to Iran during the 1991 Gulf War | Jun 23 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of them are....*giggles*, French | Jun 23 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | I say we do the Clinton Strategy | Jun 23 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | lob some cruise missiles at them and call it a day | Jun 23 16:02 |
| MinceR | use some Tom Cruise missiles | Jun 23 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J9KRZ0PnAs | Jun 23 16:04 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Tom Cruise Crazy - YouTube .::. Size~: 162.9 KB | Jun 23 16:04 |
| MinceR | yup | Jun 23 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: just jump up and down on a couch and proclaim your love of Xenu | Jun 23 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | it's therapeutic! | Jun 23 16:08 |
| MinceR | he hates Xenu | Jun 23 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | I know :) | Jun 23 16:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] !football fans who listen to podcasts could do a lot worse than #FootballWeekly http://goo.gl/xO97 & #TheFootballRamble http://goo.gl/qTwQS | Jun 23 16:15 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Guardian Football Weekly podcast | Football | The Guardian .::. Size~: 89.78 KB | Jun 23 16:15 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Football Ramble show, blog and videos | The most entertaining voice in football | Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, MLS and more .::. Size~: 28.83 KB | Jun 23 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | damned low flow toilets | Jun 23 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | damn them to hell | Jun 23 16:16 |
| *DaemonFC campaigns for the senate on the platform of bringing back 3 GPF toilets | Jun 23 16:17 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[faither/@faither] Terrorists get tortured and exe-/prosecuted. "Terrorist-states" get bombed. What about the America? The confirmed cyber-terrorist-states. | Jun 23 16:17 | |
| MinceR | couldn't people just learn how to stop the flushing process? | Jun 23 16:17 |
| MinceR | it's easy with many toilets | Jun 23 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: How does it save water if you have to flush them 10 times? | Jun 23 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | everyone in this building, myself included, has to fight with the toilet to get it to flush | Jun 23 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | they clog about 5 times as often as the old toilets | Jun 23 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | so every day you hear noises in the pipes and you know it's someone fighting their toilet | Jun 23 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_flush_toilet | Jun 23 16:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Low flush toilet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.77 KB | Jun 23 16:24 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Mal schauen ob Bulb Fiction irgendwo in München läuft. BULB FICTION - Trailer Heatball | ab 16.9.2011 im Kino http:... http://b1t.it/bFa4 | Jun 23 16:24 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Mal schauen ob Bulb Fiction irgendwo in München läuft. .::. Size~: 142.92 KB | Jun 23 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: These damned things | Jun 23 16:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/94859619 | Jun 23 16:34 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @faither's status on Saturday, 23-Jun-12 20:16:02 UTC - Identi.ca: Terrorists get tortured and exe-/prosecuted. "Terrorist-states" get bombed. What about the America? The confirmed cyber-terrorist-states. | Jun 23 16:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Villariba liegt in Frankreich. Villabajo ist schon fertig mit Putzen, wie mir scheint. | Jun 23 16:34 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] RT @glynmoody Megaupload Founder Kim Dotcom Returns to Twitter, Promotes ‘Megabox’ - http://on.mash.to/LpGxVf seems to be more confident ... | Jun 23 16:35 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] Okay, So the plan is to stop using the http://ur1.ca/56etj #XMPP account because too unreliable. Now using http://ur1.ca/9izcu | Jun 23 16:37 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jabber.org .::. Size~: 23.52 KB | Jun 23 16:37 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: comm.unicate.me - ...a free Jabber Instant Messaging provider... | - 12345comm.unicate.me .::. Size~: 19.09 KB | Jun 23 16:37 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Dear +Google+ - why is it "Mute post" on the web but "Ignore post" on the mobile client? Oh, and when you're at it - ... http://b1t.it/bFbj | Jun 23 16:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Dear +Google+ - why is it "Mute post" on the web but… .::. Size~: 142.96 KB | Jun 23 16:49 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Cirvins on Monday with Thistleweb and one of the Mageia founders, who works on Pulseaudio upsteram as well it seems, and maybe soneone else on there to I don't know | Jun 23 16:51 |
| sebsebseb | and yep me on it | Jun 23 16:52 |
| <--schestowitz has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Jun 23 16:52 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] 10" #Android 4.0 Tablet Under 100 Pounds on Sale in UK http://goo.gl/gB2gf #hardware #tablets | Jun 23 16:57 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Article: 10 Android 4 ... .::. Size~: 111.84 KB | Jun 23 16:57 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Olé Olé Olé Olé Olé? | Jun 23 16:59 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] #LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) HOWTO: Installing MySQL and Apache with PHP support on Linux http://goo.gl/8f0n #tips #gnulinux | Jun 23 17:07 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) HOWTO: Installing MySQL and Apache with PHP support on Linux .::. Size~: 34.41 KB | Jun 23 17:07 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Portable #Python http://goo.gl/ET4K #floss #programming | Jun 23 17:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Portable Python .::. Size~: 9.67 KB | Jun 23 17:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Intel Releases Ivy Bridge Programming Docs Under CC License - Slashdot http://goo.gl/MCKYn #hardware | Jun 23 17:12 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Intel Releases Ivy Bridge Programming Docs Under CC License - Slashdot .::. Size~: 138.89 KB | Jun 23 17:12 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Police may have to destroy photos of innocent people after court ruling - http://bit.ly/MNf1yF bravo (v @zeitgeistlondon @julianhuppert) #uk | Jun 23 17:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Police may have to destroy photos of innocent people after court ruling | UK news | The Guardian .::. Size~: 107.67 KB | Jun 23 17:17 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[sebsebseb/@sebsebseb] !tzag Good Evening !Identiverse :). | Jun 23 17:19 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] [Phoronix] #NVIDIA Loses Huge GPU Order Due To #Linux Blob http://goo.gl/k4PFO a f* you to nvidia that really hurts their pockets! GOOD! | Jun 23 17:29 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: [Phoronix] NVIDIA Loses Huge GPU Order Due To Linux Blob .::. Size~: 19.05 KB | Jun 23 17:29 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] @sebsebseb excellent | Jun 23 17:40 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @NeelieKroesEU: Happy 100th birthday #AlanTuring. #ICT wouldn't be the same without you. http://p.ost.im/p/ecCQKV | Jun 23 17:44 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @NeelieKroesEU: "We can only see a short distance ahead, but we can see plenty there that needs to be do http://p.ost.im/p/ecwAT5 | Jun 23 17:44 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @NeelieKroesEU: MT @ECspokesRyan site worth sharing: "This Is What a Scientist Looks Like" http://t.co/5 http://p.ost.im/p/ecW5Pd | Jun 23 17:44 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @OpenAIRE_eu: @NeelieKroesEU on Royal Society's report, Open Science, Open Access, linking publications http://p.ost.im/p/ec7TpE | Jun 23 17:44 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] #Vatican Gets Fox Opus Dei Media Adviser http://goo.gl/ir9y9 vatican and fox? a marriage made in hell i guess! | Jun 23 17:44 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] #Wikipedia As a "War Zone," Rather Than a Collaboration http://goo.gl/Flqel | Jun 23 17:45 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Wikipedia As a "War Zone," Rather Than a Collaboration - Slashdot .::. Size~: 91.34 KB | Jun 23 17:45 |
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| schestowitz | I'm finishing some research ATM. I have been writing a report and also documenting all the code, data, etc., making it readily available and easy to use by anyone who may wish to continue the work. While some of the research shows the inability of particular method to beat state-of-the-art off-the-shelf products, one might wish to have another stab at it. If every path was successful, it would not be research. :-) | Jun 23 17:52 |
| schestowitz | https://identi.ca/notice/94790722 | Jun 23 17:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @Bijan (bijan)'s status on Thursday, 21-Jun-12 09:09:30 UTC - Identi.ca: it's simple caused by lack of user experience/knowledge i guess ;) | Jun 23 17:53 |
| schestowitz | https://identi.ca/notice/94827168 | Jun 23 17:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @Bijan (bijan)'s status on Friday, 22-Jun-12 13:36:19 UTC - Identi.ca: i think on Desktop market, Linux (still) has no power to stand against the decision made by rich companies and their allies. | Jun 23 17:53 |
| schestowitz | https://identi.ca/notice/94837177 | Jun 23 17:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @satipera (satipera)'s status on Friday, 22-Jun-12 20:59:11 UTC - Identi.ca: @Schestowitz We need to be afraid of the people with their foot on our necks. They do not live abroad they live very close to us. | Jun 23 17:53 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Oldie but goldie! Markorepairs and his VHS collection! My VCR collection VHS recorder :-) http://ur1.ca/9k0ii | Jun 23 17:59 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: My VCR collection VHS recorder - YouTube .::. Size~: 144.92 KB | Jun 23 17:59 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] I love my life! | Jun 23 18:02 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Still, spending $500,000 to figure out why apes throw shit is a little much | Jun 23 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | don't you think? | Jun 23 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | with this government money that goes to quacks, kooks, and highly questionable and outright pseudoscientific and/or trivial research, we could be doing something useful | Jun 23 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | I'll grant you that $500,000 to find out why apes throw shit is still a better use for the money than the military....but..... | Jun 23 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | we're not unlocking the secrets of the universe here | Jun 23 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | Why DO apes throw shit? | Jun 23 18:09 |
| DaemonFC | we simply must know! | Jun 23 18:09 |
| DaemonFC | get China on the phone, tell 'em we need another million dollars! | Jun 23 18:09 |
| DaemonFC | that ended up in Senator Coburn's federal waste book for FY 2012 | Jun 23 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | along with another $8 million for the Bridge to Nowhere in Alaska | Jun 23 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | and $765,000 to open up an IHOP franchise in DC | Jun 23 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | along with $17 million in borrowed Chinese money, going back to China as "foreign aid" | Jun 23 18:11 |
| DaemonFC | and the feds gave energy efficiency tax credits for home owners to people who don't own homes | Jun 23 18:11 |
| DaemonFC | including some people who are under 18 | Jun 23 18:12 |
| DaemonFC | and they spent federal money to open up a drug themed pizza restaurant and a couple hundred thousand dollars to a "video game museum" | Jun 23 18:12 |
| DaemonFC | it's always an interesting read to see what outright waste is going on in the federal government | Jun 23 18:13 |
| DaemonFC | they take half your fucking paycheck and use it to figure out why apes throw shit | Jun 23 18:13 |
| DaemonFC | we should be throwing ape shit at these fucks in Washington | Jun 23 18:13 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[wildcard/@wildcard] RT @glynmoody Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path - http://bit.ly/MFMQ2R also why #apple is the new #evil (v @ ... | Jun 23 18:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 67.63 KB | Jun 23 18:14 |
| DaemonFC | here we are talking about how Social Security and Medicare, and Food Stamps and NASA and all these other important programs are on the rocks, and the feds send hundreds of millions of dollars off on political pet projects that don't do society any good | Jun 23 18:15 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: You always hear about how the government has to fund research because companies wouldn't bother | Jun 23 18:16 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I can kind of see why no company would spend $500,000 researching apes throwing shit | Jun 23 18:16 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Saturday Night Fever. Lots of pics to post. Soon. | Jun 23 18:17 | |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1736626 ""joke come out! you're surrounded!" | Jun 23 18:18 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared:  How girls take pictures. #funny #pic #TGIF | Jun 23 18:18 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 23 18:18 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yeah | Jun 23 18:19 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #ACTA: „Governance by Shitstorm“ - http://bit.ly/PRgB34 wow: what a shoddy piece of #FUD from #FAZ; good debunking from @netzpolitik | Jun 23 18:19 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Next stop Dallas. | Jun 23 18:19 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: ACTA: „Governance by Shitstorm“. › netzpolitik.org .::. Size~: 43 KB | Jun 23 18:19 |
| schestowitz | it's more complicated than that | Jun 23 18:19 |
| schestowitz | the way universities are funded | Jun 23 18:19 |
| schestowitz | tuition and all, plus some grants for people's status in there | Jun 23 18:19 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: chimps fling faeces, but do academics get grant to learn it? | Jun 23 18:20 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1737007 | Jun 23 18:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: New KDE Copy Dialog: First Preview http://en.munknex.net/2012/06/new-kde-copy-dialog-first-preview.html #kde #gnu #linux | Jun 23 18:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Cyril Oblikov: New KDE Copy Dialog: First Preview .::. Size~: 69.46 KB | Jun 23 18:20 |
| schestowitz | "The art of copying files" | Jun 23 18:20 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1737152 | Jun 23 18:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared:  | Jun 23 18:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Missing content type. Ignoring. | Jun 23 18:20 |
| schestowitz | "Good quote. This is something I intend to take quite literally. Check out my blog https://wfatp.wordpress.com/" | Jun 23 18:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Page not found « Walker For All That's Positive .::. Size~: 17.42 KB | Jun 23 18:20 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1738042 | Jun 23 18:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: #humor #funny | Jun 23 18:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Photo by jaume@calispora.org: https://calispora.org/uploads/images/thumb_medium_6a5e81e39d8855bc4def.jpg | Jun 23 18:23 |
| schestowitz | "OH MAN XD" | Jun 23 18:23 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1738042 | Jun 23 18:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: #humor #funny | Jun 23 18:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Photo by jaume@calispora.org: https://calispora.org/uploads/images/thumb_medium_6a5e81e39d8855bc4def.jpg | Jun 23 18:23 |
| schestowitz | "oh God i love this meme face XD" | Jun 23 18:23 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1738711 | Jun 23 18:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: In Soviet... [IMG] http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/4567626_700b_v1.jpg | Jun 23 18:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 23 18:24 |
| schestowitz | "And it's true :D" | Jun 23 18:24 |
| -->Diablo-D3 (diablo@caspar.adterrasperaspera.com) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 18:31 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Sleepy time amidst some construction chaos. I will be cleaning the apartment the whole day tmrw, I guess. | Jun 23 18:34 | |
| <--oddball33 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Jun 23 18:34 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: If an ape throws some shit in a forest and a federally subsidized researcher isn't around to watch, does anyone care? | Jun 23 18:50 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 18:50 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Jun 23 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.jerrydoyle.com/jd-vegas-cam-good-news-or-bad-news-for-economic-recovery-during-the-campaig | Jun 23 18:58 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: JD Vegas Cam: Good News Or Bad News For Economic Recovery During the Campaign? - The Jerry Doyle Show .::. Size~: 27.78 KB | Jun 23 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6229 | Jun 23 19:09 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: #6229 (NYDailyNews rule causes untrusted site warning) – Tor Bug Tracker & Wiki .::. Size~: 9.82 KB | Jun 23 19:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Video: Former #NSA official admits gov't collects most U.S. emails http://goo.gl/6TyWT reminded by @mindboosternoori | Jun 23 19:10 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] There must be a major spammer-proxy here: http://ur1.ca/9ijyv ... a lot of them seem to come from there. | Jun 23 19:10 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Video: Former NSA official admits gov't collects most U.S. emails .::. Size~: 42.33 KB | Jun 23 19:10 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Uk, Russia .::. Size~: 13.9 KB | Jun 23 19:10 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/94847070 | Jun 23 19:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @Bijan (bijan)'s status on Saturday, 23-Jun-12 07:32:40 UTC - Identi.ca: join !FSF campaign against UEFI's Boot policy or "secure boot" implementation. 30,000+ people already joined. !linux bit.ly/nHYBRN :) | Jun 23 19:23 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] @sebsebseb @kevie should be there, but we do try to start just after 8pm, after a lil pre show chat, so we can finish not too late | Jun 23 19:24 | |
| MinceR | gn | Jun 23 19:24 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1738778 | Jun 23 19:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "Europe should thank Erik Josefsson and members of the European Green Party." https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1733951 #diaspora #acta #eu | Jun 23 19:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Final Europarl Committee Rejects ACTA: Internet-Lobbyists, 5-0. http://torrentfreak.com/final-committee-rejects-acta-internet-lobbyists-5-0-120621/ #acta #cronycapitalism | Jun 23 19:24 |
| schestowitz | "Well done!" | Jun 23 19:24 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1733951 | Jun 23 19:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Final Europarl Committee Rejects ACTA: Internet-Lobbyists, 5-0. http://torrentfreak.com/final-committee-rejects-acta-internet-lobbyists-5-0-120621/ #acta #cronycapitalism | Jun 23 19:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Final Europarl Committee Rejects ACTA: Internet-Lobbyists, 5-0. | TorrentFreak .::. Size~: 35.47 KB | Jun 23 19:25 |
| schestowitz | "Indeed. And La Quadrature du Net. And Panoptykon. And many, countless others." | Jun 23 19:25 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1735933 | Jun 23 19:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: Um 20:45 wird zurückgeschossen!  #bild #fail #heimspiel #danzig #euro2012 | Jun 23 19:25 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 23 19:25 |
| schestowitz | "wow, then I guess soon we'll have a "Heimspiel" in "Manchester, UK" :P" | Jun 23 19:25 |
| schestowitz | "Yikes! Is anyone still running #Ubuntu 10.04 LTS? 12.04 is much more fun!" https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1737955 | Jun 23 19:26 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Canonical has finally updated #firefox for their 2010 LTS https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/13.0.1+build1-0ubuntu0.10.04.1 #ubuntu | Jun 23 19:26 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: 13.0.1+build1-0ubuntu0.10.04.1 : “firefox” package : Ubuntu .::. Size~: 52.6 KB | Jun 23 19:26 |
| schestowitz | "And what are the criticisms?" https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1737752 | Jun 23 19:26 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @rsandu@joindiaspora.com: ## Canonical Clarify Ubuntu SecureBoot Plans http://ur1.ca/9jra9 #canonical #ubuntu #gnu #linux #microsoft | Jun 23 19:26 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: NO TITLE .::. Size~: 9.87 KB | Jun 23 19:26 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[silner/@silner] Windows 8 Secure Boot: Two Linux Distros Respond - PC Advisor http://goo.gl/zJxDB | Jun 23 19:29 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Windows 8 Secure Boot: Two Linux Distros Respond - PC Advisor .::. Size~: 118.59 KB | Jun 23 19:29 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[silner/@silner] Now I've had time to think about it, I realise, I don't want secure boot at all. I don't want an appliance; I want a computer | Jun 23 19:30 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] HUGE #Security Resource - version 5000 - 03/06/12, lipstick 2 - Pastebin.com http://goo.gl/qfRNY | Jun 23 19:32 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[silner/@silner] Wikimedia presents new visual editor prototype - The H http://goo.gl/leBrm | Jun 23 19:32 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: HUGE Security Resource - version 5000 - 03/06/12, lipstick 2 - Pastebin.com .::. Size~: 144.63 KB | Jun 23 19:32 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Wikimedia presents new visual editor prototype - The H Open: News and Features .::. Size~: 50.91 KB | Jun 23 19:32 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[silner/@silner] Hacker runs !Debian Linux on Sony Bravia TV, soon XBMC enabled? | MyCE http://goo.gl/jCXa2 | Jun 23 19:37 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @silner Now I've had time to think about it, I realise, I don't want secure boot at all. I don't want an appliance; I want a computer | Jun 23 19:37 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Hacker runs Debian Linux on Sony Bravia TV, soon XBMC enabled? | MyCE – My Consumer Electronics .::. Size~: 26.29 KB | Jun 23 19:37 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[sebsebseb/@sebsebseb] Ok awesome :)! What time should we be on #Mumble at, also what are the server details for that again? | Jun 23 19:42 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] @sebsebseb we all turn up at 8pm or as close to, the server is on our wiki http://ur1.ca/7ys00 | Jun 23 19:44 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Unseen Studio Audiocasts | We don't do DRM .::. Size~: 33.2 KB | Jun 23 19:44 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Learning #Debian GNU/Linux http://goo.gl/BFEBS #docs The Debian Administrator's Handbook http://goo.gl/bjYfN | Jun 23 19:59 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Learning Debian GNU/Linux .::. Size~: 7.79 KB | Jun 23 19:59 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Debian Administrator's Handbook .::. Size~: 52.98 KB | Jun 23 19:59 |
| sebsebseb | http://identi.ca/conversation/94365687 | Jun 23 20:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Conversation - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 20.76 KB | Jun 23 20:05 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Bacon. That's all. Good night :-) | Jun 23 20:19 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[fontana/@fontana] Uh-oh. Now @bkuhn's at 12, I'm down at 31 #losing | Jun 23 20:22 | |
| DaemonFC | http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3700/snapshot6u.png | Jun 23 20:49 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/png type | Jun 23 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | KDE 4.9 | Jun 23 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | (beta 2) | Jun 23 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | if anyone is using Kubuntu 12.04, I highly recommend getting the Pidgin and KDE Telepathy PPAs (not to install Pidgin, but because there's a newer libpurple in there and Telepathy can use that), and then install kde-telepathy | Jun 23 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | it's SO much nicer than Kopete | Jun 23 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | it'll end up being the default in Kubuntu 12.10 with Kopete being removed anyway | Jun 23 20:52 |
| DaemonFC | someone decided that Kopete was safer for an LTS and so they stuck it in there even though it is old and full of bugs | Jun 23 20:52 |
| <--DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) | Jun 23 20:53 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @hannesvdvreken en was hij content? Deze zomer werk van maken | Jun 23 20:59 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: RT @LeafletJS: Just noticed that the number of the awesome people that contributed to Leaflet is now ov http://ur1. ... | Jun 23 20:59 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[fontana/@fontana] !listening to McCoy #Tyner "Three Flowers" http://ur1.ca/9k1fw one of best !jazz piano solos ever | Jun 23 22:35 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Grooveshark - Free Music Streaming, Online Music .::. Size~: 146.27 KB | Jun 23 22:35 |
| formic_ | http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ctIpUmJjkAs msb_ | Jun 23 22:44 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: YouTube - The Reptilian Agenda - David Icke [complete] - Part 1.1.1 .::. Size~: 15.13 KB | Jun 23 22:44 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] when i start sugar on my f17, how do i "mesh" with others? exploring the sugar interface needs some unlearning. but willing. | Jun 23 23:35 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] Yes, that's what I've been doing and sometimes I see others and right now none. | Jun 23 23:55 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] the collaboration is set to http://ur1.ca/9k1no btw | Jun 23 23:57 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Sugar Labs (testing) Central Login .::. Size~: 2.27 KB | Jun 23 23:57 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Canonical has finally updated #firefox for their 2010 LTS http://ur1.ca/9junb #ubuntu | Jun 23 00:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: 13.0.1+build1-0ubuntu0.10.04.1 : “firefox” package : Ubuntu .::. Size~: 52.6 KB | Jun 23 00:09 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: That should have been udpated quite a while ago I Think | Jun 23 00:11 |
| schestowitz | yes | Jun 23 00:13 |
| schestowitz | but FF kept patching 3.6 | Jun 23 00:13 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: they stopped in early April | Jun 23 00:13 |
| sebsebseb | I Think | Jun 23 00:13 |
| sebsebseb | and so that's what I meant by quite a while ago | Jun 23 00:13 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] !Tzaf Identizens sleep tight. | Jun 23 00:14 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Open source Geiger counter successfully kickstarted http://ur1.ca/9juoq | Jun 23 00:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Open source Geiger counter successfully kickstarted - The H Open: News and Features .::. Size~: 49.37 KB | Jun 23 00:17 |
| *XFaCE (6ca17352@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.161.115.82) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 00:22 | |
| XFaCE | anyone seen prurigro? | Jun 23 00:23 |
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| schestowitz | I think he was here earlier | Jun 23 00:28 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Red Hat Enters New Era of Virtualization Scalability http://ur1.ca/9jurn http://ur1.ca/9juro | Jun 23 00:37 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Red Hat's RHEL 6.3 aims at large-scale cloud deployments | Open Source Software - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 99.21 KB | Jun 23 00:37 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Red Hat Enters New Era of Virtualization Scalability .::. Size~: 57.03 KB | Jun 23 00:37 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Video Review: Linux Mint 13 – ReviewLinux.Com http://ur1.ca/9jusp #linuxmint | Jun 23 00:44 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: NO TITLE .::. Size~: 5.82 KB | Jun 23 00:44 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jonobacon/@jonobacon] We have some spare post-lunch 15-min presentation slots at the Community Leadership Summit? Interested? Mail jono AT ubuntu DOT com #cls12 | Jun 23 00:47 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[dpic/@dpic] Hey @KREAYSHAWN wanna hang out at SF Pride this weekend? | Jun 23 00:59 | |
| *oddpuck has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Jun 23 01:02 | |
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| DaemonFC | Mozilla uses their copyrights and trademarks to pull people along and essentially force them to beta test | Jun 23 01:07 |
| schestowitz | "I always have a bootable USB stick in my wallet. It has Linux Mint, Bodhi, Puppy, Tiny Core and Parted Magic. It comes in useful when people ask what is Linux like. You can then boot their laptop with a live distro and show them." https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1736923 | Jun 23 01:17 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @linux@joindiaspora.com: The Live distro ! This is why you should always have one in your pocket … http://linuxaria.com/article/the-live-distro-this-is-why-you-should-always-have-one-in-your-pocket #gnu #linux | Jun 23 01:17 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: » Linuxaria – Everything about GNU/Linux and Open source The Live distro ! This is why you should always have one in your pocket … .::. Size~: 65.69 KB | Jun 23 01:17 |
| DaemonFC | I can't believe that violent crime is still going down with 30% of the country still out of work and with unemployment income that ran out | Jun 23 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | you'd think there would be rioting going on at this point | Jun 23 01:18 |
| scientes | https://lwn.net/Articles/503025/ | Jun 23 01:20 |
| scientes | WAIT | Jun 23 01:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Details on Ubuntu's UEFI secure boot plan [LWN.net] .::. Size~: 32.33 KB | Jun 23 01:20 |
| scientes | how the fuck is fedora going to ship locked-down GPL3 code (grub 2)? | Jun 23 01:20 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[fontana/@fontana] sched.org says my !LinuxCon talk is currently ranked 26 in popularity while @bkuhn's is way down at 45 #winning | Jun 23 01:24 | |
| scientes | however this ubuntu decision is awesomesause | Jun 23 01:27 |
| sebsebseb | scientes: uh what about other distros that arent' Fedora or Ubuntu? | Jun 23 01:27 |
| sebsebseb | and that aren't based on them as well | Jun 23 01:28 |
| scientes | sebsebseb, they can actually just ship the ubuntu preloader, with their own kernels | Jun 23 01:28 |
| sebsebseb | oh ok | Jun 23 01:28 |
| scientes | if they use the ubuntu bootloader, they can use any kernel they want to | Jun 23 01:28 |
| sebsebseb | not really been following this stuff much, but seems Ubuntu are getting rid of Grub w2 | Jun 23 01:28 |
| scientes | this is WAYYY better than fedora's decision | Jun 23 01:28 |
| scientes | nah | Jun 23 01:28 |
| scientes | they actually say right there that they chainload to grub 2 if secureboot is disabled | Jun 23 01:29 |
| sebsebseb | ok | Jun 23 01:29 |
| sebsebseb | yeah think I read something ilke that | Jun 23 01:29 |
| sebsebseb | anyway new boot loader only for UEFI machines by default I guess? | Jun 23 01:29 |
| scientes | this solution is pure awesomeness out of a bad situation | Jun 23 01:29 |
| scientes | any distro can just use ubuntu's bootloader to work out of the box on secure-boot systems | Jun 23 01:29 |
| sebsebseb | oh ok | Jun 23 01:30 |
| sebsebseb | ,but Canoncial still got a key from Microsoft or that company linked to them | Jun 23 01:31 |
| sebsebseb | or whatever? | Jun 23 01:31 |
| scientes | yes they have their bootloader signed with a key that is signed by verisign (re: microsoft) | Jun 23 01:31 |
| scientes | but they are not locking down the whole chain | Jun 23 01:31 |
| sebsebseb | exactly so like some articles are saying or whatever, however they want to spin it, they are still getting a key from Micrsooft | Jun 23 01:31 |
| scientes | yes they are | Jun 23 01:32 |
| scientes | they also have an ubuntu key that OEMs can install | Jun 23 01:32 |
| sebsebseb | ok | Jun 23 01:32 |
| scientes | but for the most part if you want to ship ubuntu, don't ship secure boot | Jun 23 01:32 |
| scientes | or even ship coreboot--(google is) | Jun 23 01:32 |
| sebsebseb | don't really know about coreboot, but ok | Jun 23 01:33 |
| scientes | http://coreboot.org/ | Jun 23 01:33 |
| scientes | free software firmware | Jun 23 01:33 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: coreboot .::. Size~: 24.45 KB | Jun 23 01:33 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.newser.com/article/d9vi8j581/arkansas-supreme-court-declares-execution-law-unconstitutional-siding-with-death-row-inmates.html | Jun 23 01:35 |
| sebsebseb | scientes: oh right yeah the free software bios's | Jun 23 01:35 |
| sebsebseb | I knew those existed | Jun 23 01:35 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Arkansas Supreme Court declares execution law unconstitutional, siding with death row inmates - 6/22/2012 10:04:57 AM | Newser .::. Size~: 103.8 KB | Jun 23 01:35 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[eff/@eff] Will Sudan "pull a Mubarak" amidst protests and cut off the Internet? https://eff.org/r.a9d9 | Jun 23 02:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Will Sudan Pull a Mubarak? | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 33.8 KB | Jun 23 02:09 |
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| *Disconnected (Connection timed out). | Jun 23 02:45 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 23 02:45:37 2012 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 23 02:46:02 2012 | ||
| *Now talking on #techrights | Jun 23 02:46 | |
| *Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell | Jun 23 02:46 | |
| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:20 2012 | Jun 23 02:46 | |
| -NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz. | Jun 23 02:46 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[fontana/@fontana] #Posner dismisses #Apple v. #Motorola with prejudice http://ur1.ca/9jvhr (scribd) | Jun 23 03:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: 6.22 Posner Opinion .::. Size~: 141.65 KB | Jun 23 03:17 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] RT @fontana #Posner dismisses #Apple v. #Motorola with prejudice http://ur1.ca/9jvhr (scribd) | Jun 23 03:42 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: 6.22 Posner Opinion .::. Size~: 141.65 KB | Jun 23 03:42 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @fontana #Posner dismisses #Apple v. #Motorola with prejudice http://ur1.ca/9jvhr (scribd) | Jun 23 03:45 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: 6.22 Posner Opinion .::. Size~: 141.65 KB | Jun 23 03:45 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @AlecJRoss: More from @todd_park: McKinsey estimates value of big open, liquid data in health care at be http://p.ost.im/p/ecp32y | Jun 23 03:54 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @ADarmanin: Well done @DigitalAgendaEU for a great day. Excellent organisation of #da12 do count on @EU_ http://p.ost.im/p/ecWy4p | Jun 23 03:54 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @osimod: Here you can download all #da12 content and platform as open data http://t.co/7oku1BNY http://p.ost.im/p/ectWRr | Jun 23 03:54 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: NO TITLE .::. Size~: 0.13 KB | Jun 23 03:54 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: NO TITLE .::. Size~: 0.13 KB | Jun 23 03:54 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Selected discussions | Digital Agenda Assembly .::. Size~: 84 KB | Jun 23 03:54 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: NO TITLE .::. Size~: 0.13 KB | Jun 23 03:54 |
| DaemonFC | jono WHY YOU NO LIKE FREEEEDOOOOOOM!!!! | Jun 23 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | *troll face* | Jun 23 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | no, not freedoom | Jun 23 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Jun 23 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | seriously though, what's with all the anti-GPL FUD from Canonical lately? | Jun 23 04:03 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Judge Posner: “Take your ball and go home.” Owned.http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/22/3111607/apple-v-motorola-judge... http://b1t.it/bE1J | Jun 23 04:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Verge .::. Size~: 2.95 KB | Jun 23 04:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Nandan Vaidya - Google+ - Judge Posner: “Take your ball and go home.” Owned. … .::. Size~: 156.64 KB | Jun 23 04:14 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] A Business Model Failure Is Not A Moral Issue http://goo.gl/v7MUa | Jun 23 04:30 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: A Business Model Failure Is Not A Moral Issue | Techdirt .::. Size~: 49.24 KB | Jun 23 04:30 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Police Send SWAT Team, Break Into Wrong House (With TV Film Crew) In Response To Internet Troll http://goo.gl/9xRGy | Jun 23 04:37 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Police Send SWAT Team, Break Into Wrong House (With TV Film Crew) In Response To Internet Troll | Techdirt .::. Size~: 116.31 KB | Jun 23 04:37 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] How LinkedIn betrayed 5-man startup Pealk, and why developers should be concerned http://goo.gl/iwojv | Jun 23 04:40 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Developers Should Worry That LinkedIn Betrayed This French Startup .::. Size~: 124.94 KB | Jun 23 04:40 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lwnnet/@lwnnet] Stable kernels 3.0.36 and 3.4.4 http://ur1.ca/9jvsx | Jun 23 04:42 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Stable kernels 3.0.36 and 3.4.4 [LWN.net] .::. Size~: 7.55 KB | Jun 23 04:42 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @tmdpw Er wordt druk gewerkt aan deze tweet voor mobile http://t.co/E60KN9fk | Jun 23 04:44 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: LoQutus RAD Race | Toegepaste Ingenieurswetenschappen: Informatica .::. Size~: 7.8 KB | Jun 23 04:44 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] ♺ @x11r5: ♺ @aseigo: well this sucks: a box of apricots. Awesome | Jun 23 04:52 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lxoliva/@lxoliva] !GNU !Linuxlibre 3.4.4-gnu and 3.0.36-gnu source tarballs are now available | Jun 23 05:00 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Reshared post from Michael Tiemann http://ur1.ca/9jvyh | Jun 23 05:24 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Nandan Vaidya - Google+ - Having read both Emily White's initial post… .::. Size~: 185.92 KB | Jun 23 05:24 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] User's guide to Indian free speech :-http://akhondofswat.blogspot.de/2012/05/users-guide-to-indian-free-speech.htmlhtt... http://b1t.it/bE1Z | Jun 23 05:34 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Akhond of Swat .::. Size~: 170.3 KB | Jun 23 05:34 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Nandan Vaidya - Google+ - User's guide to Indian free speech :- … .::. Size~: 164.95 KB | Jun 23 05:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @kfogel If you have just a hammer, everything's a nail; if you have just markets, everything's for sale. Privatization is a tool, not ... | Jun 23 05:44 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @ovruni ♻ @fsf: Thank you #Debian, for joining w/ the #FSF to oppose Restricted Boot. True Secure Boot requires user control. http:// ... | Jun 23 06:40 | |
| Diablo-D3 | http://narf-archive.com/dp/9ce3214703dca4ed4222e2656e3ad31b7ba2b8c0.jpg | Jun 23 06:44 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Archive™ .::. Size~: 3 KB | Jun 23 06:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know | Jun 23 06:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | in a vague sort of way | Jun 23 06:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | I feel sorry for microsoft | Jun 23 06:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh oh oh | Jun 23 06:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | even better | Jun 23 06:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://narf-archive.com/dp/c74d226bb31f57311b52aa72e72fa17522bfd75b.jpg | Jun 23 06:45 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Archive™ .::. Size~: 3 KB | Jun 23 06:45 |
| *nj3ma (~yaaic@212.49.88.98) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 06:46 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Am kinda an over sharer. Miss you. @ThatRahma | Jun 23 07:27 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] :-) @ThatRahma | Jun 23 07:27 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Sucks being Lebron. | Jun 23 07:37 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] "@OrangeMauritius: Launch of first 4G network in Mauritius by Orange http://t.co/yvIesa3T" !africa | Jun 23 07:45 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Reshared post from Google http://ur1.ca/9jwgg | Jun 23 07:45 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Axes to grind. | Jun 23 07:45 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Twitter / ? .::. Size~: 5.61 KB | Jun 23 07:45 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Nandan Vaidya - Google+ - Today we're marking the birth of a someone who is a hero to… .::. Size~: 171.92 KB | Jun 23 07:45 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] "She said she'd be back to give me her number. Still waiting. Sad bit is I'd have wifed her" | Jun 23 07:47 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] I'll Never Be Any Good on the Guitar was a kickass name for a rock band. | Jun 23 07:47 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Was a mouthful, so we'd just go by "Any Good on the Guitar" most times. | Jun 23 07:50 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] RT @zach Oh man, the new Microsoft tablet looks like an epically terrible product. Exactly what I expected. | Jun 23 07:50 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2012/6/21/china-nvidia-loses-face-and-a-10-million-pc-order-over-linux-drivers-and-nres.aspx | Jun 23 07:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: China: NVIDIA Loses Face and a 10 Million PC Order over Linux Drivers and NRE's - Bright Side Of News* .::. Size~: 86.59 KB | Jun 23 07:53 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Just voted in a doodle poll by @mralanorth #nairobilug | Jun 23 07:55 | |
| roy | "Yeah, both Novacut and Lightworks are bringing really great video editing to Linux... finally!" https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1727539 | Jun 23 08:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #Lightworks Running On Ubuntu; Pro Film Editing Coming To Linux? http://www.muktware.com/3705/lightworks-running-ubuntu-pro-film-editing-coming-linux #ubuntu #linux | Jun 23 08:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Lightworks Running On Ubuntu; Pro Film Editing Coming To Linux? .::. Size~: 28.71 KB | Jun 23 08:14 |
| roy | "Could be awesome... I'm just waiting to see source and what license it's under." | Jun 23 08:14 |
| roy | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1729328 | Jun 23 08:15 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Is #Calligra A Great Alternative to LibreOffice? http://maketecheasier.com/is-calligra-a-great-alternative-to-libreoffice/2012/06/18 #kde #odf | Jun 23 08:15 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Is Calligra A Great Alternative to LibreOffice? .::. Size~: 44.52 KB | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | "@Bugs_Bane - that's a very interresting point. In fact, I've seen inconsistencies in displaying ODT files [which were created in LO] in both Calligra and Abword ... which makes me think it may be LibeOffice' fault. Need to make some more tests to nail it down." | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | @EXN - I just saved a file in ODT format and word is unable to open it. Now for me that's not a problem, but on the one hand I interact with a number of people who struggle to use a computer, let alone worrying what applications to use to open a file in an odd format. On the other hand I deal with people in business, and, like it or not, the only acceptable format for them is that chosen by Microsoft. | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | I'm curious as to which versions of word have problems opening previous versions? I have .doc files going back to1995 that I am able to open in Office 2008 for Mac. | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | @Ancient_Mariner - well, you see, serious businesses usually use PDF format, because it is the only way to avoid displaying and formatting problems. The smaller ones don't usually get the whole point and use Word because that's the only thing they know and that's what they use in HOME. Business policies are usualy strict on what document formats are allowed, what type of software is allowed, what can and what cannot be installed on computers. | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | For example, in my old workplace when I used to be an admin we had some policies like "ODT internally - PDF for the client | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 08:15 |
| roy | "I've only worked in Pharma/healthcare/diagnostics, but all the companies I've interacted with have used word for documents, excel for data, powerpoint for presentations. PDF was reserved for official documents sent to customers that could not be changed (of course they can be changed, but most ordinary people didn't have the software to do so). I'm not sure what you'd consider a serious business - the last corp I worked for was Beckman | Jun 23 08:16 |
| roy | Coulter." | Jun 23 08:16 |
| roy | "Well, by "serious" I mean those who do care for interoperability and their workflow, not the actual size of the company ;) I was an IT admin in middle-sized company in Poland [mostly international steel trading] and couple other places. I obviously have no actual knowledge of US ecosystem, as I've never even been to US, so the policies I'm talking about may be a "standard" here, but not necessarily in other countries/ | Jun 23 08:16 |
| roy | states. I suppose it is a real pain to have local software monopoly, but I'l be glad to know your opinion in this subject" | Jun 23 08:16 |
| roy | "I'd guess that the IT depts of almost every US and UK company would see microsoft software as the universal standard that guarantees interoperability. There are a few that use open source (as far as I recall, Peavey, the music company do) but they really are a rarity. Beckman (>10,000 worldwide) had a standard build for PCs which included microsoft office, and they seemed typical of all the other businesses I've worked with." | Jun 23 08:16 |
| roy | "OpenOffice right now feels a bit like Firefox did in early noughties. There's a surprisingly huge number of casual self-selected users." | Jun 23 08:16 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 08:17 |
| roy | Well, If we are about to point our finger on anyone, then MS would be the one to be blamed. Closed document format specification leaves open source developers pretty much no choice but guessing. It's still a wonder that they eventually came up with some sort of "support" for this closed spec od DOC/DOCX. | Jun 23 08:17 |
| roy | Personaly I use Linux exclusively, mixing it only with variety of other UNIX-based OSs like *BSD, occasionaly OSX [IF I really have to]. From all of this I must say ODT is the only solution that works right OOTB on every platform I use. Obviously it works on Windows too, but I don't know | Jun 23 08:17 |
| roy | " | Jun 23 08:17 |
| *roy is now known as schestowitz | Jun 23 08:17 | |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1726241 | Jun 23 08:22 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Microsoft’s Jim Allchin: “I am Scared [of GNU/Linux]” http://techrights.org/2009/01/18/allchin-scared-of-gnu-linux/ #linux | Jun 23 08:22 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Microsoft’s Jim Allchin: “I am Scared [of GNU/Linux]” (Analysts Cartel Part II) | Techrights .::. Size~: 127.18 KB | Jun 23 08:22 |
| schestowitz | "He doesn't use the phrase GNU/Linux anywhere in that correspondence..." | Jun 23 08:22 |
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| *DaemonFC is listening to Whole New Way by Scissor Sisters on Night Work [Amarok] | Jun 23 08:29 | |
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| schestowitz | http://www.reddit.com/r/opensource/comments/vgjo0/open_source_geiger_counter_successfully/ | Jun 23 08:35 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Open source Geiger counter successfully kickstarted - The H Open: News and Features : opensource .::. Size~: 43 KB | Jun 23 08:35 |
| schestowitz | "How cheap could that be? Schematics available?" | Jun 23 08:35 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Welcome To Ubuntu's Penguin Bar - How Can I Help You? http://ur1.ca/9jwyx #ubuntu #gnu #linux | Jun 23 08:47 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Welcome To Ubuntu’s Penguin Bar – How Can I Help You? « FOSS Force .::. Size~: 85.27 KB | Jun 23 08:47 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] The death of an HTML5 game breeds an open source project http://ur1.ca/9jwzi #opensource | Jun 23 08:50 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Open Source Community: The death of an HTML5 game breeds an open source project .::. Size~: 85.23 KB | Jun 23 08:51 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] ♻ @naomirwolf They can legislate for vaginal probes but if a woman says the word it's a scandal? http://www.ur1.ca/9jwzu #vagina #freespeech | Jun 23 08:54 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ml2mst/@ml2mst] RT @bijan join !FSF campaign against UEFI's Boot policy or "secure boot" implementation. 30,000+ people already joined. !linux bit.ly/n ... | Jun 23 08:54 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] This Week in #Linux http://ur1.ca/9jx07 | Jun 23 08:54 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Vagina: say it loud, Lisa Brown | Naomi Wolf | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 246.21 KB | Jun 23 08:54 |
| scientes | schestowitz, you see the turing machine? | Jun 23 08:54 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: This Week in Linux .::. Size~: 38.2 KB | Jun 23 08:54 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Congrats to Charles-H. Schulz. from #mandriva and #libreoffice http://ur1.ca/9jpss | Jun 23 08:55 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Wedding .::. Size~: 42.14 KB | Jun 23 08:55 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] #NVIDIA Loses Huge #GPU Order Due To #Linux Blob http://ur1.ca/9jx1s add the caption... | Jun 23 09:04 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: [Phoronix] NVIDIA Loses Huge GPU Order Due To Linux Blob .::. Size~: 18.65 KB | Jun 23 09:04 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[faither/@faither] ♻ @thistleweb: Police Send SWAT Team, Break Into Wrong House (With TV Film Crew) In Response To Internet Troll http://goo.gl/9xRGy | Jun 23 09:07 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Police Send SWAT Team, Break Into Wrong House (With TV Film Crew) In Response To Internet Troll | Techdirt .::. Size~: 125.28 KB | Jun 23 09:07 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Google updates Android developer site ahead of Google I/O http://ur1.ca/9jx2b #android #linux | Jun 23 09:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Google updates Android developer site ahead of Google I/O - The H Open: News and Features .::. Size~: 50.15 KB | Jun 23 09:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] #Nokia sales estimates slashed after news of #Vista Phone 8 http://ur1.ca/9jx3d worse than garbage. #microsoft #entryism #mole | Jun 23 09:14 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Massive #linux tablets deployment http://ur1.ca/9jx3e (Thailand signs the world’s largest educational tablet distribution deal) | Jun 23 09:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Nokia sales estimates slashed after news of Windows Phone 8 | Mobile - CNET News .::. Size~: 89.23 KB | Jun 23 09:14 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Thailand signs the world's largest educational tablet distribution deal | Digital Trends .::. Size~: 61.55 KB | Jun 23 09:14 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] The Linux Graphics Stack http://ur1.ca/9jt1l #linux #kernel | Jun 23 09:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Linux Graphics Stack | Clean Rinse .::. Size~: 115.55 KB | Jun 23 09:17 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[faither/@faither] ♻@fsf:Thank you #Debian, for joining w/ the #FSF to oppose Restricted Boot. True Secure Boot requires user control http://ur1.ca/5fg95 #gnu | Jun 23 09:19 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Stand up for your freedom to install free software — Free Software Foundation — working together for free software .::. Size~: 43.6 KB | Jun 23 09:19 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Linux-based Supercomputers Land 462 Spots in TOP500 List http://ur1.ca/9jx45 #gnu #linux #hpc | Jun 23 09:20 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Linux-based Supercomputers Land 462 Spots in TOP500 List | Linux.com .::. Size~: 39.47 KB | Jun 23 09:20 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] In Soviet... [IMG] http://ur1.ca/9jx4e | Jun 23 09:22 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 23 09:22 |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) | Jun 23 09:24 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] #BT has been terrible garbage for over a day. Landline issues, slow Internet, disconnections. They don't even acknowledge this. | Jun 23 09:27 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "In a nutshell, sometimes it is OK to get offended; social mismatches happen." http://ur1.ca/9jx5d | Jun 23 09:32 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Harassment vs. Offense | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 46.18 KB | Jun 23 09:32 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] KDE To Become More Social http://ur1.ca/9jx5k #kde always at the forefront | Jun 23 09:34 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: KDE To Become More Social .::. Size~: 28.07 KB | Jun 23 09:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] New to Linux? #ZorinOS 6 Makes the Transition Easy http://ur1.ca/9jx6c #gnu #linux | Jun 23 09:37 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: New to Linux? Zorin OS 6 Makes the Transition Easy | PCWorld Business Center .::. Size~: 80.1 KB | Jun 23 09:37 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Review: #Netrunner 4.2 LTS "Dryland" SE http://ur1.ca/9jx6q #gnu #linux | Jun 23 09:39 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Das U-Blog by Prashanth: Review: Netrunner 4.2 LTS "Dryland" SE .::. Size~: 117.55 KB | Jun 23 09:39 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Gnome’s 10 big goals for 2013/14 http://ur1.ca/9jx81 #gnu #linux#gnome #desktop #development | Jun 23 09:45 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Gnome’s 10 big goals for 2013/14 | woGue .::. Size~: 33.55 KB | Jun 23 09:45 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Unsolicited but Offered: Linux on Film: Supernatural Season 7 Episode 20 (with Felicia Day) http://ur1.ca/9jx8b #linux | Jun 23 09:47 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] Karma's a bitch, ain't it, noVideo? #nVidia loses huge order due to closed driver: bit.ly/LdWqb5 /via @cyberkiller | Jun 23 09:47 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Unsolicited but Offered: Linux on Film: Supernatural Season 7 Episode 20 (with Felicia Day) .::. Size~: 24.29 KB | Jun 23 09:47 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1735933 | Jun 23 09:50 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: Um 20:45 wird zurückgeschossen!  #bild #fail #heimspiel #danzig #euro2012 | Jun 23 09:50 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 23 09:50 |
| schestowitz | "didn't know you understand German :·>" | Jun 23 09:50 |
| schestowitz | I'm a German citizen | Jun 23 09:50 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "Once GNU is written, everyone will be able to obtain good system software free, just like air." -Richard M. Stallman | Jun 23 09:50 | |
| schestowitz | '"Um x Uhr wird zurückgeschossen" ist über mehrere Sprachen bekannt #' | Jun 23 09:50 |
| schestowitz | "Years of work and lobbying in the name of the people seem to have paid off. Europe should thank Erik Josefsson and members of the European Green Party." https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1733951 | Jun 23 09:51 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Final Europarl Committee Rejects ACTA: Internet-Lobbyists, 5-0. http://torrentfreak.com/final-committee-rejects-acta-internet-lobbyists-5-0-120621/ #acta #cronycapitalism | Jun 23 09:51 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Final Europarl Committee Rejects ACTA: Internet-Lobbyists, 5-0. | TorrentFreak .::. Size~: 35.47 KB | Jun 23 09:51 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] In bid for patent sanity, judge throws out entire Apple/Motorola case - http://bit.ly/NuCdT9 hooray - more judges like this please | Jun 23 09:52 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "Europe should thank Erik Josefsson and members of the European Green Party." http://ur1.ca/9jx8w #diaspora #acta #eu | Jun 23 09:52 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: In bid for patent sanity, judge throws out entire Apple/Motorola case | Ars Technica .::. Size~: 34.91 KB | Jun 23 09:52 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Final Europarl Co... .::. Size~: 11.58 KB | Jun 23 09:52 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] How I Accidentally Kickstarted the Domestic #Drone Boom - http://bit.ly/LdWTtS good intro to important area | Jun 23 09:55 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "Committed to ecology, social justice grassroots democracy and non-violence" http://ur1.ca/9jx99 #greenparty #us | Jun 23 09:55 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: How I Accidentally Kickstarted the Domestic Drone Boom | Danger Room | Wired.com .::. Size~: 77.58 KB | Jun 23 09:55 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Green Party of the United States | About .::. Size~: 21.51 KB | Jun 23 09:55 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1732275 | Jun 23 09:55 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #GIMP 2.8 on Linux: a Story of Pride and Pain http://pclinuxos2007.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/gimp-28-on-linux-story-of-pride-and.html #gnu #linux | Jun 23 09:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: PCLinuxOS - the Big Daddy of all Desktop Linux Distributions: GIMP 2.8 on Linux: a Story of Pride and Pain .::. Size~: 105.26 KB | Jun 23 09:56 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 23 09:56 |
| schestowitz | This guy doesn't understand that DistributionA needs packages made for DistributionA, not DistributionB o DistributionZ... | Jun 23 09:56 |
| schestowitz | If he wants today's software in yesterday's systems, he shold (ask for someone to) make packages for it. | Jun 23 09:56 |
| schestowitz | Using wrong versions of packages (clearly made for other distributions) and complaining of breakage is... well, let's say "not intelligent". | Jun 23 09:56 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 23 09:56 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1734854 | Jun 23 09:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: ### CIA, NSA may have infiltrated Microsoft to write malware http://www.itworld.com/security/281553/researcher-warns-stuxnet-flame-show-microsoft-may-have-been-infiltrated-nsa-cia > A leading security researcher has suggested Microsoft's core Windows and application development programming teams have been infiltrated by covert programmer/operatives from U.S. intelligence agencies. #windows #microsoft #linux | Jun 23 09:56 |
| schestowitz | "They didn't infiltrate. They didn't have to. Three letter government agewncies have been live-in guests in the Microsoft programming department for over a decade to my knowledge." | Jun 23 09:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Researcher: CIA, NSA may have infiltrated Microsoft to write malware | ITworld .::. Size~: 134.92 KB | Jun 23 09:56 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] Almost 02:00 in the morning and I'm watching YT videos. http://ur1.ca/439vd /cc @patrickniedzielski | Jun 23 10:00 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Human League - Don't you want me 1982 - YouTube .::. Size~: 145.44 KB | Jun 23 10:00 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] Oh! @phoronix has an !identica account! nifty! | Jun 23 10:02 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] "Obama accelerated covert cyber attacks against Iran that began during the Bush admin " http://ur1.ca/9jxa8 http://ur1.ca/9jxa9 #microsoft | Jun 23 10:04 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Stuxnet: U.S. Can Launch Cyberattacks But Not Defend Against Them, Experts Say .::. Size~: 460.46 KB | Jun 23 10:04 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: BBC News - Flame and Stuxnet makers 'co-operated' on code .::. Size~: 76.08 KB | Jun 23 10:04 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] obama+ballmer=campaign money (Ballmer and his wife), #lobbying http://ur1.ca/9jxfz http://ur1.ca/9jxg7 http://ur1.ca/9jxg8 | Jun 23 10:05 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Is Steve Ballmer Blackmailing Obama? | Techrights .::. Size~: 114.19 KB | Jun 23 10:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: United States of Steve Ballmer | Techrights .::. Size~: 106.72 KB | Jun 23 10:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Steve Ballmer Visits Obama Once Again as His Fight Against Google Continues | Techrights .::. Size~: 126.86 KB | Jun 23 10:05 |
| schestowitz | jono: https://twitter.com/davidgerard/status/216454773665304577?uid=26603208&iid=am-42194999313404418144352154&nid=27+236 | Jun 23 10:06 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @davidgerard: @schestowitz when Bacon writes something like that, it's always been him or his boss having really been a dick. What inspired it this time? | Jun 23 10:06 |
| schestowitz | was somebody gagged/censored by Ubuntu/Canonical? | Jun 23 10:07 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] ♻@edwinbendyk Alan #Turing nie popełnił samobójstwa, dziś Jack Copeland ujawni dowody przeciwko tezie o samobójstwie http://t.co/9lXzGCyp | Jun 23 10:07 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: BBC News - Alan Turing: Inquest's suicide verdict 'not supportable' .::. Size~: 93.16 KB | Jun 23 10:07 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Good morning! Here, I baked bread for y'all :-) http://ur1.ca/9jxhs... http://b1t.it/bE4a | Jun 23 10:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.61 KB | Jun 23 10:09 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Good morning! Here, I baked bread for y'all :-) .::. Size~: 125.83 KB | Jun 23 10:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Free #NVIDIA graphics driver reaches version 1.0 http://ur1.ca/9jxi2 blobs in the #kernel can have one's PC hijacked | Jun 23 10:10 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Free NVIDIA graphics driver reaches version 1.0 - The H Open: News and Features .::. Size~: 49.63 KB | Jun 23 10:10 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1735765 | Jun 23 10:13 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Based on debates I had with #Canonical staff yesterday, #ubuntu bending over to #Microsoft on #UEFI seems imminent. Disappointing. | Jun 23 10:13 |
| schestowitz | "Care to elaborate? Who did you talk to?" | Jun 23 10:13 |
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| *protfromkpax (59ad07a3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.173.7.163) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 10:15 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @rysiek @jacobwb :/ I don't get it, those accounts can be automagically linked with #twitter ones. | Jun 23 10:17 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] The fact that the UK government still hasn't pardoned Alan Turing is a real scandal IMHO. | Jun 23 10:19 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @eff Big telecoms should stay out of international Internet governance http://ur1.ca/9jubj | Jun 23 10:19 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @eff 5,000 signers on our newly launched Defend Innovation campaign against software patents. Help us get to 6,000: http://ur1.ca/9j6jw | Jun 23 10:19 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Global Telecom Governance Debated at European Parliament Workshop | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 41.35 KB | Jun 23 10:19 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Defend Innovation .::. Size~: 39.28 KB | Jun 23 10:19 |
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| schestowitz | "Care to share?" https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1736779 | Jun 23 10:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @randallr@joindiaspora.com: Critics and accusors ought to put forward their own proposal to fix the #uefi on #ubuntu issue. http://ur1.ca/9jrh4 I'm curious. What is *your* proposal Dr. Roy? What should #Canonical do? And, what should the community that is #ubuntu (and not Canonical do)? Is there a silver bullet we're all oblivious to? | Jun 23 10:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Ubuntu and UEFI | Techrights .::. Size~: 86.87 KB | Jun 23 10:24 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] @rysiek @jacobwb You can use something like Ping.fm and post to both at once. | Jun 23 10:25 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] And in case you wonder - this is the bread maker. http://ur1.ca/9jxl3... http://b1t.it/bE4k | Jun 23 10:29 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.61 KB | Jun 23 10:29 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - And in case you wonder - this is the bread maker. .::. Size~: 131.62 KB | Jun 23 10:29 |
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| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:20 2012 | Jun 23 11:04 | |
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| iophk | Yes, and he prevented them from wasting more time by refiling. 'With prejudice' means that neither can refile. | Jun 23 11:05 |
| iophk | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/06/in-bid-for-patent-sanity-judge-throws-out-entire-applemotorola-case/ | Jun 23 11:05 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: In bid for patent sanity, judge throws out entire Apple/Motorola case | Ars Technica .::. Size~: 34.98 KB | Jun 23 11:05 |
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| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012 | Jun 23 11:23 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] I can see a *lot* Asians talking in the #ACTA twitter hashtag - anything particular happening in Asia now? !ACTA !copyfraud | Jun 23 11:25 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ml2mst/@ml2mst] Eeew, Microslop Windowze on the Manchester Alan #Turing Conference screen. I bet Turing would prefer #gnu #linux | Jun 23 11:25 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] Ctl+Shift+Alt+R in Gnome 3 triggers screencast recording and saves a .webm file in Video dir. Nice! http://ur1.ca/3w1j1 #in | Jun 23 11:34 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: GnomeShell/CheatSheet - GNOME Live! .::. Size~: 28.86 KB | Jun 23 11:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[silner/@silner] !Android | Judge Throws Out #Apple vs #Motorola Patent Case – Nobody’s Getting Banned… For Now http://goo.gl/9NRFg | Jun 23 11:39 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Judge Throws Out Apple vs Motorola Patent Case – Nobody’s Getting Banned… For Now .::. Size~: 39.49 KB | Jun 23 11:39 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[silner/@silner] RT @harishpillay Ctl+Shift+Alt+R in Gnome 3 triggers screencast recording and saves a .webm file in Video dir. Nice! http://ur1.ca/3w1j1 #in | Jun 23 11:42 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: GnomeShell/CheatSheet - GNOME Live! .::. Size~: 28.86 KB | Jun 23 11:42 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] This is the first #caturday after INTA !ACTA vote. RELEASE TEH CUTE KITTEHS! | Jun 23 12:02 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] WE HAVE CUTE CATS AND WE ARE NOT AFRAID TO USE THEM! bit.ly/MgpDVY cower before us in terror, !ACTA supporters. | Jun 23 12:05 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] A tribute to #Turing, the father of modern computing - http://bit.ly/LPe3E6 don't the turing doodle... | Jun 23 12:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Official Google Blog: A tribute to Turing, the father of modern computing .::. Size~: 25.53 KB | Jun 23 12:17 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] Get your copy of JBoss Developer Studio 5.0 and deploy your apps to http://ur1.ca/9a4s1 - http://ur1.ca/9jy3s #in | Jun 23 12:19 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: OpenShift by Red Hat .::. Size~: 9.74 KB | Jun 23 12:19 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: JBoss Developer Studio - Early Access - Build 5.0.0.v20120615-1714-H213-GA .::. Size~: 8.83 KB | Jun 23 12:19 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] After Oracle, OpenSolaris rises again - http://bit.ly/LpoDAf good to know | Jun 23 12:20 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: After Oracle, OpenSolaris rises again | Open Source Software - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 104.34 KB | Jun 23 12:20 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] JBoss Dev Studio 5.0 has smarts to deploy your apps to OpenShift - JBDS: http://ur1.ca/9jy3s #in | Jun 23 12:24 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: JBoss Developer Studio - Early Access - Build 5.0.0.v20120615-1714-H213-GA .::. Size~: 8.83 KB | Jun 23 12:24 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Chilling with @migetan and @robanskie | Jun 23 12:25 | |
| Omega | http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/29834/ | Jun 23 12:44 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Idea #29834: "More reliable and thorough information for users, and not diluting Free Software" - Ubuntu brainstorm .::. Size~: 53.73 KB | Jun 23 12:44 |
| Omega | Can someone with an account clear up Auzy's misconception | Jun 23 12:44 |
| Omega | "If you modify GPL software, you MUST distribute your software changes. If you use GPL3 software on devices, you MUST allow the firmware on the device to be externally modifiable. " | Jun 23 12:45 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] #ni Mapzen POI Collector. !osm | Jun 23 12:47 | |
| oiaohm | Omega: not correct | Jun 23 12:47 |
| oiaohm | GPLv3 does not have to allow the firmware to be externally modifiable. | Jun 23 12:47 |
| oiaohm | Ie if GPLv3 is placed on a rom chip | Jun 23 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Not against the rules. | Jun 23 12:48 |
| oiaohm | GPLv3 does limit some ways you can restrict flash from being replacable. | Jun 23 12:48 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] ♻ @iloveubuntu: #Ubuntu in the wild: a little girl's reaction to Ubuntu 12.04 http://ur1.ca/9jy5d | Jun 23 12:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Ubuntu in the wild: a little girl's reaction to Ubuntu 12.04 | Iloveubuntu: Ubuntu blog .::. Size~: 32.35 KB | Jun 23 12:49 |
| oiaohm | Omega: remember dvd/cd not changable either. | Jun 23 12:50 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] "You do not have permission to open this page. mapzen:osm_callback? oauth_token=ygy67ZBPGlZO2MpH55xRlb1" Authentication failure :-( | Jun 23 12:55 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] http://ur1.ca/57bug oAuth authentication error. | Jun 23 12:57 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: OpenStreetMap .::. Size~: 16.84 KB | Jun 23 12:57 |
| MinceR | geekings | Jun 23 12:58 |
| Omega | oiaohm: and you are not forced to distribute your software changes if it's just for private use | Jun 23 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Omega: or internal company. | Jun 23 13:02 |
| Omega | I don't have the login details of my brainstorm account handy so I can't reply | Jun 23 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Omega: gpl only forces source to be given to those who receive the program. | Jun 23 13:05 |
| Omega | indeed | Jun 23 13:05 |
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| oiaohm | Omega: 3. Protecting Users' Legal Rights From Anti-Circumvention Law. << its this seciton of gplv3 that is miss read. | Jun 23 13:21 |
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| oiaohm | Omega: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html | Jun 23 13:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The GNU General Public License v3.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) .::. Size~: 44.35 KB | Jun 23 13:23 |
| oiaohm | Basically you can use measures to prevent users replacing firmware. | Jun 23 13:23 |
| oiaohm | But if they do succeed you have given up you right to legally hunt users down for doing it. | Jun 23 13:24 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia - http://bit.ly/LoLAW0 powerful piece about a cartel of greed (v @boingboing) | Jun 23 13:27 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Scam Wall Street Learned From the Mafia | Politics News | Rolling Stone .::. Size~: 68.82 KB | Jun 23 13:27 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Rbutr finds contrary opinions for stories you’re reading - http://bit.ly/O99AO0 intriguing #journalism | Jun 23 13:29 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: NO TITLE .::. Size~: 11.82 KB | Jun 23 13:29 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] The NYPD kills again - http://bit.ly/LPoirN awful if confirmed | Jun 23 13:32 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The NYPD kills again | SocialistWorker.org .::. Size~: 29.19 KB | Jun 23 13:32 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Die EU will immer noch Netz-Sperren, jetzt sogar weltweit - http://bit.ly/L3et5s even though it won't address the problem | Jun 23 13:34 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Die EU will immer noch Netz-Sperren, jetzt sogar weltweit › netzpolitik.org .::. Size~: 65.05 KB | Jun 23 13:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Henryk Górecki: Chronological Collection - http://bit.ly/KEJfoB don't miss the wonderful concerto for harpsichord & string quartet #spotify | Jun 23 13:39 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Spotify Classical Playlists: Henryk Górecki: Chronological Collection .::. Size~: 124.47 KB | Jun 23 13:39 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Ungelivable - http://bit.ly/L3gI8Q nice discussion of factitious chinglishisms #linguistics | Jun 23 13:45 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Language Log » Ungelivable .::. Size~: 60.44 KB | Jun 23 13:45 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Amazon Studios goes head-to-head with Netflix, selects first 4 original TV projects for production - http://tnw.co/POu7nS 1st books, now TV | Jun 23 13:50 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Amazon Studios Selects First Four Original TV Projects, Rivals Netflix .::. Size~: 106.92 KB | Jun 23 13:50 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] Video showing how easy it is to use JBoss Dev Studio and work with OpenShift - http://ur1.ca/9jyjt #in | Jun 23 14:02 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] RT @glynmoody A tribute to #Turing, the father of modern computing - http://bit.ly/LPe3E6 don't the turing doodle... | Jun 23 14:02 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Getting started with OpenShift using JBoss Tools on Vimeo .::. Size~: 31.43 KB | Jun 23 14:02 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Official Google Blog: A tribute to Turing, the father of modern computing .::. Size~: 25.53 KB | Jun 23 14:02 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] US coach #JerrySandusky #guilty of #PennState sex abuse http://goo.gl/2TERw | Jun 23 14:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: BBC News - US coach Jerry Sandusky guilty of Penn State sex abuse .::. Size~: 85.34 KB | Jun 23 14:17 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Internet trolls target newlyweds http://goo.gl/lp8WW | Jun 23 14:22 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Internet trolls target newlyweds | UK news | The Guardian .::. Size~: 62.29 KB | Jun 23 14:22 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] the #Sun doing what comes naturaly to them http://goo.gl/l41zM linch mobs going after a celeb to find any excuse to smear them for profit | Jun 23 14:25 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jimmy Carr's dad speaks on his eight-year feud with his tax-dodging son | The Sun |News .::. Size~: 58.7 KB | Jun 23 14:25 |
| brendyn | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEyNDY | Jun 23 14:33 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: [Phoronix] Ubuntu's Plans To Implement UEFI SecureBoot: No GRUB2 .::. Size~: 20.33 KB | Jun 23 14:33 |
| brendyn | im not really sure if their doing anything bad since i dont know much about how uefi works. is this a gpl problem? | Jun 23 14:33 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Laocoön - http://tcrn.ch/MqBx13 an entertainingly odd, and oddly entertaining little piece... #conway #apple | Jun 23 14:37 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Laocoön | TechCrunch .::. Size~: 67.28 KB | Jun 23 14:37 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jankusanagi/@jankusanagi] @rysiek forgotten (surprise!), but yes | Jun 23 14:39 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Me = proud. Entertainment center working. Projector, motorized screen, all cables invisible, all working! https://plus... http://b1t.it/bE7h | Jun 23 14:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Couldn't resolve host 'plus...' ( https://plus... ) | Jun 23 14:49 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Me = proud. Entertainment center working. Projector,… .::. Size~: 134.6 KB | Jun 23 14:49 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] ♺ @glynmoody: The NYPD kills again - http://bit.ly/LPoirN awful if confirmed - laws should apply equally to everyone #landofthefree | Jun 23 15:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The NYPD kills again | SocialistWorker.org .::. Size~: 29.19 KB | Jun 23 15:14 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Smart TVs are vulnerable to attacks http://goo.gl/L1srQ #security | Jun 23 15:25 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Smart TVs are vulnerable to attacks .::. Size~: 40.98 KB | Jun 23 15:25 |
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| *Justin-- (43c1fca6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.193.252.166) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 15:40 | |
| *Justin-- is now known as Justin_- | Jun 23 15:40 | |
| Justin_- | hey I've seen some articles on techrights.org saying c# is a poor choice, I wondered if anyone could tell me more and what the alternatives are | Jun 23 15:42 |
| MinceR | first of all, there's the language they copied badly to make it: java | Jun 23 15:42 |
| MinceR | but in general it depends on what you're trying to do | Jun 23 15:43 |
| Justin_- | I want type safety, garbage collection, no risk of memory corruption, and native performance as a minimum | Jun 23 15:44 |
| MinceR | D might also do that, though i haven't tried it yet | Jun 23 15:45 |
| Justin_- | and no need to work alongside a language missing these features, like the C/python paradigm | Jun 23 15:45 |
| MinceR | you can use a garbage collector with C++ | Jun 23 15:45 |
| MinceR | but yes, the primary answer would seem to be Java there | Jun 23 15:46 |
| Justin_- | I really like C++, a miss some things from C++ in C#, but memory corruption is an issue | Jun 23 15:46 |
| MinceR | what memory corruption? | Jun 23 15:46 |
| MinceR | misuse of pointers? | Jun 23 15:47 |
| Justin_- | yeah | Jun 23 15:47 |
| MinceR | you could use safer pointer classes, i think | Jun 23 15:47 |
| MinceR | (or smarter) | Jun 23 15:48 |
| Justin_- | true | Jun 23 15:48 |
| Justin_- | there are details though about using a gc and safe memory access in C++ that I didn't find workable, it's a lot of why I switched to C# | Jun 23 15:49 |
| Justin_- | D looks interesting though, is the performance good? | Jun 23 15:50 |
| MinceR | Qt also offers implicit sharing which lets you hand objects around as if you were passing them by value and yet avoid most of the overhead from it | Jun 23 15:51 |
| MinceR | (for C++) | Jun 23 15:51 |
| Justin_- | nice | Jun 23 15:51 |
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| MinceR | i don't know D too well, and apparently it has disappeared from the benchmarks at http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ | Jun 23 15:52 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Computer Language Benchmarks Game .::. Size~: 31.76 KB | Jun 23 15:52 |
| Justin_- | it looks like it does compile into native code | Jun 23 15:53 |
| Justin_- | unlike python etc | Jun 23 15:53 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Opponents of gay marriages say it will 'open the door to polygamy and incest' http://goo.gl/Qjlyx lol clueless FUD | Jun 23 15:54 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Opponents of gay marriages say it will 'open the door to polygamy and incest' | Society | The Observer .::. Size~: 260.64 KB | Jun 23 15:54 |
| MinceR | to be fair, there are ways to accelerate python | Jun 23 15:54 |
| MinceR | (but i haven't tried them yet) | Jun 23 15:54 |
| MinceR | PyPy, Psyco, Pyrex | Jun 23 15:54 |
| MinceR | and many others | Jun 23 15:54 |
| Justin_- | true but I mean in dynamically typed languages where any symbol can have any meaning and be changed at any time, the framework has to be there to accommodate those changes | Jun 23 15:55 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jun 23 15:56 |
| MinceR | but that framework doesn't have to be particularly heavy | Jun 23 15:56 |
| Justin_- | I don't know but you definitely can't just assert that 'X' and 'Y' will be ints and compile X+=Y to an "add" instruction and leave it at that | Jun 23 15:57 |
| MinceR | theoretically, a JIT compiler/optimizer can do that | Jun 23 15:57 |
| MinceR | and be ready for the case when they happen to be something else :) | Jun 23 15:57 |
| Justin_- | right | Jun 23 15:57 |
| Justin_- | javascript is getting pretty speedy based on that | Jun 23 15:57 |
| Justin_- | I don't like the dynamic approach programmatically either though | Jun 23 15:58 |
| Justin_- | it introduces corruption risks | Jun 23 15:58 |
| Justin_- | like you mistype something and it manifests as errata | Jun 23 15:58 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Cc +Ricarda Riechert. Hatte Heute auch Post. http://ur1.ca/9jz0j... http://b1t.it/bE7X | Jun 23 15:59 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.61 KB | Jun 23 15:59 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Cc +Ricarda Riechert. Hatte Heute auch Post. .::. Size~: 128.81 KB | Jun 23 15:59 |
| Justin_- | because there is no compiler, no way to assert ahead of time that 'X' will even be defined, let alone with a type that is coherent with your statement | Jun 23 15:59 |
| Justin_- | so you have to just run your code and hope you notice if something isn't doing what it should | Jun 23 15:59 |
| MinceR | you could write unit tests though :) | Jun 23 16:00 |
| Justin_- | true | Jun 23 16:00 |
| MinceR | and check types | Jun 23 16:00 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Tax revenue stalled by tribunals and lack of staff 'in the billions' http://goo.gl/4Qh7m it's like they just noticed it was going on | Jun 23 16:00 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Tax revenue stalled by tribunals and lack of staff 'in the billions' | Business | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 135.75 KB | Jun 23 16:00 |
| Justin_- | it's just a personal preference | Jun 23 16:01 |
| MinceR | i understand | Jun 23 16:01 |
| MinceR | i'm more on the side of declaring types too | Jun 23 16:01 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] this was the football coach that the fans rallied to claim as "innocent" & "smeared" cause he was good for their team http://goo.gl/9f3wK | Jun 23 16:02 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jerry Sandusky found guilty of Penn State sexual abuse | World news | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 128.59 KB | Jun 23 16:02 |
| Justin_- | I can't exactly tell you why I don't like java, I just find myself having to work harder | Jun 23 16:03 |
| Justin_- | everything feels fussier, more typing, more hoops to jump through to get things done | Jun 23 16:03 |
| Justin_- | and it seems to have a lot of classes I don't want | Jun 23 16:04 |
| MinceR | at least it's properly documented, unlike c# | Jun 23 16:04 |
| Justin_- | I thought the opposite was true, tell me more | Jun 23 16:05 |
| MinceR | i found the official documentation for c# sorely lacking, with the (badly named) "Remarks" section being empty or just missing what the class was meant to do | Jun 23 16:07 |
| MinceR | also, iirc in java there is a way to initialize a static const member of a non-primitive type | Jun 23 16:07 |
| MinceR | in c# i ended up making it non-static or non-constant, i can't remember which | Jun 23 16:07 |
| Justin_- | right I completely agree, sometimes the remarks sections are just bizarre, and C# is really fussy about class member initializations for some reason and it's so infuriating | Jun 23 16:08 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] I think I have been a good boy today and thus am entitled to a beer this evening. Which unfortunately means I will hav... http://b1t.it/bE70 | Jun 23 16:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - I think I have been a good boy today and thus am entitled… .::. Size~: 125.13 KB | Jun 23 16:09 |
| Justin_- | there's no good reason why I should have to write out a bunch of assignments in the constructor instead of inlining them in the class definition, I miss that from C++, it's not hard to organize it in the compiler | Jun 23 16:09 |
| Justin_- | it's ghetto | Jun 23 16:09 |
| Justin_- | it's bad practice too, it's just unclean, splits up the definition of members so you have to poke around to get the whole picture, which kind of conflicts with the goals of c#, it's bizarre | Jun 23 16:10 |
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| Justin_- | D definitely looks interesting, thanks again | Jun 23 16:18 |
| MinceR | np | Jun 23 16:19 |
| oiaohm | Just wondering have you every played with vala Justin_- | Jun 23 16:19 |
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| Justin_- | I think I remember hearing the name but that's about it lol | Jun 23 16:20 |
| Justin_- | vala looks really interesting | Jun 23 16:21 |
| oiaohm | https://live.gnome.org/Vala/ | Jun 23 16:21 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Vala - GNOME Live! .::. Size~: 11.82 KB | Jun 23 16:21 |
| Justin_- | it has pointers and reference counting though | Jun 23 16:21 |
| Justin_- | and it seems to be gnome specific | Jun 23 16:22 |
| MinceR | what's wrong with reference counting? | Jun 23 16:22 |
| MinceR | it's not gnome-specific | Jun 23 16:22 |
| Justin_- | A.p = B; B.p = A; <- leak? | Jun 23 16:22 |
| MinceR | it uses C and GObject | Jun 23 16:22 |
| Justin_- | isn't gobject part of gnome? | Jun 23 16:23 |
| MinceR | not sure, reference-counting systems tend to include ways of handling that | Jun 23 16:23 |
| MinceR | no, GObject is part of GTK+ | Jun 23 16:23 |
| Justin_- | oh sorry | Jun 23 16:23 |
| MinceR | oops | Jun 23 16:23 |
| MinceR | more like part of glib | Jun 23 16:23 |
| MinceR | GTK+ does use glib though :) | Jun 23 16:23 |
| Justin_- | gtk = gnome toolkit, glib = gnome lib? | Jun 23 16:23 |
| MinceR | no | Jun 23 16:23 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: just in time I was about to pounce on you for that one. | Jun 23 16:23 |
| MinceR | GTK+ was originally named after Gimp | Jun 23 16:23 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: gtk and glib both predate gnome existance. | Jun 23 16:23 |
| Justin_- | oh I see hm, I thought it was gnome sorry | Jun 23 16:23 |
| MinceR | not sure what glib was named after, but i'm pretty sure both GTK+ and glib predate gnome | Jun 23 16:23 |
| MinceR | many people believe that :> | Jun 23 16:24 |
| oiaohm | Both g in gtk and glib stand for graphics | Jun 23 16:24 |
| oiaohm | Yes both part of gimp development. | Jun 23 16:24 |
| Justin_- | personally I'm not so fond of the 2 language approach, python etc where the exposed language has practical limitations and depends on another language, usually C | Jun 23 16:26 |
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| MinceR | there's no "one language to rule them all", though :> | Jun 23 16:27 |
| Justin_- | I'm not advocating c# as superior to every other possibility, it has a lot of drawbacks and something better will come along if it hasn't already | Jun 23 16:27 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: really for a person like me there are a lot of other solutions to c# including lua | Jun 23 16:28 |
| oiaohm | lua natively can call out to c and c++ libraries. | Jun 23 16:28 |
| Justin_- | right that's what I'm saying I don't want, a language that depends on code written in other languages, and that always will due to design limitations | Jun 23 16:29 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: c# cannot work without code written in other languages. | Jun 23 16:30 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: just as much as lua | Jun 23 16:30 |
| Justin_- | why? | Jun 23 16:30 |
| oiaohm | lua is the smallest jit in existance so small it fits in the cpu l1 cache. | Jun 23 16:31 |
| oiaohm | So can be as fast as native code for real. | Jun 23 16:31 |
| oiaohm | In fact at times faster. | Jun 23 16:31 |
| oiaohm | Yes this is why lua is used in some games for game logic | Jun 23 16:32 |
| MinceR | Justin_-: because those languages need a VM of some kind, which can't run on itself | Jun 23 16:32 |
| oiaohm | its faster to use lua than native code. | Jun 23 16:32 |
| MinceR | in the end, you'll need a language to write part (or whole) of the OS in that doesn't need much runtime support, like C | Jun 23 16:32 |
| Justin_- | c# doesn't run in a virtual machine, it's compiled into native machine code and excuted | Jun 23 16:33 |
| MinceR | even then, kernel code won't have access to most of the standard library | Jun 23 16:33 |
| MinceR | afaik that native code still needs runtime support | Jun 23 16:33 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: you did not jsut get it. | Jun 23 16:33 |
| oiaohm | lua is that small that it acts like you are using a compressed binary. | Jun 23 16:33 |
| Justin_- | you can write a bytecode to machine code translator in almost any language, it's simple logic and math | Jun 23 16:33 |
| MinceR | many languages are compiled to native code in runtime | Jun 23 16:33 |
| oiaohm | So cpu can hold more executable code in its cache. | Jun 23 16:34 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: I understand, that sounds like a real advantage for performance in a lot of cases | Jun 23 16:34 |
| MinceR | yes, but that translator isn't going to write the code that manages your memory and objects | Jun 23 16:34 |
| MinceR | let alone lower level code like interfacing with the hardware and task scheduling | Jun 23 16:34 |
| Justin_- | microsoft has a gc written in c#, I had an email conversation about a year ago with someone at there about it | Jun 23 16:35 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: then being able to reach back to c and c++ libraries for stuff that is not good for lua makes lua very had to beat. | Jun 23 16:35 |
| Justin_- | they're working on a 100% c# kernel, completely self hosted | Jun 23 16:35 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: I have seen there c# kernel. | Jun 23 16:35 |
| Justin_- | the initial bootstapping machine code being emitted by the jit on another machine | Jun 23 16:35 |
| MinceR | for how long have they been "working" on it? | Jun 23 16:35 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: it is a failure. | Jun 23 16:35 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: microsoft has given up on it. | Jun 23 16:36 |
| Justin_- | they had a working version years ago, bootable | Jun 23 16:36 |
| Justin_- | I think the project started maybe 5 years ago, I could be wrong | Jun 23 16:36 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Yes but it still was a failure. | Jun 23 16:36 |
| oiaohm | Issue is c# operation does not match how hardware operates. | Jun 23 16:36 |
| Justin_- | I don't know about that either way but the concept wasn't a failure, they were able to design a basic self hosted c# kernel, boot it, interface with hardware, and dynamically execute programs written in c# | Jun 23 16:37 |
| oiaohm | Its like all the attempts to make a pure java OS | Jun 23 16:37 |
| Justin_- | right sun has a pure java os that never went anywhere | Jun 23 16:37 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: there are many of them. | Jun 23 16:37 |
| oiaohm | There are about 4 pure java OS's. | Jun 23 16:37 |
| Justin_- | nice | Jun 23 16:38 |
| oiaohm | There are about 2 .net based ones. | Jun 23 16:38 |
| oiaohm | All run into the same basic problem. | Jun 23 16:38 |
| Justin_- | what's that? | Jun 23 16:38 |
| oiaohm | Hardware was designed around how C does stuff. | Jun 23 16:38 |
| Justin_- | can you be more specific? | Jun 23 16:38 |
| oiaohm | Pointers | Jun 23 16:38 |
| oiaohm | Lots of. | Jun 23 16:39 |
| oiaohm | Including magic blocking of memory | Jun 23 16:39 |
| oiaohm | and complete disrespect for the idea of garbage collection. | Jun 23 16:39 |
| Justin_- | I mean as someone who's done a lot of kernel development and written a lot of x86 assembly including ring 0, can you give me specifics? | Jun 23 16:39 |
| Justin_- | what's magic blocking of memory? | Jun 23 16:40 |
| *Disconnected (). | Jun 23 16:57 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 23 16:57:32 2012 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 23 16:57:46 2012 | ||
| *Now talking on #techrights | Jun 23 16:57 | |
| *Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovell | Jun 23 16:57 | |
| *Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012 | Jun 23 16:57 | |
| *puppywatch (~PuppyWatc@host109-149-155-236.range109-149.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 16:57 | |
| Justin_- | I was reading some articles on techrights.org that were talking about c# and they linked to this to ask questions, so I did | Jun 23 16:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: lua or forth based OS would be more possible than java and .net | Jun 23 16:58 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: c# has no performance hit for accessing pointers, it emits the same machine code as C | Jun 23 16:58 |
| Justin_- | you can translate a C program directly into c# using unsafe syntax and compile the identical machine code | Jun 23 16:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: it does when you start trying to take the data back into c# oop | Jun 23 16:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: same with java oop | Jun 23 16:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: the oop of the language does not match what the hardware wants. | Jun 23 16:59 |
| Justin_- | I agree with that, as soon as you start using c# arrays you have bounds checking and that involves some extra instructions | Jun 23 16:59 |
| Justin_- | so there is some performance penalty there | Jun 23 16:59 |
| *pidgin_log (~roy@host109-149-155-236.range109-149.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 16:59 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: hardware returned array into a c#array to use oop between drivers how is that going to hurt. | Jun 23 16:59 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: C can avoid converting a lot. | Jun 23 17:00 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: it depends, there are a lot of possibilities, but the main cost would be bounds checking, an extra cmp instruction for each index into the array | Jun 23 17:00 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] Dear !identica !statusnet could we please have the "Could not subscribe to feed." #bug fixed? #atom #rss | Jun 23 17:00 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Linux kernel contains bounds checking. | Jun 23 17:01 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: its the means to alter how based on what the hardware gives you. | Jun 23 17:01 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: ie round peg square hole problem. | Jun 23 17:01 |
| cubezzz | we don't use C# because we don't trust microsoft | Jun 23 17:01 |
| cubezzz | end of story | Jun 23 17:01 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: and MS .net and the other .net attempt found that same with the java attempts. | Jun 23 17:02 |
| cubezzz | the philosophical argument trumps the technical ones | Jun 23 17:02 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: your theory doesn't have a technical basis that I can see | Jun 23 17:02 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: It does have a techical base. OOP structs you do wish to use. | Jun 23 17:02 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: those oop structs have to be compadible with what hardware will spit at you. | Jun 23 17:03 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: .net and java don't pass that. | Jun 23 17:03 |
| Justin_- | you could compile the entire linux kernel using a c# jit compiler | Jun 23 17:03 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: c++ has been got away with. | Jun 23 17:03 |
| Justin_- | by translating the linux source into c# with unsafe syntax | Jun 23 17:03 |
| Justin_- | and you'd produce the identical machine code | Jun 23 17:03 |
| Justin_- | language syntax isn't that complicated | Jun 23 17:04 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: most likely you would not produce identical machine code. | Jun 23 17:04 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: unless you made something completely insane to read. | Jun 23 17:04 |
| Justin_- | there are a lot of languages that all express the same simple logic with different sugar, like pascal and basic | Jun 23 17:04 |
| Justin_- | if you translate a C program into pascal, it generates the same machine code | Jun 23 17:04 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Jun 23 17:04 |
| cubezzz | pffft | Jun 23 17:05 |
| Justin_- | I'm on techrights.org/irc-channel/ | Jun 23 17:05 |
| oiaohm | you cannot get identical c code out of pascel in all cases. | Jun 23 17:05 |
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| oiaohm | There are somethings pascel flat out forbids. | Jun 23 17:05 |
| Justin_- | I don't know about all cases but the basic concept of pointer arithmetic compiles into the same machine code, it's not that complicated | Jun 23 17:05 |
| Justin_- | mov ebx, eax[12] etc | Jun 23 17:06 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: difference is C was not designed to forbid anything from the machine code levle. | Jun 23 17:06 |
| oiaohm | C# java pascel and basic all forbid doing particular things. | Jun 23 17:06 |
| Justin_- | actually ansi C disallows a lot of things that are common practice, like assigning a function pointer to a void* | Jun 23 17:06 |
| MinceR | 180447 < Justin_-> if you translate a C program into pascal, it generates the same machine code | Jun 23 17:06 |
| MinceR | most C programs can't be directly expressed in pascal | Jun 23 17:06 |
| cubezzz | I bet two different C compilers don't generate the exact same code either | Jun 23 17:07 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: sorry ansi C allows assigning a function to void * by cast. | Jun 23 17:07 |
| Justin_- | I'm not saying the entire program file will be bit for bit identical between two different languages or compilers, I mean that A+B will generate an "add" instruction, P[10] will generate "eax[10]" etc.. | Jun 23 17:07 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: its compliers that hate that. | Jun 23 17:08 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: that's not accurate, ansi C defines function and data pointers as separate, so that for example you can have a machine where a function pointer is an index into a static array of functions, and a data pointer is a pointer into a memory bus | Jun 23 17:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Reshared post from Nicole van Rossum http://ur1.ca/9jzbp | Jun 23 17:09 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Thank you :) .::. Size~: 135.56 KB | Jun 23 17:09 |
| Justin_- | or for example you can have function pointers that have added security or stability data for whatever reason | Jun 23 17:09 |
| Justin_- | like canary values or whatever | Jun 23 17:09 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: notes I said cast. | Jun 23 17:09 |
| oiaohm | (void *) to convert the function pointer to at data pointer. | Jun 23 17:10 |
| Justin_- | yes I'm saying ansi C says you can't cast them, any more than (char)2181 is necessarily valid (2181 being > 127) | Jun 23 17:10 |
| oiaohm | It is allowed. | Jun 23 17:10 |
| Justin_- | by your compiler maybe | Jun 23 17:10 |
| Justin_- | not by the standard | Jun 23 17:10 |
| oiaohm | No I have read the standard. | Jun 23 17:10 |
| oiaohm | Its not forbin. | Jun 23 17:10 |
| Justin_- | maybe we read different documents | Jun 23 17:10 |
| oiaohm | A function pointer is an address. | Jun 23 17:11 |
| Justin_- | that's an implementation detail | Jun 23 17:11 |
| oiaohm | You are allowed to extract that address to void* | Jun 23 17:11 |
| Justin_- | you are allowed to access the bytes of a function pointer | Jun 23 17:11 |
| oiaohm | Now to use it as a function again you have to conver tit back. | Jun 23 17:11 |
| Justin_- | but for example, a machine where function pointers are 6 bytes and data pointers are 4 bytes is valid under ansi C | Jun 23 17:11 |
| oiaohm | And what lenth is a void * | Jun 23 17:12 |
| Justin_- | like sizeof(void (*)(void)) > sizeof(void*) is valid under ansi C | Jun 23 17:12 |
| oiaohm | Evil point | Jun 23 17:12 |
| cubezzz | C# is an imitation of java, so they say | Jun 23 17:12 |
| Justin_- | I agree, it is | Jun 23 17:12 |
| oiaohm | Techically sizeof(void*) is invalid. | Jun 23 17:12 |
| MinceR | c# is a bad clone of java :> | Jun 23 17:13 |
| cubezzz | what I don't understand is why anyone would want to use C# | Jun 23 17:13 |
| Justin_- | I don't like everything in .net but I honestly prefer c# syntax to java, and I prefer the bytecode system | Jun 23 17:13 |
| cubezzz | you can use bytecode without using C# | Jun 23 17:14 |
| cubezzz | make your own bytecode | Jun 23 17:14 |
| oiaohm | Really the bytecode in .net is 32 and 64 bit picky. | Jun 23 17:14 |
| oiaohm | Its not that great. | Jun 23 17:14 |
| Justin_- | right I mean I prefer c# to the java language, and I prefer .net il to java bytecode | Jun 23 17:14 |
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| oiaohm | Justin_-: java bytecode is stable. | Jun 23 17:14 |
| cubezzz | Microsoft could use patents to hurt people using free versions of C# | Jun 23 17:15 |
| Justin_- | I don't think there's a stability issue with either | Jun 23 17:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: same with lua | Jun 23 17:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: O yes there is. | Jun 23 17:15 |
| MinceR | so, what's the difference between c# syntax and java? :> | Jun 23 17:15 |
| MinceR | a few keywords that differ? | Jun 23 17:15 |
| cubezzz | I'm not a big java fan either, but it's tolerable I guess | Jun 23 17:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: il allowed address pointers along it to be code it. | Jun 23 17:15 |
| iophk | The apps I've seen in C# have been bloated and unstable. | Jun 23 17:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: 32 bit and 64 bit | Jun 23 17:15 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: arch sentitive. | Jun 23 17:15 |
| Justin_- | cubezzz: afaik that's not true about the c# programming language or il, they're both standardized, explicitly released, and also just a collection of unoriginal ideas | Jun 23 17:15 |
| Justin_- | but yes parts of .net are a problem | Jun 23 17:16 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: really MS does not offically release a il to native code complier. | Jun 23 17:17 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: jit sux unless they are small enough to fit in cpu l1 | Jun 23 17:17 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: c# has a lot of extra features | Jun 23 17:17 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: do you know why. | Jun 23 17:17 |
| Justin_- | lambda expressions, object initializations, ref and out keywords, etc | Jun 23 17:17 |
| Justin_- | linq | Jun 23 17:17 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: convert byte code to native code in ram | Jun 23 17:17 |
| cubezzz | Microsoft just wants to take over everything | Jun 23 17:17 |
| oiaohm | ends up with blocks of memory that must end up in swap. | Jun 23 17:18 |
| Justin_- | cubezzz: I agree | Jun 23 17:18 |
| cubezzz | C# is just another example | Jun 23 17:18 |
| MinceR | i thought java had lambda expressions | Jun 23 17:18 |
| Justin_- | but the c# language syntax is a standard, it's not an issue legally | Jun 23 17:18 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: swap is your slowest ram anything that results in anything extra ending up there is bad. | Jun 23 17:18 |
| MinceR | i thought linq as a library feature | Jun 23 17:18 |
| MinceR | dunno what the others are | Jun 23 17:18 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: there is a issue | Jun 23 17:18 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: the .net bytecode in the standard is non functional. | Jun 23 17:18 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: does not work in MS .net engines | Jun 23 17:19 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: properly. | Jun 23 17:19 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: linq is language level, ref is like void set1(ref int N) { N = 1; } and it modifies a variable of the caller | Jun 23 17:19 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: if standard was correct ms patent promise would be valid. | Jun 23 17:19 |
| MinceR | so it's passing by reference | Jun 23 17:19 |
| Justin_- | yep | Jun 23 17:19 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: but since MS .net does not match standard patent promise is not worth anything. | Jun 23 17:20 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: as far as I know the il format in the standard is used | Jun 23 17:20 |
| cubezzz | next thing will be microsoft bios... | Jun 23 17:20 |
| Justin_- | if it wasn't, mono wouldn't be able to run .net programs | Jun 23 17:20 |
| cubezzz | i'm sure they're working on it :-/ | Jun 23 17:20 |
| Justin_- | cubezzz: I'm surprised it hasn't been done | Jun 23 17:20 |
| Justin_- | writing a bios isn't that complex | Jun 23 17:21 |
| cubezzz | it's not easy! | Jun 23 17:21 |
| cubezzz | try it sometime | Jun 23 17:21 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: in fact no. | Jun 23 17:21 |
| cubezzz | a lot of chips are under NDA | Jun 23 17:21 |
| Justin_- | I played around with the cromwell source a bit | Jun 23 17:21 |
| MinceR | afaik java effectively passes objects by reference | Jun 23 17:21 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: mono.net contains many documented hacks where they have had to leave il format standard. | Jun 23 17:21 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: so MS.net programs work. | Jun 23 17:22 |
| MinceR | (passes the reference itself by value, which is the same thing) | Jun 23 17:22 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Reshared post from Carsten Knobloch http://ur1.ca/9jzcr | Jun 23 17:22 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ .::. Size~: 132.45 KB | Jun 23 17:22 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: ref and out apply to primitives and references themselves | Jun 23 17:22 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: reason why .net programs are not very good in mono.net does trace to some points MS.net leaves standard. | Jun 23 17:23 |
| Justin_- | like int n = 1; set1(ref n); | Jun 23 17:23 |
| Justin_- | or I guess I should say int n = 2; | Jun 23 17:23 |
| MinceR | in java, you could box that int in an Integer and then it's an object | Jun 23 17:23 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: right, there are workarounds | Jun 23 17:23 |
| MinceR | yes, for example, my workaround for c# being an unusable, undocumented patent trap is using java instead :> | Jun 23 17:24 |
| cubezzz | no one advocates APL? :) | Jun 23 17:24 |
| MinceR | not me | Jun 23 17:24 |
| Justin_- | I don't know about it being unstable, I don't know of any case where syntax from a previous version was broken in a future version | Jun 23 17:24 |
| MinceR | i said "unusable", not "unstable" | Jun 23 17:25 |
| Justin_- | oh sorry | Jun 23 17:25 |
| MinceR | though it might as well be that too | Jun 23 17:25 |
| MinceR | (especially when it's layered on top of windows :> ) | Jun 23 17:25 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Even between .net versions they are not syntax compadible. | Jun 23 17:25 |
| Justin_- | I find it pretty usable, I could restrict myself to java syntax and write almost identical code in c#, I just like the dozens of extra features in c# | Jun 23 17:25 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Links 23/6/2012: Wine 1.5.7 released, Apple Racism http://ur1.ca/9jzdm #techrights | Jun 23 17:25 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Links 23/6/2012: Wine 1.5.7 released, Apple Racism | Techrights .::. Size~: 118.25 KB | Jun 23 17:25 |
| MinceR | oh, forgot "non-portable" | Jun 23 17:25 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: this is known with MS.net yes programs require particular versions of .net to work. | Jun 23 17:25 |
| MinceR | and i absolutely hate Windows.Forms, it was obsolete when they first thought of it | Jun 23 17:26 |
| cubezzz | MinceR, I can write APL programs for many different platforms | Jun 23 17:26 |
| Justin_- | c# is basically a superset of java, you can choose not to use features you don't like | Jun 23 17:26 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: .net is not mature yet. | Jun 23 17:26 |
| Justin_- | I agree | Jun 23 17:26 |
| Justin_- | windows forms were crap | Jun 23 17:26 |
| MinceR | they're of course even more obsolete now | Jun 23 17:26 |
| Justin_- | and wpf is amazing but it's definitely patent encumbered | Jun 23 17:26 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: there are other languages you can use with java JVM;s | Jun 23 17:26 |
| cubezzz | MinceR, what languages do you use besides java and c? | Jun 23 17:26 |
| cubezzz | just curious | Jun 23 17:27 |
| MinceR | does wpf do widget layouting already or is it still just "let's just throw these widgets on this canvas somewhere randomly"? | Jun 23 17:27 |
| MinceR | cubezzz: c++, python, bash, csh (though i don't like that), tcl (though that i like even less) | Jun 23 17:27 |
| MinceR | awk | Jun 23 17:27 |
| MinceR | perl | Jun 23 17:27 |
| Justin_- | there are a lot of options for layout in wpf, you can choose the layout engine you want or plug in your own | Jun 23 17:27 |
| MinceR | (thankfully) very rarely php | Jun 23 17:27 |
| Justin_- | wpf works a lot like html and css, it's based on a markup system called xaml, based on xml | Jun 23 17:27 |
| MinceR | Justin_-: i mean, can you arrange your widgets in stacked HBoxes/VBoxes and have WPF automatically set their size and position properly? | Jun 23 17:28 |
| cubezzz | APL is interesting though | Jun 23 17:28 |
| MinceR | oh, so it's an HTML GUI toolkit? | Jun 23 17:28 |
| cubezzz | I know I'm like the only one here that uses it | Jun 23 17:28 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: yes, there are built-in features for that and you can also implement it yourself if you want more control | Jun 23 17:28 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: it's similar yes | Jun 23 17:28 |
| MinceR | i don't feel much enthusiasm for that idea | Jun 23 17:28 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: have you worked with qt | Jun 23 17:28 |
| MinceR | if i was building webapps, that would be different, of course... | Jun 23 17:29 |
| Justin_- | well no it's not based on html and css, which are a disgusting mess | Jun 23 17:29 |
| Justin_- | in my opinion | Jun 23 17:29 |
| Justin_- | but the concept is similar in some ways | Jun 23 17:29 |
| MinceR | html and css seem fine for webapp development | Jun 23 17:29 |
| cubezzz | kind of hard to avoid html | Jun 23 17:29 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: you mind then understand why with a qt background I don't see wpf as fun. | Jun 23 17:29 |
| MinceR | not so much for plain hypertext | Jun 23 17:29 |
| Justin_- | you write a document in xml, define objects, and provide code-behind as properties within those objects, then the code is executed on .net | Jun 23 17:30 |
| cubezzz | anyone use motif? :) | Jun 23 17:30 |
| MinceR | i actually do use some a bit of motif at work | Jun 23 17:30 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: have you or have not used qt | Jun 23 17:30 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: a little bit | Jun 23 17:30 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: I love qt for the fact its write once use many. | Jun 23 17:30 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: have you use qml script in qt | Jun 23 17:30 |
| Justin_- | no | Jun 23 17:30 |
| cubezzz | oiaohm, you writing KDE programs? | Jun 23 17:31 |
| oiaohm | cubezzz: no mine just depend on qt | Jun 23 17:31 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qml is a mix of layout and javascript | Jun 23 17:32 |
| Justin_- | oh | Jun 23 17:32 |
| Justin_- | most gui toolkits developed in the last 10 years are like this | Jun 23 17:32 |
| Justin_- | mvc, model view controller | Jun 23 17:32 |
| Justin_- | with the gui laid out independently of code | Jun 23 17:32 |
| oiaohm | qml is a different beast. | Jun 23 17:33 |
| Justin_- | and in a format that allows gui elements to be organized in different ways depending on the display or other factors | Jun 23 17:33 |
| oiaohm | Where you can write the complete program in it. | Jun 23 17:33 |
| Justin_- | oh | Jun 23 17:33 |
| oiaohm | Or you can use it to dymamically change the interface on the fly. | Jun 23 17:33 |
| oiaohm | Yes you write interface animations in qml with qt | Jun 23 17:33 |
| Justin_- | are there animation features or do you have to write code to do an animation? | Jun 23 17:34 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: animation features are provided | Jun 23 17:34 |
| Justin_- | like wpf has vectors and timelines, someone who can't program can make a gui with animations | Jun 23 17:34 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: and you can join them up how ever you like. | Jun 23 17:34 |
| Justin_- | similar to flash | Jun 23 17:34 |
| Justin_- | nice | Jun 23 17:34 |
| oiaohm | You can do insane things in the javascript like reorder the complete interface on the fly. | Jun 23 17:35 |
| MinceR | not the best pitches i've ever seen... "someone who can't program can make a gui", "similar to flash" ;) | Jun 23 17:35 |
| oiaohm | Like have button float around screen changing order. | Jun 23 17:36 |
| Justin_- | I mean vectors and timelines are basically flash features | Jun 23 17:36 |
| cubezzz | flash seems like a control mechanism on the user | Jun 23 17:36 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: note I said dyanmic. | Jun 23 17:36 |
| MinceR | i don't think flash invented vector graphics :> | Jun 23 17:36 |
| Justin_- | you define a vector, move ahead in time, redefine it, and then the engine morphs the vector from the first version to the second | Jun 23 17:36 |
| oiaohm | vectors and times lines are a static constracts. | Jun 23 17:36 |
| Justin_- | no I agree it didn't | Jun 23 17:36 |
| Justin_- | but wpf is very flash-esque in terms of its vector and animation support | Jun 23 17:36 |
| oiaohm | Very limititing. | Jun 23 17:37 |
| oiaohm | qt I can go 3d if I wish. | Jun 23 17:37 |
| cubezzz | ugh, that's another microsoft technology isn't it? | Jun 23 17:37 |
| cubezzz | wpf | Jun 23 17:37 |
| oiaohm | Like drawing windows straight on opengl textures. | Jun 23 17:37 |
| Justin_- | I don't see any obvious room for improvement in wpf's vector implementation, it seems like intelligent people sat down and carefully thought about how it should look | Jun 23 17:37 |
| cubezzz | you will be absorbed :) | Jun 23 17:37 |
| Justin_- | and about non-programmers designing guis, personally I think that separation is a good thing | Jun 23 17:38 |
| MinceR | wpf, more like wtf | Jun 23 17:38 |
| MinceR | :> | Jun 23 17:38 |
| Justin_- | I mean the gui elements should be programmatically accessible, just not programmatically based | Jun 23 17:38 |
| cubezzz | I'll design my own gui's thanks | Jun 23 17:38 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qml idea is simple. | Jun 23 17:38 |
| oiaohm | Non-programmers can go simple. | Jun 23 17:38 |
| Justin_- | nice, do it | Jun 23 17:38 |
| MinceR | i prefer guis designed by programmers | Jun 23 17:38 |
| MinceR | they tend to be functional :> | Jun 23 17:39 |
| oiaohm | But with a little programming skill gui coders can do a lot. | Jun 23 17:39 |
| oiaohm | yet qml can be indepentant to the back end coders. | Jun 23 17:39 |
| cubezzz | I like VM/SP's ideas too | Jun 23 17:39 |
| cubezzz | all textual | Jun 23 17:39 |
| oiaohm | Basically qt split the graphical coders from the back end coders. | Jun 23 17:39 |
| Justin_- | you can do var C = new Canvas() { Width = 800, Height = 600 }; var B = new Button() { Left = 100 , Top = 50 , Text = "hi" , OnClick = () => { MessageBox("hi") } }; C.Children.Add(B); etc | Jun 23 17:39 |
| Justin_- | if you want to party like it's 1995 | Jun 23 17:40 |
| oiaohm | How would you connect an animanate to the button. | Jun 23 17:40 |
| Justin_- | I'm not sure how to build a timeline with code, I've never done it | Jun 23 17:40 |
| cubezzz | Justin_-, seems all you know is microsoft stuff | Jun 23 17:40 |
| cubezzz | you're stuck in there | Jun 23 17:40 |
| Justin_- | I used linux for years and years, I'm very comfortable with posix and the linux kernel | Jun 23 17:41 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qt.nokia.com/qtquick/ | Jun 23 17:41 |
| Justin_- | I never got into linux gui development though | Jun 23 17:41 |
| cubezzz | Justin_-, so which distros did you use? | Jun 23 17:41 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML | Jun 23 17:41 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: QML - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 51.42 KB | Jun 23 17:41 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qt is not for Linux | Jun 23 17:42 |
| Justin_- | I started with slackware and then switched to fedora, I used suse and ubuntu a bit but it was mainly fedora | Jun 23 17:42 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: it for every platform. | Jun 23 17:42 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Yes I can export my qt program stragiht to android or os x | Jun 23 17:42 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: I know, qt is great | Jun 23 17:42 |
| Justin_- | it's well designed, modern | Jun 23 17:42 |
| Justin_- | object based | Jun 23 17:42 |
| Justin_- | every gui element is an extensible object | Jun 23 17:42 |
| Justin_- | and yep it's pretty multi platform | Jun 23 17:43 |
| Justin_- | I haven't used it much and I don't know that much about it but I'm not criticizing it in any way | Jun 23 17:43 |
| MinceR | GTK+ is also great | Jun 23 17:43 |
| cubezzz | you can't use that stuff on z/OS | Jun 23 17:43 |
| cubezzz | just sayin' | Jun 23 17:43 |
| MinceR | can't you run GNU/Linux on z/OS? | Jun 23 17:44 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] It's radiohead time. House of cards. One of the best songs ever. | Jun 23 17:44 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: really look at the wiki qml for quick done up animation in qt | Jun 23 17:44 |
| cubezzz | z/OS is the OS though | Jun 23 17:44 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: wpf just make life way to hard to make something nice. | Jun 23 17:44 |
| cubezzz | you can run Linux on IBM mainframes of course yes | Jun 23 17:44 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: I believe you, I wasn't saying wpf is superior to everything else, I just said I think it's great too, and that I think html and css are garbage | Jun 23 17:44 |
| cubezzz | what's wrong with html? | Jun 23 17:45 |
| cubezzz | we don't want microsoft stuff | Jun 23 17:45 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: gtk + vala is also very nice | Jun 23 17:45 |
| cubezzz | doesn't anyone get that by now? :) | Jun 23 17:45 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: yes vala nicely objected foced. gtk in C its painful. | Jun 23 17:45 |
| Justin_- | personally I don't like style syntax, I don't like the basic concepts of css rendering like there's a lot of awkward and ambiguity, a lot of things are missing and pieced together from draft standards | Jun 23 17:46 |
| cubezzz | I don't use css myself | Jun 23 17:46 |
| cubezzz | might have used it once | Jun 23 17:46 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: I agree, I've looked at gtk in C and it seemed kind of silly, same with cocoa in objective C | Jun 23 17:47 |
| Justin_- | they're all fine though I wasn't really advocating anything, I don't use wpf | Jun 23 17:47 |
| MinceR | i thought css had a pretty clean syntax | Jun 23 17:47 |
| Justin_- | I do use c# but it's just a preference, java is fine, other languages are fine if you don't mind certain issues | Jun 23 17:48 |
| Justin_- | MinceR: personally I think style="x:y" is kludgy | Jun 23 17:48 |
| Justin_- | it's not part of the primary markup | Jun 23 17:48 |
| Justin_- | it's like sending messages to another module | Jun 23 17:48 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: http://qt.nokia.com/qtquick/ look at the bottom one here. Open up photoshop draw up interface and use qml to turn it into a real working interface. | Jun 23 17:48 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Qt Quick - including QML, Qt Creator and the Qt Quick UI runtime .::. Size~: 17.2 KB | Jun 23 17:48 |
| Justin_- | in another format | Jun 23 17:48 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: I just find wpf design and ideas limiting. | Jun 23 17:49 |
| Justin_- | as if you'd say stylecode="this.x=100; for (int whatever; .. " | Jun 23 17:49 |
| MinceR | Justin_-: write it in the CSS file, then :) | Jun 23 17:49 |
| Justin_- | it's still the same, binary blob esque | Jun 23 17:49 |
| oiaohm | CSS has its place for sharing common formating in style. | Jun 23 17:49 |
| MinceR | i don't see what's binary about plain text | Jun 23 17:49 |
| Justin_- | text blob | Jun 23 17:50 |
| Justin_- | oiaohm: what would you change about wpf? | Jun 23 17:50 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: after using qml basically all of it. | Jun 23 17:51 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: its idea is just wrong. | Jun 23 17:51 |
| Justin_- | wrong in what way? | Jun 23 17:51 |
| Justin_- | I mean seriously enlighten me, I don't think wpf is the ultimate gui system | Jun 23 17:52 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: qml I have the freedom to do the interface any way I choose. | Jun 23 17:52 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: and I do mean any way I choose. | Jun 23 17:52 |
| Justin_- | what do you mean by that? | Jun 23 17:52 |
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| oiaohm | Justin_-: Just look at the bottom video on http://qt.nokia.com/qtquick/ doing photoshop to interface. | Jun 23 17:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Qt Quick - including QML, Qt Creator and the Qt Quick UI runtime .::. Size~: 17.2 KB | Jun 23 17:53 |
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| oiaohm | Justin_-: then remember I can do 3d interface effect changes if I wish. | Jun 23 17:53 |
| Justin_- | ok | Jun 23 17:53 |
| Justin_- | the bottom video, I only see a main video at the top | Jun 23 17:54 |
| oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py_eUAQS1UY This is 3d world mucking around from 2008 its a lot better today. | Jun 23 17:55 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Wolfenstein Qt. Qt widgets in a 3D environment - YouTube .::. Size~: 122.02 KB | Jun 23 17:55 |
| Justin_- | that's neat, qt looks great | Jun 23 17:56 |
| Justin_- | wpf has 3d features too | Jun 23 17:56 |
| oiaohm | www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BRJ1qJkjZM | Jun 23 17:56 |
| Justin_- | you can do the same thing, place gui elements in 3d | Jun 23 17:56 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: notice the point of the code controling the char being edited while the program is running. | Jun 23 17:57 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: you can do that with qt interfaces. | Jun 23 17:57 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: wpf is far more static in design. | Jun 23 17:58 |
| Justin_- | you mean in the first or second video? | Jun 23 17:58 |
| *roy is now known as schestowitz | Jun 23 17:58 | |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: in the first video. | Jun 23 17:58 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: how the person edits the speed the wolfenstein char moves. | Jun 23 17:59 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: then remember you can do the same thing to qml scripting. | Jun 23 17:59 |
| Justin_- | let me watch the rest of it | Jun 23 18:00 |
| Justin_- | with sound muted | Jun 23 18:00 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: the sound is coming from the video playing in the app. | Jun 23 18:01 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: that was not added music. | Jun 23 18:01 |
| Justin_- | halfway through | Jun 23 18:02 |
| Justin_- | it just seems to be a bunch of web browser controls and some basic gui widgets with 3d properties | Jun 23 18:02 |
| Justin_- | I mean it's neat but wpf does have the same capabilities | Jun 23 18:03 |
| Justin_- | I think javascript probably does at this point too, with webgl | Jun 23 18:03 |
| oiaohm | To change scripting of the interface on fly. | Jun 23 18:03 |
| oiaohm | Even the layout | Jun 23 18:03 |
| oiaohm | Without having to rebuild program. | Jun 23 18:04 |
| oiaohm | Yes the fun of qt for development stage. | Jun 23 18:04 |
| Justin_- | that's not a big deal | Jun 23 18:04 |
| oiaohm | I like that. | Jun 23 18:05 |
| Justin_- | I do too | Jun 23 18:05 |
| Justin_- | qt is definitely a well designed, modern platform | Jun 23 18:05 |
| oiaohm | qml can also be used to check inputs. | Jun 23 18:05 |
| oiaohm | In case of deeper coding errors. | Jun 23 18:05 |
| oiaohm | Yes it useful having this means to push a patch in at the interface level. | Jun 23 18:06 |
| oiaohm | Justin_-: Note the change on fly stuff was 2008. what qt today can do is a lot more than the first video showed. | Jun 23 18:10 |
| Justin_- | I believe you | Jun 23 18:11 |
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| cubezzz | I should have said z/VM not z/OS] | Jun 23 18:33 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @rysiek @jacobwb let me help you with that ;) http://ur1.ca/9ib7j /cc @lnxwalt140 | Jun 23 18:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting text/plain; charset=utf-8 type | Jun 23 18:49 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Reshared post from Mike Searle http://ur1.ca/9jzoz | Jun 23 18:54 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Droid For Sale Times have gotten tight for all of us. For… .::. Size~: 164.92 KB | Jun 23 18:54 |
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| cubezzz | schestowitz, did you know Multics got open sourced? | Jun 23 19:01 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Should I ever have a cat, I will call it Johnny Bravo. Because. | Jun 23 19:04 | |
| schestowitz | yeah | Jun 23 19:09 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: in a few days I'll need to get your logs of this channel... via web... cause BT is having a problem with their exchange.. I keep on an unreliable connection | Jun 23 19:10 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, oh ok | Jun 23 19:10 |
| cubezzz | it's still at the same URL | Jun 23 19:10 |
| schestowitz | Over the weekend or next weekend I'll upload and publish tons of my code | Jun 23 19:11 |
| schestowitz | 1.5 years worth.. tens of thousands of lines | Jun 23 19:11 |
| schestowitz | so been mostly busy with that, tidying it all up | Jun 23 19:11 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] While trying to blog more on !copyright to stave off !C11, took a wee break for a bit of personal philosophy http://www.ur1.ca/9jzr4 #more | Jun 23 19:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: What’s Wrong with ’5 Simple Rules For Happiness’ ? « Laurel L. Russwurm .::. Size~: 80.09 KB | Jun 23 19:14 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] RT @ryanweal wearing my accounts receivable hat. Please pay up folks! If you have an invoice from me, that is. I also accept free money. | Jun 23 19:15 | |
| *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@unaffiliated/daemonfc) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 19:16 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] .@F_Leist "Governance by Shitstorm"? Great name. I'm stealing it from you. :) Also, any English link? | Jun 23 19:24 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path - http://bit.ly/MFMQ2R also why #apple is the new #evil (v @laurenweinstein) | Jun 23 19:27 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 67.7 KB | Jun 23 19:27 |
| *Justin_- has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | Jun 23 19:30 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] RT @glynmoody Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path - http://bit.ly/MFMQ2R also why #apple is the new #evil (v @ ... | Jun 23 19:30 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 67.63 KB | Jun 23 19:30 |
| cubezzz | I can fix most of my computers | Jun 23 19:31 |
| cubezzz | this is an old Dell I'm on | Jun 23 19:31 |
| cubezzz | GX110 | Jun 23 19:31 |
| schestowitz | the code is coming along well now.. | Jun 23 19:37 |
| schestowitz | It's something I only started doing about 15-20 hours (of work) ago. | Jun 23 19:37 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, what are you working on? | Jun 23 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/2nd-federal-lawsuit-filed-in-Indy-officer-s-crash-3657735.php | Jun 23 19:39 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: 2nd federal lawsuit filed in Indy officer's crash - SFGate .::. Size~: 81.07 KB | Jun 23 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | It'll disappear | Jun 23 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | the state will make it all go away | Jun 23 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | they'll put the cop on 30 days suspension with pay and that will be the end of it | Jun 23 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | that's how they always handle irresponsible police conduct | Jun 23 19:40 |
| schestowitz | I am well aware of the limitations and problems incurred by the distance and I intend to consider moving to the organiser in 2013. Recently, due to my relationship, I have had less time than before to spend thinking about research while not coding. But this changes now that I work on a project I am *very* passionate about and can make rapid progress on. | Jun 23 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Yesterday I found out about another startup forming to deal with car navigation-related Android apps. It seems to be a hot topic and the potential seems very real, not just from a research point of view but also from a commercial point of view (which the funder, ERC, has interest in). | Jun 23 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | does it have Microsoft's "Avoid poor people" technology? | Jun 23 19:43 |
| cubezzz | nice little othello program :) | Jun 23 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.jerrydoyle.com/fcc-crack-down-on-tv-and-radio | Jun 23 19:47 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: JD Vegas Cam: FCC Crack Down on TV and Radio - The Jerry Doyle Show .::. Size~: 27.77 KB | Jun 23 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | Independence Day! WOOHOO!!!! | Jun 23 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | where we celebrate our $15 trillion of foreign debt | Jun 23 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | the 2-3 nations that could destroy the US dollar if they really wanted to | Jun 23 19:48 |
| cubezzz | ah Kwin4 is connect 4, not othello | Jun 23 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | with Chinese-made fireworks that will kill and maim at least a few people and burn some houses down | Jun 23 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | and then assuming you actually got the day off (lucky!), back to work the next day | Jun 23 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | Indiana is getting ready to open that coal gas plant | Jun 23 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | we're apparently going to build a pipeline all the way to Mississippi and send all the liquid CO2 from the coal gasification process down there | Jun 23 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | where they will inject it into depleted oil wells to recover the last little bits of oil | Jun 23 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | and this counts as a clean energy carbon sequestration project | Jun 23 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | then they send out the gas as a synthetic natural gas and tell Indiana customers who are being billed more for it that, over the next 30 years they'll save money because the company had to guarantee those prices for that long | Jun 23 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | that's kind of nifty isn't it? | Jun 23 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | store billions and billions of tons of CO2 underground and hope it never escapes | Jun 23 19:55 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] The Sparks - Hospitality on parade. Pure. Genius. | Jun 23 20:04 | |
| *iophk (~foobar@unaffiliated/iophk) has left #techrights ("Konversation terminated!") | Jun 23 20:04 | |
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| DaemonFC | hmmm, the "Constitution Party" has ballot access in Indiana now | Jun 23 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | that might drain some voted from the Republicans | Jun 23 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | *votes | Jun 23 20:31 |
| MinceR | hmm... Constitution drain. | Jun 23 20:33 |
| formic_ | Cactus | Jun 23 20:35 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Viva Espana! :-) | Jun 23 20:39 | |
| MinceR | formic_: btw the "relative installs windows on your computer" thing is already solved by setting the boot drive order to HDD first and locking the BIOS down with a password :> | Jun 23 20:41 |
| formic_ | Until the bios battery is removed | Jun 23 20:41 |
| cubezzz | just secure the computer room | Jun 23 20:42 |
| formic_ | I'll be able to buy my parents an ubuntu uefi secured box and that's the only OS she can run | Jun 23 20:43 |
| MinceR | until she clears the setup password and turns off restricted boot | Jun 23 20:44 |
| cubezzz | this reminds me of the time computers had locks on them | Jun 23 20:44 |
| formic_ | So why is Microsoft such a big deal | Jun 23 20:45 |
| cubezzz | you could lock out the keyboard | Jun 23 20:45 |
| MinceR | it has been explained before | Jun 23 20:45 |
| formic_ | Users gotta go into the bios anyway to set the boot order | Jun 23 20:45 |
| MinceR | disabling restricted boot on machines where it's possible is no easier than setting the boot order | Jun 23 20:45 |
| formic_ | Oh no, one more switch to flip | Jun 23 20:45 |
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| sebsebseb | hi | Jun 23 20:46 |
| MinceR | hay | Jun 23 20:46 |
| cubezzz | hello | Jun 23 20:46 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Your Constitution is low. | Jun 23 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | Would you like to roll again? | Jun 23 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 20:47 |
| MinceR | i prefer Point Buy :) | Jun 23 20:47 |
| MinceR | or just all 18s before modifiers :> | Jun 23 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | "The party supports the repeal of the Sixteenth Amendment, which allows Congress to tax income" | Jun 23 20:48 |
| DaemonFC | gee what a coincidence | Jun 23 20:48 |
| DaemonFC | so do I | Jun 23 20:48 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] When I feel down, I put on Mad Dancing Matt and I feel better. Where the Hell is Matt? 2012 - this guy has so much po... http://b1t.it/bFaT | Jun 23 20:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - When I feel down, I put on Mad Dancing Matt and I feel… .::. Size~: 144.65 KB | Jun 23 20:49 |
| MinceR | do you wish to abolish the state or to fund it in a different way? | Jun 23 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Their presidential ticket gets about 200,000 votes | Jun 23 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | that's less than the United States Socialist Party | Jun 23 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | but the Libertarian Party typically gets between 500,000 and 800,000 | Jun 23 20:50 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Extreme downsizing | Jun 23 20:50 |
| formic_ | Income tax needs to be abolishing | Jun 23 20:50 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 20:50 |
| formic_ | Abolished | Jun 23 20:50 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[mrdenticator/@mrdenticator] Yesterday top #statustician is schestowitz from identi.ca with 83 dents! | Jun 23 20:50 | |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: we can start with all the federal departments that don't do what they say they do | Jun 23 20:50 |
| formic_ | Too many dumb people hold government jobs | Jun 23 20:50 |
| MinceR | so how would you fund the remaining parts? | Jun 23 20:51 |
| formic_ | You cut waste | Jun 23 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: tariffs, excise tax | Jun 23 20:51 |
| MinceR | why is that better than also having income tax? | Jun 23 20:51 |
| formic_ | You take everyone on welfare and draft them into the army and go to Iran | Jun 23 20:52 |
| MinceR | lol | Jun 23 20:52 |
| formic_ | Instant win | Jun 23 20:52 |
| DaemonFC | formic_: Nah, we do that with all the violent felons first | Jun 23 20:53 |
| DaemonFC | we just drop them off in Iran | Jun 23 20:53 |
| DaemonFC | give them some weapons | Jun 23 20:53 |
| DaemonFC | let things sort themselves out | Jun 23 20:53 |
| MinceR | what if they join the iranians? :> | Jun 23 20:53 |
| formic_ | You will either outnumber the Iranian army and win, or they all get killed and the economy recovers | Jun 23 20:53 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Is modern technology creating a culture of distraction? http://goo.gl/Mp1k6 | Jun 23 20:54 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Is modern technology creating a culture of distraction? — Tech News and Analysis .::. Size~: 81.52 KB | Jun 23 20:54 |
| formic_ | Win/win | Jun 23 20:54 |
| MinceR | so what if they join the enemy? | Jun 23 20:54 |
| *schestowitz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Jun 23 20:54 | |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Under my government, we will withdraw from the WTO, NAFTA, CAFTA, and a lot of other treaties | Jun 23 20:54 |
| formic_ | If they are on welfare they will integrate well | Jun 23 20:55 |
| formic_ | That's win3: forced emigration | Jun 23 20:55 |
| formic_ | Economy recovers | Jun 23 20:55 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] Not impressed? | Jun 23 20:55 | |
| formic_ | USA is just gonna nuke them anyway | Jun 23 20:56 |
| MinceR | :) | Jun 23 20:57 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] ♺ @sandersch: @thistleweb no, I don't think so.......wait what?....................free kick..........what was my point again?.............. | Jun 23 20:57 | |
| DaemonFC | we could level them without using nukes and without sending one soldier into harms way | Jun 23 20:58 |
| DaemonFC | Iran's military is not so great | Jun 23 20:58 |
| DaemonFC | in case you didn't notice, their navy consists of some speedboats | Jun 23 20:58 |
| DaemonFC | their army has things like old Soviet tanks | Jun 23 20:59 |
| DaemonFC | I think the best stuff their air force has are the fighter jets that they seized from Iraq when Iraq's pilots tried to flee to Iran during the 1991 Gulf War | Jun 23 21:00 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of them are....*giggles*, French | Jun 23 21:01 |
| DaemonFC | I say we do the Clinton Strategy | Jun 23 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | lob some cruise missiles at them and call it a day | Jun 23 21:02 |
| MinceR | use some Tom Cruise missiles | Jun 23 21:03 |
| DaemonFC | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J9KRZ0PnAs | Jun 23 21:04 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Tom Cruise Crazy - YouTube .::. Size~: 162.9 KB | Jun 23 21:04 |
| MinceR | yup | Jun 23 21:05 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: just jump up and down on a couch and proclaim your love of Xenu | Jun 23 21:08 |
| DaemonFC | it's therapeutic! | Jun 23 21:08 |
| MinceR | he hates Xenu | Jun 23 21:09 |
| DaemonFC | I know :) | Jun 23 21:09 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] !football fans who listen to podcasts could do a lot worse than #FootballWeekly http://goo.gl/xO97 & #TheFootballRamble http://goo.gl/qTwQS | Jun 23 21:15 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Guardian Football Weekly podcast | Football | The Guardian .::. Size~: 89.78 KB | Jun 23 21:15 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The Football Ramble show, blog and videos | The most entertaining voice in football | Premier League, La Liga, Serie A, MLS and more .::. Size~: 28.83 KB | Jun 23 21:15 |
| DaemonFC | damned low flow toilets | Jun 23 21:16 |
| DaemonFC | damn them to hell | Jun 23 21:16 |
| *DaemonFC campaigns for the senate on the platform of bringing back 3 GPF toilets | Jun 23 21:17 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[faither/@faither] Terrorists get tortured and exe-/prosecuted. "Terrorist-states" get bombed. What about the America? The confirmed cyber-terrorist-states. | Jun 23 21:17 | |
| MinceR | couldn't people just learn how to stop the flushing process? | Jun 23 21:18 |
| MinceR | it's easy with many toilets | Jun 23 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: How does it save water if you have to flush them 10 times? | Jun 23 21:19 |
| DaemonFC | everyone in this building, myself included, has to fight with the toilet to get it to flush | Jun 23 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | they clog about 5 times as often as the old toilets | Jun 23 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | so every day you hear noises in the pipes and you know it's someone fighting their toilet | Jun 23 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_flush_toilet | Jun 23 21:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Low flush toilet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.77 KB | Jun 23 21:24 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Mal schauen ob Bulb Fiction irgendwo in München läuft. BULB FICTION - Trailer Heatball | ab 16.9.2011 im Kino http:... http://b1t.it/bFa4 | Jun 23 21:24 | |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: These damned things | Jun 23 21:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Mal schauen ob Bulb Fiction irgendwo in München läuft. .::. Size~: 142.92 KB | Jun 23 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/94859619 | Jun 23 21:34 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @faither's status on Saturday, 23-Jun-12 20:16:02 UTC - Identi.ca: Terrorists get tortured and exe-/prosecuted. "Terrorist-states" get bombed. What about the America? The confirmed cyber-terrorist-states. | Jun 23 21:34 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Villariba liegt in Frankreich. Villabajo ist schon fertig mit Putzen, wie mir scheint. | Jun 23 21:34 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] RT @glynmoody Megaupload Founder Kim Dotcom Returns to Twitter, Promotes ‘Megabox’ - http://on.mash.to/LpGxVf seems to be more confident ... | Jun 23 21:35 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt140/@lnxwalt140] Okay, So the plan is to stop using the http://ur1.ca/56etj #XMPP account because too unreliable. Now using http://ur1.ca/9izcu | Jun 23 21:37 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jabber.org .::. Size~: 23.52 KB | Jun 23 21:37 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: comm.unicate.me - ...a free Jabber Instant Messaging provider... | - 12345comm.unicate.me .::. Size~: 19.09 KB | Jun 23 21:37 |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Dear +Google+ - why is it "Mute post" on the web but "Ignore post" on the mobile client? Oh, and when you're at it - ... http://b1t.it/bFbj | Jun 23 21:49 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Dear +Google+ - why is it "Mute post" on the web but… .::. Size~: 142.96 KB | Jun 23 21:49 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Cirvins on Monday with Thistleweb and one of the Mageia founders, who works on Pulseaudio upsteram as well it seems, and maybe soneone else on there to I don't know | Jun 23 21:51 |
| sebsebseb | and yep me on it | Jun 23 21:52 |
| *schestowitz has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Jun 23 21:52 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] 10" #Android 4.0 Tablet Under 100 Pounds on Sale in UK http://goo.gl/gB2gf #hardware #tablets | Jun 23 21:57 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Article: 10 Android 4 ... .::. Size~: 111.84 KB | Jun 23 21:57 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Olé Olé Olé Olé Olé? | Jun 23 21:59 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] #LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) HOWTO: Installing MySQL and Apache with PHP support on Linux http://goo.gl/8f0n #tips #gnulinux | Jun 23 22:07 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) HOWTO: Installing MySQL and Apache with PHP support on Linux .::. Size~: 34.41 KB | Jun 23 22:07 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Portable #Python http://goo.gl/ET4K #floss #programming | Jun 23 22:09 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Intel Releases Ivy Bridge Programming Docs Under CC License - Slashdot http://goo.gl/MCKYn #hardware | Jun 23 22:12 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Intel Releases Ivy Bridge Programming Docs Under CC License - Slashdot .::. Size~: 138.89 KB | Jun 23 22:12 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Police may have to destroy photos of innocent people after court ruling - http://bit.ly/MNf1yF bravo (v @zeitgeistlondon @julianhuppert) #uk | Jun 23 22:17 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Police may have to destroy photos of innocent people after court ruling | UK news | The Guardian .::. Size~: 107.67 KB | Jun 23 22:17 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[sebsebseb/@sebsebseb] !tzag Good Evening !Identiverse :). | Jun 23 22:19 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] [Phoronix] #NVIDIA Loses Huge GPU Order Due To #Linux Blob http://goo.gl/k4PFO a f* you to nvidia that really hurts their pockets! GOOD! | Jun 23 22:29 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: [Phoronix] NVIDIA Loses Huge GPU Order Due To Linux Blob .::. Size~: 19.05 KB | Jun 23 22:29 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] @sebsebseb excellent | Jun 23 22:40 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @NeelieKroesEU: Happy 100th birthday #AlanTuring. #ICT wouldn't be the same without you. http://p.ost.im/p/ecCQKV | Jun 23 22:44 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @NeelieKroesEU: "We can only see a short distance ahead, but we can see plenty there that needs to be do http://p.ost.im/p/ecwAT5 | Jun 23 22:44 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @NeelieKroesEU: MT @ECspokesRyan site worth sharing: "This Is What a Scientist Looks Like" http://t.co/5 http://p.ost.im/p/ecW5Pd | Jun 23 22:44 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ccbuhr/@ccbuhr] ccbuhr: RT @OpenAIRE_eu: @NeelieKroesEU on Royal Society's report, Open Science, Open Access, linking publications http://p.ost.im/p/ec7TpE | Jun 23 22:44 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] #Vatican Gets Fox Opus Dei Media Adviser http://goo.gl/ir9y9 vatican and fox? a marriage made in hell i guess! | Jun 23 22:44 | |
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| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] #Wikipedia As a "War Zone," Rather Than a Collaboration http://goo.gl/Flqel | Jun 23 22:45 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Wikipedia As a "War Zone," Rather Than a Collaboration - Slashdot .::. Size~: 91.34 KB | Jun 23 22:45 |
| *schestowitz (~schestowi@host109-149-155-236.range109-149.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 22:47 | |
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| schestowitz | I'm finishing some research ATM. I have been writing a report and also documenting all the code, data, etc., making it readily available and easy to use by anyone who may wish to continue the work. While some of the research shows the inability of particular method to beat state-of-the-art off-the-shelf products, one might wish to have another stab at it. If every path was successful, it would not be research. :-) | Jun 23 22:52 |
| schestowitz | https://identi.ca/notice/94790722 | Jun 23 22:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @Bijan (bijan)'s status on Thursday, 21-Jun-12 09:09:30 UTC - Identi.ca: it's simple caused by lack of user experience/knowledge i guess ;) | Jun 23 22:53 |
| schestowitz | https://identi.ca/notice/94827168 | Jun 23 22:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @Bijan (bijan)'s status on Friday, 22-Jun-12 13:36:19 UTC - Identi.ca: i think on Desktop market, Linux (still) has no power to stand against the decision made by rich companies and their allies. | Jun 23 22:53 |
| schestowitz | https://identi.ca/notice/94837177 | Jun 23 22:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @satipera (satipera)'s status on Friday, 22-Jun-12 20:59:11 UTC - Identi.ca: @Schestowitz We need to be afraid of the people with their foot on our necks. They do not live abroad they live very close to us. | Jun 23 22:53 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Oldie but goldie! Markorepairs and his VHS collection! My VCR collection VHS recorder :-) http://ur1.ca/9k0ii | Jun 23 22:59 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: My VCR collection VHS recorder - YouTube .::. Size~: 144.92 KB | Jun 23 22:59 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] I love my life! | Jun 23 23:02 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Still, spending $500,000 to figure out why apes throw shit is a little much | Jun 23 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | don't you think? | Jun 23 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | with this government money that goes to quacks, kooks, and highly questionable and outright pseudoscientific and/or trivial research, we could be doing something useful | Jun 23 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | I'll grant you that $500,000 to find out why apes throw shit is still a better use for the money than the military....but..... | Jun 23 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | we're not unlocking the secrets of the universe here | Jun 23 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | Why DO apes throw shit? | Jun 23 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | we simply must know! | Jun 23 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | get China on the phone, tell 'em we need another million dollars! | Jun 23 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | that ended up in Senator Coburn's federal waste book for FY 2012 | Jun 23 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | along with another $8 million for the Bridge to Nowhere in Alaska | Jun 23 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | and $765,000 to open up an IHOP franchise in DC | Jun 23 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | along with $17 million in borrowed Chinese money, going back to China as "foreign aid" | Jun 23 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | and the feds gave energy efficiency tax credits for home owners to people who don't own homes | Jun 23 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | including some people who are under 18 | Jun 23 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | and they spent federal money to open up a drug themed pizza restaurant and a couple hundred thousand dollars to a "video game museum" | Jun 23 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | it's always an interesting read to see what outright waste is going on in the federal government | Jun 23 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | they take half your fucking paycheck and use it to figure out why apes throw shit | Jun 23 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | we should be throwing ape shit at these fucks in Washington | Jun 23 23:13 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[wildcard/@wildcard] RT @glynmoody Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path - http://bit.ly/MFMQ2R also why #apple is the new #evil (v @ ... | Jun 23 23:14 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Unfixable Computers Are Leading Humanity Down a Perilous Path | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 67.63 KB | Jun 23 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | here we are talking about how Social Security and Medicare, and Food Stamps and NASA and all these other important programs are on the rocks, and the feds send hundreds of millions of dollars off on political pet projects that don't do society any good | Jun 23 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: You always hear about how the government has to fund research because companies wouldn't bother | Jun 23 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I can kind of see why no company would spend $500,000 researching apes throwing shit | Jun 23 23:16 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Saturday Night Fever. Lots of pics to post. Soon. | Jun 23 23:17 | |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1736626 ""joke come out! you're surrounded!" | Jun 23 23:18 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared:  How girls take pictures. #funny #pic #TGIF | Jun 23 23:18 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 23 23:18 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yeah | Jun 23 23:19 |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #ACTA: „Governance by Shitstorm“ - http://bit.ly/PRgB34 wow: what a shoddy piece of #FUD from #FAZ; good debunking from @netzpolitik | Jun 23 23:19 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[nj3ma/@nj3ma] Next stop Dallas. | Jun 23 23:19 | |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: ACTA: „Governance by Shitstorm“. › netzpolitik.org .::. Size~: 43 KB | Jun 23 23:19 |
| schestowitz | it's more complicated than that | Jun 23 23:19 |
| schestowitz | the way universities are funded | Jun 23 23:19 |
| schestowitz | tuition and all, plus some grants for people's status in there | Jun 23 23:19 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: chimps fling faeces, but do academics get grant to learn it? | Jun 23 23:20 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1737007 | Jun 23 23:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: New KDE Copy Dialog: First Preview http://en.munknex.net/2012/06/new-kde-copy-dialog-first-preview.html #kde #gnu #linux | Jun 23 23:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | -> Title: Cyril Oblikov: New KDE Copy Dialog: First Preview .::. Size~: 69.46 KB | Jun 23 23:20 |
| schestowitz | "The art of copying files" | Jun 23 23:20 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1737152 | Jun 23 23:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared:  | Jun 23 23:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Missing content type. Ignoring. | Jun 23 23:20 |
| schestowitz | "Good quote. This is something I intend to take quite literally. Check out my blog https://wfatp.wordpress.com/" | Jun 23 23:20 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Page not found « Walker For All That's Positive .::. Size~: 17.42 KB | Jun 23 23:20 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1738042 | Jun 23 23:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: #humor #funny | Jun 23 23:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Photo by jaume@calispora.org: https://calispora.org/uploads/images/thumb_medium_6a5e81e39d8855bc4def.jpg | Jun 23 23:23 |
| schestowitz | "OH MAN XD" | Jun 23 23:23 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1738042 | Jun 23 23:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: #humor #funny | Jun 23 23:23 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Photo by jaume@calispora.org: https://calispora.org/uploads/images/thumb_medium_6a5e81e39d8855bc4def.jpg | Jun 23 23:23 |
| schestowitz | "oh God i love this meme face XD" | Jun 23 23:23 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1738711 | Jun 23 23:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: In Soviet... [IMG] http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/4567626_700b_v1.jpg | Jun 23 23:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 23 23:24 |
| schestowitz | "And it's true :D" | Jun 23 23:24 |
| *Diablo-D3 (diablo@caspar.adterrasperaspera.com) has joined #techrights | Jun 23 23:31 | |
| -TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Sleepy time amidst some construction chaos. I will be cleaning the apartment the whole day tmrw, I guess. | Jun 23 23:34 | |
| *oddball33 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Jun 23 23:34 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: If an ape throws some shit in a forest and a federally subsidized researcher isn't around to watch, does anyone care? | Jun 23 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jun 23 23:50 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Jun 23 23:56 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.jerrydoyle.com/jd-vegas-cam-good-news-or-bad-news-for-economic-recovery-during-the-campaig | Jun 23 23:58 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: JD Vegas Cam: Good News Or Bad News For Economic Recovery During the Campaign? - The Jerry Doyle Show .::. Size~: 27.78 KB | Jun 23 23:58 |
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