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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 12th, 2009 - Part 1

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schestowitzThat's BSMar 12 00:00
schestowitzIt's not the firstMar 12 00:00
schestowitzGregg Keizer has not been paying attentionMar 12 00:00
schestowitzBut Microsoft says Linux is secure just because it's used by 'few' (which is not true by the way)Mar 12 00:01
schestowitzIs Vista7 already widely deployed then?Mar 12 00:01
schestowitzOr is it just Vista, aka XP redone badlyMar 12 00:01
trmancohttp://distrowatch.com/?newsid=05372Mar 12 00:03
trmanconot it's really vista done in a different wayMar 12 00:03
trmancothink of it, XP the good, Vista the bad and 7 the ugly, this thinking only in microfoot's OSesMar 12 00:04
schestowitz:-) :-)Mar 12 00:07
schestowitzXP was no good, eitherMar 12 00:07
schestowitzCompared to Vista it might seem goodMar 12 00:07
Balrogcompared to vista, XP worksMar 12 00:07
BalrogXP becomes useless after 3-6 months of me using it thoughMar 12 00:08
Balrogtells a lot about its stabilityMar 12 00:08
trmancohttp://magazine.redhat.com/2009/03/10/ri...Mar 12 00:09
trmancothis is what I call a somewhat legitimate security reportMar 12 00:09
schestowitz"Mozila [...] NOT!"Mar 12 00:11
schestowitzThat's Microsoft attitudeMar 12 00:11
schestowitzBorat like.Mar 12 00:11
schestowitzThey hire 'professionals'Mar 12 00:11
schestowitzTo write in their buddy platform, IDGMar 12 00:11
schestowitzbrbMar 12 00:11
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schestowitzMicrosoft sells kids: Child offered for sale on Xbox Live < http://www.reghardware.co... >Mar 12 00:15
schestowitzNational Semiconductor to lay off 1,725 < http://www.theregister.co.uk/... >; Spansion gets Nasdaq delisting notice < http://www.theregister.co.uk/200... >. There was an article earlier about recreating forests using out-of-work people.Mar 12 00:16
schestowitzis Sun trying to steal the thunder from kernel.org (Linux)? http://www.itwire.com/con... It also tried 'stealing' "LAMP"Mar 12 00:20
balzacThe reason M$ software still sucks after all these decades is that their software doesn't arise from social integrity. *nix software has the academic and scientific community's social integrity from which a higher level of general integration has emergedMar 12 00:23
schestowitzWow! "47% of the German GNU/Linux server market share is Debian. That doesn't count Ubuntu Server Edition, Centos, Fedora, Slackware, and other less well known and also freely available distributions." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php...Mar 12 00:24
schestowitzWow again. "Fedora 10 has been gaining new users at impressive rates.  This past week alone Fedora 10 has picked up over 100,000 more. " http://californiaquantum.wordpress...Mar 12 00:26
schestowitzIn BN, 1 in 3 Linux users is a Ubuntu userMar 12 00:29
Balroganything wrong with Ubuntu?Mar 12 00:30
schestowitzWindows has a market share of 44% at mostMar 12 00:30
schestowitzBalrog: not at all.Mar 12 00:30
schestowitzI like DebianMar 12 00:30
BalrogI set up a new user with XP / Ubuntu (dual boot) ... good idea? He won't do without windows, so is that fine?Mar 12 00:30
schestowitzBecause it's not tied to investorsMar 12 00:30
schestowitzBalrog: well done.Mar 12 00:31
BalrogDebian is good, but for new users?Mar 12 00:31
schestowitzMaybe. Why not?Mar 12 00:31
schestowitzIf you set it up for themMar 12 00:31
schestowitzOr preload itMar 12 00:31
schestowitzLike MEPISMar 12 00:31
BalrogThe people at our univ. don't support ubuntu, only fedora, so I'm supporting it :)Mar 12 00:31
Balrog(for him)Mar 12 00:31
schestowitzOr Xandros which is based on it tooMar 12 00:31
schestowitzKnoppix..Mar 12 00:31
Balrogwe use Knoppix for diagMar 12 00:31
BalroghereMar 12 00:31
schestowitzCool.Mar 12 00:31
schestowitzI'm impressed with how quickly it gainsMar 12 00:32
schestowitzNo wonder MS is suingMar 12 00:32
schestowitzAnd throwing out XP for $5 apieceMar 12 00:32
schestowitzTake it, just take it!Mar 12 00:32
schestowitz"Just don't use this Lunix thing"Mar 12 00:32
BalroghehMar 12 00:32
schestowitzThey go aggressve like this in India and BrazilMar 12 00:32
Balroghere we have MSDN XP and VistaMar 12 00:32
schestowitzThey blame "piracy". They don't say the L wordMar 12 00:32
Balrogthough no-one uses vistaMar 12 00:32
schestowitzIt might give people ideasMar 12 00:33
schestowitzAnd dumping is euphemised as "chairity"Mar 12 00:33
Balrogheh yeahMar 12 00:33
Balrogbut what about free software...????Mar 12 00:33
schestowitzgratisMar 12 00:33
Balrogmeaning real freeMar 12 00:33
schestowitzGates says MS does free softwareMar 12 00:33
BalrogfossMar 12 00:33
Balrogwell it's not free if anyone can't get it for freeMar 12 00:34
schestowitzAnd "then there's this thing called the GPL, which we disgree with" (Gate, April 2004 talk)Mar 12 00:34
Balrogif a school gets it free and a business has to pay for it, you can't call it freeMar 12 00:34
Balrogif they disagree with GPL, why not use a GPL-incompatible FOSS license like CDDL?Mar 12 00:34
Balrogit's still FOSS....Mar 12 00:34
schestowitzYeah..Mar 12 00:34
schestowitzThey use CDDL?Mar 12 00:34
schestowitzMS uses Novell to touch GPLMar 12 00:35
schestowitzCitrix too is a GPL 'proxy'Mar 12 00:35
schestowitzMicrosoft can't touch itMar 12 00:35
schestowitzMicrosoft preaches in microsoft.com that GPL is evil and all..Mar 12 00:35
BalrogI know some people who don't like GPL because it's viralMar 12 00:35
Balrog:/Mar 12 00:37
Balrogwhat's better for a new user: kde or gnome?Mar 12 00:37
schestowitzdepends...Mar 12 00:38
*schestowitz eatsMar 12 00:38
schestowitzadvaNCED N00B?Mar 12 00:39
Balrogsomeone who's used to XP and visual studio and allMar 12 00:39
schestowitzor total n00b?Mar 12 00:39
schestowitzkde4 then?Mar 12 00:39
Balrognope, an experienced oneMar 12 00:39
Balrogbut zero knowledge of anything unixMar 12 00:39
schestowitzlinus tried 4.0Mar 12 00:39
schestowitzbig mistakeMar 12 00:40
schestowitztoo earlyMar 12 00:40
Balrogyes absolutelyMar 12 00:40
Balrogthough gnome is much cleaner than kedMar 12 00:40
Balrogkde *Mar 12 00:40
BalrogI put in gnome kde AND xfceMar 12 00:41
balzachttp://www.pcmech.com/article/good-lin...Mar 12 00:43
balzacwhat a clownMar 12 00:44
balzac[#boycottnovell] Pu! I#[7m@Ym not a #[7m@\Linux Zealot#[7m@]. I#[7m@Ym a GNU user. Microsoft can take their software patents and stuff them.Mar 12 00:45
balzacoopsMar 12 00:45
Balroggood linux users complain big-time about MSMar 12 00:45
balzachow do those trashy characters get in there...Mar 12 00:45
schestowitzbalzac: yes, seen the headline earlier, not the articleMar 12 00:45
schestowitzSounds like the fools who later wonder about lawsuitsMar 12 00:46
balzacThe guy says "to Linux Zealots fsck you!"Mar 12 00:46
schestowitzAnd software patents in Europe and all..Mar 12 00:46
Balrogespecially about everything that MS does that causes PROBLEMS in linuxMar 12 00:46
Balroglike silver lightMar 12 00:46
BalrogD=Mar 12 00:46
schestowitzIt's intentionalMar 12 00:47
schestowitzRemember memosMar 12 00:47
Balrogyeah I knowMar 12 00:47
schestowitz"Under NO circumstances lose to Linux"Mar 12 00:47
Balrogyes.Mar 12 00:47
schestowitz"We need to innovate beyond/above standards"Mar 12 00:47
schestowitzI.e. we need to make things that won't work in LinuxMar 12 00:47
schestowitz"There will be a lawsuit against Linux"Mar 12 00:47
schestowitzEtc etc.Mar 12 00:47
schestowitzSCO suitMar 12 00:47
schestowitzOld debate anywayMar 12 00:48
schestowitzWhen people bring it up then... hold on.Mar 12 00:48
balzacNo, Rich Menga, fsck you! I'm not a "Linux Zealot". I'm a GNU user. And Microsoft can take their software patents and stuff them. M$ stinks!Mar 12 00:48
schestowitzSee picture: http://slated.org/why_do...Mar 12 00:48
balzacHe said "To Linux zealots - fsck you!"Mar 12 00:48
balzacThe best comeback to "fsck you" is "no, fsck you"Mar 12 00:49
schestowitzBalrog: in Popular Mechanics, eh?Mar 12 00:49
schestowitzAnyway, I'd rather not fight themMar 12 00:49
schestowitzWatse of energyMar 12 00:49
Balrogname mixup failMar 12 00:49
schestowitzCivil warsMar 12 00:49
balzaclearned that one in an Ahnuld Gropenfuhrer movieMar 12 00:49
schestowitzLet's keep up the good work exposing MicrosoftMar 12 00:49
schestowitzI've known people who changed from MS apathy to something elseMar 12 00:49
schestowitzBecause they saw Comes stuff for exampleMar 12 00:50
schestowitzThey wears off the "we've changes... the New Microsoft" makeupMar 12 00:50
balzacRoy, it doesn't cost me much energy to return a "fsck you" back to it's rightful owner.Mar 12 00:53
schestowitzAdobe neglects UNIX/Linux again: http://www.pcworld.com/article/16109... "The fix is only available for version 9, with an update for older 7 and 8 versions expected by March 18, the company says. Unix users will need to wait until March 25 for an update."Mar 12 00:55
schestowitzbalzac: yes, but we make things worse by aggravating further the wrong peopleMar 12 00:55
Balrogadobe doesn't care for linuxMar 12 00:55
schestowitzI think:Mar 12 00:55
schestowitzIgnore his postMar 12 00:55
balzacWho cares about Adobe. I'm neglecting them now, after 10 years of photoshopMar 12 00:55
schestowitzAnalyse something like ComesMar 12 00:56
balzacRoy, I don't agree.Mar 12 00:56
schestowitzThen show himMar 12 00:56
schestowitzLet him make own mindMar 12 00:56
schestowitzI heard the name Rich Menga before.Mar 12 00:56
schestowitzLet me check.Mar 12 00:56
balzache can make up his own mind, but he can also get back what he puts outMar 12 00:56
schestowitzHaha. http://www.menga.net/2004/08/22/linux-n...Mar 12 00:57
balzacIt was a douchey articleMar 12 00:57
schestowitzAnti Linux?Mar 12 00:57
schestowitzbalzac: I didn't read the articleMar 12 00:57
balzacwho is he to go on about who is or isn't a good "linux" user?Mar 12 00:57
schestowitzIt seemed like it would only annoy meMar 12 00:57
schestowitzAlso from him: Would The Internet Exist Without Linux? < http://www.pcmech.com/article/woul... >Mar 12 00:57
schestowitzbalzac: agreedMar 12 00:58
schestowitzTo say who is "good" is wrongMar 12 00:58
balzacRoy, i always like to raise the ante when i'm right because it makes it that much more fun to be victorious.Mar 12 00:58
schestowitzBut I didn't read itMar 12 00:58
schestowitzHe hardly writes about LinuxMar 12 00:58
balzachonestly, I pity fools who go on like that with no substance at all.Mar 12 00:58
schestowitzBut... he's not our enemyMar 12 00:59
schestowitzI learned the same about Matt asayMar 12 00:59
schestowitzBetter to be diplomaticMar 12 00:59
balzacnot an enemey at all, just a douchey software punditMar 12 00:59
schestowitzHe's like friends with many of us... just not 100% in agreement... but why alienate if we can use him on 'our team'?Mar 12 00:59
balzacnaw man, it's funny to do verbal retaliation. it's fun and sporting to talk trash anyway.Mar 12 01:00
schestowitzThis reminds me...Mar 12 01:00
Balrogthe internet would suck without linuxMar 12 01:00
balzacRoy, that's a failing strategyMar 12 01:00
schestowitzSome people act as self-appointed spokespeople on mattersMar 12 01:00
schestowitzIt's not fairMar 12 01:00
schestowitzLike Microsoft on OSSMar 12 01:00
schestowitz"move over RMS.. Microsoft knows OSS better"Mar 12 01:00
schestowitzOSSMar 12 01:00
balzache wants to waltz into the "linux community" and talk trash about FSF/GNU people?Mar 12 01:01
schestowitzNot FOSSMar 12 01:01
balzacfsck himMar 12 01:01
balzacexactlyMar 12 01:01
schestowitz"If you care about money, don't follow RMS" -- MicrosoftMar 12 01:01
schestowitzLike RMS on Linus and freedomMar 12 01:01
balzacfine, but I'll fight for the money too.Mar 12 01:01
schestowitz:-)Mar 12 01:01
balzaci love fighting over moneyMar 12 01:02
balzacif there's no fight, there probably isn't much money involvedMar 12 01:02
balzacno fight, no gloryMar 12 01:02
balzacgrab glory!Mar 12 01:02
balzacgrab money and then count it in gnu cashMar 12 01:03
schestowitzHehe. gnucashMar 12 01:04
balzacbesides, the guy wasn't just talking trash about free software users, he was directly saying FU!Mar 12 01:04
schestowitzYes, so you sayMar 12 01:04
balzacthere's a difference between misunderstanding and overtly, gratuitously insultingMar 12 01:04
schestowitzI won't read it cause then I might go ballisticMar 12 01:04
balzacwell, he said FU to you, Roy.Mar 12 01:05
schestowitzLike this: Mar 12 01:05
schestowitzhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commo...Mar 12 01:05
schestowitzbalzac: I say g'day backMar 12 01:05
balzacActually, I respect a guy more who says "FU" directly rather than just lying and pretending not to be hostile.Mar 12 01:05
schestowitzHe can talk to the handMar 12 01:05
schestowitzAlso, it's bad to give him attentionMar 12 01:05
schestowitzOr to the artcleMar 12 01:06
schestowitzI avoid Enderle crap for this reasonMar 12 01:06
balzacI disagreeMar 12 01:06
schestowitzSo do other editors, bar lxerMar 12 01:06
schestowitzIf you feed them, they'll drool moreMar 12 01:06
balzacIt's good to go and verbally-clash until they cry out "can't we all just get along?"Mar 12 01:07
balzacThen you say "ha. i knew you were a cry-baby."Mar 12 01:07
balzacjkMar 12 01:07
balzacNo mercy! Kobra Kai!Mar 12 01:08
balzacAt the end of the day, it's only joking around.Mar 12 01:10
schestowitzCan you picture Ballmer saying  "can't we all just get along?"Mar 12 01:11
schestowitzAs opposed to say, Cisco's CEO? Chambers, right?Mar 12 01:12
schestowitzPCLinuxOS 2009.1 Final Released  < http://www.pclinuxos.com/index.p... >. Stupid Munckins in USENET tried to debunk this.Mar 12 01:12
balzacBut I got into a debate with this one guy who was actually an "open source" guy. He ended up comparing the FSF to Hamas.Mar 12 01:12
schestowitzLOLMar 12 01:12
balzacThen he edited his comment to take that out, but I already had seen his first comment.Mar 12 01:13
schestowitzHamas promotes extreme actionMar 12 01:13
schestowitzFSF promotes freedom and harmonyMar 12 01:13
schestowitzit's like comparing the hippies to some US militiaMar 12 01:13
balzacyeah, that was an example of the greater internet fuckwad theory: http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2004...Mar 12 01:14
balzacI won't name names, but I was pretty disappointed in that guy. Even M$ isn't that nasty, and this was an "open source" guy writing for a free software branded publicationMar 12 01:15
schestowitzKool-Aid here: Critical Mass < http://danlynch.org/blog/2009... >Mar 12 01:16
Balrogis there a page that shows what percentage of servers online are Windows and what % are linux and other OS?Mar 12 01:19
BalrogI thought netcraft had something of that natureMar 12 01:19
BalrogI need it now. :/ ... someone I know is convinced that 'microsoft rules the world' and that 'php isnt bad, but its unrefined.... its good for some applications, but when you need to handle billions in sales a month, you use asp.net. end of story'Mar 12 01:19
Balroganyone know?Mar 12 01:20
BalrogI have to get going, so it would be good to find out.Mar 12 01:22
schestowitzhttp://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2... "Ed Bott is doing his best over at ZDNet to spread the Microsoft religion, with the wonders of Windows 7 extolled nearly each day in a new and different way."Mar 12 01:26
schestowitzBalrog: Web servers?Mar 12 01:26
schestowitzBallmer says 60% LinuxMar 12 01:26
Balrogyes, he's a web developer that uses ASP.NETMar 12 01:26
BalrogI need verifiable sources onlineMar 12 01:26
balzacgnu/linux / *nix ?Mar 12 01:26
schestowitzI have it from BallmerMar 12 01:27
Balrog"unbiased"Mar 12 01:27
schestowitzQuoteMar 12 01:27
Balrogyeah but he won't trust youMar 12 01:27
schestowitzNot even SweatyB?Mar 12 01:27
Balrognot if it's from your siteMar 12 01:27
Balroghe's sold on itMar 12 01:27
schestowitzNo, not mineMar 12 01:27
schestowitzWintel pressMar 12 01:27
Balroglink?Mar 12 01:27
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter...Mar 12 01:28
schestowitz"Forty percent of servers run Windows, 60 percent run Linux," he said. "How  are we doing? Forty is less than 60, so I don't like it. ... We have some work to do."Mar 12 01:28
Balrogalso what aboutMar 12 01:28
BalrogPHP vs. ASP.NET?Mar 12 01:28
schestowitzDunnoMar 12 01:28
schestowitzJudge by merit, not #Mar 12 01:28
Balrogsays 'php isnt bad, but its unrefined.... its good for some applications, but when you need to handle billions in sales a month, you use asp.net. end of story'Mar 12 01:29
schestowitzBushtroopers powered by Linux: http://blog.wired.com/defens...Mar 12 01:31
schestowitzBalrog: oppositeMar 12 01:31
schestowitzShow him the LSE disasterMar 12 01:31
schestowitzMost stock exchanges run UNIX or LinuxMar 12 01:31
Balrogsays he's tried PHP latelyMar 12 01:31
Balrogurl?Mar 12 01:32
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/08...Mar 12 01:33
Balrogan external linxMar 12 01:33
Balroglink *Mar 12 01:33
schestowitzUse the links thereMar 12 01:33
schestowitzMany... about 20Mar 12 01:33
schestowitzYou insult BN? ;-)Mar 12 01:33
schestowitzNot good enough for ya, PUNK? ;-)Mar 12 01:33
schestowitzhttp://news.opensuse.org/2009/03/1... SUSE failMar 12 01:34
schestowitzMaybe SUSE was moved to Mono.NET or something ;-) at Novell's behestMar 12 01:35
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schestowitzAnother asshole has just forged me....Mar 12 01:54
schestowitzPosted some anti-Linux stuff under my name in USENET :-(Mar 12 01:54
schestowitzThe server dropped me for a while.Mar 12 01:56
schestowitzThe following didn't make it through:Mar 12 01:56
schestowitz<schestowitz> You insult BN? ;-)Mar 12 01:56
schestowitz<schestowitz> Not good enough for ya, PUNK? ;-)Mar 12 01:56
schestowitz<schestowitz> http://news.opensuse.org/2009/03/10... SUSE failMar 12 01:56
schestowitz<schestowitz> Maybe SUSE was moved to Mono.NET or something ;-) at Novell's behestMar 12 01:56
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balzacRoy, the only thing you can do about that is to call out the imposter in the same venue.Mar 12 02:56
balzacThat's really not cool.Mar 12 02:56
balzacIt's a good thing freenode lets you register your nickMar 12 02:56
balzacThat kind of bullsht happens to noam chomsky all the timeMar 12 02:57
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tessierHow's the market for Linux people?Mar 12 03:51
tessierI'm still employed but not for long, I'm sure.Mar 12 03:51
PeterFAWhat I find so funny is that the newer the version of Linux or Free software, the faster it gets.Mar 12 03:51
PeterFAKDE4 is faster than 3, Linux 2.6.28 is faster than 2.6.26Mar 12 03:51
balzaclartMar 12 04:27
balzacit's solid i think, if you have some basic wed dev skills and sysadmin skillsMar 12 04:28
balzac.Mar 12 04:44
PeterFAAnyways, I'm an entrepranuer. How could I make money off of Linux and friends?Mar 12 04:44
balzac.Mar 12 04:44
balzacPeterFA: start with using it for your daily tasksMar 12 04:44
balzacThat's the stage I'm at now, operating as a web developerMar 12 04:45
PeterFAI've been doing that for the past few years :)Mar 12 04:45
balzacalso some designMar 12 04:45
balzacthen...Mar 12 04:45
balzacwork on your qualifications as a consultantMar 12 04:45
balzacand broker software license dealsMar 12 04:45
balzacroll out a bunch of gnu/linux installations with support licensesMar 12 04:45
balzacstart first with a free version - it's already better than windowsMar 12 04:46
balzacthen suggest they buy a few support contracts - even oneMar 12 04:46
balzaceven if they have 5 ubuntu or redhat installations, get them to buy one support contract at leastMar 12 04:46
balzacand broker those dealsMar 12 04:46
balzacI'm going to ask clients for a commission on savings, so I don't even have to broker any dealsMar 12 04:47
balzacjust block any new deals on proprietary software licensesMar 12 04:47
balzacand show them the way to the support chatrooms on freenodeMar 12 04:47
balzacget a commission on IT budget savings, the client company doesn't even have to make any new procurements to save and to pay me consulting feesMar 12 04:48
balzacI call myself the proprietary software license reaperMar 12 04:48
balzacenough of these archaic licenses!Mar 12 04:49
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Omar87Hello everyoneMar 12 05:25
Omar87And really, Asus are motherf*&%ers!!! (Sorry for that but it really pissed me off)Mar 12 05:26
Omar87When you browse the EeePC, you find this sentence at to right: "Asus recommends Windows for everyday computing."!Mar 12 05:28
Omar87The bastards..!Mar 12 05:28
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schestowitzMorning.Mar 12 09:07
schestowitztessier: it's going well. 100k downloads of Fedora in one week.Mar 12 09:08
MinceRj0h0h0Mar 12 09:15
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MinceRhttp://news.slashdot.org/article.p...Mar 12 09:38
schestowitzThey posion government tooMar 12 09:41
*mib_tkc74k (i=c1ac7d82@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0b96392e07dfbb01) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 10:03
mib_tkc74khiMar 12 10:03
schestowitzHey there.Mar 12 10:03
mib_tkc74kwhy do you dislike Silverlight?Mar 12 10:04
schestowitzIt's about turning the Web to Microsoft WebMar 12 10:05
mib_tkc74khow?Mar 12 10:05
schestowitzMedia in particularMar 12 10:05
schestowitz.NET alsoMar 12 10:05
mib_tkc74kby forcing users to use silverlight?Mar 12 10:05
mib_tkc74kbut applications are improving the user expirienceMar 12 10:07
schestowitzThey are notMar 12 10:08
schestowitzOnly to MicrosoftersMar 12 10:08
schestowitzIt's discriminatory by designMar 12 10:08
schestowitzIt's also non-standard.Mar 12 10:08
schestowitzIt's binary Web.Mar 12 10:08
mib_tkc74kMS is just targeting for the biggest audience I guessMar 12 10:08
mib_tkc74kand Silverlight works on Mac and Linux tooMar 12 10:09
oiaohmReally his a serious point mib_tkc74k MS codecs for moonlight don't work on arm ppc.... processes ie x86 only.Mar 12 10:09
oiaohmSo no it don't really work on Mac or Linux it only partly works.Mar 12 10:09
mib_tkc74kmmokayMar 12 10:09
mib_tkc74kperhaps version 3 will fix thatMar 12 10:10
oiaohmNopMar 12 10:10
mib_tkc74kand why not?Mar 12 10:10
oiaohmCodecs from microsoft are binary only.Mar 12 10:10
oiaohmMicrosoft don't make codecs for any other platforms.Mar 12 10:10
oiaohmOther than x86.Mar 12 10:11
mib_tkc74kthen why do they claim it works on other platforms?Mar 12 10:11
oiaohmThey are claiming OS as a platform leaving out cpu type.Mar 12 10:11
oiaohmarm is required so it works in mobile phones and some cheaper netbooks on the table.Mar 12 10:11
mib_tkc74kwhat is 'arm'?Mar 12 10:12
oiaohmType of processor chip mib_tkc74kMar 12 10:12
mib_tkc74kokay thnxMar 12 10:12
oiaohmThat uses way different instruction set to x86 and is very power effective.Mar 12 10:13
oiaohmYes there is a dell laptop with a x86 processor for windows and an arm processor for Linux that will not run moonlight either.Mar 12 10:13
oiaohmLinux mode the laptop gets almost 12 hours runtime compared to 4 hours on the windows ie the difference between arm and x86 is massive in power usage.Mar 12 10:14
oiaohmNow the problem with locking to a CPU type is the most power effective chip designs that may be created you might to be able to use because of what MS and other do.Mar 12 10:15
oiaohmmib_tkc74k: do you not want a laptop that can run for 12 hours straight under load?Mar 12 10:16
mib_tkc74kwe've got desktops for that.. and my netbook does 6 hours nowMar 12 10:16
oiaohmArm conversion that netbook most likely could do at least 18 hours.Mar 12 10:17
mib_tkc74kawesomeMar 12 10:18
oiaohmRemember batteries are heavy.Mar 12 10:18
oiaohmWindows desktop OS's don't run on ARM.Mar 12 10:18
oiaohmMost windows software don't run on ARM either.Mar 12 10:18
oiaohmSee the problem here lots of people are locked into x86 by there applications and operating system.Mar 12 10:19
oiaohmThe hidden value of Open Source.Mar 12 10:20
mib_tkc74kbecause everybody else uses it..Mar 12 10:20
oiaohmGo backwards.Mar 12 10:20
oiaohmAt the start of computing everyone was using different processor types.Mar 12 10:20
oiaohmPeople have allowed this to happen to them.Mar 12 10:21
oiaohmEverybody using something is a poor argument.Mar 12 10:22
oiaohmThinking people like me don't use Windows because my job does not require it.  To be correct somethings I do cannot be done well on windows.Mar 12 10:23
mib_tkc74kthat depends on your job I guessMar 12 10:23
mib_tkc74kanyway, lunchtime.. bye!Mar 12 10:24
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oiaohmschestowitz: MS defenders are too simple to break.Mar 12 10:25
schestowitzYes, I know.Mar 12 10:33
schestowitzSilver Lie is not being adopted, so they worryMar 12 10:34
schestowitzMicrosoft bribes businesses to adopt some and then makes noise about it (PR). Adobe has said this (Independent article, I thin)Mar 12 10:35
schestowitz*thinkMar 12 10:35
MinceRadobe would be the last entity i'd ask about this :>Mar 12 10:40
schestowitzAlobbyMar 12 10:41
oiaohmAdobe can be as bad as Microsoft.Mar 12 10:42
schestowitzAtheist Life vs Religious Life < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaO... >Mar 12 11:02
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oiaohmHmm buddist really dis argree with most of what he is saying.Mar 12 11:47
oiaohmIe that is only Atheist that believe that.Mar 12 11:47
EruaranhelloMar 12 11:49
oiaohmHi EruaranMar 12 11:50
EruaranAny interesting developments ?Mar 12 11:50
oiaohmOther than a person trying to make moonlight sound positive not much.Mar 12 11:51
EruaranI used to suggest they go get a job at RedmondMar 12 11:52
EruaranBut I don't think Redmond is hiring anymore ;)Mar 12 11:52
schestowitzHehe.Mar 12 11:52
schestowitzThey cut wages too, so people will find a more ethical jobMar 12 11:52
schestowitzIt's important to remember how many jobs Microsoft destroyesMar 12 11:53
schestowitz*yedMar 12 11:53
EruaranyesMar 12 11:53
schestowitzAnd how many jobs will be created once it's being 'Unisysed'Mar 12 11:53
EruaranA customer came in today asking for a netbook with a ssd and linuxMar 12 11:54
Eruaranwe found they are thin on the groundMar 12 11:54
oiaohmSo they are.Mar 12 11:54
oiaohmI am having more companies asking me about software cost cutting.Mar 12 11:55
oiaohmGood for business really.Mar 12 11:55
EruaranSo, the articles announcing victory for XP based on real demand are false... the reality is the customers who want them cant get themMar 12 11:55
EruaranThe only Asus models available with Linux are the original 7" onesMar 12 11:56
EruaranThe rest are WindowsMar 12 11:56
schestowitzEruaran: the US/AU is not 'world'Mar 12 11:57
schestowitzThe Linux sub-notebooks are big in the EUMar 12 11:57
EruaranSo, this guy is going to buy one of the Atom based ones with a SSD, pay the Windows tax and he wants us to install eeebuntu on it for himMar 12 11:57
schestowitzAbout 40% market share from what I've readMar 12 11:57
EruaranWhat Im saying is there is a concerted effort here to make sure supply is non-existantMar 12 11:58
schestowitzEruaran: ASUS told outMar 12 11:58
schestowitzIt said soMar 12 11:58
schestowitzNow it received payments from Microsoft to advertise WinodowsMar 12 11:58
schestowitzOmar showed this earlierMar 12 11:58
schestowitzThey fell for the "OEM recommends" scam tooMar 12 11:58
EruaranI believe Microsoft gave them Windows XP gratisMar 12 11:58
schestowitzyesMar 12 11:58
schestowitzBut there's moreMar 12 11:58
oiaohmMS gave them XP gratis on the idea at a later date with windows 7 they will be able to lift the price.Mar 12 11:59
oiaohmie crush Linux move.Mar 12 11:59
oiaohmSomehow I don't think its working.Mar 12 11:59
EruaranWindows 7 "Starter Edition" = Fail.Mar 12 11:59
EruaranThe irony here is that our customers at least haven't stopped using LinuxMar 12 11:59
EruaranThe installed base simply becomes invisible again while Linux users buy netbooks with XP on them, only to install Linux when they get homeMar 12 12:00
schestowitzEruaran: sadly for Microsoft, Linuc can't dueMar 12 12:00
schestowitzMicrosoft is used to strangulation tactics being possibleMar 12 12:00
schestowitzI.e. spend billions jut ensuring the competition can't make revenue and then starvesMar 12 12:01
schestowitzThen the prices can be inflated againMar 12 12:01
EruaranyesMar 12 12:01
schestowitzit's a deficientcy in the marketMar 12 12:01
oiaohmLinux is not something you can stave out.Mar 12 12:01
schestowitzThe way it's set upMar 12 12:01
schestowitz*deficiencyMar 12 12:01
oiaohmIts been staved for its complete existance.Mar 12 12:01
oiaohmSo Linux is 100 percent use to operating that way.Mar 12 12:01
EruaranOur sales figures are probably 99% Windows XPMar 12 12:02
schestowitzThe only one starving now is MicrosoftMar 12 12:02
schestowitzAnd it's entering debtMar 12 12:02
EruaranThe reality of the installed base we work with is vastly different thoughMar 12 12:02
schestowitzIt'll owe money to bankMar 12 12:02
schestowitz*banksMar 12 12:02
EruaranFor exampleMar 12 12:02
schestowitzAnd what's the assuranceMar 12 12:02
schestowitzWhat does Microsoft tell the bank?Mar 12 12:02
schestowitz"Look, we'll be profitable and pay back because........?"Mar 12 12:02
EruaranA recent netbook customer purchased an XP netbook... but we know he installed Ubuntu on itMar 12 12:02
schestowitzBecause Vista has a new version?Mar 12 12:02
schestowitzBecause XBox360 isn't sold (at a loss) in the tough economy?Mar 12 12:03
schestowitzbecause Windows Mobile is dying?Mar 12 12:03
schestowitzbecause the price of Windows sinks to $5?Mar 12 12:03
EruaranA guy who came in yesterday looking at Linux Mint took a disk home and installed it on his system last night... he came in and told me today and chatted about itMar 12 12:03
schestowitzBecause SAAS is hurting Office?Mar 12 12:03
schestowitzEruaran: cool.Mar 12 12:03
oiaohmThat is the other thing Eruaran Linux guys are not hidding what they were doing any more.Mar 12 12:03
EruaranOut of these the only sale we have on the books that mentions Linux is a Fujitsu a1110 which is being sold as a dual boot XP/UbuntuMar 12 12:04
oiaohmAsus has splashtop that is not counted in Linux numbersMar 12 12:04
EruaranThe customer requested this setup saying, "I've got friends who are using it (Ubuntu)"Mar 12 12:04
schestowitzoiaohm: what #s?Mar 12 12:05
EruaranThe installed base of Linux users is a vastly different picture compared to anyone's official sales figuresMar 12 12:05
schestowitzWho cares about numbers?Mar 12 12:05
schestowitzPeople with shareholders doMar 12 12:05
schestowitzMarketersMar 12 12:05
oiaohmExactly schestowitzMar 12 12:05
schestowitzIf Linux quietly maintains 7% on the desktop (places like Brazil), do you mind that people won't know it?Mar 12 12:05
oiaohmIf MS shareholders see bad numbers how long before they leave the sinking ship and make it sink faster.Mar 12 12:06
schestowitzballmer ranks Linux above AppleMar 12 12:06
schestowitzAnd Apple market cap is hugeMar 12 12:06
schestowitzWhat does that tell you about MS' intelligence reports?Mar 12 12:06
oiaohmApple is not a threat to MS.Mar 12 12:06
oiaohmNever will be at the rate they are going.Mar 12 12:06
schestowitzYes, I knowMar 12 12:06
oiaohmThe bound to hardware bit limits Apples threat.Mar 12 12:06
schestowitzThey target rich familiesMar 12 12:06
schestowitzFor iPhone ($1000+), MacBooks, etc.Mar 12 12:07
schestowitzApple can't sustain this model around the worldMar 12 12:07
oiaohmMS bound to x86 is one of MS weak points.Mar 12 12:07
schestowitzAnd Mac OS X won't run on much hardwareMar 12 12:07
oiaohmThat should be around until at least 2012Mar 12 12:07
schestowitzNot even if it were 'opened'Mar 12 12:07
schestowitz[to other PCs]Mar 12 12:07
schestowitzPrimitive BSDMar 12 12:07
oiaohmApple uses cpusMar 12 12:07
schestowitzBut they have CUPS for the rest of those devices..Mar 12 12:08
oiaohmcups for printer drivrs.Mar 12 12:08
schestowitzoiaohm: beat me to itMar 12 12:08
schestowitzARM will grow?Mar 12 12:08
oiaohmHad to hapen but my english went to hell.Mar 12 12:08
schestowitzSeen the reports about it?Mar 12 12:08
oiaohmARM most likely will grow.Mar 12 12:08
oiaohmARM is also not like x86.  There are lots of different ARM processor makers.Mar 12 12:09
oiaohmIncluding intel and amd.Mar 12 12:09
schestowitzhere's one that I found 1 hour ago: http://blog.laptopmag.com/analyst-arm-pow...Mar 12 12:09
*jose (n=jose@adsl-233-56-179.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovellMar 12 12:09
schestowitz"Intel’s Atom processor has some fierce competition coming from ARM, if you believe Information Network President Robert Castellano. According to the EE Times, Castellano says that ARM based processors will hold 55 percent of the netbook market by 2012."Mar 12 12:09
joseheyMar 12 12:09
schestowitzHey, jose Mar 12 12:09
josecheck something interestingMar 12 12:09
josehttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_st...Mar 12 12:09
oiaohmAtom is still stuck with a instruction set that does not suit being power effective.Mar 12 12:10
josenot sure if kodak is being paid for that .. or maybe there is a project tech swichMar 12 12:10
joseor maybe i made a mistakeMar 12 12:10
EruaranARM is cheaper and more efficientMar 12 12:10
schestowitzoiaohm: of courseMar 12 12:10
schestowitzjose: Kodak and Mirosoft got togetherMar 12 12:11
schestowitzBill Foundry put tons of money in Kodak last monthMar 12 12:11
joseyeah, but the project seems 100% qtMar 12 12:11
schestowitzSome said it was for DRMMar 12 12:11
schestowitzOr HDMar 12 12:11
josethe ad is for mono.. doesn't even mention qtMar 12 12:11
EruaranAnd manufacturers certainly wont care about offending Intel if they are losing market share to new ARM based competitors who have none of that baggageMar 12 12:11
schestowitzLet me see.....Mar 12 12:11
schestowitzWow, jose Mar 12 12:13
oiaohmYep the project is qt jose.  Its a competior to sane.Mar 12 12:13
schestowitzGood findMar 12 12:13
schestowitzI wondered about some Microsoft-Kodak connectionsMar 12 12:13
schestowitzCan I reproduce your comment in full in BN?Mar 12 12:13
josethis looks like the main project pageMar 12 12:13
josehttp://sourceforge.net/proj...Mar 12 12:13
oiaohmhttp://www.twain.org/Mar 12 12:13
josenotice it mentions qtMar 12 12:13
oiaohmRead what twain 2.0 is jose then it makes perfect sence.Mar 12 12:14
josealso, i dug inside and found everything to suggest it was qt with zero monoMar 12 12:14
josetwain comes from ms standard on windows for scanners and such rightMar 12 12:14
oiaohmTwian 2.0 is cross platform Linux and Mac including.Mar 12 12:14
oiaohmNot just MS anymore.Mar 12 12:14
josesure and what does that have to do with thisMar 12 12:14
oiaohmscantwain is the cross platform refrence thing.Mar 12 12:15
oiaohmThat you test your drivers against.Mar 12 12:15
josekeep goingMar 12 12:15
oiaohmOk I will have to cover a little history so you know what happened to twain.Mar 12 12:16
jose>> the availability of a robust, open source and production quality scanning application for use on the LINUX Operating System called ScanTWAIN.Mar 12 12:16
EruaranQt 3.x ?Mar 12 12:16
joseit's a project with old roots.. back to 2005 apparentlyMar 12 12:17
oiaohmThat is correct.Mar 12 12:17
josewhat i want to know is why is the project qt-ish yet the press release mentions mono?Mar 12 12:17
josedid i or did someone make a mistake somewhereMar 12 12:17
EruaranMaybe it has been infiltrated by mono dronesMar 12 12:17
josemaybe i'm looking at the wrong project or maybe it was misnamedMar 12 12:17
josedownload itMar 12 12:18
joselook insideMar 12 12:18
joseit's not that largeMar 12 12:18
jose10 - 20 cpp and h filesMar 12 12:18
joseis the bulk of itMar 12 12:18
joselook inside themMar 12 12:18
josethere is even a .kdevelop fileMar 12 12:18
josedid not see anything that might look like mono (i admit i might not recognize it if i did)Mar 12 12:19
oiaohmYou are looking at the front end not the driver.Mar 12 12:19
oiaohmYes evil of evil.  One driver everywhere.Mar 12 12:19
josecan you look at the press release and point out the problem? .. let me look againMar 12 12:19
jose>>Mar 12 12:19
joseLINUX distributions which are fully supported (user interface requires Mono Version 1.26 or higher):Mar 12 12:19
jose>> “Kodak is pleased to offer new image scanning capabilities and solutions via ScanTWAIN and our TWAIN 2.0 data source, or driver, for LINUX Operating Systems.”Mar 12 12:20
oiaohmScantwain don't include the drivers for the scanners.Mar 12 12:20
josethat's the name of the project scantwainMar 12 12:20
oiaohmscantwain is a front end.Mar 12 12:21
josethe press release says mono is needed for the guiMar 12 12:21
josei go and look at project by that name and it has gui of qtMar 12 12:21
oiaohmRead more carefully it is after supported drivers.Mar 12 12:21
josewhy don't you quoteMar 12 12:22
oiaohmTwain drivers can open up there own user interface.Mar 12 12:22
josei haven't slept much (running on 2 hrs and past due)Mar 12 12:22
josebut i don't see the mistake i might have madeMar 12 12:22
oiaohmSo you have Scantwain what is the interface to use the driver.Mar 12 12:22
oiaohmAnd the driver that also can put up a interface.Mar 12 12:22
oiaohmSo you need graphical interface support for both.Mar 12 12:23
oiaohmYes Twain driver design insanity.Mar 12 12:23
joselet me ask this.. how would i get to pop up the mono gui?Mar 12 12:24
josethrough sane? how exactly?Mar 12 12:24
joseis it a kodak propri interface?Mar 12 12:24
joseoiaohm, do you not see what i mean? why i can't find any mono anywhere?Mar 12 12:25
jose>> The ScanTWAIN scanning application is available via the SourceForge website and is issued under GPL, Gnu Public License, version 2.Mar 12 12:25


Recent Techrights' Posts

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