| oiaohm | Worked for chrismas | Feb 22 14:58 |
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| oiaohm | but USA did not turn around. | Feb 22 14:58 |
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| oiaohm | It was just a short term kicker. | Feb 22 14:58 |
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| oiaohm | To buy time to work out what to do next. | Feb 22 14:59 |
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| Guest33678 | give em another grand? | Feb 22 14:59 |
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| oiaohm | No not this time. | Feb 22 14:59 |
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| Guest33678 | 2 grand then | Feb 22 14:59 |
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| oiaohm | It training green power generation systems ... | Feb 22 14:59 |
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| oiaohm | All things we need long term. | Feb 22 15:00 |
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| oiaohm | Even discounts on fitting insultation to houses. | Feb 22 15:00 |
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| Guest33678 | we have something similar here in the uk | Feb 22 15:00 |
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| oiaohm | Even so I still see it as not the right thing. | Feb 22 15:01 |
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| oiaohm | If you have a bucket with 1 million holes. | Feb 22 15:01 |
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| oiaohm | Puting more watter in only buys time. | Feb 22 15:01 |
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| oiaohm | Not fixes problem. | Feb 22 15:01 |
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| Guest33678 | don't see how it will help alleviate the problems of the here and now, but then i don't think anybody does | Feb 22 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | It's a compromise really. | Feb 22 15:02 |
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| oiaohm | The alterations might see australia beat its green house targets. | Feb 22 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | You know, Soros bragged about making money from this | Feb 22 15:02 |
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| oiaohm | When it hits bottom I can make some large money from this. | Feb 22 15:03 |
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| Guest33678 | where is the bottom? | Feb 22 15:04 |
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| oiaohm | That is the question. | Feb 22 15:04 |
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| oiaohm | Somewhere between 6 months and 20 years. | Feb 22 15:04 |
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| Guest33678 | i bought some shares in a construction company a few months back they were at 9p on a 52 week high of 300p | Feb 22 15:04 |
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| Guest33678 | they then proceeded to drop to 4p | Feb 22 15:05 |
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| oiaohm | All depend on how long before goverments do the wrong thing. | Feb 22 15:05 |
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| oiaohm | And how much debt they get themselfs into. | Feb 22 15:05 |
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| oiaohm | 1 trillion dollars debt you really don't want to think of the interest payment on that. | Feb 22 15:05 |
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| Guest33678 | UK debt is now running at €£33,000 for every man woman and child | Feb 22 15:06 |
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| Guest33678 | and rising | Feb 22 15:06 |
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| oiaohm | Worst case for the USA is they could get themselfs in so deep there credit could close on them. | Feb 22 15:06 |
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| Guest33678 | then what? | Feb 22 15:06 |
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| Guest33678 | WW3? | Feb 22 15:06 |
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| oiaohm | we were at 0 before this mess started. | Feb 22 15:08 |
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| oiaohm | After many years of good money management. | Feb 22 15:08 |
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| oiaohm | Current worry is $9500 debt per person. | Feb 22 15:08 |
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| oiaohm | From current plans to keep everything turning over. | Feb 22 15:09 |
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| benJIman | Guest33678: Does that include mortgage debt? | Feb 22 15:09 |
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| Guest33678 | that is an eigth of ours | Feb 22 15:09 |
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| benJIman | Guest33678: You're assuming it's measured the same. | Feb 22 15:09 |
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| Guest33678 | eighth | Feb 22 15:09 |
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| oiaohm | AUD | Feb 22 15:10 |
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| *schestowitz catches up | Feb 22 15:10 |
| oiaohm | 9500 AUD | Feb 22 15:10 |
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| benJIman | I think the €£33k includes mortgage debt. | Feb 22 15:10 |
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| oiaohm | Its a lot less than a 8. | Feb 22 15:10 |
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| oiaohm | I hope so. | Feb 22 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | Guest33678: ah! The stocks roulette | Feb 22 15:10 |
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| Guest33678 | = approxd €£4000 (x 8 = €£32,000) | Feb 22 15:10 |
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| oiaohm | 9500 is national debt not internal debts. | Feb 22 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | The Casino may have better odd than FrausStreet nowadays | Feb 22 15:10 |
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| schestowitz | Guest33678: got reference for the debt figure? | Feb 22 15:11 |
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| schestowitz | I thought it was just about 1k or 10k pounds per person. | Feb 22 15:11 |
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| Guest33678 | telegraph again wait a min | Feb 22 15:11 |
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| schestowitz | As in, debt of 600 billion pounds | Feb 22 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | In the US it's similar then | Feb 22 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | 11,000,000,000,000/320,000,000 | Feb 22 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | But in US$ | Feb 22 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | So $30k per person | Feb 22 15:13 |
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| Guest33678 | here is the link | Feb 22 15:13 |
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| Guest33678 | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1... | Feb 22 15:13 |
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| schestowitz | 2 trillion?? | Feb 22 15:14 |
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| schestowitz | $3tr | Feb 22 15:14 |
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| Guest33678 | ya | Feb 22 15:14 |
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| oiaohm | household debt is also droping here. | Feb 22 15:14 |
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| schestowitz | So no netter than the US | Feb 22 15:14 |
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| oiaohm | People have doubled what they are paying off. | Feb 22 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | Assuming in the US they calculate non-comparible things. | Feb 22 15:15 |
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| oiaohm | So yes we do have panic | Feb 22 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | Like no debt | Feb 22 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | That's why I realise that people underestimate the deficit | Feb 22 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | They cite figures like $1500 per person | Feb 22 15:15 |
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| Guest33678 | How long would it take a family of four to pay €£132,000 via taxes etc, over and above what it already pays to keep the country working? | Feb 22 15:17 |
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| Guest33678 | Assuming the two adults each earn the median wage of say €£25,000 pa | Feb 22 15:20 |
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| schestowitz | Do you reckon macroeconomists saw this coming? | Feb 22 15:21 |
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| oiaohm | Australian kinda did. | Feb 22 15:21 |
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| oiaohm | We just have a problem now. Wrong type of goverment in. | Feb 22 15:21 |
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| oiaohm | We put in a spending goverment | Feb 22 15:22 |
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| oiaohm | Not a smart tatical one. | Feb 22 15:22 |
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| schestowitz | But they follow others | Feb 22 15:23 |
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| schestowitz | The issue was imaginary wealth | Feb 22 15:23 |
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| schestowitz | Like patents, like mortgages | Feb 22 15:23 |
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| schestowitz | So Australia may assume its banks and commerce has some actual value | Feb 22 15:23 |
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| schestowitz | But everyone is fooling everyone. | Feb 22 15:23 |
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| oiaohm | mortgages here are highly regulateed. | Feb 22 15:24 |
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| schestowitz | I actually wonder how many technology companies like Microsoft and Novell will buckle under the load. They already make visits to their banks to check that they have something in there. | Feb 22 15:24 |
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| oiaohm | So most property dips don't set off problems. | Feb 22 15:24 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: what do you base this on? | Feb 22 15:24 |
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| oiaohm | Usa no limits you could loan 100 percent of value of property. | Feb 22 15:25 |
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| oiaohm | That is not allowed here. | Feb 22 15:25 |
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| schestowitz | According to Microsoft, Windows security is highly regulated | Feb 22 15:25 |
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| schestowitz | According to Rupert, Fox delivers the news | Feb 22 15:25 |
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| oiaohm | 20 percent of the property must be paid for when it aquired. | Feb 22 15:25 |
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| oiaohm | So at worst for bank is 80 percent of value lost. | Feb 22 15:26 |
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| schestowitz | They can reclaim the property | Feb 22 15:26 |
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| oiaohm | Hopefully it should be able to sell property for 20 percent of the land value. | Feb 22 15:26 |
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| oiaohm | It required a big crunch before bad starts happing. | Feb 22 15:26 |
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| oiaohm | USA went one step into deep dont areas. | Feb 22 15:27 |
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| oiaohm | Some building even if land value did change were moraged to 3 times there land value. | Feb 22 15:27 |
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| oiaohm | In the USA | Feb 22 15:27 |
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| oiaohm | That is basically asking for big boom. | Feb 22 15:27 |
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| schestowitz | Some theorise that the US takes the blame | Feb 22 15:27 |
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| schestowitz | For chain reaction going out of equilibrium in the first place. | Feb 22 15:28 |
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| oiaohm | Credit cards here lack needed regulation. | Feb 22 15:28 |
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| schestowitz | But I don't know about it | Feb 22 15:28 |
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| schestowitz | Pointing fingers it easy. | Feb 22 15:28 |
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| oiaohm | They could set off a chain reaction. | Feb 22 15:28 |
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| oiaohm | Areas in the system not regulated can cause problems. | Feb 22 15:28 |
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| oiaohm | Every country has some sections of there money system that needs fixing. | Feb 22 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | What about chief chef Greespin[sic]? | Feb 22 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | And those who defended him (and still do)? | Feb 22 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | He blamed the 'machines', but he's the one who also encouraged spendings for how long? Decades in the seat? | Feb 22 15:30 |
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| oiaohm | Its not machines. | Feb 22 15:30 |
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| schestowitz | What about other oracles? | Feb 22 15:30 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: computer models | Feb 22 15:30 |
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| oiaohm | Lack of regs allowed this hell to form. | Feb 22 15:30 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe they had the wrong computer models on the computers. XXX rated | Feb 22 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | Asleep at the wheel | Feb 22 15:31 |
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| oiaohm | computers just acted a amplifaction. | Feb 22 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | They have access to a lot of information the public cannot see. | Feb 22 15:31 |
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| oiaohm | Humans in the past caused equal messes. | Feb 22 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | and they convene annually to discuss this stuff, albeit very secretly. | Feb 22 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: well, if you feed the 'computers' nonsene, then nonsense yoy get out | Feb 22 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | It's like 'cooked' research | Feb 22 15:32 |
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| oiaohm | Yep basic you cannot blame a computer. | Feb 22 15:32 |
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| oiaohm | a human screwed up somewhere. | Feb 22 15:32 |
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| schestowitz | Base in on the wants (I want to spend), then your model may actually justify this | Feb 22 15:32 |
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| schestowitz | Self-fulfilling prophecies so to speak | Feb 22 15:32 |
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| oiaohm | USA went threw a process removing regulation after regulation. | Feb 22 15:33 |
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| oiaohm | Until it go to the point that you could put anything in a item traded and traders could not find out what they were buying in selling. | Feb 22 15:33 |
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| oiaohm | Basically you could have been trading in nothingness | Feb 22 15:34 |
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| oiaohm | instead of loans and causes. | Feb 22 15:34 |
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| schestowitz | Yahoo May Overhaul Top Management Next Week, Report Says < http://www.pcworld.com/article/159998/yah... > | Feb 22 15:34 |
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| oiaohm | That is what sent the system down. | Feb 22 15:34 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, and many companies are part of this | Feb 22 15:35 |
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| schestowitz | They paid to settle this fraud | Feb 22 15:35 |
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| oiaohm | Issue here regulators in Australia could not stop Australians from buying it. | Feb 22 15:35 |
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| schestowitz | I don't now many companies closelty | Feb 22 15:35 |
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| schestowitz | But.. | Feb 22 15:35 |
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| schestowitz | Those that I studies did this | Feb 22 15:35 |
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| schestowitz | Novell settled with the SEC | Feb 22 15:35 |
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| schestowitz | As did Microsoft | Feb 22 15:35 |
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| oiaohm | We need a full blown regulation framework. | Feb 22 15:35 |
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| oiaohm | Where trading in secerct items is forbin globally. | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | So they know they commit fraud and they just pay the regulators to be left alone. | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| oiaohm | USA what regulators | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | Had investors had the means, they would be right to sue whoever profited from this over the years | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| oiaohm | That was the issue. | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| oiaohm | Goverment over there had got rid of most of them. | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | People also sold short before the meltdown | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| oiaohm | Again not the cause | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| oiaohm | Just a reaction. | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | The SEC then put an end to it (cure after the plague) | Feb 22 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | That's what happens when the cdompanies are inchanrge of governnance | Feb 22 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | They get rid of their watchers | Feb 22 15:37 |
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| oiaohm | Yep and start a time bomb ticking. | Feb 22 15:37 |
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| oiaohm | That will explode at some point. | Feb 22 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | And Milton Friedman would sing about the wonder of the 'free' market | Feb 22 15:37 |
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| schestowitz | Like the markets 'take care of themselves' | Feb 22 15:38 |
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| *burmas (n=thomas@149-186-112-217.dyn.adsl.belcenter.be) has left #boycottnovell ("Konversation terminated!") | Feb 22 15:38 |
| oiaohm | Ok free does a true free market contain fraud. | Feb 22 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | With another idiotic antitrust regulator on her way, apparently. | Feb 22 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | "free" means many things | Feb 22 15:38 |
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| oiaohm | Fraud and free markets really don't go hand and hand. | Feb 22 15:38 |
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| schestowitz | In English anyway | Feb 22 15:38 |
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| oiaohm | If people are tricking other people out of there money for nothing. | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | Like "open" | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| oiaohm | People will stop investing. | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| oiaohm | Ie that kind of fraud. | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | They already do | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| oiaohm | So market fails. | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | http://finance.yahoo.com/ | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| oiaohm | Regulators job is basically to reduce that. | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | Journal Register files for bankruptcy protection < http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090221/journal_regi... > | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| oiaohm | So there has to be real items on the other side. | Feb 22 15:39 |
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| oiaohm | Or that the invester knows how much trouble they are getting into. | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| oiaohm | Regulators don't have to interfer in market actions as such. | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| oiaohm | Just prevent lieing. | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2008... | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | "Other recent jewelery bankruptcies include: | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | Lexington Jewelers | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | Luxury Ventures LLC | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | Lexington Jewelers Exchange Inc. | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | Four Points Corp. | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | Diastar Inc. | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | OTC International Ltd. | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | L.I.D. Ltd. | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| schestowitz | " | Feb 22 15:40 |
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| oiaohm | Hmm why are they going under. | Feb 22 15:41 |
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| oiaohm | Don't they have gold reserves | Feb 22 15:41 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. | Feb 22 15:41 |
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| oiaohm | Most of ours here are not in any trouble. | Feb 22 15:41 |
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| schestowitz | Well, they need a meltdown if you know what I mean | Feb 22 15:41 |
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| schestowitz | Not *that* sort of meltdown | Feb 22 15:41 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: good. | Feb 22 15:41 |
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| oiaohm | I am being serous here. Jewellers here must have so much in reserves like banks. | Feb 22 15:42 |
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| oiaohm | If they don't they are not allowed to buy and sell gold to make jewellery. | Feb 22 15:43 |
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| schestowitz | Is it just gold that's valuable? | Feb 22 15:43 |
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| schestowitz | I mean, it's the products that make the worth | Feb 22 15:44 |
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| oiaohm | Bullion. | Feb 22 15:44 |
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| schestowitz | Billiob? | Feb 22 15:44 |
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| oiaohm | Raw tradeable gold. | Feb 22 15:44 |
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| schestowitz | Turns out the national debt in the UK is 3 trillion dollars | Feb 22 15:44 |
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| oiaohm | Either in ouch coins or bars | Feb 22 15:44 |
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| oiaohm | they must have reservses. | Feb 22 15:44 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: well, fine then but it comes back to debates like "what is currency"? | Feb 22 15:44 |
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| schestowitz | I mean, national resources like oil are the Holy Grail. | Feb 22 15:44 |
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| schestowitz | So large countries want energy, which is turn can also product food ('human' fuel) | Feb 22 15:45 |
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| oiaohm | AUD is street currency here. | Feb 22 15:45 |
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| oiaohm | Once you start trading the base currency is gold. | Feb 22 15:45 |
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| oiaohm | still after all these years. | Feb 22 15:45 |
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| schestowitz | Well, maybe the bankruptcy protection plan can involve paying in gold, who knows? | Feb 22 15:46 |
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| schestowitz | bankruptcy != shutting down | Feb 22 15:46 |
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| oiaohm | Here they would not be going under. | Feb 22 15:46 |
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| oiaohm | As so as they have to it there reserves they are basically stoped from trading. | Feb 22 15:46 |
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| schestowitz | It's already down under :-) | Feb 22 15:46 |
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| schestowitz | AU | Feb 22 15:46 |
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| schestowitz | "The pace of hiring at Microsoft continues to slow." < http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microso... > | Feb 22 15:48 |
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| Balrog | hello everyone | Feb 22 16:03 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, what's up? | Feb 22 16:03 |
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| Balrog | not too much | Feb 22 16:03 |
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| Balrog | saw this? http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?si... | Feb 22 16:04 |
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| *Mr (i=5aca0d50@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7e3ecf2e39fe5ee0) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 22 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Bunch of < http://jonesday.com/ > arseholes < http://jonesday.com/ > eat choke < http://jonesday.com/ > :-) | Feb 22 16:09 |
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| *Mr is now known as Guest87775 | Feb 22 16:09 |
| Balrog | yes. :/ | Feb 22 16:09 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, Mr. | Feb 22 16:09 |
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| schestowitz | What happened? | Feb 22 16:09 |
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| schestowitz | BTW, Mandriva updated to Firefox3 today (finally). It's a lot faster and quite nice indeed | Feb 22 16:09 |
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| Guest87775 | had to do some diy | Feb 22 16:09 |
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| schestowitz | It broke compatibility with a few plugins I liked | Feb 22 16:10 |
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| Balrog | yes. FF3 is superior. Which plugins? | Feb 22 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | had to do some do..? | Feb 22 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: Googlebar for started | Feb 22 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | FF3 won't even allow it to be installed for security reasons | Feb 22 16:10 |
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| Balrog | the official one? There should be an update. | Feb 22 16:10 |
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| Balrog | 'security reasons'? interesting | Feb 22 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | My old theme is not compatible either, so I 'shopped' for some new ones | Feb 22 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | I'd rather it just used Qt and inherited the properties from KDE settings. | Feb 22 16:11 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: Firefox thing... not Google's fault. I don't like using GOogle's wares | Feb 22 16:11 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 22 16:11 |
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| Balrog | KDE4.2 is nice. | Feb 22 16:11 |
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| Balrog | Yeah, I know.... | Feb 22 16:12 |
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| Balrog | though Google Gears is FOSS, right? | Feb 22 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | Is it alive? | Feb 22 16:12 |
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| schestowitz | Practically? | Feb 22 16:12 |
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| Balrog | yeah Offline Gmail uses it | Feb 22 16:13 |
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| Balrog | among other things | Feb 22 16:13 |
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| schestowitz | There's this silly firm strutting for quite some time under the slogan/banner "Cheaper than Open Source?" http://www.live-pr.com/en/cheaper-than-open... | Feb 22 16:14 |
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| schestowitz | There's some new meme that justified the fact that FOSS is cheaper | Feb 22 16:14 |
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| schestowitz | But they try to counter this with proprietary wares | Feb 22 16:14 |
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| Balrog | it would be even cheaper if the software was FOSS | Feb 22 16:14 |
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| Balrog | true, the hardware could be proprietary, and they still would make money. | Feb 22 16:14 |
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| Guest87775 | hey roy i may have to forgoe my gym trip ce soir, i am being commandeered into bathroom diy duties by she who must be obeyed...grrr | Feb 22 16:14 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. | Feb 22 16:15 |
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| schestowitz | Well, I'll be there at 6 anyway | Feb 22 16:15 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: not if they obey GPLv3 maybe... Tivoisation | Feb 22 16:16 |
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| Balrog | I didn't mean that way | Feb 22 16:16 |
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| Guest87775 | if i get chance i will pop across, i am involved in a big sealant contract, very messy | Feb 22 16:16 |
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| zer0c00l | schestowitz: this weekend we have conducted a two day workshop on Gnu/Linux and foss technologies :) | Feb 22 16:16 |
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| Balrog | make their hardware somehow unique that people will buy it | Feb 22 16:16 |
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| Balrog | :) | Feb 22 16:16 |
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| schestowitz | Guest87775: come back later. | Feb 22 16:17 |
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| Balrog | maybe dependent on one of those things called a real patent (not the software type) | Feb 22 16:17 |
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| schestowitz | It's always active | Feb 22 16:17 |
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| schestowitz | zer0c00l: Fedora? | Feb 22 16:17 |
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| zer0c00l | we used fedora | Feb 22 16:17 |
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| zer0c00l | also distributed ubuntu | Feb 22 16:17 |
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| Guest87775 | we need to meet up and go for a kebab sometime Roy, now that i know about this room i can contact you to make arrangements in the week, this is very handy:) | Feb 22 16:17 |
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| zer0c00l | addressed 370 people | Feb 22 16:18 |
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| zer0c00l | all are students | Feb 22 16:18 |
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| schestowitz | Guest87775: yes, faster than E-mail | Feb 22 16:18 |
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| zer0c00l | Engineering,arts and science | Feb 22 16:18 |
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| schestowitz | E-mail is rendered dead by spam | Feb 22 16:18 |
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| Guest87775 | lol | Feb 22 16:18 |
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| schestowitz | Mike, next week is importanty | Feb 22 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | Layoffs I hear.. | Feb 22 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | Including at Novell | Feb 22 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | Which, as the name of this channel suggests, is very relevant to the discussion | Feb 22 16:19 |
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| Guest87775 | i sense that this week is going to be a big one, you're right | Feb 22 16:19 |
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| Balrog | These layoffs suck. The marketing people are laying off some of the best programmers / engineers / etc | Feb 22 16:19 |
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| Balrog | and the products suffer | Feb 22 16:19 |
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| schestowitz | UK and Ireland will get the big axe too from Novell... Germany probably the most | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| Guest87775 | true, i've had to say goodbye to some good men (and women) | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: same in Novell | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | They hire marketing people | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | While laying off engineers | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| Balrog | yeah. The wrong way to do things | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| Balrog | D: | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | Trom Spiner (??) from ZDNET grilled Novell UK's boss last week | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | it was amusing to see McCarry answering so tactless | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | Saying layoffs are not a big dead | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| Balrog | remember what happened when Apple was run by marketing people | Feb 22 16:20 |
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| schestowitz | Then the interviewer says "THEY ARE to those who lose jobs | Feb 22 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | So the new Novell manage also says they added sales people | Feb 22 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | So Tom replies by saying, "don't you need people to also develop products?" (not exact quote) | Feb 22 16:21 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: Apple is STILL run by marketing (maybe not people), no? | Feb 22 16:22 |
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| schestowitz | The whole business is also based on silencing critics | Feb 22 16:22 |
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| Balrog | well not like in the late 80's and 90's when the product fell apart because of lack of engineering | Feb 22 16:23 |
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| schestowitz | Guest87775: I'm not sure gym is even a priority anyway | Feb 22 16:23 |
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| Balrog | especially with the OS | Feb 22 16:23 |
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| Balrog | remember Pink, Taligent, and Copland and all? | Feb 22 16:23 |
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| Balrog | all vaporware | Feb 22 16:23 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: I can't remember | Feb 22 16:23 |
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| schestowitz | I'm too young to know it 'first ahnd' | Feb 22 16:24 |
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| schestowitz | This reminds me that I need to do Comes later this year | Feb 22 16:24 |
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| schestowitz | There's lots of stuff there that was never made publicly accessible, just to lawyers at best... until settlement | Feb 22 16:24 |
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| Balrog | well then read up on it. Yes, Apple isn't perfect, but their history tells a lot about what happens to companies that conduct business based on marketing | Feb 22 16:24 |
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| Balrog | I'm younger than you, believe it or not :p | Feb 22 16:25 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is revving up the marketing side these days | Feb 22 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | It hired a London-based firm and another one from Yorkshire | Feb 22 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | They will try to game search engines | Feb 22 16:26 |
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| Balrog | heh. marketing over engineering | Feb 22 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is also polluting YouTube now.. | Feb 22 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: Perception over truth | Feb 22 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | Let me find something | Feb 22 16:26 |
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| Balrog | that too. Except that it's working less and less. | Feb 22 16:27 |
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| Balrog | When you have a product that sucks, no amount of marketing will get the majority of people to buy it | Feb 22 16:27 |
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| Balrog | there will be a few who will | Feb 22 16:27 |
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| Balrog | though | Feb 22 16:27 |
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| schestowitz | Never mind, I can't find it.. http://images.google.com/images?gbv... | Feb 22 16:28 |
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| schestowitz | There's a nice image I have in mind for symbolising distribution | Feb 22 16:28 |
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| schestowitz | Vista7 is all distortion, much like Vista was | Feb 22 16:28 |
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| Balrog | certainly | Feb 22 16:28 |
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| Balrog | that's why even though the media may make it out to be a great OS, people probably won't be impressed. | Feb 22 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft inernal E-mails (2005-2006): "it's a pig... I can't install it, etc etc." In public: "Bill Gates wants you to write for "Show us your wow"" | Feb 22 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | Wow | Feb 22 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | Wow Wow.. and they spread the perception that people are all saying "wow" | Feb 22 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | Half a billion dollars spent on this at the time. | Feb 22 16:29 |
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| Balrog | but people aren't. Everyone hates Windows and Vista | Feb 22 16:29 |
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| Balrog | well not everyone, but a good majority | Feb 22 16:29 |
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| schestowitz | Almost everyone | Feb 22 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, beat me to it | Feb 22 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | Selection for truth,.. | Feb 22 16:30 |
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| Balrog | yeah. There are always going to be some fanatics for each platform | Feb 22 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | MS needs to find the feeble or biased and amplify those voices. | Feb 22 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | Same as in political news | Feb 22 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | You choose magnitude for each factor among the set of facts | Feb 22 16:30 |
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| schestowitz | Like reporting deaths only on the side of US tropps | Feb 22 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | But never Iraqi civilians | Feb 22 16:31 |
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| Balrog | yeah. :( | Feb 22 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | Show 9/11 widows (nothing to do wit Iraq), but not Iraqi kids burned by US napalm (illegal weapon) | Feb 22 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | The propaganda model is alarmingly strong. < http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman%20/... > | Feb 22 16:32 |
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| schestowitz | "Propaganda campaigns in general have been closely attuned to elite interests. The Red scare of I9I9-20 served well to abort the union organizing drive that followed World War I in the steel and other industries. The Truman-McCarthy Red scare helped inaugurate the Cold War and the permanent war economy, and it also served to weaken the progressive coalition of the New Deal years." | Feb 22 16:33 |
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| schestowitz | "The anti-Communist control mechanism reaches through the system to exercise a profound influence on the mass media. In normal times as well as in periods of Red scares, issues tend to be framed in terms of a dichotomized world of Communist and anti-Communist .." | Feb 22 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | "...powers, with gains and losses allocated to contesting sides, and rooting for "our side" considered an entirely legitimate news practice. It is the mass media that identify, create, and push into the limelight a Joe McCarthy, Arkady Shevchenko, and Claire Sterling and Robert Leiken, or an Annie Kriegel and Pierre Daix. The ideology and religion of anticommunism is a potent filter..." | Feb 22 16:34 |
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| Balrog | yeah. | Feb 22 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | Think about certain news sites versus others | Feb 22 16:34 |
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| Balrog | yes definitely | Feb 22 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | They just need to vilify the 'bad ones' like Al Jazeera and glorify Bill O'Reilly. | Feb 22 16:34 |
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| Balrog | the internet has changed this a lot as it's less controlled | Feb 22 16:34 |
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| Balrog | nearly uncontrolled | Feb 22 16:34 |
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| schestowitz | Let me find something | Feb 22 16:35 |
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| schestowitz | About Microsoft attacking Groklaw | Feb 22 16:36 |
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| Balrog | I wouldn't be surprised about that | Feb 22 16:36 |
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| schestowitz | I can't find it | Feb 22 16:37 |
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| schestowitz | There: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/20/mi... | Feb 22 16:38 |
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| schestowitz | They usually attack the critics using proxies like Enderle, whom they used to attack PJ personally (Enderle is paid by Microsoft and talks to the Ballmer Bully) | Feb 22 16:40 |
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| Balrog | heh...proof anywhere? | Feb 22 16:40 |
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| Balrog | yeah I knew that part | Feb 22 16:40 |
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| Balrog | They obviously are making claims without backing... | Feb 22 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, there's proof | Feb 22 16:42 |
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| Balrog | that IBM is behind Groklaw | Feb 22 16:42 |
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| Balrog | that's the proof I'm asking for | Feb 22 16:42 |
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| Balrog | I know about Enderle | Feb 22 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | Mail to ballmer: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/23/ro... | Feb 22 16:42 |
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| Balrog | yeah I know that | Feb 22 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | Enderle and Microsoft's Waggener Edstrom: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/1... | Feb 22 16:43 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: they manufactured stuff like ibiblio is among many funders of ibiblio | Feb 22 16:43 |
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| Balrog | heh\ | Feb 22 16:43 |
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| schestowitz | At best they could say that IBM is one among many companies that cover PJ's hosting bill | Feb 22 16:43 |
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| Balrog | I see. | Feb 22 16:44 |
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| schestowitz | Which would be worth like.. what? A few dollars? | Feb 22 16:44 |
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| Balrog | depending on traffic, it could be a few hundred, I suppose | Feb 22 16:44 |
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| Balrog | which is still small change | Feb 22 16:44 |
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| Balrog | in that world | Feb 22 16:44 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: well, just IBM's share though. | Feb 22 16:45 |
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| Balrog | ok. | Feb 22 16:45 |
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| Balrog | also what about IE being stuck at 6 for as long as it was, while Firefox and the competitiors moved quickly...... | Feb 22 16:46 |
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| schestowitz | Even if a few tens of dollars' worth, that hardly compare to the value if writing Groklaw like 100 hours/week | Feb 22 16:46 |
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| Balrog | yeah. | Feb 22 16:46 |
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| schestowitz | I think IE6 was designed to freeze the Web | Feb 22 16:47 |
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| Balrog | probably. | Feb 22 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | Make it crippled, bring less diruption (aka innovation) | Feb 22 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | See Netscape | Feb 22 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | See Netscape memos | Feb 22 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | They knew Web-based apps were coming | Feb 22 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | in 1995 | Feb 22 16:47 |
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| Balrog | Funny thing that MS dropped IE for Mac and allowed Safari to move (even though it had problems early on, it went a long way) | Feb 22 16:47 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.... | Feb 22 16:47 |
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| Balrog | yeah. | Feb 22 16:48 |
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| schestowitz | They had to give IE to mac | Feb 22 16:49 |
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| schestowitz | Attackon Netscape | Feb 22 16:49 |
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| schestowitz | I had Netscape on a Mac (OS 9) at work | Feb 22 16:49 |
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| schestowitz | Then the lousy IE too | Feb 22 16:49 |
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| Balrog | I know, but why did they terminate it by 2002 or so? | Feb 22 16:49 |
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| Balrog | when Safari became available | Feb 22 16:49 |
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| schestowitz | Apple-MS hug video: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/02/1... | Feb 22 16:49 |
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| Balrog | hmm. WordPerfect was one of the best word processors for Mac. WAY better than Word. But they quit making it like in 98 | Feb 22 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | See http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.... | Feb 22 16:51 |
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| Balrog | The IE part has been broken for a while now | Feb 22 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | I still need to make posts from these | Feb 22 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe later in the year | Feb 22 16:51 |
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| Balrog | ok. | Feb 22 16:51 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php?... | Feb 22 16:52 |
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| Balrog | WordPerfect for Windows wasn't as good, by the way | Feb 22 16:52 |
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| Balrog | for Mac was awesome | Feb 22 16:52 |
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| Balrog | heh ... "The HTML-mode is also interesting. We do hope to avoid that modal state, but it does resonate .." | Feb 22 16:52 |
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| Balrog | I LOVED show codes | Feb 22 16:52 |
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| Balrog | Word never had it. | Feb 22 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | Some people still use WP for this reason | Feb 22 16:53 |
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| Balrog | I know. | Feb 22 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | Even on low-end terminals | Feb 22 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | They need to see the codes | Feb 22 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | To Microsoft, it's a no-go | Feb 22 16:53 |
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| schestowitz | Like transparent PNG support | Feb 22 16:54 |
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| Balrog | yeah. :( | Feb 22 16:54 |
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| schestowitz | Anything useful like bottom-posting | Feb 22 16:54 |
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| Balrog | BTW, MS quit IE for mac June 13, 2003 | Feb 22 16:54 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/16/mic... | Feb 22 16:54 |
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| schestowitz | "Lock the doors and lock up your girls and daughters.. I saw a top-poster... must be some MS shenanigan in town" | Feb 22 16:55 |
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| Balrog | heh. not surprised | Feb 22 16:58 |
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| Balrog | Interesting that IE for Mac used a different layout engine | Feb 22 17:00 |
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| *schestowitz back at 8 | Feb 22 17:10 |
| Balrog | k | Feb 22 17:10 |
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| Balrog | 8 what time | Feb 22 17:11 |
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| Balrog | ? | Feb 22 17:11 |
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| Balrog | (timezone*) | Feb 22 17:11 |
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| schestowitz | gmt | Feb 22 17:11 |
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| Balrog | k | Feb 22 17:11 |
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| zer0c00l | bye | Feb 22 17:13 |
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| zer0c00l | good night | Feb 22 17:13 |
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| Balrog | bye | Feb 22 17:13 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: you misspelled "GROKLOW" | Feb 22 18:44 |
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| Balrog | in "Novell News Summary - Part IV: SCO Update, Report Coming Up, Teaming Deal" | Feb 22 18:44 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks million, Balrog. Funny typo, fixed now. | Feb 22 19:28 |
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| Balrog | np | Feb 22 19:28 |
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| *schestowitz goes through 600 news items about MS now | Feb 22 19:28 |
| Balrog | those suck when people quote it and put [sic] after it | Feb 22 19:28 |
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| Balrog | heh :/ | Feb 22 19:28 |
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| schestowitz | It was a name and preceded by hypertext hybrid, so I could spot the typo | Feb 22 19:29 |
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| Balrog | yes. | Feb 22 19:29 |
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| schestowitz | I usually add the first letter 'in line' to test the words for typos. It's common. | Feb 22 19:29 |
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| Balrog | I see. | Feb 22 19:30 |
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| Balrog | a is easy to confuse with o in many cases | Feb 22 19:30 |
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| schestowitz | You can't even visually discern to see the typo because there's markup in there, so the eye doesn't catch it | Feb 22 19:30 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 22 19:30 |
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| schestowitz | I see that Microsoft Vista reappears because of a SP. | Feb 22 19:31 |
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| schestowitz | They should really do better work hiding the V word. It's bad for business. They need to beat the vapourware drum instead. | Feb 22 19:31 |
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| schestowitz | "V" for vapourware, not for "Vista" | Feb 22 19:31 |
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| Balrog | yeah. Though even that kind of marketing will eventually fail | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: what's up Mike? | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | I spoke to SteveO | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| MrMidland | howdey Roy | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | He knows what's happening | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| MrMidland | what he say? | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | Well.... | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | He knows the historical background now | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | Some people don't know why you're gloating about it | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | My theory is that it's because you knew about it in advnace and warned people | Feb 22 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | Now you deserve some credit | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| Balrog | wait who you're talking to? | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| schestowitz | Credit not in *THAT* sence :-) | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| schestowitz | *sense | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| MrMidland | lol | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: to Mike | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| Balrog | I see now :) | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| schestowitz | Friend from over here. | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| Balrog | o. | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| Balrog | ok * | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: Mr. Softie (Mcirosoft) is going down | Feb 22 19:33 |
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| MrMidland | are they? | Feb 22 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | What do you think of your new... Vista? | Feb 22 19:34 |
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| MrMidland | it hasn't crashed yet | Feb 22 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: gradually, but many others do too | Feb 22 19:34 |
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| MrMidland | i bought a new pc from aldi...a medion | Feb 22 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | Here in this channel we promote Free(dom) software. | Feb 22 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | You saw my machine, right? | Feb 22 19:34 |
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| MrMidland | yeah | Feb 22 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | Windows is given for mere $5 on some machines just so that people don't preload GNU/Linux | Feb 22 19:34 |
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| Balrog | For me, windows works for like 3-6 months. At first, well, then eventually I need to reformat | Feb 22 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | So that they know nothing about options.;.. other than "Mac" and "PC" | Feb 22 19:35 |
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| Balrog | I don't use Windows as a primary OS anymore because of that | Feb 22 19:35 |
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| Balrog | and Mac is tied to hardware. | Feb 22 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: yeah... | Feb 22 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | I saw like 8 headlines just now about Ballmer's remark about Apple | Feb 22 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | "Hey, we're criminals... but Apple is less open" | Feb 22 19:35 |
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| MrMidland | i hear a lot of people dont like Vista, i am not an expert though, | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| Balrog | decent hardware | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| Balrog | heh ... apple is less open .... true with their hardware platform, that's for sure | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: Vista on strong h/w might be tolerable. | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| MrMidland | how can you tell what machine i'm running | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | But also to those who needn't rely on specialised apps | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| Balrog | yeah but it sucks in other ways | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | Likewise, Linux is great for such users | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| Balrog | I had OS X 10.5 running well on a Dual-450 MHz G4 computer | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: you told me. You bought one from Aldi | Feb 22 19:36 |
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| MrMidland | could recommend a good anti virus (free) | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: Linux | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| Balrog | How big is your hard drive? | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | It uninstalls Windows though | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| MrMidland | 640gb | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| Balrog | http://wubi-installer.org/ | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| Balrog | use that | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| MrMidland | thx | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| Balrog | that's linux within windows | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| Balrog | won't mess with the windows at all. | Feb 22 19:37 |
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| schestowitz | Yes. | Feb 22 19:38 |
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| Balrog | so "It uninstalls Windows though" won't be the case. | Feb 22 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | And it's free. | Feb 22 19:38 |
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| Balrog | yeah. | Feb 22 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: I was joking. | Feb 22 19:38 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 22 19:38 |
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| MrMidland | ok i might try this, but i'd need Roy to be on hand if anything goes wrong | Feb 22 19:38 |
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| Balrog | MrMidland: I've done tests. Nothing will get messed up with your windows install. | Feb 22 19:39 |
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| MrMidland | my computer is my job and i am very green in these areas | Feb 22 19:39 |
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| Balrog | If you crash Linux, reboot into Windows, go to Add/Remove Programs, and take it out | Feb 22 19:39 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: Microsoft Slammed With Suit Over Vista-To-XP Downgrade Fees < http://news.ebrandz.com/microsoft/2009/2445... > | Feb 22 19:39 |
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| Balrog | it's just another application :) | Feb 22 19:39 |
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| Balrog | I saw that | Feb 22 19:39 |
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| MrMidland | ok thx | Feb 22 19:39 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: Fedora is nice but there's no wubi-style installer for it | Feb 22 19:40 |
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| MrMidland | so are microsoft going to be the next big shoe to fall do you reckon? | Feb 22 19:40 |
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| schestowitz | There's the Debian installer for Windows | Feb 22 19:40 |
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| Balrog | Oh btw, Wubi doesn't even mess with the Vista bootloader | Feb 22 19:40 |
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| schestowitz | Dunno about Fedora. Nothing I can... | Feb 22 19:40 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, maybe there was something | Feb 22 19:40 |
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| schestowitz | Hold on. | Feb 22 19:40 |
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| Balrog | well, too close to Ubuntu | Feb 22 19:40 |
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| Balrog | I want fedora | Feb 22 19:40 |
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| Balrog | so you don't have to worry about those recent updates that rewrite the bootloader, as Wubi doesn't touch it :) | Feb 22 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | Fedora doesn't do that yet, I think.. http://www.howtoforge.com/une... | Feb 22 19:41 |
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| Balrog | still requires resizing | Feb 22 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: no, not the next one | Feb 22 19:41 |
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| Balrog | interesting | Feb 22 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | But somewhere along the line | Feb 22 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | They enter debt soon | Feb 22 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | But they claim to have assets... just not physical ones | Feb 22 19:41 |
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| schestowitz | They have.. patents | Feb 22 19:42 |
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| schestowitz | And code... | Feb 22 19:42 |
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| schestowitz | I.e. tissue paper assets. | Feb 22 19:42 |
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| Balrog | yeah patents which get thrown out in Bilski | Feb 22 19:42 |
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| MrMidland | i suppose with money being tight around the world, people might be more inclined to look at cheaper/better alternatives to Windows | Feb 22 19:42 |
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| schestowitz | They now rely on corrupting polititian into honouring these.. in countries like India | Feb 22 19:42 |
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| Balrog | code .... well they're laying off people who do stuff and hiring marketers | Feb 22 19:42 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: aye | Feb 22 19:42 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: it's not about price | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| Balrog | like their whole simulation 'game' division | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| schestowitz | It's about controlling your PC | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft owns the software on your PC | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| schestowitz | They can disable it | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| Balrog | yeah. Remember TPM and Palladium? | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| schestowitz | They prevent you from playing your music... when they'll decide to | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| MrMidland | remotley? | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| Balrog | We're all lucky it never went through | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| schestowitz | In China they did this... Black Screens of Death | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| Balrog | Yes, if it's from MS or uses MS technology | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| schestowitz | They also put back doors there for the Spooks | Feb 22 19:43 |
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| Balrog | (in the case of music, WMA DRM; in the case of Windows, WGA) | Feb 22 19:44 |
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| schestowitz | To 'save' the children | Feb 22 19:44 |
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| MrMidland | its a dirty business | Feb 22 19:44 |
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| Balrog | it sucks that all the good games are for windows though | Feb 22 19:44 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: the point is, Apple and Mcirosoft make it more draconian over time | Feb 22 19:44 |
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| Balrog | with Microsoft by far the worst | Feb 22 19:44 |
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| schestowitz | They work along with other companies and authorities to put their own 'features' in the O/S. | Feb 22 19:44 |
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| MrMidland | these big corporations have some very influential lobbyists | Feb 22 19:44 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 22 19:44 |
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| MrMidland | like Monsanto too | Feb 22 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | boycottnovell investigates this | Feb 22 19:45 |
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| MrMidland | and the Aspartame scandal | Feb 22 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | Giving names and describing those white-collar crimes | Feb 22 19:45 |
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| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-46-198.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 22 19:45 |
| Balrog | yeah. It's always good to check the references though :p | Feb 22 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | Like the United States military, companies like Microsoft also send out people to spread disinformation on the Web | Feb 22 19:45 |
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| MrMidland | its good you work hard to expose corporate criminality | Feb 22 19:45 |
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| schestowitz | And moles to impact media coverage | Feb 22 19:46 |
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| schestowitz | This is what of the more unique aspects that the site studies and publishes information abotu | Feb 22 19:46 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: The problem I see with ooxml is that it's already widespread | Feb 22 19:46 |
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| Balrog | it's already too widely used | Feb 22 19:47 |
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| Balrog | That's fortunately not (yet) the case with Silverlight | Feb 22 19:48 |
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| MrMidland | Hey Roy, I read this about Soros's latest prognosis for the economy | Feb 22 19:48 |
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| MrMidland | NEW YORK (Reuters) - Renowned investor George Soros said on Friday the world financial system has effectively disintegrated, adding that there is yet no prospect of a near-term resolution to the crisis. | Feb 22 19:49 |
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| MrMidland | http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO... | Feb 22 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | URL? | Feb 22 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks. | Feb 22 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | He recently said he made money from the crisis | Feb 22 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | As far as I know | Feb 22 19:49 |
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| schestowitz | I saw it in Glyn Moody's twits | Feb 22 19:49 |
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| MrMidland | he sees no bottom for world financial collapse :( | Feb 22 19:50 |
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| schestowitz | Fiesta time.. :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkc... | Feb 22 19:50 |
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| MrMidland | the floyd | Feb 22 19:51 |
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| schestowitz | It's a good documentary. | Feb 22 19:51 |
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| schestowitz | Watch it sometime | Feb 22 19:51 |
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| MrMidland | i am watching it now matey | Feb 22 19:51 |
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| schestowitz | There's another one that's not just a collage | Feb 22 19:51 |
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| schestowitz | here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SV_mvc4zKw | Feb 22 19:52 |
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| schestowitz | Not a mashup this one but a full documentary that's independent and informative. | Feb 22 19:53 |
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| MrMidland | i've heard about this experiment before didnt they stop it because the people were becoming to cruel | Feb 22 19:53 |
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| Balrog | so what do you think about this wide use of ooxml (docx, xlsx, pptx)?? | Feb 22 19:53 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: which one? The prison? | Feb 22 19:53 |
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| schestowitz | I don't remember what's where in the video. | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: those who spread it need to be informed | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | OOXML is fraud | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| MrMidland | yes itws quite a well known study | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| Balrog | too many don't care | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | But many people don't want to know about it | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| Balrog | :[ | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | Yea | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | You beat me to it | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| MrMidland | in denial | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | Explain about ODF | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | MrMidland: people don't care about crime | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | They are taught to be careless ans stupid | Feb 22 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | Some people carry on paying criminals | Feb 22 19:55 |
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| MrMidland | and consumerised | Feb 22 19:55 |
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| Balrog | I'd prefer if people send me stuff as RTF or PDF. ODF is great, but too many people can't open it. :( | Feb 22 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | And they help those who try to regulate | Feb 22 19:55 |
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| Balrog | ironically, even DOC is better supported than DOCX or ODF | Feb 22 19:55 |
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| Balrog | :( | Feb 22 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | Did you know that Microsoft hired a lobbying guns (or several) to write support letter on behalf of dead people? | Feb 22 19:55 |
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