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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 3rd, 2009 - Part 1



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schestowitzMoles Watch: RNC, DataInfoCom, Symform and Microsoft < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05... >May 03 00:03
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/02/m... (Microsoft Shoves Internet Explorer 8 Down Users’ Throats, But What About Choice?)May 03 00:03
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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/... (Microsoft is Still Massively Evading Tax, Insider Trading Revisited)May 03 00:31
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danAnyone home?May 03 01:19
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ML2MST_dan: yup I'm at home ;-)May 03 01:29
*amarsh04 is at homeMay 03 01:30
ML2MST_Ah there are more people at home :-)May 03 01:31
ML2MST_WTF? messages are send twice :-(May 03 01:32
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twitterI thought I'd seen that book by Keith Curtis before.  He released it in December of 2008 and it was reviewed by the New York Times.  http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008...May 03 03:22
twitterI downloaded it at the time.  The only thing really impressive about the book is who wrote it.  The author was, at the time, a relative newcomer to the free software world.May 03 03:23
twitterI did not read the whole thing but it is most insightful when he's describing the mindset inside of M$:  Ignorance and loud, shout down, denial.May 03 03:24
twitterOther than that, he seems to have absorbed and regurgitated the writings from Perens, Raymond and other voices of the free software world.May 03 03:26
twitterFrom the NYT review:May 03 03:29
twitter" While he was at Microsoft, he had learned little about the open source world. In cafeteria conversation, he had usually taken the position that proprietary software would always maintain a technology lead over open source. He recalled a friend who had tried to install Linux in 1999, but gave up because the backspace key didn’t work. "May 03 03:29
twitter"After he left Microsoft, he installed a copy of the Linux operating system on a lark. His world was turned upside down. He spent three years exploring the open source world — reading, attending conferences, looking at source code and talking to the rank-and-file members of the open source community."May 03 03:29
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twitterGoogle searching for Keith Curtis mentions on Slashdot turns up this offensive troll http://slashdot.org/~Keith+CurtisMay 03 03:39
twitterI saw entries all the way back to 2004.May 03 03:39
twitterNice of the Softies to cover their former employee like that, isn't it?May 03 03:39
twitter2005, not 2004May 03 03:46
twitterthat would be right about the time he quit M$May 03 03:46
twitterWindows 7 Hype Log updated with XP VM news, which shows up their promises of compatibility.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/...May 03 04:06
twitterM$ Death Watch updated with Keith Curtis book news, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/...May 03 04:07
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the_mad_hatterRoy, it looks like LinuxHow2 is dead, so the links don't work. However Archive.org has copies. I think the links were from the article about Linux market share.May 03 07:06
schestowitzHeyMay 03 07:10
schestowitzI always notice you only after you leaveMay 03 07:10
the_mad_hatterStill here.May 03 07:11
schestowitzLinuxHow2 was silent for a long timeMay 03 07:11
schestowitzIt was decentMay 03 07:11
the_mad_hatterBTW, I hope you backed up the Wagener Edstrom shit, now that you've mentioned it, I bet it will disappear.May 03 07:11
schestowitzYesMay 03 07:11
schestowitzI have it on my desktopMay 03 07:12
the_mad_hatterYeah. As you noted, good news sites are going missing.May 03 07:12
schestowitzBut I can't just slap on in the Web site, can I?May 03 07:12
the_mad_hatterAnd many of the rest have been bought.May 03 07:12
schestowitzWell, nothing bought hereMay 03 07:12
schestowitzI have about 6 posts about MS to do nowMay 03 07:12
schestowitzIncluding this latest about MS buying reviewsMay 03 07:12
the_mad_hatterYou'd need to ask a lawyer. I think you could include frames if you added comment, that would come under fair use.May 03 07:12
the_mad_hatterBut yeah, I'd rate Wagener as Class 1 bastards.May 03 07:13
schestowitzWait until my next postMay 03 07:13
schestowitzGive me 2 minsMay 03 07:13
schestowitzThen tell me if you spt typos :-pMay 03 07:14
the_mad_hatterFYI, I'll try and drop in when I'm concious, but the damned pain killers mean that even when I'm upright, I may not be all that coherent.May 03 07:14
the_mad_hatterOKMay 03 07:14
schestowitzIt's about W-E alsoMay 03 07:14
the_mad_hatterGood. Nail the bastards.May 03 07:16
the_mad_hatterFYI, a lot of people say that software patents are a problem. They are wrong.May 03 07:16
the_mad_hatterThe problem is patents, period. Have you ever read any patents as uspto.gov?May 03 07:18
schestowitzOK doneMay 03 07:21
schestowitzYou'll like this one.May 03 07:21
schestowitzPatents, marketing, acquisitions...May 03 07:21
schestowitzAnything to avoid having to go through the nuisance of improving products...May 03 07:21
schestowitzaka "solutions"...May 03 07:21
schestowitzaka "innovations"..May 03 07:21
schestowitzMicrosoft is ‘Buying’ Blog Posts That Glorify Microsoft Windows http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0... May 03 07:22
the_mad_hatterthat's not quite my point. I read a lot of patents. more than 95% of the ones I read do not meet the USPTO rules for patentability.May 03 07:22
tessierthe_mad_hatter: Then how did they get patented?May 03 07:25
the_mad_hatterthe USPTO ignores the rules.May 03 07:25
tessierthe_mad_hatter: How is it that you read a lot of patents? Does your job require it somehow?May 03 07:25
tessierthe_mad_hatter: Are you a patent lawyer?May 03 07:25
the_mad_hatterYes. Technical Sales and Design.May 03 07:25
tessiercoolMay 03 07:26
the_mad_hatterNo, I am not a lawyer. But I can read.May 03 07:26
tessierI thought most companies advised their engineers/sales/product dev people not to read patentsMay 03 07:26
the_mad_hatterTake that stupid shit in KSR vs Teleflex. What was patented was the relocation of a switch.May 03 07:26
tessierBecause if you know you are violating the patent it becomes willful infringement which is much harder to defend and much more expensive if you loseMay 03 07:26
the_mad_hatterSince I set the policy, I get to do what I want.May 03 07:27
the_mad_hatterThat isn't totally true.May 03 07:28
the_mad_hatterAnd of course you can't design around a patent, unless you know what it says.May 03 07:30
schestowitztrue. Microsoft tells programmers not to read patentsMay 03 07:31
schestowitzIt advises against thatMay 03 07:32
schestowitzThat's how 'valuable' those 'innovations' areMay 03 07:32
the_mad_hatterOur engineers don't read patents. I'm in a different position.May 03 07:39
the_mad_hatterBut to get back to my point, the USPTO is breaking the law on several points:May 03 07:40
the_mad_hatter1) Patents have to represent working devices. There is a patent for a space ship drive that was issued, and no, it does not work.May 03 07:40
the_mad_hatter2) The device cannot be obvious. The vast majority of patents that I read are for obvious modifications of existing technology.May 03 07:41
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the_mad_hatter3) First Invented issues. In many cases devices are patented that already exist and are on the market place, see the Java Model Railroad case.May 03 07:42
the_mad_hatter3) continued - this is so common, and it is so hard to get an issued patent retracted even when proof is widely available, that the average person would scream if they knew how bad things are.May 03 07:43
the_mad_hatterThe system doesn't work.May 03 07:43
schestowitzMany say that all patentrs are stupidMay 03 07:44
schestowitzPeople who won Nobel prizedMay 03 07:44
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the_mad_hatterThe system does several trillions of dollars of damages to the US economy every year, and unless the system is shut down it's only going to get worse.May 03 07:44
schestowitz*sMay 03 07:44
schestowitzSeveral evenMay 03 07:44
schestowitzBut as sw engineers we  want to keep this mess outMay 03 07:45
schestowitzIt's also less abstractMay 03 07:45
schestowitzThus easy for people to writer without big equipmentMay 03 07:45
schestowitzReproducibility is anotherMay 03 07:45
the_mad_hatterI said that 95% of what I read was shit. The other 5% may have been, but was complexly enough written that I didn't understand it.May 03 07:45
schestowitzAnd then you have COPYRIGHTSMay 03 07:45
schestowitzThe Path to Mono-free GNOME-based Distributions is Foreseeable http://boycottnovell.com/2009/...May 03 07:45
the_mad_hatterActually, no, we don't want to keep this out. Think about it.May 03 07:45
the_mad_hatterHow do you define software?May 03 07:46
the_mad_hatterYou come up with a definition, and someone will come up with an alternative definition that he/she will argue is patentable.May 03 07:47
the_mad_hatterThe only way to handle patents, is the nuclear option. Nuke them all, till they glow in the dark.May 03 07:47
twitter" if you know you are violating the patent it becomes willful infringement which is much harder to defend and much more expensive if you lose"  hmmm.  Isn't willful ignorance the same as willful infringement?  The spirit is the same.May 03 07:47
the_mad_hatterNot before the courts at present. That may change. In our case, as I said, I tell the engineers what they can't do, and let them come up with alternatives.May 03 07:49
ushimitsudokiIt's also funny to go back into the early days of mono and see people from GNOME defending mono, saying there is "only one little app in the desktop release (tomboy) running on Mono." How foolish it was to think that mono-supporters were going to settle for "one little app", and how foolish it would be to think they are going to let what mono is already in gnome to be easily replacedMay 03 07:50
ushimitsudokiQuote from here: http://gnomesupport.org/forums/...May 03 07:50
ushimitsudokiLot of similar "don't worry it's just one small app" defense talk around the same time, thoughMay 03 07:50
bgtr4don't worry, it's just a small life in the eternityMay 03 07:52
the_mad_hatterThe Mono supporters sound more and more desperate.May 03 07:54
ushimitsudokiReally? I think they are very effective in confusing users and gaining acceptance. I'm quite concerned that banshee will be in next version of Ubuntu. They are well funded and organized.May 03 07:55
schestowitzSounds like you talk of Al QaedaMay 03 07:58
the_mad_hatterI agree there is reason to be concerned, and that you need fight this. But as I said, listen to the way they talk. They are scared.May 03 07:58
the_mad_hatterAnd they have reason to be scared. They've pissed of a few too many people, and when you do that, well, your acceptance level drops.May 03 07:58
the_mad_hatterAnd of course the Tom Tom case has opened some eyes.May 03 07:59
ushimitsudokiHeh. I don't want to draw that comparison. I'm just saying that mono-supporters are organized and have some $$ behind them. They aren't going to give up - but other users get tired of opposition, and just shrug and accept mono. I'd like to see a firm win like GNote actually replacing TomBoy in GNOME. Something like that would be very nice.May 03 08:00
ushimitsudokiRight now, I can't say I have seen mono lose anything major - sure, they have taken some hits, but they continue to get more mono apps in the core GNOME project, and slip mono apps into distros that aren't in gnome coreMay 03 08:01
the_mad_hatterSo we need to step up the opposition.May 03 08:03
the_mad_hatterAnyway, I gotta run. It's after 3 AM here, I gotta take the dogs for one more walk, and then, at least assuming that the pain let's me, try and get some sleep. Night all.May 03 08:04
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TheOpenSourcererHi Roy, not sure about this. It's a week or so old but did you see this? http://port25.technet.com/archive/2...May 03 08:11
TheOpenSourcererNFSv4 for Winblows...May 03 08:11
schestowitzLet me seeMay 03 08:14
schestowitzOh, I wrote about itMay 03 08:15
schestowitzTwice evenMay 03 08:15
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/...May 03 08:16
schestowitzAnd this: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04...May 03 08:16
schestowitzushimitsudoki: I was jokingly referring to "well funded and organized."May 03 08:17
schestowitzIt doesn't trranslate well into text thoughMay 03 08:17
bgtr4is mono a requirement in mandriva 2009.1?May 03 08:25
schestowitzMaybe for GNOMEMay 03 08:26
schestowitzXandros/Presto is Windows-Only, Xandros is Still Linux Shy < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/03/x... >May 03 08:27
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bgtr4i just read that mono is excluded from the requirements to oo in mdv 2009.1May 03 08:28
bgtr4wonder if there are other programs of common use that require monoMay 03 08:29
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amarsh04only packages mentioned in debian depending on libmono0 are beagle and f-spotMay 03 08:43
oiaohmThere are not many programs.May 03 08:44
amarsh04gfax, gnome-rdp, banshee, bless, drapes, gbrainy, giver, gshare, hipo, podsleuth, tangerine, tasque, tomboyMay 03 08:47
amarsh04that's about everything in Debian that depends on mono libs that aren't actually libs themselvesMay 03 08:48
oiaohmCompared to the numbers of C++ programs out there its really nothing.May 03 08:49
oiaohmLots of those programs have replacement options as well.May 03 08:49
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oiaohm.net is basically vb all over again.May 03 08:50
schestowitzMicrosoft Puts Live Shackles on Children in Thailand < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/0... >May 03 09:02
schestowitzbgtr4: not many programs in kde grab the mono stackMay 03 09:02
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oiaohmKDE uses python a lot.May 03 09:08
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schestowitzKiller Feature of Microsoft Windows: It Can Kill Patients: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/...May 03 09:50
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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/05... (Microsoft’s XBox Group Still Operates at a Loss, XBox Director Quits)May 03 10:11
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oiaohmCore systems in australian hospitals runs on Solarias.May 03 10:31
oiaohmIts the small medical pracs that have been effected by the worm.s.May 03 10:32
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schestowitzMaybe some laptops on Wi-FIMay 03 10:40
schestowitzCan DDOS some machines in their vicinity maybe :-)May 03 10:40
schestowitzIntranetMay 03 10:40
schestowitzHammer DNSMay 03 10:40
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schestowitzMicrosoft Faces “Strong Competition” Because It is Deep in Vapourware Mode < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/03/... >May 03 11:04
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oiaohmThey are not exactly in deep vapourwareMay 03 11:11
schestowitzWhy not?May 03 11:12
schestowitzOK, it's not as vapourish nowMay 03 11:12
schestowitzBut they already talk about Vista8May 03 11:12
oiaohmNothing is going how MS expected.  After Windows ME windows XP was a simple sale.   So MS though Windows 7 would be a simple sale after Vista.May 03 11:12
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schestowitzDon't forget they already move on to more promisesMay 03 11:12
oiaohmIe they tried to do a Windows ME sale method to XP.May 03 11:12
oiaohmWith Vista and Windows 7May 03 11:13
oiaohmMS has no repect that they are not the only house in town yet.May 03 11:13
schestowitzNo, they messed upMay 03 11:13
oiaohmBig time.May 03 11:13
oiaohmWindows 7 comared to Vista is a improvement.May 03 11:13
oiaohmCompared to Ubuntu its not much.May 03 11:15
oiaohmDisreguard you competition suffer.May 03 11:15
oiaohmAlso compared to XP not that much.May 03 11:15
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/03/... (Microsoft’s Online Business is Crumbling Even Further)May 03 11:25
schestowitz13709 pageviews in BN in the past 6 hoursMay 03 11:27
schestowitzMostly feed/rss readers (offline)May 03 11:27
schestowitzgtg bblMay 03 11:28
trmancohttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F...May 03 11:37
trmancothis caught my attention -> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/For...May 03 11:37
trmancoThere are serious concerns about Moonlight, due to Microsoft and Novell's public statements around its inclusion in their "covenant". In addition to that Groklaw has posted a FAQ from Software Freedom Law Center (SFLC) on the issues with this patent "covenant". Accordingly, this technology (with, or without codecs), is considered too risky, and is not acceptable for inclusion in Fedora.May 03 11:37
trmanco:DMay 03 11:37
trmanco>> " this technology (with, or without codecs), is considered too risky, and is not acceptable for inclusion in Fedora."May 03 11:38
trmanco.Net arse kicking hereMay 03 11:38
bgtr4seems like moonlight is all ova linux distros alreadyMay 03 11:40
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bgtr4if people were sane enough... they just left mono for opensuse aloneMay 03 11:41
trmancowell, excluding MS moonlight from fedora is a startMay 03 11:42
trmanconow, excluding mono would probably take more effort, they have mono boosters too in fedora I thinkMay 03 11:42
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bgtr4i really doubt that they will exclude monoMay 03 11:43
oiaohmAnything is possible.May 03 11:44
trmancoyepMay 03 11:46
trmancowe just need the right people to do this and make real decisionsMay 03 11:46
trmancothere is no need for f-spot or tomboy anymoreMay 03 11:46
trmancoso the hole mono stack in fedora is uselessMay 03 11:46
trmancoI've already heard that there will also be a f-spot port to c++, rumors maybe, but this is not really neededMay 03 11:47
oiaohmUpstreem rejection is the most harmful.  Ie getting the gnome project to turn on .net.May 03 11:48
bgtr4if gnome is on .net then people will turn to kde mostlyMay 03 11:49
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oiaohmWhy bgtr4May 03 12:00
oiaohmKde does not have great .net support.May 03 12:00
bgtr4it's interesting, what linus thinks about gnome being .net addicted?May 03 12:00
bgtr4.net... i didn't even want to learn it when i was developing for windowsMay 03 12:01
trmancoit's horribleMay 03 12:03
trmancoand slow as crapMay 03 12:03
bgtr4i knowMay 03 12:03
trmancoI'm forced to learn to program in that shit, you know...May 03 12:04
trmancoand use MFC's ... and use the bloated MSVCMay 03 12:05
bgtr4there's wtlMay 03 12:05
bgtr4msvc is easy to use for development and for me it's faster to write code with itMay 03 12:05
bgtr4but it costs too muchMay 03 12:06
trmancooh, I forgot to mention -> ExpressMay 03 12:06
trmanco...May 03 12:06
bgtr4oh lolMay 03 12:06
bgtr4i saw dat tooMay 03 12:06
trmanconot the real stuff, just MSVC expressMay 03 12:06
bgtr4it doesn't have wtl in itMay 03 12:06
bgtr4atl and mfcMay 03 12:07
trmancoyep, that's all you getMay 03 12:07
trmancoand you also get crappy syntax highlighting, even gedit can do a better jobMay 03 12:07
trmanco...May 03 12:07
bgtr4here in russia sw is almost free of chargeMay 03 12:07
bgtr4so there's wholetomato's visual assistMay 03 12:08
bgtr4very nice addonMay 03 12:08
trmancohmm, never heard of itMay 03 12:09
bgtr4developing with that addon in vc becomes pretty cosyMay 03 12:13
bgtr4cozyMay 03 12:13
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oiaohmQT is not exactly priceless.May 03 13:19
oiaohmBut at least you get cross platform for free what you don't get with MFC.May 03 13:19
schestowitztrmanco: who would be mono booster in Fedora?May 03 13:34
schestowitzI haven't come across anyMay 03 13:35
trmancoI wasn't sure of what I saidMay 03 13:35
trmancoI don't follow Fedora, but for them to include Mono by default, there has to be someone to package it, right?May 03 13:36
schestowitzI just haven't seen booster of Mono/MS there.May 03 13:37
schestowitzSlated was a packager thereMay 03 13:37
trmancoyes, but not for mono...May 03 13:41
oiaohmopensuse build systemMay 03 13:43
oiaohmBuilts pacakges for many different distributions at once.May 03 13:43
trmancospeaking of open suseMay 03 13:45
trmancoI have an account on suse studioMay 03 13:45
trmancothe idea is nice but the limited one distro thing sucksMay 03 13:45
trmancoyou can even test the live cd within your browserMay 03 13:46
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Sm...May 03 13:49
schestowitzCracy people out there... http://www.youtube.com/watch?... :-DMay 03 13:54
trmancowowMay 03 14:09
trmancokde 4 looks greatMay 03 14:09
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bgtr4lol, aliens secretly controlling the world XDMay 03 14:12
bgtr4i didn't watch any furtherMay 03 14:12
schestowitzbgtr4: waitMay 03 14:13
schestowitzWatch the responses to itMay 03 14:13
schestowitztrmanco: did you install it?May 03 14:13
trmancoschestowitz, testing it on some kind of vmMay 03 14:14
trmancohttp://node15.susestudio.com:32080/May 03 14:14
trmancoit might not work :|May 03 14:14
schestowitzNo, doesn't work for meMay 03 14:15
schestowitzAre you sure it's hypertext trnasfetr protocol?May 03 14:16
schestowitz*transferMay 03 14:16
trmancoyeah, you just need authMay 03 14:16
bgtr4schestowitz, what about comments? they're all stupedMay 03 14:22
bgtr4aw... responsesMay 03 14:23
bgtr4yeah, responses are saneMay 03 14:24
bgtr4reminds of south park seriesMay 03 14:25
bgtr4especially the first one XDMay 03 14:26
oiaohmhttp://darwinawards.com/darwi...  There are always a few less crazy after they win a darwin award.May 03 14:26
bgtr4it has better been darwinia awardsMay 03 14:29
bgtr4darwin sucksMay 03 14:29
*neonfloss has quit (Remote closed the connection)May 03 14:31
bgtr4aaaaa, i gotta download the latest south park series. didn't watch them for a year alreadyMay 03 14:37
bgtr4^ that was a notice for me mostly 'cause i'm drunkMay 03 14:43
schestowitzwhat, is it still running (SP)?May 03 14:45
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)May 03 14:51
trmancowho would like to use Firebug without installing the addon?May 03 14:57
trmancook, I seeMay 03 15:03
trmancohttp://getfirebug.com/lite.htmlMay 03 15:05
bgtr4schestowitz, it's sane, so it should be runningMay 03 15:06
bgtr4they killed futurama thoughMay 03 15:06
bgtr4long agoMay 03 15:06
bgtr4and i can't count new futurama series as continuationMay 03 15:07
bgtr4'cause new futurama just sucksMay 03 15:07
trmancohttp://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-websi...May 03 15:30
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-112-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovellMay 03 15:33
_Hicham_Hi schestowitz!May 03 15:34
schestowitzHey threre.May 03 15:34
trmancoCounting Lines: http://daviddahl.blogspot.com/20...May 03 15:36
twitterWSJ has the vapors  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB...May 03 15:51
twitterZune phone?  Someone please flush.May 03 15:51
twitterthey denied it http://mobile.blorge.com/2009/04/29/mic...May 03 15:53
twitterwhat a load, create a rumor, crush a rumor.  Most of what I read about M$ Mobile is about it being terrible and dumped.May 03 15:55
twitterAh ha.  I knew about the crushed strikes and protests on M$'s campus but I did not know this little factiod, "  In March, staffing agencies that work for Microsoft agreed to a 10 percent reduction in their bill rate."May 03 16:00
twitterhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/c...May 03 16:00
twitterSo they not only fired people and contractors, they squeezed the ones that they kept.May 03 16:01
twitterand it was still not enough....May 03 16:01
twitterthe rest of that article is about absolute wage decline, you know that deflationary stuff that happens in depressions.May 03 16:03
schestowitzyes, ms denies phoneMay 03 16:09
twitterGoogle trounces M$ in brand and reputation http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/cont...May 03 16:09
schestowitzyes, prices too will riseMay 03 16:10
schestowitzdollar fall when china and others dump itMay 03 16:10
twitterut oh.May 03 16:10
twitterno more cheap stuff off the boat?May 03 16:10
*schestowitz eats appleMay 03 16:10
twitteridiot advice http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/cont...May 03 16:20
twitterI'm amazed that you still have to jump through hoops to get pdf output in Winblows.May 03 16:21
twitterFree software on the platform seems to have it but really.... it's like M$ is out to kill the format or something Silverlie.May 03 16:21
twitterthe WP author also recommends going with IE8. I suppose anyone who will tell you to stick with Windows would also tell you to use IE.May 03 16:23
twitter"  gruesomely obsolete IE "  Yeah, a browser without tabs feels like something from 1994.May 03 16:25
twitterIE 7 is not much better.May 03 16:25
twitterIE 8, I'm sure, is more of the same.May 03 16:25
schestowitzHmmm...May 03 16:26
schestowitzHe forgot other browsers?May 03 16:26
schestowitzThe author has some Linux affinity thoughMay 03 16:26
_Hicham_anyone in here with previous experience with GTK and OpenGL?May 03 16:27
*silentivm (n=renan@189.58.192.55.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellMay 03 16:32
twitterthe point is just how pre-historic the Windows experience feels.May 03 16:34
twitterno reasonable printer output, no tabs in web browsers, no virtual desktopsMay 03 16:35
twitterit's like falling into a wormhole and emerging 15 years ago.May 03 16:35
twitterBallmer watch.  Sweaty is going to North Carolina research triangle next June.  http://www.charlotteobserver.com/...May 03 16:37
twittermust be an "infestation" ongoing.May 03 16:37
twitterThat Business Week article about medical records seems to have conveniently forgotten to mention M$ while naming Google and slamming other vendors.May 03 16:38
twitterFunny how M$ is crowing about their medical record vapor at the same time.  http://arstechnica.com/business/news/200...May 03 16:39
twitterthat is the power of M$ spin.May 03 16:39
twittergrab a reputable name while damning the competitors.May 03 16:39
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-112-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has left #boycottnovellMay 03 16:40
twitterImagine typing your social security number into Windows to access your medical records.. shudder.May 03 16:40
bgtr4lolMay 03 16:44
bgtr4imagine yourself keeping a worldwide identification chip in your body to access anything with m$ behind that allMay 03 16:45
*mib_o9z6g2 (i=a03e040a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-378f7457187d80dd) has joined #boycottnovellMay 03 16:45
twittermooo cow.May 03 16:46
bgtr4lolMay 03 16:46
bgtr4it's booMay 03 16:46
twitterM$'s idea of a "Commons" is a mall.May 03 16:46
bgtr4idk what this sentence meanMay 03 16:46
twitterhttp://www.komonews.com/news/43323737.htmlMay 03 16:46
twitterget your M$ flavored soup.May 03 16:47
twitterM$ only, no one else allowed!May 03 16:47
twitterM$ is all about exclusion.May 03 16:47
*mib_unc0xv (i=4ab85d8b@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-70f5ce0a99b25fdd) has joined #boycottnovellMay 03 16:48
*mib_unc0xv has quit (Client Quit)May 03 16:48
twitterI thought that was supposed to open a few weeks ago.  No bar, ha ha.May 03 16:48
bgtr4i gonna live in medieval time, i won't accept m$May 03 16:48
twitterRun windows and you will live in the 90s.May 03 16:49
bgtr4lol, kinda not and yeah at the same timeMay 03 16:50
twitterIf you count the C: notation, where network connections pretend they are floppy drives sitting on top of your box, you are actually living in the 80sMay 03 16:50
bgtr4i'm still living in 90s mentallyMay 03 16:50
bgtr4even in 80sMay 03 16:50
twitterbroadcast is like that.May 03 16:50
*Habbaz has quit (Client Quit)May 03 16:50
bgtr4i liked that timeMay 03 16:50
bgtr4A LOTMay 03 16:50
twitteryou should enjoy every dayMay 03 16:51
bgtr4but i can't cope with drm and m$ taking ova everythingMay 03 16:51
*mib_o9z6g2 has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")May 03 16:51
twitterthat is frustratingMay 03 16:51
bgtr4lolMay 03 16:51
twitteryou will feel better if you do something about it.May 03 16:51
bgtr4so it's fun and frustrating at teh same timeMay 03 16:52
twitterI'm so laughing at the M$ commons.May 03 16:52
bgtr4it's my lifeMay 03 16:52
twitterCompare it to Google's cafeteria and other perks.May 03 16:52
twitterM$, come spend some money in your new Mall.May 03 16:52
twitterGoogle:  here, have some good food.May 03 16:53
bgtr4lolMay 03 16:53
bgtr4free food is only in the mice-catchersMay 03 16:53
bgtr4google is yet another m$ with even better liesMay 03 16:53
schestowitz>>> <twitter> no reasonable printer output, no tabs in web browsers, no virtual desktopsMay 03 16:53
twitterwhat kind of moron tries to use a laptop while having a hair cut?May 03 16:53
schestowitzI might .sig thatMay 03 16:53
twittercool, RoyMay 03 16:54
bgtr4even though i use gmail for work and registrations and not personal stuffMay 03 16:54
bgtr4'cause i don't kare about work and registrations and not personal stuffMay 03 16:55
schestowitzre: "Microsoft CEO knows Charlotte's place to be" --anything 'funny' here?May 03 16:55
twitterCharlotte is supposed to be a nice place.May 03 16:56
schestowitzMicrosoft's mall feels like a cult, elitistMay 03 16:56
bgtr4schestowitz, m$ ceos already know everything about m$May 03 16:56
twittersnip snip snip, why won't my shift key work anymore?  better code a touper  http://media.komonews.com/images/0...May 03 16:56
schestowitzWhy share when you can make exclusive clubMay 03 16:56
schestowitzUs peons can't invade them programmers of MAFIAA's DRM.May 03 16:56
bgtr4but they are willing to sell themselves for moneyMay 03 16:56
schestowitz[in reponse] But malls ARE like the churches in much of the StatesMay 03 16:57
twittergetten FAT at the mall.May 03 16:57
schestowitzIt's a common argument that people socialise around commerce when they are raised to be that wayMay 03 16:58
bgtr4don't mix true churches with smth artificialMay 03 16:58
bgtr4that looks like itMay 03 16:58
twitterI've never understood why some people think of shopping as a form of entertainment.May 03 16:58
bgtr4s0c1alise...May 03 16:58
bgtr4they live like thatMay 03 16:59
bgtr4that's the only thing that they are capable ofMay 03 16:59
bgtr4moneyMay 03 16:59
schestowitzIt's not for people to thinkMay 03 16:59
schestowitzIt's for people to be told what to thinkMay 03 16:59
schestowitzAnd how to admire or judge peopleMay 03 16:59
bgtr4lolMay 03 16:59
schestowitzVideo clips have that effect tooMay 03 16:59
bgtr4no?May 03 16:59
twitterhanging out at market places older than the Agora, but it was a free and open placeMay 03 16:59
bgtr4it's more than thatMay 03 17:00
twitterexclusivity is pure greedMay 03 17:00
bgtr4but it's still moneyMay 03 17:00
schestowitzIt goes back o glamorisation of consumption in the early 20th century.May 03 17:00
schestowitzYou could raise kids to alienate spenders if you chracterise them as environment parasitesMay 03 17:00
schestowitzIt all boils down to educationMay 03 17:00
schestowitzThere was experiments around all thatMay 03 17:00
bgtr4lol, there were plenty of experimentsMay 03 17:01
schestowitzYesMay 03 17:01
schestowitzBut trying to raise siblings separately in different environments/conditionsMay 03 17:01
bgtr4so funny to read this stuff in boycottnovell. people are talking very sane things but not yet grown up enoughMay 03 17:01
schestowitzTo see how much of one's behaviour is imposed and what it inherentMay 03 17:01
schestowitzLike fear of the dark for exampleMay 03 17:01
bgtr4and by "grown up" i mean grown up in understanding what this world isMay 03 17:02
schestowitzWho? Us?May 03 17:02
bgtr4and i hate what's going with this worldMay 03 17:02
bgtr4yup, schestowitzMay 03 17:02
schestowitzbgtr4: wait, let me get this rightMay 03 17:02
bgtr4you're doing allrightMay 03 17:02
bgtr4going way upMay 03 17:02
schestowitzAcceptance leads to biased judgmentMay 03 17:02
bgtr4i'm just looking at it all from aboveMay 03 17:02
bgtr4and i'm biasedMay 03 17:03
twitterlol, I think someone just told me to grow up.May 03 17:03
schestowitz"People said I should accept the world. Bullshit! I don't accept the world." -- Richard StallmanMay 03 17:03
schestowitzRMS never left MITMay 03 17:03
bgtr4biased towards good way that you acceptMay 03 17:03
schestowitzSame with others like ChomskyMay 03 17:03
bgtr4rms is immature thenMay 03 17:03
schestowitzIt doesn't mean they are stupidMay 03 17:03
bgtr4you either accept the world or it fucks you up until you accept XDMay 03 17:03
twitterRMS has made the world he wants.  Thats a very adult thing to do.May 03 17:03
schestowitzThey don't need to work for some tyranny or join the army to be able to criticise itMay 03 17:03
twitterLiving in the world others make for you is childish.May 03 17:04
bgtr4actually, nopeMay 03 17:04
bgtr4children can as well be open/closed to anythingMay 03 17:04
bgtr4it's just that children didn't lose belief in themselvesMay 03 17:05
twitterYou've convinced me. I think I'm going to go jump in my SUV and buy something at the mall.  That way, I'll feel like I'm part of the community.May 03 17:05
bgtr4nope?May 03 17:05
schestowitz:-DMay 03 17:05
schestowitzbgtr4: ousiders' view can helpMay 03 17:05
schestowitzWhere are you from if you don't mind me asking?May 03 17:05
schestowitzMany cultures look at us negatievlyMay 03 17:05
schestowitzAnd they have reasonable judtificationMay 03 17:05
schestowitzAn African, for example, might say we're too isolatedMay 03 17:06
schestowitzAnimals were not meant to be this wayMay 03 17:06
schestowitzWe cherish guns and money rather than folklore (well, many of us do)May 03 17:06
schestowitzFootball is considered tribal to some. Fast food is another oddityMay 03 17:06
bgtr4guns are allright to fight with government passivelyMay 03 17:06
schestowitzAll that judgment can actually make 'civilised' culture seem very abnormalMay 03 17:07
schestowitzRemember China+India make us like over 1/3 of the worldMay 03 17:07
schestowitz*upMay 03 17:07
schestowitzFight with government?May 03 17:07
schestowitzMakes no senseMay 03 17:07
bgtr4?May 03 17:07
schestowitzGovernment is the shadow cast upon people by other 'big people'May 03 17:08
bgtr4don't you understand that?May 03 17:08
schestowitzLike CEOs on top of large tyrannies like ExxonMay 03 17:08
schestowitzBut that's another long storyMay 03 17:08
bgtr4government is a self sufficient entityMay 03 17:08
bgtr4and it was always like thatMay 03 17:08
schestowitzIt's subsidiaryMay 03 17:08
bgtr4ALWAYSMay 03 17:08
schestowitzThe police+army weird power in Police StateMay 03 17:08
schestowitzBut otherwise they can act at the behest of power and might of multintionalMay 03 17:09
schestowitzThey usually _do_May 03 17:09
schestowitzbgtr4: well, here's another wayMay 03 17:09
twitterOMG.  The bridge to M$ was designed to connect M$ campus to the M$ mall.  http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mic...May 03 17:09
twitterholy fucking shit.May 03 17:09
schestowitzTo say government you need to think of it as bunch of seatsMay 03 17:09
bgtr4...May 03 17:09
schestowitzThose who accomodate those vacancies are either ex-executives or their friends/cronies/lunch partner, etc.May 03 17:10
twitterthey convinced the city, state and federal government to build them a bridge to their private mall!May 03 17:10
schestowitztwitter: and the mall if MS-onlyMay 03 17:10
schestowitzMS did a big PR campignMay 03 17:10
schestowitzHaving some voices from the area saying it's not only for MSMay 03 17:10
twitter For now, workers on the east side of 520 can head west by crossing the overpass at Northeast 40th Street or taking a Microsoft shuttle.  The company is planning to build a bridge over the freeway. The bridge, to be completed next year, would run from Northeast 36th Street on the west to Northeast 31st Street on the east.  Those plans continue even after Microsoft announced 5,000 job cuts and scrapped some real-estate expansion planMay 03 17:10
schestowitzIt's for the citizens too, they remarkedMay 03 17:10
schestowitzYeah... maybe to watch from over the fence with the "no dogs and non-MS employees allowed on the premises"May 03 17:11
twitteryeah, any "citizen" who happens to work on one side of M$'s campus and wants to visit the M$ only mall on the other side.May 03 17:11
bgtr4what's m$ population at 2k and 2009 years?May 03 17:11
twitterdaytime population of 50,000 according to quoted articleMay 03 17:11
schestowitz90kMay 03 17:11
schestowitzNot muchMay 03 17:11
schestowitzIBM is over 300kMay 03 17:11
schestowitzEven Siemans is bigger IIRCMay 03 17:12
schestowitzMS just makes a lot of pressMay 03 17:12
schestowitzLike oiaohm says, it's a marketing companyMay 03 17:12
bgtr4strange...May 03 17:12
twitterShow me a town of 50,000 people elsewhere in the US that merits a bridge to a private mall.May 03 17:12
schestowitzRelying on crime, cheating, acisitions of products (pseudo development) and MARKETING.May 03 17:12
twitterFraud for a living.May 03 17:12
schestowitzThe lawyers come into place when the crime becomes too visible and you need to take overMay 03 17:12
schestowitzGoogle is similar BTWMay 03 17:13
bgtr4they would have to kill each otherMay 03 17:13
schestowitz20k employeesMay 03 17:13
schestowitzBuying its way into the marketMay 03 17:13
schestowitzPeople LOVE GOOG because of search productMay 03 17:13
schestowitzNumber 1 brnad in US nowMay 03 17:13
schestowitzOver $100bn for the brnad aloneMay 03 17:13
schestowitzThey rely on itMay 03 17:13
twitteryeah, it's interesting how people like things that work and do useful thingsMay 03 17:13
bgtr4twitter, and they don't think what's behind thatMay 03 17:14
schestowitzThey can make sub-standard products like Apps and people will give other SaaS suites the pass because "it's not Google"May 03 17:14
twitterGoogle's monopoly is not forced, it is natural.May 03 17:14
bgtr4REALLY?May 03 17:14
schestowitzI agree with bgtr4 May 03 17:14
schestowitzTo an extentMay 03 17:14
schestowitzYou're pressed to competeMay 03 17:14
twitterreally, who forces you to use Google?May 03 17:14
bgtr4lolMay 03 17:15
schestowitzYou'd need capital of like 50bn just to build indexed and DCsMay 03 17:15
bgtr4twitter, i hope you didn't want to ask thatMay 03 17:15
schestowitz*dexesMay 03 17:15
schestowitzGoogle is another problem altogetherMay 03 17:15
twitterIt's not like OEMs are forced to install Google only search bars and you can't buy computers that work with Google competitors.May 03 17:15
schestowitzMS: technical lockinMay 03 17:15
schestowitzForce of use via patents, no interopMay 03 17:15
schestowitzGoogle is habitual dependenciesMay 03 17:16
schestowitzIf it kills ad/search competition, which it might do, then it's another scenarioMay 03 17:16
twitterGoogle continues to exist and thrive despite M$'s long efforts to crush them.May 03 17:16
twitterPeople go to great lengths to use Google on M$ platforms.May 03 17:16
schestowitzGoogle is scary to some startupsMay 03 17:16
bgtr4google will not be taken by m$ just because it's funded and there's quite a different idea behind thatMay 03 17:16
schestowitzMostly Web/mashup companiesMay 03 17:16
schestowitzbenJIman: Taken by?May 03 17:17
schestowitz*bgMay 03 17:17
schestowitzIt's almost the same market cap nowMay 03 17:17
schestowitzIf anything, Google could one day by MSFTMay 03 17:17
schestowitzSome people joke about itMay 03 17:17
twitterFUDMay 03 17:17
schestowitzBut look at Sun 8 years laterMay 03 17:17
twitterthe problems are network freedom relatedMay 03 17:18
twitterand M$May 03 17:18
bgtr4dudes, you're talking so many smart words, i've to look them in the dictionary even though i intuitively understand what they meanMay 03 17:18


Recent Techrights' Posts

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Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Richard Stallman's Next Public Talk is on Friday, 17:30 in Córdoba (Spain), FSF Cannot Mention It
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On DebConf and Debian 'Bedroom Nepotism' (Connected to Canonical, Red Hat, and Google)
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Links 23/04/2024: Escalations Around Poland, Microsoft Shares Dumped
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Amaya Rodrigo Sastre, Holger Levsen & Debian DebConf6 fight
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Windows in Sudan: From 99.15% to 2.12%
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[Meme] The 'Cancel Culture' and Its 'Hit List'
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in Vietnam Windows is at 8%, in Iraq 4.9%, Syria 3.7%, and Yemen 2.2%
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An Unfortunate Miscalculation Of Capital
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[Video] Online Brigade Demands That the Person Who Started GNU/Linux is Denied Public Speaking (and Why FSF Cannot Mention His Speeches)
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Links 21/04/2024: Censorship Abundant, More Decisions to Quit Social Control Media
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