Bonum Certa Men Certa

Will Wayland Even Survive the Collapse of IBM? X11 Likely Will.

Reprinted with permission from Ryan Farmer

One of IBM’s stated reasons for pulling investments in actually important Linux software is that they need to focus on Wayland.



I recently read on the mailing list, one of the Wayland developers basically admitting that they break the APIs and ABI all the time and usually don’t even get much “mileage”, so to speak, out of doing it. This shows, to me, that they rushed it out the door way before it was ready.



Developers tend to have noticed this. However, IBM doesn’t care. Their goal is to throw their weight around and make everyone use Wayland, even though it’s horribly broken.



All of the hideous things that X11 does were either fixed by extensions and patching over the last 39 years or don’t really matter much anymore.



In some cases, complaints about how X11 does things that “justified” starting over don’t even happen anymore.



For example, one of the Wayland developers (in an article that propagated to Phoronix) used an example of Flash and Java being subwindows of the Web browser.



Well, NPAPI (and Chrome’s version, PPAPI) is dead.



For better or worse, everything that an NPAPI (PPAPI) plug-in did is handled by the browser and the browser window now, so we no longer run into this problem in the window that IBM Red Hat says is the only one on your screen that matters.



(Because downloading an entire office program into your browser, which needs networking and someone else’s permission to continue running, is cool and modern.)



It dawned on me that while I was trying to get Fallout 4 working (in my recent post), almost all of the serious issues with the game that weren’t just some package that didn’t come pre-installed on openSUSE were actually Wayland problems, and not just Wayland problems, XWayland problems.



XWayland has its own special problems while running on Wayland that don’t happen when you just run your window manager on X11 directly.



Is X11 old? Sure. Does it matter much? Not if you ask me, as a user.



I would much rather have SeaMonkey and other X11 applications show up clean, crisp, clear, and scaled right, than smudgy and vaguely reminiscent of “Microsoft Glaucoma-vision”, which is what I refer to as the way Windows 10 and 11 scale things incorrectly and then put “Vaseline on the fonts”. This is just shoddy craftsmanship.



If you can believe this shit, Microsoft actually patented that (since expired), and called it a feature. It looked like the original edit of Star Wars where Luke Skywalker was hovering around on his speeder on Tatooine and George Lucas said they hid the wheels under it by smearing a blob of Vaseline on the camera lens.



Wine, which is a very important program to me, runs Windows programs. It uses X11.



When it runs on XWayland it picks up lag and stability problems and passes them along to the Windows programs and games I want to run.



When I double-click on Fallout or something, I want my game to run. Not skip frames and then jitter and die because XWayland doesn’t work properly, STILL.



One of the reasons I give to Windows users for why they should switch to Linux is that I’ve had really good luck with Wine. Wine is still not ported over to use Wayland and it’s not clear when or if it will ever be.



The openSUSE project avoided so much drama, so many difficult people, and so much political nonsense and technical problems by remaining with KDE and bothering to ship a version of it you can use.



One of the reasons IBM Red Hat dropped KDE entirely is that they were hoping to inflict a mortal wound, the same reason IBM supported defamation of an elderly man (Richard Stallman, who is 70.) and then stopped paying for GNU software development, but they still “freeload” off it.



Roy Schestowitz tells me he’s rarely seen IBM hiring Germans who have worked on KDE.



That’s fine by me if it’s true. That just means that we won’t have the most competent people going to work for IBM, being told to do dumb pointless redundant broken shit with GNOME and Wayland, and hiding under a desk when the Pointy Hair Boss goes by laying people off.



If Wayland still isn’t working right after 15 years, if it still behaves like some bugged, crummy, perpetual beta software, when will it work right?



I’m actually amused that IBM Red Hat considers it so production ready that it’s been in “Enterprise Linux” for a while.



Sure, as a user of an Enterprise Linux clone (or RHEL), you could fight your way like a salmon swimming upstream, using the last of its energy and time on Earth to lay eggs and die, fixing all of the really terrible engineering decisions IBM has made for you.



Some of the clones support BtrFS and DTrace (Oracle), and I think KDE is available as unofficial packages, but I think the Enterprise Desktop really deserves better software, and the developers of openSUSE realize that moving crackpot shit like Wayland over to a stable Linux distro just turns it into “Fedora with older packages”.



Some distributions, especially Red Hat, have this odd sort of definition of stability.



This definition means the software might be full of bugs, it might glitch, but at least it doesn’t change much. To those ends, IBM even ignores security patches.



And I guess I can see why you would shove Wayland in a desktop on an enterprise distro, when soon after, you divest from desktop work anyway.



It can load Firefox. It’s perfect. Firefox loads Office 365. Firefox and Office 365 are the only two things people should want to use.



What? You want to run software? On your computer? Oh…



It’s true that maybe in some tortured way, years from now, it will replace most of what X11 can do and, maybe someday Wine will work properly with XWayland. But it’s still not now.



Even on Fedora with GNOME I was still running into Wayland problems.



I wouldn’t be surprised if X11 outlives Fedora, RHEL, IBM, and on into the next century.



It’s become a fixture, like an old refrigerator that never breaks down.



KWin running so reliably on X11, mostly at parity with all of the redundant work just needed to get it working at all on Wayland (except that the Wayland version of the code isn’t quite stable), sort of proves that this has all been rather something of a misadventure of negative work that’s gone on for years.



IBM has been throwing out a lot of FUD about X11 being “abandoned”, but the mailing lists tell a story of something that still gets a lot of development attention considering that it’s 39 years old and feature complete, in ways that would only matter if you’re actually running it, and not just XWayland.



Even the Direct Rendering Infrastructure and DDX stuff for some video cards from the 90s just got updates last month. And that goes out pretty far from the core code.



As Free Software, X11 can live as long as it’s still useful. Nobody can “take it away” or force you to stop using it.



Finally…



Security! Everyone’s favorite refuge for when they’ve lost all their other arguments.



Sure Wayland can stop applications from reading input events from the other ones.



At least in theory, it can. Everything can be broken. There’s always bugs.



However, I just simply don’t care. This isn’t Windows (where applications can literally just dump dlls into each other and load malware into Firefox, for example).



I don’t have “Linux malware” because I haven’t installed any.



So to me, this “reason” to have Wayland is another fallacious argument.



This same “security feature” is one of the reasons why people have to fall back to X11 to make legitimate software work. So adding “security” that breaks too many real legitimate things is what Linus Torvalds (before they made him go to “therapy” he didn’t need” called “Masturbating Monkeys”).



It’s up there with “Secure Boot” and “attestations”.



But that’s a whole different story. ⬆



Recent Techrights' Posts

Losses From Slop Are "Investment", Hundreds of Billions in Debt Are "Growth Opportunity", Layoffs Are "Great to See", and Loss of Business Means "We Need a Slowdown" (for "Safety")
Microsoft is removing staff, as investment is apparently the act of shrtinking
Brigading Against Women - Part XII - Toxic Masculinity, Hunting Women, Will Code for Sex
Who says things like these?
The Microsoft Lunduke Slop Problem
Microsoft Lunduke does not support Software Freedom; he serves to discredit many ideas championed by Free software or ideals articulated which are apolitical for the most part
CDMAG Covers Free Software, New Magazine From Decent People
If enough people accessed their site, they would not rely on social control media (third parties, censorship platforms)
Brigading Against Women - Part XI - An Abject Lack of Social Skills (and Not Knowing How to Handle Women)
GGG enjoy - if that's the right term - very bizarre or esoteric sex life
 
Slop-Posting is a New Form of S---posting
We recently caught several more "linux" sites (with "linux" in their domain name) turning to slop
EPO Cocainegate: Lots of Money (Over a Million Euros) for Cocaine Addicts, Not for Children With Special Needs
Next month we'll bring out some more Campinos scandals
High Court victory: Nigel Farage is 'the Company's own candidate'
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
It Took GNOME's Code of Conduct Committee (CoCC) Over 8 Months to Realise CoC Reports Went Into /dev/null/
It would be ironic if the blunder's culprits were punished for it, would it not?
Links 30/09/2026: Microsoft "OpenAI Ignored Employees’ Warnings About Safely" and "Pentagon Personnel Agency Data Breach Impacts 3 Million People"
Links for the day
The Register MS "Events" As Paid Spam That Promotes and Keeps Afloat Hype About Slop
This dreary sort of media reads like a soup of words, i.e. like the thing it is advertising
Digital Independence in the UK and in Western Europe
We have the technical capacity and skilled personnel to achieve this
IBM's Anderon as a Mass Layoffs Ritual With a Bailout (From US Taxpayers to IBM) and Other Perks
Like those empty promises in the first term of the Cheeto dictator
Gemini Links 30/09/2026: David Bowie, Web Rendering Proxy, Ink and Letters, Gemlog Nostalgia
Links for the day
EPO Annual General Meeting (AGM) Will Speak of Financial State of the EPO's Union
Their work is needed because the EPO breaks the law
Rust Causes Upgrade Issues in Ubuntu
They could just keep GNU coreutils in place (nothing was broken about it) and avoid Microsoft's back doors and TPMs
Links 30/09/2026: "Understanding the LLM Bubble" and "Florida Senate Threatened Legal Action Against Newspapers"
Links for the day
It Looks Like Mass Layoffs at "Nordcloud, an IBM Company" Today (a Day Ahead of Red Hat)
Expect the same from Red Hat next
British Prime Minister Recognises Social Control Media as National Cohesion Problem
one has to wonder if addiction to social control media is not compatible with peace
The Future Isn't Social Control Media (Nothing Will be Left of It, Not Even Archives)
"Error code: 502 Bad Gateway"
GNU/Linux Usage in China is Increasing
China is leaving Microsoft and Windows behind
43 Years of GNU and GAFAM's (Especially Microsoft's) Attacks On It
GNU is very widely used (when people say "Linux commands" they typically mean "GNU programs"), hence it's being attacked a lot
Gemini Links 30/09/2026: Accelerationism, "The Billionaire is Wrong", Rant About LLM-generated Support E-mails
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, September 29, 2026
IRC logs for Tuesday, September 29, 2026
Black Brit on "Pictures Comparing Me to a Monkey" Because of Brett Wilson LLP Client
"Like Firm, Like Clients..."
President of the EPO Should be Kicked Out, Not Have His Term Terminated in 2028
The President is facing more scandals soon
David Gordon at The Register MS Keeps Feeding the Pyramid Scheme With Fake Articles That Say "AI" Dozens of Times
How can such a publisher still be taken seriously?
The Local Staff Committee The Hague (LSCTH) at the EPO Explains the Working Conditions and Crisis of Plunder (Less for Workers, a Lot More for Dictators Who Refuse to Leave Leadership Roles)
Next week will be epic
EPO Will Stop Working for 10 Days to Protest Against 'Cocaine King' and His Assault on Democracy, Lawfulness, Transfer of Power at EPO
Strikes, work stoppage, all rolled onto one
IBM Brings Avalanche to Red Hat October 1st 2026 (Thursday)
IBM is turning up the heat on staff
Links 29/09/2026: Mass Layoffs at Microsoft and Backlash Over Data Center Policy of Microsoft
Links for the day
Techrights is International
There are many sites that focus on local communities or nations. We're not one of those sites.
5 Years Ago (September 29, 2021) Richard Stallman's Talk in Ukraine Noted
Let's hope the war will end soon
Links 29/09/2026: Acceleration, Morale, and ROOPHLOCH 2026
Links for the day
Links 29/09/2026: "Scam Altman Is Driving Drunk" and Anthropic Lies About Slop Usage
Links for the day
Brigading Against Women - Part X - When Actions of American Men Are Not Judged by Other American Men
"There is not the slightest suggestion that either Dr or Mrs Schestowitz did anything to invite or deserve it. They are both clearly and justifiably angered, dismayed, distressed and hurt by it."
European Patent Office (EPO) Series: A Source of Pride for Portugal?
In this part our focus returns to the main theme of this series, namely the current reappointment campaign of the EPO President, as we consider whether Campinos can still expect to enjoy the same level of support from the Portuguese political establishment as he did during the earlier stages of his career
Computers Freeze Because of UEFI Restricted Boot
damage is also done to computers running Windows
It is Very Expensive to Slow Down Techrights
Garrett's expensive hearing (costing the British taxpayers about 120,000 pounds; he doesn't live here and does not pay tax here) slowed us down for a few days, but we've picked up the pace since
Linux Has Conquered Mobile, But Desktops and Laptops Matter More
When people say the desktop "doesn't matter" they seem to be missing the point that workplaces use desktops (or laptops) and a lot of the work gets done not on skinnerboxes but "workstations" or terminals
Brigading Against Women - Part IX - "What Are You, a Racist?"
Because behind every strong man is a strong opinion?
Gemini Links 29/09/2026: "Digital Sabbath", Starting a GemCapsule, and Sterrenkijker 1.1.0
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, September 28, 2026
IRC logs for Monday, September 28, 2026
Brigading Against Women - Part VIII - Misogyny Embedded; Like Firm, Like Clients
It's about back doors
Chaos Imminent at Red Hat (This Week)
IBM is 'finishing the job' an ex-IBMer (Ron Hovsepian) did at Novell.
Microsoft Can PIP Workers (Silent Layoffs) Until Almost Nobody is Left
Microsoft is gradually vanishing
The Cyber Show Says Truth Always Requires a Fight, a Struggle
"Truth-tellers always face struggle and run risk"
Maladministration at the EPO as a Crisis for the EU and for Portugal's Image in Europe
Some time soon we'll publish a long article about what EPO leadership means to Portugal
3 Years of UK Hosting
We commend the webhost for standing firm in the face of misogyny
Tech Labeled "Smart" Does Not Make People Smart
People who insist on making everything digital are not advancing progress
Gemini Links 28/09/2026: Truncated Sleep, Plain Text, and Slop Problem Kept Out of Geminispace
Links for the day
Links 28/09/2026: "A Growing North Korea Problem" and Independent Journalism as a Lifeline
Links for the day
Links 28/09/2026: Microsoft Chatbot "Giving Extremely Specific Advice to a School Shooter on How to Maximize Casualties", ‘Suicidal Empathy’
Links for the day
Microsoft's Attacks on Courts in the Netherlands Result in GNU/Linux Growing to About 10% There
One core issue that justified this and led to this outcome is Microsoft's interference with the administration of justice
They Create the Conditions for People to Leave, This Way They Don't Call it "Layoffs"
We keep seeing many stories like these
Gemini Links 28/09/2026: Wildfire, DOS, and Backups
Links for the day
Brigading Against Women - Part VII - 'Trolling' Courts and Legal Systems in America and in the UK (Europe) Costs a Lot to Taxpayers
They only attend hearings after being arrested
European Patent Office (EPO) Series: The Portuguese Talent For Bureaucratic Empire Building
Portugal’s success in securing senior executive appointments at the EUIPO and the EPO is a notable example of how countries seek to strengthen their influence within European intergovernmental institutions
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, September 27, 2026
IRC logs for Sunday, September 27, 2026