| *r0ver (n=r0ver@200.68.91.21) has left #boycottnovell | Jan 30 00:02 |
| flyback | good | Jan 30 00:05 |
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| *flyback applauds america | Jan 30 00:05 |
| schestowitz | "BoycottNovell does an excellent service - maintaining a single site where all the tricks employed by Microsoft can be put on display for the whole world to see." < http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?l... > | Jan 30 00:06 |
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| flyback | the majority of the mainstream media is unwilling to cover the nonsensical junk science of the right-wing think tanks and their cadre of scientists for hire. | Jan 30 00:07 |
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| flyback | oh | Jan 30 00:07 |
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| flyback | you mean like them all unwilling to cover when a kid found a major miscalculation in global warming 100 yr trends? | Jan 30 00:07 |
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| flyback | that even some proponents of global warming say it's better to have the correct numbers | Jan 30 00:07 |
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| schestowitz | proponents? | Jan 30 00:07 |
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| schestowitz | I wouldn't call it that | Jan 30 00:08 |
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| flyback | people who agree on global warming | Jan 30 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | No-one is a proponent, but some deny the impact of human machinations | Jan 30 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | Temperature is far from the only issue | Jan 30 00:08 |
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| schestowitz | Another is resources being finite, and not just oil. | Jan 30 00:09 |
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| MinceR | gn | Jan 30 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | With deforestation you are left with less oxygen and less use of to to produce edible substance for the food chain. | Jan 30 00:10 |
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| flyback | well no arguement with replanting trees | Jan 30 00:10 |
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| flyback | that's just common sense | Jan 30 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | It's happening. | Jan 30 00:10 |
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| schestowitz | Though consumption o lumber will stagnate with the bad economy. | Jan 30 00:10 |
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| flyback | I also don't have a problem with reduction of pollution, I just still not convinced on co2 | Jan 30 00:11 |
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| flyback | I don't mind increase energy efficiency of appliances either | Jan 30 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | That's old news | Jan 30 00:11 |
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| flyback | i | Jan 30 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | The denails came more recently. | Jan 30 00:11 |
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| flyback | i am just sick of all this shit of all these morons trying to weigh even having sex in terms of carbon | Jan 30 00:11 |
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| schestowitz | Were were told this at school when I was under 10. The denials came much later -- a propaganda surge, like the tobacco companies'. | Jan 30 00:12 |
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| schestowitz | *LOL* | Jan 30 00:12 |
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| flyback | blah blah blah | Jan 30 00:12 |
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| schestowitz | Showers are probably much more weight-worthy, next to automobiles. | Jan 30 00:12 |
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| flyback | and as far as I am concerned | Jan 30 00:12 |
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| flyback | these assholes and teachers who go along with it trying to scare little kids to influnce their parents about global warming | Jan 30 00:12 |
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| flyback | are no better than child molestors | Jan 30 00:13 |
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| schestowitz | A plane will produce half a tonne of CO2 _per passenger_ on a long flight. | Jan 30 00:13 |
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| flyback | and deserve the same penalty | Jan 30 00:13 |
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| flyback | bullet to the head | Jan 30 00:13 |
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| schestowitz | Teachers? | Jan 30 00:13 |
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| schestowitz | That's a but extreme, no? | Jan 30 00:13 |
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| flyback | no it's not | Jan 30 00:13 |
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| flyback | terrorifying little children is bullshit | Jan 30 00:14 |
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| flyback | this is the shit hitler did in schools | Jan 30 00:14 |
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| schestowitz | But he promoted racism and hatred | Jan 30 00:14 |
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| schestowitz | Here you talk about encouragement/discouragement of action | Jan 30 00:14 |
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| flyback | that too | Jan 30 00:14 |
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| flyback | he was the biggest cock sucker ever | Jan 30 00:14 |
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| schestowitz | And since you brought it up, the US does that too | Jan 30 00:14 |
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| flyback | now he can suck cock in hell | Jan 30 00:14 |
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| schestowitz | Goebbels-ism lives on | Jan 30 00:15 |
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| flyback | whatever the fuck that is | Jan 30 00:15 |
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| schestowitz | The meaning of reference? | Jan 30 00:15 |
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| schestowitz | *or | Jan 30 00:15 |
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| flyback | whatever stupid ism crap someone made up | Jan 30 00:15 |
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| schestowitz | I don't know if there is a word for it | Jan 30 00:16 |
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| schestowitz | But the term was sort of coin and attribted to a certain pattern | Jan 30 00:16 |
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| schestowitz | Propaganda predates Nazi Germany | Jan 30 00:16 |
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| schestowitz | It came from the PR industry | Jan 30 00:16 |
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| schestowitz | In its gentler form it's used to subjugate and arouse attraction to distraction and superficial things in life | Jan 30 00:17 |
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| schestowitz | Radicalism is entirely separate. You could classify many of today's exposures (everyday ones) as "propaganda", and likewise, to borrow Ron Paul's word, you could call the US regime "soft facism" (that's what a Ron Paul called it) | Jan 30 00:18 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/29... (Indian embassy website hack part of wider assault) | Jan 30 00:40 |
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| schestowitz | wasabi: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/01/na... "However, the term "intellectual privilege" seems to work. It's got the right initial letters, which is a huge win! But it also correctly describes the actual nature of the temporary rights we're considering." | Jan 30 01:18 |
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| MinceR | geekings | Jan 30 09:06 |
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| schestowitz | Morning | Jan 30 09:06 |
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| schestowitz | Yahoo! lobs! Briefcase! into! rubbish! bin! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/30... | Jan 30 10:01 |
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| schestowitz | MS division lays off 10%: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/30/c... | Jan 30 10:02 |
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| schestowitz | "The workforce reductions will save Citrix about $50m a year in costs, and the company will book charges in the range of $19m to $23m, mostly in the first quarter of 2009, to cover the layoffs." | Jan 30 10:05 |
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| schestowitz | That's just another Microsoft subsidiary (ish) laying people off. | Jan 30 10:06 |
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| schestowitz | Feds: IT admin plotted to erase Fannie Mae < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/29/fa... > | Jan 30 10:07 |
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| schestowitz | Chartered Semiconductor Cuts 600 Staff as Downturn Worsens < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158618/charte... > | Jan 30 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | Good evening, anthony. | Jan 30 11:10 |
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| schestowitz | Fired Fannie Mae Contractor Tried to Crash Network < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158596/fired_fa... > | Jan 30 11:10 |
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| Omar87 | Hi all | Jan 30 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, Omar87. | Jan 30 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | Omar87: 2 hours ago I watched this interesting video about daemonisation which I think you'll find interesting. | Jan 30 11:50 |
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| schestowitz | It starts here about 5 minutes from the start http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0RfI... and continues here http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T_vc2YMo2ZE&... | Jan 30 11:51 |
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| Omar87 | schestowitz: What is it about? | Jan 30 12:00 |
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| schestowitz | Daemonisation in Hollywood. | Jan 30 12:00 |
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| schestowitz | I hate propaganda. | Jan 30 12:00 |
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| schestowitz | The 10-part mashup is wide ranging, mainly a criticism of authority that deceives and subjugates. it's worth a watch. | Jan 30 12:02 |
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| schestowitz | Google slaughters animals...? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/30/who... | Jan 30 12:08 |
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| Omar87 | schestowitz: Are you sure you're talking about Google? Not KFC? | Jan 30 12:12 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Jan 30 12:13 |
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| schestowitz | Well, it's Google's knowledge-lusting vehicles | Jan 30 12:13 |
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| Omar87 | :D | Jan 30 12:13 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/techno... http://thedw.us/post/74073534/google-maps-fi... | Jan 30 12:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://digg.com/tech_news/Google_... | Jan 30 12:14 |
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| schestowitz | Aperi dies on its arse < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... > | Jan 30 12:20 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.tuxmachines.org/apache2-default/ "tuxmachines will return if you will. We are in the process of moving files at this time and should be online later today. " | Jan 30 12:25 |
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| schestowitz | Ewww... "Bartz tells Ballmer "eat my shorts"" < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/7... > | Jan 30 12:36 |
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| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki: is your site down? | Jan 30 12:40 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, wait, it responded after like 2 minutes (!!) | Jan 30 12:41 |
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| schestowitz | Poor Google's PR gaffe... "If Google Earth didn't exist, would they have used a tourist map, he added." < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new... > | Jan 30 12:46 |
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| schestowitz | Thig man's upset.. I’m Not Boycotting FOSDEM About Novell, So Please Stop Saying That < http://www.news.software.coop/im-not-boycot... > | Jan 30 13:06 |
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| schestowitz | Apple vs. Palm: the In-Depth Analysis < http://www.osnews.com/story/20876/Apple_... > | Jan 30 13:13 |
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| schestowitz | " Many of the Haitians who overthrew Aristide's government (in a coup organized by the Bush regime) now are accused of drug trafficking by the US. I suspect that other parts of the US government, those which worked with these people in the coup, are protecting them now." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-nov-f... | Jan 30 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | Shrinking Glaciers Have Put Tibetans in the Path of Climate Chaos < http://www.alternet.org/story/121871/ >. Recipe for more confrontation . Climate crisis leading to wars/nuclear crises. | Jan 30 13:15 |
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| schestowitz | Attenborough reveals creationist hate mail for not crediting God < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ja... > | Jan 30 13:16 |
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| schestowitz | "Sir David Attenborough has revealed that he receives hate mail from viewers for failing to credit God in his documentaries. In an interview with this week's Radio Times about his latest documentary, on Charles Darwin and natural selection, the broadcaster said: "They tell me to burn in hell and good riddance."" | Jan 30 13:16 |
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| schestowitz | "Two courts in the UK have now agreed that the minute of B'liar's cabinet meeting, which discussed invading Iraq, must be published so people can judge whether the invasion was illegal." http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-nov-fe... | Jan 30 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | "That means we have a chance of seeing B'liar behind bars. But that will not automatically restore the Rights of Englishmen which he has mostly abolished." | Jan 30 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | GNU is the way forward < http://www.thezimbabwetimes.com/?p=10685 > | Jan 30 13:35 |
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| kentma | he should be behind bars, I think | Jan 30 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | Instead he's at the bar ;-) | Jan 30 15:13 |
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| kentma | his mrs certainly is :-) | Jan 30 15:13 |
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| schestowitz | LOL | Jan 30 15:13 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, by the way Mark, Linux Format (Magazine) got in touch with me last night | Jan 30 15:28 |
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| schestowitz | Simulated Wi-Fi Worm Infects Thousands Of Routers Overnight < http://www.darkreading.com/security/vulnerabi... > | Jan 30 15:29 |
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| PetoKraus | i wonder about that one | Jan 30 15:31 |
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| PetoKraus | i don't know of any router using windows | Jan 30 15:31 |
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| PetoKraus | so how could possibly malware infect the router? | Jan 30 15:32 |
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| PetoKraus | Myers said that since wireless routers generally do not run antivirus software, there might not be a way to clean an infected router. But users can prevent most infection threats by using strong passwords and WPA -- not WEP -- for encryption. | Jan 30 15:32 |
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| PetoKraus | what the...? | Jan 30 15:32 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: what did the LF guys have to say? | Jan 30 15:33 |
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| PetoKraus | what's this darkreading page | Jan 30 15:33 |
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| PetoKraus | a trollpost or what | Jan 30 15:33 |
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| kentma | darkreading? possibly. lightreading & heavyreading are Graham Finney and co - Graham's very good. | Jan 30 15:35 |
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| PetoKraus | i'm talking about the link above | Jan 30 15:36 |
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| PetoKraus | http://www.darkreading.com/security/vulnera... | Jan 30 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: I thanked them for getting in touch because the guy who edits was running a small discussion on Mono. They asked for feedback from some members of our community, and their responses have been largely positive about Mono, with the general belief being that it's beneficial. | Jan 30 15:36 |
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| PetoKraus | this is next one on tap | Jan 30 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | The editor knew that Boycott Novell takes a very strong stance on Mono, so he wanted to ensure they cover both sides of the story if possible. So I mailed him back. | Jan 30 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: it comes via Windows machines that are connected to it. | Jan 30 15:36 |
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| kentma | excellent. Mono is, I believe, a very dangerous thing. It's function is as "patent carrier", a bit like releasing a diseased insect into a colony in order to kill the colony. | Jan 30 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | it's similar to Samba or sendmail "sending" viruses. They merely transmit. | Jan 30 15:37 |
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| PetoKraus | but hell | Jan 30 15:37 |
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| PetoKraus | they are not stored on the router any way | Jan 30 15:37 |
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| PetoKraus | *in any way | Jan 30 15:37 |
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| kentma | PetoKraus: I see what you mean... | Jan 30 15:37 |
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| PetoKraus | and the study is requiring subscription | Jan 30 15:37 |
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| PetoKraus | i'm not paying 10$ for a piece of crap | Jan 30 15:37 |
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| PetoKraus | which has already been paid for by it's taxpayers | Jan 30 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: biological analogies are not fancied by the Mono people | Jan 30 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | [H]omer called it "poisonware" and they don't like it either... like "infection".. | Jan 30 15:38 |
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| kentma | "patent carrier" will do for me. It's not biological. Maybe it's like an aircraft carrier :-) | Jan 30 15:38 |
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| kentma | It's designed to kill, though, either way. | Jan 30 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: "If you want to quote some of the comments from that blog entry in your reply, that's fine too - we just want to make sure we give equal space to both sides of the question! I know your site generally covers a wide range of Microsoft, Novell and interoperability issues, but for the purpose of this discussion we particularly want to focus on the influence Mono is having on the Linux world." | Jan 30 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: Jose_x wants to do an article proving that patents can exist in APIs | Jan 30 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | The Mono crowd consistently denies it (well, AlexH does) | Jan 30 15:40 |
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| kentma | possibly AlexH believes it too. Doesn't make it correct, though. | Jan 30 15:41 |
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| -tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all. One of a client servers appears to be having connectivity problems which we're currently investigating. On our more positive note freenode turned 15 yesterday! Happy birthday everyone and thanks for using freenode! | Jan 30 15:43 |
| schestowitz | They had exchanged over 200 comments in this thread | Jan 30 15:43 |
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| PetoKraus | hm | Jan 30 15:45 |
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| PetoKraus | http://tech.slashdot.org/comment... | Jan 30 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | http://tech.slashdot.org/comments... | Jan 30 15:49 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah | Jan 30 16:01 |
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| schestowitz | This is amazing: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/busine... | Jan 30 16:03 |
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| schestowitz | The MSBBC treats its columnist Bill Gates like he's an ecnomist | Jan 30 16:03 |
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| schestowitz | Forget about professors of economics and Nobel laureates. Listen to a man who built a career from stealing other people's ideas and then breaking laws... | Jan 30 16:04 |
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| *Casperin has quit ("Leaving") | Jan 30 16:05 |
| kentma | it's confusing fiscal manipulation with the study of economics... | Jan 30 16:06 |
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| zer0c00l | he is isn't a economist he is a cheat | Jan 30 16:06 |
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| zer0c00l | del is | Jan 30 16:06 |
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| twitter | What organizations are working for Free Science Journals? | Jan 30 16:08 |
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| schestowitz | zer0c00l: Dell? | Jan 30 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | From Davos also: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en... | Jan 30 16:10 |
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| zer0c00l | sorry i typed a extra *is* so i asked to delete it | Jan 30 16:11 |
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| zer0c00l | nothing else | Jan 30 16:11 |
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| zer0c00l | :P | Jan 30 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | Video here: Putin to Dell: Make that BIC < http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/01... > | Jan 30 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | Elites playing Gods in Switzerland. | Jan 30 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | Watch him bitchslapped by Putin. Got to love it! | Jan 30 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.tgdaily.com/content... ( Putin rejects Dell's offer of aid ) | Jan 30 16:13 |
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| twitter | I was unable to watch the video to that. clive downloaded a low res flv file that barfed X when I tried to play it with kmplayer. | Jan 30 16:27 |
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| schestowitz | In Soviet Putin, video plays *you* | Jan 30 16:28 |
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| schestowitz | Renesas Cutting 2,500 Workers in Japan < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158621/re... > ... a shame really because they do some Linux too. | Jan 30 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | Fujitsu Revises Outlook, Expects First Loss in Six Years < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158620/fu... > | Jan 30 16:29 |
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| twitter | In Putin's Russia, Government regulates monopoly. | Jan 30 16:33 |
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| MinceR | In Soviet USA, business regulates government. | Jan 30 16:34 |
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| twitter | yes, we are so used to it that the normal situation sounds like a joke. | Jan 30 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, jose | Jan 30 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | I want to post something about API patents | Jan 30 16:42 |
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| jose | what? | Jan 30 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | Oh wait. | Jan 30 16:43 |
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| jose | i have reworked the writing a few times | Jan 30 16:43 |
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| schestowitz | Jose_X | Jan 30 16:43 |
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| schestowitz | OK | Jan 30 16:43 |
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| jose | still need more time | Jan 30 16:43 |
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| *schestowitz thought he had misidentified | Jan 30 16:43 |
| jose | what did you want to post | Jan 30 16:43 |
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| schestowitz | There's an article about Mono coming to "print" | Jan 30 16:43 |
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| schestowitz | UK magazine | Jan 30 16:43 |
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| jose | when, about what, and what does this have to do wth patents | Jan 30 16:44 |
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| jose | ..besides the risks of course | Jan 30 16:44 |
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| jose | do you want to provide a balancing reply? | Jan 30 16:44 |
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| jose | .. near the same time of publication? | Jan 30 16:44 |
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| jose | ...moving to a diff topic for a second | Jan 30 16:45 |
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| schestowitz | The issue came up earlier | Jan 30 16:45 |
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| jose | [back to prior topic..] what issue? | Jan 30 16:45 |
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| schestowitz | Mono and patents | Jan 30 16:46 |
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| jose | so let me ask again.. is the need you have to post about patents/api related to the timing of this mono publication? | Jan 30 16:47 |
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| jose | i meant to say, "so let me ask differently" | Jan 30 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | jose: in a way, yes. | Jan 30 16:50 |
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| jose | i like the angle I am taking.. and there is some further insight.. but the article is still very unfinished (paragraphs that don't work well into each other). and is still missing an important piece: examples | Jan 30 16:50 |
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| schestowitz | AlexH vanished again | Jan 30 16:50 |
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| jose | let me put something together in the next few hours and i'll email you the draft with comments about what is missing. | Jan 30 16:50 |
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| schestowitz | As for Dan O'Brian, he vanished immediately after I'd pointed out that he's posting from near Novell (Massachusetts). He did like 50 comments/day before that. | Jan 30 16:51 |
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| jose | i haven't had as much time to put into that as I would like | Jan 30 16:52 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks. | Jan 30 16:52 |
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| jose | before i get to working on it then, let me mention some ideas about what balance sheet, cash flows, and income might be hiding. | Jan 30 16:54 |
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| jose | i'm just throwing this out since if things happen in the future, this might give insight.. but i'm not suggesting anyone (eg, ms) is doing any of this. | Jan 30 16:54 |
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| jose | .. is doing any of this in actuality today. | Jan 30 16:55 |
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| jose | i'm not an accountant and have limited knowledge.. keep that in mind | Jan 30 16:55 |
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| jose | ok. | Jan 30 16:55 |
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| jose | earnings: | Jan 30 16:55 |
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| jose | you make a huge multiyear sale and decide to book most of the gains up front in the earlier years. | Jan 30 16:56 |
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| jose | result: income statement will really be helped today | Jan 30 16:56 |
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| jose | the clients give some of that money today but not nearly all of it. | Jan 30 16:56 |
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| jose | how do you respond? | Jan 30 16:57 |
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| jose | your accounts receivable (an asset) grows... | Jan 30 16:57 |
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| jose | and you "invest" in that client. | Jan 30 16:57 |
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| jose | the "investment" reduces your cashflows naturally since it's money you would have had coming but did not receive (or "sort of got but put right back into the investment" | Jan 30 16:58 |
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| jose | the balance sheet shows large numbers.. revenues and earnings | Jan 30 16:58 |
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| jose | you can then borrow money | Jan 30 16:58 |
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| jose | to fatten the cash | Jan 30 16:58 |
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| schestowitz | You are apt at programming, no? | Jan 30 16:59 |
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| jose | which you can then use to buy stock or dividends | Jan 30 16:59 |
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| jose | [why is schestowitz interrupting?] | Jan 30 16:59 |
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| schestowitz | We had a discussion about paper money last year, remember? | Jan 30 16:59 |
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| jose | ;-) | Jan 30 16:59 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft's imaginary value | Jan 30 16:59 |
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| schestowitz | The valuation has gone down the gutter since | Jan 30 16:59 |
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| *schestowitz is also doing Comes exhibits now (hence lag) | Jan 30 16:59 |
| jose | schestowitz is always doing comes exhibits now | Jan 30 17:00 |
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| schestowitz | jose: no, not interrupting, just reading from 'the top' first | Jan 30 17:00 |
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| schestowitz | I find it fascination how the (now unfolding) financial scam impacts those who gamed the system the most | Jan 30 17:01 |
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| jose | well to conclude the earnings thing.. the problem will be that you look good on paper today, but then the revenues and cash dry up tomorrow.. the end. | Jan 30 17:01 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is among these (probably Novell too) | Jan 30 17:01 |
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| schestowitz | Novell was sued by investors | Jan 30 17:01 |
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| schestowitz | Groklaw also caught them last year | Jan 30 17:01 |
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| jose | the b&m foundry is the "secret" mine where the thieves stash the loot taken from the public. .. | Jan 30 17:04 |
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| jose | they are only leveraging the system that exists | Jan 30 17:04 |
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| schestowitz | B&M? | Jan 30 17:08 |
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| jose | gates foundry | Jan 30 17:20 |
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| jose | bill melinda | Jan 30 17:20 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jan 30 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | Thew tax evading, puppy-loving scheme | Jan 30 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | jose: can you write an essay to explain this? Even a short one. I'd love to publish this. | Jan 30 17:24 |
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| jose | what are we talking about now? | Jan 30 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | There are other issues with B&M, the least of which being that they push the IP of US-based pharmas that 'buy' lives | Jan 30 17:25 |
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| jose | schestowitz, are you saying you want a short essay soon on the patent/api? | Jan 30 17:30 |
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| jose | let me quote something from the current draft (I hope to keep it to the point and as short as possible): ... | Jan 30 17:30 |
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| jose | "A patent claim can be redefined as a set of properties (p1, p2, ..) such that infringement by a product occurs if and only if these patent claim properties are all included among the set of properties defining the product. A claim usually can be defined with a (relatively) small number of basic properties, usually expressed using high-level descriptions in (eg) English." | Jan 30 17:30 |
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| jose | it gets better though... | Jan 30 17:31 |
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| jose | but this upcoming quote is the point where I stopped yesterday | Jan 30 17:31 |
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| jose | "What is an "API"? An API is any specification of a software interface.[1] In the current context, an API will require that a software product or software method attain certain properties. The development platform surrounding that API will make sure that the applications being built according to an API perform according to the API. If the API says that use of X according to its rules will imply all Ys will have Zs, then the development platform tools wil | Jan 30 17:32 |
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| jose | l ensure that, when X is used as prescribed, the application acquires the property that all Ys will have Zs." | Jan 30 17:32 |
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| jose | i'm not sure if throwing this out makes sense | Jan 30 17:32 |
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| jose | a key point is to redefine patent claims, products, and api, in terms of properties that hold, resp. | Jan 30 17:33 |
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| *Tallken has quit (Client Quit) | Jan 30 17:33 |
| jose | it then becomes very easy to see just how api can be used to instill ("bake in") the properties of the patent into the products | Jan 30 17:34 |
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| jose | i want to compare/contrast some of the main possibilities when you have a patent, an api, and a product.. this way people can more easily see by seeing the differences | Jan 30 17:35 |
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| jose | ..and the similarities | Jan 30 17:35 |
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| jose | honestly, I'm trying not to make it too technical sounding.. | Jan 30 17:36 |
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| jose | in the draft, i'm just getting the main framework based on some things I thought about some days back (after I wrote you) | Jan 30 17:36 |
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| jose | i also want to add some key examples (hypotheticals but based on real api or patents.. to ground it in reality some) | Jan 30 17:37 |
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| jose | ..and for effect | Jan 30 17:37 |
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| jose | finally, i'll need to rework the draft a few times so that it all gels together ok | Jan 30 17:37 |
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| jose | so, schestowitz.. | Jan 30 17:37 |
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| jose | if you want a short version.. what should i focus on.. or do you want to wait? | Jan 30 17:38 |
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| schestowitz | Good. | Jan 30 17:40 |
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| schestowitz | You seem to have formalised it | Jan 30 17:41 |
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| schestowitz | OK. Caught up | Jan 30 17:42 |
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| schestowitz | That's all good, even if you don't think it's polished enough. | Jan 30 17:42 |
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| jose | well, i posted something that i felt sounded good, but there has to be more | Jan 30 17:43 |
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| jose | so do you want to wait a bit or what? | Jan 30 17:43 |
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| jose | i even considered how far i might be able to formalize a proof.. but it's not my.. | Jan 30 17:44 |
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| jose | interest at this point in time to attempt that because so many aspects depend on things like.. | Jan 30 17:44 |
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| jose | English interpretation of (a) law, (b) patents, ... inside court rooms. | Jan 30 17:45 |
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| jose | i'd also have to make sure i know every detail of current law.. eg, us law | Jan 30 17:45 |
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| jose | i like math because you can ultimately come up with something that is almost completely proven without doubt (assuming you can follow the jargon).. | Jan 30 17:45 |
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| jose | and you rely on very well defined items | Jan 30 17:46 |
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| jose | on the other hand, a model can be created for anything. | Jan 30 17:46 |
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| jose | so a simple model for patents might be possible and then something like a formal proof could be attempted (while stating the assumptions, etc) | Jan 30 17:46 |
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| jose | anyway.. i was just fantisizing for a minute there | Jan 30 17:47 |
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| jose | what i care about is that if real dangers exist, that developers have their eyes open to them | Jan 30 17:47 |
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| jose | and that less tech savvy people understand the gist of the arguments and vote accordingly | Jan 30 17:48 |
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| schestowitz | jose: that's good | Jan 30 17:48 |
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| schestowitz | In fact, all the comments back then were good | Jan 30 17:48 |
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| jose | this time, we talk about the patent-api trap. later on we can talk more carefully about implications | Jan 30 17:49 |
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| schestowitz | That's why I wanted to make a post out of them to give them visibility, you know? | Jan 30 17:49 |
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| schestowitz | There are also those from Linux Today | Jan 30 17:49 |
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| schestowitz | You could, in principle, just group a few and have them posted | Jan 30 17:49 |
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| jose | i'll reference the two from LT that are easy to follow | Jan 30 17:49 |
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| jose | in fact, at the very top, i reference them since they serve to communicate the main points easily | Jan 30 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | yes, link to comments too | Jan 30 17:50 |
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| jose | .. and i can then get a little more technical so that i don't wave my hands as much and am more believable | Jan 30 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | Use it as peripheral source. | Jan 30 17:50 |
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| jose | i may link to a few other comments | Jan 30 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | I do this a lot in BN to keep posts concise | Jan 30 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | As if to say, "I covered X there, so I hereby paste [X] here" | Jan 30 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | Instead of pasting I just link | Jan 30 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | In USENET it's harder | Jan 30 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | I have no mechanism for linking there | Jan 30 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | Re: Comes, the Wiki is brilliant for the purpose | Jan 30 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | I can link in cyclic fashion too, so it's easy to group evidence and show how things are related to one another | Jan 30 17:52 |
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| jose | yes, a wiki can really offload work from you so that it can get done faster (no central chokepoint) | Jan 30 17:52 |
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| schestowitz | When I started BN Shane and I started with 0 | Jan 30 17:52 |
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| MinceR | http://www.penny-arcade.com... | Jan 30 17:52 |
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| schestowitz | When the site was accommodated with like 5500 posts it got easy to find 'proof' for anything (mainly extremal refs in internal 'umbrellas'). A lot of merely cumulative | Jan 30 17:53 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/ind... | Jan 30 18:03 |
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| trmanco | :O | Jan 30 18:08 |
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| trmanco | 450 new messages in COLA | Jan 30 18:08 |
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| trmanco | lets see how many I will have after I apply the filters | Jan 30 18:08 |
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| trmanco | 333 | Jan 30 18:09 |
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| trmanco | hmmm | Jan 30 18:09 |
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| schestowitz | Trolling declined | Jan 30 18:20 |
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| trmanco | I might of missed a new troll or something | Jan 30 18:24 |
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| schestowitz | This might make the front page: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Mic... | Jan 30 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php... "You're not the only one to have seen this. Every time Microsoft is in some form of trouble (financial, legal, competitive, etc.), the astroturfers slither out of the woodwork." | Jan 30 18:54 |
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