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09.18.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 16-17th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 1:08 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz Upgrade intercepted by lawyers. Sep 15 22:41
AVRS2 For those who don’t go looking at the paragraphs, they are about privacy policy (with a link, which makes user suffer from the bug) and phishing protection. Sep 15 22:45
AVRS2 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=432798 – thorough (sp?) description of the bug Sep 15 22:46
AVRS2 But since nobody looks at EULAs, nobody tests them, and it’s been accidentally only fixed on non-Linux platforms. Sep 15 22:48
schestowitz Mozilla gives a low priority to GNU/Linux. I once saw their list. Sep 15 22:56
AVRS2 schestowitz: seen https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422959 ? Sep 15 22:57
AVRS2 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422959#c8 point 15 ;) Sep 15 22:59
AVRS2 “This is incredibly Linux-centric and shows a basic disrespect for the desires of Mac users in general.” Sep 15 22:59
MinceR the desires of typical mac users deserve nothing but disrespect anyway. Sep 15 23:01
AVRS2 That makes it look like it (is|was at that point) not all that bad… or that which MinceR just said Sep 15 23:01
schestowitz Asa Dotzler  at #19. I don’t like him. Sep 15 23:03
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2007/10/25/… Sep 15 23:04
AVRS2 the last msg in his blog: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/20… Sep 15 23:04
MinceR (rationale: afaict the desires of typical mac users revolve around themes of ‘must be shiny’, ‘must have shiny apple logo on it’, ‘must be announced by steve jobs’, ‘must work exactly like a certain apple product’, disregarding any functionality or reason — not something that’s worth working with) Sep 15 23:04
AVRS2 In that case, it was “must work like a certain apple product without checking a box”. Sep 15 23:06
MinceR yes, that’s more accurate Sep 15 23:06
MinceR also, it shouldn’t have any checkboxes whatsoever Sep 15 23:06
AVRS2 I won’t comment on the buttons being good or bad though; never used them (at least don’t remember from the day I might have). Sep 15 23:07
AVRS2 [in those sizes] Sep 15 23:08
AVRS2 AFAIK, Asa Dotzler is more marketing (SpreadFirefox? not sure) than Mozilla. Sep 15 23:11
AVRS2 Some said they were using Mac OS X because MoCo bought MacBooks en masse (sp?)… Sep 15 23:13
AVRS2 And then there is some expensive proprietary testing suite for Mac… Sep 15 23:14
schestowitz AVRS2: yes, he’s marketing, sort of. Sep 15 23:14
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AVRS2 Unfortunately I tend to forget to reply to e-mails in threads about licensing I start sometimes… which may be why http://www.tiraecol.net/modules/comic/ is still under an invalid license :( although it would be almost certainly non-free anyway. Sep 15 23:17
MinceR i wonder why would mozilla want to pander to apple fanboys Sep 15 23:20
MinceR they won’t use anything but safari Sep 15 23:21
AVRS2 (cc) and then there are “the Creative Commons license” mentions like in http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=arti… Sep 15 23:25
AVRS2 And apparently I haven’t fixed the Ecol mention in a Wikipedia list… done now Sep 15 23:25
AVRS2 gn Sep 15 23:28
MinceR o/ Sep 15 23:28
twitter Pander?  I’d think the Apple branch of Mozilla is community maintained by Mac users. Sep 16 01:19
schestowitz Mozilla developers are Mac users. Sep 16 01:20
twitter So, how many of those bug reports are M$ Munchkins looking to stink the place up? Sep 16 01:20
twitter Do the Mozilla developers really run OSX?  I’ve seen people using GCC and friends on OSX.  It was not nearly as easy as apt-getting source. Sep 16 01:22
schestowitz A Microsoft Munchkin sort of got kicked by the ISP/gateway for libeling me today. Sep 16 01:23
schestowitz Yes, Mozilla devs use OS X. Many of them do. Some might multi-boot and they use CentOS on the servers. Sep 16 01:24
twitter The ISP news is good and bad.  It’s nice they want to help but bad they would terminate someone’s service like that. Sep 16 01:25
schestowitz Well, it wasn’t the ISP really. Not yet anyway. Sep 16 01:26
schestowitz Some people sent complaints to the news service from which the Munchkin had posted. Failing that, ISPs can probably be reached. If you saw the nature of the posts, you’d understand. Sep 16 01:27
twitter It would be nicer if they helped you trace the comments back, so you can sue the person who made them. Sep 16 01:28
schestowitz Yes, that too. Sep 16 01:28
schestowitz I think I know the address already. If I pursued it, I could probably put him in jail. He attacked other people in the past under hundreds of nym. It’s like a Barkto incident. Sep 16 01:29
twitter You should pursue it, but you will probably find a zombie at the other end of the line. Sep 16 01:30
schestowitz Yes, they use zombies. Sep 16 01:30
schestowitz http://groups.google.com/group/com… Sep 16 01:31
twitter It is a shame that only the bad guys can really keep their anonymity. Sep 16 01:31
schestowitz http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2… Sep 16 01:32
schestowitz PJ keeps evidence on MOG, I think. Sep 16 01:33
schestowitz Since we have court evidence showing MOG planting stories for Microsoft, the spying and intimidation could have not just her sued by Microsoft too. Sep 16 01:33
schestowitz I’d love to see PJ taking a break from GL and doing a massive lawsuits against Microsoft and the Shill Mill. It could expose the whole operation, have it blast in the media, and lead to many more lawsuits from those who got injured. Sep 16 01:37
twitter That would be a great service.  I hope she’s got lawyers working on it. Sep 16 01:38
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schestowitz They’re hiring < http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2008/Sep-15.html >. But wait. Get your _Microsoft_ skills ready. What is this, a joke? Sep 16 08:05
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schestowitz Former Microsoft employee FUDs Apple under a ‘Mozilla’ hat: Mono team, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/15/… Sep 16 08:18
schestowitz “She held out Microsoft, her former employer, as an example.” Sep 16 08:19
schestowitz “”We get to hear from Microsoft about the work they put into it and all the people they engaged to do consulting work and their secure development lifecycle.” So Mozilla nets Microsoft employees for Microsoft love? Sep 16 08:20
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schestowitz Funny that. SJVN links to us under the statement  “I feel the same way about Novell. While I don’t see Novell, as some do, as being Microsoft’s lapdog…” ( here: http://blogs.computerworld.com/is… ) Sep 16 08:46
schestowitz Ha!! This one was predictable. ‘EnterpriseBuntu’: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?co…   (and Shuttleworth denied that such a thing would exist, IIRC). Sep 16 08:55
schestowitz I brought it up here < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/07/ubuntu… > and then Shuttleworth replied. So he’s paying Microsoft indirectly. Sep 16 08:57
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MinceR 093258 <@schestowitz> Former Microsoft employee FUDs Apple under a ‘Mozilla’ hat: Mono team, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/15… Sep 16 09:14
MinceR Pot. Kettle. Black. ;) Sep 16 09:14
MinceR he says apple is closed about security Sep 16 09:14
MinceR as if m$ wasn’t :> Sep 16 09:14
MinceR s/he/she/ Sep 16 09:14
schestowitz It’s a she Sep 16 09:14
MinceR s/she/it/ ;) Sep 16 09:15
schestowitz pronounced how? Sep 16 09:15
MinceR it was just a correction Sep 16 09:15
schestowitz Yeah, I thought about s/h/it. Sep 16 09:16
schestowitz Old joke from USENET Sep 16 09:16
schestowitz So they now have Microsoft ‘admirers’ or connections inside Mozilla. That said, she criticised Microsoft before, but _ONLY BECAUSE MICROSOFT FUDDED MOZILLA_. Sep 16 09:17
schestowitz Here: http://blog.mozilla.com/security/2007/11/30/cri… Sep 16 09:17
schestowitz This one id a holy moly: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3… ( HP to cut 24,600 jobs worldwide with EDS acquisition ) Sep 16 09:30
MinceR oh. Sep 16 09:52
schestowitz http://www.macworld.com/article/135541/2008/09/… Sep 16 09:53
MinceR i didn’t get to use usenet for a long while (didn’t know any news servers) Sep 16 09:53
MinceR and by the time i could find some, it was already drowned in spam Sep 16 09:53
schestowitz They try to kill USENET Sep 16 09:53
MinceR i know, but i think it was mostly spam before they started killing it Sep 16 09:54
schestowitz Not everywhere. Sep 16 09:54
schestowitz Interesting: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?lt… Sep 16 10:14
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Eruaran hello Sep 16 13:01
schestowitz Hi there. Got any news from Australia? Sep 16 13:01
Eruaran Not today Sep 16 13:01
schestowitz :-( Sep 16 13:01
schestowitz Just kidding. Sep 16 13:01
Eruaran I heard Adobe is realeasing new stuff Sep 16 13:02
schestowitz Your previous stories reached many people’s attention (thousands) Sep 16 13:02
Eruaran really ? Sep 16 13:02
schestowitz Yes, the posts are being read. Sep 16 13:02
Eruaran Well I hope people are listening Sep 16 13:03
AVRS2 That micronation which joined the anti-OOXML petition… is a forum Sep 16 13:03
AVRS2 Not sure how many people that is, enWikipedia says 20. Sep 16 13:04
schestowitz What’s the URL? Sep 16 13:05
schestowitz Microsoft did some AstroTurf (fake grassroots) for OOXML back in 2007. Sep 16 13:06
AVRS2 http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/14/c… Sep 16 13:06
AVRS2 The Dominion of British West Florida Sep 16 13:06
AVRS2 Its site says to become a citizen (or something) you have to e-mail them or something, or just register at the forum. Sep 16 13:07
schestowitz A forum? Sep 16 13:13
schestowitz Is there a Wikipedia entry about it? Sep 16 13:13
AVRS2 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Do… Sep 16 13:13
Eruaran bbl Sep 16 13:13
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AVRS2 It is a nation, but so small that it is currently a website. Sep 16 13:13
schestowitz If it takes just 20 people, then we could probably create a “BN IRC channel” nation and protest as a nation. :-) Sep 16 13:13
AVRS2 Its FAQ has a question “Is it a role-playing game?” Sep 16 13:14
schestowitz Is the site has downtime, what does it mean for the nation? Sep 16 13:14
AVRS2 hmm Sep 16 13:15
schestowitz This is bizarre. http://www.dbwf.net/ Sep 16 13:15
AVRS2 Request Citizenship: Sep 16 13:15
schestowitz So if they take a bus ride somewhere, they abandon a nation. And shall there be a terrible accident, a country can cease to exist. Sep 16 13:16
AVRS2 mailto:baronvonservers@yahoo.com?cc=bo.register @comcast.net&amp;Subject=Application for Citizenship (online) &amp;body=I would like to be a Citizen of British West Florida.  Please add me to your distribution list, and consider me for Appointment to Office. Sep 16 13:16
AVRS2 Nah, the nation uses West Florida territory. Sep 16 13:16
schestowitz I bet it would be easy for Microsoft to ‘stuff’ their ballot on OOXML. Sep 16 13:16
AVRS2 It wants to take the territory as independant by doing good to its citizens. Sep 16 13:17
AVRS2 Crap, once having learnt to misspell “independent”, I cannot unlearn back… Sep 16 13:18
schestowitz Well, that means that Bush can’t force them to be recruited for Iraq. Sounds like a deal. Sep 16 13:18
schestowitz It’s a common typo. Sep 16 13:18
AVRS2 IIRC, there is some other word which has “-ant”, so I thought “independent” was an error. Sep 16 13:18
kentma dependent and dependant have different meanings, hence the confusion. Sep 16 13:19
AVRS2 Actually either I’ve read the site poorly, or it is unclear whether they want complete independency or be a part of UK. Sep 16 13:19
kentma Dependent is frequently spelt as dependant, particularly by yanks… Sep 16 13:20
AVRS2 Note: The forms dependant, dependance, dependancy are from the French; the forms dependent, etc., are from the Latin. Some authorities give preference to the form dependant when the word is a noun, thus distinguishing it from the adjective, usually written dependent.” Sep 16 13:21
AVRS2 (gcide) Sep 16 13:21
kentma standard english spelling is to respect the and and ent;  just like respecting ice and ise for noun & verb.  Both of these are frequently mispelt by yanks. Sep 16 13:22
kentma and non-yanks, but most often yanks. Sep 16 13:22
kentma practice, for example, is almost always spelt as practise by yanks. Sep 16 13:22
kentma and licence is almost always spelt as license. Sep 16 13:23
kentma also noun & verb. Sep 16 13:23
schestowitz I find myself disoriented by this. Sep 16 13:23
schestowitz It’s better to eliminate the mistake. Sep 16 13:23
kentma french, is of course, all derived from latin… Sep 16 13:23
schestowitz Not to accept both. Sep 16 13:23
kentma spanish will usually break dependent(e) into dependiente, adding an ‘i’ before the ‘e’. Sep 16 13:24
kentma Italian just does ente. Sep 16 13:24
kentma schestowitz: I agree.  Incorrect spellings cause all kinds of havoc with short sentences and phrases… Sep 16 13:25
kentma Driving license = verb – permission to drive Sep 16 13:25
schestowitz But names of places change this. Sep 16 13:25
kentma Driving licence = noun – a bit of paper :-) Sep 16 13:25
schestowitz Names of places set rock-solid precedence. Bal Harbor for example. Sep 16 13:26
kentma Place names are even more confusing, because they often have ancient forms, however, they can typically be recognised by capitalisation, which helps them stand out from the crowd. Sep 16 13:26
AVRS2 In Russian, Chinese and Korean names transliterated or transcribed (not sure which) as Huy are almost always euphemized. Sep 16 13:28
AVRS2 I’ve found 6 variants for Cho Seung-Hui Sep 16 13:29
MinceR lol Sep 16 13:29
kentma AVRS2: I’ve seen many of these transliterated, and then the sound of languages changes over time, and a re-transliteration is required Sep 16 13:29
kentma The best known is peking and beijing :-) Sep 16 13:29
MinceR why can’t they just call them Dick? :> Sep 16 13:29
kentma Tonal languages are hard to do anyway… Mandarin has 4 sounds (not too bad…), Cantonese has *7* sounds :-( Sep 16 13:30
kentma MinceR: :-) Sep 16 13:30
AVRS2 Cho Chun Hoy, Cho Sen Hu, Cho Syn Hi, Cho Syn-hi, Chho Syn Hyy, Cho Chen-Hui (ne Huy) Sep 16 13:30
kentma AVRS2: arggh! Sep 16 13:30
AVRS2 *not Huy; Hy-ee Sep 16 13:30
AVRS2 cannot transcribe w/o IPA which I don’t remember anyway Sep 16 13:30
kentma you need to be a linguist to have IPA on tap, I suspect… Sep 16 13:31
kentma Is Korean tonal?  I suppose it might be Sep 16 13:31
AVRS2 Well, it’s more useful to use the IPA characters you know and others might know, than Cyrillics if the others don’t. Sep 16 13:32
AVRS2 *don’t know them Sep 16 13:32
AVRS2 But vowels in IPA are difficult, and they say IPA vowels doesn’t work well for Russian. Sep 16 13:32
AVRS2 *don’t Sep 16 13:32
MinceR i know cyrillics but little IPA Sep 16 13:33
kentma The only cyrillics I know are the ones which are essentially like latin or greek… which isn’t many :-) Sep 16 13:33
AVRS2 Cho Seung-Hui; Чо Чун Хой; Чо Сен Ху; Чо Сын Хи; Чо Сын-хи; Чхо Сын Хый; Чо Чен-Хуи Sep 16 13:33
AVRS2 kentma: Бб is b, Вв is v in Russian Sep 16 13:34
kentma AVRS2: yes, I recall.  Also, ‘v’ is a ‘b’ in Spanish, by an interesting coincidence. Sep 16 13:34
*AVRS2 goes to seek Spanish pronunciation stuff Sep 16 13:35
AVRS2 ; Anki’s short tutorial is not good to use w/o knowing that :] Sep 16 13:35
AVRS2 KVirc wtf Sep 16 13:36
kentma AVRS2: it’s quite interesting.  There are two flavours, too – one where ‘c’ is a ‘th’ and the other where ‘c’ is a ‘ss’ Sep 16 13:36
AVRS2 not enough to switch back to XChat, but those script-related features in KVirc are annoying. I hope they are actually bugs Sep 16 13:36
kentma I dunno… sorry.  I’m using pidgin here Sep 16 13:36
AVRS2 My problems with KVirc: 1. multi-line input is problematic; if I paste something into the single line, the multiline input opens and gets everything but the first line, which stays in the single-line input. Sep 16 13:37
kentma talking about input – pidgin won’t let me re-size the text input window, which is annoying. Sep 16 13:38
AVRS2 2. it seems impossible to start a message with “/”. “//” gives “//”. Sep 16 13:38
kentma \/ Sep 16 13:38
kentma /// Sep 16 13:38
kentma // Sep 16 13:38
AVRS2 / test Sep 16 13:38
kentma //testing Sep 16 13:38
AVRS2 cool, thanks :) Sep 16 13:38
AVRS2 Escaping with “\” works. Sep 16 13:38
kentma aah :-) Sep 16 13:38
kentma see you chaps later. Sep 16 13:41
AVRS2 see you Sep 16 13:41
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MinceR AVRS2: i’m sure (1) is a bug, but you may want to check if it’s known/reported. Sep 16 13:51
MinceR (or if it’s fixed in the developer version already) Sep 16 13:51
MinceR as for the starting message with / thing: /say /… works in multiple clients, in case you don’t know how the current client does it. Sep 16 13:52
MinceR (though in kvirc /say probably has the sideeffect of parsing things like ; in the message) Sep 16 13:53
AVRS2 test Sep 16 13:53
AVRS2 /test Sep 16 13:54
AVRS2 yep Sep 16 13:54
AVRS2 In XChat, I used “//” Sep 16 13:54
MinceR irssi has “/ “ Sep 16 13:54
schestowitz / test Sep 16 13:54
AVRS2 IIRC, KVirc’s bugs were in KDE? Sep 16 13:55
AVRS2 https://bugs.kde.org/ that is Sep 16 13:55
schestowitz I wish Kate had a built in in-line spellchecker  KNode has that. Sep 16 13:56
AVRS2 hm, no, I’m confusing it with something Sep 16 13:56
MinceR afaik kvirc is separate from kde Sep 16 13:57
MinceR it can be compiled without kdelibs if you want to Sep 16 13:57
AVRS2 yes; it also seems kinda poorly integrated Sep 16 13:57
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MinceR even then i prefer it to other GUI clients Sep 16 13:57
AVRS2 Though Amarok also is, a little. Sep 16 13:57
MinceR especially to konversation, which includes an option for public away Sep 16 13:58
MinceR public away must be killed with fire. Sep 16 13:58
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AVRS2 Is that enabling “away” because of inactivity? Sep 16 13:59
*schestowitz looks for fire blanket. Sep 16 13:59
MinceR it’s announcing changes in away status on every channel as a message Sep 16 14:04
schestowitz Yes, that’s the issue. Sep 16 14:05
schestowitz I tried it for one minute. You then shouted :-) (so did someone in #mandriva, but more politely) Sep 16 14:05
MinceR [H]omer still does it from time to time :( Sep 16 14:06
MinceR the worst is when i share multiple channels with the one using public away Sep 16 14:06
MinceR so i get false activity on multiple channels Sep 16 14:06
AVRS2 oh Sep 16 14:07
schestowitz [H]omer: please take note. Sep 16 14:07
AVRS2 hmm looks like I’ve forgotten the multiline problem essence: it is not exactly the act of pasting that causes it, but that I switch to the multiline mode while having something in the first line. Sep 16 14:12
AVRS2 Then the content of the singleline editor doesn’t get moved or posted… Sep 16 14:13
schestowitz Other than Xchat I’ve only ever used mirc, but that was 12 years ago. Sep 16 14:14
AVRS2 XChat has at least one major issue: long messages are split at 512 or so bytes, so Cyrillic text can be split in a middle of character, and become totally unreadable. Sep 16 14:15
AVRS2 Not sure what KVirc does; someone told me they had one of my long messages just cut off. Sep 16 14:16
AVRS2 But https://svn.kvirc.de/kvirc/ticket/147 says there is such bug in KVirc! going to be fixed by 4.0 Sep 16 14:17
AVRS2 Anyway, I’ve had other issues with XChat, like copying working really bad. Sep 16 14:18
AVRS2 And when I upgraded to 2.8.2, it had channel and user lists in one column and not side by side. Sep 16 14:19
schestowitz I get some chopped-off message on rare occasions. I have no real basis for comparison though. Sep 16 14:19
AVRS2 With 2.8.4, the Debian build had been highlighting almost every message, apparently because the highlighted nickname list format has changed (how?). Sep 16 14:20
AVRS2 or it was 2.8.6 Sep 16 14:20
schestowitz I’m probably locked in to this app now. :-| Sep 16 14:22
AVRS2 I feel locked in to Firefox since I’ve upgraded to 3.0* trunk. Sep 16 14:25
AVRS2 And not just to Firefox, but to the version I am using. Sep 16 14:25
schestowitz Plugins are a pain. Some go deprecated. Sep 16 14:27
AVRS2 No extension here has gone deprecated… but they have memory leaks and take a lot of RAM all the time. Sep 16 14:28
AVRS2 Though some become incompatible. Sep 16 14:28
schestowitz The leaks have not been a pain since I upgraded to a stronger dual-core box. Sep 16 14:28
schestowitz Thunderbird can be a pig too if you strap lots of stuff onto it. Sep 16 14:29
AVRS2 I’ve tried using Iceweasel recently, and its xulrunner-core or something was hanging often… Sep 16 14:29
AVRS2 Unfortunately, Html Validator (Tidy-based) has become incompatible here. Sep 16 14:32
AVRS2 Two things possible: edit it, or disable compatibility check. Sep 16 14:32
AVRS2 But there are newer compatible versions… windows-only Sep 16 14:33
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AVRS2 gn Sep 16 23:50
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mahadeva_ somebody can helpme i have a novell 3.12 and the partition tables was broken and use test disk for recover the dos particion after that the netware partition desapear and i cant recuper and up my server please helpme Sep 17 03:22
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kentma mornin’ Sep 17 07:46
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ZiggyFish Did anyone actually listen to the Linux Action Show this week? Sep 17 10:10
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macabe BN has ad for ms office home & student 2k7 on top of page. Is there any way to at least filter ms ads? Sep 17 12:59
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schestowitz Hey, friends. I’m back. Have I missed anything? Sep 17 17:27
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schestowitz http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&2008/09/1… Sep 17 18:25
schestowitz I know it’s off topic < http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&200… >, but I’ve been talking about this for hours at the gym this week. It affects a lot of people and will affect the way people perceive Free software. No more $2999 Apple Macs.. Sep 17 18:28
schestowitz macabe: Shane is creating a new E-mail account (he has none at the moment) and I’ll convince him to just take the ads off (I’ve been wanting to do this for almost 2 years, but it’s him who pays the hosting bills). The ads comes from all sorts of directions, so if you block microsoft.com, then the ads still come pointing to some Microsoft partner (another domain). Sep 17 18:30
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ReverseGTR so any new news on Microsoft, because I found out something on Google: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquire… Sep 17 18:51
schestowitz http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2… : “MS won’t be a Linux friend until Windows is dead. ” It’s interesting what M[icrosoft]aritch said eariler:  http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.php… ( VMware chief says the OS is history ). Midori or SUSE? Sep 17 18:51
schestowitz ReverseGTR: Charlie is not very reliable, but he recently dug up dirt on NVidia. Sep 17 18:52
ReverseGTR problem with virtual machines like VMware is they still need to virtualize all aspects of the API, which in tern hinders 3D and other hardware performance Sep 17 18:53
ReverseGTR so whats the dirt on Nvidiot? Sep 17 18:54
schestowitz Let me dig. Sep 17 18:54
schestowitz http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2… (part of a series… scroll down to links) Sep 17 18:55
ReverseGTR which one. how they got Intel to include NV200 PCIe accelerator into X58 motherboards so they all work with SLI? Sep 17 18:57
ReverseGTR oh, I see they want Intel to do that while the vendors don’t Sep 17 18:58
schestowitz I have NVidia+AMD on this box. I worry that I’m affected by the defects. Sep 17 18:59
schestowitz The folks at Phoronix don’t trust Charlie though. I tend to trust them on that one because I inquired. Sep 17 19:00
ReverseGTR which graphics card are you using? Sep 17 19:00
ReverseGTR From what I recall it affects notebooks more since they already run at a high thermal envelope Sep 17 19:03
ReverseGTR it also seems to be affecting the Geforce 7 series and 8 more so then 9 Sep 17 19:04
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schestowitz ReverseGTR: I think they are being sued by shareholder now for downplaying the severity (range of products affected). Sep 17 19:05
schestowitz *shareholder (typo).   Speaking of which, the funny thing is that my dad used to be a Novell investor when I was younger. He also did _a lot_ of business with Samsung, which BN boycotts as well. Sep 17 19:05
ReverseGTR schestowitz: yes, they are since before they were stating it only affected the 7 series and mobile 8 series GPU. But it is now discovered that 8 as well as some mobile 9s are also affected Sep 17 19:06
schestowitz They played safe art first , placing blame on what they already know for sure. I wonder how much inside-trading was to be spotted there. Reminds me of Microsoft and that criminal Robbie bach. Sep 17 19:08
ReverseGTR the fact is the problem is with there being not enough thermal paste as well as chips that are not speced to withstand fluctuating temperatures over time. So we will not know if even the latest Nvidia graphics cards and GPUs are affected until a few years down the line Sep 17 19:08
schestowitz That’s what stress testing is for. Watch what happened with XBox 360. I wrote about it the other day. Sep 17 19:09
schestowitz cyberphoenix liked it: http://www.mixx.com/stories/_… Sep 17 19:10
ReverseGTR But it also has to be in part that they have allot of parts on those graphics cards to test out. And since they don’t own any fabrication plants they feel they can save capital and rely on their vendors to. I knew that motto they use to have for “fitting the most semiconductors on one chip” would come back to haunt them. :P Sep 17 19:10
ReverseGTR ATi/AMD are in a better position to do quality testing since they own quite a few fab factories. They also don’t try to make the most sophisticated graphics cards and rather take an approach to integrating features and even making them driver base if possible. Sep 17 19:12
schestowitz The integrated GPU-CPU will come from the big two soon. NVIdia knows this and worries. Sep 17 19:15
schestowitz I hope to get around to Intel’s abuses prior to 2000 some time in the future. The folks at Groklaw had some discussion about Intel’s past some time when we all ranted about their OLPC sabotage. Sep 17 19:16
schestowitz http://www.olpcnews.com/countries/per… “My feeling is also that each time there is a confusion there is a risk to lose an OLPC volunteer because each announcement on Windows hurt Sugar volunteers. And each volunteer is very important to give support and help to the coming new XO users.” Sep 17 19:16
ReverseGTR schestowitz: True but there will always be a place for discrete graphics among folks who desire more performance then the norm. Now don’t get me wrong, high and mid-end Nvidia cards rule performance wise. But having a fabless company that designs graphic chipsets that rely mainly on hardware implemented features may cause reliability issues without them interrogating vendors. Sep 17 19:16
schestowitz NASA and Hollywood love NVIDIA. They just need lots of polygons. Reliability is less of an issue. It’s like a flea market. Sep 17 19:18
ReverseGTR schestowitz: Sugar is a very nice GUI with nice apps and features but it is unlike any other GUI which will probably made it hard for them to gain developers regardless of Windows. OLPC could have opted for the user to be able to select between Sugar and KDE/XFCE rather then bending over for M$. Sep 17 19:20
schestowitz Yes, but Nick was a friend of Bill. Sep 17 19:20
schestowitz Back in 2007 (early, IIRC) he gave credit to Bill and he lost my trust. Sep 17 19:21
schestowitz MS slogs it to discourages volunteers… for about 2 years now. All sort of vapourware announcement for over a year. Sep 17 19:21
ReverseGTR schestowitz: have they even re-implemented the coloress screen feature on OLPC in Sugar on Windows? Sep 17 19:22
schestowitz No Sep 17 19:22
schestowitz It’s not about making it a success. Sep 17 19:23
ReverseGTR schestowitz: I admit though I did read up on how most governments in countries wanted a cheap PC with a Windows looking interface. Sep 17 19:23
ReverseGTR but those were the advisors of the governments Sep 17 19:23
schestowitz Mission is to: 1) tell the world that Linux on laptops suxxx [sic]; 2) avoid children getting exposed to ‘something else’ (Fedora in Peru is one of the largest desktop GNU/Linux deployments) Sep 17 19:24
ReverseGTR well then, I am sure Nick and Bill already had a toast to their sucess Sep 17 19:25
schestowitz I published an article about it: http://www.olpcnews.com/countries/peru… Sep 17 19:25
schestowitz oops. http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/os… Sep 17 19:25
ReverseGTR schestowitz: sometimes I feel that the only real way to throw a wrench into M$’s domination globally is if a certain country such as Iran made a computer and an OS specialized for the Islamic world Sep 17 19:26
schestowitz See my article. People recommend what they know. Better is worse if it’s different (Linus) Sep 17 19:27
ReverseGTR no joke, since Arabic, Farsi and Malaysian syntax is still lacking on Windows or on any OS in the API level :P Sep 17 19:27
schestowitz That already happens in many countries: Brazil (Debian), Uzbekistan, Kerala… Sep 17 19:27
ReverseGTR schstowitz: its needs to happen in more Sep 17 19:30
schestowitz ReverseGTR: let me find something new. Sep 17 19:31
schestowitz Got it. it’s Glyn Moody who drew my attention to it: http://commonspace.wordpress.com/2008/09/16… Sep 17 19:31
schestowitz “Noy’s built up a team inside NiDA to localize open source desktop apps into Khmer (a language too small to be interesting to Microsoft), build up open source development skills amongst young people (still early days on this one) and train end users on Linux, Open Office and Firefox (20,000 people and counting). He’s also the major champion behind Khmer OS, a localized OpenSuse distribution.” Sep 17 19:31
ReverseGTR schestowitz: thats one great way of doing another is to appeal to people politically. If a distro of Linux was created not only to read Arabic fonts but to use it on the terminal level I am sure most of the Middle East and North Africa would switch Sep 17 19:33
schestowitz WFT: watch this: http://blogs.computerworld.com/i_want_a_real_linux_a… Sep 17 19:33
schestowitz Does Google expect volunteers to do its own work??? I can’t figure out the association/affiliation of the commenter. At least Google is doing mirrors’ repos now. Can’t complain *too* much. Sep 17 19:34
schestowitz I quite like Parsix: http://www.parsix.org/html/index.php (there are some nice stories around it, once you get past the US daemonisation of Iranians). Sep 17 19:35
ReverseGTR schestowitz: well like someone else told me, Google only uses open source where they see fit as well as using it to divert attention from their marketshare. Like how they refuse to accept the Affero GPL because it doesn’t suite their business needs. Sep 17 19:36
schestowitz Yes, I know. Source = PR. Sep 17 19:36
ReverseGTR schestowitz: does Parsix enable users to utilize the terminal in Persian? Sep 17 19:38
schestowitz Sergey and Larry didn’t give any source code until /when/? The hiring of DiBona? Even /he/ is embarrassed by it. See the comments here: http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2008/05/go… Sep 17 19:38
schestowitz I told Moody about it. He also wrote http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/in… Sep 17 19:38
schestowitz ReverseGTR: yes, it’s Ubuntu-based and very similar (dark theme). I like the fact that they emphasise GNU and I have some photos from their schools. They really want to help the kids. Sep 17 19:39
ReverseGTR schestowitz: thats awesome, hopefully the Iranian government will put their money where their mouth is instead of in nuclear arms to look for more peaceful ways to increase their independence from foreign and become a nation to be reckoned with Sep 17 19:41
ReverseGTR foreign interests I meant Sep 17 19:42
ReverseGTR They already outlawed stoning as punishment so they are progressing Sep 17 19:42
ReverseGTR http://humanrightlaw.blogspot.com/2008/08/iran… Sep 17 19:44
schestowitz ReverseGTR: let me look up my refs about Iran. They had fundings withawn. Sep 17 19:44
schestowitz *withdrawn Sep 17 19:44
schestowitz The following is a decent accumulation but I have more. Read in sequence: Mobile Linux company, Azingo (News – Alert), has announced that it’s all set to demonstrate its new Web 2.0 applications running on Azingo Mobile, its open mobile Linux platform. Sep 17 19:45
schestowitz Oops. Wrong paste again.The following is a decent accumulation: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advoc… Sep 17 19:45
ReverseGTR schestowitz: I have not read anything in that link about funding being cut, thank g0d Sep 17 19:46
schestowitz ReverseGTR: “if you treat them like criminals, criminals they will become.” I am very concerned about the US attitude towards some nations, to whom they give no opportunity. Sep 17 19:47
schestowitz ReverseGTR: wait then. I didn’t check the links Sep 17 19:47
schestowitz It’s likely that I read it but didn’t document it because it’s negative advocacy. Let me use teh Google [Dubya accent /] Sep 17 19:48
schestowitz I give up. It hard to find old new based on statements you vaguely recall. It wasn’t a big headliner at the time. Sep 17 19:50
ReverseGTR schestowitz: nothing Iranian if its not about weapons and Islamic fanaticism is Sep 17 19:51
schestowitz That’s all I find by search teH Googlar Sep 17 19:51
schestowitz Unless one searches in Arabic, I suppose. I studies Arabic for 2 or 3 years. :-) Sep 17 19:52
schestowitz *studied Sep 17 19:52
ReverseGTR schestowitz: terrorist! Sep 17 19:53
*ReverseGTR calls Homeland Security Sep 17 19:53
schestowitz *LOL* No, no. I was pretty good. I got like 85% or 90% Sep 17 19:53
ReverseGTR Then you must be the leader of a terror cell or mastermind of some sort of terrorist plot that has, or will happen Sep 17 19:54
schestowitz I notice that Dellubuntu have already decided that everyone ‘wants’ to buy MSFTware: http://blog.canonical.com/?p=37 Sep 17 19:54
ReverseGTR lol jk Sep 17 19:54
ReverseGTR you sure thats the right link? The article is about codecs and DVD playback on Ubuntu Sep 17 19:55
schestowitz Arabic is the most spoken language, IIRC (most people, not countries). We would be is terrible trouble if about 2 billion people on this planet were malicious-minded zealots. Apparently, that’s not the case. Sep 17 19:55
ReverseGTR schestowitz: and imagine only 12 million people aka the Jews controll it. It as in the world Sep 17 19:56
schestowitz ReverseGTR: yes, but they bundle it with all Dell boxes, so you pay for rubbish you can get for free and cannot ope out. Sep 17 19:56
schestowitz It’s easy to blame groups, not individuals. Sep 17 19:56
schestowitz The “Them” used to be the Soviets. Sep 17 19:56
ReverseGTR schestowitz: and before that zee Germans Sep 17 19:57
schestowitz Yes. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFx… (it talks about the Soviets too) Sep 17 19:58
ReverseGTR schestowitz: anyway about Dell bundling M$ tarballs into their Ubuntu based PCs. They already have an agreement that covers them purchasing M$ software so in actuality it should not be costing them much more. Sep 17 19:59
schestowitz Well, they also joined the MS/Novell deal just days before ‘patent terrorism. Sep 17 20:00
schestowitz Please read this very short and recent item: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/2… Sep 17 20:01
ReverseGTR schestowitz: yea, I am definitely never buying a Dell PC for some time Sep 17 20:07
schestowitz Someone told me about Shuttlewortth in advance, but I had to keep it private. He spoke to them (I think directly) about codecs. So did Red Hat, but they backed off. Sep 17 20:08
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ReverseGTR schestowitz: alright I g2g now, but before I do I want to send you your condolences for your recent accident and hope you get well soon ;) http://www.winvistaclub.com/forum/windows-vista-… Sep 17 20:23
schestowitz *LOL* the libel. Sep 17 20:24
ReverseGTR btw, I think whoever posted that needs to call or logon to a self-help forum Sep 17 20:24
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mib_dnipn3 as well as askhimself why he draws attention to it .. :) Sep 17 20:28
schestowitz It’s Gary M Stewart who did this. It has the opposite effect though. Although my family notices these posts sometimes, it’s too ridiculous to be believable. They are some more believable sorts of libels, such as claims that I launch DDOS attacks. Groklaw was accused of the same thing. Sep 17 20:30
mib_dnipn3 I wouldn’t even give it the dignity of a response .. Sep 17 20:33
schestowitz Some say it’s better to respond and eliminate the big lie, otherwise, if repeated frequently enough, it becomes a perceived truth. Sep 17 20:35
mib_dnipn3 plain e-Mail hacked .. Sep 17 20:37
mib_dnipn3 http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/… Sep 17 20:37
mib_dnipn3 Palin …. Sep 17 20:38
schestowitz http://antitrust.slated.org/media-… Sep 17 20:39
mib_dnipn3 Anonymous, that’s the Scientology grievers .. must be some kind of false flag operation ? Sep 17 20:40
mib_dnipn3 antitrust ? Sep 17 20:42
schestowitz Microsoft seems to be hooking up with a shop that sells junk to the masses. Good marriage there: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526_3-10041087-27.html?tag… Sep 17 20:43
MinceR anonymous isn’t just a scientology griever Sep 17 20:43
MinceR lurk moar ;) Sep 17 20:43
schestowitz mib_dnipn3: antitrust is the subdomain of the Iowa exhibits. Sep 17 20:44
mib_dnipn3 Is there any proof ‘anonymous’ hacked the Palin account ? Sep 17 20:44
schestowitz I used it a lot: http://antitrust.slated.org/ Sep 17 20:44
mib_dnipn3 mib_dnipn3: = Doug .. forgot the name :] Sep 17 20:48
schestowitz The open source brand is being heavily overused, abused and misused by the spooks. Here is the latest: http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/09/download-hayden.html (transparency? CIA? ./melaughs) Sep 17 21:05
mib_dnipn3 What has source code got to do with intelligence ? Sep 17 21:09
schestowitz Nothing. They share some info and call it ‘open source; Sep 17 21:10
mib_dnipn3 Like using words like synergy .. makes it sound kool :) Sep 17 21:11
schestowitz There are worse examples like “Open Source sex” and “Open Source energy” Sep 17 21:12
cj schestowitz: have you run nmap on cia.gov? Sep 17 21:12
cj they’ve got cvs port open last time I did Sep 17 21:13
schestowitz For text? Sep 17 21:13
cj I don’t know what’s on the repository, I was just surprised to find the port open Sep 17 21:13
schestowitz I had a friend who wrote his thesis with CVS (TeX) Sep 17 21:14
cj CVS as in Concurrent Version System… like svn – 1 Sep 17 21:15
cj LaTeX is pretty common for theses, I hear.  my friend emily wroter hers in LaTeX using emacs. Sep 17 21:16
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XpnKHJAok8 Sep 17 21:16
schestowitz nmap is now illegal in the UK, IIRC> Gordie and B1llie Sep 17 21:17
dent latex is a must if you deal with eqations Sep 17 21:19
dent writing my thesis in any GUIish editor would have made ma crawl the wall Sep 17 21:19
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dent (pardon me for chipping in :) Sep 17 21:20
cj sounds like you’re on topic :) Sep 17 21:20
schestowitz CIA-like incompetence: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive… Sep 17 21:34
trmanco http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/17/… Sep 17 21:35
trmanco what -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/16/… Sep 17 21:36
schestowitz trmanco: I have a big post about it coming. I harvest some sources right now. Sep 17 21:37
trmanco ok Sep 17 21:38
schestowitz The BECTA thing. I don’t want to draw attention to ActiveX+CTRL+ALT+DEL security illusion. Dan Goodin just wrote it to provoke, IMHO. Sep 17 21:39
MinceR dunno if this has been here, but  http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2007/06/… Sep 17 21:39
schestowitz Ina Friedshill wrote about it too, IIRC, so you know where it’s coming from. Sep 17 21:39
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schestowitz http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os… Sep 17 21:41
schestowitz More recent here: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.a… Sep 17 21:41
schestowitz This one if strong: http://www.linux.com/feature/147359 Sep 17 21:44
trmanco http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ostatic/~3/3954356… Sep 17 21:45
schestowitz Oops. This one: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linu… Sep 17 21:45
schestowitz trmanco: VMWare is somewhat of a puppet now, IMHO. Not as much as Xentrix. Sep 17 21:46
MinceR what did vmware do? Sep 17 21:48
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09… Sep 17 21:49
*libervisco_ is now known as libervisco Sep 17 21:51
schestowitz peaking on Schneier on USBs: http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-221589.html Sep 17 21:55
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