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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 22nd, 2009 - Part 3


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schestowitz*letter; *gunFeb 22 19:55
BalroghehFeb 22 19:55
Balrognot supportFeb 22 19:55
Balrognot surprised *Feb 22 19:56
BalrogWhat I see is that people don't care what format they use, they just use the defaultFeb 22 19:57
schestowitzThings change because people look for answers.Feb 22 19:57
BalrogI had one professor tell a student (who had a Mac that can't open ooxml) that he should just use a school computer to re-save the filesFeb 22 19:57
schestowitzThey will hopefully be inspired to explore how their back-turning on corruption bites them in the rear later.Feb 22 19:58
Balrogobviously ignoranceFeb 22 19:58
Balrogyeah. That's what I tell people. "Someday you'll feel burned by MS"Feb 22 19:58
schestowitz 22 19:59
Balrogthey (a) don't think so or (b) don't careFeb 22 19:59
schestowitzThey are well trainedFeb 22 19:59
schestowitz"Mind your own business"Feb 22 19:59
schestowitzThe ResonsibleAdults(R) will take care of the restFeb 22 19:59
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schestowitzIf Greenspan says "buy a house", then go get a mortgageFeb 22 20:00
schestowitzIf people say "Windows is the standard", the complyFeb 22 20:00
schestowitz[never mind DRM, back doors, viruses, etc]Feb 22 20:00
schestowitz /the/then/Feb 22 20:00
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Balrogwell people consider Windows the standard. OS X challenges it, but only to a point (it's tied to hardware)Feb 22 20:01
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schestowitzNews: Downturn dilemma: Foreign professionals and worker visas < >Feb 22 20:01
Balrogpeople need to get used to something that will work on any hardwareFeb 22 20:01
Balroglike LinuxFeb 22 20:01
schestowitz"Locally, Microsoft had more than 1,000 H-1B visas approved for 2008, the fifth-highest for any U.S. employer. Others, like the University of Washington, got approval for 104; Seattle Children's Home for one."Feb 22 20:01
schestowitz"But one ex-Microsoft product manager said she feels no sympathy for them. She was the only person laid off from her group of seven, which included four visa holders — told her role no longer was strategic to the company."Feb 22 20:01
Balrog;/Feb 22 20:01
schestowitz"Recession"? What recession? Microsoft can pay people less for more now, while shafting Americans.Feb 22 20:01
schestowitzBut.. but...Feb 22 20:01
schestowitz BillyG, his dad and Abramoff say that "Americans are stupid" (just not in these words)Feb 22 20:02
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schestowitzSo they need cheap labour, which they claim to be far superiorFeb 22 20:02
schestowitz'Poor' Gates and Abramoff can't afford to pay people's paychecksFeb 22 20:02
Balrogwhat about this class-action "Vista-ready" lawsuit.Feb 22 20:02
Balrog?Feb 22 20:02
BalrogIs it going anywhere?Feb 22 20:02
schestowitzBalrog: it's not clas action nowFeb 22 20:02
schestowitzBut another one is comingFeb 22 20:03
Balrogwasn't it?Feb 22 20:03
schestowitzThey could bribe the judgeFeb 22 20:03
schestowitz2 judges were caught last week for briberyFeb 22 20:03
Balrog:[Feb 22 20:03
schestowitzSo expectedFeb 22 20:03
schestowitzNo, no...Feb 22 20:03
schestowitzWe're taught at schools that judges are SaintsFeb 22 20:03
Balrogthis whole thing sucksFeb 22 20:03
schestowitzAnd corporations are the centre of our society and culture.Feb 22 20:03
schestowitzNEver mind if since the very start early 20th centruty) they were furiously called "return to feudalism"Feb 22 20:04
Balrogthen people should read "Out of Order: Arrogance, Corruption, And Incompetence On The Bench"Feb 22 20:04
schestowitzThen came Standard Oil and other issues over the yearsFeb 22 20:04
Balrogshows how terrible judges often are :/Feb 22 20:04
MrMidlandRockefeller et alFeb 22 20:04
schestowitz"Wal-Mart is good for Americans," they teach us :-) :-)Feb 22 20:04
BalroghehFeb 22 20:04
schestowitzNice little franchise for an American familyFeb 22 20:04
BalrogyahFeb 22 20:05
schestowitzMrMidland: : RockefellerFeb 22 20:05
schestowitzMrMidland: : we're taught at schools they were heroesFeb 22 20:05
schestowitzCharitable great menFeb 22 20:05
schestowitzAt the moment, even thieves like Gates build this image for themselvesFeb 22 20:05
Balrogyeah.Feb 22 20:05
MrMidlandruthlessly ambitious sociopathsFeb 22 20:05
schestowitzRothschild tooFeb 22 20:06
schestowitzThat's why they call it robber barons.Feb 22 20:06
schestowitzFirst they stealFeb 22 20:06
schestowitzPillaging, then rewriting historyFeb 22 20:06
schestowitzMrMidland: did you know that the Midland Hotel uses to be a centre for Nazis or something?Feb 22 20:06
MrMidlandno never knew thatFeb 22 20:07
schestowitzI only recently found this out from hotel staff, assuming he wasn't lied toFeb 22 20:07
Balrogand the government is part of itFeb 22 20:07
schestowitzRemmi told meFeb 22 20:07
MrMidlandi've read a lot about the rothschildsFeb 22 20:07
schestowitz 22 20:07
MrMidlandthey do seem to arouse a lot of suspicionFeb 22 20:07
Balrogread about Harold Pitcairn (book is "Legacy of Wings") ... he was an inventor of helicopter technology (from a rich family) but got ripped off anyway by the large aircraft corporations who had support from the govt.Feb 22 20:08
schestowitzReminds me of those photos of Rumsfeld and Saddam...Feb 22 20:08
schestowitzI think the offsprings of bit families like the rothschilds are still in the detailsFeb 22 20:08
MrMidlandyeah, rarely do these things happen by chanceFeb 22 20:08
schestowitzI occasionally hear about them when I learn about the powerful people that aren't seen much in the mediaFeb 22 20:09
schestowitzSome of their names and occupations don't get coverage because they don't want itFeb 22 20:09
MrMidlandwell there will certainly be lots of young men with plenty of time on their hands, willing to sign up to the american army in the near futureFeb 22 20:09
Balrogand with not enough moneyFeb 22 20:09
schestowitzIn facty, I don't know how much those Frobes listings can be trustedFeb 22 20:09
schestowitzMany people's wealth is deliberarely kept dark and can't be studiedFeb 22 20:10
MrMidlandtrueFeb 22 20:10
schestowitzDidn't they forget about price of Dubai?Feb 22 20:10
schestowitzThey talk about Mr. Slim being the richestFeb 22 20:10
schestowitzPrince of Dubai has like TEN TIMES as much wealthFeb 22 20:10
Balrogyeah definitelyFeb 22 20:10
MrMidlandi hear they have wealth beyond our imagination, richer than some countries, trillionsFeb 22 20:10
schestowitzSo there's this 'insisible spectrum' of powerFeb 22 20:10
MrMidlandan invisible guiding handFeb 22 20:10
schestowitzAnd Barcleys got scooped by him (a portion anyway)Feb 22 20:10
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schestowitzMrMidland: Singapore?Feb 22 20:11
schestowitzSaudi Arabia has utterly terrible distribution of wealth, but the White House is friends with those who possess itFeb 22 20:11
MrMidlandthe markets could be being driven down by design, i wonderFeb 22 20:12
schestowitzThat too is a theoryFeb 22 20:12
schestowitzThat we're looted wealth-wise just as "war on terrorism" is used to take rtights awayFeb 22 20:12
MrMidlandthe biggest dose of poo for the fan has NOT arrived yet.Feb 22 20:12
schestowitzActually, the former enable duppression of protest or dissent against the latterFeb 22 20:12
schestowitzIf you are given the condition to make a police state, then it becomes easier to feudalise society a little moreFeb 22 20:13
MrMidlandMaybe this is  planned to fall apart so they can do the final play for world dominion,Feb 22 20:13
schestowitzMrMidland: so I hearFeb 22 20:13
schestowitzBut you can't gloat about this in publicFeb 22 20:13
schestowitzMrMidland: I don't think that's itFeb 22 20:13
MrMidlandyou have to toe the party lineFeb 22 20:13
schestowitzBut power wants to be 'melted' and given to allFeb 22 20:14
schestowitzInternet facilitates itFeb 22 20:14
schestowitzTrasnpaoration tooFeb 22 20:14
schestowitzPeople like Murdoch are poised to loseFeb 22 20:14
schestowitzControl, not just wealthFeb 22 20:14
schestowitzSo the theory goess...Feb 22 20:14
Balrogany plan for world domination will fail.Feb 22 20:14
schestowitzSo by making doomsday scenarios they can change things more radically.Feb 22 20:14
schestowitzLike "war on terrorism" for Web censorshipFeb 22 20:15
MrMidlandthe imagery of the twin towers collapsing, the World Trade Centres, could be quite propheticFeb 22 20:15
schestowitzLikewise, the control of wealth disables many people.Feb 22 20:15
schestowitzMrMidland: not quiteFeb 22 20:15
schestowitzThe War on Terrorism was only redclared thenFeb 22 20:16
schestowitzIt was declared decades earlierFeb 22 20:16
schestowitz"Return to barbarism and all"Feb 22 20:16
schestowitzThe new "us" and "them" gameFeb 22 20:16
schestowitzPost WW2Feb 22 20:16
MrMidlandi read an interesting article explaining a theory that childrens propensity for playing computer games at the expense of reading is not engaging the part of their brain responsible for empathy,Feb 22 20:18
MrMidlandso we are seeing a rise in aspects of selfish behaviour we haven't seen beforeFeb 22 20:18
schestowitzPossible. It's also interesting how they are led to play violent gamesFeb 22 20:18
schestowitzGood and fun games could be made that make them less trigger-happyFeb 22 20:19
schestowitzWas the article you read related to some study from Scotland?Feb 22 20:19
schestowitzThere was one in the BBC (mentioned here like 3 times) about the Internet causing many harms to childrenFeb 22 20:19
MrMidlandreading a book it stated helps a child to put himself in the characters shoes and EMPATHISE with them, as opposed running around and blasting them with machine guns, which has moral issues too i supposeFeb 22 20:19
schestowitzThere's that one too. Hold on.Feb 22 20:20
MrMidlandi'll try and find the link give me a secondFeb 22 20:20
schestowitzThis guy has become notorious: 22 20:20
schestowitzI don't know enough about him to know if it's just a smear campaignFeb 22 20:20
Balrogschestowitz: malformed linkFeb 22 20:21
Balrog 22 20:21
Balrogstill malformed :/Feb 22 20:21
schestowitzBut I can imagine that kids and game makers (even military) would have reasons to resent him. he also made false accusationsFeb 22 20:21
Balrog 22 20:21
schestowitzBalrog: IRC issueFeb 22 20:21
BalrogyeahFeb 22 20:21
schestowitzThe bracketsFeb 22 20:21
BalrogI see.Feb 22 20:21
schestowitzsame in mine.. also the IRC processor (offline)Feb 22 20:21
MrMidlandWhen young men watched violent video games their brain chemistry was affected. Brain activity in the emotional regions of the brain……..was reduced – thus limiting an individual’s capacity for empathy / sympathy and increasing their capacity to eliminate opponents.Feb 22 20:21
MrMidlandKlaus Mathiak - The Psychologyst Vol 18-8 2005Feb 22 20:22
Balrogthen why push violent stuff?Feb 22 20:22
schestowitzWarFeb 22 20:22
schestowitzIt's not a bad thingsFeb 22 20:22
BalroghehFeb 22 20:22
schestowitzNot to everyone anywayFeb 22 20:22
schestowitzSometimes they create warFeb 22 20:22
schestowitzLike WW1 Feb 22 20:22
schestowitzAnd WW2Feb 22 20:22
Balrogviolent games don't appeal to me...Feb 22 20:22
schestowitzIf you read the literature of proagandaFeb 22 20:22
Balrogyeah.Feb 22 20:22
MrMidlanddesensitise the masses to the wrongdoings of government, socially engineering an armyFeb 22 20:22
MrMidlandthat will fight without a conscienceFeb 22 20:23
schestowitzThey ran what they considered "successful" to turn a facifist or apathetic population into one that wants to rip germans' limbs apartFeb 22 20:23
schestowitzNot it's the Arabs that they target (not Russians)Feb 22 20:23
schestowitz*NowFeb 22 20:23
schestowitzStigmatiseFeb 22 20:23
MrMidlandnegative stereotypingFeb 22 20:24
schestowitzLet me find somethingFeb 22 20:24
schestowitzI have some videos ont he subjectFeb 22 20:24
schestowitzActually, Goebbels wrote about this nasty stuff a lot.Feb 22 20:24
schestowitzIt was before WW2 that the US media learned the same methods from the PR industryFeb 22 20:24
schestowitzUses of imagiry and connotationsFeb 22 20:24
schestowitz*imageryFeb 22 20:25
MrMidlandLucien Freud?Feb 22 20:25
MrMidlandSIgmund Freud called it 'The Century of the Self'Feb 22 20:25
schestowitzScholtz?Feb 22 20:25
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schestowitz"Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!" -- Albert EinsteinFeb 22 20:26
MrMidlandHere goes... 22 20:27
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*schestowitz looksFeb 22 20:27
schestowitzGood video, bookmarked for watching in full laterFeb 22 20:30
MrMidlandthxFeb 22 20:30
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MrMidlandHey Royston i gotta make like a banana and split, enjoy the video, my tummy needs (not wants) food:)Feb 22 20:31
Balrogtv is bad for kids tooFeb 22 20:31
Balrogand at least as widespread as gamesFeb 22 20:31
MrMidlandyeah TV tooFeb 22 20:31
schestowitzIt's nice how they show the linking between cars, cigarettes, sexFeb 22 20:31
schestowitzI actually spoke to Nas about this in the gym eariierFeb 22 20:31
MrMidlandthere are a lack of positive role models for children nowadays, so they learn by emulating the value structures and behaviours of whatever they are exposed tooFeb 22 20:32
schestowitzWhat would happen if people called boozing "doping" and "Drunk" "stoned"? It does change how people /feel/ about things.Feb 22 20:32
Balrogdrinking / smoking are just as badFeb 22 20:32
schestowitzMrMidland: another issueFeb 22 20:33
schestowitzReligious people tend to have more kidsFeb 22 20:33
MrMidlandand the poorFeb 22 20:33
schestowitzSo those among people in society who may known how to educate the kids don't have many/anyFeb 22 20:33
schestowitzThey leave education for other people to take care of (teachers, schools, Sony/Konami/PlayStation)Feb 22 20:33
MrMidlandyou could say that, but people with money aren't necessarily better role modelsFeb 22 20:34
schestowitzAnd teachers  are told to "give equal time" to religionFeb 22 20:34
Balrogor not deal with it at allFeb 22 20:34
schestowitzWhy don't we "give equal time" to "World is a disc"?Feb 22 20:34
schestowitzOr ban skiing because it's a dangerous sport just like some drugs are dangerous?Feb 22 20:34
schestowitzMrMidland: I didn't say "money"Feb 22 20:35
schestowitzI said religionFeb 22 20:35
schestowitzNot that I consider it a problemFeb 22 20:35
schestowitzThe problem are social or national, not religiousFeb 22 20:35
schestowitzReligious justifications are side effectsFeb 22 20:35
MrMidlandreligion to me is a form of child abuse, exposing a childs impressionable mind to any given religion, impregnates their mind indellibly at an age when they cannot rationalise the logic if there is any for themself or make up their own mind, it is IMPOSED on them.Feb 22 20:35
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schestowitzIraqis don't dislike Americans because they have McDonaldsFeb 22 20:35
schestowitzOr because they are ChristianFeb 22 20:36
schestowitzIt's because they are /looting/ themFeb 22 20:36
schestowitzBut the justification may come in the form of religious reasoningFeb 22 20:36
Balrogreligion that is a problem is warpedFeb 22 20:36
MrMidlandthe morality side of it can be of benefitFeb 22 20:36
schestowitzMrMidland: yes, I have a video about thatFeb 22 20:36
MrMidlandbut it always comes at the cost of 'killing in the name of'Feb 22 20:37
schestowitz 22 20:37
schestowitzThey could kill in the name of many thingsFeb 22 20:37
schestowitzNot just religionFeb 22 20:37
klutzI'm confused ... what does boycott Novell have to do with Iraq?  Is Microsoft somehow responsible for the war?Feb 22 20:37
schestowitzAtrocities in Congo don't have anything to do with religionFeb 22 20:37
Balrogit becomes a problem when you get to one person being better than another only because of religion, and no other reasonsFeb 22 20:37
schestowitzklutz: no, off topicFeb 22 20:37
Balrog(well no other reasons meaning to justify one person better than another)Feb 22 20:37
schestowitzBalrog: if not religion, the nationality of factionFeb 22 20:38
schestowitzLike families controlling territoryFeb 22 20:38
Balrogthat tooFeb 22 20:38
klutzWhew!  I was afraid this group was more anti-Redmond tan I was.  :-)Feb 22 20:38
BalrogyeahFeb 22 20:38
schestowitzOr species in the case of animalsFeb 22 20:38
schestowitzklutz: :-)Feb 22 20:38
schestowitzklutz: political corruption ain't separable from analogies in commercial corruptionFeb 22 20:39
MrMidlandi think it gets to the root of our tribal, animalistic mind, we are animals after all, i think there is always a yearning to be a part of something, anything or have an allegience with other people based on common ground, be it soccer, religion or musicFeb 22 20:39
schestowitzYes, "Tribal" is a word Chris Brooks uses tooFeb 22 20:39
MrMidlandit gives comfort and a sense of belongingFeb 22 20:40
schestowitzCompetitiveness if something innateFeb 22 20:40
schestowitzCollaboration is anotherFeb 22 20:40
MrMidlandyesFeb 22 20:40
klutzSchestowitz - analogies yes ... but sometimes moreFeb 22 20:40
schestowitzYou need to reinforce values of participation and "Ubuntu", not hostilityFeb 22 20:40
schestowitzThat's why games can be harmful and polarisation as seen on TV ("us" and "them"Feb 22 20:40
klutzAh ... open source as the solution to international conflict?Feb 22 20:41
schestowitzMicrosoft says "This is WAR"Feb 22 20:41
schestowitzIt says "we"re the GoodGuys"Feb 22 20:41
schestowitzI'm quiting from their prosentation"Feb 22 20:41
schestowitzThey even use the word "Jihad"Feb 22 20:41
MrMidlandmany of our opinions and values are formed from the televisonFeb 22 20:41
schestowitzAnd in other E-mails they recite itFeb 22 20:41
schestowitzWhen sabotaging OS/2 boot...... "this is war"Feb 22 20:41
schestowitzNot good for the customers, is it?Feb 22 20:41
schestowitzTechnical sabotage...Feb 22 20:41
MrMidlandwe are very open to suggestion when watching tv in a trance like stateFeb 22 20:41
schestowitzThe Microsoft 'clan' you could call it..Feb 22 20:42
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klutzDo they ... a lot of industry blowhards like to talk tough.  These guys all think they're descended from Attila the Hun.  Jihad huh?Feb 22 20:42
schestowitzklutz: no, not open sourceFeb 22 20:42
schestowitzFree(dom) philosophyFeb 22 20:42
schestowitzRemember why people like RMS and other started this in the first placeFeb 22 20:42
MrMidlandHey Roy i gotta eat, i am Hank Marvin.Feb 22 20:42
schestowitzThey demostrated against violence and such things on the MIT campus tooFeb 22 20:42
schestowitzFOSS was a tool.Feb 22 20:43
MrMidlandI'll catch you later:)Feb 22 20:43
schestowitzMrMidland: catch you laterFeb 22 20:43
klutzI just got here.  I don't knwo the history.  But as for open source being freedom, how does that position Red Hat?Feb 22 20:43
schestowitzklutz: not seen it yet? "Jihad"?Feb 22 20:43
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schestowitzHold on, I'll give you the linkFeb 22 20:43
Balroghe left :/Feb 22 20:43
schestowitzRed Hat is not an embodiment of Free softwareFeb 22 20:43
schestowitzBalrog: later here.. like 9pmFeb 22 20:44
schestowitzI'll be up until 5 or soFeb 22 20:44
Balrogok.Feb 22 20:44
BalrogI'm in EST so how does that translate to?Feb 22 20:44
schestowitz 22 20:44
klutzBut it's an embodiment of open software.  There are fine lines being draw here.  InterestingFeb 22 20:44
klutzThanksFeb 22 20:44
BalrogI saw thatFeb 22 20:44
schestowitzklutz: indocrnation and boundaries make it hard to think of another way. That's how it's intended to be, if successful.Feb 22 20:45
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schestowitzSo they draw lines in the sand to make it hard for projects like Debian GNU/Linux.Feb 22 20:45
schestowitzBut for Red Hat it may be fineFeb 22 20:45
schestowitzbecause they get more inclined to complying rather than pressing.Feb 22 20:45
Balroginteresting that Diskeeper is run by scientologists and if you work there they make you take scientology training, and MS includes diskeeper  code in WindowsFeb 22 20:45
BalrogRed Hat complies?Feb 22 20:46
schestowitzWith market consensusFeb 22 20:46
Balrogwait to waht?Feb 22 20:46
schestowitzForces of all sorts...Feb 22 20:46
Balrogwhat *Feb 22 20:46
schestowitzDebian ain't even keen on trademarksFeb 22 20:46
Balrogyeah well not like Novell...Feb 22 20:46
schestowitzRed Hat enforces these.Feb 22 20:46
schestowitzRemember IceWeasel?Feb 22 20:47
klutzI checked.  If I have to be the victim of a Jihad ... I'd vote for this one "A Jihad focuses on the Travelling Salesman aspect of evangelism. As in sales, the purpose of the exercise is to close – to get the mark the ISV to sign on the dotted line, in pen, irrevocably." :-)Feb 22 20:47
Balrogwell they have to keep their name... "Red Hat" has support from the companyFeb 22 20:47
BalrogDebian doesn'tFeb 22 20:47
Balrogbut about the Firefox mess, that shouldn't have happenedFeb 22 20:47
Balrogbut how to make a "Firefox" without support from the foundation?Feb 22 20:48
Balrog(in case you make buggy modifications)Feb 22 20:48
klutzRed Hat has figured out a way to co-opt free software created by a community, and marginalize all othersFeb 22 20:48
schestowitzThey give it back tooFeb 22 20:48
schestowitzThe question is whether you want it /monetised/Feb 22 20:48
Balrogunlike some othersFeb 22 20:48
schestowitzThat's a separate matterFeb 22 20:48
klutzIt's a business model others are trying to figure out (Sun in particular)Feb 22 20:48
Balrogthe GPL allows itFeb 22 20:49
schestowitzRed Hat made my PC workFeb 22 20:49
schestowitzI use Mandriva nowFeb 22 20:49
Balroginteresting.Feb 22 20:49
klutzSure.  But understand the power of partners.  Exec Red Hat Edition is what the big ISVs support.  No one buys a version that isn't covered by the apps they runFeb 22 20:49
Balrogany particular reason?Feb 22 20:49
schestowitzklutz: Microsoft tooFeb 22 20:50
BalrogMicrosoft wants power too badlyFeb 22 20:50
schestowitzklutz: but Microsoft is like a bully with 1000 slaves at the back that's trying to learn about those 'people in the north'Feb 22 20:50
Balrogthey would really have to change their business modelFeb 22 20:50
schestowitzWhere slavery is not permittedFeb 22 20:50
schestowitzSomeone tells Microsoft that the north of the US makes better steelFeb 22 20:51
klutzRight The industry today breaks down into the open source folks and the proprietary guys (Oracle, Microsoft,SAP)Feb 22 20:51
BalroghehFeb 22 20:51
Balrog 22 20:51
schestowitzAnd Microsoft gets jealous and scaredFeb 22 20:51
schestowitzIts slaved don't make good steelFeb 22 20:51
schestowitzSo tit's trying to find out how to make competitive steel without slavesFeb 22 20:51
klutzAnd the proprietary guys eat their young (Informix, PeopleSoft, et.)Feb 22 20:51
schestowitzklutz: that's another issue -- convergence , centralisation of poerFeb 22 20:52
schestowitzThat's what FTC is for.. regulation in generalFeb 22 20:52
Balroghas the open source zune driver got anywhere?Feb 22 20:52
schestowitzBut they eat doughnuts now. It's easier than doing their work.Feb 22 20:52
klutzIt's best of breed vs. one stop shopping.  Lok at the extent of Oracle's product offerings - OS, hypervisor ... from metal to GUIFeb 22 20:53
schestowitzBalrog: wrng question :-)Feb 22 20:53
schestowitzBalrog: has /the Zune/ got anywhere?Feb 22 20:53
Balrogyeah :pFeb 22 20:53
Balrogwell I meant thisFeb 22 20:53
schestowitzYou could apply the "1% market share" meme to itFeb 22 20:53
Balrogms closes the zune's hardware so much that there's no way to use it on linux / macFeb 22 20:53
Balrogeven the reverse-engineering experts can't (well most of them don't care)Feb 22 20:54
Balrogyes, I've seen some Zunes. Definitely no more than 1% thoughFeb 22 20:54
schestowitzXBox/ZUne are Microsoft's experiments on DRM for consumer appliancesFeb 22 20:54
BalrogA friend of mine has oneFeb 22 20:54
trmanco 22 20:54
schestowitzThey have lost billions trying, to no availFeb 22 20:54
klutz1% market share ... or as I've heard it put, "as far as making money, the "long tail" covers only the (ahem) anus"Feb 22 20:54
Balrogthey can't get it rightFeb 22 20:54
Balrognow what I hear is that Windows Mobile 6.5 is terribleFeb 22 20:55
schestowitzYesFeb 22 20:55
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schestowitzBig let downFeb 22 20:55
schestowitzEven the MS fans hate itFeb 22 20:55
schestowitzWowFeb 22 20:55
schestowitzThey have a physical start buttonFeb 22 20:55
Balrog”I’ve even flashed it onto my HTC Touch Pro just to see what it’s like. Guess what, (surprise!) it’s slower and even more bloated than WM 6.1. It didn’t last for more than a couple hours before I got fed up and rolled it back. Honestly, 6.5 didn’t add anything useful to 6.1. Just a honey-comb UI that looks crappier/more jerky than TouchFlo/Manilla or Spb Mobile shell."Feb 22 20:55
*schestowitz shaking in fearFeb 22 20:55
Balrognot me though :)Feb 22 20:55
*schestowitz presses "start" to shut downFeb 22 20:55
BalrogsucksFeb 22 20:56
*schestowitz makes dinerFeb 22 21:00
Balrogok.Feb 22 21:00
schestowitztrmanco: thanks, addedFeb 22 21:00
schestowitzMicrosoft Internet Explorer CSS Memory Corruption Remote Code Execution < >Feb 22 21:00
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schestowitz*dinner (not diner... not a good time to open one :-) )Feb 22 21:00
BalroglolFeb 22 21:01
schestowitzRevisionism from MS press: 22 21:02
schestowitzI hate it when people only find more recent articles and lackeys mitigate or hide the truth by selection and deselection of facts. The new theme is: Firefox grew, so Netscape wasn't abused really.Feb 22 21:03
Balrogwell, it's true that Netscape was crashy back thenFeb 22 21:04
schestowitzWatch this: 'Stimulus' saves Microsoft Billionaire Hundreds of Millions  < >Feb 22 21:04
schestowitzPeople lose their houses and now they are asked to pay for this man's boatFeb 22 21:05
Balrog:[Feb 22 21:06
Balrognot surprisedFeb 22 21:06
schestowitzThat's how capitalism worksFeb 22 21:06
schestowitzTough love... love for them... tough for all the othersFeb 22 21:06
Balrogwell that's not how it's supposed to work hereFeb 22 21:08
BalrogI don't think the founders of the US wanted it to at leastFeb 22 21:08
schestowitzNo, but that was then, this is nowFeb 22 21:08
Balrogyeah, and people don't care what happened thenFeb 22 21:09
schestowitzMoney goes from the colective poor into the hands of executivesFeb 22 21:09
Balrogeven then, it was bad soon afterFeb 22 21:09
Balrogwith the banks and allFeb 22 21:09
schestowitzThis is disguised as "stimilus" (not looting) to "create jobs"Feb 22 21:09
schestowitzJust like "patents" are for "innovation"Feb 22 21:09
Balrogwhat is your opinion about real patents?Feb 22 21:09
Balrog(not software)Feb 22 21:09
schestowitzAnd "this lifestyle" is "good for your character"Feb 22 21:09
Balrog??Feb 22 21:10
schestowitzBalrog: some are complexFeb 22 21:10
schestowitzLike.. if I use some mechanic machineFeb 22 21:10
schestowitzThen I think what it would take to prevent copycatsFeb 22 21:10
Balrogdo you think having patents that last, say 15 years, is a good idea?Feb 22 21:10
schestowitzIt's not something a kid can build in a garageFeb 22 21:10
schestowitzSoftware can be built in a garage... 100,000,000 or it.Feb 22 21:10
Balrogproblem with software is that it's too easy and it lasts too longFeb 22 21:10
schestowitz1000000^32 of itFeb 22 21:10
Balrog2 years would be manageableFeb 22 21:10
Balrogor even 4Feb 22 21:11
schestowitzIt's a vague scienceFeb 22 21:11
schestowitzSome economic ones are doneFeb 22 21:11
Balrogbut with the current patent term (for software) it's not fairFeb 22 21:11
schestowitzQuestion is, "how good is it to society"Feb 22 21:11
Balrogjust as with copyright..... 95 YEARS?????Feb 22 21:11
schestowitzNot "how good is it to the old investor"Feb 22 21:11
Balrogyeah that's the questionFeb 22 21:11
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, I'm about to take services down for an upgrade, this means that for the duration of the downtime the network will be without our friends NickServ, ChanServ and so forth -- the upgrade shouldn't take long, but feel free to cross fingers and toes for luck regardless! I'm sorry for the inconvenience and hope you have a nice Sunday!Feb 22 21:11
schestowitzCopyrights likewiseFeb 22 21:11
Balroglike why are copyrights 95-years long?Feb 22 21:12
Balrogat leastFeb 22 21:12
schestowitzSure it's good for Frank Sinatra when Nancy can buy boats when she's 70... from his musicFeb 22 21:12
schestowitzBut what about young talents?Feb 22 21:12
Balrogand preservationFeb 22 21:12
schestowitzANother thing is the labelsFeb 22 21:12
schestowitz95 years is good for labelsFeb 22 21:12
BalrogI heard it was originally put in place for disneyFeb 22 21:12
schestowitzMaybe.Feb 22 21:13
schestowitzFor books -- not lieklyFeb 22 21:13
Balrog(about Mickey Mouse)Feb 22 21:13
schestowitzBut audio recordings are not so old Feb 22 21:13
schestowitzVideo even less oldFeb 22 21:13
Balrogyeah.Feb 22 21:13
schestowitzBooks also required machinaeryFeb 22 21:13
schestowitzNow we have computersFeb 22 21:13
Balrogyeah.Feb 22 21:13
schestowitzRMS explains this well... I can find the interviewFeb 22 21:13
schestowitzPlagiarism is now CTRL+V awayFeb 22 21:14
Balrogthe copyright duration problem is not good for software preservationFeb 22 21:14
schestowitzPreservation is now good for moneyFeb 22 21:15
schestowitz*notFeb 22 21:16
Balrogbut for history?Feb 22 21:16
*ChanServ has quit (shutting down)Feb 22 21:16
Balrogarchives can't exist, or are legally in the gray areaFeb 22 21:16
schestowitzRead this: 22 21:18
BalrogI seeFeb 22 21:21
Balrogthere are many ways to prevent those problemsFeb 22 21:21
Balrogsuch as emulators and allFeb 22 21:21
Balroglegally problematic thoughFeb 22 21:21
Balrog:[Feb 22 21:22
schestowitzSilly headline connects two totally separate bits of news: Apple and Microsoft face new legal actions < >Feb 22 21:22
BalroghehFeb 22 21:22
BalrogApple's also being targeted by the patent trollsFeb 22 21:22
*ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 22 21:23
* gives channel operator status to ChanServFeb 22 21:23
schestowitzBalrog: that's a bad thing in a wayFeb 22 21:24
Balrogit's always bad for anyone to be targeted by themFeb 22 21:24
schestowitzThey use as an excuse to say "we need patents to defend ourselves" but they use these to bully Linux, phones based on Linux..Feb 22 21:24
schestowitzThe thing is, patents can't protect them from trolls.Feb 22 21:25
schestowitzTrolls have no productsFeb 22 21:25
schestowitzIt's that simpleFeb 22 21:25
Balrogyes.Feb 22 21:25
schestowitzBut they can easily bamboozle people and lawmakers who don't undertand this.Feb 22 21:25
Balrogpatents can maybe protect them from MS.... though idk if MS really caresFeb 22 21:25
schestowitzThat also enables companies to sue others using a trollFeb 22 21:25
BalrogI did read that Palm has some patents that apple is infringing onFeb 22 21:25
Balrogbut idkFeb 22 21:25
-christel-[Global Notice] Hi again everyone, that went a lot smoother than the LHC, and as with the hadron collider no black holes have appeared! Normal Services may now commence (ok, that was a poor joke, even for me)! Apologies for the inconvenience, thank you for using freenode and have a good evening.Feb 22 21:26
schestowitzMicrosoft has Nathan Myhrvold as a trollFeb 22 21:26
Balrogtrue.Feb 22 21:26
schestowitzit even funds the bastard to run IVFeb 22 21:26
Balrogyeah.Feb 22 21:27
schestowitzYuck. 22 21:28
schestowitzOne of their MS fairy talesFeb 22 21:28
schestowitzChildren and adults taught  how to be enslaved: 22 21:30
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Balrog"DotNet: Microsoft rewrote all its software to be compatible with Internet standards."Feb 22 21:31
BalrogBSFeb 22 21:31
Balrog"internet standards"???? absolutely notFeb 22 21:32
MinceR"rewrote"? they never rewrite anythingFeb 22 21:33
schestowitzHere's a plot from "USA Today"...... Conficker worm infects more than a million PCs < > It says "PCs", not Windows...Feb 22 21:33
schestowitzAnd Brave Cowboy Microsofgt comes to rescueFeb 22 21:33
BalroghehFeb 22 21:33
schestowitzMicrosoft will save those PCsFeb 22 21:33
schestowitz"The $250,000 bounty Microsoft has put up for information on of the controllers of the globe-spanning Conficker worm seems about right. "Feb 22 21:33
schestowitzThat's how it beginsFeb 22 21:33
MinceRthey will, by convincing people to switch to linuxFeb 22 21:33
schestowitzSo Joe Doe reads itFeb 22 21:33
MinceRvista and vista7 are parts of that planFeb 22 21:33
schestowitzOh no! Computers under attackFeb 22 21:34
BalrogI've never seen a linux or mac with conficker....Feb 22 21:34
Balrog(linux system ***)Feb 22 21:34
schestowitz*sigh of relief* Microsoft is fighting themFeb 22 21:34
MinceRmicrosoft has always been fighting computersFeb 22 21:34
MinceRslowing them down, making them less usable :>Feb 22 21:34
Balrogyeah, making sure innovation stayed slowFeb 22 21:35
schestowitz"Dear Microsoft, I love attracting haters, which is why I'm your biggest fan. People are just mad at you cause you make cool stuff using your unlimited resources and everything you touch turns to gold. I think it's about time you blew away google and apple in the overpowered gadget department:"Feb 22 21:35
schestowitz 22 21:36
schestowitzIt's an ms fan sieFeb 22 21:36
schestowitzpart of the pyramidFeb 22 21:36
schestowitz"buy MSFT"Feb 22 21:36
schestowitzMember of the mafia infects BBC... Microsoft executive Sharon Baylay joins BBC 22 21:39
Balrogyeah.Feb 22 21:39
Balrog:{Feb 22 21:39
Balrog:[Feb 22 21:39
schestowitz BBC recruits marketing chief from MicrosoftFeb 22 21:39
schestowitzMarketing evenFeb 22 21:39
schestowitzImposed lies and spinFeb 22 21:39
schestowitzFrom the company whose marketing involved writing letter from dead peopleFeb 22 21:39
schestowitzAnd bribing for publicityFeb 22 21:40
schestowitzEveryone Loves Google, Until It’s Too Big  < >Feb 22 21:40
schestowitzI'm seeing some ugly stuff today... Microsoft is trying to addict people to its products under the guise of good deeds...  CED Solutions, LLC to Provide Free Computer Training to Unemployed Professionals in Greater Atlanta Area < >Feb 22 21:41
Balrogvery badFeb 22 21:42
schestowitzGooglephone gets native MS Office viewers < >Feb 22 21:42
*amarsh04__ ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 22 21:42
schestowitzThe world moved on beyong the Officecorruption (of which there are many)Feb 22 21:43
schestowitzI'll do about 30 posts about this in the future, bringing back the time, this time with court proof for a change.Feb 22 21:43
schestowitzJust need to do it some time before Microsoft is blown to obscurity/oblivionFeb 22 21:43
schestowitz Herhold: Gary Reback's new book argues for antitrust actionFeb 22 21:45
schestowitz"free the market" = let corporations -- not state -- control the countryFeb 22 21:45
schestowitzI.e. no election, ever.Feb 22 21:45
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))Feb 22 21:46
schestowitzHas Microsoft worked out its acquisition of 3DV Systems?  < >Feb 22 21:46
schestowitzFeeling the pinch at Microsoft... interface pinch... 22 21:47
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mjasayRoy, I'm confused by what you wrote about me below...Feb 22 21:50
mjasayI don't know Rob Malda (only talked to him once)Feb 22 21:50
mjasayAnd the fact that I like Horacio at Microsoft doesn't suggest that I'm "sucking up to him."  I didn't know that life was so binaryFeb 22 21:50
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mjasayAnd most of what I submit to Slashdot is rejectedFeb 22 21:52
schestowitzHeyFeb 22 21:53
schestowitzmjasay: yes, I knowFeb 22 21:53
schestowitzmjasay: about MaldaFeb 22 21:53
mjasayI would have thought that Malda would have been one of your allies - most of what goes on Slashdot doesn't exactly speak of love and sweetness to MSFTFeb 22 21:53
schestowitzmjasay: I mailed you the schmoozing memoFeb 22 21:53
schestowitzDid you have a chance to read it?Feb 22 21:54
schestowitzThey try to gag youFeb 22 21:54
schestowitzIf they turn you to a buddy, then you can't criticise muchFeb 22 21:54
schestowitzIt's a stretgy they play against many peopleFeb 22 21:54
schestowitzEven Neelie KroesFeb 22 21:54
schestowitzmjasay: re: Malda, I am no fan of Slashdot, since about a year ago.Feb 22 21:55
mjasayYes, I read it.  But Horacio has never approached me on anything.Feb 22 21:55
schestowitzThey are too Microsoft friendly. They get funds from them tooFeb 22 21:55
mjasayI approached him years ago in Paris, but...whateverFeb 22 21:55
schestowitzmjasay: did he ask to meet?Feb 22 21:55
mjasayNo, I didFeb 22 21:55
schestowitzAnd what about Smith in OSBC?Feb 22 21:55
schestowitzBecause Masnick was invited tooFeb 22 21:55
mjasayYou and I disagree on some things - I'm the corporate ***** after all :-) - but sometimes the name-calling doesn't helpFeb 22 21:55
schestowitzThey try to attract critics to have their side consideredFeb 22 21:55
mjasayI invited Smith.  I thought it was good to have him there.  It showed just how wide the gulf isFeb 22 21:56
schestowitzmjasay: the Paris visit reminded me of Neelie and Ballmer in her home townFeb 22 21:56
schestowitzHe also visited Reding et al.Feb 22 21:56
mjasayAnd it helped me to see just where MSFT's blindspot is vis-a-vis open sourceFeb 22 21:56
schestowitzThey try to make personal friends to bypass expert opinionsFeb 22 21:56
mjasayanyway, no worries, just was surprised to get attacked for this when I probably deserve to get attacked for plenty of other things :-)Feb 22 21:56
schestowitzmjasay: did I say that :-) Croporate *** ?Feb 22 21:56
schestowitzMaybe MinceR Feb 22 21:56
mjasayYeah, it was MinceRFeb 22 21:57
schestowitzmjasay: Smith hijacked the showFeb 22 21:57
mjasayAnd I am corporate, so I understandFeb 22 21:57
schestowitzPeople hear open source "IP" this and thatFeb 22 21:57
schestowitzThat's the stuff we must hide unless it's scrutinised IMHO.Feb 22 21:57
schestowitzmjasay: we all get attacked sometimes.Feb 22 21:57
mjasayI'll keep reading - got to head to the airport now.  More corporate stuff to do tomorrow.  None of it involves MSFT  :-)Feb 22 21:57
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schestowitzThe question is, what for, what justiffiction..Feb 22 21:58
schestowitzHmmm.. I thought this headline was about Microsoft's CEO: Microsoft apes Apple with line of official retail stores < >Feb 22 22:01
MinceRi can't follow this logic -- "if i can get attacked for something then i can't get attacked for anything else"?Feb 22 22:01
schestowitzMe neitherFeb 22 22:02
schestowitzMicrosoft architect buys Issaquah 4BD < > "Haik Babaian and Jacqueline M. Lavallee bought a four-bedroom, two-bath home at 13726 231st Place S.E. in Issaquah from Gary F. Moore and Linda J. Moore for $520,000 on Jan. 29." Feelin' the pinch? Why is this news anyway??Feb 22 22:03
schestowitzThe Seattle press is glamorising Microsoft... so does that count as reporting? 22 22:04
*amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Feb 22 22:04
schestowitzSeattle press has an agenda, but why should it? If it's news, then you'd think it should be impartial. And then you have people accusing BN or Groklaw of being biased...Feb 22 22:05
schestowitzUsing and stuff, Microsoft is trying to pull the poor people onto its lock-in in 'the cloud': 22 22:07
schestowitzBizSpark/DreamSprak - like the park of cigarettes... the coke-cocaine of software, targetting startups and kids, respectively (without respect though)Feb 22 22:07
schestowitz*like the spark of cigaretteFeb 22 22:08
schestowitzSpinners for Microsoft: 22 22:09
schestowitz..what is this...? **Microsoft program manager sells in Bellevue** "Sally A. Solaro sold a four-bedroom, two-bath home at 110 Northside Road in Bellevue to Roderick A. Chavez for $276,076 on Jan. 22" < > How is this NEWS??Feb 22 22:13
schestowitzBREAKING: man sells apartment. (He works for Xerox)Feb 22 22:14
[H]omerMaybe it's an indication that MS is going bankrupt :)Feb 22 22:15
[H]omerOr Xerox evenFeb 22 22:15
[H]omerdunnoFeb 22 22:15
[H]omerRoy, what logger_bot script do you use? The BLAG channel want to use it?Feb 22 22:23
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 22 22:24
schestowitzI use Jeff Waugh's script *shucks*!Feb 22 22:25
schestowitzI'll mail it to you.Feb 22 22:25
schestowitzHe rewrote in python a popular perl-based scriptFeb 22 22:25
schestowitzSent encryptedFeb 22 22:25
*Casperin has quit ("Leaving")Feb 22 22:26
*schestowitz enters #blag , finds no-one, wonders if it's another channelFeb 22 22:26
schestowitz#blagblagblag has ChanServ in itFeb 22 22:27
MinceRinterblag!Feb 22 22:27
schestowitzMicrosoft started the SOuth American suckup roadshow: 22 22:28
schestowitzMinceR: #interblag emptyFeb 22 22:29
MinceR 22 22:30
schestowitzOMG... after Red Ring of Death Microsoft calls the XBox brand "Red"... how tactless is that? Microsoft slips plans for red Xbox 360 < > Does "red Xbox 360" get RRoD more frequently?Feb 22 22:30
*mib_qygw8x (i=4c1cbe74@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellFeb 22 22:30
mib_qygw8x...Feb 22 22:31
schestowitz Doug Barney sucks up to Microsoft on a weekly basis.. 22 22:31
schestowitzmib_qygw8x: hey, what's up?Feb 22 22:31
schestowitzThe site is "independent voice...", but it's all about Microsoft. Nice way to conceal motives......Feb 22 22:32
*mib_qygw8x has quit (Client Quit)Feb 22 22:33
schestowitz...can't make this stuff up. Microsoft: "You're FIRED! Now pay US!" Microsoft wants refund from some laid off workers < >Feb 22 22:33
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mib_2gopjk: SFeb 22 22:36
*mib_2gopjk (i=55b3e01c@gateway/web/ajax/ has left #boycottnovellFeb 22 22:36
schestowitzIf H-P had gone out of business, those who capitalise would include Dell with Linux.... Recession hits HP profits < >Feb 22 22:38
schestowitzSont folds too (in the US): einstein command quoteFeb 22 22:41
schestowitz 22 22:41
schestowitzCool: 22 22:56
[H]omerRoy, thx BTWFeb 22 22:59
[H]omerblag's live channel is on IndyMedia's serverFeb 22 23:00
[H]omerirc.indymedia.orgFeb 22 23:01
[H]omerThe one on Freenode is not usedFeb 22 23:01
[H]omerplaceholder onlyFeb 22 23:01
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*mib_y0yg44 has quit (Client Quit)Feb 22 23:08
schestowitzGOP Tax Mantra: Same Old Song and Stance  < >Feb 22 23:14
schestowitzIn Brief: Chinese in new Tibet crackdown < >Feb 22 23:17
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schestowitz 22 23:50
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Recent Techrights' Posts

Coercion From the "Consent" and "CoC" Crowd is a Self-Defeating Tactic
Freedom of the press; Nothing less
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[Meme] Newer is Worse
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Watch This Space
what matters most is not the volume or quantity of publications but their underlying depth and quality